# Thinking of a 2nd cat..



## toonces33 (Apr 20, 2009)

My wife and I are considering getting a 2nd cat as a companion for our 2 year old spayed female named Ruby. I guess the main thing I was wondering is if there is something we should be looking for in terms of age or gender so that they would get along well together. For example, should we aim for a kitten or something close in age? 

We aren't particular about breed or anything, and in fact I would have a preference to not get a purebred. A shelter cat would be just fine - another domestic shorthair is kind of what we are aiming for.

I should add that our current cat still has some socialization issues. My wife has hopes that a new cat can help teach this one some of the socialization skills that the current one still lacks, but I don't know if that's a realistic expectation or not. I guess my own thinking is that Ruby is in the house by herself while we are at work and a new cat could be a good companion (esp if we go out of town for the weekend).

WRT the socialization issues, we got Ruby from a sort of a rescue situation, and up until when she was 8 months old she lived on her own in a basement with just one older cat for company and little human interaction. Even now at age 2, she hides when we have company, and she usually doesn't like it much if I try and pet her (she likes my wife a lot better though). She doesn't like it at all if either one of us tries to pick her up. But she will climb into bed with us at night, and when we go upstairs, she runs up ahead of us and sticks her head between the stair rails so she can give us "nose kisses". She likes to be "around us" - meaning that if we are in the living room watching TV, she will come in there too. And I should add that we have never had any elimination issues with Ruby.

My point in bringing this up is that the "LittleBigCat" article discusses procedures that really only work if we could catch Ruby and pick her up without traumatizing her (to swap spaces, for example).


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

Ruby may prefer being an only cat. They do sleep at least 18 hours a day. Ruby sounds a lot like my Cinderella, who was much happier being queen of her castle. She was never really the same with me after I brought Cleo home. Then the twins. 

That said, if you want to try, I would definitely get a younger, smaller cat.


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## Ducman69 (Aug 28, 2010)

I'd go with a 4 month old friendly male.

Big enough to hold his own, but young enough to be adaptable and playful. 

Around these parts the adoption rate is so low, I don't see any harm in just trying it on for size. If it doesn't work after a month or so, at least a cat from a shelter had a chance. 

If they get along, having two cats as buddies is fantastic. Wesley and Buttercup (granted siblings) wear each other out and keep each other warm snuggled up. I am sure that had I not adopted them together that either one alone would be far less energetic, more demanding, and more destructive when I'm at work due to boredom.


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## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

A tough call, based on what you have outlined. My Snowball was not at all well-socialized when i got her, though I didn't know this until I brought other cats into the household. I called her Catmalion, even wrote a thread on it on this Forum. Eight months later, I can tell you she gets along with two of the three other cats I have, tolerates the fourth and vice versa. If you do go ahead, I would get a male and a not too young kitten, meaning opposite sex and smaller than she, and I'd make sure he was fostered and was found to be friendly with other cats.

Here's a quick pros/cons based on my experience:

Pros:

She may become more playful
She may learn to like some new games and toys, from observing the other cat
She may learn to like the new cat and have a true life-long companion

Cons:

It will likely take time--45 days, in my case, for Snowball to like the first cat, five months the second, but only two weeks the third, a four-month old male kitten

She may well "hate" the new cat for awhile, meaning you will have to deal with difficult behavior that you will find depressing and frustrating, since it only changes slowly, sometimes microscopically slowly, over time

Using standard new intro techniques like baby gates are inconvenient and somewhat disruptive to your life and schedule, thus requires strong commitment and willingness to stick with it for a reasonable period

I will tell you, now that I have come out the other end, that Snowball is a happier cat and leads a more interesting life, now that she gets along with two other cats. However, she still spends much of her time alone and prefers it that way, so while she is much better socialized, her nature is still to hang out on her own much of the time, though in the same room.

Each situation is different. I agree with the idea of attempting to do this on a trial basis, though I would say you need to give it a minimum of three months, in fairness to Ruby, since non-socialized behavior would not change overnight or even after a few weeks, necessarily.

Good luck with your decision, whatever you decide.


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

NewRescueDad has given you a very complete list of pros and cons, all of which I agree with, and I can’t add to his list. I also agree that, if you adopt, you’d be best to go with a male who is a fair bit younger (say 4 to 8 months old, or thereabouts). As for your other concerns… 



toonces33 said:


> My point in bringing this up is that the "LittleBigCat" article discusses procedures that really only work if we could catch Ruby and pick her up without traumatizing her (to swap spaces, for example).


You don’t need to catch Ruby and pick her up to swap spaces. If you do adopt another cat, then when it comes to switching places or the like, you can just entice Ruby into the new cat’s room using toys or treats. You might even find that once Ruby is allowed access into the new cat's room, she goes in by herself, out of curiosity. My Muffin also hates to be picked up or handled and I had no problems doing a room exchange as a result. That said, the introduction did take a long time (about 3 months), primarily because Muffs is very skittish.



toonces33 said:


> I should add that our current cat still has some socialization issues. My wife has hopes that a new cat can help teach this one some of the socialization skills that the current one still lacks, but I don't know if that's a realistic expectation or not.


By “socialization” skills, do you mean teach Ruby to be social with you and your wife, i.e., teach her to enjoy being picked up, handled, petted, etc.? If so, I don’t see that as a likely outcome. When I adopted Abby a year ago, Muffs didn’t like to be picked up; she tolerated petting; and she refused to sit on my lap. One year later, that’s still a pretty accurate description of Muffin. That said, Muffin and Abby are now best friends, and Muffs is very affectionate with Abby. She often grooms her, plays with her, and cuddles with her. To me, that was a good outcome.


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## Olivers-Slave (Jul 25, 2010)

I understand what you are wanting to do for your kitty. I did the same for my oliver. He is a very antisocial cat who kind of likes the idea of petting but then once you touch him hes all DONE and leaves. so why would I think that getting a new cat would make him happy?

Well he seemed to wander around the house aimlessly chirping at empty rooms, bored, lethargic, and all around pissy. He, to me, needed a companion. The cat we got we rescued sick, a tiny female cat 2-3 years old. oliver is 1/2. The process to introduce was long for me only because I adopted her sick with a URI. But even without seeing each other he helped her a lot. she would only come out of hiding when he was at the door. 

Now that they have been introduced I can also address your concern of anti social skills. Make sure your second cat has patience. oliver is like...hmm...ever see the big bang theory? with all those nerds? oliver is super nerd and Hana is pretty ms popular. All the social skills. but oliver loves her, and just doesn't seem to know how to act properly. Just follows her around grooming her all the time and kind of laying in front of her all O.O hi!!!!!!!!!!! But she takes it like a champ. She sits there letting him groom her awkwardly (he like doesn't seem to understand her long fur but he sure does try!) and as he follows right on her butt she just acts like its totally normal. Its adorable. 

Not all cats I suppose would get this end result. But its always worth a try. That is what we said about Hana, if it didn't work out at least we got her well and could adopt her out to a good home. Lucky for us I was right and oliver has taken to having a companion quite well. 

So just take it slowly, let them tell you the pace in which they will be happy getting to know each other. I took a month and a half to get Hana better BUT I do think that time was good either way to get them to fully accept each other. Since they have seen each other and have physical contact it has been 3 days. not one hiss, not one cry, lots of chasing and grooming, and puppy love.


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## toonces33 (Apr 20, 2009)

Susan said:


> By “socialization” skills, do you mean teach Ruby to be social with you and your wife, i.e., teach her to enjoy being picked up, handled, petted, etc.?


Part of Ruby's problem is that she is very skittish and cautious about just about everything. A "fraidy-cat" if there ever was one. Sometimes we are sitting on the couch watching TV, Ruby is between us, my wife is petting her, but I move my hand a little bit and she takes off like a rocket. That's the thing we have hopes to change - that we can get her to relax and not run.

Ruby seems to not have any clear idea what her boundaries are, and she is reluctant to test the limits. She doesn't mooch people food (which is probably a good thing), and she has no interest in going outdoors - not even out onto the deck. That's probably a good thing too, I guess. Our old deceased cat was an outdoor cat, so he could keep himself entertained all day long. Maybe I am reading too much into this, but it almost seems sometimes that she doesn't really know how to be a cat.


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

toonces33 said:


> Part of Ruby's problem is that she is very skittish and cautious about just about everything. A "fraidy-cat" if there ever was one. Sometimes we are sitting on the couch watching TV, Ruby is between us, my wife is petting her, but I move my hand a little bit and she takes off like a rocket. That's the thing we have hopes to change - that we can get her to relax and not run.


That’s very descriptive of Muffin. She’s a definite scaredy-cat and spent a lot of time hiding when I first adopted her 16 months ago. Even today, she will often run or back away if I try to pet her, and I have to approach her very slowly. She has come out of her shell a little bit over the past year since I adopted Abby, although it’s hard to say whether or not she would have done so over time, even had I not adopted Abby. 

Knowing that Ruby is skittish, I would add to what I earlier said about the type of cat to adopt. You would be best with another cat who is a little on the shy or quiet side – not another skittish cat, but one that’s not too boisterous or aggressive. As NewRescueDad noted, it would be best to adopt a cat that had been fostered, since the foster would have had the opportunity to get to know the cat’s personality and how he/she gets along with other cats.


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## toonces33 (Apr 20, 2009)

My wife knows someone who works with a cat rescue organization, and we picked out a young 7-month old male that had been fostered since he was 3 weeks of age.

But we get there only to find that he had a sister (a littermate) - who also needed a home, and on the spur of the moment we decided to take both of them to so as to keep them together.

The new kitties (names yet to be picked) seem to be adjusting quite nicely. They are both very calm and affectionate, so we should be in good shape in that department, and they didn't seem all that stressed (perhaps having a littermate helps).

We kept them separate from Ruby for a day or so. Ruby seemed to sense that something was up, but it wasn't clear how much. This morning Ruby sequestered herself under a bed in a guest room, and the new kitties seemed eager to explore outside of the room they were in, so so we decided to let the new kitties out to have the run of the house so they could figure out what is up.

We brought one of the new kitties up to see Ruby, and they basically just sniffed each other and that was about it. No fighting, no hissing. We will have to keep and eye on Ruby to keep her from withdrawing too much.


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## Greenport ferals (Oct 30, 2010)

Sounds really promising so far.
Good for you for keeping the litter-mates together.


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

Hmmm....well I suspect you may find that the brother/sister have each other and Ruby could very well end up being odd man out. It's not necessarily a bad situation, Maggie is the loner in my house, but won't accomplish what you were trying to do to begin with.


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

I agree with Lisa, I adopted the twins and they have each other. Didn't work out as playmates for Cleo at all. Two of them are just too much for her to deal with. And they were tiny, only 10 weeks old, not 7 months.

But Ruby may prove us wrong, good luck!


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## Ducman69 (Aug 28, 2010)

All that matters is that you are happy, and they are apparently getting along swimmingly. And now three kitties are saved and being given a loving home instead of just one! Grats!!!


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## toonces33 (Apr 20, 2009)

marie73 said:


> I agree with Lisa, I adopted the twins and they have each other. Didn't work out as playmates for Cleo at all. Two of them are just too much for her to deal with. And they were tiny, only 10 weeks old, not 7 months.
> 
> But Ruby may prove us wrong, good luck!


In retrospect this is something that we didn't give enough thought to, and we were in a position where we felt like we had to make a snap decision. It wasn't until we got there that we even knew that he had a sister.

I was up there earlier this evening and Ruby was still under the bed (where she spent most of the day). When one of the new kitties came into view, Ruby started to hiss at her. The new kitty was really there because she wanted me to pet her than anything else (meaning that she didn't seem interested in pushing the issue and left Ruby alone).

The new kitties have had the run of the house for the day, so we put them back in their room - shortly after that, Ruby came downstairs, and seems a lot more like her old self. I think we were going to keep the new kitties in their room all night so that Ruby gets her turn with us. We will reintroduce them again tomorrow and hopefully things will go a little better. That's just something we are going to need to keep our eyes on over the next few days..


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

A slow introduction is very important, gives the new cats extra time to bond with you, too. Here's a great site with good instructions:

Little Big Cat

Having said that, my twins' intro lasted about 24 hours (long story). They were accepted okay, but as they got older, it was a bit too much for Cinderella and Cleo. When one would approach, it was okay, but with both of them, too much. 

Three years later, Cleo has chased them recently through this house, but still prefers to keep to herself. Like I mentioned earlier, it could just be a Cleo thing. But, I keep telling myself, they do keep Cleo entertained with their antics.


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

I think you're rushing the process if you left the new kitties to roam the house all day and Ruby spent the day under the bed. You need to step this way back until Ruby gets curious about the newcomers. If the newbies need to spend a week or two in a separate room, so be it. Ruby is the incumbent, it's her territory the intro needs to be done on her terms.


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## thenakedorchid (Sep 15, 2010)

I would definitely suggest looking for "unevenness" in terms of age, size, gender. I think that may make it that much easier for your cat and the new kitty to quickly establish who gets to be the dominant one; preferably the resident cat. I wish I had known that when I adopted my two girls! Sabrina and Sidonie are both 2 year old females of similar size, and their progress in terms of learning to tolerate each other is microscopically paced, as someone else here had mentioned. I think that having a lot in common may not be a very good thing when it comes to introducing cats. Good luck!


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## toonces33 (Apr 20, 2009)

Little bit of follow-up. After about a week of restricted access between Ruby and the newcomers, things settled down, and now they all seem pretty relaxed around each other. The newcomers (being brother and sister) occasionally get into a very minor fight, but these things don't last more than a few seconds and then things settle down again. The first time we saw this happen, Ruby was watching as well and she kind of had this WTF(!?!) look on her face.

They do play a lot - we have cats chasing each other around the house and Ruby joins in the fun from time to time, so she isn't just an observer in all of this. So in this respect, things are working out quite well (and Ruby is now getting more exercise, which she kind of needed, I think).

I am going to have to install another kitty perch in the downstairs window sill as the one we have is only big enough for one cat at a time, and that's one area where there is sometimes a minor bit of contention.


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

It sounds like things are working out very well. Congratulations! You must post some pictures of Ruby and the two little ones when you can. What are the new kittens' names?


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## Luvkitties (Jan 22, 2009)

That's good news! It looks like Ruby has some playmates now! 

We would definitely love to see pictures of your feline family!


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## toonces33 (Apr 20, 2009)

Susan said:


> It sounds like things are working out very well. Congratulations! You must post some pictures of Ruby and the two little ones when you can. What are the new kittens' names?


We settled on "George" and "Gracie" for the names of the young ones. We were thinking of all kinds of names of various couples on TV. Like Ralph/Alice, Ed/Trixie, Mork/Mindy, and bunches of others.

I am keeping a camera around to try and get good pix of them. The flash seems to startle them a little bit, and when I bring the camera out they want to sniff it instead of posing. I guess they will eventually lose interest in the thing, and then it will be easier for me. But getting all 3 at the same time is going to be nearly impossible.

George and Gracie both have light grey hair with a good amount of white coloring. But Gracie also has other coloring suggesting that there might be an orange tabby somewhere or another in the family tree. Gracie has what looks like a white mustache on the front of her face.


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