# Did i take the right approach?? - more litterbox issues



## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

we have recently had some issues at our house (_again..._)

I think it was due to something outside. The same day there was a pee in the form of a spray (he has never sprayed before... only ever puddles) on the mat at the front door, Which i have since wet down and then used natures miracle on. and there was also a poop ON THE COUCH! Same room, in front of the window...

Things were going well with the catnip and feliway.

the *only* thing i can think of is that the feliway had run empty for a couple days and something was outside...

Last night, there was a pee on the same mat, only because i hadnt had a chance to clean it yet (trying to hide it), which was a normal puddle pee (large/good amount, which i cant blame him for, he was just being a cat and smelled himself, luckily i got that blotted up and hidden until i was home alone earlier to truly clean), but then this morning a normal poop on the same couch. i have also since natures miracled the couch on both of those spots. Was the couch again due to his smell still being in the room on that mat, about 9 feet away from the couch? I upped his miralax a little bit in case that was the issue too. 


today, i rinsed out all of the boxes, and i placed his favourite box near where it was, but slightly moved (about 2 feet) in case it was some litterbox conflict between the 2 cats, and so that he might think its a new box and not the "conflict" box. 

Just now i brought him to it (which, hes not fond of being picked up), but luckily he was tense but okay, and he did end up going (which i had to see before i go to sleep, it had been 24 hours since the issue on the door mat). since it had been 24 hours i knew he had to go, so i wasnt about to sleep before seeing it happen. him peeing on the couch would mean no more cats so... i needed to know that that wasnt going to happen. (But he sleeps on that couch all the time... since when do you poop where you sleep?)

When i brought him to the box, i Brought with me some vanilla yogurt and let him smell that as he was getting into the box, although he didnt want any just yet. But luckily he did get in and go, the whole time i was praising him vocally. I hung out with him near, but not too close to the box while he wandered around a bit afterwards, around the area.... he then approached me and did want some yogurt at that point, so i gave him some, while still telling him how good he was. i dont know if he associated that with the box usage since there was a couple minutes in between though. 

after this, i slowly calmly left the area, and he did a couple minutes later. i told him again how good he was. he then went for his food, so i pet him for a few minutes while he ate (which he does enjoy). 

Now he just chilling in the living room (on that same couch but the other end) and im in my room. 

Should i make this yogurt and if needed bringing him to the litterbox a routine for a few days?? So he knows that thats waht he should do? I also dont want him too used to the treats and him not use the box because he didnt get a treat last time. Not sure where that line is...


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

Someone edited this, but theres no advice?? I really need to know whats best to do...


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## Gandalf&Endor (Jun 9, 2014)

My husband and I usually give our kitties treats (either 4 dry kibbles or a pinch of bonito flakes) when ever we see the kitties use the litter box. It doesn't matter that only one kitty went; they both get treats. We have been doing this since they first came to our house. Everybody is happy with this arrangement.

We feed wet food for their regular meals. So they really are happy to get dry kibbles as treats.

Maybe you can make it a routine for you kitty. My kitties still use the litter box when we are not home during the day.


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## Nuliajuk (Oct 25, 2014)

I posted a reply, but it seems to have disappeared.
How big is your cat? I've been watching the Psycho Kitty t.v. series and one thing that seems to come up over and over is the issue of litter boxes being too small for the cats that are supposed to be using them. Another thing is coverings - apparently cats feel vulnerable when on the box and like to be able to see if something is sneaking up on them, so not many seem to like covered boxes.
If you can get access to this show - it's on Nat Geo Wild on my cable package - you might find some useful suggestions. 
I don't know about the yogurt thing - most cats don't want their food anywhere near their litter box, for obvious reasons.


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

Hes about 18 pounds. When I bought a 3rd litterbox to add to the house though, I bought a large one on purpose, but he still prefers "his" original one. None of them have lids so i know its not a covering issue...

I did the yogurt thing because i remembered when we had the urine crystals and he associated the box with the pain, the vet suggested giving treats near the litterbox. to reassociate. but hes not big on treats but loves yogurt, so thats where my motivation was with that... 

Could it all have been due to the feliway running empty and something outside? Im freaking out, ive put natures miracle in both spots like 4 times. I bought a feliway spray to spray onto the couch and the mat at the door... which seems redundant as the diffuser is right there.... but could it all be due to lack of circulating feliway??


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Hi Claiken,
At 18 pounds, that sounds like he might need to lose a little weight?
I'm wondering, because since males are more prone to urinary issues as it is...any extra unnecessary weight, can further pinch off the urethra...

I've got a thread going, because of a little female cat I have, that is also having issues right now...
She was first diagnosed with Struvite Crystals and we dealt with that, then she started peeing in weird places again, so I just took her back to the vet for retesting...no crystals this time, and a culture was taken...results back from that...nothing showing!

I did get some Buprenorphine, which is a safe pain killer, for her, to see if that helps...
I also got a calming collar for her...

AND....as Laurie F. reminded me...Interstitial cystitis, is Very real and can be caused by stresses...
Males are just as prone to Interstitial Cystitis as females...

I'm sorry you're still dealing with this, I know it's frustrating...
And you want him to feel better...
Sharon


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

He probably should lose weight, but he will never play for more than 2 minutes. Never really has. 

Would calming collars in combination with feliway be overkill? Do they make calming breakaway collars? Hmm... 

So far... ive watched him go in the box on 3 nights. Monday night, when i picked him up and brought him, tuesday night he ended up coming down on his own hwen i came down, and same thing last night. I know i *need* to stop feeling the need to watch him go before i will go to sleep, but how does one do that? once that "what if" gets into your mind you really cant sleep well anyway right. 

Ugh,,, I really hope that the fresh feliway diffuser, combined with the spray i bought yesterady will be enough. I know i cant natures miracle the spots everyday forever, hwich was why i bought the spray... but what an expensive little can of spray!! Holy schnikies!


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

I have very little confidence for tonight... I feel as though he has to poo but is holding it in. When he peed (when i went down with him, again) he peed up against the side of the box, which isnt unusual, but there was also a little tiny nugget of poop stuck to the wall which was not there before...

After this (after the rewarding of the peeing), i tried to coax him back down with the litterbox attractant (thats how i got him down for peeing-this worked)... he wouldnt come back down.

So then i went against my better judgement and brought one of the boxes nearer to where he was... he gave it a good checking out, but he wasnt interested... 

i have to go to sleep so i feel ive done all i could do. I gave all the furniture another spraydown of the feliway spray, replaced the catnip on the toys ive been leaving aorund.... gave him his miralax.... i dont know what else to do.

I know hes not blocked. the one on the couch was full, logs, multiple logs. so i know theres no issue that way... im just scared to death that its gonna keep happening, which will make our household severely stressed, either by it happening or by my mother saying thats enough and forcing me to get rid of him. I cant afford to even say "fine ill move on my own then", im still paying off school loans...

this is such a stressful, stressful situation...

even with my getting up and checking before my mother gets up for work... it still has to get corrected. i cant afford to buy a lifetime supply of natures miracle and just follow them around whereever they please to go...

but i DID see him pee again tonight in the box... so at least the worst of the 2 evils is in the box for sure. But now the poop... he hasnt gone since monday morning/sunday night, so i know he must have to..... ugh.


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

He almost pooped outside of the box - again!! This time on the floor near one of his favourite blankets! I caught him, so I picked him up and brought him to the box... he was terrified!!! I don't know what happened to make him so afraid of the litterbox for poop.

Probably by picking him up like that I just ruined any progress I made with peeing as well.

Help??!?? I don't know what to do!!!!

He didn't even get out of that box and go for the others... he went for the couch downstairs!!

So I got him off there and he ended up going on the floor down there. I don't get it?? How thw **** can I correct this???? Hhe doesn't poop everyday so I can't very well set up a routine.....

I'm at a loss.... aahhhhh!!! Help?????


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

I just thought of another detail that makes no sense... when he was blocked up before (constipated) he didn't even avoud the boxes then, until it was to the point of no return, trying to pass little nuggets anywhere he could... even after those vet visits with the water up the butt, he still pooped in the box. So I don't know now if I'm dealing with a pain issue now or what the heck.... if it was pain he would have avoided after the vets would he not???


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

okay, so now im even more confused.... when what happened earlier happened, i put the poop in "his" box.... then at some point between then and now, he went pee in that same box, on his own, which he was terrified of hours prior..... maybe that pee was before the poop, but he had just gone pee like, 5 hours prior, so it had to be after...

while im relieved that he went pee on his own in the box, I dont know how to help him with the poop situation?? Should i leave that poop in there until he has to poop again??

The problem is that i dont know if earlier he checked the boxes first or just didnt want anything to do with them when he had to go either..... 

I read online somewhere that some people use puppy pads to let their cats go on... but i really dont want to do that. that will just teach that anywhere soft is fair game...


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## Heather72754 (Nov 1, 2013)

It's really hard to tell what is going on with him, you've got so many scenarios and varying details that it is a bit confusing. If you've tried all different boxes and all different types of litter, it seems like it's behavioral but I have no clue what else to suggest for you to try. Sorry, maybe someone else will have some suggestions.


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## spirite (Jul 31, 2012)

Oh Claiken I sympathize. I've mentioned before that I have one kitty that used to be chronically constipated, even went to the emergency vet for enemas because she was so uncomfortable, and at one point she peed on two different comforters (no reason that we could figure out). 

Where is the box that he considers "his"? Since the type of box and type of litter aren't the issue, maybe the location is. Even if it's where it's always been, maybe being spooked by whatever it was outside (sounds like it must have been a cat going by) has changed other things. Maybe he associates that with the litterbox as something potentially dangerous or anxiety-inducing. You could change the location to see if that helps.

And with the Nature's Miracle, you really need to let it soak in and then blot up as much liquid as you can with paper towels. For urine, I've found that it works much better if the pee dries, or is at least not very wet, gross as that sounds. Actually, come to think of it, poop and vomit are also easier to clean up if you let it dry first. 

Has he pooped yet? Has he been eating ok? I ask because when Celia is stressed or for whatever reason doesn't eat much of her wet food for a couple of days, which is where I mix in her Miralax, she gets constipated, and she poops out of the box. Two days in a row last weekend. 

Has he been to the vet about this recent issue? It does sound like all of this must be related to whatever stressed him that one day, but I might take him in just in case something else is going on. 

Is it possible that the same cat is coming by your window every day? If so, you could temporarily keep that window covered to see if that helps. 

I hope you find a solution soon. It's really frustrating, and no fun to clean up cat pee...


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

The box is in the same place it has been for, years anyway. I recently moved it by a couple of feet to see if that would be enough of a change for it to be a "new box".

With the mat, what I did was brought it downstairs (its small enough) and rinsed out the pee as much as possible. Then treated. waited till dry then retreated. We are using another one right now and that one has yet to come back in the house... eek. 

He did poop, today, out of the box. I caught him and tried putting him in his box, but he literally freaked out... went for the couch downstairs, i got him off there and ended up passing it on the floor. But, no straining, no pains, no blood or mucus.... no.... anything, except poop. 

Eating and drinking have been the same as always. even his attitude... he was nuzzling up to me hours after i picked him up (whcih he hates) and tried to put him in the box. i discovered just a few minutes ago that when ipicked him up, he had just barely started going. so i picked up the piece and gave it a treatment. But why on his favourite things? That makes no sense, at all....

is it a good idea to leave that poop in the box?

the other possibility i had is if our other cat is somehow becoming dominating over the boxes, but that doesnt seem like her at all. the only thing that happened was one of the times i was watching him pee and praising him, she walked right up to him to see what he was doing... But i dont know how to stop that from happening... theres nowhere that he can go that she cant.


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Claiken,
You always talk about taking him "downstairs" to the litter box...
Why don't you have a litter box "upstairs"??
Maybe that would help, all the way around...
If she is "guarding" she can't guard both...
And since he doesn't like to be picked up as it is...
Every time you pick him up, when he's at his most vulnerable (trying to poo), it's going to make him hold it longer...more constipation, and/or poo in places where he feels the safest to go...
Think how you'd feel, if every time you were on the "Throne" some one came bursting in on you, scaring you!
(Also cats don't like to be stared at!)
Poor guy...he may becoming neurotic! 

Try another box upstairs with the litter attractant and as hard as it is...
try and calm yourself down!
Remember to BREATHE!!
Sharon


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## Marmoset (Feb 18, 2014)

Yes, leave the poop in the box. I did this with a foster who pooped in the corner when he was first let out to explore. I picked it up and put it in the safe room box and he used it every time afterwards. Cat's do like to have their smell where they go- which you seem to already know since you are cleaning things properly to avoid him repeating the accident- so while my regular routine is to keep things very clean I make exceptions for training when needed.


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

The only reason we dont have a box upstairs is because its not feasible. bedrooms are off limits for size, also high traffic areas. the other room is a playroom where easily kids will bolt in and scare him, our bathroom is too small, we all eat in the kitchen.... and thats the whole upstairs. the living room and kitchen are all high traffic and noisy as well. theres just nowhere quiet to put one.

I do get what youre saying but its just not feasible. 

I just hope this gets resolved soon... can you teach a cat "new tricks"?

I know cats are lazy too. The only possible quieter room is the office downstairs. Nobody is in there, hardly ever anyway.... but its further away than the box currently is. if i move "his" box theres even larger risk of accidents on the couches or whatnot downstairs....


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Claiken,
Has he been checked for any arthritis issues, or other joint issues??
I know he seems to be able to get up on the couch, however that doesn't automatically exclude any joint issues...
Just for the hec of it, could you put a step of some kind, right by the litter box??
Garden path "blocks/pavers" pop into mind, as one idea...

Also EFA's (essential fatty acids) were recommended to me for Snickers...and Dosoquin (spelling?)
Both of these supposedly help with bladder inflammations...
Good Luck...
Sharon


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

No, he hasnt been checked for that, but he is only 10. He is due to go for a rabies booster soon anyway though. 

Luckily, I have seen time pee in the box twice, without coaxing him.... he came down on his own when i went down to clean them. 

I have also made - as suggested, somewhere in my reading - a new big litterbox out of what is supposed to be an under the bed storage container. 

I am hoping he will poop in there. The pee seems to be corrected since the mat with the spray has been cleaned.... its the terrified to poop in the box part that has me still concerned about next time he has to go... what if i dont catch him?? Im hoping he will consider this new box a safe place to poop....

the only thing i dont know now is if i should take that other most recent poop and take it from what is now "his" box and into the new box? Im not sure...


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

You could take part of it, and put it the new box!
That way some of his scent/marking poo, is in each box...
And add some litter attractant! 
Sharon


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## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

It seems to me, at this point, that you may need to make a choice between which is less convenient for you - having him poop all over the house, or having a box in a corner of a room upstairs.

You can put a box under and end table in a living room, in a corner of a quieter bed room (yours?), in a closet, ect. Even if it's a really inconvenient location (in the tub, etc), if that fixes the issues it's a clear indicator that you need to find a permanent location for a box upstairs.


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

If one did come upstairs, it would have to be my room... but the reasons im so hesitant is because - if it doesnt fix the issues, will he go on my bed? on my clothes? Will he feel that the whole room is free game because his scent is in there (and my door is almost always closed - with cat door access). I cant use the closet or all my clothes will smell like litterbox.

I do have a fan that i have running in my room that does drown out alot of external noises, it even helps me sleep better with the breeze combined with the hum - that part does make sense. 

I would have no problems doing some rearranging (like moving my garbage can, etc) to accomodate... i just need to know that he will know that only the litterbox is fair game...


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

I think i can breathe a bit of a sigh of relief.... I just witnessed him poop in the box!! Granted, not the new box - his old box... but he used a litterbox!!

I had even picked him up (maybe he could sense the difference in my mood from when i caught him?) to show him the new box i had just set up... it took a few minutes, at first he went back up to the landing, so i just hung out downstairs for a few minutes just to see.... he ended up coming back down and going!! 

So i vocally told him how good he was again... and once we came upstairs I gave him a bit of yogurt, telling him again how could he was (but i wonder if he associated that with the litterbox use?) 

Since he went I felt it was okay to scoop the old and new poop out, so all are clean with attractant on top. 

Im not totally "off guard duty" yet but, definitely a step in the right direction. He wasnt looking for somewhere else to go before i picked him up either (that day when i could tell he was about to go out of the box, he was pawing at the ground the way he normally would in the litter before pooping.)

So, progress...


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

*Has anyone ever done anything like this? A last resort litterbox idea.*

So ive been thinking, if my cat continues to be drawn to pee/go on soft things.... has anyone ever done anything where you dedicate a fleecey blanket or something like that for their cat to "go" on? Like, maybe inside of a litterbox, or on one of those winter mat things meant for wet boots to protect the floor, even with the cat attract on it? Only thing is burying would be impossible.... 

and im wondering how i would differentiate our real blankets from his pee pee blankets... hmmm...

but im curious if something this crazy could just work if all else fails. It would require more laundry to wash the blankets (maybe use a few in rotation?) but... i guess stranger things have happened?

Just wondering if anyone has done anything strange or outside the box (pun intended) like this before? and, if it was successful? Hmm... 

I was tossing ideas around in my head just now, and thought of that. lol.


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## Mandy and Ellie (Oct 22, 2013)

Sorry if this has been mentioned previously in the thread... but has he been FULLY checked out for absolutely any urinary problems? I've watched Jackson Galaxy's show, and people thought the cat was fine ("we went to the vet"), but after getting a second opinion from a different vet and running extensive tests, they always found urinary/bowel issues with any cat not using the litter box properly.


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## TabbCatt (Mar 26, 2014)

This seems to be an ongoing issue from several months ago? If Simba is 10 yrs, was there a recent (within 6 mo) check of a complete senior panel including a urinalysis? Perhaps a second opinion from a new vet may help if your regular one doesn't seem to have answers. 

I'm so sorry, but I'd be more suspect of medical issues if cats tend to urinate only on soft items, and things that lay horizontally instead of vertical. Poor guy had been having off and on litter box issues for far too long. :-(

Crossing fingers for you both.


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## Mandy and Ellie (Oct 22, 2013)

I definitely agree... this really seems to be a medical issue that is either misdiagnosed, or not diagnosed at all. I would get a second opinion of a very high-quality vet, and get very thorough testing done.


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

Its not medical. I know that for a fact. Just before this last pee outside the box, my mother saw a cat outside pointing its butt at our bush which is only like 4 feet from our front door. it has definitely been territorial.

*in between* he has been using the litterbox just fine. I just dont post about that because those are good things/i dont need help with those.


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## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

Claiken said:


> I was tossing ideas around in my head just now, and thought of that. lol.


 Before you do any of that, you need to have a permanent box for him upstairs.


This is the first logical step - until you have proven it doesn't' help it's simply the thing that makes the most sense. Adding yet another box in the basement that's slightly different might help a bit - but if he needs a place to mark upstairs (which might help calm his anxiety) then he needs a litter box upstairs.


IMO other suggestions are useless until you try this very basic and simple fix.



Claiken said:


> Its not medical. I know that for a fact. Just before this last pee outside the box, my mother saw a cat outside pointing its butt at our bush which is only like 4 feet from our front door. it has definitely been territorial.
> 
> *in between* he has been using the litterbox just fine. I just dont post about that because those are good things/i dont need help with those.


It may be *mostly* behavioral due to his anxiety, but that doesn't mean it's solely behavioral.

As an example, my Doran has been spraying outside his box during the summer and fall for the past 4 years. This year (after testing EVERY TIME he had a flare-up) the vet has diagnosed him with idiopathic cystitis due to the constant presence of red blood cells but no infection.

Basically, he has a very delicate bladder and it easily becomes inflamed, this causes him to react to any other stimuli more readily than if his bladder wasn't so tender. Stress causes the inflammation, and the stress of cats outside is enough o set him off.

That clue was enough to give me a few other things to try and a new condition to research.

AND it proved my hunch that Doran's 'behavioral' issue wasn't only behavioral. It's ALSO medical.

I'd strongly suggest trying another vet clinic to get another opinion.


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

I strongly Second everything Librarychick is saying!
Very good advice!


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## MowMow (Nov 6, 2010)

Me three.


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## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

If you'd like to look into the issue of possible cystitis check out this group: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FLUTD/info

Idiopathic cystitis is a fancy way of saying his bladder becomes inflamed and they can`t find an exact cure. That doesn`t mean there aren`t things you can try, but it does mean you might need to be willing to try some out-of-the-box solutions.

My feliway-sprayed collars are a good example, and it seems to be helping.


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

I know ive said it before, but the reason that theres no litterbox upstairs is my mother. . when i suggested my room she became concerned about my sleeping in there with the door shut and "breathing all that stuff in". the playroom is out due to kid scares. the bathroom is too small to even actually physically fit a box in. the living room and kitchen are too small and where we cook and eat (including where the cats eat) and that is the whole upstairs... 

even in my room its going to "track through the whole house" which i can see happening, it tracks pretty good as it is. 

aside from training him to pee in the toilet, options are limited. 

so yes, i know how "easy" that is... but its really not so easy in limited space.

ETA: I did just recently read that youre supposed to shake the feliway spray... maybe using it properly will be more effective. the cats outside need to go away... as much as i dont mind them around, and even our other cat doesnt mind them around.... their smells are causing problems, clearly.


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## Mandy and Ellie (Oct 22, 2013)

So your mother would rather have a cat who urinates throughout the house than an extra litter box or two? Does she realize that cat urine can make her house stink horribly, and the odor can be permanent if it leaks beneath to the subfloor. However, litter boxes can be cleaned... as can litter that might track on the floor. She could always just... you know... vacuum. Litter isn't permanent. Put a rug outside of the litter box and vacuum it regularly...

Training a cat with litter box issues to use the toilet is a certain nightmare, especially since it still seems there's a stress-related health condition here. It's uncomfortable enough for him to use a litter box, using a toilet consistently would _never_ happen. However, we've all tried giving our advice of getting a second, thorough opinion from a vet multiple times, and have also suggested extra litter boxes... so there's not much else to say. If you take anything from our suggestions, please read librarychick's advice... this cat probably still has a medical issue that hasn't been discovered. Taking him to another vet and getting thorough testing on everything dealing with his urinary system done should be the first priority.


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## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

Why not have your mother sit down and read this thread. Hearing it from you is one thing, hearing it from all of us might convince her.

I've got to say though, i dont have any warm fuzzies for someone who refuses to add another litter box, yet threatens to rehome a senior cat. No gold stars for THAT faulty logic.


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## MowMow (Nov 6, 2010)

At this point perhaps a new home would be best for this poor guy. Someplace with less stress and someone willing to work with him 100% to fox this issue. He's got reasons he does this, it's not because he wants too.....


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

I dont know if you all understand though... he has been anxious and jumpy since day one... this is not new, at all. 

he doesnt go out of the box ALL THE TIME as you guys sound, its once in a while. months can go by without any unusual activity.

I dont have $1000 at all, let alone $1000 just to say that he is healthy as suspected... 

the reason for the most recent couple have been the cats outside which i saw with my own eyes - an external reason.

I love him and im not about to rehome him because of this, theyre both only still here in the first place because of me.... thats why im trying my darn best to work with both him and my mother. 

When i was asking about the blanket thing, it wasnt even because something had happened *again*.... it was purely thinking and brainstorming. 

I just watched him do both things in the box today actually, as well as paw around and bury... maybe he is unlike most cats and feels better when someone is around, even when going, who knows. 

i was exaggerating when i mentioned training him to use the toilet. that wasnt an actual consideration.

and when there is anything ever outside of the box, i *ALWAYS* check it for blood/mucous/anything at all unusual, so i know whether its health or territorial (even in the box i make sure for the size of the pee clumps and poops, im always aware). Its been territorial. before that was due to fear of the box due to painful pooping (which i didnt know was happening until he totally blocked up). 

So now i never skip a day with the miralax and that has improved greatly.

Now the odd thing he does do, is territorial. 

He was here first so he is the "alpha" cat, so he must "defend his home"... i get it from a cats mind, even my mom understands it. we dont like it but we do understand it from his point.

Maybe ill get further using the feliway properly. It was literally like the day before yesterday that i found out youre supposed to shake it. maybe that does make the difference. 

have also been using the litter attractant daily again. I had stopped because i didnt think it was making any difference. maybe it was...


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## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

Claiken said:


> I dont know if you all understand though... he has been anxious and jumpy since day one... this is not new, at all.
> 
> he doesnt go out of the box ALL THE TIME as you guys sound, its once in a while. months can go by without any unusual activity.


It's not us making it sound like it's a huge deal - you've said numerous times your mother has given him a 'One more time and I'll....' sort of ultimatum. THAT sort of threat will get everyone here all concerned and jumping right in to help. We want him to stay with you, but that means listening to our advice and trying our suggestions.



Claiken said:


> I dont have $1000 at all, let alone $1000 just to say that he is healthy as suspected...


I am extremely sympathetic to this point. Trust me. I've had to put off getting new winter tires (despite this being what our roads looked like last week...) because of vet bills. I've given up LOTS of nice things in order to afford emergency vet care. I get it.

BUT you are not a vet. I am not a vet. No one here is a vet. So, none of us (particularly us internet people - who have never met your cat in person) can diagnose him or declare him healthy. Simply not possible.

If he's not having many issues at the moment I would personally wait...but the second he starts going out of the box again I'd have him back to the vet in an instant. That's just what you need to do.



Claiken said:


> the reason for the most recent couple have been the cats outside which i saw with my own eyes - an external reason.
> 
> I love him and im not about to rehome him because of this, theyre both only still here in the first place because of me.... thats why im trying my darn best to work with both him and my mother.


As are we. We can only work on what you've told us. We don't know your mother (and what you're passing on doesn't go over well in a forum of people who are here because we love cats...) and we can't say what she might or might not do, outside of what you've told us. So, to us, that means your kitty is at risk of losing his home unless you make changes - which is why we're being pushy.



Claiken said:


> When i was asking about the blanket thing, it wasnt even because something had happened *again*.... it was purely thinking and brainstorming.


It's great to brainstorm... but you're planning to run a marathon before you've gone a block. Aka - you're making things harder than they have to be.

You start with the basics, THEN you move on to more difficult or involved, or personalized (purr-sonalized?  ) solutions.



Claiken said:


> and when there is anything ever outside of the box, i *ALWAYS* check it for blood/mucous/anything at all unusual, so i know whether its health or territorial (even in the box i make sure for the size of the pee clumps and poops, im always aware). Its been territorial. before that was due to fear of the box due to painful pooping (which i didnt know was happening until he totally blocked up).


Ok, but you're still not a vet. Signs of illness aren't always obvious. You can stare at his poop all you like, if he has certain parasites you won't see them without a microscope - simple facts. You can't even begin to accurately diagnose him at home.

It's very good that you're paying such close attention, you'll see any signs of illness right when they pop up - but that means he has to have SIGNS, which he might not have (other than going out of the box).



Claiken said:


> Now the odd thing he does do, is territorial.
> 
> He was here first so he is the "alpha" cat, so he must "defend his home"... i get it from a cats mind, even my mom understands it. we dont like it but we do understand it from his point.


Well, you're pretty much right, but the trainer in me has to clarify:

It has nothing to do with him being 'alpha' - the idea of a cat being top of a hierarchical group is silly, since (other than lions and occasionally cheetahs) cats don't form groups. (*note* there has been some anecdotal data that feral cats can form sort of amorphous groups...but there's still no ridgid hierarchy involving an 'alpha'. Rather, females band together to raise their young, the young stick around for a while and males stick to the periphery of the group to seek mating advantage. Still, no 'pride' or 'pack' of cats which would need an 'alpha'.....also, 'alpha' as a term for dog's social structure is very outdated. Do a Google search for 'dominance myth dogs' for lots of info.)

He IS feeling anxious and maybe even under attack from those outside cats. If it's possible to find ways to discourage them from being near your home, and marking it, then I'd go for that as part of your solution.



Claiken said:


> Maybe ill get further using the feliway properly. It was literally like the day before yesterday that i found out youre supposed to shake it. maybe that does make the difference.
> 
> have also been using the litter attractant daily again. I had stopped because i didnt think it was making any difference. maybe it was...


Both of those things may help.

I'm still going to stress having a litter box upstairs. Cats, just like people, tend to get older with time. As he gets older you may find his accidents increase due to having to go a long way and down stairs for his litter box.

Is there any way you could try having a box in your closet in your room? Keep it well scooped (and there will be little to no odor), and you may find that he 'magically' stops going outside the box. If that works for a month show your mother - "Look! All he needed was a box upstairs and he stopped going outside the box! Neat, hey!"

If it doesn't help at then...well, you should still keep it up there, TBH. But my hunch is that it will help a LOT.


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

*touching wood* things have been ok so far. Now granted, i havent replaced the mat by the front door yet. But I have been spraying feliway once a day along with the diffuser going. The spot on the couch that was hit ive been spraying more than once a day. 

Ive also incorporated the treats after seeing him use the litter technique. I cant remember if i read that here or on "**********", but i remember reading it and thought it couldnt hurt. I purposely bought different treats than their regular for no reason treats. I dont know if he associates those with using the litter or not.... or maybe not yet. but he does like them. the first night they were both down there, so although boo didnt have to go, i gave them both a treat anyway. she was right there so i couldnt very well only give him one, she wouldnt understand that.

*paws crossed*


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