# Meow is dead



## jusjim (Jun 30, 2009)

Meow, the 39 lb obese cat, has died of respiratory failure. I can't help wondering if all the lugging about to show him off, TV appearances etc., contributed. People get sick when their life is disturbed, so I think the same could happen to cats, and Meow already had enough problems.

Animal Tracks - Meow the 39-pound cat dies

Very sad.


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## kty78 (Mar 18, 2012)

Poor guy.


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## Leazie (Apr 14, 2007)

Godspeed over the Bridge Meow.


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## Fran (Jan 9, 2008)

Awwwww...! 

Fran


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## razzle (May 20, 2010)

So sad. He died because he was so fat and his organs couldn't take it anymore. You can tell by the shape of his coat that it wasn't good. How could he clean himself. Screech is 21 lbs and on a diet. He has trouble cleaning his back end. I have to clean his butt every once in a while because he can't clean it and it smells and he gets knots though i try to brush him everyday. But soon he will be going to a no kill shelter. Wish i could take him because he just loves people, being petted, and groomed. This really upsets me that he will be going to a shelter.

Kathy


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## maggie23 (Mar 10, 2012)

That is so terrible. That poor innocent cat! Absolutely horrible. :-(


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

"we were in a race against time to get the weight off" from a little 2x2 cage, how, exactly??

I have trouble getting my cats to play within a house! theres no way that thing was gonna play enough in that small of a space.

Poor guy


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## cinderflower (Apr 22, 2012)

Claiken said:


> "we were in a race against time to get the weight off" from a little 2x2 cage, how, exactly??
> 
> I have trouble getting my cats to play within a house! theres no way that thing was gonna play enough in that small of a space.
> 
> Poor guy


i don't think it mattered how big his cage was, he could only take a couple of steps without lying down and being out of breath. they were probably just cutting calories and crossing their fingers, hoping they could get him to a size where he could actually exercise.

and yeah, i don't think being on t.v. helped any. poor thing.


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## Straysmommy (Dec 23, 2010)

So very, very sad...

Can someone tell me what breed he may have been?

And I wonder what the old lady fed him that he became so fat...?


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## Penny135 (Apr 6, 2011)

He had lost a couple of pounds before his death. On catster they were giving updates about him. 

R.I.P Meow. You were a lovely cat.


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## dweamgoil (Feb 3, 2010)

I was so saddened by the passing of poor Meow, I began researching resources online discussing the horrible effects of overfeeding pets. Here, in NYC, the main entity to report animal abuse is the ASPCA so I logically went to their site during my search. I must confess I was very disappointed to find this was not one of the signs for abuse listed on their website. I then proceeded to send them the following email:

I was perusing through the ASPCA.org webpages, and came across the How to Recognize Cruelty page you have posted on your website. Although it makes me very happy that such a valuable resource exists to give voice to those who cannot speak for themselves, it made me really sad that one sign was left out, overfeeding your pets. I am certain your organization would agree that cats and dogs should not look obese.

I do understand that sometimes it’s hard to know where to draw the line; when does a well meaning owner go overboard indulging their pet? However, maybe posting guidelines of what a healthy pet looks like side by side one who has been overfed would help to educate people that this is not OK. Not addressing it at all send the message that no problem exists and allows it to continue decreasing the lifespan of many of our local pets, particular in an urban setting like ours, where many animals are kept in cramped apartments.

I will also share with you that after my last cat was adopted from your facility (back in June of 2009), I went for our after care appointment to your Bergh Memorial Hospital. While we were waiting to be seen, some older ladies came in with 2 very overweight Chihuahuas. The dogs also seemed to be in their senior years. The ladies were carting the dogs around in shopping carts, and these poor helpless dogs looked like stuffed hams. It was really disturbing to watch these women fawning over these animals, and carrying them bundled up in small blankets like babies, but the whole time without allowing them to set foot on the ground to walk for themselves. One of the dogs was almost entirely paralyzed, and most likely routinely confined to the shopping cart as if it were a wheelchair. I cannot understand how hoarders are called out and penalized for being cruel to animals, but people who clearly overfeed their pets to the point that they are cutting the animal’s life short, and brining on the same disease and conditions that obese humans acquire, such as diabetes, arthritis, respiratory failure, heart attacks, etc., are not.

Please set the example and include this insidious sign of animal abuse in its rightful place, your website.

Regards,

DweaM

I am hoping that they will pay attention, but we'll see. I think it is a cause that definitely deserves attention.


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## cinderflower (Apr 22, 2012)

Straysmommy said:


> So very, very sad...
> 
> Can someone tell me what breed he may have been?
> 
> And I wonder what the old lady fed him that he became so fat...?


just looked like a dsh to me. i don't think anyone knows what his diet was but it's a theory that pets become obese from eating a diet of something like just meat that isn't nutritionally balanced. you know, table scraps kinds of things. they get spoiled and refuse to eat anything else.

dweamgoil, you won't see me defending weight-challenged pets, i have always been very conscious of this and have normal weight cats (although they'd be plus size if i let them eat whenever they want). BUT--this can be one of those areas that is subjective. obviously, none of the pictures you posted is okay (i lol'd, sorry, i can't help it, and i can't understand how someone can have a chihuahua shaped like a football whose legs just stick straight out and don't touch the floor but i'm sure there's more than a few out there somewhere), but can you imagine what would happen to animal care & cruelty if that becomes listed as an infraction? EVERYONE would be calling, there are a lot of people with heavy animals. i'm sure they aren't abusing them and they aren't nearly as big as the ones in the pictures, but fat is fat.

human beings don't seem capable of assessing a normal weight for themselves when 50% of the population in the US is overweight (i don't know what % of that is obese). don't get me wrong, everyone doesn't have to be keira knightly or calysta flockhart size, but i am really sick of truly obese people calling themselves "curvy" when the curves are in reality, rolls. i don't think it's healthy, and even if they don't have health problems at 25, if you're 100 lbs. overweight long enough, it will take its toll. i think it's another form of body dysmorphia to say you look "okay" when you really need to lose weight, just like thinking you're fat when you are indeed a walking skeleton.

so it would be nice to say that obvious abuse (like meow) is a reportable offense, but i have learned that you cannot trust public perception when it comes to "using your own judgment". some people just don't have any. i think it would be a complete headache for ACC to try to respond to every call about someone having a fat pet. plus, no one is calling DHS or DCP on people who have fat kids.

you don't need to go far to see examples of decisions gone awry: octo-mom. tanning bed mom. balloon boy. there are too many to name.


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## dweamgoil (Feb 3, 2010)

It's not a perception issue. Right now, insurance plans use weight and BMI (which IMO is not as reliable) as a marker to approve or deny benefits. Weight is used to diagnose medical conditions in humans, and to recommend nutritional plans, surgeries and treatments by healthcare professionals, etc. It's not too far off that local agencies may intervene when children are overfed to the point of morbid obesity. Schools already regulate snacks, implement gym classes, etc.

I personally don't see either Keira Knightly, Callista Flockhart or any of the other holloywood lollypop heads as healthy either. Starvation as a method to lose weight is not healthy. Skinny is the other extreme and there are levels ranging from celebrity skinny to anorexics, etc. But, if you starve a person or an animal, there is medical intervention involved. The same should be true for the opposite condition.

In NYC, AC&C does just that, control the population. They do not respond to abuse allegations or investigate anything besides maybe putting down a colony of ferals. They are a high volume kill shelter. They also do adoptions. The ASPCA is more in line with what we think of as animal cops.

Here in NYC, if your child is sufficiently overweight, the school will get involved, and at minimum, you are investigated or referred to a clinician to educate you regarding eating habits and diet. The same should be done for pets who are overfed to the extent of morbidity. The key is changing people's attitudes from dismissive to giving it the priority it deserves. And of course, educating owners on how to feed and when things are getting out of control.

The same type of apathy also existed 20, 30 years ago when owners would consider neutering and spaying as a waste of good money.


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## dweamgoil (Feb 3, 2010)

I hate the 5 minute editing rule...lol

I will finish by stating that I am also not only advocating punishing people as a means to modify their behavior, but more intervention and education programs for owners to receive the education they need. There are a lot of people that do mean well, but things end up going astray.


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## cinderflower (Apr 22, 2012)

i understand what you're saying and i agree with it, but i taught middle school for 16 years and i can tell you that there is a huge chasm between policy and procedure. there is what _should_ happen and there's what does happen. i don't know about n.y. state, but in colorado, if you suggest psychiatric counseling to a family, the _school_ is obligated to pay for it. (please don't bring up columbine lol) (it isn't funny--i've just heard about it day in and day out ever since it happened). so even if we noticed an obvious problem, it was practically impossible to handle.

i'm not apathetic at all, i think it's gross when people do this to animals. i think it's wrong not to spay or neuter, but i just don't see how it's possible to be the weight police when people don't even adhere to laws regarding altering pets. the shelters are inserting themselves when it comes to spay/neuter but it's so hard to enforce what people do with the animals once they get home. fortunately reproductive surgery can't be undone, but someone can take a normal weight pet and feed it to death.

i also don't know all the laws regarding animal cruelty so i might just be talking out my butt. since starvation is definitely an abuse violation, wouldn't a morbidly obese report already be dealt with in the same way? take the same formula to calculate whether a pet is morbidly obese as you do with humans, i don't see that as too far a stretch. meow was definitely not dealt with fairly for at least two years, but i'm thinking that the 87-year-old didn't just stroll in (or forklift in) with him and say, "i just can't afford to feed this cat any longer." i believe that either a family member stepped in or even a neighbor reported the heinous situation and the sr. citizen voluntarily surrendered the animal. i just don't think the news reported that part.

personally i would like to see parent education class requirements across the board, but that is never going to happen. of course education is a good idea, but in addition to people who don't know, there are many people who just don't care.

(this is off-topic but i remember the first year i taught. every time i passed a particular student, i noticed a really bad smell. at first i thought it was gas, but i noticed over some time that it was always the same student and it was consistent. i explained it to another teacher and asked him what the smell was, and he said, "dirty laundry. they don't have anything clean to wear so they dig stuff out of the hamper." that was exactly what it smelled like too, a mixture of dirty diapers and garbage. so i said, "omg. shouldn't i call child protective services?" and he said, "then what are you going to do, take her laundry home and do it every night?")

i've never seen a 5 minute editing rule either. i use preview a million times and i still make mistakes so i've given up lol.


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## dweamgoil (Feb 3, 2010)

I hear ya, Cinder, and trust me, I don't expect to change the world overnight or for my suggestions to be automatically implemented because I sent an email. I just felt that this is an important issue, and it was worth writing in about it. I am sure they will send me the canned response. 

I also know it's a bigger issue to enforce things like this, and there are a lot of aspects that I don't see as a layperson. An emaciation case, surely is of much higher priority than someone slowly chunking up their pet over time; so of course, available resources should be allocated to cases that warrant immediate action. However, I do feel that people do need to speak up. I am of the school that if you always do nothing, then you have no right to complain.

I also agree that perhaps there was more to this story than what they reported in the press, but they probably felt it was moot to make bad press for the owner and turn that person into a martyr being persecuted by the big bad institution...


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## cinderflower (Apr 22, 2012)

well, good luck  you know, this is probably far too much to hope for as well, but i think vets could step in some. schools must report any suspected abuse (and that's an entire separate nightmare but *at least* maybe a few less cases go undetected and unprosecuted) so why not vets? i mean right there you cut down on the goofball calls ("my neighbor's cat is too fat and she keeps putting spandex on it and this is a CRIME!") because you'd have documentation from a licensed source. i have no idea if vets take photos and document suspicious injuries (if they don't, they should, but i have a suspicion that by the time a vet sees it, the owner isn't the one who took the animal in and has disappeared like a ghost) but that would be good. i'm taking my little old lady for her blood level checks (thyroid meds) the 21st so i'll just ask dr. andy what they do if someone brings in a morbidly obese pet. the scales are right there.

wouldn't it be nice if it were a prosecutable offense? i think the same thing about these people who can't get out of bed but their kids are stuck feeding them. a lot of people would say, "well there you go, if they can't walk to the kitchen or the store and get it, they don't eat it," but i know the dynamics aren't exactly like that. easy to say, probably not nearly as easy to do. but it's the same with animals. it _should_ be even easier, since a cat can't cuss you out for not buying oreos and chocodiles, or throw the remote at your head. :jump


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## dweamgoil (Feb 3, 2010)

Well, absolutely some of the responsibility would fall on vets, but you have to be careful because you don't want to discourage people from providing care to an animal because they can't take being lectured about their pet's weight. This is why I think education is key. It is less off-putting, but yes, the vet should document even if at first they don't report it. Maybe by a 2nd or 3rd visit, if the animal gets worse or makes no improvement then the owner can be reported, but there has to be a reasonable window of opportunity for someone to get their act together.


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## GhostTown (Jan 12, 2012)

I don't agree with parading the cat around like a circus side show attraction considering the condition that it was in.


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## cinderflower (Apr 22, 2012)

dweamgoil said:


> Well, absolutely some of the responsibility would fall on vets, but you have to be careful because you don't want to discourage people from providing care to an animal because they can't take being lectured about their pet's weight. This is why I think education is key. It is less off-putting, but yes, the vet should document even if at first they don't report it. Maybe by a 2nd or 3rd visit, if the animal gets worse or makes no improvement then the owner can be reported, but there has to be a reasonable window of opportunity for someone to get their act together.


it would be like getting yelled at for smoking or being told your high blood pressure is going to kill you if you don't lose 50 lbs. some people see everything as lecturing, but they're very stubborn and it doesn't matter what you say or do. they get sick of hearing the same thing over and over and over because they don't listen. what happens to a person who is 100 lbs. overweight, smokes two packs a day, won't have any cancer screenings, blood sugar is 449 and cholesterol pushing 700? they die. they don't want to hear what horrible care they take of themselves so they avoid the doctor as much as possible. too bad. a person's body is their own to mutilate or abuse as much as they want to, but animals (and children) have no voice. as far as adults go, i can't care if they don't so i don't bother wasting my breath. i can't be bothered to lecture an adult because chances are really good they've heard it 100 times already and my one time is not the one that's going to work.

i don't mean, "CALL 911 STAT!" except maybe in the case of a person bringing in a cat who looked like meow. a 2-year-old cat that weighs 39 lbs. is obviously in crisis. doctors have no problem calling the police when a child is chronically brought in with strange bruises and unexplained fractures, i think vets should be the same way--the more serious the abuse, the more urgent and severe the solution. tragically, when you see a cat that looks like that, there is no quick fix and its days are numbered already. i think whoever gave the okay to make all those tv appearances made a grave error. but the general public's addiction to tragedygasms is just one reason why i refuse to watch the news. i saw it online. a picture of the cat would have sufficed. it wasn't even ready for adoption yet, so i think it was stupid but *that's what people watch*.

height and weight charts would help (or length or whatever) because i don't think people equate the amount an animal is overweight proportionately. then again, a lot of people are morons and it doesn't matter what you tell them, they're going to do whatever they want as long as they don't suffer immediate consequences.

personally, i have never ever, in 20 years, seen fat animals in the waiting room at my vet's. they must exist, but the vets there are very proactive and i would imagine they say something. additonally, they aren't really cheap so i think if someone is going to pay that much to take their pets to the vet, they don't ignore the advice.


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## Nora B (Nov 6, 2010)

It is sad but at the same time it is very very real. I think the world would have loved a feel good story where he lost weight, got better and got adopted. I think meow inadvertently gave the world the first of many wake up and pay attention calls that it needs - fat cats are not cute, fat cats are sick. and now the most most recently famous fat cat is dead. it is the best message that could get sent to the general public , just sad the cost to get the info out there. For what it is worth, Meow led a life of import if people start to pay attention & a life that leads to change and the betterment of many is a life worth living & dying for. IMHO - I'd like to be able to do as much.


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## cinderflower (Apr 22, 2012)

most of the things on the news are real, i just don't care about seeing them. i can't do anything about 99.9% of it, and the small percentage of things i _can_ do something about, i already am or have. i don't find it helpful.

i'm for utilitarianism, *if it works*. unfortunately, i honestly don't think it will make any difference. it doesn't take a brain scientist to know that a cat that can only walk two steps is in really bad shape. if networks and newspapers had an altruistic purpose in showcasing the cat, i'd have a different opinion. i just think they did it at the cost of the cat's life because it got viewers and readers. people who do absolutely nothing but watch the news and say, "tsk tsk tsk isn't that horrible?" and wait for the next awful thing to be publicized. not one time did i see a caveat about the situation being hideous or any focus on weight-loss for pets, but i only saw things online. if matt lauer said something about it on the today show, good for him. if not, shame on him even more for just being another media prostitute. 

i don't even think the shock PSA's that feature double amputees and tracheostomies do any good for smoking cessation. if people want to quit, they do. if not, they are momentarily shocked and horrified and then go about doing things the way they always have. 

i'm not as bitter and angry as this sounds: i simply hate sensationalism and the "news". television coverage of almost anything is biased and they have their own agendas: making money. what kind of spin is put on particular stories depends on the venue, but it's all the same end. when abominable situations are blatantly exploited, it sickens me. i feel the same way about attempts to manipulate viewers: those horrible ASPCA commercials where there are subtitles that speak for the animal. yes, they're suffering. yes, it's horrible. no, animals do not think that way, people do. the same thing is done with children's fund. sugar water is daubed on babies' faces to attract flies. very little money ever reaches the implied target, that's why if i'm going to give money to an organization, i prefer not to when they produce commercials like that. the money could do a lot more good elsewhere.

when i see a weight watchers/jenny craig/nutrisystem ad with kirstie alley and her 50 lb. chihuahua joining a "pets minus pounds" program, i might think they're headed the right direction.


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

cinderflower said:


> i'm not as bitter and angry as this sounds.....


 :shock:


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## MowMow (Nov 6, 2010)

cinderflower said:


> i'm not as bitter and angry as this sounds


I hope not.


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## cinderflower (Apr 22, 2012)

lol. i just really dislike the media.


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## cinderflower (Apr 22, 2012)

p.s. (sorry for the double) --i do watch the weather, and since it's in the first 8 minutes occasionally i catch something else. there was a woman in ohio whose pug died from eating chicken jerky snacks. it said they were made and distributed in the states, but then if you looked very closely, it said "made in china" (and nothing against any products imported, exported, whatever). but i think there have been several problems with pet food made there. anyway, her dog died of renal failure.

she just chalked it up to old age, and got a six-month-old puppy and was still using the same snacks. well, the puppy was sick and in renal failure but she was able to reverse it after taking it to the vet and throwing out the jerky. she then contacted the company with this complaint, but was told that anything could have caused renal failure in either dog, blah blah blah lawyer-speak, so she got nowhere, but there are reports from all over the u.s. from people feeding their dogs these specific treats and the dogs die or are seriously ill. as a result of these (sad) stories, a vet made an appearance on the news and told people that if they currently had this brand in the house to throw it out.

*that* kind of news is useful. of course it's sad, but it provided a service and probably prevented more needless pet deaths. none of the people featured were being exploited. i think the line between unpleasant-but-serving-a-purpose and just unpleasant-as-in-people-who-gawk-at-car-wrecks has been blurred in the race for viewers. sadly, there is very little useful news broadcast.


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## amelia100 (Mar 12, 2011)

so very cruel. I don't for the life of me understand how a cat can get so fat! I've never had a fat cat and never intend to. If this doesn't justify the argument that cats should NOT live an indoor life i don't know what does. People need to take into account how cats naturally need an outdoor active life. I'd even go as far as saying that if you can't provide that for a cat, then you shouldn't even own one at all. I can understand that in very rare cases a cat is genetically prone to getting so fat, but beyond that, there seems to be no excuse that justifies it. Oh well, poor kitty. Life is such.


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## dweamgoil (Feb 3, 2010)

amelia100 said:


> If this doesn't justify the argument that cats should NOT live an indoor life i don't know what does. People need to take into account how cats naturally need an outdoor active life. I'd even go as far as saying that if you can't provide that for a cat, then you shouldn't even own one at all.


Whoa, there tiger! I think you are reaching for straws from a very far distance here. This is about overfeeding and not monitoring diet rather than denying access to the outside....not really related. Many statistics show indoor cats live much longer, healthier, and safer lives than outdoor cats hands down.

This is also not a condition for indoor cats only. There are plenty of dogs, who are fat. I was walking around City Island yesterday, a beach town near my home, and most people have dogs in their yards. Out of a good 25 dogs I saw yesterday, I didn't see *one* dog that didn't look severely overweight. This does not mean they should all be allowed to roam loose so they can lose the pounds. It means the owners need to take a more active role in their animal's lifestyle habits (nutrition, play opportunities, exercising, etc.). 

However, the sad truth is that many Americans feel very comfortable camping out on the couch for hours at a time stuffing their faces with nutritionally shallow snacks, and incorporating regular exercise into their own lives is a rarity. If they can't control their own weight, how well do you think they will be able to manage their animals' bodily proportions? People tend to project their own behaviors onto their pets.


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## Arkona (May 7, 2012)

dweamgoil said:


> Whoa, there tiger! I think you are reaching for straws from a very far distance here. This is about overfeeding and not monitoring diet rather than denying access to the outside....not really related. Many statistics show indoor cats live much longer, healthier, and safer lives than outdoor cats hands down.


And to add to your response: in my neighborhood there is an outdoor cat that is very clearly overweight. Allowing your cat outdoors isn't going to help them, either, if you free-feed them kibble all day when they are home. Indoor cats that are fed a proper diet and exercised regularly (via playing sessions) do just fine, thank you very much.

(And by "just fine" I mean "GREAT")


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

amelia100 said:


> so very cruel. I don't for the life of me understand how a cat can get so fat! I've never had a fat cat and never intend to. If this doesn't justify the argument that cats should NOT live an indoor life i don't know what does. People need to take into account how cats naturally need an outdoor active life. I'd even go as far as saying that if you can't provide that for a cat, then you shouldn't even own one at all. I can understand that in very rare cases a cat is genetically prone to getting so fat, but beyond that, there seems to be no excuse that justifies it. Oh well, poor kitty. Life is such.


Good grief. 

Judgmental much? 

Has absolutely NOTHING to do with where the cat lives.


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## MowMow (Nov 6, 2010)

amelia100 said:


> I'd even go as far as saying that if you can't provide that for a cat, then you shouldn't even own one at all.


Right! I'm headed to the vet RIGHT now to put bot my guys down. I'm not fit to own cats!


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## Whaler (Feb 13, 2011)

one of my feral cats. 











some of the descriptions of her from people that work near my colony include; "well fed", "portly" and "fat".


for what its worth she has gained weight since this picture and only eats canned food. i have started her on a diet which is not easy when trying to do it with a feral.

so yes, even a 100% outdoor cat can "bulk up".


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

The outside cat (who hangs out on my porch) at my new place is FAT. His stupid "owner" goes around in all the alleys and feeds all his outside cats, but he's also feeding the possums, skunks, roaches, ants, etc.


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## cinderflower (Apr 22, 2012)

MowMow said:


> Right! I'm headed to the vet RIGHT now to put bot my guys down. I'm not fit to own cats!


you're nicer than i am. i live downtown on the fifth floor so i think i'll just throw mine out the window. (no screens either, historic denver won't let me put them on to keep the outside looking like it did 100 years ago what the--never mind). perfect for when i have trash and don't want to go down to the dumpster too.


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## amelia100 (Mar 12, 2011)

I didn't mean to sound like a nazi. I can see I've offended people. Sorry. All I meant is that imo it is preferable that a cat has access to outdoor space so they can run around, learn to hunt and do what comes naturally to them. That's all Im saying, and it is a personal opinion so maybe i should just keep it to myself.


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## dweamgoil (Feb 3, 2010)

Amelia,

I wouln't worry about it too much. The inside / outside thing is a pretty hot button issue around here. Just FYI, most people in this forum feel that indoor living is best. However, I do think you should feel free to express your opinions, but at the same time, you should feel prepared to receive responses to those opinions...after all, that is the nature of a forum.


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## MowMow (Nov 6, 2010)

I'm not offended by people who think indoor/outdoor is best. I *AM* offended by someone saying I shouldn't have a cat if I don't allow them out.

That would be like me saying that if you aren't feeding good quality, by produce free, grain free canned food that you shouldn't be allowed to have cats.


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## cinderflower (Apr 22, 2012)

amelia100 said:


> I didn't mean to sound like a nazi. I can see I've offended people. Sorry. All I meant is that imo it is preferable that a cat has access to outdoor space so they can run around, learn to hunt and do what comes naturally to them. That's all Im saying, and it is a personal opinion so maybe i should just keep it to myself.


you didn't sound like a nazi. nazis were evil and cruel, but not complete morons. the only kind of person who would make a statement like that is either:

1) very young and naive;
2) a complete moron.

i'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you're naive.

i wasn't even offended. someone says something ridiculous online, i'm liable to say something sarcastic. that's how i roll.


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## amelia100 (Mar 12, 2011)

cinderflower said:


> you didn't sound like a nazi. nazis were evil and cruel, but not complete morons. the only kind of person who would make a statement like that is either:
> 
> 1) very young and naive;
> 2) a complete moron.
> ...


 
Well, I've already apologised. But at the end of the day, it is my opinion, and you can call me a moron or naive if you like. But I don't care. You're being quite offensive to me, but I don't mind, since it shows we both have strong opinions and we care and there's nothing wrong with that. I won't however be forced to change my mind, I do however, understand to an extent. I'm simply talking about an ideal situation. That is all. I feel like I'm being bludgeoned from all sides. Lol. Maybe I should express myself less severely in future. 
:daisy


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

amelia100 said:


> I'd even go as far as saying that if you can't provide that for a cat, then you shouldn't even own one at all.


It's statements like this that get people riled up. I'm usually the first one to defend people from England and other countries who let their cats out, because that's the norm there. But to say *not* letting your cat outside means you shouldn't even own one is just as bad and equally as offensive. 

We've learned to agree to disagree on the subject here.


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

amelia100 said:


> Maybe I should express myself less severely in future.


No "maybe" about it.


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## BotanyBlack (Apr 6, 2011)

When I lived out in the middle of Nowhere USA. I had no problem letting my cats out. I was surrounded by farmland that was well hunted for predators... so I thought. when my cat Sherbert was 8 months old he slipped outside. usually only allowed out during the day. That night I heard the most God Awful screaming right under my window. I flipped on a light in time to see a Bobcat with Sherbert's head in his mouth.. his whole head. I must have startled it because it dropped my cat and ran for it. Sherbert was lucky. even though he was covered in blood, he had remarkably few wounds. just a puncture behind one ear and one on his chin. Needless to say, they never went out without wearing their harnesses again. Now I live in town and I see cats on the side of the road all the time. All my cat's are indoor only. unless on leash. None of them are fat.
Well Gypsy may be pushing the slightly pudgy side...

I will not lecture people on whether to keep their cat's indoors or not, everyone has an opinion. now I do lecture on spay and neutering. 

Express your opinion just remember to temper it a bit. Some of use have reasons and experiences for keeping them inside.

Now back to the original topic. I feel bad he died. Carting him around could not have helped , I do hope it does create a bit of awareness, but frankly I am not holding my breath on it.


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## amelia100 (Mar 12, 2011)

marie73 said:


> It's statements like this that get people riled up. I'm usually the first one to defend people from England and other countries who let their cats out, because that's the norm there. But to say *not* letting your cat outside means you shouldn't even own one is just as bad and equally as offensive.
> 
> We've learned to agree to disagree on the subject here.


 
I guess I'm learning a lesson here. I'm just so used to being in a country where it's way more common to have outdoor cats. I guess I didn't realise in the US things were different. I think agreeing to disagree would be best however. I didn't mean to offend and I"m sure all your cats are very much loved. That is not at all what I was questioning. I guess it's a case of what we are familiar with at the end of the day.


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## cinderflower (Apr 22, 2012)

amelia100 said:


> Well, I've already apologised. But at the end of the day, it is my opinion, and you can call me a moron or naive if you like. But I don't care. You're being quite offensive to me, but I don't mind, since it shows we both have strong opinions and we care and there's nothing wrong with that. I won't however be forced to change my mind, I do however, understand to an extent. I'm simply talking about an ideal situation. That is all. I feel like I'm being bludgeoned from all sides. Lol. Maybe I should express myself less severely in future.
> :daisy


i'm not trying to bludgeon you, i honestly don't care what other people think, especially on message boards. everyone has an opinion and if all i tried to do in life was correct erroneous statements or faulty logic (which is impossible anyway--people will believe what they like) i wouldn't have time to do anything else.

i live downtown in a major city. there is nothing but concrete and asphalt. a leash and harness would be best but my none of my cats ever adapted well to that concept, plus there are many people walking their dogs (not to mention a lot of traffic) so i'm not convinced it would even be a great idea. occasionally i take them outside in a carrier (besides to the vet) and they seem frightened. there are a lot of buskers on the 16th street mall, (i'm 1/2 block off the mall) and it's noisy.

the statement that no one should have cats if they don't or can't let them go outside has no merit. do you really believe that instead of giving the cats a home and love and attention, they would be better off euthanized? because two of them came from shelters and that's what would have happened to them.

i don't care if people want to let their cats outside in their yards, but i have more than a few friends who let their cats go in and out at will and almost all of them have had at least one cat disappear, so who knows what happened to them? there are parasites, cars, big dogs, coyotes, mountain lions (okay there aren't mountain lions in denver  but they commonly go inside the city limits in boulder, not very far from here. quite a few cats and small dogs have ended up as snacks. not a jogger yet, but it's only a matter of time), other cats that like to fight, poison (incidental and intentional), diseases, people with bad ideas who torture and maim stray cats because they're "just cats, get over it," and people who severely dislike (and i can't say that i blame them) other people's cats coming over to take a dump in their flower beds. my best friend lived in a residential neighborhood, and a husky got off his leash and bit her siamese kitten in half. in her yard. in front of her. another friend who lives in lakewood found part of his cat in his backyard, and that was probably a coyote. so, if someone asked me if outside is better, i have to say that i don't think so. 

the name itself, domesticated house cat, kind of says it all. i know there are barn cats, ferals, etc. but it isn't like i'm keeping a snow leopard on a chain in my basement and throwing raw pot roasts down there from time to time.

but feel free to speak your mind and make yourself as unpopular as you like. a lot of times i don't agree with something i read online, or i think it's dumb, but i don't say what i think. yes, it's my opinion, but i don't feel a need to hurt anyone's feelings. there is an audience for what they have to say and me inserting a mean comment for no reason at all is pointless. now, whether or not i respond to a thoughtless or mean (or stupid) remark is something else entirely. the "but (s)he started it," argument is really dumb, because no one has to keep it going. unfortunately, i can't say that i never do that. occasionally, i'm reading things and something jumps out and hits me the wrong way. you have to keep in mind that what you say is recorded in internet history forever (unless a moderator deletes it), so carefully choose your words and what you decide to share, because you really don't know who is reading it. 

just because something is true doesn't mean you have to say it. honesty should never be an excuse for cruelty.


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## dweamgoil (Feb 3, 2010)

amelia100 said:


> I guess I'm learning a lesson here. I'm just so used to being in a country where it's way more common to have outdoor cats. I guess I didn't realise in the US things were different. I think agreeing to disagree would be best however. I didn't mean to offend and I"m sure all your cats are very much loved. That is not at all what I was questioning. I guess it's a case of what we are familiar with at the end of the day.


I thank you for your apology and although I personally was not offended by your statements, I am hoping that those that were can now let this go. Let's go back to agree to disagree as Marie recommended.

There are always people who will rub others the wrong way and in this thread many of us seem to have rubbed someone at some point. Can we all just play nice now?


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## Sinatra-Butters (Aug 9, 2010)

I agree with Dweamgoil, she apologized multiple times, let it go.


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## Arkona (May 7, 2012)

BotanyBlack said:


> When I lived out in the middle of Nowhere USA. I had no problem letting my cats out. I was surrounded by farmland that was well hunted for predators... so I thought. when my cat Sherbert was 8 months old he slipped outside. usually only allowed out during the day. That night I heard the most God Awful screaming right under my window. I flipped on a light in time to see a Bobcat with Sherbert's head in his mouth.. his whole head. I must have startled it because it dropped my cat and ran for it. Sherbert was lucky. even though he was covered in blood, he had remarkably few wounds. just a puncture behind one ear and one on his chin. Needless to say, they never went out without wearing their harnesses again.


I don't know you or your cat, but wow that story made my heart stop. Good thing he was OK!


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## dweamgoil (Feb 3, 2010)

That must have been so frightening!


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