# Medicated Start & Grow chicken feed for litter.



## rivernuts (Apr 12, 2006)

Hi,

Does anyone know if it's ok to use the medicated kind of purina chick feed as litter?

Ken


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## coaster (Dec 1, 2004)

NON-medicated is recommended.


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## CataholicsAnonymous (Dec 4, 2006)

Probably very unlikely that it would be a problem, but I say better safe than sorry. Even if the cats don't eat the feed, they may lick their paws and get a miniscule amount of the additives. 

I ended up buying laying mash (crumbles) because all of the starter feeds offered at my feed store were medicated. But I'm glad I did. The starter feed is much finer and might be dustier and track more. And if you look at World's Best Cat Litter, it is a crumble rather than a fine, crushed corn product. I'm overjoyed, to say the least, with the laying mash!


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## AddFran (Jul 10, 2004)

I am glad to see someone posted this question. I actually just found a feed store that was fairly close to me (about 15 miles, but I'm in NY and it's hard to find a feed store when you live this close to the city) and purchased a 50lb bag of "crumbles". I haven't opened it yet, so I'm not quite sure of the difference in what it looks like, though they did tell me it was more absorbant than the regular feed. 

All their feeds seemed to be medicated with the exception of a pellet type. (pellet type of feed that is...never knew that existed, they told me it was made with pine - so I suspect it may be comparable for those that use that Feline Pine litter)


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## rivernuts (Apr 12, 2006)

Is there a difference between laying mash, layers mash, and crumbles? I'm not sure what I should be looking for.


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## AddFran (Jul 10, 2004)

rivernuts said:


> Is there a difference between laying mash, layers mash, and crumbles? I'm not sure what I should be looking for.


I too am confused by all the names, but I believe that laying mash and crumbles refers to one in the same, but never heard of the layers.


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## CataholicsAnonymous (Dec 4, 2006)

Mash and crumbles are pretty much the same thing and bigger particles than the starter feeds. They are usually made through a heat process that makes them "extruded", and they are more porous. I've never used starter, but I'll bet the crumbles absorb much more quickly and therefore clump better. I know the laying mash I use clumps better than any scooping litter I've used. 

Laying mash, laying crumbles, layers mash --- all names for feed intended for egg-laying hens. 

Normally, the only livestock feeds that are medicated are for young, growing stock (starter or starter/grower feeds). Because of USDA requirements, food animals can't be given antibiotics within so many weeks of slaughter. The same would apply to laying hens, because the eggs must be antibiotic-free.


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## AddFran (Jul 10, 2004)

Ahhhh....*city girl sees the light now* Thank you!! :lol:


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## coaster (Dec 1, 2004)

Elsie, I'm glad you're here. :wink:

You, too, Julie and Ken :lol:


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## AddFran (Jul 10, 2004)

coaster said:


> Elsie, I'm glad you're here. :wink:
> 
> You, too, Julie and Ken :lol:


Is that so? Well then, why is it that I get the tiny-tiny font like you don't want anyone else to know you are saying so???


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## CataholicsAnonymous (Dec 4, 2006)

Aw, quit complaining --- I see you got the big, happy grin and I got the wink that means "yeah, right".


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## rivernuts (Apr 12, 2006)

Went to the feed store today, they had lay mash and krumbles, I asked what the difference was, the guy said lay mash was much finer. I ended up buying Layena by Purina which is krumbles. 

thanks for the replies,
Ken


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## rivernuts (Apr 12, 2006)

I used the chicken feed for a few days and didn't like it, maybe it's the brand but it doesn't seem to clump very well and takes a long time to dry. I switched back to Sweatscoop but might try another brand of chicken feed later on.

Ken


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## AddFran (Jul 10, 2004)

Wow, I was just going to start a new thread talking about how much I LOVE it. Mine is fantastic. Clumps better than the litter I was using and there is no smell when cleaning the litter boxes. I have 4 boxes and 5 cats so this is a huge accomplishment!! LOVE, LOVE, LOVE it. It's been about 4 days and I haven't even had to switch out the litter yet which by now the litter is usually quite yucky and i replace the whole box, but I haven't had to it, just keep scooping and it works so good. 

Do you have a digital camera you could use to take a photo of what you are using? I am curious to see if it looks the same. There seems to be a lot of confusion about which the the "right" stuff. :lol:


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## rivernuts (Apr 12, 2006)

I was using Layena by Purina, which brand are you using?


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## AddFran (Jul 10, 2004)

Crap, I don't know, I tossed out the bag and pick up was yesterday, it was definitely not purina, it was a no-name but it was crumbles (per the guy that owned the feed store) and I picked it up on his recomrtmendation that it was more absorbant and should clump well, unlike the feed I was looking for. It was an a plain brown paper bag with red writing and design on it, but wasn't purina for sure. When I was there I got the impression that this stuff isn't quite considered "feed". The consistency is almost exactly the same as my Swheat scoop.


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## Mysterious (Mar 1, 2007)

yeah what brand is everyone using?

the only kind I can get here is albers and honor


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## CataholicsAnonymous (Dec 4, 2006)

I use Southern States brand. I think it's only available in the eastern U.S., though. I do my feed shopping at Southern States because it's the only one near me that carries Triple Crown horse feeds.


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## Nini (May 6, 2007)

So we should go for laying mash or crumbles, if I understood correctly? I really want to try this, because World's Best is getting too pricey for me with 5 cats to feed and take care of... I tried Swheatscoop but am not too happy with the way it clumps - seems to crumble a lot more than WB, although I have to say that its smell is very pleasant. I just put more in the boxes, to see if it clumps better with a thicker layer... we'll see.

But I would love to know for sure what to get from the feed store whenever I run out!


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## AddFran (Jul 10, 2004)

CataholicsAnonymous said:


> I use Southern States brand. I think it's only available in the eastern U.S., though. I do my feed shopping at Southern States because it's the only one near me that carries Triple Crown horse feeds.


Do you know the coloring of the packaging the Southern States brand comes in?


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## CataholicsAnonymous (Dec 4, 2006)

It's a white bag with some orange striping; it has a hen and some baby chicks on the front. 

As far as I know, Southern States feed is sold only at Southern States stores.


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## Mysterious (Mar 1, 2007)

So which one should I use:

http://www.albersfeed.com/Poultry/default.aspx

scratch grains is just corn and wheat.

the layer feed is a bunch of stuff and there's 3 kinds of it.


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## CataholicsAnonymous (Dec 4, 2006)

I'd ask if the Country Layer is a crumbles. If not, the Broiler Starter/Finisher is "Available in a palatable crumbled form". And it's non-medicated.


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## Mysterious (Mar 1, 2007)

CataholicsAnonymous said:


> I'd ask if the Country Layer is a crumbles. If not, the Broiler Starter/Finisher is "Available in a palatable crumbled form". And it's non-medicated.


thats the one I've been using it goes very fast, and after a 2-3 days, it smells like rotting weeds. After a week, the rotting weed smell, permeates the house. I wnet thru 50 pounds of it in a month...which is alot compared to Worlds Best. a 25 pound of worlds best lasted a good 2-3 months. 
My friend who was also using it, had the same problem. So I wonder if its the brand? 

I LOVED it otherwise, but my husband cannot stand the smell and complains about it all the time.


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## CataholicsAnonymous (Dec 4, 2006)

Well, the ingredients may make a difference. I lost the tag from my feed, but I do remember that it was nearly all corn, with vitamins and minerals added. All the Albers poultry feed have a high percentage of wheat middlings (by-products, leftovers, "sweepings" left over from processing wheat into flour; fine particles) and "grain products". Grain products can be just about anything. When a livestock feed lists the actual ingredients (the actual grains and how they were processed), then you can be absolutely sure what you're feeding. Listing "grain products" means that the feed can have any type of grain as long as the analysis (protein, fat, fiber, etc.) are at the levels stated on the package. It also means that the ingredients are likely not the same in every batch. It's called "least cost formulation" --- the feed mill can use whatever grains are cheapest at the time and adjust other ingredients, if necessary, to achieve the stated analysis.

Most of my education was in livestock production, and I would look at Albers as a low-quality feed. Never thought about it not being such a good cat litter, but maybe the quality makes a difference there, too. :?


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## Mysterious (Mar 1, 2007)

I'm betting its the ingreds.

Well This time I have Honor brand..we'll see how this does.
So far its been ok.


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## Mysterious (Mar 1, 2007)

I FIGURED IT OUT!

The kind i got from Cenex(Lake Country brand) is working way better than the other stuff I was using. Albers, is made of low quality grasses...and other stuff...
Lake Country--Honor-- is mostly CORN!  
It clumps better, doesn't break apart, and no weird rotted weed smell. 
Thats the secret--make sure its mostly corn. 

YAY!!


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## AddFran (Jul 10, 2004)

CataholicsAnonymous said:


> It's a white bag with some orange striping; it has a hen and some baby chicks on the front.
> 
> As far as I know, Southern States feed is sold only at Southern States stores.


Nope, they have it here in NY too and apparently it's what I have been using. Must be why we are both loving it!! :lol: I thought the bag I brought home was the color of brown craft paper with red, but that was the one I almost bought. The crumbles I have are from Southern Feeds in a white bag with orange stripes. I'm going to post a photo of the bag and the what the stuff actually looks like in a little while. Maybe it will help the others. 

Here is a link to their site and they have a store locator on the top right corner. Of course, I'd call the store first to be sure they have carry the crumbles. 

http://www.farmerfirst.com/asguide/


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## CataholicsAnonymous (Dec 4, 2006)

Just as I suspected, Sherlock! :wink:


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## Mysterious (Mar 1, 2007)

the closest southern states is to me is Illinois and Kentucky LOL!


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## AddFran (Jul 10, 2004)

*HERE IS THE STUFF THAT WORKS!!*


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## CataholicsAnonymous (Dec 4, 2006)

That's not the one I'm using, but it is made by the same company. Yours appears to be a "game bird" feed, and it has fine-cracked corn in addition to the crumbles; mine is all just tan-colored crumbles. But we now know that they both work very well........and we also know that Southern States makes the best cat litter......they just call it something else. :wink:


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## AddFran (Jul 10, 2004)

Well that's strange because I had never heard of crumbles before and they told me that's what this is called and then today I went and asked for the crumbles and this is what they gave me...which is the same stuff. 

In any case it works GREAT and I never even noticed the mini pieces of cracked corn until you pointed it out. It shows up a lot more in the photo than it does in real life, maybe the flash reflected off of it. In any case I absolutely LOVE it.


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## AddFran (Jul 10, 2004)

Mine appears to be aimed towards ducks and geese. 
Here is a pdf of the different types. Which are you using??
http://www.farmerfirst.com/images/poult ... gguide.pdf

Also, what do you pay for yours? I wonder if there is a price difference. 
Mine was just under $12 including NY tax at 8.625%.


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## CataholicsAnonymous (Dec 4, 2006)

I lost the tag from mine, but it must be the All Grain Poultry Layer/Breeder. SSC has changed the names on their poultry feeds, apparently. When I used to buy laying feed from SSC for my chicken, it was called XLA. That's also what it was called back when I used to work at a Southern States store.

Edited to add: Mine was $10 plus WV tax.


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## AddFran (Jul 10, 2004)

I was noticing for each type of feed there seemed to be a "layer/breeder" I assume this is the crumble version of each? If so, most or all of them would probably work...??


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## CataholicsAnonymous (Dec 4, 2006)

I think the layer/breeder category has more to do with the feed analysis (nutrient levels necessary for egg production) than with texture. But I think we've found that (1) a crumbles form and (2) all corn rather than other 'grain sources' are the key to success as a potty product.


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## AddFran (Jul 10, 2004)

YEP!! :lol: 
Well that was a fun experiment!


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## Mysterious (Mar 1, 2007)

this is what mine(Honor brand) looks like:

slightly used









more fresh:


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## AddFran (Jul 10, 2004)

I think your crumbles look larger than mine, but I see little bits of cracked corn in yours too. 

Is this the one you are liking so far?


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## Mysterious (Mar 1, 2007)

yes its MUCH better!! In one box its been a week, and still no "dead weed" smell; it still smells like corn  

Its a relief not having to clean out boxes every few days.


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## AddFran (Jul 10, 2004)

It's nice isn't it? I love this stuff!


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## Mysterious (Mar 1, 2007)

Another thing I like about it, is that the little tracking there is, the dogs eat it, so I never have to clean it up myself! *grin*


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## AddFran (Jul 10, 2004)

I have noticed that there is not nearly as much tracking as their was with regular scoopable litter. I forgot to comment on that.


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## Mysterious (Mar 1, 2007)

oh most definitely a difference in tracking. 
My friend who was trying the feed out(but it was the Albers kind) she didnt' like it, so she had told me of her "tried and true' best thing that worked for her stuff...Fresh Step regular litter.
So what I did, is i bought a bag of it at Kmart--35 pounds for $11, and poured in equal amounts of each type(using the new Honor brand feed) in separate litter boxes on the same day.
So far both are working equally well with odor control, BUT the fresh step tracks HORRIBLY and it HURTS when you step on it. I can step on the feed crumbles and it doesn't hurt. 
The clay stuff is every where already  It calls for daily clean up and I'm to lazy for that LOL! 

My experiment results so far: 
Honor feed saturday to saturday, no odor at all.
Fresh Step vs Honor feed since Wednesday..no odor at all. But serious tracking with Fresh Step vs minimal tracking with Honor. 

My friend is going to try the Honor and see if it works for her.


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## rivernuts (Apr 12, 2006)

Mysterious said:


> My experiment results so far:
> Honor feed saturday to saturday, no odor at all.
> Fresh Step vs Honor feed since Wednesday..no odor at all. But serious tracking with Fresh Step vs minimal tracking with Honor.
> 
> My friend is going to try the Honor and see if it works for her.


Do you know if most Kmarts carry the Honor brand feed? Which section do you find it in?


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## Mysterious (Mar 1, 2007)

I got the Fresh Step from Kmart.
Honor feed came from Cenex. Cenex is a fuel and farm feed company, mostly found in the NW region.

What you need to look for is a feed that is mostly or all corn.


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## AddFran (Jul 10, 2004)

Mysterious said:


> What you need to look for is a feed that is mostly or all corn.


It also has to be crumbles, not whole corn or cracked corn...I've seen some feeds that are mostly kernels of corn and that's no good either.


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## Mysterious (Mar 1, 2007)

ahh yes...make sure its mostly GROUND corn  
the ingreds in my stuff:
Ground Corn, Dehulled soybean meal, Corn distillers dried grains, ground wheat, canola meal, wheat middlings, the rest of it is vitamins and stuff. 


BTW........
My results so far:
Fresh Step clay litter starting to smell funky and one of the boxes has a very slight hint of ammonia smell.
I hate the mess also and I'm not using it anymore. 

Honor feed: still smells fresh and still smells like corn. no ammonia smell at all.


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## Mysterious (Mar 1, 2007)

Final results. Fresh Step LOST peeeewwwww!!! 
The feed is still going strong!


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## AddFran (Jul 10, 2004)

Yep, still loving mine too! Woo hoo!


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## AddFran (Jul 10, 2004)

Hmm, so I went and bought my crumbles yesterday and I was charged $15 for the 50lb bag. (Still cheaper than cat litter, but that's 3 bucks more than before). So, I said something and we came to the conclusion that I was being charged for Layena Crumbles before. They didn't have any of those for me to try, but was that the one that someone tried and hated? 

This is so confusing to me. Apparently the crumbles I buy are "starter feed" which seems to be more expensive. 

Any suggestions for a feed that would still be crumbles but not have the protein content in it that ups the price?? :wink: My kitties don't care about the protein when they are wizzing on it! :lol:


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## rivernuts (Apr 12, 2006)

Yes Layena doesn't work too well, I think you need to find a corn based feed and I think the Purina products aren't.

Ken


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## AddFran (Jul 10, 2004)

Alright, mine is currently corn based and works fantastic. So I guess I'll stick with it, but what a bummer that it's not quite as cheap as I originally planned. Sure beats the price of 50 lbs of litter though!


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## -Ann- (Jun 30, 2006)

I'm going to try this out now. I'm all for using natural stuff rather than all that clay litter. I believe there's a feed store just down the road from me. I'm going to check it out tomorrow and see what they've got. I've read the whole thread and made a cheat sheet so I know what to look for. :lol:


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