# Seriously considering...



## Heather102180 (Nov 19, 2003)

I am seriously considering putting Oliver to sleep. I can not handle his devil ways anymore. I am at my wits end. He attacks me too much and I can no longer handle it. I'm done, I'm through. He is over 1 year old now and shouldn't be this way. I can not handle him anymore. I've tried everything. I love him so much but absolutely can not deal with him anymore. I can not even walk up my own stairs without him attacking that leaves welts and brusies and scares all over my arms and legs. He just got my entire shoulder and face and I've had it. Has anyone had a cat put to sleep due to unruley behavior. I love him to death but can NOT deal with this anymore.


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## RarePuss (Jun 16, 2004)

I remember your post on the cat furniture, i didn't post an answer because i knew buying furniture wouldn't solve the problem. If you can't handle it, i's suggest placing an ad on petfinder or in your local paper, truthfully detailing his problems. I BET YOU you'll get called wanting him, there's always people out there who have the time and patience to work with a troublesome animal.

You can give it a last try, if you want, but again, some cats just have a temper that you either learn to live with or you don't. Play therapy is always suggested, also these plastic claws you glue on your cat, they'd help a LOT.. and stay on for at least 2-3 months. That way, even if he lunges, he can't scratch. Does he bite?

Don't be upset, sometimes things dont' work out. It's sad, but it's life


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## malcolmsmom (Jun 18, 2004)

I agree with RarePuss that you should try to find Oliver a home if you have decided he is too much to handle. 

I haven't had any problems with troublesome behaviour yet so I don't know what advice I can offer. Have you tried things to get him to change his behaviour? 

And like RarePuss said too I wonder if the soft claw or paws (can't remember the name) would be helpful in this situation.

Is it only you he attacks or others too?


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## Heather102180 (Nov 19, 2003)

Biting is the problem. He lunges with his opened fanged mouth. I do have the patience and I do have the time, he just has always been like this since day one and I've had him since he was about 6 weeks old. He has some toys and I direct him to those when I can but once he gets in attack mode, there is no stopping him. I don't want anyone else to have him and possibly abuse him because of his own abusive behavior. If his claws were the problem, then I'd be able to deal with that....it is his teeth. Seriously, can a vet pull them out and I put him on wet food the rest of his life? I would do that in a heartbeat if that were an option. And I am sick of people saying I let him get away with his behavior. I do not at all. I yell, I hold him down (as much as I can) and I've just tried everything. I go on vacation this Thurs-Sun and I am giving my mom permission to take him to get him put to sleep. I'm sure I'll go to **** for it but I am at the end of my rope.


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## RarePuss (Jun 16, 2004)

Heather102180 said:


> I go on vacation this Thurs-Sun and I am giving my mom permission to take him to get him put to sleep. I'm sure I'll go to **** for it but I am at the end of my rope.


Oh NO... don't do it on a whim!  Putting a pet to sleep is horrible, and it's worse when you did it to a healthy animal  It's Karma, it will come back to you. If you lived with him for a year, why not do it for another month or so while you try to find him a new loving home - trust me, when you REALLY exaust all possible ways to solve it, then you can safely say "Well, i did ALL i could". :x


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## Heather102180 (Nov 19, 2003)

THere is no one on earth that I would want to have my Oliver. No one would ever put up with him as much as I do. I assume dogs are much easier to train. I can not train Oliver. I've done everything. I suppose I could keep him in my unfinished basement and keep his food and water down there too and make him a nice home down there....

No, it's not only me he attacks, he attacks everyone...he'll be purring so loud while you pet him and then in a split second, his ears go back, his face in a triangular position, and looking like an owl. He then attacks. It really is the worst thing ever. Have you see the picture in my photogallery of what he did to my sister? How can he be purring one second and attacking the next? I honestly do NOT understand it one bit.


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## Heather102180 (Nov 19, 2003)

> If you lived with him for a year, why not do it for another month or so while you try to find him a new loving home


And I just do want to clarify that he _is_ in a very very loving home right now. I love him more than anything and anyone who knows me would tell you that. :wink:


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## RarePuss (Jun 16, 2004)

Heather102180 said:


> Seriously, can a vet pull them out and I put him on wet food the rest of his life? I would do that in a heartbeat if that were an option.


I seriously think no vet will allow you to pull such a stunt.





Having your mom put him to sleep is frankly immature, this is your cat and your ultimate responsibility. Why does your mom have to deal with the terrible feelings of doing the 'dirty' work for you??? :x

I'm going to stop for now, this is just making me upset


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## Heather102180 (Nov 19, 2003)

This is not a "stunt". I am really sorry I posted this. It was right after he completely attacked my *face * to where I have bleeding claw and teeth marks on it and I have to go to a wedding next weekend and meet my bf's parents for the first time which I am already stressed enough about, looking like this! I highly doubt I would ever put him to sleep because of this. I am just completely upset and I figured I could vent on the cat forum. I posted a well thought question about cat furniture awhile ago and have had 34 views and 0 replies so I figured no one would reply to my recent post either. 

I don't want anyone to think I am inhumane. I was caught in the moment of unbelievable stress and confussion.










I could not bring myself to do anything with him like that but need help on what I should be doing to turn his behavior around.


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## malcolmsmom (Jun 18, 2004)

Have you talked to your vet about his behaviour?? sometimes cats can be put on medication for anxiety etc Maybe they could help you help Oliver to change his behaviour?? Or hormone room stuf like Feliaway??


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## jonsgirl (Nov 7, 2003)

Heather why not try looking for a no-kill shelter in your area that can maybe work on his aggressiveness and find a new home for him for you? If you say you truly love little Ollie then why do you want to have a vet kill him when he is perfectly healthy? I honestly didnt know you were having those problems with him, I dont think you have ever posted about this before.

Whatever happens, if you do decide to go with euthanizing him, I really hope you do not get another animal. This is just my opinion and I hope you have a change of heart. 

EDIT: to add that I was typing this when you hadn't responded to RarePuss yet. Understandable if you were emotional at the time and didn't mean to post this...


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## Heather102180 (Nov 19, 2003)

Some people say walk away as soon as he attacks and some say to fight back and hit him (which I think is wrong) and hold him down. I get conflicting advice.


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## Heather102180 (Nov 19, 2003)

Stix owner-I have posted a few times about his behavior but just recently. Also, don't recall who posted about asking the vet for anxiety medicine for him but that does sound feasable. I would love to give that a try.


Oh and here is the picture I was talking about...


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## malcolmsmom (Jun 18, 2004)

Heather102180 said:


> Also, don't recall who posted about asking the vet for anxiety medicine for him but that does sound feasable. I would love to give that a try.
> 
> That was me. I am sure there are some good articles out there on this topic. Maybe Dr. Jean will see this and have some advice?


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## malcolmsmom (Jun 18, 2004)

I found this....



> If you live in area in which a veterinary behaviorist practices (usually big metropolitan areas or near veterinary colleges) it would be worthwhile to consult with a behaviorist. Extreme aggression directed towards people is best treated by someone who can evaluate the possible physical causes and who is familiar with the possible psychological problems as well. Physical causes include problems such as chronic pain, ischemic damage in the brain and some neurologic defects. Psychological problems include extreme anxiety, redirected aggression, fear and several other potential problems. If a cause can be identified, either physical or psychological it is easier to predict whether or not treatment will be beneficial and obviously easier to choose the treatment plan most likely to work.


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## lapchern (Jun 9, 2004)

if my cat were like that, i dont think i could put up with that also if she were to hurt all my family members... cats have a mind of their own and your cat could be one of those rare cases of overaggressiveness...

the best solution other than keeping your cat would be to put her at an adoption place or no kill shelter... maybe time away from humans would get her to change her ways when she gets adopted by a new owner *shrugs*


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## Richo (Jul 4, 2003)

I realize his behavior is extreme compared to many. Barnaby doesn't like to play with toys but he always liked to chase my feet and latch on and bite. A second cat gave him an outlet for his play aggression where now they can chase, wrestle and bite each other. Even if another cat were an option, Oliver may be too aggressive and hurt the other cat.

It sounds like an extremely difficult situation.


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## Luftballoons (Jul 27, 2004)

My cat was much the same way as yours. It's taken a while, but he rarely bites to hurt me anymore. When you say "nobody will put up with him like you do", you're wrong. I also have a cat with some severe behavioural problems, and I put up with it because I love him and promised to protect and care for him.

If you cannot put in the time/effort with him, find him a new home or take him to a no-kill shelter. Don't simply kill him.


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## catnip (Aug 19, 2003)

This is awful. I had seen your cat furniture post but couldn't really offer any advice but had no idea things were this dire. This may be a stupid question but is he neutered? I really don't think any vet would put down a healthy cat just for bada$s behavior. I'm sure something can be done. As someone else suggested, maybe exposure to another cat or animal may bump him down a few notches, maybe not. Maybe Paxil or Prozac can help? :?


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## mizzkitty (Jun 13, 2004)

My cat is also a lil bit on the crazy side...he is constantly wanting to play..chases after me to attack my legs (that is what HE consides play)....when i hold him..he bites my fingers....he just today ruined the keys on my laptop...breaks things.... but i would NEVER be able to put him to sleep...what i love about him is what others hate...i love the fact that he isnt a typical cat...he is always hyper...runs around...and the biting i just dont let him think im playing with him i dont move my finggers..i just hold it sill and he lets go..but its hard to teach him a lesson as you said you have also tried...i have had scratches and other things but i still love him because of how he is...please dont put your cat to sleep..if you love him...you wouldnt put him to sleep..and if you cant see him with anothr owner besides yourslef, then how are able to think about putting him to sleep? i think you'll feel much better knowing you gave him to a good owner then to know you put him to sleep for no reason good enough..try all you can..TRUST ME...you'll regret it if you dont.


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## Misty (Nov 14, 2003)

I'm going to live life dangerously and jump to Heather's defense. I'm NOT agreeing with putting him to sleep, I could never do that but I've a feeling this was a thread started in the spur of the moment on a bad day where you sat typing with tears (and blood by the sounds of it) running down your face. 
Why not do a web search for some natural help, perhaps some sort of anxiety release stuff. Or a feliway diffuser like suggested. 
Try burning sandlewood and ylang yland in a diffuser(supposed to sothe kitty)
I'd talk to my vet to and let him/her know just how much you are at your wits end with this. If they are a decent vet then surely they must have some advice. 
Let us know how it goes.


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## AddFran (Jul 10, 2004)

Heather, 
I'm not going to say anything that puts you on the defense. I think you are obviously upset and the last thing you need is someone else charging at you. 

I did just want to say one thing. I am also in Illinois, so if you DID reach the point where you were going to put Oliver to sleep, I'd be willing to come get him. I know you said you don't want anyone else to have him, but ending his life is NOT a better alternative. It's also a selfish thing to say, which at times we all do. It's very similar to not wanting to put our animals down (when they are sick) because we love them so much and don't want to let them go. Ultimately, you have to make the decision that is in their best interest. 

If it comes to that point, please contact me. Keep your chin up. I know you love him. The way you talk about him here on the forum makes that perfectly clear! Plus, Franny would be really upset if she found her cousin isn't around anymore! :wink:


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## Heather102180 (Nov 19, 2003)

Thanks for all the advice guys. It's morning and he's up here being his normal purring self. He'll get into attack mode later when he's bored. 

I also thought getting another cat would help him settle down. We have brought in other cats and he likes them and tries to play soooooooo here's what I might do. I have 3 more cats that live at my parents house. I might bring one of them over on a trial basis. They all have their claws as does Oliver so if they play/fight, they can defend themselves. Of course I would monitor them at all times until things were comfortable in the house. I am also going to consult with my vet as well as my sisters bf who is a vetranarian. I think putting Ollie on medicine might me a great idea. Thanks!

Frannie--where at in Illinois?


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## queen of the nile (Aug 16, 2003)

I really think you need help in this situation, Heather. It has obviously escalated past the point that you can personally control. Have you talked to a vet about his behaviour? Are there animal behaviourists in your area? There comes a point where you need professional help with a situation, and this is it. I sorry that you are going through all this frustration and stress.


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## AddFran (Jul 10, 2004)

He's soooo darn cute! 
I think trying out another cat in the house is a great idea. Make sure you take the time to do the introduction properly though! Oliver may not seem to scared, but the other cat being taken from it's home may not see it that way. Also, the medicine may help. 

Heather, I'm in Chicago.


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## Misty (Nov 14, 2003)

I hope everything works out. Let us know how everything goes.



> I am also going to consult with my vet as well as my sisters bf who is a vetranarian


On a lighter note I read this sentence and couldn't work out how that would help you in any way as cats are carnivores. Then I re read it and realised it didn't say vegetarian. Thats what I get for skim reading at times


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## Hana (May 29, 2004)

Oh wow....what a horrible situation.
Please please don't have him put down...I don't think you will, I understand that you must have just been in a really bad state at that moment, especially when I see the picture of the bite mark on your sisters arm, I can't imagine what he did to your face.....

I agree with everyone else, I think some anti-anxiety medication might be something that could help. And a behaviourist. I've never heard of or seen a cat so agressive...and he looks like such an angel in his pictures!!!

I also think a new cat may help out - he obviously needs an outlet of some type.

Where did he come from? I'm just wondering if his past may have had something to do with his behaviour - like, was he from a feral mother? I find those kittens to be more agressive than the non-feral ones.

And, you always have AddFran like she said. Which, by the way AddFran, is so kind of you.

Please let us know how everything goes.


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## Heather102180 (Nov 19, 2003)

Ok, you might think I'm stupid but I've always wondered what "feral" and "unferal" meant....could someone please explain? To answer part of your question, I've had him since he was about 6 months old. My friend found a cat on Easter last year on a farm and brought her home not realizing she was pregnant. She had her kittens last June and she actually named Oliver, "Bruiser" because he was just such a laid back big little kitten (if that makes any sense.) She said that Oliver would just sit back while the other 3 kittens played. And I know he wasn't traumatized in my friends house while she had him for his first 6 weeks so I can't really find a reasonable explanation why he is like this. I've never only raised one cat at a time, so yes, I do beleive he needs another cat to play with instead of playing (attacking) humans. But getting another cat at this time is NOT an option which is why I might bring over one of my cats from my parents house and see how it goes.

And Fran, you aren't getting Ollie! :lol: . But thanks for the offer to help out.


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## spacemonkey (Aug 12, 2004)

The term "feral" simply refers to a once domesticated animal that has returned to a wild state. Dingos, for instance, are feral: they were once pet dogs, but have since become wild. A feral cat is one, like a barn cat or stray cat, that has never been socialized with people and lives like a wild animal would: foraging for their own food and avoiding humans.


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## Lori (Jun 8, 2003)

So sorry to hear you are going though this, Heather. It sounds like you are doing all you can to help Oliver. You have certainly been though a lot already.  You must be very patient.
Best of luck in helping him.


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## AddFran (Jul 10, 2004)

Heather102180 said:


> And Fran, you aren't getting Ollie! :lol: . But thanks for the offer to help out.


Man! You can't blame a girl for trying! Just kidding. I hope everything works out for him right where he is!


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## Mil0Luv3r (Aug 19, 2004)

Heather102180 said:


> I am seriously considering putting Oliver to sleep. I can not handle his devil ways anymore. I am at my wits end. He attacks me too much and I can no longer handle it. I'm done, I'm through. He is over 1 year old now and shouldn't be this way. I can not handle him anymore. I've tried everything. I love him so much but absolutely can not deal with him anymore. I can not even walk up my own stairs without him attacking that leaves welts and brusies and scares all over my arms and legs. He just got my entire shoulder and face and I've had it. Has anyone had a cat put to sleep due to unruley behavior. I love him to death but can NOT deal with this anymore.


I don't know if im to late to answer but here is what you REALLY should do...

Never put a pet to sleep just drop him/her off at a Adoption Center my cat sprapyed but I didn't put him down he got a new home! NEVER EVER put a Pet down inless its well rabid or something that serios.. Or if it is seriously ill!

I signed up just to answer this question!


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## queen of the nile (Aug 16, 2003)

I'm sorry, but I have to say this. I apologize if I offend anyone. Do not just drop an animal off at a shelter because of "behavioural issues" like house-soiling, spraying, scratching, whatever. Cats with these sort of issues are routinely euthanized at the "no-kill" shelter that I work at. I think it is unfair to dump your problems onto an animal shelter and hope they can find a home for an "unadoptable" animals.


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## Mil0Luv3r (Aug 19, 2004)

queen of the nile said:


> I'm sorry, but I have to say this. I apologize if I offend anyone. Do not just drop an animal off at a shelter because of "behavioural issues" like house-soiling, spraying, scratching, whatever. Cats with these sort of issues are routinely euthanized at the "no-kill" shelter that I work at. I think it is unfair to dump your problems onto an animal shelter and hope they can find a home for an "unadoptable" animals.


Nearly EVERY adoption center has a room for Cats and Kittens who bit people.. Just because he bit him/her doesn't mean that his behavior can't be changed... When a cat Sprays you can't change that.. Iness he is Neutured... There is alwasy a way besides putting them to sleep!!! If she drops him off they can try to change his behavior.. Think about it if they are able to change his behavior YET she already put him down.. He will never get a new home besides the RB! So she can drop him off they can try they're hardest to change his behavior and if they do he can be re-adopted!!! Now adoption centers don't just have a quarantine for nothing!


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## Mil0Luv3r (Aug 19, 2004)

queen of the nile said:


> I'm sorry, but I have to say this. I apologize if I offend anyone. Do not just drop an animal off at a shelter because of "behavioural issues" like house-soiling, spraying, scratching, whatever. Cats with these sort of issues are routinely euthanized at the "no-kill" shelter that I work at. I think it is unfair to dump your problems onto an animal shelter and hope they can find a home for an "unadoptable" animals.


And oh ya if the can change the behavior then they can put up for Adoption!!!!


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## Heather102180 (Nov 19, 2003)

If someone could tell me how to change his behavior I'd like to know. It's easier said then done. I plan on talking to my vet soon about it. Hopefully he can prescribe him some medicine. Anyone have an idea of how much a consultation like that would cost? Any idea on cost of meds too?


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## queen of the nile (Aug 16, 2003)

Heather, I wish I had some answers with you. Just keep your chin up and I'm hoping for the best.

*Mil0Luv3r*: If you are unable to treat the behavioural problem, it is very unlikely that a shelter will be able to. Most shelters don't have the time or staff to treat these sort of problems. Where I work, these cats are simply euthanized. Your home is a much better place for recovery, because you can devote much more time and effort. You also have many more tools at your disposal (ie: medical checkup for house-soiling, or seeing an animal behaviourist for other issues). Animal shelters don't have the time or money to provide these types of treatments. Also, cats have less chance for recovery at shelters because they may be stressed out by the cramped conditions or presence of other animals. An cat that sprays to mark its territory isn't going to stop when it is sharing it's turf with 100+ cats :roll: . In conclusion, I think taking cats with behavioural issues to shelters is both short-sighted and irresponsible. If you disagree, that is fine, but you certainly will not change *my* mind about the matter.


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## Mil0Luv3r (Aug 19, 2004)

queen of the nile said:


> Heather, I wish I had some answers with you. Just keep your chin up and I'm hoping for the best.
> 
> *Mil0Luv3r*: If you are unable to treat the behavioural problem, it is very unlikely that a shelter will be able to. Most shelters don't have the time or staff to treat these sort of problems. Where I work, these cats are simply euthanized. Your home is a much better place for recovery, because you can devote much more time and effort. You also have many more tools at your disposal (ie: medical checkup for house-soiling, or seeing an animal behaviourist for other issues). Animal shelters don't have the time or money to provide these types of treatments. Also, cats have less chance for recovery at shelters because they may be stressed out by the cramped conditions or presence of other animals. An cat that sprays to mark its territory isn't going to stop when it is sharing it's turf with 100+ cats :roll: . In conclusion, I think taking cats with behavioural issues to shelters is both short-sighted and irresponsible. If you disagree, that is fine, but you certainly will not change *my* mind about the matter.


Just because where you work puts them to sleep doesn't mean there isn't a Adoption Center near her that will take it in!!! And a cat that sprays you can't stop but a cat with a behavior problem can be stopped!! And you won't change my mind about the matter either.. I handled 41-50 cats when I was 4! I know what I'm talking about!




Heather102180-
There is training you could do or hire someone to do or..
Go to the Vet and talk about it.. 

And when he does it does he get well a whoopin?


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## Heather102180 (Nov 19, 2003)

> And when he does it does he get well a whoopin?


Well I don't know what you consider a "well whooping." I don't beleive in or like to hit animals....I admit though last night I contacted his face/head two times during the major attack that sparked this thread in the first place. I think there is a line you can cross though to where it is abuse....and I did not abuse him by any means. It's hard to "fight back" with him because he wins. He is very very vicsious. And walking away is next to impossible too because he latches on with his fangs. It's scary. That's why I asked for advice. 

I don't know if hiring someone to train him would actually work either. If he's trainable and someone told me how to do it, I would want to do it myself.


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## malcolmsmom (Jun 18, 2004)

Heather,

I don't know how much medication would cost for Oliver. Dr. Jean might have an idea of what would be good for Oliver.

I found some flower remedy products....

http://www.carefreepet.com/cat_care.html

I don't have any experince with them though



> Spraying Flower Remedy 1/2 oz.
> Amira's Spraying Flower Remedy is a great tool for cats who *exhibit the impulse to continue doing wrong, even after punishment.*
> 
> Jealousy Flower Remedy 1/2 oz.
> ...


Edit* some info to read about different drugs http://www.pethelp.net/meds.html


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## spacemonkey (Aug 12, 2004)

I'm going to back *queen of the nile* up here and say what an incredibly irresponsible thing it would be to expect a shelter to deal with this. If a cat is that aggressive, they will not devote any more time and energy than an owner would, and the cat will most likely be put to sleep. Stressful for the cat, stressful for the shelter workers = lose/lose situation.

*Heather*, I continue to wish you the best of luck in this extremely difficult situation. I know you love Oliver, despite was is going on, and you want only what would be the best for him. Good thoughts and prayers for you and your kitty.


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## Ioana (Jul 12, 2003)

Phew! what a rascal Oliver is :twisted: .
From what I see here, he needs playtime and attention where your body is nowhere near him! Getting another cat will also add up to more things to do for him and re-direct him to a positive sort of play.
But as already stated, Oliver is not the usual case where a kitty can be simply taught how to play with toys and not with your arms, legs and worse - face. So extra help is crucial

Has Dr. Jean seen this thread? I am sure she will recommend not only flower essences but also an expert behaviorist in such cases for you to contact.

Good Luck with all of this - as you can see everybody will help as much as they can to see your Ollie stay with you for the looongest time  .

p.s. As for your question on what feral means : 
-feral cats have never had human contact therefore they are weary of us/ as opposed to stray cats that have once been owned by humans but lost or abandonned at some point in time.


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## Padunk (Oct 20, 2003)

Heather, I've been thinking about this and I'm really starting to think Ollie would do better in a multi-cat household. I believe that you've mentioned that he's been friendly with other cats, so I think he'd really do well if he were able to focus his play-aggression on a friend. I doubt he'd really hurt them, you should see the things my cats do to each other when they're wrestling... if they did that to me, I'd surely be bloodied and bruised.

That being said, I think the flower essence/medicinal idea is definitely worth investigating, and I'm glad you're going to. However, if it fails, is it possible that your parents could adopt him into their multi-cat household?

Please keep us updated, and good luck.


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## Luftballoons (Jul 27, 2004)

Asserting my dominance over my aggressive cat has helped us, and is what my vet suggested after seeing his behaviour.....he was horrible while in to be neutered/declawed (unfortunately, the aggression issue also forced me to front-declaw after he refused to use a scratching post or other alternatives), he bit and scratched the staff and gave a vet assistant a scar on her hand. 

So to "assert my dominance", when he bit me I would grab him by the scruff of his neck and shake him, with my other hand supporting him so that it was uncomfortable for him but not painful. I'd also assume a dominant body posture over him, make "big" noises, things like that. If he calmed down and licked me or let me pet him, I'd speak softly and loosen my hold on him which helped him calm down. After about 20-30 minutes of this he would start to test me, giving me one hard bite and then stopping/switching to licking to see how I would react.

I got cut up pretty badly the first night, but within a couple days things were vastly improved. He still bites me sometimes, but nothing like he did before. After trying lots of other things, this seemed to work; he understood it, perhaps, and our relationship is very much improved. Most of the time, he now licks or nibbles where he once would have bitten hard or scratched.

When around people he doesn't see often, like my mother, he is still very aggressive......it's as though he knows I'm the "Boss" but when my mom tries to play with him or hold him, he figures "I'm dominant here" and is very aggressive. It's kinda the next challange I need to tackle with him, though my mom doesn't help any by purposefully annoying him and trying to make him angry :evil: . If you try this, wear thick clothing (jeans and tough shirt) and maybe even welding gloves while you are around him. With Mammers he improved significantly after the first night of me doing this, and though I have to "remind" him once in a while this usually takes less time than it did in the beginning. Your cat needs to know that he can't do this to you, if he is in fact doing it because he thinks he's Boss.

With time, patience, and being willing to do what it takes you can get the behaviour at least to a tolerable level. I don't know if your cat is aggressive for the same reasons as mine, but your vet might have an idea. I'm glad I took in my cat and am able to help him with his issues so he can have a happier life. The other cats we have may have been much easier to get along with, but I'm glad I have Mammers and not someone who is impatient or mean.

As far as him being better with more cats......I think it depends on why the cat is being aggressive. Mammers likes other cats, but his "playing" with them is very aggressive and painful/distressing for the other cats we have. Maybe trying play therapy will help tell you what the problem is; if the cat is less aggressive after lots of interactive play and exercise, you may have success giving him playmates. Unfortunately, this wasn't the case with my cat......he could be panting so loud you could hear him in the next room, and he'd still bite you.


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## AddFran (Jul 10, 2004)

spacemonkey said:


> I'm going to back *queen of the nile* up here and say what an incredibly irresponsible thing it would be to expect a shelter to deal with this. If a cat is that aggressive, they will not devote any more time and energy than an owner would, and the cat will most likely be put to sleep. Stressful for the cat, stressful for the shelter workers = lose/lose situation.


I wasn't going to respond to this, but just couldn't help myself. I completely agree with spacemonkey and queen of the nile. You can't just decide one day, ooh my cat is spraying too much and dump him off at the nearest shelter. That is NOT what they are there for. It's quite possible that there may have been a very specific reason for your cat to be spraying and maybe even a medical reason. And, if your cat with the spraying problem found a good home, then why couldn't he stay at yours? If he was considered adoptable and some one else took him in, then maybe that was NOT really a good reason to bring him to a shelter. Shelters are NOT dumping grounds for people that decide they are fed up with their pets one morning. 

And, I haven't been able to find who put that down about giving a cat a whoopin' or whatever they called it, but THAT is disgusting and who ever said that should not own any animals. Maybe it was posted by a troll and I missed that.


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## MA (Mar 30, 2004)

I don't have anything to add as far as advise goes. I know you are in a extremely difficult position but through it all, it still shows that you DO love Oliver. (He's heck a cute and I love grey tabbies!) I wish you luck and hope that everything turns out for the better.


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## Heather102180 (Nov 19, 2003)

I won't pawn Oliver off to someone at a shelter. They would have less time to deal with him then even I have. I do agree with whoever said that he might be better in a mutli-cat home. My mom likes Ollie but I don't think I could pawn him off on her either. She already has three cats which is three too many in her opinion. I'm still debating bringing one of those cats to my house to live with Oliver. Yesterday (the day after the last attack) he was pretty mellow...although I did keep my distance from him at night (which is when he usually attacks.) I might take him home today to the other three cats and see if they can shape him up!! :lol:


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## Mil0Luv3r (Aug 19, 2004)

Heather102180 said:


> > And when he does it does he get well a whoopin?
> 
> 
> Well I don't know what you consider a "well whooping." I don't beleive in or like to hit animals....I admit though last night I contacted his face/head two times during the major attack that sparked this thread in the first place. I think there is a line you can cross though to where it is abuse....and I did not abuse him by any means. It's hard to "fight back" with him because he wins. He is very very vicsious. And walking away is next to impossible too because he latches on with his fangs. It's scary. That's why I asked for advice.
> ...


 I don't like giving my Pets whoopins but if he does this put him in a room for the day.... Put his water food and litter in the room but make sure he doesn't have any toys because he we be in like a time out.


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## Mil0Luv3r (Aug 19, 2004)

AddFran said:


> spacemonkey said:
> 
> 
> > I'm going to back *queen of the nile* up here and say what an incredibly irresponsible thing it would be to expect a shelter to deal with this. If a cat is that aggressive, they will not devote any more time and energy than an owner would, and the cat will most likely be put to sleep. Stressful for the cat, stressful for the shelter workers = lose/lose situation.
> ...


I dropped my cat of because we rent NOT own!!!!!!!!!!!! And we were throwing inleast 10 items a day out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND shall I go on??!?!?! we couldnt afford him spraying everything we own!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In least I didn't put my cat down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And my cat Spraying is MY BUSINESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1


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## Mil0Luv3r (Aug 19, 2004)

AddFran said:


> spacemonkey said:
> 
> 
> > I'm going to back *queen of the nile* up here and say what an incredibly irresponsible thing it would be to expect a shelter to deal with this. If a cat is that aggressive, they will not devote any more time and energy than an owner would, and the cat will most likely be put to sleep. Stressful for the cat, stressful for the shelter workers = lose/lose situation.
> ...


And oh ya!!! A male cat sprays!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh its going to be a medical reason NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We wasn't fixed he was adopted the same day dropped off stay out of my business!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Juli (Jan 23, 2004)

Don't post your embarrassing business if you want people to stay out of it. When you post it on a public message board, you are inviting people to get into your business. 

The majority of male cats do not spray, and with a bit of work the cat could have easily been helped. It's no excuse for taking an animal to a shelter.


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## Heather102180 (Nov 19, 2003)

Hw can you ask people to "stay our of your business" when you post your "business" in the first place.....People on this forum are very opinionated so no one is trying to target you directly. Just realize that we all have different views. Posting with tons of "!!!!!!" seems a little drastic......

Anyways, I took Oliver home again today. He hissed and growled a little at the other cats but seemed way more interested in the house itself. Kinda wierd.


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## RarePuss (Jun 16, 2004)

Heather102180 said:


> Hw can you ask people to "stay our of your business" when you post your "business" in the first place.....People on this forum are very opinionated so no one is trying to target you directly. Just realize that we all have different views. Posting with tons of "!!!!!!" seems a little drastic......
> 
> Anyways, I took Oliver home again today. He hissed and growled a little at the other cats but seemed way more interested in the house itself. Kinda wierd.


Heather, sorry for being harsh in the beginning, i think as your tempers flared after being attacked by Oliver, so did mine after you expressed yourself so strongly on the forum about possibly putting him down :wink: 

In any case, as i've read other responses, and a multi-cat household seems like a good try, you may not know or have the heart to punish Oliver for his bad behaviour, but another cat will most definitely show Oliver what is 'good behavior' in the cat community and what is not. Plus, it's a great way to exercise and get some of the aggression out on the cats - who CAN and WILL protect themselves, and not you 

Keep us updated on how that's working out for you


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## drjean (Jan 6, 2004)

Hi all, hope it isn't too late, I was offline for a long time due to my crazy schedule and workload and am just getting caught up.

First of all, Heather, hang in there, this behavior *can* be solved. It will not happen instantly, and it will require patience and persistence on your part, but it can be done.

You said that you have "not let him get away with this" by holding him down or yelling at him. Unfortunately, these responses will only increase his aggression. I don't know who gave you this advice, but it is totally incorrect; which is why it has not solved the problem!

To whoever said: "So to 'assert my dominance', when he bit me I would grab him by the scruff of his neck and shake him." I remember that someone posted something like this before on this forum, and it is very bad advice. This type of "alpha" or "dominance training" is precisely why dog bites and dog aggression have exponentially increased in this country, and it is even more so the wrong thing to do with a cat. I suspect that this cat responded because the owner so terrified him that he will not make another wrong move. It is certainly not the way to foster a loving relationship with your cat. The last person I saw who tried this was bloody from head to foot, a lot like Heather! Using violence to stop violence never works in the long run. It's like waging war to achieve peace (which doesn't seem to be working anywhere in the world either!). For a more complete explanation about punishment and cats, please read: http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?a ... tbehavior1

Why Oliver developed this behavior I don't know, but I usually see this type of behavior in cats who were played with roughly as kittens, such as being allowed to "wrestle" and bite their guardian's bare hands or feet. It's cute when they're little, but when they're 15 pounds with 1/2 inch fangs, it definitely ceases to be amusing. Unfortunately, I have had to recommend euthanasia for a few of these cats because they really are unadoptable. It is a very rare shelter that has the money and staff resources to even attempt to rehabilitate such a cat, and even fewer who will risk the incredible liability that they would have by adopting out a known aggressive cat. If it bit someone, the shelter would be responsible and could be sued. I don't know any that would take that chance. 

Therefore, I agree with Queen of the Nile that taking Oliver to a shelter is not appropriate. Because he is unadoptable by most shelters' standards, he will spend his last few days sitting, terrified, in a cold metal cage, until he is euthanized by strangers. If a decision is made that Oliver must die, please have the guts to take him to the vet yourself, and stay with him so that he dies in peace in the company of someone he loves. 

I'm also a little confused at the attitude that no one else can have him. If you don't want him, why wouldn't you accept the offer of a good home? Would you really rather kill him than let him go to a loving home? 

Well, anyway, that's beside the point, let's get down to solving the problem. I am not sure what triggers Oliver's attacks, but here are some articles that will help you understand at least partly why these behaviors develop; and more importantly, how to stop them:
http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?a ... aggression
http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?a ... aggression
http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?a ... w&item=012

Certainly, flower essences can be helpful in calming a cat and retraining unwanted behavior; we offer a number of formulas at www.spiritessence.com. Or if you'd rather "make your own" the Bach flowers vervain, vine and impatiens would be a good place to start. 

Your vet may also be able to work with you to do a short trial of medication. Certainly a vet exam to rule out a medical problem is warranted! 

So, the situation is definitely not hopeless, as long as you are willing to do the work.

Cheers,
Dr. Jean


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## Heather102180 (Nov 19, 2003)

Thanks for the advice Dr. Jean. A number of people (including a vetranarian) told me to "fight back", hold him down, hold the scruff of his neck and show him who is boss. I see that you think this is a bad idea. I'll go at it a different way from now on. 

Does anyone here use those scents and do they work?



> I'm also a little confused at the attitude that no one else can have him. If you don't want him, why wouldn't you accept the offer of a good home?


Just to clarify, i DO want him, just not his behaviors......


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## AddFran (Jul 10, 2004)

> And oh ya!!! A male cat sprays!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh its going to be a medical reason NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We wasn't fixed he was adopted the same day dropped off stay out of my business!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


First you said you dropped your cat off because he sprayed, then you said it was because you were renting and not owning. I don't own my place either so I do see how that is relevant, but in any case I was going by what you yourself posted on this thread. If you don't want anyone to respond then why did you post? 

Sometimes cats DO spray for other reasons such as stress or anxiety (which could be a medical problem) - most cases I've witnessed have just been the male marking territory. However...maybe I am misreading your post above but I think you meant to say "HE wasn't fixed". If your cat wasn't fixed - you probably could have fixed the problem by simply having him neutered.

It's seems that he is probably better off in a different home if you believe in cat "whoopins'" and if you treat him anything like the way you treat people here on the forum. 

I hope that you'll gain more respect for others comments and opinions, otherwise you may want to look for a forum where people talk to each other in a manner of attacking one another. That's not how we do it here and I hope that moving forward we can discuss things in a more adult and civil manner.


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## drjean (Jan 6, 2004)

Okey dokey then, *that* makes more sense! 

Cheers,
Dr. Jean


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## AddFran (Jul 10, 2004)

Heather102180 said:


> Does anyone here use those scents and do they work?


I have a friend that used them and now swears by them. Also, there is a gentleman here on the forum who uses them. He's the one that put up the website for missing kitties. Of the top of my head, i think his username is Roger or roger something. I'll double check.


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## AddFran (Jul 10, 2004)

*Roger Davis*

Try reading through this thread...

http://www.catforum.com/viewtopic.php?p ... ght=#67792


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## Mil0Luv3r (Aug 19, 2004)

Juli said:


> Don't post your embarrassing business if you want people to stay out of it. When you post it on a public message board, you are inviting people to get into your business.
> 
> The majority of male cats do not spray, and with a bit of work the cat could have easily been helped. It's no excuse for taking an animal to a shelter.


WHEN A CAT SPRAYS IT WILL NOT STOP SPRAYING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i HAVE LIVED WITH ALOT OF CATS WHEN I WAS FOUR!! HE WOULDNT STOP SPRAYING IT IS MY BUSINESS WE ARE HELPING HEATHER NOT GETTING TO MY BUSINESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AND IT ISNT EMBARSSING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Mil0Luv3r (Aug 19, 2004)

and if you all can have an opinon on me dropping off my cat for spraying then i can have MY opion about her putting her pet to sleep!


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## Mil0Luv3r (Aug 19, 2004)

AddFran said:


> > And oh ya!!! A male cat sprays!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh its going to be a medical reason NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We wasn't fixed he was adopted the same day dropped off stay out of my business!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> First you said you dropped your cat off because he sprayed, then you said it was because you were renting and not owning. I don't own my place either so I do see how that is relevant, but in any case I was going by what you yourself posted on this thread. If you don't want anyone to respond then why did you post?
> ...


I do not believe in cat whoopins when ever my cat does something bad i just shake my finger at him and tell him "No" or "Bad Boy" and my cat wasn't neutured and sense we rent not own someone lived here b4 us and they must of had a male cat that sprayed and Snickers kept on spraying.. Marking his Territory... And i would discuss things in a more and adult manner if you all just stop telling me what i should of done with Snickers!


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## catobsessed4 (Mar 23, 2004)

Heather102180 said:


> Does anyone here use those scents and do they work?


We use Rescue Remedy on our extremely nervous kitties when they go to the vet, and it calms them down tremendously.

Also, I've used Rescue Remedy on my bunnies - when one went to get neutered and came back, they started fighting A LOT - but a little while after we put Rescue Remedy in their cage, they were getting along wonderfully as usual - so I really think that it works.

(Plus, I've used Rescue Remedy on myself every time I've had to get blood drawn, and it seems to help with keeping me from passing out :lol: )


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## Heather102180 (Nov 19, 2003)

Mt friend said PetCo sells lavender plug in's that are meant to calm cats. Anyone use these? I'd rather do this than putting drops of stuff in Oliver's water....


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## AddFran (Jul 10, 2004)

The scent of lavender is very calming for me! If that helps at all! :wink:


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## spacemonkey (Aug 12, 2004)

We use plug-ins at the shelter called Feliway. They really help to calm the cats down in a stressful environment like the shelter *note* it does not work on all cats, but on most it will have a positive effect.

They have a site: http://www.feliway.com/


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## Payge (May 12, 2004)

> I do not believe in cat whoopins when ever my cat does something bad i just shake my finger at him and tell him "No" or "Bad Boy" and my cat wasn't neutured and sense we rent not own someone lived here b4 us and they must of had a male cat that sprayed and Snickers kept on spraying.. Marking his Territory...


When a male cat reaches sexual maturity and they are not neutered they will spray to mark their territory. What the other posters were trying to tell you was that had you gotten him neutered he wouldn't have sprayed. If your cat Milo is a boy and not neutered please get it done now, as you will only see mre spraying coming from him. 

The most probable reason Snickers got adopted so fast was because the shelter neutered him which caused the spraying to stop. He wasn't a 'bad' cat with behavioral issues, he was doing what came naturally for him. 

The internet, and especially this site, is full of great information on cats. I realise a lot of people have cats and think they are doing everything right, they got them a couple toys, buy them the most expensive grocery store food like Deli Cat, and even have a scratching post. They let them go outside and roam where they are obviously happy to be outdoors playing with bugs and birds. They think immunizations for cats are "Made up by veterinarians to take our money and really not useful or needed" They think neutering or spaying is cruel. They think declawing doesn't hurt. They think theyre cats are disposable once they aren't cute kittens anymore, or if they show any signs of not being a perfectly trained servant whos only function in life is to say "how high" when their owner says jump. 

The reality is these types of pet owners will never be satisfied with their cats. The unneutered males will spray the house top to bottom. The females will come home pregnant. The declawed cat might begin biting, or even stop using the litterbox. The cats let outdoors will get fleas, and infest the carpets with them. The cats fed grocery store food could develop diabetes or worse. Any sign of the cat not being perfect and the owner will dump them, maybe being nice enough to take them to a shelter where they will either get adopted by a family that actually loves them, maybe to be euthanized. Got tired of your cat since it isn't a cute little kitten anymore? No problem, dump it! Theres plenty of adorable kittens in the world to take in for a year and do the same again until they aren't cute anymore than you can repeat the process!

I have held back as long as I could from these types of posts, and i'm not accusing Heather of this, I think she reached out in her time of need to us so we could help her. 

I don't claim to have all the answers when it comes to cats, or anything for that matter, but I do know a lot about how NOT to treat cats, and it wasn't because I was around a lot of cats when I was still drinking out of a sippy cup.


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## Misty (Nov 14, 2003)

Payge...... You go girl!!!


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## Mil0Luv3r (Aug 19, 2004)

Payge said:


> > I do not believe in cat whoopins when ever my cat does something bad i just shake my finger at him and tell him "No" or "Bad Boy" and my cat wasn't neutured and sense we rent not own someone lived here b4 us and they must of had a male cat that sprayed and Snickers kept on spraying.. Marking his Territory...
> 
> 
> When a male cat reaches sexual maturity and they are not neutered they will spray to mark their territory. What the other posters were trying to tell you was that had you gotten him neutered he wouldn't have sprayed. If your cat Milo is a boy and not neutered please get it done now, as you will only see mre spraying coming from him.
> ...


Snickers was kinda our first male cat.. We didn't know we had to neuture him at 6 weeks... We got Snickers from a friend who's cat just had a litter.. Milo we got at an Adoption Center he has the chip, he's been neutured, hes well.. potty trained, and is VERY hyper! He is only 2 months and sense we are living in the same house that Snickers sprayed in and my room Snickers had sprayed in Milo is kinda sniffing around in that area...

And I know he wasn't a bad cat.. Yes the did Neuture him but before we Dropped him off at an Adoption Center we had asked ALOT of clinics, vets, Adoption Centers and they all said that even if he was Neutured he would still spray... Snickers was a great cat I still cry about me having to get rid of him... I was stressed and didn't feel good and had headaches for inlest 2 months.... He had a little white spot above his left eye I called it "The sign of an Angel" because whenever I would cry he would come running into my room... I framed a picture of him.. He also got adopted out so fast because he was REALLY HANDSOME!!! :roll: :roll: :roll:


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## AddFran (Jul 10, 2004)

Mil0Luv3r, If you don't mind me asking, how old are you?


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## Annissa (Dec 9, 2003)

Heather, I'm so sorry I've been away for so long that I missed your thread. Dr. Jean gave some great advice and I hope it works for you. 

*hug*


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## kristi (Sep 19, 2003)

Heather, I'm sorry Ollie is having such terrible behavior problems. Daisy had a terrible adolescence and attacked me several times. Over time, I learned several things:

1. I leave her alone unless she approaches me. 

2. As she got older, she mellowed. She is 4 now and has not attacked me in years. I don't consider a cat really grown until they are over 2. They are still adolescents behaviorally before that.

3. When petting her, I never restrain her in any way. I do not try to hold her. It is her choice to come or go. (I can pick her up once in a while--she gives me a certain sign when she wants that--but I'm very careful about that.)

4. I've learned her body language and voice. I know her "I'm in a bad mood" meow and stances, and her "This is my chair, come closer and I will bite you" look, and I leave her alone when she looks like that.

5. She is much better now that we have other cats. She was an only cat for a year.

I hope some of this helps you. If not, I would try drugs and/or behavior therapy. 

Best of luck.


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## Empath (Jan 23, 2004)

This is just a little reminder that Cat Forum maintains a civility unparalleled elsewhere. We prefer that even when a disagreement is manifest, the response is about the matter itself and not about the people involved. Please think before you post. Ask yourself before clicking that "submit" button, is this about the post, or the poster?.


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## Heather102180 (Nov 19, 2003)

I'm going to do my best to reply about everything that has been said. Thanks for all the advice everyone. Kristi, I too have realized that when Oliver is awake and running around, if he wants positive attetion, he will come to be and I shouldn't go to him all the time. And yeah, I try to tell myself that he's still in the kitten stage and hoefpully will grow out of it.

And this might be a little off topic but I'm just responding to what someone posted ealier about good cat owner vs. bad cat owner:

Could you elaborate on what "grocery store" cat food is? I get Oliver Iams weight loss food from my grocery store. Is this good/bad?? 

And as far as declawing goes, while I've never had a cat of mine declawed before, I can understand why people do have it done. I think a cat would rather have a home and no claws then have claws and no home. So if you have to declaw a cat in order to have them as your pet I can understand it, although I have never had it done to mine. I'm not going to argue that declawing doesn't hurt, I'm sure it does, but so does "de-balling" and we are all for spaying and neutering (for obvious reasons)! 

Also, Oliver is an indoor cat BUT all my cats I grew up with were indoor/outdoor cats and I don't think that makes me any less of a bad cat owner. Our cats were all strays that became pets. They were used to being out and we couldn't stop them from going out so they did. They were fine--they had a permanent home, food, water, and love, and still got to go outside. So if people chose to have their cats go outdoors, I support them. And, Oliver doesn't go outside but I discovered he might have fleas (flea dirt in chin) so this prooves cats just don't get fleas from going outdoors..they can get it while sitting in open windows.

Now back to the whole reason why this post started LOL.... I understand if people think less of me about what I said about Ollie but the truth is, I doubt I'd even get as far as putting him in his cat carrier to actually take him to my vet. He's my baby and I couldn't do that....I just have to realize he's got some major issues and hopefully we can work through them. Thanks again for all the advice!

P.S.-I went to PetCo today and checked out Feliway. That stuff is EXPENSIVE.....$30-50 depending on what type you want and it only last 4 weeks??  I will be looking for cheaper, alternative solutions I guess! :mrgreen:


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## BritChipmunk (Jun 3, 2004)

gosh this topic is just a wildfire with all its emotional responses, eh? 

I'm glad to see that you've gotten less upset and didn't go through with it. I can understand moments of extreme frustration/anger and even though it's tempting to go to drastic measures, I'm always glad that I stopped myself. (just like you did.)

I definitely think taking one of your mom's cats in would be a good idea, especially since she thinks 3 is too many. just make sure to go through proper introduction or else you'll have furs flying.

keep us updated!


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## ForJazz (Dec 30, 2003)

*sings song from Sesame Street* One of these things is not like the other...lalalala.... *cough*Mil0Luv3r*cough*

Anyway Heather -- I had no idea that you were having these problems. I think Dr. Jean had the best advice, as always, and you should print it out and post it all over your apartment. lol. Seriously though -- I know you love Ollie, it really shows. 

If it is something neurological, the only way to help is medical. But if it's just behavioral, then things around your house need to change drastically. I am sure Ollie is loved, but the way that you and other people act towards him needs to change. I'm going to back up everyone else and say that you should make sure Ollie is ALWAYS the one to initiate cuddles and petting -- so he develops trust. Do you have a lot of visitors over? Everyone that interacts with Ollie should know this, otherwise it won't work. Is a 2nd cat not an option because 1 cat is the limit where you live? I think visitors for Ollie if that helps to get his kitty energy out would be great, if possible. Ollie seems like the kind of cat who NEEDS a kitty companion, but that's just my opinion.


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## Mil0Luv3r (Aug 19, 2004)

ForJazz said:


> *sings song from Sesame Street* One of these things is not like the other...lalalala.... *cough*Mil0Luv3r*cough*
> 
> Anyway Heather -- I had no idea that you were having these problems. I think Dr. Jean had the best advice, as always, and you should print it out and post it all over your apartment. lol. Seriously though -- I know you love Ollie, it really shows.
> 
> If it is something neurological, the only way to help is medical. But if it's just behavioral, then things around your house need to change drastically. I am sure Ollie is loved, but the way that you and other people act towards him needs to change. I'm going to back up everyone else and say that you should make sure Ollie is ALWAYS the one to initiate cuddles and petting -- so he develops trust. Do you have a lot of visitors over? Everyone that interacts with Ollie should know this, otherwise it won't work. Is a 2nd cat not an option because 1 cat is the limit where you live? I think visitors for Ollie if that helps to get his kitty energy out would be great, if possible. Ollie seems like the kind of cat who NEEDS a kitty companion, but that's just my opinion.


Inleast I don't sing Sesame Street :roll:


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## RarePuss (Jun 16, 2004)

AddFran said:


> Mil0Luv3r, If you don't mind me asking, how old are you?


I have the same question, and that's why i'm staying away from this thread - it seems pointless to try to teach values or good manners to a teenager. :roll:


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## Payge (May 12, 2004)

My response *was* too harsh and I admit it. And I apologise for it. Sometimes I just get so frustrated with the simple lack of knowledge people have about pets. They get a pet because its "the thing to do"

Heather, I was actually referencing a true story from when I was younger. My in-laws had two cats and a basset hound. They got the cats from a box outside a grocery store, and fed them "deli cat" Its about $4 for a see through cannister of it. One of the cats (who was about 4 at that time) developed diabetes. None of their animals were neutered, all 3 were boys. My father in-law would scream obscenities at the animals all the time, if the cats came home with fight marks, or dirty from going into bushes, if the dog barked during dinner or came near the table since he stank. I'm sure they would have declawed the cats if they had had the money. They didnt want to pay for helping the cat with diabetes so they had the vet euthanize him. Both my in-laws were alcaholics. Once we went over there and I witnessed my father in-law kicking the dog viscously, and I refused to ever go back. I was too scared to speak out to him about it. Later they sobored up, and *surprise* they had money left over each month. So they bought a house, a brand new one. Before they moved in to it though, they had their remaining cat and their dog put to sleep so they wouldn't "stink up the place" :evil: 

Yesterday I went to Petco to get a new teaser toy for the cats, they are constantly breaking the strings on them hehe. While waiting in line a woman behind me started talking about how she had just gotten her cat declawed because her boyfriend was afraid to marry her until he knew his furniture was safe. She went on and on about how the cat had to keep going back to the vet because his paws kept bleeding and the stitches kept breaking. :evil: 

The knowledge that theres probably more people in this world who treat their pets as 'things' without taking the time to learn about them gets me very emotional. I'm not sorry for feeling upset about this, but I *am* sorry about releasing it here on the forum, instead of simply doing what we are all here to do, educating the unknowing.


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## Misty (Nov 14, 2003)

I thinkit's hard to keep a level head sometimes, especially where our babies are concerened. Becuase we are so emtionally attached to our cats (and other pets) we look upon them as our family. I for one consider Cleveland my kid. Hey we're all just human (except the cats, they're a definate higher being  )

Heather, check out Feliway websites. I'm sure I saw one where you could get a Feliway pack with diffuser and spray for cheaper.


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

I appreciate the fact that this subject and the replies evoke strong feelings. However, Empath has made it quite clear that we have a zero tolerance for flaming. Nevertheless, the discussion has degenerated into the volleying of insults. Therefore, I am going to lock this thread. Those who participated in the barrage of insults should consider this a warning. My apologies to those who had something constructive to say. Surely we can discuss serious subjects in a respectful way, even if we strongly disagree with another member's views.


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