# Wellness versus Felidae, and dry versus wet?? Please help!



## Amber in TX (Jul 11, 2005)

Hi,

This is my first post here. I'm so happy that I found this forum. Now for my questions! My cats have been on Science Diet since they were kittens and now they are ages 6 and 7 years old. When ever I ask my vet what is the best food to feed them she says Science Diet. I've been looking around on the internet and have read a few bad things about Science Diet. To make a long story short I'm wanting to try a new cat food and have narrowed it down to two brands unless y'all know of a better brand. The two I've narrowed it down to are Felidae and Wellness. Which do y'all think is the better brand? I like how the Felidae contains holistic & herbal benefits, digestive enzymes, probiotics and antioxidants, vitamins & amino acid chelated minerals. But the Wellnes has great things about it too so I can't tell which is the better brand. My friend feeds her cats Wellness and she speaks highly of it. 

Also my vet says it doesn't matter if I feed my cats wet or dry food but neither cat chews the food they just swallow it whole. I'm thinking this is not the best for their digestive systems and it probably doesn't allow them to get all the nutrients they need. So is it better to feed them wet or dry food? Please forgive me for making my first post so long. I just really need help and I didn't know where to turn. I really appreciate any advice you can give me! Thank you SO MUCH and my kitties thank you too!


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## Meowmie (Jun 4, 2005)

You will hear from many members, so this will just be a short one.
I've been learning about and using nutritional (holistic) healing methods for several decades, so I could never recommend a dry food diet with a clear conscience. 

If your cats are willing to eat canned Wellness and don't get any problems from it, then that's a good choice for them. Of course Pet Guard and Innova would also be good choices. There are other good foods you can experiment with as well, it all depends on how much experimenting you want to do and what kind of food your cats really like. 
Also, for healthy cats it is better to feed more than one brand of food to make sure all their nutritional needs are met. (There is no such thing as the perfect food, some brands have more or less of certain nutrients than others. By offering different brands we can cover all nutritional bases.)

As far as dry food and grains (carbohydrates) are concerned, these articles will give you excellent information. All the information you'll need to make wise, informed choices. 

http://www.blakkatz.com/dryfood.html

http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?a ... w&item=017

http://www.felinefuture.com/nutrition/bpo_ch4.php

http://www.felinefuture.com/nutrition/magnesium.php

http://www.felinefuture.com/nutrition/grains.php


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## Amber in TX (Jul 11, 2005)

Meowmie,

First off thank you for replying. I read those links and wow, they really scared me! I feel like I really need to switch from Science Diet even more than I did before. When you said, "if your cats are willing to eat canned Wellness and don't get any problems from it, then that's a good choice for them" what did you mean by this? Did you mean that Wellness isn't good but if they are willing to eat it then it's ok? Both cats are great eaters and they aren't picky at all. I know you stated that there is no such thing as a perfect cat food but can you give me your opinion on what comes the closest? Is Innova a better brand than Wellness? You didn't mention Felidae, do you not like it? Basically I'm trying to pick your brain, sorry! :wink: I hope you don't mind. I just want my cats to live as long as possible!! Thank you for the help! I have bookmarked all the links for future reference to show to friends. 

P.S. I love your forum name, so cute!


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## Meowmie (Jun 4, 2005)

Okay, let's see. Wellness is a good food, but cats can be allergic to the vegetables and fruits in it, and they can also have digestive problems from these ingredients. 
I've also heard from a few people whose cats didn't have the right low pH on this food and consequently developed struvites.
None of this means that your cats can't do great on Wellness, so don't let this info scare you.

Felidae. God only knows why, some cats get UTIs on this food because for _them_ it doesn't produce the right low pH.
It's an absolutely, totally individual thing, something to be aware of, but do NOT base your food choices on this info. Bad things can happen from _any_ food. 

I don't think Innova is better than Wellness, just different when you look at the ingredients.

I honestly don't know what would come closest to perfect, but I do know that some cats can't or won't eat the "perfect" food, whatever we think perfect may be. That's why it's good to offer several brands if health problems don't stand in the way of that. 

As a general rule it's good to avoid colorings and other unnecessary ingredients because they can cause allergic reactions.

Fish can also cause health problems, so it's wise to avoid feeding fish every day, and it's also wise to feed small amounts only if and when we do. 

I personally hate carrageenan because of the digestive problems it can cause, so for my cats, based on experience, I avoid foods with this thickener. (You will hear from many people I'm sure who haven't noticed any problems from it.)

If you have more questions, go ahead, feel free to ask.


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## Amber in TX (Jul 11, 2005)

WOW, I'm so happy that your so knowledgeable in this area, it really helps! I am just learning! Since you said to ask if I had any other questions....what food/s do you feed your cats and why do you choose them? I really appreciate it! You are so sweet to help me out! Thank you for your time!


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## Zoe&Nuny's Mom (Nov 30, 2004)

I currently feed a mix of Felidae dry and Natural Balance dry. My cats HATE wet food, no matter which ones I try and they are both fine. Wet v. dry is a very controversial subject. My opinion is that Felidae is a better dry food. It is 35.48% protein and only 29.70% carbs. The only grain is brown rice. Wellness is a good wet food, but very high in grains in the dry food. UTI's is really an individual problem with each cat. My cats have never had one. Some cats are just pre-disposed. I have 2 girls and boys are more prone to UTI's. Out of the 2 dry foods, I'd pick the Felidae. Wellness dry actually produces a higher urine pH in both dog and cat food. I've read of others using Wellness dry and the main problem is frequent UTI's.


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## Meowmie (Jun 4, 2005)

> what food/s do you feed your cats and why do you choose them?


Hmmm.... The brands I mentioned (Innova, Pet Guard), plus some Lick Your Chops, Wellness, and some other foods. 
I avoid corn, wheat, corn gluten and wheat gluten. I prefer simple recipes with a relatively short ingredient list and only one grain if the food contains grain. That's about it.


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## RockysMom (Jun 27, 2005)

I fed my girl Science Diet Dry for most of her 14 years. Just recently switched to Wellness which was recommended by her Vet. I feed her Wellness canned. She didn't care for the Wellness dry at all. She would just spit it out. Now she doesn't want any kind of dry food so it is all canned for her. Her favorite is the Wellness turkey. I can tell she gets more excited about her meals now.


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## micp879 (Mar 22, 2005)

Meowmie,
I want your opinion on something. Im all for a wet food diet, especially as far as dealing with carbs and urinary crystals. Lately what has concerned me about wet food is the increasing talk of pop top cans causing hyperthyroidism in cats. Do you think there is any validity to that? From the info Ive gathered on the topic, the study was pretty shallow and flawed, and wasnt exactly thoroughly done. Do you think pop top cans are a problem? Ive been trying to find bigger cans that dont use pop tops, but it isnt always easy. Just wanted your thoughts. I threw this question around a while back, and wanted your opinion on it as well now that your more active on this board. Thanks.


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## micp879 (Mar 22, 2005)

Meowmie,
I want your opinion on something. Im all for a wet food diet, especially as far as dealing with carbs and urinary crystals. Lately what has concerned me about wet food is the increasing talk of pop top cans causing hyperthyroidism in cats. Do you think there is any validity to that? From the info Ive gathered on the topic, the study was pretty shallow and flawed, and wasnt exactly thoroughly done. Do you think pop top cans are a problem? Ive been trying to find bigger cans that dont use pop tops, but it isnt always easy. Just wanted your thoughts. I threw this question around a while back, and wanted your opinion on it as well now that your more active on this board. Thanks.


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## Zoe&Nuny's Mom (Nov 30, 2004)

micp879

I'm not Meowmie, but I did find some info on some sites for you. Apparently, it is still under study so it's not written in stone yet about the relation of pop top cans and hypothyroidism. This is what I found. There's a question to a vet re: that matter.

http://www.vetinfo4cats.com/ctoxin.html ... 20possible %20hyperthyroidism%20%20%20%20correlation

Pop-top cat food cans - possible hyperthyroidism correlation 

Question: Hi Dr. Mike:

Truly - this is one of the very best of your monthly reports. Your openness is welcome - indeed!

Yet, with I have to ask you for an explanation about the "pop top cans"! Please explain? Surely *a* can cannot be responsible for what is happening? Right?

Keep up the great work.

Saludos de méxico,

Charlotte



VetInfo Digest
June 2004


New products and information


Avoid pop top cat food cans?

A study in the March 15, 2004 AVMA Journal (Edinboro, et al.) pointed out a correlation between the use of pop-top cat food cans and the subsequent development of hyperthyroidism in cats. This study merely points out a statistical correlation and doesn't prove that this relationship is certain but if you wish to be cautious about the possibility there is no harm in switching to cans that have to be opened with a can opener. Most cat foods are available in both types of cans, although it may be necessary to buy bigger can sizes to avoid the pop-tops. 


Answer: Charlotte-

When they make pop-top cans they line them with a chemical called bisphenol-A. I think it seals the lid under the pop top. Anyway, this chemical is hypothesized to be the cause of hyperthyroidism related to the use of pop top cans. It isn't used in regular cans that have to be opened with a can opener. Four or five years ago a study of hyperthyroidism showed a correlation between feeding cats canned food and hyperthyroidism. This was further studied in a report published this year (March 15 2004 AVMA Journal) which asked what kinds of cans were used and it was noted that the increase in hyperthyroidism is only in cats fed from pop-top cans. The major difference between the cans is apparently the use of this chemical, so it is thought to be the culprit. Before that is confirmed further study will have to be done, though - and like all these types of studies it is conceivable that something entirely different will be found.

Mike Richards, DVM
6/11/2004 

Look under What causes hypothyroidism?:
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Conten ... &SourceID=

Here's the abstract from the JAVMA:

http://www.electronicipc.com/journalez/ ... 0022240610


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## micp879 (Mar 22, 2005)

Zoe...., thank you for posting that info. I hadnt located any rescent info since the initial study, so I was glad to see something up to date. Ive switched mine over to larger cans of calif natural that arent pop top, so hopefully all will be well. And everyone I applologize for double posting, it was accidental. I mustve clicked "submit" twice or something, I didnt even realize it.


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## Meowmie (Jun 4, 2005)

micp879, 


Well, since you asked.... I have some thoughts on this subject and I’ll try to write them down as best I can.

This is one of the studies I have in my files:
http://www.vet.purdue.edu/epi/felhyp.htm 

There is a sentence in it that has always made me wonder, from day one, who actually financed this study. 


> The risk of hyperthyroidism increased by 15% with each additional year of life. Females cats were at 3 times greater risk than male cats while cats consuming commercial foods from cans, particularly those with easy-open lids, were almost 4 times more likely to develop hyperthyroidism than cats eating primarily dry foods


Over the years, before and after this study came out, I have talked to many, many pet owners who were seeking help for a hyperthyroid cat. 
When there is a health problem, I always ask "what are you feeding?" 
Not one person ever told me: "canned food". I have yet to come across someone whose cat was on a lifelong canned diet when it developed hyperthyroidism. NOT trying to say such a person doesn’t exist, we just haven’t run into each other. 
The people _I_ talked to were all feeding a dry food diet, or lots of dry food with a little canned "because canned food makes cats spoiled and finicky." 
I'm not kidding, but I truly wish I were.

Naturally my little survey is no scientific study but the answers I've got definitely make me wonder why I was getting these kinds of answers while the people who were conducting the scientific study got answers that led them to the exact opposite conclusion. 

According to an article I have from 1999, hyperthyroidism was first documented in cats almost 30 years ago, but the cause of the disease has been elusive. It is part of an immune system breakdown, which some veterinarians say has been weakening cats over several generations. 

Now if we stop here for just a moment, I just mentioned it to one poster earlier today that lack of protein leads to a weakened immune system. The fact is that protein (complete protein from animal sources) is vitally important for cats because it promotes and sustains a strong and healthy immune system. And if we think back of Dr. Jean’s article about canned food (I posted a few paragraphs from it not too long ago) we realize that the amount and the kind of protein cats need for the best of health comes from canned food. 

Also, holistic veterinarians are linking the rise of chronic illness, including hyperthyroidism, with the use of combination vaccines and repeated yearly boosters. (Thank God we are finally getting away from those.) We realize that the link between disease and vaccinations is not the product of holistic veterinarians’ overactive imagination when these days our conventional vets will not give a distemper booster to a cat that is seriously ill with IBD.
According to studies, giving yearly vaccinations (or even one unnecessary booster once every three years) can irritate the cat’s immune system and cause it to go awry. 

When I was desperately looking for facts and information on IBD, I found this stunning and eye-opening explanation from Dr. Don Hamilton (a homeopath in New Mexico) that truly explained everything:

"Once I opened my eyes to the possibility of vaccine-induced illness, I began to see it commonly. It even became clear that certain vaccines could cause chronic illness that resembled the acute disease that the vaccine was intended to prevent. *Panleukopenia* is a good example. 
With panleukopenia, major symptoms include inflammation and degeneration of the intestinal tract leading to severe vomiting and diarrhea, severe reduction of white blood cells (leukopenia) leading to immunosuppression, loss of appetite, mucopurulent nasal discharge, dehydration, and rapid weight loss. The chronic diseases we see frequently in cats correspond to many of these symptoms. *Inflammatory* *bowel disease*, an autoimmune inflammation of the intestines, is occurring at epidemic levels today. This disease was virtually nonexistent twenty years ago, yet today it is one of the most frequent diagnoses."


Just one more thing. Over the years I haven’t heard from one person who had lost a cat directly to hyperthyroidism. I have heard from many people who have lost cats to a urinary blockage or kidney disease, including early kidney disease, when the cat wasn’t even ten years old yet. (I’ll never forget the little furbaby who was only five years old.)

I have also heard from many people who had managed to turn things around for their cats they thought they were losing to repeated blockages, by switching to canned food.

So, all this and more goes through my mind when I think about these studies and the conclusions the people who conducted them arrived at.


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## micp879 (Mar 22, 2005)

So then meowmie, do you even think there is any possiblity that the pop top laquer/glue has anything to do with it, even a slight chance? Or do you think the study was completely flawed and unreliable all the way around to encourage dry food use instead?


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## Meowmie (Jun 4, 2005)

I'll be honest with you, I don't. In my mind the conclusions of the study revolve around dry food vs canned - canned period, not only pop up tops, but canned in general, which makes me somewhat suspicious.


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## Amber in TX (Jul 11, 2005)

Thank you everyone! Meowmie I think I'm going to start out with canned Wellness in either the chicken or turkey flavor. I wonder if turkey causes fatigue in cats like it does in humans. I forget the name of the chemical that is in turkeys that causes the fatigue. Have you noticed if you kitty is less active when she eats turkey versus chicken? I'm guessing not but I thought I'd ask anyway. That's so cute about your kitty getting more excited to eat when you give her turkey. Awww! 

Thanks again to all!


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## Meowmie (Jun 4, 2005)

You are thinking of the amino acid tryptophan. Turkey is an excellent source. Tryptophan can be very useful for cats in certain situations. In those situations behaviorists actually advise adding a small amount of real cooked turkey ("people food") to the cat's daily diet. 

Tryptophan is used by the brain to produce serotonin, a necessary neurotransmitter that transfers nerve impulses from one cell to another and is responsible for normal sleep. Consequently, tryptophan helps to combat depression and insomnia and to stabilize moods. 
It helps to control hyperactivity in children, alleviates stress, is good for the heart, and it can be helpful in weight control by reducing appetite. 

I guess this explains why cats can become sleepy and less active if there is too much turkey in their diet.

My cats don't really like turkey, so they never eat enough of it to cause a noticeable difference in their behavior. 
(At one time I did use turkey as part of the overall treatment plan in an effort to help an extremely fearful, anxious kitty.)


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## Meowmie (Jun 4, 2005)

I just want to (have to) add that feeding only one flavor from one brand of food is a very bad idea because no matter how we look at it, that's a very unbalanced diet. 

In extreme situations (when one must deal with a very serious health problem) this approach can be helpful for a short period of time but then variety must once again be introduced into the cat's diet.
The fact is that feeding only one food almost always leads to allergy, and a reaction to the cat's "only" safe food is the ultimate monkey-wrench when people try to treat allergy with only one kind of food. 

So I urge you not to take the single food approach with healthy cats. 
Feed a variety of flavors and as many brands of food as your cats can tolerate without any health problems.


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## micp879 (Mar 22, 2005)

Meowmie, then do you think that its a bad idea to feed California Natural as the main diet to a healthy cat? Being its only a chicken/rice diet, is it best to avoid it in the long run since there isnt any variety?


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## Meowmie (Jun 4, 2005)

If someone is using California Natural dry to add a little excitement to a varied canned diet, that's fine. If California Natural canned is the only brand and flavor being fed and the cat is not getting any other foood, that's really not such a great idea.
If someone is feeding California Natural dry and no other food, even if it's only another good quality dry food, that's also not such a wonderful idea. 

Amazingly, many cats become allergic to chicken, so if it's possible, one should try to vary the animal protein sources right from the beginning in an attempt to prevent such an allergy from developing. Because when such an allergy does develop, food well tolerated becomes very difficult to find and many people end up having to feed a single protein diet such as rabbit, venison, etc.

When it comes to food allergy, the possibilities are limitless, but here is the list of the most frequently diagnosed major allergens:

Chicken 
Turkey
Beef 
By-products containg these protein sources 
Milk
Brewer's Yeast
Eggs - particularly the whites
Fish and fish oils
Corn, corn oil, corn gluten, etc
Wheat and wheat by-products such as wheat flour, wheat gluten, etc
Soybeans

As for vegetables, carrots seem to be a major allergen for both cats and dogs. (Some allergic dogs are able to tolerate them cooked but now raw.)

Years ago, egg embryos were used in preparing distemper vaccines for dogs, but they were dropped from the formulations when it was found that they caused allergic reactions in many animals.


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## lilysong (Apr 4, 2005)

Meowmie said:


> When it comes to food allergy, the possibilities are limitless, but here is the list of the most frequently diagnosed major allergens:
> 
> Chicken
> Turkey
> ...


Doesn't it stand to reason that so many diagnoses stem from the fact that so many cats have a diet of it? And if these are big no-nos, what on earth are cats intended to eat?


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## Meowmie (Jun 4, 2005)

They really are no big no-nos. According to vets who treat allergic animals, much of the problem is caused by the quality of the food and also lack of variety. They explain that if you feed the same food for years, there is potential for intolerances to develop, particularly if the diet consists of cheap commercial pet food containg multiple ingredients of poor quality. 
They urge owners to always read the ingredient label. The shorter the list, the better. The longer the list, the greater the chance of encountering an offending ingredient . Keep in mind the first three ingredients on the label usually make up 90 percent of the contents. 

They also urge owners to look out for and avoid products with chemical additives. This means artificial colors, artificial flavors, artificial sweeteners, preservatives and stabilizers. All have the potential to intensify or wholly activate an allergic reaction.


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## lilysong (Apr 4, 2005)

Gotcha. Thanks for expounding.


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## Amber in TX (Jul 11, 2005)

Once again thank you Meowmie! I'm really anxious to see how my female cat reacts to the new food. She never seems to be full on Science Diet. The vet had her on Prescription Science Diet MD for overweight cats. Right now she is on regular Light SD but she asks for food about every two hours and won't let me sleep through the night. She is ALWAYS hungry and if I don't feed her she eats things around the house like paper, toilet paper, Kleenex, or anything else she can find like lint on the floor. It's weird. So I find myself feeding her so she won't get into something that is bad for her. It's really a no win situation! But I honestly think her hunger isn't being satisfied because the nutritional food value of SD isn't what I thought it was. So if she isn't getting the proper nutrition her body tells her to eat more so that it can nourish itself. Do you think this is the case? I'm not going to start her on Wellness for overweight cats because of this. She weighs about 10.5 to 10.9lbs. and the vet says her ideal weight is 10lbs. for her body size, so she's not super overweight but just enough for her boobies to swing when she walks! LOL! I hope that she doesn't continue to think she is hungry 24/7 with the Wellness. Any thoughts on this and then I promise I won't bother you anymore, at least with this subject that is! Heehee! Just kidding!

Thanks a million!

P.S. I've been trying to post a pic of my kitties but it never works. I'll try to do it so you can see what it ends up like. Does this forum not accept shutterfly? Or is there something else I'm doing wrong? This is the first forum I haven't been able to figure out how to post photos. Thank you!


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## Meowmie (Jun 4, 2005)

Amber, question. 

You write that 


> Right now she is on regular Light SD


Is she on this diet to control a urinary problem?

I have answers and explanations for you but I want to be sure there is no misunderstanding about the food kitty is on.


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## Amber in TX (Jul 11, 2005)

No she is on it for weight control. She has never had any urinary problems. I didn't know light food was used for urinary problems, very interesting to know. Why do you ask?? Thank you again for your help! I have relayed all of your info. to my mother as well. She is also a cat owner!


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## Meowmie (Jun 4, 2005)

Okay, so we are talking about Science Diet regular light. THIS is the one?

Science Diet Light Feline Maintenance in Cans. by Science Diet ... Has 33% less fat than their regular formula

Science Diet® Light Adult is a great tasting food formulated to help prevent cats from gaining weight. It provides all the essential nutrients your cat needs for optimum health, with a low calorie, low fat formula to help with weight control. Enriched with taurine to help maintain good vision and a healthy heart. Shipping weight: 5 1/2 lbs.


Ingredients: Meat By-Products, Water, Liver, Corn Flour, Powdered Cellulose, Corn Gluten Meal, Vegetable Oil, Flaxseed, Taurine, Iron Oxide, Minerals (Calcium Sulfate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Zinc Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Vitamins (Choline Chloride, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement).


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## Amber in TX (Jul 11, 2005)

Yes that's the one except for I feed her dry. This is only because I just found out about the bad things that dry food does to cats.


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## Meowmie (Jun 4, 2005)

Okay, great. Now, if you could do me just one more favor and list the food ingredients you have on the bag. ONLY the food ingredients, I don't need the vitamin and mineral supplements.


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## Amber in TX (Jul 11, 2005)

I don't have the bag anymore because I store her food in an air tight plastic container. I'll see if it's listed on the Science Diet website. I'll be back in a sec.!


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## Amber in TX (Jul 11, 2005)

Here they are........

Brewers rice, chicken by-product meal, corn gluten meal, powdered cellulose, corn meal, animal fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), soybean mill run, chicken liver flavor, taurine, L-carnitine, preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid, minerals (potassium chloride, calcium sulfate, salt, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), rosemary extract, beta-carotene, vitamins (choline chloride, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (a source of vitamin C), niacin, thiamine mononitrate, calcium pantothenate, riboflavin, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement).


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## Meowmie (Jun 4, 2005)

THANKS! I'll be back!


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## Meowmie (Jun 4, 2005)

Okay, here we go.

Ingredients:
Brewers rice, chicken by-product meal, corn gluten meal, powdered cellulose, corn meal, animal fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), soybean mill run, chicken liver flavor, taurine, L-carnitine, preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid, minerals (potassium chloride, calcium sulfate, salt, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), rosemary extract, beta-carotene, vitamins (choline chloride, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (a source of vitamin C), niacin, thiamine mononitrate, calcium pantothenate, riboflavin, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement).



> she asks for food about every two hours and won't let me sleep through the night. She is ALWAYS hungry and if I don't feed her she eats things around the house like paper, toilet paper, Kleenex, or anything else she can find like lint on the floor.





> But I honestly think her hunger isn't being satisfied because the nutritional food value of SD isn't what I thought it was. So if she isn't getting the proper nutrition her body tells her to eat more so that it can nourish itself. Do you think this is the case?


Looking at the ingredients we wouldn't even have to go any further,we already have the perfect explanation of what’s going on. Your instinct about this food is absolutely correct.

If we start thinking about the composition of the food and the individual ingredients, we can easily understand her hunger and restless behavior.

First, since this is a “light” food and there is 33 percent less fat in it than in their regular formula, right away we have problem number one. 

Fat makes food more palatable, it also makes food more filling AND it makes calcium readily available to cells.

Calcium improves behavior by keeping the nervous system functioning properly. 

Phosphorus is the mineral that works together with calcium and is therefore indispensable in the cat’s diet. Among other things it is needed for maintaining a healthy nervous system. Less than enough phosphorus in the diet to meet a particular cat’s individual needs will lead to anxiety and irritability. Also, phosphorus is necessary for the body to metabolize fats and starches. 

Looking at this food we find lots and lots of corn in it, but NO quality animal protein ingredients. Not a single one.

Here are the facts about chicken by-product meal:
Ground, rendered, clean slaughtered chicken carcass parts such as necks, feet, undeveloped eggs, and intestines. Cannot contain any feathers, except in such amounts as may occur unavoidably in good processing practices. The quality is very inconsistent between batches. Because it is a by-product, it is best avoided in dog and cat food.

Now, we can look at the overall food value from another angle also.
The food is loaded with corn. So,....

In 1 cup of cooked corn we have 
5 gr protein
41 gr carbohydrate 
1.3 mg iron
102 mg phosphorus
2.4 mg niacin
just to mention a few key nutrients

Compared to this in 3.5 oz chicken meat we have 
25 gr protein
0 gr carbohydrate 
1.9 mg iron
220 mg phosphorus
7.4 mg niacin

What we get in necks, feet, undeveloped eggs and intestines, God only knows. 

Also, we have liver _flavor _in this wonderful food. Liver flavor??????????????????
At least in the canned version there is liver, but we can guess that liver is not a suitable dry food ingredient. 

Magnesium is cofactor in many body processes. It assists in calcium and potassium uptake. Magnesium and calcium are both very necessary to keep the nervous system functioning properly. Reduced dietary intake leads to deficiency, which in turn causes insomnia, nervousness, irritability and hyperactivity, among many other problems.

We know that manufacturers keep cat food low in magnesium to “protect” cats from urinary problems. In this instance low magnesium just adds to all the other problems we already have. 

One interesting thing about magnesium. Deficiency of this mineral can cause low blood sugar. One telltale sign of low blood sugar is constant, insatiable hunger. However, constant, insatiable hunger can also be caused by food allergy. 

I didn't go into details about the ingredients, I don't think we really have to. We already know enough. 

I believe this article will be very helpful to you: 

http://www.felinefuture.com/nutrition/magnesium.php

Please, please, don’t worry about kitty’s weight. On a wholesome, nutritious canned diet her weight will stabilize at the right level for _her_ without any effort on your part.


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## Amber in TX (Jul 11, 2005)

Meowmie,

Sorry I'm just now replying. I was feeling very sick yesterday due to my Lyme Disease.  After reading your post I am 100% sure this is why Belle is always hungry. She literally asks for food about every 2hrs. and like I said if I don't feed her she gets into the toilet paper, printer paper, newspaper and anything else she can get into. I call her Belley goat gruff cause she will eat paper like a goat. I have to watch her like a hawk. This is why I end up feeding her, basically in order to keep her from eating something that could harm her. The vet said Belle has some type of disorder found in cats (it's called something that starts with Piko or Pika) where cats will eat anything they find such as lint and other odds and ends that end up on our home floors. I think the fact that she has this disorder goes back to the lack of nutrition in her food which the vet recommended!  Also Belle was the runt of her litter and her mother was about 9 months old herself and didn't nurse the kittens much and when she did Belle didn't get any. Belle was a rescue kitty and I had to actually feed her special milk and spend 2k on medical bills when she almost died! It was awful. The vet said Belle is a fighter and she didn't think Belle was going to make it, so she beat the odds!

I guess I'm getting off track, sorry! I find what you wrote so interesting! I sent it to my mother. She thinks you are right on track! I started Belle on Wellnes canned chicken mixed with a bit of dry Wellness yesterday and she loved it. I'm mixing in her old food for a week until she gets used to the new food. What's funny is she picked around the Science Diet and only ate the Wellness. When she'd get a piece of SD she'd spit it out. And the other cool thing is that she actually chewed the dry Wellness where when she eats the SD she would just swallow it!!! We also started our male cat CK on the same regimen and we found him chewing his food as well. He was the same as Belle about swallowing the food like a pill. I wonder if they chew it because they like the flavor better??? This is very exciting news in our family! Our two cats and one dog are now all eating Wellness! YAY!

I also find it interesting about how you said that the lack of calcium can cause anxiousness, irritability etc. I find this type of behavior in both cats. I wonder if the new food could make a difference in one day. Because I saw a huge difference in their behavior. They were more active, had a better mood, were more patient with each other and so many more things I could go on!

That is so horrible about the definition of by-products! How gross! How nutritious, chicken feet!!! LOL! 

Since both cats picked around their old food and didn't eat any of it and they didn't get sick after do you think it would be ok to not mix their old food in with the Wellness? I mean if they aren't going to eat it I don't see the difference? What would you suggest? Also our dog Lucy is 15 years old. The store didn't have the senior version in stock so we had to get the regular dog formula. Do you think it would hurt to give her the non-senior type just so we can get her on Wellness? I hate to keep feeding her the bad SD food. I know you're a cat person but my mom asked me to ask you since you are way more knowledgeable in this area than we are!

Thank you for all the info. you've given me. Our kitties thank you as well! 

Now my fiance and I need to redo our budget to include this high dollar food! We're getting married on October 1, 2005. I'm staying with my parents until the big day so that's why I'm asking you all these questions from my mom for her animals. Belle is my only pet. I don't know how it's going to work out when she leaves her friends. We've worried about this so much. I think CK will either come with us or we'll get another kitten. But that's a whole other topic I won't bother you with! 

Thank you again! You are kind!

Hugs,

Amber


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## Meowmie (Jun 4, 2005)

Hi Amber!

Oh I’m so sorry to hear you have Lyme disease! How awful. 
If you are interested, in this book (you can pick it up at any health food store or natural food supermarket that sells books, or order it online): Prescription for Nutritional Healing by Balch (MD), there is a supplement regimen and other recommendations for the treatment of Lyme disease that could be very helpful to you. (This in addition to whatever medical treatment you are receiving.) 
(If you decide to follow the supplement regimen, start with only a small amount of vit C - 500 mg per day for instance - and build up slowly to a higher amount.)

The pica you mention may very well have something to do with a nutritional deficiency (or multiple deficiencies). If that’s the case, on a higher quality diet you should definitely see improvement very soon.

If the new food is well received and your kitty really enjoys it (and even spits out the old food LOL) there is no reason to continue with the old food at all. 

With Lucy, everything depends on her health status. If the kidneys are healthy and she doesn’t need a restricted diet on a daily basis, then non-senior food should be all right for her - for now.

With dogs there are two things to keep in mind. As long as they are young and healthy you want to feed an acidifying diet to protect them from bacterial urinary infections and struvites.
When they get older and impaired kidney function drives the pH down to the point where some dogs even develop oxalates, you want to treat and control the condition with supplements, and a diet that is alkalizing rather than acidifying. 

For the kitties – since there is so much grain in the Wellness dry formula, be cautious with it and feed it like a treat only but not as a significant part of the regular diet. They might get into trouble with it. (It would be best if you didn't have to feed dry food at all.)

If I forgot to address something don’t hesitate to remind me! 

(((Hugs)))


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## Amber in TX (Jul 11, 2005)

Thank you again! Actually we do have that book you are talking about. Since I was diagnosed with Lyme when I was 19 and now I'm 26 we've tried just about everything and read just about all we could get our hands on because my mom also has it and my fiance caught it on a camping/fishing trip so between all of us we've been searching forever. Plus our families and friends are very helpful as well. We're actually testing a few alternative ideas right now in combination with our Dr.'s regimen. It's a very hard disease to cure if you don't catch it right away which was the case for my mom and I. Luckily Matt my fiance caught his in time and only has a few problems left over from it. Bottom line WATCH OUT FOR TICKS! They are bad news!

As for the kitties they are doing fine! I think I'll take your advice and take them off the old food all the way since it's been a few days and they just pick it out or spit it out when they do get a piece. I need to send my mom your message about Lucy's food because she does have kidney problems. I think we're going to have to get the senior formula from another store since the store we go to didn't have any in stock. I will keep you updated on how everything goes. I'll probably be bothering you again soon with another question or two! By the way do you think it's possible that this food could have already affected Belle's coat?? I swear her fur is so much softer feeling even my parents noticed. I'm wondering if the omega oils etc. are conditioning it already? I didn't think I'd see a difference in her coat so soon but I know we do. It also is shiny in the sun! Our male is in a better mood and they both just seem so satisfied after they eat. I compare the difference like when we humans eat fast food compared to eating a nutritional good meal and how we feel after eating. 

I really appreciate your guidance with everything! 

Hugs,

Amber :0)


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## Meowmie (Jun 4, 2005)

Skin and coat, just like everything else inside the body, even though we don't see it, start to respond to positive changes very quickly. And calmer behavior can be _very_ obvious after only 24 hours. 
So I'm not surprised you are seeing a difference already. 

I hope the alternative ideas you are testing will work for you.


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## Amber in TX (Jul 11, 2005)

Deb,

Thank you so much for helping me throughout this process! You've been awesome! I'll keep ya posted!

Amber


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## lotocats (May 5, 2003)

I have 2 elderly cats with hyperthyrodism, one male, one female. They are both 16. Actually the male is older, but I don't know how much as I got him as an adult 16 years ago.

The female's disease is worse and she has to take medication 2x a day whereas the male only once.

They were both fed 95% premium dry food and 5% canned foot, primarily fish flavors (not tuna though). I've heard that it is the fish that causes this disease. 

I don't know what it is, but I wish I knew so I could avoid whatever it is that causes it.

A comment about Science Diet. I put my cats on Science Diet adult regular because I was able to get it at a discount. Within 3 months my cats starting loosing fur like crazy. It was unbelievable the shedding that was taking place. I don't know how they weren't bald.

I switched them back to other foods, i.e., Innova, Pro Plan, Purina One and other premium brands and now they are all looking great and the shedding is at a minimum. I've also heard that the worst thing to feed your pet is the SD light version as their is not enough fat for good health. I've heard that you shouldn't feed any light foods as none of them are really healthy. That in order for your pet to slim down, just feed less of a regular formula. I have some fatso's, but I refuse to use the light food after learning of it's deficiencies.


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## Amber in TX (Jul 11, 2005)

WOW, that is really interesting! This is great information to know. I know that I already notice a difference in my cats even during this short amount of time they've been on Welless Chicken dry and canned. I will never feed them SD or SD Light again. Now that I know this about the fish flavor I think I'll avoid it as well. I think I read that some place on this board too. I think I'll switch between beef and chicken. I read that turkey can cause them to be less active since it has a chemical in it that can cause fatigue. That's one reason we get so tired on Thanksgiving, and I always thought it was because I ate too much! LOL! There's nothing like a nap on Thanksgiving day!! Anyway I really appreciate you taking time to share you're knowledge! My kitties say thank you too! Big hugs to you and your kitties!

Amber


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