# Does this breeder sound weird or is it just me?



## Nero the Sable (Oct 28, 2004)

Ok - I remember seeing this on a breeder's website a while back before I got Halifax. At that time I was trying to figure out if I wanted a ragdoll or not and I saw this on the visitation of one breeder's cattery:

_For several reasons, we have revised parts of our visitation policy. Our primary concern is our cats staying healthy. Some feline "critters" and viruses can be transmitted on people's hands or clothing and young kittens are especially susceptible to these things. So after consulting with our vet, we have decided not to take chances with the kittens' health. Additionally, although the Ragdolls are an integral part of our home, this is only one aspect of our lives. Lastly, but importantly, opening one's home up so that people you don't know can "tour" your home and cats can be very unsafe. Sadly, we found this to be true. 


So, how do you pick out a kitten? It is crucial that you develop a relationship with a breeder whom you trust. I often tell people they should choose a breeder...not a kitten. We like to get as much information as possible about the prospective family and environment. That helps us to identify a kitten whose personality would best match your home. As an example, a quiet reserved kitten would not fit in well with a family in which there is a lot of activity going on. Likewise, a real outgoing kitten might not be suitable for an older person. We usually have a good idea of the kittens' personalities at about seven weeks of age and can then tell you what babies would be best for you. We do try our best to honor your request for a specific color, pattern and gender so please let us know what dream baby you are looking for.
We love to post pictures of our babies when they get old enough, usually around 6 to 7 wks. of age, and the prospective family can choose a kitten(s) from these pictures and descriptions, or arrange an appointment that is convenient for me. We will post pictures every couple of weeks so you can watch your baby growing. After you have chosen the kitten(s) you want a deposit of 150.00 must be sent for each kitten. A kitten is not considered as chosen until a deposit is received. 


When can you visit to see the kittens?
After they have received their first vaccination at 6 wks. of age. A visit is arranged. You may make a request to see the kittens on a Sunday at times that are not taken by another client. Saturday is not a conveniet day for me as this is family day. If you choose to visit on a week day, we can plan to meet for you to see the kitten and you may choose a kitten that is not already spoken for (deposit received). 


Do I allow visitations to view my cattery?
Yes, as my double car (cat) garage has been set up for my cattery. I have several windows that you can look through to see my breeders. For health reasons no one is allowed inside the cattery. Again, the reason for this is a person can bring in diseases from shoes, clothing, etc. that cannot be seen by the "naked" eye. My cats health is of utmost importance. Remember, this will mean that your kitten(s) will be healthy and not exposed to diseases.
Thank you for your understanding of these policies._


This just seemed a bit weird. I'm not trying to say she is a bad breeder... (because I haven't gone to her place to look) but you can't see the cats and see what they are like? You can only look at them through a glass on sunday? It just sounds so odd to me.

I know that she must keep her cats healthy - but if you aren't allowed to see them but one day by appointment only... it just sounds incredibly fishy. It could be dirty all other days... they could be in cages all the time... you would never know.

And you only get to see one kitten - the kitten you are getting. You don't get to see it walk around with it's litter mates of how it interacts with it's mom or anything else.

She does talk about trust - but it sounds like she doesn't trust her buyers - so how can they trust her? Don't you have to meet people sort of in the middle?

But I'm not a breeder - what do you guys think?


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## OsnobunnieO (Jun 28, 2004)

I can definately see where she's coming from, but this doesn't exactly put up a great imagine of her as a breeder.

I wouldn't like the idea of people coming through my home, but then again... I have no reason for such visitors. If you choose to be a breeder, you're going to have to accept that people are going to want to SEE the cats and where they live.

I also don't like that the garage is the cattery... it sounds like its the only place the cats live. It doesn't say anything about the kittens growing up in the home with the family... I've always been a big fan of breeders who stress that the cats (or dogs) are members of the family first and foremost.

Maybe she's just had some bad experiences, had shady people come in and steal things or mess up the house, or had cats get sick too often... but it still seems like she's not very open to her potential buyers.


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

I also raised my kittens underfoot. I thought, on a number of occasions, that it was probably not wise for me to allow people to come when I was alone, though. That's not a good idea. Yet, I did it. Not too smart. There should be more than one person in the house. Or, as Osnobunnies suggested, perhaps she has had items stolen--perhaps even a kitten!


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## icklemiss21 (Aug 29, 2004)

I would understand why she may not want people in her home, it is just asking for things or kittens to be stolen, people may come to look at a kitten purely to steal from her. 

I think she has the right idea, but the way she puts it comes across wrong. She may well be a lot more flexible when you call to speak to her too. I find a lot of places have rules that are just there for show, but if they think you are serious about buying from them are quite welcome to bend the rules.


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## Feral Fan (Feb 9, 2005)

I can see that the breeder would not want the house open for a general tour. The rescue shelter I volunteer at keeps the location of the actual shelter "quiet" as in it is not generally known where the cats are. They also do not allow just anyone to troup through. A lot of visitors can be stressful and can bring disease (also the reason no kittens are at the shelter only in foster homes). 

What happens with our organization though is that people apply to adopt a cat, if they are approved then a showing time is set up and they come to visit the cats. The people who go for a showing are serious about adopting a cat and not just looking to visit some cats for an afternoon. They don't always adopt but it keeps things reasonable. 

I think that this breeder seems to be a bit over the top. I mean it is not all that fun to have people trooping through the house, but then don't breed! When we have fostered kittens for the rescue organization we allow the people to come visit them for a period of time, play with them and their siblings, and mom if there is one. The people who came through had all applied and been approved before hand, but not all of them ended up taking one of the kittens. So I could see a breeder doing similar, screening the adoptive family first and then setting up times for a visit. This breeder must have had a really bad experience to be so strict!


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## ForJazz (Dec 30, 2003)

I think there might be a miscommunication about what she means. Maybe she didn't do a great job of clarifying. You *are* allowed to see the cattery and look at the BREEDERS through the glass. When the kitten that you and she have chosen based on personality and appearance is old enough, then you can meet it in person. 

She seems very dedicated in fostering a good relationship with you so that she'll help you choose the right one, and that *is* important. She does know the kittens better than anyone, after all. And if you put down a deposit but aren't sure which one you want, then you can come visit and see which one you might like, and reserve it if it isn't spoken for. The part where you said "you can only see kittens through the glass on sundays" wasn't right either -- she said weekdays are fine if you set up an appointment, Saturdays are the only day you can't see your kitten. 

I think she sounds like a strict but good breeder to me -- I think she's right not to trust everyone that comes into her home. She did stress the communication factor -- it sounded like once you have a good relationship and history of communication with her, and make it clear that you are serious, then you may see the kitties. The part about viewing her cattery and her home seemed more for people who just wanted to browse and play with cute kitties, and weren't serious. And remember, if she takes these precautions, it means you will probably get a very healthy kitty. I guess I just wonder about socialization -- that would be the #1 thing I'd ask her. 

I think if you are interested but just have a few questions about what she really means, then you should just contact her and ask her to clarify. It might be very worth it.


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## coaster (Dec 1, 2004)

It's not very good public relations or marketing, but I definitely don't think it's terribly weird or out of place. They explained their reasons and it all seems logical to me. The only thing I would want to know is if the deposit is refundable if after seeing the kitten you decide it's not right for you.

I guess if they're in business they have a right to choose their own business practices. There's probably enough demand for their kittens that they can do it without sacrificing sales.

I would suspect they've come up with these policies after being burned a few times. "Trust but verify" a famous U.S. President once said.


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## Sol (Feb 20, 2003)

I think this breeder have had horrible experiences from diseases and is being extremely cautious.

I don't allow visits until the kittens are 4 weeks old because they have very little protection against diseases, on the other hand I think it's positive for the kittens to meet other people than just me and my boyfriend. The visitors have to take their shoes of and desinfet their hands (I have alcoholic gel for that) before meeting the kittens, but that is how cautious I am.

I don't believe it's good for kittens to grow up in a sterile enviroment so I wouldn't go so far as this breeder have, but I'm NOT saying it's a bad breeder. Obviously she/he is very concerned about the cats health.


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## ForJazz (Dec 30, 2003)

Sol you made a good point...if a kitty grows up in a completely sterile environment, they wouldn't develop as many antibodies that could help them fight illness later. Is that right? 

Yeah -- my only other concern would be socialization. Ragdolls are known as very social easy-going cats, but that has a lot to do with their upbringing of course.


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## jennifer2 (Mar 5, 2005)

I know one person who breeds cats. They won't let anyone into their house until the kittens are about 6 to 7 weeks old. Then they'll invite one or two people to come over (one at a time) so the kittens can meet other people. When they do sell kittens, most of the time it is long distance. (this is not a common breed of cat). They always hand deliver their kittens. When they get to the new house, if it doesn't meet their expectations the deal is off. This is after many phone conversations with the buyer. They say they've only had one person that the deal fell through with and that was because the kitten didn't want anything to do with the buyer. They view their cats like children, and they breed to promote the breed so they don't want their kittens to go to just anyone who wants a cute cat. They go the extra mile to make sure the kitten gets what they consider an appropriate home. They also make the buyer sign a contract that states no declawing, no papers until the females are fixed-they don't deliver the males until they've been fixed, and the cat must be an indoor cat.


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## Sol (Feb 20, 2003)

ForJazz said:


> Sol you made a good point...if a kitty grows up in a completely sterile environment, they wouldn't develop as many antibodies that could help them fight illness later. Is that right?
> 
> Yeah -- my only other concern would be socialization. Ragdolls are known as very social easy-going cats, but that has a lot to do with their upbringing of course.


Exactly, unfortunately we have to be exposed to various bacterias and viruses to develop a good immune system, the same goes for the cat. Sadly some individuals don't manage the exposure and they die. It's life.


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## ForJazz (Dec 30, 2003)

Of course I hate the thought of little kittens not making it because they are exposed to a little cold or something. But does that, in turn, make the breed stronger based on the "survival of the fittest" philosophy? I have a friend who breeds ragamuffins and has been doing so for a long time. She has a very good track record for having healthy, happy, velcro-kitty ragamuffins. A few months ago though -- she had her first go at breeding Japanese Bobtails. Tashi (the mommy) had 6 little cuties, but they all ended up dying within the span of about a month. They just sort of faded away, as she put it. Based on her ragamuffin breeding, I would say that she does an excellent job. So might it just have been the genes? 

By the way Sol, you might be interested to know that I saw 2 little ADORABLE Devon kitties at the show I went to a while ago. They looked to be about 6 months old, but I'm not that familiar with the size of Devons -- they might have been younger. Anyway -- they were so unique looking. I think they were dilute patched tabbies. It was all I could do to stop myself from snatching them up -- they were the most beautiful, sweet, entertaining little things at the whole show!


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## Sol (Feb 20, 2003)

ForJazz said:


> Of course I hate the thought of little kittens not making it because they are exposed to a little cold or something. But does that, in turn, make the breed stronger based on the "survival of the fittest" philosophy? I have a friend who breeds ragamuffins and has been doing so for a long time. She has a very good track record for having healthy, happy, velcro-kitty ragamuffins. A few months ago though -- she had her first go at breeding Japanese Bobtails. Tashi (the mommy) had 6 little cuties, but they all ended up dying within the span of about a month. They just sort of faded away, as she put it. Based on her ragamuffin breeding, I would say that she does an excellent job. So might it just have been the genes?
> 
> By the way Sol, you might be interested to know that I saw 2 little ADORABLE Devon kitties at the show I went to a while ago. They looked to be about 6 months old, but I'm not that familiar with the size of Devons -- they might have been younger. Anyway -- they were so unique looking. I think they were dilute patched tabbies. It was all I could do to stop myself from snatching them up -- they were the most beautiful, sweet, entertaining little things at the whole show!


I'm positive there are blood lines who aren't very "strong and healthy" but hopefully they're not many. I hate it, but I have to admit that survival of the fittest is the way to go when it comes to breeding healthy animals. I don't mean that we should kill kittens that are weak, I just mean we should be careful breeding them. Nad when we humans decide which cats should breed there's a risk we will make bad choices. Some cats genes just don't match. Male X might leave healthy and strong kittens with one female, but the offspring with another female might turn out just the opposite. 

Oh, yes, Devon babies are almost always at risk for catnapping :wink: I'm so longing for kittens. Hopefully I'll have healthy kittens in all kinds of colors and patterns this summer.


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## ForJazz (Dec 30, 2003)

So then I take it the breeding between Conrad and Pirjo didn't take? I am dying to see more Devons ever since I went to that cat show. I mean, I was very intrigued by yours and I love your pictures, but to meet one in person was just...special. And they aren't very common around here, so there just aren't enough people I can talk to.


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## Nero the Sable (Oct 28, 2004)

Thanks for the feedback. I've been checking out her website for a while now (one of my favorites for Ragdolls) and I think she just started changing her policy. I know that I wouldn't like someone just heading over to my house and take a look - but sometimes I wonder why people are being so secretive. :lol: I guess I'm just curious.  

I wondered what other breeders thought about these policies - if they were normal or not. I've never seen anything quite like it - so it stuck out at me.

I love these guys because they seem to care about their animals, wait 12 weeks, spay and neuter them before they go home with you and everything. I think it's worth it.

Thank you guys again.


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## Sol (Feb 20, 2003)

ForJazz said:


> So then I take it the breeding between Conrad and Pirjo didn't take? I am dying to see more Devons ever since I went to that cat show. I mean, I was very intrigued by yours and I love your pictures, but to meet one in person was just...special. And they aren't very common around here, so there just aren't enough people I can talk to.


No, it didn't take. Not a surprise though since both of them were rookies :wink: Conrad has more experience now so hopefully it'll work out this time.


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