# 1 yr old cats - booster shots/vaccines/etc?



## brite (Feb 27, 2004)

just wanted to inquire about what booster shots / vaccinations are needed for a 1 yr old cat... i've heard that some vaccines need their booster shot after the first year, but not again afterwards for 3 years... and i think i'm starting to get them all confused. i know my vet should tell me this info as well, but after hearing horror stories lately, and knowing that i will be going to a new vet this next visit (i've moved away my old vet), i want to be informed properly before i go in.

so which shots would my kitties need? they've had all their shots the first time around when we adopted them from the shelter.

thanks,
brite


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## coaster (Dec 1, 2004)

most vets refer to the one-year boost shot as distemper, but you should know it's actually a combination of three or four different vaccines:

Calici virus
Rinotracheitis
Leukopenia
Chlamydia (optional)

usually the "trivalent" or three-in-one vaccine goes by the acronym FVRCP.

also, depending on the laws in your locality, you may need a rabies innoculation. there are one-year and three-year types. my vet recommended the one-year because it has a lower incidence of causing problems.

yes, vaccines do have risks. but they're relatively low and worth the risk. you should ask the vet for more details to inform yourself on the vaccines, benefits, and risks.

Tim


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## AddFran (Jul 10, 2004)

Is there really a difference between the two rabies vaccinations? I'm weary of that one. I wonder if they are both the same. I know they only cost difference associated with the two by us is that the rabies TAG costs $12 instead of $5 after the vaccination...hmmm... :? 
I suspect they are the same, would love to find out for sure though.


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## AddFran (Jul 10, 2004)

Brite, I believe you do need to have boosters done on the FVRCP at one year old and thereafter you may vaccinate every 3 years. There have been many studies done that prove these vaccines last for significantly more than 1 year. Some I have read can last 5 years +. It also lowers your cat's chance of getting cancer at the vaccine site later on if they do not get these vaccinations every single year. Unfortunately, rabies vaccines are usually not an option and are usually a law as Tim mentioned above. 

Hope that helps a bit.


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## coaster (Dec 1, 2004)

addfran - I don't know. I'm a newbie at cats. I only know what I read and hear and experience with my own cats. Some of what I hear naturally comes from the vet. I suppose she only tells me what the vaccine manufacturer says about its vaccines.

it wouldn't be the first time a health professional gave me incorrect information!!

Tim


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## AddFran (Jul 10, 2004)

timskitties said:


> ait wouldn't be the first time a health professional gave me incorrect information!!
> 
> Tim


Ditto! 

I'm going to see if I can investigate that a bit online and see if i come up with anything. Maybe Dr. Jean can shed some light if she comes across this thread.


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## brite (Feb 27, 2004)

ah, so the FVRCP is referred to as distemper... i started getting confused b/c i thought distemper was something different, and usually only recommended for outdoor cats (my cats are indoor).

and rabies -- i think that was the only one i was sure of ha ha. ok, keep the info comin, this is great. thanks guys!

-- brite


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## drjean (Jan 6, 2004)

For my own cats, I give the kitten series (FVRCP, at 9 and 14 weeks) and a one year booster. I give rabies (merial purevax) at 6 months and a one-year booster. Then (don't tell anyone) they don't get anything else, ever. They are all indoors only.

We recently did a series on vaccines in our newsletter:
http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?a ... terarchive
May - Sept 2004 issues.

Cheers,
Dr. Jean


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## RarePuss (Jun 16, 2004)

drjean said:


> For my own cats, I give the kitten series (FVRCP, at 9 and 14 weeks) and a one year booster. I give rabies (merial purevax) at 6 months and a one-year booster. Then (don't tell anyone) they don't get anything else, ever. They are all indoors only.
> 
> We recently did a series on vaccines in our newsletter:
> http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?a ... terarchive
> ...


That is exactly what i'm doing and what my breeder recommened and does herself! 

9,14 weeks, distemper at one year, rabies at 6 months, rabies at a year and then NOTHING :d


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## coaster (Dec 1, 2004)

this is what I'd do EXCEPT in our area, the law requires a rabies shot before a cat or dog can be licensed. if I don't license them, then if they get out and get picked up, I risk losing them to a shelter or paying a fine.

then there's also the problem if they ever bite anyone, mentioned in my previous msg in this thread.

Tim


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## OsnobunnieO (Jun 28, 2004)

I completely understand the logic behind getting a kitten vaccinated and then not having anymore done. The immunities should last for life. If I had my cat as a kitten this would certainly be what I was doing.

But I got my cat as an adult (vets say about 2-3 years old) and have no way of knowing how he was vaccinated as a kitten. I'm assuming he had all his shots, and when I first got him, I took him in to get all his vaccinations (as recommended by the humane society) and now I've read all about over vaccination and the problems it can cause. So I'm pretty set that I won't be getting my cat anymore (except MAYBE rabies...). Although I work at a vet and sooner or later I'm going to have to explain why I refuse to get him revaccinated.

The question I have is IF he didn't get properly vaccinated as a kitten will the vaccines he had almost a year ago still protect him for life? He's indoor only and healthy, so I have no reason to think he would need them anyway, but is it still ok if he MAYBE only had the vaccinations at a few years of age and only once?

Like I said, I have no way of knowing his vaccination history since I got him as an adult... does anyone know how this might have an affect?


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## coaster (Dec 1, 2004)

OsnobunnieO said:


> The immunities should last for life.


I wouldn't count on it. The experience we have with human vaccines is that it depends on the vaccine. Many vaccines have a limited immunity. Flu vaccine, for example, lasts only several months. Tetanus vaccine needs to be given every 10 years. I would say that if the vaccine is designed to give one year of protection, that's all you're going to get.

That being said, if your cats have no exposure to the illnesses vaccinated against, then getting the immunizations should be at your discretion. If you don't immunize, just remember the consequences if your cat should be exposed.

Another consideration is boarding. Most boarding facilites will not take cats unless their immunizations for FVRCP and rabies are current, and they have had the FeL/FIV test.

Tim


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## brite (Feb 27, 2004)

ok so to delve a bit further into the discussion... there are some lowcost neighborhood vaccination groups in my area. and i'm looking at the shots that they offer... which one sounds more like the FVRCP/distemper booster shot that my kitties would need?

Cat Pack: 4-in-1 (including feline leukemia)
Cat Pack Plus: 4-in-1 (including feline leukemia, and FIP or Bordetella or Giardia)

I'm planning on asking my new vet for pricing and help with this as well, but figured I'd put the question to you guys as well.

Thanks!
Brite


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## drjean (Jan 6, 2004)

Well, Timskitties, read the articles. Immunity for most feline vaccines lasts for at least 5 years, and probably much longer. The one long-term study still going on has 8 year old cats with great immunity that haven't been vaccinated since they were little kittens. 

Pet vaccines are not "designed" for one year. In fact, most companies have never tested any of their vaccines (except 3 year rabies) past one year, because until recently they had no financial interest in knowing how long they last. The yearly booster recommendation was based on economics, not science. This situation prevailed until it became clear that there are some serious health risks involved with vaccination. Now they're doing the testing and guess what, they're finding good immunity at 3 years, 5 years, 8 years, and more.

Re vaccine clinics, the "4-in-1" is a very new vaccine if it includes feline leukemia. It is unproven over time. The leukemia and rabies vaccines can cause cancer. 

There is no reason to give cats FIP, bordatella or giardia vaccines; they are simply money-makers for the drug companies (and vets). The FIP vaccine is dangerous. None of them actually prevent the diseases, they just make them less severe--except for FIP. Vaccinated cats who contract FIP get sicker and die faster than unvaccinated cats. For indoor cats, leukemia, FIP, giardia and bordatella are completely unnecessary.

It is worth spending a little more and getting only what your cats actually need. It is no bargain to include a cancer-causing vaccine.

I really recommend reading those articles; there's a lot of valuable info there.

Cheers,
Dr. Jean


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## coaster (Dec 1, 2004)

OK, thanks to Dr. Jean for throwing a little light into the topic!!

BTW, I'm still wondering which one is the cancer-causing vaccine she refers to.

Tim


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## OsnobunnieO (Jun 28, 2004)

drjean said:


> Re vaccine clinics, the "4-in-1" is a very new vaccine if it includes feline leukemia. It is unproven over time. The leukemia and rabies vaccines can cause cancer.


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## coaster (Dec 1, 2004)

OK, Osnobunnie, thanks. that's what I get for reading these things early in the morning. am I assuming correctly that Dr. Jean is also stating that the FVRCP does *not* have a cancer risk then (by omitting its mention in that sentence)? I was under the impression that they *all* did, and was looking for some clarification.

Tim


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## OsnobunnieO (Jun 28, 2004)

As far as I understand, there's always a risk of cancer. But I think the cancer associated with general over vaccination is a sort of cancer at the injection site. I've read a few places that since the diseases almost always enter the immune system by airborn viruses that injecting the "virus"(vaccine) under the skin is somewhat foreign and the body doesn't know how to react. Also, the antibodies that the body produces in response to the vaccine are specific to the disease and when multiple vaccinations are given at once, the body is unsure what to produce to which disease.

I'm really unsure of the actual terminology (disease, virus, antibodies?) but I hope you get the general idea I'm trying to get across (sorry if not, I'll try to find something more specific later on)

But I think when Dr. Jean said that rabies and leukemia vaccinations are known to cause cancer, I'm sure its a much higher occurance than in other vaccines.

Ok, now I really want to make sure I've got it right so I'm gonna try to find something better and repost later.


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## OsnobunnieO (Jun 28, 2004)

ok here we go... so far all of this is from Dr. Jean's articles



> Immunologically, annual boosters are totally unnecessary. If a vaccine produces adequate antibodies, and those antibodies are still in the blood the following year, they will inactivate a booster, making it worthless as a protector, and potentially a danger.
> 
> Dr. Ronald Schultz at the University of Wisconsin is the premier vaccine researcher in the country. He says, that “canine distemper and adenovirus-2 vaccines both provide good lifelong immunity. These need not be given annually.” He says the same about the feline distemper (panleukopenia) vaccine. He believes that a single dose of modified live vaccine given at 10-14 weeks of age is protective essentially for life. Both canine and feline distemper vaccines have been shown to induce immunity for 5-7 years or more. Moreover, all of these are diseases of young animals; older animals are naturally more resistant. Once vaccinated, adult animals are typically fully immune.
> 
> The rabies vaccine is required by law for most animals in most jurisdictions. Therefore, it is important from a legal standpoint to follow your jurisdiction’s regulations concerning rabies vaccines for your pets. Killed rabies vaccines are labeled for either 1 or 3 years; but the vaccine in the bottle is the same in both cases. Giving a 3-year vaccine every year puts your pet at greater risk for an adverse reaction. If your pet receives a killed rabies vaccine, be certain that it is labeled for 3 years. For cats, there is a safer vaccine that does not cause cancer. Purevax, by Merial, is a recombinant vector vaccine that does not induce the inflammation that occurs with killed, adjuvanted vaccines. If your vet does not carry it, try to find one who does. It’s worth it.





> Many people have now heard about the malignant, fatal tumors called fibrosarcomas that can be caused by some vaccines in cats. This cancer occurs in the connective tissue. Research in dogs shows that vaccines cause autoantibodies to be made to many connective tissue components, so it makes sense that this is the area most affected. The two vaccines currently implicated are rabies and feline leukemia. A third may be joining the list soon — the new feline AIDS (FIV) vaccine. What do these three products have in common? They are all “killed” vaccines that are made with adjuvants to increase the body's response to the vaccine. Unfortunately, in some cats, this additional response includes inflammation that can lead to the formation of cancer. Even worse, every additional vaccine — indeed, some researchers suggest that every additional injection of any sort (antibiotics, steroids, fluids, etc.)— may significantly increase the risk of developing cancer, particularly if the injections are given in the same place. The incidence is at least 1 in 10,000 cats, and some studies suggest it may be as high as 1 in 1,000 cats. (If this high a risk of adverse reaction were to be found in any childhood vaccine, the FDA would pull it from the market immediately!) Let’s think about that number for a minute. There are 77 million cats in U.S. homes today; this year, then, between 77,000 and 770,000 cats will be diagnosed with a fatal cancer caused by vaccination. There appears to be a genetic or heritable susceptibility to this cancer, but there is no known way to check for this genetic defect at this time. What if one of those cats is yours?
> 
> When vaccines were given at the base of the neck, between the shoulder blades, these cancers were inoperable because the cancer would grow into the spine, ribcage, and chest. This became such a serious problem that now it is recommended to give the rabies vaccine low in the right hind leg, and leukemia low in the left hind leg — so that when a tumor does develop, the whole leg can be amputated and thus the cat’s life can be saved. I guess the FIV vaccine will have to be given in the tail, the next most likely appendage to lop off in the event of cancer.





> Experts agree that only panleukopenia and rabies vaccines are a must for all cats. All other vaccines are optional, and should only be given if the cat’s lifestyle or health considerations make them necessary. Indoor cats do not need vaccines against Feline Infectious Peritonitis (FIP), Giardia, Ringworm, Bordatella, or Feline Immunodeficiency Virus (FIV, feline AIDS)— even if the cat accidentally gets out, the risk of these diseases is extremely remote.
> 
> An initial two- or three- vaccine series for kittens is necessary for most vaccines to be effective. Vaccines should be given at least 3 weeks apart; there is little published research suggesting an outside limit, but a 4-6 week interval is probably safe and effective.
> 
> ...


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## coaster (Dec 1, 2004)

difficult reading, but very informative.

my vet recommended the 1-yr rabies vaccine over the 3-yr vaccine, because, she said, it was less risky. if it's the same vaccine, I wonder what her motives are? :x 

Tim


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## drjean (Jan 6, 2004)

drjean said:


> The leukemia and rabies vaccines can cause cancer.


I should add the FIV vaccine to that list, because it is also a killed virus vaccine. The adjuvanted (killed) virus vaccines are the ones that commonly cause cancer. (The new Merial canarypox "Purevax" rabies vaccine is not adjuvanted and is therefore safe, at least in terms of cancer).

Any injection or trauma can set the scene for later development of a tumor, but killed vaccines seem to do it pretty regularly. Every additional injection increases the risk. That alone is a good reason to minimize the vaccines given to your cat!

Cheers,
Dr. Jean


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## Ducky (Nov 3, 2004)

Do human vaccines, like for instance the Flu vaccine or Tetnus, do they have cancer causing effects as well? I would assume not. But vets do not run around telling you a side effect of cat vaccines is cancer either.
Is it something in the vaccine specifically for cats that is not found in human vaccines that causes the cancer?
I haven't read the article yet, so if they are mentioned there, I will find out in a second when I read.

Thanks. Off topic, but just curious as I didn't know that vaccines can cause cancer.


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## drjean (Jan 6, 2004)

The cancer reaction seems to be strongest in cats, although cases of vaccine-induced cancers have recently been reported in dogs and ferrets.

This has not been found to be a problem in humans, possibly because 
people are not re-vaccinated every year, and most human vaccines are modified live, not killed. Tetanus is a killed vaccine, but is only given once every 10 years. 

Thanks Osnobunnie for clipping those parts. I was too lazy! :lol: I know it's thick reading, but it's got a ton of info. 

Cheers,
Dr. Jean


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## Gudewife (Jun 27, 2004)

Hmmm...how new IS Purevax? I just flipped through Assumpta's vet records back to 2001, and that's _all _they've ever given her for Rabies vaccine. Oh...I also have her 2000 certificate (before she came to live with us), and even that was made by Merial. I remember asking about the 3 year vaccine the first time we had her in for an annual, and the vet said she didn't ordinarily use it, she preferred the Purevax...followed by a bunch of stuff I didn't understand at the time except for the part about injection-site sarcoma, which sounded scary, so I trusted her judgement.

I have to admit though, I thought my vet was a little off her rocker when she said to me a few years ago: "You know, I don't think we need to be giving Assumpta all these vaccines. We still have to give the Rabies by law, but if she's an indoor kitty and staying that way, I think we should either discontinue the others or space them out to every few years, because there seems to be way more risk of over-vaccinating than there is of her getting any of these diseases." 8O Having since learned better, I hereby officially and publicly apologize to my vet for giving her a raised eyebrow and thinking she was nuts. :lol: 

Seems like so far, my vet has been batting a thousand on everything except the wet food issue (and she even said she was going to have to rethink her original position on that, and her partner seems to be really up on cat nutrition, as well...when I pulled out my short-list of canned foods I wanted to try on Assumpta, she whistled and said "Wow...this is all really good stuff!"). The right anaesthesia, vaccinations, a willingness to try different things and natural remedies, helping the local shelter...and a tech calling me every day last time Assumpta was sick to see how she was doing. Not what I'd expect from a small, rural vet's office. 

<thanks lucky stars>


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## drjean (Jan 6, 2004)

Well, it's not that new; I think it came out around 1999. It's very new in comparison with the other rabies vaccines, which have been around for decades. 

I am a little slow about changing how I put things, so it's probably going to be the "new" rabies vaccine to me for another few years. I also still refer to Sam's Club as Pace, so you see the problem!

Cheers,
Dr. Jean


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## brite (Feb 27, 2004)

thanks for all the info!
i took my pair of kitties to the vet today and he said that since my cats are indoor only, they'd only need their distemper booster... and nothing else for three years (i believe he gave them the one-year shot, but said that the vaccinations have been lasting longer -- like what dr. jean mentioned). so no rabies needed either -- the state of california only requires it for dogs. i doubt i'd vaccinate them again after this, but it was reassuring to find a vet that was knowledgable and wasn't just trying to make a quick buck off of me.


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## OsnobunnieO (Jun 28, 2004)

I'm not proud to say that in a handout from work there was a mention of how some vets are suggesting vaccinations every three years, but we still want to do them every year because there isn't enough info about it yet (groan). Also, their thing with three year rabies shots is that after the first year its like 80% effective and after the second year even less. So even IF they give a three year rabies shot they want to have another one done after a year or two!! I think we only do one year rabies though (so I think the three year might be if someone had it done somewhere else?).

I have yet to really ASK the vets about vaccines though. It'll probably come up when Addison is "due" for his and I have to explain why I'm not bringing him in. He'll probably get an exam though.

At least I know that since I work there there's no excuse of them taking him somewhere and vaccinating him against my will


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## kim (Jul 20, 2004)

timskitties said:


> difficult reading, but very informative.
> 
> my vet recommended the 1-yr rabies vaccine over the 3-yr vaccine, because, she said, it was less risky. if it's the same vaccine, I wonder what her motives are? :x
> 
> Tim


they *Arent* the same vaccines. the one year rabies is a canarypox vector recombinant vaccine. it is only licensed for 1 year use. yes, for first vaccines using the killed vaccine, the first one is only licensed for a year, but later vaccines are normally accepted for 3 years. the canary pox is still a one year vaccine. it is NOT one that can later be 3 years. you have to specify which vaccines you are talking about. 



that being said, the occurance of vaccine-site fibrosarcomas has unfortunately not really been documented in other species. there has been to my knowledge 1 study in dogs and i think 2 in ferrets? The dog paper did not get much publicity at all, and most have dismissed it as nothing. the ferret one was looked at a bit more closely because i believ ethey indicated some prevalance for certain vaccines again. 

-kim and bowie (a canine with one of those very rare, cutaneous fibrosarcomas)


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## coaster (Dec 1, 2004)

I guess I will have to learn to ask specific questions of my vet.

Being ignorant of most things about cats when I first adopted them, I had to just rely on my vet's advice. Now I will have time to do my research and make my own decisions, as it should be in health care anyway for non-emergency care.

Tim


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## drjean (Jan 6, 2004)

The Merial vaccine is only licensed for one year, however, they are expecting 3-year certification shortly.

The killed rabies vaccines can be labeled for either 1 or 3 years. It is the exact same vaccine in both vials, only the label is different. Giving either of them every year vastly increases the chances of cancer. 



> I'm not proud to say that in a handout from work there was a mention of how some vets are suggesting vaccinations every three years, but we still want to do them every year because there isn't enough info about it yet (groan). Also, their thing with three year rabies shots is that after the first year its like 80% effective and after the second year even less. So even IF they give a three year rabies shot they want to have another one done after a year or two!! I think we only do one year rabies though (so I think the three year might be if someone had it done somewhere else?).


It is currently considered the standard of practice to vaccinate less often. There is "enough info" for 27 vet schools and every major veterinary organization now recommends the reduced booster schedule. Your vets are ripe for a malpractice suit by continuing to follow standards that are now out of date.

The assertion about the 3-year rabies losing effectiveness is a lie. 

Cheers,
Dr. Jean


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## OsnobunnieO (Jun 28, 2004)

That's what I'm afraid of. I looooove where I work, and both vets really are great. They really do a lot to help in every situation that comes in the door.

I've never actually talked to either of them about this, nor have I heard them speaking to clients about it. I really think one day I should bring it up. I'm just kind of afraid to I guess.


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