# Sibling behavior, advice much appreciated.



## ashleyberner (Jan 3, 2016)

It's been one week ago today that I was woken up by my only two cats who were clearly having a huge disagreement. (They are male and female, two years old, siblings, fixed, and otherwise acting completely healthy and normal.) She was growling, hissing at him from underneath my bed while he was stalking her. I broke it up, and thought that would be the end of it. As siblings, my two have played and wrestled quite often without incident... my boy has occasionally played too rough and gotten too hyper at times, and I've had to step in or put him in time out... but he cools off after a few minutes and they always move on. This did not happen. She would hiss and growl at the mere sight of him the rest of the day. But by the evening, things seemed to calm down. I thought that was it. I slept downstairs to keep an eye on them, because they tend to be active during the night. Everything was okay. Until that afternoon, the same thing... and they ended up in my bedroom with her under the bed and him stalking her.

I called the vet for advice. He said it could be redirected aggression, something I'd never heard of until now. He suggested Feliway wipes and had some samples. I've been using them, but I do not feel they make one bit of difference. Being a holiday weekend, I was unable to inquire about any further options from my vet. My girl continued to be hostile towards her brother even if he was just walking by. I called every one I could think of for advice. Some had similar advice, some didn't. Most said to keep them separated for a couple of days. So I did, switching them out once a day. My girl spent the night with me in my bedroom, because she is usually the one to sleep with me more than him anyways.

After two days... and as they both kept acting like they were looking for the other, I let them sniff through a crack in the door. It went well. They both seemed calm, so I let them out supervised. We played, had some treats for good behavior, and they both snuggled with me. Some advice I received was that when one starts something, they get a time out to diffuse the situation. So that is what I've been doing since. I keep my girl with me in my bedroom in the evenings, and then supervise them during the day. The first full day of that went really well, yesterday started a bit rough... but the evening was much calmer. But time outs do seem to give them a chance to cool down. Going upstairs was/is going to be a hurdle... for some reason she does not approve of him being up there when she is. Makes her nervous. But being on the lower level of the house during the day/early evening supervised is much better.

I'm hoping you can offer some hope, advice, encouragement. It would be so appreciated. These two are my babies, and I just want them to be happy and calm. There are long moments where they relax, play, and sleep in the same room... which gives me hope that a reconciliation is coming... it just may take a while for her to trust him again, and for him to know to give her space.

When I see the boy attempting to "start something" even though I suspect he only wants to play. I raise my voice slightly at him to stop, back off. And he has. When I do that, my girl doesn't panic or run. She sees that he's listening to me. It seems whenever he gets the least bit playful, she hisses at him. 

Last night, my boy was hanging out sleeping on the stairs, which is one of his favorite spots. My girl wanted to come upstairs with me (she is my shadow a lot) but was afraid to pass him. You could see the uncertainty in her eyes. I kept telling her to come, it was okay. My boy was very well behaved and just nonchalantly watched her and wondered why she was going so slowly. Once she reached the same step as him, she locked eyes with him for a moment to kind of test his response. He did nothing but look back at her, seemingly bored. So she came the rest of the way on her own. I gave her treats to show her how proud I was. 

I didn't want to push it, but following my instincts, I actually let my boy in with me last night... and he hopped on the bed with us and went to sleep for about three hours. Then he wanted out, he likes to patrol in the early mornings. But there wasn't a problem, both relaxed and slept.... I didn't really, but they did! When I got up today, my girl actually woke me up because she didn't want to be shut up in my bedroom anymore... and her meowing alerted my boy outside being concerned, so I bravely opened the door, and she went her way and he went his. No problems. Now they're being "normal" relaxing in their spots in the house watching out the window and napping. Today there hasn't been any problems, and I'm hoping that continues through the evening. They haven't been around each other a lot, but they know the other is in the house, and it doesn't seem to matter to either one. They generally go there own ways normally anyways, so I don't want to force them together. I'm just following their lead. My girl still seemed a little jumpy a couple of times today. But once she realizes everything is okay, she calms.

My ultimate question is... when should I feel comfortable with them being unsupervised? I'm going to keep things as they are for a bit, with at least one of them in my bedroom with me at night... and keeping an eye on them so I can break up anything that might start. I don't want them to be alone too soon and then set everyone back to square one, you know? I'm also fearful of this happening again once I'm confident they are (hopefully) calm together again... if it was in fact another cat outside that set this off... I live in a rural area and it would be impossible to prevent them from seeing stray cats or other animals out the window. I can make it a point to try to get strays to leave when I see them... but just any advice you may have about how to prevent this other than what I've been doing.

Thank you for reading this long post. Again, I appreciate any advice and encouragement.


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## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

You're definitely on the right track.

TBH I'd put them back together full time, but I'd also start doing daily - or twice daily - playtimes with the boy. It seems like he's just got more energy, if you don't find a way to get it out he's going to take it out on his sister. So look at putting up a birdfeeder outside a window they like to sit in, get a wand or laser toy, and hide treats around the house for him to sniff out. Keep his little brain and body busy and he'll be better behaved.


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## ashleyberner (Jan 3, 2016)

I am afraid to put them back together, because he will still get playful towards her and she will hiss. And sometimes when he's a ball of energy he will try to wrestle her. She is not having that.


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## ashleyberner (Jan 3, 2016)

*Time outs, do they work?*

I have been going through it with my two cats the past week and a half... 

I have talked to several behaviorists and some say the time outs are good for discipline... whomever starts something, gets a time out to cool down. A few have said that this will not correct the behavior, but won't tell me what to do instead without paying for a consult. HELP? 

Advice appreciated, thank you.


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## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

If you work on draining the excess energy he has then you should be able to put them back together. Play with him until he's panting twice a day, set up other things to keep him busy (as suggested in my last post) and then let them be together.

The option is keeping them apart permanently, and the longer they're separate the more likely you'll have to keep them apart.


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## ashleyberner (Jan 3, 2016)

*Progesterone injections?*

I am having behavioral issues with my two year old, male, neutered cat. There are moments every day (usually in the morning) that he can be relentless in trying to wrestle with his sister, and get her to play. Even as she hisses and growls. My vet suggested several things, one being that perhaps a progesterone injection for my male cat would help calm him and stop his need of attacking his sister. Opinions? Thank you for any advice.


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## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

He doesn't need meds, he needs exercise and more things to keep his mind busy.

Your threads keep being combined because they're all on the same topic. The mods like to keep everything tidy, so everything about one issue gets put into one post.


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## Marcia (Dec 26, 2010)

As a foster mom and an adopter of senior and older cats - plus a volunteer at a huge municipal shelter I always tell people that hissing and growling don't bother me. It's the all out fur flying that bothers me and only then do I separate. Cats will often hiss and growl at a new comer for a week or two or more! I ignore it and let them work things out. This is NOT attacking. He wants to play and she is reluctant. Perhaps a third active kitty would be a better answer.


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## ashleyberner (Jan 3, 2016)

Thank you for your advice. It's just it's such different behavior between them, and I want to address the issue if possible. I don't want my girl to not feel safe. If she's not happy, I'm not.

I'm getting a Feliway diffuser today, hoping it works for my two. Wish me luck! And as always, thank you for your advice.


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## ashleyberner (Jan 3, 2016)

After taking necessary steps... things have improved slowly... there hasn't been a big blow up in a week, there has been some slight tension, which I've dealt with. I also plugged in a Feliway diffuser today. I am still so fearful something will happen again... for those of you who know more about this and have experienced it... when should I feel hopeful I am in the clear and on the way towards peace all of the time? Thanks.


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## ashleyberner (Jan 3, 2016)

I did catch my girl hiding under the bed today. Not sure why, because I've been listening all day for any issues. Maybe he had a look in his eyes or something... but she came out. Then she went back... now I have her out again. It's not a struggle to get her out with some treaties.


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## ashleyberner (Jan 3, 2016)

*Reliable/Affordable place to buy Feliway?*

For those of you who use Feliway products, where do you buy them? Amazon? There is a site called AffordableVet.net... has anyone had any experience with them?

Advice appreciated. Thank you.


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## Augustine (Nov 27, 2014)

I have not used it for myself, but an acquaintance wanted to try it for her cats, so I recommended she buy it from my favorite place, Chewy.com.

I don't know how the prices compare to Amazon or other websites, but they usually have great prices.


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## ashleyberner (Jan 3, 2016)

The last 24 hours have been really good... hope it continues.


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## Marcia (Dec 26, 2010)

Chewy also has free shipping for orders over $49.


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## DebS (Jun 14, 2015)

I just bought some from Amazon.com but I didn't bargain shop first. I need it quickly and I have Amazon prime so I went with them.


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## ashleyberner (Jan 3, 2016)

*Jackson Galaxy Spirit Essences, did the work for you?*

I just ordered the Spirit Essence Peacemaker by Jackson Galaxy for my two cats who still have some tension after an unexpected fight two weeks ago. Have you tried them? Did they work for you? How did you administer them? Advice appreciated.


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## LakotaWolf (Aug 10, 2012)

Have you tried Feliway? That stuff is at least a synthetic copy of a cat's natural pheromones.

As far as I can tell from reading, the Spirit Essences don't actually have any... actual ingredients in them. Only "energy blueprints", whatever those might be.


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## ashleyberner (Jan 3, 2016)

Yes, I'm trying Feliway currently. It's been plugged in for about six days right now. Too early to tell if it's working...


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## ashleyberner (Jan 3, 2016)

I'm afraid to jinx it, but I have had two good days. I see my girl slowly beginning to trust her brother again. The only time there seems to be an issue is when they are playing... if he gets close too quickly, seems as though he might try to try to wrestle with her... she will hiss or meow in a stern way. Thankfully, and to my shock, he seems to be listening to her warnings. I am hoping so much that over time my boy will learn, and as he does my girl will calm. They are back to normal otherwise, it's just some tension and trust issues during play. I am hoping that an argument doesn't break out during the night, because we have been doing so well the past two days. 

If anyone else has gone through this... when did you feel you could breath a little easier? I am so fearful it will happen again, and I need to calm down and be positive. It's difficult though. Seeing my two babies be at odds like this was heartbreaking. 

As always, any advice or encouragement is appreciated.


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## Chaparrito (Jan 10, 2016)

I used the feliway plug in on a cat who was stressed from a move and initially very afraid. It did nothing at all. A complete waste of money. I suspect most of its so-called effectiveness is placebo. Cats' owners assume it works because most situations eventually improve on their own.


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## ashleyberner (Jan 3, 2016)

*How to encourage normal play behavior between cats?*

I have two cats, male and female, siblings, two years old, indoor. The male gets overly excited/hyper and wants to wrestle/tackle his sister. She is not having it. Whenever he does ambush her, I give him a time out. This seems to calm both of them down. But it is happening quite frequently. I do play with both of them in the evenings to try to wear him out, but I'm not sure it's deterring him from going after her. Any advice?


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## ashleyberner (Jan 3, 2016)

Now for the past several days, I haven't had any major incidents like the beginning. Just some occasional tension that usually peaks in the mornings and then sometimes in the evenings. He might chase her, and then she will give a stern meow, growl, or hiss to let hime know she is not having it. He is listening more and more, and the more he does - the more confident she gets. But sometimes he does chase her, she darts underneath my bed... but she comes out rather quickly now, so they are bouncing back from their arguments quicker. She even initiated play with him last night... so clearly she isn't as terrified of him as before.

I'm wondering if this is just how it's going to be... or if the situation is still resolving itself... or what? It is so strange to see them snuggle and then argue. Does something just shift and happen when they're 2-3 years old? Will it stop?

Other than that, they are normal with each other. They snuggle in my bed together, bathe each other, eat together. So clearly it has improved... I just want to make sure things don't get heated like they did during that first incident. A little tension here and there doesn't bother me as long as things don't escalate.


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

My bratz wrestle, "fight", hiss, chase each other, etc., every single day. But they also snuggle, groom each other (and Cleo) every day and are totally inseparable. 

They're 8 years old. 

(did you just faint?) :grin:


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## ashleyberner (Jan 3, 2016)

Ha, yes I did just faint. 

I read some information that hissing/growling is not okay during playtime... and the some who say it's normal. I realize they are socially maturing... I'm just wondering if this kind of behavior is okay. Of course when it escalates, I break it up... but if it's just tension, I try to let them figure it out.


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

I break it up when it gets to the point that it bothers *me*. They don't really hiss, but when they get going, there can be a bit of yelping. That's when I nudge them towards the edge of the bed with my foot and usually one of them jumps down.


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## ashleyberner (Jan 3, 2016)

Hopefully I'm going about this the correct way -- and they will settle this soon. It's improving. They haven't hurt each other... it's just the female getting so stressed out that I worry about. But she hasn't been too stressed in a couple of weeks. She just lets him know what's exceptable to her or not.


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## skyrun (Dec 9, 2014)

I have a pair of male and female sibling cats who went through a similar process at a similar age. They had always been close, but at some point their relationship began to have sort of a roller coaster effect; first they're licking and cuddling for hours, the next day I come home from work and find tufts of fur everywhere from their fighting. To be clear- my male cat is almost always the instigator, and he's not trying to play. His behavior is very bullying and domineering. 

I will be honest with you, here, and hope it doesn't depress/disappoint you... my cats have had this roller coaster relationship for about five years now. Most of what I have tried has never made a difference- I've probably spent hundreds of dollars on feliways and stress collars and calming treats and all sorts of things, and never seen any change. When I separate them, they freak out and cry for each other, so that has never been an option- though I used to temporarily separate them to break up a fight... which usually results in the fight starting right back up the moment they're free.

Here's what I've found helps my two: lots of cat towers. They both like to be high, so I try to have high spots for each of them in most rooms, so they don't have to fight over one particular perch. Secondly, 'da bird' or the mouse toy by the same company. Simply opening the drawer this delightful toy is kept in will usually break up a fight. If I tire out my male cat enough during the day, he's got less energy to stir up drama. Thirdly, one-on-one attention time. I've noticed that my male cat is more apt to go after my female if I've recently ignored his affections or pushed him away. So I try to dedicate some time each day to giving them both one-on-one affection when they ask for it.

Lastly, very recently I've started trying something new. When they get into one of their all out brawls, instead of separating them, I put them in a small room together (like a bathroom), for about fifteen minutes. They never continue the fight while confined together, nor do they continue it after I let them out.

Anyway. Hope you find something in there that might help, and just know that it's not unusual for siblings to go through this. Sometimes I hate my brother, too. :wink:


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## catloverami (Jul 5, 2010)

You were wondering if it's normal for cats or siblings to fight once they're reached maturity. Yes, I would say it is normal...if the cats were feral those that are between 1 and 2 yrs. of age, especially males, start establishing a territory which they will defend against other males especially. The fact that they're siblings and grew up together doesn't seem to make much difference with cats, tho it's been my experience that related females seem to bond together better. You've received lots of good advice--brief timeouts, distraction, individual attention, more climbing posts or shelving to allow cat to get higher, more active play (tho you've got to be careful with *the timing* of it so cat(s) doesn't pick up on "starting a fight" just to get you to bring out the teaser toy! or Da Bird!). A friend of mine who lives in a small apt. and he has wall shelve steps to allow his cats to get on top of his kitchen cabinets where they like to hang out. These are less bulky than having additional cat trees if your space is small. I used _skyrun_'s both-in-the-bathroom method for brief timeouts with good results as well. Take a deep breath and relaax....and stay as calm and nonchalant as possible. Sometimes even leaving the room works....fighting will stop and both or one will follow you to see what's up.


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## ashleyberner (Jan 3, 2016)

Thank you all for your advice. Things are improving... usually only a brief hiss or two from my female if her brother chases her or she thinks he might. He tends to listen and back off. They are back to normal otherwise... even with the female initiating play again with her brother. So, clearly she isn't as terrified of him as she was with the first incident. She is holding her ground better and tending to not hide when she thinks he might pounce. I just hope things keep going in the right direction. They seem to be doing a lot better. The occasional hiss or tension doesn't bother me... it was the intense screaming from my female at him getting beyond stressed out that she couldn't even look at her brother... and he wouldn't stop stalking her. But here's hoping we are beyond that!


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## ashleyberner (Jan 3, 2016)

After a really good week with very little tension at all -- my boy has chased his sister three mornings in a row. She dives under my bed, I tell him to back off, and he does. Then he gets bored and leaves and she'll come out and go about her morning. It always happens when I'm sleeping. I've heard that setbacks are normal, and that it's all progress. I hope so. 

I got Da Bird, and am working on wearing them out before bed. Wish me luck!


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## eldercat (Jul 3, 2015)

Da Bird is good. Don't leave it out where they can get it on their own, or it will be dead soon and you'll have to get another.


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## catloverami (Jul 5, 2010)

It's very important to reward them when they're together _and behaving well _ together. Verbal praise and caresses, plus a few treats should reinforce their behavior that when all is well between them good things happen.


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