# Catching an abandoned kitten [New Issue!]



## khannonnd (Jan 31, 2010)

Hey guys,

About a week ago, I saw someone literally drop a young cat (c. 6-8 months) out of a car in my parking garage (not anyone who lives in this building, otherwise they would be hearing about it from me). I have spent the past week trying to catch it so I can get it its shots/neutered and find it a home (probably with me).

I started by feeding it in a specific part of the garage at the same time. It comes when I call it, but will not let me touch it. 

I rented a cat trap, baited it, and stopped putting food outside the trap. The cat, however, just sits outside the trap meowing at the food. It must be getting food from somewhere else because it has not gotten desperate enough to go in there. The second thing I tried after the trap didn't work was to get a large fishing net (the kind with a long handle) and, while it was eating I was able to net it. I pet it while it was in the net, and he calmed right down and actually purred, but then as soon as I tried to lift him, he flipped out and ended up getting out.

So now I am left trying to figure how to catch this. He doesn't let me get too close ever since the net incident and the trap has not proven useful.

Is there anything else I should be trying? I am thinking about calling a vet to see if there is something I could put in the food to knock it out (like feed it, and then follow it around waiting for him to fall asleep.

I really want to catch him because a parking garage in the middle of a big city is no place for a cat...

Thanks!


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*

Wow. Welcome to CatForum and THANK YOU :luv for trying to make a difference and save this poor, abandoned kitty! 
You really have tried a lot of great ideas. Unfortunately, they are all the same ones I would have suggested. I would *not* recommend sedating the cat, because as the sedation begins to take effect, they get a little freaked because they're feeling weird and their body doesn't work right. This can be dangerous if he retreats to an area you cannot reach and/or gets into a dangerous situation they cannot get themselves out of; traffic, in/under a car, other inaccessible areas or even missing a critical jump they usually are able to make with ease.
Can you try covering the cat trap with a large towel, so it looks more 'cave-like' and not like a 'cage'? You already know because of your experience that once you 'catch' him, secure him before trying to love and reassure him.

I once caught an entire litter of kittens in one large trap by rigging it to spring, not with the floor-trip-plate, but with me having to manually pull a string to allow the trap to snap closed. Doing it in this manner allowed me to wait until all of the kittens had entered the trap, instead of only trapping whoever first stepped on the trip-plate.
Good luck, and I wish I had more to offer. Please keep us updated, I would so love for this to have a successful and happy ending!
heidi =^..^=


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## khannonnd (Jan 31, 2010)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*

Thanks for the reply; I have had the cage covered with a blanket (I've also tried without it), but he hasn't seemed interested. He literally has sat out at the opening staring in at it.

What worries me is that he seems to be at teh very edge of becoming full blown feral. He is getting less and less trusting of me (probably because of the net incident, haha)... I dunno.

Part of me wonders if he is wary about the smaller size of the cage (it's a cat trap, but he seems to be wary of it)... Maybe if I tried to get a larger trap he would be more comfortable going in and I could trigger it manually. I worked for Animal Control when I was in high school and I never saw a cat so intuitive regarding a trap before, haha. I hope I can catch him. He is really a pretty cat--- looks part siamese. He doesn't deserve to have to live in a parking garage.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*

What are you baiting with? Canned food? I've usually been very successful with canned food. Maybe you could use canned food IN the trap (at the back), but place a small amount outside the trap and maybe another small bit just inside the trap ... sort of leading him in?


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## khannonnd (Jan 31, 2010)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*

haha tried the lead in trick.

I'm using canned chicken cat food. I also tried tuna. and leftover roasted chicken my wife made for dinner.

**** I almost found myself getting caught in the trap! :lol:


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## faithless (Dec 4, 2009)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*

Im sure hes acting quite rationally being fearful of humans and you when you try to trap him. Hes just looking at experience of humans so far. So far, theyve been bad news. I can imagine that he feels his circumstances are too dangerous to take the added risk of climbing into an enclosed space for food even if hes hungry. Wouldnt the way to go be to try to make him comfortable in the garage for a week or two before catching him? Its like hes hanging around people because because he wants to trust someone, but he doesnt dare to yet after whats just happened.



> I really want to catch him because a parking garage in the middle of a big city is no place for a cat...


Oh I see. Hmmm. I think I'd go down with treats and just spend several hours moving really slowly and at his height all the time at a comfortable distance for him, be prepared to stay at that distance for a long time, if your eyes meet, wink slowly as a smile but dont stare, yawn slowly and relaxedly, talk quietly and friendly, etc and get closer really slowly. She comes when you call, so that should be a good start. I think thats what Id try to do anyway.


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## khannonnd (Jan 31, 2010)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*

That is a good idea. You are definitely right-- he is in a middle ground between between being domesticated and feral right now.

Perfect example: about an hour ago I went down to see if I could find him. I called out "kitty kitty" loudly and he started crying from across the parking garage (roughly 125 yards away, around a corner). I walked to where he was and just sat there making chattering noises at him for like 15 minutes (he was under a car and wouldn't let me get too close) then walked back to the elevator. Something told me to go back and check on him, so I walked back down with some food and in the 5 minutes between me going back up and coming back down he had come to where I normally get off the elevator. So obviously he isn't completely scared of people.

I used the canned food to make another trail to the cat trap and put the rest in. Then I walked back a bit and sure enough he went right in, eating the food up until the panel that sets the trap. Then he just stared at the rest of the food and left the cage. I ended up taking the trap back upstairs because I don't want him having to sit in an exposed trap for 6-7 hours if he were to go in it while I am sleeping (I have noticed he won't go in the trap at all if it is covered...)

I am thinking your idea is a good one-- socialize with him as much as I can. What I will do is use a cat carrier and I will start leaving the food in it at night so he gets used to being in it. Then, if I can get him comfortable with being in the cat carrier while I am around, I can catch him. I guess I just have to be more patient; its hard to be, though, when I hear him cry the way he does!


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## faithless (Dec 4, 2009)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*



> I called out "kitty kitty" loudly and he started crying from across the parking garage (roughly 125 yards away, around a corner). I walked to where he was and just sat there making chattering noises at him for like 15 minutes (he was under a car and wouldn't let me get too close) then walked back to the elevator.


I think hes just dying for you to give him a good enough reason to take the plunge and trust you. Im not sure about the carrier though, if he's decided it looks threatening, he might not quite trust you as long as thats visible, but I could be wrong. You'll have to play it by ear, I guess.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*

Oh! Oh! Oh! I'm excited!










NDLaw2009 said:


> ...sure enough he went right in, eating the food _up until the panel that sets the trap_. Then he just stared at the rest of the food and left the cage.


If the kitty goes into the trap up to the trip-plate ... is that far enough to "catch" him in the trap? Can you rig the trap and spring it yourself with a quick tug on a string? 

_...do a couple test-runs to see what length of string you need, how strong the string is and how firmly you need to pull to spring the trap._


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## OctoberinMaine (Sep 12, 2006)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*

Good luck with this . . . I'm so hoping for a happy outcome here!


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## katlover13 (Apr 15, 2008)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*

Sounds like a very smart little cat! Maybe he has been trapped before and isn't about to let it happen again. Poor little thing, I hope you are able to get him real soon.


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## khannonnd (Jan 31, 2010)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*

Update: no news  He still won't let me get more than 10 feet close to him even though he will come to me when I call. I have been feeding him in the same place every day and it has gotten to the point where he will eat out of a cat carrier (as long as I am not around).

Still no luck with the trap.

I am thinking I can't catch him; I haven't seen an improvement after 2 weeks of constant interaction (I think other people may be trying to capture him with more aggressive tactics, thus undermining my attempts to get him to trust people). I guess my question is this:

I have examined the garage pretty carefully. There doesn't appear to be any "dangerous" places a disoriented cat could get caught. I feed him c. 2am so there isn't a lot of traffic coming in and out at that time. If the options were to leave him or sedate him with a very small (c. 1-2 mg) Valium dose, what would you guys do? The big issue, of course, will be finding a vet that would make the prescription without seeing the cat...


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*

...I just don't know if I could do it, unless it was a very fast-acting sedative, and even then I'd be very concerned about something going horribly wrong.

What about the suggestion of the cat trap rigged with a light rope? Does he go far enough in to be able to safely pull the rope and spring the trap to catch him? If not, can you get a larger trap? I've 'rented' a trap from our county Animal Control. I leave them $50 cash and they give me the trap for a week, I think. When I return the trap I get my $50 cash back. If the trap isn't returned they use that $50 to replace it. They had cat and dog traps.


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## faithless (Dec 4, 2009)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*



> I have been feeding him in the same place every day and it has gotten to the point where he will eat out of a cat carrier (as long as I am not around).


Youre so close...yet so far.


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## khannonnd (Jan 31, 2010)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*

Ya, the local Humane Society has traps that I can rent on a deposit, the problem is he doesn't go far enough in that I could manually trigger it without the rather heavy door closing on his back (and when he gets spooked he immediately goes OUT not IN).

My thought was crushing the Valium into the food, and then following him around for the 20-30 minutes it would take to act. But the concern I have (that was mentioned above) would be him getting spooked that his body started to act "off" and having him just run off aimlessly...

Ugh. Ive been so stressed about this because I just want him indoors and safe...


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*



NDLaw2009 said:


> Ugh. Ive been so stressed about this because I just want him indoors and safe...


I know it. I know it! atback If it is any consolation, I'm also a bit of an uptight mess hoping that you'll be able to catch him. Do you think he would go far enough into a larger trap to be able to spring it?

How comfortable is he with you being nearby while he eats? Is he very jumpy or does he hang around quite relaxed, as long as you don't make any sudden moves? A tranquilizer may work *if* he is okay with you being nearby. When I had to take Rusty in to the vet, they gave me a half a pill of something. I was told to give it to him 30min before his appointment time. It took affect quickly; his eyes dilated and he became uncoordinated w/in 15min or so. By 30min, he was very loopy. Not 'out', but definitely uncoordinated. I was able to get him in the carrier but at the vet office when they were handling him, he became aggitated and they had to put a towel over him and keep only one leg out for the shot.
I do not know the name of the pill.
You would have to speak with a vet and explain all you've been doing and see if they can help you in catching this elusive kitty.
IF you think you can do this with him, have a carrier ready and I think I would also use a large fishing net to initially capture him. You don't know how he will react when he is drugged and captured. Keep yourself safe. If he gets aggitated with the net and you can't get him out of the net and into the carrier, have a large pillowcase or bedsheet handy to wrap him up in and carry him tangled up in that. You may also want to keep him tangled in the net, too.


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## khannonnd (Jan 31, 2010)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*

and Katlover: he looks a lot like your "Orlando" but seal point instead of flame point.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*

Oh! He's a _Meezer_! How could anyone dump a Meezer?!


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## khannonnd (Jan 31, 2010)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*

Thanks Heidi,

I am going to talk to a vet. I already have a big fishing net (that I almost was able to get him with 2 weeks ago) so I would def. use that. I just hope I can find a vet to go along with this. I HAVE valium from a previous medical procedure (5 mg tablets-- I could shave off 1/5 of it into food for a cat-sized dose), but I obviously don't want to do a thing without a vet advising me.

I figure if I can catch him, I can set up a nice little bed for him in our bathroom so that I could calm him down/socialize with him before releasing him to the apartment writ large.


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## khannonnd (Jan 31, 2010)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*

I'll take a picture of him tonight. He is gorgeous. When he meows it breaks my heart. its like he is crying...


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*



NDLaw2009 said:


> I'll take a picture of him tonight. He is gorgeous. When he meows it breaks my heart. its like he is crying...


Oooooooohhhhhhhh! I so hope you can catch this kitty. 


I put all new fosters and ferals who need taming/socializing in my Master Bath. I give them food, water, litterbox and a 'cave' made out of a cat carrier with a soft towel in the bottom and a towel draped over the top, to make it seem more enclosed and 'safe'.
I like to use my bathroom because it is easy to clean and small, with few hiding places other than what I give the cat. I want them to feel safe, but I feel I need to have access to them in an emergency (evacuation) situation and I do NOT like to allow them access to hiding in inaccessable places like under heavy/large furniture.
That's all you need to start with. 
*_closes eyes to send good thoughts and capturing wishes_*


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## khannonnd (Jan 31, 2010)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*

This is the kitty. He needs a bath, lol. I think he is 6-8 months old... maybe I am underestimating his age...


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*

Hey, pretty boy! He's a beautiful Lynx Point and I agree with you, I think he could be a little older than 6mo, maybe closer to 10mo. ...it could also be his fluffy fur that is making him look 'bigger/older', too.
Those eyes!  He looks like he *wants* to trust and love. Oh, I hope he lets you catch him. _Here kitty, kitty, kitty!_

...need to get to bed, I'll check back after I've slept.
h


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## hoofmaiden (Sep 28, 2009)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*

You're using a wire "Havahart" type trap? Be sure to put cardboard on the wire floor. You have to test it to make sure the cardboard doesn't interfere w/ the closing mechanism, but this does the trick for some cats. They don't like walking in on the wire, so may be more likely to enter w/ the cardboard in place. A cut-up corrogated box works. 

Good luck!


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## OctoberinMaine (Sep 12, 2006)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*

What a beautiful kitty. Keeping my fingers crossed!


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## katlover13 (Apr 15, 2008)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*

What a handsome cat! 

Have you tried catnip on him? Maybe that would mellow him out some. Or luring him closer with feather toys.

I can't wait to read this thread when it says GOT HIM!


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## Chrysalis (Oct 10, 2009)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*

Just remember to be patient! You have no idea what kind of home your cat came from... he could have been abused, neglected, etc.... so he might not have a good opinion of people. 

We've had Moxie since for about 4 months, took a month for her to stop being skittish around us, and that's with nearly 24/7 interaction, and she STILL runs off to hide when visitors come, no matter how many times they've been over and held/petted her. 

What helped was: Crouching down to her level, but not _over_ her (being so big scared her), spraying some Feliway (perhaps you could leave a blanket/cardboard pieces with it?), talking to her calmly, not making any sudden or unpredictable movements, blinking at her.  

Two weeks is not a lot of time, so don't give up.  We also caught Moxie in a parking lot so I know what it's like to be worried about cars and such. Just keep hanging out there and let him begin trusting you.


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## khannonnd (Jan 31, 2010)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*

I just picked up another cat trap. Similar size as the last one, but this one seems more "sensitive."

I am going to set it out tonight in the exact location as the cat carrier he has been going into to eat for the past week. I put a big bath towel at the bottom of the cat carrier, so I am going to move that into the bottom of the trap (so that he smells himself on it). Then I will cover the trap with a blanket. I am going to do this c. midnight so there aren't many people around (and that is the time I have been feeding him).

Hopefully tonight is the night!


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*



NDLaw2009 said:


> Hopefully tonight is the night!


Eyes crossed? Check.
Toes crossed? Check.
Legs crossed? Check.
Fingers crossed? Cjhercvkl.


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## khannonnd (Jan 31, 2010)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*

Got him.

He is scared in the cage... He isn't hissing at all. I am afraid to let him out because I think he will fly around and hurt himself... How long should I leave him in the cage?


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## khannonnd (Jan 31, 2010)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*

Nevermind, I let him out and have been petting him for like 15 minutes. He is currently purring and kneading a soft blanket in a cat carrier. LOL.

Now I just need to give him a bath, get him his shots, get him fixed, and find him a home 

ANyone in Southern California want a cute, rescued kitty?


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*

He's adorable! Congratulations, you've just changed his entire life.  

He looks smaller in the cage than he did under the car, poor little guy.

Are you going to place any "found" ads (Craigslist, etc.) to see if anyone is missing him? The people who dumped him out of the car may not be his real owners. They could have taken him out of spite, or just to be mean.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*

OMGOMGOMGOMGOMG!!!!!
AWESOME NEWS!


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*

First, I am overjoyed that you were able to catch him and that he is settling in with you already. That is great news. Good food and some quality time with him will do wonders. Give him around a week to become fully comfortable. Be aware that he may not eat or use the litterbox in the first day or so, but he already sounds relaxed with you, so he may not be reticent. 
Good job!
h

PS:
_I would put off any baths. If you just give him a clean place to be, changing out his bedding (towels?) every day, as he eats and becomes more relaxed and comfortable, the dirt will rub off onto the towels and he will begin to groom himself. If you *must* clean him up, I would not try any water-immersion, I would use a warm-damp washcloth and just lightly scrubble-rub him all over._


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*

I'm off to bed, I am just so tickled that you caught him! Have you given him a name, yet?


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## khannonnd (Jan 31, 2010)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*



Heidi n Q said:


> First, I am overjoyed that you were able to catch him and that he is settling in with you already. That is great news. Good food and some quality time with him will do wonders. Give him around a week to become fully comfortable. Be aware that he may not eat or use the litterbox in the first day or so, but he already sounds relaxed with you, so he may not be reticent.
> Good job!
> h
> 
> ...


Good point. I will hold off on the baths and such.

I can't quite tell if he is settling in or just too stunned to put up a fight. He is definitely purring (though softly) and doing this gentle kneading (there is a little blanket I have that is this really soft material that he seems to like).

My concern is that right now he is in the bathroom and it gets absolutely no ambient light--if the light switch in there is turned off, it is pitch black. Is that ok for him tonight or will the lack of being able to see freak him out? If I leave the light on it makes a loud noise that might keep him from relaxing.

I am hoping that by Sunday I can let him out into the bedroom at large (after some cat proofing).


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*

I don't think he'd mind the darkness. 

Can _you_ keep him? I might have missed if you said you couldn't.


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## khannonnd (Jan 31, 2010)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*

Oh, and his name is Herbie because

(a) I found him in a garage with a bunch of cars
(b) When I was a kid, my favorite car was Herbie the Love Bug from the 1967 movie and he is kind of colored like Herbie (minus the racing stripe!).


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## khannonnd (Jan 31, 2010)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*



marie73 said:


> I don't think he'd mind the darkness.
> 
> Can _you_ keep him? I might have missed if you said you couldn't.


I would love to, but my concern is fairness to my other pets (3 parakeets). I think even if I could somehow cat proof their cage, they would still be very stressed by the presence of something that their instincts tell them is a predator.

My goal is to find him a home. One of my co-workers has been looking for a cat, and he is a good guy and would be a responsible owner. If not him, I am going to look elsewhere and find him not just any home, but a good home.


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*

No, you're right to think of your birds first.

Herbie is a great name!

I thought you might go with a Notre Dame-themed name.


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## khannonnd (Jan 31, 2010)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*



marie73 said:


> No, you're right to think of your birds first.
> 
> Herbie is a great name!
> 
> I thought you might go with a Notre Dame-themed name.


Ha, well one of the parakeets is named Rudy and Herbie just leapt out at me because of his lynx-point coloration. haha.


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## faithless (Dec 4, 2009)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*



> I can't quite tell if he is settling in or just too stunned to put up a fight. He is definitely purring (though softly) and doing this gentle kneading (there is a little blanket I have that is this really soft material that he seems to like).



He's knocked out! The fact that he was meowing down there just shows he was calling out for help.


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## katlover13 (Apr 15, 2008)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*

Great news that you got him! How different his life will be now because of you.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*

You could see how he does in the bath/bedroom. IMO, as long as they will come to me comfortably and relaxed for food and/or attention, that is when I let my fosters have access to the bedroom attached to the bathroom during times when I am not sleeping. If he has to stay in there, you could get a small night-light. If there is no window to allow light, he would need at least a little bit of illumination to be able to 'see-in-the-dark' with his feline night vision skills.


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## khannonnd (Jan 31, 2010)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*

Right now he is just sitting in the back of the cat carrier (ALL the way in the back) looking scared still. He isn't hissing and I can pet him but he doesn't seem "happy" to be there, lol. I'm hoping he relaxes a bit.


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## OctoberinMaine (Sep 12, 2006)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*

What great news that you got him!! You are really to be congratulated for your perseverance.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*



NDLaw2009 said:


> Right now he is just sitting in the back of the cat carrier (ALL the way in the back) looking scared still. He isn't hissing and I can pet him but he doesn't seem "happy" to be there, lol. I'm hoping he relaxes a bit.


Well, he is unsure of himself and everything is new and scary. I think that is great that he isn't hissing. Just keep visiting him often and offering Good Things. You want him to see you as The Bringer Of Good Things: like food-treats, gentle handling that feels good to him and as he relaxes, some toys. Visit him and interact with him often. It may be slow at first, just sitting/talking, offering treats and some petting but I bet that each day and with each visit, he will grow to trust you more/more and will slowly open up to you. Slow and Steady wins this race. You're making a great start!


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## khannonnd (Jan 31, 2010)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*

well he didn't seem happy in the bathroom, so I decided I would bring him onto the bed just to pet him. 

He seems more comfortable here, lol


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*

Aaaaaahhhhh, so he *was* a housecat! He may have thought he was in the bathroom being 'punished'.  
How is he behaving otherwise? Alert? Interested? Does he want to explore or just rest? Is he eating well?
He looks so beautiful, I wish I could take him.
h =^..^=


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## khannonnd (Jan 31, 2010)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*

He ate an entire can of food and is currently washing himself (which is good because he didnt do that yesterday despite having gotten all messy in the cage with the food).

He is very alert--looking around and stuff---but he doesnt seem interested in getting off the bed. He is still wary about my wife. He will let her pet him, but he flattens his ears whenever she comes up to him and then he runs over to me. lol.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*

Oooooh! Poor kitty, he's learned he can trust you, now he just needs to learn he can trust your wife, too. Maybe she can be The Bringer Of Good Things for a while, to win him over?

Ask her to not look him directly in his eyes, cats can see that as a sign of aggression and become defensive. Have her look to the side of him, or look at his eyes and then slowly and deliberately *blink* at him, that is sign-language for a cat meaning "I trust you to not have to watch you". She can also look at him and catch his gaze, then *sigh* and slide her gaze away from him. Before touching, 'ask' to touch him by extending your hand, fingers together (to not look like claws) and I think I usually extend mine palm up(?) and slightly turned towards me w/ back-of-hand towards the kitty ... but I can't really remember, that just seems to be my preference with cats I don't know: protect my delicate palm/fingers. When they sniff, then pet. If they duck away, don't pursue it, ducking away is the cat saying they just aren't ready right now. With consistency, they will eventually learn to trust. I like to communicate with body language: relaxed posture, closed mouth smiling (no teeth yet, that could be seen as aggressive), blinking eyes and sighing - everyone relaxes when they take a deep breath and slowly let it out and it is both a visual and auditory clue to the cat about your non-threatening intentions.
Gotta run, but I am so happy Herbie is with you and your wife! :luv I just _know_ he'll turn into The Love Bug for you both!


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## khannonnd (Jan 31, 2010)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten*

So Closure.

This cat is very sweet and very manipulative. My wife, who only let me try to catch him on the understanding that we would be finding him a home that is not ours, now wants to keep him.

We are going to see over the week how our birds respond to seeing him (and if we keep him, he will be kept in our bedroom while we are gone just to be safe), but he seems very happy here. We are taking him in to get neutered in 2 weeks.










Thanks for all of your help and support!


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten [CLOSURE!]*

Awwww, that's such a sweet ending!

I'm sure he'll have you both trained in no time.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten [CLOSURE!]*

LOOK at that Supremely Satisfied FACE! That is a cat that _knows_ he's "home". :luv What a lucky boy Herbie was to have landed with you both.


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## faithless (Dec 4, 2009)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten [CLOSURE!]*

hes a beaut 
I think you mean hes considering keeping your wife?


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## gunterkat (Aug 19, 2006)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten [CLOSURE!]*

I have been following this thread, keeping everything crossable, crossed!
You have done a *Great Thing* for Herbie.

You can try giving him a 'dry bath' with cornstarch, so he won't ingest so much toxic "garage floor stuff" when he grooms himself. It'll just feel to him like you're scrubbling his fur. Take a handful of cornstarch in each hand, and starting on his sides, rub it into his fur, thoroughly but gently. Apply more as needed. The starch will absorb oily, yucky stuff, and you can easily brush it out of his coat. An area lined with a towel or newspaper limits the mess. 
Less stressful for human and cat than a wet bath, and better for the cat than leaving nasty stuff in his coat. :wink:
You and your wife are Herbie's Heroes!


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## OctoberinMaine (Sep 12, 2006)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten [CLOSURE!]*

This is the best story I've read on here in a long time. I'm so glad he's staying with you! He looks so happy and comfortable to be on that bed.

I know you said there's closure, but I hope that doesn't mean we won't hear from you again. More pictures are always great, and I look forward to hearing how he continues to do in your house. Who knows, you may find it's no big deal to have him around your birds either.


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## khannonnd (Jan 31, 2010)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten [CLOSURE!]*

Last night was a funny night. He started by sleeping on the bed with us, then jumped down and slept in between the curtain and the window on our full length window. I think he liked to watch the cars go by at night.

He loves to be petted, but I have also noticed that if no one is in the room, he will eventually try to make his way under the bed. I figure he feels safer under there. My wife and I have tried to block off all ways under the bed, but he constantly finds his way under there. Each time I see him there, I pull him out, put him onto the bed and play with him for awhile. Am I right in thinking I shouldn't let him get used to being under the bed?


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## gunterkat (Aug 19, 2006)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten [CLOSURE!]*

I'm guessing that being under the bed reminds him of his 'safe place' in the garage, under unoccupied cars. If this truly is the case, pulling him out from under the bed, then rewarding him with play and petting, will motivate him even more to hide under the bed. 
You'll be unwittingly reinforcing this behavior, making it part of a game. 
My suggestion is to wait at one of his favorite play spots for him to come out on his own. Or you can call him to you. When Herbie comes to you, Then you can reward him with treats and/or play. This way you reinforce the behavior of coming out from under the bed and coming to you, not the hiding behavior. :wink:


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten [CLOSURE!]*

I'm so glad you got him!  John gave you some great ideas!


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten [CLOSURE!]*

Cinderella sometimes sleeps for hours under the bed. It's her "go-to" place. When someone comes to the door, even though they have another bedroom to choose from, all four go under the bed together. It may always be his safe place.


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## faithless (Dec 4, 2009)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten [CLOSURE!]*

I've done the opposite. Sometimes she likes to retreat and be on her own, just like a human, so she has a spot on a guitar case under my bed that she uses. Ive made that comfortable for her and pulled it so I can reach it from my bed. Sometimes, when she doesnt sleep in my bed, I can reach down and stroke her in the dark on the guitar case and she lies there beneath my pillow purring, so shes clearly quite happy down there. She also makes me make my bed every day because around mid-day she likes to sneak under the covers and snooze for an hour there.

My personal opinion is that cats are too smart to suddenly forget everything in their past and trust you with their lives only after a couple of days.


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## khannonnd (Jan 31, 2010)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten [CLOSURE!]*

That's a great idea, Faithless, and very true. Thanks!


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## StitchyKitty (Jan 3, 2010)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten [CLOSURE!]*

I've been watching your thread for quite a while now and I'm so happy you decided to keep Herbie. He is such a gorgeous cat. I hope that you'll stay and keep us updated on him, and how he's doing. I think I can speak for everyone here in saying that we would love to see more pictures of Herbie!


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## OctoberinMaine (Sep 12, 2006)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten [CLOSURE!]*

Murphy's daytime sleeping place is under the bed in our guest room, and I've always made sure to leave him alone under there. I think we owe them that . . . let them get the heck away from us, if that's what they need at that time, and let them come out when they're ready.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten [CLOSURE!]*

I like the way Holly said that. 
The only time I do not allow cats to retreat completely away from me is if they will not come to me willingly. After they *do* become socialized enough to come when called and/or offered food, I then allow them access wherever they'd like to be. It is only when I first get the ferals and poorly-socialized cats that need to improve their skills in cat-people interaction that I prevent them from retreating completely. After we've conditioned them to people being Good Things then it doesn't matter if they want to find an out-of-the-way and safe/secure snuggle place. I just make sure I know *where* all those places are in case I need to find them and/or do a head-count.


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## Alpaca (Dec 21, 2009)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten [CLOSURE!]*

I just found this thread and it's so heartwarming. I'm so happy, brings tears to my eyes. It's wonderful to hear happy endings such as this. Herbie looks so content and cozy in that last picture!

Reminds me of the time I caught a stray kitten with my bare hands. I remember her hissing at me like a banshee when I caught her. I didn't have a trap nor did I know to use one. Guess I was lucky. Some other people were trying to catch the entire litter. I had no cat experience at the time, but it was cold outside and I felt sorry for the kittens. I tried to catch her siblings too, but I had a dinner appointment I was late for. I did find her a home with my sister's ex-bf. I heard she's a mean little devil now who swipes at everyone as they walk by her cat tree. LOL!


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## khannonnd (Jan 31, 2010)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten [CLOSURE!]*

He remains happy. He eats a LOT, but for the most part he spends the overwhelming majority of time sleeping or playing on our bed (he may just like having a soft place to lay down!). He has started to play a lot. We got a couple of little furry ball toys that he likes to wrestle with , throw, and then go catch. He is a big love and kneads everywhere when he is petted. I am hoping eventually he gets comfortable to come off the bed and explore a bit more! 

This Sunday he is going in to get his vaccinations and a check up. I put advantage on him last night and already the fleas are falling off. 

His big "N" day is a week from Saturday.


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## gunterkat (Aug 19, 2006)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten [CLOSURE!]*

Herbie is bathing in the luxury of having a loving home and a nice, clean, soft bed, for a change. :luv 
If only he could talk...


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## khannonnd (Jan 31, 2010)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten [CLOSURE!]*

He does in a way, haha.

Every night between 3am-5am he either lays looking out the window or comes up to my face and starts meowing softly. He is kind of on a weird sleep cycle (I think when he lived in the garage, he only came out/was active late late at night when garage traffic was slower). I think he gets annoyed when I am asleep/not paying attention to him.


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## gunterkat (Aug 19, 2006)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten [CLOSURE!]*

Cats are instinctively nocturnal creatures. Sometimes they adapt their sleep cycle to match their humans, sometimes not. 
No doubt he had adjusted to be active when the garage has the least activity. 

When he softly meows at you in the wee hours of the morning, is he kneading his paws? What's his body language like as he meows?

Here's a link to an article with some basics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_body_language

This article is a good start. 

You'll find that cats are much more intelligent than the typical 'cat stereotype'. 
Sadly, it seems the cats who have had the hardest lives are the most intelligent. This is probably due to natural selection. The smartest, most adaptable ones are the ones who make it.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten [CLOSURE!]*

Herbie sounds like he is doing wonderful! I remember when I first brought in Floofy, he was filthy-dirty and his fur looked terrible but he seemed so happy to be somewhere warm and have people to fuss over him.
_In fact, on Valentine's Day it will have been 3yrs since I took him in and he became ours!_ :luv 
Anyhow, The Floof was very content to just lay around and bask in the attention. As he replenished his depleted body-reserves he became more playful and exploratory. It wasn't long before he had integrated into the rest of the household.
I'm looking forward to more photos of Herbie as he gets settled in.  


Floofy's first day, looking rough:








A few months later, all clean and fluffed-out:


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## khannonnd (Jan 31, 2010)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten [CLOSURE!]*

when he meows at night, if he is at the window he is just laying there staring out the window. If he is on the bed he is kneading the bed.

I think some of his sleepiness may be we weren't feeding him enough. I know he isn't a "kitten" but he is definitely not full grown right now. I realized the can of food (and some places online) said that you should feed young cats TWO cans. So I started doing that yesterday (one in the morning before I go to work, one at dinner time) and sure enough he eats them both and seems to have more energy.

He definitely seems happy. I'll take more pictures tonight!


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## khannonnd (Jan 31, 2010)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten [CLOSURE!]*

So a new wrinkle.

After having him live in our bedroom for a week to get acclimated, we started leaving the door to the living room open so he could come explore. He came out yesterday and was slowly exploring.

Until he saw my birds (We have three parakeets in a largish green cage that sits on an end table next to our couch). He sat on the floor looking up at the birds, transfixed for a good 5 minutes. The birds didn't seem to care about his presence at all. 

Then he made his move.

He jumped up to the cage and grabbed on to it. This caused the cage to start to fall (I was sitting right there to observe so I kept it from falling). Herbie flew back into the bed room and the birds started going nuts. If I wasn't right there the cage would've fallen on Herbie. 

My wife is concerned that Herbie and the birds can't co-exist and that we should give Herbie to one of the two people who have said they will take him (all of whom would be good, responsible cat owners). Its hard for me to give him up after (a) the efforts taken to catch him and (b) having gotten attached to him. I had a couple of questions for you guys:

(1) Do any of you have any experience with cats and birds living in the same house? Is it possible that what I saw was the result of Herbie being relatively young? Does this "hunter" instinct mellow out with age?

(2) The other option for us keeping him is that he would be a bedroom only cat. We live in an apartment that has a main living room/kitchen and then a bedroom with bathroom attached. The bedroom isn't HUGE but its a nice size, with a full length sliding glass door with a view of the outside world. For the past week Herbie hasn't shown any interest in leaving the room/discontent at being confined to the space. While I want to keep Herbie, my human instinct tells me that that is not fair to him. Am I wrong?

Thanks, gus. The long and short of it is I know that whatever I do, he will be better than he would be in a garage, haha!


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## Muzby (Jan 9, 2008)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten [CLOSURE!]*

We have birds and cats. Whom all lived together realatively well! So it IS possible. 

When we first got our two new (at the time) kittens, they were soooo interested. But, with training and time, they got over it. Now.. they still would sit and stare every so often, but I also find that budgies are so fast moving it's harder to train them not to want to play with them. I will say again, HARDER not IMPOSSIBLE. When you say he easily knocked over the cage, it makes me wonder how big the cage is? For three 'keets I would expect a cage not easily knocked over by a cat... something 18x21x18 would likely be minimum for three of the active lil guys (unless you give them out of cage time?).

There are a couple things you can do to keep yourbudgies safer as well: put the cage higher up (make a floating shelf and anchor it on studs in your wall), and secure it to the base/wall as well. 

Also, I would never allow kitty free house access unless you are there in the bird room to watch.

Here was our set-up, so you can see how ours worked.









(you can see our couch was directly infront of the cage, so they could sit and watch the birds if they wanted)


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## sweetyanna (Apr 13, 2008)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten [CLOSURE!]*

I have been following this thread for awhile. This story is so very touching! As for the birds, I don't have experience with it. However, I have a friend that has lived in a small studio, probably no bigger than a bedroom of a house for a year and him and his cat lived in it. His cat seemed quite content. Although I do understand that you want to give him as much space as you can, you are also attached to the little fur baby. I guess I would see what I can do to have him and the birds co-exist or give the bedroom living a trial. If he seems happy, I would personally keep him. Then again, if you feel he will be happier with new owners, that is an option too. However, he's is just too cute and I'd want to keep him, that was also help me ensure that he has a good home if I'm the one providing it .


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## khannonnd (Jan 31, 2010)

*Re: Catching an abandoned kitten [CLOSURE!]*

Ya, talking to some people around here suggests that living in the room will be fine. 

Regarding the bird cage, it is bigger than 18x18x21 (its a nice size) but I think the force behind his jump combined with the table the cage sits on (its a tripod) caused it to start to tip. We are just going to monitor him closely when he is out, combined with a stern warning when he comes around the cage.

A new concern. So for the past week we have been feeding him 2 small cans of food a day--- one in the morning, one in the evening. His sleep pattern has been pretty consistent: more active during the night, sleeping for the most part during the day.

Today, because he seems to enjoy dry food, we are doing half dry food, half wet food. I'm not sure if this is a coincidence, but today he seems to be unusually lethargic. During the evening (starting c. 8pm) he had been looking to play/wrestle with his various toys. He hasn't seemed interested in doing that. Additionally, he did not like being taken out of the bedroom (we take him out to try to socialize him to the entire apartment)---he would just turn around and run back into the bedroom. Today he is sitting on the couch just laying there.

I am worried he may be sick. He has been eating/drinking like normal and his stool seems normal (no diarrhea, no odd colors, etc.). Are there any other signs I should be looking at? He has a vet appointment for his shots this Saturday, but I am wondering if I should take him to a vet sooner...


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

...well... If i were me, I'd probably just relax and wait until his scheduled vet appointment. What you describe doesn't sound like enough of a behavior change to make me think 'vet' at this moment. I'd just watch him, monitor him and if he appears to sink into lethargy, stop eating/drinking and/or hide, then I would get concerned. It could have been the different food change(s) causing this and/or it could be he was just having an off-day. If he's normal in all other areas, I'd think he's good...
heidi =^..^=


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## faithless (Dec 4, 2009)

I live in a studio currently and Ive had no problems. I try to take her for a walk on a leash maybe 5 times a week in the evening which she enjoys, but its been too cold last 3 weeks and she's refused to be out for more than a couple of minutes. No signs of frustration. Sure it would be nice to offer her another kitty and some more space, but it sure beats the cardboard box she was dumped in.


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## sweetyanna (Apr 13, 2008)

I would personally call the vet and describe it, they usually do not charge for calls and s/he will give you a good idea of what to look out for. I had a similar experience when I adopted my kitty from a shelter. He became lethargic and would isolate himself. Seems like you kept an eye out for most things, I'm finishing school to be a doctor (for humans though) and I know some alarming signs to be aware of that probably also apply to cats are:
-not eating or drinking for prolonged periods of time, especially at 24 hours
-respiratory distress (wheezing, drooling, breathing rapidly, anything that makes it look like the patient is really struggling with each breath)
-no or very limited/few bowel movements or voiding
-excessive vomiting
-signs of severe distress (writhing, crying, inconsolable, etc.)
-rapid/precipitous deterioration
-blood of any sort in any area e.g. stool, urine, vomit
-any signs of localized infections e.g. wounds, ears, etc.
But again, I'd call for the vet's advice to be safe. I hope he's doing well. Offer lots of cuddles and frequently offer food and drink! My cat when he was sick responded well to wet food that was slightly warm, it at least helped us ensure he got some food in at least.


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## khannonnd (Jan 31, 2010)

New Herbie picture:










He seems to be doing well. Lazy during the day, crazy hyper at night!


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

Hi Herbie! What beautiful blue eyes he has!

...sounds like a perfectly nocturnal rocket-butt kitteh! I love it when ours get going around the house. 11pm seems to be their favorite time to NASCAR race around the home.


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## gunterkat (Aug 19, 2006)

Aww, he'a adorable! :luv 

I :heart his blue eyes! He looks like a healthy, highly intelligent and inquisitive kitty. :luv


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## khannonnd (Jan 31, 2010)

Heidi n Q said:


> Hi Herbie! What beautiful blue eyes he has!
> 
> ...sounds like a perfectly nocturnal rocket-butt kitteh! I love it when ours get going around the house. 11pm seems to be their favorite time to NASCAR race around the home.


Heh, yup that's him.

He also has found some place to hide his toys. Which is odd because he is only in our bedroom. But we cannot find his toys anywhere. Nutty cat, haha.


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## faithless (Dec 4, 2009)

Hes got a smart look in his eyes in those photos. You may well be able to retrain his waking schedule. My gal is on the same schedule as me roughly. Ok, waking me up at 5am when she goes to the litterbox is not in my schedule, but she goes back to bed after that next to me and generally stays quiet between about 1 am and 8 am. If she does wake up during the night, she just goes and sits quietly looking out the window for a while before going back to bed again. She even lets me sleep in until about 10.30 on weekends.


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## OctoberinMaine (Sep 12, 2006)

Herbie is so beautiful! Just think, it was only a couple weeks ago you were chasing him around a parking garage.


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## sweetyanna (Apr 13, 2008)

Three cheers for Herbie! What a handsome boy! This story is so heart-warming. Your case would also be a great poster story for shelters and what animals go through. With a cute face like that, who _would_ turn him away? Can I squeeze him now? :wink:


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## khannonnd (Jan 31, 2010)

Took Herbie to the vet today. Not a good experience. The good news is he is very healthy (tested him for FIV, heartworms, FELV-- all negative. No microchip, so we got him microchipped. Also got his nails trimmed.

The bad thing is when he came back from the above, he had three blood stains (one on each front leg and one in the neck) and the little pin pricks were still bleeding (they didn't bother to clean them it looked like) and the microchip was protruding from the skin. Needless to say we will be finding another vet for the neutering procedure.

The vet took a look at his teeth and there was some plaque on them. Based on this he said Herbie is _at least_ 18 months old (prob. 2 years). This puts me in an ethical conundrum of sorts. One of my neighbors was the one who said she thought she saw him abandoned by someone in a car. She is more equivocal about that now, telling me he may have just been running from the car. I think there is at least a possibility that Herbie wasn't abandoned but rather lost. 

I know if I lost a cat, I would want to know if someone found him. On the other hand, he is a 2 year old cat who was never neutered and was living in a garage for at least a month. My apartment building doesn't have other apt complexes or homes nearby, so if he got lost from someone they must live here. But no one ever put up fliers either here or at the local humane society during the one month I know he was in the garage. 

I _know_ he will have a comfortable, safe home here... but is it unethical for me to not even try to see if I can find a previous owner?


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

It is only unethical if you think it is.
IMO, if someone really wanted to find their kitty they'd have posted it *everywhere*. When we lost Mister I printed up fliers, went door-to-door, posted at all public places, took an add in the paper and called/visited/fliered the vet offices, shelters and county pound. You can set your heart at ease by contacting vet offices or shelters to see if any reports of a lost male meezer were given in the past several months. Put a flyer in a visible area of the apartment's lobby or parking garage stating you found a cat, vet costs were $##.## and give a contact name/number. If no calls come in a week, I'd take the notice down and consider him yours.
There is a good chance he may not have been tossed from a car because it isn't uncommon for people who are moving to just leave their pets behind. It is awful, but it happens. He wasn't altered but he definitely had been socialized with people in order for him to have responded so well to you and your wife. Either that, or he recognized safety in you and your wife and decided to fully trust you with his life.

I've *never* had a cat still bleeding after it came home from the vet. That smacks of poor practices to me. Will you have to pay for another micro-chip insertion? _Maybe 1st vet will refund those chipping costs so you can have Better Vet do it properly..._


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## khannonnd (Jan 31, 2010)

He wasn't bleeding when we got him home--- only when the vet techs brought him back int the room (but before the vet had come to do his exam).

I caught the microchip thing today before we left, so I made them redo it (and scan Herbie right in front of me so I knew it was in there).

I am going to call the local humane society to see who they recommend. I just don't trust this place anymore. The vet tech apologized saying they were "really busy" --- as if that were an excuse to be sloppy with an animal.


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## sweetyanna (Apr 13, 2008)

I too suggest considering another doctor. That sounds like an extremely sloppy job. Then again, you may just have been the unlucky one in a million. There may be some vet review sources on the net or even google maps and other sites have reviews posted of various vet clinics. They seem to be pretty accurate with the usual few outliers. The humane societies should also have an idea of where to find reputable doctors. Something that also seems to help to get more attention for your pet is this (I learned by working in a people's clinic):
-schedule your pet as the first patient of the day, there is minimal if any wait and the doctor is most fresh and less in a hurry
-if you'd like, provide a very concise (~5 words max) description of why you are scheduling an appointment that the secretary can enter into the schedule. The doctor typically reads the schedule with the brief descriptions and roughly plans the visit according to what the description says. This will give more time to gather thoughts and possible solutions. 
-try to continue seeing the same vet every time to get a primary provider relationship for kitty, that doctor will know your kitty much better, you won't have to repeat your stories as much, and it personalizes the relationship between the three of you much better

From the description of where you live, it sounds like should someone have really wanted Herbie back, you may have heard at least something. Again, as Heidi said, if you will feel better, in addition to posting found fliers, you can try posting on classifieds on the net, as well as report your case to the humane societies. Where I live we have a government run domestic animal control center. Unclaimed animals usually stop there first as the vast majority of the humane societies and animal shelters know to tell people looking for lost pets to check there first for an easier and better consolidated re-uniting effort. If your city/state has one, perhaps call them and tell them you found a cat, inquire if there has been anyone looking for one matching Herbie's description and try to post a case in their database about Herbie as a found cat in case someone looks for him. 

How long you decide to wait for an owner to turn up is totally up to you. Two weeks sounds reasonable too.


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## OctoberinMaine (Sep 12, 2006)

Say you did post something about finding a cat, and someone responded . . . . is there something unique about Herbie, like a freckle or mole or something, that you could ask the person to tell you? I sure wouldn't feel comfortable handing him over to just anyone who responds.

As for the vet, I know only too well the pain of finding a good one. We've been to at least 5 in my town, and there was something kind of major wrong with each and every one of them. I guess you've got to prioritize what are deal-breakers and what aren't, and do the best you can. I'm also finding that my current vet is great for the routine stuff, but I wouldn't trust them to diagnose anything.


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## katlover13 (Apr 15, 2008)

A good vet is worth their weight in gold! There are way too few of them. I wasn't quite happy with mine so I made up a questionnaire and sent them around to several local vets. The only one I liked was a "cats only" vet who only had office hours when I am working. :roll: So I ended up staying with the one I had even though I don't think he is very good at diagnosing problems.

I can't think of any reasonable explanation for what happened to you with Herbie's microchip.


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## khannonnd (Jan 31, 2010)

Ya I have no idea what went on with the microchip. Working for the animal shelter, I inserted probably 150 microchips identical to the one Herbie has and I NEVER saw one half-in, half-out. 

My boss royally pampers her cocker spaniel. She would not tolerate anything less than the best vet, so I think I will ask her which vet she uses...

He is doing really good post-vet. My wife and I rearranged our bedroom to maximize space for Herbie. He hasn't shown any interest in leaving or exploring beyond our bedroom. Every now and then he comes to the door and looks out and just watches the birds, but after a stern "no" the last time he came near the cage he hasn't ventured forth, haha. 

I always heard Siamese cats have funny personalities, and he definitely does. He was stalking and pouncing on random things last night at like 3 am, haha.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

Yay for playful Herbie! ..._even though he probably woke you up with his playful games_...


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## sweetyanna (Apr 13, 2008)

I demand more Herbie pictures.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

We, want, Herbie! We, want, Herbie! We, want, Herbie! We, want, Herbie!


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## gunterkat (Aug 19, 2006)

Heidi n Q said:


> We, want, Herbie! We, want, Herbie! We, want, Herbie! We, want, Herbie!


_*pounds fist on computer desk while chanting*_
:lol: 



It sounds like Herbie is a very, very smart kitty, who remembers where he came from and doesn't want to take a chance he might go back to that hard life.
If only he could talk.


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## faithless (Dec 4, 2009)

who wouldnt have neutered a cat after 2 years? Wouldnt he be spraying his home?


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## khannonnd (Jan 31, 2010)

New Herbie pictures!














































He looks a lot better than:


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

Herbie looks AWESOME! ...and look at all the fabulous toys he has to play with, too! :luv


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## gunterkat (Aug 19, 2006)

What a difference a few weeks in a loving home can make!  

Thanks for the updated pix :wink:


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## khannonnd (Jan 31, 2010)

Oh he has lots of toys.

That streamer-like "Cat Charmer," 4 mice stuffed with cat nip, 3 balls that make a noise when hit, and a cat tower. We also got him a really soft bed right next to the window (he likes to lay by the window in the sun watching the world go by) but he seems to be deathly afraid of it. He won't step foot in it.

He is still quite the nocturnal terror--- about 1-2am he starts sulking around and then explodes. Running to and from, up and down the cat tower, then he grabs his toys and brings them all under the bed where we hear them get mauled. Then he comes out from under the bed and collapses on the floor and takes a nap. haha. He has the life, I think.


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## gunterkat (Aug 19, 2006)

Your description sounds exactly like a cat who was somebody's pet, then abandoned to survive on his own. 
Perhaps he was dumped because he didn't get along with a household dog or cat that was territorial and possessive about a nice soft bed.


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## khannonnd (Jan 31, 2010)

So, one behavior I noticed early on that he still displays but nowhere near as much as the first two weeks is noticeably flinching at first when I went to pet him. He did not do that ONCE when my wife went to pet him but every time with me. He would flatten his ears, close his eyes and jerk his head back at first and would only calm down after the first pet.

I think whatever he did that made his old owners mad resulted in him being struck. I have two theories as to what it may be: (a) he plays rough. Likes to play bite, and it can get a little hard (kind of like he gets carried away). I suspect him getting neutered may temper this a bit; (b) he doesn't just scrape the cat sand in the cat box, he like doggie digs and makes a mess. Regardless, neither warrant him being hit. He is starting to trust my wife and I, though, so I think he will turn a corner.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

NDLaw2009 said:


> So, one behavior I noticed early on ... is noticeably flinching ... when I went to pet him.
> He would flatten his ears, close his eyes and jerk his head back at first and would only calm down after the first pet.
> I think whatever he did that made his old owners mad resulted in him being struck.


Oh, poor baby! atback 
The more you interact with him the more he will grow to trust you. My husband has worked extensively this last year with Pretty, our former feral. She was a *challenging* case to tame and socialize, taking 4yrs to go from completely feral at TNR to being comfortable in the house and with handling. She hasn't progressed to the point of him being able to pick her up but I feel they are getting closer and closer to achieving that goal.

The litterbox mess ... with 'diggers' a litterbox with high sides or a dome/hood helps contain the mess. I also use vehicle floor-mats to catch litter between the toes as they exit the box.


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## faithless (Dec 4, 2009)

NDLaw2009 said:


> So, one behavior I noticed early on that he still displays but nowhere near as much as the first two weeks is noticeably flinching at first when I went to pet him. He did not do that ONCE when my wife went to pet him but every time with me. He would flatten his ears, close his eyes and jerk his head back at first and would only calm down after the first pet.


Sounds to me like it was the male in the household that was hitting him.

He really looks adorable and so much happier than in the car pics.


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## sweetyanna (Apr 13, 2008)

Agreed with everyone above. Sounds like it was the male and probably someone that was not too familiar with feline behavior. Thanks so much for posting again . He looks way happier and we all love a happy story!


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## BroganMc (Feb 28, 2010)

NDLaw2009 said:


> New Herbie pictures!


Herbie looks like the twin of our old housecat Peppermint. She was a feral kitten we rescued from Animal Control the day they came to our neighborhood to hunt down a feral colony. (They killed all her siblings within hours of trapping them. We were so furious about that.)

She lived out a long happy life as Queen of the Household with us. She demanded full access to every floor/room in the house and would complain loudly if we didn't leave the door open. She was always small and kittenlike even in her old age. She did grow especially fond of soft, comfy places. And she had a few hiding places she'd go off to for afternoon naps.

She was always skittish of guests and not fond of being held at all. But she bonded with my dad and shared his sleep schedule. She also waited for him at the door to get home and cried for him to go to bed. She didn't mind me too much but clearly only liked me second best.

Her play was rough as well. She got overexcited when I pet her and would reach out with claws and teeth at times. Not enough to sink in but enough to scratch. But then she'd greet us by wrapping herself around our legs and leaning in for a pet when we'd get home. She never lost her hunter instinct. There wasn't a mouse who survived long in our house.

I'm so happy to find this thread and see you and your wife opened your home to this kitty. Herbie looks like he's been waiting for this home all his life.

One thing you may employ more of as I did with my Pep. Before you reach out to pet Herbie, give him your fingers to sniff. The more you let him know you are only asking permission to love him, the more he'll trust you. I found that even though our Peppermint was always well treated and never hit, she was always skittish of loud noises and sudden movements. She had too much of the hunter in her.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

BroganMc said:


> Before you reach out to pet Herbie, give him your fingers to sniff. The more you let him know you are only asking permission to love him, the more he'll trust you.


Hi. Welcome to CatForum. I do this with our kitties, too. We also have some friends who had a cat they cautioned ALL guests to NOT try to pet because she would 'attack'. Well, both my husband and I were over and at seperate times we each offered our fingers for a sniff and then we were allowed to pet her. Our friends were *shocked* at their cat's calm acceptance of our touch.
...but I feel it is because we did like you explained; _we asked permission before touching her_.


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## BroganMc (Feb 28, 2010)

I actually do this with all animals. Talk softly, extend your hand for a sniff and wait for them to respond. If they flinch but don't run away or growl/hiss you can try to pet a little. Just a finger scratch. Let them see what you intend and realize it isn't unpleasant/hostile. Some very skittish animals don't realize what humans are asking them. Animals who know will either offer themselves for a stroke or walk away if they aren't interested.

If they run away then you have to resort to bribery (usually food) to get them past their fear. I don't engage them in play until they let me pet them. Otherwise I'm sending the message that I'm a big toy.

If at any time they growl or hiss, I back off entirely.

Years of growing up with dogs and cats taught me this lesson. Also on the do/don't lists are "never take food from an animal's mouth especially if it's meat", "never step on an animal's tail to see how it reacts", "always pay attention/pet the mama before you dare reach for the babies", and "challenge/yell/threaten a barking dog only if you want to get bit". I once had a jogger run down my street threatening my border collie with a stick because he escorted the jogger down the property line with a loud bark. Dog stayed on his property but fool jogger thought waving a stick at him and yelling was going to protect him. I recalled my dog before the idiot got himself bit and my poor dog in trouble with Animal Control.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

:luv Brogan, you do a lot of things I do when fostering, taming and socializing kitties for adoption. The only thing I do different is I do work past growling and hissing. The *only* reason why I do is because I am working for an adoption/rescue agency and the kitties have to be shown my intentions so they can learn to enjoy people to get adopted ... and I cannot teach them if they don't allow me to get close or touch them. I am not uncaring when I do this, I work very hard to show them my intentions are good and that contact can be pleasant. It does me and the kitty NO good if they have any unpleasant experiences, so I try to always make them positive. 
I like your calm attitude towards cat-person interaction. I bet you have great success with all animals.
h


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## BroganMc (Feb 28, 2010)

Oh sure. They learn to trust me then promptly ignore me and make me work for the loving. I should be a foster mom. That way I can tame them so they'll go find some other human to love.  

Naw, I get a kick out of it. Our old Peppermint took a lot of time and attention. When she finally got over the majority of her squeamishness she took to each of my parents in their time of need. I was very worried about my dad home all alone last summer when I was away and our Pep had just died. He needs something warm and fuzzy to greet him when he comes in the door or gets up in the night. It can be the only thing that makes him smile.

The growling/hissing bit I learned the hard way. For a time we had a feral colony who set up camp in our garage. We'd care for the mama and her kittens but then some nasty Toms would wander in. We could never be sure they weren't carrying some nasty disease and they'd attack with the slightest provocation. Eventually we had to trap them and remove them for the safety of the kittens and us.

Funniest lesson I ever learned as a kid was the day I tried to see what our border collie would do if I stepped on his tail. We'd grown up together and were about the same size. His tail was wagging about on the floor so invitingly. I caught it with my foot and thought I was so smart. He responded by turning around, jumping up, paws on my shoulders and barking in my face. It was a very effective lesson in animal respect for a kid.


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## khannonnd (Jan 31, 2010)

So I am up in the SF Bay Area for the weekend and on the way home to where I am staying a cat ran by my car when I was stopped at a stop light. It was a long hair white cat and it was in an area where not many houses are.

My first thought: I should stop and try to catch it.

This is addictive, lol.


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## faithless (Dec 4, 2009)

> I once had a jogger run down my street threatening my border collie with a stick because he escorted the jogger down the property line with a loud bark. Dog stayed on his property but fool jogger thought waving a stick at him and yelling was going to protect him. I recalled my dog before the idiot got himself bit and my poor dog in trouble with Animal Control.


This is something thats been troubling me when I take my lil gal for walks on a leash. Ive seen people let their dogs go without leashes now and again around here. If that happened while Im out walking with her, what am I to do if it comes rushing at her? First, she'll go insane and half strangle herself trying to get of the leash, so it'll be impossible for me to try to hold and protect her without losing my eyes. So do I let go of the leash and hope she can make it up a tree and run at the dog and try to hinder it? Ive actually been in a fight with a young alsation that attacked my younger brother and the dog backed off. What should one do?


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

faithless said:


> What should one do?


Truly, I would be completely aware of your surroundings at all times and remove your kitty from the immediate area at the first sign of a loose dog that shows even the remotest chance of approaching you. You are right about how a panicked kitty can react but I also feel if you drop the leash and she runs you could lose her to all manner of things, not least of which could be complete disappearance or tangled leash that halts her and allows the dog to catch her.


_...ND, when I see kitties outside, I think that, too..._


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## faithless (Dec 4, 2009)

I try to keep very aware. For example, Ive stopped taking her out when its dark which is a real shame because she really enjoyed the small park I have here at night when everything was quiet except little rodents etc and also because it was a good way of tiring her out before an evening snack and bedtime, because thats when Ive seen people let their dog go. But its hard because she also demands I keep an eye on her all the time too, because suddenly she'll dart after something and I try to keep up with her so shes doesnt half strangle herself. 

If a dog surprised us, I think my plan of action is to let her go for a tree if she gets too panicked and try to run at the dog. She always sniffs and checks out every tree with great interest so Im pretty hopeful She'd zip up one of them. What do dog owners say? An alsation once attacked my little brother so I ran at it and kicked it hard once and it backed down long enough to give the owner time to get a grab on her. Was that unusual behavior? Im sort of counting on that behavior, I dont feel like having a pitbull go insane and go for my throat...

Its silly, but I find it worrying. The chances are small, but horrific if they happened...


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## BroganMc (Feb 28, 2010)

In general it's never a good idea to act aggressively toward a dog. Doing so merely heightens the fight instinct in him. And dogs do have the advantage in their bite. Most of the time dogs go wild with the barking and threatening because they are protecting their territory. Somehow you have intruded and he's letting you know. I found that if joggers merely crossed to the other side of the road or kept going to the next house, our dog left them alone. 

Now there were situations where our dog just could not handle the stress of all those potential intruders. Like when the county had their annual bike race down our street. It drove our dog nuts to see all those people keep coming by. So we'd bring him in the house to avoid it all. This particular dog was extremely territorial. He made a great guard dog and was very gentle once he was told the person was welcome.

Now with a cat on a leash, that would be odd enough to a dog that he most certainly would come over to investigate. But the trouble you have is that if your cat acts aggressively toward the dog (by instinct) that sets off a chain of reaction. Best thing you can do is let the cat fend for itself up a tree or get it out of there quickly. I'd imagine if you tried to grab it, the cat would scratch you up in an attempt to escape and you'll become one of the victims. You never ever step in the middle of an animal fight. Doing so will get you bitten. Just realize that most dogs behave as they do because they are protecting their territory. But unlike a cat, a dog's instinct is to stay and fight when challenged whereas a cat fights only as a last resort.

Our territorial dog had to put up with a lot of stray cats and other wild animals crossing his territory regularly. (Deer would use our backyard as a pathway from woods to a stream. Same with foxes, and other critters.) They all liked to steal a bit of his water or food and had no problems seeking warmth in our house or his. So he would bark and chase them just far enough to get them away from his stuff.

(NOTE: I should mention that my story about that jogger was at a time when our dog was on a long lead. Our county has a lead/leash law even in the country here. I didn't realize this jogger had a habit of taunting the dog when he ran by. He was afraid of my dog's bark and frequently eyed him and shouted as he went past. The dog was adamant on protecting me from the stranger as well as his turf so he escorted the jogger down the property line. The dog stayed 10-15 feet away from him, on the grass while the jogger was on the road. He'd bark at the jogger and the jogger picked up a stick to threaten him. That just made my dog even more protective and he pulled hard at his lead to threaten the intruder away. I could see this about to get really nasty quick so ordered my dog back to me quick. He came, I grabbed him by the collar, undid his lead and ushered him inside. When I had let my dog out on future occasions was when I observed what this particular jogger did that antagonized the dog so. Other joggers were not so foolish. They run by, my dog would bark at them a couple times and they'd keep going as if nothing happened. He got so used to them, he'd stay laying down and just lifted his head to bark at them.)


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## BroganMc (Feb 28, 2010)

faithless said:


> An alsation once attacked my little brother so I ran at it and kicked it hard once and it backed down long enough to give the owner time to get a grab on her. Was that unusual behavior?


Yup. What saved you in that instance was the owner. He/she took control and asserted alpha dog status. If the owner hadn't been there, you would have ended up a bloody mess.

I saw this having grown up across the street from a neighbor that had two german shephards. Those make great gaurd dogs but their bite instinct is very strong. As a kid I had a very docile border collie. My dog was forever herding kids and animals about the neighborhood (and chasing VW Beetles, he hated those cars). But whenever the german shepherds got loose they'd come over and fight my dog. They were very docile to their family but frequently went looking for fights with others. The only thing that stopped them was their owner and/or sometimes a water hose.

Also, from my experience, cats have a habit of challenging dogs unintentionally. They are naturally afraid of them so stare and arch their backs and/or hiss. That stare is an out-and-out challenge to a dog. Of all the dog/cat interactions I've seen what usually happens is that the dog gets curious and approaches, the cat gets defensive and stares/hisses, then the dog may bark or growl and the cat runs. If the cat is close enough, cornered or otherwise too close it'll scratch the dog before getting away. The dog will naturally try to bite the cat in defense. But when cats are raised with a particular dog or are so young they don't know the difference, they never start the fearful response. Then the dog doesn't fight.


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## faithless (Dec 4, 2009)

Well, if it comes down to real danger, Im maybe 3 times its size, train thai boxing and smarter, so no average dog is really going to threaten my life if it comes down to a full on attack against me unless Im unlucky...Anyway, thanks for the answer. Im even more worried now though  Doesnt commanding with a stern deep voice help either?


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

I absolutely think a commanding voice does help in dog encounters. So does a tall, confident and intimidating stance/presence. The dog may back off and increase its' barking, but it may not approach you close enough to make contact. When I encounter dogs while riding my horse I react in one of two ways; 
If the dog is contained or controlled, I speak to it in a soothing voice, telling it it is a Good Dog for protecting its' home, territory and family. I especially make a point to say this if the owner is in hearing distance. The dog *is* doing its' natural job and I don't want them to feel guilty if their dog barks at us. For most dogs, a horse/rider is an odd thing to see.

If a dog is loose and/or aggressively approaching me, I will scowl and shout for it to "GO HOME!" if it backs off, I just continue to ride out of its' territory while keeping an eye on it so it doesn't run up behind us for a bite. If it won't back off, I turn the horse to face it and ride towards it to make it be intimidated and back off. Usually this gives me the results I want. I have only had a few instances where the dog followed us for a time and I feel very fortunate that we've never been attacked or bitten.

Finally, if you are on the ground and being attacked by a dog, if the dog is getting close enough to touch I am not sure I would kick at it and give it a chance to grab/bite my leg and unbalance me so I fall. If you can safely retreat, I would do so. If the dog is coming for you, be calm and calculate its' approach so you can grab it by the muzzle. This does two things; it gives you control over the dangerous part and it is an obvious signal to the dog that you are alpha and in control. 
I *do* feel that this maneuver should only be attempted as a last resort to prevent you from being attacked and/or mauled. I also feel it would be largely ineffective when attacked by multiple dogs as I think it would be near impossible to control two dogs in this manner.

I have only been attacked by a dog, once. I had met him the day before with his owner who was showing me her property in preparation for me to farm-sit while she went out of state to a horse show. She wanted me to come by several days in a row to learn the routine and on the second day she waved me through the gate while she was about a hundred yards away at the barn. Her dog saw me and attacked because he viewed me as an 'intruder'. He was not listening to his owners' shouts to him and she began to run towards us, but she was far away and didn't reach us until it was over. 

Rusty leaped at me and one of this teeth grazed my upper L arm as he flew past and I dodged sideways. I still have that scar. He landed behind me and circled to my R, making a slash at my leg and putting a hole in my jeans. He overshot and circled back, approaching me from the front and I watched him come. When he got close to me and just before he leapt at me, I snatched my hand out and grabbed him by the upper muzzle with my fingers curling over his muzzle, around his teeth and into his mouth between the long canines and larger molars. I held him and bent down, looking at him and saying: "Rusty! _Rusty!_ You met me, it's okay. Rusty. Good boy." By the second 'Rusty' I felt the tension go out of him and saw the light of recognition in his eyes and when he began to wag his tail I released him and patted him. He was only doing his job and I *had* entered his yard without his owner in the immediate area. That was a good lesson for both of us; her in how to keep her dog close by when expecting company and me to not enter a dog's yard unless permission has been granted by the owner and/or dog.

Dog bites.
A dog bite is deep and painful, but can usually only puncture when they close their jaws and slide their teeth over a body part, like an arm or leg, catching the canines in loose/wrinkled skin from the squeezing/sliding movement of their teeth. _Our pulling away only increases the probability of injury in that manner._ And bites occur when the dog snaps its' jaws at you and punctures through skin/muscle, giving them a good hold so they can hold and/or shake their target. 
By grabbing the dog over the muzzle, you have control. 
Your fingers can safely circle the muzzle and enter the mouth because the power of the dog's bite is in the snap of the canines and the grinding of the molars. There is a possibility of getting some scrapes from the molars if your fingers are far back on the muzzle, but usually the tongue will encounter the fingers and instinctually open as the dog tries to maneuver the objects in its' mouth for biting or swallowing. This maneuver is not as effective on short-muzzled dogs like Chows or Boxers.


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## BroganMc (Feb 28, 2010)

faithless said:


> Well, if it comes down to real danger, Im maybe 3 times its size, train thai boxing and smarter, so no average dog is really going to threaten my life if it comes down to a full on attack against me unless Im unlucky...Anyway, thanks for the answer. Im even more worried now though  Doesnt commanding with a stern deep voice help either?


Not really. You have to remember that Alpha Dog status is something that is earned. It's a way of telling the dog that you not only belong in his pack but are his leader. I've seen dogs get confused by stern voices, but if you are just passing through your actions say you are not part of the pack but rather an interloper looking to swipe supplies from the pack. It's his job to defend the pack.

The method Heidi described is a way of besting a dog in a physical fight. It's not really one I'd advise for someone who's hesitant in any way about reaching for a dog's face. If you miss, you are in serious jeopardy of getting hurt badly. Now if it's a situation of you already being under attack to the point of teeth lashing down, then you have no choice but to try and best the dog physically. It's still better to avoid the fight by not antagonizing the dog.

The easiest way of remembering animal responses is what they are instinctively trained to do in the face of conflict. Dogs hunt in cooperative packs and answer a challenge with a fight. Cats are solitary hunters who look for quick, easy stealth kills. If a cat is challenged, it will try to escape. If you ever watched their wild counterparts hunting you can see the similarities and differences. Cheetahs, lions, leopards, etc. stalk a herd very quietly and pick off the young and/or weakest by chasing it to tire it out before approaching for a kill while the herd runs off scared. Many herds will round up their young and protect them through intimidation alone. Meanwhile, wolves surround a herd and come charging in for their kill. By working together they can easily take down an animal many times their size. A cat's kill is one of patience and endurance; a dog's is one of sheer brazenness and many bites.

This is one reason I don't think it's ever a good idea to take a cat out for a walk like a dog in strange territories. Cats are not good obeyers. Humans can control their dogs because they are recognized as pack leaders and dogs obey the pack leader. Cats are more symbiotic companions. They won't obey us but instead assume we are each looking out for ourselves. To be fair, I'm not one who believes in exposing cats to the outdoors anyway. At least around here, it is a sure way of shortening the cat's lifespan. If you must let your cat out, then I'd stick to an area close to the home, like the garden or backyard. Then this is territory the cat can claim as their own and no strange dog is likely to challenge it.


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## khannonnd (Jan 31, 2010)

Herbie got neutered today! He seemed a little scared of us when we got him home (probably because this was the third time in three and a half weeks we took him to the vet, lol) and he ran under the bed and wouldn't come out for awhile.

He seems ok now. The vet said to contact him if he kept trying to lick where his little testicles used to be (there aren't any sutures down there, they used some kind of special adhesive or something). He isn't trying to obsessively, but every now and then he does. Being my OCD self, I am wondering if I need to contact a vet (especially since I my wife and I won't be home to watch him during the day tomorrow). Anyone have any experience with such things after getting one of their cats fixed?


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

Yay for Herbie! We've had many kitties neutered and while most would give the occasional slow, gentle and thorough cleaning they never did anything to harm themselves. I really don't think there is much a male cat can do to hurt themselves. I mean, what was in there is gone. Nothing can fall out. I cannot see him *biting* himself, so the only concern is constant disruption of the healing process that doesn't allow the small incisions to heal over and they get an infection. IMO, as long as he isn't licking for more than a few minutes at a time, a few times a day, he should be just fine. If he licks himself to the point of bleeding, then call the vet for an E-collar, but those collars can freak kitties out, so ask if they have soft and/or fabric E-collars. Even if he bleeds and/or gets an infection, a quick e-collar and antibiotics will put him right in just a few days. All of my male cats gave minimal attention to that area and most acted like nothing had happend, racing around and behaving normally ... the only clue was in how careful they sat down. :wink


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## sweetyanna (Apr 13, 2008)

I agree with Heidi. AND kudos to you for neutering!!! Woo hoo! As a kid, I had a cat that was spayed and she had stitches that needed to be removed later. She picked a little at it, but she was fine and did not need one of those funnel hats. It doesn't seem like pets for the most part have trouble with recovering from surgery from that aspect. 

Herbie!!! Herbie!!! Herbie!!!


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## lv2ski (Feb 18, 2010)

I've been following this for a bit and finally finished reading the entire thread today. I just have to say, congrats on transitioning Herbie! He's such a handsome little fella and his eyes are gorgeous. Thank you for neutering him! 

You did such a wonderful deed! Thank you for saving him. :mrgreen:


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