# Hello to all.



## grifter102 (Dec 5, 2010)

Hi everyone. I'm currently living in New York with one cat that I've had for the past 4 years or so and just introduced a new 7-8mth old kitten into the mix. The older cat, Bella (this was its name prior to meeting me - I'm not a Twilight uber-fan or anything), is probably around 5-6 yrs old... but I can't really be sure. I can't really be sure of the new kitten's age either, since she used to be a stray; the vet said she was around 7 months old.

I met Bella when I moved in with some friends, one of which was cat-sitting her for a friend. He was keeping her in a very tiny bedroom, litter, food, everything all cooped up next to each other. She had been in there for about a month, so I convinced my other roommates to let her out and give her some space. The actual owner kept trying to find a place to move that would allow cats - this continued for months. After a while it seemed like she just didn't want Bella back anymore (she was back in town for a reunion after a year or so and said, "I guess I'll take her back if you want me to."). So I kept her. After almost two years there with various roommates (always at least 3, sometimes 5), Bella became "my cat" in most ways, so when I decided to move out she came with me. She's been with me in my new place (where I live with my girlfriend) for almost 3 years. 

It's hard to determine her actual age... because she seemed fairly small when I originally met her... but seemed full-grown (so maybe a year old?). After a few months of double-feedings in the morning (roommates were feeding her and she was eating as fast as she could so that she could convince the next person to fill her empty bowl as if she'd never been fed) she put on some weight... so maybe she just seemed smaller back then because she's a bit chunky now (13lbs). Beyond our first meeting, and knowing she was with someone who didn't particularly care all that much, I have no idea at all about her history.

The new kitten was a local stray that walked into one of my girlfriend's friend's house. He couldn't keep the cat, so she volunteered our place as its new home. She named the new kitten Lalita... Lala for short. Lala seems unfazed by anything, probably due to "hardening" out on the streets. She's in good health, loves to play and constantly wants to hang out with Bella. Bella is not too fond of Lala... at all.

The main reason I'm joining here is to have a little help with the introduction process between the two of them. I've read most "How to Introduce New Cats" posts online and have been following the rules as best as I can. Lala has the guest room all to herself, with toys, litter, food, etc. Bella has the rest of the house. I've been petting them both with what I've dubbed the "Sock of Friendship" to mix their smells. I've been moving Bella's food progressively closer to the guest room door, but she's still very hesitant to go there (and she LOVES to eat).

It's been two weeks and Bella is extremely wary. I've let Lala out 5 times, twice when Bella was locked in my bedroom, 3 times when Bella was relaxing in one of her regular spots. Lala snoops around for a while, goes near Bella, Bella hisses and growls... then Lala moves in (not an attack, more of a "Hey, let's meet!"-type movement), Bella then runs away and Lala ends up chasing Bella around. This has happened twice. Their best meeting was one where Bella was just laying on the radiator, Lala came close, Bella kind of swatted at her and Lala turned around and left. Lala's never agressive, she just seems to want to sniff Bella and play.

Is this normal? I'm thinking Bella may not have ever been around other cats, so she has no clue how to react. She doesn't seemed too stressed out... she just won't really go near Lala's door. If she sees a paw shoot out, she hisses and runs away. She's still friendly to me and goes about her day... and she's always recovered quickly after the chasings (15 minutes later she's laying on the carpet and purring). Is this good or bad? I'm nervous because one (or two) of the intro sites said something like, "If one cat always chases the other, it may never work." This freaked me out... and I'm wondering if they'll EVER be able to be even civil around each other.

That's my story, any feedback or advice would be greatly appreciated.


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

Welcome!

It actually doesn't sound that bad. It's much better that Lala is chasing after Bella than the other way around. You might want to try baby gates as your next step. I bought three (cheap ones) and stacked them on top of each other. 

We could help you better if we had pictures.

Okay, not really. We just love pictures. :grin:


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

I love your phrase the "Sock of Friendship". I must remember that one!

What you're experiencing is normal, particularly given Bella's age and the fact that she appears to have never lived with another cat before. I wouldn't worry about the comment "if one cat always chases the other, it may never work". That might apply if the cats had been together for months and there was still no end to the chasing. But, in your case, they've only been together 2 weeks, on top of which yours don't seem to be doing much chasing. Lala sounds like a normal kitten who just wants to play, but Bella's not too friendly right now since she's spent the past 6 or so years without other cats around and she doesn't yet know what to make of this furry little plaything.

First, I would keep mingling their scents. Using your Sock of Friendship is one way. In addition, exchange their rooms once a day for about an hour. So, put Bella in the guest room (Lala's room) and let Lala explore the rest of the house. Preferably, there should be somebody with each cat. So, you or your GF should sit with Bella, to see her reaction and to make her feel more comfortable, and the other person should keep an eye on Lala. With a daily room exchange, both cats will start to get more accustomed to each other's scent...and both cats will "deposit" their scents in the other's area, creating a sort of communal scent, which is important to both cats feeling that the other belongs there.

Keep trying to encourage Bella to venture close to the door of Lala's room, and try to have many "good things" happen by the door. In addition to feeding, you could play with Bella there, give her treats, groom her (if she enjoys grooming), put some cat grass by the door if she likes that, etc. The focus is on trying to get Bella to make positive associations with Lala...so lots of good things happen when Lala's close. Once Bella is a bit more comfortable eating and playing beside the closed door, you can trying opening things up a bit. Open the door a crack, using door stoppers on either side...enough for the cats to see each other and potentially play footsies, but not enough so either cat can enter/exit. Alternatively, as Marie suggested, you can invest in a few inexpensive baby gates that can be stacked at the entrance to Lala's room.

I went through a difficult introduction with my two girls, which lasted about 3 months, but today they are the best of friends. They cuddle together, groom each other and you rarely see one without the other. I know 3 months seems like a long time, but it's only a drop in the bucket relative to the next 15-20 years that I hope to have my girls around. And there's nothing to indicate your introduction will take that long in any event. 

Good luck, and post again if you have other questions.


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## grifter102 (Dec 5, 2010)

I have a baby gate with some cardboard/foil extending upwards so lala can't jump over it. I used it for a little while, but Bella would just sit in the kitchen and stare toward Lala's room, wouldn't really go near it. That's an issue right now, she'll go near the door, but almost never for more than a few seconds. I took Lala into my bedroom once, left the guest room door open and Bella went in for around a minute or so to check things out. After the minute, she bolted for the other end of the house. I tried once to put Bella in the room and shut the door, but she squirmed and clawed and hissed and generally became un-holdable. Didn't even let me get one step inside the room.

I'll try it again tonight, just see what happens when Bella and I are in there and I shut the door. Hopefully she'll get used to Lala, I just don't seem to be making any progress. Bella was totally accepting of the sock with Lala's scent a couple days ago, today she's hissing and clawing at it. It's frustrating.

I'll put up some pics soon, so you can all put some faces with the names.


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

It's likely that Bella needs a bit more time and encouragement to get used to the idea of Lala being there. If she's reacting that strongly to Lala's scent, I wouldn't force the issue right now. You can try putting Lala in another room tonight, and then put Bella in Lala's room, but I'd let Bella be free to leave when she wants to. She needs to do this on her timetable, when she's ready and comfortable. Once she starts to seem a bit more comfortable in Lala's room (no hissing, etc.), then you can close the door and let Lala explore the rest of the house. 

You can also try certain things to encourage Bella to get closer to Lala's door (when Lala's in her own room) or to stay in Lala's room when Lala is elsewhere. Try to use whatever Bella likes...so, if she's treat motivated, use treats. If she has a favorite game, play that with her in the vacinity of the door...etc. It's important to give her lots of encouragement on the one hand, but not push her too hard or too quickly on the other hand. 

I know it's frustrating. In the first 3 weeks, my Muffin would run around like a wild cat whenever she was saw or smelled Abby. I had to change clothes and wash my hands each time I came out of Abby's room, because Muffs would go nuts if she smelled Abby on me. She slowly began to get used to the idea of Abby being around and she settled down a bit. It took time, but they're fine now.


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## murphyy12 (Dec 6, 2010)

everyone seems real friendly here. I am new as well.


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## grifter102 (Dec 5, 2010)

Yeah, I just put up a cardboard wall between the kitchen and living room, stood in the doorway and played with each of them on either side for around 15 minutes. Bella with a laser pointer and Lala with a string. It seemed to go well, I then rubbed down Lala with the sock and went to Bella, and she flipped out. I've been putting the lala-scented sock down and putting some treats on it, and Bella growls... but eats the treat.

I'm having a hard time getting her even near the door to Lala's room, whatever game we're playing will instantly stop whenever I go closer. She'll follow a pointer around everywhere, she chases treats when I toss them across the floor... but if anything goes too far in that direction, she stops dead in her tracks.

I think I'm going to try to leave Lala's door open with her in another room more often... hopefully the switch won't stress Lala out too much. it's difficult because my girlfriend has been working nights and double shifts constantly, so she's never really home to keep Lala company while I watch Bella.

This is all going to take a long time...


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## grifter102 (Dec 5, 2010)

Here's an update on the situation. For the past week or so everything seemed to be going a bit better. I've been letting Lala out in the kitchen while I cook, and block off the doorway to the living room (where Bella spends most of her time). I've taken Lala into my bedroom with the door closed and left Lala's room open so Bella has the opportunity to check it out. Bella has been going closer to Lala's door, she still hisses, but she doesn't seem to be as afraid. My girlfriend has taken Lala into the living room when Bella is next to me and she plays with Lala as Bella watches. I pet Bella, she seemed a bit tense, hisses a bit... but it still seemed to go pretty well. Lala was only showing signs of curiosity, Bella just seems to still be wary.

Last night I was in Lala's room with her on the bed. We were playing a bit, then she turns around and starts stalking (low to the bed, hindquarters high up) incredibly slowly to the foot of the bed. I thought she was sneaking up on a mouse or something when I noticed that Bella was just sitting outside the door (where there's a gate), watching what was going on inside. I thought this was a good sign, Bella was right up near the gate - she never gets that close. Then I heard some growling, and instead of Bella... it was Lala. She's never growled before, hissed, anything. Now she's ready to attack and growling at Bella in the doorway. She jumps off the bed, pauses. Bella hisses a bit... then Lala launches herself at the gate, Bella freaks and takes off running.

This is the first sign of aggression from Lala... everything else has been just curiosity. I was stunned at the whole thing and I didn't know what to do. I told Lala, "No", firmly... but she didn't seem to pay attention and just kept staring out the gate looking for Bella. I left the room and shut the door... I wasn't sure what else to do.

So what's with this sign of aggression? Is it because Lala now considers her room her territory and won't let Bella near it? I thought that I only would have to worry about Bella accepting Lala, since Lala seemed so friendly... but now it seems like Lala has turned into an aggressor. How do I stop this before it starts to escalate?

On another note... Lala is in her room with the door closed most of the day. I try to go in there for at least 15-30 minutes (usually longer) a few times a day... and I've been trying to let her out more. I just can't be in there always, and I can't let her out usually because Bella is around. It's difficult for me to put Bella anyplace with a shut door because the only other room with a door is my bedroom, and to get there you have to pass right by Lala's room. If I try and pick up Bella to bring her in my bedroom, she freaks out, thrashes and claws/bites the **** out of my hands and arms. How much time should I be trying to spend with Lala? Is she okay to be alone most of every day? Whenever I do go in there, she always wants to play, but after a few minutes she's always looking out the gate, wanting to get out.

Any advice would be appreciated... I've never done this before and just have no idea what the right course of action is. I don't want to do anything that'll upset either of them and make this all take longer... yet I don't want to do nothing and have them never really be able to get acquainted.


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

Lala's aggression is likely arising because she too is still not used to Bella. The best thing you can do is anything that will encourage these two to "come together" at the gate to Lala's room. They needn't be within inches of each other, as long as they're in the general vacinity. So, feeding, playing, treats, attention, grooming, cat grass, cat nip (if they're susceptible), etc. You need to get them used to being in each others' company, but in such a way as they can't get to each other (due to the gate). 

If you're in Lala's room again and Bella comes along, then try to diffuse any potential aggression from either, using treats, play, etc. As an aside, I would always keep treats close by at all times, since they come in handy for situations such as the one you described. 

As for spending time with Lala, I know that's difficult. Abby was locked up in my dining room for almost 3 months, before she and Muffs decided they liked each other after all. I tried to go into the dining room as often as I could, sometimes to actively play with Abby (but I usually did so by the gate, so that Muffs could see and hopefully come a little closer). Sometimes, I would find other reasons to spend time with her. So, I took a book and read, or took my laptop and did some work. If I was chatting on the phone, I would take the phone into Abby's room and let her cuddle while I chatted. So, you can think about doing that sort of thing in order to increase the time you spend with Lala. That said, I doubt I spent much more than 3 hours per day with Abby. There's only so much you can do, other than try to ensure Lala has as many "comforts" as possible in the room (toys, a cat tree would be good if you have one or can afford one, etc.). 

Finally, have you tried any of the homeopathic stress relievers, such as Feliway plug-ins or Rescue Remedy? I had a lost of success with Feliway, although I know other members here didn't have much success. Those who haven't had success with Feliway often have found Rescue Remedy (or Spirit Essences) to be helpful. If you're not familiar with these products, post again.


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## grifter102 (Dec 5, 2010)

I did pick up some of the Feliway spray, and it seems to calm both of them down a little bit... but not all that much. We just brought Lala out in a cat carrier for a little bit, putting her about 6 ft in front of bella. I sprayed the whole area with Feliway beforehand... Bella still was growling and hissing. At one point Lala sort of lunged at the side of the carrier, but for the most part she just sat inside looking out. Then we attempted to block her in the library while my girlfriend was organizing various books. Bella was on the furniture looking in at Lala wandering around. Then Lala decided she wanted to go see Bella and leaped over the 4ft high wall. I grabbed her (scruffed) and pushed her down, telling her no... but she squirmed and moved toward Bella enough that Bella took off running.

My main worry right now is that Bella will forever be afraid of Lala. She's always running away. I've tried to get them to play near each other, on opposing sides of various barricades... but Bella always ends up deciding she'd rather be someplace else and walks/runs away. I *really* don't want Lala constantly chasing Bella around, since it doesn't seem like Bella will fight back at all... she just runs away hissing and Lala takes off after her.

Should I be letting Lala out into the same room with Bella? Should I be leaving the gate open so they can see each other? Or should I be moving more slowly, i.e., moving her food dish closer to the door until she no longer hisses when she's over there?

I'm probably just being overly anxious about the situation, but whenever something positive seems to happen, something negative follows and the past 3 weeks just seem like zero sum.


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## Tina (Dec 13, 2010)

Love the sock of friendship! I didn't read all the replys but here's my two cents. You're cats sound ok. Not all cats love one another, sometimes it's a one way street. As long as they aren't going after one another you'll be ok. We have a cat and dog and fostered a mom with four kittens who were feral at first. My cat is very submissive but has weak nerves. Shed never make a move unless provoked. We kept them all separate at first and once the kittens were socialized with us we'd bring one out at a time for a few mins. I'd always hold the new cat giving my home cat time to help herself to a sniff and walk away should she chose. After they all knew each other we introducted a baby gate. This did wonders with all cats and the dog. All the pets respected the gate. However once when the door was closed I opened it to go in and my cat snuck in. Found her hours later. It was funny, no damage done they all got along fine with the exception of some growls but my poor cat was terrified. She has an intense fear of male kittens hahaha. 

I'd say go with the baby gate. Theyll be ok.


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

grifter102 said:


> My main worry right now is that Bella will forever be afraid of Lala. She's always running away. I *really* don't want Lala constantly chasing Bella around, since it doesn't seem like Bella will fight back at all... she just runs away hissing and Lala takes off after her.


You've hit the nail on the head in terms of identifying the problem...the problem being that Bella won't "fight back". In fact, it sounds like Lala just wants to play with Bella (as opposed to fight), but Bella assumes Lala is "after" her. So, I guess another way of stating the problem is to say that Bella won't stand her ground. Once Bella realizes that Lala is not something to be afraid of, and once she starts to stand her ground, these two will likely get along fine. The trick is getting Bella to that point.

I suspect Bella's problem is one of two things. Either she's a nervous, skittish cat to begin with (easily frightened by most things), or Bella has lived so long as an only cat that she's going to take a lot of convincing before she accepts Lala. Regardless of the reason, there are two things you need to do: (a) convince Bella she has no reason to fear Lala, and (b) teach Bella to have positive (or at least neutral) feelings toward Lala. These two things are referred to as (a) desensitization and (b) counter-conditioning. Rather than my explaining each in great detail, here is a link to a very good article that explains both: ASPCA - Virtual Pet Behaviorist - Desensitization and Counterconditioning 



grifter102 said:


> Should I be letting Lala out into the same room with Bella?


At this point, no. From your descriptions, Bella is currently afraid of Lala. By letting Lala in the same room as Bella, you're only going to increase Bella's fear of Lala and Bella is going to react by running and hiding even more. 



grifter102 said:


> Should I be leaving the gate open so they can see each other? Or should I be moving more slowly, i.e., moving her food dish closer to the door until she no longer hisses when she's over there?


This one is hard to judge, since I'm unable to see Bella's reaction to Lala first-hand. The preferable approach is to leave the gate open so they can see each other, on the assumption that neither cat can get over the gate (or more specifically, Lala can't jump the gate to get to Bella), which presumes the gates are high enough (or you have several stacked gates). On the other hand, if Bella is so scared that she refuses to even come anywhere near the gate when it's open, then there's obviously no point in leaving the gate open. In such a case, you should move a bit more slowly.



grifter102 said:


> I'm probably just being overly anxious about the situation, but whenever something positive seems to happen, something negative follows and the past 3 weeks just seem like zero sum.


You don't sound overly anxious at all. The fact that you're seeing this sort of behavior from Bella after 3 weeks is not the norm. That's not to say Bella and Lala will never get along. However, it does indicate that you face a longer-than-normal introduction, likely for one of the two reasons outlined above (i.e., because either Bella is a nervous/skittish cat or she's been an only cat for so long that she's going to need a lot of convincing to accept a new cat into the home). 

I went through a very difficult integration with my two girls and, after 3 weeks, I was at the same point as you. The reason in my case was that Muffin is a very nervous/skittish cat. I ended up having to involve a professional animal behaviorist to resolve the problem, which is how I came to know about desentization/counter-conditioning programs, although I'm hardly an expert on the matter. When I first heard of the techniques, I was quite skeptical that they would work, but they did and my girls are now best friends. 

Anyway, I suggest you read the article posted above. In addition, here is a link to another thread on the Forum that explains the program I used with my girls, along with another member's experience with this. The thread is quite long, but it contains a very detailed account of the other members' experience and might be worth reading, since it will give you an idea as to what's involved. http://www.catforum.com/forum/37-behavior/131177-need-help-w-problematic-cat-introduction.html 

Post again if you have any other questions.


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## grifter102 (Dec 5, 2010)

Okay, a couple more questions.

First, in the other post you said that everything "good" should happen within 2 ft of the door. Does this mean during "treatment" sessions, or just always? So should I be only giving Bella treats and trying to play with her near Lala's door? I moved a scratching toy near Lala's door with some catnip, Bella doesn't seem to be biting. She seems to know whenever I'm trying to move her closer to Lala's room. Whenever there's too much commotion in the hallway, Lala always shoots her crazy-paws under the door, flailing around trying to grab whatever's out there. Bella usually responds by hissing and running away. This makes anything "good" happening by the door fairly difficult. I think it's getting a bit better... but Bella just seems to want Lala to stay away from her.

For desensitization I've been putting Lala in a carrier and bringing her around 10ft away from Bella, and feeding Bella treats until she starts to relax. This seemed to work alright... once I removed Lala it only took a few minutes for Bella to relax again. I've tried to switch Bella into Lala's room, but she just refuses to go into there on her own. It's like there's a 5 ft bubble around the doorway... doesn't matter what we're doing, chasing treats or toys or lasers, she'll stop dead and stare at me, as if saying, "I know what you're trying to do. Fat chance." Then she turns around and walks to the other end of the kitchen. I got her in there only twice, and both times she just sits on the floor and growls. She may sniff a treat, but then she growls even more and basically just pouts in the middle of the room, refusing to do anything else. I'd feel terrible just leaving her in there like that for an hour every night. I probably have to work up to that, right?

Is it bad to keep Lala locked up so much? She's starting crying in the room almost constantly. It doesn't seem to be out of distress, she's just lonely and wants to get out. It's also destroying any chance of sleeping that I have, since her room is right next to mine, I can hear her always. I'll be able to sleep until around 4, maybe, then it's constant crying every 20 minutes or so until I go in there. I try to let her out as much as I can, blocking various doorways to keep her away from Bella, but she always wants free reign over everything. My girlfriend doesn't feel bad at all about keeping her in the room most of the day; she feels that it's better for her to get used to being alone. Is that sound advice? If I talk to my sister or a few other friends about it, they all end up saying, "Oh my god, thats horrible to keep her locked up all day! You have to let her out, it's like torture." This does nothing to help my anxiety. Is it really that bad to keep her isolated?

That about covers it... I'm attempting the desensitization, we'll see how that goes. I'm also trying to move Bella's favorite toys and such near Lala's room... hopefully she'll start going there more often. My condo isn't exactly conducive to unity... since it stretches from the front of the building to the back and is only half as wide, the living room (where I am most of the time, my office is there, too) is a good 50-60ft from Lala's room, so Bella can just hang out there and forget about her entirely. In front of Lala's room is a very small hallway, not very comfortable to hang out in at all... so it's almost impossible to play with her there for any extended period of time. I've thought about getting a dog cage/crate and moving Lala into it in the living room for some period of time... good idea?

Alright, I've rambled for long enough... too many questions. I think 3 weeks of hissing, running away, no sleep and constant crying (and probably the busiest 3 weeks of work I've had in months) has me wound too tightly. I suppose I just need to relax and realize this will take a while.


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## grifter102 (Dec 5, 2010)

Sorry, one more thing... I can't seem to find any animal behaviorists in my area (Albany, NY). Every single one I could find in New York is in NYC. Any ideas how to find someone local? What if there aren't any locals?


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

grifter102 said:


> Sorry, one more thing... I can't seem to find any animal behaviorists in my area (Albany, NY). Every single one I could find in New York is in NYC. Any ideas how to find someone local? What if there aren't any locals?


Hi! Hectic day, and I haven't had a chance to log into the Forum, and I have my daughter flying in from the U.K. tonight so I have to do a few things before she comes. I'll respond to this question first, and then come back a little later to respond to your prior post. 

To find someone local, you should try the following: speak with your vet; speak with your local humane society or rescue agencies (they often know who to refer); call the ASPCA in NYC and see if they have a list of behaviorists in Albany or surrounding areas. 

If there is nobody local, then you can work with someone from NYC via a phone consult. If you're able to find a good behaviorist, he or she will not need to physically see the cats to advise you, and can just as easily work via phone/e-mail. In fact, given a choice between (a) a behaviorist who has had a lot of experience dealing with cat introductions but can only work via phone/email due to logistics; and (b) someone local with less experience who can do a home visit, I would suggest (a). My behaviorist did a home visit, but the rest of our consultations were done via phone/email. The visit itself was only an hour in duration (which is the norm) and I don't think it added much...so, I likely could have gained just as much even had he not been able to come to my house.


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## grifter102 (Dec 5, 2010)

I think I completely forgot to say: Thank you VERY much for helping me out. 

I've been stressed about this whole situation and it's good to hear some experienced, impartial advice on everything... especially if you're taking time away from anything important to give it. Thanks very, very much


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

First, let me respond by saying I’m more than happy to help. I remember well how stressed I was after three weeks, thinking my two girls would never get along, and it seemed as if everything was taking forever. If it helps at all, my girls have been getting along now for about a year, and now when I look back, it really doesn’t seem so bad or so long in hindsight. Let’s hope there will soon come a time when you and your girlfriend can say the same thing! Turning to your questions... 


grifter102 said:


> First, in the other post you said that everything "good" should happen within 2 ft of the door. Does this mean during "treatment" sessions, or just always? So should I be only giving Bella treats and trying to play with her near Lala's door?


My behaviorist told me that ALL good things should happen by the door. Life beside the door should be fun and interesting…all food, playing, treats, petting/attention, etc. should happen as close to the door as possible. Life away from the door should be boring! I followed his advice insofar as food, treats and play were concerned, but I will admit I “cheated” when it came to petting and attention. Abby (who was my new cat) was in the dining room all day/night, while Muffs (my resident cat) slept with me at nights. So, at night I still petted Muffs and gave her attention. I mean what was I to do? Pick her up, get out of bed and take her to the dining room! Still, other than giving her a bit of attention away from the door, I ensured all other good things happened by the door. If she wanted to eat, play, etc. she had to come to the door.



grifter102 said:


> Whenever there's too much commotion in the hallway, Lala always shoots her crazy-paws under the door, flailing around trying to grab whatever's out there. Bella usually responds by hissing and running away. This makes anything "good" happening by the door fairly difficult.


Does Bella only hiss and run away when Lala’s paws come “shooting” under the door? If so, when you’re trying to entice Bella closer to the door, perhaps your girlfriend could go into Lala’s room and occupy her, to avoid the crazy-paws. Also see the next point.



grifter102 said:


> For desensitization I've been putting Lala in a carrier and bringing her around 10ft away from Bella, and feeding Bella treats until she starts to relax. This seemed to work alright... once I removed Lala it only took a few minutes for Bella to relax again.


I find it odd that Bella seems ok when Lala is in a carrier only 10 feet away…she’s willing to eat treats and even starts to relax, yet she’s hissing and running away when Lala is behind a fully closed door. One would expect the opposite…since Lala is clearly more noticeable in a carrier than she is behind a closed door. You also said “it’s like there’s a 5 foot bubble around the doorway”, and Bella doesn’t want to be anywhere near the door to Lala’s room. It leads me to wonder whether there’s anything about Lala’s room or the hallway (aside from Lala!) that is upsetting Bella. Did the two of them have an altercation in Lala’s room (or just outside) at some point in the past few weeks? Are there any other negative things you can think of that Bella might be associating with that area (aside from Lala)? Is the area outside Lala’s room configured in such a way that Bella might feel “cornered”, as if she has no escape route?



grifter102 said:


> I've tried to switch Bella into Lala's room, but she just refuses to go into there on her own. It's like there's a 5 ft bubble around the doorway... doesn't matter what we're doing, chasing treats or toys or lasers, she'll stop dead and stare at me, as if saying, "I know what you're trying to do. Fat chance." Then she turns around and walks to the other end of the kitchen. I got her in there only twice, and both times she just sits on the floor and growls. She may sniff a treat, but then she growls even more and basically just pouts in the middle of the room, refusing to do anything else. I'd feel terrible just leaving her in there like that for an hour every night. I probably have to work up to that, right?


Right! Here again, Bella’s behavior is peculiar. When you bring Lala into another room in a carrier, Bella seems not too upset…and when you later remove Lala, it only takes a few minutes for Bella to relax (even though Lala’s scent would still be in the room). Yet, for some reason, Bella has a much more negative reaction to the same/similar scenario when things happen in Lala’s room. So, anything you can think of that might explain two very different reactions to two rather similar situations would be helpful.



grifter102 said:


> Is it bad to keep Lala locked up so much? She's starting crying in the room almost constantly. It doesn't seem to be out of distress, she's just lonely and wants to get out. It's also destroying any chance of sleeping that I have, since her room is right next to mine, I can hear her always. I'll be able to sleep until around 4, maybe, then it's constant crying every 20 minutes or so until I go in there…My girlfriend doesn't feel bad at all about keeping her in the room most of the day; she feels that it's better for her to get used to being alone. Is that sound advice? If I talk to my sister or a few other friends about it, they all end up saying, "Oh my god, that’s horrible to keep her locked up all day! You have to let her out, it's like torture." This does nothing to help my anxiety. Is it really that bad to keep her isolated?


Your girlfriend gets my vote! You said Lala was in your guest room, so I presume there’s a window. I’m sure she has all the necessities in the room (litter box, food, water), plus toys no doubt. Needless to say, I wouldn’t recommend keeping a cat locked up in a single room for the rest of her life, but a few weeks or a few months won’t send Lala off the deep end. So, relax. I’m sure your sister and your friends mean well, but you have nothing to feel guilty about. As I earlier noted, you and your girlfriend should try to spend whatever time you can with Lala when she’s in her room, and try to make the room as “interesting” as possible (via toys, scratching posts, a cat tree, or anything else you have), but otherwise there’s not much else you can do. As for the 4am wake-up calls, you need to learn to ignore Lala (earplugs?). If you get in the habit of going in to see her, then she’ll learn crying gets your attention. You might have to put up with the crying for a few nights, but when she learns that crying doesn’t get results, she’ll give up.



grifter102 said:


> In front of Lala's room is a very small hallway, not very comfortable to hang out in at all... so it's almost impossible to play with her there for any extended period of time. I've thought about getting a dog cage/crate and moving Lala into it in the living room for some period of time... good idea?


At this point, I don’t think that’s a good idea, because having Lala in a cage/crate for any extended period of time is likely to annoy Lala much more than having Lala in a room, and if Lala’s annoyed she might start acting out, which won’t help. Do you have another room (other than the guest room) that you could use for purposes of doing the “sessions”? One that might have a more open area on the outside (and perhaps one that's not as upsetting to Bella, for whatever reason)? It needn’t be a room that Lala stays in all the time.



grifter102 said:


> I suppose I just need to relax and realize this will take a while.


You got it!  Still, you seem to be a very patient person, and you and your girlfriend clearly want what's best for the two cats, which is nice to see.


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## grifter102 (Dec 5, 2010)

This is all completely confusing to me, too. Over the span of three or four days, Bella has:

1. Walked by Lala's room completely unfazed
2. Refused to go anywhere near Lala's door
3. Walked by the door, seen a paw come out and run away
4. Walked by the door, seen a paw come out, totally ignore it and keep walking
5. Seen the paw, hissed and jumped at the paw, then walked away

I don't know if I've seen any improvement at all. Bella seems generally more calm, but she also just seems to know that there's something she doesn't like in that room, so she's going to avoid it whenever possible. And it's completely possible with the way that my condo is laid out. Her water is in the kitchen. You can go straight to Lala's door from the kitchen past the washer/dryer, or you can go through the bathroom (where her litter is) and exit out the back, which leads into the same bedroom hallway, but allows her to totally bypass Lala's door and go straight into my bedroom. So in order for me to make all good things happen outside of Lala's door, I'd basically have to sit on the floor in the tiny bedroom hallway or in front of my washer and dryer and just wait for Bella to come over for attention. 90% of the time she'd rather just sit on the couch in the living room or lay out on a radiator.

I'll try to ignore Lala's crying... it's difficult... since for the past 3 days it's happening constantly. She's been crying almost non-stop for the past 3 hours. She stopped for a little while and I went in to install one of those Felliway diffusers. Maybe that'll calm her down a little bit.

I know that I have to relax, since all this will take time... but it seems that for every little step Bella takes in the right direction, Lala takes a huge step backward. When she first moved in, she played by herself all the time, batting her little mice across the floor. Now she almost never plays alone, she just cries. If I go in there, she will play for a bit, but is constantly looking at the door, waiting to get out, or watching for Bella. Maybe in a month or two Bella will be completely fine with Lala, but I think that by then, Lala will hate us all.

I'll attempt to play with bella only outside Lala's door and switch the desensitization from the carrier to doing it in front of the doorway. I just have no idea how I'll get Bella to stay over there without just walking away (since I can't move the door closer or farther away like the carrier). Bella loves her treats, and sometimes if I toss one near Lala's door, she goes right to it and picks it up. I tried that again last night, she just looked at the treat for a while then turned around and walked away. She's always been a bit moody... and now it just makes it impossible to judge how she's doing in all this at all.


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

Ahh...so Bella just has conflicted feelings when she's close to the door. That's actually better than if she always had a negative reaction, which is what I had previously thought. 

In order to get Bella to go close to the door, you need to move her water bowl (or fountain) and food bowl to outside the door (off to the side, of course, so you don't trip!). Then she has no choice. Try starting with her food/water perhaps 6 or so feet off to the side...and then move it a bit (few inches) closer each day. Putting treats on the floor outside the door is also a good way to get her to go there. Also, if she has any favorite games, such as Da Bird (a game that most cats go nuts over), then play that outside the door as best you can.

If Bella does not always have extreme negative reactions by the door, then I'd try the room exchange and see how it goes. Put Bella in Lala's room and let Lala out for a while. Start when you and your girlfriend are both home, so that one of you can go in the room with Bella and the other can keep an eye on Lala. Just try it for 20 minutes or so at first. See how Bella reacts both while she's in the room and afterwards. A bit of hissing and growling is to be expected and nothing to worry about, as long as she's doesn't go totally nuts.

Lala won't hate you!  Still, in order to allow Lala even more time out in the house, you might keep an eye on Bella's normal sleeping patterns, and try to have Bella sleep in a contained room while you let Lala out for a while. For example, Muffs was in the habit of sleeping for an hour or so at around 8pm. So, I would put Muffs in my bedroom at that time, give her a treat and close the door. Muffs ended up going to sleep, whereupon I let Abby out of the dining room while Muffs was sleeping. I also did that during the afternoons on weekends when Muffs was napping (and I was home). So, perhaps you can do the same thing, so that Lala can spend a bit more time out of her room.


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## grifter102 (Dec 5, 2010)

Well I'm glad that Bella's moodiness is actually a *good* thing. I was frustrated that everything I did seemed to have completely different results... and I had no clue what it was all dependent on.

As far as Bella's sleeping patterns... it's pretty much all the time on the radiators. The problem is that the radiators are in the living room, and if I try to move her into a bedroom she'll either rip my hands apart or, if I manage to pick her up and walk to the other end of the condo, she becomes so stressed and annoyed about moving that she doesn't want to sleep anymore. She does usually sleep with us at night at the foot of the bed... so whenever she does that i'm just going to shut the door and let Lala out, like I did this morning.

I was wary of bringing Bella back into Lala's room, since it just seemed counterproductive. Everything says, "Let her into the room to explore and check things out." Whenever Bella would be put in there, she'd just sit on the floor and growl and hiss at me... not really "exploring" at all. So I thought that doing that was bad for her, that she'd just associate Lala's room with even more "bad". I tried the desensitization with Lala's room instead of the carrier... but it was impossible to keep Bella in one place. She would sit there, see Lala, I would give her a treat and she would just turn around and walk away. If I tried to stop her, she'd growl and hiss. So I had my girlfriend bring Lala into our bedroom, opened the door and gate, picked up bella under her arms (so she can't kick/claw/bite me to death) and dropped her in Lala's room.

It was a bit chaotic at first, she ran to the gate, tried to make it through, started to look up as if she wanted to jump over... then I closed the door and just sat on the bed. I used the laser pointer a bit to distract her, even tossed some treats at her... she just sat there growling. Eventually she stopped and started snooping around a bit... then growled and hissed more at me... then jumped up on the windowsill for 10-15 minutes. I tried to give her treats, she wasn't biting (actually, she wasn't biting the treats, if I put my hands anywhere near her I most definitely wouldn't have gotten them back). After a bit on the windowsill, she jumped onto the bed and just sat at the edge, looking at the door. I tried to give her another treat, more growling. I just let her sit there for a while, maybe another 10 minutes, then she started pawing at the door and making this weird growl/hiss/meow noise. She *never* meows. Just like someone who hasn't spoken in months, if she ever does make noise, it's more of a squeak than anything, and that's only when we're near her feeder and she REALLY wants food. Otherwise she just breathes really heavily while staring at me when she wants something. Anyway... I figured that if she's actually meowing (or attempting to), then it's time to go. Once she was out she immediately went to her food bowl and started eating (weird, since I figured she'd want to get as far away as possible), then headed to the living room and plopped down on the floor. I gave her some space, now she's all friendly again.

I think the room switch should happen again, maybe every night, agree? I just need some sort of a plan to follow that makes sense... the scent swapping and carrier training were just too random in their results. I'm also moving her water to that hallway, too. Maybe this will work out after all.


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

I agree that it makes sense to do the room switch on a nightly basis. It didn't sound like it went too badly...a little hissing and growling, but she seemed to settle down at times, and she was no worse for wear afterwards. Hopefully, over time she will start to learn that she has nothing to fear when she's in the room surrounded by Lala's scent. Perhaps that will be a good step in the right direction towards convincing her to come to the door!


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## grifter102 (Dec 5, 2010)

An hour or so after she was trapped in Lala's room she went right up to the door, sniffing at it. No crazy paws appeared, but even still, she sniffed, then went and ate, then walked away. A very calm, semi-curious little walk. I was proud of her.

Around 30 minutes later I went to pet her and by accidentally brushing against her paw my hand ended up locked in paws and jaws... paws mostly sheathed, though. I think it's just her way of reminding me that if I'm going to mess with her life, the least she can do is mess up my hands.


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

That sounds like progress! Well, perhaps not the bit about your hand, but what the heck...that's a small price to pay.


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## grifter102 (Dec 5, 2010)

I think it was progress.

I know that ignoring Lala when she cries is best, but it's HARD. She spent most of the time from 7 to 11 crying, we went in there and played with her before bed for a good 30 minutes, until she just flopped on the floor and wouldn't really play anymore. She started crying around 3 am and continued until 7am when I woke up (I was mostly able to sleep through the crying). I went in there for an hour or so from 7 to 8, she seemed happy, ate her food, played a bit... then as soon as I left the crying started again... it's been going almost non-stop for the past 45 minutes while I've been on my morning conference calls. I really don't think anything is *actually* wrong with her... she's just whining that she's alone (even though she has a huge room filled with toys).

Is this "training" going to take a while? When should I stop ignoring the crying and think that there's something actually wrong?


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

I suspect how long the "training" will take will depend on Lala, you and what goes on in your home. For example, it only took Abby 2 days to learn that her crying didn't get results. But, from the day I brought her home, I never went in when she was crying (even if I had planned on going in, I delayed doing so until she was quiet). And I never let her see or hear me when she was in her room alone. As soon as she heard me (or activity going on), she would start crying again. So, if I had to take a phone call, I either took the call in her room, because that gave me an opportunity to spend some time with her and then she was happy. Alternatively, I took the call in another part of the house where she couldn't hear me. I also live on my own and I'm not a fan of TV or radio, so it's easy for me to keep the house quiet. 

If Lala can hear you talking, or she can hear the TV going and other activity going on around her, then I imagine it's going to take much longer for her to stop crying. Of course, she wouldn't hear anything when you're in bed, so hopefully it shouldn't take her too long to settle down in the middle of the night, provided you don't go in there.


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## grifter102 (Dec 5, 2010)

The big problem here is that, even though I'm home alone most of the day (work from home), I live in the city, so there is ALWAYS noise around. The people upstairs are always walking around, making noise. There's always traffic, people walking around outside... there are a million noises. I also can't go to either bathroom without a bit of creaking and her hearing it.

She's been crying on and off most of today... I feel terrible, but I know it's best for her and me. Just another hour, then we can let her out for an hour or so while I hang out with Bella in Lala's room.


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

If you have a portable radio, you could try leaving it in her room, tuned to a classical music station, not too loud. I have heard that classical music tends to relax cats; it's used in a number of shelters for that reason. I always leave classical music playing for my girls when I travel and they're left alone, so they don't feel too alone. Plus, the music might help to mask some of the outside noises.

Hope the room exchange went well tonight!


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## grifter102 (Dec 5, 2010)

I've put a radio into Lala's room, it doesn't seem to be helping much... but it's only been a day or so. We're both completely ignoring Lala when she cries... but she doesn't seem to be stopping at all. Whenever one of us isn't around her, she's usually crying. She'll stop for a while when left alone, but if one of us goes in there (only when she's quiet), and then leave, she starts up again.

Bella's currently sleeping in my bedroom so I let Lala out, she's just wandering the condo crying at the top of her lungs. She'll sit down and take a break once in a while, but then she gets back up and starts crying again. I *really* hope we can break her of this habit soon. The Feliway may not be reducing the crying, but she definitely seems more at ease in the room. Whenever we go in there she always rolls around on her back and waits to be pet... which is a positive change from before, when she usually couldn't keep still for more than 10-15 seconds.

The latest room swap went about the same as before, as far as I can tell. My girlfriend took Lala into our bedroom, I put Bella in Lala's room. For the first 5-10 seconds, Bella just hissed and tried to get out. Once she realized she couldn't, she growled and explored a bit. My girlfriend let Lala out of our bedroom at this point, and Lala went straight to her own door and tried to get back in. Bella saw the paws and hissed and attacked them. I'm not sure if this is standing up for herself, or just a fear response... but Lala had to be taken away so Bella wouldn't cause any paw damage. Bella spent the rest of the time either in the windowsill or on the bed. At one point she even seemed to relax a little bit. She won't play in the room at all, she won't eat treats (I tried to give her one and she almost took my hand off)... she just sits, maybe looks around a little bit.

Bella's more comfortable around the doorway now, but whenever she sees the crazy paws she always hisses and walks/runs away. There's a little corner by the washer/dryer, only 3-4 ft from Lala's door, where Bella will hide and peek out if we have the gate open. if she's not there, then she's way at the other end of the kitchen, looking toward the room... or possibly hiding underneath my desk in the living room. If she does manage to stay near Lala's door I'll toss her a few treats, but there's only a 25% chance that she'll actually eat the treat. If I toss it further from the door than she is, she'll almost always back up and eat it. If I toss it in front of her, closer to the door... sometimes she comes forward a bit to eat it... sometimes she just stares at it. It's difficult to make all good things happen near the door when Bella won't participate.

I really hope she starts becoming more used to Lala through the room swaps, so we can at least play near the door. I really can't wait for this whole introduction process to be over... it's taking forever.


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

When I first let Muffs into Abby's room, she too wasn't interested in eating treats, or anything else. The first few days, she just sat by the door waiting for me to let her out. She was in their alone, because I live alone, so there was only me and I needed to keep an eye on Abby...but the dining room has glass-paned doors, so I could always see what Muffs was up to. After a few days, Muffs went to sit on the window sill and looked out of the window. Thereafter, she started to explore...and, at that point, I didn't have any trouble convincing Muffs to come close to the door when she was outside of the room. So, it might just take a bit more time for Bella to get used to being in there. 

I know it seems to take forever! If you haven't seen any progress in about a week, then you might consider involving a behaviorist. I found doing so to be very helpful. The cost was actually less than I expected, although the trick is to find a good behaviorist.


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## grifter102 (Dec 5, 2010)

I'm just not sure what a behaviorist would be able to tell me that I don't already know. I feel like (s)he'll tell me that what I'm doing is the right thing to do... that I just need to be patient and keep at it, that this is going to take a while.

It seems to be progressing a bit, Bella is now hanging around Lala's door a bit more. If she sees paws, sometimes she attacks them a bit, but she's no longer just running full-speed away. I think I'm going to give it until January before I bring in a professional... if I keep doing the room swaps and Bella doesn't improve at all, or if I keep ignoring Lala's crying and that doesn't stop at all... then it'll be time for some serious help.

Now, I've been ignoring Lala's crying for a few days now... and i'm not sure if we're getting anywhere. Whenever she hears someone or something, she starts to make little noises for a minute or so, then pauses, then starts to cry a bit... then it's on to loud crying, then basically wailing at the top of her lungs. After that she usually calms down for a bit. I'm never actually timing anything, but it seems like each stage of crying lasts a little bit less time than the previous... but it could just be my imagination. I always wait for her to quiet down before I head in there, but how long should I wait? Is there a specific time period, like... wait for 10 seconds of silence before entering? I'm just worried that I won't wait long enough, she was just pausing to catch her breath, and actually thinks that I was responding to her.

One final question... Lala isn't spayed yet and I know that should happen soon. I'm going to try and go to a vet hospital where she can stay overnight... what should I expect when i bring her home? I've heard that cats can tell when one is "sick" and they'll avoid it. Will this set back the introduction process and make Bella even more wary of Lala? I'm not sure if I should wait until they're more comfortable with one another, so Bella isn't as disturbed by Lala's condition... or if I should do it as soon as possible, because maybe not being spayed is causing Lala to be more restless or cause more tension between the two of them. Any thoughts?


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

Let me deal with the spay first. I hadn't realized Lala hadn't been spayed. Given that she's already around 7 months, I would take care of that as soon as you can. It's entirely possible that some of her crying, etc. might be happening because she's in heat. If so, then having her spayed as soon as possible will help. Even if she isn't already going into heat, she could do so soon, given her age -- and that will likely just add more problems to the mix.

Sending her to the vets might upset the intro a bit, but that's going to be the case no matter when you send her...since she will smell different when she returns. You should keep a blanket or something that has Lala's scent on it. When Lala comes back from the vet and before bringing her back into your place, rub her down with the blanket in order to "re-establish" her "normal" smell as best as possible.

I used to wait until Abby had been quiet for about a minute before going in to see her. 

I'm glad to hear that Bella seems to be hanging around the door a bit more. Let's hope the daily room exchanges start to have a noticeable effect in the near future!


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## grifter102 (Dec 5, 2010)

Thanks for the vet tips... I couldn't really prepare for Lala when she first arrived (it was sort of a "surprise, we have a new cat" kind of day) so I wanted to make sure I was as informed as possible.

Just because I'm constantly worrying... the aggression Bella is showing toward Lala through the door, that's part fear but part Bella gaining her confidence around Lala, correct? So it's technically a good thing that she's asserting herself. I'm a very quantitative person, so I need *something* to be able to measure our progress.


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

Yes...the fact that Bella is no longer running away and/or staying away is a good thing. 

Muffin (my resident cat) started by constantly running away/hiding and/or running around the house like a wild cat (but going nowhere near Abby). She then started being a bit more aggressive with Abby...staying near the door a bit more (not all the time), but growling if Abby came to close. Then slowly, the growling stopped and she started going up to the door, more curious than anything, but would still hang back a lot of the time. A little while later, she appears quite comfortable and relaxed around the door, but got very nervous if/when I let Abby out. And then, finally(!), she was ok even when Abby was outside the room. It's a slow, and often frustrating, process!


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## grifter102 (Dec 5, 2010)

We had the gate open earlier, with my girlfriend in the room with Lala. Bella came up by the washer/dryer and i started tossing some treats on the wood floor right in front of Lala's room. Bella would crouch down and pounce on the treats, eating and growling (which is a hilarious noise, kind of like grrr-om-num-nom-rrr-grrrr-om) and then back off. If Lala was further inside the room, she'd be okay on the hardwood... but if Lala came to the gate, Bella'd hiss and run into the kitchen... but then she'd come back around and just spy on Lala from around the corner.

I've attempted to take some pictures with my phone... but the camera is terrible... so I'm going to use another camera that we have to show some pics and give you a better idea of the setup (and to pay for the advice with funny cat pictures). Hopefully I'll be able to catch Bella snooping around the corner and Lala at the gate... waiting to become best friends.

My girlfriend also picked up some stuff called "Calm Down" (or something) which is supposed to relax them a bit... we're going to try using that a bit (I put some in Bella's water and a little bit in Lala's). Maybe it'll help out. We also got a little leash for Lala, so if we do let her out we can keep her from taking off and chasing Bella around.


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

That all sounds positive...love to see pictures! 

Is the "Calm Down" called Bio-Calm? If so, I've heard it's good for stress. I've never used it, although my daughter will be giving it to her cat in a few weeks when she flies back to the U.K. with him.


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## grifter102 (Dec 5, 2010)

I finally posted a few more pictures... I still didn't get a decent camera, so they're all a bit fuzzy (hah, fuzzy pics of fuzzy pets). One shows Bella hanging outside of Lala's room, trying to be sneaky... another shows Bella giving me a death stare while I sit with her in Lala's room.

Big update... we brought Lala into the vet today for a followup visit (since she originally had a sinus infection) and to schedule her spaying appointment. Turns out that Lala is in heat... which explains the crying all night and probably why Bella is especially uncomfortable around her. Her appointment is next Wednesday, so hopefully that'll make everything a bit smoother around here. I'm going to stop the room switching, since Bella just seems annoyed whenever I take her in there. Last night she just sat on the bed and growled for 20 minutes... then went to the door, hissed, cried, tried to attack my leg... then actually played with the laser a bit... then started tearing at the door. I'll probably just keep playing with her outside of Lala's room with the gate open (and Lala someplace else). If she's getting this close and being this good when Lala's in heat (she's really only hissing a bit), then in a couple weeks once that's all over Bella should be much better (hopefully).

I'm optimistic.


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

When you mentioned Lala hadn't been spayed, I thought her crying might mean she was in heat. Well, that explains that! And you're right, I suspect it also explains a large part of Bella's discomfort with Lala. I too think you'll see more improvement after the spay is over and done with, both in terms of less crying and in terms of the overall introduction. You're wise to put the intro on a bit of a hold for now, and pick things up again when Lala's back from the vet. Just try and keep Lala as comfortable as you can in the intervening week. I too am optimistic that things will improve thereafter.

I saw your pics...both girls are lovely!


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## grifter102 (Dec 5, 2010)

It's been a while, so here's a quick update. Lala was spayed on Wednesday, so she's been home for a couple of days now. I feel a bit bad about saying this, but she's absolutely adorable/hysterical with the cone collar around her head. She doesn't really seem to mind it, but keeps bumping it into various walls, corners, boxes, etc. She also flings food everywhere when she eats and scratching anywhere on her head makes you her most favorite person ever. 

We had some pain pills prescribed, but we can't get her to eat them at all. We've tried hiding them in pill pocket treats, in tuna, wet food... she won't eat any of it. We just end up putting it in her dry food out of desperation... she's eaten one or two this way (or flung them out of sight with her cone).

Bella seems more relaxed around Lala now. She still usually watches from a safe distance, but she's being a bit more aggressive when she's near the door. She'll make a few movements toward Lala while hissing, then moves back to her scratching post to sit and watch. The other night we had the door open slightly so Lala could just peek through and Bella just sat a couple feet in front of the door watching... no hissing or growling at all. Just watching.

I let Lala out for the first time this morning... she seems much more skittish and nervous... probably because most of her senses are dulled by the cone and/or she's still in recovery from surgery. She explored for a while, then went back into her room. Hopefully we can start mixing scents again and Bella won't be as offended by Lala's post-spaying scent.

Happy New Year to everyone... I'll continue to post as the situation progresses.


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

Happy New Year! It's good to hear things are progressing and Bella is no longer so scared to be by the door. Let's hope that once Lala has recovered from her spay, the introduction starts to go according to plan and your two girls are soon getting along!


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## grifter102 (Dec 5, 2010)

Another quick update:

Lala is fully recovered from the spay and as active as ever. She has a few little mice she plays with, batting them around the floor all over her room. They usually end up outside her door since they slide easily underneath it. Whenever I walk by and see them I shoot them back under and her games continue.

Bella still won't really accept Lala, but she seems to be getting better. She doesn't usually go over to the door by herself, but she seems more confident when I'm with her. I'll walk her over to her food, which is now just 2 ft from Lala's door, and pet her while she eats. If Lala comes over to the closed door and her paws come out, Bella growls a bit, but continues eating. She also usually lets me keep petting her. If I go for too long, she'll growl and sometimes lash out at my hand... but she's much better at that now (and my hands are thankful). If the door's open, then Bella will usually hiss at Lala, but keep eating. She'll usually stop after 10-15 seconds if Lala doesn't back away. Sometimes Bella will hiss and lunge a bit at the gate (Lala never moves at all, completely unfazed) and then turn around to her scratching post to hide out. It seems better... but still a long ways away from where I'd like them to be.

Bella has usually been sleeping in our bedroom in the mornings, so we'll close that door and let Lala out for a bit. Lala takes this opportunity to sniff around and run wildly from the back to the front of my condo at warp speed. It's good to see her let loose for a while. We've also been putting Lala on a little harness and leash and bringing her out at night when Bella is near me. The harness makes Lala act like something heavy is pushing down on her back, so she doesn't move around much at all, but whenever she goes toward Bella we can pull back a bit. We've actually gotten them 3 ft from one another and Bella has just hissed a bit, then kind of relaxed.

It's been almost 2 months, and I think we're slowly progressing. I hope that this whole thing works out eventually.


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

Hello again...thanks for the update. It does sound like things are progressing slowly, particularly if you compare Bella's current reaction to how she was at the start. I know it's been two months, but the first month was likely wasted given issues relating to Lala being in heat. So, we won't count the first month! With a bit of luck, friendship is just around the corner.


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## grifter102 (Dec 5, 2010)

I agree, that first month should just be forgotten completely. The very few times we brought Lala out in that first month, Bella would be completely freaked out. If Lala went after her, or Bella was anywhere near Lala's room, Bella would hiss and growl. If I went anywhere near her she'd scratch and claw at me, full force. I'd try to pet her, put her at ease, but she'd just lash out instantly. That random, high-tension, full-force aggression has all but stopped completely. If she does decide to give me the "stop petting me now" signal, she just bats, claws retracted. I think it has to be the spaying... all those foreign pheromones floating around must have sent her into high-alert mode so she'd just attack anything that moved. Tonight, as a good example, went pretty well.

We decided to try something a bit daring... letting Lala roam while Bella sat near me. I thought, "What's the worst that could happen?" and completely ignored all the horrific possibilities. I did have the sense of mind to keep the spray bottle handy, though. Anytime Lala came close enough to Bella to make Bella hiss, I sprayed Lala (anonymously). I'm no kitty-psychologist, but I'm guessing that Bella ends up thinking her hiss is making Lala back off and Lala ends up thinking that Bella has super hissing water beam powers... or something. Bella's confidence in the situation grows, Lala's overconfidence deflates. If Lala learns to stay away then Bella could hopefully gain enough confidence to "meet" Lala nose-to-nose. Problem solved... hopefully.

It's continued now for a little over an hour. Lala's just roaming, Bella's been shifting to maintain optimum spying potential. Only a few sprays needed.

I remain optimistic.


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

Well, you certainly have the right attitude. Optimism certainly beats pessimism. I got a chuckle out of Bella's super hissing water beam powers! But anything that helps to boost Bella's confidence and settle Lala down sounds like a good idea to me. I wish you continued good luck!


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## grifter102 (Dec 5, 2010)

Another weekly update:

We've been letting Lala out for a few hours every day now. Usually at night before bed, but I've stepped it up to another hour or so during the afternoon. Bella will move from spot to spot to find a place to hide and spy, Lala just roams around exploring. A few chases have occurred, but they're only happening when Bella decides to head into the kitchen toward Lala's room. Bella's checked out Lala's room when she's been exploring twice now... that's a good sign, right? Unfortunately, if Lala notices Bella headed over there, Lala bolts right for her. The chase doesn't continue all over the house like it did before, Lala just runs back to defend her territory, stopping just inside her room. Bella usually goes under my bed.

They've actually come really close to one another a few times. Once Lala was in my bedroom while Bella was eating. In order for Lala to make it to her room, she needed to pass within inches of Bella. Bella's hissing, growling and a fake lunge made her stop... but with a bit of encouragement from me she quickly darted into her room. There have even been a couple times in the living room where they've been close enough together that I could put them both at the same time. That's something else I've been making sure to do... whenever I pet one within sight range of the other I always go over and make sure the other gets some attention as well. Hope that's helping.

Lala has been ignoring Bella for the most part. Once she's done exploring she'll sit near Bella, wait for Bella to relax and turn around... then Lala tries to attack her butt. I've usually been able to catch her mid-pounce or spray her with some water... but I have a feeling Bella had better get used to wanting to "play" more often.

This all seems promising to me... Bella doesn't seem to be that stressed out, she's just on edge whenever Lala's close... but she's fallen asleep a few times even though Lala's out roaming. She only growls/hisses when Lala is within a few feet and headed closer. This is all good news, right? We're headed toward... friends? acquaintances? kitty pact of non-agression?


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## grifter102 (Dec 5, 2010)

a picture of the "friends":


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

If you're now able to let them out for a few hours in the evening and in the afternoon without any real serious trouble, then you are heading in the right direction! 

Rather than searching for the water bottle everytime you need to "head off" Lala, you might do what I did (at the recommendation of my behaviorist)...and that is to keep a laser light in your pocket. When Lala looks like she's about to chase or pounce, pull out the laser light and see if you can distract her. Get her to focus her attention on the light rather than on Bella. I used the laser light with Abby, and 9 times out of 10, she would stop chasing Muffs and start chasing the light. When Muffs saw what was going on, Muffs often also started chasing the light and, before they knew it, they were "accidentally" playing together. Also, if you have the light "act" like real prey (by having it slowly climb up a wall or a door frame) that too will attract the cats' attention. 

Continued good luck...and keep the updates coming. You sound like you're getting closer each time.


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## grifter102 (Dec 5, 2010)

The only problem is that once Lala has her sights set on Bella, nothing else can catch her attention. Lala loves her string and feather toy, but if she's in the middle of a stare-down... I can drag it right in front of her and out of sight and she won't even flinch. Bella becomes her primary focus.

We had a bit of a scrape last night... Bella was sleeping on a chair, Lala was just wandering around. She was being so quiet that we actually forgot she was even around. All of a sudden she appears from behind the couch and jumps up on the same chair as Bella, inches from her... but without actually touching. Bella sleepily turns her head, then totally freaks out and runs behind the couch while Lala bolts in the other direction.

A little chase happened earlier, after which Bella hid under my bed for 10 minutes, growling the whole time. After this little "meeting", Bella just came right out from the couch, I showed her that I was taking Lala back to her room, and Bella was completely calm and just waited for me to come back. All of her negative reactions are limited to Lala being within a few feet, headed toward her, and they only last for 10-20 seconds... after which Bella just relaxes. If Lala is on the couch a couple feet away, Bella growls for a bit, then seems to calm down, even if Lala doesn't actually move away.

Now is there anything I could do to make Lala more accepting of Bella being near/in her room? Like take a blanket Bella has been sleeping on and move it into Lala's room? Would that help relax Lala a bit?


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

Getting Lala used to Bella's scent being in her room, via a blanket as you suggest, might help. Also, keeping Lala occupied elsewhere and letting Bella explore in Lala's room could also help, if that's possible. Finally, you might try doing some "play sessions" with the girls (if you don't already), and conduct them in the vicinity of Lala's room -- perhaps 6-10 feet away at first, but then moving closer over time. It might be that one of them won't want to play and will just watch (which is fine).


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## grifter102 (Dec 5, 2010)

I think I finally know what the problem is. If Bella is sitting anywhere or sleeping, Lala is generally good. She may go near her, but as soon as Bella starts to growl or hiss, Lala backs off or just sits down for a while, then walks away. If Bella is walking around on the ground in the open, Lala goes right for her, every time.

I've held her down by her scruff until she stops trying to go after her... as soon as I let up, she bolts right for her. We've tried to spray her, it'll send her off-course, but the next day if she's out, she'll go right for Bella when Bella's walking around. At this point, whenever Bella is walking around she's completely freaked that Lala will chase after her.

I've tried to punish Lala by loudly saying "NO", picking her up and putting her in her room with the lights off... but it doesn't seem to be doing anything at all. The second she gets back out she seems to be behaving... until Bella's in the open.

It took me a little while to put it together, since Lala would sometimes go for Bella while she was sleeping/sitting, and whenever Lala is out Bella usually just stays seated... so it would seem that they were getting along. Last night Bella was walking around more, and whenever Lala saw her we'd have to catch her and stop her from chasing. Toys and distractions do nothing, I have to either physically hold her down or spray her before she starts running.

Punishments don't seem to have any affect... I locked her in her carrier in her room with the door open so Bella could check it out with Lala completely contained... Bella wouldn't go in the room and Lala just laid down. I let Lala out of the carrier after 30 minutes or so, she just acted like nothing big had happened and even went back into the carrier a few times while exploring. There's also no way to reward her for good behavior. I can try to pet her, but she doesn't really seem that pleased by it. She will not eat any treats, tuna, wet food... anything. She only eats her dry food from her bowl, only when she's really hungry.

Part of me is thinking since Lala may have had a hard "street life" before we got her that she has already learned to be aggressive and is desensitized to negative conditions... but I really don't know.


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

When Lala chases Bella, is it truly aggressive? Or is it possible that Lala is just trying to play? It's not unusual for cats to chase each other in play, but it takes two to enjoy the fun. 

That was the problem with my girls. Abby constantly chased Muffs whenever they were together and Muffs would run away. Nothing I did stopped Abby. When my behaviorist observed them, he was able to tell that Abby was just trying to play, but Muffs was misinterpreting. He told me that there was nothing I could do to stop Abby from chasing...the trick was to get Muffs to the point where she was willing to join in the fun. That meant more time behind gates, and more good things by the gate, to get Muffs to the point where she was no longer afraid of Abby. It took months, but Muffs finally got there. Now the two girls chase each other all around, but they clearly both enjoy it. 

So, if Lala's chasing appears more along the lines of playfulness than real aggression, I think you need to try more time behind gates (and more good things by the gate) in order for Bella to spend more time with Lala in a non-threatening way, such that she eventually stops being so fearful of her.


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## grifter102 (Dec 5, 2010)

Okay. It doesn't seem truly aggressive... it probably is just that she wants to play. I'll try to have more good things happen near the door... it's just incredibly frustrating, because whenever Bella is by the door she's grumpy and refuses to play or do anything that seems like she's remotely enjoying herself.

I take it I shouldn't be letting Lala out anymore until Bella is a bit better? Or should I continue but just take Lala back to her room whenever Bella gets up and starts moving around?

It's been over two months and Bella may not be as scared, but she still hates Lala... Lala doesn't seem to care at all about anything... and my hands and arms are covered in scratches and cuts from random cat freakouts. Not much to show for 2 months.


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## Modra (Jan 17, 2011)

I can fully understand your problem as I have exactly the same issue these days. I think you should do something about it, otherwise it will take ages for them to get along. Here is how my story is progressing. 
We befriended neighbour's cat or better said, she befriended us. Her name is Sheilla. She used to come in our house, get food and attention. Many people visiting us were initially thinking she was our cat because she was always around and very confortable on our property. 
But I didn't want to "steal" her from my neighbour and the circumstances were that I decided to rescue a stray who was in our yard, then taken to the SPCA by another neighbour. So when I brough the stray in, her name is Modra, the issues begun. 
Modra wanted to make things very clear from the start: this was her food and her territory. Sheilla was unwelcomed and although we tried to make it easier for Sheilla, petting her in her yard and giving her food, the two little "bitches" would not see fit to get along at all. Sheilla would still visit especially in evenings and Modra would go nuts, she would chase and growl at her and Sheilla would meow disappoited. Real confrontation between them is unlikely because Modra is half the size of Sheilla, but still the hissing and the chasing, the growling and the constant tension are aweful. 
The situation drove both me and my hubby nuts, I even cried one time thinking I may lose the special bond with Sheilla and I felt so torn between them. Sheilla got ill because of stress, she started sneezing as she would stay on the fence in the cold rain glancing into my kitchen. At some point I said: all right, that's enough! I can't take this drama anymore. So when Sheilla visited in the evening, we got between them and Modra was taught she has to stay aside and let Sheilla play with us. Of course she would get attention as well, we would take turns: my hubby would pet Sheilla and I would pet Modra, then we'd change places. After this, Modra got so stressed that she became physically ill the next day, she didn't eat and she even puked. I rushed to the vet and he said it's probably stress and asked me to keep an eye on her. So I took her on my lap and kissed her, then I bought her some yummy livers and venison mince and in the evening she was back at climbing trees as finally, she understood that her food supply is secure and the attention is assured also. Now she tolerates Sheilla, who is so jealous on Modra's priviledges that she meows and scratches us (she does it on purpose, it's not just redirected anger) but at least she hangs around. The "bitches" would also turn eachother mad by playing with me in front of the other or by ostentaciously eating in front of the other and licking her paws while the other watches. Ah, cats!
So to sum it up, you need to make sure both cats understand that you love both of them and you also love them individually. They perhaps feel insecure and uncomfortable around eachother, it takes time and sometimes they never become friends, but they can tolerate each other's presence. They are jealous on eachother and in need of establishing rules, territory, etc. At some stage they will agree to share time with you. Do not medle with this arrangement. When one is sitting relaxed (or pretending to) and you play with the other one, don't call the sitting one to you. They may even chose to be in separate rooms when this happens. Leave it like this. 
When the distance between them will shorten in other occassions that fighting, you will know that they start to feel more at ease around each other.
I hope it helps and my sympathies for your situation.


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

You can let Lala out as long as you can prevent the chasing, which might mean taking Lala back to her room (or taking Bella back to her room) when "trouble" starts. Every time Lala chases Bella, it just reinforces Bella's view that Lala is something to fear or something to dislike. So every chase is a step backwards. The more backward steps you can avoid, the sooner you'll move forward. 

When I started letting my girls be together at first, I would always start off at mealtime, since they were more interested in eating than in playing. After eating, all cats will groom (that's instinctual), so they were fine then too. Thereafter, I played it by ear and often had to separate them 5 or 10 minutes later. You might try that approach, although it might not work for you if Lala is being free-fed since they're would then be no such thing as "mealtime".

I also wouldn't punish Lala for chasing Bella, since she's not really doing anything wrong (even though you wish she wouldn't chase!). Obviously, you must put an initial stop to the chasing when it happens (and preferably before it happens), but I'd then either take Lala into her room and play with her -- since play is what she needs. Or I'd put Bella in a room and let Lala run around freely for a while, to sort of burn off her excess energy. Rather than using your hands to separate the cats, and getting scratched, try half-filling a can with coins and giving it a loud shake. That always separated my girls instantly. 

I know it's frustrating and I won't sugar-coat things. Given that Bella is around 6 years old and has never lived with another cat, it could take a while before she's willing to accept another cat...and, at some point, you might come to the conclusion that she'd be better off as an only cat. I do hope you start to see some noticeable improvement soon!


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## grifter102 (Dec 5, 2010)

Modra:

Thanks for the shared experience... it's always good to hear that other people have gone through the same general issues and ended up with positive results. Whenever I feel like something good has happened, the next day it'll seem like i've taken several giant steps backwards. I don't know if you read the whole post (it's quite long), but you'd probably notice that the mood of my posts has been fluctuating just as much as the relationship between the two cats. I keep having to remind myself that I'm headed in the right direction... the problem is that when something new starts to happen, I'll check online for information and I seem to always find the most negative interpretation of the events possible. "Oh, your cat is constantly chasing your other cat? Too bad, it'll never work, you're screwed." I know that it's just an opinion based on someone else's experience... but I can't help but believe it a little bit because of my own frustrations.

Susan:

Thanks for your calm reassurances... it gives me a bit of hope that they'll eventually get along. 

My old roommate, Joe, who originally cat-sit Bella was told by her original owners that she was "anti-social" and "a c***" (yup, that's what they said) and he reminded me of that yesterday after I was venting on facebook about the cats. It only served to make me feel worse about the situation... until I remembered that Bella and Joe hate a mutual hate for each other. Joe would always chase her around or push her off ledges (yup, not nice) and she would retaliate by throwing up on his clothes or computer (which was actually pretty hilarious since he really deserved it). I think that may have something to do with why Bella is afraid of confrontation... any time she ever got into a "fight" it was with a 270lb, 6'3" guy (she was never going to win those)... so she's afraid that she'll lose every fight (even with a kitty half her size). I think this also caused Bella's attachment to me, since I was really the only one there who took care of her and she felt safe with. This makes me think that she'll eventually be okay with Lala once she realizes that her position with me is safe... and she tends to just go along with what I want and feels safer around me.

I had a great play session with the two of them last night. Once Bella's feeder went off I waited a little while and then went into Lala's room to try and play with the both of them. If Bella's feeling grumpy, she will usually move back as far as she can from the area (which is a major frustration, since when I try to play with her or give her treats near Lala's room she'll just move further and further away). I tossed one treat near to her, then tossed a couple more very close to the door. She refused to move, so I just started playing with Lala. After a little while I noticed that Bella had actually come all the way to the wood in front of the door. Lala stopped being interested in playing at all and hid halfway behind the door to watch Bella. At this point I got out the laser and Bella was actually jumping around and playing with it, right in front of the doorway. Eventually she settled down and just stared at Lala, I played with Lala and after a few minutes Bella left for the living room. All-in-all it went very well.

Later that night Bella was sleeping on my lap and Amy let Lala out to play (after giving her a bit of Calm Down, which seems to help). Lala was wandering, I kept petting Bella (I mentioned before that this scares the crap out of me, since if I'm petting Bella and she sees Lala I usually get scratched)... but Bella seemed okay. There were three times that Lala came up on the couch and was within swiping distance of Bella... Bella hissed and took one swipe at Lala (Lala just ignored her and went to the window), then she looked at me... but never attacked me at all. I just kept my hand on her back and she calmed down within a few seconds. This continued for a while until Lala went back into her room and started hiding behind the door... which seemed like a good signal for me to go in there, shut the door and "put her to bed" (play a little bit, turn the lights for the night). Bella was just waiting for me to return, and she chased a couple of treats then went back to sleep. Good night.

On a completely different note... Lala seems to be deathly afraid of my dustmop. I washed it so it shouldn't smell like anything anymore... but she's TERRIFIED of it. I don't really use it that often and usually just vacuum (which she's not afraid of at all), so it's just sitting there by the laundry machines... but she'll approach it all nervously... stalk around it keeping at least 2 ft of distance... if any loud noise happens she'll jump a foot in the air and run back into her room. I moved it near her once, and she just kept backing away and eventually ran under the bed in her room. This is the only thing that she seems to be afraid of at all. It's bizarre, but also kinda hilarious... since she'll run right up to a hissing, spitting, clawing cat twice her size... yet is petrified with fear at the sight of a fluffy white dustmop. Hah.


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

I don't think much of Joe, and was pleased to hear Bella threw up on his clothes and computer! 

I would ignore all of the "it won't work" comments for now. Admittedly, in some cases, two cats just can't get along...but until you're ready to throw in the towel, I'd just keep thinking positively. My behaviorist told me you can't really tell unless you faithfully stick to an introduction for at least 3 months and you still see no signs of progress, whereupon it would be time to think of other options. And "faithfully sticking" to an introduction can be a lot of work. It means having 10+ good things per day happen with the cats in each other's company (play time, feeding, treats, etc.). During the week, I would spend at least 2 hours per day with the girls on either side of screened doors/gates...playing, feeding, grooming, treating, etc...and usually 3 hours on weekends. I went to work for a rest! But, it was worth all of the work in the end.

Yesterday's play session sounds really positive. If you can find a way to prevent the chasing, you will likely have more such positive sessions. And, perhaps you've found a solution to stop Lala from chasing -- Bring out the dustmop!


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## grifter102 (Dec 5, 2010)

When you say "2 hours per day" by the gate it really worries me... because there is no way that I can pull that off. Bella is a pretty sedentary cat who only wants to play for 15-20 minutes at a time. Once she's done... she's done for hours. She goes back to one of her spots and sleeps or grooms. I'd actually be surprised if she was active for more than a few hours every day. Given that the longest I can make a play session last is about 20 minutes (maybe 30, if she's particularly active that day), I'd have to get her over to Lala's door 6 times a day during the week and 9 times during weekends. She'll stop wanting to play after 20 minutes even out in the living room... when she's near Lala's door she usually ends up walking away after 10 or 15 minutes. She may come back, but usually goes to her radiator or chair to sleep.

So that scares me, since even if I had the time to pull that off, I couldn't actually get Bella to participate the entire time. I think that what we're doing is working, even if there's only an hour or so of play time near the door. We get in another hour of play with Lala in the living room at night. Last night Lala came walking in and was going straight for Bella until she saw a string, then played with it with me for a good 20 minutes (which I think confirms the theory that she's going to Bella for play, not out of aggression). During that time, Bella actually moved *closer* to see what was going on. So our play time may be a bit less, but I think that it's working.

Another amusing Lala note: After playing with her and the string for a while, I went back to the couch and Bella jumped up on my lap. Lala was just lounging on the floor, then got up and headed back to her room. I thought she was done for the night... but then she comes back out with her feather toy in her mouth. She walked right into the living room and started beeping (a hilarious sound that she makes) to get attention. She jumped up on the couch and dropped the feathers right near me and Bella. It was beyond adorable.

Amy tied the feathers to the end of the string and Lala went nuts, playing for another 30 minutes. I tossed some treats on the floor for Bella when Lala was a bit away and Bella went right after them (she usually won't go near the floor when Lala's out). Lala ended up catching notice and came over to investigate... Bella hissed and backed off... but it didn't end up in a chase. Bella actually held her ground a bit while Lala backed off some. We left it at that and Amy took Lala to play in her room for a while. I played with Bella for a bit more before she jumped on her chair and went to sleep.

btw. the last playtime with Bella I used one of those hexbug nano things. It's basically a vibrating motor attached to some rubber feet that makes the thing seem just like a real bug (it's a fancier version of a bristle bot). the thing just zooms around on the floor, rebounding off walls and flipping itself over whenever necessary. I set up a little enclosed space on the floor and let it go... absolutely hilarious watching bella be completely enthralled.


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

As for the 2 hours, I think I had a few advantages over you. First, Muffs always wanted to be with me. Wherever I would go, she would follow. She was my little shadow. So, I had no trouble getting her to the screen. I would just go and she would follow. Also, when I adopted Abby, she was only 10 weeks and Muffs was about 4 months, so they were both babies and they loved to play. Of course, all the books say two young kittens are a cinch to introduce and, just my luck, I ended up with two kittens who decided they wanted to prove the books wrong...but that's another story. So, I would start in the morning feeding them either side of the screen and then do a play session, which combined took about a half hour. Same routine again when I got home from work. And then usually three 20 minutes play sessions during the evening. Since they were kittens, it was fun and Abby was more than happy to play. Muffs sometimes played and sometimes just watched (since she was a little scared), but she would always remain by the screen, since I was there.

In your case, I can see the problem. So, I wouldn't worry about the length of time spent...just try and have two or three short play sessions, either by the gate or supervised in the living room, as you're doing. That, plus feeding them by the gate (or in each other's company if that works). 

On the plus side, you seem to be able to let Lala and Bella out in the same room together without too much ado (at least for the past few days), which is a very good sign...as is the fact that Bella held her ground yesterday. The more she does that, the closer you'll be to success. Other good signs are if Bella is willing to sleep with Lala in the room, or even sit with her back to Lala (i.e., not constantly on guard watching Lala's every move). 

I had to google "hexbug nano" since I didn't know what you were talking about and, regrettably, bristle bot didn't enlighten me either. They're cool. I can see my girls having fun with them. I think I'm off to ToysRus!


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## grifter102 (Dec 5, 2010)

Ahh... I figured with the internet that everything could be googled. The "bristle bots" was a DIY project that someone came up with a year or so back using just a phone vibrating motor, two wires, a battery and a toothbrush head. I thought about making one for Bella, but I realized it would be *very* homemade and she'd probably end up swallowing a battery or something. When I saw the commercial for them, they looked really sturdy and the fact that they flip themselves over was a huge plus.

I put a little dinner tray down and two of the bugs in it, just letting them bounce around. Bella was watching them and Lala came over to watch, too. She got a swipe, but neither of them really backed off, they just watched. Here's a pic right before the swipe:










They continued to watch for a while, Lala would sometimes paw at one, Bella just sat and growled a bit.

Since I know how everyone likes pics... Lala also loves to go right near Bella while she's resting. Bella growls and hisses, instead of backing off, Lala will sit right down near her. Like here, for example:










Also, that's the chair that Bella spends close to 10 hours a day in. At least.

And one more, because Lala is ridiculously cute:


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

Awww...cute pics. I like the one of Lala grooming. She is sweet. And Bella doesn't look too perturbed with Lala only a few feet away, so that's a good sign.

So, true to my word, I went to Toys R Us and bought a couple of hexbug nanos! About 80% of the main floor of my house comprises either hardwood or ceramic floors. So, I let one of the little bugs loose. It ran all over the main floor, and the girls went nuts. They followed it about trying to pounce on it. At one point, it went under the couch and they were mesmerized. They looked underneath the couch and could see that it was headed out the other end...so, they went to the other end of the couch and waited for it to emerge, which it did. A few times, Muffs pawed at it or pounced on it, but the little bug just turned around and "went after" Muffs' leg. She jumped about six inches off the ground, backed up, gave it a suspicious look and then started chasing it again. I was doubled over in laughter at their antics. Thanks for the tip!


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## Modra (Jan 17, 2011)

They will eventually get along. Look, my girls started to sort of play with each other. Modra is walking behind Sheilla and Sheilla makes a lot of noise as if she was scared or annoyed, but it's all fun, otherwise Sheilla would just run away and not come back to see us. The no-hissing distance between them came under 1m!
I think in your case, talking calmly with them and giving them treats (whatever each seems to like) when they are together can make a huge difference. They will soon understand that they have to co-exist, so even if they will be friends or not, they will at least live together without throwing tantrums. It can take a long time and indeed sentimentally it's a roller coaster, but hang on, be calm and let things unfold while making sure both get attention and treats (especially when they are good girls and tolerate each-others presence)


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## grifter102 (Dec 5, 2010)

Another update:

I think ribbon is the key. Bella loves ribbon... the thin, shiny, christmas ribbon with curls and twists. She goes crazy over it... it's by far her favorite thing to play with. The reason that I don't use it that often is because she will eat it. All of it, every time. She'll gnaw it into pieces then chow down the whole thing. This leads to either ribboned vomit or ribbon in the litter box. I hadn to stop because I figured it'd eventually become all tangled in her and cause some SERIOUS problems.

That being said... one of the little hexbugs went under the door to the closet, got stuck on some old ribbon and dragged it out. Bella went crazy for it so I played with her for a bit (making sure she didn't inhale it like usual). Later that day when Bella was on the radiator behind my desk, Lala came out and I used the ribbon to play with her. She loved it (especially when I tied it around her favorite feathers) and started batting it around all over the place. Bella took notice and (this is why I think the ribbon has magic powers) actually moved CLOSER to Lala. She came from the radiator to my desk and just started to watch. No growling, no hissing... just watching.

Later that night Lala came out again while Bella was on the couch. I brought out the ribbon/feathers to play with... and Lala jumped right up on the couch near Bella. Lala played with the feathers, Bella just watched... never joining in. She was just barely growling... more like a disgruntled huff than anything else. They were maybe 1-2 ft from one another... see below:



















Sometime after this Bella just went to sleep, Lala was just hanging out. I started to pet Bella, and her low growls turned almost into purrs. She had her back to Lala while I rubbed her chin. At this point, Lala gets up slowly and moves right up to Bella's back and sniffs her. Nose right to Bella's fur. Bella was still a bit on edge, noticed the new touch, turned around and met face-to-face with Lala. She hissed, swatted, Lala backed off... but Bella didn't move after that. I couldn't pet her anymore and she was definitely peeved... but not as serious of a reaction as I would have expected. I know every time Bella is freaked out by Lala that it's a step in the wrong direction... but it seems that every time she does freak out she freaks out a bit less... so it's a step backward... but an indicator of overall forward progress.

Since then Bella still hisses and will sometimes run away from Lala... but there have been a few times where she'll stand her ground and swat until Lala backs off. I think based on the sniffing incident that Lala doesn't have any aggression toward Bella, she just wants to meet her and play. Bella is becoming more calm around Lala (and even hanging out by her closed door occasionally when I'm not even over there) but still doesn't like to meet with her face-to-face or when they're both walking around. She'll still randomly freak out and run away even when Lala is behind the gate... but I think she's slowly getting better.

And one more pic of Lala falling asleep:


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

That's definitely getting better! Especially the part about Bella sleeping when Lala was out in the open and the fact that Bella hissed, swatted and didn't move, rather than running away. Bella's starting to stand her ground, which is great. I'm not sure how often you have them out together these days, but I'd increase it to as often as you're home to supervise and you aren't engrossed in other things (or in need of a break!). 

Also, more play (but not snacktime!) with the magic ribbon sounds like a good idea, since both girls seems to enjoy that. You might see if you can get them playing with it together. If Bella's tooi uncomfortable to play with Lala out in the open, you can try playing beside the gate. Just take a long piece of ribbon, hold it above the gate and dangle/wiggle the ribbon on either side of the gate to see if both girls will play with it, with the safety/comfort of the gates between them. I used to do that with a piece of string, and it's a game both girls enjoyed. 

I agree that Bella is slowly getting better. You often don't notice much change from day to day, since the change is so gradual, but if you look from week to week or month to month, Bella is clearly getting much more comfortable with Lala.

I enjoyed your pics...and thanks again for the tip on the hexbug. It is now Muffs' favorite toy. The instant I turn it on, she comes running, even if she's in the next room. She hears the little buzz and that does it.

Continued good luck to you, Amy and the girls!


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## grifter102 (Dec 5, 2010)

I'm glad that she likes the hexbug... I feel like I've finally given you a bit of help after all the help you've given me 

Another update on the kitties:

Lala's been coming out for around 5-6 hours a day now. A few hours during the afternoon while I work and then again at night. Whenever Lala's out, she explores for a while and then goes straight to Bella. When Bella's in her chair by the Feliway, she usually just hisses and swats a bit. Lala will put her front paws on the chair, get right up next to Bella, and she'll just hiss. No freakouts or running or anything.

The main issue is still when Bella is walking around... Lala will give chase about half of the time. There have been a few times where Bella almost seems to want to run around for a bit. She'll jump off of her radiator and take off toward Lala's room. Lala tears off after her... but Bella either is too fast and turns the corner, hides, then trots out once she's lost Lala... or if Lala follows her the whole way she'll just run back to the radiator or couch. 

There have been a few big fights/chases... Bella will always be the first one to start swatting and I think Lala thinks she's trying to play, so she'll start pawing back at her. Once she does Bella will completely freak and the whole thing turns ugly. Jars of coins, water guns... nothing really works except putting something in between them and scooping up Lala. I think Bella's a bit more wary of going near Lala after the last fight that they had.... a step backwards, unfortunately.

I thought that Bella was finally learning to stand her ground the other day. She had jumped up on our glass coffee table and lala got on the middle shelf. She kept trying to grab Bella's tail. Bella'd hiss and swat, but never got off the table. Lala would jump down, move around to the other side, Bella'd whack her a few more times. I was enjoying the whole scene a bit too much (it was hilarious watching Lala stalk her tail) and suddenly Lala pops up and grabs Bella's butt with both hands. Bella freaked and took off running... luckily we were able to grab Lala before she could follow.

There seems to be a bit of progress... but it's still going very slowly. I need to make sure that we always catch Lala before she takes off for Bella. Toys and such just don't seem to keep her attention when she could be going after a live target. Nothing about her chases seems hostile... but I'm not quite sure what to look for. The only time Lala has ever swatted at Bella has been when Bella's started it... and Lala never hisses or extends her claws. Bella even cut Lala's lip, and Lala just flinched a bit. No growling or attacking on her part.

We just keep on moving... hopefully forward.


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

If Bella and Lala are able to be together for 5-6 hours per day now, then you're definitely moving forward! 

It sounds to me that Lala is just trying to play. I suspect Bella will take a while longer yet, given her age and the fact that she's not used to sharing her castle with mere minions.

Have you tried other holistic products, such as Rescue Remedy? They make various "remedies", including one to help slow down chasing cats and another to give "scaredy cats" a bit more confidence. I never got around to using the product, since I found Feliway had quite a noticeable calming influence on Muffs. However, I know other members here have had good success with Rescue Remedy.

And you're most welcome for the help...besides you and Amy are doing all of the work...I'm just the cheerleader.


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## grifter102 (Dec 5, 2010)

Time for the weekly update:

I've seen some big (relatively) improvements in Bella lately. First, she's been hanging out in her box by Lala's door much more often. Whenever she wants food or seems a bit bored, she heads over there and jumps in her box... even if I'm someplace else entirely. She's even started letting me pet her when she's over there. It used to be just growling and clawing if I got within a few inches... now she'll actually turn over and let me rub her chin... and even purr a bit. Whenever I'm hanging out in Lala's room she'll just sit in the box... I'll give her a few treats... and this morning I was even able to pet her through the bars.

Bella's general zones of discomfort have decreased in size as well. It used to be that if Lala was within 4-5 ft Bella would growl, 2-3 ft she'd start hissing and anywhere closer than a foot and she'd start clawing. Now she barely hisses unless Lala comes extremely close... then hissing and clawing. But Bella will barely growl unless Lala is within 3ft of her. She's even holding her ground a bit more... there have been a couple times where Lala would run right past her, and Bella would growl... until she realized Lala was running after something else.

Lala still wants to meet and play with Bella... so whenever Bella calms down she'll try... but Bella still swats and runs away. Lala has become much better about chasing, though... she doesn't have the overwhelming need to follow her everywhere. On that note... Bella has actually been following Lala around. Whenever I play with Lala, Bella usually will get up and move closer, but always behind cover. She's also figured out that high ground is very defensible (sun tzu kitty) and whenever Lala tries to come in Bella will jump up somewhere where Lala either can't reach or Bella can easily just swat her away.

I think we're definitely making progress. I just picked up some Rescue Remedy today, so I'll be trying that out later tonight. My schedule for the cats starts out in Lala's room for an hour or so at 7 or 8 while Bella sits in her box, then I leave her in her room until 9:30 or 10, when I let her out. Bella's usually on her radiator, just watching. Sometimes she comes down and there may be some hissing... but I'm usually able to keep any actual fights or chases from happening. Eventually Lala will just play while Bella watches on. At noon or 1 I'll put her back in her room to give myself and Bella a little break. Sometimes I'll go into her room around 3 or 4, sometimes I'll let her out again. Depending on if she came out or not in the afternoon, I might let her out again around 7 or 8 at night. We've also started going into Lala's room at 10 or 11, just to play with her a bit more and tire her out before bed. Like I said before, whenever I'm in Lala's room, Bella's in her box... been that way for a few days now. If Lala's out, Bella's usually perched somewhere where she can get a good view... sometimes she'll even go and check out Lala's room. Those times are the most dangerous... because if Lala sees Bella headed in that direction it takes a LOT of attention to pull her away. We've been getting better at it, and the last 2 days have been completely chase free. Just hissing, some swatting... but no full-out chases at all. I think all this is progress.

I'll let you know how the Rescue Remedy works out... I'll dose Bella and Lala before letting them out tonight... see if we can't get them to hang out together for a while in a drug-induced happy haze.

Oh... and another picture. Bella and Lala were both facing each other on the floor with some ribbon. Lala acted like she was walking away, but made her way around the other side of the coffee table, then inside the table and came out ready to pounce on Bella's butt. She's a little instigator... 









https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_...AALs/RRQbJVwo55Y/s640/IMG_20110219_100245.jpg


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## catloverami (Jul 5, 2010)

Bella may never be cuddle buddies with Lala, but she's come a long way to accepting her near her. Congrats, on your optimism, patience and perseverance. I think their relationship will continue to improve.


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

I'm pleased to hear the progress continues! Before Abby arrived on the scene, Muffs always used to sleep in my room. Then, after Abby had been here a few months, Muffs would leave my room a few minutes after lights out, and I could never figure out why she left or where she went. So, one night I quietly snuck out after her to see where she went. I found her sitting outside Abby's safe room. I wasn't sure if that was a good sign or a bad sign. I figured it was a good sign if she was becoming more curious and/or more accepting of Abby. But, I figured it was not such a good sign if she was guarding the door to ensure Abby didn't escape from her room overnight! I now presume it must have been a good sign, because about 3 or 4 weeks later, I could safely say the introduction had finally worked and my girls were on the road to becoming friends. So, here's hoping that's true in your case too.

I like your picture, and it is a good sign that Bella is sitting with her back to Lala...that signals acceptance...and make no mistake, Bella knows Lala is there, despite the little instigator's attempts to fool her!

Good luck with the Rescue Remedy. Let's hope that brings even more progress.


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## grifter102 (Dec 5, 2010)

I think it's a good sign, too. Bella seems to be much less afraid of Lala than she was. Now she just seems annoyed and doesn't want to have her around. Lala's also been better about chasing Bella down. If Bella hisses, she'll stop right where she is - she seems to be able to put aside her curiosity in favor of not being smacked. Bella is also walking out in the open more when Lala's around. Just a few minutes ago Bella had moved toward the couch, away from Lala. Lala sat down and when I went into the kitchen, Bella followed right along, passing right in front of Lala. No hissing or growling or anything... just a normal walk. Lala just watched, didn't follow at all. Once Bella was in the kitchen, Lala came through, Bella hissed but Lala made a wide circle around her to get to her room. We're both in here now, Bella's just hanging out in her box, just outside the gate, while Lala sits just inside the gate. The other day Bella was on her scratching wave and I decided to let Lala out and see what would happen. Lala went just outside the gate and sat down - they just watched each other for a few minutes before Lala came back inside. I like those calm, stress-free interactions.










The orange box is where she usually sits. It's either there or in her little wave scratching thingie.

As far as the Rescue Remedy goes... it seems to work on Lala... she's much calmer with it. It's more difficult to tell with Bella, since it's difficult to actually give it to her. She doesn't like the smell of it, so if I put it on a treat she won't eat it. I've had some success with filling a pill pocket treat up with a couple of drops. She'll eat that, but some of the stuff spills out when she breaks the treat apart. I've put some on her directly... but she doesn't like the wet feeling and runs away if I get too close with the dropper now. Guess I'll just have to keep using the pill pockets and hope she gets the full dose.


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

This is all sounding very good and, yes, there's a lot to be said for calm, stress-free interactions. I have one of those wavy scratching thingies and, interestingly, I refer to it as a wavy scratching thingie! As for giving Bella the RR, perhaps you can mix it with something that's yummy and even smellier...such as a bit of sardine or a bit of tuna with juice.


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## grifter102 (Dec 5, 2010)

I think both of my cats are pretty weird in that neither of them will touch anything wet. Tuna, sardines, canned food, etc. Neither will eat anything wet at all. The pill pockets seem to be working, I can fill one up with RR and Bella will eat it right up. She seems to calm down a bit with it... which leads me to the past 36 hours... which have been very eventful.

I've already said that Bella has been hanging out in her box near Lala's door, but she's also been sneaking into Lala's room occasionally to snoop around. It's never for more than a few seconds... but it's still something. The other night when Lala was hanging out in our library, Bella headed over to her room and spent almost a minute poking around. Later on that night when we put Lala to bed, Bella started back up with her spazzy running back and forth through the house. She used to do it once or twice a week before we had Lala... I don't really remember her doing it since. It seems like she's resuming somewhat of a normal routine and increasing her overall energy level... instead of just sleeping and moving back and forth between safe hiding spots.

So this morning I went through my usual routine of hanging out with Lala in her room for a while; bella sat outside. Once Bella went into our bedroom to sleep, I let Lala out. This time, however, Bella got back up and started wandering around, following Lala. They both ended up outside Lala's gate with only a few feet between them, sitting down staring at each other. Every other time this has happened Lala will either walk away, move closer to Bella or Bella will grumble and run away. This morning Bella decided to hiss and lunge at Lala, forcing her back into her room. She didn't run away or anything, she hissed, swatted and (atypically) stood her ground and just sat outside the gate.

I tried to calm her down a bit, she stopped growling and then I went to console Lala a bit. Bella stayed where she was, observing the two of us. Since she had calmed down a bit, I decided to give her a RR-laced treat. Prepare for the completely unexpected...

I picked up the bag of treats, and Bella comes running INTO Lala's room. I was completely stunned... 8O Lala startled, totally confused, but didn't run away (I think it was more of a wtf? moment for her). Bella ran about 4 ft into the room... then i think she remembered that she's supposed to be AFRAID of Lala - not just go charging in - and she ran right back out again... but then stopped, turned around and sat right in front of the gate, eager for the treat. I regained some composure (and wished that I had a camera running), filled up the treat and passed it to her. After a few minutes Bella hadn't really moved or hissed or anything, so I picked up the treat bag again... and she comes back into the room, again - this time just her two front feet. She backed up almost immediately... but still... she came in, with Lala right there.

So two things:

1. Bella is showing aggression toward Lala... not just defensively like in the past, but _initiating _aggression on her own.
2. Bella came into Lala's room... _when Lala was already in there!_ _Twice!!_

Are these good things? Is Bella gaining confidence and asserting her dominance (like she should have done much earlier...) and this is leading toward peaceful coexistence... or is she finally gaining the confidence to attack Lala and try to drive her away? Is she going into Lala's room out of curiosity, to gather information about a new potential friend? Or is she trying to reclaim her lost territory and gain information in order to defeat her new enemy?

I'm pretty sure both of these events are big steps in _some _direction... I just don't know _which _direction...


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

I think Bella's willingness to go into Lala's room is a very good sign. She's starting to be more curious and she's not constantly focused on her fear...she's more interested in treats. Asserting dominance is also a good sign, although I wish there hadn't been hissing and growling involved, since that part is not so good. Still, it's not exactly the end of the world either. So, all in all, I would say progress continues to be made!


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## grifter102 (Dec 5, 2010)

Another update:

Absolutely no progress at all in the past 2 weeks. We may have even gone backwards. Every time Lala gets close to Bella, separated by bars or in person, she hisses, growls and swats. She'll sit in her box right outside Lala's door and whenever Lala comes by, she'll completely freak out, hissing, attacking Lala through the bars and then jumping out of her box and running away. Lala doesn't even do anything, she just walks up to the bars and Bella completely freaks out. Bella will come back right away, and then freak out again. Rescue Remedy doesn't seem to do anything. There are 2 Feliway diffusers within 10 ft of the location, and those don't seem to help.

She'll stay in her box for up to an hour with her back to the door... but if she hears Lala approach, she instantly becomes agitated and will turn around and swat at anything nearby. I've been trying to calm her down and pet her... which will work for a little while to stop her growling... but the sight of Lala causes instant aggression and tension. She'll lash out at anything near her and run away.

I thought she was getting better, allowing Lala closer without freaking out... but lately it's just been the same exact story, every single day.


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

I'm so sorry to hear your most recent update. I take it you can't think of any "triggering" event that has caused this backslide. How often is Lala out and about in the main house each day now?


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## grifter102 (Dec 5, 2010)

For the past few days I've been trying to figure out what the trigger is or what exactly was causing it all. I thought that Bella may be sick.... she's never shown any signs of sickness other than the very occasional sneeze... and very rarely she won't open one of her eyes fully... but that always goes away after I intervene with a tissue or she just rubs it herself. If she _was_ sick, then it may explain her hostility, since she would be worried about a new cat taking over her territory while she's weakened.

Up until now I could see progress; lacking that I was seriously doubting that this would work out at all. I went to read in Lala's room for a while, and the box that Bella has been sitting in was pressed right up against Lala's gate - not where I had left it. It's been moving slightly closer and closer to her room, since every time Bella jumps into it or furiously jumps out of it her weight will slide it closer to the door, a few inches every time. I moved it all the way to the back wall, about 30in from the door, then sat down in her room to read.

20 minutes later, Bella came by and sat in her box, as usual. She was calm, but then Lala noticed her and went charging up to the gate. I thought, "Here we go again...", fully expecting Bella to hiss, charge the gate herself, fight and then take off running, as this has been the norm for weeks. She didn't even blink. Lala was up against the gate, paws sticking through futilely reaching out to Bella... and Bella just stared at her. No hissing, growling... anything.

Completely confused... I tried to figure out some sort of reason for all this... and then I realized how far back I had moved the box. Instead of being within 18in from the door like usual, she was a little less than twice that distance back.

When I originally put her box down, it was about 2ft away, but every time Bella got in or out of it she had slid the box slightly closer... maybe she had just slid it slightly too close. My theory was validated last night... Bella was on my lap, Lala came out and was walking around with Bella just calmly watching... sometimes even purring. At one point Lala jumped up on the couch and even thought I had some pillows blocking her, she was able to come in fairly close. Bella started to growl, Lala sat down... but Bella's agitation increased until she lunged forward from my lap to try and smack Lala... then she took off running. Before letting myself descend into pessimism yet again... I looked at the distance between where Bella was and Lala was currently being held down (since I almost didn't catch her before she sprinted after Bella). Distance.. about 16 inches.

I think I just found the magic numbers:

<18in = crazy cat freakout mayhem
>18in = completely calm staredown

18in must be her striking distance... anything within that and she feels like an attack could come at any minute... but outside that and she's fine. I tested it out a bit later... pushing her and her box slightly closer to the gate - instant growling. I pulled it back a bit and the growling faded away.

So maybe this little problem is solved... maybe I just keep then a foot and a half apart for a while and _slowly (very very slowly)_ close the gap. I really hope that it was this simple all along...


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

You're doing an excellent job of figuring this out on your own! And you're right. There does come a point of being too close, which in your case seems to be about 18 inches right now...and the trick is to slowly close that gap over time.

Whether you know it or not, the approach you're following is called desensitization and counterconditioning. I posted a link to a helpful article explaining this approach on another thread, but I'll post it again here (see below). As you will see, the article also speaks of finding the point at which the cat (or dog) starts to experience discomfort and gradually reducing that distance. 

One other thing you might try (when Lala is in her room and Bella is with you) is to take something with Lala's scent and put it close to Bella, so that she gets accustomed to having Lala's scent close by, without having to deal with Lala herself. You might also try giving her treats when you do that, to reinforce Lala's scent with good things happening. 

The link is below. I wish you continued good luck...and may I say you are a very patient person! 

ASPCA - Virtual Pet Behaviorist - Desensitization and Counterconditioning


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## grifter102 (Dec 5, 2010)

I've never thought of myself as patient... I guess this is all testing that.

The desensitization/counterconditioning is very difficult... since Bella is still fairly erratic. Every morning when i wake up, Bella is always incredibly affectionate and constantly purring. I get up, take care of my morning routine, and head over to Lala's room. Bella's usually in her box at this point, Lala's right on the other side of the door making her little beeps to get me to come in (which has also become her nickname... beeps). Now, some days, I'll pet Bella and she'll continue to purr, even with the beeps in the background. Other days, she'll be purring _until_ she hears beeps, then she'll growl... maybe even try to claw at me... maybe even get up and run away. Other days, she'll just be growling from the beginning, regardless if Lala's making any noise at all.

Once I open the door, the first thing I do after feeding Lala is to give Bella one of the RR Pill Pocket treats. I'll play with Lala a bit while she's chewing that down, then she gets back into her box. I'll toss her a couple of treats... sometimes she'll sit in her box and ignore the treats on the floor. Other times she'll get right out and eat them. If Lala comes up to the gate, sometimes she'll just sit, sometimes she growls, sometimes (if she jumped into the box and moved it too close) she'll hiss and swat. If I come out to pet her, sometimes she's calm, sometimes she growls, sometimes she tries to swat at me and runs away.

Every time I think I have it figured out, something different happens. The 18in is a minimum... sometimes it's 2-3ft.

This morning she was fine before I opened the door, fine when she ate her treat... but then jumped into the box and slid it close to the door, then she growled and ran away. I gave her some treats to get her to come closer again... but she stayed in the kitchen. I went over to her, gave her a treat and tried to pet her, she ignored the treat, swatted at my hand, then she went _back_ to Lala's room and jumped into her box. I picked up the treat, brought it over to her and gave it to her... she ate it, growled at me then immediately jumped out and went into the bedroom to sleep.

I have a home-visit vet coming today... maybe there's something wrong with her and it's causing her some pain... so that's making her behave erratically. It's all maddening... I never know what's going to happen next... if she's going to be perfectly fine and come up to the gate looking for a treat, even if Lala is almost right there... or if she's going to be 20ft away in the kitchen (where she should be completely calm) growling and try to swat at me if I pet her.

I hope the vet can tell me more.


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

I too home the vet can shed some insight. That said, it's now been about 3.5 months since you put Bella and Lala together, and about 2.5 months since Lala was spayed...so, it's likely time to consider your options, of which you really have four:

a) Continue to do what you're doing, recognizing that progress will only come in baby steps and, at times, you will go backwards. 

b) Let them be together more (assuming you're home). Ignore the hissing and growling, and see if they can work a peace out betwen them. Separate them only if things look like they're about to truly get nasty and/or when you're out/sleeping.

c) Involve a professional behaviorist who can observe their behavior first hand and potentially give you greater guidance.

d) Consider re-homing one of the cats.

Although my outlining these options might have an air of "finality" to it, I don't mean it in that sense. It's just that it's likely time to either commit to your current course or consider other options. You might want to discuss these options with your vet also, to see if he/she has a view. 

Given the length of time you've been at this, I'd be tempted to move to (b) at this point...because Bella might just need that "extra push". That said, you're the one who sees the cats on a daily basis and, therefore, you're the one in the best position to assess which of the options is likely to have the greatest success. Regardless, I'd certainly opt for (b) or (c) before I'd ever consider (d).

I have to run right now, but later today I'll be back to tell you the story of what finally got my two girls "over the hump"...although that's not to say what I finally ended up doing will work for you.

Good luck today. I hope the vet is able to shed some greater insight. Keep us posted.


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## grifter102 (Dec 5, 2010)

The vet definitely gave me some insight. I've obviously personalized the cats way too much... and while it makes me care for both of them deeply, it also causes hesitation whenever I believe something may hurt them.

I was trying to get the bathroom all set up for Bella to receive her exam and shot. The vet was supposed to come at 10, he showed up early at 9:30 before I had Bella confined at all. He told me to just grab her and bring her out so he could give her the rabies shot. I tried to coax her out from behind the TV... he repeated, "Just grab her". I thought to myself... how could he possibly know Bella? She'll eat both my hands if I try that... I need to keep her calm. She ended up going out up on the radiator on her own. He told me to hold her down... again... I didn't want my hands to end up like shredded curtains... so I hesitated. At this point he just grabbed her by the scruff, hard, and gave her the shot... then he _picked her up by the scruff only_ and set her down on the floor. She looked around, then went back behind the TV. I was incredulous.

I've tried scruffing her before, but it always seemed like it would hurt her, since she's like 15 lbs, most of that is in her rear. She was pissed, but didn't seem hurt one little bit. In fact, she came right out afterward and was perfectly fine. He then told me that she's a tortoiseshell calico cat, and whenever there's a grumpy, ornery cat who's anti-social... 99% of the time it's a calico/tortoise. I checked around online a bit and she's technically a tortoise mackerel tabby. He then said that if it's been 3 months, they just need to work things out on their own. I'm just going to let Lala out, let the little chases and fights happen, and only separate them when they get really ugly. I always have the dustmop to separate them.

After all the scruffing and shots, Bella went right back to her box, I pet her and she started purring. I think I just need to be more forceful in general... scruff Bella when she claws at me. And Bella also seems to be figuring out how to lose Lala in a chase... just jump on her radiator. At this point I don't think they'll ever be friends... but if lala can figure out that Bella just wants her to leave her alone and Bella figures out that she can get away from Lala without much difficulty... then we should be okay. Relatively speaking.


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

Well, in my prior post, I recommended option (b) – let them work out a peace between themselves – and it seems your vet and I (and you it would seem) have come to the same conclusion. I think there does come a time when you just have to just step back and let the cats work things out for themselves. And, after reading your post of earlier this morning, it struck me you are now at that point, which is why I proposed option (b). If you wait for everything to be perfect, you’ll wait forever. I wouldn’t normally recommend letting two cats “work it out themselves” if the two cats in question were literally at each other’s throats and engaged in nasty cat fights…but that’s not the case for Bella and Lala. Bella has come a long way in the past few months, and that should help to allow her to find her own way to make peace with Lala. 

I earlier promised you my story of my girls. When I first put Muffs and Abby together for open play sessions (sessions where they were no longer separated by baby gates), I always supervised them closely. In fact, I didn’t even so much as go to the washroom without locking one of them up first. About 3 weeks after they had been out together (always closely supervised), I was faced with a problem. A deadline on one of my client files was moved up unexpectedly. I was informed of the revised deadline at around 10pm on a Wednesday night…and I needed to prepare a report to be filed with the court by first thing Friday morning. The only way to get the report prepared in time was for me to work from Wednesday night through to Friday morning, essentially non-stop. I was working from home, since I didn’t have time to commute to the office or deal with all of the interruptions that always arise when I’m there. 

I decided I would leave Abby locked in her safe room, so I could get some work done. But, Abby had other ideas. She knew I was at home and she wanted out. She cried and cried and cried…which did nothing for my ability to concentrate on my report. For better or for worse, I reached my breaking point at about 7:30 am Thursday morning, after pulling my first all-nighter.

I let Abby out of the dining room, and I said to her and Muffs, “Go play…and be good girls”. I think I added under my breath, “Kill each other, if you must. I really don’t have the time to deal with your shenanigans right now”! :? I then went back to work. I decided that unless I heard the beginnings of World War III, I wasn’t getting up. Off they went. They were totally unsupervised, although I kept an ear out for them. And I checked on them every few hours or so to make sure both were breathing! My report was finally finished at 5:00 am on Friday morning, and I went to look for the girls. I found them cuddled up together, sleeping on the living room rug. That was the end of our integration program! Thereafter, they were fine together. 

In short, there does come a time when you just have to let go, and let them work it out for themselves. I’m not saying that Bella and Lala will end up sleeping and cuddling together (although wouldn’t that be nice!), but let’s hope they’re able to find their way to peace in the near future.

So, I’m with you. Given Bella’s recent back-sliding, you now need to lay the law down and only interfere if things get truly ugly. I hope both she and Lala get the message and start obeying the new law! Keep us posted.


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## grifter102 (Dec 5, 2010)

Another update:

After letting them out with each other several times and having horrible results each and every one... I booked an appointment with a behaviorist. She told me that everything just moved too quickly, and they never got a chance to have a calm introduction... so I've been starting over from scratch. I'm going to separate them for 2 weeks (it's the 4th day of total separation, no visual or olfactory contact) while brushing both of them to develop the same scent... then move into the counter-conditioning viewing sessions with food. The last few days of separation have made Bella much more like her old self... even though she's not used to being in my room for extended periods of time, it makes her much more friendly and playful when she gets to come out. I've been splitting up their time in the main area of the house as close to 50-50 as I can manage, so they hopefully will figure out that neither of them owns the house anymore - they have to share.

I probably should have done this in the beginning... but the price then just seemed too expensive. Now that I've spent 4 months with no real progress... the price looked like a bargain. I'm also headed to the vet to put Bella on some anti-anxiety medication... since the behaviorist thinks that her somewhat rough past (picked on by 300lb guys) and prior rough play sessions mean that she'll always want to keep Lala at arm's length and never let her close. Couple that with Lala's unyielding desire to be right next to Bella... and it's not a great mix.

She seemed optimistic, saying that she didn't hear anything from me that made her think a slow, extremely controlled introduction process wouldn't work. It's at least another 3 weeks... but compared to the past 4 months... I'm willing to give it a shot.


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

Good move...especially if letting them be together was leading to horrible results, since that can't continue too long before back-sliding is bound to happen. I tried for a month to get my girls together before hiring a behaviorist. I actually didn't view the cost as particularly high. Perhaps that's because behaviorists cost less in Canada, or perhaps it's because other vet treatments cost more. As a comparative, my behaviorist cost about $300, whereas it cost almost $1,000 to have Abby spayed and microchipped (including all bloodwork, etc.). So, the behaviorist seemed like a bargain!

No doubt Bella's past, combined with her age, have contributed to her negative reactions. That was not something I had to worry about, since my girls were only 14 weeks and 5 months when I hired the behaviorist, so they were both young and didn't have much of a past. 

I'm pleased to hear your behaviorist is optimistic. Mine gave me only a 50/50 chance of success. Interestingly, he told me that Muffs' negative reaction and fear could be due to one of two things: (1) her past and whether she had been mistreated before I adopted her, or (2) her personality. I said I seriously doubted she had been mistreated, although she likely wasn't really well socialized in her early weeks...so, we chalked it up to her personality. He also said that cats with a negative past tend to react better or more easily than those who simply are fearful by nature, which is why he only gave Muffs and Abby a 50/50 chance of success. Perhaps his comments bode well for you, since Bella's problems likely relate to her past more than her inate nature.

In any event, I wish you luck. You have been very patient with the girls... so, you really deserve a break and deserve for this to work! Keep us posted.


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