# Commercial Food vs. Commercial Food



## KittenCatcher (Jun 13, 2005)

"He also thinks that I am doing the wrong thing by feeding them any of 'those weird holisitc foods' rather than Science Diet Weight Loss."

This came from another thread, and I didn't want to hijack that thread.

Why vets tout Science Diet as good diets is WAAAAAAY beyond my comprehension! Take a look at their ingredient lists: ugh! "By-products" have no real food value, they are just cheap waste consisting of things like beaks, feet, combs, cancerous lumps, misc. guts, etc. Their next ingredient is usually grain, another cheap filler of low nutritional value, and cats and dogs both are frequently allergic to corn, wheat, brewer's yeast, etc. (Got frequent diarrhea, gas, poor coat, or itching w/o fleas?)

My vet is conventional/holistic, and actually THINKS for himself. You are familiar with urinary infections and bladder blockages in cats? Well, he told me that grain-based diets produce alkaline urine, which encourages bladder problems of all kinds, including infections and crystals. Meat-based diets, however, produce acid urine, which helps prevent bladder problems.

START READING INGREDIENT LABELS if you use commercial diets. And if you have the inclination, consider natural raw diets (this takes some study and some work to get it right).

If you want a real eye-opener, compare the ingredient lists of different foods. Most of the cheaper and some of the not-so-cheap foods (incl Science Diet) have really poor contents, and look more like chicken feed labels than cat food labels. Most of the common cheap stuff is grain (corn, wheat) plus by-products of some animal. 

Want to really gag? Look up the term "animal digest"! We are way beyond any kind of nutrition with this stuff!

Most of Purina (one exception is Purina One), Friskies, Meow Mix, etc = grain. Chicken feed.

Compare with the ingredient list of Solid Gold, Felidae, etc. 

Anyway, read your labels and spend less on vet bills.

Sue


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## roseeden (May 18, 2005)

I feed science diets to my cats because after all those promotions and coupons I can get them cheaper than grocery store foods.

I tried some all-meat foods (Innova, Wellness, even Totally Ferrets), my feeling is that my cats threw up and did very poorly on them. My Sunshine also developed a heart murmur even though I don't know if it is diet-related. I don't think it works on my cats.

I hate Science Diet weight loss (I hate all kinds of weight loss foods in general, and I prefer making my cats exercise instead). I know for some people a weight loss food is inevitable because they are too busy to make the cats exercise........but exercise is MUCH better than dieting.

Animal digest is the digestion of animal tissues with acids. It sounds disgusting but then so does the natural process of digestion.


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## icklemiss21 (Aug 29, 2004)

That being the reason I left that vet shortly after he said that to me... I also don't like people telling me that my ideas are nonsense and we have had arguments over other things too.

Vets tout Science Diet because they get paid to. In vetinary school, a lot of the teaching on nutrition is done by a vetinary expert from... you guessed it... a special guest lecturer from Hills Science Diet!

And to be honest - if i was going to feed a weight loss food at all - I would use something like Purina and not spend so much for low quality food. But what really got me mad with the vet that day (to the extent that I literally stuffed poor bumps into his cage and slammed the door on my way out and threw the money for the visit at the vet) was that my BF listening to the vet and feeding him SD was what got him fat to begin with!


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## moggiegirl (May 15, 2005)

I don't believe that all by-products consist of beaks, feet, combs and cancerous lumps but I do agree that the veterinary community in general is backwards in their reccommendations. I don't like Hill's Pet Nutrition and I feel it's wrong that many people who have pets with medical conditions are forced to feed a Hill's Prescription Diet. After all, if your pet is sick and you feed a regular cat food instead of the prescription diet prescribed by your vet, you can be easily accused of not taking proper care of your pet, or worse, animal neglect or abuse, which kind of give veterinarians dictatorship when the reality is that we don't believe their reccommendations are the best for our pets.

My cat Spotty is diagnosed with inflammatory bowel disease and I have decided to switch him from the Eukanuba low residue diet to the IVD rabbit and pea diet. But if the Rabbit and Pea diet didn't exist I would be forced to either stay with the Eukanuba low residue or feed a Hill's diet because my vet does not approve of any non-prescription diet and frankly that angers me, the idea of a so called authority figure telling you, you have to feed this, that you don't have choices, or that you're a bad pet owner if you don't feed what the vet tells you to. 

Thank God for the IVD Rabbit and Pea diet, That's one prescription diet I actually like. Yes the canned version does contain rabbit by-products but I know a cat named Leo who regularly catches canyon rabbits and eats the entire carcasses of them, leaving nothing left but the cotton tail. This Leo kitty is a free roaming cat in my grandparents neighborhood with 2 homes, uses my grandparents house as a guest house and has a very strong hunting instinct. 

We need to take control. The reason Hill's Pet Nutrition is so powerful is because they have too many supporters. Stop supporting them and demand better quality prescription diets. Consumers have power but it takes more than a few consumers to change things. One thing I do agree, it is chicken feed. I used to feed the Hill's t/d a dental diet pushed and sold by vets. It's basically a bunch of corn meal croutons in a bag and they're really yellow. In the past I went for it because it is good for their teeth. But it's not a high quality cat food and I'm suspecting that maybe that's what caused Spotty's inflammatory bowel disease. I trusted the vets because they firmly believe the Hill's foods are the vets.


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## micp879 (Mar 22, 2005)

A few things......

1) I know of absolutely no links to heart murmers and diet, especially a high quality diet like Innova. Id be more apt to buy that kind of logic if you said it was a crappy food like Fancy Feast or some Science Diet BHA formulas, and even then I would be shocked. Do some research on the internet, there are tons of articles on heart murmers. It is typically genetic or the result of past cardiac injury

2) By Products may not always be diseased tissue and undesireable body parts, but the fact of the matter is, sometimes they are. And there is nothing that governs the quality of by products, so you are much more likely to get undesireable food in by products than you would in a named meat or named meal. Some companies obviously will keep higher standards regarding their by products, but even then you are at the mercy of what they tell you. Large companies, many of which own pet food companies, are driven by the almighty dollar. Which means cheapest alternative is often the way they go, and the public will never know. That being said, if someone does choose to feed a food containing by products, at least buy a food that the by products is not the primary protien source. In other words, find a food where chicken meal is maybe the first protien source, supplemented by chicken by products. If someone advocates by products because "cats eat the whole animal", they have to realize the meat the cat eats is the primary protien, and the left over by products sometimes get eaten as well. Some by products may serve a purpose such as calcium, but many by products dont. So at least get a food where a named meat IS the primary protien. Its like the severely flawed logic where someone claims grains are ok because cats eat the grain contents of their prey's stomach. They are eating the meat of an animal, and if there happens to be grain in the stomach when they eat it, so be it. They dont break open the animal, eat the grain immediately, then maybe eat some meat if they are still hungry. Some logic just makes me roll my eyes.


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## Sol (Feb 20, 2003)

I choose non commercial food. I raw feed my cats and that gives me full control over what they eat, just like I want it. Perhaps "holistic/natural" commercial foods are better in the sense that they don't contain synthetic antioxidants, preservatives and such, but aside from that... no big difference. At least not in Sweden. I believe Hill's manufacture a special line of food (named the same as in the US though, but different ingredients) for the European market since many of the European countries have more strict regulations of what catfood is allowed to contain and not.


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## Gudewife (Jun 27, 2004)

I can't really talk, as I've been using canned i/d (and a/d) for a few weeks and am just now in the process of transitioning back to a normal diet...but at the time, I needed to temporarily move to a bland (if suboptimal) food that was more moderate in protein, fat, and carbs to take some of the load off Assumpta's pancreas and help rebuild whatever may have been damaged in her liver. I'm _not_ a careless cat food buyer (I wear my CatForum CatFoodWeenie button with pride), nor do I take my vet's nutritional advice as gospel...however, we discussed other prescription and commercial foods, and none of them was going to do what we needed to do (though we also looked at Purina EN, I think), and it was a compromise that we made for a few weeks...which is what precription diets should be, IMO. 

I'm still left with some future concerns, though...I may have to make some more permanent dietary changes (and not only is Assumpta now a poor candidate for raw feeding, she loathes raw meat, so THAT'S out), and I've not yet been able to find a more moderate canned diet with ingredients I really like...once you look at a "moderate" diet, you're suddenly into hairball/lite/senior foods, none of which I really want to feed. If I do need to make permanent changes, it's likely that I'll cook homemade, just because I can't find an acceptable canned alternative. My vet is totally behind that idea, as well...we busted our calculators looking for something we liked, and just didn't find much out there that passed both of our tests.

My honest opinion is that pet food companies are in business to make money. If they don't, then they won't stay in business. To that end, I think that they tell pet owners exactly what they want to hear, and make everything sound as appealing as possible. Just go listen to a Hill's or Eukanuba field rep tell you about how corn is actually good for cats...I'm sure that Old Mother Hubbard and Natura also have great sales spiels. It's a business, and their job is to make you want to buy their food, and they'll say what they have to say to move their food. Just like human food companies, actually. Do I think they lie? Heck, yes...some probably lie more than others, but I'm pretty sure that a _completely_ honest food manufacturer wouldn't stay in business long. You picks your devils when it comes to manufactured food, for animals or humans. 

I think that vets are starting to come around (some faster than others), and I don't know many vets now who only sell Hill's, or Purina, or Waltham, or whatever; most work with several prescription foods and recommend various commercial foods for healthy patients (not just SciDiet). Many are moving away from pushing an all-dry diet, as well. I know one vet's office that is selling Hill's out front, but feeding Wellness to recuperating patients out back. The changes start in the back wards and move out front slowly. Consumer choise is how we ended up with Meow Mix, 9 Lives, and Tender Vittles...what's more needed is proper pet nutrition taught to vets and techs by uninterested teachers, using a broad base of reference. Until that happens, nothing much is going to change.

(I'm actually dreading taking animal nutrition class almost as much as the cat dissection)


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## micp879 (Mar 22, 2005)

Gudewife, 
Well said. A big point that I was trying to make, but didnt do very well, was that cat food companies, at least those owned by bigger corporations, can not be taken for the word when it comes to products in their food. Of course they are going to tell you what you want to hear, that their by products are of the best quality and are better for the animal than named meat or meal. Its all about selling their food. It is impossible for the public to know what is in their by products, so it is up to the company to hold to strict standards. In todays world, those standards often arent held. That is why I tend to support smaller, specialized companies like Natura. They are in the pet food business, thats it! They are companies that often love pets, and their one goal is to make healthier pet food. They are not a big company with a pet food division under a different name, where they just grind up leftovers from their other divisions and call it cat food. That is why, for the rest of my life, I will absolutely refuse to feed such food as Iams or the grocery store brands.


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## jennifer2 (Mar 5, 2005)

My philosophy is to buy the best you can afford.
Not everyone can afford EVO, I do buy it because in the long run it's cheaper than canned food and my cats like DRY, with 1 diabetic cat normal dry foods are WAY too high in carbs. FWIW, both my cats and my dogs eat better than me :roll: 
Some can only afford Fancy Feast, which isn't all that bad IMO. Sure not the greatest quality of foods, but the carb content is low. So IMO it's better than some more expensive dry foods.
BUT, not everyone can afford to feed the high end foods.
Many cats have lived 18+ years eating Cat's Meow. So, yes the higher quality foods are better, but it isn't a death sentence to feed the cheaper foods.
I can think of things done by many loving cat owners that are much more likely to lead to an early demise of a cat than feeding sub-par foods.

Jennifer


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## KittenCatcher (Jun 13, 2005)

"...I can think of things done by many loving cat owners that are much more likely to lead to an early demise of a cat than feeding sub-par foods. "

Probably true to some extent, but my vet said that he is coming to realize how many physical problems are being traced back to diet, that there is more info to that effect coming in every day.

You do the best you can. That's true. But some people only go by what the commercials tell them, and don't do any thinking for themselves. Corn is the basic ingredient in most lower-end cat (& dog) foods. That is a fact. The protein of corn ranges between 2% & 4%. Cats and dogs are meat eaters, having high protein requirements. If you can't even feed a reasonably-priced, meat-based diet like Purina One, how can you pay a minimum of $300 if your cat comes down with a life-threatening blocked bladder???

I have a friend who does cat rescue. She has some "leftover" cats that are not adoptable, so she kept them. She feeds a higher-quality, meat-based diet and has done so for years. She has NEVER had a case of blocked bladder, EVER. She doesn't have a high turnover in her cats because they live into their 20s.

I was told that the first four ingredients in the list are the most important. It has been recognized that food mfgrs have to cut corners to make a salable product. The higher-quality food makers use animal meat or meal as the main ingredients, and cut corners on the stuff that is lower on the list.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who won't even spay or neuter their cats when they can get help in doing it. I doubt these people have ever read an ingredient list. And there are so many of them that the El Cheapo cat foods will continue to be good sellers for a long time to come.

Sue


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## Gudewife (Jun 27, 2004)

micp879,

To be honest, I'm quite sure that all food manufacturers lie to some extent. If they didn't, they'd be selling " can o' dead poultry parts with some other stuff, processed with high heat and fortified with vitamins, and oh yeah, a few rat doots as allowed by federal food-processing guidelines." But instead it's called "Chicken Dinner Platter Buffet Stew" or something similar...total honesty doesn't sell, no matter what business you're in.

And sure, worse things happen to cats than cheap food...the starving stray we had come in after being doused with kerosene by teenagers was pretty thrilled when he realised he could have all the food he wanted, even if it was cheap. We all do the best we can based on what we know and with the tools and resources we have available to us. I know people who have taken home many more unadoptable cats than I'll ever own, love and snuggle those three-legged, half-wild, confirmed-biter, refuses-to-use-the-litterbox cats, have them vetted religiously, and feed them Special Kitty. I'd still rather see cats in loving homes eating cheap food than sitting in the shelter eating cheap food, KWIM?


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## moggiegirl (May 15, 2005)

This is a terrific, wonderfully educational forum. I'm learning a lot. It makes sense that by-products should have their place, not being the main ingredient in a diet, the actual meat should be primary. I agree that cats in loving homes eating cheap food are better off than cats in shelters eating cheap food and if I was feeding ferals I wouldn't buy the best because it would cost too much. Some people have 5 cats or more and perhaps they save money on food so they'll have some left over for veterinary care. But I would not want to have more cats than I can afford to take care of. I choose to only have 2 cats at a time, and not long ago I had a $2,000.00 vet bill for one of my cats. It can really creep up on you. 

I wish my upstairs neighbor would feed her cats something better than Crave or Deli Cat. She has 4 cats. But it's really none of my business.


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## roseeden (May 18, 2005)

micp879 said:


> A few things......
> 
> 1) I know of absolutely no links to heart murmers and diet, especially a high quality diet like Innova. Id be more apt to buy that kind of logic if you said it was a crappy food like Fancy Feast or some Science Diet BHA formulas, and even then I would be shocked. Do some research on the internet, there are tons of articles on heart murmers. It is typically genetic or the result of past cardiac injury


I had read in several vet journals that taurine would help immensely in heart murmurs.....so I guess the quality of taurine is very important.


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## roseeden (May 18, 2005)

moggiegirl said:


> I wish my upstairs neighbor would feed her cats something better than Crave or Deli Cat. She has 4 cats. But it's really none of my business.


If you ever see any of her cats, you can always give them healthy food....I don't see why not.


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## moggiegirl (May 15, 2005)

I have done that before, when I had cat food left over that I wasn't going to feed my cats anymore. I once had a bag of Eukanuba Lamb and Rice that I decided would be too high in calories for Rosie so I gave it to my neighbor. She said, "Oh I'll take it." However I feel I would be interfering too much if I went out of my way to buy her better quality cat food. I have to mind my own business but I know if I have leftover cat food of any kind that I'm not going to use anymore she happily accepts it. She's probably on a very tight budget and isn't too picky about what her cats eat and doesn't mind free cat food. Maybe around christmas time I'll send her a neighborly card with a bag of cat food but I don't want to to be too obvious about it.


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## spamlet (Mar 14, 2005)

> If you ever see any of her cats, you can always give them healthy food....I don't see why not.


shengmei, I beleive that this is the worst possible thing to do. It has nothing to do with moggiegirl what her neighbour feeds her cats, and if she interfers and begins feeding them, then they may begin to reject the food their owners are feeding them. What then if the owner can't afford 'something better'? There is no way you should nosy around in the way other people treat their pets unless you have reason to believe they may be being mistreated. 



> But it's really none of my business.


It sure isn't moggiegirl, and I'm glad you realise that it may be due to financial hardship but please don't feed someone else's cats. 

This whole 'healthy' food vs 'bad' food buisness is fine when it's your own cats, but you should NEVER enforce it onto someone else's animal. :evil: :evil: :evil:


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## Gudewife (Jun 27, 2004)

Moggiegirl...try buying her a holiday gift certificate to a pet-supply store that only sells high-quality food...not too obvious because she can make her own choices (and those sort of stores are usually pretty swanky, so it comes across as a really nice gift), but it's also cool because you'll know that they only sell high-quality food, so whatever she buys will be fine. You can even mention "Oh yes, I buy my <insert name of good cat food> and it's really good, they have lots of good stuff there."

My neighbours refuse to take money for catsitting, and refuse to take any money for Scamp's medical bills or food (and it's not like any of us are rich), so last year I bought them a big gift card at a pet-supply store that I know sells the kind of dog food they use...'course, I asked them to not put the amount on it, :twisted: so she went shopping thinking she'd pick up a bag of food and maybe some biscuits with it, and when she got to the register, they looked at her and said "Umm...did you want to get anything else? There's a lot of money left on this card." Boy, did I get a lecture when she got home with a whole car full of dog food! :lol: 

(and I'm sure that right now she's online, trying to figure out how much I paid for the three 8x10 enlargements of their dogs' pictures that I gave her as a gift this morning so that she can slide a check under my door while I'm not looking :lol: Same way I've been not billing them for plowing their driveway because they bought tires for our plow truck three years ago...maybe it's a New England thing :wink: )


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## moggiegirl (May 15, 2005)

> But it's really none of my business.





> It sure isn't moggiegirl, and I'm glad you realise that it may be due to financial hardship but please don't feed someone else's cats.
> 
> This whole 'healthy' food vs 'bad' food buisness is fine when it's your own cats, but you should NEVER enforce it onto someone else's animal. :evil: :evil: :evil:


[/quote] 

I have done nothing worse than give away leftover cat food that I was no longer feeding my cats. I'd rather do that than throw cat food in the trash can that someone else can use. I did not criticize her for what she feeds her cats. however I did see the kind of food she feeds her cats, and I do think it's poor quality. But I'm not going to say anything to her about it. If she agrees to take my free leftover food that I'm not going to use and feed it to her cats(she could have said no) then there is nothing evil about it. I just saved her a little money, since she doesn't feed her cats one particular food but a variety of grocery store brands. 

She obviously loves her 5 kitties very much. So I respect her for that.


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## moggiegirl (May 15, 2005)

Actually, she has 4 kitties.


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## roseeden (May 18, 2005)

moggiegirl said:


> I have done that before, when I had cat food left over that I wasn't going to feed my cats anymore. I once had a bag of Eukanuba Lamb and Rice that I decided would be too high in calories for Rosie so I gave it to my neighbor. She said, "Oh I'll take it." However I feel I would be interfering too much if I went out of my way to buy her better quality cat food. I have to mind my own business but I know if I have leftover cat food of any kind that I'm not going to use anymore she happily accepts it. She's probably on a very tight budget and isn't too picky about what her cats eat and doesn't mind free cat food. Maybe around christmas time I'll send her a neighborly card with a bag of cat food but I don't want to to be too obvious about it.


I don't see why you could possibly offend anyone. Moggiegirl you are a very nice person (from what I could gather from your online posts) and if I were the woman, I would happily accept whatever free cat food (and human food, too :lol: ) that I could get.

Lately, due to my financial situations, I had not been very picky at all with anything.

I kind of doubt that feeding the cats better quality food would make them reject their owner's food. From my experience, my own five cats seemed to ALWAYS want to eat the cheapest, most horrible foods possible because they are addicted to junk food (just like I am addicted to McDonalds' chicken McNuggets :lol: )


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## micp879 (Mar 22, 2005)

Shengmei,
Answer this for me. You say there is nothing wrong with feeding someone elses cat healthy cat food. Well you have repeatedly said how you dont like Innova (and how you seem to think Innova caused the heart murmer in your cat), and how you prefer to give your cats things along the lines of fancy feast, etc. That is fine, and that is your perrogative. However, what if you found out that your neighbor had been feeding your cat Innova that they had left over? You wouldnt like it very much, would you? What if their cat has a sensitive stomach, and they only thing they can keep down is a certain food? What if they are on a special diet for medical reasons? Feeding these cats your left over food could cause a problem, couldnt it, no matter how healthy the food was? I am a BIG fan of healthy food, but it is not my, nor anyone elses, right to feed someone elses cat no matter what we think about what they are already eating. Im hoping this doesnt come over too forward, but I just want you to think about it from this point of view.

And one other thing, I will admit that I didnt think about taurine and its heart effect on growing kittens. However, typically the quality and level of taurine is going to be much higher in the Innova than the grocery stuff you were feeding otherwise. If you want to think that food had something to do with it (which it likely didnt), look at the stuff the kitten had been on long term, not Innova which he was only on briefly anyways.


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## roseeden (May 18, 2005)

I think fancy feast canned cat foods (not the new Fancy Feast Gourmet Gold dry foods) actually have 0.20% taurine on a dry matter basis. That is a lot of taurine. My cats had always done very well on fancy feast but I also give them Nutro, Petguard, Wellness, and Wysong.

I have some issues with alfalfa sprouts in Innova food. I had suspected it had something to do with Sunshine suddenly getting lethargic. It is a genetic thing. Some cats have less tolerance for alfalfa sprouts than other cats.

Moggiegirl knows her neighbor intimately. They are very good friends and Moggiegirl had known the woman and her cats well, that is why I am recommending her feeding those kitties on a personal basis. She had repeatedly talked about her neighbor in another cat forum that we both belonged to (actually we both came over to the Cat Forum on the same date :lol: )

I highly doubt that any of my neighbors would be feeding their cats Innova. I had to special order it from a pet bountique shop. It is simply not available here in College Station. It is unavilable over here.... I also have to go out town to get Petguard, Wellness, Wysong, and Triumph. In fact, all of my neighbors feed their cats Special Kitty dry cat food. 

I do love Petguard, Wellness, Wysong, Triumph, and all the other good foods.

I fed all my neighbors' cats when they come over here. My neighbors were very grateful for that because sometimes they forget to feed their kitties.


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## micp879 (Mar 22, 2005)

Shengmei,

_I highly doubt that any of my neighbors would be feeding their cats Innova_

That comments tells me your missing the point. It doesnt matter whether or not your think your neighbors would be feeding it. My question was how would you like it if you found out one of them did feed your cat Innova? Say it was a new neighbor, say it was a relative visiting who brought Innova for their family? Say they got a free sample of Innova and they didnt care for it? You wouldnt like it would you? Its up to an owner to decide what they feed their cat. We may not agree with it, but it is out of line for someone else to feed someones cat without the owners permission. If its an initmate situation where neighbors are good friends and they have no problem with the other person feeding their cat, then thats fine, but to say overall its fine to feed someone elses cat without the owners permission I think is rude and inappropriate. Regarding the taurine, Im glad to hear that Fancy Feast at least has high taurine...being their newer formula still uses by products, unnamed meats, and too much tuna Im glad they at least got the Taurine part right. 

It sounds like diet probably had nothing to do with your cats heart murmer, which was already assumed.


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## roseeden (May 18, 2005)

Yeah....I am very glad about the taurine content too. I give my cats taurine supplements and I am always amazed at how many premium foods only have 0.100% taurine. In Pam Bartlett's (if I spelled her name right) Best Selling Book "Think Like a Cat" she said that she prefers giving her cats foods that have at least 0.18% taurine. I just went back and re-calculated the taurine content in Fancy Feast canned cat foods on a dry matter basis and according to my calculations (hey I am not good at math :lol: ) Fancy Feast has 0.227273% taurine.

It is so difficult to find out about taurine content though!!! I wish AAFCO would start mandating companies to put their taurine levels on the bag.


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## spamlet (Mar 14, 2005)

> I have done nothing worse than give away leftover cat food that I was no longer feeding my cats. I'd rather do that than throw cat food in the trash can that someone else can use. I did not criticize her for what she feeds her cats. however I did see the kind of food she feeds her cats, and I do think it's poor quality. But I'm not going to say anything to her about it. If she agrees to take my free leftover food that I'm not going to use and feed it to her cats(she could have said no) then there is nothing evil about it. I just saved her a little money, since she doesn't feed her cats one particular food but a variety of grocery store brands.


Moggiegirl, my rant wasn't aimed so much at you as it was at Shengmei, and I think I made that quite clear. I'm sorry if I didn't. 

Shengmei, for all the reasons micp879 has noted, you can't just say there is no reason why you shouldn't feed other cats. My mums cat used to be on a special diet, but a neighbour was feeding it down the road, and so Candy would never come home for his tea; which included his medicine. My mum had already asked the woman once to stop, but she refused and my mum had to resort to locking Candy up and making him an indoor only pet. So because this rude woman would not stop feeding Candy on my mum's request, my mum lost all control over how she wanted to raise her pet. Not a position that you would like to be in shengmei, I'm sure. 

My Spandex just came home this morning licking her lips, so I'm pretty sure someone else is feeding her. So now she won't eat the food I've put out which cost me alot of money, and it will have to go to waste: just because someone else didn't want to waste some of their left over food. :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: God it makes me mad.


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## spacemonkey (Aug 12, 2004)

spamlet said:


> My Spandex just came home this morning licking her lips, so I'm pretty sure someone else is feeding her. So now she won't eat the food I've put out which cost me alot of money, and it will have to go to waste: just because someone else didn't want to waste some of their left over food. :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: God it makes me mad.


Whoa, whoa, whoa...

You know, a lot of people will feed a roaming cat just because they think they're being nice, or doing the cat a favor. It's not uncommon, some people just have big hearts. There was an elderly lady on our street that used to do that :roll: 

You can consider adding "don't feed me" to your cat's tag. Just realize that people may not have malicious intent when they feed your kitty. It could be some old lady who likes to feed all the little kitties in the neighborhood :wink:


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## spamlet (Mar 14, 2005)

> Whoa, whoa, whoa...
> 
> You know, a lot of people will feed a roaming cat just because they think they're being nice, or doing the cat a favor. It's not uncommon, some people just have big hearts. There was an elderly lady on our street that used to do that Rolling Eyes
> 
> You can consider adding "don't feed me" to your cat's tag. Just realize that people may not have malicious intent when they feed your kitty. It could be some old lady who likes to feed all the little kitties in the neighborhood Wink


Oh come on! It's quite obvious that a cat with a collar and name tag around their neck, whose fur is glossy and whose belly is slightly large, is not in need of any dietery help! I would say that this is due to the desire to be loved and needed rather than a big heart :wink: Seriously though, I semi-understand this when the person is not a cat owner and realise that it's not malicious; but I what I object to is a cat owner suggesting that feeding a cat what they consider to be 'healthy' food, is ok. It's not.


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## icklemiss21 (Aug 29, 2004)

But what if they are not feeding that particular cat?

I used to feed two ferals where I last lived and was constantly chasing away my neighbours cat from eating it.

I would be so mad if Bumper was fed elsewhere... he has a very sensitive stomach and can not eat alot of foods... now that I have found that Innova EVO is a great food for him, thats what I am sticking to regardless of the price. 

If he was to be fed something else and came home sick - I would not be impressed!

But that is just one of the many reasons why my cats are not allowed outside.

I had a neighbour who used to leave leftover meat from dinner in a dish for the strays and ferals, who is to say that a well loved healthy cat wouldn't eat that?


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## spamlet (Mar 14, 2005)

I understand icklemiss, but you're misssing my point. I am aware that since I choose for my cats to be outdoor cats then from time to time they will eat things that either they shouldn't or I don't want them too. My point is that Shengmei has said that she doesn't see what is wrong in feeding other people's cats if they believe that what the owner is feeding them is 'unhealthy' food. It is not up to anyone but the owner to decide what they want to feed their cat, and you cannot interfer just because you disagree.


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## icklemiss21 (Aug 29, 2004)

I completely agree... my point was more to Shengmei... I may have to feed my cat cat chow if it was what suited him because of his sensitive tummy (luckily its a good food that does suit him)... and if someone was to tell me to feed him a better food... well you can imagine.

One of the other foods we did have luck with Bumper was a pretty low quality food... and if I did not have the money to feed him EVO that is what he would get for food... because I am more concerned about his health that what people think of me or having a few better ingredients.

To me - feeding him a lesser food and him not being sick is way better than force feeding him wysong and watching him throw up all night and not get any of the nutrients from the food.

Luckily, I can afford to feed the EVO that he does well on, so its not an issue... but I can remember a time when I thought about leaving this forum because alot of people were ranting at me that I should be feeding him wet food to help him lose weight... and when i explained the fact that he has problems with foods, I was told he is just picky and I should give him that and nothing else and he will learn to eat it with no problems. 

I didn't like it then, and if I was Shengmei's neighbour, I wouldn't like her for saying something like that to me. Most people do have the best interests of their animal in mind. It may be that she can not afford to feed anything better in which case its better that an animal is loved and has a lesser food and the owner has $$ to buy food all the time and the cat is not going hungry or soemthing, or that a lesser food is being fed because of a dietary reason.

And I didn't mean anything in the outdoor cat comment - I just meant that this can happen to healthy cats... Boomer for instance would probably eat garbage if he was allowed! I want to monitor what I feed them, particularly with Bumpers stomach problems so I make sure they never get outside unattended.


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## spamlet (Mar 14, 2005)

oops sorry!!  I was in defense mode! I automatically assumed it was aimed at me! I know you didn't mean anything by the outdoor comment. Sorry icklemiss!


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## icklemiss21 (Aug 29, 2004)

No problem... just realised if you had misunderstood my remarks other people could also and I should clarify.

I guess in starting my comment I was referring to you in that people don't necessarily feed just strays or unhealthy cats... but that its not really these people that make the distinction, but the cats themselves. While feeding the ferals, I know I have also fed healthy well fed cats who are just greedy!


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## moggiegirl (May 15, 2005)

Well, now that I've got the right food for both of my cats I don't have any cat food to get rid of which means I'm not going to be giving my neighbor any more cat food. 

I would like to mention this. If anyone has any desire to feed someone else's cats with permission, Petco has a donation bin for the pets of elderly and disabled people who are unable to go to the store to buy pet food themselves. This is organized by the Helen Woodward animal welfare organization. These pets don't eat one particular brand of pet food but many brands mixed together and a variety of canned foods based on what is donated. You can buy any kind of pet food you want to buy, and you can choose a high quality brand, and after purchasing it, put it in the donation bin at Petco. I'm thinking about buying a bag of Solid Gold Katz N Flocken and donating it. What I like best about this kind of charity is that you know where 100% of your dollars are going, since you donate food instead of money. And you can feed someone else's cats without any objections. And who knows how many people are donating Friskies instead of Katzen Flocken or Natural Balance. In this way you can make a difference.


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## roseeden (May 18, 2005)

spamlet said:


> Shengmei, for all the reasons micp879 has noted, you can't just say there is no reason why you shouldn't feed other cats. My mums cat used to be on a special diet, but a neighbour was feeding it down the road, and so Candy would never come home for his tea; which included his medicine. My mum had already asked the woman once to stop, but she refused and my mum had to resort to locking Candy up and making him an indoor only pet. So because this rude woman would not stop feeding Candy on my mum's request, my mum lost all control over how she wanted to raise her pet. Not a position that you would like to be in shengmei, I'm sure.


I think in England and Canada, there are different situations than say in a rural U.S. college town. I had a neighbor who fed his cats grass because she saw cats eating grass all the time. Of course, she was just a girl so I could not be mad at her. I think that free-roaming cats are usually well-loved and healthy in England and Canada, but here in America I sometimes wonder if they are "out of sight, out of mind". It is difficult for me to think they feed their cats premium foods when one of the cats had a dislocated hip for the last three months.

None of my neighbors' cats have collars, so I guess I am just feeding whoever is meowing at my door, ferals or not.

Somebody :evil: changed his cat's blue collar to a string. I presumed that is because the cat's collar got lost or something. I never saw the cat myself but my neighbor told me that I should do something about it because cats seem to gravitate toward me. Before I could do anything the cat got tangled up in the bushes and choked by the string.

One of the houses that was just vacated used to have lots of outdoor cats hanging outside sunbathing on its front yard. Lately, I had seen those cats coming to my apartment, begginf for food. I am not sure if the owner is going to come back for those cats or not but I think feeeding them is a right thing to do.

Of course, I would NEVER feed any cat that is on a special/perscription diet. But with all the cats in the neighborrhood being gray/black and collarless, it is hard to distinguish between them.

QUOTE MOGGIEGIRL,

I have found out that there are cultural differences about this indoor/outdoor debate. the American Cat Fanciers Association strongly supports keeping cats indoors. Europeans believe in letting cats roam. I have collected a bunch of cat care books. I've noticed that the books that support letting cats outside are written by british authors and the ones that support keeping them inside are written by U.S. citizens. Recognize this cultural difference


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## icklemiss21 (Aug 29, 2004)

> I think in England and Canada, there are different situations than say in a rural U.S. college town. I think that free-roaming cats are usually well-loved and healthy in England and Canada, but here in America I sometimes wonder if they are "out of sight, out of mind".


First of all, I have spent time in the US, Canada and UK and I very highly doubt extreme differences... there are small rural college towns in Canada and the UK too! I might agree to some extent that free roaming cats may be well cared for in the UK where it is the norm to have outdoor/indoor cats, but Canada is quite different, very few people I know here let their cats out!

To say that outdoor cats are _"out of sight, out of mind"_, if you ask me is an insult to people on this board who love their cats but do let them out... its unfair to generalise that much.



> None of my neighbors' cats have collars, so I guess I am just feeding whoever is meowing at my door, ferals or not. .... Of course, I would NEVER feed any cat that is on a special/perscription diet. But with all the cats in the neighborrhood being gray/black and collarless, it is hard to distinguish between them.


So how do you know if you are feeding someone with a special diet? You could be feeding a cat that has special dietary needs and by doing this you could be making that cat sick... this is the point everyone is trying to make on not pushing a brand onto a friend/neighbour/whoever, because you never know all the circumstances and reasons.

If you think cats are abandoned, you should bring them to a no kill shelter, if their owner is around, they will claim them, you posted not so long ago about not having the money to feed your own cats the way you wish so it would probably be in the best interests of all the cats for you NOT to feed them. if they are are ferals however, rather than homeless cats, its a different story, but I personally don't waste my money feeding ferals Evo... they get whatever is on sale!


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## roseeden (May 18, 2005)

icklemiss21 said:


> To say that outdoor cats are _"out of sight, out of mind"_, if you ask me is an insult to people on this board who love their cats but do let them out... its unfair to generalise that much.


I am very sorry. I did not mean that all outdoor cats are "out of sight, out of mind". I just say that my neighbors' cats are out of sight, out of mind. I don't think any of my neighbors' cats are on a special diet because I live in a extremely low-income neighborhood where most people earn $20,000 or less. They are always bothering me about why I don't save money for retirement and spend money on my cats instead.

This is a forum for cat-lovers. I highly doubt that anybody I know would come to this forum. People who come to this forum already had proven their love to their feline companions. I also doubt there is anybody on this cat forum who does not even let the cats indoors. I am not talking about indoor/outdoor cats. I am talking about cats that are kept strictly outdoors since they were 8 weeks old. It breaks my heart to see little kittens being left outside in the rain. I always feel if somebody wants to have indoor/outdoor cats they should at least have waited until the kittens are at least 4 months old.

The only no-kill shelter I know has a $100 surrender fee per cat and is two hours away from here. I don't own a car. I am still wondering if the owner of those cats would return and claim them.


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## roseeden (May 18, 2005)

shengmei said:


> icklemiss21 said:
> 
> 
> > To say that outdoor cats are _"out of sight, out of mind"_, if you ask me is an insult to people on this board who love their cats but do let them out... its unfair to generalise that much.
> ...


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## icklemiss21 (Aug 29, 2004)

Surrender fees are only if you can not prove the cat is yours... my shelter also has that, but I have never been charged for any of the cats i have brought in.

And no offence... but again this is what YOU think... not everyone thinks the same way!


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## spamlet (Mar 14, 2005)

> It is difficult for me to think they feed their cats premium foods when one of the cats had a dislocated hip for the last three months.


 :? Not understanding the relevance between premium foods and injuries.



> I don't think any of my neighbors' cats are on a special diet because I live in a extremely low-income neighborhood where most people earn $20,000 or less.


 :? Again, not quite sure of the relevance between special diets and income.



> It breaks my heart to see little kittens being left outside in the rain.


My cats love the rain...so may other peoples. 

IMHO shengmei, whether you mean to be or not, you are often quite judgemental. You obviously are missing the point that both myself and icklemiss are trying to make. Never mind. All I can ask is that you think twice before feeding cats with collars on, cats that are obviously someones pet.


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## roseeden (May 18, 2005)

I am pretty sure we are talking about TOTALLY different situations in here. I understand that you feel upset because other people would feed your collared, obviously well-kept and well-fed cats. So far, my cats are the only cats in my neighborhood that are collared. I had never seen another collared cat around here. I don't know if I would feed a cat if it is collared but I probably would not feed collared cats simply because good cat food is so expensive and I would only give it to cats that need the good food. 

Spamlet, I appreciate your concerns but like Moggiegirl, every single cat book I had read that came from England would give totally different instructions than the cat books written in United States. I feel there is a cultural gap in our conversations and it is difficult for me to understand what you actually mean and vice versa.

When I say good cat food, I generally mean Nutro MaxCat Gourmet Classics unless otherwise specified. It is probably the only good cat food I can afford.


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## roseeden (May 18, 2005)

I think it really depends on the situation.

Normally, it is bad to feed other people's pets/children if they are well-fed. I believe if people suspect abuse/neglect that it is necessary. I had a teacher (10 years ago) who took a friend of mine home every night for dinner because she saw my friend digging for food in the trash. If I see an animal/human digging for food in the trash I would give it food.

I think it is as bad to say "I am going to feed EVERY single cat in my neighborhood, regardless of my neighbors' feelings or the cats' specific diet requirements" as to say "I will NEVER feed any cat in my neighborhood that has an owner, even if I suspect neglect/abuse".

As I have said, one of the neighbor's cat had been walking around outdoors with an obviously dislocated hip for three months and the owner didn't even seem to care. Under such situations I think I would be entitled to feed their cat. Obviously if the cat has a dislocated hip it would be much more difficult to catch mice to supplement its diet and additional food supplementation would become necessary if the owner keeps feeding the cat the same amount as she always feeds. I only know this because she lives right next door. She is actually a really nice person but she is CLUELESS about cats.


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## moggiegirl (May 15, 2005)

> spamlet said:
> 
> 
> > [quote:1rknkh01]It is difficult for me to think they feed their cats premium foods when one of the cats had a dislocated hip for the last three months.
> ...


 :? Again, not quite sure of the relevance between special diets and income.



> It breaks my heart to see little kittens being left outside in the rain.


[/quote:1rknkh01]


> My cats love the rain...so may other peoples.
> 
> IMHO shengmei, whether you mean to be or not, you are often quite judgemental. You obviously are missing the point that both myself and icklemiss are trying to make. Never mind. All I can ask is that you think twice before feeding cats with collars on, cats that are obviously someones pet.


[/quote:1rknkh01]

I think Shengmei means that people who feed premium brands and speical diets are much more likely to be people who truly care about the well being of their cats. People who don't care so much are going to feed the cheapest cat food, that's doesn't mean that all cat owners who feed cheap cat food don't care enough about their cats. What she's referring to are cats that she suspects don't have caring owners, who actually neglect their cats and therefore her heart goes out to these particular kitties. I would feel sorry for a neglected kitty who is left out in the rain. That's not the same as a well cared for kitty with a good owner and the cat loves the rain. 

To call someone judgemental, that's a pretty strong judgement in my opinion.


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## moggiegirl (May 15, 2005)

Just want to make myself clear that I do agree that it is wrong to feed cats that belong to responsible cat owners without permission and that it's wrong to try to enforce other cat food brands on other peoples cats. And I can also see the question of how can you be sure if the cat is being abused? But a cat with a dislocated hip in the rain that lives outside, I can understand why someone would want to feed that cat.


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## spamlet (Mar 14, 2005)

This seems to be going round and round in circles now. This particular disscusion began because Shengmei said that she didn't see a problem in feeding other people's cats. I said I do and explained my reasons for feeling this way. You cannot judge how a person treats their cats, based on what they feed them. Shengmei believes that if a cat is living on sub-standard food, then it is ok for her to feed it a higher quality of food...I personaly believe that this is wrong...it is not for anyone but the owner of that cat to decide what to feed them. I am nowhere near as bothered about my cats food as some people...they eat a commercial wet and dry food, both of which have been slated on this forum. But if it is good for me and my cats...then so be it. 




> I think Shengmei means that people who feed premium brands and speical diets are much more likely to be people who truly care about the well being of their cats


I am aware that this is what she means: and it is exactly this sentiment which I object to and find judgemental.


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## moggiegirl (May 15, 2005)

I understand. You have a point. Shengmei doesn't feed her cats the top of the line either. Fancy Feast, Special Kitty, but she loves her cats and so do you and that's what is really important. No more circles, I promise.


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## roseeden (May 18, 2005)

Nope, I don't feed them Special Kitty. 

I know a lot of people who do, though.

Here is a question: if I know somebody who insists on feeding their cats Special Kitty, should I at least convince the person to feed them the kitten formula??? In my opinion, since Special Kitty is so crappy, maybe their kitten food is about as nutritious as some of the other adult foods out there.


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## micp879 (Mar 22, 2005)

I dont think there is a problem with trying to convince someone to feed their pet better food. Its alot different than feeding their pet for them without their permission. I think alot of us on here frequently try to convince others to feed higher quality food than they already do. As far as convincing this person to feed kitten food, I would have to see the stats and ingredients. I know that technically kitten food is often listed as being permissive for "all life stages" if you read the fine print on the bag, however it can obviously make the cat overweight from excess calories, fat, etc.


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## roseeden (May 18, 2005)

That would not be a problem. Most of my neighbors' cats are outdoor mousers and are grossly underweight.


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## icklemiss21 (Aug 29, 2004)

Kitten formula is often more expensive so they may not feed it anyway and unless they ask for your opinion, I wouldn't say anything to them... they are still treating their animals a lot better than people who try and drown their kittens or turn them loose in the streets... so leave them to treat their pets as they see fit.

If when you have children, you were taking them to McDonalds for a treat and someone came up to you and told you that you were mistreating your children because you fed them unhealthy food I can imagine that you would not be happy... think the same with people and their animals.

You are entitled to your opinion, you are not entitled to force it onto people, if they want help, they will go looking for info or ask for it... other than that, I can imagine that whatever you recommend, they won't do it for whatever reason anyway.

Perhaps print a leaflet and put it through the doors of people you know own cats including those that feed what is in your opinion a healthier food and let them decide themselves, but by speaking to them you are being too pushy IMO.

If that is the case, with you feeding fancy feast, someone could move next door to you and be saying the exact same as you are about the girl feeding her cats the bad food... how would you feel?


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## micp879 (Mar 22, 2005)

I think it also depends on if the person is tactful in how they do it. I mean if you call up your neighbor and say "hi Frank, its Jane. I dont like what you are feeding your cat, and you are contributing to his death"... I think that type of suggestion is a problem. Its rude, and you wont get any results. If you happen to be in a friendly conversation about your pets with this person, and happen to start talking about the quality of pet foods, I dont think there is a problem with throwing in how people should think about feeding their pets healthier food, and how it will help with vet bills down the road. I see nothing innapropriate about that If that is considered judgemental, then the majority of us on this board are judgemental, because we promote healthier foods here all the time.


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## icklemiss21 (Aug 29, 2004)

I agree to an extent... but firstly the internet is anonamous so people don't feel so bad if thy don't give in to the ideas because these people do not judge them to the same extent as someone who knows you... secondly, people have come here looking for information on their cats.

Also, in Sheng-Mei's case she has indicated that many people in the area she lives in are low income / students and they may not have the money to feed their cats higher end foods. Sheng-Mei herself has posted that feeding her cats high quality food is an expense she can not afford.


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## roseeden (May 18, 2005)

icklemiss21 said:


> Also, in Sheng-Mei's case she has indicated that many people in the area she lives in are low income / students and they may not have the money to feed their cats higher end foods. Sheng-Mei herself has posted that feeding her cats high quality food is an expense she can not afford.


That's why they actually thanked me when I started feeding their cats. They didn't want to pay for more than $10 per cat per month.

However, sometimes I get so annoyed. Some of them could go to Abercombie and Fitch and buy a shirt that is $50, but claim that they don't have money to feed their cats 8O Meanwhile I wear the same shirts I had since junior high  .

But then, who am I to judge??? Maybe their self-esteem is dependent on their clothing. My self-esteem is dependent on my babies. Feeding Fancy Feast is actually more expensive than feeding Innova Evo.

Besides, Abercombie and Fitch made some T-shirts making fun of Asian people back in 2001. I actually joined a group of protesters protesting the company. I had not gone to their stores since.

How much protein (percentage wise) should be in adult dry cat food? 

How much fat? 

How much fiber? 

How much ash? 

How much taurine? 

I am SOOO confused!!!


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## micp879 (Mar 22, 2005)

I find the fact that on here it is anonymous makes no difference at all. If being anonymous mattered, then it would be ok if Shengmei left an anonymous note on her neighbors door step about cat food quality. As a cat owner, I would take much better to advice if someone happened to mention in passing in a person to person conversation. As far as the fact that people on here are looking for advice, I agree that helps around here. However, I still see no problem with someone mentioning in passing that grocery store food is poor quality, and cats would probably do better on a quality food. To me, it is all how you present it. If that means Im judgemental, sign me up, I will be the first in line to be called that. If it ends up prolonging the life of a cat (or 10), it was well worth it. Obviously I still dont condone feeding anyones cat a different food without the owners consent.


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## roseeden (May 18, 2005)

I think I am going to start by recommending the Special Kitty kitten formula since I just found out that the Special Kitty kitten formula is only 20 cents more expensive than the Special Kitty adult formula and those cats are so skinny. They should all be very young cats anyhow since college students usually get kittens.

Once they switch to Special Kitty kitten formula, I can then gradually persuade them to buy Purina One kitten formula. After they been switched to Purina One kitten formula then I would recommend something like Nutro. Actually I just got several $5 off coupons from Nutro from the local animal shelter so I probably would skip the Purina One step alltogether. Nutro can be obtained cheaply with coupons which can be obtained through the local animal shelter. 

I would NEVER recommend Wellness and Petguard canned foods. I know that I feed my cats those things but there is no way I can expect a college student to ever pay $1.20 (plus tax) for a 5.5 ounce of cat food. Even though I love my cats very much I can only afford it occasionally.

It angers me so much that the government puts a sales tax on cat food but not on human food. What were they thinking??? What if there are people out there who eat cat food because they are so poor??? Petguard canned foods are very tasty.

And of course, I am not big into that whole anonymity thing. I like to tell people AS IS, even if I have to say it directly to their faces. I had too many people backstabing my family when I was young that I value honesty and directness above all things else. I like to think I am soft-spoken but firm but of course, everybody thinks they are better than other people :lol:


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## spamlet (Mar 14, 2005)

> Once they switch to Special Kitty kitten formula, I can then gradually persuade them to buy Purina One kitten formula. After they been switched to Purina One kitten formula then I would recommend something like Nutro.












Interesting through that you consider Purina One a 'high quality' food...that stuff would never pass my cats little lips...Purina are owned by Nestle which have a disgusting human rights record, which just goes to show, what might be of high-quality in your view, will be of low-quality in someone else's; they canot be judged for that and vice versa. 

I would say if you feel you are doing the right thing by telling people the 'right' way to bring up their pets then, as icklemiss said, it would be more beneficial to type up some sort of leaflet with all the infomation on. That way, not only do you protect yourself from any possible irrate neighbours, but they won't automatically jump on the defensive, and may actually take some of the stuff in. 

I still believe however, that it is none of your buisness.


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## roseeden (May 18, 2005)

Nope, Purina One kitten formula is not a high-quality food. It is a medium-quality food. It is meant as an intermediate step between Special Kitty and other premium, high-quality foods.

Special Kitty and stuff like Wellness differ so greatly in both price and quality that making such a sudden switch would take A LOT more than a leaflet. I would prefer them to get out of the "Special Kitty" mentality first before I do anything.

I would, however, prefer they increase their food quality slowly. There is going to be a huge sticker shock when they go to the pet food shop and try to buy Wellness. Wellness is FIFTEEN times more expensive than Special Kitty. There is no way I can make my neighbors switch to Wellness by printing out leaflets and giving them leaflets alone.

In my opinion, this is an order of the quality of different foods.

Cozy Kitty-->Kroger-->Albertson-->Natue's Recipe-->Special Kitty-->Happy Tails-->9 Lives-->Meow Mix-->Whiskas (US version)--> Friskies (US version)-->Purina Cat Chow->Iams-->Hills Science Diet-->Purina Pro Plan-->Purina One-->Fancy Feast-->Nutro-->Wysong-->Innova-->Wellness-->Petguard-->Alma Nature-->Nature's Prairie-->Merrick's Gourmet


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## spamlet (Mar 14, 2005)

Shengmei, this is the last time I will post on here now...I am frustrated that you don't understand or refuse to try and understand my point...and we have also well hijacked this thread. Sorry for that.

The point I have been making now for the past 3/4 days has nothing to do with what you believe is a good quality food. That is not the point. The point is, as long as those kittens are being looked after ie. not abused, beat up, starved etc. then it is none of your buisness what they are fed.

My point about Purina was that regardless of how high a quality you believe it is, in my eyes it is the worst my cats could have...It is owned by a company that I choose to boycott...you cannot second-guess other people's financial situations/morals/views etc. And in my opinion it is highly rude to do so.

You *can not* go to those families and suggest they try this food and then try that food. You are not a vet, you have no authority on that. If you have reason to believe that the cats are not being treated well, then you report it. Whether you agree or not, please aknowledge that you *understand* what it is I am trying to say. How other people choose to 'bring up' their pets has nothing to do with you. If someone came round to my house and claimed to know what was best for my pets... :twisted:

Anyway, you will do what you will do...I understand that. Just thank your lucky stars you're not my neighbour. :wink:


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## icklemiss21 (Aug 29, 2004)

shengmei said:


> In my opinion, this is an order of the quality of different foods.
> 
> Cozy Kitty-->Kroger-->Albertson-->Natue's Recipe-->Special Kitty-->Happy Tails-->9 Lives-->Meow Mix-->Whiskas (US version)--> Friskies (US version)-->Purina Cat Chow->Iams-->Hills Science Diet-->Purina Pro Plan-->Purina One-->Fancy Feast-->Nutro-->Wysong-->Innova-->Wellness-->Petguard-->Alma Nature-->Nature's Prairie-->Merrick's Gourmet


The words IN MY OPINION say alot here... it is your opinion, but when it comes to someone elses cats, it is their opinion that matters, not yours.

I personally would disagree with your order of the quality of foods and therefore if you asked me to feed one of those foods over Innova, I would be upset at you.

There are plenty of ferals and strays that need more help than a cat that has a warm home but gets fed special kitty. If you want to help, why not volunteer at an animal shelter or something?


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## lilysong (Apr 4, 2005)

spamlet said:


> You *can not* go to those families and suggest they try this food and then try that food. You are not a vet, you have no authority on that. If you have reason to believe that the cats are not being treated well, then you report it. Whether you agree or not, please aknowledge that you *understand* what it is I am trying to say. How other people choose to 'bring up' their pets has nothing to do with you. If someone came round to my house and claimed to know what was best for my pets... :twisted:


WORD. Times TWO.

Thanks, spamlet and icklemiss, for saying lots of what I've been thinking.


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## roseeden (May 18, 2005)

What if their choice of food is an indication of how they feel about their cats??? I mean, we are not talking about something like Iams or Purina. We are talking about something that is half price of regular grocery food.

Those are not feral cats. Those are cats people had obtained since they were kittens. They are socialized and they should had demanded better respect.

All my cats were ugly malnurished runts when I got them. They are beautiful and magnificent now.

I believe that as soon as they start feeding better food to those kitties, the kitties would look better and they would be more willing to keep the kitties after they leave.

I know I felt a lot better about my kitties after I stopped feeding them Special Kitty

Personally, I am kind of tired of taking care of other people's cats after they move.

I am sorry about dragging such long-winded debate. I am very passionate about what other people feed their cats. If they would only stop feeding their cats Special Kitty the cats would look much better. Better-looking cats would abandoned a lot less likely.


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## lilysong (Apr 4, 2005)

There is no possible way for me to reply to that post and not be entirely offensive and rude.

The only thing I _will_ say is in reply to this:

"Personally, I am kind of tired of taking care of other people's cats after they move."

THEN DON'T. While it's admirable that you're attempting to assume responsibility for cats who find themselves to be stray, it is _your choice_. Nobody is making you do so. You need to stop blaming people for your own choices.

Right now, you are pre-emptively punishing your neighbors, deciding that they are intentionally neglecting their cats, abusing them by feeding food that isn't up to your standard, and you are asserting that, because their cats are scrawny, your neighbors will abandon them. This is a whole lot of ugly. I hope you can see that.

If you choose to take care of these cats, that's great. But it is your choice. Nobody else's.


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## roseeden (May 18, 2005)

Actually, now you mention it....lately I haven't seen a lot of stray cats around for about a week now. The foods I put out went untouched. The birds ate more than the cats. Either my neighbors came back for those cats or somebody adopted them. I hope the animal control didn't pick them up.


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