# Manual grinders



## Michelle L (Sep 4, 2008)

Hi all

I realize this may be a silly question and I think I already know the answer, but I'll ask anyway...

I am a big advocate of raw feeding and did it with my dog up until he passed away. I have switched all four of my cats to canned food and loved the results I have seen, and want to move on to feeding them raw. Two of my cats go absolutely ape over raw meat so I know it wouldn't take much effort to transition all of them over to raw. 

So now, I'm stuck on the issue of a meat grinder. Right now, cash is tight and I just can't afford one of the electric grinders that can handle bones and probably won't be able to afford one for some time (My husband is the only one working; I'm a full-time student trying to get into nursing school). I've read about substitution recipes that you can use without bones, but that it isn't good for them in the long-term. 

My question is...would it be impossible to grind bones with a manual grinder? I've never used one and have no idea how hard they would be to crank.

Thanks!


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## laurief (Jun 22, 2008)

I recently transitioned 14 of my 15 cats to raw (actually, they get Evo dry in the morning and raw at night). I, too. would like an electric grinder for bone grinding, but can't afford one. I considered a manual grinder, too, and was told that a heavy manual grinder could handle bones. Then I thought about the hassle of disassembling and cleaning the grinder every day, so I chose a different option.

I use chicken necks to add bone to the cats' raw meal, so I just cut the necks into small pieces. Five or six of my cats will crunch up the pieces on their own, which I figure is the best option for teeth cleaning, anyway. Most of the other cats will only eat crushed bone, so I use a mallet to smash them (the bones, not the cats ... though there are moments ...). A couple of the cats refuse to eat even smashed bones, little turkey butts! But that's a whole different issue.

Anyhow, I think you might find a kitchen mallet to be an easier option than a grinder, and if you're really lucky, your cats will be bone crunchers who won't even need their bones smashed.

Laurie


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## Michelle L (Sep 4, 2008)

LOL at the "there are moments..." comment!

I have tried chicken necks and chicken feet with my really aggressive meat eater, and bless his heart he really tried to give it a go. He dragged it around, looked at it, slapped it with his paw, circled it (as if would be different on the other side), nibbled on it, and finally gave up and left it laying on the kitchen floor. 

The mallet idea occurred to me, but I think I would rather just make a big batch of food to freeze and have ground up bones in it. I think it would go over better with my kids, at least at first. I appreciate the input and I am glad that someone has told you that a manual grinder might be do-able.


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## laurief (Jun 22, 2008)

I tossed a few whole chicken necks on a towel on my kitchen floor to see what the cats would do, and they did pretty much the same thing as your boy: licking, swatting, circling, nibbling, dragging, then ultimately giving up. They have a much easier time with cut up chicken necks than with whole ones. I've never tried chicken feet.

Manual grinders often show up at Goodwill, Salvation Army, and thrift shops. You should be able to pick one up for around $5.00, so you won't be out much if it doesn't work to grind bones.

Laurie


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## chris10 (Feb 20, 2006)

They grind bones. When I ground my food I use to do whole chickens. Just took a little bit of elbow grease.

Here is a pic of me doing bones using a universal #3 with the smallest grinding plate. Kinda hard to tell it was bones going through it. But the stuff coming out is whiter than all meat would look.









Here is some grinding plates


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## Michelle L (Sep 4, 2008)

Awesome! Hey, my arms could use a workout anyway.

My cats thank you. Especially Gianni, who needs to be locked in the bedroom when I prepare chicken because he tries to steal it off of the counter. He'll be in heaven when I switch.


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## rivernuts (Apr 12, 2006)

This grinder was recommended on a raw food site and isn't too expensive. I've used it about 20 times grinding about 20lbs of chickens thighs each time without a single problem.

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/ ... 6989_36989


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## Michelle L (Sep 4, 2008)

Thank you! 

This is actually pretty similar to another model I was looking at earlier, but it's not as pricey. After some discussion with my husband tonight, we decided to start the cats on a raw diet without ground bones for now (with calcium supplement, of course) and buy a good grinder after Christmas in January and start using real bone then. It doesn't hurt that my husband has been wanting a good meat grinder for about a year now to make homemade sausage with.


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## Donaldjr1969 (Feb 8, 2005)

rivernuts said:


> This grinder was recommended on a raw food site and isn't too expensive. I've used it about 20 times grinding about 20lbs of chickens thighs each time without a single problem.
> 
> http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/ ... 6989_36989


I too have that grinder and I can vouch for it. It grinds thigh and leg bones from chickens without any problems. If there is a downside, it is loud.  But Michelle, if you and your husband do decide to get this grinder in the future, it will be money well spent and you will be happy with it.

_edit_: Here is the same meat grinder on eBay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-4-HP-Electric-Mea ... 0315958324

If you or your husband bid on eBay, this may be worth a shot, especially if you can win it for 30-40 dollars. Shipping is what it is because it is a heavy item.


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## Michelle L (Sep 4, 2008)

That's what I though too. I watched a video on You Tube of an electric grinder in action and I thought..."that's the way to go!" 

The link you posted to the Sam Baere grinder on Ebay is actually the exact one that I had been eyeballing, but I had seen one with a "Buy it now" price. Bidding sounds like a good idea if I can save some $$!

Now I'm spooked about raw feeding though. Someone build my confidence here...when I fed my dog raw it wasn't rocket science. But I've been looking at another forum and I have been seeing things that make it seem like an exact science for cats; that the phosphorus levels must be calculated for different types of meat to balance the calcium ratio, or that if you feed too much weight-bearing bones that you'll throw off calcium levels, etc. I don't want to harm my cats in any way. Is there any one perfect recipe out there for someone just starting off? I have this one:

http://www.catnutrition.org/recipes.php

Thanks, everyone, for all of your help.


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## Donaldjr1969 (Feb 8, 2005)

Michelle L said:


> Now I'm spooked about raw feeding though. Someone build my confidence here...when I fed my dog raw it wasn't rocket science. But I've been looking at another forum and I have been seeing things that make it seem like an exact science for cats; that the phosphorus levels must be calculated for different types of meat to balance the calcium ratio, or that if you feed too much weight-bearing bones that you'll throw off calcium levels, etc. I don't want to harm my cats in any way. Is there any one perfect recipe out there for someone just starting off? I have this one:
> 
> http://www.catnutrition.org/recipes.php
> 
> Thanks, everyone, for all of your help.


I would not worry TOO much over the right raw food recipies. But that recipe is the exact one I feed Willie. Over the past year, it has worked wonders for him! His IBS is not a problem anymore and he is like a totally different cat! He has the energy of a cat much younger than him and he is no longer lethargic. I can give a strong recommendation for that recipe right there.

As you may have noticed, that recipe uses a glandular supplement. That is part of the equation. If you cannot find it locally, I would definitely order it. FWIW, the company that the site links to for that glandular supplement, VitaNet, is a good business. I live 25 minutes away from them so I buy the stuff directly from their storefront. They are a business ran from their home. Their store is an addition on to the house and they have a very good selection in the storefront alone. And if they do not have anything in stock, they will order it and the turnaround is about a week. So if you need to order the glandular supplement, I can give a big thumbs-up to that company linked to in that recipe.


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## Michelle L (Sep 4, 2008)

Super, thanks Don! I had noticed that it was tough to locate that particular supplement. I have seen all kinds of other glandular supplements but they don't appear to be multi-gland, so I had planned on ordering exactly what this recipe called for. Thanks for the recommendation for this company. 

I have two cats that are brother/sister, and the female has been diagnosed with IBD. She has a mild case of it, but both she and her brother vomited nearly every day when they were on dry. Then one of my other cats started vomiting regularly too. I was up to my elbows in vomit, or so it seemed. I switched to canned food and the difference in everyone's health is like night and day. The vomiting stopped and so did the heavy shedding. I think I have actually narrowed down the female's vomiting problem to a tuna allergy and not IBD because every time she has canned food with tuna in it, it comes back up. I completely cut out the tuna and *bingo*, she hasn't vomited since. 

I can't wait to see how raw will affect them.


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## Donaldjr1969 (Feb 8, 2005)

One little thing I tend to do is to open the grinder and clear out any unground bone chunks on that electric after every 4th or 5th bone. The grinder does not clog or bog down, per sé. Rather the parts of the thigh bones that do not grind up just spin around with the cutter and it slows down the grinding rate. It is always the same part of the bone that is left behind. It kind of reminds me of half a pistachio shell. As I said, grinding a dozen bones will not hurt anything. It is just that by clearing that unground fragment, your grinding will be faster.


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## petspy (Sep 11, 2008)

*new issue - old thread;*

I was wondering if someone familiar with MANUAL Grinders
could provide a link to a vintage grinder being sold on ebaY
that could grind whole chickens after I cut out the femur.
I'm strong enough to provide the horsepower, I just want
to know what structure and components to look for that
clamps securely, turns comfortably, and cleans easy. 
my plan is to grind one raw Chicken per Month, and 
freeze 2oz portions for later defrosting and feeding.

what does it mean when a manual grinder is #1, #2 or #3?

for example, what are the pros & cons of getting this;
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0121582688
or instead of a clamp held model, should I get it with legs?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0333471241
should I be looking for a Chum Grinder for doing bones;
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0086806588


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## chris10 (Feb 20, 2006)

petspy said:


> what does it mean when a manual grinder is #1, #2 or #3?


Just the size of the grinder. 3 is the biggest and the best route to go if you buy one of those types


> for example, what are the pros & cons of getting this;
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0121582688


It is a #1 and is pretty small. Might take a while to grind.


> or instead of a clamp held model, should I get it with legs?
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0333471241


I personally would do clamped. Not sure if this will be enough to get through some bones.


> should I be looking for a Chum Grinder for doing bones;
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0086806588


That one is cool looking. If I had it I would use it. It has 4mm holes which are 1mm smaller than mine at its widest point. Pricey

If you buy one of these off of ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/UNIVERSAL-3-FOOD-CHOPPER-MEAT-GRINDER-w-BLADES_W0QQitemZ330298203108 Just try to find an auction with at least the smallest plate in the pic (the cross cutting blade does not go with the chopper)

This is similar to your last link. these, like the one you posted, will need a semi permanent location. The feet will need to be attached to a table.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Enterprise-12-V...l_Kitchen_Appliances_US?hash=item150319448800

Good luck


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## petspy (Sep 11, 2008)

chris10 said:


> If you buy one of these off of ebay
> http://cgi.ebay.com/UNIVERSAL-3-FOOD-CHOPPER-MEAT-GRINDER-w-BLADES_W0QQitemZ330298203108
> Just try to find an auction with the smallest plate in the pic
> (the cross cutting blade does not go with the chopper)


chris - thank you for your excellent guidance.
but you lost me on that last qualification;
"cross cutting blade does not go with the chopper"
could you explain please, I'm new to this equipment.
do you mean that black X shape blade top center?


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## chris10 (Feb 20, 2006)

petspy said:


> do you mean that black X shape blade top center?


Yes. That type of blade is made for different grinders. The seller either doesn't know or just trying to get rid of it.


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## petspy (Sep 11, 2008)

if you stumble over a photo of what the correct
looking cross cutting blade should look like, post it.

I assume it's a similar X shape, only with the
same center axle aperture as the other disks.

for example, what is the cross cutting blade here;
that part with only 3 blades coming out of the axle?


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## chris10 (Feb 20, 2006)

The universal grinders (and a few others) use the cutting plates, total of 4 in the pic, to cut meat and bone. The x blade is made for applications like the chum and sausage grinder you and I posted.

So I guess to clear it up. If you come across any grinders with cutting plates such as shown in the pic you posted then they won't need an x cutting blade. These types of grinders with the flat plates http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370141160516 will use an x cutting blade as shown in their pic.

Sorry if I am confusing you


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## petspy (Sep 11, 2008)

am I correct in assuming that the longer the cylinder
(or distance between the in-shoot and out-extruder)
the better a job a grinder will do on bones? so that
is why a chum grinder is longer than a meat grinder?
or do I just look for a model with that X cutting blade.


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## chris10 (Feb 20, 2006)

petspy said:


> am I correct in assuming that the longer the cylinder
> (or distance between the in-shoot and out-extruder)
> the better a job a grinder will do on bones?


Good question. I really don't know. I haven't experimented with the longer cylinders yet. Hopefully someone else will chime in about that.

The only reason why I have a Universal #3 is because I found them at a thrift store. It works on chickens. I once found an old electric grinder with an X cutting blade and flat plate. It worked until I stuffed too much bone through it (it was not even remotely designed for bones) and ceased the motor. There are those expensive electric grinders with X blades and beefy motors that go through chicken and bones. So the manuals should, provided with the right elbow grease and generous leverage from the handle, go through them also.

IMO both types of grinders will do the job.


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## petspy (Sep 11, 2008)

I thought I'd describe my current routine, now that I've posponed investing in a chum grinder;

I purchase 10LBs of Raw Chicken bottoms for .49¢/LB which is a common Monthly special sale price in many Grocery chains. I just call the store first, ask for the butcher, and he'll prepare a 10LB batch for me while I'm on the way there. I take it home, and using a 99¢ wood handled paring knife, I can debone about a dozen legs and thighs and prepare them for freezing in under an hour. I put a long sheet of plastic wrap down, lay all the meat fat skin and cartilage down flat, then lay another plastic wrap sheet over it, roll the whole mess up, sealing the ends, and then place it in my freezer. once frozen solid, all I have to do is peel off a few frozen pieces from the roll, place them in my fridge to defrost, and the next few days I have raw meet ready to dice into bite size chunks for my cats to enjoy. This preparation yields me about 7LBs of flesh, or enough to feed my two cats their 1.5oz meal each for a Month. This special dinner makes my cats hair softer, them happier and more active, and is a great way to dose other nutritional powdered health supplements such as L-Lysine. For an hours work, this is a huge savings off smelly canned wet food, since I'm able to provide about 30 cans worth of fresh food for only $5. Since they are still eating 2oz of dry kibble the rest of the day, I'm relying on that as the source of other nutrients and supplements not already in this raw dark meat chicken. With next Month's batch, I plan to take a hammer and pulverize into a course powder the softer hollow ilium (hip) bones I used to discard, then include it with the other flesh thereby increasing the usable batch yield by another pound. That way the only part going to waste will be the hardest tibia and femur (leg) bones - so buying a grinder just for those two would be pointless.










*Debone Chicken Leg Video:* http://www.5min.com/Video/De-Boning-Chi ... 1-84003232


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## Khari (Jan 25, 2009)

Thank you so much for the de-boning video....it is absolutely heaven sent :lol: I feed mostly thigh and leg (both for the higher taurine levels) and I have been struggling for months to cut up chicken bone thigh/leg meat. It has been taking so long to cut it up, cutting myself in the process, really sore afterwards, and making excuses not to cut up the meat.... This will make my life ten times easier :jump Thank you!

I bought a Tasin electric meat grinder just before christmas and it is awesome! I feed mostly meat chunks and some ground (I like to have it on hand for when my cats are being picky! :roll: ) The bone I do feed my one cat is mainly bone in the meat chunks. My other cat I have to grind a small amount so she doesn't know she is eating it :lol: 

Thanks again! :worship


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