# sick old kitty, advice needed :(



## jayfry (Jun 17, 2015)

Hi, so background.. I have an eldery cat, 16 years old, that I got 2 years ago from the shelter. Someone left her as a "problem cat" because she has hyperthyroidism and an instentinal problem that causes her to have diahrrea all the time (many times not in the litter box because she can't make it there in time ..). After having her for a year I switched her to a raw diet and her diahrrea went away, so her hydration improved and she put on some weight, she was at 5.9 lbs. At the shelter before we got her they removed most of her teeth, and don't ask me why but they left some not so great teeth behind. Well they got worse and worse and then came the decision to put her under and get the really bad ones removed and the good ones cleaned, or let her remain in whatever pain she was in from rotten teeth. Well knowing the risks we decided it would be better to risk her possible passing quietly under anasthesia than living in pain. But the ordeal afterwards was/ is horrible. She survived the anasthesia, but during the dental her lungs filled a bit with fluid and she returned to us with pneumonia. After an emergency vet visit, 3 days there on fluids and meds, and apparently doing great, eating drinking, purring, going to the bathroom... she came back with clavamox for the pneumonia, metrinidazole for diahrrea, cerenia for anti-nausea.. and thats on top of her methimazole for hyperthyroidism, prednisilone, and vitamins (liquitinec and fortiflora). The vet said stop the raw diet for now until she recovers because of possible bacteria that her body can't handle right now, and as long and shes eating any canned food I'm happy right now. But, her diahrrea started up again. She was home for three days but she looked like a zombie, and extremely nauseous from the antibiotics, not wanting to eat or drink, so we took her back to the vet, back on fluids and meds and again doing great, happy eating drinking. And she went up from 4.2 (at the begining of this nightmare) to 4.8 lbs. So today we brought her back home... haven't given her the meds yet (she gets them at 10), but I have been giving her pedialyte every half hour to make sure she doesn't get dehydrated again. She HATES the antibiotics and I'm scared she'll stop eating again, does anyone have any advice or experience on a kitty with pneumonia, what to do to make her feel better, ease the meds  it seems like shes good when shes on fluids but crappy when shes back home. Shes old, she has her probs that I mentioned, but everything else is good, great bloodwork, so I just need advice!! How much pedialyte should I give? Is there something else better I should use? Should I make sure to force feed her if she doesn't want to eat shortly before med time? Anything!! She needs to feel better so she she eats and keeps her energy up.


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## spirite (Jul 31, 2012)

Oh my goodness, what an awful experience for both of you. She is very lucky to have found you - not many people would have been willing to take a senior kitty with health issues. 

Is she getting IV or subcutaneous fluids at the vet? Is administering subQ fluids at home an option, so that she can stay hydrated? I don't know anything about pneumonia in cats. I just wanted to wish you well. 

I hope someone who has some experience will be by with some advice for you.


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Oh Jenny! I'm so sorry you and her are going through this...
Bless you for caring so much and taking care of her...
I really hope someone has a Great Idea for you soon...
Meanwhile, I can offer (((HUGS))) for you, and Healing Prayers for her...
Sharon


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## DebS (Jun 14, 2015)

Jenny, you are an angel for taking in this kitty. I don't know anything about pneumonia in cats but I do have lots of experience with giving subcutaneous fluids to a cat at home. Is this an option? I found it really easy and it helped my cat, who had kidney disease, immensely. My heart goes out to you and your baby.


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Jenny, I hope Stryker sees this...
More (((HUGS))) and Healing Prayers for her, along with some gentle PetPets. ..
Sharon


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## Stryker (Apr 2, 2007)

Hi *jayfry* and welcome to the forum !

You know, there are stories that are really touching....and there are others that just melt one's heart. It's just really nice to read your story.

Just a few quick points for now...

I'm hoping you have Clavamox _*pills*_....if it's liquid, that may explain why she "hates" it. If it's liquid (and, if I were you) I'd be bringing it back and getting the balance of the dosing in tab form - and I wouldn't be paying extra either.

This next part is an aside of sorts, but, it may/could/should impact your dealing with this Vet from here forward. You said


> during the dental her lungs filled a bit with fluid and she returned to us with pneumonia.


The only way that fluid could have entered her lungs would relate to the management/mismanagement/lack of management of her endotracheal tube. This issue is paramount before, during and after any surgery - but - in oral surgery is becomes even more important so that no liquid nor debris is aspirated (inhaled). So, what she has is Aspiration Pneumonia - it is potentially life-threatening, so you'll need to watch her like a hawk for any signs of respiratory distress...and get her back in quickly in that event. Rest (perhaps confine her to one quiet space) and added humidity are probably the only extras you can provide. Obviously the antibiotics for their full duration is critical. I'd be taking her back for rechecks - listening to her chest/breathing - as well. Now, there are risks to all surgery...but - if it were me, I would take the position that all the post-dental care costs be covered by the clinic. That is to say, all costs associated with re-hospitalization and after costs should not be your responsibility.

You should be getting at least a small amount of food into her before the Clavamox. I'd be inclined to give the drug 1/4-1/2 way through a feeding.

Syringe feeding ? If she's not eating the amounts she should, then yes. The caveat, of course, is that she MUST not aspirate any of it (nor any liquids you give). If she's congested anyway, that's going to be tricky. What works for me, and, it is time-consuming, is to instill just a few drops of food at a time (in the side pocket of the mouth), withdraw the syringe and let the cat swallow, then repeat. I use a 10ml/cc nedleless syringe.

Have you syringe-fed in the past ?

So far as liquids go, you may not have to give very much if she's getting enough wet food. I can't suggest amounts, but I'd me more focused on wet food than extra oral liquids. Extra liquids are obviously going to reduce the amount of food you can get into her.

About giving fluids at home.....what's the state of her kidney function? Cats with any degree of kidney "disease" (less than normal kidney function) can usually benefit from receiving extra water intake, and the easiest way is to give that "subcutaneously" "Sub-Q"- under the skin. Doing this shouldn't be an automatic go-to thing - its use should be discussed with a competent feline Vet....yes, too much water isn't a good thing. (I don't know your familiarity with this, but there's a really good coverage of it in a very reliable website right here: Fluid Therapy

The diarrhea: whether or not the change from raw food caused its return, cats tend to develop diarrhea when receiving antibiotics...so, what you're seeing may be related to the Clavamox. Now you mentioned FortiFlora. That isn't a vitamin, it is a probiotic. Antibiotics destroy beneficial bacteria in the gut used for digestion...so, probiotics are often given to help restore that bacteria. Don't give the a/b and the probiotic at the same time - space them out away from each other by at least a couple of hours.

About not using raw food now: IF her mouth has fully healed, I'm not so sure that the concerns about "bacteria" are warranted. Has she had a thorough recheck of her mouth yet ? (btw, that's standard practice) Are you certain that she's healed up ?

Someone I know who's a member here but very active "elsewhere" is very knowledgeable on raw feeding and has exceptional knowledge of immune function. I will ask her if she could drop in and give you some perspective about this. Obviously, the sooner you can get this little cat back on a proper diet, the better. This person is very knowledgeable on probiotics as well - and I know there is better than FortiFlora to be had.

OK. I had said a few points only. So much for that. Hopefully, something in there will be helpful.

If there's anything else, just post back.


BTW - "elderly kitty" just doesn't cut it 'round here.....we need to refer to her with something more than "she" and "her" (and, while you're at that, some pix would be nice too !


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## jayfry (Jun 17, 2015)

Thank you all so much for your replies and thoughts! I really do appreciate it. So my kitty's name is Mia, and little Mia has been getting so much better . Her last vet stay on Wed., they gave her mirtazipine, the appetite stimulant, and since she came home she has been eating voraciously, with very much decreased my fears that she going to go down hill again. Shes also been drinking a lot. Stryker, I really appreciate your advice and was hoping very much I would get such an informing reply like yours. To answer some things, 
1. yes I assumed it was aspiration pneumonia, and I was furious at that fact, that with all of my attempts to tell them how delicate and fragile she was, and how extra careful to be with her, that something like this happened. We were sent home with her limp and struggling to breath and told "oh shes fine shes fine shes just waking up she'll be fine" and in the morning when I told them what a horrifying night it was, I was told "oh this is normal with some cats, she'll be ok in a couple days." Then when I confronted the dr. the next day, she was defensive and obviously nervous around me, saying "well, shes old, you agreed to the dental." Very unprofessional and just inhumane to hear what Mia was going through, and offer nothing but "blame" on me. She won't ever touch my animals again. They took no responsibility, financially or otherwise. 
2. She had bloodwork before the dental, and after, and we were told by both the emergency dr. and normal dr. that her kidneys were great, along with her other organs, and that it was surprising to a cat her age and with hyperthyroidism to be in such good condition otherwise.
3. Yes I've syringe fed before, my family has had a lot of animals, many old, and sick. So we've had a lot of experience, but never with something like this. 
4. I would love to know better options on probiotics for Mia. If theres something that would be more effective, that would be great for her.
5. The dr. checked Mia's mouth at our last visit and said her mouth looks great, everything has healed up nicely.
6. Good to know about the probiotics and a/b, I actually skipped it since she came back home, and I'll continue to skip it till shes off the a/bs. I also stopped the cerenia, I skipped in once to see her if her reaction was less zombie like, and from what I observed, she actually looked and acted so much better, so I just stopped it (I hate drugging her up so much, I feel like its all too much for her tiny body)
7. I have a follow up appt tomorrow morning, hopefully she gained a bit of weight back, and hopefully all goes well!


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Jenny,
Bless you and Mia!
(((HUGS))) and more Healing Prayers for her!
Sharon
P.S.
I want to say "Thank You" to Stryker to!


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## jayfry (Jun 17, 2015)

correction- 1. I can't say "they" took no responsibility. The owner offered a discount on her last stay on fluids.


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## KsKatt (Jul 6, 2014)

Look around, see if there is a cats only vet. Talk to local cat rescues ask what vets they like. Give thought to how long a drive you can handle. A good vet is worth quite a few extra miles, if necessary.
You and Mia definitely went through an experience that should never have happened!


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## LDG (Apr 20, 2012)

Oh my goodness, what an ordeal.







I'm greatly relieved to hear she's doing better. SO glad the appetite stimulant helped!

Given her GI sensitivity, in the future, if you are comfortable giving injections at home, you may want to ask your future vet for injectible clindamycin. This bypasses the GI tract. Clavamox seems to be especially hard on cats with GI issues. Perhaps the treatment is different due to it being aspiration pneumonia (







), but typical med for bronchial problems is doxycycline, actually. Unfortunately it is only available in liquid form.

As to a healthy probiotic, Fortiflora is not it. It is mostly animal digest and has just one strain of probiotic in it. If it hasn't helped the diarrhea, it isn't going to. Mia needs her healthy flora replaced, meaning she needs a good acidophilus + bifidus based multi-strain probiotic. One well accepted by cats is the people probiotic, Renew Life, Ultimate Flora, 15 bn CFU. Give 1/2 capsule on or in food 2x a day, at least 2 hours after antibiotic administration, and continue it at least a month after you finish the antibiotics. Vets investigating the area and that present at conferences support the use if human probiotics in cats, and at the much higher doses than cat probiotics. The "give animal specific strains" is hogwash. There are exactly five studies attempting to identify the natural bacteria in cat huts - it is nascent research, and they really have no clue yet. Acidophilus and bifidus strains were found, and we at least have one study indicating cats benefit from acidophilus as we do.

I'd put her back on her raw. I don't take my cats off raw when they get dentals or when they get sick, or have surgery, or when they're on chemo. IMO, and my vet that isn't pro- or anti- raw agrees there's no need to change their diet. My FIV+ boy had four teeth removed, including a canine. I don't use antibiotics prophylactically, and my vet knows this. I obviuosly kept an eye on his mouth and took him back for a follow-up. But I think their immune systems function much better when they're not taxed trying to digest and metabolize food that isn't the same quality or bioavailability. Especially if they are otherwise thriving on the diet.

In the meantime, to help stop the antibiotic-induced diarrhea, use S boulardii. You can buy Florastor at Costco or Walmart. Give 1/2 capsule 2x a day mixed into a bit of Beech Nut baby food. This is a yeast-based probiotic, a close cousin of Brewer's Yeast. It is actually the most researched probiotic there is, and it is used by UC Davis in cats to treat antibiotic-resistant C diff. It is used in many hospitals to treat antibiotic-induced diarrhea. It is not metabolized, but passes undigested into the intestines where it works locally in the lumen. It helps restore normal function, and creates an environment where the healthy bacteria can thrive. It also reduces inflammation. Unlike the strains in the Renew Life, it does not populate the gut, and will be out of her system completely within 36 hours of stopping it.

Health food stores often carry Renew Life probiotics and Jarrow brand S boulardii with MOS. This can also be used instead of the Florastor.

I hope she continues to improve!!!!

Laurie


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## jayfry (Jun 17, 2015)

Thank you, very helpful. So things have taken a turn for the worse. Mia's a tough lady, and still pushing through, she's alert, she cuddles, looks for sunny spots, goes to the bathroom and drinks, but for some reason she has suddenly gotten insanely congested, and thus now only eats tiny little portions of food throughout the day. I can feel her losing weight, which is really scary because she's already under 5 lbs. a day ago I couldn't even give her her liquid meds because she'd start choking on it as soon as a drop went in her mouth, because of this stupid congestion! I got a humidifier and I've been sitting in the bathroom with her, Im in there a couple hrs ( she's not in vapor for a couple hrs, I have it on and when she can't breathe I put her on the counter, humidifier on the floor, so the vapor is under her, then she sits there on her own will and after 5 minutes she moves to the floor where there's cool air), and I do that coupage thing, lightly thump her sides to loosen anything. She ate a little as soon as she could breathe, but I'm worried because it's not enough food for her to keep up any strength. The poor baby never gets any sleep either because of this. Now lack of sleep and not enough food are going to kill her slowly, regardless of if antibiotics are doing their job for the pneumonia. Also, since the clavamox finished, the vet put her on orbax, saying he likes to rotate antibiotics in case one isn't working enough. So she's off clavamox, onto orbax.  shes suffering and I feel helpless not being able to relieve her of this congestion. Any ideas for extreme congestion? There's no constant discharge I can just hear her nose is completely blocked, and when she got in a sneezing fit an hr ago, snot came flying out everywhere. I opened a Vix jar and have it sitting by her so maybe her smelling it can do something? I don't know, the vets aren't helping me, emergency or normal. They say I could bring her in but they would try the same thing, coupage (so in my mind if they can't do anything different, the stress of taking her in again might do her more harm) she has another follow up tomorrow, where she'll get some subq fluids, I'm sure she's dehydrated. I'm struggling to find anything online also, I've had cats with very bad colds, and these techniques I read of might have worked with them, but she has this deep congestion in her nose and throat and nothing's working. Her respiratory rate is good, but it takes so much effort for her. Yesterday for a bit she had to breathe through her mouth it was so bad. Here's a pic of her btw


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Jenny,
I'm so sorry to hear Mia has taken a down turn
I hope someone has an idea of a decongestant for her...
She looks like such a Sweet old girl...
(((HUGS))) and Prayers for a Miracle for her.
Sharon


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## KsKatt (Jul 6, 2014)

I wish it could be as "easy" as Sky's feeding tube. With lots of research I have found that feeding tubes are a wonderful, short term or long term aid for getting nutrients into a cat. It causes Sky no distress at all and has been great for getting meds into him. 
The odds are great that Mia's age and condition would make inserting one too difficult. It wouldn't hurt to ask. If you can finger or syringe feed her enough hopefully with little to no stress.
I know it doesn't help with the congestion, but if she's going to starve slowly. Something has to get food into her.


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## stephy (Aug 17, 2011)

Canadian Tire - Sunbeam Warm Mist Vaporizer customer reviews - product reviews - read top consumer ratings

Try this... put her on say a couch with a sheet sraped over the back to make like a tent and run the vaperizer (water only) so it gets steamy... don't make it too thick with air though. it really helped with mine. I offered mine a sniff of cat nip to encourage sneezing right after and goobs came flying out. mine was also on http://www.fanciers.com/cat-facts/c...ycin-use-and-dosages-by-lorraine-shelton.html


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## stephy (Aug 17, 2011)

And make sure her nostrils are clear...don't get dried stuff covering them


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## Stryker (Apr 2, 2007)

I'll say one thing...she's very fortunate to be a healthy cat, despite the Hyper-T.

She's still getting the prednisolone , right? That will help/is helping now by reducing the inflammation.

There are two additional drugs that may help....one is used to thin the mucus, making it easier to get out...we call it an expectorant, in the UK it's a mucolytic (sneezing is great, btw....she's expelling every time....just be prepared to duck!)...in the UK, there's a drug like this used with cats. There isn't an approved one in North America...but, there's one that is used safely in cats...and, it's available over-the-counter. I'll give you the veterinary references for using both the UK (vet approved) product and the OTC product. (remember, they are different chemicals)

In North America, it's Guaifenesin....here's the Vet page on the company's site (halfway down, see: "Treating Cat Cough with Guaifenesin") Welcome to Guaifenesin.org - Veterinary Use

Just as a reference point, here's what's approved in the UK: NOAH Compendium of Animal Medicines: Bisolvon 10mg/g Oral Powder - Further information (on the left there in *green* is a menu of other "tidbits" about it....about a week ago, someone from the UK was on here who used it for a severely congested cat)

Drug #2 that will probably help is a nasal decongestant....I'm going to give you the Veterinary reference afterwards, but, the one that's recommended is Afrazine (chemical name: oxymetazoline)....that brand isn't available in NA, but Afrin is, and it's OTC as well. There may be other brands....you'll probably run all this past your Vet anyway, so take it from there...a pharmacist can offer other options. Here's Afrin: Afrin Severe Congestion Nasal Spray | Afrin Products

There's also an old time remedy for nasal congestion, a nasal aspirator. The original was a simple bulb syringe: PICTURE
The idea is to squeeze and release using the suction to remove mucus. You have to be really careful when releasing the pressure on the bulb...the nose "innards" are super delicate....so, gentle, slow and easy is the way to go. These are available at drug stores. More info here: The Best Nasal Aspirator for your Baby

High humidity will also help - when any of mine has a 'cold', I'll keep them in the smallest room with a warm mist humidifier going all the time and keep the room warm.....it's remarkable, the effects of this. (I wouldn't be using the Vick's...it's been proven as an 'old wives tale', medically useless, probably irritating for cats...but, psychologically helpful for humans.)

The coupage is an excellent treatment - you'd do well to keep it up.

Eating: When my cats won't touch anything else, they'll devour the original pate style (plain meat) Fancy Feast....liver, chicken and, if I must, salmon/cod, sole & shrimp.....

I don't like the idea of 'rotating antibiotics' - why don't/won't they do a culture, then choose the right a/b?

Laurie referenced Doxycycline as a 'typical' a/b for respiratory infection....it IS ALSO available as an injectable (IV, though)....the liquid form needs to be compounded to be palatable. Doxycycline is one of the recommended a/b's in the main veterinary reference I'm going to give you.

Here's a bit about a/b's from there:


> Bacterial bronchopneumonia:
> Treatment of bacterial bronchopneumonia usually includes a protracted course of antibiotics. Ideally, *antibiotics should be selected by culture and sensitivity*. Useful broad-spectrum antibiotics include amoxycillin, cephalosporins, *doxycycline*, trimethoprim-sulpha, and aminoglycosides. Combinations of these drugs may be required. An oxygen enriched environment, fluid therapy, airway humidification, bronchodilators, and daily coupáge may also be helpful.


Note the need for an extended period on a/b's....better pick up one of those probiotics.

The info is on the FelineAsthma.org site...and written by someone with impeccable credentials...it's lengthy...the first half covers URIs, about 1/2 way down the page you'll see "Lower Respiratory Tract Disease in Cats"

They suggest having your Vet read it...certainly, if they won't work with you on the ideas (above) coming from it, perhaps insist that they read it.

OK, here's that article: Feline Asthma & Other Respiratory Disorders

Post back with anything.

Thanks for the picture....a very wise and determined lady in that!


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## jayfry (Jun 17, 2015)

Thank you so much everyone, I'm very taken aback reading everyones thoughts and ideas, in a good way, I didn't think I would get such thoughtful responses. I deeply deeply appreciate them, and my kitty would too if she knew. 

Stryker, do you work in the veterinary field? Just wondering, you have a lot of really helpful information. 

So I wrote down those medicines and will ask the vet about them at her appointment in a couple hrs, Im pretty sure I'll be leaving her there tonight to be on fluids, I need her to have energy. 

The coupage, I'm doing it every couple hrs, everytime I see if she wants to eat or not. I hope thats not excessive. 

The bulb syringe, I actually ordered one online a couple days ago so it should be here today. 

The humidifier, I have it on pretty often, I dont leave it on a room.. I tried that and it literally did nothing after some hrs, so whenever I hear any struggle in her breathing I put it on the floor under wherever shes sleeping, and she moves her head to be in the vapor, she probably knows it makes her feel better, then I take a little piece of tissue and kind of tickle her nose to make her sneeze, shes stubborn, she so blocked up but she never wants to sneeze, so I decided to try and make her. Hope she forgives me for bugging her so much.

I opened some fancy feast this morning and she took a couple little bites, which is better than nothing,thanks for the tip. When all else fails, tuna, fussy cat, fancy feast, her raw food, the other 10+ brands I buy for her now, I have to resort to baby food, sometimes she'll eat it, and I know she can't keep doing this but I'm terrified of her dropping more weight. 

The probiotic, I need to get that still, LDG (or anyone that knows) that renew life you spoke of, was it this one you're talking about: 



and the half a capsule twice daily, is that ok for her size? Can too much hurt her? shes probably around 4 lbs now, I'll see when I get to the vet today. I also ordered a baby scale to monitor her weight, that should come today too. 

And I believe they havent done a culture because they tried but stress level shot up so much they had to abort, she started to hype up her body too much and couldn't handle it, so they decided to try the broad spectrum a/bs first before trying anything invasive on her.

Last, before I leave, anyone have any experience with a nebulizer? I read that its really good for aspiration pneumonia, I'm going to ask the vet about it, they're cheap and it it penetrates the lungs, I read, so if it would indeed help her I'm going to get one right away. I can't watch my little Mi like this, its making me sick watching her suffer. 

Hope all goes well today, we'll see. Thanks again.


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Jenny,
Sending Lots of Prayers for Mia, and lots of (((HUGS))) for you...
We're here for you though all of this...
Sharon


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## Stryker (Apr 2, 2007)

I hope you can pick this one up before you go in.

Last night I was going to suggest (at least) thinking about a feeding tube - there was already a lot in there to "digest" :wink: though.

So, a couple of 'reads' for you...including this


> *Esophagotomy Tube*
> 
> In terms of ease of placement, cost, and effectiveness, one of the best options for long term feeding is an esophagotomy tube. *It does not require specialized equipment or exploratory surgery, and can usually be placed with sedation only.* Serious complications are rare, and usually consist of regurgitation of food if too much is given too rapidly, especially in the first few days of feeding. This problem tends to go away by itself.


That comes from here: Feeding Tubes
(about 1/2 way down)


More background: Cat Force Feeding


And, from one of my favourite Vets, this: Feeding Tubes For Cats by Lisa A. Pierson, DVM :: assisted feeding of cats, feeding sick cats


- be back later


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## LDG (Apr 20, 2012)

Yes, that is the correct probiotic.

As to the nebulizer, you can make one yourself for about $65: HOWTO: Build a nebulizer chamber for your asthmatic pet | Delmartian Technologies LLC

You can use just a saline bag from the vet.

I also second the feeding tube. People tend to get really scared about using these, or the "implications" of them. They are intended for short term use for EXACTLY times like this. You can't syringe feed her because of the congestion and pneumonia. As Dr. Pierson says - _*feeding tubes save lives*_.

Now - for the congestion. I'd build the nebulizer. I would also add to the amazon order

Lactoferrin - Jarrow, 250mg capsules 




Colostrum - NOW brand, 500mg capsules [ame]http://www.amazon.com/NOW-Foods-Colostrum-500mg-Capsules/dp/B0013OQJNY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1435101373&sr=8-1&keywords=NOW+colostrum[/ame]

Transfer Factor Plus (human version) [ame]http://www.amazon.com/Transfer-Factor-Tri-Factor-Formula-capsules/dp/B002QH4T48/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1435101392&sr=8-1&keywords=transfer+factor+plus[/ame]

If you get a tube, getting these into her will be easy. If not, since she's not really eating... IDK what to suggest. The volume of powder is more than you can effectively put in an empty #3 gel cap and pill her. 

When we moved, due to the stress, Chumley (my FIV+ boy) developed a URI so bad he was mouth breathing and blowing bubbles. He was crazy snotty. I used 1/2 cap of the lactoferrin 2x a day, 1/2 the colostrum 2x a day, and 1/4 cap of the transfer factor plus 2x a day, and he was almost all cleared up inside of 3 days. I kept him on all the stuff for a week. (He's a former feral, rescued at "3 or 4" years old. He eats through ANY illness. It's like ... hardwired into him, I think. Knock wood).

And don't forget the S boulardii for the diarrhea. Stopping the dehydration will go a LONG way to helping her feel better. [ame]http://www.amazon.com/Biocodex-Florastor-50-count-250mg/dp/B000NB1OMO/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1435101294&sr=8-2&keywords=florastor[/ame]


As to the probiotics... no you cannot "overdose." The WORST side effect would be ... diarrhea. But you can always start with a smaller dose, and see how she reacts, and work up to the recommended amounts. If she does well with 1/4 cap, but diarrhea gets worse on 1/2 cap, then dial it back to the 1/4 cap. These are things that can be very individual to each cat, there is no "set" amount to use, just averages for what works best in most cats. 

I hope Mia's feeling much better soon!

Oh - on the Baytril. Flowerbelle (7 lbs) was on it for three months due to a middle ear infection (found on MRI). Someone was just asking about it, and wanted to dismiss it due to the risk of blindness. When properly dosed, that isn't *much* of a risk, but there are qualifiers, and it relates to the age and functioning of the kidneys. Just give this a read, so you're familiar with the issues while using Baytril. It is a powerful antibiotic, and she likely needs it. Dr. Shawn's Articles - Blindness in Cats Associated With Antibiotics


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Jenny,
Any update on Mia? I hope there's some improvement...
(((HUGS))) and Healing Prayers for Mia...
Sharon


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## jayfry (Jun 17, 2015)

So update, Mia is at the vet, today will be the third day shes there, not because of any dire matter, but by my choice... she just always seems to feel better when she stays on fluids, and with the antibiotics they give her through the iv. They give her a little stronger antibiotic, I forgot which one, and therefore I don't need to give her them orally, which makes her nauseous. Its heartbreaking either way. I go sit with her everyday and shes so happy, I can tell shes lonely there, it breaks my heart everytime I have to leave her. I can't know how far back she can remember, but I don't want her to think I'm abandoning her like her last owners did. She lived in that little steel shelter cage for a year before my family took her. I want her home but I think pneumonia wise shes better off there, so she'll stay another night, or 2, I don't know. They say she eating everyday, this morning she didn't eat much, and that her congestion is sounding a bit better, obviously she can smell a bit now because shes eating, and her lungs aren't crackling anymore, so I really really hope her pneumonia is coming to an end. I'm not sure at what point to do another xray to see her lungs, I'll ask tomorrow. When we took her in 2 days ago she was 4.2 lbs. I'm starting to think thats literally her frame and organ weight.. poor baby  So shes doing ok right now, at least shes eating, her pneumonia progression is moving along, if she can push through this congestion stage, I think shell be ok. I might keep her on an appetite stimulant for awhile and make her eat more so she puts some weight on.


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Oh Jenny...this has to be so hard for you...
Sending (((HUGS))) and Prayers for Mia...
Sharon


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## Stryker (Apr 2, 2007)

Well, OK ! This lady's on the mend !

I'd say she's better there, too.....and, maybe a little tough on your heartstrings...but, it will also give you a little 'breather'.

I would be bringing in some things from home...something with a very strong scent of myself, perhaps an unlaundered pillow case, a T-shirt, that kind of thing. I've brought along the cat's favourite toys/bed - and, that it helps really does show.

I wouldn't be concerned about Sky feeling abandoned...I doubt that she'll relate shelter days with this - there's too much going on, she's getting lots of attention, the 'atmosphere' is much different....I think that, were she 'feeling' depressed, she'd be in the back corner of her 'cubicle', withdrawn.

I can't see that they'd have her on fluids 24/7 but, if she's hooked up overnight, I would hope that there's overnight staff there....otherwise, you might consider requesting they 'unplug' the IV overnight. Nasty thing can happen when no one's around. One of mine pulled out the IV on one overnight stay, but I've heard of cats entangling themselves....

The fact that her lungs aren't crackling anymore is a sure sign that she's progressing, though, and that's a very good thing. You know, this kind of pneumonia most often does not have a good outcome...so anything to encourage progress is a good thing.

I'd be asking about an appetite stimulant too. I'll give you a reliable link (plain language - yaay!)....a very commonly used one (Mirtazapine) may (has) react/ed poorly with the most common Hyper-T drug, so, read the side effects/interactions sections for sure ! Here you are: Tanya's "Oracle" - Appetite_Stimulants

If she's still on prednisolone, you have to know that it is bound to be having some effect on her appetite...and, remember, that drug needs to be tapered off slowly.

I think you already heard that AP requires a lengthy period to clear - 

I'm curious....remember I said that expectorants are commonly used in the UK and elsewhere...did you happen to ask about using Guaifenesin? My curiosity is about what reaction they may have had to the suggestion.

So, a little time for you to regroup...relax, knowing that she's in good hands, it's working and she's getting better !


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## spirite (Jul 31, 2012)

I'm so glad to hear that the congestion seems to be loosening up a little. Keeping my fingers crossed that she continues to improve and that you can have her back home again soon!


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## jayfry (Jun 17, 2015)

Quick update on mia, so she was in the hospital for 7 days on antibiotics and fluids, and under the vets supervision, and although the house felt oddly empty without her for a week, she came home today, doing "tremendously better."  Her congestion is gone, she ate some food as soon as she came in from the car, went to her water bowl, walked around down stair peeking into all the rooms checkin them out, and curled up in her normal spot for a nap. Everyone at the vet said she been eating like a champ and that shes been doing so great, and I have high hopes that she'll continue to do great. Shes been eating a/d, I'm slowly going to try to wean her back onto her raw food, if she doesn't take to it right away, but I wanted to say thank you to everyone that gave thoughts or suggestions for Mia. I think Mia, as well as I, might have been in worse shape if it weren't for that. Not everything is over with her, and I'll continue with updates/questions that I have throughout this, but I think her hardest point is over. Thank you everyone.  I'm so grateful for everything that got my little Mi home.


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## DebS (Jun 14, 2015)

What wonderful news! Here's to continued recovery for Mia.


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Jenny,
That's AWESOME News!! Yay Mia!! I'm doing a Happy Dance for you guys! 
More (((HUGS))) for you, and Healing Prayers for Mia!
Sharon


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## KsKatt (Jul 6, 2014)

Thank you for sharing such good news! I've been subscribed to this thread from the beginning, even though not saying much. Mia has a great human mom!


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