# I think my cat is a....



## nini0264 (Mar 2, 2010)

Chartreux...here are some pics of him! (The last one is an actual Chartreux to use for comparison) What do you think???


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

A chartreux is a pretty rare breed of cat and it's very unlikely that a cat if unknown origins will have a pedigree. I think you have an adorable DSH.


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## nini0264 (Mar 2, 2010)

He was not a shelter or street cat - he came from two (very wealthy I might add) people who could no longer keep him. My boss was trying to help the couple find him a home and I said I would take him..and I'm glad I did, he is so sweet!
That being said, he looks identical to that breed of cat (as the last comparison pic clearly shows) and also, his meow is not a normal meow like my other kitty - it's a very "small" high pitched mew. Sometimes all he does is chirp...we joke that it sounds like he is rolling his tongue! :lol: Through researching the Chartreux breed - I also found that unusual meow is another key characteristic!
Either way I know all that matters is that he is a beautiful, loving cat. But I wonder if there is some cat breed expert I can take him to in person someday who may be able to tell me for sure...I'm still convinced he is after reading about the breed (and that last picture may as well be him!


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

Since you know where he came from, why not have your boss ask the people who had him? 

No, there is no way to know specifically whether a cat is a particular breed. There are genetic tests for dogs, but as far as I know, they haven't been developed for cats. In most cases characteristics don't vary all that much breed to breed, especially from short haired breed to another short hair...or long haired to long haired.


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## nini0264 (Mar 2, 2010)

Thanks for the information!
I have asked my boss quite a few times actually....he never remembers to ask! I have stopped bothering him about it for the time being (don't want to get on his bad side, haha) but I will ask again down the road and let you know what I find out.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

Genetically, Steely is a black-based cat. He carries no Agouti (aa) gene. Agouti (AA or Aa) is the gene responsible for tabby markings, like how Nisha is marked. Steely also carries the homozygous pair of recessive Dense genes (dd) that dilute his black coloring to blue (gray). He also exhibits minimal White Spotting and I have yet to see a photo of a Chartreaux (or Korat or Russian Blue or British Shorthair) with white markings.
In addition, my research corroborates Doodle's claim that Chartreaux cats *are* very rare and the chances of anyone spending the large amounts of money required to purchase one and allowing that rare and expensive cat outside of their home to breed indiscriminately is highly unlikely. 

There is absolutely no way of knowing what, if any definite breed, most cats are. 

The thing about cat genetics, is all of the genes for every characteristic are "out there" in various combinations. In the early years, geographical isolation kept many cat 'breeds' pure or limited in color and body conformation expression. As people became more mobile and traveled the world, all it took was for someone to become enamored of a cat (_bird, dog, horse, livestock..._), bring a few specimens back home with them and begin breeding them together to create a breed or crossing them with local animals to add their characteristics and create an entirely new breed. Many other general breeds were simply people collecting cats with similar characteristics and selectively breeding and culling until they had a breeding population that bred true every time.

Examples of this would be ‘color breeds’ like the Siamese cat and the 'blue' cats; British Shorthair, Chartreaux, Korat and Russian Blue. All of these breeds were deliberately bred to *keep* particular traits, which in turn *eliminated* 'wild-card' traits until the cats always bred true because certain genetics were bred out of the population.
All Siamese cats are homozygous (_matched gene pair_) for the recessive (_needs 2 copies to express_) pointed gene. The Meezers AND the Blue cats have also been selectively bred to eliminate the agouti gene. Agouti is the gene responsible for making a cat's tabby pattern be readily visible. All cats carry a version of the tabby gene (_Classic - blotched, Abyssinian - ticked and Mackerel - striped, broken striped and spotted_) but without the agouti gene, they will present as a solid colored cat. Additionally, in the case of the 'blues', they have been selectively bred to be homozygous for the recessive "dense" gene, which dilutes black coats to blue.
Some people began to breed agouti back into the Siamese breed to create “Lynx Point”, with tabby markings on their points. A new breed category was created to classify them called “Colorpoint”; which includes Lynx, the Reds, Tortoiseshells and their dilute versions.

Tortoiseshell is remarkable because the cat carries both black (O) and red (o) on her pair of XX genes. Females are XX and can carry a color on each X gene. Males are XY and only carry color on the X gene. This is why male calicos are rare because they would have to be a genetic oddity with XXY. Tortie/Torbie cats with White Spotting are commonly called “calico”, especially if their markings have definite patches of black, red and white. When the black and red are ‘marbled together’, that is called Tortoiseshell.
Torties do not carry agouti. Torties who do are called Torbies. Tortoiseshell + Tabby = Torbie. Agouti only affects *black* hair and has no effect on red hair. All red cats will show the countershading of their tabby pattern. Black-based cats can also show countershading, but it is sometimes difficult to see. 

So, while there are things I *can* tell about a cat's genetic make-up, there is no way to determine what, if any, breeds influenced them. With Siamese points and Persian smush-faces, it is *easy* to see what breed influenced them, but in general it is impossible to tell because all of these genes that influence color, markings, characteristics and body type are out there in many, _many_, combinations. Dogs are a little easier to distinguish contributing breeds in a mutt, but cats haven't changed body-types (_body, muzzle, ears, et cetera..._) as distinctly as dogs have.
heidi =^..^=


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

Heidi n Q said:


> He also exhibits minimal White Spotting and I have yet to see a photo of a Chartreaux (or Korat or Russian Blue or British Shorthair) with white markings.
> In addition, my research corroborates Doodle's claim that Chartreaux cats *are* very rare and the chances of anyone spending the large amounts of money required to purchase one and allowing that rare and expensive cat outside of their home to breed indiscriminately is highly unlikely.


The breed standard does indicate that a Charteux with white spotting is disqualified from being shown, so it does happen within the breed.

I think the thought here is that this wealthy couple bought a purebred cat and can no longer care for it so they gave it away, as opposed to being a situation where the cat got out to breed. 

The other thing I don't see here (but it may just be the photos) is the intense eye color associated with the Chartreux. 

In any case, as we've both said, there's really no way to tell...unless the original owners are contacted and can confirm and/or provide papers.


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## nini0264 (Mar 2, 2010)

Thank you all for such great detailed information!
I have a question....Now, you said Steely Dan did not have the AA gene, that gives markings much like my Nisha. The funny thing is, he does have some rings around his tail - does that mean he does have a bit of tabby? And even if he does, what does that mean? 

I actually did find some pics of Chartreux that did have white patches when I had researched the breed, also. 
The second to last pic was the best I could do for trying to get a high quality pic of his eyes, they are a pretty copper!

Lastly, can any kind of cat have that unique type of meow? I've heard my friends describe it as almost like a bell, it is so high pitched and delicate sounding. Also, his chirps are pretty uncommon, My Nisha chirps, but it sounds nothing like Steely Dan!

Again, thanks for all the wonderful insight.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

I've had probably close to 60 cats come through my doors (_20 of our own, approx 40 fosters_) in the last 15yrs or so and each has their own unique sound and way of communicating. I've NEVER had any cat sound like another though plenty meow'd, trilled, chirped, merped and warbled with many other sound variations thrown in for good measure.

The rings you see on his tail are the visible indications of his tabby pattern, but without agouti they won't display as obviously as Nishi's pattern whose markings ARE readily visible because of agouti. 
What you are seeing is something I would call countershading.


> Agouti is the gene responsible for making a cat's tabby pattern be readily visible. All cats carry a version of the tabby gene (Classic - _blotched_, Abyssinian - _ticked_ and Mackerel - _striped, broken striped and spotted_) but without the agouti gene, they will present as a solid colored cat.
> Agouti only affects *black* hair and has no effect on red hair. All red cats will show the countershading of their tabby pattern. Black-based cats can also show countershading, but it is sometimes difficult to see.


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## nini0264 (Mar 2, 2010)

Thanks again for such great explanations! And I have to add it's such a wonderful thing that you fostered so many kitties 
I would like to do that when I actually have my own home, but I have a feeling I'd end up keeping all of them... 8O 

I do agree that each cat has his own noises, the many cats I have been around all my life never had the same voice - you are very right - I just have never heard anything close to Steely Dan's noises, haha! I must try to capture his meows on video sometime for everyone to hear!


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

nini0264 said:


> I must try to capture his meows on video sometime for everyone to hear!


Can you do that? I'd *love* to hear him! I wish I had voice recordings of our kitties who have passed away. _I felt their voices were so unique and I know I'll never hear them again, except in my memories, which is okay._


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## nini0264 (Mar 2, 2010)

Sure, I don't see why not! Either on video or, on microphone to mp3. (My boyfriend and I are musicians and I sing, so we have recording equipment in our apartment.) The biggest obstacle would be getting him to do it while the "clock" is ticking...and me remembering to actually do it, haha. But I will definitely post it when I do. 
I wish I had video of my cat Oreo who just recently passed away last November. He was 17 and I had him since I was 10. I miss him all the time. He was really a special guy.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

nini0264 said:


> I miss him all the time. He was really a special guy.


 atback I know what you mean...


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## Einherjar (Feb 10, 2010)

Most likely a Domestic Short Hair or mixed cat like said above, unless you knew where the cat came from exactly.

Pretty cat though btw, i've had a grey kitten that looked like that at one point.


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## KittyMonster (Nov 8, 2009)

Probably not a Chartreux, but he and my Mak could definitely be cousins!








Just a couple of pretty blue boys with a handsome white bowtie! :luv


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## nini0264 (Mar 2, 2010)

He does look like he could be Steely Dan's cousin! How cute


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## cliffordcatt (Mar 16, 2010)

Well all cats have some purebred in them somewhere, and you may not know what it is! Some characteristics may not even show. I mean a cat could have a persian great great grandfather and he wont have a smooshed face.

If your really convinced he is a chartreux cat, maybe one of his grandparents were!


hes a very beautiful cat


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## bluemilk (Oct 3, 2005)

Chatreux or no,he's still L'adorable!!!


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