# Neighbor Cat and her kittens



## Rook (Nov 3, 2014)

Hi all! I introduced myself yesterday but wanted to tell the story that brought me here, and this seemed like the appropriate section for it (if I was wrong, I apologize! Learning a new forum is always a bit confusing at first ).

In early September, I noticed that my neighbor's cat looked a bit like she swallowed a cantaloupe. I thought she'd already been spayed (because I've never known anyone who didn't get their female cat spayed before kicking her outside due to 'allergies' that I'm fairly certain the mom doesn't have), but apparently I was wrong. She's a tiny little girl, barely 14 months old, and was very underweight. I went over and had a chat with the neighbors (they're not from here and are of a culture that doesn't see pets the same way we do). They agreed that the mama needed to be spayed as soon as possible after this litter. I asked what their plans were for the kittens - they said they'd take them to the shelter like they did the last litter. :fust Now, I volunteered at our county shelter for 8 years - it's run by very nice people who truly do their best for the animals that come in. But it's still a shelter, and many kittens who enter the shelter get sick and/or don't make it out. 

I told my neighbors that no way were they taking these guys to the shelter - I'd figure something out. I got in touch with my friend - we volunteered at the shelter together and when she retired, she moved to the country and opened a small rescue. She's the kindest, nicest, most generous person I know. I asked her for advice and she offered to take in the kittens and adopt them out. I was so relieved! I only had to keep them contained and socialized until they were weaned and then she'd get them fixed and find them new homes. I brought my XL wire dog crate over to my neighbors, gave them a bunch of towels I got from the greyhound rescue (I volunteer there and when they learned about the kittens-to-be, they gave me towels), a few cans of cat food, and explained that mama and babies needed to be contained at all times. They seemed to understand, so I left and told them to ask me if they had any questions.

A couple weeks later on September 26, he came to the door and said that the kittens arrived. I rushed over - mama kitty had 4 beautiful little babies! I checked every couple of days to make sure that everyone seemed well. Two weeks after that, the son ran my doorbell at 10 pm and asked if I'd seen mama or kittens. I told him I hadn't and asked why she wasn't in the crate. He said she didn't like it, so he left the door open for her. Mama moved the kittens and no one could find them. I told him to look everywhere and let me know when he found them. I went out the next day and poked around their yard while no one was home, but couldn't find anyone.

A week later, he said they were under his house - he heard the meowing. I told him that was great and that he needed to get under there and get them out and to let me know when he did.

A week after that, I hadn't heard anything, so I asked him again. He said that his parents decided mama must have moved the kittens under there for a reason and that they should leave them be. I would have argued, but mama kitty got a squirrel just then and didn't kill it. It kept trying to bite her so I had him take the cat away and I brought the squirrel to the vet (they weren't optimistic for the poor little guy). 

Two days later, on Sunday October 26, exactly a month after the babies were born, I woke up with one thought: "I have to get those kittens _today_." I got up, had breakfast, and went over to the neighbor. I told the mom that I needed to get the kittens out from under their house and she said "Okay, whatever." He went under and came out a few minutes later with a fuzzy grey kitten. Her left eye was stuck shut and covered in mud and her nose was caked in dried mud. I cleaned her up and tucked her in my jacket. He went back under and said he only saw one other kitten but he couldn't catch it.

Have I mentioned yet that I'm not a cat person? I've never had a cat and my only experience with kittens was helping a friend who fostered a litter. I say this so you understand just how out of my depth I felt. I did my best picking out the essentials at Walmart. I didn't want to keep mama kitty inside while I was sure there was another kitten out there, so the little kitten and I were inseparable all evening. I gave her KMR when she was hungry and she snuggled in a fleece blanket on my lap while I watched TV. She spent the night in a cardboard box in my room and came to work with me the next day so we could make our morning vet appointment.

She had ulcers on both eyes and a nasty URI. I wanted to call her Carter (after Samantha Carter from Stargate) but the vet insisted on a more feminine name, so I stuck her with Sam. We went home with eye ointment, amoxicillin, a lysine drug, and a trap for the other kitten. As soon as I got home, I put on my yard work clothes and went spelunking under the neighbor's house. I bruised my knees, banged into their vents, and got tangled in a cable, but couldn't find the kitten. I didn't even see a kitten. I set the trap with smelly canned food, brought mama kitty inside for the night, and said a prayer. I checked a couple hours later and the trap was empty.

When I went to check the trap the next morning, I was relieved to hear this adorable mewing before I even saw the trap. I carried the kitten over to my house, checked him out (I did a quick check and guessed boy), and put him in with mama and Sam. I stuck him with the name Dean (because if I have a Sam, I need a Dean, because Supernatural!), reset the trap, and went to work. 

No other kitties appeared in the trap - so only two out of the four made it. Sam and Dean and their mom spent the week in my sunroom. Sam bounced back beautifully - her right eye was almost completely clear and her left eye, the one with the worst ulcer, was finally not stuck shut all the time and looked to be healing as well. Towards the end of the week, they started bouncing and playing. On Friday night, they took their first tastes of mama kitty's canned food. On Saturday, the greyhound rescue gave me a bunch of cat food - canned and dry - that they'd received as donations. They have a resident cat-testing cat that helps them determine if the greyhounds are going to be labeled "cat friendly", "cat trainable", or "absolutely no cats" (he's an awesome kitty that they rescued off the side of the road). He's getting fat off all the donations so they gave some to me for mama kitty. 

On Sunday, the kittens and mama went to a new foster home and I learned that poor Dean is, in fact, a girl. Oops! The foster family has a huge basement as their foster space and it's like kitty heaven. Mama kitty, of course, wasn't so thrilled - she took off as soon as the crate door opened. But the babies were having a blast exploring. They might get a foster sibling - someone found a four or five week old abandoned kitten and if Lorena will accept it, Sam and Dean will get a friend.

I'd been going back and forth on whether I should adopt Sam or not, and when my friend told me she found a new foster home, I nearly started crying because I didn't want them to go! (They had to, unfortunately - I had a trip scheduled before this whole rescue operation started and couldn't cancel on such short notice.) I asked her if I could put a hold on Sam and adopt her when she's ready and she said I absolutely could. 

So that's why I'm here - I'm a complete cat novice. I know absolutely nothing about living with a cat. I've been doing research since I officially placed a hold on Sam and I've learned a lot, but I'm a member of a couple other forums (a rat forum and a greyhound forum) and they've proved to be great places to gather knowledge, so I searched for a kitty forum and found this one. I'll try to upload a few pictures because the babies are just adorable 

Sam and mama kitty the first day they were in the sunroom:









Dean (I love her nose!):









Sam is snuggly:









I apologize for the length of this - I tend to get wordy. :roll:


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

OMG! Rook, what an adventure, trying to help these guys! Whew!!
Glad you were able to save mama and two babies!:thumbup::thumbup:
That's a Labor of Love...and to think, you're not even a "cat person"!!
Sounds to me like you're in denial...especially since it now sounds like Sam will be coming to live with you!
The kittens are adorable! 
Sharon


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## ezmeray (Nov 8, 2012)

That's fantastic that you made such a difference! Also that's kinda funny about the greyhound rescue cat eating too much (it's a cool idea though, to have a tester cat).


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## Jetlaya67 (Sep 26, 2012)

Aww they are adorable! Thank you for going out of your way to help mama and babies.


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## ashlee18 (May 21, 2014)

That is a great story with a wonderful ending for all.

I personally am not a cat person either. I have two dogs that are my entire world. My one cat Rascal lives with my mom because she loves him so much. I wouldnt have left my dog though. I have a cat named Merlin now who is currently sitting on my shoulders. I don't love him as much as my dogs but he is definitely growing on me. I know with time that they will all be equals in my heart.


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## spirite (Jul 31, 2012)

Hi Rook, 

Wow, from your actions, one would never guess that you weren't a cat person! That was really going above and beyond to try to save these kittens, and it's wonderful that you were able to save two. How frustrating that it might have been possible to save the other two as well, if your neighbors thought the same way you did, and the same way we all do here.

You are an amazing person to be willing to go crawling around under a house - not even yours! - in order to rescue a kitten. And you're not a cat person! (But just wait...)

They're both such adorable little fuzzballs! Look at little Sam nestled so comfortably inside your jacket.  Please do post more pics when you can!


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## Rook (Nov 3, 2014)

I got to visit them today and it's amazing how much they've grown in a week! They're now bouncing all over the place and eating canned food almost exclusively. So cute. And they have their foster friend, who was almost feral and is very hissy. Mama kitty isn't too sure about her, but they're doing alright overall.

People keep telling me that if I'm getting one kitten, I should really think about adopting them both so that they can keep each other company and play while I'm away. I'm definitely open to this, but a friend just told me that adopting two of the same sex from the same litter isn't a good idea because they tend to get territorial... Is that true? She has two males from the litter she fostered (they're identical!). Sammy and Dean (or Deana...haha) play together and romp around and it does seem a shame to split them up, especially since Sam would be all alone while I'm at work all day. Since Sam will be my first kitty, I'm trying to make this process as simple as possible. I fully expect some hiccups and I'm ready for them, but I just want to do whatever will make this as stress-free as possible for both of us. If that means only adopting Sam, fine. If that means adopting Dean too, also fine (and double the cute!). Thought I'd turn here for some advice (already! I didn't expect to be asking questions until just before they came home :lol...

A couple pictures:


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## cat owner again (Dec 14, 2012)

Well my daughter has 3 male brothers or they thought they were brothers. They were all found at one time. One is a tuxedo, one orange tabby and the other looks Siamese like. They were all the same size when she got them. Anyway they get along just find and in small living space. I think they had a few spats (nothing serious) when they were younger. Now they are 6-7 years old and just kind of go their own way but do sleep together now and then.


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## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

As long as you get them neutered you'll most likely be fine (there are some cases where grown siblings won't get along, but IME those are few and far between). I'd vote for getting both as well


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## Gandalf&Endor (Jun 9, 2014)

I have two neutered male kitties, They are about 8 months apart. There are no territorial issues. There was the initial tense introduction to each other. For you it's easier because your kitties are litter mates. They are already used to each other. All you have is introduction of your home to the kittens.


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Rook,
I'm all for adopting them together!! The socialization will go much easier, as they'll help teach each other some cat-etiquette!! As siblings, they should do well together! 
They are both adorable! 
Sharon


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## Rook (Nov 3, 2014)

Thanks everyone! That's what I was thinking but I wanted to make sure.


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## Dumine (Jun 30, 2014)

That is not true at all. It very much boils down to personality. My Uncle has two cats that are both female and both spayed and from the same litter. They are almost 17 years old now and still going strong.
Two very different personalities, but luckily neither very territorial.


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## Cheddar (Jul 11, 2014)

What an awesome read!! You did an incredible thing for mam cat and her babies. Sad that the other 2 didn't make it, but you never know, they might show up later on. I have 2 male siblings. They are almost 6 months old and no issues as of yet. I do find that having 2 makes life super easy. In all honesty, I don't have to do much but cuddle, and clean the litter boxes. They keep each other busy and tired with play-time. Plus, I am like you, I ended up with 2 kittens and having absolutely no experience with cats. This place is awesome, i'm glad you found us.


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## Rook (Nov 3, 2014)

I guess now I need to ask my "How do I cat?" questions! So...How do I cat? I know there are things I'll need, and this is my (ever growing) list:

-a cat-proof room (because aren't you supposed to keep them in a smaller space when they're young before giving them full run of the house?)
-two litter boxes (at least - though a third would probably be a good idea if I can find a spot for it!) and the litter
-food (duh)
-food and water bowls (is ceramic good, or should I go with stainless steel?)
-toys! Any preferred kinds?
-scratching post/cat tree (I brought my dad to the store to shop for cat trees [because they're huge and I'm not strong enough to lift one] and he took one look at them and said "No way - I can build that for less!" so this weekend we're going to build one :roll
-grooming stuff - brushes and nail clippers? I should get them used to being handled and brushed and nail-clipped while they're young, right? What about baths?
-carriers - just one while they're little or should I start with two? Should I get a big one for both of them or two small ones? 
-I suppose a fluffy kitty bed or two would be a good idea as well
-What about treats?

What am I missing? I know there must be something (probably a lot of somethings)!


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## builder (Sep 2, 2012)

Oh wow I love kittens, they are so cute.
I’m probably not the one for advice, but I don’t allow my cats outside and other than that I just let them free to do whatever pleases them. Of course I have to keep the litter box maintained so there aren’t any accidents. It seems like the more I do for them the more the find their own places to sleep and have their own ideas for toys to play with.


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## Rook (Nov 3, 2014)

Oh, they're definitely not going outside! I'm toying with the idea of making a harness/leash for them so that they CAN experience the great outdoors but I haven't decided yet. These two will be strictly indoor kitties.


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## spirite (Jul 31, 2012)

Aww, congratulations on the totally unexpected additions to your family!  

It seems like you've got everything covered: 

-Ceramic is fine, as is glass. Mine don't like stainless, but most kitties are just fine with it. The noise made by dry food freaks them out.
-Foodwise, if you can feed all canned, it's much better for their health than dry food. 
-Baths: don't bother, unless you like getting completely soaked and having fur stick to you everywhere, plus wet pawprints all over the house. 8O Cats do keep themselves very clean, so unless Sam and Dean(a ;P) actually get dirty, baths will just make all of you miserable.
-Nails: Oh yes, definitely get them used to being handled, having their paws handled, so that it's not a big deal to keep the claws trimmed. If you also have scratchers, you should never have a problem with them scratches places you don't want them to be scratching.
-Toys: a variety, but they're pretty readily entertained with things like the caps of milk/juice/water containers. You can buy these crinkle balls, but you can also wad up a ball of aluminum or tissue paper - works just as well.  A couple of wand toys are a must. DaBird is a favorite. Some kitties like the laser pointer too.
-Carriers: I don't know. I think I'd get two separate ones, and big enough that they can grow into them, so that you don't have to buy new ones in a year or two. 
-Treats: if you want. I think we're the ones who always want to give them treats. Not sure that they'd ever know they exist if we didn't give them, lol. But they can be useful if you need to pill or if you want to train your kitties.
-Harness: I used to take one of my kitties out in a harness. She LOVED it. The other refused to move the minute I put it on. 

I'll add one thing: kitten-proofing. Things like cords on blinds, any other kind of cord, anything that's string-y - cats apparently can't bring string-y things back up and have to ingest it, and that can do all sorts of damage internally.

I'm sure others will have good suggestions for you, but I don't see that you're missing anything major!


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## Rook (Nov 3, 2014)

Thanks! That's all really helpful. What kind of canned food is pretty good (and relatively affordable)?

Also, what sort of carriers should I get? Those had plastic kind, or the soft fabric kind? And how big? I had the smallest size carrier for my rats and I wouldn't have put any more than my 1 pound boy in one of them (he got the pink one :lol. The other two could have fit in it, but the space seemed so small with my fat boy in it that I wouldn't have tried (plus, they never learned to get along, so there's that). I assume those are too small for a full grown kitty, right? So I should probably go one size up... Can I start with one carrier while they're still pretty small and then get a second one when they start to get bigger? 

I have a few questions about how to acclimate a kitty to the home...Should I go ahead and ask those here or start a new thread elsewhere (and if so, where)? Learning to navigate a new forum is always so confusing! :lol:


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## Rook (Nov 3, 2014)

*Things to do before bringing kittens home?*

Hi folks! I'm adopting two kittens and I'm feeling really out of my depth because I've never had a cat before. I hope this is the right forum section for general cat questions and advice (I wasn't sure - please move me where I need to be if I was wrong ).

They're probably coming home with me in a week or two, when they're weaned and spayed. I'll be spending the next couple of weeks prepping everything - kitten proofing, buying all the necessary supplies, etc. I have a couple questions for you experienced cat folks, though!

When it comes to bringing kittens into your home, is it best to keep them in one room for a couple days, or just a couple hours until they've used the litterbox and know where it is (and bring them back to it periodically so they're aware of the layout and how to get there)? They were at my house for a week a couple weeks ago, so they're relatively familiar with me and how everything smells here, and they did get to come inside (they were being housed in my sunroom) for some food and to give mom a break from them, but they were tiny so were never left unattended. Currently they're being fostered in a huge basement, so they're used to having a ton of space to explore. I don't have a bathroom big enough to keep them in (my bathroom is tiny - there's absolutely no room for a litter box) but I do have a TV/sewing/craft room I could use. 

I was planning to get three litter boxes (figure with two cats, three should be fine, right?) and place them strategically throughout the house. They're currently using Tidy Cats at the foster home, so I was going to stick with that for now. Good plan?

Feeding... I've heard that canned food is better than dry food. Is there a highly recommended but still affordable kind of canned food for kittens? I tried Googling but everyone seems to have different opinions on food (much like with dogs...everyone swears by something different). Also, what does a good feeding schedule look like? In the morning and evening? Or periodically throughout the day? 

I'm making a cat tree this weekend (was just going to buy one but my dad saw them and said "Oh, I can make that for less!" and got really excited :lol, but I was thinking I'd also get a couple scratchers for various places in the house. 

How do you teach cats not to get on the table? Is that a losing battle, or is there a good way to teach them that the kitchen table is off-limits? 

Also, I'd appreciate any general cat-acclimation tips. I'd know exactly what to do if I was adopting dogs, but I've never lived with a cat, so I feel like I'm starting completely from scratch and it's all a bit overwhelming!


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## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

How old will they be when you bring them home? 'Weaned' means different things to different people. Ideally kittens should stay with their mother and siblings until 12 weeks, but 8-10 weeks will work. Many 'breeders' ("We had two cats and they made babies" people - not actual responsible breeders) get the kittens gone at 6 weeks...which does not set you up for success. It's a heck of a lot more work.

Keeping them confined for the first few days, depending on their comfort level is best. Have a kitten room set up, and plan for them to be in it whenever you're asleep or out for the first few months. Kittens are naughty and will get into all sorts of trouble - it's safer for them to be confined to one kitten-proofed room when you can't supervise to begin with. Your TV room will be fine, as long as you kitten-proof it!!!

Three is the correct number of boxes for 2 cats. That being said, in you live in a multi-story home I would suggest at least one box per floor until the kittens hit about 6 months. Having a box close at paw will encourage good habits for their whole life. If you have a smaller, or single floor home, then just space the boxes out as you were planning to.

As far as litter goes, I don't recommend clumping clay litter with kittens. Occasionally they'll eat it (or they'll play in the water, then go potty and become 'breaded kittens' then lick it off...) and the clay will clump in their little bellies, possibly causing a blockage. Because of this I prefer the corn or wheat based litters. World's Best and Swheat Scoop are both clumping litters, but safe for little ones. (I like them better than clay anyways, but that's just IMO)

Canned food is best, yes (well, raw is better, but not everyone is up for that). Many of the others here can suggest good brands (I feed raw, so I'll keep my nose out of it  ) but for feeding schedules kittens should be fed 3-4 times/day until about 6 months. After that switch to twice a day. Some adult cats do best on three meals a day too, depends on your kitties.

Having quite a few scratchers is a great idea - get a variety! I've got: two cat trees in the living room with a mix of carpet and sisal textures and a variety of directions to scratch in, a boot mat they're allowed to claw (on the floor, rippled short carpet texture), a sisal post in the basement, another little cat tree in Torri's room, and 2 cardboard scratchers that migrate around the livingroom. Different kitties like a variety of textures, so try a few different things. The more you give them the less likely they are to go for the furniture.

As for the rest of it - I always read out loud to new pets, especially while you're feeding them. That way they're getting used to your voice, associating it with yummy food, and your eyes are focused away from them which will help if they're anxious.

Other than that the best thing I would do is start handling them right away. Once a day pick up a kitten, give it some lovin', and feel it's whole body so it gets used to those sensations. You may need to give the kitten a toy to chomp one while you do this, but make a point of checking their eyes, ears, nose, mouth, and paws in particular. This will help with nail trimming, vet visits, and necessary grooming. If one is long haired start brushing right away! Kittens don't typically get too knotted, but that's exactly when you want to practice with the brush - when it won't hurt!

Last thing - never put down a fussy kitten! Whenever you're holding them, for whatever reason, wait until they settle down and calm a bit before you set them down. It doesn't have to be long, just a second or two of calm, but if you set them down when they fuss they'll learn to struggle and that will make your life way harder than it needs to be.


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## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

I just replied to your other post, and redirected here after 

I always got for hard kennels - the soft ones seem nice but are absolutely useless as far as protection goes. IMO that's half their job, so it's a waste of money, IMO. I do think they're necessary though - cats should be in kennels in the car and vet clinic for their own safety. When you get one leave it out with a towel in it so the kittens can nap and play in it. If they're used to the kennel it will be a safe space at the vets, rather than the scary devil-box, lol.

As far as size and how many...I do technically have enough kennels to fit all my pets in an emergency...when I take the boys to the vet I put them both in a med dog crate. They get along really well and cry if I separate them, so I do use one. If it was an emergency though both boys would have their won kennel (no idea how long they would have to be confined, safer the have them apart - plus the big kennel is for the guinea pigs in an emergency).

Get a kennel that's bigger than you think you'll need. I have one that's 'cat' sized and the only one who I would fit in it is Torri - who is 6.5 lbs. The rest of my cats would be super cramped in there. I think the min size for a single adult or two kittens should be this: Amazon.com : Petmate 41034 Compass Plastic Pets Kennel with Chrome Door, Metallic White/Black : Pet Carrier : Pet Supplies (in the 24x16x15 inch model)


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## Rook (Nov 3, 2014)

They were born September 26, so (if I counted right...which is always debatable :lol they're 7 weeks old today. 

I'm definitely going to kitten proof - it's going to take me probably an entire weekend, but it'll get done! I live in a one-story house, so I'll just have to space out the boxes. I believe their foster mom is using clumping Tidy Cats - should I switch away from it or will it be okay to use that kind since they're already used to it? I'd like to try one that might have less dust (I had rats before and all the beddings were so dusty!).

I like the idea of reading out loud to them while they're eating - I'll have to do that! They should get separate bowls, correct? Seems obvious but I want to make sure. I feel like I'm asking a bunch of stupid questions but hey - I'd rather ask than do something wrong!

Thank you for all the helpful information! :smile:


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## Rook (Nov 3, 2014)

Thanks! I like the plastic ones too - always feel more secure to me. I'll get one for now and add another when they start to get too big to fit in together comfortably.


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## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

The only dumb questions are those left unasked, IMO 

Personally I would switch them, it's just safer. However, if they haven't started chowing down on it at this point you'll likely be safe. A good way to switch is to bring home a big baggie of the used litter when you pick them up, and sprinkle that over whatever you decide to use. It'll give them a hint about what the new stuff is for and make an easy transition.

I would give them separate bowls...but they'll probably eat out of the same one/each other's/etc. *shrugs* as long as it seems like they are both getting enough and no one starts guarding the food bowls you'll be fine. But I would offer 2 bowls.


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## Rook (Nov 3, 2014)

I'm back with more questions that would be dumb if unasked 

I've gone into just about every store here. Walmart, PetSmart, PetCo, PetSense, Target, Big Lots, etc - and I leave empty handed every time. There's just _so much_ and so many options that I get confused, befuddled, frustrated, discouraged, and I start to question whether someone who gets this lost in the cat aisles should even be allowed to have a cat. 8-O 

Toys I can pretty much handle (except what is Da Bird and where do you find it? Everyone recommends it but I haven't seen one in any of the stores I've been in!). 

It's the litter box, litter, and food that I'm confused by. Of course, my goal is to feed mostly canned because it's better, but I will have to use some dry food too, because it's not feasible for my wallet to buy a completely canned diet (yet!). Would a grain-free food be a good choice for dry food? And what constitutes a good canned food? 

For litter, I'm going to start with Tidy Cats (since that's what they're using now) and possibly switch over to Swheat Scoop. But how in the world are there so many litter box choices? Everywhere I go there are different kinds - covered boxes, igloos, deep boxes, shallow boxes, boxes with a lip to prevent a lot of kicked out litter... How do I choose? 

Collars. Do I need to get collars for them? And what kind of nail clippers should I get? The ones that look like scissors, or the bulky, frightening one with thick handles? :lol:

I'm not sure I've ever felt more confused about anything in my life.


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## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

Happy to help!

Da' bird: Amazon.com : GoCat Da Bird Pull Apart Rod and Bird Cat Feather Toys, Assorted Colors : Pet Feather Toys : Pet Supplies

Here's some of my personally recommendations - a lot of cat care products are things you figure out work for you and your kitty over time. So the best I can do is give you my impressions.

Food: Grain free dry is the best dry you can get. Others will have to suggest brands, but a search done on the forum will likely give you some good options.
For wet food most people go with a rotation of various flavors, brands, and textures. Basically - grain free is best, but specifically avoid corn, wheat, soy, 'animal' anything, unspecified meat-products in general, digest meal, artificial colors, and fish. That is definitely a lot to remember, but some good brands to start with are EVO and wellness. Again, a quick browse of some nutrition threads will give you some good brands to start with.

For litter you're on the right track. No worries. But do get unscented litter if there's a choice.

Litter boxes: since you know your kitten will grow don't get a tiny little box. Get something with a shallow enough entrance that a young kitten can easily get in, but other than that it's no big deal. Really, pick what you like.
I have two of the biggest store bought litter boxes (that are too small for half my cats, lol), with deep sides and a hood. I take the doors off because my cats all hate them and they keep the odor trapped (like a smelly bathroom, yuck).
I also have three HUGE rubbermaid tubs that I cut a hole into - these are the preferred litter boxes by a LOT. They have lots of room, can have nice deep litter, and are more private.

Collars - my preference for kittens is a harness, but I'm in the minority here. Harnesses, IMO give you an easy way to grab the kitten if you need to, and more to hold onto when you're holding them. Bonuses in my book. Just like any collar the kitten will be a little funny about wearing it for the first hour or so - then it won't bug them. So it's up to you.
If you do get a collar make sure it's a breakaway one!

Nail clippers, I like ones that look like this: [ame]http://www.amazon.com/Four-Paws-Magic-Coat-Clipper/dp/B00106TAEU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1416423642&sr=8-1&keywords=cat+nail+clippers[/ame] They're small, and have a tiny blade. It takes some practice, but it's much easier to use them for tiny kittens than the gigantic dog ones.

Overall...relax.  The main things you need are love, patience, and time. The rest is 'gravy'


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## spirite (Jul 31, 2012)

Rook, I know what you mean about the choices. I've spent a lot of time looking at litter boxes, carriers, food, etc. and then ended up not buying anything. 

I have pretty standard litterboxes - I think PetMate, bought at Petco. They're the kind that have a place for a filter on top, and a sort of swinging door in front. I throw the doors out and don't use filters. I've used World's Best for years. I like that a) it's natural - and as librarychick said, sometimes you get "breaded" kitties, so at least they're just ingesting corn, and b) the clumps are flushable. But people here have had different experiences - I think it's you either love it or you hate it. It can last a very long time, but it does get dusty, and the longer you wait between complete changes, the dustier it'll get. 

For food, some of the popular, high-quality brands that are grain-free (or at least have grain-free lines - many brands have "regular" and grain-free lines) are Wellness, Merrick, Nature's Variety, Blue Buffalo, Evo, Dave's. Dave's you'd probably find at local independent stores. It's one of the very few brands/flavors that both of my girls will eat. TikiCat and Weruva are also popular - I think they're grain-free, but I'm not sure. There are - as you've seen - tons of others...

I feed Merrick's Purrfect Bistro and Dave's for canned (along with the evil Fancy Feast), and Nature's Variety Instinct and Blue Buffalo dry. There are members who aren't fans of Blue Buffalo for the company's lack of transparency about their ingredients/nutritional info. To me, it's a non-issue, because it was the only high-quality dry that one of mine would eat. 

I'd definitely buy a variety and try to get them to accept as much variety as you can - both in flavors and textures. That way, you don't end up with supremely fussy kitties later. Trust me, it's a pain having one of those...


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## Rook (Nov 3, 2014)

Thanks for the suggestions! I think I've finally settled on what kind of litter box I want to get. I still need to take a good long look through all the food available at Petco...So many options! 

They're getting spayed today (I think - it's the last I heard from the rescue) and will come home with me after Thanksgiving. I'll be gone an entire day for the holiday and didn't feel comfortable bringing them home before, having them here a couple days, then disappearing.


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## spirite (Jul 31, 2012)

That sounds like a good plan. They probably would have been a little freaked out by all of the changes if you'd brought them home now. 

If you find that being in the aisles makes your head spin, you can always go to the manufacturers' websites, or to online retailers like chewy or wag, to look at the ingredients and get reviews. That might at least narrow your options a bit so that you're not going down the aisles reading labels for hours (been there, done that...). 

We get to live vicariously through your experiences as a new kitty owner!


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## Rook (Nov 3, 2014)

I only have a little pre-kitten shopping left! Today I bought litter boxes, two little collars, and a bag of grain-free food. I compared the ingredients in it to Blue Buffalo and they were much the same (varying by only a little in placement and wording, but the first two or three ingredients were nearly identical), so I went with Simply Nourish (I think that's what it's called). I do plan to switch up their food, so when this bag gets low I'll pick up another one - probably Blue Buffalo. I asked my aunt for canned food recommendations and she said her vet told her that Fancy Feast is one of the best. Now, I don't know much, but I feel like I've picked up from this forum that Fancy Feast is, in fact, not the best? Is there a good, yet affordable (i.e. preferably less than $0.75 a can) canned food?

The babies start their two week trial on Saturday. They're not spayed yet - too small! - but will be when they're big enough. Their mama was going to be spayed and returned to the neighbors, but when I brought over the vet form and asked her for the $60 it would cost, she said that they started to worry about their kitty outside in the cold and decided to rehome her. They signed her over yesterday, so she'll be going up for adoption once she's vetted. (I also promised that I'd tell them when mama kitty finds a new home and that her kids could come over and visit the kittens occasionally so they're not completely cat-less.) I'm pleased with how this all turned out!

Now, to buy some kitty litter and a few toys, finish kitten-proofing... Then I'll be mostly all set!


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## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

You're right on track 

Others will have to suggest wet food for you (you're right that fancy feat is not on the list of 'stellar' foods...but some of their flavors are ok), or you can take a peel through the 'Health & Nutrition' section for LOTS of info on canned foods.

I'm sure this has already been mentioned, but just to be safe - set up a kitten room for them to stay in the first few days. My boys both had a kitten room to stay in while I wasn't home until they were 6 months (old enough to hide from Jitzu  ), and it's much easier and safer for them that way. They won't be able to get into anything too naughty, or hurt themselves, while you aren't able to supervise them. Plus, it'll help them settle in if they only have to get used to a small space initially.


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## spirite (Jul 31, 2012)

Oh man, if you knew how many of us here were trying to get our kitties off the Fancy Feast...Two of mine will rarely eat other things. The major reason I don't like to feed it is the meat by-products. Eccchhhhh. When I mentioned that to a vet several years ago, she said that it was fine, because cats eat just about all of their prey. But their prey wasn't injected with steroids, raised in awful conditions, and then processed in packing plants...

With two kitties, you'll be able to buy the 5.5.-oz. cans - much more economical than the 3-oz. cans. 

I really recommend Dave's 95% line. It's grain-free, no by-products, very few extra things thrown in (I have an issue with too many fruits and vegetables in cat food). You won't find it at Petco or PetSmart, but independent pet stores will carry it. The 5.5-oz. cans at my store are $1.51, so that's not all that much more expensive than the 3-oz. Fancy Feast cans. 

Other good brands that come in 5.5-oz. cans are Wellness, Evo, Natural Balance, Merrick's, Nature's Variety Instinct, Blue Wilderness...many others. Of those, NV Instinct and Blue are the most expensive. You should be able to buy the others at approx. $1.50 or less per 5.5-oz. can. 

If you can't find them locally, you can order online, though at most places, you need to order by the case (12 or 24 cans), so that's really risky, unless you're sure your kitties will eat all of the cans - I've given away many, many cans of food!


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## Rook (Nov 3, 2014)

One last question before the kids come home today at noon... Scary but exciting!

How much do I feed and how often? Internet says three or four times per day for little kittens. But how much do they eat at each feeding (and total over the course of the day)?


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## Rook (Nov 3, 2014)

I have both of them home now! Sam is curled up on me and Dean is next to me. It's adorable. 

Sam isn't feeling well though. She's stuffed up and has a runny nose. The rescue woman told me to give her lysine and see if that helps but she seems to be having some trouble breathing and she doesn't have much of an appetite (Dean pigged out while Sam climbed in my lap and refused to eat). Should I stick with the lysine for a couple days and see if that does the trick or should I insist on getting something stronger? Also, how can I get her to eat? She feels skinny


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## spirite (Jul 31, 2012)

Aw, congrats on getting them home! 

About how much to feed: I've never had kittens that young, but I think most people say to let them eat as much as they want at that age. Hopefully people with experience with little ones can give you more guidance.

Aw, poor Sam. It sounds like she's got a URI? L-lysine will definitely help, but you might want to post that question in the Health & Nutrition forum so that people who've been in that situation (and there are plenty!) will see the post. 

More pics when you can!


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## Rook (Nov 3, 2014)

I called the rescue lady back and we got prescription canned food, clavamox, and some milk. I'll keep up the l-lysine as well. Poor little grey kitty (I'm still working on names!) is skinny and keeps trying to nurse off her sister (the sister tolerates this pretty well). I got her to eat a mix of the milk and prescription food so I think we'll be okay, but it'll take time.

I now understand all those "cat in your face when you're trying to do something" pictures I see online. Dean has been trying to get me to put down my phone since I started typing this! It's hilarious (and any typos are her fault!). 

The foster family said that Sam was so cuddly but Dean was standoffish and shy. I think she must remember me though because Dean hasn't stopped purring since I got her home! She's doing that cheek-rub thing and purring like a machine and it's the cutest thing. Sam is curled in my lap. She really misses her mama - they were separated a week ago. I know she'll adjust, but is there anything I can do for her to ease the process? She'll only eat if I hold her in my lap... I feel bad for her.


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## Rook (Nov 3, 2014)

I think she's feeling better this morning! I gave her a sfose of clavamox last night and another this morning. She didn't eat much yesterday but I did get her to take some recovery food mixed with kmr. When I put the food down this morning she dove in to eat! She likes sitting on my shoulder.


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## Greenport ferals (Oct 30, 2010)

Great news, Rook. Glad she's feeling better. When you say you got some milk, do you mean kitten milk?


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## Rook (Nov 3, 2014)

Oh, yes - kitten milk. Sorry, should have specified!


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## Greenport ferals (Oct 30, 2010)

For some one new to cats, you're doing a fantastic job.


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## Rook (Nov 3, 2014)

Thanks! I'm doing my best - and doing lots of reading!

Xena has runny poo - I'm assuming it's all the changes in location, food, etc. Think that's a reasonable assumption? She's actung fine otherwise, running, playing, snuggling, eating like a pig...


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## Rook (Nov 3, 2014)

So, here's a question. Xena is really possessive of her food - she growls when Hetty tries to eat. I have separate bowls for them and they'll eat out of their bowl, but Hetty eats so much slower so when Xena is done, she goes over and growls Hetty away from her food. Should I feed them in separate rooms or just sit there and make sure nothing happens?


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## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

Xena's runny stools could be because of a mix of things; stress, kitten milk (if they've never had it before), ect. If it doesn't clear up in a day or two, or if she starts looking lethargic, then it'd be time for a vet trip.

As for the growling, I'd suggest putting down 3-4 food bowls with a kitten's worth of food in each. I'd also supervise, and once Xena is done remove her to another area so Hetty can finish up in peace.

I just came across a neat article about preventing food aggression in dogs - the basic idea still applies.
An Easy Way to Prevent Food Aggression in Dogs | Psychology Today


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## Rook (Nov 3, 2014)

I tried that tonight (thanks for the link!) and it worked until Xena finished her food - then she ran right to Hetty and growled her away from the bowl (there was a swat or two in there too). I put Hetty at the other bowl and she ate there, but Xena followed her around from bowl to bowl... Since I know nothing of cat behavior, I'll ask what's probably a stupid panicky-mom question: Is this a sign that they may not get along well in the future, or is it just growing pains? Could Xena be feeling crappy because of the loose stool and is therefore just being a little jerk? Or is she picking on her little sister because Hetty is so skinny and small? Do I sound like a worried mom? It's been just over a day and I'm already such a...mom! Heh...


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## spirite (Jul 31, 2012)

Ok wait...now there are too many kitties! I know the kittens are Sam and Dean. Where did Xena and Hetty come from? Sorry if you've already said so - I went back and skimmed through the thread, but I could have missed it.


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## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

If Xena is that determined then I'd feed them separately. It may change as she grows up, just make sure she's getting all she wants for now.


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## Rook (Nov 3, 2014)

Sorry! Thought I mqntioned it - I changed their names. Sam and Dean were temporary names and I finally settled on permanent ones yesterday.


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## Rook (Nov 3, 2014)

Missed the edit window - Sam is Hetty and Dean is Xena.


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## Jenny bf (Jul 13, 2013)

I don't know how I have missed this thread! Wow this is some journey you have been on. You have done such a great job. You also had some great advice too and its nice to see you have taken that on board.


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## Rook (Nov 3, 2014)

I tried feeding them separately this morning - Xena in their room and Hetty in the kitchen with me. Xena ran right over when I set the bowl down, then I took Hetty away and closed the door and Xena started crying. She cried for ten minutes (off and on) while I had Hetty out with me. Hetty wasted no time and ate like a little pig. When she was done, I took her back down the hall, waited until Xena had been quiet for a moment, then went back in. Xena climbed up on my shoulder (joined Hetty there - balancing two wasn't easy!) and purred for a little while, like she was saying "How dare you leave me in here all alone!" She started eating after a while, so I sat with her with Hetty on my lap. She growled once, pushed Hetty's head away once, then cleaned her dish. So it looks like the eating separately thing won't work, at least not for Xena. Think I could feed Hetty in the little crate and let Xena eat in the room? I feel like I'm juggling kittens :lol:

Also, how long should I give them to get comfortable before letting them have run of the house when I'm not home? I increased their "free time" periodically yesterday - first they had an hour, then a long nap, then I let them out for three hours before bed. I don't want to give them complete freedom until we get Xena's runny poo cleared up. They've both been really good about seeking out and using the litter box, even when they were free and running around the house (which must seem so big to the tiny little kids!).

This is how I watched TV last night:


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## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

Keep trying to feed them apart - one try isn't anywhere near enough for her to get the hang of it. 

Try for a solid 2 weeks, and I bet you'll have no problems with it, but leave her in there for a good 1/2 hour. She'll be so distracted the first few times she won't eat for a bit, but she'll catch on.

As for giving them free reign...I left the boys locked up until they were both over 6m. Partly that was because they needed to be big enough to run away from Jitzu to be left safely out at the time, but also because they can be very naughty when unsupervised 

Up to you, if they are well behaved when you're home at about 4m and they haven't tried to eat anything that could hurt them...you could see how it goes. But cover or hide the sugar bowl. Trust me. lol


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## Rook (Nov 3, 2014)

I'll keep trying the solo feedings then! I felt bad this morning because my mom was still asleep (not for long, though..haha) but she said not to worry about it.

It sounds like it's a case by case thing, then. I'll have to reevaluate in a couple months and see how we're doing. We keep sugar in a tupperware in a cabinet, so hopefully it's safe! :lol:


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## spirite (Jul 31, 2012)

Oh my gosh. :luv

Sooooo sweet! And thanks for clearing up the mystery of the names. So Hetty, formerly Sam, is the little gray girl, and Xena, formerly Dean, is the black and white. You've got two furry little heating pads. 

You're an angel for going through all of this to take these little girls in. And it must run in your family...your mom is an angel, too, for not being upset about crying kittens!


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## TabbCatt (Mar 26, 2014)

Oh wow, so late into the game here; just now read the entire thread! Rook, you've done an amazing job so far, and I'm glad that you took both kitties in together!  :thumbup:
I answered your other thread but it seems you've already been getting awesome advice from seasoned members, lol ;-) 

I was also confused with the sudden name change, so glad it's cleared up! (thanks, spirite!) Kittens are certainly a LOT of work, but they really grow fast. Take the time to enjoy them now, take a lot of photos and savor each fleeting moment of their kittenhood!


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## Rook (Nov 3, 2014)

I was in such a rush to feed them last night (I had 15 minutes before I had to run out the door) that I completely forgot to separate them, and no one threw a fit! They ate out of their respective bowls without any fuss and then played for a while. 

Hetty's stuffy nose is clearing up - she's still stuffy, but she can breathe better and she's now feeling good enough to dart around the room like a psycho after the toy-on-a-stick. She has the runs now, but I'm fairly certain that's the antibiotic. Is there something I can do for her to make her less runny or do we have to just wait it out? 

Xena's poos are still soft but weren't nearly a runny this morning, so I think the drugs we got are working! She loves the stick toy too and flips all around trying to catch it (and I do let her catch it - I remember reading you're supposed to so they feel like they caught their prey, right?). She's started turning her nose up at the canned food, but the bowl of dry kibble that I leave out overnight had a big dent in it this morning, so I suppose she's decided that kibble is more to her taste. I know Hetty isn't eating it - she tried one the other day and spat it out :lol: Could the canned food have been responsible for her runs? I'm basing all my questions off my experience with dogs: with the wrong food (too rich, too much protein, etc) they can get pretty bad diarrhea - does the same hold true for kittens? I got some Blue Buffalo canned food for them, but I'm on my last can now and I'm picking up more today. Perhaps I'll try a different brand and see how that works out.

They really are a lot more work than I thought they'd be, but they're also just so much fun! Xena has gotten really snuggly, purrs a lot (almost all the time as long as I'm petting her!), plays like a little tornado, and likes belly rubs (she lets me hold her like a baby and massage her tummy - it's adorable). She loves the crinkly toys that I got at Target, too. She surprised me in that she's the more social of the two - she visits my parents and pauses for attention (even napped next to my mom the other night) while Hetty is a definite lap cat, but cries if someone is holding her and I leave the room. Hetty is still the snugglier of the two, but now that she's feeling better it's fun to watch her play - she's decided that the plastic ball things with a bell inside are the best toy in the room. She also purred for the first time yesterday! She was laying on my throat, choking me, and purring. Even with the claw marks on my legs from climbing kittens, I find that I like having cats more than I expected to!

I really appreciate all the help I've gotten here - I feel much less stressed about all of this knowing that there are knowledgable cat people I can turn to for advice!


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

This thread has gone a bit off topic. Time for a new thread in the appropriate forum for specific advice. :grin:


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