# A little advice please.



## Catl0v3r (Aug 31, 2011)

I'd like a little advice about one of my cats.

She's about 2 and has been sick regularly ever since I got her (a few months ago). The previous owner told me she was a bit like that but didn't make a big thing out of it and I didn't think much about it. I asked what she was eating when I got her and bought the same stuff (Iams) but she was a sick, so I gradually changed her to the food I was feeding my other cat, which is something I buy online, called Bozita, because it is high in meat and high quality, I believe. The situation remained the same, so I contacted the previous owner who denied telling me she was fed Iams dry there (I have an email from her proving it though :?: ) and said to feed her Royal Canin dry. I tried this (introduced gradually to avoid upset) but no improvement. 

I took her to the vet after a couple of days. At first the vet wasn't too worried, confirmed that some cats are just like that. But then it got worse. I've tried the usual, starving her for 24 hours then feeding boiled fish, boiled chicken, Hills I/D etc. None of this helps much.

Eventually she also developed itchiness and scratched herself sore within an hour or so.

The vet thinks it may be an allergy (she was quite sick after eating boiled chicken so it's possible it's due to that). The vet put her on Hills Z/D dry and canned mixed. That sorted out the itchiness but she was still being sick every day. She then gave her steroid tablets and she is now not sick as often as she was. the vet has now reduced the steroid tablets from one a day to half a day. She is only sick about twice a week now. However I am worried as there is hydrolyzed chicken protein in Hills ZD and I am wondering if this could still be causing a problem.

The vet has examined her thoroughly, felt her tummy, taken her temperature. She also had runny eyes, which didn't clear up completely with antibiotic drops and the vet thinks that may now be linked to an allergy too. She can find nothing else wrong with her, can't feel a foreign body. She has lost a bit of weight, about half a kg over the past couple of months I think, so I am stepping up how much I feed her.

I know the next step would be an allergy test, but understand that due to the steroids a blood test would not be any good now? Also it is very expensive and I can't really afford it. As she has been ill since I got her I was not able to insure her - I was at the vets two days after picking her up, so any insurance would not have covered this illness. 

She doesn't like her ZD food and will only eat well when she is really hungry first thing in the morning. I feed her little and often to avoid sickness and I am having to feed the cats separately as they will pinch each others' food otherwise, which is proving difficult, when she just sits there looking at her food and not eating, so I seem to be constantly putting it away and getting it out, hoping she'll eat. 

So .... sorry for the long post. I've tried to include as much detail as possible and just wondered what people thought. I'm also worried it might be something my other cat could catch.

I have tried asking the previous owner for advice but she says I have caused the problem by feeding too many different foods - this is not true, as I have only fed what she recommended, when that didn't help I changed her to the food I feed my other cat gradually, when that didn't help I went back to the previous owner, was advised she should actually have had Royal Canin dry which I then gave a little of, but no improvement, then I didn't feed her for a day and gave her a little Hills I/D for sensitive tums as advised by the vet, but that didn't help. A friend recommended Royal Canin vet pouches, again for sensitive tums, so I gave a tiny bit of that, but it didn't help. I then (after no food for half a day) went to boiled fish, when that didn't stop the sickness, at the advice of the vet, I didn't feed her again for half a day followed by boiled chicken. Then, as advised by the vet I didn't feed her again for half a day and then changed to ZD. So, yes, a few changes, but all as advised and done gradually.

I obviously will continue as advised by the vet but am wondering if she is missing something.

Thanks.

I am sorry if this is in the wrong place but it seems I can only post here.


----------



## Catl0v3r (Aug 31, 2011)

Anyone have any advice please?

I've been back to the vets this morning and asked if antibiotics will help. The vet has prescribed a week's worth, 1 morning and night, but didn't seem convinced they would help. It could be a viral problem apparently which may just come and go for all her life? We've also to start the antibiotic eye drops again and carry on with half a steroid in the evening.

The next step is to give her an anaesthetic, x ray her and take full bloods and swabs, which will cost me about £300 and we may be none the wiser at the end of it if it's an allergy.


----------



## BotanyBlack (Apr 6, 2011)

sounds like a food allergy if the vet found nothing else.

my suggestion would first try getting off of dry food and go to wet. And if you want to continue the chicken with the canned.. feed it raw not boiled as boiling actually destroys the nutrients in it. Do not feed it raw within 12 hours of her eating dry though. 

If its feasable make sure the canned is grain free, as a lot of cats have allergies to these and also its not exactly good for cats anyway since they cannot digest it properly. I would try different proteins if you think she may have a chicken allergy. But fish is not the best to go with maybe once a week for a treat.

If you really want to stay on dry though, there are a few brands that are dehydrate raw you can try, I have never used these, but there are a few people on the forums that can probably recommend something. 

I have had to deal with grain allergies and found a mixed diet of raw and canned worked well for me


----------



## Catl0v3r (Aug 31, 2011)

Thanks for your reply.

I do not want to feed dry, I only fed her dry food at first because the previous owner said she had been feeding that. I changed to Bozita in tetra paks (high meat content) but the vomiting continued. She is now fed Hills allergy diet canned and dry as advised by the vet. Not feeding anything else to avoid reactions.

Vet suspected allergy (possibly to chicken?) but surely symptoms would have gone by now after feeding Hills z/d for a month or so?

Is the eye problem connected to the allergy maybe? Or an eye infection? If infection, why are drops not clearing it up?

I think Bozita is grain free food. Also have Smilla and Animonda here, but many have chicken in them - all Bozita does.

I only fed her boiled white fish in an attempt to stop the vomiting, as i thought it would rest her stomach as is very light.

Not sure what to do now. Vet has today prescribed a week's course of antibiotics to see if there is an infection that will clear that way. Also eye drops again (Tiacil).

She is still on steroid tablets (half per day, predicare).

Husband wants me to return her to the breeder as we have been visiting the vet with this for over a month and no improvement but huge cost!

Help!!!!


----------



## BotanyBlack (Apr 6, 2011)

With my cat's allergies, he got runny eyes and really bad yellow discharge from the nose, as well as itching around the ears.. which of course resulted in sinus infection and ear infection. Antibiotics helped this. And a change in diet helped the rest. 

Its good you are already on grain free that helps rule out that. So now to switch from chicken maybe and see if that helps any. Its a good next step. As to the fish the reason I mentioned it was that a lot of cats can get addicted to having it and it is a pretty fatty food. But it doesn't hurt if you just trying to get the cat to eat. So far it sounds like you are moving in the right direction, unfortunately its a lot of trial and error on our parts. 

You got her from a breeder and she already had some of these issues? What was in her health contract?

Just looked up Bozita.. may want to go read the bag/can on yours.. alot of thiers seems to have maize meal in it.. corn... several people on these forums have cats with a corn allergy. so might be worth looking at too


----------



## Catl0v3r (Aug 31, 2011)

Thanks for your reply.

My cat hasn't had nasal discharge, but itching around neck and ears, which bled.

Not feeding chicken now, just the Hills ZD diet which is an diet for allergic cats. That is all she has. And all she has had for past month.

I have no contract for the cat. Breeder wanted to breed from her but she has undershot jaw so she couldn't use her for breeding. I bought her for £250 and as we were about to leave she said "She is sick sometimes, but it's just because she's greedy, don't let her eat too much". We had paid and were about to leave, thought nothing much of it, but then she was being sick every day or every 2 days. Tried to improve things by changing food but nothing helped. 

Now the breeder says there is nothing wrong with the cat, it is my fault for changing her food so often, but didn't change it that often and always gradually, I only changed her food to try and find something that didn't make her vomit.

At a loss now. Vet not convinced it is an allergy. Said today it could be viral. Wants to x ray her and take full bloods and swabs for virals etc.

P.S. Just wanted to add - she is very subdued, when we first got her she was playful and affectionate and noisy, now she doesn't want to play, I don't think she feels well at all. Am very worried about her. She is losing weight, although I feed her as much as she will eat, she is losing about 100 g to 200g a week. She's not even vomiting that much at the moment!I don't know why she is losing weight.


----------



## BotanyBlack (Apr 6, 2011)

I wish you luck with the Vet. I hope its something that's easy to fix. Keep us updated and welcome to the forums. 

As to returning her to the breeder. sounds like she has it figured out how not to take her back since she keeps changing her story and denying the=ings.. good luck there also.


----------



## Catl0v3r (Aug 31, 2011)

BotanyBlack said:


> I wish you luck with the Vet. I hope its something that's easy to fix. Keep us updated and welcome to the forums.
> 
> As to returning her to the breeder. sounds like she has it figured out how not to take her back since she keeps changing her story and denying the=ings.. good luck there also.


Thanks. I don't think the vet knows what it is, hope if we do some tests it will throw some light on the situation.

I really don't want to return her to the breeder, but have been wondering if it would be kinder as maybe it is the stress of living with my cat and dog that is making her ill. Maybe if she goes back she will be fine?

I will post an update when I go back to the vet next week - we are going to give the antibiotics a week to work to see if they make a difference.


----------



## kwarendorf (Oct 12, 2009)

If your cat is still vomiting, and eating only Z/D, then it's not likely a food allergy. I went through much of this with Franklin. The z/d is nasty stuff  And Expensive! Even though the protein source is chicken, the hydrolyzing process restructures the protein so that the cat's body does not see it as anything to attack. 

If it were a food allergy z/d should have handled it. I tried the z/d approach for about a month w/Franklin and he continued to throw up. He was eventually diagnosed with inflammatory bowel disease (IBD). IBD can be controlled with steroids. Franklin started at 5mg 2X/day for 4 weeks, followed by 5mg 1X/day for for weeks and now gets 5mg every other day, and will for life.

Do you know what dose your vet gave? If the inflammation is bad, it can take a relatively high dose over a relatively long time to get it under control.


----------



## Catl0v3r (Aug 31, 2011)

kwarendorf said:


> If your cat is still vomiting, and eating only Z/D, then it's not likely a food allergy. I went through much of this with Franklin. The z/d is nasty stuff  And Expensive! Even though the protein source is chicken, the hydrolyzing process restructures the protein so that the cat's body does not see it as anything to attack.
> 
> If it were a food allergy z/d should have handled it. I tried the z/d approach for about a month w/Franklin and he continued to throw up. He was eventually diagnosed with inflammatory bowel disease (IBD). IBD can be controlled with steroids. Franklin started at 5mg 2X/day for 4 weeks, followed by 5mg 1X/day for for weeks and now gets 5mg every other day, and will for life.
> 
> Do you know what dose your vet gave? If the inflammation is bad, it can take a relatively high dose over a relatively long time to get it under control.


Thanks for your help.

The vet gave me 5 mg tablets of Predicare, 1 a day. After 2 weeks we have now lowered that to half a 5 mg tablet a day.

All the time I have been thinking that, that if it's an allergy the ZD would have sorted it by now. But the vet was fairly certain because of the vomiting and itching that it was an allergy. My first thought was IBD due to her vomiting right from when we first got her. She also spends a lot of time licking her lips as if she feels nauseous but I've since been told this could also be a sign of a sore throat or something.

The vomiting is less now, this week she has vomited just the once. 

The vet doesn't want her to stay on steroids for long as she said they can cause problems with the side effects long term.

How was the IBD diagnosed in Franklin? Does he have a special diet?


----------



## Catl0v3r (Aug 31, 2011)

By the way, she doesn't have diarrhoea, would she have if it was IBD?


----------



## kwarendorf (Oct 12, 2009)

Catl0v3r said:


> The vet gave me 5 mg tablets of Predicare, 1 a day. After 2 weeks we have now lowered that to half a 5 mg tablet a day.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


I am not a vet, but that seems like a fairly half hearted attempt at using steroids to treat you guy's intestinal issue. As I mentioned, Franklin started at twice that dose and took it for a month. He has not thrown up since he started taking *prednisolone*. That was 16 months ago. 

Franklin was diagnosed via endoscopic biopsy. His vet is not concerned about any side effects for 5mg prednisolone every other day. Any side effects that might exist would be quickly outweighed by continued intestinal distress and malabsorbtion of nutrients from food. He does not eat a prescription diet, but he does does eat Natural Balance Canned Duck & Green Pea (a limited ingredient, food allergy friendly brand) and Royal Canin Indoor Adult 27 dry.

Franklin weighed 5 pounds when he started taking prednisolone 16 months ago. He now weighs 8 3/4 pounds. Better Living through steroids!

The lip licking thing is another sign of stomach upset.


----------



## Nan (Oct 11, 2010)

My cat Sophie had IBD and only had diarroea a couple times in her life. She tended toward constipation.

Try to see if you can find some limited ingredient duck or rabbit wet food & see if she'll eat that.


----------



## Catl0v3r (Aug 31, 2011)

kwarendorf said:


> I am not a vet, but that seems like a fairly half hearted attempt at using steroids to treat you guy's intestinal issue. As I mentioned, Franklin started at twice that dose and took it for a month. He has not thrown up since he started taking *prednisolone*. That was 16 months ago.
> 
> Franklin was diagnosed via endoscopic biopsy. His vet is not concerned about any side effects for 5mg prednisolone every other day. Any side effects that might exist would be quickly outweighed by continued intestinal distress and malabsorbtion of nutrients from food. He does not eat a prescription diet, but he does does eat Natural Balance Canned Duck & Green Pea (a limited ingredient, food allergy friendly brand) and Royal Canin Indoor Adult 27 dry.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the information.

I don't think the vet is thinking of IBD yet, she tried to control the suspected allergy by changing to Z/D diet but it didn't help. She then prescribed steroids to alleviate the symptoms. As my cat seemed better on 1 x 5mg tablet a day she decided to drop the dose to see if she was still ok. 

My cat is definitely throwing up less, she threw up on Sunday but I had to go away to visit family over the weekend and left my son in charge, so I don't know if he made sure she had her tablet and I also didn't see her throw up. I came back Monday evening and she hasn't thrown up since then, last week she only threw up once or twice, much much less than before.

Where are you? I'm in the UK and it seems Natural Balance duck and pea is not available here. I will look for something suitable. From what I have read I need to find a single protein that my cat has not had before and the food needs to be grain free?


----------



## Catl0v3r (Aug 31, 2011)

Nan said:


> My cat Sophie had IBD and only had diarroea a couple times in her life. She tended toward constipation.
> 
> Try to see if you can find some limited ingredient duck or rabbit wet food & see if she'll eat that.


Thank you Nan.

As I'm in the UK, I can't get the same stuff as in the US.

How does this sound?

"Terra Felis Meat Menus 6 x 200 g Terra Felis is a premium quality cat food with taurine for healthy eyes and heart. Grain-free, made from natural ingredients, and enriched with important vitamins, minerals and trace elements.
Terra Felis Meat Menus cat food is a tasty home-style meal for cats made from natural, premium ingredients. The Terra Felis nutrition concept with its varied recipes is based on the natural feeding habits of your cat. Careful, gentle preparation of fresh ingredients ensures an optimal diet with all the necessary nutrients to keep your pet healthy. _Rabbit with Broccoli & Catnip:_ Rabbit hearts, rabbit muscle meat, rabbit livers, rabbit lungs, broccoli, tomatoes, dandelion, catnip, rosehips, wheat germ oil, whey, egg shells, kibbled linseed, sea algae, Andean salt, drinking water
Ratio: 88% meat : 9% vegetables and herbs : 3% other raw materials (no stock) *Additives:* Taurine (1000 mg/kg)."


I am very grateful for your help.


----------



## kwarendorf (Oct 12, 2009)

My experience with vets, and the one who fixed Franklin is # 3, is that if they don;t understand something then it couldn't possibly be the cause  You are wise to monitor this closely. I let it go too far. 

Unfortunately biopsy is the only way to diagnose IBD. For 18 months I did everything I could to avoid it, to Franklin's detriment. 

Living in New York City makes it pretty easy to get the Duck/Green Pea cans. Any novel protein should serve the same protein. Look for food that has duck, rabbit venison etc, as the only source of protein.


----------



## Catl0v3r (Aug 31, 2011)

Thanks.

I will talk to the vet about IBD next week when I go back (wantto give the antibiotics a chance to help, just in case they do!). If she isn't keen, will look for another vet.

Have found Terra Felis (see above), single protein food, and ordered 6 cans to try. Fingers crossed. Anything else I can be giving my cat to help, i.e. supplements, evening primrose oil, something like that?


----------



## kwarendorf (Oct 12, 2009)

That food looks like it will do the trick. I would stay away from supplements until you get his gut settled down. Some conditions, like IBD, involve bacterial overgrowth. That's why some intestinal issues respond to antibiotics. I would put probiotics on top of the list of things to avoid for the time being.


----------



## Catl0v3r (Aug 31, 2011)

Thanks. I will see how she does on that and not add anything else for now.


----------

