# How do I know if my cat just doesn't like other cats?



## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

My husband and I adopted a 3rd cat on Sunday. He's 7 months old and very friendly and assertive.

We have two 9-month-old littermates--Coda and Allegro--already who get along fine. They fight, wrestle and roughhouse a lot and it gets pretty wild, but the next minute they are grooming and cuddling next to each other.

I immediately brought the 3rd cat, Forte, to his safe room without seeing the other cats. I've installed a Feliway plug-in just outside of Forte's room. We have been bestowing lots of affection and treats on Coda and Allegro. We've been switching out their bedding every day to intermingle their scents. C+A have been interested in the door, and I've given them treats and praised them when they sit outside of the door. Allegro especially has been interested. When I entered and exited the room, Allegro would hiss when he caught a glimpse of Forte, but now he doesn't. I've even cracked the door slightly so that they could sniff each other. The first couple of times I did this, Allegro hissed or growled, but he no longer does that. He just seems calm and interested, and has even rolled on his back and purred while the door was cracked open.

Coda was always the one I worried about (she's the one that hissed at the baby foster kittens, even when they were as young as 3-4 weeks). She's been cuddling up fine to the bedding from Forte's room. I decided to take the next step and let them explore each other's environment. My husband brought Forte into a spare room, out of sight of the other cats. I then lured Coda and Allegro into Forte's safe room using their favorite treats. Coda started softly growling, but I spoke calmly and reassuringly and I closed the door so that my husband could bring Forte out to explore his new home without the stress of having the 2 other cats there. I was going to go out there too and watch him explore, but it became quickly evident that Coda was NOT happy. I'm sure she smelled Forte all over the place. She started hissing and growling CONSTANTLY. When Allegro got anywhere near her, she'd growl and hiss, raising a paw with extended claws. I've never seen her hiss so seriously before. At one point, she stopped growling as I spoke reassuringly to her, and I held out my hand (the back of the hand, curled into a fist) to sniff. I figured she wouldn't be interested in being petted, but was still a little surprised at her reaction--she batted at my hand (no claws, just footpad) and hissed LOUDLY at me. That was one unhappy kitty! I didn't know whether to give her treats or not, because she was growling and hissing constantly and I didn't want to reinforce that behavior, but on the other hand I wanted to associate positive things with Forte's smell.

We still have to bring Forte out in the carrier for them to smell through the bars.

Any tips on what we can do until then or what we can do to help Coda chill out?

In another issue, my husband said that Forte was hiding from him, like he was scared, when touring the house. He said his tail was up and hooked on the end almost constantly, so I think he was probably just playing? Any feedback on that?

Thank you in advance!!


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## Randiocoy (Jul 30, 2010)

Forte was probably nervous in new surroundings. it sounds fairly normal. Daisy was like Coda when i introdoced both cats after her. and after one of the cats goes to the vet and smells funny when they come back. Keep doing what you are doing. keep switching rooms and scents. when they are calm give treats. some cats are just really stubburn and just wont accept another cat, but in most cases they will at the very least learn to live with them. at this point Coda doesnt seem that out of sorts. she is just less tolerant to change. I think you are doing everything so patient and puurrrfect! keep up the good work. wait to take the next step when they are comfortable with where they are. I know introducing cats is stressful...but soooo worth it in the end!


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## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

I have a few reactions to your narrative. By way of background, I have one very temperamental, fear aggressive, hissy female cat, Snowball, who took 45 days to get along with Hershey the Havana, has taken six months to coexist uneasily with Blizzy, but who learned to get along with Little Hersh, my other Havana who arrived three weeks ago, within two weeks. I'd like to believe I've learned a few things the past six months, mainly due to the guidance of others, that made Little Hersh's intro so smooth--he got along with Hersh the first day and with Blizzy within a few days.

With all respect, you may be moving a bit too fast with Coda, on your timetable more than on hers. I did make that mistake myself with Snowby and Blizzy, and it undoubtedly delayed their getting along. Forte only arrived Sunday, so it may have been a bit too soon for Coda to go into his room; perhaps she needed or needs a few more days to stand outside his room and to get used to his being there and to his scents before she is "confronted" with his smells directly all around her. 

Second, I have read that it is often (there are no hard and fast rules, of course, it all depends on your situation and your cats) better to allow the newcomer first to meet either the dominant or most influential of the remaining cats, alone. Thus, I had Little Hersh meet Hershey first, then Blizzy, and after a few more days, then Snowball. By the time Snowball met Little Hersh face to face, she was able to see that Hersh and Blizzy got on with him. And before she met him, I had opened the door to his safe room and allowed her to go in and explore it ON HER OWN, as I did with Hersh and Blizzy, and I kept the door open, so they could leave as soon as they were uncomfortable. As you can imagine, even though the first exploration by Snowball was short, she was curious, and so she came back and explored again, quietly and tentatively.

Third, I would resume the room exchanges only once Coda stops serious hissing outside his room, and then keep doing them, and hold off on the face to face, until Coda stops hissing or growling when she is in his room. That would be the signal to move to the next step of allowing any kind of face to face meeting. I would also continue to give them treats when in the other's room, to develop a positive association with the smell of the other cat.

Based on our human sense of impatience and excitement to get over the initial phase, our sense of time often differs from the cats' own timetables. Forte will likely want to move much more quickly than Coda, for instance, to the next step. By the way, Forte doesn't sound like he was behaving out of the ordinary, bearing in mind that he smelled Coda and Allegro all over the house but didn't see them. He is ready to expect the unexpected and is alert for it. Usually it is good to just let them go around the house and explore without interfering, just trail along to see that they don't get into trouble. I suspect Forte will feel totally comfortable in the house with one or two more forays out.

Since Coda could be a source of concern,just go more slowly with her. You know her well, you will be able to sense when she is calming down enough to move to the next step. Also, I'd get Allegro and Forte to meet first and feel calm around each other before moving on to Coda, since she will take some cues from Allegro's reaction to him.

Just a few ideas/thoughts for you to consider.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Thanks for the great suggestions!

It was weird though...I know now that she needs more time, but I waited until she wasn't hissing or growling anymore at the closed door. I even switched their identical scratch mats and Coda was cuddling up on Forte's scratch mat downstairs earlier yesterday evening. It seemed like she was ready for that next step. 

Allegro has been doing fine. There were some initial hisses when he glimpsed Forte through the door when it opened or closed, but now he's just curious. And Allegro was just fine in Forte's room last night. Totally calm and curious, and he ended up curling up on Forte's bed. We've been having Forte and Allegro glimpse each other through the cracked door, and by now they're both just calm and curious. 

Coda's technically the dominant one (Allegro follows HER around the house- not the other way around). But Allegro's the friendlier one. 

I know we probably should have waited a little longer just to make sure, but here's my concern regarding that--Forte is ALL BY HIMSELF (ETA: And he's used to having many, many cats around him), and I can tell he's getting bored in there despite toys and whatever time we can spend in there (food bowl is often knocked over, other things knocked over and scattered around). I hesitate to spend TOO much time in there with him because I don't want to neglect Coda and Allegro and cause more behavior problems. We're trying to still give lots of love to them. 

I think Allegro and Forte may be ready to meet face-to-face, since they're both doing so well with smelling each other's living areas and peeping at each other through the crack in the door. Would this idea work? I am thinking of isolating Coda in the downstairs bathroom tonight (my husband would stay in there with her and play with her) and opening the door to Forte's bathroom and just keep it open. That way Forte can come out, or Allegro can come in, and Forte can retreat if he feels he needs to. Would that hurt Coda's progress in any way?


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## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

I don't think what you suggest would impede Coda's progress at all. The most important element in all of this, IMHO, is your sensing when the cats are ready for the next step. I think it will help if Allegro and Forte start getting along, even if he is not the dominant cat. When Coda is ready to meet Forte face to face, perhaps through a crack in the door at first, it should help that Allegro will probably be friendly towards him. To me the tough call is where Coda and Forte should meet, when they do meet. There's Forte's room, Coda's room, if she has a favorite, or neutral ground. Opinions differ. Since Snowball gets scared easily, I thought it best if Little Hersh meet her on her own ground, since she knew the turf and could hide if necessary. One great thing about most Havana mixes is they sense where the boundaries are with other cats and try not to cross them, so Forte himself should be a great help. In my case, Snowby hissed a little at LH and then gauged his reaction. He didn't pay that much attention to her, went about exploring the room and certainly wasn't interested in annoying her. That allowed her to relax fairly quickly. Hopefully the same thing will happen with Coda, as she sees FOrte is friendly but respects her space.

Good luck tonight, hopefully this is the easy part!


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Well, THAT didn't go well. Coda went in another bathroom with DH and did fine the whole time, purring. Allegro was doing fine when I cracked the bathroom door, did fine when I opened the door and Forte came out. They just sniffed each other and then Forte went to explore the loft. Allegro followed him, sniffing his butt. Forte tried to sniff Allegro's butt a lot, but Allegro didn't feel comfortable exposing his tail end to Forte for more than a few seconds at a time. He kept turning around to face Forte, looking a little worried. Forte turned his attention to exploring the loft, and pretty soon Allegro just went to sniff Forte's safe room, looking calm but interested. When Forte went downstairs, though, Allegro followed him. Forte started being interested in sniffing Allegro's butt again, and Allegro eventually hissed softly. He seemed kind of upset that Forte was crawling around his digs or something.

Anyway, I had been dispensing treats to both cats at this time, and I decided that the session should probably end to keep things short and simple, so I picked up Forte (Allegro following me closely) and tried to deposit him in his room. He didn't want to go, though, and scrabbled around at the entryway to the room, limbs flailing, and frightened Allegro, causing Allegro to growl. Allegro started halfheartedly chasing Forte around the loft, softly growling, and at one point I saw Allegro tap Forte on the nose with his paw. I didn't see claws- it was a tentative tap. I was eventually able to distract them with a pile of treats and pick up Forte again and bring him to his room. Everybody was fine after that.

The good signs were that throughout everything, both Allegro and Forte had their tails pointing up with a little curl on top, and ears seemed to be in normal position. So even if Allegro was agitated and growly and Forte was apprehensive, it wasn't enough to translate to their body language.

I still feel like I failed, though.  It seems this whole thing is going to take a LOT longer than I thought...


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## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

Hi there, paperbacknovel. Reading your narrative, I don't think you failed at all! Really! Granted, it wasn't fantastic, but what you describe is not bad at all, about par for the course. So don't be so hard on yourself. Sounds like Forte was a little too interested in Allegro's back end for Allegro's comfort, and so he was setting a few ground rules. The first para doesn't sound negative to me at all, just a "getting to know you" kind of thing. I should have mentioned to you that even though Hershey and Blizzy took a liking to each other the first day, Hershey tried to teach Blizzy how to wrestle starting an hour after they met. He applied more force than Blizzy was comfortable with, so Blizzy would give a little hiss, cry out, and then run. But it didn't take Blizzy long to figure out that Hershey was not trying to hurt him, just play, and since Blizzy was not a mean cat, the two of them worked it out pretty fast.

Assuming Allegro and Forte are both not mean, I would guess they will pretty fast "suss" each other out, too--but that takes some trial and error, which may include some early hissing. I will confess that Hershey never used to do paw swipes himself, but during the 45 days he was getting to know Snowball, she paw-swiped at him so often that he picked it up. But it was never open claw, and now he uses it as a subtle warning, like to Little Hersh not to steal his food.

The one brief moment that frightened Allegro hopefully was an aberration caused by the momentary commotion. The running and chasing are standard operating procedure for many cats, but especially for HB mixes--I have Hershey chasing Little Hersh, and vice versa, often, and also Blizzy and Hersh. The chasing should turn into something good, as long as the hissing and growling doesn't get worse--though I should also mention that when Hersh and Blizzy wrestle, there is some serious vocalizing going on. So early on, yes, I would keep a careful watch on it, but it can be just a precursor to learning how to play with each other, once they know each other a little better.

So don't be discouraged--if things don't improve the next two or three times you do this, THEN you can consider what you might need to do to improve the situation--but the fact that they need to set some boundaries for each other is natural, not a bad thing, as long as Allegro doesn't get too upset--if he verges on it, then I would do as yo did, give some treats and end the session.

Good luck tomorrow!


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Sorry that this is so long. 

I took a few steps back and kept switching out bedding and scratch mats. Still showing Allegro and Forte each other through a crack in the door.  No hissing between the two anymore. Coda doesn't seem interested, or maybe she's afraid, so she doesn't really go near the door.

Poor Forte is SO BORED. We try to spend time in there with him, but while we're gone he knocks over his water (we came back to a flood on the floor), scatters his dry food, and knocks over his bed and kitty condo. I feel so awful for him. Being isolated is slowly driving him nuts, I think. He's so sweet and affectionate while we're in there, though. I sit on the toilet seat and he jumps onto the counter, puts his front paws on my shoulder, and gives me head-butts and nuzzles, purring. My mom called while I was in there with him and I got into a mini-argument with her, and when I raised my voice and sounded upset, Forte jumped onto my shoulder like a parrot and nuzzled me with his nose and head, purring for me. Such a sweetheart.

Tonight we tried putting Forte in the carrier and letting Allegro and Coda look at him while we fed all of them treats. Coda growled and hissed. Allegro was fine, and just sniffed at him, tail up. Allegro went to explore Forte's room and was just fine. Forte was going nuts in the carrier, though. We thought he was going to hurt himself- he kept scratching at the bars (nail sheaths falling all over the place) and trying to dig his way out of the carrier. He was moaning a little. We felt awful, but happy that Allegro was doing well, so we put Coda in another room and let Forte out to explore the loft area (which is a kitty area and right outside Forte's bathroom). Forte seemed glad to get out, and Allegro seemed curious. Both boys had their tails up and were sniffing each other's tail regions, but both boys seemed nervous and wanting to keep their backsides away from each other. They were doing OK until Forte started batting Allegro with his paw (maybe to play?) and Allegro hissed and batted Forte with HIS paw, claws out. Then they tackled each other, growling and yowling. I had treats all over the room, but they were distracted by each other. I tried playing with them using a teaser toy, and it worked for about 5 minutes (Allegro was calmly laying on his side, watching Forte play and blinking) before Forte stopped trying to pounce on the toy and instead turned his attentions to stalking and pouncing on Allegro. More chasing and fighting and hissing and growling. I ended up picking up Forte and taking him back into his room. Poor little guy. I apologized to all of them for having to go through that. 

I know it's only been a week, but I'm very discouraged. Keeping Forte isolated would be fine if he were a cat like Brooke (the foster mom), because she never expressed interest in leaving the room and was just fine (and felt safer) chilling with her toys in the bathroom. It's not enough for Forte; he needs someone to play with, and I desperately wish I could let him out and they could play. I almost wish things had been different and we had gotten Forte first--maybe it would have been easier. 

Basically, I know it's all about THEIR schedule, and not OUR schedule...but I don't know how much longer Forte can take being by himself. At the rescue, he was around lots of cats and dogs and people all the time. Here, he has no one, except when Jake or I go in there (we each go in there about twice a day to read and play with him). This is not fair to Forte, and while progress is being made in Allegro's case, progress is very slow. I had no idea Allegro would be this difficult--he had no issues with the foster kittens. 

My husband has already said we're not giving up--he's too attached to Forte. And for heaven's sake, I certainly don't want to give Forte back, even though it technically is a foster-to-adopt situation for 3 more weeks. But at what point do we determine that this just isn't good for either Forte OR Coda and Allegro? I've heard of cats that just don't ever get along, even if they stop fighting. If that happens, Forte will have no playmates, and he'd probably be happier back at the rescue. And Coda and Allegro would be happier without the stress of Forte being there.

This is really depressing. I didn't think it would be a cakewalk and I knew it'd take time--I certainly didn't think they'd be grooming each other and cuddling at this point--but I know a lot of people who bring new cats into their households, and no one I know IRL has had this much trouble. I guess I just expected them to be wary of each other at this point, but at least able to be in the same house together without fighting.

We're giving it more time, of course. Wish us luck.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Pic of Coda and Allegro in my lap- look how well they get along!









Pic of Forte in the bathroom sink-


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

I'm going through similar stuff with Gigi, so I understand your frustration. It's fine to switch rooms occasionally, letting Forte be with you and putting the other two cats in Forte's room for a few hours at a time. Even overnight. I'm keeping Gigi separated from the other girls while I'm at work and at bedtime. But she has half of the house and she's fine by herself. I also use baby gates (three stacked on top of each other.) Then it's not like she's closed in, they can see each other and get used to each other that way, too. 

Cinderella and Cleo never became friends in the three years they were together. They didn't fight, but there was never any closeness. I got the twins partly so Cleo would have someone to play with because she was so young, but they were too overwhelming, so she mostly keeps to herself. 

Introductions can take a few weeks, I don't think you should give up at all. I just saw how recently you got Forte. They're actually doing pretty well, considering it's only been a few days. 

I've been dealing with Gigi's aggression since May.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

It's been exactly a week, so I know that it'll probably take much longer. I saw your thread about Gigi and it's so sad but unavoidable for you. That's what I'm afraid of with Forte- he'll be so unhappy living with us if the other cats won't play with him. 

We tried switching rooms, but Coda growled and hissed, and got to the point where she was trying to claw at me and Allegro because she was so upset. Maybe we can put Coda in a completely different room, put Allegro in Forte's room, and let Allegro roam? 

And sadly we can't divide the house up for Forte to have half--it's one of those modern floor plans where everything is open. The upstairs has a loft that opens up to the downstairs (Coda and Allegro love climbing on the half-wall that separates the loft and the entryway, as well as the plant shelf!), and the living room is only separated from the kitchen by a half-wall.

Hopefully a few more weeks will help. Like I said, though, I worry that Coda's schedule is way different from Forte's schedule. Forte wants out NOWWWWWW. :'(


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

Sometimes, it just doesn't work out. I had to rehome a cat a few years ago that was mean to Cinderella. 

Gigi started on meds yesterday and I'm hoping that will help. If not, I have to do what's best for my original girls, even though, like your husband, I've become so attached to the new one.

We're here for you whatever you decide. atback


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## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

First, I'm SO sorry you are having a bit of a difficult time. But I fully agree with Marie, it's not been long at all, and I think you are going about this the right way.

Second, Forte's hopping onto your shoulder to offer his sympathy is a real awww! moment. I feel sorry for him, too, being cooped up, I think Havana mixes do need a lot of stimulation--and human contact, not incidentally--so this is tough on him, I know.

One comment I would offer is that Hershey started wrestling with Blizzy within the first hour they met, and Hershey would bear down on him too hard, causing him to cry out and run away, even to hiss. But Blizzy did not, as far as I know, paw swipe at Hershey to hurt him. The vocalizing got quite loud, but I let them keep going, and I thought it was play by Hershey and that Blizzy had to figure out Hersh had no intention of hurting him. Once that happened, and it happened in my case within an hour, I knew they would be ok. One sign for me was that despite Blizzy's crying out, after Hersh let him go I saw Blizzy chasing Hersh within a minute or two later, so I figured he couldn't be too upset--he was actually enjoying getting to know a playmate.

Based on your knowledge of Allegro and experience, I accept that Allegro is fighting with Forte and not just reacting to him and rough playing. The challenge for you is going to be that Havanas do love to chase and play--my Little Hersh, only 19 weeks and just over 3 pounds, does it, too, and Hersh goes after him, but not with any ill intent. Question for you--when Allegro went after Forte with his paws, did Forte retreat, but then come back shortly thereafter for more? That would be a typical attempt to play, not to "stalk" in the "I'm going to hurt you" sense. Some of the vocalizing sounds quite rough, so it is important to be able to distinguish between the two. More good things, treats, etc, more interactive toy playing when they are near each other hopefully will calm things down soon.

Not to discourage you further, but for perspective, since my Snowball was not socialized previously, it took 45 days before she and Hershey got along, and that was after constant use of baby gates. I'm not suggesting you will need to go that far, at least with Allegro, just need for him to learn Forte is not out to hurt him, just loves to play. Hershey and Blizzy started wrestling ALL THE TIME, and to the untrained eye it could have sounded like fighting, but it wasn't. And Blizzy started grooming Hersh within a couple of weeks. 

Since I've just taken down the baby gates after five months, now that Snowball and Blizzy can finally coexist for the first time, your intro time seems like a blink of an eye to me. BUt I vividly recall, each and every day, how frustrating it was, and it seemed like a forever trap. BUt it isn't! I am proof positive of that. The sun will come out tomorrow, one of these days soon, so hang in there! And then you'll have 20 years of happiness.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Thank you so much, you guys. This would be a lot easier to wait out if it wasn't so hard on Forte. 

I know how Allegro and Coda play-wrestle. They do it all the time, and Allegro LOVES to wrestle. When Coda and Allegro wrestle, they make little yowling noises, and OCCASIONALLY Coda will hiss if she's not in the mood to wrestle, but there's never any growling or the "REEEEEaaaarr!!" type of screaming noise, and that's exactly what was happening between Forte and Allegro. A LOT more violent and not good-natured. It seemed like whenever Forte would cool down and be calm, Allegro would retaliate for an earlier attack, and vice-versa. And when Allegro seemed to be just playing, Forte would misinterpret and start fighting, and vice-versa. Allegro was just chilling out by the cat tree when Forte started to stalk him and eventually attacked him with teeth and claws. 

So that's why I'm worried. The situation deteriorated so fast. They were first just sniffing each other with curiosity, tails up, and then one paw-swipe and they were fighting. Forte didn't make as much noise as Allegro, but at some point I don't think he was just playing. He would've been fine if Allegro hadn't hissed at him, but I think he was fighting back because Allegro was being hostile.

What's really discouraging, too, is that Coda is MILES behind Allegro. Now, she won't even get NEAR the CLOSED door, other than to growl and hiss at it. So I really am going to try to just let Allegro get comfy with Forte first, since at least he can handle door open a crack, exploring Forte's room, and meeting Forte through the carrier just fine without hissing or growling.

I'm OK with them play-wrestling and figuring out which of them is more dominant than the other, but I don't want them to get hurt. I've never seen Allegro be violent before. He's never growled or hissed until he met Forte.

It doesn't help that even though Forte is 8 months to Allegro's 10 months, Forte is BIGGER than Allegro. They may weigh the same, but Forte is longer and a bit taller. Maybe that's the Bombay or Havana heritage, making his legs longer? But yeah, that could be why Allegro sees Forte as a threat.


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

I think that's a valid point. The cat I tried first with Cinderella was only 8-9 months old, but weighed a pound MORE than Cinderella.

I would try the baby gates instead of closed door, at least when you're home. I bought three and stacked them on top of each other (Walmart, $12 each).


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## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

OK, I take the point, that sounds more like fighting than exploring the limits of play. Too bad. I'm surprised by Forte's reaction to the hissing, since Hershey let it roll off his back. BUt each cat is different, each situation is different. Sounds like you need good things by the door, when opened a crack, and interactive play, and maybe very short sessions together at first--only a couple of minutes?-- that end before they get into fighting matches, and then gradually increase. Again, I would do this several times a day, if your schedules permit, since only once or even twice a day may not be enough. If you had any arrangement that would let them see one another more often and not interact, like a glassed in room, that would be very good, too, to get them used to seeing each other without being able to hurt each other. Or get a doorstop and jam it in so the door to Forte's room is opened a crack for a long period of time but they can't really hurt one another. Anything to allow them to become desensitized to each other's presence over time.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

At first Forte didn't seem bothered by the hissing, but when he has two cats doing it to him for a week (and remember, Coda sits outside of his door and hisses), it has to hurt his self-esteem or make him testy. 

I try making sure there's just playtime with fun toys and plenty of their favorite treats on the ground right by Forte's door, but when they're agitated, it does not distract them in any way.

I'll try the 3 baby gates, Marie. I can see Forte climbing them and knocking them over, though--he's pretty strong and doesn't like being cooped up. He'll be supervised, though.

Sadly, we don't have anything like glass to separate them so they can see each other. Our house is only 2000 sq ft, and it's a wide-open floor plan, so there aren't many options for keeping them apart. 

We might be able to do 3x a day if we keep the sessions very short, but between that and playing with them and doing regular things to take care of them, plus our work schedules where we're gone for 10 hours a day, and keeping up with housework and yardwork and laundry ....yeah.


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## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

For what it's worth, the baby gates, despite their inconvenience, is what ultimately worked for me, together with all good things by the gates, etc.


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

> Only 2000 sq ft.


I think mine is 750. At best. 8O


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

marie73 said:


> I think mine is 750. At best. 8O


 A lot of it goes unused...we have almost no storage space, so the 2 extra bedrooms are now storage and not usable, which is not ideal. Most of the space is taken up by the huge kitchen and huge master bedroom (MBrm is TOO huge, almost!)


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Very tired, so can't do details.

Both yest. evening and this evening, we spent a few hours with C+A confined and Forte being allowed to roam the house. Yesterday, Coda was in a separate room and Allegro was in Forte's bathroom. It killed me because they were both moaning and whimpering, but I did it because Coda had huge difficulties the last time she was in Forte's room. Today, we put both Coda and Allegro in Forte's room to keep each other company, and Forte was allowed a couple of hours to hang out with use while we watched TV and did normal evening stuff. 

Yest. evening, Forte spent a lot of time under the kitchen table and explored a little, but seemed wary and afraid of noises (like the icemaker). Tonight he was much more comfortable, and approached me when I came in the door, and rubbed up against me a lot. He even hopped up on my lap and my husband's lap for a few seconds before hopping down again to explore. He really seemed to LOVE getting to hang out, roam the house, and spend time with us tonight. When I had to pick him up and carry him back to his room and let C+A out, he was purring like mad and nuzzling my face with his head. The good news is, C+A did not hiss at Forte while the switches happened. And they didn't destroy anything or try to "mark their territory" while in Forte's room. Forte had no issues either. 

So that's good news...no direct contact for the past two days, though, but at least they are experiencing each others' scents.


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## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

This is DEFINITELY good news! And it's great that you and they had a hiss-less encounter. Especially good if Coda wasn't hissing while in Forte's room. Will you try the exact same thing tonight, to let them become even more accustomed to the new situation?

I had to laugh about the icemaker. I recently got a new fridge, the first in 24 years (I get four cats in rapid succession, but it takes me 24 years to replace my fridge). They had grown used to the silence of an icemaker-less fridge, but the new one has one, The first time it went off, they gathered around the fridge, trying to figure out where the sound came from. Like with many things, they quickly got used to ignoring it, mainly because it did not lead to any food for them!


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Yup, it's working so well that we're doing it tonight, too. We're probably picking up the baby gates tomorrow, but we'll be out of town from Saturday evening to Sunday afternoon, so we won't have as much time this weekend to work with them.  

Allegro LOVES the sound of the icemaker and waits right underneath it, putting his front paws up on the fridge. He knows we sometimes give him an ice cube to play with--his favorite toy!

I love seeing Forte enjoy our house, but I miss Coda's "model poses" and her little high-pitched demanding mews, and Allegro spending most of the evening snuggling and kneading in my lap.  Each of our three cats has different aspects to their personality--equally enjoyable, but we want to have all three at once instead of being deprived of one or two!


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## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

I understand. The "short-term" deprivations are inconvenient to everyone. But it is especially gratifying when the household settles down, with the newest member well integrated. Today marks only nine days since the Berlin wall (the baby gates) came down after five months for me. While Snowball still does not feel comfortable wandering freely throughout the house, as she retains her defensive-aggressive concerns about Blizzy, each day she's getting better. Yesterday and today she showed up in the family room and kitchen, respectively, to hop onto my lap for petting and to purr, increasingly vigorously, with Blizzy sitting nearby. She never could have done that until recently. But she is now a much happier cat overall. Meantime, Hersh is playing big brother to Little Hersh, who is growing by leaps and bounds. As people kept telling me, so I will reinforce to you, you will feel so good when you come out the other side of this seeming tunnel you're in!


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## Mitts & Tess (Sep 4, 2004)

Paperbacknovel I wanted to comment on how well you are handling the introductions even with the bumps in the road. NewRescueDad and Marie you are giving *excellent *advice. Esp. with well explained tips on how to solve or treat the challenges that occur during this intro period. 

Paperbacknovel I know it is frustrating because you want to see more immediate progress but a couple weeks is nothing when intergrading a new cat into the cat family. I know you’ve wondered if this is truly going to succeed. After fostering over 100 cats and integrating them in with my existing fosters and personal cats I have to say I’m 99.9% sure your new family is going to make it. All the right signs are showing up to indicate this is working.

Don’t let it bother you too much that Forte is sequester for several weeks in the bathroom. It’s not going to traumatize him. In the big picture he is learning this is where his home is and one day the entire home will be accepted as his also, that he is sharing with the others. It takes time for that to sink in. It’s a process.

In Little Big Cat, http://littlebigcat.com/index.php?action=library&act=show&item=cattocatintroductions , Dr Jean Hofve DVM suggests a feeding them by the door where Forte is kept for now. She also mentions Spirit Essence products to help with the transition. I like Spirit Essence products because you can use them in the water or on the cats skin. Other homeopathic products you can’t use on the animals skin. If you haven’t read her article in the library I would do so.

There is also an article called The Tail Speaks Louder Than Words on what the tail positions mean which is interesting and informative. http://littlebigcat.com/index.php?action=library&act=show&item=thetailspeakslouderthanwords

Keep up the good work. Its impressive the strides you’ve made with them.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Thank you, Mitts & Tess! I wouldn't be able to do it w/o the great members here! NewRescueDad especially has been such a great help through threads and PMs. 

NRD also recommended the Spirit Essences...we ordered Rescue Remedy a couple of days ago, and are ordering Peacemaker from Bach's tonight. Hopefully between those two and the baby gates, some real progress can be made.


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## Mitts & Tess (Sep 4, 2004)

A friend of mine from our TNR group has used Bach & Spirit Essence extensively with our foster cats. She compared results and effectiveness & Spirit Essence is by far given her better results. We also have in Tucson a holistic pharmacy that will customize according to the issues & health issues going on to treat each cat too.


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## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

Thanks, Mitts & Tess and paperbacknovel. I learned having a support system here helps a lot--Susan was a tremendous help to me, in particular.

One tip on Spirit Essences. I tried it in their food and water and applying directly on skin--inside the ear and on the head between the ears were especially recommended--and I thought I saw much greater effectiveness when applied directly to each cat. You of course have to become clever in how you do it, since mine didn't like the feeling of wet. I think more gets into the bloodstream when applied to the cat directly, as opposed to going through the stomach to get there.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

OMG OMG OMG.

I had a horrible migraine so I came home from work a little early, and wasn't able to go to Walmart. I decided to switch the cats again and hung out with Forte while Coda and Allegro were up in Forte's room. Forte got really comfortable basking in the sun and looking out the window and ended up on my lap purring for a bit.

After about 3 hours, I told Jake we'd better switch them back. Jake wanted to see what would happen if we just brought out Allegro. I was feeling super sick still and I was like, fine. Anyway, at first they were really great. They sniffed each other for about 5 minutes, no hissing or growling. Then Forte pounced on Allegro and Allegro hissed and clawed. They fought for about 10 minutes, chasing each other around the house. I couldn't get ahold of either one. Then I noticed that they had stopped fighting. Forte would stalk Allegro and pounce on him, but before actually touching or hurting him, he'd leap away...like he was just practicing his pounces and wanted to surprise Allegro. Allegro was turning his back on Forte and grooming himself. Several times, Allegro would walk calmly up to Forte, bop him on the nose, and scamper away, and then turn around to watch what Forte would do. It looked like "Tag- you're it!"

They're still not completely calm or comfortable or trusting of each other, but as of this moment, Forte and Allegro have been around and about the house together and have not fought for 15 minutes! They're still playing and chasing each other though...it's not exactly good-natured, but it's not violent or aggressive at all.

The bad news is, Coda is making the most pathetic little moaning, whimpering noises. :'( Poor baby. She's really terrified of Forte. She's going to be the tough one.

Still a little hissing, but it seems that they're still uncertain of each other--it's not an out-an-out war. 

OK, I just put Forte back and let Coda out. 

YAY. This is a start!


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

That's great!


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## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

Yes, yes, yes!!

I saw OMG and thought, oh no, the worst has happened. OK, so it isn't yet true playing, it's not good-natured yet, but you let them stay out together long enough--for whatever reason--that I hope Allegro is starting to see that Forte doesn't really want to hurt him, and Forte is showing enough self-restraint, with the active encouragement of Allegro, that they are beginning to understand one another, the way guy cats often do.

The only thing I didn't read that I might have suggested, but since you had a migraine you were in no condition to think about, would have been to give Forte and Allegro treats together, near each other, before putting Forte back. That way the last association between them is a very positive one. 

Yes, Coda is likely to be a real challenge, the way Snowball has been for me. But the baby gates may help her overcome that fear, particularly if it comes to pass that Forte and Allegro get along, and Coda then sees that. Allegro might end up serving as a facilitator, go-between and mediator, if he becomes pals with Forte.

For now, don't worry about that, let Coda continue to get used to Forte's scent and focus on encouraging more good things between Allegro and Forte, who both sound like they like to play and hopefully are now in the process of understanding each other better.

You are on your way!


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Ah, I forgot to mention that. I pretty much dumped PureBites treats into Forte's room for Coda, and dumped them all around Forte and Allegro several times while they were out together. Allegro was eating the treats very calmly, but Forte had no interest in either the chicken breast or the beef liver! He just sat there looking at the treats and then looking up at me like "Really?"

Several times in the middle of playing/chasing, they'd both just lay down next to each other grooming or looking around. And then one of them would get up and pounce or whatever, and then they'd both just lay down or walk around separately...like they had accepted that the other wasn't trying to kill them, so they felt OK turning their backs on each other.


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## Mitts & Tess (Sep 4, 2004)

This may be neither here nor there but Ive stopped giving my kitties the traditional cat treats. They loved the party mixes but threw some of them up. They gobbled them down like crack cocaine but they arent the healthiest. 

Ive started using Taste of the Wild and using it as treats and they are a very healthy kibble. My blind kitty just hears the pantry door open and the slight movement of the kibble in my tupperware container and she comes racing in.

Its impressive to see a blind cat race thru a house, know where to turn the corners at full speed and end up at my feet! They all love TOTW and devoure it down and it doesnt come back up. I put a handful by each one of them about twice a day. Just a suggestion.


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