# Carrageenan everywhere



## Remy2012 (Aug 1, 2012)

Why do SO many quality wet cat foods still put carrageenan in their foods? I find it extremely frustrating. Does anyone have a list of actual good wet cat foods that are basically meat (no fish) without carrageenan?


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## Jacq (May 17, 2012)

I'm curious as to why you don't want to feed carrageenan?

"In their review, the JECFA correlated carrageenan feeding levels (and effect levels) in test animals to human intake of carrageenan. This is lacking in the Tobacman review article. The JECFA estimated that the human intake of carrageenan is 30-50 mg/person/day. However, the JECFA concluded that based on the rat studies, if effects from ingestion of carrageenan were observed, the levels of ingestion far exceeded those of human consumption. For example, the JECFA noted that no proliferative effect of carrageenan in the colon mucosa was observed at 1.5% carrageenan in the rat diet. This corresponds to an intake of carrageenan of 750 mg/kg body weight per day, which far exceeds the aforementioned estimated human intake. To put this consumption level in perspective, this carrageenan intake level of 750 mg/kg body weight/day corresponds to a daily consumption of 58 gallons of chocolate milk per day by a 150 lb person!"
 Source (found on another post here a while back)

I mean, carrageenan is just an additive (it's used for colour), so it's not nutritious or beneficial in any way, and I guess there's the potential for sensitivity. I guess if you want it out, you could looks for foods that use "carmine" instead of carrageenan. Carrageenan, a seaweed, replaced carmine (aKa Red Dye #4, crushed up beetle shells). Carmine's been linked to causing allergic reactions in people, as well as exacerbating existing allergies - so if you're worried about allergies to carrageenan, you may find the alternative worse.


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## spirite (Jul 31, 2012)

Someone else here is very leery about carrageenan, though I don't remember who. It's not something that bothers me - I've always felt that if they were to do tests on every food we ingest, invariably they'd find something that was bad for us in each one. But I have noticed that it's in an awful lot of better quality wet foods.

If carrageenan comes from seaweed, it would surprise me that it's bad healthwise, unless it's in the way it's processed, or what particular seaweed. Seaweed's supposed to be very healthy, isn't it?


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## Remy2012 (Aug 1, 2012)

I have read that carrageenan should be avoided if you can... may cause cancer.


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## Nerina (Nov 15, 2005)

As I posted in another thread I personally try and avoid any canned food that has carageenan in it. There are different grades of carageenan and degraded ones, according to the International Agency for Research on Cancer, are said to be a "possible human carcinogen" among other claims.

There is a bit of controversy over it, not just for animals but also for people. I was diagnosed with a bladder condition a few years back and a lot of the flares I get are from food reactions. In my research regarding my own diet I came across many issues with carrageenan that I wasn't even aware of. It made me start taking a really hard look at labels, for me and my pets. There are a lot, and I mean a lot of companies out there touting they are all natural when they are not. They love to hide ingredients under other names or vague things like, natural flavor, which could be anything. 

Anyway, for me I do not plan on purchasing any canned food for my cats with carrageenan in it which means my options are limited. I wouldn't want anyone to base a decision on whether or not you are okay with carrageenan in you or your pets food from what I have said. I would recommend doing some research of your own and reading information from both sides of the controversy.

Nerina~


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## cinderflower (Apr 22, 2012)

spirite said:


> Someone else here is very leery about carrageenan, though I don't remember who. It's not something that bothers me - I've always felt that if they were to do tests on every food we ingest, invariably they'd find something that was bad for us in each one. But I have noticed that it's in an awful lot of better quality wet foods.
> 
> If carrageenan comes from seaweed, it would surprise me that it's bad healthwise, unless it's in the way it's processed, or what particular seaweed. Seaweed's supposed to be very healthy, isn't it?


i am but there are probably more. my older cat seems to have sensitivities that make her vomit. the vet suspected IBD but i haven't gone through any of the endoscopy/expensive invasive testing, i just opted to experiment with diet first.

this is just an unfounded suspicion i have, not being able to conduct chemistry experiments on the food, but i think it could also have something to do with palatibility. all canned cat food has something to make it taste better, except for the completely bare bones stuff.

it's the way it's processed. i can't remember all the chemical procedures, but kind of like splenda is sucralose which is just chlorinated sucrose, the body doesn't metabolize it so it's non-caloric. however, the debate is whether chlorinated sugar is more harmful to the body than sugar if you're diabetic, and is stevia (truvia) the best alternative. (or none at all.)
carrageenan is not only used for coloring as well as a thickening agent like guar gum. it's also used in vegan or kosher food that requires no animal-based gelatin. carrageenan has been found to cause cancer in some lab animals although i suspect that's at very high levels. it does cause gastric upset in slightly higher percentages, and since my cat has a sensitive digestive tract, i try to avoid it just to be on the safe side.

i'm not sure why it's in so much of the higher end foods, i found that a little strange. it isn't in a lot of the weruva or tiki cat, nor is it in hound & gatos (which i think probably has a high level of fat) but it is in b.f.f. and wellness.


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## scottd (Jun 28, 2011)

I avoid carrageenan for myself and my cat. It is literally in everything. I actually saw that it was listed in the ingredients someone posted for a dry food a couple days ago and I have no clue why.

For wet food, I can see why it's in it but that doesn't mean it should be. It's a gelatin-like substance but it's vegetarian/vegan. As a vegetarian, I find it annoying and wish we had a safe alternative.

It's been linked to causing cancer in more than a few studies.


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## scottd (Jun 28, 2011)

Petcurean reached out to me today to ask how Tina likes their food (This is the first time a company has ever contacted me after I purchased their food, That was a nice surprise.) and I asked their nutritionist about finding an alternative. She said "We have looked at replacing it strictly with guar gum, or a mix of this and tapioca or pea starch, and are in the initial research stages.".

I hope they are able to replace it with something safer!


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## Ragdoll_Joy (Jul 13, 2012)

Ok now I am scared... There is some in my kitten's canned food too!!!! It's the 13th ingredient. Should I start looking for an alternative?  She really likes the food, but is it worth the health risk?!


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## cinderflower (Apr 22, 2012)

scottd said:


> Petcurean reached out to me today to ask how Tina likes their food (This is the first time a company has ever contacted me after I purchased their food, That was a nice surprise.) and I asked their nutritionist about finding an alternative. She said "We have looked at replacing it strictly with guar gum, or a mix of this and tapioca or pea starch, and are in the initial research stages.".
> 
> I hope they are able to replace it with something safer!


i don't know why they can't, unless it has something to do with price (which may very well be the case). xanthan gum, guar gum and locust bean gum are all similar but the truly safest thickening agent would be cornstarch or fruit pectin. i saw pea flour as an ingredient in a food, i think it was fussie cat, and i remember thinking, "wth is that?" lol

as a vegetarian, just don't eat processed food and you won't run into carrageenan.


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## scottd (Jun 28, 2011)

cinderflower said:


> i don't know why they can't, unless it has something to do with price (which may very well be the case). xanthan gum, guar gum and locust bean gum are all similar but the truly safest thickening agent would be cornstarch or fruit pectin. i saw pea flour as an ingredient in a food, i think it was fussie cat, and i remember thinking, "wth is that?" lol
> 
> as a vegetarian, just don't eat processed food and you won't run into carrageenan.


Hopefully, they will be able to change the thickening agent. I don't think price would be an issue. Petcurean is a fairly high end food in my opinion.

I try not to but sometimes I just don't feel preparing a meal!


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## cinderflower (Apr 22, 2012)

scottd said:


> Hopefully, they will be able to change the thickening agent. I don't think price would be an issue. Petcurean is a fairly high end food in my opinion.
> 
> I try not to but sometimes I just don't feel preparing a meal!


i know, it's weird because i've only seen it in the higher end foods, but i haven't read every single cat food label in the world so . . . it just doesn't really make sense to me unless they figure it's in human food so it's good enough for cats. i meant price relative to using cornstarch instead but i don't know the price of either.

being a vegetarian is almost as much work as finding suitable cat food. :daisy


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