# UPDATE- birth & pics! I just brought home a foster preg cat.



## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

And she's wedged herself behind the dryer! 

She's 2 years old and should give birth this week or next week. Her tummy is bulging!

Our "safe room" for her is the laundry room (the only way we can isolate her from the 2 cats we own), and I set up a nesting box for her before I took her out of her carrier. The only problem is, she's been hiding behind the dryer for at least 3 hours, and hasn't eaten, drunk water, or used the litter box at all yet! 

I'm sure she's just scared and needs to feel safe in her surroundings, but since it's so close to the birth, I'm afraid she's nesting and will decide to have her babies behind the dryer, where we can't get to her! 

Should I just leave her alone longer, or should I try to get her out of there? 

Thanks in advance for the help. If you couldn't tell, I joined this forum to get advice on this, and I'll probably be asking a lot of questions while I foster her for the next 2-3 months!


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

*Re: HELP! I just brought home a foster pregnant cat...*

Welcome to CatForum and I hope we can help.
First, it isn't uncommon for cats in a new situation to try to hide and not eat/drink/litterbox for a day, or even 2 days. Anything beyond 2 days is cause for concern and a possible vet visit. I don't think she will birth behind the laundry units, but I would be *very* careful and be absolutely certain no kittens could get into the working mechanisms of the machines when they become mobile.

Here is a link about Pregnant Cat Preparations: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=67472

Once again, welcome to CF. We have a lot of members with experience fostering, birthing and taming ferals. We'll help you all we can, and remember ... no question is a dumb one! We'll help, not hinder your learning efforts.
heidi =^..^=


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

*Re: HELP! I just brought home a foster pregnant cat...*

Thank you, Heidi!

Update: This morning I checked on her; she was behind the dryer still, but in a more relaxed position instead of scared/defensive position. I know she came out of there overnight because some food was gone...and she used the nesting box as a litterbox!!! *facepalm*

I picked up her poo and put it in the actual litterbox (I think that's what I was supposed to do??), and then I discarded the soiled towels, soaked the urine spot on the box with Nature's Miracle (the outside of the box is waterproof- it was a printer box), and lined the box with newspaper and a clean towel. Hopefully I did that okay?? I'm going to be at work and getting home at 4:30ish, so hopefully she'll get the hint where her litter box is supposed to be.

I'm actually considering moving her to our guest bathroom upstairs. The thing is, we've been using that bathroom as a "safe room" for our current 7-month-old cats ever since we got them a month ago, and their litter box and beds are still in there (not that they ever sleep there...). Would it freak out our cats or freak out the mom to put her in the upstairs bathroom and relocate our cats' things to the laundry room? The bathroom I think is better because there's no place for her to hide, but plenty of safe places to have the kittens- like the bathtub! 

I'd appreciate any advice you all have on this matter!


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## Leazie (Apr 14, 2007)

*Re: HELP! I just brought home a foster pregnant cat...*

My thought would be that the bathroom is a better place for Momma and her soon to be family. Give the room a nice cleaning so that the smells from your cats are gone.

It is so wonderful that you have taken Momma into your house.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

*Re: HELP! I just brought home a foster pregnant cat...*

Thanks Leazie! We've decided to definitely move her up to the bathroom. I called Coda and Allegro's vet (they are our two current cats) today to let her know of the situation and get her advice. She suggested to move their litter box to the upstairs loft to start off with, so they don't get too confused when they suddenly can't go in "their" bathroom.

Yeah, we feel kind of inadequate as foster parents, since we've only owned cats for a month now! 

But the local Humane Society (http://www.hamiltonhumane.com) is in a crisis situation- they are way over capacity and have lots of pregnant cats. This cat, Brooke, is healthy, so they wanted her in foster care so that she or her kittens don't catch anything from all the other preggo cats- they're in such close quarters! Crates stacked on top of crates everywhere- hallways, office, kitchen, lobby...

Anyway, we felt we really had to. We have the space, and no kids or dogs. I just want Brooke to be a relaxed and happy momma, and I want to socialize the kittens as much as possible to make them more likely to be adopted. 

I can just see us ending up adopting either Brooke or 1-2 of the kittens, though...


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## Leazie (Apr 14, 2007)

*Re: HELP! I just brought home a foster pregnant cat...*

3 of my cats are ones that we fostered. We consider ourselves foster failures :lol:


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

*Re: HELP! I just brought home a foster pregnant cat...*

Oh boy! Well, for being so new to cat ownership, I think you guys are doing amazingly well, you've got *great* instincts ... as evidenced by putting the misplaced poo IN the litterbox to help Brooke recognize its' use. I also like that you'll be moving her upstairs to the bathroom as I've used my own bathroom to raise kittens, both litters w/ a mamma, foster-kittens and orphans. 

I would like to suggest, before you move Brooke up there, that you have her nesting Rubbermaid set up so she *does* have a place to hide and feel secure. If she is completely exposed, it will stress her out, until she learns she can trust your home and the room she is in. I like to place the litterbox in the bathtub so scattered litter is easy to sweep up and put back in the l-box. When the kittens become mobile, you can switch and put their sleeping area in the tub to give them room to move/play, yet keep them contained. When they're big enough to get out of the tub then they'll be all over the room!

I've only kept the adult cats I've trapped and fostered, never any of the kittens. For me, I think I go into it with the mind-set of "these are NOT my animals, they belong to the organization I got them from." I also know that the work I do with them, raising them in my home, helps them to be able to find homes of their own and I can continue to foster more kittens. They are a joy to raise.
Best of luck!
h =^..^=


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

*Re: HELP! I just brought home a foster pregnant cat...*

Thank you, Heidi! I sure hope it works!

Good idea about the litter in the tub- do you think Brooke will be able to easily get in and out of the tub in her condition, though? Coda and Allegro never have a problem with it, but I wonder if she would. It's a standard built-in tub height- I'd guess that the rim of the tub is 1.5-2 feet high? Maybe if there was something solid that's half the height of the rim for her to use as a stepping stool? I want to make sure that going to the potty is easy for her and not an additional source of stress. Should I put the nesting box in the bathtub instead since it's the farthest space from the door? 

As soon as I leave work, I'm going to pick up a Feliway plug-in to help calm her down, and pick up some extra towels/blankets from the Humane Society (that's one item that they have TOO much of!). 

Then I will come home, clean out the bathroom asap, move the cats' things, and set up the Rubbermaid box and litterbox upstairs. I want to get her in there asap because like I said, the kittens are coming SOON! I'm guessing by Saturday (though I have no experience with this).


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

*Re: HELP! I just brought home a foster pregnant cat...*

Unless she has mobility issues, being pregnant shouldn't stop her from being able to hop to the toilet lid ... Oh! KEEP that toilet lid DOWN to prevent any accidental dunkings or drownings! _Hubby went to play with the kittens, used the toilet and didn't close the lid._ I came in a bit later to find a soaked and crying kitten in the bowl! ... or even to, or over, the tub-rim. Give her a scratch-post, too. With my kittens, I would place a scratch post, laying down, in the tub and outside the tub to give them easier access up/over until they were big enough to jump on their own. 
What I liked about my tub, was closing the drain kept any scattered litter in the tub and not able to go down and clog my drain. I kept a small whisk broom and pan in there. Easy to swill clean in case of an accident. 
When I was bottle feeding, I could put all the kittens in the tub to play and pluck them out one at a time to feed. When they got big enough to jump and hook their claws in my jeans, I stopped sitting on the edge and shortly after that it was time to wean, so I loved my tub! It really was a help.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

*Re: HELP! I just brought home a foster pregnant cat...*

Fortunately it truly is an unused guest bathroom...hubby sometimes brushed his teeth in there or used the restroom before we got our cats, but since we got them we haven't used it at all...they have taken it over!  It usually smells bad in there anyway, despite us scooping 3x a day, so I don't think anyone would WANT to use it.  So definitely no danger of the toilet lid EVER being open.

Ok, sounds like the litter box in the tub is a good idea. 

I got her a corrugated cardboard scratcher- hoping it's enough b/c we don't have the funds to buy yet another scratching post (we've spent over $1000 on our cats, between supplies, toys, adoption, and vet bills-our girl had poop problems a few wks ago--and that's just in the first month!), and the ones we have (a cat tree, 2 scratch mats, and a short post that is built in to a "kitty hideaway") have been thoroughly used by our cats, so their scent has permeated them. I also put some squares of cardboard out for her to play with, along with 2-3 toys (a stuffed mouse, a crinkle ball, and another stuffed thing- all very quiet).


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

*Re: HELP! I just brought home a foster pregnant cat...*

I think that all sounds good! Sounds like you're ready. I also wouldn't worry about letting her use things your own cats have used. They are going to *know* there are other cats in the home and they will be able to detect their scents, so as long as everyone is healthy, a _used_ post shouldn't be much of an issue.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

*Re: HELP! I just brought home a foster pregnant cat...*

Ah, ok, thanks!


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

*Re: HELP! I just brought home a foster pregnant cat...*

UPDATE!!

I came home from work to a box with pee in it again and a food bowl that looked untouched...so she did not eat a THING since this morning...I think it's going to happen soon! When I saw that, I hurried SO FAST to get things ready! She was still behind the dryer, so I am sure she was planning to have the kittens there (especially since she keeps peeing in the cardboard box we had for her). I did NOT want that to happen- totally dusty and dirty back there, paint chips, dangerous for kittens, inaccessible, etc. It was necessary to move her to an upstairs bathroom that was only used for our current cats' litterbox and beds. It would be so much safer and warmer- no kitties stuck under the dryer!

I then cleaned out the bathroom (no chemicals, just pet-safe cleaner), made a new nesting box out of a large Rubbermaid storage container (cleaned out) by having DH cut a large enough hole for her to enter and exit, filing down the rough edges of the hole, and putting the lid on it, and I lined it with towels-- this was Heidi's suggestion. She still has food just outside the nesting box and plenty of fresh, filtered water (it's in one of those water-cooler dispenser things), along with her litter box in the bathtub, a couple of stuffed mice, cardboard scratcher and mini sisal scratch toy. We put her back in her cardboard carrier (poor thing was meowing in an apprehensive way as soon as she got put in), and released her in her new-and-improved safe room. She immediately made for the new nesting box and hid in there! Yess! It looks like she likes it.

I turned the light out (there's a nightlight in there so she has something to see by) to make her more relaxed. I still have to pick up that Feliway plug-in. 

I'm thinking it will happen either by tomorrow morning or tomorrow night at the very latest. So nervous!


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## Leazie (Apr 14, 2007)

*Re: HELP! I just brought home a foster pregnant cat...*

Sounds like you have made some positive changes today. You and hubby are kitty heroes.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

*Re: HELP! I just brought home a foster pregnant cat...*

Thank you ! I'm just a lot less worried now that I know she's in a safe place. The shelter foster person said that she'll pretty much do everything herself.

The only thing that I regret is that we didn't get to spend much time with her before she got SOOOO far into the pregnancy. Therefore she doesn't really have a bond to us.. do you guys think she will recognize us as the people who keep her safe/feed her, and trust us?

Bonus pics of our current cats:

The boy, Allegro:









Both of them in the cat tree (the girl, Coda, is in the back):


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## Leazie (Apr 14, 2007)

*Re: HELP! I just brought home a foster pregnant cat...*

Your kids are adorable.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

*Re: HELP! I just brought home a foster pregnant cat...*

Your kitties are beautiful. I love the orange ones. :luv 
...and I think, even though you've got your foster-girl late in her pregnancy, that you can still bond with her. Go in and visit with her, talk gently to her, pet her if she'll allow it, slow-play with dragging strings or feathers and maybe offer her some tasty treats? When I brought my Shadow inside, I think I only had her inside for about 7-10dys before she kittened. 
She ended up bonding with us so well that she did *terribly* at the adoption weekend after her litter was raised/weaned and she was spayed. When I went to pick her up, the volunteer told me she'd hid the whole time and when I spoke, she heard my voice, rushed to the front of the cage, stretching her paws to me and meowing her little head off. The volunteer was surprised and said that was the most she'd seen Shadow do all weekend and that it was obvious that Shadow had made *her* choice. She wanted to come HOME, so the husband and I kept her. She is the only one of my fosters that we have kept for ourselves.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

*Re: HELP! I just brought home a foster pregnant cat...*

Thanks guys! They are so precious to us- last night we started tearing up while watching them sleep. :') Heidi- that's such a SWEET, wonderful story about Shadow! We're kind of hoping that we get really attached to Brooke or one of the kittens, so that we can adopt a 3rd cat. I think the HSHC Foster program is hoping that we just keep fostering pregnant moms, though... I can tell that from talking with them. We'll have to see how this one goes.

No news with Brooke. Before I went to bed, I saw that she used the new nesting box to pee in AGAIN! She pooped in the litter box, though, so at least there's that. 

I cleaned the bottom of the container, put down fresh newspaper and towel, and then decided to tear off the pieces of urine-soaked newspaper from the old bedding and place them in the litterbox. 

She's started to eat again! It looks like the not eating wasn't her about to kitten- it was probably just the anxiety of a new place.

She keeps hanging out in the bathtub (which currently houses the litterbox at the far end) or behind the toilet. Fortunately, none of these places are places where we can't get to her if need be, and every surface of that bathroom is clean. 

She's definitely still scared- when I scooped up the poop in her litter box last night, she freaked out at the noise, scampered to the other end of the tub, and started shaking and meowing! Poor honey.  I just want her to feel relaxed and good about this. Still need to pick up and install a Feliway plug-in today--do you guys think that will help??

I sat in the room with her last night for about 30 minutes, just sitting by the doorway and reading a book and occasionally talking to her in a soothing voice. I did crawl over to her- at her eye level- and when I saw that she looked relaxed and was blinking slowly, I scratched behind her ears. She purred and seemed to like it, since she lifted up her chin, which I started scratching, and then closed her eyes and rolled on her side so that her belly was facing me. I took that opportunity to look at her nipples. She let me lightly stroke her belly. Her nipples are enlarged/swollen, but still pink. I think I read that they're supposed to get red when it's almost time??

So she seems to like me touching her, but for whatever reason, is still scared. 

My cats are being really good, but when I'm in the room with her, they sit outside the room, meowing. They do this WHENEVER we go in another room and close the door- whether it be a bathroom, closet, office, etc. They (especially our boy) cannot stand to be on the other side of a doorway from us. Any suggestions? I think their meowing and close proximity might have been scaring Brooke...


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

*Re: HELP! I just brought home a foster pregnant cat...*

Oh, Brooke sounds so sweet! :luv I think she *wants* to trust you, she's slow-blinking, purring and even showed and allowed you to touch her belly! That is a *great* sign of trust from a cat! I think she is still unsure of her surroundings, she's had a LOT of changes in just a few days. I think if you keep visiting and petting her, it will help her to relax and become more openly demonstrative. When you scopp, or do anything that may startle her, move as slowly as you can to make the action as non-threatening as possible ... but also talk to her, tell her about what you are doing. I know it sounds kooky, but I feel that even if cats cannot understand our words, they can understand our meaning and intent. I also happen to believe that as bonds grow, understanding does, too.

The peeing in the nest-box is bothersome and I wonder if it is possible she could have a UTI from stress. Is the litterbox a tray or is it covered like the nest-box? Maybe if it is open, she would prefer a hooded box? If it is already hooded, she may need the shelter vet to check her for a UTI.
That's all the suggestions I've got...
h =^..^=


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

*Re: HELP! I just brought home a foster pregnant cat...*

Update:

My husband wakes up at least 2 hours after I do (I get to work at 6), and he went to check on Brooke. She was behind the toilet again, but he crouched down and started petting her. She purred for him, too, and then-AMAZINGLY-she crawled out from behind the toilet and started rubbing herself all over his legs and purring. I am so glad that she's starting to trust us and come out of her shell! Plus, no urinating in the nesting box overnight. 

I'll see if she peed in there while we're at work today- if she's still doing it, I'll have to do something else for a litterbox. Right now the litter box is an open tray, so we can try doing a closed one. I'm hoping that the peed-upon newspapers placed in the litterbox has helped her understand. 

Thank you so much for your continued help!


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

*Re: HELP! I just brought home a foster pregnant cat...*

Yay! Wow, you guys have made amazing progress with her in such a short amount of time! I've noticed it takes some of our fosters longer to warm up to my husband. He doesn't spend as much time with them as I do, but the bold ones have no problem ... it is the shy ones I ask him to work with a little more. If we can get them comfortable around *all* people, they are more adoptable. 

I also wanted to comment, because it almost seems like your husband and you have some "natural talent" going on. I can see why the shelter would like to keep you both as a foster-home in their system. I am *really* enjoying reading your updates with Brooke and I look forward to hearing more as she progresses with you both.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

*Re: HELP! I just brought home a foster pregnant cat...*

Thank you, Heidi! It's good to know that we're doing okay. My husband, at first, was like "Molly, we don't know ANYTHING about pregnant cats..."

We had a "head start" with Brooke, though, because she had previously lived with humans before she was dumped at the shelter. She wasn't feral or a stray. So she was probably missing human contact (poor thing! That's what gets me the most- seeing the cats that lived with a family before, and the family gave her up due to "moving" or "unwanted", etc. WHY would you give up a family member you've had for years??). 

Here's an update- still no kittens, but no peeing in the nesting box, either! I put another towel down under the one that was already there to make it more comfy without blocking her scent which was probably all over the pink towel. 

She's eating voraciously. About 1 cup of dry food a day, plus 3 ounces of canned kitty food that's split into AM and PM servings. Last night, when I brought the canned food in, she started meowing in a happy/impatient tone, and I put some on my finger and drew her slowly out from behind the toilet by moving my finger while she licked the food off of it. She then chowed down and let me pet her while she ate. 

My husband showed me what he did- he sat on the edge of the tub and started petting her. I tried the same thing, and as soon as I started scratching behind her ear, she got up and started rubbing herself all over my hands and legs. (this was last night AND this morning)

She then goes behind the toilet again and rolls onto her back. She LOVES it when we stroke and scratch her belly, so she does that a lot. She also purrs constantly, which I read is something they do in the late stages of pregnancy.

When I scooped her litter box, she didn't react in a scared manner like she did last time. I tried talking to her, explaining that I was getting it cleaned up for her, so that might have helped. She is still a little scared when we stand up to leave, even when we do it slowly and talk to her about it. 

Our next hope is that she will come out from behind the toilet as soon as we come in the room, but that might be expecting too much of her. What do you think?


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## Leazie (Apr 14, 2007)

*Re: HELP! I just brought home a foster pregnant cat...*

She is doing really well :luv . I wonder if she just likes lying behind the toilet because it is cool back there? At least she is not cowering in fear.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

*Re: HELP! I just brought home a foster pregnant cat...*

I think you're right, Leazie. She seems to just hang out back there. It's not that hot in our house though...we keep it at around 71 degrees (admittedly, it's a few degrees warmer upstairs).


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

*Re: HELP! I just brought home a foster pregnant cat...*



paperbacknovel said:


> Our next hope is that she will come out from behind the toilet as soon as we come in the room, but that might be expecting too much of her. What do you think?


First: Yay! For her coming out and loving/rubbing on you!
Next: Yes, right now it may be expecting too much for her to come out when you go in ... BUT ... you guys have made such amazing progress, I see this continuing and before you know it, I think she WILL be coming out to greet you, or even just hanging-out in the open and waiting for you! The more good experiences she has with you both, the more relaxed and confident she will become. You guys are doing so well with her!
h =^..^=


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

*Re: HELP! I just brought home a foster pregnant cat...*

:yikes :yikes :yikes :yikes :yikes :yikes :luv :luv :luv :luv :luv 

BROOKE IS HAVING HER BABIES RIGHT NOW!

I came home from work and saw her in the LITTERBOX with two kittens suckling, an orange kitty and a brown/gray tabby that looks like her. 

I called my vet and she said to move them to the nesting box, because the litter box had poop in it and it wasn't a good environment for having kitties.

They said to pick up Brooke first and then transfer the two kitties. I felt bad because their little umbilical cords had litter stuck to them . 

About 20 minutes later, my husband and I watched her have Kitty 3! It was so amazing and beautiful watching her lick the kitty and hearing its cries. The kitties are so precious!

Hubby left, and I stayed with her while she ate the placenta from Kitty 3, and then had Kitty 4 (both look like her). 

She's resting now, so I left to post here. Her tummy is still big-ish, so I'm thinking she might have 1 or 2 more in there. She's being such a good mommy!

The first two are getting so fat with milk.


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## Leazie (Apr 14, 2007)

*Re: HELP! I just brought home a foster pregnant cat...*

How exciting that Brooke has had some of her babies. She sounds like a really good Momma so far.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

*Re: HELP! I just brought home a foster pregnant cat...*



Leazie said:


> How exciting that Brooke has had some of her babies. She sounds like a really good Momma so far.



Thanks! I keep telling her that.  She lets me pet her head and scratch behind her ear. She loves me scratching under her chin. I'm surprised she's letting us touch her. I was able to rearrange her legs to let the kittens get to her nipples easier after I transferred them to the nesting box, and she didn't react at all. 

I'm hoping this means she trusts us.  I've taken some pictures (and a video of #3 being born), so I'll post them later!!!


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## Leazie (Apr 14, 2007)

*Re: HELP! I just brought home a foster pregnant cat...*

I think it definitely means that she trusts you. It has to make her feel good that you are there with her, and that she is having her babies in such a safe place.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

*Re: HELP! I just brought home a foster pregnant cat...*

Thanks, that makes me feel good. 

My DH just checked on her and noticed that one of the kitties isn't feeding right now (having trouble finding a teat). When should we be worried?


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## Leazie (Apr 14, 2007)

*Re: HELP! I just brought home a foster pregnant cat...*

I have never had a fresh Momma and babies, so I don't know for sure, but I think it is ok if they are not nursing all the time. Have you seen this baby latch on and nurse at all?

I'm hoping someone with more experience jumps on tonight to help you better!


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

*Re: HELP! I just brought home a foster pregnant cat...*

I think so, but it's hard to tell. He is Kitty 4. His belly looks a LITTLE full (like he's at least had SOME), but def. not as full as kitties 1 or 2. Kitty 3 is in between, which would make sense. The orange one keeps going at it and he's getting so fat.

I'll go check on her and see if any more have come. It could be that she's done- do they still have full-ish bellies after all the babies are out? She just seems really tired.


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## Leazie (Apr 14, 2007)

*Re: HELP! I just brought home a foster pregnant cat...*

Poor Momma. I am not sure about how her belly should look directly after birthing, but she certainly won't have a trim belly right away.

Keep a eye on baby #4 to see if he does latch on at some point.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

*Re: HELP! I just brought home a foster pregnant cat...*

OK, I'm pretty sure she's done at 4. She's resting and the kittens are feeding. #4 was hanging out by her tail, nowhere near the teats. I picked him up and moved him into the pile, and he immediately started fighting for a teat. So that's good. She didn't react when I picked up the kitty, and didn't even move a muscle when I lightly stroked each kitty on the top of the head. 

I keep talking to her, telling her what a good mother she is, how beautiful her kittens are, etc. She just lays there, eyes closed or blinking, and her purring increases when I scratch her under the chin.

She seems so tired. The only thing I am currently worried about is the 4th placenta. I don't know if it came out while I was downstairs for 45 minutes. I know it's not good if it stays in. I just know that before I went downstairs, her tail was still lifted and I could see part of the placenta part-way out, so I'm hoping that since NOW her tail isn't lifted that it already came out. Does that make sense?


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

*Re: HELP! I just brought home a foster pregnant cat...*

PIC!

This is a quickie taken w/ my cell phone cam. Good pictures to come later.
This was taken about 15 minutes ago:


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## my5kitties (Sep 13, 2005)

*Re: HELP! I just brought home a foster pregnant cat...*



paperbacknovel said:


> PIC!
> 
> This is a quickie taken w/ my cell phone cam. Good pictures to come later.
> This was taken about 15 minutes ago:


It didn't show up.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

*Re: HELP! I just brought home a foster pregnant cat...*



my4kitties said:


> paperbacknovel said:
> 
> 
> > PIC!
> ...


Hmm, lemme try another way:


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## my5kitties (Sep 13, 2005)

*Re: HELP! I just brought home a foster pregnant cat...*



paperbacknovel said:


> my4kitties said:
> 
> 
> > paperbacknovel said:
> ...


Oh. My. Gosh!...the cuteness...I can't stand it!! **THUD!!!!**

Gets up and rubs my head...

wha' happened? I was looking at these kittens right here and...uh-oh, feeling faint from the cuteness overload again. LOLOLOL!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

*Re: HELP! I just brought home a foster pregnant cat...*

LOL, better put some pillows on the ground if you're going to keep falling! :lol: 

Really, though, they ARE soooo beautiful and precious. We love just looking at them, watching them feed. Their faces with the little closed eyes are so adorable!


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## Leazie (Apr 14, 2007)

4 absolutely perfect angels, one extraordinary Momma, and 2 human heroes for allowing these new lives to have the best start possible. Sounds like perfect equation to me.


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

OMG, soooooooooo cute!!!!  

momma looks quite relaxed! (sorry, didnt quite read all posts). Such cute babies too  Im so glad your taking care of her!


PS: Allegro and Coda, do we have a musician on our hands? lol.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

:luv Quick! Throw a pillow down for me, too! *thud* I guess that's what I get for looking at kitty pics so late when the people with the pillows are asleep. *rubs head* 

They look beautiful, and BIG! I'll just *bet* she's tired out! Wonderful that she decided to trust you guys and allows you full access. See? You guys DO have The Magic Touch!
h


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## gunterkat (Aug 19, 2006)

ow! *rubs head*

forgot to put down pillows before looking at the pics. What a beautiful little family! :luv
You and your hubby do have The Magic, paperbacknovel


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Thank you so very much, everyone! I am so glad that everyone came out ok (literally). 

This morning, I checked on her again, and all 4 kittens were okay! She seemed worn out and hadn't left the box to eat, drink, or eliminate, so when I put the canned food in her bowl, I brought a spoonful to her in the box, which she ate off the spoon. I sat down and talked to her, pet her and stroked the kittens, and she got up! Heidi was right, the opening in the box allows her to knock off any kittens that were holding on (and the kittens, alone in their box, were so cute with their mewing and flailing!)

I thought she was getting up to eat more, but instead she rubbed against my legs and hand! I pet her some more, and then she went back into the box and laid down to feed them some more.

I almost cried...she got up from feeding her kittens to greet me! :luv 


In other news, Coda and Allegro slept with us again last night. Coda slept at the foot of the bed almost all night, but Allegro (he is so ADD) does this thing were sometime in the middle of the night he wriggles up between me and hubby, purring like a diesel engine, his face right up to ours, noses touching. He gets really affectionate and wants his belly and chin rubbed. He cuddles us on all sides for about 30-40 minutes, then goes back to the foot of the bed. 

And that's not all he did last night! Hubby woke up this morning and found that Allegro had chewed and scratched his glasses up. :yikes Oh well hubby, that's what you get for not putting your glasses in a drawer!

(And you're right, Claiken--both hubby and I are musical.)


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## Leazie (Apr 14, 2007)

LOL...the sign of a true cat lover is when you get upset at hubby for leaving his glasses out :lol: . 

Isn't it nice when your kitties sleep with you? And how sweet that Allegro has to get his Mommy and Daddy fix in the middle of the night :luv .

Brooke sounds like she has really fallen in love with you. Heidi has hit the nail on the head when she says that you have the touch.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

paperbacknovel said:


> I almost cried...she got up from feeding her kittens to greet me! :luv


 :luv SWEET! :luv


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Thanks, Leazie! 

I'm wondering if I should change the bedding? The towel that they're laying on isn't -dirty- but it's a little stained from the birth.

I'd think yes but that would get rid of their mommy-baby smell....

Good news! She peed in the litterbox finally! Woo!

All babies are still healthy and cute. I'll leave them be for another day or so, but soon I'll post baby face pics. Don't want Mr. Camera to scare them!

Bonus pic- my hubby took this picture and added the text at the bottom. Coda and Allegro in a perfect pose at sunset:

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view


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## jusjim (Jun 30, 2009)

Love that bonus picture. The expressions are marvelous.


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## Leazie (Apr 14, 2007)

Your house is filled with cuteness :luv


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

Awesome pic of Coda and Allegro. :luv 

...it is okay to change the towel. _The mamma and the babies will all still smell the same and they will transfer their scent on the fresh towel in short order. I think the scent issue is probably most important with outdoor nests, so mom and babies can stay where they need to be and/or find each other._


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Thanks, guys! 

Coda and Allegro KNOW that they're gorgeous, I think. Allegro is my handsome boy and Coda is my dainty princess, and they've been told that often enough!


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Kitties are still healthy and adorable!

Brooke got out of the box to greet me and eat the canned food I put in her bowl. The kitties were left in a pile in the box, sleeping. I SO WISHED I had my camera!! They were so cute! They are getting bigger every time I go in there, I swear. 

I am worried about Brooke- she's sneezing a bit. Any tips?


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## Leazie (Apr 14, 2007)

Keep an eye on Brooke to see if she progresses with her sneezing, etc. Maybe it's just a little dust up her nose (fingers crossed for that). Just in case she is getting sick make sure that you wash your hands well after being with her and before going out to your own kitties.


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## OctoberinMaine (Sep 12, 2006)

This is the first I've seen of this thread, and wanted to congratulate you and Brooke on everything! You're doing absolutely great. The picture of Brooke with the kittens was too cute to believe -- and everyone looks healthy and content. Can't wait to see more pictures!


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

im also waiting for kitten face pics  Glad to hear mommy is eating and using the litter, all seems well besides maybe a bit tired


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Thank you, Leazie, October, and Claiken!

She was sneezing a little still last night. I can't tell whether it's something in her nose or what, but I'll let the foster coordinator know today so that she can get medicine if she needs it. I didn't get to spend a lot of time w/ Brooke this morning (work at 6am again- oh boy!), but it was so sweet what she did! When I came in the room, she climbed out of the box (kitties sleeping in a pile again- SO CUTE!), and took a few steps over to me. I thought she was interested in the food, so I put the canned food in her bowl. However, she didn't eat right away- she wanted to rub her head against my hand first! So I pet her a few times until she started eating. 

I was trying to leave her alone with the babies (maybe a total of 10-20 minutes a day for petting her) because I know the first few days are important for her to feed them and bond and all that good stuff. It looks like she's craving more attention, though!

I'll be sure to get kitten face pics this afternoon! I keep forgetting my dang camera when I go up there, and I've been trying to disturb them as little as possible.


ETA: OK, the shelter wants me to bring Brooke in tomorrow evening to get her possible cold checked out. Hope she's okay.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

I'm sure she'll be fine. It is *fabulous* that you'll be taking her in right away so if it *is* a problem, she can be treated right away before it debilitates her or her litter. _If you bring her and her litter, transport them in separate carriers so she doesn't accidentally step on them if she is a nervous traveler._


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Heidi n Q said:


> I'm sure she'll be fine. It is *fabulous* that you'll be taking her in right away so if it *is* a problem, she can be treated right away before it debilitates her or her litter. _If you bring her and her litter, transport them in separate carriers so she doesn't accidentally step on them if she is a nervous traveler._


Thanks Heidi. I checked with the shelter and they said to bring her alone, since she wouldn't be gone that long. Hubby will stay with kittens to make sure they stay out of trouble in their box.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

Sounds good!


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Another update:

I came home and visited Brooke and the kitties in their bathroom. When I came in, Brooke got up and came to greet me at the door! Her tail was STRAIGHT UP and vibrating like mad! I squatted down and she purred and rubbed her head and body all over me. She did this for 7-10 minutes before she started eating her food. What a total sweetheart. I bet she was lonely. 

I also noticed that she started sneezing A LOT. But she was so polite- she'd always walk a bit away from me to have a sneezing fit, and when she was done, she'd come right back for more lovin'. I'm so glad that I have an appointment with the shelter vet tomorrow, but I'm panicking a little. Is there anything I can do for her??? She's sneezing CONSTANTLY.

I also noticed, since she was walking on the bathroom floor and not staying in her nesting box, that she's bleeding. Blood- not thick red blood, mind you, but more watery- was dripping a bit on the floor and running down her leg a bit, and it's definitely originating from her vagina. Is she in heat? I've never had an animal be in heat before since ours have always been spayed/neutered... I'll definitely have the vet check that out, too. Poor Brooke.  I feel so bad for her and don't know what to do.

So I wanted to change the towel since it's gotten kind of gross, so while Brooke was eating, I picked up the kitties and placed them on a paper towel in the bathroom sink (plugged up). Before I put all of them in, I got pics! (see below). Brooke was definitely checking to make sure all of them were there, but she had no reaction to me picking them up. I always made sure to pet her and talk to her in between petting the kitties, to reassure her that I was taking care of all of them and not stealing her babies or something. It seemed like she knew that I wasn't going to hurt her or them, which is amazing that she's become so trusting of a human in such a short time, especially when going through such a stressful situation. It helps that she wasn't a stray or feral. 

She's still licking them and watching them to make sure they're all finding a teat, even while she's having sneezing attacks and in heat. She's such a good mommy...I almost cried watching her take care of them.

I had my cell phone with me, so I got some pictures finally! This should be all four of them, but it's hard to tell when they're in a squirming pile and 3 look almost exactly the same so far...
http://img.makeupalley.com/3/7/7/1/1669144.JPG

http://img.makeupalley.com/3/7/7/1/1669143.JPG

http://img.makeupalley.com/3/7/7/1/1669142.JPG

http://img.makeupalley.com/3/7/7/1/1669141.JPG

And all four with Brooke (poor girl is so worn out!):
http://img.makeupalley.com/3/7/7/1/1669140.JPG


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## Kattt (Dec 20, 2008)

Aww so cute! I love the last one, where mom is cuddling/feeding the babies.

I hope Brooke is ok, and its nothing serious when she goes for her vet visit tomorrow. Good luck, keep us updated.

And it sounds like Brooke has bonded, and maybe found a permanent home?!


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## Leazie (Apr 14, 2007)

I think that you have a new friend :luv . Brooke sure sounds like she loves you. I hope that the vet helps her to feel better tomorrow, the poor little thing.

The babies are beyond adorable.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Kattt said:


> Aww so cute! I love the last one, where mom is cuddling/feeding the babies.
> 
> I hope Brooke is ok, and its nothing serious when she goes for her vet visit tomorrow. Good luck, keep us updated.
> 
> And it sounds like Brooke has bonded, and maybe found a permanent home?!


Thanks!

I don't know...I do love her, but the foster coordinators basically told us they'd rather that we continued to foster since the need is so desperate. 

The only way we'd keep her is if she got along with our cats (and vice versa), and if she was having trouble bonding with anyone else, like Shadow with Heidi. Like...she'd have to be having trouble at the shelter for us to keep her, I think. We have to be realistic about the financial needs of a cat- we want to be able to provide them with whatever medical care they would need, and I know we'll feel like we want to adopt EVERY cat we foster! :'(

In other news, we're getting bad t-storms and tornadoes in central Indiana, and the storm is heading our way and will hit where we are in the next few minutes. I will probably go visit Brooke periodically, because I'm sure she's scared. The wind and thunder are bad.


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## Leazie (Apr 14, 2007)

I pray that you are all safe tonight.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Thank you! It SEEMS to be over, or at least the worst part is. I went up to Brooke and the kittens, and I'm glad I was there, because a bolt of lightning struck REALLY close to us and made the house vibrate, and Brooke had a really panicky look in her eyes. 

Kittens are getting bigger and staying healthy.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

Oh, sweet mamma and babies! :luv 

Stay safe with the storm. We had a pop-up thunderstorm this afternoon that dropped a tremendous crack and boom of thunder. It didn't shake the house but the kitties sleeping on the desk leapt off and scattered to under-the-bed/couch hide-outs. I walked around saying soothingly: "It's alright babies, it's okay.  It's all outside, let me check the weather channel to see what they say about it." My husband called to check on us (he's so sweet!) and by then, everyone had calmed down ... they weren't fuzzed or wild-eyed any longer. The fosters didn't seem phased at all, they were all still asleep when I checked on them.

Brooke's discharge appears to be normal for post delivery. If it were thick, discolored and/or had an odor to it, I'd be worried ... but it seems like thin and watery/reddish would be normal. _Members who have bred cats would know better than I, though._ The vets will check her out when they examine her sneezing. My sneezing fosters are doing very well after only 24hrs on antibiotics. They are still sniffling/sneezing, but the gunk is not as thick so it is easier for them to clear their breathing passages.

I also understand about the organization wanting to keep you as a foster-home. I'm telling you, you guys seem to have The Touch and foster organizations LOVE people like you because you can help them help so many animals. I hope she is able to go on and find a loving home, and I am certain she will remember you always if/when she does. 
Something that helps me to turn my fosters over to the organization I work with ... is I tell myself these animals are NOT mine, they belong to the organization, and my job is to socialize them and teach them about loving people so they can be adopted. To date, Shadow is the only one who had a problem and the other adult ferals we kept were TNRs here at our property and took anywhere from a year to 4 years for me to socialize and bring into our home. My adoption/rescue organization likes for me to have a fast turn-around so I can help them help as many kittens and cats as we possibly can.
Great pics, btw!
h =^..^=


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## P&R (Sep 10, 2009)

The kittens are beautiful! Good luck with them!


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

i dont think i could ever not keep her, from how attached she seems to you. But, thats just me  id have probably a million cats someday if thye all got along and i had money.... and space. lol!

babies are adorable!! Not quite eyes yet... that will be interesting.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Thanks, you guys!

I'm staying home from work today, I think. I'm trying to get Brooke in earlier.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Ugh, feeling so sick today. Waiting for the shelter to call me back.

So, I've been thinking....all my life, I thought I was a dog person. My mom is allergic to cats and she knew some pretty grumpy cats, so I was raised thinking that cats were selfish and aloof, if not outright mean. My mom doesn't *hate* cats- she just thinks dogs mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm2;.lllhglk;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;make nicer pets. 78 nnnnnnnnn

Okay, that was Allegro walking over the keyboard. He just farted in my face while cuddling me. Lovely. 

Anyway, our cats are so affectionate, loving, sweet, and cuddly...as much as I love my dog, who lives with my parents, I feel like dogs like you because of hierarchy...I'm part of the pack, and rank above them. Plus, my dog honestly loves everybody. Cats, on the other hand, are more selective, and when a cat likes you, I feel like it's really a compliment. At this point, I feel like my cats could do ANYTHING, including murder, and I'd just say "MY LITTLE SWEETHEARTS!!!" I'm one of THOSE PEOPLE, who think their kitties Can Do No Wrong.

My husband thinks that I've been a Cat Person all along, but never got the chance to realize it because I never had cats until now. What do you guys think?


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

Because of the natural ability you and your husband share ... I'm gonna agree with him and say you were a cat person all along and just didn't have the opportunity to realize it. :wink:


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## Leazie (Apr 14, 2007)

Yup, closet cat person!! You are a natural at this stuff.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

<3 Yay!

So I called the shelter and left messages at both the front desk and at the foster coordinator voicemail, plus emailed the foster coordinators, and still haven't heard back. (I'm trying to see if I can bring Brooke in earlier since I took the day off of work.) 

It looks like I won't be taking her in 'til 5:30, which is the appointed time. Oh well, I needed the day off, anyway. Bad cramps. :'(

Coda and Allegro are like heating pads, though.  Coda is sleeping at my feet right now, and she looks so tiny and fragile! She's such a little princess. 

I'd visit Brooke some more, but each time I go in there, she gets up out of the box to see me, which sets her off on a sneezing attack. She still walks like she's sore, too.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

I'm afraid that all the good rapport I built up with Brooke has been reversed. 

I went in there to put her in her cardboard carrier (to take her to the shelter for her appointment), and she was behind the toilet, with the babies in the nesting box. She's been hanging out there sometimes when I come in, and the kitties are sleeping. I do come in when she's nursing them too, so I think she's been going back there to get a break from 24/7 kitty-time. 

I was worried because she meowed when I came in, but it sounded like a pathetic little sick moan. Then, as has become usual, she came out and greeted me with nuzzles. Her eyes were watery and she was sneezing a lot. I talked to her, explaining that we were going to check her out with the doctor, but that we'd come back to her kittens very soon. I tried to gently pick her up to put her in the carrier, and she started flailing and meowing plaintively. I tried to pet her and talk to her, but she started shaking. I tried to lower her into the box, but she jumped out of my arms, kicked the box away, and SCAMPERED into the nesting box, shaking. I waited a few minutes, approached her, talking softly, petted her (she didn't shy away from my hand or anything), and then tried to pick her up again. This time she let me, but as soon as she got into the box, she started doing her moan-meow. It sounded so pathetic. I felt like some cruel person for taking her away from her babies.  They slept through the whole thing.

At the shelter, they checked her out and gave her an antibiotic shot that they said would last for 2 weeks. If she continues to be sneezing a lot in a week, I'm to bring her back.

The vet checked her out, and said that the bleeding seemed to be normal afterbirth. They also discovered a little lump near one of the teats close to her genitals that they said looked like a mammary infection- they said if I had touched that when I lifted her up, it may have been why she freaked. The vet also said that even though she'd had an owner, it seems like she is semi-feral, like the owner just left her outside all the time and/or didn't really socialize her...which she thinks is another reason why she might be skittish.

Anyway, I'll be checking the lump and making sure it doesn't get bigger or harder- if it does, she needs to go back for tests.

Husband spent some time up there this evening just watching them and petting Brooke, and everybody seemed normal, so we'll see how things go...


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## Leazie (Apr 14, 2007)

That had to be traumatic for both of you. I am sure that once she starts to feel better she will thank you for taking her to the mean old vet.


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## P&R (Sep 10, 2009)

Poor baby! Here's hoping it's nothing bad and she feels better soon!


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Brooke hasn't really been eating lately. She doesn't touch her food in the day, and in the afternoon/evening she only comes out to eat when I'm there, sitting in front of the nesting box. She does eat overnight, but not a lot. 

The foster coordinator called, and I updated her on Brooke's condition. She suggested I try different foods in different bowls. She said that Brooke probably had the URI before she came to my house, and once she started birthing and nursing, her immune system was down (because she was giving everything she had to her babies). 

When I got home, I was really scared for Brooke. She seemed really weak- sneezing and still having gunk run down her eyes. I put some food in a bowl, which she wasn't interested in (she WAS feeding her kittens). I put it on a spoon and try to spoon-feed her (which has worked before). She kept turning her head the other way. Finally I put a little on my fingers. She ignored it. Then she sneezed again, and her mouth opened a little bit on the side. I took the opportunity to gently push some of the food inside her lips. I was so happy when she got a taste and started eating it! I proceeded to feed her an ENTIRE CAN by putting it on my fingers, a little bit at a time. What a good girl. Poor Brooke. :'( After she was done, I told her how proud I was and stroked her. Kittens were still nursing, but she loved being stroked. Her purring was so congested, you could hear the fluid in her lungs when she breathed or purred. 

The kittens are getting bigger, umbilical cords are falling off (all except the orange one, I think), and they're starting to crawl like fuzzy drunken rats around the box, mewing. They crawl up to Brooke's face and climb all over her head, but she just lays there and occasionally puts her paw on them or licks them.

I'm going to try to feed at least another half-can to her tonight using the finger method. I'll feed her as much as she will eat, the poor thing.


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## gunterkat (Aug 19, 2006)

Sending good thoughts and healing wishes for Brooke.

*_Also putting in a request for the kitty guardian angels to take care of Brooke and help her feel better._* :angel


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

gunterkat said:


> Sending good thoughts and healing wishes for Brooke.
> 
> *_Also putting in a request for the kitty guardian angels to take care of Brooke and help her feel better._* :angel



Thank you, gunterkat. I think I'm going to try and get more in her right now.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Poor Brooke is so congested-you can hear it any time she inhales, exhales, purrs...basically all the time.  And her eyes are still so watery that when she blinks, it looks like she's crying because "tears" are running down her cheeks. I know the antibiotic hasn't taken into effect yet, but I'm still worried.

The good news is, she got to eat some more. I tried putting a little in a dish for her, and she started eating it but soon lost interest after a few bits. I tried the bit-by-bit finger method, though, and fed her almost an entire 2nd can! I basically have to take a little bit and shove it under her nose until she starts eating it, and then once she gets going she gobbles it up and licks it off my fingers. The plat du jour this evening was Chicken and Liver pâté.  

She's still so good about letting me pet her and stroke, even when she's nursing. It seems to help relax her. Right now I'm running hot water in both of the sinks upstairs to hopefully get the room steamed up (the shelter vet rec'd this). When she heard the loud water, she ran under the toilet, though.

As the kittens were crawling around the box, I got to "check under their skirts", so to speak. There are 2 girls and 2 boys! The orange one and the tabby that's slightly darker and grayer are boys, and the smaller, browner tabbies are girls.


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## gunterkat (Aug 19, 2006)

It's good she's earing. The congestion in her nose might be why she doesn't want to start eating. She can't smell the food, so won't eat till she tastes it.

_*purrayers continue*_


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

Oh, poor Brooke! I hope the antibiotics kick in soon and help relieve her symptoms. atback 
To help steam the bathroom, close the drain to fill the basins with hot water. Drain and re-fill when the water cools to keep a steady supply of hot water steaming the air for whatever period of time manages to help her.


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

awww, mommy needs to get well - her babies need her! It must be a pain feeding by hand but, whatever works - i would do it if i had to!


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

awww, mommy needs to get well - her babies need her! It must be a pain feeding by hand but, whatever works - i would do it if i had to!


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

awww, mommy needs to get well - her babies need her! It must be a pain feeding by hand but, whatever works - i would do it if i had to!

ETA: Sorry, 2 of these can be deleted, stupid internet. lol.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Thanks, guys! I will try that tip about steaming the bathroom, Heidi.

This morning I was able to feed her another half of a can. I tried putting a little in her bowl, and after she greeted me with some meows and head-rubbing, she found her way to the food bowl and started to eat, so at least she seems to know where it is and know food is in it, despite her congestion. It was short-lived, though. She soon went into the nest to feed the kitties. So I fed her by hand again, and she seemed to really like it/gobble it down. 

I am still so worried about her. She sounds even worse today. Her breathing sounds like mine when I had pneumonia 2 years ago- lots of fluid in her chest when she purrs or meows, and lots of wheezing/fluid in her nose when she breathes in or out. She's having trouble breathing because of her runny nose. I tried wiping it, and she let me, but I'm not sure how much that helped. She is still so sweet to me and such a good mommy to the kittens (feeding them, cleaning them, stimulating them, letting them crawl all over her face) throughout all of this, even though I know she must be feeling terrible.

Speaking of which, the kitties are super active. When they're not feeding or sleeping, they explore the box by scooting around on their bellies. Their eyes/ears are still sealed, for Pete's sake! I have a feeling they're going to be pistols once they start walking/playing. 

Back to Brooke- should I be worried about brushing her/clipping her nails at this point? I don't want to freak her out/traumatize her any more than she already is. The vet is saying that it's obviously her first pregnancy, and she's still pretty young. She hasn't been interested in scratching or playing at all so far, but then again she's pretty busy and feeling pretty bad.


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## Leazie (Apr 14, 2007)

Perhaps you could call the vet and let him know how Brooke is doing and see if there is any symptom control that you could get for her? 

If brushing her would relax her I think it would be ok, but would stay away from her nails as she needs all of her energy to get well and take care of her babies. If she doesn't like the brushing I wouldn't do that either.

I bet it feels so good for you to hand fed her. It probably takes a lot of energy to stand up and eat, as well as goopies running down while she has her head in the bowl. You are really doing a wonderful job with her.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Thanks, Leazie. I didn't even think of goopies running down while she ate from the bowl! That sounds like a contributing factor.

Unfortunately, the Foster program requests that I get their approval before taking her in to one of the approved vets, because they have a budget. I talked to them yesterday about her condition, and they suggested ways to get her to eat and that I should email any updates since that's the best way to get ahold of them.

I emailed them basically the same things I've been posting here, 2x last night and once this morning. No response. I don't get very timely responses from them. I know they're really busy, but I really wish they'd let me know whether I should bring her to the shelter again today for some other treatment.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

Oh, poor Brooke. atback I sure hope she feels better soon. The kittens I just took in were sneeze-y, a few had goopy-eyes and one had goopy-nose but they are doing much better now. The eye-goop is gone, the nose-goop kitten is breathing easier and his goop has turned thin so it doesn't clog his breathing like the thick mucus did. ALL of them are racing around and playing. They really *need* to be in the bedroom to run and exercise but I can't let them in there until they are over their URI.

I remember when Shadow had her litter. She did not play at all, all she wanted to do was 'mother' her kittens. Like Brooke, she'd come to me for some pettings and lovings, but her attention soon returned to her babies and she'd go back to lay with them. She finally started showing interest in playing when the kittens were weaning age. I think she finally got to decrease milk production and keep her energy for herself. She bounced back fairly quickly, after the kittens were weaned. I'd expect the same out of Brooke, too.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Good news to report! The foster coordinator finally got back to me and OK'd a visit to the VCA tomorrow! I'm taking her in at 5:30.

Also, I've named the kitties, at least for now so that I can refer to them in conversation and writing. I can tell them apart now. I decided to name them after Harry Potter characters and pair them off name-wise so that they have a better chance of going home with a sibling, and so that they'll get good homes quickly. Plus, I love HP. 

So I can tell you that Hermione (the brownest tabby) and Ron (the orange one) have started to open their eyes! Especially Hermione! Ron still has his umbilical cord, though. How long should this stay on?

Lily (smallest, lightest tabby) and James (biggest tabby w/ the most black on him) still have their eyes closed.

Ron is still sneezing, and the shelter hasn't told me what to do about it.

Brooke is still eating well, as long as she's eating off of my fingers. 

I filled up a sink with hot water for Brooke's congestion, and then I did something dorky- I put catnip in the water to give it an herbal smell that she might like. Who knows if that did anything, but it made the room smell better.

My sister visited the kitties today, and Brooke was very nice to her, and even purred when Krissie petted her. I then picked up each kitty for Krissie to see and pet. Krissie held Lily and must have inadvertently rubbed her genital area, because Lily started to pee on her!  I made sure Brooke was comfortable with Krissie before I let her touch the kittens, and made sure that Krissie touched all of the kittens so that they would smell the same. I don't know if that's important, but I figured I'd better be safe than sorry. Krissie is doing student-teaching this fall and is living with my parents, but she may come live with me and my husband if our mom drives her crazy. Our mom is allergic to cats, but if Krissie moves in with us until she gets a place of her own, she wants to adopt one of the kittens! Maybe I can convince her to get two.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Pic of Hermione with her eyes slightly open!


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## gunterkat (Aug 19, 2006)

Awwww! ....



_*thud*_


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## Leazie (Apr 14, 2007)

_*waves*_ Hello Herimone!


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

*waves* Hello, sweet Hermione. :luv


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

such sweet babies :luv


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Not a great update.

As I said on the post on the bottom of page 6, the foster coordinator finally got back to me and gave the OK to bring Brooke and the kittens in to the vet. Brooke has been getting a little better since I've been hand-feeding her, but the orange kitty, Ron, has been sneezing.

I put them in two separate carriers and brought them to the vet. While the vet examined her she exclaimed at how young Brooke was to be a momma. I asked her how old (since the shelter told me about 2 years), and she said about a year at most, and she's too small (about 6.5 pounds). What's sad is that she looks much better today- a couple of days ago she was so emaciated.

The vet asked if I was up for bottle feeding, because if Brooke doesn't get better soon, she should be separated from her kittens so that she can recover. I told her that I'd be glad to, but no one's at home from 8-5 during the week. We're going to see if Brooke gets better and take it from there. 

Then the vet looked at the kittens. None have the URI yet other than Ron, and by the time he got to the vet, there was a bunch of crusty stuff around his nose. She was able to get it off, and told me I needed to wipe his nose 4x a day. I filled an empty 2-litre with very hot water, wrapped it in a towel, and put it on the nesting box to add heat. For a more permanent solution, my husband just picked up a heating pad and I'm going to stick it under one side of the nesting box. We also have to keep steaming up the room. 

They gave me antibiotics to give both Brooke and the kittens twice a day. Unfortunately, the vet said that little Ron does not have a good chance to make it, along with any of the others that might catch the URI. I'm going to hope for the best but prepare for the worst.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

paperbacknovel said:


> Unfortunately, the vet said that little Ron does not have a good chance to make it, along with any of the others that might catch the URI. I'm going to hope for the best but prepare for the worst.


OPh bopy, that isn't great news ... but where there is life, there is HOPE! If you can keep their breathing passages clear and keep them hydrated, they *can* survive this.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Thanks Heidi...we're trying. He's such a wonderful little boy. He used to be the fattest, though, and now he and Lily are the tiniest.


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## Night Owl (Jun 19, 2010)

Sounds like you're doing a great job at helping Brooke recover!

One thing I have used with success in the past with sick, congested kitties is to warm up saline solution (you can make your own or use some baby solution from the pharmacy) and flush the eyes with it using cotton balls. Most of the water will go on the face, but a good part of it will run inside the sinuses, helping to flush out the goo and clear the nose. Mama Cat probably won't be thrilled about it, but it should help her breathe better. I'm sure you could use it on baby Ron too, both to clean his eyes and clear his sinuses.

Also, to boost the immune system, you can add a pinch of vitamin C to her food - I prefer to use the Ester C form, because it is more easily absorbed and easier on their digestive system. Hope this helps, keep up the good work!


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## gunterkat (Aug 19, 2006)

Cats' body temp is 101.5 . Warm the saline to that temperature so it's more comfortable for them, checking with a fever thermometer.
The ester C is a great idea, and fish oil will help them, too. Make a pinhole in the end of the fishoil gelcap & squeeze it into their mouths.

Still praying for Brooke, and adding Ron.








May their guardian angels watch over them


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## Leazie (Apr 14, 2007)

Paws are crossed and many prayers coming that all turns out ok. 

Have you thought of supplementing bottle feeding while you are home so that Brooke has a rest during those times? That way she can take care of the kids while you are at work, but she will get a much needed break at other times.

The added benefit of bottle feeding is that you can be sure of how much each kitten is getting to make sure they don't lag behind.

You and your hubby are doing a great job.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

This morning:

Ron is still alive and kicking, but he has crusties around his mouth, eyes, and nose. I picked off the ones around his nose and wiped it, but I'm afraid to get the ones around his eyes and mouth because they've really crusted on there and I don't want to damage his little eyeballs. The bad thing is, when Brooke went in there to nurse, he didn't crawl over to her like his siblings did. I picked him up and put his mouth near a teat, but he still had trouble finding it and ended up not eating while his sibs fought for teats.

The vet doesn't open until 9, and I don't have KMR or a bottle. Researching what to do until then online.

ETa: Petsupplies plus and petsmart don't open for another hour, so I'm going to the humane society and seeing if they can get me bottle-feeding supplies. 

Hubby is going to pick up saline and vit c/fish oil.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Ok, the shelter gave me bottle and KMR. I just steamed up the shower in the master bathroom, brought Ron with me, wiped his face with cotton balls dipped in warm saline, and fed him (though not easily). I estimate that he only had about 1/4 tablespoon, if I take into account the formula that spilled. I also rubbed his genitals with a warm, wet cotton ball and got him to urinate. He dribbled some formula on himself, and I tried to clean that up (I even tried to lick him on his paws and under his chin like his mom would...didn't really clean anything up, just got my saliva on him...oh well). 

The good thing is, I got the crusties off of him, and he spent some time in a "sauna". How much should he be eating? Can they purr at this age, because I heard a little noise from him while he was feeding that sounded like a baby purr. 

He even slept for a few minutes on the towel I had him on while we were in the "sauna". When he woke up, he was crawling all over me with his little needle-claws. He definitely still has a lot of energy!

I think this is also a good sign- when I deposited him back into the nesting box (just the kitties were there, sleeping), he started mewling REally loud.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

Keep fighting, Ron! 
I think it is a good sign that he is still active and has lungs enough to loudly cry. I've always used a warm and wet/damp washcloth to clean kittens like their mamma would. The nubbies of a towel are more reminiscent of a cat's tongue than our own. Good job at getting him all cleaned up. As for the KMR, the first few feedings are messy and minimal until everyone (_person and the kittens_) gets the hang of it. It'll get better the more times you feed him.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

I read a website that suggested using a syringe to feed cats under 2 weeks old. I tried that and he seems to like it better. He's eating pretty well when I use a syringe, but not from his momma. Even when I push him right up to her nipple, he ignores it. 

The good news is that Brooke is so much better. She's not sneezing any more and doesn't sound congested. Her eyes are a little watery still, and she still will only eat canned food from my fingers (and dry food only overnight), but that's so much better from how she was a couple of days ago.

The bad news is that the smallest girl, Lily, has also started to get congested in her chest (as far as I can tell, from the sound of it). She still has no problem finding her mommy to eat from, though. When I picked her up to check her face for crustiness, she screamed MOST heartily! 

I'm feeding Ron every hour or so until he can feed from Brooke on his own. If this doesn't happen by Monday, I will try to take him to work with me. If they have some kind of regulation against that, though, I will have to bring him to the shelter so that someone will be able to feed him during the day. I really hope they let me take Ron to the office, though. I don't know how I would feel about someone else taking care of him!  Probably a little relieved because if someone with more experienced helps him, he probably has a better shot. At the same time, though, he seems to really like crawling around on me and cuddling with me, because he doesn't really snuggle with his siblings as much. He's usually on the heated side of the box by himself. And he doesn't scream as soon as I pick him up like Lily does, so maybe he's getting used to me taking care of him and likes me. That may just be wishful thinking.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

Oh, I'm not sure it's wishful thinking ... I think it *is* him socializing to you, though. You are familiar and a source of comfort for him and he is not alarmed when you handle him because he has learned that 'good things' come from you.
Best of luck to you and all the babies,
h


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Thanks!

I saw Lily with a big ol' goober hanging out of her little nose, so I tried giving her the sauna treatment. It was like taking a week-old human baby from its mother- full-body shaking, blood-curdling screams, limbs flailing, and silent screams. She seemed to relax at times in the master bath...it was sooo warm and steamy in there. I tried to feed her with both bottle and syringe- no dice. She does not take to it like Ron did.

She was still screaming at the top of her lungs while I wrapped her in a towel and took her back to Brooke. Brooke gave me this terrified look like "WHAT did you just DO to my BABY???" when we came back to Brooke's bathroom, and once I showed her Lily and tucked Lily near Brooke's chest, she gave me the most uncertain, anxious "Mrowwww?"

Poor Brooke. Poor Ron. Poor Lily.

Not looking forward to the next few nights until they get better. I just know that if I have to keep waking up every hour, I'm going to feel horrible tomorrow. 

Night everyone.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

I took Lily and Ron to a different vet today (one that was open). Lily sounds terrible and isn't eating at all. She wasn't breathing and her nose was full of mucus. I tried getting it out, but nothing was small enough to get in there, so...I spent a few minutes sucking it out with my mouth.  :? (I spit it out.) Kinda gross, but she was just laying there, barely moving, opening her mouth to breath in gasps that were also silent screams. 

Anyway, the vet has high hopes for Ron. Both of their lungs sounded terrible, but she thinks that the amoxicillin is working in him. He's feisty and very active.

Not so, unfortunately, with Lily. She just sits there, silent-screaming and gasping. Her lungs sound terrible, and she's too young to have any kind of treatment other than an oxygen tank, which would be $100/day (which neither I nor the shelter can afford to pay). 

The vet said that all we could do for her is what I've been doing. She said that Lily probably won't make it, unless a miracle happens.  The vet also says that she is already suffering; if she gets any worse, it was recommended that I have her euthanized to spare her more pain.

The humane society is trying to find another foster for Ron and Lily- one that will have someone at home 24/7 to take care of them. That means that even if she does die or gets euthanized, I won't be able to be there in her last moments.

I prepared myself emotionally for this possible eventuality, but I'm still so upset right now. Her eyes opened last night, so I keep seeing her little eyes and her little face and her little runny nose...she gnaws on my fingers with her little toothy gums and screams and wriggles in my grasp when she's not gasping for air. Poor sweetheart.


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## gunterkat (Aug 19, 2006)

Poor, Poor little Lilly!!    
Arianwen sees my tears and she's licking and licking my hand. :heart

Prayers for Lilly. May the kitten guardian angels help her get better.
I remember, about 35 yrs ago, (has it been _that_ long? ) a sick kitten who had stopped breathing. I gently used a syringe to suck the goopies out of his nose, and _very_ carefully gave him mouth to mouth. Basically, I put the front of his head in my mouth and felt for his chest imflating, being aware that too much pressure could burst his tiny lungs. After a few minutes he started breathing on his own again, and slept half the day. I was worried about brain damage, but mama Ugly kept him close, licking him, and he nursed like he was starving when he woke up.  
Rusty grew up to be a huge ginger/white longhaired kitteh, an insepperable friend. :luv 


Your pawprints are on my heart, too, Rusty :angel


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Thank you so much, John. 

The foster coordinator just called me and said BRING THE KITTENS RIGHT NOW! A vet tech from a city about 15 miles north of here has agreed to take them, but she's leaving soon to go home, so the kitties need to come to the humane society right now. The thing is, Jake and I are at my parents' house for a father's day cookout. Jake left to go back to our house, get the kitties, and bring them to the humane society. This means I won't even get to say goodbye.    

At least a vet tech will take care of them...they will get the best possible chance. Their pawprints will always be on my heart. I hope I will see them again to give them another kiss, in this life or the next. 

I still have Brooke, James, and Hermione. I will still do my best for them. Poor Brooke. She won't understand why two of her babies are gone and won't come back...

_Edited for spelling._


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## gunterkat (Aug 19, 2006)

atback atback atback


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

Oh! (((hugs))) for you! atback 
When you get home, *tell* Brooke what happened to her babies. Tell her you had to send them to someone who could nurse them 24/7. Even if she doesn't understand your words, I truly feel they understand our intent. I am certain she will understand, and she will also understand that you are sad they are gone, too. atback


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## Mrs. PBJ (Dec 29, 2009)

I am so sorry you are having to go through this. I just had this with my last foster. I know its hard. 

But you knew what you had to do. 

You did everything you can and they knew love one thing most fosters cat would never know if it was not for people like you who foster.


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## Leazie (Apr 14, 2007)

I am so, so sorry about all of this. Please put a little kiss on Brooke's forehead for me.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Thank you, guys. It really helps to have people to share my feelings with. 

I just explained things to Brooke...still giving her and James and Hermione medicine just in case.

James's eyes have started to open! Hermione's eyes are completely open....she's SO gorgeous. I'll have to get a pic.


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## Feisty Kitten (Jun 18, 2010)

Will you find out how they are getting on?


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

I've asked the foster coordinator to provide me with any updates on Ron's and Lily's status. I know they're busy, but I really hope they have time to update. me.


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## OctoberinMaine (Sep 12, 2006)

It's unbelievable how much you're doing, and doing _right_, for these kitties. I'm in awe.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

October said:


> It's unbelievable how much you're doing, and doing _right_, for these kitties. I'm in awe.


Thanks, but I had so much help...from my husband, several vets, the shelter, reading articles online, catforum.com threads and replies to this thread...so much good information out there. Plus, as my husband says, I'm a "bleeding heart"...especially about animals. I have no kids of my own yet, so right now my mothering instincts are kicking in for these cats.


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## Leazie (Apr 14, 2007)

Are you sure you weren't a crazy cat lady in a former life :lol: ?


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Leazie said:


> Are you sure you weren't a crazy cat lady in a former life :lol: ?


I probably was. We're talking about adopting a 3rd cat...a male. Jake wants to call him Forte. 

Unfortunately, we're not going to be able to do it until Brooke and the kitties leave. Jake thinks we're overwhelmed enough as it is, and he's right. It's draining, emotionally and physically. Sad, because I have my eye on 2 different little guys at the humane society:
http://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/16440100
http://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/16598497

They are both so sweet. When I walk into the cattery, Keno keeps looking at me, cocking his head like a dog, and sticking his paws through the cage at me. I hope they're still there at the end of July, but at the same time, I really hope they're NOT still there, because that means they'll have been adopted sooner. :? There will always be wonderful cats to adopt, though...

The only thing that's bumming me out now is that we're cancelling our vacation with my family (they're going to Universal to go to the Harry Potter park!) because of fostering Brooke and her kitties. It's a decision we made when we agreed to foster Brooke, and I'm glad we did it, but I really wanna go to that Harry Potter park! :wink


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

I'm so depressed. James has started to sneeze, and when I visited them after work, he wasn't eating from Brooke, while Hermione was. 

I don't understand. What am I doing wrong??? I feel like I shouldn't be allowed to foster again. What are the odds that 3 previously healthy kittens get sick under my care???

Foster coordinator said that Ron and Lily are okay so far, which is the only good news I've heard all day.  



My husband took this picture of Allegro and Coda this morning- check out my precious babies!


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## Night Owl (Jun 19, 2010)

I know it's tough... but you are not at fault in this. Kittens are very fragile, and URI are very contagious. They are bound to all go through it, probably. The strongest will make it, and sadly sometimes the weak ones don't make it.

You've being going above and beyond for this family, and if it wasn't for you the babies would probably all be dead by now.
Try to think of all the love and care you are giving them when it gets discouraging... You are doing one **** of a great job.


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## Night Owl (Jun 19, 2010)

PS: Your two orange boys are GORGEOUS!


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

I agree, it isn't you, it is the nature of the URI and the fact that the litters of kittens share teats when nursing. atback


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## Leazie (Apr 14, 2007)

They were all bound to get it since they would be sneezing on each other, sharing the same air space, etc. At their age they have no immunity against something like this. And, also remember that with Brooke being so young and in such poor shape they are at an even greater disadvantage.

Each day that they keep fighting is a victory. You are doing the best that you can for them. If Brooke had delivered outside I suspect that they all would be gone by now, including her.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Thank you guys.  I still feel bad for them. Night Owl- the one on the right is actually a girl!  I've recently heard that girl orange tabbies are rare, even if they're dilute- is that true? I'm in love with my cats- they are so loving and cuddly, and they do the craziest things.

Brooke is getting more affectionate and playful, and is finally eating on her own.  I'm so proud of her. She always wants to be petted and stroked and have her belly and chin rubbed. She loves rolling on her back and kneading her front paws on the back of my hand, licking my fingers occasionally. She gets really excited when I come in the room instead of fearful, and makes happy little trilling noises, tail sticking up and vibrating, and coming out for head rubs and chin scratching. She doesn't like her medicine but never attacks me when I have to physically open up her clenched jaw to get it in her mouth. She immediately wants more petting afterwards. She is going to make some family/person very happy when she gets adopted. I'm going to give her a glowing write-up to get her adopted soon, and every bit will be truth!

She's also filled out, so that now she looks like a healthy cat instead of a Holocaust victim with a pregnancy belly! :yikes (hope that didn't offend anyone...it's true, it's how she looked when she first came to me...ribs sticking out and shoulder and hip bones protruding sharply).

When should I start brushing her and clipping her nails? I've tried to be careful and not bother her, but I'd like to spiff her up some if it'll make her feel better.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

paperbacknovel said:


> When should I start brushing her and clipping her nails? I've tried to be careful and not bother her, but I'd like to spiff her up some if it'll make her feel better.


Why not start now? You don't have to do a LOT, just begin to get her used to being handled and groomed. If she loves it, great! If she isn't sure, just go slow and gradually increase how much you do each time. Don't try to brush her all over or do all claws at one sitting, break it up into little bits, here-and-there, until she gets used to it and you can do more as she grows comfortable.


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## Night Owl (Jun 19, 2010)

I agree with Heidi, grooming her a little bit at a time, like it's a treat and not a chore, might improve your chances of making her love it! (we all know cats are not contrary at all, right)
When I switched from my regular brush to a Zoom Groom, my cats decided they LOVED being brushed. It's a rubber brush that gives them more of a massage, and gets TONS of fur off of them (and stuck on you!). Really cheap, just a few bucks at the pet store - might be worth a try if she doesn't seem thrilled by the regular brush/comb.

And yes I'm so used to orange kitties being boys that I'm always surprised when they turn out being girls :lol: 
They are gorgeous anyway!! (I'm glad I didn't say handsome the first time)


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Update:

I asked the foster coordinator a couple days ago for another update on Ron and Lily, but haven't heard anything back.  Should I take this as a bad sign?

Hermione has finally succumbed to the URI. She now has the sniffles. I'm still giving them all medicine, and at least Brooke remains 100% healthy and is eating on her own. Both Hermione and James are still suckling from their mom, possibly because they can see better at this age and don't have to rely on their sense of smell as much. 

They are pretty good about me picking them up and holding them; they like to crawl around on my shirt. However, they both SCREAM BLOODY MURDER when I give them their medicine and wipe the crusties off of their eyes or suction the snot out of their noses with the little baby turkey baster type thing. I feel TERRIBLE when I do this, because they're squirming around so much, I have to really be more forceful than I'd like to be just to hold their heads still to get the syringe in their mouths. They just start SCREAMING, and I feel like I'm strangling a kitten.  I almost started crying this morning, but I knew they had to have their medicine. Of course, their screams make Brooke nervous and she paces and makes anxious noises. I'm afraid that this will hurt the kittens' socialization, because right now they're associating me with discomfort and maybe pain. :'( What do I do?

Hermione is BEAUTIFUL, by the way. Probably the most stunningly beautiful kitten I have ever seen, even in pictures. She's beyond just *cute*...she's just absolutely gorgeous. I PROMISE I will upload a good-quality picture tonight to show you.

I tried brushing Brooke last night...it was okay, I guess. She didn't *freak out*, but she shied away from the brush. I left it at a few strokes to start slow, and made sure to pet her a lot afterwards. 

It seems like Brooke is doing a lot better just taking care of and feeding TWO kittens, versus four. Is that maybe why younger cats often have smaller litters, do you think? To get them the experience of being a mom by having them handle a smaller amount of kittens first? New moms with large litters probably get sickly since they are having a hard time getting the nutrients they need, and they may die or not be able to produce enough milk, which makes the kittens die. So maybe evolution has caused younger cats to have small litters for that reason. Does that make sense, or does it sound like junk science?

Coda and Allegro are wonderful and they're doing so well. Well, all except for last night- Coda crawled into my lap and went to sleep, but I had to get up and give the Brooke and her kittens their medicine. So Jake picked Coda up off of my lap so that he could bring her over to lay on HIS lap. However, Coda went all stiff-legged (which she doesn't do for me anymore- she seems to like it when I pick her up and hold her), and when Jake sat down, she had diarrhea on him!!!! :yikes: Just a little bit, but it went on his hands, shorts, and shirt. It also got on the chair, but fortunately the chair is faux leather and easy to wipe off. 

Jake freaked out, of course. :roll: I told him to chill out; it's just poop. I told him that when we have kids, I promise that he will get pooped on more than once. I carried Coda to the litterbox and she used it while Jake cleaned himself and the chair up. It's been several weeks since Coda has had diarrhea trouble, so I will call the vet today. No changes in food or anything else lately, so maybe it's a virus?


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## Mrs. PBJ (Dec 29, 2009)

I had to give my last foster meds and her kitten they turned out to be the most loving kitten they will not remember. 

She was thankful for the attention.


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## kreimhilde (Jun 24, 2010)

Your kitties look like mine! See for yourself:

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

That's good to know, Mrs. PBJ- thanks!

Kreimhilde- they DO look like my babies! How cute! :luv


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

As promised, more pics!

Here's Hermione!

















With Brooke:









James proved very difficult to photograph. Poor babies, they're both having a really hard time breathing through their noses. 


Look, Coda and Allegro love snuggling on my lap! ->









Coda sleeping on my legs! Sweetheart.


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## Leazie (Apr 14, 2007)

Herimone is beautiful! Coda and Allegro luv their Momma, don't they?


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Leazie said:


> Herimone is beautiful! Coda and Allegro luv their Momma, don't they?


And I didn't even get a picture that does her justice! I was trying to gently hold her and take pics with the iPhone at the same time... what a heartbreaker, though. She'll go fast!

:luv And yes, I do think C+A love me. I sure do love them. They are so cuddly and loving- almost every time I sit down one or both wants to be on my lap. We're so lucky they chose us!


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## gunterkat (Aug 19, 2006)

Such gorgeous kittehs, every one :luv


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

im jealous - of many things. you have such beautiful kittens to visit, your own cats snuggle you, and your own cats snuggle each other!! If my cats were snuggling id have someone slap me because id be sure im dreaming! lol.


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## nmulder33 (Jun 27, 2010)

Awww, they are so precious!! You guys did an awesome job!


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Sorry I haven't updated in a while- been pretty busy. 

Let me try to remember everything important.

First, Ron and Lily are both ALIVE. The vet tech said they are doing great, and they're coming back to the HS on Tues. nite. They'll look them over, and if they give them the OK, they'll come back with us for the remainder of their stay! DH misses them. 

Both James and Hermione got the URI. They were still eating though, so I kept them with us. Even though they've been on an antibiotic since Ron got sick, they weren't getting better. James's eye got infected pretty bad. So the vet prescribed new medicine and some eye drops for both of them. They are SO much better now. 

They were 3 weeks old on Friday.  So cute! Their claws have started to retract, and they're starting to walk instead of crawl-their legs can now support their body. *When can I start clipping the kittens' nails?* Right now they have little daggers that they love to sink into me when I have to give them their meds. :yikes Hermione also likes to poop on me whenever I hold her. LOL.

I think I've taken a step backward with Brooke.  I wanted to clip her nails because they were getting pretty bad, and she seemed to be doing a lot better with me. She didn't try to bite or scratch me, but she didn't like it very much and got really scared. I let her chill off, and a few days later I decided I would try to hold her in my lap. I really want to socialize her, because the shelter said that she acts like she is semi-feral (they think she was an outdoor cat and her owner let her run willy-nilly...but she's also super frightened of humans, so maybe she was abused? :x ). I want her to be ADOPTED. 

So I got some yummy food (it was given to me by the vet back when she didn't eat...it's that science diet--yuk--stuff for anorexic cats), and I sat on the floor and lured her over to me, having her eat off my fingers. She loved it. She got close but wouldn't go in my lap. I spread some on the lid and put it on my knee. Again, she seemed fine, but still didn't go to my lap. I slightly lifted her up to put her in my lap (like less than 6 inches off the ground), and as soon as she got in my lap, she FREAKED and ran behind the toilet. Again, never trying to bite or scratch, just SCARED. 

Well, I've heard the importance of ending a session positively-and making sure that each new step is a positive experience. So I put her in my lap again, holding her there until she ate a little more food off of my finger before wriggling loose. She then escaped to the tub and huddled in a corner with her tail between her legs. 

She Seems to be fine, days later, but I don't know how to keep doing this. I've read stuff about socializing ferals, but it's tough because she's already over a year old and she obviously had some bad experiences in the past. Again, not at all aggressive, but she epitomizes the "'fraidy-cat" cliché.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

First: YAY for Ron and Lily!!!!! *_does a happy-dance_*



paperbacknovel said:


> I want [Brooke] to be ADOPTED.
> [...luring to feed in lap...] I slightly lifted her up to put her in my lap (like less than 6 inches off the ground), and as soon as she got in my lap, she FREAKED and ran behind the toilet. Again, never trying to bite or scratch, just SCARED.
> I've heard the importance of ending a session positively-and making sure that each new step is a positive experience. So I put her in my lap again, holding her there until she ate a little more food off of my finger before wriggling loose. She then escaped to the tub and huddled in a corner with her tail between her legs.
> She Seems to be fine, days later, but I don't know how to keep doing this. I've read stuff about socializing ferals, but it's tough because she's already over a year old and she obviously had some bad experiences in the past. Again, not at all aggressive, but she epitomizes the "'fraidy-cat" cliché.


I think you are doing great with Brooke! I think it was a positive experience that you placed her in your lap again and was able to coax her into eating off your finger. In order for her to be adoptable, she *needs* to get accustomed to being handled. I socialized Pretty to handling after she was about 2yrs old. She was completely feral and it took me years because she was outdoors and completely unconfined, but we did it.

Be patient and persistent. Place Brooke in your lap, feed her, pet her and then when you are done or you feel her starting to wiggle, either set her away from you if you can feel she hasn't relaxed, but if you feel she *has* relaxed and doesn't need to be gently restrained to stay on your lap, you can just slowly ease your restraint until you are no longer restraining her and allow her to step off of her own accord. 

With Pretty, I fed canned food and got her used to being petted. When we progressed to her 'parading' (_turning circles with tail raised so I could pet her all over_) near me to pet her, I would gently grasp her and place her in my lap. She would immediately get nervous, stop purring, huddle/crouch and wrap her tail around her back legs ... _she didn't know what was going to happen or whether it would be a good or a bad thing_ ... and I'd just hold her in my lap while talking soothingly to her and gently massaging her with my free hand. We progressed from a scruff hold to a hand on her chest and finally to no restraint. In the beginning, you don't want them to run from you ... but when they are unsure and don't understand ... they *will* move to get away and put some distance between you. I always tried to set them off of my lap so it seemed to be more of an "I let you go" instead of a "cat thinks they escaped" situation. 

Keep handling her. Do it every day. Heck, try to do it every time you go in to see her. Cats don't learn when they are frightened, but you *have* to keep handling them to help them get past their fear so they *can* learn. After patient and persistent gentle handling happens enough times and nothing bad happened, they stop 'freezing' and thinking about what *might* happen and they start thinking about what *did* happen ... which was: Nothing Bad. THAT is when they start to learn and understand that handling can be good. 

If you make a mistake, apologize. I *know* how hoke-y that sounds, but we can accidentally step on or kick our cats and if we immediately go: "Oooh, kitty-baby! I'm so sorry, I didn't know you were there! I didn't mean to do that to you." ... our cats, after being accidentally hurt by us, will _STOP_ moving to get out of our way and allow us to approach, usually looming over them, and pet and scrubble them or pick them up for an apology hug. They hear it in our voices and see it in our body language. 
Do you think Brooke would let you approach her to pet her head or scrubble-massage her shoulders after she's run to behind the toilet or into the tub? That may be enough of a 'end-on-a-good-note' for the first stage of socializing her to handling. _"Yes, I made you a little nervous but I know you like it when I pet you, right?"_ It acknowledges that you made her feel uncomfortable but you are reaffirming that you only want to do 'good things' to her.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Thanks so much for your response, Heidi.

I did make sure that I still gave her a little of the food off my fingers, even after she ran and hid. She did not allow herself to be coaxed towards me, though.  She was even reluctant to eat the food after she escaped.

She loves being petted and having her belly rubbed. She will approach me and rub her head against my hands for petting. So she likes that. She knows that when I come visit her, she gets canned food and petting/rubbing. She just freaks out in my lap.  I don't think she's ever been in anyone's lap before...

I will keep trying, because the way she is now, I don't think she will ever be adopted.  It's a no-kill shelter, but it means she will be there for a long time with little human interaction until someone who doesn't care about her fright will adopt her. :'(


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

Oh boy. I think nervous kitties feel this way when first introduced to lap-sitting because it is different, close to something larger than they are and they feel vulnerable and being 'restrained' wakes up their instinctive fight/flight response ... although those reactions reduce as they learn to trust and relax. She just needs to learn that nothing bad will happen when she is close to a person.

How are you doing the lap-stuff? With Pretty, I started out sitting flat on my bottom with my legs straight out on the patio. I think it helped *her* that it was winter and my lap was warmer than the freezing-cold concrete. _I know my butt would have preferred to be in my lap, too!_ :lol: As she became more relaxed about being in my flat-lap, I started lifting her from the concrete to the top of the outdoor shelter. It was a lift of just under 24" and I'd immediately start petting her and she'd relax. When that went well, along with my sitting on the concrete and lap-petting, I transitioned to sitting on the shelter and lifting her to my lap. You could do the same thing with the toilet seat or tub edge after she relaxes with you placing her in your lap when sitting on the floor.

Baby steps. Lots and lots of repetetive baby steps to 'set' the response you want before moving on to 'new' things with more baby steps, beginning with the first baby steps and slowly transitioning and introducing new baby steps. Before you know it, you'll look back and see how far you've come with all of those baby steps.
Good luck!


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

I decided to treat Brooke like she was feral. I've waited to do this sort of thing because she was so sick and having such trouble eating. Now that she and the babies are better, though, I won't feel as bad about holding off on the canned food until it's time to socialize. She'll still have the dry food, she just doesn't like it as MUCH. 

I picked up that Gerber chicken step 2 baby food that the guy in the feral cat socialization video was talking about...he said it was like "cat crack". 

I let her have a taste of the baby food, and she did indeed like it!  I sat down on the floor and stuck my legs straight out, right in front of the nesting box. I lured her out of the box bit by bit with the food on my fingers, but that took forever. She kept reaching her head out without stepping out of the box, and when I inched the food away from her so that she'd have to, she'd duck back in and I'd have to start over from the beginning. The best she did was putting 3 paws on my leg and eating out of the jar before she got scared again and ran back in the box. I didn't even pet her during this, or move at all. I'm worried that she's so "far behind", that this food that she really likes isn't even incentive enough to climb in my lap. I only have her until the end of July- how can I socialize her enough in only a month?

I gave her a rest and then tried again, but then DH walked right outside the door to Brooke's bathroom and started talking in a silly voice to Allegro, and she freaked out at hearing the voice. Usually our house is VERY quiet, but I do always talk to her almost non-stop when I'm in there, so I'm sad that my DH scared her.

I have no idea what happened to her that she is like this. What the HS said about her owner leaving her outside is only their guess...the owner surrendered her a couple days before I picked her up, so they didn't get to spend a lot of time with her before I got her. What do you guys think was her background, based on what you've read in this thread? She definitely does not seem like she was a loved house-pet. The only indication that she's even had SOME contact with humans is the fact that she likes having her head rubbed....but then again, it took her so long to feel comfortable with that, maybe she didn't have it done to her before either. She is definitely a good cat- she has never tried to scratch or bite me, even though it looks like she wants to sometimes (when I'm clipping nails or brushing fur). She has no litter box problems (well, except for when she got here and she didn't know which box was the litter box!). She's a beautiful girl, with large expressive eyes and soft fur. She's a good mommy to her kittens. She's just so scared of being held and picked up, and scared of humans in general.

It's tough for us because Coda and Allegro, our first and only experience with cats before this, are SO loving. The day we took them home, they were already jumping on our laps and giving us head-butts and snuggles whenever we went into the safe room to see them. I always greet them with a nose nuzzle and a few kisses on their heads and noses, and they just purr. They have no issues with being touched or picked up, and it seems like they do not scratch or bite us out of LOVE and being socialized to humans, instead of because they are afraid of retaliation, like Brooke seems to be. 

It just makes me feel so bad for Brooke, because it's obvious that Coda and Allegro's foster life was SO much better than Brooke's life with her owner.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

Well, she sounds like she was _someone's_ cat though I can't say she was a "pet" because she just doesn't behave that way. She sounds like she is a domesticated cat who was allowed to just run loose and did not become well-socialized, or had been reverting due to limited contact and no real connection with people. I have to *believe* that every animal can be socialized. It is what keeps me going in the face of stubborn fosters and ferals. Patient persistence WORKS. 

The thing is ... it takes as long as it takes for the cat to decide to accept socialization. 

We really cannot make these animals conform to our deadlines, they need as much time as they *need* to learn, accept and live with what we teach them. I do think we can achieve results faster with 'flooding' and then setting those behavior reactions with frequent repetition. I always begin at the beginning, every session. As the cat grows accustomed to socialization and handling, we are able to move through those first steps quicker and reach the newer ones we need to practice ... but by re-doing those early steps, it is helping to set that behavioral response, it is practice and it sets the cat up for success by easily completing earlier exercises before moving on to new ones. When the cat gets nervous, simply back up to a step where the cat is comfortable and when you next move forward, just slow-it-down at that point to help the cat learn and accept. 

Patient, persistent, practice.

_Flooding is frequent and intense socialization sessions that break down the cat's resistance to change. It is similar to the new-to-the-household kitten who harasses the older and settled cat, wanting to play and the cat keeps hissing and saying; "No, leave me alone." and the kitten isn't deterred, it keeps pestering and pestering; "How about now? Can we play now? Is now good for you? It's good for me, lets play now!" and the cat keeps saying "No." and the kitten keeps asking and asking until the cat finally just gives up, figuring it takes too much energy to keep saying 'no' ... and finally ... they say YES and accept the kitten's attentions._

You need to be that kitten. You need to keep asking: 'Are we there yet?' You need to _keep asking_ so when the cat finally says 'yes' ... you recognize that progress and can capitalize on the cat's accpetance of being handled.

Do the best you can, it is all you can do. Anything you are able to help Brooke accept, is a Good Thing.
h =^..^=


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## Breezy-Supersonic (Jul 5, 2010)

Are you going to adopt ny of them? Brooke sounds like a caring mother.

ALso, what is URI?


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## Mikayla (Aug 14, 2009)

So glad that Ron and Lily are okay and hopefully coming back to you, and that James and Hermione are on the mend. It sounds like you're doing great with Brooke. Thank you so much for your patience, love and perseverance in her socialization. :luv I've been keeping a close eye on this thread as I took in a stray with a URI who had kittens 2 1/2 weeks ago who has a lot of the same problems as Brooke. It's different as I'm not on a time limit but am keeping my fingers crossed for both of us!!


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

Breezy-Supersonic said:


> ALso, what is URI?


URI = Upper Respiratory Infection. If you come across UTI, that is Urinary Tract Inflamation/Infection.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Breezy-Supersonic: Probably not.  Right now it would be best for our current cats and for ourselves if we don't adopt another cat for a little while. We are definitely planning on adopting another cat or two in the future, though.  Probably a cat that's a little older...one that is having trouble getting adopted because of age or appearance. 

We MIGHT adopt Brooke if she's having a really hard time in the shelter and no one is adopting her. I want to be careful, though, because we'll probably be fostering more in the future, and we can't adopt every cat we foster! 

Mikayla: Thank YOU so much for reading+commenting. Good luck with your stray! Do you have a thread where you talk about your experience? I'd love to see more details/pics!

Heidi: Your KCBC was such a helpful read, and I'm so glad to read of your experiences while I do this! It is so helpful and reassuring to have help and advice from the experts! 

Here's today's progress so far: When I came in this morning to give the kittens their meds, Brooke was excited to see me, tail straight up and vibrating. She wove around my legs slowly while I pet her. At one point she even stood up on her hind legs and put her front paws on my knee! (I was sitting on the toilet.) I was so excited, but she jumped back down. After tending to the kittens, I sat on the floor, legs straight in front of me. I put the baby food on my fingers, and pretty soon Brooke stuck her head out of the box and inched towards my fingers. I'll skip every detail of luring her closer, but eventually she had all four feet on my leg, head was right by my stomach, and eventually she even sat down on my legs (didn't lie down, though). I also pet her lightly on the top of her head, but when I moved my hand anywhere else, she backed off. 

It was kind of sad...she'd get comfortable eating and being close to me, and then suddenly she'd realize where she was, and then she'd go hide behind the toilet or in her nesting box.  But we definitely have a little progress, so that's good.

Hermione and James are starting to play and wrestle. It's adorable!


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## nmulder33 (Jun 27, 2010)

Wow, usually I skim over threads if they are long, but I read every update from Brooke and the kittens. Sometimes we have to go through a test, just to see if we can handle it. As the saying goes, " God doesn't give you more then you can handle! And you handled it well! You have proven that you are a real cat lover. Hats off to the things you have done for Brooke!

My daughter found Chowder and he was very sick too! I kept faith and he is one big boy now!!
Edgar got sick too, I kept faith and he is my little fat boy now... :lol: He constantly eats... :lol: 

I was going to foster Edgar, but I couldn't stand to give him up so I kept him!


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

paperbacknovel said:


> Heidi: Your KCBC was such a helpful read, and I'm so glad to read of your experiences while I do this! It is so helpful and reassuring to have help and advice from the experts!


  Aww, shucks! _I'm not an expert._  I haven't been formally *trained* though I was instructed in how to foster and socialize difficult feral kittens for public adoption by my Adoption/Rescue Coordinator. I only share my various personal experiences that have worked for me with many cats. 
*Everything I've learned ... a cat taught me.*




paperbacknovel said:


> It was kind of sad...she'd get comfortable eating and being close to me, and then suddenly she'd realize where she was, and then she'd go hide behind the toilet or in her nesting box.  But we definitely have a little progress, so that's good.


I think that is FABULOUS progress! 
You got her on your lap, enjoying herself with petting and good foods. When she realized where she was, she may have left and hid ... but I am certain she is *thinking about it* and this thought process is critical for her to accept being handled. Nothing bad is happening, only good things ... and as she realizes this, she'll spend more and more time with you, on your lap, getting pets and food than she spends hiding behind the toilet. You're making great progress ... she's THINKING about the process and that is GREAT!


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Thank you so much, nmulder33. I'm so glad people enjoy reading the updates. I'm partially posting them for my own sanity, LOL! I'm so glad that Chandler and Edgar recovered and are doing so great.

Heidi, being an expert is partially about the amount of experience and success stories...and even though you don't have some sort of "degree" in cat socialization, I think the sheer amount of experience and success stories speak for themselves!


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

Gads, I'm almost boo-hoo-ing over here!  You have no idea how good it feels to be appreciated and to have my success recognized.  Thank you.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Heidi: atback 

Okay, PICTURES.

These two are from a week ago, when I brought James and Hermione to the vet. James is the darker one who isn't showing his face- that little guy is camera-shy!

I love the one where Hermione is hugging him! Dying of cute!

















This one is from today. Hermione in mid-mew!









This one is Allegro...he decided to sprawl across my laptop keyboard. He's my little pistol.









And this is our little princess, Coda, asleep at my husband's feet on the couch:


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

Awwwwww! Such sweet babies. :luv 

....how can everyone's kitties be on the keyboard and not make the laptop do wiggy-things?


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## Breezy-Supersonic (Jul 5, 2010)

James is my faveorite. And yeah, the hugging picture is CUTE!!!

:luv


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## OctoberinMaine (Sep 12, 2006)

This is the best picture I've seen in a long time! What cute kitties in a classic pose. :luv 



paperbacknovel said:


>


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Thank you guys! :luv 

Heidi, if that picture had a soundtrack, it would be of my computer going BEEP BEEP BEEP WTF WHYAREYOUPRESSINGALLOFMYKEYSATONCEOMGOMGOMG BEEP BEEP

Breezy-Supersonic- I'm glad that James is your fave when you haven't even seen his face! Maybe I'll convince him to do a few head shots to show off his extreme cuteness. Right now he'll make a cute face and look at me, and then when I point the camera at him he ducks and turns his face away. Playing hard-to-get!

October- yay! I'll tell my DH that! He loves snapping pics with his iphone of his precious furbabies. He was very proud of getting that picture. C+A often make very noble, regal poses! And then they go back to wrestling or licking their own butts.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Cuteness update!

My sister (22) and brother (19) visited yesterday and held the kittens. I wanted them to get used to different people holding them and noise. They did very well! They crawled all over my siblings and mewed a little, but no screaming or panicking. I'm trying to hold them a LOT, walk around while holding them, touching them all over. They've both tried to gnaw on me a couple of times and I gently bop them on the nose with my fingertip and make a short noise. Am I supposed to do something different there? I was trying to replicate what they do to each other to tell them that biting fingers is not okay. So far it's seemed to work, since they're really not trying it anymore. 

They're not purring in my arms yet, but they do crawl up and put their head under my chin and sniff/headbutt my chin and lips. 

They're both walking (albeit a little unsteadily) around the nesting box and scratching at the walls, trying to get out, but last night James was crying and trying to get out. He managed to find the hole and put his little paws on the edge and stuck his nose and eyes over the top, but was not able to crawl out (it's kind of high up). Should I cut the hole a little lower, or put something underneath the hole inside the box to use as a little stepping stool? Are they ready to leave the box yet on their own?

Anyway, I was curious to see what he'd do outside the box, so I lifted him out and put him on the floor. Immediately he started toddling around, only stumbling a couple of times. Brooke made the most adorable worried little trill! She started following him around the bathroom and licking him when she got near him. Eventually he made it to the bathroom door (that leads out into the upstairs hallway) and started pawing at the door and mewing, like he wanted to go out and explore! Brooke made a REALLY worried noise then, and planted herself between James and the door, watching him intently and licking him whenever he approached. So he just toddled around, sniffing at toys and at Brooke's food bowl. I was surprised at how well he was walking! Hermione was just chilling in the nesting box and didn't seem like she was too interested in leaving, so I just left her in the box. I was on the other end of the bathroom, sitting on the toilet lid and making sure James didn't crawl behind the toilet. Eventually, Brooke went back into the box, but not before giving me a Look. The Look quite obviously said, "Okay, I know you're there and are keeping an eye on him--but DON'T let him get into trouble or let anything happen to him!" Eventually I picked him up and put him back in the box.

They had started interacting with each other a week ago, but this morning I was, for the first time, observing them wrestling! Just like Coda and Allegro do! Teeth, claws, paws, rolling over on top of each other, jumping on each other. When they do that to Brooke, she just ignores them or licks them, so I think they were excited to roughhouse with each other for a change. It was pretty much the cutest thing ever. :luv

Brooke definitely looks forward to my touch and chin scratches and belly rubs...she can't get enough when I'm in there and sitting on the toilet lid. When I get down on the floor, though, to practice socialization...she doesn't approach me like she does when I'm sitting on the toilet. I'm able to get her to climb on me to eat the food for a few minutes at the time, but she is VERY scared and wary of being on my body or having me touch her underbelly while she's standing up. How weird is that--she loves me touching her belly when she's on her back, but not when she's standing up?? Is it because she's in a better defensive position when she's on her back, with potential use of her claws?

Anyway, that was your daily cuteness update.  I haven't heard from the foster coordinator yet, but I may be getting Ron and Lily back today!!!


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## Leazie (Apr 14, 2007)

How have I missed the pictures and the updates? The kids are so darned CUTE!!! James out and about sounds so adventerous. When our siblings were little Simba was always the one to try things first. There always has to be one in the bunch :lol: 

I can't believe how wonderful Brooke is as a Momma- sitting in between the door and James to keep him safe :luv . I wonder how she will react if Ron and Lily come back to her.

You are doing a fabulous job with all of them.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Leazie said:


> How have I missed the pictures and the updates? The kids are so darned CUTE!!! James out and about sounds so adventerous. When our siblings were little Simba was always the one to try things first. There always has to be one in the bunch :lol:
> 
> I can't believe how wonderful Brooke is as a Momma- sitting in between the door and James to keep him safe :luv . I wonder how she will react if Ron and Lily come back to her.
> 
> You are doing a fabulous job with all of them.


I miss Ron and Lily so much! I will do the "old vanilla trick" if Ron + Lily return, and I don't anticipate a big problem, but I'm crossing my fingers. Brooke has never reacted strangely when I bring the kitties home from the vet or when the kitties have been held by someone else and therefore smell different. 

She IS such a good mommy! I was pretty stunned last night--stunned at how adventurous James was being (how he was pawing at the door and crying to leave the bathroom and explore-on his first time on his own out of the nest!), and stunned at Brooke's overtly protective reaction. It was just so OBVIOUS how worried she was, both in the tone of the noises she was making and her body language and actions. I had never seen her look at one of her kittens so intently and so concernedly before! Her concerned little trills are adorable, and I wish there was a way to reassure her other than talking to her and telling her that it's okay, her kitties will be safe. That's what I do, but I don't think it helps. :lol:


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## Leazie (Apr 14, 2007)

I wonder if she was so concerned because she knows that there are kitties on the other side of the door?


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Maybe? I tried again tonight and she was much more relaxed and let me sit with both of them while they tottered around the room. They even scratched the mini sisal post and horizontal cardboard scratcher (very feebly, of course, but it's a start!).

No progress with Brooke. She won't come any closer to me, and she won't let me pet her any more while she eats. She'll get kind of close, but then she feels uncomfortable and leaves me.

Still no news on Ron and Lily.


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## gunterkat (Aug 19, 2006)

Keep talking to Brooke. Tell her she is safe with you.
Be patient. She'll come around.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

*sigh* Thanks, guntercat, but I think Brooke is scaring herself!

Yesterday morning, when I checked on them, I saw that overnight she had knocked off the spare towels, medicine bottles, and syringes that were on the tall bathroom counter. She was huddled in the bathtub, shaking. She NEVER ventured on the counter before now, so I have no idea what made her do so, and what made her knock everything off! I don't care that they were knocked down, but I'm worried that she was so scared about it. 

When I went in the cats' room last night (I have had to work 11-12 hours a day lately due to craziness at my job, so I haven't had much time to spend with the foster kitties OR my kitties), James was walking around! So either he got out of the box himself or Brooke helped him. I brought Hermione out, too, to explore. Brooke seemed afraid of them, almost, because she was hiding behind the toilet and didn't come out the entire time that they were out. Well, maybe not AFRAID...I have no idea. She just stayed behind the toilet and when I held out a fingerful of canned food, she shrunk away from my hand.  I talked up a storm to her, put fresh towels in their nesting box, fresh water in the water dispenser, etc. Brooke was incommunicada for the night.

I made a litterbox for the kittens with a small, short plastic storage container. I cut down one of the sides so that they could enter and exit easily. I put down a little bit of litter- maybe 3/4 inch? Just enough to cover the bottom. When they explored it, I scratched at the litter with my fingers, and then I held their paws and helped them dig in the litter. I did this for each of them, and both of them decided that the litter was for MUNCHING ON. *facepalm* Of course, I'm not using clumping litter...I'm using the one the shelter gave me, which is Fresh Step non-clumping clay litter. I'm still worried- is it okay for them to ingest the clay litter, even if it is non-clumping?

Oh, and now that they're toddling around pretty speedily and regularly, they're also starting to come up to me (or my feet, rather) and scratch on my ankles, trying to climb up my leg. What are they doing there? Are they trying to get me to play with them? Trying to crawl up to see me? Just being annoying? Haha. Their little claws are SHARP- is it okay for me to clip them?

This morning, both kitties were in the nesting box feeding from Brooke. She DID get up from nursing them and approached me when I sat down, weaving between my legs for a minute before getting back in the box to nurse. She was also very enthusiastic when I reached into the box to rub her cheeks and under her chin. So maybe yesterday was just an anomaly?


Here's my dilemma--do I:

1. Keep being gentle with my socialization and not pushing her or scaring her...let HER approach ME when SHE feels like being touched, don't push the food on her, let her do it on her own time.
Pros: Less traumatic for Brooke (and myself)
Cons: There is no time to do this. I only have 3 more weeks, and then she will sit in a cage at the shelter. Unless she is adopted by someone really understanding or willing to socialize her over a long period of time, I think she'll be sitting there for a very long time, and only be touched once a day at best (when they take her out to clean her cage). 

or,
2. Play "the new kitten", as in approaching her--even if she's not in the mood or is backing off--and touching her, getting down behind the toilet with her, showing her that even when she doesn't want to be touched or picked up, that NOTHING BAD will happen, that she will not get hurt, that she will instead get food. Hopefully, I'd find her "barrier" and she will finally give up on the notion that touching is bad and scary and will accept that touching and humans are okay. Note that in this approach, I would never hurt her or force her...if she runs into the tub or behind the toilet, I would let her but I'd follow her there and continue touching her. 
Pros: It will be accustoming her to what most potential adopters will be doing to her, and hopefully making her more adoptable before she leaves me.
Cons: I have no idea if she will respond to this or not...or if it will provoke her to want to bite or scratch me. So far she has always chosen "flight" instead of "fight", but what if she starts choosing to scratch or bite me if I bother her enough? 

I know that Heidi's method is a little more in the middle between these two methods...if she were a kitten, I would choose option 2, but since she's already a young adult, I know that socialization usually takes longer...I just don't have that long! 

There are 400+ cats and kittens at our Humane Society (between the shelter and fosters)...the "cat whisperers" there don't have the time or manpower to give Brooke the attention she needs to be socialized. *sigh*


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## gunterkat (Aug 19, 2006)

I think what happened yesterday was an anomaly. She tried being brave and exploring, knocked something over, and the noise startled her. She tried to get away from the scary noise, but knocked something else over, making more scary noises. 
She scared herself into a panicky little furball sitting wide-eyed behind the toilet, having partly 'trained' herself against trying new things.
Poor little Brooke! atback
This is a setback, but not _too_ bad. She'll get over it. Just give her a day or two to consider what happened, still softly talking to her. Maybe cut back a tiny bit on the socialization lessons for a day, giving her time to calm down and see that she and her babies are still alright.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Thanks, John!

Brooke is starting to hang out behind the toilet more- and her kitties join her and nurse back there! *headdesk*

It's weird- sometimes she's very affectionate and rubs up against my hands and legs, and sometimes she just hides. The thing is, even when she's in an affectionate mood, she NEVER fully *relaxes*. My cats, especially Allegro, will jump in my lap and get cuddly and limp and basically conform to the shape of my lap (or leg, or whatever part of me they're wrapping themselves around). My cats fully relax when they're on top of me/laying by my feet, and they go to sleep either on top of me or DH or leaning on us. 

Brooke NEVER relaxes. Even when she's rubbing her cheek against my hand and lightly purring, her entire body is tense, back slightly arched, tail arched and pointed down (unless her tail is straight up and vibrating, like it sometimes is when I come in to visit her). She always seems like she's ready to run away if I make a wrong move. So it's like she loves having the attention and the cheek/chin rubs, but she is still afraid that I might hurt her or something.  She is always in tense fight-or-flight mode.

I've eased up on socialization and am focusing on just giving her attention and love when she'll let me. I'll try again today or tomorrow to get her to eat from my lap. 


I clipped the kitties' toenails yesterday. Definitely a strange experience for them! But I'm glad I did- their nails were getting caught on my clothes every time I picked them up. 

Still not using their little litterbox--but I am finding flakes of clay stuck to Hermione's lips! Silly kitty!  

They are LOVING to wrestle with each other- they do it constantly! There's this sisal rope mini-post with a spring and fluffy ball attached to the top that I have in their room, and they're already climbing it and batting at it. There are very small toy mice that I've scattered across the bathroom, and I discovered a pile of the toy mice in a crevice in between the nesting box and the tub- I doubt Brooke put them there, since she never did that sort of thing before (she prefers to put toys in the bathtub), and the nook is kind of small for her. Plus, both James and Hermione love hiding back there. So I think that they are stashing the mice there in their "secret place"....which is totally adorable!

I was telling Jake yesterday...this is going to be much easier because neither Brooke nor either of the kittens really LIKE me. The kittens certainly know my scent and recognize me, but they don't purr when I touch/hold them, and they certainly don't LIKE being held by me. Brooke enjoys the chin rubs and will come out from hiding to get attention sometimes, but she doesn't fully trust me or anyone who has intereacted with her that I've seen. It seems like, even when we're taking care of her, petting her, feeding her...she is still expecting, in the back of her mind, that we'll grab her and start shaking her or something. I have no idea what she's afraid of...but I do know that she IS afraid. 24/7.

It's not like the way Coda and Allegro acted when we first brought them home. They were in that same bathroom as their safe room, and when we went to visit them, they were all over us from day 1, jumping and lap-cuddling and headbutting and purring.

If Brooke or the kittens had acted like that to me....it would be so, so very hard to not adopt them. :'( 

My hope is to continue getting the kittens used to my touch and things like medicine-taking and nail-clipping...so that soon they WILL act like that to their future families. I wish it'd be possible for me to be there when they are adopted out....not likely that I will be, though. I would love to see who they're going to, and I would love to watch them get accustomed to their families and love on them like C+A do to us. I can't be there for that, though, so I'll have to imagine it and hope.


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

I hope there's time to socialize mother cat! It takes much longer to socialize an adult. However, the odds of being socialized at a shelter..or finding a home while unsocialized are not good. 

I believe in allowing the cat to make the decisions, and food on your lap should be a real incentive. I would not keep the food on my lap so that she doesn't have a choice. I wish (and hope) and that had the time to allow Brooke, with incentives, to make all of the decisions, but I understand that your time might be too short. I would be very careful not to force matters, but in a kind way, (food!) do a bit stronger coaxing. When she's eating, talk gently to her, and then begin to pet her during her dinnertime. Make sure ever interaction with you is rewarding or fun. I wish you the very best!


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Thanks, Jeanie!

What I've been doing is leaving the dry food out for her at all times (nursing Mommy needs her energy!) and leaving the yummy baby food and canned food for the training. So she does have a choice- she knows that if she ignores the canned food, she still has dry food to eat, or she can wait for the canned food I give her in the morning (I don't have time for socialization training before work). Sadly, food is not a very big motivator for her. Or at least, her fear of me is greater than her love of the food. 

I put the food on my finger and bring my finger up to her. She usually starts eating off of my finger. When I scoop my finger back in the jar/can for more, I move my hand an inch or two closer to me, so that inch by inch, she gets closer to me. The jar of food is always in my lap, but I bring the food to her with my finger. She has climbed on my legs eventually, but she doesn't stay long. After about a minute or two, she seems to realize how close she is to me and then she runs. 

I also try to pet her while she eats canned food from her bowl...she always makes a startled trilling noise, tenses up, and stops eating. I keep doing it, and can get to the point where I can lightly stroke her head while she eats, but she gets scared if I touch her anywhere else.

The time limit I have is imposed by the shelter... Firstly, I'm going on vacation in early August, and while I have someone coming to take care of my cats, the shelter does not allow a pet sitter to care for fosters. They also do not do foster situations for socialization purposes...they need their foster families for kittens, sick cats, and cats who do not do well in the cages.

I can see what I can do...but it is understood that I have to bring Brooke and the kittens back before I go on vacation.

Cross your fingers/paws for her!


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

I'll cross fingers, toes-es, whiskers and noses for Brooke! I just don't think that three weeks is enough time to socialize her through her watchful and nervous issues. You know I prefer a more hands-on approach but I think you have to weigh it against how much you'd be able to achieve in only three weeks. 

Unfortunately, I don't think that three weeks will be enough for Brooke to progress to adoption-day-handling status. In this case, I think your best goal for her will be to set it much lower and have it just be trying to help her feel more comfortable with people instead of so tense and watchful.

When we handle kitties for socialization, especially the ones who need better socialization skills, it *is* frightening and stressful in the beginning because they don't know what will happen and their fear prevents them from learning. It is only through patient repetition that they are able to work past their fear to actually *learn* and eventually *accept*, but this process takes as long as it takes for each cat. _There is no cookie-cutter way to approach socializing, each cat is an individual and requires an individual approach that works for them._

I fostered two sister-kitties who were well past the socialization age "cut-off-point" that most rescues put a limit on. I did NOT fully reach through to them until after their spay appointment. They had to spend two days at the vet, but when I brought them home ... the change in them was nothing short of phenomenal. I had been consistently handling them for weeks, which they tolerated but would not progress forward to willing participation. When they spent two days in A Scary Place and then came back to where they'd been gently handled ... and they realized my handling was *okay* and fully acceptable ... especially compared to That Scary Place (_sort of a good-cop, bad-cop situation_). After they had something to compare to, they started actively participating during handling sessions and then began to seek out my attention on their own initiative because they had made it past their fear and could progress to learning in a relaxed environment.

They did not have anything to judge my actions by until they spent time somewhere else. It was the unknown that held them back. 

My hope is that you are able to help Brooke become more comfortable around people. I also wonder if she will progress more as her kittens become a little older and more independent so she does't have to focus so much attention on keeping herself 'safe' to be able to care for her kittens. I think that is probably the biggest obstacle you are facing with her; mother-instinct. However the shelter you foster for appears to know when cats can do well at the organization's facility and when they need to be in a foster home and this could actually be "the learning opportunity" for Brooke ... that you helped set up! ... because you've treated her very well. She'll be back at the organization and if she doesn't do well, she'll probably be put into a foster home ... where because of your dedicated efforts ... she will recognize that being handled is GOOD. ...and it was YOU AND YOUR HUSBAND who laid that important groundwork for her to be successful at socialization. So, it may not happen with you, but you've laid a fabulous foundation for her future. 

Do the best you can with her and know that you did a GREAT job!
h =^..^=


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Thanks, Heidi. It is such a relief to think of it that way- that even though we will not reach a goal of being fully socialized in 3 weeks, ANYTHING that I can accomplish will have set a good foundation for further socialization by future fosters or owners.

And who knows- she may calm down a lot more once the kittens are weaned/once she's spayed.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

It's all baby steps. You may not be able to help her take all of them, but you've started her well on her journey to a happy home. 

Shadow is the only pregnant cat I've been around as an adult. Mallie and Pretty both kittened outdoors and while feral. I think Shadow was a pregnant-dump, but her personality *did* change and she opened up more after her litter was weaned and they went to the adoption center.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

I think you're right about mother instinct holding her back, Heidi.

This morning, when I came in the room, James started toddling towards me as fast as possible, tail straight up. Hermione was in the nesting box, but she flipped herself out of it and also started toddling towards me. I stroked them when they got near me and when they just sat on the floor looking up at me, I picked them up in turn and gave them morning cuddles.

Brooke watched this very intently with worried eyes (she never meows and hardly ever makes noises- other than excited or nervous trills- another reason I am sure she was never socialized to humans), and when I walked over to her, she scampered behind the toilet. When I looked at her behind there, she backed away. 

So I sat there awhile and watched the kittens play with each other, and I rubbed their bellies and scritched their fur.

Eventually, after about 15 minutes, Brooke emerged and let me rub her head/ears/cheeks. I had to leave 10 minutes later, and Brooke seemed sad to see me go, because she kept rubbing her head against my hand.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

paperbacknovel said:


> ... after about 15 minutes, Brooke emerged and let me rub her head/ears/cheeks. I had to leave 10 minutes later, and Brooke seemed sad to see me go, because she kept rubbing her head against my hand.


 This tells me she wants to socialize ... she just needs more time to "get used to the idea" before she commits to it. You're doing great ... and I love it when the babies run with tails straight up like little sails. It makes me smile every time I see it.
*_sigh_* kittens...


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Fortunately, it's the weekend, so I can be around them a lot more!


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Ho hum. 

They haven't used their litterbox yet. Will Brooke teach them to do this? Should I be worried? They walk in it every day and Hermione munches a bit on the litter, but they're not *going* in it. I don't see kitten turds anywhere, actually- should I? I just see little yellow-brown streaks on the floor and on their towel in the nesting box.

They also have shown no interest in Brooke's wet or dry food. They watch her eat it, and they sometimes walk in her food bowl, but nothing. I've tried mixing KMR and canned food into a soupy texture and spreading it thin on a plate, and Brooke just gobbles it up before the kitties can do much with it.

Oh, I just used the Furminator on Brooke tonight, and I think she actually liked it! She liked it better than my cats like it. It was like she was at a Spa Day.  No purring or anything, but she wasn't flipping out or running away. Her coat is SOOOO smooth and sleek and shiny now!

How do I discipline the kitties when they try to bite me? I don't want them to become biters.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

For biting kittens, I say a firm "no", push my hand *towards* them and then remove my hand. Pushing towards them surprises them, because they want to play-attack and 'prey' is supposed to try to get away and it is *fun* to prevent it from getting away. 
...but I think your kittens are still babies? At this age, I wouldn't mind them nibbling on me, they're teething and just don't understand. But when they get big enough to pounce and play with each other ... and *hurt* each other ... that is the perfect time to teach them hands are NOT toys by using the push towards them trick.

With babies, they won't really start to show an interest in the litterbox until they begin to eat solid foods. When they start on the solid foods is when their waste is unappealing to the Mom and she stops cleaning up after them and they show more interest in the litterbox. They can start on solid foods, usually canned foods, at about 4wks of age. 5wks is average, though of course there can be early and late developers, but generally by 6wks everyone in the litter is eating solid foods well. I always made sure the dry food I kept out was a product with tiny, rounded pieces so it would be easy to swallow w/out crunching and no sharp corners to scrape small throats.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Thanks Heidi!

So they're 4.5 weeks right now...when I bring canned food in, Brooke just eats it and they ignore it.

They will only be eating Science Diet dry Kitten formula at the shelter, so the shelter requires that we feed them that (but they don't have a requirement for canned food so I get to sneak them good stuff!). 

I see a bit of litter stuck to their butts, but I think it's because they go in there to play while their butts are dirty, because I poke around in the litter and never see anything.

Good news today! Brooke hesitantly approached me when I got halfway into the bathroom--and I was standing up, not sitting on the toilet!--to see if I had any food. I started feeding her the baby food while crouching down, and she got very close to me to eat the food and allowed me to pet her while she ate. The kittens approached me too but showed no interest in the baby food.

Only a little over 2 weeks left with them. :'( I'll miss having them around, but we can't keep them. I just want to be updated with what happens to them.

And I still haven't heard about Ron and Lily- they're still with the vet tech. I miss those sweethearts, too!


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

Sweet babies, and you are making slow and steady progress with Brooke. I sure wish she could stay with you a while longer for more socialization. She really seems to respond well to you.

With all of my fosters, I don't want updates. I prefer to not know. 
I was given a beautiful young mare some years ago and I only had her for a short time when she suffered a freak and tragic accident. She received the best of vet care from my personal vet and then the vet team at UGA Vet College, but the accident and resulting problems proved fatal. The lady who gave her to me, understood, but she said the former owner would like to hear from me about what happened, so I complied ... but the former owner, while suffering her own grief at the loss of a horse she had loved, said some inadvertently hurtful things, so now I prefer to NOT know. Sure, if everything is hunky-dory, I'd *love* to hear about it ... but I don't think I want to be like that one lady who wanted to hear about her filly's tragic end ~ and also *didn't* want to hear about her filly's tragic end.
_I do not want to feel regret or what-if's upon hearing of any tragedies because I saw first-hand how hard it was for that woman to hear the story of her filly, from me._


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

That's a really good point, Heidi. I was just clipping their claws the other day and thinking that some future owner might declaw them, and it made me really sad. 

If a future owner made them an outdoors cat (not allowed w/ the shelter, but people do lie on adoption applications) or declawed them or whatnot, I would be so upset.

Yes, I feel like Brooke is really coming along, but slowly. Even when she does approach me or let me pet her, she is still very nervous.


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## gunterkat (Aug 19, 2006)

You're doing great with Brooke, PBN.  Petting her while she munches treat-food from your hand is a really good way to get her used to human contact.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Thanks, John!

Another good report today.

This morning, I came halfway into the room and squatted down. Brooke hesitantly came towards me and I stretched my hand out towards her. She brushed her head against my hand and I was able to pet her. Haltingly, she got closer until she was in between my legs and brushing against my knees. 

She went back behind the toilet then, but I waited another minute or two, not looking at her but talking to her reassuringly, and she came forward again. I didn't have any treats that time, but I made sure to pet her and praise her. I stood up and she ran away, but a minute later she came back towards me.

Again, her back is kind of arched this whole time and she is very tense, but she did walk across the room to approach me and get petted when I came in. I'm definitely excited about that!


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## Leazie (Apr 14, 2007)

You are making progress!! You have done so much for Miss Brooke!


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Thank you, Leazie! 

I hope she doesn't think I've adopted her, and she won't feel abandoned when I have to bring her back.  Do you think she will feel that way?


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## gunterkat (Aug 19, 2006)

It's hard to tell with a feral kitty. 
She might feel like it is just a part of life, or she might feel like you abandoned her. 
I'm leaning toward the first one, and thinking she'll remember you with love. :love2


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## Leazie (Apr 14, 2007)

You can't think like that. You have to think that you have made a huge difference in her life and prepared her to move on to the next stage (which you have).


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

I am in absolute agreement with Gunter and Leazie. You've done a wonderful thing for her and she will always remember your kindness.

Our feral, Pretty, is still 'tense' when we handle her. Unless she has relaxed into your lap, if you touch or pet her, she jumps up to present herself for petting. I am assuming that she really enjoys the contact and doesn't want to miss a thing, but I am realist enough to know this is a remnant of her feral behavior; to be ready for *anything*. She lets me do what I want to her, I can kiss her all over, pet her belly, run my hand down her legs and hold her feet, but I can tell she sometimes has a puzzled expression when I do these things ... but since nothing bad ever happens and the rest of the handling feels so good ... she accepts it with grace, even if it isn't complete relaxation. Pretty is a cat that I have been working with for 6 years. 

Malibu was also like that and it wasn't until she almost died and I had to aggressively nurse her back to health and daily encourage her to live that she finally accepted me fully. I suspect most ferals are the same way (_reserved and watchful_) and while I wouldn't wish something like that on Pretty to improve our relationship by forging such a close bond of trust through adversity, I am content with what we *have* accomplished through the usual channels because I know it is gargantuan.

You have set Brooke up for success, and that is WONDERFUL!


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Thanks, guys! I feel so needy, constantly asking for reassurance in this thread. :blush:

Now I'm wondering if I'll be able to visit them once they're back at the shelter. The kittens may get snapped up right away, but I'd love to come back after my vacation and give snuggles to whoever's left. There's a "no touching" rule at the shelter, but that doesn't apply to volunteers who've passed the cat handling course and if you ask an employee...

Would that be detrimental for them to see me after I give them back, or do you think it'd be good for them if I came to give them cuddles every few days, to keep up the socialization?


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

I think it would be good.
I remember when I turned over Pretty's litter of four to the adoption center and I came back about 4dys later to buy some cat food and just cruised by the adoption center and recognized two of the kittens. I told the volunteer they were 'my fosters' and she let me in to visit with them. They rushed to the front of the exhibit cage to give me purrs and head-rubs through the bars. 
I was told two had been adopted into the same home the day before and these two had been adopted together just that morning and would be picked up in a few hours. 
It as very nice to be able to have a "last goodbye" with them. I didn't find it sad at all, I was very happy for them and their new lives.

First night inside:








All four and Tabby a few weeks later:


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

OMG, those pics are so precious. 

MAKE ME take pics of Hermione and James tonight! They are so adorable and I need to keep taking pictures of them!


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## gunterkat (Aug 19, 2006)

You *Must Take PICTURES!!*
:lol: :lol:


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

*MUST take pictures!*


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

*Pictures!!!*

They are REALLY hard to take pictures of- I took them out of the bathroom and down to our family room last night to play, and Hermione just ZOOMS everywhere. She even zoomed behind the couch and Allegro went after her and watched her! He didn't know how to get her out of there but he tried to stop her from going, and when she went behind the couch anyway, he followed her and stayed back there with her and meowed at me. Allegro is SO good with the kittens- totally relaxed from the very start and comes up to groom them. Coda, on the other hand, still hisses and growls softly at them. 

Here are the ones that turned out:
Me and the kittens (James on the left, Hermione on the right)-









Hermione:









Jake (my husband) and the kittens:


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## OctoberinMaine (Sep 12, 2006)

Great pictures! They're just adorable beyond words. Do you have a problem telling them apart?


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Thanks! No, I don't have a problem- Hermione is browner and James is grayer, plus they have totally different face shapes and eye shapes. Then again, they're totally different to me because I've seen them every day since their birth, and I've probably memorized their markings.

My husband has trouble sometimes, though. :lol:


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

Adorable! 
I had difficulty telling Pretty and Dusty's litter of four apart ... they were all brown tabbies, mackerel pattern and NO white markings! It became identification through nuance; face shape, fur texture, fur length, minor pattern variations ... and there was 1 boy so he was easy to identify from the rear.


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## Feisty Kitten (Jun 18, 2010)

Heidi n Q said:


> Adorable!
> I had difficulty telling Pretty and Dusty's litter of four apart ... they were all brown tabbies, mackerel pattern and NO white markings! It became identification through nuance; face shape, fur texture, fur length, minor pattern variations ... and there was 1 boy so he was easy to identify from the rear.


I'm just about starting to tell which one is which out of Jacksons 5 black cats. 

One of the boys has a white tip tail and is the lightest of them all. He almost looks brown. So I know which one is the other boy. He also has lighter stripes. One of the girls has alot of white specs on her arms, which another has tabby patterns and a small white patch in her armpit and on her chest. The other is mostly black with a few white specs.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Yeah, it was hard to tell when they were first born to one week old (other than Ron the marmalade kitty!). Once we checked which were boys and which were girls and noticed that Hermione was more brown, James was more gray (with a mostly black head), and Lily was lighter than the others, it became easier. 

I love picking those kitties up and kissing them repeatedly on their little noses and faces. As long as they're not getting hurt, I'm touching them often and everywhere, picking them up often, etc. just to get them to be friendly lap cats.

They're big enough that they're now scampering all over the bathroom, fighting with each other, grooming each other (adorable!), grooming themselves.

I hope they get adopted together. ♥


Brooke has been loving head rubs lately, but this morning when she rolled on her back while I pet her in her box (which is usually an invitation to scratch her belly and chin!), she freaked out and scampered away in a panic when I started rubbing her belly!


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## Leazie (Apr 14, 2007)

James and Herimone are ADORABLE!! It is nice to put a face to you and your husband, kitty heroes.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Leazie said:


> James and Herimone are ADORABLE!! It is nice to put a face to you and your husband, kitty heroes.


:luv Thanks Leazie! It's intimidating putting one's face out on the intertoobz.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

So GUESS WHAT???

I got James to eat on his own today!

I noticed that James and Hermione seemed hungry and were following Brooke around crying, trying to nurse, but she didn't lay down so they could do so. (They had not yet eaten cat food)

I went downstairs, mixed canned kitten food with warm KMR, spread it thinly on a plate, and brought it up. To keep them focused I put the plate in the nesting box and put Hermione and James in there with it (Brooke was next to me, laying on the floor). I dipped my finger in the "soup" and gently dotted it on their little mouth areas, causing them to lick their lips to get it off. Within a few minutes of doing this, James's little tongue was lapping it up directly off of my fingers! I was able to lead him bit by bit over to the plate, and after a few more minutes, he figured out how to eat directly from the plate! He ate a lot!!! <3 <3 <3 :luv: I'm so happy!

Hermione licked it off of herself but wasn't interested in eating it off my fingers. I also tried a syringe, and she ate some, but didn't like it it seemed. She was still crying at Brooke. 

Once I left, they were with Brooke behind the toilet and Hermione was wiggling around, trying to get to a nipple.

I'm so proud of James!


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

Yay! They are on their way to becoming "Big Kitties" now!


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

James is on my lap while I use the laptop. He's crawling round and trying to get down. Not gonna let you, little guy.


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## Leazie (Apr 14, 2007)

Zoom, zoom. Next he will be hanging off the curtains


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Heh heh. He kept licking and gnawing on my arms and hands. Not sure how to stop it since it's constant- he and Hermione greet me by biting my feet and ankles (and trying to climb up my legs with their little claws) when I sit down in their bathroom.

Guess what? At least James (and maybe Hermione too) is using the litterbox to pee! Haven't found any poop in there yet, but YES to lots of pee!


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Sooo...Hermione and James just got their first shots yesterday. The humane society lady said that they look GREAT and healthy, and so sweet. James is 1lb, 5 oz and Hermione is 1lb, 4oz. Right on track.

We got some great pics of them last night, esp. of James. He is REALLY taking to us, and Jake is REALLY taking to him. Jake keeps saying he wishes we could adopt him. Actually, Jake would adopt both kittens if we could. I kept telling him NO, we're taking them back to the humane society where they'll get great homes. 

Now I'm afraid Jake will go visit them in their cages once they turn 8 weeks and his resolve will...dissolve. And I'll come home from work and there they'll be.

I'm really determined not to become a foster failure. Everybody keeps sneering when they hear about us fostering, saying "oh, you won't be able to take them back, you'll just hoard them". I get snide comments, when people hear about the foster situation, about how our house is a "cat house", "cat farm" "kitty hotel", etc. WTH?? I guess those were the same people who were *shocked* when we got 2 cats and not 1. 

It's just frustrating. DH obviously loves James. I'm not AGAINST keeping him, but I DON'T WANT TO DO THAT. If we adopt again, I want it to be because we connect with an older cat or kitten- one that's having trouble getting adopted.


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## Leazie (Apr 14, 2007)

paperbacknovel said:


> Now I'm afraid Jake will go visit them in their cages once they turn 8 weeks and his resolve will...dissolve. And I'll come home from work and there they'll be.


 
Awww, just like my hubby :wink. I think that if you were to keep James you wouldn't be a failure because you are still sending Brooke and Herimone off to new homes. That is a success in my book!


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

I just found out that today is my last full day with Brooke and the kittens. The shelter will be really busy Fri. and Sat. morning, so I'm bringing them in on Thursday evening at 5:30. :'(

I shall be giving them tons of cuddles and loving tonight...

Any recommendations for how to say goodbye after almost 2 months??


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

That's going to be rough, but when they get adopted, they'll probably get lots of attention. You might shed some tears, but you'll be fostering more kittens. You have been such a good foster meowmie to these babies.


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## Leazie (Apr 14, 2007)

I started to cry for yor post just reading you. You have really done an amazing job with them.

Please give them some love from me.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Thank you so much, Jeanie and Leazie!

Our shelter just had a HUGE cat adoption event last weekend, and 69 cats (mostly kittens) were adopted. The adoption fee was reduced to $25 a cat just for that event. I'm kind of afraid that most people around here who wanted a kitty got one then! And there are so many more kittens and cats who are still at the shelter. So it could be awhile for them- especially for Brooke. 

Fortunately, I'll be able to come visit and play with them a bit once I'm back from vacation. And I'll be able to write a really nice "story" for Brooke (they like to have a few paragraphs attached to each cat cage that talk about that cat's personality, and it's especially nice when a foster mom or dad can give feedback, so they include whatever the foster parent wrote about them). 

I'll probably write the story tonight or tomorrow- I'll post it in here to ask for feedback!


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## OctoberinMaine (Sep 12, 2006)

Those write-ups are all important. It's the only reason I picked Murphy out of 300 cats at the SPCA, because their write-up said he was affectionate and declawed, two things I was looking for. So go for it! Write up a good one and that'll be a huge tool in getting them homes.

Congrats on everything you did for them. You're an inspiration!


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Thank you, October! I am so glad to have had the support of everyone here!

Here is my write-up. I told the lady that she could edit them where needed, b/c Brooke's is really long. Can I have feedback on the write-up? The lady who does the write-up sheets adds opening/closing info and just has a section where it says: "Here's what ______'s foster mom had to say about him/her:"

Brooke was a young mother- the vet guessed that she was around a year at most. She was very scared when she first arrived at my house, and at first she just hid and trembled when touched. She probably was mostly scared at being a young mother and shuffled from the shelter to my house, without knowing if she'd have be safe or have a safe place to have her kittens! After a few days, however, if I sat with her, she'd come out of hiding and rub her head against my legs. She started letting me pet her head and scratch under her chin. She had her kittens 4 days after arriving at our house, and she was such a good mommy! She did everything right, and was very attentive towards her babies. She got very sick with a URI shortly after starting to nurse. She was already very small and underweight, and she was so tired from nursing that she wasn't even feeding herself. Nursing her babies was more important, and she put every ounce of her energy towards nursing them and caring for them. She had to be fed by hand while she was lying down nursing, and she was very gentle and sweet while eating from my fingers. She would loved to be stroked and her chin to be scratched while she nursed. 

After a little while, she would get up from nursing and come say 'hello' to me when I came to visit her. As she got healthy and her kittens got older, she would start eating food off of my lap. She is always very hesitant and tense, though. I think she keeps thinking something bad might happen to her, but she bravely overrides that fear to come get headrubs and chin-scratches! She is a very quiet girl, preferring to speak with happy or anxious trills. She now greets me when I walk into "her" room with her tail straight up and trembling with excitement, and walks over to me to rub her head on my legs and hands and eat treats out of my hand. 

She does NOT like to be picked up, however, or being on a lap. It scares her so much. She doesn't bite or scratch you when she gets picked up- she is just terrified and trying to do anything to get away, but she never scratches or bites you to get away. She is just a sweet girl, but she has had a lot to be afraid of in her past, I think. It will take her a while to settle down in a home and not feel scared. The times she saw my other cats, she never hissed or acted aggressive towards them, but was very scared of them and cowered in the back of the carrier.

She is very good about using her litterbox (at first, though, she got confused and thought her cardboard nesting box was the litterbox, but she soon figured it out!) and she never scratched anything she wasn't supposed to. She was also calm and tolerated nail clippings and brushings. She has such soft, beautiful fur- gray tabby but also some ginger spots- a torbie!

This poor gentle girl needs a calm, quiet, loving home with a human who will reassure her, build her confidence and show her the love and respect she deserves. She just wants a place to feel finally "at home" and slowly come out of her shell. She is already so loving and sweet, and she will only get more loving and sweeter. I would recommend no children (just because of the noise factor- I don't think she would ever attack anyone, but she would be very scared in a noisy home) and either no pets or just other cats who are very low-key, calm, and will leave her alone. She may benefit from a cat friend, but it would have to be a very sweet, friendly, and calm cat friend who would back off and let HER approach THEM.


Hermione (the little girl kitten) is a sweetheart, but a mischeivous one! She was the first out of her brothers and sisters to open her eyes- and what big, beautiful eyes she has! She loves to play with dangly "teaser" toys and hide stuffed mice toys in corners. When I'm with her, she tries to get up to me by climbing up my pant leg. She enjoys laying on my chest and being petted and kissed on the nose. When she's off your lap, watch out! She'll quickly dart off, looking for an adventure. She was very sweet and calm when my 4-year-old nephew held her and my 1.5-year-old nephew petted her, so I think she will adapt well to a house with children.

James likes to curl up on my feet or chest. He is also very playful and put his little front paws on my chest and stare at me, brushing his little nose up against my face and sometimes licking my fingers. He also loves to sit on my shoulder like a parrot. He also did well with my young nephews and does well with my cats, so he would be fine in a household with young children and other cats.

They both also enjoy eating off of your fingertips, but also eat well from the bowl. They LOVE canned kitten food, especially Royal Canin for baby kittens. They both use their litter box well. They both love to climb and explore.


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## OctoberinMaine (Sep 12, 2006)

Awesome write-ups! You reached a good balance between realistic, don't-get-your-hopes-up type stuff, like her not being a lap cat, and hopefulness for the future and her loosening up a little more.

Just wondered, did you purposely not say anything about James and Hermione being adopted together, or is that not a consideration at this point? Do you think they'd be fine adopted separately?


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Thanks! I'd love for them to be adopted together, but it's a tough sell at my shelter. I was able to convince some people at the last cat event though...

They'd actually do fine apart, I think. I made a point of bringing them down to interact with us one at a time, both b/c it was easier to watch them that way and so that they wouldn't feel scared being alone while playing with people and other cats.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

PICS! From last night:

Hermione:


















James:


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

So I took them back yesterday evening.  Brooke and James were crying on the way there- Brooke in a kind of low, moaning 'meoooh', and James in a high, whimpering 'mew'. They had a large cage ready for them, and when I put Brooke inside, she ran to the litterbox and laid down in it, ABSOLUTELY TERRIFIED. She was back in the scary place with the sick cats and strange smells.  The cattery worker took pity on her (and probably on me, too, since I seemed worried) and fetched a plush stuffed "kitty bassinet" for them to sleep in that was big enough for all 3. I moved Brooke from the litterbox to the cushion. I brought their cardboard scratching board and 4 of their favorite toys. I will probably visit them today and/or tomorrow depending on how crazy things are with packing for vacation.

I only cried when I got home after running errands, and my first thought was to go upstairs and check on them.  Then when I went upstairs to bed, and I started to go in their room to say goodnight. Then this morning, after I fed Coda and Allegro, I started to get a plate of canned food ready for them. 

I hope I stop doing that soon...that's the tough part. I haven't gone in their room yet (was so tired yesterday), but I have to clean it out tonight.

The shelter also requested any pics I have of them so that they can post them on facebook and such.  I sent them all I had!


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Kind of a sad update- I just got back from vacation last night, and today I went to the shelter to check on Brooke and the kittens. They'll be 8 wks tomorrow. I couldn't find them anywhere! I was panicking and one of the cattery staff saw me wandering around the cages and told me that Brooke has been severely depressed--not eating or moving--and was so depressed this morning that they got another foster family to take her. He thinks that only one of the kitties went with her to the foster, and maybe another foster family took the other kitten. He only knows that he looked in the cage and instead of Brooke + 2 kittens, he only saw 1 kitten, and now a completely different cat is in that cage. I looked everywhere and none of them were at the shelter, so I can only hope that they're in good fosters. I was visibly upset, and he asked me if I was OK. I told him that if she was still depressed at the other foster home, I'd take her. I hope she does well there.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

atback Oh, Honey! atback


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## Leazie (Apr 14, 2007)

I'm so, so sorry about Brooke and the kittens. Hugs to you!


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Thanks so much, guys. I'm just really upset thinking about Brooke being depressed in her cage--maybe she needed more chin-scratches or for someone to feed her canned food from their fingers, but the shelter doesn't have time for that. Brooke was never a perky or "happy" cat while she stayed with me, but at least she wasn't DEPRESSED--she was eating fine and came out to see me when I entered the room, and she liked being petted. But now...I want to find out who is fostering her and ask if I can be updated or give them any help. Poor little Brooke! She probably thinks I had adopted her and then I abandoned her. :'( I doubt she understands fostering...

Funkycub, thank you! I can't believe you sat down and read all of that! I am so thankful and grateful for all of the help I've received from the wonderful members here--this is a truly special place!

And yes, I tell Coda and Allegro all the time how spoiled they are--I go to the shelter and see all the kitties cooped up in tiny cages with nothing to scratch, no beds (just a towel spread out on the bottom of the cage, so often the shelter cats sleep in their litterboxes, which makes potential adopters go "ew"), and very little human interaction. And then I come home and C+A are curled up on the couch after dining on their premium cat food.

I'd say more, but I'm at work and exhausted (only 3hrs sleep last night). But thank you again so very much!


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

I know, it's KILLING me to think about it. I dropped them off on a Thursday and visited them the next day before I left for vacation, and she had flipped the plush bassinet over so that she was cowering UNDERNEATH it, and she'd hide there with the kittens. I reached my hand underneath and petted her, and I got her to purr. I held and played with Hermione and James, but Brooke stayed hidden. I was so worried, but I had to leave and I assumed that she would be OK.  Not that the shelter didn't care for her...she's just so scared and I'm terrified that she thinks that she was abandoned again. Poor Brooke. :'( 

I emailed the foster coordinator asking her to PLEASE give me any updates about Brooke, Hermione, James, Ron, and Lily. Haven't heard back yet. :-/


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