# Love Bites from kitty?



## parad0x (Oct 7, 2014)

Meow meow has been with me for about a month now. When he first came, i brought him for grooming immediately as he was a stray (vet even found a mini snail in his fur). The 1st groomer called me to take him back after 15 mins saying he attacked him. 

I changed groomers immediately (the 2nd groomer was way way better. He was realllllyyy patient with kitty and took time to ensure that kitty was comfortable before he started anything). The 2nd groomer did warn me he is an aggressive cat as he pounces to full attack instead of giving warning swipes like most cats do as he most probs does not trust humans (he got a long scratch despite his patience). He said with time it should be better.

Anyway just wanted to ask. How to tell if a bite is a love bite or a bite due to bad habits? 

I guess i know what he gets aggressive about (i have scars and bruises to prove it :wink - Ie he is territorial about his litter box. If he sees me cleaning it... he goes ballistic and throws himself at me to bite and scratch me to bits. He also gets aggressive if he wants to go to bed and i stand between him and his sink (which he has claimed as a bed). I have taken to wearing jeans when i am not in my room (which he is not allowed into).

But now i try not to do the stuff that triggers his aggression. But sometimes when i ignore him when he head butts me and rubs against me, he nips and stares at me with his teeth still in me, lets go, then continues to rub and head butt me. It is not the aggressive-draw-blood kind of bite, but is painful nonetheless despite the jeans. Is this a love bite? If he is, much as i want his love i would rather not have the accompanying bites :roll: 

I have tried ignoring and walking away, but that led to harder and more painful bites. I have tried pushing him away as well. He just comes back for more.

What can i do? T_T


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## Marcia (Dec 26, 2010)

Those are not love bites. I am so sorry you are going through this. I was bit by a cat and spent a week in the hospital with talk of amputation, so I am SUPER cautious about cats like this. My Lacey Mae nips and it totally unnerves me when this happens. Other to say I'm sorry he is this way, I can't offer advice that would be constructive. The head butting part of the biting is a love bite but I discourage my cats from doing that by yelping like a wounded cat, turning my back or putting them on the floor then ignoring them.


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## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

parad0x said:


> I guess i know what he gets aggressive about (i have scars and bruises to prove it :wink - Ie he is territorial about his litter box. If he sees me cleaning it... he goes ballistic and throws himself at me to bite and scratch me to bits. He also gets aggressive if he wants to go to bed and i stand between him and his sink (which he has claimed as a bed). I have taken to wearing jeans when i am not in my room (which he is not allowed into).


Since it seems like Meow Meow didn't learn bite inhibition when he was young you may always be stuck with a certain amount of biting. It also sounds like his self-control and frustration threshold is pretty low. How old is he?

Even with an adult cat you can help change the behavior somewhat, but chances are he'll always bite if he feel threatened. In the mean time there's a few things you can do to decrease your bruises and scratches:

-Carry a large toy with you, so when he's in a playful mood he can chomp that rather than you.
-When you need to do something that makes him anxious/aggressive but doesn't require his presence (litter box!) shut him in another room with a few treats so you can safely do what needs done.
-Is he neutered? If not I'd ask the vet to put on softpaws while he's under!
-Make a point of getting up and leaving if he starts getting worked up - ideally you leave BEFORE he starts chomping. So he learns that starting to get excited means no attention, and you can get out before he's so worked up that he bites.
-Bring food treats when you are with him, if he starts becoming excited (big pupils, ears back, tail twitching/lashing, quick movements, ect) toss a few treats around to switch his brain from 'crazy' mode to 'Ooh! Treats!' It works really well with some cats, less well with others, but it's certainly worth a try.
-Have a routine for the parts of the day or areas you've noticed trigger him. Use treats to refocus his brain and reduce his anxiety level.
-Consider clicker training and exercise for him. It sounds like part of the problem may be pent up energy. Clicker training can help increase his self control and work his little brain, exercise may get out some of that aggressiveness.



parad0x said:


> ...he head butts me and rubs against me, he nips and stares at me with his teeth still in me, lets go, then continues to rub and head butt me. It is not the aggressive-draw-blood kind of bite, but is painful nonetheless despite the jeans. Is this a love bite?


Yep. THAT is a love bite. How you handle it is up to you - I choose to allow them, but I also made a point of teaching my boys (the girls don't love bite) appropriate pressure when they were little. Gentle, careful nibbles were allowed. Chomps were not. I would use my voice, in a warning tone, to caution them and if they didn't listen they got moved off my lap and given a toy they could bite and kick all they wanted.



parad0x said:


> I have tried ignoring and walking away, but that led to harder and more painful bites. I have tried pushing him away as well. He just comes back for more.
> 
> What can i do? T_T


With a cat like this, who gets frustrated really easily and aggressively acts out on that frustration, you need to keep him from getting over his threshold. Basically, don't let him get so worked up.

An example might go like this:

You're in visiting him, sitting and petting. He turns and looks directly at your hand, so you stop moving. His ears flick backwards. You calmly say "Ok, done." And toss a few treats or a toy on the floor as you stand up. As he eats the treats you grab a wand toy and get him to play for a bit.

Or

You're in visiting him, sitting and petting. He turns and looks directly at your hand, so you stop moving. His ears flick backwards. You don't notice and keep petting. He bites because his first warnings weren't heeded. You try to get up, but he's too excited now and your moving is too enticing. He bites and grabs you.

You need to stop and move BEFORE he's so worked up that he bites. That means it's up to you to watch carefully and learn his signals. There is no cat on earth that actually bites 'without warning'. There are always warnings, but we sometimes miss them (we're humans, we don't all speak cat  )


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## parad0x (Oct 7, 2014)

Marcia said:


> I was bit by a cat and spent a week in the hospital with talk of amputation, so I am SUPER cautious about cats like this.


:shock: I hope you recovered from that! It must have been horrible!~  I had an uncle who lost a thumb to a cat scratch, which made my family nervy about a biting and scratching cat too. The 1st time i was majorly scratched and bit, i saw a doc immediately and took antibiotics. I also have extra antibiotics on hand (doc's suspicions of why i needed so much antibiotics popped the moment he saw the injuries on my leg :lol




librarychick said:


> Since it seems like Meow Meow didn't learn bite inhibition when he was young you may always be stuck with a certain amount of biting. It also sounds like his self-control and frustration threshold is pretty low. How old is he?


The vet guesstimated Meow Meow's age to be about 4 and that he is neutered. He was a stray for about 2 months odd before that (Owners moved out and left him and another cat behind and the neighbours had been feeding the cats)



librarychick said:


> You need to stop and move BEFORE he's so worked up that he bites. That means it's up to you to watch carefully and learn his signals. There is no cat on earth that actually bites 'without warning'. There are always warnings, but we sometimes miss them (we're humans, we don't all speak cat  )


YAY!!! thank you so much for all the advice! I will try them and hopefully with time and patience i will train him out of it! He is a rather adorable kitty when he puts his mind to it 

When he is aggressive, he kinda prances at my feet (really tiny little hops/twitches which look like he's deciding to jump or not and brakes at the last min). He also growls sometimes (but i kinda find it hard to distinguish his growl from his purr as both are low and loud, but i think the tiny prances seal my fate). 

The love nips are the ones that come without warning (at least not any i have managed to detect yet). I am not keen on the love nips which i am worried will escalate so i will try to train that out of him. He managed to learn that claws out while kneading on my lap is a no no (no more lap time!) so i have some hope for him yet 

I have established a routine with him nowadays the moment i wake and when i get home from work - Hunt, Kill, Eat, Groom, Sleep (Thank you My Cat from ****!!!! ) which has toned down the aggression quite a lot the last 1 1/2 weeks *prayfully!* and i try to play till he is exhausted (ie lies down and refuses to get up till i rattle his food dish). It also helps with the yowling at night. 

On top of that introduced kitty puzzles for him. I hope that will also help with his frustration and his boredom.


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Parad0x,
One hint I haven't seen listed here...
As much as it is instinctive, to pull away from a bite...DON'T!!
Yell owwww or ouch, wait till kitty stops biting, then calmly remove your finger or hand or foot!
If you jerk, it can make kitty bite harder, trying to hold on to the "prey"!
I have four cats that will give "Love Bites" and I am amazed at how much control they have, with how much pressure they use!
Mr. Jazzy was the one I had to work with for a while!
When he had a finger, and was using to much "bite", I'd say Owww! Thats my finger, Jazzy!
He got it pretty fast!
Now he gives very gentle "bites" and kisses!!
Sharon


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## Mandy and Ellie (Oct 22, 2013)

My Ellie also never learned bite inhibition from her mother. I don't think bites are ever "love-bites"... as I would be petting her or playing and then just randomly she'd bite me (not necessarily hard, but sometimes it could be). She would randomly bite me... up until we got our kitten Tootsie. Now they play and rough-house, and they've taught eachother really good kitty manners. Ellie is an angel now and hasn't bitten me once since Tootsie has been here! Random, but I thought I would comment that... maybe he needs a buddy to let his energy out on and teach him some manners!


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## Sundown (Aug 11, 2014)

librarychick said:


> There is no cat on earth that actually bites 'without warning'. There are always warnings, but we sometimes miss them (we're humans, we don't all speak cat  )


Can you explain this please? Cat is in the kitchen. I am in the living room. I sit down and suddenly cat is by my side and bites my arm. Where was the warning I missed?


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Sundown,
LOL! Good question! 
Maybe cat was in kitchen because he/she wanted a snack...was ignored...and bit you as punishment for not seeing what was so obvious to it!!
(And yes, I'm teasing you!)
Sharon


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## ezmeray (Nov 8, 2012)

I second the thing about needing to learn the triggers and see the warning signs. My late cat was a life-long biter, but towards the end of her life, I knew her triggers so well that I could prevent them from occurring, or if I saw a situation developing that I knew would lead to a bite I could avert it, and knew her warnings well enough that I could defuse the situation when I saw an attack coming up. I mean, I still received a blood-drawing bite every two months or so, but that was pretty good really, considering her apparent anger issues..Otherwise she was super sweet towards the people she liked, provided the above mentioned situations were avoided.. 

Luckily, despite her aggressive biting throughout her entire 18 years, no infections ever resulted.


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## parad0x (Oct 7, 2014)

10cats2dogs said:


> Parad0x,
> One hint I haven't seen listed here...
> As much as it is instinctive, to pull away from a bite...DON'T!!
> Yell owwww or ouch, wait till kitty stops biting, then calmly remove your finger or hand or foot!
> If you jerk, it can make kitty bite harder, trying to hold on to the "prey"!


Oh man! i will give it my best shot :lol: i wonder if also crying like a wounded cat like what Marcia suggested would help him to stop biting me at that instant. But will need to find out how to sound like that >_< 

I also put a bell on him so i'd know where he is at all times. Which means i can keep out of his way when i hear him run towards me (50% which results in me being bitten).

Yesterday was strange. He just decided that he doesn't want to follow me any more after trailing along behind me for 5 mins or so and he bit me (~_~);;;;; Luckily the bite was a surface bite. The thing is.. he CHOSE to follow me about and it's not really my fault i had things to do and places in the house i had to go. He could choose to not follow and sit on his cat condo, hi bed, the sofa or basically ploink himself on the floor...

Weird thing is that he has another cat friend (at least both of them were abandoned together and i used to see them together all the time). And this is starting to make me wonder if the other kitty is like that as well (i really wanted to adopt the other one, but i don;t think i have the space or the resources to do as as Meow Meow is already more than a handful).

After all the comments i am kinda resigning myself to fate that he will be a bitey cat for the rest of his life. But i am determined to make these instances as few as possible


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## cat owner again (Dec 14, 2012)

My male cat doesn't react at all to the yell at biting but my female come running to see what is going on.


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## Heather72754 (Nov 1, 2013)

10cats2dogs said:


> As much as it is instinctive, to pull away from a bite...DON'T!!


I would go one better - not only should you not pull away, but I have seen it suggested to actually put pressure towards the cat, which is a bit uncomfortable to them and something that prey would never do. Some people have found this really discourages their cat from biting.

I have only had one cat that love bites, and it's my little Mystique. When I get up in the morning she is particularly ecstatic, and as soon as I hang my feet over the edge of the bed to get up she will stand up on her hind legs, hold onto my foot with her front paws, and love bite my toes. She does really well with the pressure though, I've never had to correct her. The only problem is that it really tickles lol. Sometimes she also will love bite my arm when I am patting her, or she will also grab the leg of my pajamas and shake her head while purring up a storm. She is adorable. :grin:


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## Marcia (Dec 26, 2010)

Sundown said:


> Can you explain this please? Cat is in the kitchen. I am in the living room. I sit down and suddenly cat is by my side and bites my arm. Where was the warning I missed?


A note from the cat: "I exist, therefore be forewarned!" :crazy


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## Heather72754 (Nov 1, 2013)

LOL

Additional note from the cat: "You are now sitting down and therefore are a nice stationary target" :lol:


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## parad0x (Oct 7, 2014)

Ooo so I can push towards him? But will he slip since the floor is tile and he is on his hind legs only (which means a worse injury?)


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## Mochas Mommy (Dec 9, 2013)

push lightly...he may move back a little and probably won't like that either. Hopefully he will soon learn that "bite human" = uncomfortable.


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## Speechie (Dec 2, 2013)

Great advice here, I am wondering if trying some Feliway would help, given he is still new to you and he may be working through stress. 
Hugs and I hope he eventually settles down for you


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## parad0x (Oct 7, 2014)

I will try on giving pressure the next time he bites  hopefully he gets the point 

On the slightly bright side I am going 3 or 4 days without bites and scratches instead of being bit every other day ^.^; 

Yup! I am working on procuring some feliway. Somehow the local shops are robbers in disguise. 

They sell feliway (diffuser and refills) for triple what amazon (or anywhere else) sells it. Working on either route shipping it over or for my sis to bring some back when she is back on winter break (amazon doesn't ship direct here too *headdesk*).


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## parad0x (Oct 7, 2014)

Just a slight update  

I have been keeping my fingers crossed and have luckily fended of 1 1/2 aggressive attacks the past 2 weeks or so. 

I have hung full sized bath towels at various locations around my house (looks weird, but my pain matters more ) and taken to carrying one too. When he gets into one of his moods (ie the growls and the prances) and goes for me, i throw the towel over his head to break his line of sight from the prey (me ). 

This distracts him as he wriggles out from under the towel without harming him. It just confuses him. The towel is also great for hiding my toes from him (his 2nd choice if unable to get to my thighs). I also do the stern "No!"s whiile staying as still as a statue which seems to also help.

I have also tried to exhaust him more everyday (ie vigorous play times when he is in the mood) and i put out loads of chew/dental toys.

There is light at the end of the tunnel :lol: Now if only the tunnel was quieter (am also dealing with his midnight 2-hourly yowls by ignoring him which he hates)...


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## Marcia (Dec 26, 2010)

GREAT update! So glad you are trying to work through this. My Billy play bit me HARD until he was 7. When I got bit by a friends cat and ended up in the hospital for a week I spent a month afterwards recuperating at home. I was messed up for 6 weeks because of that cat bite and subsequent infection. While I was in bed the first day home - barely amongst the living, having to fend for myself because hubby was on deployment, Billy love bit me like he always has. I was SO rattled I BURST out crying, sobbing uncontrollably. I was an emotional mess and I think that startled him enough that he NEVER bit me again. To this day, I use the "squeal like a stuck pig" with a VERY sad look when a foster kitten bites too hard. I've been able to control it in just about every kitten I've fostered now.

There was a period of time many years ago when all were fairly young, all cats were banned from the bedroom at night. We closed the door and set up a fan for background hum to drown out any noise. Sometimes it worked but after a few weeks they stopped bugging us to get in. They now make an aerosol can that can be placed by the door called Ssscat. Available on Amazon. This will send a puff of compressed air when he approaches the door. Look it up and be sure and watch the video at the bottom of the page under reviews.


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## parad0x (Oct 7, 2014)

I'm glad that you got better! It must be a really traumatic experience esp all alone! *pats* 

unfortunately sscat is not available here and amazon doesn't ship  I guess is back to the ear plugs method till he gets it (~.~)""

oh and clicker training that was mentioned earlier does work wonders!  He now sits 80% of the time when commanded to. But he only listens to crisp precise pronunciations. Any slur or words not clearly spoken... he pretends that it has nothing to do with him :lol:


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## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

The reason he's not responding to slurred or unclear words is that he honestly doesn't understand them. Cats don't communicate verbally in the same way we do, so they aren't designed to understand language without LOTS of repitition. They can pick up certain words with training, but it's still hard for them.

Think about trying to learn a completely new language and distinguishing two similar-sounding words from each other. It takes a while to get it right because your ear isn't attuned to those sounds. That is what's happening. He's not 'being a jerk' or 'pretending' anything - he just needs you to try again in a clearer voice.

This is party why I also use hand signals with my cats - if they see the hand signal for 'touch' but miss me saying the word they've got another clue to go off of and are more likely to guess correctly. The more you can do to improve his chances the better it will be  Another good reason is for when you get sick, you can't always be clear and crisp with your words, but even if you've lost your voice you can still make hand signals!

I'm glad to hear he's improving - I find that once you find a way to open lines of communication it reduces frustration in both you and your pet. That reduces tension which will help him be calmer overall.


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## parad0x (Oct 7, 2014)

Ah! Thanks for explaining  Now I know where I went wrong 10% of the time. I suspect he just doesn't get it the remaining 10% or forgets. But no worries! We will work on it. After all it has only been 5 days or so and I (along with like almost everyone I know!) am already amazed by that 80%! It's really more than what we can ask for from a kitty that came to us aggressive.

Thank you! Indeed my boy has come such a long way (Thank you everyone for all the advice!). I am grateful that he is much better and more settled kitty. He has also started to "own" stuff like his kitty condo and carrier (he loves sleeping in the carrier.... which should make carrier training go easier :lol. Which means he is also less territorial about his litter box (but I still try not to tempt fate and change it while he is distracted with his food). 

Clicker training is also something I look forward to every evening and I am sure he does too (he inhales the orijins treats (rewards) as if air :lol:


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## loveyouhun (Sep 12, 2013)

when I first got Jewel she used to bite me. Boy did I have scars and scratches from her. Now as we learned about each other (likes and dislikes) she now do play nip. When I'm on the couch she come up and lay by my feet she sometime nip them. I'm like "cut it out, Jewel." She doesn't and I have to move or move her. I totally ignore her when she does this. Hoping she will know I don't like it. 
Jewel hate when I rub or tickle her stomach. Her nails come out and she scratch me. What does this mean? I mean I'm wondering if it from her past and something happen or she just doesn't like it. She was with an owner before she was given to Humane Society and I adopted her. 

Christa


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## spirite (Jul 31, 2012)

parad0x, so glad that things are going better. It sounds like you're making amazing progress with him, and kudos to you for being ready and willing to do the hard work to make your relationship a long and happy one. 

loveyouhun, a lot of kitties don't like being touched on the tummy. That's a very vulnerable spot for them, and even if kitty shows you her tummy, it doesn't necessarily mean "come pet me." One of my girls absolutely loves having her tummy rubbed. The other will roll over on her back, looking for all the world like she wants a tummy rub, but the minute my fingers start to come near her, all four paws are ready to wrap themselves around my fingers. She's a very sweet kitty, but she just doesn't like petting other than around the head.


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## Heather72754 (Nov 1, 2013)

loveyouhun said:


> Jewel hate when I rub or tickle her stomach. Her nails come out and she scratch me. What does this mean?


Spirite is right, some cats just don't like it period. But in your case, there is definitely no way Jewel is going to trust you enough to allow you to touch her most vulnerable spot since you freely admit you have used physical punishment on her. That makes you untrustworthy in her eyes.


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## cat owner again (Dec 14, 2012)

Just like relationships it takes time to learn each others likes and dislikes. Oddly enough my male lets me pet his belly, pick him up, examine him but he always gives warning bites the minute he has had enough. And it usually is a minute. My female who is likes all the touching won't let me pick her up and is not fond of me touching her belly.


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## parad0x (Oct 7, 2014)

It's me again  After 2 months i'm pleased to say Miao Miao has made improvements. I now can change the kitty litter totally with him just watching and only coming over to inspect my work after that. He even calls for me to change the kitty litter when he's done :lol: We are working on "Sit" aiming for 100%, and "Stay"'s a little harder, but we just need more time  

Unfortunately he has also picked up a new bad habit, which is to sit right outside which ever door i am on the other side of. Eg my room door (it's glass, so it's like seeing a kitty shadow, Alfred Hitchcock's Psycho-bath-room-scene like), the bathroom door & the door to the kitchen (where he is not allowed). 

This is not too bad. Except for the bathroom door bit. He sits right there and when i am out, refuses to let me go anywhere, esp to my room. He rubs against my still-wet-from-shower legs and he gets gunky, then he gets irritated and bites and claws me after he gets himself gunky and gets even angrier when i try to move off so he doesn't get gunkier than he already is ~_~;;;;;; 

The towel trick doesn't always work any more since he now attacks the towel when he is in one of his moods.

I have taken to sitting ard in the bathroom till he goes away (which can be any time from 15 to half an hour). Don;t really wanna spend what is left of the night sitting in the loo out waiting a cat though. Any ideas how to make him stop? Strangely he doesn't go that in the mornings, only at night.

Kitty is totally adorable, but he really tests me sometimes >_< it's like 2 steps forward 1 step back.


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## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

Teach him to 'target' a sticky note low on the wall in a specific place - ie, the kitchen. Then, once he's becoming advanced, you can send him there and reward him for moving away from you rather than guarding the door. (if you don't have sticky notes any different colored paper will do, it has to be contrasting to your wall - dark wall = light paper, etc)

To teach it, start with the sticky note where you want it in your home (at kitty-nose level).
Sit within arm's reach and call Miao Miao over, hold a treat behind the sticky note.
When his nose touches the paper click and treat.
Repeat a LOT.
Add your cue of 'touch' or 'target'
Stretch distance by saying 'target' then clicking when he makes nose-contact with the paper
Gradually increase distance one step (or bum-wiggle back) until he's confident at each stage
Try from different positions, standing, kneeling, etc
As he gets better try from just out of sight of the sticky, then try from the litter box, feeding area, or bathroom - as you start from farther away start throwing the treat to the right general area (you might need to practice  ), the goal is just for him to move away after all. Sending him away from you is the behavior you want to reward.
It will take a LOT of practice, but it will help 

In the beginning you could also have a little dish of treats in the bathroom cupboard, when you open the bathroom door toss a treat into the next room (make sure he sees!), you can add a cue too if you practice this.


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## Marcia (Dec 26, 2010)

Hand gestures work too. I use the palm up like this to keep them from jumping on the counters.


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## parad0x (Oct 7, 2014)

wow! thanks librarychick! I will try that!  looks like loads of fun which would also hopefully keep him out of mischief 

Marcia, haha! For me that action is for him to get stay. Sit is this harry-potter-wand-like wave that ends with a point to his read end  i have yet to keep miao miao from jumping where he likes..... unless i shake his treat bag :/


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## parad0x (Oct 7, 2014)

Sadly, much as i love miao miao, i think the last straw is today. I was late in feeding him as i was dead tired from working ot till late last 2 week and well, he didn't seem to like the wet food i gave him and while i was sitting on the floor, he leaped towards my face. 

I now have a short deep scratch on the right of my face, starting slightly inside my mouth to the outside of my lips that bleeds alot and looks deep, the cheek has a shallow scratch too. Left arm had a similarity deep scratch and a shallow scratch on my knee  i tried to disinfect all as much as i could, but am still really shaken up having a huge ass cat leap at my face.

Honestly while the leg wounds were bad, i guess in a way i could tolerate them, but the face is really out of bounds as what if he got my eyes *sighs*


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## cat owner again (Dec 14, 2012)

At any sign that redness develops or you don't feel, please go to a doctor just in case you need antibiotics. I have to admit, I wouldn't be a fan of a cat that did that to me.


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## parad0x (Oct 7, 2014)

I heaped loads of the antibotics cream the doctor gave. The rest is just waiting for the wounds to heal and loads of praying I dont scar ( joker's best friend). My colleagues were all kinda  to see all the injuries inflicted upon me by a single cat >.< 

My family and I really do love miao miao and we will try one last time with him to see if he improves and if he doesnt, I will foster him with friend who has a few cats to see if having kitty company would improve his aggressive streak and teach him kitty manners. If it does yay  if not back to the drawing board to find out ways that will not get me beat up when someone annoys him (yes despite being his care taker, I am right at the bottom of the totem pole, the one he bullies when he aint in the best of moods). Meh


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