# Need Help With Feral Kittens



## Southerner1 (Jan 17, 2009)

I found two feral kittens, probably 3 or 4 months old, living in the crawl space beneath my home. I know they are still pretty young, but they seem extremely feral. They're terrified of people. One bit me. I'm not sure which one it was. I have them quarantined at a local vet's office for 10 days. At the end of the quarantine, I'm not sure what I will do with them. I can't let them live in the crawl space of my home because it's not really my home. I'm renting and the owner won't hear of it. He's securing the crawl space door. And, if I'm caught with the kittens in the garage, I could lose my lease (the owner is extremely against any more pets on the property). I have to find a new home for the kittens somewhere. Can you give me ideas of places that might take them in? What do you think the chances are of my placing them by next Thursday?


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

You are so limited in time, and these kittens will have to be tamed soon in order to have a shelter take them in. These organizations (by state) offer low cost or free neutering and spaying:

http://www.lovethatcat.com/spayneuter.html

And this link should help with with trapping and many other aspects of helping ferals. I wish you the best.

http://muttcats.com/articles/taming_ferals.htm

http://www.peninsulacatworks.org/tnr/trapping.php


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

Southerner...how close are you to (me) Atlanta or Athens, Georgia? 
I foster and tame ferals for the adoption center at my nearest PetsMart. I have two kittens now, that I trapped at the age of 3mo and have tamed, they turned out very nice. They are going next week to be spayed and a week after that they will be leaving me and going to the center to find their forever homes. 

You could contact cat rescues near you, see if a PetsMart near you has people you can talk to about finding foster homes for these kittens. The organization I foster for is called For Paws Sake, but I don't know it that is only near me or if FPS works out of every PetsMart.

Good luck,
Heidi


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## Southerner1 (Jan 17, 2009)

Jeanie and Heidi, thank you so much for your suggestions. Heidi, I live in Nashville, TN about 5 hours from Atlanta, GA. There is a Petsmart near me and I will contact them tomorrow and ask about For Paws Sake. If I can't find a rescue near me willing to take these kittens, do you think For Paws Sake in your area might consider taking them? 

My only concern is that they seem so feral. The vet tech said she thought they were 3 or 4 months old. Let's say they are 4 months (16 weeks) and very feral, could someone experienced tame them at that age?


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

I trapped Bella and Mischy when they were about 3-4mo old and I was able to tame them from completely feral. It was challenging because I hadn't taken in such older kittens before, but I haven't failed in taming a feral, yet. It was time-consuming but very rewarding. I want to offer to take them for you, but I just don't think I can right now. My reluctance stems from the fact that I have health issues. I am currently taking chemo injections (I do not have cancer) but they leave me feeling nauseous and weak because I have a difficult time eating to keep my strength up. I really need to take a break for a bit so I can try to gain weight and strength before fostering again.
When I see the FPS director next week to drop the girls off for their spay appointment, I can ask her if any of their foster families have room to tame two ferals. I just wouldn't tell her they are coming from TN, only that I know of them and they are in need. I know she would take any that I took in, but I just don't think I have the energy right now.

I did a google search for "Nashville, TN Cat Fostering Organizations" and this is what I came up with:
http://www.google.com/search?q=Nashvill ... 1I7GGIC_en

I wish you very good luck in finding these kittens a foster situation near you.
Heidi

Novenber, 4, 2008. Bella, 5min after we transferred her from the trap to the carrier:








Mischy & Bella, probably the week of 11/10:








Last night, 1/15/09:


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## Southerner1 (Jan 17, 2009)

I certainly understand about your health issues and hope that you recover completely very soon. If you do get a chance to ask the FPS director if there is a foster family available to tame ferals, I would really appreciate it. 

As I said, I have them boarded at at vet's office right now. I asked if I could take the kittens into a room and interact with them to start taming them and they said yes. But, the kittens have been pretty aggressive and I have no experience with ferals so I was concerned I might get hurt and/or might not make any progress with them. Do you have any advice about how to interact with feral kittens when you are first taming them? Thanks!

PS -- Bella and Mischy are beautiful and they look so sweet. Hard to believe they were feral.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

I have tamed numerous adult ferals, however they were all tamed outside and free to come/go as they pleased. This only gave me mealtimes to get them accustomed to me, so taming took months, sometimes only a few weeks and in one instance...it took years.
All of the feral kittens I have tamed were tamed in my master bathroom. They had a 'cave' to feel safe, usually a large-ish carrier with soft towels inside. I would also keep a towel over the top to cover the vent holes, leaving the cage door propped open and unable to swing closed. Litter box in the tub (drain closed!) to contain litter tracking.

My secret weapon is boneless/skinless chicken breasts crock-potted with cans of Cream of Chicken soup and a half can of milk. A little cheese and sometimes wine is added. This feeds us, too. We shred the chicken and wrap them in flour tortillas with taco/burrito fixings: sour cream, advocado, lettuce, diced tomatoes, onions, cheese and sometimes I make white rice to have with it. Anyhow, I mash up some chicken with the CofC soup mix helping to keep the mixture thick and sticking together...and I hand feed the feral kittens.

I stick some on the ends of my fingers and just reach my hand into the carrier opening. I don't go ALL of the way back to the kittens, but I do put my hand in pretty far. The usual reaction it to hiss, but they cannot resist the smell of that delicious chicken, and they begin to eat off my hand. Over time, sometimes a few days, I will be able to lure them closer to the opening of the carrier and even getting the braver ones to come out TO me. From there, I progress to canned food mashed around the edges of a plate and while they eat, I will pet and stroke them. I don't dab hesitantly or fearfully at them, I just pet them. When they stop trying to scoot away from my hand and pay more attention to eating, then they are ready to move on to the next step.

This is where I begin forcing my attention on them. I sit on the floor and grab them firmly by the scruff and place them on my lap, facing my knees. Then I hold them by the scruff and pet and rub them all over. IF they begin to relax, I'll loosen my scruff hold and ruffle the fur at their neck to 'erase' the memory of me holding them. Then I let them get off my lap if they wish. 
The goal is for them to walk, and not dart fearfully, away.
If the kitten does not relax at all, when I am done handling them I take them off my lap and set them close to the opening of the carrier and release them like it is no big deal. I don't watch them to judge their reaction, I want them only to know that I will hold them, handle them, not hurt them and I will also release them and not hold them forever. 

This progresses through more stages of intensive handling and working up to allowing me to put my head near them to kiss their shoulders, tops of head and eventually their noses. I will sit and pick them up and hold them to my chest, upright and also on their backs like a baby. That progresses to lifting them from the floor and onto taller surfaces, like the toilet lid, the bed, the counter, et cetera. Little by little I will hold them in the 'lift' for a bit longer and longer. I want them to not struggle and learn that I will lift them and I will let them go, it isn't a big deal. From there I progress to picking them up and holding them while I stand, then we progress to me holding them and walking with them. 

The last things I do with them are treating them a little roughly. Handle them quickly, a little fast, maybe not so careful but never cause them pain or drop them. I need to get them ready for the public and children to be able to handle them, so that is why I treat them casually just before they go to the center so those familiar and not-so-careful handling techniques won't be frightening for them.

Anyhow, it takes weeks to work through that progression. Younger kittens tame faster than older kittens.
I will talk to Lisa on Tuesday. Be prepared, when I saw her Thursday she told me she has fewer volunteers than the last time I fostered for her, which was 3yrs ago. There may not be anyone here able to take your two.
Heidi


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## Southerner1 (Jan 17, 2009)

Thank you for taking the time to share your tips with me. I sure wish I could try and foster these kittens, but the owner of my house doesn't like pets and would never allow it. I have 3 pets already and the owner has made it clear another pet and I'm out of the house. I will give your crock pot chicken breast, Cream of Chicken soup and a half can of milk recipe a try, take it to the vet's office and tempt the kittens with it. I don't know if I'm brave enough to use my fingers at first. Maybe I'll try a spoon. Thanks again for all your great advice and help!


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

You are certainly welcome. I'm not sure how much success you'll have with them at the vet's. It may be too chaotic with all of the activity and noise. You may be better off just offering them a tasty treat of nice food; canned wetfood or the chicken recipe I use. I understand about the land lord putting a limit on pets. That is why we bought our house, because we had 7 cats. We've had up to a dozen but we are down to 8, right now. Not including the 2 fosters. I am trying VERY hard to not add to the numbers. We've just had a cat diagnosed with a kidney problem and her care will incur some expenses in food and veterinary care.

Do you have a way of taking pictures of the two kittens and posting them so I can see how big they are and what their body language is saying? 
When is the date they will be done with the 10-day quarantine? 
Has the vet offered any solutions? 
What other options are there?


_...I'll be going to bed soon and will check replies in the AM._
h


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## Southerner1 (Jan 17, 2009)

I haven't spoken with the vet. The vet techs have been very nice and they have suggested trying to place the kittens as feral barn cats or just release them back into my neighborhood after having them spayed/neutered. The problem with that is the crawl space where they've been living in is now closed, so where would they go to stay warm? The techs say the kittens are more feral than many kittens they've seen. I don't think they've been around people at all until a few days ago. Their quarantine is over next Thursday. I've emailed my friends and family asking if they know anyone with a barn who could use cats as mousers. And, a friend is emailing all her contacts with the same question. I plan to call horse boarding facilities and stables and ask if any of them might accept feral kittens as mousers. I'll see if I can get some photographs and post them online tomorrow night.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

Thanks for replying and answering my questions. I do appreciate it.
When I speak to the FPS Director Tuesday, I'll ask her about a family to foster/tame the two and/or find out if she has barn-cat placements available for spayed/neutered feral kittens. I tried to help a new member here at CF who joined (like you) because he needed to find a solution for his cat because he was leaving for military boot camp and couldn't take her. I contacted two horse-people whom I knew were within several hours of him; one had alreay taken in two needy kittens and the other was over-run with an unhealthy colony of cats. That was where the 1st lady got her 2 needy kittens. He asked about 'dumping' her and of course, we tried to discourage that. Another member joined and posted a graphic account of what some farmers with barns do to 'dumped' cats that show up at their property. It was awful.
I will find out what I can, here. I hope your calls will be successful. It sounds like the vet office you have the kittens at may also be a good resource to finding a placement for these kittens.
I would still like to see pictures, if I may.
Heidi


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## Southerner1 (Jan 17, 2009)

I should be the one thanking you! Your guidance has been extremely helpful and I really appreciate it.

Just wanted to update you on what I found out today at the vet's office. I was told again by office staff the kittens are very feral. I said my plan for the day was to place one of kittens in a pet carrier with bedding covered by a towel and feed it chicken baby food on a spoon. They said they didn't think it was a good idea for me to try that because the kittens bite. They said that they had tried to examine the kittens yesterday, but just couldn't handle them because they're so wild. I watched the kittens for 15 - 20 minutes. One of them was face down in the litter box. The other was curled up in a ball with it's back to the front of the cage. Neither of them moved at all. I took my camera, but didn't take a photograph. Now, I wish I had. I think the description I gave gives you a good idea of what you would have seen. They are the exact size of the kittens you took in at 3-4 months, but they are solid white. It was so sad to see them in the cage like that because when I saw them in the trap on Wednesday, they seemed very healthy and active.

Based on what the vet techs have told me, I wonder about finding someone to foster and tame these feral kittens. The vet tech said that if someone did foster them, she didn't think they would ever be lap kitties which is what most people want. They would always be somewhat feral. Of course, that's just her opinion. The only other option I see for them is finding a farmer willing to let them live in their barn. I asked the vet techs about just releasing the kittens after spay/neuter. One vet tech said she's seen so many cats brought in after being attacked by coyotes or hit by cars that she didn't think just releasing them was a good idea. But, that people differ in their opinions on this. Based on your latest post, I see that just releasing them is considered a very bad option on this forum as well.

I'm going out for a while, but I'll check back later to see if you've responded. Thank you again.


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

I'm sorry; I neglected to post two of the links that I believe will be a help to you. I believe these kittens could be tamed, but I think it will take a lot of time and patience. I think you would be wise to read the links I provided, and I do hope this story has a happy ending.

I have added the links to my initial post. Good luck.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

I think I should clarify, we discouraged that young man from "dumping/abandoning" his cat to fend for herself in a strange location. Feral cats can do well when released back to their home territory, but in order for their lives to be 'easier', they should be spayed/neutered and have a place for shelter from the elements and a steady meal-time at one location. This doesn't sound like it would work releasing them back to the area they came from as access to under your home will have been blocked and you cannot feed them without incurring the wrath of your landlord.

I think they are 'hiding' all scrunched up at the vets because it is just too much sensory overload for them and everything is 'scary'. The biting concerns me. It concerns me because of the meds I take and how they have compromised my immune system. I do not think I could safely chance a cat-bite.*** I do still feel these young cats can be tamed by someone who is patient, has some skill and is dedicated, but now I really think that person cannot be me, and it makes me sad.
***_in the back of my mind, even though I had been backing away from the responsibility, I think I was still considering taking them._

Best wishes you are able to find a place for them after Thursday. I will still ask Lisa on Tuesday if she has a place/person who can take them.
Heidi


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## Southerner1 (Jan 17, 2009)

When I talk with people at the vet on Monday, I'm going to ask them under what circumstances the kittens bite. I don't know if anyone has tried gently approaching the kittens. It think they've bitten when they've been picked up to be examined, given a distemper shot, etc. But, maybe it's been under other circumstances as well. I don't know.

This all started when I saw a kitten in my heating duct system beneath my bathroom floor. Beneath the register on the floor, I could see a kitten peering up at me meowing loudly (that's something I never thought I would see). It was meowing because whenever the heat came on it would get so hot the kitten was in distress. I took the register up and found the kitten was in a metal tube about 2 and 1/2 feet long running from the heating duct system up to my bathroom floor. After I took off the register, the kitten went back down into the heating duct All night last Sunday night/Monday morning, I tried to figure out how I would going to rescue this kitten. I didn't at that time realize s/he could escape back into the crawl space. Overnight, I found a way to feed the kitten. I took a broom handle which had a hole on the end (a hole used to hang the broom on the wall). I filled that hole with canned food and lowered it to the kitten. I kept feeding him/her until he/she didn't want anymore. The kitten saw me peering down at it. It ate the food I lowered to it. I never would have guessed it would turn out to be as wild as they're describing at the vet's office.

Thank you for asking Lisa about whether she knows of a place that might accept the kittens. (My name is Lisa, too, by the way.) I guess my focus now is going to be on calling/emailing as many shelters as possible to ask about fostering and possible barn placements and also calling places where they board horses to see if anyone there is interested in the kittens as mousers.

And, Jeanie, thanks for the links. I read both web pages.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

Please ask them if they bite only when they are restrained or if they also bite when a hand comes near them.
I will be very interested to learn the answer.
h


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## Mitts & Tess (Sep 4, 2004)

Ive been working alot and not been able to get on Catforum to see your postings. I thought Id add a few thoughts from my experience of doing TNR and working with kittens brought in from the outside and our experience with vets in our area who now work with us.

12 weeks is a cut off point for us. A kitten can go one way or the other as far as feral instincts are concerned. Some where well trained by their feral mother and its deeply inbedded for survival and others there is hope. But your right at that point. It would take an experienced Trap/Neuter/Return person to advise when they _saw_ the kittens as to where these kittens are at.

I want to say this graciously ~ Vets have a knowledge base that is founded on their experience with dogs or cats. Alot of vets and vet techs dont see alot of outdoor abandoned cats or kittens being raised by their feral or semi feral or abandoned pets mother to give a qualified evaluation as to where a kitten should be worked with or returned to its colony. The vets we work with have learned from us their base of knowledge because before we started doing TNR they didnt have our type cats coming thru their practise. Weve given them information and a royal education!  Even to the point of cat malidies they dont normally see but is common in outdoor cats! I wouldnt depend too heavily on your current vets opinions.

do know that these kittens feel like theyve been transported to another planet! Unfamilar sounds, smells, bring handled by people they arent familar with. Of coarse theyd bite, hiss and cower. The kennel they are being kept in at the vet should have a towel over the front door so it is dark and safe feeling as they adjust to where they were put. They have no idea what is going on and they are terrified.

before you get these kittens back please have the vet spay/neuter/ shots/ flea treat them so they are ready for the next step in their lives. If they do go to a barn program there are ground rules you should have in place. Who ever takes them must be willing to feed them cat food and have water available. Cats cannot survive on mousing in a barn. They must be provided with a cat shelter at the barn. 50% of cats relocated do not survive so its never a good thing to do unless this is the only option. Cats must be kept in a tackroom or large kennel for a minimum of 3 weeks ~ being fed and becoming familar with the barn, smells, sounds of the new home. They need to learn this is where their source of food is to encourage them to stick around.

If there is someone in your area which would work with these kittens it will take a 24/7 devotion to bring them around and socialize them. You should try to locate a TNR group in your area to get an idea of who is available to help you decide which route to take with the kittens. They would be a huge resource and encouragement as you find your way thru this for answers for the kittens.

You sound like you have a big heart. I want to thank you for your concern and efforts in helping these little guys.


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## Southerner1 (Jan 17, 2009)

Sorry about being so late in posting. My plumbing system went out totally and with getting that fixed and all the other things I had to do, it's been a crazy day. 

I went to visit the kittens at the vet's office late today. I've never spoken with the vet, but two vet techs have been extremely nice and talked with me at length each time I've visited. I asked them if they thought the kittens would only bite if restrained or if they would bite if say someone had food on the tips of their fingers and extended the food toward them. They both laughed and said they would never feel comfortable extending their fingers toward these kittens. They thought they would bite. I asked if they felt comfortable changing the litter and putting food in their cage and they said yes, that the kittens don't charge at them. They cower in the back of the cage when they change the litter and food. Still, they keep the litter/food at the front of the cage because they are concerned about the kittens' aggression and want to get in and out of the cage quickly.

They said the kittens appear healthy. They don't see any signs of respiratory illness. They have a nice white coat. The vet's office treated them for fleas and gave them distemper shots. They have not tested them for worms, or Feline Leukemia. 

They think the kittens are both female, but they're not 100% certain because it's so hard to examine them.

The kittens were more alert today than when I visited them on Saturday. They were both cowering in the back of the cage and they did hiss at us, but at least they were looking in our direction. I got a picture of the kittens, but I don't have a media card reader on my computer so I'll have to find the cable that connects the camera and computer before I can download the picture and post it.

The kittens' cage isn't covered at the vet's office. I'm surprised they don't do this. I have no experience with feral kittens at all, but the one night they spent with me, after few minutes reading information on the Internet, I went and covered their cage.

I've sent out quite a few emails to rescue organizations in the area. Today, I got one back agreeing to place the kittens in a barn after they are spayed. They told me that when the kittens get out of quarantine to make an appointment with their vet for the spay and that they will take them to the barn after the surgery. That's all the detail I was given. Another rescue organization contacted me and asked me to give them a call to discuss options. I haven't had a chance to call them back and have no idea what options they might offer. I will give them a call tomorrow.

Mitts & Tess, thanks for sharing your opinion. It makes sense that those of us without any experience with feral kittens (including many vets and vet techs) wouldn't be able to make an accurate evaluation "as to where a kitten should be worked with or returned to its colony." To me, the kittens seem very feral, but I'm certain you're right when you say, "these kittens feel like they've been transported to another planet! Unfamilar sounds, smells, bring handled by people they arent familiar with. Of coarse theyd bite, hiss and cower." And, thanks for the ground rules for placing the kittens in a barn. Hopefully, the rescues follow these rules. I'm glad to know what they are. 

Heidi, I want you to know that you've helped me SOOOO much through the past few days. I've been really touched by your even considering in the back of your mind taking in these kittens in spite of the health problems you're dealing with. You're clearly a very loving person. If you would still ask Lisa tomorrow if she knows of a barn placement in your area, I would appreciate it. I do have the offer of the barn placement here which I am very grateful for. But, I still have to find out some things about how they are going to handle the kittens before I can turn them over to them. If this rescue organization doesn't work out for some reason (God forbid), it would helpful to have another option.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

I will absolutely ask Lisa tomorrow afternoon when I drop my two off for their spay.
You thanking us for our help (minimal as it has been) is nice, but I also feel we need to thank you, too. I feel a need to thank YOU for caring about these two ferals and trying to better their lives. It is people like you, all of us, that are able to help these 'forgotten' cats.

I think it is great news that you've had two organizations contact you back! When I was trying to find people here to help me with the ferals on my property, no one returned messages and when I reached them by phone, they all said they couldn't help me. Lisa, at For Paws Sake, was the only one who helped me. ..._however I must confess, by the time I called her number, I was already in tears because I was at the end of the proverbial rope._
Anyhow, I appreciated her help so much because she assisted me in placing more than 30 cats/kittens, I made her a kitty-quilt;









When I saw her last week, I asked her about me donating a quilt they can raffle off with tickets and the proceeds go towards For Paws Sake needs.
h


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

Well, I was hoping to have good news today, but it was no-go again. When I dropped the two fosters off Tuesday, Lisa was not there. I figured I'd catch her today when I picked up my fosters, but she had to go to the hospital this morning. She's okay, a client's dog bit her leg in the exam room and per policy, they have to get bite wounds checked at the hospital. I will send her an email, but I probably won't hear a reply from her until tomorrow or the next day.

I'm sorry, I wish I could have been more helpful.
I hope one of the organizations that contacted you will be able to place your two.
Heidi


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## Southerner1 (Jan 17, 2009)

I just wanted to post the end of this story. It has both a happy and sad ending. 

I did find an animal rescue organization in Nashville to take in both kittens. Yesterday, when the kitten's 10 day quarantine was over, I took them to an animal hospital associated with the animal rescue organization to be spayed. I dropped the kittens off and drove home. When I got home I received an email from the woman who heads the organization saying that "I need to give ****" to whatever vet's office had been boarding these kittens. She said that both kittens were severely dehydrated and one had a serious wound and was in great pain. She said that she didn't believe either kitten was nearly as feral as the vet's office had made them out to be and she thought they could be socialized and adopted out. She said that she found it hard to believe any vet would allow kittens to suffer like that. I was shocked by this email because the vet's office I boarded them at has a very good reputation. I asked the vet's office repeatedly if the kittens were healthy and they said yes, as far as they could tell, just very feral. They said that one kitten had a wound, but it looked like an old wound and they couldn't examine the wound closely because the kitten was so feral and would bite them. They never said a word about the kittens being dehydrated or thinking one of the kittens might be in pain. I'm not trained and I didn't see anything that led me to think the kittens were dehydrated or one was in pain, but shouldn't vet techs be able to tell something like that when boarding them over an eight day period?

I got an email from the animal rescue organization this morning saying that they had to euthanize the kitten with the wound. They said the kitten was just in too much pain and there was no way they could make her comfortable. The second kitten was sent to a foster home today. They said that they have a lot of hope this kitten can be socialized and adopted. 

I feel terrible that this kitten was in such intense pain the eight days it was boarded at the first vet's office. They took the kitten out of her kennel at least twice using an animal napper to give it a distemper shot and to apply Advantage Flea treatment. If it was already in great pain, I can't imagine what this must have been like for the poor thing. I am very angry at what looks like complete incompetence by the people working at this vet's office. They seemed so nice when I was dealing with them. How could they have been so clueless as to what these kittens were going through? I don't have that much experience dealing with animals, so I was relying on their judgement. Do you think I should contact the vet and let him know what I found out about the condition of these kittens? I wonder if he will even care.

At least the future looks hopeful for one of the kittens. But, I sure would feel better about things if I had been able to save them both.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

Thank you so much for letting us know about them.

I still think you DID save both of their lives, even though one had to be euthed. You saved her from being homeless, outside and having to suffer an undignified and prolonged death.

I am sad they didn't make more of an effort to examine and treat both cats. There are meds they could have given them to imobilize them and have been able to examine and treat them thoroughly. I am sure they thought they were doing what was proper, and with them mostly dealing with family pets and not being very experienced with ferals...it is easy for me to see how they could have missed these obvious signs. I bet the kittens spent all of their time huddled down to bring as little attention to themselves as possible so I doubt there was much activity for the vet and staff to notice any problems or pain, without being able to see an active kitten. Food, water and litterbox must have shown some activity, but without being able to handle them, they had no way of determining if one had a temp (infection), was dropping weight and/or dehydrated. 
I do not think I would let the vet office know. 
I wonder if they did only the minimal of what they needed to do to keep their client's pets and themselves safe because it wasn't worth any of their staff getting injured by handling these kittens belonging to no one (no one to pay?). ...and I do think they would have gotten injured because of a lack of skill in handling ferals.

I think that is the crux of the problem: The staff did not have feral-experience and had probably worked themselves up into a fear of the ferals, thus feeding into the ferals' desire for self-preservation and causing the staff to keep their distance. A cycle that was not good for the injured kitty.
No, I don't think I would tell the vet office, unless I could do so in a way that didn't come out "blaming" them. I think they just didn't have the skills to handle ferals with a domestic family-pet practice. I think it would be beneficial for them to be informed about such a serious problem they missed that resulted in the injured kitten's euthanasia, but I don't know how many other ferals they would get coming into their practice to be able to gain those skills.

You did good. The vet office did the best they could, though they certainly could have done better. One kitten is no longer suffering and the other has a great chance at a new life. YOU DID GREAT!
h


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## Mitts & Tess (Sep 4, 2004)

Im so sorry to read about what happened to these kittens at a so called professional vet office. _This is not uncommon._ Please know that you did the best you could and trusted they were being taken care of. The kittens could of been handled and treated by them if they had experience but they hid the facts from you. Im so sorry. 

The group of volunteers I work with have treated true feral cats with injuries. It takes a bit of finese and courage to get them by putting a towel over them and holding them to get their daily treatments. But it can be done. We learned as we went along what works and what doesnt. Im glad youve hook up with people who know how to handle these cats and will know where to turn to in the future. Please dont hold yourself responsible. You have done all the right things in searching for answers. When we know better we do better (maya angelou)

Im not sure that vet office would even care to know this happened to tell you the truth. There are vets I will never darken their doors after my experience with them. Maybe if you do say something they will refuse to treat this type of cat and it would save a cat from being abused which would be a silver lining. My group went thru all the vets in the area till we learned who could work with us and who were total idiots! 

Be sure and send a donation to the group which took the kittens. Im sure like the rest of us out there working with the forgotten abandoned cats and kittens they operate on a shoe string. Every donation makes a difference in the future of these cats. 100 % of the donations go towards the cats which Im sure is the case with them also.

I hope this doesnt discourage you in your kindness. These kittens wouldnt of had a prayer for survival or happiness. Even if the kitten had to be put to sleep you made his transition to his next life and humane one. You made a huge difference for them. Bless you!


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

Thank you for taking care of these babies. I'm so sorry one had to be euthanized. I'm sure that has upset you. God bless.


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## Smirkitty (Apr 19, 2008)

To quote a prior post (and my favorite poet) "When we know better, we do better".

In all fairness, vets are not trained in feral cats, and most people (vets included) understand a dog's body language and non-verbal communication much better than they do a cat's. This is why I can no longer stand to watch most animal rescue animal-cop type shows; they will give a chance to an unsocialized dog much quicker than they would an unsocialized cat, which they are more likely to euth because they don't understand. 
The vet's office did what they could. If it were me, I might be tempted to let one of the vet techs that was so nice know what happened, without implying that they had failed. 
You did a grand thing for these babies, even though one of them was PTS. 
Thank you for being such a good person.


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## Southerner1 (Jan 17, 2009)

Thanks to everyone who responded for your kinds words. It is true that a couple of nights after I found the kittens in the crawl space and took them to the vet's office, was the coldest night we've had in Nashville in many years. It got down to zero degrees. I'm glad the kittens didn't have to endure that. As bad as being in pain while at the vet's office was, I think it was less uncomfortable for the kittens than to have been in pain, in the freezing cold without food and water. And, at least, the kitten that was PTS had caring people around her when she died. Thank you for helping me to see things from this perspective.

Heidi, you're right about thinking the kittens spent all of their time huddled down except for short periods eating, in the litter box and when they were handled, so it does make sense that the vet techs actually didn't see signs of distress. I also agree with you that the staff "worked themselves up into a fear of ferals." They seemed to attribute every behavior of the kittens to their being "very feral." They were afraid of being bitten when handling them. And, they never considered there might be another explanation for the kittens behavior such as an injury or their not being well.

I haven't decided yet about whether I'll contact the vet's office to let them know what happened. If I do contact them, I think I'll send a letter to the vet tech I dealt with most often telling her that if another stray kitten/cat which seems feral comes through the practice, they need to consider that their behavior stems at least in part from their being sick or injured in some way.

Through this experience over the past couple of weeks, I've gained a new appreciation for those of you who work with abandoned/feral kittens and cats. Trying to get them healthy and find them homes under a deadline and knowing if you fail the kittens/cats may die is very stressful. I have a lot of admiration for those of you who have been working for years helping cats under these conditions. God Bless All of You! And, thank you so much for the help and support you've given me.

Lisa


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

Southerner1 said:


> ...thank you so much for the help and support you've given me.
> Lisa


We were all glad to do it, though we weren't able to actually do very much, other than help you to feel better about what you were doing, but even just having moral support can be very helpful. That is what I like best about this website, the members here at CatForum are very friendly and supportive.
I hope you stick around and tell us about your own pets in the "Meet My Kitty" forum and/or Introductions. 
Heidi


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## Mitts & Tess (Sep 4, 2004)

I was thinking of your dilima of what to say or not to say and the quote came to mind: 

_Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about the things that matter. _Reverend Dr Martin Luther King Jr.

For me its always how to say it. Most of the time we need to say it with grace so they can recieve it. If it has been life threatening abuse Ive not been gracious. That is rare. Alot of time its pure ignorance and stupidity. But a professional vet office has no excuses. I would say something with grace but very direct letting them know how upset you are. It will sink in beleive me.

I learned along time ago. Even if I know it wont change things I must speak up because it makes the person responsible to the universe for what he heard. Its up to them then what they do with it. The responsiblity is out of your hands since you spoke up and presented it in a way that could be heard so they could change things. It releases the universe to deal with them. (hope that makes sense)


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

Very well put, Merry. I'm going to save that quotation.


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