# Tiger or Roy to blame? Neither.



## Aonir (Aug 18, 2003)

Anonyomus -
Roy already stated that he knows the tiger is not to blame, and wants the animal left unharmed....the LAST thing he said before passing out..... 

I would think HE would know whether he was attacked or not, considering 
he's been raising and training these animals for 30 YEARS!!!! 

Longer than PETA has been around....and S&R have a documented reputation for how well they treat their cats.... 

PETA has to get their hands in every pie, although they arent doing any good with this particular BITCH... 

If S&R want the animals to remain unharmed, and with them, no one 
can stop them. They OWN these animals. If my dogs bit me, the law could not take them away unless I asked them to. And Roy is NOT going to file a complaint against the tiger, you can bet on it. As long as his tigers are not 
a threat to the populace, they cant be removed if Roy lives. Maybe even if he dies, I'm sure Siegfried would have a say in that, since they are half his and Roy has specifically requested that no harm come to them.... 

Instead of harassing Roy, they should be APPLAUDING on the kind, decent, ethical treatment he has always given ALL his animals. He treats those cats better then some people treat their kids.... 

These men have been KINDLY raising, training and caring for these animals for over 30 years. They DO NOT beat them, chain them, abuse them....Roy keeps them IN HIS HOUSE, they are like children to him....The reputation of S&R for the excellent 
care of their animals is both well known, and documented. His stage cats 
COULD NOT be returned to the wild, they have been raised with humans and no nothing about hunting, or living without humans. They are spoiled rotten by the loving care that S&R give them, every day....they consider S&R as part of their family, their close-knit group. You want to seperate them? You really dont care about how the cats might feel about that. Of course, you want all the Pit Bulls in the world killed too.... 

I think you should take the "Ethical" out of your title... 

I believe you're only in it for the money.... 

Also, it's now believed that the tiger was trying to HELP Roy, not hurt him. Stew on that, wont you?


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## Louse76 (Sep 27, 2003)

Aonir said:


> you want all the Pit Bulls in the world killed too....


Yes, I do! But that's because they are a threat to the populace!


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## Ioana (Jul 12, 2003)

A dog's demeanor, regardless of breed, reflects the treatment bestowed upon the animal by the owner. Some people are kind and some people aren't - therefore it would be a mistake to blame it on the dogs. From what I have read so far pitbulls are very warm-hearted and protective especially with children. To me dogs in general are a marvelous species.


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## Louse76 (Sep 27, 2003)

Unfortunately, very untrue. Every month or so we hear about attacks from pit bulls here in FL. Just the other month a girl was mauled by her own pet which was never abused, and had been around children its whole life. It seems this is almost always the case. They always say... it was just this one time... a fluke... yet it happens over and over again. There are too many children who have been killed or scarred for life. For what? For a person to have an animal to prove their masculinity. They could have had another type of dog just as strong but less aggressive.

The solution: put them all to sleep.

But back on topic. These tigers were well kept, but they're still wild animals... unfortunately it's bound to happen. Especially with all of the excitement of the shows. I'm definately glad that an audience member wasn't hurt. When some people were talking about that in college, a girl I know said she saw them in person a while back and she was afraid that one of the tigers would come and get her. Sure that sounds silly... or does it now?

I was going to say at least the tigers aren't in a position where they can harm the public... but what happened if it jumped off stage and went for the crowd? I think if the show does go on, they should set up some type of precaution for the crowd.


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## AngelZoo (Aug 24, 2003)

Aonir: I'm just a little curious as to why you did not post this on the current Roy and his tigers thread, instead of starting a new one. I'm read on peta's comments to this issue as well. 

Louse: You have got to be kidding me. I'm just going to go WAY over here as to avoid myself getting banned.


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## Aonir (Aug 18, 2003)

Pit Bulls.. Lets see.. The number one dog for dog bites is.. LABS! Hmm. Go figure that one. Pit Bulls... used by ignorant people for dog fights because their jaws are strong - something that has not yet been proven. Pits are abandoned, killed, AND punished when they fail a fight. Pits are NOT human agressive, no they are not.. Most are dog agressive I hear because they are a dominant breed. They need to be alpha in the house of pets.
Another mistake made by humans - NEVER leave a child alone with a dog. EVER. I don't care how nice that dog is, ANY dog can turn quickly. People are trying to ban breeds, (German Shepherds, Dobermans, Rottweilers, Pit Bulls, etc) because WE created them to do what? GUARD. They are guard dogs. Pit Bulls were bred to be BULL BAIT.
I suggest anyone who is against Pitt Bulls should do a little research of the cruelty to that breed. 90% of the time when people see a vicious dog they think its a pit, AND ITS NOT.


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## Louse76 (Sep 27, 2003)

Aonir said:


> Pit Bulls.. Lets see.. The number one dog for dog bites is.. LABS!
> 
> Another mistake made by humans - NEVER leave a child alone with a dog. EVER. I don't care how nice that dog is, ANY dog can turn quickly.


Lab bites... sure, but being mauled is a completely different thing.

And I completely agree on the second part, but 90% of the time it's not a Pit? Come on. Maybe where you live... If that's the truth then maybe only the Pit maulings make it into the news...

Anyone else thing that Pit owners (along with other aggressive breeds) should need to acquire a lisence and be investigated etc etc etc etc?


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## Ioana (Jul 12, 2003)

That is very well-said, Aonir. 
Here is a link just as eloquent as your relating of the problem. I hope people will learn and spread the word. The noble heart inside a dog can shine so bright if we apply the right kind of treatment to it.
Please take a minute and read out of this page: http://pbrc.net/petbull/sadreality.html


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## AngelZoo (Aug 24, 2003)

Aonir: Here here!  

Pit Bulls by nature, and by their breed standard are NOT aggressive, this is not fictual, but fact.

They are known and suppose to be more loyal and happy go lucky then even golden retreivers.

I have met 200+ some odd pitbulls and pit mixes, and never a ONE which was human or dog agressive. Always with a happy smile and wagging tail just wanting love and enjoying the wonderfull day!

However, I have met dogs of all various breeds whom have been dog or human aggressive, I work at a vet now, and with all the patients coming in, out of the ones whom have needed to be muzzled, none of them a pit or similar looking breeds. 

I was bit as a young child (not my fault at all) but the fault of stupid owners by a golden/shepard mix. My leg was almost ripped off by a dalmation as a young child as well. 2 black labs tried to kill a small jrt whom was a former client of mine while he was in my care. 

Knowlege is good, educate yourself, pit bulls are NOT a human or dog aggressive breed naturally. It's just not in them.


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

Here are the facts as stated by Daniel Ester, Ph.D and Suzzane Hetts, Ph.D, animal behaviorists:

http://www.animalbehaviorassociates.com ... s_dogs.pdf

129 of the 177 fatal dog attacks from 1979 to 1994 were made by these dogs:

Pit Bulls
Rottweilers
German Shepherds
Siberian Huskies
Alaskan Malamutes
Wolf Hybrids

The reasons for these attacks are genetics, environment, age, sex, and reproductive status.
_____________________________________________________________

Yes, we love animals. I used to breed and show dogs. But denial and love don't change statistics. Please let's stop arguing about what's already well documented and fight the bad breeding and other factors that cause mean dispositions in animals rather than each other. Any breed could be turned mean by means of deliberate breeding for that quality over a period of years. All terriers, from smallest to largest, have the strong jaw that causes the damage by the Pit Bull (Staffordshire Terrier, American style.)

As far as tigers are concerned, any person going to a circus is in danger. They are beautiful, but wild animals. In this case we know they were treated better than any of us can afford to treat our pets, but they are wild animals. Any time we go near a wild animal, there is some element of danger. The amount of danger depends on the same mixture of factors that affect dogs and cats. 

I will continue to pray for Roy's recovery.


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## AngelZoo (Aug 24, 2003)

Jeanie: Those attacks happen because some humans have chosen them to be aggressivly raised, and bred. There are seperate lines out there disassociated with all of that, much like their true breed status. Pit Bulls in this country come in LARGE numbers, because of a lot of breeding for several reasons, there are more bites reported about pit bulls because there are simply more of them, not that by nature they are more vicious, there are several bites and attacks that happen from all sorts of dogs, just much of society is "trained" to fear particular breeds more then others, and one is not as likely to report a bite from a small breed. Out of the thousands upon thousands of dogs I have met, a lot of the smaller breeds are some of the most ill mannered aggressive, and bitey animals out there, because of the way their humans chose to raise them. Too many people are under the belief that it's "Ok" for a little dog to be a terror or to bite, because it's a small animal. 


There are no stastics or professionals proving that your average full blooded pit bull coming from proper lines is more likely to attack, or to have an aggressive demenor. And that's the part that matters.

We all know what dogs get bad reps for biting, we all know that it does happen, we are not denying this, but by eliminating a breed (hey lets cause their own extinction, it's ok to do to pits and rotts but not alright for tigers). Hypocrits.

What we need is firmer laws, which WILL be enforced towards owners and breeders of any breed, specially ones which are, and will come to be, known and used for fighting and guard dogs. 

There is even the beginnings of Jindos being used for gaurd and attack dogs in the usa, taking the place as a german shepard or a rottie. Jindo's by far are not a naturally aggressive breed. These people are breedign for the wrong reasons, and that's where we need to start, to stop all of this, is punishment and follow through of bad or illegal breeders. I do not feel the general public should be allowed to breed whenever and whereever they feel like.


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

Jeanie said:


> *
> The reasons for these attacks are genetics, environment, age, sex, and reproductive status.
> _____________________________________________________________
> 
> . Please let's stop arguing about what's already well documented and fight the bad breeding and other factors that cause mean dispositions in animals rather than each other. Any breed could be turned mean by means of deliberate breeding for that quality over a period of years. *


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## faile (Sep 14, 2003)

i heard there are one or two types of breeds (i think pit bulls and dobermans, but i could be totally wrong) go nuts as they get older because although their skull stops growing, their brain doesn't. therefore it slowley drives them crazy. again- just something i've heard, i've no idea whether it's true or not.


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## AngelZoo (Aug 24, 2003)

faile: hee hee, no, pits and rotts do not turn "crazy".


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## 93SRV (Oct 27, 2003)

> The solution: put them all to sleep


As my first post, I better make this good.

I cannot comprehend that in this day and age, with all the knowledge we have, that you could acually think in this manner. 

It's disgusting and unfortunante. Please everyone else forgive me for making such a strong first post, but this topic has always bothered me. I am embarking on a year long research project on anti- Breed Specific Legislation that will hopefully prevent people with this screwed way of thinking from ever having any say in what laws are passed. 

FACT: Bite Statistics are Inaccurate and are easily manipulated

“Dog bite statistics are not really statistics, and they do not give an accurate picture of dogs that bite. Invariably the numbers will show that dogs from popular large breeds are a problem. This should be expected, because big dogs can physically do more damage if they do bite, and any popular breed has more individuals that could bite. Dogs from small breeds also bite and are capable of causing severe injury. There are several reasons why it is not possible to calculate a bite rate for a breed or to compare rates between breeds. First, the breed of the biting dog may not be accurately recorded, and mix breed dogs are commonly described as if they were purebreds. Secondly, the actual number of bites that occur in a community is not known, because it is rare for all dogs in a community to be licensed and existing licensing data is then incomplete.”
http://www.avma.org/press/dogbite/dogbite.pdf

Don't believe this? Maybe more statistics since that seems to be the only way people ever believe anything. Oh, i forgot about the front page or the evening news. :roll: 

According to The Journal of American Medical Association, over 66% of all dog related deaths are attributed to more media friendly type dogs such as the Labrador and cocker spaniel, while the other 1/3 are the pitbull, pitbull mixes, rottweilers and shepards, the group more commonly portrayed in the media as “dangerous dogs” and are most often the breeds that are banned. A Majority? I think not. 

CHIRPP 2002 Report 

Dog bites in accordance to prevalence of occurance:
#1 German Shepard 
#2 Cocker Spaniels
#3 Rottweilers 
#4 Golden Retrievers 

Fatalities were as followed in order of incidence:
#1 Labradors
#2 Staffordshire Bull Terrier
#3 German Shepherds,
#4 Bull Terriers
#5 Rottweiler
#6 American Pitbull Terrier
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/pphb-dgspsp/inju ... index.html

I am a volunteer at the SPCA and have been brought up around large dogs my whole life. all i can say is from the experiences that i've EVER had with an agressive dog, it's 99.9% because of bad ownership. 

RESPONSIBLE OWNERSHIP is the key. Not Banning or killing off a breed.


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## Bean (Mar 10, 2003)

I recently watched Bowling for Columbine, and the way pit bulls are treated on the news is sorta explained by that movie.

Fear sells in the news world, and there are key words that strike fear in common people. Some from the last year that stick in my mind are terrorism, SARS, weapons of mass destruction...

It's easier to stick with one type of fear than others, so after the first couple big "pit bull" attacks, they all dog attacks became "pit bull" attacks. I have pit bull in quotations because they offen say that but in reality most of the dog may only contain a little pit bull, or look like a breed that looks similar. Usually mastiffs, terriors, bulldogs and such are group together as pit bulls. 93srv would be better able to explain this than I.

On another note 93srv is the friend I offen refer to, the one with the Russian blue.


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

93SRV, Your link is not working. It provides another link to the AVMA. Could you find the article and give us the current, correct link? Most people are concerned about fatalities or very serious injuries. That's why we hear so much about pit bulls. I am a lover of big dogs. I find them to be more gentle than little "snippy" breeds, although there are some "Benji" types that I think are adorable, I bred and showed Collies.

When I look at the lists of fatalities I can't understand why the Chow Chow is not there, because I was bitten as a child Or, where is the beautiful red Irish Setter-- Don't the papers know that I had to stop one in mid-leap by putting my hand up and saying DOWN! ( I'm glad she believed my Alpha Dog behavior!) The truth is that the newspapers and tv are not interested that a chow bit a child, and she needed two stiches, or that I was almost attacked by an Irish setter. It's not news. Fatalities are news, and so, Pitbulls are in the news. Unethical breeders have taken advantage of the powerful jaws to satisfy the people who want the "biggest and baddest" dog they can get. The same is true of the Rotweiler and Doberman Pinscher. 

You and i know that the Golden Retriever is one of the most popular family dogs in the US. Small injuries, like my bite from the Chow, are probably common, because children pull ears and sit on dogs. Golden Retrievers are not usually bred to be attack dogs, however.

There are two opposite sides in this continuing argument. I believe the truth lies between the two extremes. Yes the fatal bites and mangling and disfiguring bites are caused mainly by the breeds that people fear, but the quality that leads to that sort of action can be bred out of the dog. Collies used to be sharp shy. (In the twenties, I believe) That was bred out of them. The same could happen to the breeds we now consider vicious.

As I urged before, we are animal lovers. Let's put the blame where it belongs-on unethical breeders, and stop denying that some breeds are now dangerous. Those who want them all destroyed become more and more defensive, as do those who love the breeds. And the fruitless argument goes on and on.

We can stop this unethical breeding by imposing jail sentences on those who continue the practice--like the couple who caused the death of the young woman in California. Charge them with attempted murder. An animal bred and trained to attack is at least as dangerous as a person with a black belt in Karate or a professional boxer. They are held to a higher standard than Mr. Average Person! Let's hold these breeders to a higher standard also--by law. The animal is innocent, but I cant take that chance. I'm still wary of Chows and other dogs with bad reputations. That could change, but it will take years. Arguing, denial, and killing the dogs aren't the answer.

(By the way, welcome! Have you introduced yourself at the Meow forum? We're nice people, really.)


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

P.S. YAY! Bean's back!


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## kittygirl04 (Jul 8, 2003)

Jeanie said:


> P.S. YAY! Bean's back!


Finally!!! We missed Moby!!!!! :)


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## Bean (Mar 10, 2003)

What a warm welcome - I had no idea I would be missed that much. A please surprise.


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## Padunk (Oct 20, 2003)

Fine post, Jeanie

I couldn't agree more.


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## Abker (Oct 28, 2003)

Hi I'm new. I came her to ask a question about cats, but I saw this thread and I feel it is an obligation of mine to reply. I'm sorta pissed off by this whole thing, but I'll try to be as polite and to the point as I can. 

I've spent years training and working with dogs. The whole "pit bulls are mean and vicous" is a huge load of bull crap. First of all, 50 years ago pitties were considered the best family dog. Just like the Lab and Golden are today. What breed do u think Petey is from the Little Rascals? He's a pure bred pit bull. Take a look at this link if u don't believe me:
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/pete.html

How about all the pictures of these mean vicous dogs attacking these poor kids: 
http://www.angelfire.com/ca2/shadytown/claire.html
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/fun/kids.html

Instead of taking time to write all this out I'm going to let the links speak for me I highly suggest, that if u are one of the mis-informed people that believe all pitties are vicous, u take a look at all these links, and read all the info, and go in with an open mind, please.
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/breedinfo.html
http://www.canismajor.com/dog/amstaff.html


Here is an excellent link....
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html

Another good one of a pittie and a cat:
http://www.udonet.com/prowicz/pets/2000ares_jerry.shtml


The point I'm trying to make is that u cannot judge a whole breed. Let's say some 43 yr old white male kills someone. Does that mean that all 43 yr old white males will kill someone eventually???? No, of course not. This is very much like what BSL is saying. BSL will not work. Use common sencse here people. Why don't we try enforcing the laws we have now? Harsher punishment for people who abuse animals. Harsh punishment for dog fighting. Making sure people get thier dogs registered with the city they live in. This can all help solve the problem without ripping dogs out of thier homes just because it's a certain breed. Here's a poem that was posted at a dog forum I'm at:

A Prayer of a Pitbull 
Spirit in the sky, who watches over all animals: It is my prayer and my request that you grant greater 
understanding, and acceptance to humans; those who love us, and those who hate us. 

That they will know how loyal we are, how brave we 
are, and how loving we are. Help them to accept us as a breed in whole and not let the few tragedies shine brighter than the many great traits that we have. 

And those who would kill me, let them know, I forgive them, even though I don't understand their hatred. And those who would beat me, let them know I still love them, even though it is not the honorable way. 

Thank you for all the strong traits that you have given me, and my breed. Help those to know that I stand for courage, strength, loyalty and bravery. And as my master already knows, let those who would come against my family know that I would surely die defending them. 

And just one last thing that I would ask, Let my master know, that if you should call me away, that I will wait patiently at those pearly gates until the one chose me, comes home.


This poem is amazingly true. I'd like to write more, and will, but for now I'd rather wait until I'm less upset.......


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## Ioana (Jul 12, 2003)

it is a beautiful, heartbreaking poem. 
You made a huge point with


> Let's say some 43 yr old white male kills someone. Does that mean that all 43 yr old white males will kill someone eventually???? No, of course not.


I am happy that there are a lot of animal lovers out there that bring out all the ressources possible to change mentalities, deconstruct prejudges


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## AngelZoo (Aug 24, 2003)

Abker: LOL! Those pictures are great.  
Soooo cute, I hope I see some pits at work today!

It's amusing, so many of our customers that come in, will walk AROUND, or just not come near, any big dogs, specially anything that looks like a pit. So ignorant. :roll: 

Me, I can't resist going over and saying high and getting licks all over my face from every pit that comes in!


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

Abker, I hope you were not referring to my post. I don't believe that either denial or "kill 'em all" is the answer. Nothing will be done to preserve the breed and protect human beings by either side! Pitbulls are NOT ALL vicious. But, portraying them with sites covered with dainty little flowery decorations is not accurate either. If both sides continue to be defensive and not face facts, the results will probably conclude with the elimination of the breed. We need to face the facts. They are not all killers; they are not all pussycats, either. 

The fourth site you listed gives a more reasonable view, one that most people could agree with:

. Pit Bulls tend to LOVE people. All people. This makes them a poor choice for a "guardian breed". Most of them are simply too friendly to protect a house against strangers. A Pit Bull that shows unprovoked human aggression (puppy play nips do NOT count) is showing BAD temperament and in most cases should be put to sleep. Such a dog should obviously NEVER be bred under any circumstances. *The breeding of dogs with bad temperaments is one of the largest problems the breed faces today and fuels the fire of breed specific legislation.
_____________________________________________________*

With all due respect, isn't that concluding statement what I just posted? Along with a plea that we avoid the prevailing polarity?
______________________________________________________


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## Aonir (Aug 18, 2003)

Hey Abker!! Welcome  LOVE the post!


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## ThePoutyPitbull (Oct 28, 2003)

faile said:


> i heard there are one or two types of breeds (i think pit bulls and dobermans, but i could be totally wrong) go nuts as they get older because although their skull stops growing, their brain doesn't. therefore it slowley drives them crazy. again- just something i've heard, i've no idea whether it's true or not.


This is a complete myth, for any breed of dog, including Pit Bulls and Dobermans.


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## ThePoutyPitbull (Oct 28, 2003)

*Abker, I hope you were not referring to my post. I don't believe that either denial or "kill 'em all" is the answer. Nothing will be done to preserve the breed and protect human beings by either side! Pitbulls are NOT ALL vicious. But, portraying them with sites covered with dainty little flowery decorations is not accurate either. *

Why should we not protray them with sites with danity little flowers? I own three Pit Bulls (2 are mixes) and I rescue/foster them sometimes as well. Jaeden my full Pit Bull is nine months old. She has her "Canine Good Neighbour" http://www.ckc.ca/judge/cgn.asp and keeping in mind she was eight months when she was tested. She was one of the youngest dogs (they have to be six months to be tested) in Canada to be tested and passed, ever. And she's a Pit Bull.

She now goes to school with me and talks to hundreds of kids at a time, all under the age of 13. Most are mostly interested in pulling her ears, rubbing their cookie scented little hands all over her, poking fingers by mistake into her eyes. And she just sits there. I have never heard her bark while awake...only when she is having doggie dreams. I'm not joking either. She has mouthed me twice, both times by mistake. And if anyone thinks that a dog, let alone a Pit Bull cannot be ashamed of themselves....you need to come over and see her after she did this. 

I have come to terms with the fact that I am second rate to kids with her, I am nothing but a leash holder when she spies kids. And even though I know that she would never hurt a child, I would never ever take a chance and leave her alone with them. I would never leave her alone with someone I did not know, someone I did know could handle a bad situation or someone under the age of 16.


*If both sides continue to be defensive and not face facts, the results will probably conclude with the elimination of the breed. We need to face the facts. They are not all killers; they are not all pussycats, either.*

It is extremely hard and sometimes painful to not be defensive. You love your cat right? So much so you are online talking with others that love their cats as well, right? Well think about how much you love your cat, and then think about how much it would hurt you if someone labelled your cat, that they had never met or refuse to give a chance too. A killer? How would you feel? How would you reply? How would you react?

I will tell you how it makes me feel and I am sure I am not alone in how I feel. It hurts. ALOT! It has made me cry a few times. I have had people glare at me and my dogs, move across the street when we are walking, yell at me, swear and tell me they hope my dogs die, someone even tried to steal my dog on Xmas eve!! and not for good intentions. 

Sometime people just want to tell you all the misinformation they think that they know about Pit Bulls. Like a few weeks ago someone said to me "Don't ever look your dog in the eye, I heard that makes Pit Bulls attack, always without fail!". So I did and boy was I sorry..I got a tongue in the eye. Not fun. 

I am never rude or anything but kind with all these people, although sometimes I do want to rip into them...because it hurts. And they have no idea most of the time what the heck they are talking about. To me insulting my dogs, would be like insulting my kids, if I had any!

And you're right they are not all pussycats either. But lets look at the facts here for a minute...you can show me all the so-called bite stats in the world. And it won't prove anything to me at least, because...they only show ONE side. They don't have the stats on how many dogs were included in total, and how many were loving household pets, and so on. They ONLY state how many have bitten someone. There are thousands and thousands of great loving house pet Pit Bulls in the USA alone. But do you ever hear about them? Once in a while you might, but that does NOT mean that they are not out there. They just are not as news worthy as an attack. 

And something else about so-called Pit Bull attacks, I cannot tell you how many times I have read the headline "Killer Pit Bull Attack", then read the story to find out the dog was of another breed. And yes it does sound like Im pulling your leg but I am not! Another problem with media covering these "attacks" is most of the time no one on sight even knows what a Pit Bulls really is. A Pit Bull is not 140lbs, or even 80lbs...Pit Bulls are normally and accepted between 30-65lbs. It's just as of lately that backyard breeders have been breeding in other breeds, like mastiffs to add size and sometimes (and this happens more then we would like to think) HUMAN AGGRESSION.

Ohhh..that brings me to another point. Just because Pit Bulls are prone to ANIMAL AGGRESSION does NOT mean that they will have HUMAN AGGRESSION. They are two totally different types of aggression, and if one is present it does not mean it will _lead_ to other. However they can both be present in the same dog, but they are not connected nor are they related. They simply are not the same thing.

All except my current rescue is non animal aggressive. In fact I own two cats of my own, and have three feral/homeless cats that I feed and take of, and of course I love them all. And I would never place them in danger, ie. owning a dog I knew I could not trust them around. But even though they get along, I still make sure when I am not home that the cats are safe in their own space and the dogs in theirs. 

Prevention is key. Not everyone should or can own a Pit Bull, thankfully! And there are a lot of people who do own them, that should not. Dogs do not bite to maul or kill without some previous warning or sign. The thing is a lot of owners simple ignore, are not knowledgable or experinced enough to notice them. 

Pit Bulls are not waking up one day, thinking to themselves "The sun is shining, the birds are singing...I think I will maul someone today!". It's more like...The dog was not properly socalized, maybe when it was a puppy the owner thought it was ok to let the puppy growl or snarl when you went to take a toy away, maybe they even without knowing it praised the dog in dog's eyes for doing so. Maybe the dog grew up living on the couch, and then the owner no longer wanted the dog up there. And so when told to get down the dog growled, the owner backed off thinking the dog is just "grumpy". The dog has now learned that being aggressive gets him/her their way. The next time the dog is told to do something and it does not want too, the dog will growl. And maybe that won't be enough this time, so the dog snaps at the owner. Again the owner ignores it...the dog again learns that its ok. See where I am going with this?

Pit Bulls are not just "snapping". I am not worried what so ever about my dogs snapping or even growling at me. I am the boss, they have been properly socalized and they are well trained. All but one has the "Good Canine Neighbour"! And at nine months old, Jaeden is being to be training to be a therapy dog. 

I have owned all sorts of different breeds, some I would never own again to be honest, because of aggression problems. But Pit Bulls are not one of them. And if you think that I was always a lover or supporter of the breed, I was not. I was afraid of them, I always said "I would NEVER own one of THOSE dogs!" But now I own three, and my house would not be a home without a least two....and that alone should tell you something about their charms!

Plus they are the funniest breed you could ever ask for. And how could you not love this face?










That's my nine month old baby, Jaeden



















Jaeden with her best friend my 5 year old nephew, Jakob.










Im just showing off now..










These two look like "killers" hey?  










Jaeden and my cat Apollo...who rules in this house? That was the dogs bed!










Here's a great site with honest and the most true to the real Pit Bull that you can find...

http://www.realpitbull.com/


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## ThePoutyPitbull (Oct 28, 2003)

*Unfortunately, very untrue. Every month or so we hear about attacks from pit bulls here in FL. Just the other month a girl was mauled by her own pet which was never abused, and had been around children its whole life. It seems this is almost always the case. They always say... it was just this one time... a fluke... yet it happens over and over again. There are too many children who have been killed or scarred for life. For what? For a person to have an animal to prove their masculinity. They could have had another type of dog just as strong but less aggressive.

The solution: put them all to sleep.*

How do you know the dog had never been abused? Sometimes even close family members, people living in the HOUSE do not even know. It's not something people are usually proud of and do around crowds or even other people. A dog does not need to be abused to attack, people seem to think you have to do something out right cruel to make a dog attack. This is not the case! Lack of socalization and training are not "cruel" but they are terribly unkind to your dog and the people who are around or near your dog. The dogs you read about might have been around children all their lives, sure. But in what situation? On a chain? Stuck in a kennel 24/7? With no contact? That's hardly the smartest, safest or kindest way to treat a dog or any animal. 

Yes some of the attacks can be blamed on bad breeding, but not all.

Put them all to sleep? Why should my innocent dogs be killed?? That hardly seems fair.


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

I'm sorry that my attempts to make peace have failed, and seem to have bred even more polarity. It is the dogs who will suffer.

My own dog weighs 90 pounds and is 28 inches at the shoulder. I raised and showed collies for ten years. Do I not qualify as a lover of dogs? I have no more to say. Just as Mulder had posted in his office. "The truth is out there." Nobody believed him. I'll conclude by saying there is truth on both sides, if you could only meet in the middle and listen to each other respectfully. But neither side seems to want to believe that.


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## ThePoutyPitbull (Oct 28, 2003)

I want to listen to everyone with complete respect. I am sorry if I came off a little strong, though I don't think I really did. I was only expressing my side of it. But I certainly did not want to offend, so for that I am sorry!


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## Abker (Oct 28, 2003)

Pouty excellent posts.  U brought up several good points that I failed to mention, thank u.  



> I'm sorry that my attempts to make peace have failed, and seem to have bred even more polarity. It is the dogs who will suffer.
> 
> My own dog weighs 90 pounds and is 28 inches at the shoulder. I raised and showed collies for ten years. Do I not qualify as a lover of dogs? I have no more to say. Just as Mulder had posted in his office. "The truth is out there." Nobody believed him. I'll conclude by saying there is truth on both sides, if you could only meet in the middle and listen to each other respectfully. But neither side seems to want to believe that.


 I do not understand what u mean. We have been polite and peacful, but how are we supposed to agree on something this contriversial(sp?) when our opinions differ so greatly? I don't see how we can ever agree on this topic. :? 



> Let's put the blame where it belongs-on unethical breeders, and stop denying that some breeds are now dangerous.


 This is what worried me about u're post. This is what is so untrue. The BREED is not dangerous. For now I have nothing more to say, we've made the points we can and now it's u're job to really think about it.


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## catman (Oct 12, 2002)

i think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this topic folks. everyone has a strong intelligent opinion on this issue lets leave it at that.


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## Aonir (Aug 18, 2003)

I'm sorry catman, I didn't mean to start this


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## Abker (Oct 28, 2003)

Aonir, this was in no way u're fault.


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## catman (Oct 12, 2002)

Aonir said:


> I'm sorry catman, I didn't mean to start this


no problem at all Aonir, you did nothing wrong. 

there’s nothing wrong with a little discussion  we just hit a dead end with this topic. each side will not convince the other that they are right.


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## AngelZoo (Aug 24, 2003)

I think something important here, which has thus far not been mentioned, is the fact that these are dogs, they are ANIMALS. 

They are not stuffed animals, they are not robots. It does not matter the breed, each dog and animal needs to be treated with care and respect, or yes, things are bound to happen. A lot of people loose site of this. 

I wish for all the nay sayers to be able to have a good experience with a pit and other such "feared" breeds some day. Not to say I told you so, but so that you can finally see what you have been missing out on.

I don't think anyone stepped out of line in their posts here, but I do know we can be sensitive to things other people say. 

Good day!


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## Bean (Mar 10, 2003)

If anyone was confused about anything here, I think Jeanie meant more that ALL dogs can have bad temperment, and can be dangerous. Not just pit bulls.

I hate to even think of putting an animal to sleep, but if an animal has a bad temperment where it would possibly harm other people or animals it's a tough call. And how exactly can you differentiate bad temperment from a dog that perhaps has an extreme urge to protect it's owners?


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## Abker (Oct 28, 2003)

I found this poem and I wanted to share it with u all. 

Here I am, 
Here is ther place. 
And there's the table 
Where they wipe out my race. 



What is it that people 
Have against me? 
Why do they do this? 
Please just let me free. 



Millions were before me, 
And many more will come soon. 
Why do they always take us 
To the dark, damp room? 



Nobody wants us 
And that is not right. 
So what if our first use 
Included dog fights. 



This isn't fair to me. 
I don't know what I did wrong. 
The murder of Innocents 
has gone on too long. 



Here comes the needle, 
And even though I pull, 
This shelter along with many 
has killed another innocent Pit Bull. 





Everyday, thousands of Pit Bulls who are perfectly capable of getting good homes are euthanized just because the shelter doesn't allow the breed to be adopted out.


And if I misunderstood anyone, then I'm sorry, but through writing things can often be taken the wrong way.


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## Ioana (Jul 12, 2003)

I didn't know that pitbulls were not let for adoption. It is yet another sad fact. 
We all had a lot to learn from everything that has been posted here.


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## Abker (Oct 28, 2003)

> I didn't know that pitbulls were not let for adoption. It is yet another sad fact.


 In some city's they are, but not all. I'm glad u've learned something new, that's what we're here for.


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