# Once best friends, now fighting terribly- bit long.



## JPerryman73 (Jun 12, 2006)

I have two siamese, ages 9 (male) and 5 (female.) They have been very close and playfully affectionate since the day I brought the female home five years ago, though the male has certainly been the dominant one in their relationship. I had to take him to the vet three days ago for an emergency overnight surgery, and now that I've brought him home, not only will the female not have anything to do with him, she's actually frightened of him and has been in hiding for two days. She hisses at the slightest provocation and jumps at every sound, movement. He has been aggressive (maybe playful more than anything) towards her since his return and now I'm wondering if things will ever return to normal. All **** breaks loose in the house every now and then when he finds her and wants to say "hi." Last night, she was so freaked she actually became incontinent (a first.) Anyone experience this between their cats, and any helpful suggestions? Do I need to start a "safe room" again and re-introduce the two? Seems silly, but I'm desperate.


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## Lisa 216 (Oct 25, 2004)

First of all, welcome to the forum  

The most likely cause for the problem is that the cat who has been to the vet smells like the vet instead of the way he used to. Here's what I do when this happens at my house:

Separate the cats for the better part of a day into rooms where they will feel safe.

Put a drop of vanilla extract (yes, the kind you use to make cookies) on the backs of their necks. This will give them the same smell.

When you bring them back together, do it over food. Serve them their favorite food or treat together so the encounter will be positive.

Make sure to keep an eye on them for a while afterward. And if you see them start to get aggressive, hiss, etc., talk to them calmly. Often, this is enough to stop my cats and make them move on. If the people around them get excited, the fighting always seems to escalate.

If this doesn't work, you may have to go the reintroduction route. 

Hopefully, some other folks will have additional advice for you. Best of luck and keep us posted. :wink:


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## JPerryman73 (Jun 12, 2006)

The vanilla is a great idea. I'm sure the male smells funny, and he's now on a different (medicated) diet to boot, but I can still do a kitty treat peace offering after dousing them in vanilla, and see how that goes.


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

Yes, she pretty much thinks he's a different cat because he doesn't smell the same as he did before. Work with them as suggested, it should calm down in a couple days. In addition, you can try a combined play session with a laser pointer and fishing pole with a feather type toy...something interactive for all 3 of you.


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## JPerryman73 (Jun 12, 2006)

*update*

Well, tried the vanilla, and I can get the male to interact, but she just watches him as if he's a dog, almost... like he'll turn and attack her at any minute. She's so nervous at this point I actually have to escort her to the food bowl and stand watch before she'll eat. She sleeps in the closet. She's always had an anxiety disorder, but it seems to be out of hand right now. Instead of getting better, the situation has actually gotten worse over the past 3 days. I'm seriously considering giving her a bath tonight (oh, the torture!) just to give her something else to pre-occupy her mind for a few hours, and see if it "re-sets" her senses. Otherwise, I'll be looking to the vet for some help this week.


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## Cearbhaill (Dec 28, 2005)

Put a clean sock over your hand and pet the girl for a really long time, then pet the male with the sock that is now covered with her scent. Then go back and pet her with some of his scent. Might help.


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## JPerryman73 (Jun 12, 2006)

*Divorce proceedings for cats?*

Forgive this post, it's early and I've been up dealing with cat drama again this morning. Thanks for all of your advice. I really wish it would work, but these cats are so stubborn. It's been over a week now, and the situation isn't much better. The female cat (Tempest) has resorted to finding hiding places to sleep, and comes out under the cover of darkness to eat and use the litter box. The male cat (Noah) can't help but consider this a hide-and-seek game. He doesn't seem to understand why she is so upset, but if she's willing to hiss and run, he's willing to chase her for fun. 

Of course, this continues to be traumatic for Tempest. And to be honest, for me. I think I'm having a harder time than either of them. I really want the old Tempest back... she used to sleep with us, and interact with us. Now If I want to pet her, I have to find her first, and make sure that I don't give away her hiding spot. I'm prepared to set up a safe room for her now, but the idea of a life behind closed doors doesn't seem like much of a life for her at all. I'm at the end of my rope here... feel just like I did when my parents got a divorce, to be honest. And well, the pregnancy hormones aren't helping me either. I'm going to schedule a vet appointment for her as soon as I can afford to, to see if she's got a medical reason for what's going on in her brain. Unfortunately, Noah's emergency surgery (the reason this all started) put us out about $700 so my veterinary funds are strapped. Thanks for listening


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## Lisa 216 (Oct 25, 2004)

How frustrating. I have dealt with this same situation as well. The running and hissing of one cat gets the other one going. :roll: 

I never did ask you -- are both cats desexed?

You may need to give them each some time away from each other each day to allow Tempest some time to enjoy the house and be herself again. Always bring them back together over a meal and lots of positive reinforcement. When you see a potential situation brewing, talk to them calmly and gently redirect them. If they fight, separate them immediately for several hours so they can calm down.

Another thing you can try to do is look for situations that trigger the male's aggression. For example, my Pepper gets very riled up in the early evening when there are bugs at the windows, and then she would go after Snickers. Now I have to make sure the windows are shut before bugs become trapped in the screens, and I keep a closer eye on her at this time of day.

This is the course I have taken with my cats, and I don't have to separate them very often now (maybe one or twice a month). 

It's a pain, I know! We all have lives to lead and can't micromanage our cats. But if you can get through this rough patch, hopefully with some time and effort you can get them to peacefully coexist again.


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

Wow, I've never heard of a relationship disintegrate like this over a vet visit. It does sound as if you need to separate them for a week or two and start a re-introduction process. 

You also might try Feliway (the electronic diffusers, not the spray) to calm her down. The other thing is are you sure she's feeling OK? Maybe she has something medical going on. Also, it is possible that he bit her in one of their earlier encounters? I had a similar situation last year where 2 of my crew got in a fight (over another cat outside), Maggie was bit and I didn't know it. Things went back to normal after the fight, but the wound healed over and then abcessed underneath about 3 weeks later. We had several days of off behavior and more skirmishes before I discovered the abcess. And then, she obviously remembered that he was the cause of her pain and she hated him even more. Took full 2 week separation and another week of re-introduction before things calmed down...and another 3-4 weeks before things were completely back to normal. 

Good luck and keep us posted....


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## JPerryman73 (Jun 12, 2006)

*An update*

We're on week three, and the situation is still tense. to answer a PP's question, they are both desexed, indoor cats. I created a safe room for Tempest, and she loved it. She has never been as affectionate as Noah, so she was in heaven... her own cat box, food, and bed? She wouldn't even come out unless I encouraged her. Over the last weekend, I thought things were getting better. She was out in the open, with him in the same room. At one point, she even came up to sniff him again, but of course quickly hissed and ran away. 

He's not been that agressive with her, other than through unspoken looks. I have seen his face when he looks at her, and it's very dominant, almost a "you will submit to my desires" sort of look. I am about to believe that in the one night he was gone, she decided she was mad as **** and wasn't going to submit to him anymore. She even went so far as to push him away from the food bowl, and that has never happened in the years I've had them, though they used to share a bowl freely. Almost as if there's some sort of dramatic women's lib thing going on now. 

At any rate, the safe room can't last forever, I'm turning it into a nursery and we have lots of family coming to stay. Things went a bit sour again after the weekend, but my husband was home, so it wasn't because they were alone. Perhaps just a phase. I purposely let them interact two nights ago, figuring that they would be more likely to sleep than fight, and left her saferoom door open. Of course, they started a growl-hiss-chase at 4 am that woke me up for good. Last night went better... no hissing, but I couldn't find her this morning, and from the looks of it, neither could he. She is crafty at hiding that way.

I am taking her to the vet next week to make sure there isn't something going on with her. I also have added a squirt bottle to the action to keep the fighting at a minimum... at least this way they'll retreat to their corners to clean up. And honestly, he's not even touching her. He may have in the beginning, as a pp noted... but I have seen no scratches, bites, and she is not "hurting" anywhere that I can see. He simply gives her a look, she hisses, runs off, and he chases. She is so much faster, lighter and more agile, she can escape without injury. But oh... the drama!

So that's the update. I do miss the "old" Tempest, who would play fetch, join me in the bathroom for our morning ritual, and would pile up with Noah on my bed at night. I hope she comes back, but it's obviously not going to be easy. Noah, ironically, has healed very well from his surgery. His energy is back, his personality is back, and he just gives me "what the ****" looks when she reacts the way she does. It's so odd....

THanks for the advice and listening...


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## Lisa 216 (Oct 25, 2004)

Thanks for the updates.

I know the look you mean -- my Pepper, who weighs 6 lbs. soaking wet, looks at my Snickers (a 17 lb. giant :lol: ) that way. I can tell when she is about to pounce on him.

As I said earlier, I have been watching my two for those looks and other triggers (neighbor's dogs in the yard, bugs at the window, etc.). When I see "the look" in Pepper's eyes, I start talking gently to her and start petting Snickers. She won't bother him if I'm there. 

I can't intervene all the time, but it has lessened the incidents. Plus, Snickers has gotten used to her antics, and doesn't run and hiss much anymore.

Have you tried just letting them peek through the door at each other? You could try feeding them on opposite sides of the door so they can smell each other, then give them a little peak while they're busy with the food.


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