# Once a feral...?



## bluemilk

Will a feral cat,if taken in,ever lose his wild ways and become more...DOMESTIC? Or will he always have some 'woods' in him?


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## shan841

I have heard that the older they get the harder it is to "tame" them...so if the cat is less than 2 you have a good chance of them being somewhat friendly with a lot of time and hard work. Even feral kittens take time and patience to socialize..and if the cat is 5, 6 or older....not likely. Are you thinking about taking one in?


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## Myulchee

Even though that seems to be the conventional wisdom, that they can't be tamed past a certain age, it probably depends on a lot of factors: 
-the cat's personality
-the cat's experiences with humans and the humans that are around it
-the new environment (enough space, some plants, relative peace and quiet, etc.) 
-how much time and energy you can put into it while not pushing the cat's limits

I've had a feral cat for almost two months, and so far it's more wild than ever.
Then again, the vets did a number on her and she's really scared of humans now. 

At best, they'll probably always be a bit skittish and standoffish, but maybe others here have some success stories for you?

Good luck!


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## Lineth

*The proper age to tame a cat is*

from 0 to 3 months this according to the Feral Cat Coalition..


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## Ritzpg

Short answer: it really depends upon the personality/genetic make up/DNA of the cat. It can be done, but it can take four weeks to four years. It is rewarding, and it changed my life.
Long answer: My friend rescued four kittens, approximately 4 to 6 months old, the day after Christmas 2010 after a 20 inch snow storm. They and the mother cat were abandoned at my condo building when the in-humane person moved. She socialized them; I helped at little. Prior to this time I'd never been around cats. Taz and Ritz became socialized relatively quickly, in about a month. Ripley and Riley took almost six months. I adopted Ritz and she is the love of my life. She learned how trust, I learned how to be trustworthy.
I take care of a feral/stray/abandoned cat colony in front of my condo building. In January 2011 my friend and I moved four (eventually five total) cats into a spare room my friend converted to a Cattery. The purpose was to socialize them and adopt them out to Forever Homes. Two or three "turned" fairly quickly; we have placed four cats into Forever Homes. We have been working with "Mystique" for well over a year. Only recently have we been able to pet her briefly, and that is only because same friend introduced her two large DOGS to Mystique--love at first sight. She absolutely adores the dogs, headbuts them, lets the dogs groom her, and will even jump into bed with my friend just to be near the dogs. Mystique is still a 'work in progress'; prior to the introduction of the dogs we thought we'd have to return her to the colony.


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## Ritzpg

PS: the cats were generally under a year old but certainly older than six months; Mystique was pregnant when we trapped her. Princess Leia went into her first heat after we trapped her (we couldn't get her spayed immediately).


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## Carmel

It really depends on the cat, they're all different. Are you sure it's always been a feral, for instance? Some feral cats can tame quickly, others take ages, others don't tame at all. Even ones from the same litter/background will act differently to people. I think usually a once truly feral (no prior human contact) will always remain at least a little skittish, unless tamed at a very young age. 

Blaze was caught around 6 months... he didn't move off the couch for a few weeks, was very nervous for the first year, always has hid from strangers, and afraid of garbage bags and garbage truck noises. Also, while this may not be related, it likely is, he sprays around the house and occasionally attacks at random. Past that, he's an extremely loving boy, very vocal and even plays hide and seek!

Meanwhile, Blacky had prior human contact, she was spayed and had unreadable numbers in her ear, no idea on her age at the time we started feeding her, she had been on the streets for some time, she had poor teeth and wasn't a kitten. She was semi-feral (meaning she'd had previous contact with people)... but she'd reverted to a feral state and was afraid of people. She was outside, and with persistent effort while feeding her, she eventually let me get close enough to pet her a year later. It was like a switch was flipped; I hadn't hurt her on contact, and she allowed me to get somewhat close to her from then on. With more and more work, and slow progress, she eventually became a great extremely well adjusted - although independent - cat. She sleeps on my bed at night curled up on top of me, sleeps on my lap at the computer, follows us on walks... doesn't allow people outdoors to approach her unless it's us, but is not afraid of strangers. She is perfectly happy at the vets! And she isn't afraid of a vacuum unless it's in the room she's in, she'll just saunter out of the room. 10 years ago, just shutting her inside the house (once she allowed me to pick her up) caused her to freak out and jump out a broken window! She's come a long way, for the first few years she'd bite and hiss if we scratched her tummy but eventually she even allowed us to do that, it just took a lot of trust to build.


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## lyle

bluemilk said:


> Will a feral cat,if taken in,ever lose his wild ways and become more...DOMESTIC? Or will he always have some 'woods' in him?


If you're lucky. Domestic is cool, but it's the wild what makes 'em special.


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## LaurulFeatherCat

It is generally true just about all feral cats can learn to be domestic pets. It depends on how hard their life as a feral was whether they will ever be close and loving pets; but in my opinion ALL ferals have the potential at at least live amically with humans. 
My Apache was a three month old feral when my dad trapped her and gave her to me. Now at 16 years old, she is my heartcat, rarely far from me, and has been since she was 18 months old. It takes much patience and time and I could not touch her for the first six months I had her without her slashing and biting me severely. Now here she is, in my lap constantly and asleep by my side.
Some severely abused cats will never trust humans, but can learn to live beside humans as friends on an individually accepted basis. A friend of mine has one cat that was kept in a very small cat carrier for over a year before being rescued by the ASPCA and rehomed. The little cat had a broken foreleg, tail broken in multiple places, broken ribs and two skull fractures. Apparently when the little cat was let out of its cage, the father of the house used to kick it across the room whenever it was close to him... Lugh is now a very timid cat when it comes to humans and trusts only my friend. During the day, no human lays eyes on him, but every night Lugh (pronounced Lew) creeps into Sue's room and into her bed where he sleeps with her every night, purring and happy. If he hears movement in the hallway, proof! he is gone and hiding in Sue's closet until the sounds outside her door go away.
Truely unmanagable ferals are actually few and far between and live in areas where people are not commonly in contact with the feral colonies. My one uncle is a dairy farmer and monitors a TNR colony that lives in the State forest lands next to his farm. The only people these cats see are the TNR devotees that come and trap the new cats for spay and neuter and they are and can be very viscious. They definitely are not pet material. But other places, where cats live close to humans, almost all those cats could be tamed and live with humans if someone put the time effort and money into doing it.
Last summer, my BFF and I rescued an abandoned pet off the streets. Her name is Rosie and she was kept in the house of her former owner until she became about six months old. Then the owner got tired of keeping up with the litter pan and starting letting Rose and her brother, Jesse, out to "do their business". The boro trapped Jesse and neutered him in their TNR program and marked him with a tipped ear. But Rosie did not frequent the TNR dry food station that attracted Jesse and so remained unspayed. So, of course, she got pregnant. I was sitting on my friend's porch and noticed this really, really skinny black tiger with cinnamon tortie markings in the year next door. I asked Kim about her and she told me it was Rosie, her neighbor's abandoned cat. I asked to borrow two cans of food and went over and offered Rosie some food. When Rosie was gulping down her food I noticed she was lactating and told Kim she had a litter of kittens and Rosie was starving to death. Kim immediately took over feeding rose several times a day and I agreed to take Rosie and whatever kittens she had in so I could tame them and find them homes. When the kittens turned about six weeks old, they started crawling out from under the garage where Rosie had her nest. Kim caught the babies, then bent down and picked up Rosie and put them in her downstairs bathroom. Kim kept the kittens and Rosie until the kittens weaned and then they came to my house and I set them up in the spare bedroom where I finished taming Rosie and started on socializing the two kittens. It is slow and it is very fulfilling watching the kittens go from skittish, scared babies to trusting and affectionate pets over the past year. Taking the three of them for spaying set back to trust needed for socialization for a while, but they have recovered. The problem is I am in love with them now and I cannot give them up
Hoist on my own petard!


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## tghsmith

both of my ferals were trapped at around 1 year old, tammi took a hard 2 years, smokey decided that safe place to sleep and food every day was a good deal and went to just about lap cat in three months...


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## Straysmommy

I've been feeding and caring for a colony for a year and a half. Some of the cats that used to run in panic if I came a few feet from them now seek to sit close to me. Some that used to freak out if I was around, now rub against my legs all the time and won't put up a big fight if I stroke their head for a second. They've all made progress in that sense, from whichever point they were. Those that were most friendly and allowed a quick touch at the beginning, nowadays are lap cats of mine.


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## bluemilk

Monitoring a colony sounds like quite an experience-for both the cats and humans involved! Actually I WASN'T thinking of taking 1 in,but...hmm!


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## Straysmommy

LFC, that was a very enjoyable read, thanks for sharing!


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## bluemilk

Yes,LFC thanks for sharing your experiences! How's Apache doing? (love that name!)


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## Straysmommy

And how's the former feral doing, bluemilk?

I should share a story too... I often tell the story of Hilda, whom I named so because she reminded me of my aunt Hilda, who constantly had something to object to everything. (Actually, the cat's full name is Hildegaard von B' now, B being our neighborhood name, and it's inspired by Hildegaard von Bingen, whose music I love and I passed by Bingen on a trip in the Rhine, which I loved too). 

When I first moved into this building 4 years ago, Hilda wouldn't let anyone sleep at night, that's how ferocious and noisy she was. Neighbors feared her (I feared her too) because she could bite and scratch for no reason. I didn't have cats or know the first thing about cats back then, except that they are scary, grey things that jump out of the garbage room in buildings and make disposing of garbage a scary experience. 

When I started feeding the strays downstairs at the superintendent's insistance, this cat started rubbing on me one day and I stopped her immediately, told her that was off-limits. "I give you cats food, but touching me is off-limits!" 

Soon, however, she taught me that a plan is something you have until a cat decides otherwise. She continued rubbing on me, but wouldn't let me stroke her head for more than a second. She was the terror of the street, the poor colony cats preferred to go hungry than come eat the yummy food I set down for them each night, so I asked for help from someone who knows a lot about cats. 

That's how Hilda got TNR'ed immediately and I was told that she was in heat at the time of the spaying, and that she was probably an abandoned cat who was simply terrified. I started giving her preferential treatment at feeding times, and when I adopted Princess off the park bench (2 strays fit on a bench for meals, and the ones who had claimed those 2 spaces for their own are nowadays house cats of mine, so there was room left), Hilda took her place, which gave her access to spending hours next to me, and one day, she timidly, tentatively made towards my lap. 

I also trained her to respond to her name, especially when she got scared. She learned to respond to my call and come to me for refuge and reassurance instead of attacking when she feared a dog, cat, human. Nowadays she spends life between the porch of the building, my lap and frolicking around the garden, and when something makes her feel unsure, she runs to me and sits on my lap or hides between my legs. There hasn't been any noise, biting or scratching from her in about a year. She's a sweet lap cat with occasional feisty behaviors. She has a mommy, me, even though I can't take her upstairs to my home, and spends more time with me, playing, being brushed and petted, than my own house cats.


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## Myulchee

^Straysmommy, that's a great story about Hildy. I agree that she was probably once a house cat that was just scared. So you taking care of her helped her out a lot as it may have helped fill a void in her life.

Last year, had been feeding a 'feral' cat that we believe was once a house cat too, as it was already fixed when we took it in for TNR...so we postponed the release and are trying to keep her (Myulchee).

The difference between Myulchee and Hildy is that Myulchee is so skittish and would never sit on the same bench as us, instead choosing a bench about 10 feet away. We think she was maybe abandoned or ran away at an early age due to abusive or neglectful owners, since she really doesn't seek out closeness or affection with humans...almost like she's never had it, so has little idea how to react.


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## Straysmommy

That's great that you're keeping her! Mind you, it took Hilda about 10 months to start sitting on the bench. How long has Myulchee known you?


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## Myulchee

^
Myulchee has known me for about a year now, but it's been a turbulent year! Didn't meet her very often and it was a bit hot and cold: one day semi friendly and the next time really skittish. It was always like walking on eggshells around her. But there were signs of warmth, like when she'd follow me to the outside of the dorm and hang around outside. Or she'd follow me down the path to the dorm and from bench to bench, always staying one bench away. 

And unfortunately after we trapped her, the vets treated her horribly and she just hides in a closet now all day long. We didn't help much as we tried to pet her and pushed her limits a bit too much, until she panicked and burrowed under the linoleum flooring, where she stays probably 18 hours a day or more, whenever we go onto her balcony especially. 

So now we're wondering how long she'll play the hiding game...it's been two months now...
But it's great to hear success stories like yours and we're hoping Myulchee will be similar one day.


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## Straysmommy

There's a stray who always sits on the other bench. She wants to be near me, but not that near, hehe. After about 16 months, she started occasionally sitting on the same bench as me, and even eating next to me sometimes. It took a very long time of heavy investment in building that trust, lots of yummy foods (which cats somehow interpret as you being good to them), strolls together in the area gardens, rescuing her from a storage room in the next-door building where she'd gotten trapped for days, loving on her sister, laying down hidden comfy pillows and old clothes for them to sleep on behind the bush in the winter, treats, talks, playing with Da Bird, seeing me being kind to all cats, seeing other cats let me touch them, etc.

A cat in hiding, I always think they're doing a lot more than hiding. They're assessing the place, the new territory, studying it, learning the map of what is and what isn't safe for them, and studying the people. Cats don't do anything gradually. They one day, out of the blue, when you least expect it, make a jump of faith. And usually it happens to me that they make it when I've kind of given up on gaining that trust. I think our relaxing has a positive influence on them. I just pay very close attention to every detail in their behavior and start doing more of what works and less of what doesn't work or hinders.


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## Straysmommy

Lady Nikita, who came into my apt 4 months ago and won't leave, is only now learning to ask for what she wants. Sometimes we take things for granted, such as that a cat will make their needs/desires heard somehow, but strays (same as abandoned children) have to learn to ask. First they have to learn that if they ask, things will be given. This is simple to us who grew up in families, but not for those who always had only themselves to depend on. I reward Niki by each time she makes a sound to ask for something, trying very hard to discover what she wants and giving it to her. I think that when they learn to communicate with us, and internalize the cause-effect of asking for what they need, it's an important step in trust, as they feel more in control, more confident of their relationship with us. Things make more sense to them, they know more what to expect. 

Prince very often will meow in a questioning, lamenting tone, because he learned during a long year of repetition, that I'll come to him immediately to ask what's wrong, I'll try to find what's bothering him, so he does it just when he's bored to get my attention for a few minutes and maybe a treat or something new and fun such as me emptying a top shelf in the closet for him to climb to. 

Just like humans, in order to trust, cats need to see regular patterns, things that repeat always the same. Your cat, unfortunately, started trusting and then became confused and reticent because of the veterinary ordeal. It's not too late at all to start again because the cat knows very well that YOU didn't do her any harm at any stage. She's just confused, and I wonder if it's more the new living situation than the ordeal. Give her all the time in the world, she's better off hiding in your house than roaming the streets anyway, and do more of what you observe helps.


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## JazznMurphy

We began by feeding three kittens three years ago. A female who remained feral and the two boys that now live with us. The female had a litter of four kittens last summer and we've kept them fed with an igloo to shelter them from the weather. All but one will let us sit on the porch and pet them. The other female scatters as soon as she sees a human in her vicinity. 

We've since moved the most social female on our enclosed deck for the time being, until we decide where she's going to go. She likes the boys, won't have anything to do with the girls, and vice versa. She doesn't run and hide when she sees us and actually lets us put her on our laps. I would venture to say that she's going to make a good pet down the road, though she may be a little more independent than the others. 

We'll get her spayed in a couple of weeks. She had kittens about 3 weeks ago; sadly, the kittens were attacked and killed. We're just waiting for her milk to dry up, then she'll get spayed. That's also when we moved her onto our porch. I do think she'll make a nice house cat. She has a great little personality.

I think, with a lot of work and a whole lot more patience, a feral can eventually be socialized. I've heard males are easier than females. Is that true?


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## Mitts & Tess

Go up to the sticky at the top of the feral cat section of Cat Forum and read the articles and videos mentioned in the How to Tame Feral Kittens and Cats.

Urban cat League has the best Utube videos on socializing feral kittens ive come across. Kitty Boot Camp by Heidi is the best ive seen on how to socialize adult feral cats.


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## Myulchee

Straysmommy said:


> ..
> 
> A cat in hiding, I always think they're doing a lot more than hiding. They're assessing the place, the new territory, studying it, learning the map of what is and what isn't safe for them, and studying the people. Cats don't do anything gradually. They one day, out of the blue, when you least expect it, make a jump of faith. And usually it happens to me that they make it when I've kind of given up on gaining that trust. I think our relaxing has a positive influence on them. I just pay very close attention to every detail in their behavior and start doing more of what works and less of what doesn't work or hinders.


I hope this is true for Myulchee: She's in hide mode but I hope it's not forever. We've given up trying to pet her under the flooring, and I don't talk to her or call her as much as before, just trying to give her lots of space. On another thread others mentioned that I should ignore her for now as we pushed her too much too fast. 

She comes out at night from the balcony and into the house. I leave her food inside near my bed, as well as treats in random places for her to find, and also so I can access if she comes out of hiding. She patrols the apartment and eats the snacks and then goes back to her hiding spot. Her treats vary, but include tuna, chicken slices, sausage slices dipped in tuna oil, or dollops of real cream (her absolute favorite...it always made her go crazy even when she lived outside; if she smelled the cream she'd follow me with what I called her 'happy feet' as she'd get a spring in her step in anticipation). 

Her balcony is an absolute jungle. It's only about 4' x 16' including the closet, so it's small but one side is all windows with a view of trees and the street outside. Inside are some baby trees and wall to wall plants, a cat tower, litter box, and mini pond with bamboo in it. Her closet has her fleece lined house (with a heating pad under it for winter) ... but it's getting warmer so she now just burrows under some linoleum flooring at the bottom of the closet. Partly to hide and partly because it may be cooler and quieter under there (we live next to a busy street so there are almost always car sounds pouring in). 

So, in some ways I think she's never had it so good, but she acts tortured and traumatized so maybe she has a different perspective. I'm hoping she's slightly happy as I'm not thrilled about holding an animal if it doesn't want to be there. Just want what's best for her and it's hard to know. 

I've had cats all my life but this is my first feral cat.

If only I could convince her it's worse outside with all the REAL dangers.

I guess some feral cats turn quicker than others. This one is still a work in progress...


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## Mitts & Tess

I have a former feral. He spen two year keeping his distance from me. My own cat befriended him during recovery from his TNR. Then took us 4 to years of gradually pushing his limits. 

One day he understood we were tring to help him when treating him for a recent injury and infection. The rest is history. Hes the most loving mellow trusting cat I have. Im sure at one time he had been someones cat that was dumped and he turned feral to survive.

I used a lot of the technics talked about in Kitty boot camp article.


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## LaurulFeatherCat

For those who asked, Apache Cat got her name because she went "crazy like an indian" when I tried to introduce her to the cats in the catroom and I had to catch her in a blanket to remove her from the room. My Dad had called her Patch; I just turned that into Apache. Apache is the cat in my picture. She is doing OK but getting really skinny. She does have borderline hyperthryroid and also has liver problems. It is really going to be hard on me when she finally passes.

I have also been enjoying everyone's stories about their cats.


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## JazzieJay

Wow!!! I just love this thead!!!! I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this but I really need help please!! I would be grateful for any support or advice! I did post on the introduction thread but am hoping that I can find someone who can just let me know if Im on the right track here...I have only had Zanna for nearly a week. My home is small and she is using the cat box and eating. I got her from a family farm where she was running with a large colonie. I was supposed to get a younger kitten just weaned from its mother and I wasn't concerned about the fact that it was in a colony because my aunt has been feeding them and she could pick it up and cuddle it with no problem. We had to leave early that morning and it was cold and raining and when she arrived to deliver my kitten she informed me that it wasn't the kitten that she originally offered but another kitten of about 3 months old. She is so desperate to find good homes for the cat and told me Zanna was her favourite. She was able to pick her up to put in the box and I took her back with me.

The trip was 3 hours long and very traumatic for her. I know that with her change in enviornment its hectic for any cat. She is very vocal and if I call her she calls back. Yesterday I came home and she was lying on the drying board and didn't move but just watched me. I could see that she was tense and scared. I have never approached her or tried to corner her. That was the first time that I saw her whole body. She is very vocal at night and calls out alot - the sound breaks my heart! I have noticed that she is waiting less time to come out to eat after I get into bed. If I lie on my stomach and use a torch shining just to the side of her she doesn't try to run away but just sits quietly. I can see that her coat is shiny and her eyes are clear.

She is eating a little less - I feed her dry and soft food but I am assuming its because she isnt so active and has got over the stage of scoffing her food??? Thier food on the farm wasnt anything near this.

I got a link off the internet that said that you should like past them and blink slowly then pretend to clean yourself. I have worked with horses extensively my whole life and have developed the skills and understanding of sussing out a horse and working with them according to thier body language etc. Its a relfex now for me and Im frustrated because I have no idea how to read her body language. I can see she is anxious by her tense body yesterday but I am the type of person who wants to know as much as possible about "becoming" a cat around your cat.

I have looked on the internet and alot of the info is conflicting and doesnt make sense. I have a radio on, move around my home in a non-threatening manner and never try to pressure her. 

I remember as a child finding a kitten on the street and we took him home and for the life of me I cant remember how we tamed him but he got tame. In fact, if I remember correctly my mother threatening telling me to stop bringing strays home. I was about 7 years old and cant remember so view myself as a first cat owner.

Can anyone tell me if her answering me is good? If she calls out I answer - is tha good? Should I try lying on my side and reaching my hand out? I will give her all the time she needs but I have no idea the stages or "tricks" for her as an individual. Are there any signs where I can up the level of contact?


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## Mitts & Tess

Zanna said:


> Wow!!! I just love this thead!!!! I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this but I really need help please!! I would be grateful for any support or advice! I did post on the introduction thread but am hoping that I can find someone who can just let me know if Im on the right track here...I have only had Zanna for nearly a week. My home is small and she is using the cat box and eating. I got her from a family farm where she was running with a large colonie. I was supposed to get a younger kitten just weaned from its mother and I wasn't concerned about the fact that it was in a colony because my aunt has been feeding them and she could pick it up and cuddle it with no problem. We had to leave early that morning and it was cold and raining and when she arrived to deliver my kitten she informed me that it wasn't the kitten that she originally offered but another kitten of about 3 months old. She is so desperate to find good homes for the cat and told me Zanna was her favourite. She was able to pick her up to put in the box and I took her back with me.
> 
> The trip was 3 hours long and very traumatic for her. I know that with her change in enviornment its hectic for any cat. She is very vocal and if I call her she calls back. Yesterday I came home and she was lying on the drying board and didn't move but just watched me. I could see that she was tense and scared. I have never approached her or tried to corner her. That was the first time that I saw her whole body. She is very vocal at night and calls out alot - the sound breaks my heart! I have noticed that she is waiting less time to come out to eat after I get into bed. If I lie on my stomach and use a torch shining just to the side of her she doesn't try to run away but just sits quietly. I can see that her coat is shiny and her eyes are clear.
> 
> She is eating a little less - I feed her dry and soft food but I am assuming its because she isnt so active and has got over the stage of scoffing her food??? Thier food on the farm wasnt anything near this.
> 
> I got a link off the internet that said that you should like past them and blink slowly then pretend to clean yourself. I have worked with horses extensively my whole life and have developed the skills and understanding of sussing out a horse and working with them according to thier body language etc. Its a relfex now for me and Im frustrated because I have no idea how to read her body language. I can see she is anxious by her tense body yesterday but I am the type of person who wants to know as much as possible about "becoming" a cat around your cat.
> 
> I have looked on the internet and alot of the info is conflicting and doesnt make sense. I have a radio on, move around my home in a non-threatening manner and never try to pressure her.
> 
> I remember as a child finding a kitten on the street and we took him home and for the life of me I cant remember how we tamed him but he got tame. In fact, if I remember correctly my mother threatening telling me to stop bringing strays home. I was about 7 years old and cant remember so view myself as a first cat owner.
> 
> Can anyone tell me if her answering me is good? If she calls out I answer - is tha good? Should I try lying on my side and reaching my hand out? I will give her all the time she needs but I have no idea the stages or "tricks" for her as an individual. Are there any signs where I can up the level of contact?


Try reading thru these threads from the feral cat section of cat forum.

Cat Forum : Cat Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Kitty Cat Boot Camp

and 





 




 




 
*Kitty Boot Camp* has a lot of tips. You can go to the feral cat section to ask more questions as you go along. Mostly people who work with feral cats frequent there and can have solutions for your dilemmas!

Your new kitten sounds wonderful. Plus what a great person you are for giving this new kitten a wonderful future. I hope your Aunt will TNR the cats she is caring for at her farm. You could help her with that. It’s a satisfying effort to help feral cats. They are the most over looked animals in the rescue arena that need our help. I hope this helps you. I would love to track your progress with your new kitten.


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## JazzieJay

Thank you so much for everyones support!!!! I will go and check out the Kitty Boot Camp now. Mitts and Tess - will keep you posted. Thanks again!!!!


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## Straysmommy

Poor kitten doesn't know where she's landed, it's not her territory, her family is not there, and she doesn't know if you're friend or foe. I'd be behaving the same way. Giver her time and reassurance, she'll relax. She's studying it all now.


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## Mitts & Tess

You might want to consider getting her a buddy to be with. Most cats love to have companions esp when were not there to be with them 24/7


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## JazzieJay

Straysmommy - shame, she is very nervous! Any advice on how to reassure her and bring her out of her comfort zone so that she sees me as a friend?


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## JazzieJay

Mitts & Tess - I never thought of getting another kitten...would there be a chance of the other kitten taking on the nervous behaviour of Zana?


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## JazzieJay

That Kitty Boot Camp is really interesting and helpful! I suggest it to anyone who is learning how to bond with a feral cat. I have taken her advice and blocked any furniture that she can crawl under accept a higher chest of draws that is narrow enough for me to interact with her. Thank you so much for the link and info!!!! Yay!!! I feel better already because I can at least do something I know will benefit and not harm Zanna


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## Straysmommy

I adopted 3 adult strays not long ago, so my life is what you're going through now.  I learn as I go... I just try many things and do more of what works and less of what doesn't. I don't know about young kittens, though, only adults.

I think she needs a mommy, not a friend. So _reliable_ would be the key word here.

I think the most important at this initial stage is for her to find her own choice of a "home base", i.e. a place she chooses herself as her safe place from which to venture at her own pace and desire into the rest of the house. Being alone in the big wide house without anyone she knows is very scary (the 3 cats I adopted had been "mine" in the garden downstairs for months so I was already their mommy), and even so they needed their own safe place. I think I would give her treats in many places in the house until she finds a place she sticks to. I find that my cats won't try out a new place unless they're forced (by circumstance) to be in it the first time.

I think I would then let her be, let her watch me going around doing my chores, let her hear me talk and sing often, let her get used to the house from that safe looking point. Try to avoid as much as possible sudden noises, sudden movements, guests...

Enjoy this stage, because I think a lot sooner than you think she will be all over you forever.


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## Mitts & Tess

Zanna said:


> Mitts & Tess - I never thought of getting another kitten...would there be a chance of the other kitten taking on the nervous behaviour of Zana?


 
Get a kitten that is totally socialized. When I get kittens in they are handled a lot, played with, around other people, and familiar with the sounds of a house. 

When they go to their new home for the first few days they might be a bit overwhelmed but trust me that doesn’t last. Then you have the joy of crazy kitten behavior. Usually the shyer kitten watches the new kitten's confidence and realizes things are safe.

Sometimes an older Tom cat is a great surrogate parent. My tuxy is that way. He loves kittens and takes them under "his wing" and teaches them the ropes, sleeps with them, grooms them, plays with them, disciplines them.

Either way, kitten or older tom, it’s a win win.


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## JazzieJay

Straymommy and Mitts and Tess...you have both changed somebodie's life tonight! I have only been on the forum for 24 hours and it has been life changing!!!!

I wish that I had of videoed Zanna before tonight so you could see how scared she was, I wish I had of been able to video the events that took place this evening...

After blocking up the furniture I re-read the kitty boot camp carefully over and over again. I then lay on my side and spent time just talking to her. She didnt move and I tried to put some treats near her but she hissed and lashed out at me. She then moved and ran and jumped on the counter near the sink. This is where I could of wrecked it all!!!! I made my decision and with confidence and slow movements I took hold of her when she looked away. She didnt hiss or lash out at me but was nervous and rigid. Thank goodness I held her because she had a tick on her ear!!!! yuk!!! I pulled it off and sat down stroking her....I stroked her for quite a while and the next minute she began to pur. I have just been through one of the most traumatic times of my life and when I carried on stroking and talking I relaxed my hold on her. 

I dont think anyone will believe me when I say that she stood on my lap, looked up at me and that was it!!!! All the emotions of the past few months just came flooding out. The more I touched her the more she wanted to be touched. She wriggled, headbutted my hand and rolled over to get touched. It was the most amazing feeling to have an animal respond to you like that! I have loved animals all my life but have never felt so loved by a creature before. I was never a cat person but when she lifted her head to lick my nose I was sold!!!!

When I got up she got nervous again and has taken cover and will leave her to be for now. She was never in a family environment and never indoors. The only interaction she had was when she was fed but my aunt is such a kind, caring person that she never gave the ferals reason to fear.

I just cant wait to get a photo on the forum to show off my lil gal - shucks, I better make sure she is not a he!!!

Is it possible for a feral to behave like this? I can with a clear conscience say that she never had alot of contact but was never made to be fearful and even though in a colony, my aunt is calm and loving.

I think its time for me to find out how I can get a vet up to that remote part of the province so they can be spayed and neutered...its the least I can do to show how grateful I am that Zanna came into my life.


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## Straysmommy

That's such great news! Told you, she really wants a mommy.  

I've found that some ferals can be very friendly and behave like socialized, because of all the human contact they've had with their feeders from an early age. My cats were born feral and yet they're COOOOONSTANTLY on me. That's why I said make sure you enjoy the still aloof stage, LOL


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## JazzieJay

Straysmommy said:


> That's such great news! Told you, she really wants a mommy.
> 
> I've found that some ferals can be very friendly and behave like socialized, because of all the human contact they've had with their feeders from an early age. My cats were born feral and yet they're COOOOONSTANTLY on me. That's why I said make sure you enjoy the still aloof stage, LOL


You were spot on!!!!! Yay!!!! Once I move and my shape changes she reverts back to her feral state. I have uncovered the bottom of the bed because I can still get her out and into the living room so at least she has a "safe" place to be. I will go through the threads and see what info I can pick up on where she can sleep and what kind of bed I must get her and what is the best things to have for her. M and T suggested that cool toy so will look out for it. She is too adorable.

I must admit though that my decision to hold her could of been detrimental and Im determined to read up more of thier behaviour etc. so that I know in the future how to read her. Last night I put her next to her food and she walked round it and made some funny noises - it sounded like she was talking. Short sharp noises????? Im so happy I got her - she is just too precious!!! Once she is more settled I will take her to the vet.


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## Straysmommy

I think most of us have found that our cats tend to choose their own sleeping places, often leaving expensive beds unused, but I couldn't resist buying at least one bed. Fortunately, they're using it nowadays, but it went unused for a long time.

The things I've found to be essential purchases are DaBird wand, Litter Lifter scoop, a small slicker brush.

I wouldn't grab her by force or take her out of her safe place, but you've done it and she didn't seem upset by it...


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## Arianwen

M ex-ferals have always come to be lovely pets but (and it's a big BUT) they don't tend to become universally tame. Sweeping generalisation but mine have tended to bond with individuals while running a mile from anyone else. The older they are, the more difficult it is on average and I have found that all of them crave to go out sometimes. They also tend to have strong hunting instincts.


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## Straysmommy

Yes, I wanted to say that too - adults tend to bond with one mummy and no one else. But I don't know about kittens rescued so young. 

Two of my cats need at least 1 hour daily downstairs. The 3rd one seems relieved not to have anything to do with the streets anymore. She's an extremely scared cat.


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## JazzieJay

I can see that Zanna still has a long way to go before she has settled. I do have visitors but Im the only one who has contact with her due to the fact that I dont want to stress her and let other people touch her right now - is that right? She still is hiding but when I move the bed she no longer runs for the next hide away but goes into my bathroom where I can stroke her and then pick her up. I put her in the bed with me early this morning and she jumped back onto it after eating and I was able to stroke her.

I have a basket for her as a bed and have it available for her if she wants to use it. I live far from a petshop but will get those goodies asap.


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## Mitts & Tess

I watched the videos again and was reminded how food helps beak down the barriors and fear factors. One of my most effective ways of getting a cat or kitten use to me is sitting near his food dish at meal times. My kitty crack has been baby food ham offered on my finger. 

I was so thrilled to hear of your progress. You definitely have the intuitive sence of how to help your new kitten. Keep up the good work. Keep trying the different tips. Keep us posted.


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## JazzieJay

Mitts & Tess said:


> I watched the videos again and was reminded how food helps beak down the barriors and fear factors. One of my most effective ways of getting a cat or kitten use to me is sitting near his food dish at meal times. My kitty crack has been baby food ham offered on my finger.
> 
> I was so thrilled to hear of your progress. You definitely have the intuitive sence of how to help your new kitten. Keep up the good work. Keep trying the different tips. Keep us posted.


Thanks so much!!!! All the support I have got has helped so much with Zanna!!!! Please could someone advise me. I will look through the threads but dont want to post on this thread in case it classifies as going off the topic. You mentioned food and Im not happy with my feeding routine with Zanna. Will go and check the threads before asking or posting another thread if it is off topic. She is still nervous - too be expected but getting tamer by the day!!!


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## librarychick

This is going to be one doozy of a response, so bear with me  I'll answer each question in the order you asked them, Zanna.



Zanna said:


> Can anyone tell me if her answering me is good? If she calls out I answer - is tha good? Should I try lying on my side and reaching my hand out? I will give her all the time she needs but I have no idea the stages or "tricks" for her as an individual. Are there any signs where I can up the level of contact?


The poor baby is lonely! She's crying for her family that she left at the farm. I think you should croon back at her in a gentle calm voice. Sing softly, or just give her words of comfort. If she's answering back it is sort of a good thing. Answering softly will help her bond to the sound of your voice, something I've found endlessly helpful with my own kitties.



Zanna said:


> Straysmommy - shame, she is very nervous! Any advice on how to reassure her and bring her out of her comfort zone so that she sees me as a friend?


TAKE IT SLOW! I can't say that enough, or give it enough emphasis. More to come on that in a bit.



Zanna said:


> Mitts & Tess - I never thought of getting another kitten...would there be a chance of the other kitten taking on the nervous behaviour of Zana?


Yes and no...the first thing to know is how old is Zanna, that has a huge effect on whether another kitten would help or hinder. (Sorry if you answered this and I missed it!) If she's under 4 months then not right now. The first step is to bond her to you which should go quickly at her age if you do it right.

If she's over 4 months then I vote YES! See if you can adopt an older (1 year or so, or a really friendly cat that's older) as a role model, and to sop up all the attention you can't give Zanna.

If you can't get another cat then no matter how old she is you'll have to practice some extreme self control as far as how much attention you're giving Zanna. Too much will actually make her worse, not enough and she'll never improve. It's very hard not to pick up a new cat and snuggle them, but that's exactly what you'll have to do. You NEED to force yourself to move at her speed.

Again, more to follow on this in a bit.



Zanna said:


> This is where I could of wrecked it all!!!! I made my decision and with confidence and slow movements I took hold of her when she looked away. She didnt hiss or lash out at me but was nervous and rigid. Thank goodness I held her because she had a tick on her ear!!!! yuk!!! I pulled it off and sat down stroking her....I stroked her for quite a while and the next minute she began to pur. I have just been through one of the most traumatic times of my life and when I carried on stroking and talking I relaxed my hold on her.
> 
> Is it possible for a feral to behave like this? I can with a clear conscience say that she never had alot of contact but was never made to be fearful and even though in a colony, my aunt is calm and loving.
> 
> I think its time for me to find out how I can get a vet up to that remote part of the province so they can be spayed and neutered...its the least I can do to show how grateful I am that Zanna came into my life.


Ok, I cropped this a bit so you know what parts of the post I'm referring too.

You're right when you said you could have ruined it! my response and suggestion depend on her age, again, so I'll wait and see how old she is before saying too much.

However, a caution. When you mentioned that she "...was nervous and rigid." That's not cat language for 'this is ok', that's cat language for 'OMG the monster's about to eat me! I'm frozen in fear!'. So even if she then settled a bit, she still had a moment of terror...

The reason age matter is because kittens have such a short memory that they'll forget this sort of thing the moment they start to like it (like when she started purring). Adult cats might start pourring, but the next time you reach for them watch OUT!



Zanna said:


> I can see that Zanna still has a long way to go before she has settled. I do have visitors but Im the only one who has contact with her due to the fact that I dont want to stress her and let other people touch her right now - is that right? She still is hiding but when I move the bed she no longer runs for the next hide away but goes into my bathroom where I can stroke her and then pick her up. I put her in the bed with me early this morning and she jumped back onto it after eating and I was able to stroke her.
> 
> I have a basket for her as a bed and have it available for her if she wants to use it. I live far from a petshop but will get those goodies asap.


It sounds like she's warming up to you quickly, YAY! You're right that you should be the only one, for right now. When you can enter her room without her doing more than crouching (as opposed to running for cover) you can add one more person as long as they can follow directions.

The new person (NP from now on) has to not look at her....AT ALL! They have to be calm, move slowly, and sit down as far away from her as possible, not facing right at her. (ie; sitting on the floor with their side or back facing Zanna) They shouldn't speak at all until Zanna has come to you, and then it should be in a very soft and quiet voice. Speaking slowly is a great idea as well.

When she's more comfortable with that person, try another person seperately, following the same rules. Gradually introduce her to more people, one at a time. If/when she eventually walks straight up to one new person and asks for petting you can try two at a time, but go really slow!



Zanna said:


> Thanks so much!!!! All the support I have got has helped so much with Zanna!!!! Please could someone advise me. I will look through the threads but dont want to post on this thread in case it classifies as going off the topic. You mentioned food and Im not happy with my feeding routine with Zanna. Will go and check the threads before asking or posting another thread if it is off topic. She is still nervous - too be expected but getting tamer by the day!!!


When I had feral kittens I was taming I had a trick. Dry food (grain free of course!) was down all the time, since kittens need almost constant access to food, but wet food was for when I was there only. Same with toys, they had a few always, but the best toys (wands/lasers) were only there when I was.

In their little kitten brains this links you with good things. Which is awesome. So do it! Put the food down, then sit, with your side to her (catching on to the theme yet ) and do something like reading out loud.

Reading to new pets, especially ferals, is perfect! Your eyes are on a book, your voice is moderated, and they are getting used to you being there.

For cats there are three main things that make them uncomfortable. Generally speaking, for cats you don't know...not in specific, some cats do like one or all of these things. My Muffin is an example of a really odd cat so I'll use him as the example of an opposite cat.

1. Eye contact.
Cats HATE eye contact with strangers. In the cat world direct eye contact is a challenge, so by looking straight at them you're being about as rude as you can be. The human equivalent is walking straight up to someone, and standing in their personal space.
When Jitzu and I met if you made eye contact you were risking your eyes...literally. She would go for the face if she felt threatened. She used to share at me for hours and hours, waiting to see if I was watching her. Now she still doesn't like staring, but neither do I! She's learned eye contact usually comes with treats and petting (which she has learned to enjoy...most days.)
Like I said, there are some exceptions. If you make direct eye contact with Muffin he starts purring his very loudest and purr-marches right up to you for snuggles and pets...he LOVES eye contact, but that's partially because I've taught him from a very young age it's a good thing. (Yeah, I did do that on purpose.)

2. Pointing your body right at them, head on.
Again, very rude. When strange cat's meet to show they are friendly they usually approach from the side, or if they start out head on they'll sort of curve around eachother to avoid a head-on collision. Walking straight towards a cat you don't know is like staring down a stranger as you aggressively walk towards them on the sidewalk. Very unnerving.
Jitzu has always hated this. It makes her feel trapped, hunted, and extremely uncomfortable. If we have people over who don't know her I always put her up on something, so she feels more equal and more comfortable. If she's on the ground and someone goes directly for her they're likely to get bloddy toes, even now. I think that's fair, TBH. Everyone who comes to our home gets a 'Jitzu warning'.
Again, Muffin loves this. He knows it means you're likely to pet/cuddle him. This was also deliberately taught to some extent.

3. Talking directly to them.
Talking directly to a strange cat is a combination of the above two steps, really. In our culture looking at someone, facing them directly, and talking to them is considered the basis of good manners. For cats it's not.
Think of when cat's make noise at each other; before fights, when in heat/around a female in heat, mum with kits. Two of those are cats who are strangers. Consider yourself a stranger (at least at first). In cat language noise usually means conflict, so avoid speaking directly to them.
Jitzu used to hate being spoken to. Now she comes running for my voice, and watches people having conversations happily. She still doesn't enjoy most people speaking directly to her, but she tolerates it.
Muffin...loves being spoken to. It causes drooling, happy flops onto the floor, excessive purring, and gentle face-pats if it's my boyfriend ('daddy') or myself.

If Zanna is under 4 months it is possible that she learns to tolerate, or even enjoy, some of these things. She'll likely be somewhere between Jitzu-now and Muffin. Be prepared for that. She'll prbably always be best with you, not always a bad thing as long as you realize that and are prepared for people to ask why you "bother to keep such a mean cat?" Yeah, many people have said some variation of that to me on many seperate occasions. My response? "I don't care if she likes YOU. She's MY cat, she likes ME."

So, a perfect approach to a cat you don't know would be to:

Approach from their side, without focusing directly on them. Looking around or just past them works as well, watch their body language for cues.

Kneel down (so you're not a huge scary giant) with your side to them, and let them come to you.

If you have the option to do it just ignore the cat entirely. THIS is the height of kitty manners for strangers. It tells them that you aren't a threat, and that you aren't worried they'll be a threat, so you can coexist peacefully.

If you doubt me try ignoring the next cat you meet at a friends house. ESPECIALLY if the cat "doesn't like people", you'll be a magnet. It works the vast majority of the time.

Of course if the kitty is bonded to you, or you know they are super friendly (Muffin will *literally* throw himself at your feet, purring and kneading away...obviously overtly friendly to anyone with eyes/ears...silly boy) then the rules can be discarded to some extent.

OOOOOooook...well, THAT was long.  It's a good start on socializing your kitty.


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