# UTI: Needle draw Vs. Clean Catch?



## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

The last couple of days, I've noticed little piddles in three cat beds!
So I've been keeping a close eye on everyone...
I saw who it is today! 
So I called my vet and asked if they do the needle draw directly from the bladder...
They said they can, but recommend the clean catch method, because if there's blood in the urine, they don't know if it was already in the bladder or if it came from being stuck with the needle...

So tomorrow morning I'm getting the little plastic beads to put in a small, clean litter box and hope that Snickerdoodle can give me a decent sample...
Thank Heavens, I only live about a mile from my regular Vet!

I'm just wondering if this makes sense? :what:
So many people here say how important it is to get a sterile 
sample...


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## NebraskaCat (Jan 15, 2013)

I agree with what you're saying ... that is, I'm told in this forum to do the needle sample, but my vet recommends a catch sample. <shrugs>

However, I have no luck at home, so I take the cat to the vet and they do the catch over the course of a day.


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## TabbCatt (Mar 26, 2014)

Hi 10cats-
It seems the "free catch" method you're describing won't be sterile obviously, so your vet probably isn't looking to find the causing organism. Maybe she's checking on Snickerdoodle's pH level or other chemical analysis in the urine? I'm not positive, though.
Most vets usually go with the cystocentesis, or "needle thru the bladder" route for urine samples. They usually do a standard UA, and if they find a high WBC count, may do a C&S (culture & sensitivity) test to identify the proper antibiotic needed to treat the causing organism(s). 

Maybe this site would help:
Urinalysis | VCA Animal Hospitals
If not, I'd check with your vet tomorrow.

Hope it's a simple fix & Snickerdoodle is otherwise fine!


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Thanks Nebraska Cat!
I thought about leaving Snickers at the vets...
She's a very needy love bug who is a scaridy cat, I'm afraid all she'd do, is hold everything!
So...I'll probably have much better luck with her at home...in her case!
(I hope)


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## TabbCatt (Mar 26, 2014)

Oops, I meant "clean catch" there, not "free catch", I guess. Didn't really know you could do that with kitties, lol. I hope you have gloves! :?


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

TC, 
Thanks! Great site! I bookmarked it!

What I thought was interesting was what my vet said about the fact, that they wouldn't be able to tell if there was blood in the urine, if it was already present or from the needle puncturing the bladder when they put it in...
Which does kind of make sense...
But I would think, that somehow, they could test for it being really fresh blood Vs. blood that had already been in the urine...???

Thats why I'm so curious...

Oh, and the vet said the cat would have to have a full bladder.
Put this under...
The things that make you go...hmmmm??


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## TabbCatt (Mar 26, 2014)

I guess you'd be collecting the sample after a long nap, or early morning then? Don't know if Snickerdoodle will be cooperative, though? I'd probably give him/her a soupy meal beforehand! ;-)
Keep us posted!


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

This is Snickerdoodles! 
My little, scared, needy Love Bug Girl!


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## TabbCatt (Mar 26, 2014)

Oh, she is sooooo cute! How many long haired calicos _do _you have? Lol. Not your avatar, it seems.
Really hope it's nothing serious, well wishes and thoughts for her!


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## spirite (Jul 31, 2012)

Aww, what a cutie she is, and what a beautiful coat! She has such big eyes - she already looks scared, as if she heard the word "vet."

I hope all goes well tomorrow, and that you manage to get a sample. I've never tried that before. I always wondered how I was supposed to get a urine sample at home...


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Snickers is my Velcro kitty! 
She's actually considered a Torbie, because she has the tabby stripes! Miss Peaches is my avatar picture, she is a dilute calico, 
and I have a "traditional calico" white, black and orange!, Precious, who is short haired!


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## TabbCatt (Mar 26, 2014)

3 calicos, cool! I've wanted a dilute calico myself, but...eh, maybe in the future, who knows? It's probably best to let the cat pick me, though, lol.  

Any success with the "clean catch" today? And how is the velcro today? Extra sticky?


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## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

My trick for getting a good sample was to syringe-feed the kitty some water, then stick them in a kennel for an hour. Chances are they'll have a nice full bladder for the vet.

As far as the method goes, how my vet explained it to me was like this: a clean catch sample is step one - usually to determine it is in fact and infection. If the basic drugs don't handle the infection THEN they'd do a drawn sample to culture for a more exact read on what antibiotic to use...but my vet also puts them completely under for the needle draw so she usually prefers the less traumatic/expensive version first anyways.

Fingers crossed one course of treatment will have her all fixed up!


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

No luck yet 
So Snickers is still in the bathroom...
When I went to the vet much earlier this morning to get the 'beads' to put in a clean litter box...
I did come back to a fresh poo...on my bathroom counter! 
I am going to take that to the vet to, it had a bit of blood in it....

I keep telling her, all she has to do is pee, and then she can come back 
out....so far she's not listening! 

Librarychick, That's a Great idea!
I've got a bigger syringe that I can use to get some extra water in her!
She's got two more hours before my vet closes...


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Well, the vet is closed...still no pee...
I tried a new covered litter box and all she wanted to do was hide in it...
Vet told me, if I do get a sample, to put it in the fridge...
I'm stressing now, 
I don't want to leave her in there all night...
I can't put anything soft for her to curl up on, because she might pee on it instead...
I wish she'd go pee...
This is adding more stress for her, since she doesn't know why she can't come out and be her usual Velcro kitty
self...
I may be up very late...


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

What you're going through seems pretty much normal to me when trying to catch a sample. It doesn't make any sense to me to put a cat (and cat mama) through this much stress when they're already possibly sick. To create a situation where a cat that possibly has a UTI ends up holding urine all day seems like it would just make the situation worse. 

Kobi had a cysto last week...it only took a few minutes to perform, no anesthesia and his bladder was almost empty. Cost me $19. 

At this point I'd give her a litter box and let her breath a sigh of relief. Call in the morning for an appt for the cysto. Then syringe some water in a few hours before and confine her.


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## Carmel (Nov 23, 2010)

TabbCatt said:


> Oops, I meant "clean catch" there, not "free catch", I guess.


... but you were right it _is_ called a free catch! :lol: Maybe the terms are interchangeable but I've always heard "free catch".

The cysto is probably a better method, but you'll have to discrdit blood if it's found...


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## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

I went through this with Doran just a few months ago. All my cats are fairly 'velcro'-like, but he's definitely Momma's boy.

For the inital catch I stuffed as much water as I could down his little throat, then took him straight to the vet. Our vet is 45 mintues away, and then I figured another 10-15 minute wait for the vet...it worked out perfectly. As soon as they took him to the back to see if they could get him to go he peed right on their table.

The second time was tougher, and so was the third. I did the catch at home into a plastic container I cleaned thoroughly (and was fine with throwing out  ). Doran and Muffin have always peed while slowly lifting their bums (we call it 'elevator peeing'), so I put gloves on, stood behind him, and waited for him to go. It worked great the first time I tried that...the second time I tried for a good 4-5 hours. Stuffing water into him and keeping him in a kennel otherwise. He finally did go, but it was exhausting.

I didn't mind keeping him in a tiny kennel to prevent him going somewhere else because I needed the sample to make him better. Between that and the fact that I made sure my kitties are all used to being kenneled (for exactly this reason - kenneling during stressful times without added stress), it worked out.

The worst he did was whine a bit when I first put him in. I gave him a few treats and he calmed down right away. TBh he liked that a lot better than me following him around with a plastic cup, lol.


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Thanks Doodlebug, Carmel and Librarychick...
Snickers still hasn't pee'd, so I'm going to go with the 'Cysto'...
I don't want her any further stressed at this point.

I'll reschedule with the vet and make sure I get water into her...
I live about a mile away from my 
vet, so if I start giving her water by syringe...would it be better to start two hours earlier? And about how many "CC's" of water?


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## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

I wouldn't stress about how much you get in, just get in as much water as you can. If she'll drink it, rather than you having to syringe it, all the better. I would have given Doran lactose free milk if I'd had any! That'd have done the trick.

I planned to give him the water 1 hour before he was going to see the vet, so 2 hours prior could make for a very uncomfortable kitty...or one that pees in the kennel which is exactly what you DON'T want.


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Thank You Librarychick! I'll plan on, an hour ahead!
Snicker's is soooooo Happy to be out of the bathroom! 
I feel better now too! 
Many Thanks!
Sharon


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

The verdict is in...my poor baby is showing struvite crystals...
Snickers is going to the vet in the morning...
Of course, a change of diet was recommended...
They get canned, twice a day in the am and pm...
I did just change the dry I also give them for their snacks...
It was one of the Chicken Soup for the Soul varieties...
This issue for Snickers falls right into the time frame of the change in that food...


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## TabbCatt (Mar 26, 2014)

Aww, no...I'm sorry to hear of Snicker's condition, 10cats...sigh. It must be very expensive to feed so many kitties! At least you found her piddling in time to recognize she needs a vet visit, though! And you are wise enough to switch her over to wet food, so that should definitely help. Hoping all the best for Snickers tomorrow!

Btw, I'm guessing the vet ended up doing a cysto since the clean catch method was a failure the first time around?


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Thanks TC, No, thanks to my work schedule last week...I wasn't able to get an appointment for a Cysto 
draw :banghead:
I got a pee from her in a newly washed soft cat bed, so I ran that over to the vet...I did tell them that.
I'm going to have them do a Cysto on her tomorrow, since I got an appointment for her, I want to be very, very sure...

All my cats have been fed canned, ever since I joined the forum here.

I was giving them the Canidae Grain Free dry, for their snacks...
I am going back to that, no one had any problems at all...

It's just since I changed the dry, that Snickers has gotten this!
She is a Super Sensitive Cat...

Sometimes, I hate my work schedule


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## 0ozma (Sep 22, 2012)

Aw, poor Snickers. I hope she gets the help she needs and starts feeling better!


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Thanks Oozma! Me too!


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## TabbCatt (Mar 26, 2014)

Just wondering....do you have a water fountain set up for them? It might also help prevent Snickers and your other kitties from developing crystals, if you're giving them dry snacks, too. Another costly thing to upkeep, though, so I understand if you don't.
I think I'd definitely water down her food for a while, and hope she laps all of it up without protest.


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

TC, I do add some water to their canned meals, and I have water bowls everywhere! And I know they're drinking it, because the dogs can't get to them!
I've always kept an eye on the size of the pee clumps too, and since a number of them like to use the boxes as soon as I've cleaned them, I usually have a very good insight into how they're doing!
Thanks!


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## bluemilk (Oct 3, 2005)

Great idea, going back to healthy snacks! 

This must be tough for both you and Snickers! 

We're here for you guys!


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## Speechie (Dec 2, 2013)

Just seen this, poor snickers!! She is a beauty, though! I hope she feels better with the food change.


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Thanks Bluemilk and Speechie!

I just talked to the vet...again.
Definitely food related and the only change was in the dry I give them as snacks...
Something in the different food has changed the PH levels...
Now I'm really hoping no one else starts showing symptoms...


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

When I asked the vet about doing a Cysto tomorrow, they don't think it's necessary...
They will be prescribing an antibiotic, because of the crystals cutting or creating little tears in the bladder walls, which can lead to an infection...
She doesn't have an infection at this point...
Argh...


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## spirite (Jul 31, 2012)

Well, I guess it's good that it's not a UTI, at least? I don't know anything about crystals - will the antibiotic get rid of the crystals? Or will they go away by themselves if you change her food back?

Poor thing. I hope that the antibiotic and changing her food back do the trick!


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Hi Spirite, The antibiotic won't help the crystal problem...it's just in case the crystals cause enough irritation to the lining in the bladder by causing little cuts/nicks...which could then become infected...

It will take a diet change and more water moving through her, to get the crystals under control...
I was already feeding everyone canned, twice a day, with water added...

The only thing that was changed, was the dry food brand...
And it just seems to coincidental that she developed this, about two weeks into snacking on the new kibble...

Her urinary PH was/has changed...
This is what is causing the Struvite crystals...


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## TabbCatt (Mar 26, 2014)

10cats-
Are you confused because your vet doesn't want to do the cysto or something else? Sorry, I may not have understood why you're confused...:-(
I hope Snickers gets better soon.


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

TC, yeah, because everyone here says the CYSTO is the only way to go...I was even rereading some fairly recent threads, and the CYSTO is really pushed...
The sample I got was totally fresh and I refrigerated it immediately! 
I was at my vets door as soon as they opened...
I guess I'll find out more tomorrow...
Thanks TC!


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## laurief (Jun 22, 2008)

Refrigerating urine won't prevent it from crystallizing. That's why having a urine sample collected in the vet's office and put under the microscope IMMEDIATELY is so important for accurately diagnosing a crystal problem. ALL cat urine crystallizes as it sits outside of the body. If you collected urine and let it sit in the fridge overnight before getting it to your vet for analysis, it was going to show crystals. That doesn't mean that your cat has a crystal problem. Maybe she does, maybe she doesn't. You won't know without a sample collected IN THE VET'S OFFICE and put under the microscope immediately.

Laurie


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Laurie, That's what I thought...
But she said why do I want that done and I said to be sure of the treatment...
She then said something about the PH levels being high (?)
She said they didn't see any blood or white blood cells...
Believe me, I want my little love bug Snickers, feeling better...
I think she's managed to pee in four, out of all the cat beds, I have for them...I know she's not feeling good.

I'm going to demand that the Cysto is done...
Thanks Laurie...
Sharon


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

I have called my vet and I told them I want the Cysto done. Period.
Our appointment is at 10:10 am.
It looked like Snickers was getting ready to pee in another cat bed, so I scooped her up and got her into a crate...
I will start giving her some extra water, about an hour before we leave.
Since it's such a short drive to the vets, I'm hopeing she doesn't pee in the crate...
and has a full enough bladder for the CYSTO...


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## TabbCatt (Mar 26, 2014)

Good for you, 10cats!
This will make sure Snickers is diagnosed correctly!
When my kitties were at the vet a few months back, my male cat peed in his carrier (from stress, I think). The vet was still able to get adequate urine sample via cysto, so I'm sure Snickers will be able to give a proper sample, too.

Hoping the best for her, and no accidents occur!
Please keep us posted!


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Thanks TC!


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Laurie, 
Thank You for the "Tough Love" post and cutting through the "BS"...
I needed that!


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## laurief (Jun 22, 2008)

It is possible to nick a vein during the cysto and to contaminate the sample with blood as a result, but since you know already from the free catch sample that there's no blood in her urine, any blood that shows up in the cysto sample will be irrelevant.

A high urinary pH can make her susceptible to crystal development, but it's not definitive until and unless crystals are confirmed in a properly acquired and immediately evaluated sample.

If the initial urinalysis on the cysto sample shows bacteria, ask them to perform a culture, as well, so that you know exactly which bacteria is/are present. That's the only way your vet will be able to prescribe an antibiotic with known efficacy against the specific bacteria present.

Laurie


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Thank You Laurie, for the additional information! 
If something shows up, I will get the culture done!


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

I'm back from the vet...
Snickers is still there...she pee'd in the crate, so they're going to give her some time and see if her bladder fills up enough for the CYSTO draw...
She had such huge eyes, scared :'(
Now...I'm stressing...


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## TabbCatt (Mar 26, 2014)

Awww. I'm so sorry she had an accident.
But at least they are doing the cysto like you requested.
She'll be fine when she gets back home with you, I'm sure! My boy returned to his normal self right after his "trauma visit". There's just no place like home for kitties.
Hang in there, 10cats...


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Snickers has been at the vets four hours now...
Obviously they haven't done the Cysto draw yet...
Does anyone know if the vets give extra fluids, so they can get a draw??


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## laurief (Jun 22, 2008)

Only your vet can answer that question. Give them a call and ask.


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Ok, I called my vet. They checked her about 35 minutes ago and shes still not full enough for the draw...
They don't like to give extra water because of it diluting the urine...

It's a good thing my hair is already silver and grey...


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## laurief (Jun 22, 2008)

That makes sense to me.


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Thanks Laurie! If it makes sense to you, that makes me feel a little better!


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## larsan (May 3, 2014)

10cats2dogs said:


> It's a good thing my hair is already silver and grey...


I always say I've earned every single gray hair (I'm totally gray) and these things sure do grow more of those gray ones.

Hope you get to the bottom of this soon. You both need to deep breath and relax


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Thanks Larsan! Yeah, these little furry ones sure do know how to worry us!


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## TabbCatt (Mar 26, 2014)

Omigosh, I'm so sorry you're still waiting, 10cats...:-(
I hope it won't be much longer!
Sending positive vibes to you and Snickers...


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Aww, Thanks TC!


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

I've got Snickers home!  Success finally!
Urine analysis: (from today)
Specific Gravity: 1.016
PH: 7.5
Leukocytes: Moderate
Nitrate: --
Protein: 32
Glucose: neg
Ketone: neg
Urobilinogen: neg
Bilirubin: neg
Blood: +++ (from needle today)
Casts: --
Crystals: Struvite
RBC/HPF: +++
WBC/HPF: +
Other: Epiv (maybe, hard to read the writing!)

Snickers must have been crying the whole time she was there...
She sounds so hoarse now...poor girl...
I wiped her down with wipes when I got her home...
Of course, she'll be on the Prescription C/D diet for a while...
And I've got Clavamox drops to give her...


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## larsan (May 3, 2014)

10cats, Gizmo has been on CD for 2 years. He was so bad he had 2 have 2 back to back surgeries to unblock him, but he's been fine since then.

I pray your results are as good as his have been. So glad he's home so you can cuddle & love.


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## TabbCatt (Mar 26, 2014)

10cats-
I think the only thing I'm seeing is alkaliine urine pH level, struvite crystals (vet already dx'd that), and maybe dilute urine (specific gravity).
I'm not sure what the Epiv means...

How is Snickers doing now?


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Larsan, Poor Gizmo! Anything dealing with the "plumbing" on a male cat is always more serious, thats why it's so important to pay attention to all the little things, that can help clue you in!
I had a male cat years ago that would get UI's and he did block once...scared me to death!
I'm happy Gizmo is doing so well now!


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

TC, 
Snickers spent a good while in grooming herself, probably to self sooth, and clean herself up!
She's normally very fastidious about grooming!
She wanted her snuggles and pets, Big Time! 
Then she crashed out for a cat nap!
I'm sure relieved she's home!


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## TabbCatt (Mar 26, 2014)

Good to hear she's settled down now.
Guess she wanted to make sure the "clinic scent" is off her completely, lol.
I hope she takes to eating the Hills C/D diet without problems and your stress levels have tapered off for now!


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Yep! Snicker's is chillin' and so am I!
Snickers and Biscuit chillin', watching "Cat TV!" Bird feeders in background!


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## TabbCatt (Mar 26, 2014)

Love that backyard! And your photo of them both, lol. 
Seems you live in a drier climate for Oregon!


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

I live in Central Oregon, The High Desert Area! Much drier than the Valley!


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## spirite (Jul 31, 2012)

Aw poor Snickers! I'm sorry it ended up being so stressful for both of you! 

I wish I could offer words of wisdom about the results of the urinalysis, but I can't, so I'll just say how glad I am that she's back home with you now! I'm sure she's getting lots of extra lovin' tonight!


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## laurief (Jun 22, 2008)

These links can help you interpret and understand the urine test results:

Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease - Urinalysis
Normal Dog and Cat Blood And Urine Chemistry Test Results
Urinalysis Test in Cats | Cat Health Collection


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Thank You Laurie for the links!


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Larsan, That CD diet food stinks!
P-ewww! 
How did you manage as long as you did with Gizmo?!


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## larsan (May 3, 2014)

10cats2dogs said:


> Larsan, That CD diet food stinks!
> P-ewww!
> How did you manage as long as you did with Gizmo?!


Well when he actually liked it and I just never thought I should take him off. But then I came across this forum and began reading. I thought if he gets all the water he needs in hugs food, then probably taking him off the C/D wouldn't hurt him any. Hope tis doesn't backfire on us.


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

I hope I don't have to have Snickers on this very long!

Hopefully Gizmo's system has stabilized enough over the two years, that he'll be fine now with a good quality canned food!


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## larsan (May 3, 2014)

10cats2dogs said:


> I hope I don't have to have Snickers on this very long!
> 
> Hopefully Gizmo's system has stabilized enough over the two years, that he'll be fine now with a good quality canned food!


I agree with you on both counts. Snickers needs to heal and get back to perfect health and Giz just doesn't need anything more to deal with other than those darn depo shots.


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## ischa (May 10, 2014)

Hi there,

You're both right. If you want to be certain there is blood in the urine a clean catch is better. For everything else bladder punction is best (crystals, bacteria, culture of urine). Doing both is preferable, but if I had to choose I would pick puncture. A dip stick at home in urine is very sensitive for picking up blood.

Ischa


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Well Snickers gave me a "what the 'L'" look over the CD food...
I can see this is going to be fun...
Sigh...Cats...


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## spirite (Jul 31, 2012)

How long does Snickers need to be on this food? Not long, I hope.


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Hi Spirite! 
Unfortunately, She's supposed to eat it for at least a month! The operative word being "eat"! :banghead:


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Not a happy update...
Snicker's issues have flared up again...
She'll be going to the vet, Thursday or Friday, for another check/test...
It's either the Struvite Crystals back or??

This time, I'm thinking about some pain medication for her as well...
What is the SAFEST recommended for this particular issue??
Would the Buprenorphine be a good choice?

Dang it...poor baby is definitely uncomfortable...again...
Thanks...
Sharon


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## Mochas Mommy (Dec 9, 2013)

Sorry to hear about her problems coming back......I'm no help for them tho. Hope she gets better quickly!


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## spirite (Jul 31, 2012)

Oh Sharon, I'm so sorry that little Snickers isn't feeling well again. 

I can't offer any advice on the pain meds, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed that all goes well with the vet visit. Poor little girl. A big squishy hug to her from me!


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## Emiline (Sep 26, 2014)

10cats2dogs said:


> TC,
> What I thought was interesting was what my vet said about the fact, that they wouldn't be able to tell if there was blood in the urine, if it was already present or from the needle puncturing the bladder when they put it in...


Just thought I would clear this up for ya 

A UTI is caused when bacteria enters the urethra (Ecoli the most common one). The infection then strips the urethra of the lining which is why when you pee it burns like a mother. 

The blood that comes with having a UTI is coming from urine passing through the stripped urethra so it isn't actually IN the urine to begin with but comes down as it passes through. Plus when you do have a UTI you are urinating frequently so any blood would still be relatively fresh as it's being passed quickly if that makes sense.

So it would be frank blood as well.

Also when they do the actual test for blood it's just a simple pee stick so all it picks up is just that there is blood in the urine and roughly how much.


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Thanks Everyone! 
I have a vet appointment set for her tomorrow. 
And something of interest was brought up concerning ALFALFA! 
It can cause issues in some cats!
She asked me to bring in the ingredients list of anything I'm feeding them!
Sharon


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## Heather72754 (Nov 1, 2013)

Unfortunately, even the term UTI can be misleading - there are urinary tract _infections_, but they are very rare in cats. For most cats, the 'i' in UTI refers to _inflammation_, not infection, and is usually caused by stress and/or lack of fluids. It is best treated with two things - pain med and increased fluids. It is actually best treated by one other thing - NOT feeding dry food in cats that are prone to it because they just don't get enough moisture.


Sharon, was Snicker's cystocentesis analyzed in-house or sent out? Another Dr. Pierson quote:

"If your vet wants to _accurately_ assess for crystals, the urine must be looked at 'in-house' within 20 - 30 minutes of cystocentesis or the urine being voided."


If I were you, I would have a good read through her site in the urinary tract area. I got a lot from that, and a lot of reassurance when Mystique was going through her cystitis brought on by stress back in August.


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Heather,
Her urine was checked 'in-house', not sent out...she'll be getting the free catch, to check for blood that might already be present, then the needle draw, when her bladder has refilled enough...
poor baby will be at the vets, for probably the whole day again...like last time...
Thanks!
Sharon


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## spirite (Jul 31, 2012)

10cats2dogs said:


> And something of interest was brought up concerning ALFALFA!
> It can cause issues in some cats!
> She asked me to bring in the ingredients list of anything I'm feeding them!
> Sharon


Oh no...I just looked at the labels of a bunch of brands and found 3 that have alfalfa - at least in the flavors I have, which are mostly fish - and 2 of the 3 are the only high-quality wet food that my girls will eat, so I hope they don't have issues!!

With alfalfa: Dave's 95% (tuna & chicken), Merrick's Purrfect Bistro (Tuna pate, chicken pate), By Nature (chicken & chicken liver, turkey & turkey liver, and oceanfish). 

Without: the regular Dave's (tuna & mackerel, oceanfish), Fussie Cat (two tuna flavors), NV Instinct (rabbit), Blue (kitten, and flaked tuna), Natural Balance (Land & Sea Casserole), Earthborne (Catalina something or other).


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## spirite (Jul 31, 2012)

Oh, poor little Snickers!


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Hi Spirite! 
Yeah, the Alfalfa issue has me quite intrigued...I will be asking her more about that tomorrow when I take Snickers in....
I'll share whatever I find out about it!
Sharon


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Alfalfa is very high in minerals! 
So...can cause problems for some cats! Not all!
Just another one of those things to be aware of!

Snicker's isn't showing any flare up of Struvite Crystals...
There was a tiny amount of blood and a tiny elevation in the white blood cells...
Going to see if an infection shows up, by culture...just to make sure...:what:


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## spirite (Jul 31, 2012)

Well it's good that it's not the crystals, at least. 

But you said she seems uncomfortable - I guess there some infections that cause issues with peeing? When will you know the results of the culture? 

Margaux went in for bloodwork today, but we had a late appointment, so I guess I'll get the results tomorrow. 

Thanks for the information on alfalfa - who knew?! There seem to be so few "safe" foods that aren't potentially bad for someone's health in some way - or of the health of our kitties, or dogs, or other pets!

I'll keep my fingers crossed that the culture shows no infection and that this was just a little blip in Snickers' health that'll go away by itself.


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## Heather72754 (Nov 1, 2013)

I would be very surprised if there is an infection, as according to Dr. Pierson 99% of urinary issues in cats do not involve infections. Sharon, is Snickers one of your cats that doesn't really like canned food? If so, she might be lacking a bit in moisture. Or if she does eat canned food well, maybe she needs a bit more fluid added just the same? Not sure what you do now, maybe you already do all this. I won't be surprised if once you get her on pain meds she gets over it - it could be litter box avoidance that she has learned by being uncomfortable.


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Thanks Spirite! 
I hope Margaux is OK!


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Hi Heather!
Snicker's loves her canned food, and yep, I add extra water to all of their canned! Plus I have bowls of water scattered all though out the house!
I've also got a feeling the culture will come back negative...but...I still figured, I'd rather be safe, than sorry! This is my little Velcro kitty we're talking about here!
I'm going to use the kitty attractant for the kitty litter and hopefully the Buprenorphine, for pain, will do the trick!
At least it's not the Crystals back!
Thanks!
Sharon


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## spirite (Jul 31, 2012)

Any news on the culture? 

How is Snickers? Does she look any less uncomfortable?


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Hi Spirite! 
I got her pain medicine today and though I could give it to her twice a day...I think I'll try once a day to start and see how that goes...
The culture could take anywhere from two to ten days...depending on what may show up...:what:
How is Margaux?


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## spirite (Jul 31, 2012)

Oh, I didn't realize cultures took that long! I hope the pain meds help little Snickers. 

Well, no call from the vet today, and I didn't have a chance to call them. I assume that there's no crisis, but I'll call on Monday. She was surprisingly not screechy at the vet, which always makes me think she's not feeling well. But she seems ok, other than she's lost some weight. I'm pretty sure it's just that she can't smell her food, and she can't see it.


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## TabbCatt (Mar 26, 2014)

10cats,
I'm so sorry about Snickers, but yes, at least it's not SV like you mentioned, I'm so glad, too. I sure hope the pain med works wonders for her and she feels better soon.


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Culture is back...No infection...:what:

EFA's were recommended, can anyone recommend a good brand that cats can easily take?

So at least ruled out pretty much anything physically wrong...
Sigh...


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## laurief (Jun 22, 2008)

Lack of infection doesn't mean that there's nothing physically wrong. Interstitial cystitis is inflammation of unknown cause of the urinary tract, and it's a very real, PHYSICAL ailment. It is frequently caused by some type of stress. You should thoroughly evaluate all aspects of your cat's life and see if you can identify and minimize or eliminate all potential sources of stress that may be triggering these episodes. 

Laurie


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Laurie,
I worded that wrong! I should have said "Infection wise"...
I know Something is still going on, thats why I got the Buprenorphine for her...
I'm hoping that helps...she's also wearing a pheromone collar for calming...
I already clean out the litter boxes, twice a day minimum, and I have them spread around the house, just in case someone decides to harass the one trying to use it...
This particular cat is my "needest" one I'd say, if Snicker's could crawl under my skin, she might feel thats finally close enough! 

I'm open to any suggestions...

Thanks Laurie for your concern!
Sharon


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## TranquilityBlue (Nov 13, 2014)

10cats2dogs said:


> This is Snickerdoodles!
> My little, scared, needy Love Bug Girl!
> View attachment 55826


OMG :luv

I wasnt going to comment since I'm a green cat owner and I have little to offer other than sympathy but ... she is super gorgeous and I hope she feels better soon ... poor kitty  she is lucky to have such an obviously caring mom


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Thanks Tranquility Blue!
Snicker's is slowly doing better, pain med helped, as has cat litter attractant, she is also wearing a 'calming' pheromone collar, two of my boy cats are also wearing calming collars, to try and subdue their exuberance around Snicker's...
And I've got her taking Cosequin, which is also supposed to help bladder issues...
She is a Super Sensitive little cat!
I think since all of this started, I've been helping to keep 'Nature's Miracle' in business!!
I'm still playing detective! 
I'm still looking for a good source or supplement for EFA's for her...
Sharon


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## TabbCatt (Mar 26, 2014)

Sharon,
Do you mean EFAs as in fish oil or salmon oil? I think there are treats for cats, but I've never tried them. Maybe doodlebug has some good suggestions?


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Hi TC!
Yes! I'm wondering about Krill oil at this point...as I understand it, it doesn't have the heavy fishy flavor, that most cat's don't like (?)
Also wondering about things like olive oil or coconut oil??
I'd prefer to find something I could pick up at my nutrition store, rather than the cat treat form, if possible...
Sharon


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## olywhizz (Mar 25, 2014)

My cat Whizzer has been dealing with UTI and crystals. My vet got the urine sample from using a catheter so any blood they found was already in the urine. Just a thought but maybe next time your vet could try a catheter as well. Whizzer is well behaved with people and would allow the catheter some cats might not. Anyway I hope this clears up soon for your cat.


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