# Small Dogs Good With Cats?



## Jazzy The Siberian (Nov 30, 2012)

I'm happy to tell you,we might be adding a new addition, to the family,a DOG!Of Course, Jazzy comes first,so I want a breed good with cats,Childern & dogs. At the same I want the breed to easy to train,smart,& easy to house train. I'm interested in doing agility,flyball,frisbee,Obidence & Trick training.

:2kitties Thanks! rcat


----------



## Jazzy The Siberian (Nov 30, 2012)

I'd like a dog that's easy to train & excels at agility,flyball,frisbee,Obidence & Trick training.


----------



## Venusworld21 (Oct 23, 2012)

Border collie comes to mind as meeting most of the requirements, however they're not very small.  50 lbs or so. They're also very high energy, so won't do well without LOTS of regular exercise. They're very smart (bred to be working dogs) and so NEED a job to do or can become very destructive if they get bored. Most of the really smart, high energy breeds that you're describing will need a ton and a half of exercise daily to avoid becoming destructive. 

A lot of the much smaller breeds that are energetic and smart (dachshunds, jack russels...pretty much any kind of terriers) were bred to help with the hunting of smaller animals are are less likely to get along with cats as their natural instinct is to chase them and a lot of cats won't understand/tolerate that.

For any breed you're looking at, research what they were bred for. If they were bred to hunt small animals, they might not get along so well with cats. If they were bred to herd or guard, probably better with smaller animals.  If they were bred as companion animals, they aren't likely to have the kind of energy you want for the hobbies you're interested in.


----------



## 3gatos (Nov 28, 2012)

I'd say a cattle dog, they get about 45lbs though, don't know any small dogs that would be alright with kitties. 
Or I guess any herding breed would be good and easy to train. Maybe a sheltie would be a good fit for you? 
Just keep in mind, all of those things that you want require countless hours of training, they don't just come with the dog, and any dog can be trained to excel at any/all of those things.


----------



## Carmel (Nov 23, 2010)

Jazzy The Siberian said:


> I'd like a dog that's easy to train & excels at agility,flyball,frisbee,Obidence & Trick training.


Dogs really good at the first three things are more likely to be working dogs and are very high energy and therefore do not fit with my lifestyle nor are all that small. But any breed or mutt can be taught to enjoy them, it also helps if you raise a dog - starting young - interested in these activities. I don't know why frisbee type activities are at the top of your list; if you simply want a dog to fetch a ball then most any dog is capable. 

As far as agility goes, any dog can do that as well (ever watched the Super Dogs? I see them every year at the fair and they come in all shapes and sizes) ... it's worth noting that all of these activities take lots of training outside of a regular dog and also that just because some breeds are better doesn't mean every dog of that type will be interested nor that any dog of another ancestory isn't capable.

I'm happy with a dog that simply loves fetching, heels reasonably well, and knows tricks: crawling, sit, down, stay, come, play dead, shake a paw, "go on" (aka run to the end of the bed, do a circle and lay down for bed... incorporated outside of the bed: run away, do a circle an lay down, haha silly dog), down (off furniture), waits for command to jump on my lap/bed, let's go (jump off my lap)... waits at the top and bottom of the stairs before following me, drops and leaves items/toys on command, sits at the door and waits for me to open it and an "ok" before running outside, charges around looking for toys at the mention of "ball", "toy" or "pig"  And what is she? A mutt. 15 pounds of - according to a DNA test - Poodle (1/4th of her), Cavalier (1/8th), some other Spaniels, a terrier or two, even some Chinese Crested in there.

If I was to pick a breed, I'd probably always pick a Poodle or Poodle mix. Very intelligent dogs without a worry of a high prey drive.


----------



## builder (Sep 2, 2012)

Some dogs are very hyper and are very annoying to cats. 

I’m not a pure bred type and I prefer the Heinz 57 variety. They have always been the best dogs for me although I do have a beagle that was given to me. My animals are for life unless someone really truly wants it, but I would never have another beagle and I wish someone would take her.


----------



## Dave_ph (Jul 7, 2009)

My neighbors did well with Greyhounds and cats. They dont' fit any of your other wants, they're couch potatos but any enerhetic small dog is likely to be a problem with a cat. Excepts a Pomerania. I saw a Pom in a cat rescuers house. They're full of personality and play. He was a doll


----------



## Arianwen (Jun 3, 2012)

I usually have both dogs and cats and I think that training and the individual temperament is more important than breed. My current dog (who has been pictured on here with cats) is a high energy cross breed - it's generally felt that there is a staffie x greyhound in there somewhere so not an obvious choice with cats but she has adored them from the time she arrived. She had to learn boundaries but had no malice which is very important. She was a few months old and had been abused when we first had her but the Shelter felt that she would be amenable when it came to cats. The rest is history! 

Similarly we had a Jack Russell who foster weaned kittens without batting an eyelid.

If you are getting a puppy then the early training will be crucial. A lot also depends on your cat(s) - my current dog was very much trained by one of my old cats with perfect use of positive and negative reinforcement!!!


----------



## Arianwen (Jun 3, 2012)

Please excuse the mess!!!


----------



## Arianwen (Jun 3, 2012)




----------



## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

The energy level needed for the types of activities you mention are at odds with the typical cat. Of course there are always exceptions but you will need to qualify the dog very carefully. Getting a puppy and raising it with the cat does not always ensure compatibility.

I have been involved in the dog and cat world for many years, the most common story I hear is that once the high energy dog is added the cat(s) end up spending a lot of time away from wherever the dog is...which means the cats are in different rooms from the family. I just recently added a dog to my 3 cat home. He's very low energy with little interest in the cats. But he does have a couple times a day where he gets a burst and starts jumping around, maybe barking etc. and the cats all scatter. If he were doing this regularly throughout the day, I'm sure I would see very little of the cats. 

I also saw on another post that you are a student. To me that translates to little time during the school year and no money. Doing an activity like agility, the right way, is extremely expensive...training, use of facilities, travel to competitions, entry fees etc. Unless you're just talking about working on agility in your backyard just for fun with some homemade obstacles, I don't think your plans for all these activities are realistic. 

I also get the impression that you've never had a dog before. As someone who just adopted her first dog, I can say that after 6 months with him I'm still learning new things about dogs, and this dog in particular, every day. At this point in your life, my advice would be to find a nice little companion dog that gets along well with your cat. Learn about dogs...their behaviors, how they think, how they react etc. Also learn how your cat responds to the dog's various behaviors. And then use that knowledge to choose a second dog a few years from now that will allow you to participate in the activities you mention.


----------



## builder (Sep 2, 2012)

KittyLover12 said:


> I think big dogs can get along with cats too, it all just depends on how they're introduced.


 Oh absolutely. I used to have large Flathead Retriever that we recued that loved our cat Midnight. The two would play endlessly and happy the dog would be ever so gentle with him. She would drag midnight around the floor like a dust mop and midnight loved it. When Happy died I think Midnight was actually depressed for awhile.


----------



## catloverami (Jul 5, 2010)

I would stay away from most Terriers as they can have a high prey drive. Check out a Papillon. It's a toy breed, but energetic, not as yappy as most small dogs, very smart, obedient and do well at agility. They have a silky non-matting coat that doesn't require regular grooming like a poodle. A Miniature Poodle may be a good choice too, but they do required regular clipping.

Welcome to the Papillon Club of America


----------



## Carmel (Nov 23, 2010)

builder said:


> Some dogs are very hyper and are very annoying to cats.


I'd be worried about this too, I've never had a hyper dog but I've met them. Ditto on the Beagle comment too, hounds in general aren't my thing from the few I know. One in particular (a Basset) is a slobbering, food obsessed, barking maniac. You can't leave any food anywhere. He's the most disobedient dog I've ever met. Fun loving and gentle for sure, but too simple minded/strong willed... whatever you want to call it.  I wouldn't trust them off leash either, they're lead by their noses. I also haven't met a hound that fetches, or does much of anything it doesn't want to do. Sometimes they feel like a different species, haha.



catloverami said:


> I would stay away from most Terriers as they can have a high prey drive. Check out a Papillon.


This is good advice. We had a Terrier and while she was good with most cats, even really liked one, she chased one a lot even though she knew she shouldn't. The cat was a lynx point and we think it looked too much like a raccoon for her to control herself. She also chased raccoons (wrecking her legs as she jumped over an embankment as a young dog) and rats and once even snapped a robin out of the air. She was a fantastic dog, one of the best, but I'd never own one again.

Papillon are a good suggestion, and of course Mini Poodle as well, which is pretty much all my family has owned or mixes of it. I would really look into any of the companion breeds. They are best for a regular home that doesn't have hours to spend every day exercising and entertaining their dog, and are still up for training sessions when you're ready and look to please however they can.


----------



## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

It's funny how we all have different perspectives. I know 3 papillions and based on 2 of them, I wouldn't give one house space. I'm sure a lot has to do with training or lack of but they're total brats.

I had spent a lot of time looking at dogs in the companion class when I was searching for Jake. I was really thinking Cavalier King Charles, but I wanted to rescue and they have so many severe medical issues that I was uncomfortable with taking on the potential problems that would come with not knowing the dog's genetic history. (For those that don't know...50% of the CKCS develop heart problems by age 5 and typically die within 3-4 years, but if they are bred properly they can live well into their teens.)


----------



## Venusworld21 (Oct 23, 2012)

For what it's worth, my girl (a mix from the shelter) is, I think, a lab/whippet mix. Maybe some pit bull in there too. She looks like a miniature lab, but a bit skinnier and with a more greyhound looking shape to her chest. She's about 50 lbs now that she's full grown. SUPER mellow with the cats. We got her at 8 weeks and she was raised around the cats. To this day she and Diablo (who we got as an 8 week old kitten a few weeks after the puppy) play together. She's got lots of energy though and can run for hours. (Literally, she ran laps at the dog park for two hours.) I much prefer mixes to purebreds. 

Any of the retriever type breeds would probably be good with cats, as they were bred to bring the small animals back to their owners, not to damage/hurt them in any way. They also have a bit more energy than companion dogs do. But they're generally larger than what you're looking for...I think most of those breeds average between 50-100 lbs.


----------



## builder (Sep 2, 2012)

doodlebug said:


> I had spent a lot of time looking at dogs in the companion class when I was searching for Jake. I was really thinking Cavalier King Charles, but I wanted to rescue and they have so many severe medical issues that I was uncomfortable with taking on the potential problems that would come with not knowing the dog's genetic history. (For those that don't know...50% of the CKCS develop heart problems by age 5 and typically die within 3-4 years, but if they are bred properly they can live well into their teens.)


 This is exactly why I prefer the Heinz 57 variety. I’ve had a lot of dogs over the years and they never seem to have the problems that I’m always hearing about with pedigrees. Maybe it’s just my luck, but they always seem to be smarter and more social. My best dogs were always mixed breed and my worst were pedigrees. Plus I get satisfaction from saving an unwanted animals life. I’ve had people tell me that the puppy mills are responsible for most of the problems, but I think it’s all the inbreeding. 

I have a dog right now that looks like a coyote mix that is one of the smartest dogs I’ve ever had. I literally saved her life from the Pound and I think she knows it. She just seems to know exactly what I want and does it. 

Before I rescued my kittens from my neighborhood Page was already friends with them when they briefly were staying in my back yard and she even protected them from my beagle. Even the mother cat trusted Page with her kittens. Now that the kittens are grown and inside my house they always go to Page and sometimes even sleep with her as if they think she’s their mother.


----------



## Leazie (Apr 14, 2007)

A great smaller breed to have with cats is a corgi. My ex in laws had a cute corgi as well as a cat and they got along just fine. Since corgi's might decide that they need to retrieve the cat, or a small kid, you do need to be aware of that, although we had that problem with our border collie also.

I have always thought that if a corgi came along in a couple of years I might be tempter to get him/her.


----------



## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

builder said:


> This is exactly why I prefer the Heinz 57 variety. I’ve had a lot of dogs over the years and they never seem to have the problems that I’m always hearing about with pedigrees. Maybe it’s just my luck, but they always seem to be smarter and more social. My best dogs were always mixed breed and my worst were pedigrees. Plus I get satisfaction from saving an unwanted animals life. I’ve had people tell me that the puppy mills are responsible for most of the problems, but I think it’s all the inbreeding.


And this is exactly why I ended up with Jake. He was advertised as a Tibetan Spaniel/Pom mix. I think the Tibbie part is right, but not the Pom. In any case, he's a rescue...extremely well behaved, doesn't bother the cats, loves most people and other dogs, doesn't chew etc. etc. And while he's game to run around the dog park for 2 hours without stopping, he's not a candidate for agility or any other organized type activity. Heck he won't even chase a ball. I can play a better game of fetch with Holly than with Jake.


----------



## Carmel (Nov 23, 2010)

:lol: I never know what to do with dogs that won't chase a ball.

The one thing about mutts (I agree about health, and the Cavalier is the most tragic of breeds out there for such a loving family oriented disposition) is that if you guess wrong on their personality it might not mesh with your home. 

I suppose if you're getting them old enough that takes some of the worry off, but we've always had puppies. If you go for one that you know is a purebred or one where you can mostly take a good shot at guessing their breed history, then you also have a fairly good picture at their temperament and activity level but where they're more of a toss up it's worrying to me that you could end up with working or herding dog traits, and with cats or your lifestyle that isn't always a plus.

Anyway, here's one of our mutts:


----------



## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

Your dog and Jake could be littermates...I'll post a pic of him tonight.


----------



## Galathiel (Feb 6, 2012)

I would also have to recommend a papillon, particularly if you want to do agility. They are incredibly fast dogs and the one that I had loved everyone and everything, particularly cats. My last cat was old and grumpy but she and my pap would play chase (the pap was always the one getting chased hehe). They are affectionate and happy dogs. I plan to have another one in the future .. along with another German Shepherd.

However, as with most small dogs, be careful that children aren't too rough. The legs of a pap are slim and long and could be injured in rough play.


----------



## hoofmaiden (Sep 28, 2009)

Don't focus on breeds or type--find an INDIVIDUAL who is good w/ cats. The best thing would be to adopt an adult dog (NOT a puppy) who is already known to be good w/ cats. Most rescue groups that foster their dogs out will be able to tell you this. Of course, if your cats are not used to dogs, you may have a problem no matter what. Cats who freak out and run in the presence of dogs will cause even the most cat-friendly dog to chase. The chase reflex is a powerful one in a carnivore.

Example: I have 3 dogs, all of whom are GREAT w/ 3 of my 4 my indoor cats. They cuddle with them, lick them, etc. #4, Erik, is semi feral and he is still wary of the dogs, esp. young Daniel, who is a hyper mess.  I am EXTREMELY careful when Erik is out and about in the living room (he often stays in the cat room, which has an extra tall baby gate w/ a cat door in the bottom in the doorway), b/c when Erik panics and runs, Daniel WILL chase him.

Much as the dogs are great w/ the other 3 cats (and the other 2 dogs are great w/ them ALL), I never, ever leave them alone together, b/c IMO that is a big risk. When I am out of the house the dogs are either in the yard or confined to my bedroom.

A sad example as to why this is a good idea: A few weeks ago I put the dogs out first thing in the morning (still pitch dark). Almost at once I heard screaming. I grabbed my spotlight and ran outside to find Sam (corgi mix) and Daniel (coonhound) killing a stray cat. It was horrible. I got them off her and ran inside for a carrier, but when I returned she was dead.

These are the same dogs who love their kitties--but those are kitties who, with the possible exception of Erik, do not act like prey. The stray cat acted like prey (she was outside, she ran, etc), and instinct kicked in.

Dogs and cats can get along well, and I have lived w/ both species continuously for 30+ years. But it is a mistake to trust them TOO much, and a mistake to forget that hunters are hunters, forevermore.


----------



## Zilla (Oct 29, 2012)

I think a young pup or an adult used to cats already would be fine. It really just depends on the dog I think not so much the breed. When I had a dog it took over 2 months for them to finally accept each others presence and Godzilla actually likes dogs but this particular one stared at him like a steak so he didn't really appreciate that but eventually they became buds!! I think the problem was this dog was a little larger and didn't know how to not play rough with the cat. Godzilla was used to my ex roomates little morkie which he loved. He liked to tackle him and ride on his back :lol: 


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


----------



## builder (Sep 2, 2012)

Hoofmaiden has a good point. I know that even though my Happy loved the cats, she also was a protector and knew who was supposed to be here and who was not. She has never killed anything, but I have seen her chase away stray cats out of the back yard.


----------



## Zilla (Oct 29, 2012)

Well the coonhound has a natural catch and kill... I've know that because I used to go raccoon hunting and thats just what they are bred for... As for the corgi she was probably just in on the action because her buddy was. Certain breeds with high prey drives I would be careful with but that's mostly the bigger dogs.... However any pup who was introduced to cats very young could be erased of that prey drive regardless of his breed. 


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


----------



## hoofmaiden (Sep 28, 2009)

Zilla said:


> Well the coonhound has a natural catch and kill... I've know that because I used to go raccoon hunting and thats just what they are bred for... As for the corgi she was probably just in on the action because her buddy was. Certain breeds with high prey drives I would be careful with but that's mostly the bigger dogs.... However any pup who was introduced to cats very young could be erased of that prey drive regardless of his breed.


Both dogs are male, and trust me--Sam (corgi mix) was probably the instigator. Again: I disagree w/ focusing on breed. NO DOG should ever be left w/ a cat alone, period. Getting a breed you think is "low prey drive" is a great way to end up being complacent, leaving the cat and dog alone together, and come home to a bloodbath.

Find a dog known to be mellow w/ cats. In Daniel's case (coonhound) is main problem is that he is young and hyper--it will be ages before he can really control himself in exciting situations. Adopting a mellow adult dog known to be good w/ cats is the safest plan.

Most cats find puppies EXTREMELY annoying. I recommend against them absolutely.


----------



## Carmel (Nov 23, 2010)

hoofmaiden said:


> NO DOG should ever be left w/ a cat alone, period.


Honestly, totally way overkill precaution. I don't know anyone that separates their dogs and cats before leaving the house, and I know a ton of people with both dogs and cats, people that have owned both species together all their lifetime.

Mind you, I don't know anyone with highly prey driven or very large dogs, either. That may be part of it.

There's tons of dogs that wouldn't hurt a fly, and tons of cats that can take care of themselves, especially with smaller breeds. It should be evaluated on a case by case basis, with the more prey driven breeds more likely to not be left unsupervised.

My dogs _may_ chase a cat they don't know but they will not attack it. They're chickens, they don't want to get hurt. Heck, they may _try_ and chase a cat they do know; the cat doesn't care. Just looks at them like they're stupid for running at them.

Puppies can be annoying, sure... that's why when they're a puppy they are supervised when left with a cat. Our 2 year old dog we got at 8 weeks, the first month or two she chased Blacky whenever she saw her outdoors and Blacky was not impressed. Fast forward a little, with some training, and some learning the the cat was part of the pack, and they're total buddies. They get along better than any other animals in the family. My best friend recently got a puppy as well, that puppy and cat are attached at the hip! If the cat gets fed up with all the enthusiastic attention, she leaves.

Here's another family cat, a total spook, that's come out of her shell a little around the dog (yes, she's eating the dog's food):


----------



## Arianwen (Jun 3, 2012)

Got to honest and say my dogs and cats are NEVER separated and over a period of 50 years + I have never had a single worrying incident.

The biggest problem we ever had was with a very large (over a yard long from nose to tail) mainly feral who adored our dog but was the scourge of others. We were warned that a neighbours' border terrier who used to come in to feed in our house (different world back then) had killed a cat and we were very cautious until the day our cat who we hadn't noticed in the front room sent him squealing out of the house - he never even came close to a cat again!! At this time we had a fox terrier with a touch of border collie (not an obvious cat friendly mix) who was a total gem - they would have died for each other.

Often when we go out, Sadie is left in the house with six cats. 

As an aside, I love corgis (very much a local breed) but they are herders (cattle as opposed to sheep) and have the same problems as border collies. That isn't at all to say that I haven't known them live in perfect amity with cats.


----------



## hoofmaiden (Sep 28, 2009)

I've never had a problem either, but I prefer not to take the risk. I would NEVER be able to forgive myself if something happened. Imagine this scenario: Dog bugs cat while cat is sleeping. Cat whacks dog. Dog reacts by coming back at cat. Cat runs. Dog chases. Dog catches. 

WILL that happen? Of course it's not necessarily bound to. But it CAN happen and it DOES happen. It is a simple thing to separate the animals and it's something I do so that I never have to live through one beloved animal killing another.


----------



## Carmel (Nov 23, 2010)

As far as I'm concerned, that's like saying I could never leave the house because something - anything is _possible_ - could go wrong while I'm gone. It's like saying I might as well walk around and unplug everything in the house before leaving, because you just never know when an animal that's never shown as inclination before will chew on a wire and electrocute themselves... it DOES happen.

Likewise, those scenarios could happen while you're home, too. So really, if a large dog is going to attack at a cat, you're not going to be able to save it either way.

I'll take my chances. Animals mostly sleep when you're gone.


----------



## scottd (Jun 28, 2011)

We have 3 chihuahuas. 1 is just under 5lbs and the other 2 are about 8lbs. Then we have my 14lb kitty. They play. They chase each other. My cat baps them on the head if she wants to be left alone and all is good. Only 1 of the dogs grew up with the cat.

The chis never really bother her. They bother each other sometimes but they never bother her.

The chihuahuas can't do much damage even if they wanted. I probably wouldn't keep anything bigger than 10lbs with my cat though.


----------



## Zilla (Oct 29, 2012)

Sure it can happen... But normally if your keen on watching your dogs reactions and vibes you can tell what they would do in a situation where the cat might swat the dog. You should be seeing it after you introduce them. Now someone who leaves a newly introduced cat and dog alone is an idiot but if you've sat and watched the two interact over a long period of time where the two really know each other (like months).... then it can be totally fine to leave them alone IF everythings ok between the two. When I got my dog and he looked at Godzilla like a juicy steak I thought I was gonna have to give him up. It was bad for a month but they eventually got to the point where they would cuddle and share food. Now let me tell you they had some spats and I never left them alone at first. But after when they started really getting along I didnt feel scared at all leavin them alone. They never had any disagreements after a certain point. BUT if a dog and a cats relationship never gets to that point sure I would never leave them alone together.... Saying a dog and cat should never be alone together because the dog could kill the cat is a little bit overkill.... I've seen barn cats beat on a dog the size of a border collie or a lab and its not pretty... They end up scared to death of cats because they dont know what just hit them. Sometimes with smaller dogs I think its OK for your cat to show it can defend itself because then the dog will know not to provoke him. I dont declaw my cats though so that wouldnt work for ones that are.


----------



## Zephyriddle (Mar 28, 2012)

I don't separate my dogs and cats when I leave, but then my three are kittens and never stop so the dogs are already used to them tearing around the house at full speed and don't bother trying to chase. My parent's labs don't care about the cats, but their mini poodle will chase them everyone she sees one. 
My oldest dane is indifferent to them, my pup likes them, and all three kittens love the boys. 











































I also compete in rally and traditional obedience. Zephyr's first rally advanced run. He's since gone on to earn his RN, RA and RE in 9 consecutive trials going high in class each time. You can pretty much anything with any dog if you're dedicated. 







Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


----------



## 3gatos (Nov 28, 2012)

I don't separate my cats from the dog when I'm away either, they are actually all locked in a room together and dash out when I come home 
That is about to change though (not because there has been a problem) but the cats are going to start toilet training so need access to the bathroom. I wish my bathroom and bedroom were connected, but unfortunately they are not. So I will have to kitty proof the living room/kitchen. The dog yes into things when I'm gone, so he will have to remain in the bedroom


----------



## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

I think it's all a matter of knowing the dog(s) and the cat(s). I have 2 friends who have had cats killed by their dog. One situation was sheer negligence, 4 month old kitten left alone with a Stafforshire Bull Terrier and an English Bull Terrier (both known to have high prey drive). They had been kept separated to that point but the husband didn't feel like crating the dogs when he had to run down to the convenience store. 

The other was a beagle mix that had lived with multiple cats for years. There were two dogs, brothers and one was very protective of the other. The more timid one had a scratch on his nose. Best guess was that the cat and dog got into it somehow, the protector came to the rescue.

I have a customer that rehomed her chihuahua because he constantly chased her 3 cats and made their life ****....and she got him as a puppy. Another customer who misses her cats because they never come out of the bedroom since she got her dog (also as a puppy). On the other hand, I hear plently of stories of cats and dogs getting along fine. 

I was extremely diligent about making sure I picked the right dog. I knew that my cats are all outgoing enough to accept a dog if he didn't chase. I chose an adult that was known to be fine with cats...he was in foster for 2 months and lived with 2 cats. In addition, while he's a mutt, the breeds that are potentially in him are all known to be good with cats, no guarantees of course, but another piece of info to help establish the comfort level. Foster mom said he was great with them. Fortunately she was completely honest with me. For the most part he ignores them, doesn't chase, is polite...gives them plenty of space. I do leave them alone together, but took 4-5 months of observing before I did. 

So I'm of the opinion that if you want to minimize the risk, you get an adult that is already known to be good with cats. If you get a breed that is known to have a low prey drive, so much the better. And you need to know your cat...if it's nervous to begin with, it won't matter what dog you get, it will be a problem.


----------



## hoofmaiden (Sep 28, 2009)

Carmel said:


> As far as I'm concerned, that's like saying I could never leave the house because something - anything is _possible_ - could go wrong while I'm gone.


I can't agree. I am not a worrier by nature, but I have a lot of experience with dogs, both as owner and professional trainer, as well as a lot of experience w/ cats, and I know that there is often a very thin line, even in the most apparently peaceful scenarios, between OK and not OK. I am a big believer in MANAGING animals' behavior to minimize risk. No one is hurt by the dogs being outside or in one room when I am gone--it is simple to do, the animals don't care, and I don't see a need to take a risk, however small, just so I can say that I do it. <shrug>

My dogs are some of the best w/ cats I know. Here are a few examples:

Rachel and Calvin:











Sam (the one who participated in killing the stray cat) with Jonah as a kitten:









Daniel (the other stray cat killer) and Jonah, his fave kitty:











They all get along beautifully--the only problem, as I said, is with Erik who is semi-feral and doesn't fully trust ME, let alone a hyper puppy, but I manage that situation carefully and it's improving.

Anyway, obviously to each his/her own. If you feel OK trusting cats and dogs together w/ out supervision, that's great. I'm warning those who are interested in hearing it that IMHO doing so is taking a risk. Stuff happens all throughout life that we cannot prevent--my goal is to prevent from happening things that, were they to happen, I would have ONLY MYSELF to blame.


----------



## builder (Sep 2, 2012)

I do confine my dogs to the kitchen breakfast area when I’m gone, but only because my Beagle will sneak upstairs to eat out of the littler box when no one is around otherwise I have absolutely no fears. The cats do have access to the dogs at all times by simply jumping over the counter and they do visit and sleep with the dogs when we are not home.


----------



## SamSim (Oct 7, 2012)

Wow, so much good info on this topic here! I think some good points I read were:

1) Maybe stay away from the notion of the entire breed having to be good with cats and focus on the individual dog you are interested in
2) You have to know your dogs personality and your cats personality

If Jazzy is a no nonsense adult type cat, she may REALLY dislike a little ball of energy ripping around your house (which a new pup or an adult agility-type breed of dog will likely be doing). My meenu is just like that, and she has a lot of trouble with small dogs and puppies. We fostered a collie mix pup that just had such a high herding instinct (as well as that "dumb/inquisitive" puppy mentality), and came REALLY close to getting meenu in her mouth since meenu had a "hiss and run" technique.

The best dog we had for our no-nonsense cat was buddy, a malmute shepherd cross, and he was a BIG buddy. All 92 lbs of him! And Meenu was fine with him, he didnt try to play with her, and she grew to trust him enough to run around and play with her ball in the same room as him. He was a lower energy large breed dog that did not have a chase/herd instinct (had NO insterest in playing ball lol).

But if Jazzy seems to like playmates, she may do just fine with any little rascal that will tumble and roll around on the carpet with her/him. Personally, I dont think dogs were meant to be small, so I would never purchase a small breed, each one I have met were the most ill-behaved dogs, except shitzus! Those guys seem pretty even-keel.

Also, just personally though, I would stay away from a dog that has an obvious prey/herd/hunt drive, because if Jazzy does decide that she/he has had enough and decides to high tail it out of the room, all you need is your new pooch to take that as an invitation to play catch me if you can. You may want to look into a mixed breed that still has a higher energy to play those agility-type games you want to do, but is mellow enough in the house to not see Jazzy as the next ball he has to jump over hurdles to catch!

Good Luck and let us know what happens!!


----------



## Zilla (Oct 29, 2012)

Herding dogs don't necessarily have a high prey/kill drive.... Maybe just a high chase/herd anything drive :lol: Shelties are usually quiet and reserved dogs and they do agility. Or at least the ones I've met are.... And any dog can do agility.... But obviously the ones with the natural talent are the herding dogs.... 


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Carmel (Nov 23, 2010)

Seeing as the OP has yet to post back here... I guess they've been scared off? Haha.

It'd be nice to know if they were trying to do agility really seriously and competitively or just as a thing to do; if the latter (highly likely, as they're currently in school) then I'd say just get a regular dog, they can all do agility. The key is the hours and hours of training. A regular dog would be better in fact, since a high energy dog is not ideal if you don't have tons of time daily to dedicate to its exercise needs, they can get destructive when bored.


----------



## Zilla (Oct 29, 2012)

Your beagles do agility?? Awe how cute. I've always thought of going back to my roots and wanting to get a hound but I didn't figure they were very smart/trainable and I don't know how well a coonhound would do in a house.... We used to have blue ticks. I had one that was a blue tick walker English mix of some sort. He had the black saddle back blue ticking up top and red ticking down his legs. He was gorgeous and I've always wanted another except in my house as a pet and not as a hunter.... 

Ps I think the op got scared away :lol:


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Alex Harris (May 4, 2012)

I have a Cattle Dog now who is good with the cats,but it did take slow introductions at first. Jack Russells may also be a good candidate for what you are looking for. How good a dog is with cats/kids,depends more on the individual dog,not the breed.


----------



## Zilla (Oct 29, 2012)

I can deal with food motivated. My dog was the smartest ever when it came to teaching basic sit stay down rollover commands but he would only do it for food :lol: only thing he would do without food was fetch and that was it. Thanks for the insight! I was leaning towards a GSD but now I'm not so sure cuz like I said I loved my coonhound I had when I was younger. You never ever see them out and about as pets.... Just in someone's back yard as a hunter.... Does daniel have a protective side too? 


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Zilla (Oct 29, 2012)

I didn't mean like aggressive protective. I meant like does he let you know when someone's here or something's lurking outside :lol: I'd love to hear a coonhound bawl again. I think it's awesome 


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Carmel (Nov 23, 2010)

Can you take my neighbour's Basset then?  Seriously baying at everything in sight. You have to muzzle him to make him stop. So untrained it is unbelievable. He's jumped on a table and stolen food right in front of me more than once. The first thing he does when coming home is run into the kitchen with his nose in the air. He drools rivers. He's peed on me once, and when he was in my house, peed on a couch in under a minute of being in there; he doesn't pee in the neighbour's house, so what's that about?! The plus to his name is he is _so gentle_ and yet started taking on a German Shepard when it was (play?) chasing our dog, who thought she was about to be eaten.

I know hounds are... strong willed... but my definition of is a dog is one that wants to please and won't take 50+ repetitions to learn what I want. The quarter Poodle mix we have learned how to crawl in less than 5 minutes and learned to ask to jump on my lap after only two corrections. On the intelligence scale I read Bassets and Beagles are extremely low; that doesn't mean they aren't great dogs, they're so gentle! And as one dog intelligence rater said, he owns a Beagle despite this because they're so passive and forgiving, great assets around kids. 

But anyway, I want a cat for a pet that only does something when it wants.


----------



## Carmel (Nov 23, 2010)

As far as the neighbour's dog goes, she's tried a lot to control him.

I've found it on a few scales.

The Intelligence of Dogs
And this is an extended list that will show the Beagle and Basset: The Intelligence of Dogs – The LIST

When you search for dog intelligence list online, this is usually the first and most widely used list for an intelligence meter.

As far as a Terrier goes, they're different than a Hound I've found, and I trained ours even when I was quite young and the dog was quite old.


----------



## Zilla (Oct 29, 2012)

> I agree! And yes, Daniel bays loudly when ANYTHING (man, beast, or fowl) comes w/ in his purview. Fortunately, I live in the boonies and no one cares. I think his voice is lovely!


Awe!! I love that sound!!! And I'd love to have a coonhound again and have my neighbors ask whats that god awful baying sound comin from your house sometimes??? :lol: Its music to my ears! Id rather hear that bawl over any yappy dog!



> I've found it on a few scales.
> 
> The Intelligence of Dogs
> And this is an extended list that will show the Beagle and Basset: The Intelligence of Dogs – The LIST


I have no idea what "scale" that is. But since when is the Australian Shepherd "average" and the Pomeranian an "excellent working dog" ?????? They need to maybe call this the Training for Idiots scale and adjust the rankings a little... Meaning the easiest dogs that everyone can train are at the top. Like hoofmaiden said some dogs take different methods and it doesnt mean they are "dumb" or unintelligent at all. It just means they are smart enough NOT to listen to you. Like she said you have to make it worth their while. My ex-boyfriends friend had a Pitbull/Presa mix of some sort named Romeo and I sh*t you not it was and still is the smartest dog I've ever met in my life. He could do a million things! You could literally ask him any combination of numbers up to ten. Like whats 2 + 4 and he would bark 6 times. ANY COMBO of numbers it didnt matter. It AMAZED me. I was so floored when I met this dog... And his friend wasnt a professional dog trainer either. Just a normal guy who took the time to really train his dog. The dog wouldnt do anything for free either. You had to make it worth for him. Just like hounds... and any other stubborn dogs. Doesnt mean they are dumb just means they are a challenge to train if you dont know what your doing....


----------



## Carmel (Nov 23, 2010)

I don't know about it being for a working dogs, it's just factoring in their eagerness to please and how fast they will likely succeed in obedience training.

The full list itself even states:

_The drawback of this rating scale, by the author’s own admission, is that it is heavily weighted towards obedience related behavioural traits (e.g. working or guard dogs), rather than understanding or creativity (e.g. hunting dogs).

_ _As a result, some breeds may appear lower on the list due to their stubborn or independent nature, but this nature does not make them unintelligent or impossible to train. The book includes other sections on hunting and other intelligence types, as well a general IQ test that owners can perform on their dogs; that test is better weighted for ingenuity and independent problem solving, but rankings were provided only for working intelligence, and are listed below._

Overall it seems fairly accurate to me, your experiences obviously may differ.


----------



## Zilla (Oct 29, 2012)

Didn't see that part. But that's good they put it in there. However.... I thought Aussies were like border collies??! Am I wrong? 


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Carmel (Nov 23, 2010)

As far as I know they can have several similar characteristics as they're both high energy and herding oriented, but that doesn't mean everything about them is similar, they are different breeds. I've never owned either so I couldn't say for sure.

The "working intelligence" means the rate of responsiveness to human commands, not its overall intelligence or its intelligence at "working dog" type behaviors... the Wikipedia article mentions: 

_Coren defines three aspects of dog intelligence in the book: instinctive intelligence, __adaptive intelligence, and __working and obedience intelligence. Instinctive intelligence refers to a dog's ability to perform the tasks it was bred for, such as herding, pointing, fetching, guarding, or supplying companionship. Adaptive intelligence refers to a dog's ability to solve problems on its own. Working and obedience intelligence refers to a dog's ability to learn from humans._


----------



## Konotashi (Oct 20, 2010)

I have a Pomeranian who had never really been around cats until he was over a year old.
Not only is he good with cats, but he LOVES them. However, he'll leave a kitty alone if they don't want his attention.

He's active (and excels in) flyball, and I'll be putting him into agility next year.
He loves kids and is awesome with just about everyone. His only drawback is he can be selective with the men he likes.
That being said, I have zero doubts that an ex bf of mine was less than nice to him when I wasn't around. (And I broke up with him because he put me in a choke hold one day, and I will NOT put up with that!!)
I only say that because he seems to have issues with men that resemble him. He's not aggressive toward them, just scared.

You can look up flyball videos of him. His channel is MrOzzyPom.

ETA: My little man LIVES to please me. He's a very smart and inquisitive lil feller.
He perks up and gets excited when I start issuing commands to him. Very eager to please, super ball drive, loves to learn, and he learns FAST.


----------



## jadis (Jul 9, 2011)

I haven't read through all the suggestions, but I have shelties and they are great with my cats. They are versitile dogs, they are easy to train and will be as energetic as you are, from agility to laying on the couch, mine just want to do what I do. They are not as herdy as border collies...I have one of those too and he sometimes fixates on the cats, stares at them and follows them, but has never shown any aggression. The downside with shelties is they tend to bark alot and that might be upsetting to cats that have never been around a dog. None of mine have known life without dogs, so it doesn't seem to bother them.

Whatever breed or mix you go with, I would suggest either a puppy or a dog that has been in a previous home or foster home with cats.

Oh, and I DO separate my cats and dogs when I am going to be out for a while, like when I go to work. Mostly to give the cats some dog free time, I really don't think mine would ever hurt the cats but I also believe you can never be 100% sure.


----------



## 3gatos (Nov 28, 2012)

Carmel said:


> Can you take my neighbour's Basset then?  Seriously baying at everything in sight. You have to muzzle him to make him stop. So untrained it is unbelievable. He's jumped on a table and stolen food right in front of me more than once. The first thing he does when coming home is run into the kitchen with his nose in the air. He drools rivers. He's peed on me once, and when he was in my house, peed on a couch in under a minute of being in there; he doesn't pee in the neighbour's house, so what's that about?! The plus to his name is he is _so gentle_ and yet started taking on a German Shepard when it was (play?) chasing our dog, who thought she was about to be eaten.
> 
> I know hounds are... strong willed... but my definition of is a dog is one that wants to please and won't take 50+ repetitions to learn what I want. The quarter Poodle mix we have learned how to crawl in less than 5 minutes and learned to ask to jump on my lap after only two corrections. On the intelligence scale I read Bassets and Beagles are extremely low; that doesn't mean they aren't great dogs, they're so gentle! And as one dog intelligence rater said, he owns a Beagle despite this because they're so passive and forgiving, great assets around kids.
> 
> But anyway, I want a cat for a pet that only does something when it wants.


That sounds like a basset for ya! Except the peeing thing. He was probably marking you (and everything else) as his territory! :yikes

Since he lives at your neighbor's he probably has marked that stuff too (yuck) and now knows it is his! And your definition of a dog is much different than other people's definition. I myself, wouldn't get a dog under 25 lbs, but that's just me. Different strokes, for different folks ;-)


----------



## Konotashi (Oct 20, 2010)

3gatos said:


> And your definition of a dog is much different than other people's definition. I myself, wouldn't get a dog under 25 lbs, but that's just me. Different strokes, for different folks ;-)



Okay, the "Dogs under___ lbs aren't dogs!" mentality irks and infuriates me.
My 13 lb. Pom is more of a dog than some 150 lb dogs I've known.

My 13 lb Pom has sport titles under his belt. I know so many dogs that people would consider a 'real dog' who only participate in the sport of couch-warming.

I can take my dog out in public. He minds his manners, knows his boundaries, listens better than most HUMANS listen to one another, and I could go on and on.

I'm sorry, but my POMERANIAN is far more of a "dog" than some Great Danes and Mastiffs I know!
Weight is NOT what makes a dog a "real dog."

Okay.

Rant over.


----------



## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

Konotashi said:


> Okay, the "Dogs under___ lbs aren't dogs!" mentality irks me.


Me too....while there are lots of yappy little dogs that irritate me and I wouldn't give house space to. There are also plenty of very cool little dogs, Jake being one of them. Can't paint the entire class with the same brush.


----------



## Galathiel (Feb 6, 2012)

A willingness to please isn't a sign of lesser intelligence either. The dogs that can 'take' aversive training also do wonderfully well with positive.


----------



## Carmel (Nov 23, 2010)

3gatos said:


> And your definition of a dog is much different than other people's definition. I myself, wouldn't get a dog under 25 lbs, but that's just me. Different strokes, for different folks ;-)


This is an infuriating attitude that's far too common. I want a dog that will listen to commands through usual methods (I don't ascribe to clicker training; if that works for you and you prefer it then fantastic) ... but I'm uncertain how a dog's _size_ has any bearing on them being more or less like the type of dog you desire. A dog of any size can have the characteristics you want, unless you're after some big protective guard dog.

I would be open to owning a larger dog myself, despite that I never have, but bearing that they're more expensive to own (more food - wouldn't be able to feed wet food, larger toys, more expensive clips and vet care) and often need more space and higher fences and often don't live as long, I'm happy with a smaller dog that is just as capable of partaking in activities a 100 pound dog can do. Actually, Great Danes are one of the most laid back dogs there is, very low energy dogs that could even work in an apartment. If I wanted a huge dog, that'd be it, as they're so mellow.


----------



## Konotashi (Oct 20, 2010)

Mr. Murphy would find it offensive that people only think big dogs can be guard dogs.


----------



## Zilla (Oct 29, 2012)

That video was the cutest thing I ever seen. I almost died laughing.... :lol: what a ferocious little booger of a dog hahaha he would put some police dogs to shame lol 


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Arianwen (Jun 3, 2012)

My dogs have varied dramatically in size - from smallish (but not toy) terriers to a Great Dane x springer but I walk for miles every day over pretty rough hill country and I would be afraid for one of the mini breeds because we have lots of small geological faults and other problems - working breeds in its widest sense tend to suss them out better.


----------



## Zephyriddle (Mar 28, 2012)

hoofmaiden said:


> Yes, of course that's true to a point.
> 
> My point was to defend the non-traditional obed breeds. As a pro dog trainer I've trained a LOT of dogs and honestly, I much prefer working w/ dogs who are not quite so desperate to "please," but who are more willing to experiment and try new behaviors. It can be difficult to get some breeds to offer behaviors b/c they are so worried about getting it "wrong." And willingness to try new behaviors is not only critical to clicker training--it's also a sign of the kind of intelligence *I* prefer to work with.


Totally agree. Within minutes I've had clients' dogs offering new behaviors and catching on when their owners called saying that Rover was impossible to train. It's awesome to watch an owner realize that their dog is actually very clever, they just weren't communicating properly. 
I'm starting to see way more non traditional breeds competing around here. I compete with danes, and our last obedience trial had an afghan, a chihuahua, a Samoyed and a newf. 


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


----------



## coyt (Jul 15, 2012)

hoofmaiden said:


> Again: This is very like with cats. It is utterly impossible to train a cat using aversive methods. But using clicker training they can learn EVERYTHING that dogs can learn-including sit, down, fetch, and running an agility course!


Do you have any good resources for clicker training cats?


----------

