# Message to all breeders - PLEASE READ



## talula379 (Jul 5, 2004)

I thought I'd throw my two cents into the ring. I work at an Animal Shelter that currently is housing around 75 cats and kittens (not to mention quite a few dogs as well). I've always been curious if those who breed their animals are oblivious to the statistics or truly don't care about the welfare of animals. Consider some of these facts released by the Humane Society of the United States:

-In seven years one female cat and her young can produce 420,000 kittens.
-Every day in the US, tens of thousands of puppies and kittens are born. Compare this to the 11,000 human births each day, and you can see that there can never be enough homes for all these pets.
-Spaying and neutering help pets live longer and healthier lives, and reduces the risk of health problems cats can develop including certain types of cancer.

I urge you, if you consider yourselves true cat lovers, think of why you breed. Sure, kittens are cute and purebreds are beautiful. But take a trip down to your local animal shelter and think of all of the cats and kittens that already are waiting for homes. Think of what might happen to them if someone chooses to adopt from you rather than take home an older less-than-purebred cat from the shelter. Can you live with the fact that one of your kitten's kittens might end up in a place like that - loved by staff but ignored by the public and forever denied a loving home? I don't mean to get preachy but it just seems to me that breeders don't seem to understand the large-scale long-term consequences of their actions. I would love to hear back from everyone who reads this - I am not closed minded and want to hear what you think of this. Although I would love to change minds please try to change mine as well. I'd love to get a discussion going.

Thank you for listening,
talula379


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## DylansMummy (May 23, 2004)

I agree and I don't agree at the same time...

Breeders breed cats not for the **** of it, they do so because of demand. I have yet to meet a breeder who doesn't find a home for a litter of kittens and if for some reason some of the litter cannot go to a new home they keep them (assuming they are good well established breeders anyway). The show ring and other breeders and lovers of breeds mean that purebreds will never NOT be in demand.

However I do not understand why some cat owners do NOT spay and neuter when they obviously have no intention of breeding legitmately. 

I personally own a purebred and do so because of the nature of the breed and also because I would like to have a go at showing when he is older. I have previously owned a "moggy" cat and maybe will do again someday, but I think it's a tad unfair to start bashing breeders. 

Good breeders care for the cats they own and wish to better the breed. Programmes are set and followed to ensure that no cat/kitten is harmed or left without a home. This I think should be respected.

and thats my tuppence worth  lol

Hayley x


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## jonsgirl (Nov 7, 2003)

I agree with with Dylansmummy....if you are NOT a * legitimate* breeder then you should spay or neuter your cat. Of course there are those "crazy" folks that run puppy mills and stuff like that but thats a whole different story. 

The many points that talula brought up reiterate this. I dont see any reason for people to keep their animals unaltered.


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## queen of the nile (Aug 16, 2003)

I just want to assert first that this is just my opinion. I honestly feel that *no one* should breed until the cat overpopulation problem is under control. I know that purebreds are beautiful, but I feel it is selfish for people to breed cats. I understand that it is noble for people to want to breed in order to better that breed of cat, but I feel it is far nobler to focus on animal rescue and finding the unwanted cats homes first. I feel that for every kitten produced by a breeder, that is one kitten from a shelter that is being denied a home. I understand that my opinion may seem harsh, but they put down 20 cats a week in my home town. All of them are wonderful, beautiful animals but there just isn't enough room.


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## Payge (May 12, 2004)

I disagree, breeders perform a valuable service. With shelter cats (and no im not against shelter cats, I got Chaos from a very high-kill shelter) you don't know a lot of things about the cat you are getting, what their parents personalities and health inssues were for instance. With breeders (good breeders, I assume we arent discussing puppy and kitty mills) you get to actually see and meet the parents, you know what breed you are getting and what the typical behaviors/personalities etc they will most likely exibit. 

I for one love the uniqueness of each and every cat breed, if breeders were to all stop doing what they do there really wouldnt be any cat "breeds" any more, they would all be a mish mosh of everything. As with dogs, cats usually have a certain temperment etc associated with the breed, someone looking for a laid back cat for instance would head towards the persians etc, someone looking for a kitteny cat thats always ready to play would go for a bengal.

I truly believe in what the shelters/humane societies are doing, I regularly donated to the humane society in charlotte, BUT I don't think its fair to start bashing the breeders and making them feel guilty for doing somthing to better a breed and preserve the uniqueness that is each breed of cat. 

The biggest part of the problem is people who are irresponsible pet owners, the ones who get a cat out of a box outside the grocery store when its a kitten cause its cute, feed it supermarket off brand crap, never take it to the vet, never get it spayed/neutered, then dump it somewhere when they get tired of it and its no longer a kitten. Until you stop THOSE people, please don't even try and make me or anyone else feel guilty for wanting to be a responsible breeder.


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## queen of the nile (Aug 16, 2003)

Please don't think I am trying to make reputable breeders feel guilty. I am not "bashing" anyone. I've already stated that it is just my opinion and in no way am I trying to change your mind. It's just how *I* feel and so *I* would definately never consider breeding or getting a purebred from a breeder. It goes against *my* values. I don't expect anyone else to feel the same as you are entitled to your own opinion.


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## Padunk (Oct 20, 2003)

While some of your points may be sensible, I don't think it's fair to call out all breeders and say they don't care about the well-being of animals. 

While it's true that breeders don't necessarily help the cat overpopulation problem, they really don't make a dent when it comes to the massive numbers of animals that are euthanized every day. I think more energy, time, effort, and money needs to be spent on educating the general public about spaying and neutering their pets rather than let them run free and breed many times over.

Besides, if breeders were to stop breeding, what happens if (that's a big if) the cat overpopulation problem is solved? What happens to all of those beautiful breeds?

On a personal note, while I absolutely adore certain purebred cats, (Siamese, Tonkinese, and Maine ****'s to name a few...) I'm not sure I could actually purchase one from a breeder. I _know_ those cats will find homes simply because of how much they are "worth". I'd rather save shelter kitties and those poor cats that are "free to a good home". :?


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## Sol (Feb 20, 2003)

I personally think that breeders do a lot of good. I breed myself, I live in Sweden and we do not have the same problems with homeless cats as you do do in the US. 

Personally I breed healthy cats and I've adopted one homeless cat (I don't dare to adopt more moggies since I'm allergic, I breed Devon Rex). But I do help my local shelter with money and food and I inform all of my buyers that they have to neuter their cats and 'til this day all of the cats that's not been sold to breeders have been neutered.

Breeders don't only work in one way (producing kittens). I know many breeders who adopt cats from shelters and they help shelters in many other ways.

Breeders and shelters can work together and I believe that's the best solution.


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## Ioana (Jul 12, 2003)

I agree with Queen of the Nile on this issue and just like her I don't mean to be harsh at all. 
If the process stopped a lot of the people that adopt the purebreads will turn their heads and adopt from shelter. And as for the cat's background -when we adopt a pet we should take full responsability and work with them. They are as children - we need to impose limits by offering alternatives to destructive behaviour. There are so many sites, so much material with information on how to train our pets so it is all about the effort we are willing to put in in order to better our relationship with our pet 
I also do not find any excuse for anybody that abandons or puts their animal to sleep unless it is an extreme situation and all possibilities of saving the pet are opted out - it is heartbreaking to see pets going from home to home and then back to the shelter because it didn't work out. Everybody should put into balance the pros and the cons before adopting so it would save the animal a lot of stress.

There is not enough money or interest at this point to invest into saving the cats at the shelters so while others are bread the unfortunate ones are being put to sleep or lead miserable lives because of irresponsible ownership that lead them to live in the streets or shelters. 
After all this situation is solved the breeding process can be started over - especially in countries like the USA where there are so many "homeless"cats
Please have in mind that I am thinking about the cats while expressing my point of view - I don't mean to hurt anybody's feelings


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## cheesensweets (Oct 31, 2003)

I also agree with the original poster as well. This has been a HUGE pet peeve of mine for quite a while. Personally, I would never "pay" for a cat and have always gotten my cats from a shelter. Sure, I don't know the parents or their behavior, etc. but I took my chances because my heart was in it to rescue them and provide a loving home. I had one rough experience with a cat I adopted from a shelter about 17 years ago. Upon bringing him to the vet's for a checkup soon after adopting him, it was discovered that he was infested with fleas and they were just about sucking the blood right out of him. After a one-day stay at the veternarian's office, he came home and grew to be a wonderful cat. Did I care that I spent money to get him the proper care he needed? Absoutely not. Did I care that he wasn't "perfect"? No way. Would I do it again? Most definitely. If it's in your heart to truly help animals, you will find a way. It doesn't matter where the cat has been, really, it matters where its future lies. 

Regarding breeding because it is "in demand", I personally think it's a shame. There are a lot of things in demand in this world but it doesn't make it right. Heroin is in demand - does that make it right for addicts to use it, buy it off the streets, etc? Designer babies are in demand. Again, does it make it right to do it just because of that reason? Talk a walk around an animal shelter and you'll see the word "demand" in a whole different perspective.

I also agree that not enough emphasis is out there regarding spaying and neutering animals. I think some people are just utterly clueless or just don't care at all. They think it's "cute" to have a kitten and then think it's "cute" that they let it go outside and the next thing you know, the cat comes home pregnant. Or the people who let their cat get pregnant so the cat can "experience motherhood". I personally want to choke these people. 

For some people, perhaps it's monetary reasons that keep them from getting their cat fixed. Who knows. If the money spent on breeding was put towards efforts to help fix more cats perhaps we wouldn't have such over-populated shelters. It breaks my heart to think of how many cats are put to sleep each day because they're not "pure" and just not "good enough". 


I think I'll go home and hug my "shelter" kitties extra tonight.


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## queen of the nile (Aug 16, 2003)

Padunk, I hope you were not referring to my post when you stated this:


Padunk said:


> While some of your points may be sensible, I don't think it's fair to call out all breeders and say they don't care about the well-being of animals.


I never said they don't care about the well-being of animals, I just don't agree with breeding because the cat population is out of control. What I mean by selfish of course, is probably different than your definition. Just as I feel it is selfish to breed cats, I also feel it is selfish to not volunteer or to spend money on extravagant things when so many people are starving. (My boyfriend and I had an arguement where I refused to ever install expensive wood bannisters in a house because I'd rather use the money to feed the hungry :lol: )


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## doodles (Jun 4, 2004)

*[b]Re: Message to all breeders [/b]- PLEASE READ*



talula379 said:


> I thought I'd throw my two cents into the ring. I work at an Animal Shelter that currently is housing around 75 cats and kittens (not to mention quite a few dogs as well). I've always been curious if those who breed their animals are oblivious to the statistics or truly don't care about the welfare of animals.
> 
> I urge you, if you consider yourselves true cat lovers, think of why you breed. Sure, kittens are cute and purebreds are beautiful. But take a trip down to your local animal shelter and think of all of the cats and kittens that already are waiting for homes. Think of what might happen to them if someone chooses to adopt from you rather than take home an older less-than-purebred cat from the shelter. Can you live with the fact that one of your kitten's kittens might end up in a place like that - loved by staff but ignored by the public and forever denied a loving home? I don't mean to get preachy but it just seems to me that breeders don't seem to understand the large-scale long-term consequences of their actions. I would love to hear back from everyone who reads this - I am not closed minded and want to hear what you think of this. Although I would love to change minds please try to change mine as well. I'd love to get a discussion going.
> 
> ...


* I work at an Animal Shelter that currently is housing around 75 cats and kittens (not to mention quite a few dogs as well).*

I wish our shelter could house that many cats. We have room for eight in cages and three or four in the small "play room". Of course, up to three kittens can be in a cage - but then that bumps the adults off the adoption floor.

*I've always been curious if those who breed their animals are oblivious to the statistics or truly don't care about the welfare of animals.
*

Some are - some don't. Responsible, ethical breeders aren't among those.



*I urge you, if you consider yourselves true cat lovers, think of why you breed.*

Ethical, responsible breeders work to keep lines true, to further the advancement of a breed, and to offer quality pets and show hopefuls. If there were no responsible breeders how would any true, good breed line survive?



*But take a trip down to your local animal shelter and think of all of the cats and kittens that already are waiting for homes.*

Breeders do "make" animals, though it is rarely true that the breeder is responsible for placing an animal in a shelter because there was no home available for it. Sure, BYBs do, but I'm speaking of the responsible, ethical breeders. This is one of those grey areas: Should a breeder be responsible for an animal being put in a shelter? If so, should the euthanasia tech be responsible for the animals death? There is a "middleman" - namely, the owner of the animal.




*Can you live with the fact that one of your kitten's kittens might end up in a place like that - loved by staff but ignored by the public and forever denied a loving home?*

I have to ask, without meaning to be harsh - why does the responsibility (as projected by your post and feelings shown) land on the breeder and not the owner that surrenders the animal?



*I don't mean to get preachy but it just seems to me that breeders don't seem to understand the large-scale long-term consequences of their actions.*

This is a VERY blanket statement that could be extremely offensive to many breeders. Why do you consider all breeders equal when it comes to the way they handle their breeding practices?

......


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## doodles (Jun 4, 2004)

queen of the nile said:


> I just want to assert first that this is just my opinion. I honestly feel that *no one* should breed until the cat overpopulation problem is under control. I know that purebreds are beautiful, but I feel it is selfish for people to breed cats. I understand that it is noble for people to want to breed in order to better that breed of cat, but I feel it is far nobler to focus on animal rescue and finding the unwanted cats homes first. I feel that for every kitten produced by a breeder, that is one kitten from a shelter that is being denied a home. I understand that my opinion may seem harsh, but they put down 20 cats a week in my home town. All of them are wonderful, beautiful animals but there just isn't enough room.


*I honestly feel that *no one* should breed until the cat overpopulation problem is under control.*

While I rarely see a reason to compare animals to humans, in this case consider this:

How many people adopt children because of their love for a child? How many people refuse to adopt a child and resort to all measures to have their own because thats what they want? 

If I were dead set on having a certian breed and knew it would be the *last* cat I'd ever have a chance to own _noone_ would be able to convince me to take another kind. I would rather wait it out until what I wanted became available to me.

Surely I'm not the only one in the world that thinks that way - with people of that mindset, how many cats do you think would actually be adopted if a ban were temporarily put on breeding? How many of those adopted, do you suppose, would be abandoned or surrendered once kittens of breeds wanted were available again?


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## doodles (Jun 4, 2004)

Padunk said:


> While some of your points may be sensible, I don't think it's fair to call out all breeders and say they don't care about the well-being of animals.
> 
> While it's true that breeders don't necessarily help the cat overpopulation problem, they really don't make a dent when it comes to the massive numbers of animals that are euthanized every day. I think more energy, time, effort, and money needs to be spent on educating the general public about spaying and neutering their pets rather than let them run free and breed many times over.
> 
> ...


*On a personal note, while I absolutely adore certain purebred cats, (Siamese, Tonkinese, and Maine ****'s to name a few...) I'm not sure I could actually purchase one from a breeder. *

Keep in mind, there are breed rescues and sometimes breeders truely adopt out retired cats - I've seen them let go for the cost of spay/neuter fees.


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## Gabreilla Moushigo (Jun 14, 2004)

Doh... now I've got to say something, and keep in mind that my cat of 11 years is not a purebred animal... but I will be getting one soon.

I would never - EVER say to a breeder, a responsible breeder, to not breed any animals. I would hate it if suddenly we would lose all those beautiful cats. That is just punishing the people who actually CARE about their animals. The people who SHOULD be punished are people who let their cat or dog go unaltered and have kitten after kitten.

While I would never discourage someone from getting a pound kitty or puppy - I can't say I'll be heading there to get my next cat. I wouldn't mind rescuing an animal - as long as I knew and trusted the people who were giving her or him to me - and knew for certain that the cat was good.

As for banning purebred cats - which is pretty much the sugestion made from this post - how fair is it really? You would be FORCING people to get an animal - just because you wanted them to. What if I wanted to get a purebred kitty and someone said "No, sorry... how about this cat instead?" I'd probably wouldn't get one, because someone would be trying to MAKE me buy something I hadn't originally wanted. To be quite honest - I probably wouldn't own ANY pets if the government was telling me what animal to get and when to get it! 

It should be a choice! If you believe, or just find a cat that tugs at your heart at the pound - then purchase it. It shouldn't matter if the person next to you on the street has the same feelings or not. You made the difference by getting your cat neautered and saved him. You can only do so much - and if they want to get the cat population under control they are going to have to do one of two things: kill them off or spay/neauter them. Since killing is a poor solution - try putting the squeeze on idiots who don't get their cats spay/neautered. There is no reason to force people to stop breeding animals and keep responsible pet owners from owning pure breed cats.

Hope I made some kind of point - I get kind of ranty sometimes... *sigh* It just burns me up!


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## Padunk (Oct 20, 2003)

queen of the nile said:


> Padunk, I hope you were not referring to my post when you stated this:
> 
> 
> Padunk said:
> ...


No, I wasn't referring to you in the least bit.  The original poster said "_I've always been curious if those who breed their animals are oblivious to the statistics or truly don't care about the welfare of animals_" That's what I was referring to.


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## Padunk (Oct 20, 2003)

Please remember gang, this is a sensitive subject and both sides make valid points. Let's keep make sure it stays civil.


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## CyberPet (May 12, 2004)

I'm not a breeder, but I've owned both "regular house cats" and now pure bred cats. I must say the experience with both is making me more and more sure I did a right choice to get a Siamese. The temperament on these cats we have are exactly the temperament we wanted in a cat. Almost all house cats we've had were more or less wild and even if they came from domesitacted homes they aren't the same cats as we have at home now.

I made a consious choice to get this breed and I would never have gotten a cat if it weren't for this type of temperament. The homeless cats would still be homeless in other words, I wouldn't have taken a cat or a kitten from a shelter. I have too many bad experiences with other cats. Sure, I might have found a pure bed Siamese at a shelter, but it's not likely since most breeders have the buyer to sign a paper that the cat goes back to the breeder if you can't keep the cat for some reason. This means that the breeder can rehome the cat into a loving home instead of the cat ending up in a shelter and might be put down.

I think the solution to the over population of cats has to be in other ways than distance yourself from breeders, especially responsible breeders of pure breed cats. That's not where you start. Information to those who gets a cat is more important and also make the cats valued more than they are valued today. Neutered cats are good cats... and it would be a dream if more cats could get fixed without having to pay an arm and a leg (I know for some it's not big money, but for others it is). And even if you have a pure bred cat and don't plan on breed with it, neuter it.

OK, end of my rant.


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## Ioana (Jul 12, 2003)

I respect the other side of the story which is opposite to mine, however. My cats come from the yard, woods where they were found - and they have feral parents. Cheerio is still feral in some ways since we got her when she was well grown (as in not a little kitten). Plus I have a a huge experience from working with the ferals on this property and they can be tamed and worked with - with a lot of love and patience. But then again I have never had a pure bred so I don't know the difference in personality so cannot judge that. Plus I understand that people go for different looks as well. 

I agree with you Petra that this is not where we start but at least reducing the list to only reputable breeders (the ones that study genetics, cats' personalities - the ones that do their homework) would be a big step


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## Sol (Feb 20, 2003)

I'm curious. If breeding was banned and the plan would be that we start to breed once all homeless cats have founs new homes... what are we going to do with the breeding cats during that time? It's not healthy to keep a female fertile and not letting her have babies. To many "empty heats" causes pyometra (which I've just treated a cat for) and long term use of birth control pills for cats causes tumours. What should we do about this? Neuter/spay all fertile animals? We can't start breeding again if all cats have been neutered/spayed!

If we wanna keep our healthy blood lines we have to keep them active. Or is the plan that we start breeding moggies the day we have no homeless cats? We don't know anything about their genetical heritage. We don't know what hereditary defects or diseases they may carry. 

I can assure you all that non of the cats I've bred have ended up in a shelter. I'm always ready to take a cat back if the owner can't or just don't want to keep the cat and the owners know this and they are greatful for that.


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## Ioana (Jul 12, 2003)

Sol - now that you have explained in depth I can see more clearly. You are an ideal breeder.
I wish everybody would follow that path in the ethics of breeding a cat - that is to be dedicated, knowledgeable and caring. That would surely crop the list some more :wink:


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## Sol (Feb 20, 2003)

ioana said:


> Sol - now that you have explained in depth I can see more clearly. You are an ideal breeder.
> I wish everybody would follow that path in the ethics of breeding a cat - that is to be dedicated, knowledgeable and caring. That would surely crop the list some more :wink:


Thank you, I do my very best  I do understand the angle you have about not breeding since you in the US have a big problem with homeless cats. In Sweden we don't have the same problem so we try to work preventive.

It sounds easy just to stop breeding, but like I explained we always have to think one step ahead. Reduce the breeding, yes, but we can't stop totally.


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## sentimentalgirl (Jan 29, 2004)

Sol said:


> ioana said:
> 
> 
> > Sol - now that you have explained in depth I can see more clearly. You are an ideal breeder.
> ...


I haven't read everything what was said here but somehow I agree with both parties. 

I just walked by a house where there was a sign Himalayan cats for sale. I went to see them - just for curiousity. This lady told me that she had 9 kittens. They were 2 left. When I was there the 2 kittens were 8 weeks old. She told us the other 7 were sold very fast - at what age did she sell them? Shouldn't they still stay with the mother? Those were my questions in my head. I felt like she was trying to get rid of them ASAP. I was very dissapointed. 

I have to say, I would never buy a purebreed cat....

I'm not saying all breeders are bad BUT not all are good and not all care for the babies. 

That's just my opinion. 

I read that Toronto shelter is filled with kittens (around 400-500) at this time (some of them are fostered). They said, they have more kittens than ever before.... This shows that the problem is getting worse and not better. 
They lowered the prices for them and hope people will adopt some. It is very sad.....

One day you hear this, and second day you see this breeder who doesn't care too much about her kittens...


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## pijpehaut (Sep 26, 2004)

I read the statistics: in Holland there is 2% of purebred in the catpopulation. So when all the breeders stopped, you still got a problem of 98% left over.


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## spittles (Oct 24, 2003)

I too think that cats should not be bred. I know in dogs, 30% and up are purebreds. I just saw today on PetFinder a purebred AKC registered Siamese. She was beautiful, but only has 3 days to live  

Abhay


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## pijpehaut (Sep 26, 2004)

I think the situation in the States is different then in Western Europe, in our town there are no more then twenty cats in the cat-shelter. I am a regular visitor and I never saw a pure-bred....
A couple of weeks ago I talked to a "farmer" who said he had ten cats, sometimes more, sometimes less. He told me he had more then often kittens, but never saw them back when they grew up. HE is one to blame the cat-shelters are full, and I told him; he just smiled and walked away...


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## Sol (Feb 20, 2003)

When demanding a total stop of breeding we must ask us: who's the real problem.

Is it the reputable breeders or is it non breeders who just don't care about netureing/spaying and they couldn't care less about the homeless cats?

We must ask us if it will make any difference if the reputable breeders top breeding? For it to work, everyone wil have to stop breeding and I'm sorry guys but that's not gonna happen. People who don't care will keep on letting their cats reproduce. It's the ones who don't care who are the real problem.


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## spacemonkey (Aug 12, 2004)

Well said, Sol. I am caring for the four little results of a careless pregnancy. Am I mad at the person who allowed this? Yes. Do I wish people would stop doing this? Yes. Do I wish people would stop breeding?

No.

I, for one, fail to see any meanignful connection between the concientious breeding of purebred animals and the problem of pet overpopulation. Breeders (the _responsible_ ones, mind you) are the good guys, they're not the ones we have to be worried about.


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## ForJazz (Dec 30, 2003)

This is a great topic. I go back and forth on this all of the time. Sol and spacemonkey -- you made a great point, that being the lack of meaningful connection between the concientious breeding of purebred animals and the problem of pet overpopulation. I think a reputable breeder is equivalent to the biggest cat lover in the world, and that comes with knowledge of cats FAR past the average cat owner. Not many people can say that. I think the sad truth is, cat overpopulation will always exist, and it would exist even if purebred breeding was illegal. Because the fact is, you will never be able to educate and change the minds of the entire world as far as cats go. There will ALWAYS be people who feel that cats should be left in their natural state to do their natural business. Cats multiply MUCH faster than the demand for a pet can keep up with. While I think it is very sad that cats continue to multiply while others are dying in shelters or on the streets, I don't think extinction of purebreds is the answer. I think of a purebred cat the same as any other species of animal that we want to preserve, just like all the different wildcats, all of the different monkeys, etc. It is different, I admit, because the domestic cat is overpopulated, but I think of them as valuable creatures we should not extinct. 

Another VERY strong statement from this thread was made by cheesensweets -- that being that "walking through a shelter puts the word DEMAND in an entirely different perspective." I really agree with that. Every time I go into a shelter I can't imagine getting one from a breeder. That is the truth. But another truth is, there will always be demand for a purebred cat. If it happened one day that no purebred cats existed, that doesn't mean that shelter cats and stray cats and feral cats will be any less overpopulated. People who want purebreds, want purebreds. They just feel better about bringing a predictable animal into their specific household. Example: a person with allergies can have a Siberian. I just don't think that taking away purebreds will fix overpopulation, because the main reason people buy purebreds is this predictability. 

I'm not saying that I think everyone should just breed away. I agree with only those breeders who are HUGE cat lovers and cat experts, and are there to preserve and better the breed. Only because I think it's unrelated to overpopulation. I also think it's very sad that overpopulation thrives because of ignorance. I just think that the IGNORANCE is what should be persecuted. Because that is the cause, and that is the problem. And education is the only thing that can curb that.


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## pijpehaut (Sep 26, 2004)

Wow, well said!! I agree with every word on this one...


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## Luvit73 (Oct 6, 2004)

Reputable breeders are not responsible for the pet overpopulation . Why should breeding specific kinds of cats be banned ? People have spent years upon years , insuring the health/temperment/looks of pure breeds . I have never owned a purebred cat , but not because I like one over the other - I like cats (animals , for that matter) period . 
The real problem is like the farmer mentioned above , people that are NOT breeders letting their animals breed indiscriminately . If there is to be a solution , it will lie in passing strict laws regarding who can and cannot breed an animal , restricting not only who can do it , but also how many litters they are allowed to have , and perhaps needing to show proof of having homes already set up for them . The point is , until people who just dont give a crap are held liable for their actions , the problem will just continue - wether breeders are banned or not .


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## ForJazz (Dec 30, 2003)

Luvit73 said:


> The real problem is like the farmer mentioned above ...


Who is "the farmer"? Just curious -- I agreed with your post. But that threw me a bit.


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## Luvit73 (Oct 6, 2004)

pijpehaut said:


> I think the situation in the States is different then in Western Europe, in our town there are no more then twenty cats in the cat-shelter. I am a regular visitor and I never saw a pure-bred....
> A couple of weeks ago I talked to a "farmer" who said he had ten cats, sometimes more, sometimes less. He told me he had more then often kittens, but never saw them back when they grew up. HE is one to blame the cat-shelters are full, and I told him; he just smiled and walked away...


I was referring to this


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## Sam (Jul 8, 2003)

I agree that it's not the responsible breeders causing the problems, it's the irrisponsible people not desexing their cats. 

The reason I breed cats is to better the breed. We're very lucky our kittens are in hot demand. Most sold before they're born.


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## ForJazz (Dec 30, 2003)

Jenny, I just wanted to add something to the second type of breeder you mentioned. That being...there IS no profit for breeders who do it to better the breed and because they love cats. Those breeders do it the right way, with vet trips and the right supplies, plus the cost of breeding pairs, that adds up to no profit. The reason purebred cats are expensive is because the breeder spent at LEAST that much money to get the cats off on the right foot.


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

Jenny is absolutely right. In addition, if there were no responsible breeders, the Persian, the Siamese, the Birman, etc., would go the way of the endangered big cats. These breeders preserve the breed.

The breeders who breed for the love of money are causing an artificial shortgage for some breeds by charging exhorbitant amounts of money for their cats, so that they can make even more more money. Make sure you buy from the breeder who raises the kittens as much loved pets--in their home. I would never buy from a pet shop. That's where the kitty farms sell their cats. The worst of it is that you will pay more money at pet shops and from greedy breeders. But most people think bigger is better, and they think of the pet shops and kitten farms first. 

For those of you who think no cat should be bred, I do hope you are clicking on the Animal Rescue Site daily to feed a shelter animal, or do you assume someone else will do it? Or do you donate money or time to a shelter? I hope you'll help in some way. Your help is desperately needed. There will always be irresponsible pet owners, and the need for help will not stop--even if the breeders of registered animals (with ancestors which were healthy animals carrying excellent qualities--) stop breeding completely. The people who want cats will still get them, and, unlike knowledgable and responsible breeders, will allow them to breed until they die. Thanks for considering my post.


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## SiberianKitty (Dec 10, 2004)

I'm going to breed Siberian Cats sometime in the near future after I've received my training (apprenticeship to an already established breeder), have enough money, time and space. And nothing can change my mind from doing so. The lines still need to continue and the breed needs to be bred properly otherwise they may fade out. I'm going to be a responsible breeder for all of my kits and cats. I will do take backs if neccessary reguardless of age. All kits will be current on their vaccines, spayed/neutered and microchipped before going to their new homes. Queens are to be bred only once a year. I will also be doing show and agility with my Siberians.

However, I haven't forgotten about the ones in shelters. I'm going to build a few large outside-inside cattery for those older cats that nobody wants. And if someone is interested in one or a few of these cats and can provide a good stable home. I will have people adopt them. This is, of course, when I have my property.


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## spacemonkey (Aug 12, 2004)

Sounds like a well-thought out plan  And can I just say that your rabbit is *adorable*! :luv


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## ForJazz (Dec 30, 2003)

I LOOOOOVE Siberians. I would be super interested to see pictures of your cats when the time comes. Do you have Siberians now? I can't really tell from your signature. Go post pictures in the picture forum!


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