# dried liver treat



## nocturne123 (Apr 16, 2005)

is it ok to give a cat dried liver treat for dogs (pro-treat)? I gave some freeze dried beef liver treats for dogs to my dogs, and Pandora insisted she should get some, too. She happily ate one cube.

I'll be making some liver treat for the dogs soon, and it will be great if all animals could share.


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## Meowmie (Jun 4, 2005)

Since liver is so packed with nutrients here is some important information (from Jane R. Bicks DVM and other sources) you need to be aware of before you start supplementing your cat's diet with liver treats. 

Calcium, phosphorus and Vitamin A in a cat’s diet.

Without minerals, vitamins are virtually useless because they cannot be assimilated, and though cats can synthesize some vitamins in their bodies, they cannot manufacture a single mineral. 

*Calcium* is the mineral that, along with phosphorus, is most required in a cat’s diet. 

*Calcium must exist in the cat’s diet with approximately equal quantities of phosphorus (a calcium/phosphorus ratio of 1:1) to function properly. *
Calcium maintains strong teeth and bones and a healthy nervous system. 
For effective absorption and utilization, vitamin D must be present. 

Besides being vital for the formation of strong bones and teeth, calcium is also vitally important for the maintenance of healthy gums. 
Calcium is needed for muscular growth and contraction, and for the prevention of muscle cramps. 
Calcium is also essential in blood clotting and helps prevent cancer. 
It regulates blood pressure (very important for older animals whose kidneys are less efficient).
Calcium provides energy and participates in the protein structuring of RNA and DNA. 
It is also involved in the activation of several enzymes, including lipase, which breaks down fats for utilization by the body. 
In addition, calcium maintains proper cell membrane permeability, aids in neuromuscular activity and helps to keep the skin healthy. 
Calcium protects the body by inhibiting absorption of lead, which is a highly toxic metal.

*Phosphorus* is needed for bone and tooth formation, cell growth, contraction of the heart muscle and kidney function. It also assists the body in the utilization of vitamins and the conversion of food to energy. 
*A proper balance of magnesium, calcium, and phosphorus should be maintained at all times. If one of these minerals is present either in excessive or insufficient amounts, this will have adverse effects on the body.*
*Excessive amounts of phosphorus in the diet lead to a calcium deficiency.*
Deficiencies of phosphorus are rare and highly unlikely in view of widespread distribution in foods. Certain medical conditions can, however, induce low blood phosphate levels. 

*Recommended minimum daily allowances for cats:*

Calcium: 200 to 400 mg for an average healthy cat.

Phosphorus: 150 to 400 mg for an average healthy cat.

To protect a cat’s kidneys, which are responsible for gathering and distributing needed nutrients and eliminating harmful substances from the blood, the diet should contain high-quality proteins. The poorer the quality of the protein, the more work the kidneys must do. Conversely, more quality protein means less work for the kidneys. 

*Feeding foods with an inverse calcium/phosphorus ratio should be avoided.*

*Meat has about fifteen times more phosphorus than calcium. 
Some organ meats have thirty to fifty times as much. The imbalance can cause a cat serious harm.*

Some startling numbers:

Beef liver (3.5 oz)
Calcium: 8 mg 
Phosphorus: 476 mg 
(59.5 times more phosphorus than calcium)

Calf liver (3.5 oz)
Calcium: 13 mg
Phosphorus: 537 mg
(41.3 times more phosphorus than calcium) 

Chicken livers (3 medium)
Calcium: 16 mg
Phosphorus: 240 mg
(“only” 15 times more phosphorus than calcium)

Heart (3oz)
Calcium: 14 mg
Phosphorus: 203 mg
("only" 14.5 times more phosphorus than calcium)

Muscle meats:

Chicken (3.5 oz)
Calcium: 10 mg
Phosphorus: 220 mg

Beef (3 oz)
Calcium: 7-8 mg 
Phosphorus: 105-150 mg

Turkey (3.5 oz)
Calcium: 23 mg
Phosphorus: 320 mg

Do not attempt to overload your cat with calcium. This can result in bone abnormalities, as well as decreased absorption of zinc, iron, iodine and phosphorus. 

*Vitamin A*

Recommended minimum daily allowance for cats: 1,000 to 3,000 IU for an average healthy cat.

*1 ounce of calf or beef liver can contain 9,140 to 15,250 IU vitamin A. *

*Three medium chicken livers contain a whopping 32,200 IU vitamin A. *

Vitamin A is a fat-soluble vitamin. It is stored in the cat’s body in the liver and kidneys. Because of this, it doesn’t need daily replenishment and an oversupply (from too much liver for instance) will cause a toxic buildup, mainly in the liver. Such a toxic buildup will lead to serious health problems such as enlargement of the liver and/or spleen, gastrointestinal disturbances, abdominal pain, muscle degeneration, joint pain, reduced, painful, or crippling neck movement, abnormal walking, loss of appetite, dry itchy skin, hair loss, nausea and vomiting.
(In humans excessive amounts of vitamin A will also cause the most horrible headaches, usually a warning sign of long-term overdose.
People who eat polar bear liver die from the incredible amount of vitamin A in that liver.)

A couple of links:

http://www.fabcats.org/feeding.html

Key Nutritional Factors


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## Superkitties (Jan 30, 2004)

nocturne123 said:


> is it ok to give a cat dried liver treat for dogs (pro-treat)? I gave some freeze dried beef liver treats for dogs to my dogs, and Pandora insisted she should get some, too. She happily ate one cube.
> 
> I'll be making some liver treat for the dogs soon, and it will be great if all animals could share.


Sure, I don't see the harm in adding your kitty to the beef liver treat roster. I bought some commercial ones last year, and it wasn't as big a hit as the other treats.

How do you make your own? Is it the same procedure as making beef jerky?


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## Sol (Feb 20, 2003)

Yeah, it's OK to feed dired liver for treats. Just make sure you don't give your cats to much "candy".


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## vanillasugar (Nov 11, 2004)

There's actually a brand of freeze dried liver treats around here called "Benny Bullies" that are made for both dogs and cats. They're a big hit around here with my two kitties and I've never seen a dog turn one down!


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## nocturne123 (Apr 16, 2005)

Meowmie:

wow.. thanks for all the info. Evo cat has higher calcium: phosphorus ratio, and I intend to supplement meat as special treats. She's fed mostly canned food anyway. 

I know liver is packed with nutrition and vitamine A, so I wasn't sure if a cat could handle it. Sounds like occassional liver treats is a good way to spoil rotten all animals.

Superkitties: this is how I make liver treats for dogs:
1 lb liver
2 c whole wheat flour
2-3 garlic cloves

Liquify liver and garlic, pour it into the flour and stir well. Glop it onto a foiled lined baking sheet and bake at 325 about 20 minutes. I substitute some wheat flour with oatmeal and add some eggs or whatever I think the dogs would love.

I haven't made liver treats without flour yet, but here is one from Dog Training for Dummies by Volhard J. & W:

1. Partially boil some beef liver
2. Cut liver into 1/4 inch cubes
3. Place on a baking sheet and liberally sprinkle with garlic powder.
4. Bake in a 350-degree oven until dry, about one hour
5. Store in the refrigerator

Side note: I realize that some people oppose the addition of garlic and/or grains for dogs/cats. I believe moderation in garlic is fine. The amount of garlic in the recipe and the frequency they get treats do not concern me.


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## moggiegirl (May 15, 2005)

I think it's fine as a treat but it probably shouldn't make up more the 10% of the total diet. Foster and Smith www.drsfostersmith.com sells freeze dried liver for both dogs and cats. I wonder if freeze dried liver has less vitamin A than fresh cooked or raw liver. 

I'm not going to reccommend this and I personally won't do this because it's better to be safe than sorry but I can tell you that my german relatives have fed raw liver to their cats as an occasional meal and their cats never got any problems with vitamin A toxicity. They all lived long. But I don't know how much of it they fed or how frequently. I just remember the days as a kid, watching the cats eat raw liver, straight from the supermarket. Those old folks, in their day before World War two they didn't have access to commercial pet food and fed their kitties all kinds of scraps and when commercial pet food came out the old german ladies in my family continued to supplement commercial cat food with table scraps and sometimes raw liver or lamb hearts and all kinds of stuff that today many vets say "no, no, no"...and the cats all lived long. So that little bit of freeze dried liver should be fine.


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## Sol (Feb 20, 2003)

moggiegirl said:


> I think it's fine as a treat but it probably shouldn't make up more the 10% of the total diet. Foster and Smith www.drsfostersmith.com sells freeze dried liver for both dogs and cats. I wonder if freeze dried liver has less vitamin A than fresh cooked or raw liver.
> 
> I'm not going to reccommend this and I personally won't do this because it's better to be safe than sorry but I can tell you that my german relatives have fed raw liver to their cats as an occasional meal and their cats never got any problems with vitamin A toxicity. They all lived long. But I don't know how much of it they fed or how frequently. I just remember the days as a kid, watching the cats eat raw liver, straight from the supermarket. Those old folks, in their day before World War two they didn't have access to commercial pet food and fed their kitties all kinds of scraps and when commercial pet food came out the old german ladies in my family continued to supplement commercial cat food with table scraps and sometimes raw liver or lamb hearts and all kinds of stuff that today many vets say "no, no, no"...and the cats all lived long. So that little bit of freeze dried liver should be fine.


Raw liver would contain the highest amount of vitamin A. I'd say it's safe to feed liver as "cat candy" and the candy should never exceed more than 5% of the cats total diet.

I raw feed my cats and their diet contains no more than 10% of liver and they've done great on that for 2 yeas now. However, if one feeds commercial food it contains a lot of vitamin A so I wouldn't recommend more than 5% of liver.


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## moggiegirl (May 15, 2005)

Thank you so much for letting me know that. I've decided that for that reason I won't give my cats any liver. Although 5% is fine for other people who want to feed it. I thought about buying chicken gizzards and cooking them and serving them as treats but they are on commercial cat food which is high in vitamin A so I'll just stick with fresh cooked chicken, the muscle meat as a treat. I'm glad you told us that.


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## nocturne123 (Apr 16, 2005)

Please correct me if I am wrong. I thought chicken gizzards are not high in vitamine A? According to nutritiondata.com, 100gram of raw beef liver has 16900IU, and 100g of raw chicken gizzard only has 64IU.

Thanks for the 5% comment. I'll keep that in mind.


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