# 5 weeks ragdollkittens



## dragonfire (Aug 1, 2005)

I wasn't sure if I should start a new thread or post in the old one, but I posted a new one, so that no-one should miss it! :wink: 

Well, here they are again, a whole week older:

S*Dragonfire Brennan


















S*Dragonfire Aislinn


















S*Dragonfire Bronwyn


















S*Dragonfire Aidan


















S*Dragonfire Kellin


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## debo (Jul 25, 2005)

What breeds make a RagDoll Cat? My kitten that is part Siamese and possibly Himilayan look a lot like these and numerous people have questioned her background.

They are GORGEOUS!


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## dragonfire (Aug 1, 2005)

debo said:


> What breeds make a RagDoll Cat? My kitten that is part Siamese and possibly Himilayan look a lot like these and numerous people have questioned her background.
> 
> They are GORGEOUS!


Ragdoll is a breed of its own, so only two ragdoll cats makes a ragdoll cat. :wink:


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## DesnBaby (Apr 18, 2004)

So sweet!


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## DylansMummy (May 23, 2004)

I am soooo inb love with Aislinn! Such a cutie! Now if only I could convince DylansDaddy....


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## ForJazz (Dec 30, 2003)

*steals Bronwyn* she was made for me.


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## Sol (Feb 20, 2003)

Maybe we should switch kittens :wink: I'll take Aislinn and you can have my white boy


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## debo (Jul 25, 2005)

dragonfire said:


> debo said:
> 
> 
> > What breeds make a RagDoll Cat? My kitten that is part Siamese and possibly Himilayan look a lot like these and numerous people have questioned her background.
> ...



Well I KNOW THAT! But Ragdoll cats have a history of being bred from two other cats. I was just asking what those breeds were that they developed into a RAGDOLL as we know them today. I have heard that RAGDOLLS are a relatively new breed.


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## ForJazz (Dec 30, 2003)

debo said:


> dragonfire said:
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> > debo said:
> ...


I don't think it was just two. Anne Baker spent years and years developing the breed. I think the original cat was either a while DLH or a white doll-face persian but I can't remember. From there she used many cats -- probably Birman somewhere in there.


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## dragonfire (Aug 1, 2005)

debo said:


> dragonfire said:
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> > debo said:
> ...


Oh, ok!
Well, the breed was developed in the 1960s, and the cat which every ragdoll descends from was a white angora-typed cat called Josephine. She was mated with her son Daddy Warbucks, who was a pointed semi-longhaired cat, similar to a birman (but no true birman, as some say). Other breeds that were included in the early breeding was probably persian and burman cats.


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## dragonfire (Aug 1, 2005)

ForJazz said:


> debo said:
> 
> 
> > dragonfire said:
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Mrs Baker never used birman in her programme (that anyone know of), but there have been a few birmans breed into the ragdoll breed, but that was in a later stage of the breeds history.
Daddy Warbuck looks much like i birman in the pictures, so that is probably why many people think that the ragdoll descends from birman cats.


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## dragonfire (Aug 1, 2005)

Sol said:


> Maybe we should switch kittens :wink: I'll take Aislinn and you can have my white boy


Sorry, she will be moving to Norway! But it was a tempting proposal, a white devon boy is hard to turn down!


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## debo (Jul 25, 2005)

So there's no Siamese in them at all? Where do their Blue Eyes come from?


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## TxnKats (Jun 9, 2005)

debo said:


> So there's no Siamese in them at all? Where do their Blue Eyes come from?


Their blue eyes come from the pointed cats. Same as siamese...siamese get their points and blue eyes from their pointed gene...many breeds and non-breeds of cats have the pointed gene, it's not just solely a siamese gene.


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## Sol (Feb 20, 2003)

dragonfire said:


> Sol said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe we should switch kittens :wink: I'll take Aislinn and you can have my white boy
> ...


I had to try. :wink:


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## dragonfire (Aug 1, 2005)

debo said:


> So there's no Siamese in them at all? Where do their Blue Eyes come from?


As TxnKats says, the blue eyes in ragdolls are connected to the himalayagene, which gives the pointed colour. This colour exists in many breeds. 
Daddy Warbucks was pointed, and since he was the son of Josephine, she had to carry the pointed gene.


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## ForJazz (Dec 30, 2003)

dragonfire said:


> Mrs Baker never used birman in her programme (that anyone know of), but there have been a few birmans breed into the ragdoll breed, but that was in a later stage of the breeds history.
> Daddy Warbuck looks much like i birman in the pictures, so that is probably why many people think that the ragdoll descends from birman cats.


I definitely didn't think the ragdoll "descended" from Birmans, but I can see why others do. They do look similar. It's funny you mention that about Ann Baker -- that she didn't use birmans "that anyone knows of." I agree that I don't think anyone really knows what kinds of cats she used -- it seems that she was very hush-hush about it and just did her own thing. I have found lots of sources that say "angora-type" cats...which in those days was just another term for persian-type. For all we know she just used DLHs. I know that for the Ragamuffin, doll-faced persians are an acceptable outcross, but that's about all I know. Are there any outcrosses that are acceptable at this point for Ragdolls?


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## cagnes (Apr 16, 2005)

ForJazz said:


> . For all we know she just used DLHs.


Reportedly Ann Baker didn't keep the best records, but as far as we know that's exactly how the Ragdoll breed began... from domestics in Ann's neighborhood.


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## cagnes (Apr 16, 2005)

dragonfire said:


> S*Dragonfire Bronwyn


Oh my... I want Bronwyn!!! :love2 They are all adorable, but I already have 2 bicolor Ragdolls... a seal & a blue and a seal point & white RagaMuffin. Now, I would just love to have a lynx, they are gorgeous! !


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## dragonfire (Aug 1, 2005)

ForJazz said:


> dragonfire said:
> 
> 
> > Mrs Baker never used birman in her programme (that anyone know of), but there have been a few birmans breed into the ragdoll breed, but that was in a later stage of the breeds history.
> ...


Well, when you look at Josephine in pictures, she do look like an Angoran (the Turkish kind), but she was most probably a DLH. Here is a picture of her:









And here is Daddy Warbucks, her son:









We know that Ann Baker did breed persians before she started to breed ragdolls (and all the other breeds she started), so persians were most likely used in the breeding programme. Much speaks for the use of burman too, since many of the cats in the early pedigrees had asian names. (It is also said that in the writings you can find about the early breeding programme, it clearly says "burman".)

No outcrosses are accepted for the ragdoll breed, though there are some control breeding programmes around the world where you've crossed ragdoll with balinese and birman, in the purpose of improving the chocolate gene in ragdolls, and also to broaden the gene pool.


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## cattus (Dec 23, 2005)

they are all gorgeous


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## ForJazz (Dec 30, 2003)

dragonfire said:


> it clearly says "burman".)


Here's me pick-picking...but I think it probably clearly said "Birman" instead.  

Thanks for posting those pictures of Josephine and her son -- I'd never seen those before. They are really neat to see. 

cagnes -- Bronwyn is my favorite too! I was drooling over her earlier in the thread. I love love love that name, too.


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## Lisa 216 (Oct 25, 2004)

Those are the cutest kittens ever!!

I want them all!!  They are absolutely adorable. 

**wants to hop a plane to Sweden**


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## debo (Jul 25, 2005)

Interesting info. Thanks everyone!


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## dragonfire (Aug 1, 2005)

ForJazz said:


> dragonfire said:
> 
> 
> > it clearly says "burman".)
> ...


No, not birman. Maybe I say the breed wrong, but i mean the short haired breed from Burma. Here in Sweden it is called "burma", and the pointed semi-longhaired breed is called "birma". 

Oh, now I recall what it is called: *Burmese*! Sorry for the mis-spelling...


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