# Need suggestions for 2 (semi?) feral kittens!



## Lorelai

To make a long story short:

I brought home two kittens on Saturday. I knew they had been raised by mama, who is a socialized outdoor cat, and they were the last of their litter to be caught and rehomed. We live on a small farm and have some rodent problems, so my plan was to make spoiled outdoor working cats out of these two. However, I'm not used to cats, I'll freely admit, and I didn't expect them to be quite as wild as they are proving to be. They went from Puss 'n' Boots innocent to demon possessed spitfires in two seconds flat, and promptly escaped. Oh if I could only go back and redo that moment... anyway. They returned within 24 hours and took up residence by our back porch underneath the well house. I fed them twice a day at milking time. They would eat in front of me if I kept my distance, but that's about it. Because they are sill in that young, 8 ish week range, I decided to catch them again... I don't want truly feral cats running around here, and I don't want to have to trick them into vet visits later, you know?

They are currently in a sectioned off area in my bathroom (it's weirdly large). It's the only shower but we have other toilets we can use, and right now it's just DH and I in the house. I'm hoping I can make some progress with them by Sunday, so I can move them into the shop outdoors and keep working on them from there. We have a roommate who is mildly allergic to cats, and he's gone until Sunday night. 

Today, I positioned myself in front of the crate, but not facing it, and put a plate of food between them and me. Then I studiously read my book for over an hour before they finally came out. The orange male ate, and the grey female (this is what I was told they probably are) promptly looked for an escape. These kittens are lightening fast, can jump high, and are REALLY good climbers. Though even if they escaped the enclosure they couldn't escape the bathroom. Pretty quickly, the orange male used my makeshift litter box, which was positioned in front of me, though I made of point of not look at him while he was doing his business. I stayed in there awhile longer with them. They didn't show much interest in me. The orange male meows, and the grey female seems to be the more skittish of the two. I exited the enclosure after about two hours in there total, and managed to get out without anyone hissing at me. I was careful not to look at them or move directly toward them. Then I sat on a chair for awhile on the other side of my "wall" I made. They napped in the corner. I had a quite phone conversation, during which one, or maybe both, meowed a little, and then they went back in the crate. Since I want to associate the crate with "their" space, I retrieved the empty food dish and shut the door gently. 

I've been in and out of the bathroom since, not going out of my way to make noise but not tip toeing either, and am wondering, now what? Keep doing what I was doing? Once or twice a day? I have zero experience with wild kittens; I admit they shocked me a little. The grey female tore my hand up pretty good before escaping, which is probably why she is more wary of me. 

Well, now you're probably thinking, _that_ was the short version? I figured that in order to get the best advice, opinions, tips, etc., I had better give you as many details as possible. Please don't stone me - I truly didn't realize I was getting such wild kittens, and I wasn't really prepared for it, honestly. I want to do my best by them, and want to try to avoid hindering any progress we might make. Help?


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## sarah_anne

No, it's good to provide as many details as possible, so don't worry about length.
Did you mention how old the kittens were? Kittens younger than 8 weeks are relatively easy to socialize, after 8 weeks, it gets progressively harder.

My boyfriend and I recently tamed a feral kitten-I swear she was the devil at first and I didn't know jack about taming ferals. So I hit the internet. I will save you the hours of research and refer you to the best site: Urban Cat League. 
Taming Ferals - UrbanCatLeague

It is definitely worth the read, and watch the videos.

You basically have the right idea. Your first step is to get them to eat in front of you. Once they are doing that, you can move the bowl closer and closer to you and eventually start touching them and whatnot. I won't rehash everything from the site.

One thing I would change in your strategy is how long you leave the food out. Only leave it out for about 30 minutes or so. If they don't eat, pick up the food and try again at the next feeding. Their hunger will drive them to eat in front of you before too long. Also, you may want to pick up some meat baby food-apparently kittens LOVE that stuff. 

I will let you look over that site and I will monitor this thread to see if you have any more questions. You've got the right ideas going on, just may need to tweak your techniques some.


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## sarah_anne

If you want some more websites, I saved some of the ones that were the most helpful to me. They all pretty much say the same thing, and I think the one I gave you in the previous post is the most comprehensive, plus it has the video. But here are some more links:

Taming Feral Kittens - Feral Cat Coalition

Taming Feral Kittens


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## Lorelai

Thanks! The only reason I persevered so long this afternoon was a) I had the time and b) I wanted them to come out while I was there. But I can already tell they are getting braver... It probably took them 15 minutes max to venture out this evening. And I'm really not very far away from them... maybe a couple feet. They are getting more used to me and to the idea that I'm not, in fact, going to eat them. lol

They are 8 weeks old, I'd say into their 9th week now. I know that's right on the cusp, but because these guys weren't totally without exposure to humans before me, I feel fairly confident that I can get them to come around. The fact that they ventured out so fast tonight tells me that they should get better. Or they are very hungry, but I think they've been getting enough at least to not be starving and desperate. This is mostly them - they get spooked and leave the food, and I decide to try again in the morning. Tonight they let me fiddle with my phone beside them and I was even able to snap a few (bad) pictures before they got nervous. 

Thanks for the links - I've watched the Urban Cat League's videos and they were helpful. It's just a little harder for me to simulate that environment here... I wasn't planning on this level of taming. I hope to spend quality time twice a day with them, maybe three times a day if I'm home. Tomorrow I plan to get some stinky tuna, salmon, or sardines for an evening treat... depending on how they're doing, I may try to see if they'll take it from a spoon. I'm feeding raw food, which is what they were getting at their previous home along with mama's milk. They seem to really like it, both before and after catching them. 
I don't know if it would upset their tummies to be fed anything else at this point... but I could grind some meat up and try that, I suppose, instead of baby food? Hmmm. I also want to add here that their poo looks normal.

ETA: The Feral Cat Coalition site says that part of their process is to handle using a towel. I've been on the fence about whether to do that, or at what stage to try it. Thoughts?


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## sarah_anne

We had a hard time simulating Urban Cat League's set up as well, so we tweaked what we learned there. And our kitten progressed so quickly that the steps got all jumbled into one. Our kitten was probably 7 weeks, and she surprisingly came around in just a few days. It sounds like your kitties will come around relatively quickly.

I have no idea if baby food or even canned food will upset their systems if they are used to raw/whole food. Better just try the sardines. 

I will check out that sight. I have been considering raw for my girls, but I am still on the fence about it. In the mean time, I am just going to incorporate raw once or twice a week and see how it goes.

As far as using a towel, I don't know if it is really necessary in this case. And if you don't do it right, you could really freak them out. I probably wouldn't use a towel. We didn't need to with Arya (the kitten we tamed).


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## Venusworld21

If 8 weeks is an accurate age, they should come around really fast. I wouldn't use the towel unless you aren't making progress with them any other way. 

The scratching can be scary. We had one of our L batch fosters who took a chunk out of each of our hands. Try to bear in mind how afraid she must have been and be extra patient with her. Don't be afraid of her; she'll pick up on that. It sounds like you're doing everything right...keep up the good work and I think you'll be surprised at how fast they come around.


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## librarychick

I've tamed kittens a bit older than that, they were being fed a what-ever-their-momma-could-catch diet lol. I used canned food to bring them around, as long as you use a grain free canned and just use it for practice you should be good. The baby food is ok too...

TBH what I'd use though is chicken hearts. They seem to be raw fed kitty candy. My cats gobble them up like there's no tomorrow, lol.

As far as the towel method...I didn't read it, but I would try this:

Put on gloves. Scruff one of the kittens, then move it to your lap (or the floor right in front of you if they're doing their best chainsaw impression). Use your other hand to pet and scratch the kitten gently, speak to it in a calm voice. Rub it's head and neck, good scratches will help. Ideally you're aiming for purring, but in the beginning just relaxing a bit is good enough. Once the kitten has relaxed you can let go and they can choose to move away, or they may stay for more loves.

Repeat with the second kitten.

If you do that once a day, or twice is better, you'll see big changes quickly. They need to learn ASAP that people are nice and pets are great. At this age they're very forgiving, so you can use gentle force (scruffing, but otherwise treating them gently) to help them come around.

You'll fine that after a few days you probably won't need to scruff them, a hand on their neck will do, and you'll start getting purrs pretty quickly. After that they'll relax, maybe even fall asleep on you. The kitten I caught were 12 weeks old, and it took me a week to get some of them napping on me. I'd bet your boy will be like that.

The little female may take a bit longer, but between the food, cuddling, and add in some play time (ideally something where you hold fairly still) they'll be happy to see you in no time. Laser pointers are perfect play for these kittens, you can hold still and move only your hand and they'll forget you're even there.

Now we need pics!!!


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## Lorelai

Here they are!

There is progress even in just one night. I went in this morning (knocking softly before entering the bathroom, as I've been doing since last night to announce my intentions), and I found them curled up on the counter! On my camisole! It's a bad color on me and I won't wear it, so I left in there on purpose. They did NOT spook and run when I came in. I went to the sink (not the one pictured, my bathroom as two side by side), took out my retainer, etc., and they didn't move! Then I tried something new. I made eye contact and did some slooow blinks. The orange one definitely gave me a slow blink back! The grey one... I'm not so sure. She's braver... the orange one hides behind her a bit. They were trembling slightly but held their ground, even when I came back to quietly snap a picture with my phone. Progress!!! :mrgreen:


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## emilyatl

OMG. They are SOOOOO cute! They look tiny. They look younger than 8 weeks to me, but that could be due to lack of nutrition, etc. But they are so adorable. 

If you have a dirty t-shirt of yours or something with your scent on it, put it in their room/kennel so they can get used to your smell. What you're doing is great though, just being around them doing normal stuff helps them get used to people. Eye contact is GREAT, that's a huge step! It sounds like they are definitely coming around!


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## fanwoodguy

I am willing to bet that in one weeks time these two will be almost lap cats. My first feral kitten adjusted inside of 48 hours. He was about the same age as these two. I have a feeling that the are sharing their fear and that may be slowing them down. My experience with single cats/kittens is they come around quite fast when there is only a human to interact with. I don't know if one learns from the other or not but at this age success is almost guaranteed.


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## pkbshrew

Oh MY!!!!! They are just gorgeous. They SO remind me of little semi feral fosters I've had in. It always astounds me how fast they can got from hissing, freakout balls of fear to purring, smoochy love kittehs. Just keep it up. Talk to them heaps, give them a running commentary of what you are doing. keep things slow and calm. I think they'll be all over you like a rash very soon.


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## librarychick

OMG! They're sooo cute!

I think 8 weeks sounds about right, their eyes aren't blue and their ears are up completely. Plus that defensive posture is something I found feral kits develop slightly after 6 weeks. So 7-8 seems about right.

I love that they've snuggled up on your shirt  Maybe they'd like a nice fluffy towel to cuddle into? A box to hide in?

As long as you can always get to them it's fine to give them places where they can burrow or hide and feel secure. If you've already got those then bonus points since they chose your shirt over their hiding spot!


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## Lorelai

Yeah, I really didn't expect to find them up there! They have a dining room chair with a thick towel if they choose, and they can retreat into their carrier if they choose. Also they can hide behind the toilet... they obviously discovered the rest of the bathroom. Hopefully when I go in tonight with something super tasty they'll be more forthcoming.


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## Lorelai

fanwoodguy said:


> I am willing to bet that in one weeks time these two will be almost lap cats. My first feral kitten adjusted inside of 48 hours. He was about the same age as these two. I have a feeling that the are sharing their fear and that may be slowing them down. My experience with single cats/kittens is they come around quite fast when there is only a human to interact with. I don't know if one learns from the other or not but at this age success is almost guaranteed.


I think you are right, but I don't have a way to separate them. I'll see how much progress I can make over the next few days. I may be able to get a full week inside if I can convince the roommate who is allergic... depending on how bad it is, I may be able to put them in their crate during showers. That's all he uses that bathroom for anyway... we'll see. I'll let you know how my seafood bribe works out. 

ETA: Should I be talking to them now? A lot of advice suggested that I be pretty quiet and ignore them so they'll come out an eat... I've been reading my book and not looking at them. They're used to me carefully adjusting my position on the floor, but not talking overly much. Maybe I'll start doing that... I wish I knew what kinds of sounds they like and associate positively.


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## pkbshrew

Read your book out loud, that's what I did with all of my scardey kittehs. I also just chat quietly to them non stop. I'm sure they think I'm bonkers hehe.


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## sarah_anne

Maybe at first, being quiet is a good strategy. But I think you got them to the point where you can talk softly around them.

That is great that they are laying on your shirt. We put one of my boyfriend's dirty shirts in the bathroom for our feral kitten, and she loved laying on that, and she loved him.

If they didn't run/hide/hiss at you when you entered the bathroom, then you guys are making terrific progress. Keep up the good work.

BTW, they are adorable!


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## Venusworld21

I always talk to my scaredy cats. They need to get accustomed to hearing humans and I think the tip about not talking at all is for cats who are way more anti-social than your guys.


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## Lorelai

I apologize in advance for the sideways picture... I took it on my phone and emailed it to myself, but for some reason it won't upload rotated properly. My computer auto rotates it anytime I open the file, but when I upload it, it's sideways. Frustrating...










Anyway, we are still making progress. There was a bit of hissing from behind the toilet when I entered this evening, but they quickly came out to eat. Then they were comfortable enough to play in front of me... they really like the two blocks of firewood I stuck in there for them. The orange one is much braver and approached me a few times to take some tentative sniffs and whatnot. Still really skittish, but it's progress. The grey is definitely more aloof, but she doesn't startle quite like she did even this morning. I was able to make eye contact with both without them running off or acting too nervous. Tomorrow... I'm going to see if they'll approach me for sardines. I feel like the orange one actually might do it.


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## pkbshrew

FANTASTIC progress !!!!


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## Lorelai

I got them to come up and eat sardines out of my hand!!! What really seemed to work: They sleep on a bed of towel and my clothing on the counter. I sat on a chair by the counter and gave them some liver to start, on the counter right next to me, talking to them while they ate,and then I offered some sardine on a spoon. Surprisingly, the grey female was the first to come eat off the spoon, and then out of my hand! The orange male trembled (he's the one who talks to me... sometimes plaintive meows, occasionally hisses) but he came up and ate out of my hand too! No spoon required. I talked to them the whole time, praising them when they ate out of my hand, trying to to tremble from excitement myself. I even got them mildly interested in (more like, what the heck is that?) the laser pointer. Yay!!! :yellbounce

So now my question is: When should I try touching them, and how best to approach them with pets? I don't want to rush them, but I feel really confident that we're making some real progress.


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## librarychick

I vote for touching them now!

Grab a pair of gloves if you're nervous and start petting them. It works better if you hold them, if they start running away they'll just scare themselves, even if they hate being held in the beginning.

Hold one at a time, in your lap with their head facing away. Sick a chunk of sardine under their nose, then use one hand to hold them gently around the neck and the other to scratch their head and neck. I bet you'll get that little boy purring tonight if you give it a good go


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## sarah_anne

I concur. Wow, such progress. It's amazing how quickly these little guys come around.


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## Catmamma

Follow up the lap time by offering them the chance to touch you. When they do that voluntarily, give them a treat--something you haven't fed them yet. When they voluntarily touch you, you have them! Sounds as if that won't be long.


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## Venusworld21

I want to add that the body language in that last picture is not feral body language. While they may not be loving on you yet, they aren't hating you either. They're definitely coming around.


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## Lorelai

Thank you all so much for the positive feedback - I really appreciate it! The orange male let me touch him last night while he was eating, though once he figured out what I was doing, he shied away from the touch a little but didn't run off like the grey did. She's more skittish, but she also likes to play. I had far too much fun with the laser pointer. Bonus was that I was able to laugh out loud a few times and not startle them into hiding. I still get hissed at if I move too abruptly towards them when I'm standing, particularly if they are "hiding," but they are both improving a lot. The shower is still scary (understandably so, they hide behind the toilet), but they like to come out and wash me brush my teeth and do my hair. Last night they actually came up alongside me, though a couple feet away, and watched as I did my nightly routine. This is an improvement, since before they would only watch from behind me. I'm going to bring home more sardines and see if I can use them to lure them onto my lap... the orange one is getting close to that. Also today we are butchering, so I made a list of all sorts of goodies to be brought back for them. Hearts, gizzards, and necks, oh my! :mrgreen:


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## fanwoodguy

The hissing will probably end within a week. They are young so their experience with people is limited. The more you do with them, the more experience they will build up so that eventually being with people is all they know. Give it a few more days and they will both be lap cats. If it were me I would be ignoring the hissing anyway. Hiss back if you want but place yourself in the mom cat roll with them so their personalities do not dominate the interaction. You are the boss and provider.


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## Lorelai

I do ignore the hissing and don't take it personally. I think it's just an automatic fear reaction. They are getting bolder and to the point where curiosity is overwhelming fear. This morning while I was getting ready for work, they got up on the counter and came really got close to me, approaching my brush, container of hair pins, etc., sniffing and exploring. The orange one even got in the sink (we have two side by side, remember) and they just watched me. I did my thing, talking to them etc., and they are getting used to that. They seem slightly fascinated by me brushing my teeth... maybe because my toothbrush is a bright color. I'm going to talk to our roommate about letting me keep them in there for a few extra days, until I can get them approaching me on their own and up on my lap and purring. Assuming his allergies aren't too bad, and assuming that he only has to go into that bathroom for short showers... I'm hopeful. Once I get them to that point, then I'll feel comfortable reintroducing them to an outdoor home like the shop or well house.


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## Lorelai

So... DH must've left the bathroom door open or not closed all the way (he had a long busy day butchering today and ran in and out really quickly), because the kittens escaped! 8-O I lured them back with sardines. But I had to freak them out a little to do it, and I was worried this would hinder their progress. Not so! The grey female let me pet her tonight while she scarfed some tuna, and the orange male, while not really liking being touched while eating tuna, did get brave enough to venture onto my lap for sardines (I was sitting cross legged on the floor), and he let me touch him then. Not for very long, but each time he retreated, he didn't go so far. The same with the grey... she would shy away and come back, lather, rinse, repeat. The seafood is really great for trying new things with them, I must say. It keeps their attention really well. I'm so pleased with their progress. I like keeping track of each little victory here, because I can look back to my first few posts and really be able to see just how far we've come. It's great for my morale, and I hope others reading this are helped by it too.


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## Lorelai

So here are a couple more pictures to illustrate our progress (and because they're cute):









He didn't want to hold still, so it's a bit blurry...










So, I haven't tried to force handle them, and I think that's been the right decision for the situation. They are coming around nicely on their own, and I'm able to keep them inside for a little while longer. The only issue is keeping the room aired out. Anyway, the grey female is inquisitive and brave. Usually while I'm showering they hide around the corner behind the toilet, but today they both not only came out, but got comfortable. The grey female got on the chair and took a nap, and the orange male was a bit more skittish but eventually settled as well, across from the bathtub. They stayed put even when I pulled the shower curtain aside, got out, etc. I was actually quite impressed. Then later they let me get close enough to get the pictures I posted above. When I left the room, the grey female actually looked at me like, where are you going? And she tried to follow me. They still don't come up to me for pets yet, but I'm hoping I can get them to that point in the next day or two. I'm looking forward to that, because let's face it, they're cute and I want to cuddle with them! :wink:


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## pkbshrew

O.M.G!!!!! SOOOOOO cute! And wonderful progress


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## Lorelai

Yes, they are doing very well! After they had their dinner, the orange male kept coming up to my and acting like he wanted to play... at first I thought he was just looking for food from my fingers, but he kept batting slightly with a paw, and I pulled out the ball of yarn. Success! They were both playing with me! Whoo-hoo!


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## kittiesmom

Hi Lorelai, I am so glad the kittens are doing well, we have two cats that were feral and are now 3yrs old and are the most loving cats ever. lol.


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## Lorelai

I guess they finally made up their little minds about me:









Purring like little freight engines and napping on my lap! I'm sitting cross legged so I put the towel down so they could be more comfortable, but it's my lap!

:luv


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## librarychick

Yay!!! I knew it'd be quick 

I'm really glad they're doing so well!


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## Lorelai

Yes, somehow I get the feeling that they adopted me, rather than the other way around. 

Perhaps someone who has been following this thread can clue me in - I tried posting over in the raw food diet section, but I haven't had many responses. I have a bag full of chicken gizzards that I need to package for the freezer, but I'm unsure what to do with them. The butcher DH works with said something to him about cleaning them out before giving them to the kittens - does anyone know anything about this? Are gizzards sold in stores cleaned? I know a cat probably couldn't or wouldn't take down a full sized chicken in real life, but my instincts tell me that the gizzards can be fed as is, cut into smaller chunks. Can anyone verify this? I didn't find anything on Google about doing anything special with gizzards for cats, but if the ones in the store are somehow altered from their right out of the chicken state, then... I'm not sure. Anyone here feed raw? Thanks!


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## emilyatl

Aww, they are so cute. That's usually the way it happens. They adopt us. They own us. 

No clue about raw feeding though...


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## Lorelai

Yep... I just can't help it! :luv


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## NBrazil

I LOVE this story!


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## pkbshrew

Thank you for posting this gorgeous photo Lorelai. I REALLY needed a happy smile today and you just gave it to me 
You are doing a really good job with these wee babies.


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## Yuki'sMum

Awww they just look so sweet and sooo soft. How wonderful that they're feeling more at home now!


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Lorelai

I'm really glad I'm keeping them inside for awhile longer - the orange guy decided to dart past me when I opened the bathroom door to bring breakfast this morning, and then he ended up under the fireplace before darting up the stairs. The stairs are right next to the bathroom, so I just stationed myself at the bottom with the food and waited. It was kind of funny, because he was meowing so piteously! But he didn't want me to approach him either. We're going to have to practice that. Anyway, he was meowing loudly from the top of the stairs, the grey was meowing back from the bathroom, and after a few minutes of studying me, he decided to brave the stairs and come down for food. It took me a couple of tries to get my hands on him, but in the end I just lifted him off the floor and chucked him (gently) back into the bathroom. Then it was business as usual - breakfast, purring, playing, shower, etc. I think he just got scared when he realized he was out... which was kind of endearing, though I wish he would've let me approach him. Not quite there yet, I guess.


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## kittiesmom

You are doing a grand job, just persevere and you will get there. I did and it was worth every minute. Good luck.


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## Lorelai

Since I got a new reply, I'll update. 

So, we're a bunch of softies, and they are still inside, though they are definitely ready to be moved outdoors. Monday morning is the day! They are doing so well, it almost surprises me. Pretty much they love me and tolerate others, and will tolerate others best when I'm in the room. Just now after they had their dinner, I had the grey (who is, by the way, actually a BOY) purring on my shoulder! lol The orange will "ask" me for attention, particularly if he's in the mood to be picked up and cuddled against my chest while he gets his head scratched. He also really wanted to go up on my shoulder, but I explained that my shoulder really wasn't big enough for two kittens and he'd have to be satisfied with cuddling. Really, they are cuddly sweethearts for me now, and I already love them to pieces. :love2 I've been deliberating about names, and I'm thinking that the orange guy is Seamus (he seems to like the sound of it) and grey is Finnegan. At least officially. But I haven't completely decided on that yet... it always takes me forever to name animals. I'm kind of into names and so I usually deliberate a lot before settling on one. 

Thank you all so very much for your excellent support, advice, and feedback! The moral support I found here really helped me, and now I kind of think any kittens I acquire in the future will be feral/semi-feral kittens that I tame. It's been a really rewarding experience, and I hope that these guys will grow into great, sociable hunters for me.


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## 10cats2dogs

Great progress!! Some pictures of these guys would be nice!!


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## librarychick

Sorry, I missed it if you said it.

Are these little cuties neutered yet? If not I'd suggest neutering them before they go outside, just in case you can't catch them again as they get older.

...But I agree we need more pics


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## 10cats2dogs

My silly phone! The word "more" was supposed to have been inserted in my earlier post!
As in "more" pictures! ! LOL


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## Lorelai

I will try to get more pictures. 

As far as neutering, yes, I do plan to have them neutered, but I'm not going to have it done quite yet. These guys are only around 10-11 weeks old yet, and I've been around some male cats (and females, for that matter) that were fixed too young and were a little... off. I'd rather have them develop naturally. I know true ferals are caught and fixed pretty young, but I don't think this scenario is quite They will have a litter box, regular meals, and much affection outside in the well house (and wherever else around the farm they care to hang out with us), which is literally a few yards from my back door. I'm pretty sure they like me well enough now to be social with me even once they are outside. I plan to spend a lot of time out there with them during the transition, which is why I'm waiting until Monday, when I have a couple of days off work. I hope to keep them contained in the well house for a couple of days to establish it as their new home base, before they figure out how to explore the rest of the outdoors, and hopefully, with me nearby. Worst case scenario, I can trap them again, but I _really_ don't think that will be necessary. As long as I can give them daily attention, I feel pretty confident that they'll be okay.


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## librarychick

I'm worried about inbred kittens. The female could come into heat as early as 4 months. Its not common but it does happen. 6 months is more expected, but there are no guarantees.

I'm hoping everything works out, but you have to plan for possibilities too.


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## Lorelai

librarychick said:


> *I'm worried about inbred kittens. The female could come into heat as early as 4 months.* Its not common but it does happen. 6 months is more expected, but there are no guarantees.
> 
> I'm hoping everything works out, but you have to plan for possibilities too.


It turns out they are both boys, actually, so no need to worry about that. Once I got a good thorough look under the tails it was pretty obvious. 

...working on pictures...


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## Lorelai

Sorry it took so long to get another good picture, but we're finally working on exploring the great outdoors and I finally got lucky today: Good lighting, both kittens snuggled on my lap, and my camera phone available. =)


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## Mitts & Tess

If your guys are 3 lbs they are ready to be neutered. Dont wait too long. You dont want them to get into the marking mode that is hard to break. Do you have a low cost s/n clinic in your area?


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## kittiesmom

Lorelai said:


> Sorry it took so long to get another good picture, but we're finally working on exploring the great outdoors and I finally got lucky today: Good lighting, both kittens snuggled on my lap, and my camera phone available. =)


 They have turned out so gorgeous, the little grey looks just like my Scooby, lovely photos. :love2


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## howsefrau32

Just read this entire thread from the beginning and for the first time.....Oh my feels!!!! They are soooo stinking cute!!!! And now not scared of you anymore, yeah!!!


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