# Questions about kittens (approx 2 mos old)



## vjcantos1818 (Jan 25, 2009)

1. One of my kittens, Angel smells like poop (not very angelic, that one)..I've checked and there's nothing there..no poop on his fur or anything like that..it just smells..poop is very soft though..almost like a puddle so i'm giving him yakult like my vet (shelter vet) said..i'm not sure what else to do..i doubt that they're worms coz they just had their 2nd dose of dewormer (a few days ago)..

2. Said kitten is not very "active"..I don't know if he's sick or not..He won't play as much as his brother..He won't respond to treats..Nor would he respond to toys..Unless his brother has been playing with the toy for quite some time..And even then all he does is swat at the toy once or twice..What can I do to help him respond to the treats or toys..?..

3. Said kitten also has the weird habit of suddenly racing around, meowing as he goes..Doesn't look at all like he's enjoying herself when he does that..Doesn't sound like it either..he also tries to bite his tail or the base of the tail..and then he'll be ok for awhile..informed my vet and he said, give the vitamins first..Haven't seen a change yet though..Could this be something horrible or just normal behavior and I'm worried over nothing..?..

4. The other kitten, Wagner (brother to the previous kitten) roughhouses with Angel all of the time..When Angel is sleeping, he wakes him up..Pounces on him all the time..Bites..Claws..I know kittens like to roughhouse with each other, but I'm not sure if it's a good idea to let Wagner just do that so much..Angel seems to not have so much energy..What do you think..?..Should I interfere or not..?..

5. Both also smell like cat litter..Not the soiled cat litter, but the litter itself..I use swheat scoop, which has a wheat-y scent..And well, although its natural, the fact that it's cat litter, makes me NOT like it..I use catwipes on them everyday (Earthland or something..I got it from healthy options)..They still smell like that..What should I do..?..

**I feed them a combination of dry and wet (50-50) foods from Natural Balance/Felidae and an occasional Tiki Cat..I'm concerned because they'll be getting their anti-rabies shots and the vet mentioned that if their health don't improve, the shots could weaken them so much that they could die..They're my first kitty cats and I don't want that to happen..I've only had them 6 days =[..[they were adopted from a shelter]..They're also not neutered yet coz they're still too young..Accdg to the vet, I have to bring them back in 3-4 months for the neutering..

Please help..And I apologize for the length of this post..

Additional Details
The kittens weren't exactly indoor cats..They're from a feral litter and were almost run over by their rescuer, who in the end fostered them..That's why I'm quite concerned about the rabies..I'm still training them not to play bite, but I have nightmares about contracting rabies..I'm in the Philippines and the shots are traditional and still quite painful..

I'm so confused.. :?:


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

Welcome to Cat Forum!

Sounds like you have your hands full of little kittens :lol:. Think of an 8 week old kitten as you would a toddler child...they have goo on their hands and faces and they don't know how to clean it off so you have to do it for them. In my experience, kittens don't really get good at grooming until they're about 4-5 months old. The litterbox is a place to play as well as a place to eliminate, so they're going to pick up litter smells and since they don't clean all that well, they smell will stick with them. So you're faced with helping them for a while yet, but it will steadily decline until they're doing it themselves.

Regarding Angel...I had to look up Yakult, which appears to be a milk based product, many cats are lactose intolerant and this could be causing/contributing to the diarrhea. In the US, other parasites that cause diarrhea in cats can be giardia or coccidia. Was he eating the same brands of foods before you got him? If not, did you do a slow change over to the new food? Abrupt food changes can cause diarrhea. I agree with the probiotics in the Yakult, but I would give plain acidophilus capsules (can be opened and sprinkled on the food), other things that help firm up stool are plain canned pumpkin (if you can get it there) or Slippery Elm ( http://www.littlebigcat.com/?action=lib ... lipperyelm ) which can be found in Health food stores. 

I would be watching Angel carefully as it doesn't sound like he is thriving. Is he eating well? You might want to supplement him with something like Nutrical (if you can get it there). 

I definitely would not vaccinate Angel at this point. In the US it's typical to wait until a cat is 4 months old before giving a rabies vaccine as their little bodies can have a tough time handling it before then. 

Good luck and please keep us posted. And of course we'd love to see pictures of the babies!


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## vjcantos1818 (Jan 25, 2009)

Oh yes..I'm giving them Nutripet because I cannot find any vitamin specific to cats here (is that ok..?..)..A lot for dogs, but none for cats..I've tried ordering from Amazon, but apparently they do not ship pet products to my country..Also, I spend a good 30 min running after the kitties because they simply do not like Nutripet..And when I finally get to them, they scratch me in an effort to get away..No blood yet, but if you could maybe assist me with that too I'd really appreciate it..

Thank you for the info re the grooming bit..I was afraid there might be something wrong internally (like these anal glands I keep reading..I still don't know what that is, by the way)..I'm hoping you're right on this one..I have a very sensitive nose and I'm developing allergies, I'm afraid..I don't want to give them up, though..So I'm trying to find a way around that too..[Wow, you're right..I have my hands full..!.. :mrgreen: ]

The thing is, the vet specifically told me to give 2mL of Yakult mixed with their meal 3x a day..It worked for awhile (with Wagner), but then we ran out of Felidae and had to use a can of Natural Balance for 2 days..Their poop went back to liquid mush..I got hold of 2 cans of Felidae again and will be getting more, just in case..But could it really be this simple..?..Because of the food..?..They used to get Princess, a really low quality food only found in this country I think..That's the most affordable the shelter workers could find (they have more than a 100 cats to feed and hardly anyone is giving any form of donation), and after much research, I've determined it's as good as trash..I wanted to do a slow transition, but the people in the shelter said I don't have to because Felidae is so much better..So I'm afraid, I just switched food instantly..  

Angel is eating..not as much as Wagner because, being the active one, Wagner gets to the bowl first..also Angel gets full real quick and moves away from the bowl long before Wagner does..of course, once Wagner is done eating, Angel will go ahead to finish any remaining food (which is still quite a lot, i think)..they're sharing a bowl right now, should i give them separate servings instead..?..

I think I'll follow your advise and inform the vet that I'd like to see Angel recover some spirit/energy first..however, won't that pose a danger to us (humans)..?..they already did draw (my) blood once [it was a fluke..they badly wanted to sit on my lap, but when they jumped, they lost their balance and ended up clinging to my hand with their very sharp claws]..Won't they have rabies..?..Since they came from a feral litter..?..

Tomorrow, I'll definitely upload their pics..The little furballs just stole my heart the moment I saw them.. :luv


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

Feral cats do not necessarily have rabies. I would be more concerned about Feline Leukemia. Ask for a test. 

If you're really concerned about rabies, isolate the kitty for a week, and watch for illness, strange behavior, and a refusal to drink.


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

Well, I don't know anything about Nutripet, but generally dogs do have different requirements than cats. If the vet said it's OK, I'd tend to think it's fine. Is it a gel, powder or liquid? If it's thick gel you can smear it on the top of their paw and they will lick it off. Just make sure to rub it in enough that they can't shake it off and don't let them near the litterbox. If it's powder or liquid you can mix it with wet food. 

Yes, it could be as simple as a particular food not agreeing with them. Doing a quick transition of wet foods isn't as bad as with dry foods, but it could be contributing to the problem. I do find it interesting that the NB caused the mush. What flavors are you feeding? Some cats don't handle fish well (I have one of them). In Holly's case, a little fish gives soft poop, a lot of fish yields liquid. 

I would definitely give them separate bowls and would even go as far a separating them into different rooms until Angel is doing better. You could put Angel in the bathroom and close the door and give him a half hour or so. 

Giving a cat a rabies vaccine is to protect the cat, not the humans. The vaccine prevents it, doesn't cure it after it's been contracted, there is no cure for rabies. How long were they at the shelter before you got them? Incubation in cats is 2-6 weeks, but I would think young kittens would be on the shorter end of that scale. They would have had to be bitten by an infected animal to have it transmitted to them (and even then, the percentage that actually contract it is small, in humans it's only ~15% and cats are believe to be similar). I think if that had happened, given their age, they probably wouldn't have lived beyond that encounter. So I don't think it's likely that they have rabies.


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## laurief (Jun 22, 2008)

First the rabies ... if your kittens already have rabies, vaccinating them won't do anything for them. Vaccinations prevent illness from being contracted. They don't stop it once it's already present in the body. If the kitten's blood or saliva has come into contact with yours, you've already been exposed. Vaccinating the kittens won't stop that, either. That said, rabies is very rare among the feral and domestic cat populations in the U.S. I don't have any idea if rabies is at all prevalent in the Philippines, but your vet or doctor could advise you on that. Assuming your kittens are being kept inside now and that you don't have rabid animals coming into your home that your kittens can access, it should be perfectly safe to wait until they are older before vaccinating them.

As another poster mentioned, giardia and coccidia are common protozoal parasites that cause diarrhea in felines. Regular dewormer doesn't eliminate them, and routine fecal exams often can't diagnose them. They are frequently treated based on symptoms alone, so you might want to ask your vet about them.

It does sound to me as though your kitten's biggest problem has been the rapid diet changes. Kittens' digestive tracts are very sensitive to food changes. They can get diarrhea almost immediately after eating a new food. Your best bet is to give them a bland diet of cooked rice and boiled chicken for a couple of days, then very slowly start to mix in some of their regular food little by little. Give them small meals spaced 4 hrs apart throughout the day to give their digestive tracts time to deal with the food without being overwhelmed by large food amounts. Mix warm water into their food to help replace the fluids they're losing in the diarrhea.

I also agree with the other poster about avoiding milk products like (apparently) Yakult. Many felines are lactose-intolerant, and milk products can make diarrhea MUCH worse.  As mentioned, see if you can find acidophilus at a health food store or pharmacy. It'll provide the same sort of digestive aid that the vet was prescribing with Yakult, but without the lactose problem.

Angel's frantic running around and meowing sounds like the sort of thing that happens when one of my cats gets bitten by a flea. Assuming you have fleas in the Philippines, you should ask your vet for a safe flea product for use on young kittens. Use ONLY flea products specifically recommended by your vet. Here in the States, there are a number of brands of flea products available at retail stores that are highly toxic and have been implicated in the serious illness or death of many cats and dogs.

It's also possible that Angel's behavior could be a pain response to the diarrhea. Diarrhea can burn the skin if it's not cleaned off well, so use a soft, warm, damp tissue to clean him off back there.

One last recommendation - it would be best to switch to a non-clumping litter until your kittens reach adulthood. I use Swheat Scoop myself, and I know how firmly it clumps. As another poster mentioned, young kittens tend to spend time in their litterbox playing or just lying around, so they can get litter all over themselves which they then ingest as they groom themselves. You really don't want that litter clumping in their digestive tracts. It's safer to use a non-clumping litter with kittens.

It sounds like you're off to a fun start with those babies. They're fortunate to have landed in such a loving and responsible environment.

Laurie


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## vjcantos1818 (Jan 25, 2009)

Jeanie said:


> Feral cats do not necessarily have rabies. I would be more concerned about Feline Leukemia. Ask for a test.
> 
> If you're really concerned about rabies, isolate the kitty for a week, and watch for illness, strange behavior, and a refusal to drink.



Wow..In that case, they probably don't have rabies as they drink a lot..Which actually makes me worry because I read somewhere that cats don't really like to drink a lot unless their bodies really need the added moisture..Only an effect of the diarrhea right..?..Or could it be a symptom of something worse..?.. :?: 

Feline Leukemia sounds really deadly..Is that as deadly as the human type..?..


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## vjcantos1818 (Jan 25, 2009)

doodlebug said:


> Well, I don't know anything about Nutripet, but generally dogs do have different requirements than cats. If the vet said it's OK, I'd tend to think it's fine. Is it a gel, powder or liquid? If it's thick gel you can smear it on the top of their paw and they will lick it off. Just make sure to rub it in enough that they can't shake it off and don't let them near the litterbox. If it's powder or liquid you can mix it with wet food.


Nutripet is a generic vitamins for dogs and cats, not really specialized one way or the other..It was the best I could find as the other vitamins specifically said for dogs only..It's the gel kind and I put it on their lips, while they squirm and scratch their way out..So just on the paws would be alright..?..They probably would have been ok with that..I think..



doodlebug said:


> Yes, it could be as simple as a particular food not agreeing with them. Doing a quick transition of wet foods isn't as bad as with dry foods, but it could be contributing to the problem. I do find it interesting that the NB caused the mush. What flavors are you feeding? Some cats don't handle fish well (I have one of them). In Holly's case, a little fish gives soft poop, a lot of fish yields liquid.


I think it's Chicken and Lamb or Beef and Lamb..And I bought it only because Healthy Options ran out of canned Felidae..I thought maybe they got used to Felidae and their stomachs got irritated when I changed the food to NB..I've gotten hold of a Felidae canned food again and I'm hoping that they'll get much better..



doodlebug said:


> I would definitely give them separate bowls and would even go as far a separating them into different rooms until Angel is doing better. You could put Angel in the bathroom and close the door and give him a half hour or so.


I see, I'll start with this one immediately..It could be lack of food right..?..Angel could just be lacking food and that's why he seems so weak..?..How much per meal should kittens get exactly..?..I tried 1 cup of dry mixed with 1/2 cup of wet and they couldn't finish it..So I decreased the amount..I didn't want to leave the food too long on the ground because the wet food might spoil..But could I also be doing this one wrong..?..



doodlebug said:


> Giving a cat a rabies vaccine is to protect the cat, not the humans. The vaccine prevents it, doesn't cure it after it's been contracted, there is no cure for rabies. How long were they at the shelter before you got them? Incubation in cats is 2-6 weeks, but I would think young kittens would be on the shorter end of that scale. They would have had to be bitten by an infected animal to have it transmitted to them (and even then, the percentage that actually contract it is small, in humans it's only ~15% and cats are believe to be similar). I think if that had happened, given their age, they probably wouldn't have lived beyond that encounter. So I don't think it's likely that they have rabies.


..that's funny..I really really thought otherwise..Thank you for the info..The two kitties actually never spent that much time at the shelter..Because they were so young, they were at risk of contracting diseases from the older cats (the shelter is so small that they only have 1 quarantine area and newly rescued cats/kittens must stay there with sick cats/kittens), so a volunteer immediately fostered them..I got the kitties from the volunteer herself..So I guess it's safe to say they don't have rabies yet right..?..


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## vjcantos1818 (Jan 25, 2009)

laurief said:


> First the rabies ... if your kittens already have rabies, vaccinating them won't do anything for them. Vaccinations prevent illness from being contracted. They don't stop it once it's already present in the body. If the kitten's blood or saliva has come into contact with yours, you've already been exposed. Vaccinating the kittens won't stop that, either. That said, rabies is very rare among the feral and domestic cat populations in the U.S. I don't have any idea if rabies is at all prevalent in the Philippines, but your vet or doctor could advise you on that. Assuming your kittens are being kept inside now and that you don't have rabid animals coming into your home that your kittens can access, it should be perfectly safe to wait until they are older before vaccinating them.


Oh rabies is very much present in my society..It mostly comes from dogs, though..The strays here are so many, most Westerners are shocked to see dogs without owners everywhere they go..!..  ..We're trying to change that, but it's taking so long..Anyway, I guess that basically rules the kitties out because they probably would have shown symptoms by now if they were infected right..?..



laurief said:


> As another poster mentioned, giardia and coccidia are common protozoal parasites that cause diarrhea in felines. Regular dewormer doesn't eliminate them, and routine fecal exams often can't diagnose them. They are frequently treated based on symptoms alone, so you might want to ask your vet about them.


I see..How do they get these parasites just so I can prevent it from happening again..It doesn't come from food, does it..?..And are the symptoms pretty much what I described..?..Maybe I should start googling these two.. :? 



laurief said:


> It does sound to me as though your kitten's biggest problem has been the rapid diet changes. Kittens' digestive tracts are very sensitive to food changes. They can get diarrhea almost immediately after eating a new food. Your best bet is to give them a bland diet of cooked rice and boiled chicken for a couple of days, then very slowly start to mix in some of their regular food little by little. Give them small meals spaced 4 hrs apart throughout the day to give their digestive tracts time to deal with the food without being overwhelmed by large food amounts. Mix warm water into their food to help replace the fluids they're losing in the diarrhea.


Oh ok..how small should the meals be for each kittie this time..?..Because I'm going to start separating their food bowls..The water bowl they can still share, I think..Won't the rice contribute to the softness of their stool, by the way..?..I think I read something like that somewhere..



laurief said:


> I also agree with the other poster about avoiding milk products like (apparently) Yakult. Many felines are lactose-intolerant, and milk products can make diarrhea MUCH worse. As mentioned, see if you can find acidophilus at a health food store or pharmacy. It'll provide the same sort of digestive aid that the vet was prescribing with Yakult, but without the lactose problem.


Will definitely check it out..My best bet would be Healthy Options..If not, I hope the pharmacies here have some..Can humans use this Acidophilus too..?..Because if yes, the chances of me finding it would be much greater..If only pets use that..Well, I'm keeping my fingers crossed.. :wink 



laurief said:


> Angel's frantic running around and meowing sounds like the sort of thing that happens when one of my cats gets bitten by a flea. Assuming you have fleas in the Philippines, you should ask your vet for a safe flea product for use on young kittens. Use ONLY flea products specifically recommended by your vet. Here in the States, there are a number of brands of flea products available at retail stores that are highly toxic and have been implicated in the serious illness or death of many cats and dogs.


Uh-oh..  ..I just gave them Flee, Flea..An anti-flea spray I got from Healthy Options..Could that have played a role in Angel's health complications..?..If so, how come Wagner doesn't seem to be affected..?..



laurief said:


> It's also possible that Angel's behavior could be a pain response to the diarrhea. Diarrhea can burn the skin if it's not cleaned off well, so use a soft, warm, damp tissue to clean him off back there.


I use catwipes (from Earthland) everyday on them to minimize dander [I'm developing allergic reactions to dander, too..*sigh*]..And they seem to like that, but when I start cleaning their bottom, they cry out..Like it hurts or is quite uncomfortable..Is that a natural reaction because they're not used to me doing the cleaning for them, or is it something else..?..



laurief said:


> One last recommendation - it would be best to switch to a non-clumping litter until your kittens reach adulthood. I use Swheat Scoop myself, and I know how firmly it clumps. As another poster mentioned, young kittens tend to spend time in their litterbox playing or just lying around, so they can get litter all over themselves which they then ingest as they groom themselves. You really don't want that litter clumping in their digestive tracts. It's safer to use a non-clumping litter with kittens.


I thought Swheat Scoop is safe even if it were ingested..I seem to have read that somewhere..The label, maybe..So that could also be the reason why developed diarrhea..?..It's like I'm doing everything wrong  ..And this after I did so much research..*sigh*



laurief said:


> It sounds like you're off to a fun start with those babies. They're fortunate to have landed in such a loving and responsible environment.


They're sweet and fun..And very very easy to love.. :luv 
By the way, how do I post pictures..?.. :?:


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## laurief (Jun 22, 2008)

I have a couple of thoughts about Angel. First, diarrhea may be leaving him dehydrated. Dehydration can make a kitten feel quite sick and weak. Dehydration can be dangerous if it becomes too severe. Do a pinch test. Pinch up a tent of skin on Angel's back just behind his shoulder blades. When you release the tent, the skin should flatten right back down again, but if part of the skin remains tented for a second or two, that indicates dehydration. You can also check his gums. When you touch them with your finger, they should feel slimy. If they feel tacky, instead, that's another indication of dehydration. A dehydrated animal's eyes may also look dull, and the coat may look clumpy instead of smooth and silky. If you suspect dehydration, take Angel back to the vet for subQ or IV hydration.

I'm also thinking that if Angel does have fleas, they might be feeding so heavily that they are leaving Angel anemic. This, again, is something about which your vet should be consulted. I am not familiar with the flea product you used on the kittens, but I strongly recommend you call your vet immediately and discuss the product with him/her. Make sure you have the container with you when you call the vet so that you can read off all of the ingredients to your vet.

While you've got your vet on the phone, discuss the rabies situation with him/her. Since it is apparently endemic in your area, you need to get a clear picture of the risk to your kittens and to yourself. I'd be very surprised if your kittens have rabies, but it's certainly a topic worthy of discussion with your vet.

I don't know how giardia and coccidia are transmitted, but I would guess it's through contact with infected feces. I suppose it might even be trasmitted in utero from an infected queen to her kittens, but I'm not sure about that. Diarrhea is the most common symptom, and the diarrhea is often bloody.

Small meals for very young kittens would be around a tablespoon, I would think. You just need to eyeball it and give them a little less if they don't finish it or a little more if they gobble it up and still seem ravenous. It'll just be easier for their young digestive tracts to handle small meals every few hours. Rice, BTW, is used in a bland diet to help firm up loose stool.

Acidophilus is available in both human and pet formulas, but the pet formulas typically cost a LOT more. You can use acidophilus for humans. Just sprinkle a tiny amount over one of their meals each day until the stool firms up.

I wouldn't use catwipes on their anal area because I don't know exactly what's on the catwipes. There may be something that will sting those sensitive, irritated areas. Just use a kleenex wetted with warm water.

I doubt if Swheat Scoop has anything to do with Angel's diarrhea, but it's still better to stay away from any type of clumping litter with kittens. If there was a wheat or corn-based, non clumping litter, that would be a good choice for them.

Don't worry, you're not doing everything wrong. In fact, you're doing the most important thing absolutely right; you're LOVING them! You're also doing your homework, and that puts you waaaay ahead of most folks who adopt animals on a whim withoutt a clue how to care for them. Animal caretaking is a lifelong learning experience for all of us. Some of us are just a little further down that road than you are right now. But you'll catch up quickly. ;-)

Laurie


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## vjcantos1818 (Jan 25, 2009)

laurief said:


> First, diarrhea may be leaving him dehydrated. Dehydration can make a kitten feel quite sick and weak. Dehydration can be dangerous if it becomes too severe. Do a pinch test. Pinch up a tent of skin on Angel's back just behind his shoulder blades. When you release the tent, the skin should flatten right back down again, but if part of the skin remains tented for a second or two, that indicates dehydration.


I was afraid of this myself..I think I'll do the skin test first..She fights when I try to touch her mouth..Either that or she thinks I'm playing..So I'll take the coward's way first.. :wink: 



laurief said:


> I'm also thinking that if Angel does have fleas, they might be feeding so heavily that they are leaving Angel anemic. This, again, is something about which your vet should be consulted. I am not familiar with the flea product you used on the kittens, but I strongly recommend you call your vet immediately and discuss the product with him/her. Make sure you have the container with you when you call the vet so that you can read off all of the ingredients to your vet.


You're right, I'll go and talk to him about this as soon as I can..I did notice the problems surface a day after I sprayed the product..I'm really hoping I haven't done them any harm..  At the same time, I'll ask him about the human risk of not giving anti-rabies shots asap..



laurief said:


> I don't know how giardia and coccidia are transmitted, but I would guess it's through contact with infected feces. I suppose it might even be trasmitted in utero from an infected queen to her kittens, but I'm not sure about that. Diarrhea is the most common symptom, and the diarrhea is often bloody.


Does this have a human counterpart..?..Should I be worried when children visit and play with my kittens..?..I have noticed that there's no blood though..Maybe the antibiotics will take care of this..?..



laurief said:


> Small meals for very young kittens would be around a tablespoon, I would think. You just need to eyeball it and give them a little less if they don't finish it or a little more if they gobble it up and still seem ravenous. It'll just be easier for their young digestive tracts to handle small meals every few hours. Rice, BTW, is used in a bland diet to help firm up loose stool.


I see, thank you for that info..I really wasn't sure if I was feeding them the correct amount..I guess I'll just feed them every 4 hours or so with only a tablespoon worth of food for each kitten..



laurief said:


> Acidophilus is available in both human and pet formulas, but the pet formulas typically cost a LOT more. You can use acidophilus for humans. Just sprinkle a tiny amount over one of their meals each day until the stool firms up. I wouldn't use catwipes on their anal area because I don't know exactly what's on the catwipes. There may be something that will sting those sensitive, irritated areas. Just use a kleenex wetted with warm water.


Will yoghurt work just as well..?..Or should I just go buy Acidophilus instead..?..Is that a brand or a generic name..?..Ok, I'm switching catwipes to kleenex now..Just to be sure that I'm not inadvertently aggravating their problem.. :wink 



laurief said:


> I doubt if Swheat Scoop has anything to do with Angel's diarrhea, but it's still better to stay away from any type of clumping litter with kittens. If there was a wheat or corn-based, non clumping litter, that would be a good choice for them.


Okay..We have cat sand and maybe crystals..?..Things like that..But won't it smell..?..That was my major concern because my mother will go ballistic if that ever happened..



laurief said:


> Don't worry, you're not doing everything wrong. In fact, you're doing the most important thing absolutely right; you're LOVING them! You're also doing your homework, and that puts you waaaay ahead of most folks who adopt animals on a whim withoutt a clue how to care for them. Animal caretaking is a lifelong learning experience for all of us. Some of us are just a little further down that road than you are right now. But you'll catch up quickly. ;-)


Thank you so much for making me feel better..I just hope I haven't permanently damaged Angel yet..*fingers crossed*


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## laurief (Jun 22, 2008)

If Angel's symptoms occurred soon after using that flea spray, I'd recommend bathing her ... several times ... RIGHT NOW to try to wash off whatever residue may still remain in her coat. And I'd get on the phone NOW to discuss the ingredients of that spray with your vet.

I don't know if giardia and/or coccidia are transmissible to humans. That's another question for your vet. If I remember correctly, one of them is treated with a specific antibiotic, but it has to be the exact type of antibiotic to which the protozoa is sensitive.

That tablespoon amount I mentioned was just a guess. You don't want to underfeed growing kittens, but you also don't want to overwhelm their little systems with large meals. If they still seem really hungry with just a tablespoon of food, then feed them the same amount more often, like maybe every hour or two, if you can handle it with your own schedule.

Don't use yogurt. It's a milk product with lactose that can cause the same potential digestive problems as that other stuff your vet recommended. Stick with acidophilus (that's the name of the ingredient, not a brand name).

Look for an odor control type non clumping litter - maybe something with baking soda added to help control odor. If you can't find any such thing, then just sprinkle a layer of baking soda on the bottom of the box before adding the litter. Baking soda will help absorb odors. It'll also help to change the litter frequently.

Laurie


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## vjcantos1818 (Jan 25, 2009)

laurief said:


> If Angel's symptoms occurred soon after using that flea spray, I'd recommend bathing her ... several times ... RIGHT NOW to try to wash off whatever residue may still remain in her coat. And I'd get on the phone NOW to discuss the ingredients of that spray with your vet.


I'm not home so I'm afraid I can't bathe them right now..I did however, use catwipes on them..Everyday in fact, after that flea thing..Is that not enough..?..  



laurief said:


> Don't use yogurt. It's a milk product with lactose that can cause the same potential digestive problems as that other stuff your vet recommended. Stick with acidophilus (that's the name of the ingredient, not a brand name).


I'm still looking for acidophilus but not having much luck..how bout yogurt made of soy..?..i think those don't contain lactose..would that be alright..?..


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## laurief (Jun 22, 2008)

The cat wipes are probably not adequate to wash the flea product residue out of the kittens' coats and off of their skin. They really need to be bathed (with a NON-flea shampoo) several times.

I don't know about soy yogurt. Does it have live cultures? That's what regular milk-based yogurt is use for in terms of digestive regulation. Is there such a thing as a lactose-free, milk-based yogurt in your neck of the woods?


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## vjcantos1818 (Jan 25, 2009)

I see..How often are kittens should be bathed?
It should have live cultures, I think..Let me scrounge for that product..I bet Healthy Options would have some..


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## laurief (Jun 22, 2008)

Kittens and cats shouldn't need to be bathed at all unless they get into something toxic or so sticky that they can't or shouldn't groom it off of themselves. Bathing strips the skin of its natural oils and can dry the skin. I am only recommending bathing your kittens with several latherings in order to remove all pesticide residue from the flea treatment. You should also use a shampoo specifically formulated for cats, if possible (NOT a flea shampoo). If you don't have a store that sells pet shampoo, then just use a baby shampoo.


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## vjcantos1818 (Jan 25, 2009)

Oh okay..thanks so much for the advice..
Angel is feeling much better now..
In fact, he's much more active than Wagner is now..  
He now initiates playtime more often..
They'll have their anti-rabies shots tomorrow..
And then their 3+1 shots a few weeks after..
I'm still looking for a vet that conducts the FLV/FIV tests..so i'm still keeping my fingers crossed..
I do have a question though..
Their poop smells really bad now..
I thought it was only because of the antibiotics but I figured it could maybe something more..
Is there anyway I could minimize it..?..
When I wake up, the apartment stinks to high heaven.. :dis


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## nanook (Jun 12, 2005)

You've gotten some good advice so far!
As to your last post...I would not give your kittens any vaccines right now. If Angel is just recovering from something, I would give his system some time before I gave any shots. I'd give it a week or two of him feeling frisky before I did it. Also, the Rabies isn't usually given until 4-6 months. You probably meant they get their FVRCP now.
I don't know where you are, but running an Felv/FIV test is just a very simple blood test. I would think any vet should be able to do it. It's absolutely routine here. Maybe it isn't very prevalent where you are?
Along with milk products, soy isn't great for cats. You should be able to find acidophilus at a pharmacy or health food store or, if all else fails, on line. 
A note on flea (and deworming) products, just in case I missed it...be very careful, especially with kittens, on what you use. Many over the counter products are not safe for cats. Make sure you get a product that is safe for kittens from your vet. If you can get Advantage, I think it's the best and safest flea product out there. 
I'd be curious to know, what's on the cat wipes you're using?
For feeding, I agree that several small meals a day or free feeding is best for kittens. If you do meals, just make sure they are getting all they need. Up until at least 6 months, they are growing a ton and should eat all they want. If Angel is a nibbler, you may need to sneak in extra feedings for him.
As for the sticky poo. If their stools are normal and firm, it's probably just normal, STINKY kitten poop. It gets less offensive as they get older. But, if they still have soft stools, I would have them checked/treated for giardia and/or coccidia as mentioned earlier. They are the most common causes of unexplained stinky soft stools in kittens. By the way, both are transmitted through feces (cats also can get coccidia from hunting). The type of coccidia that infects cats can not be transmitted to humans but giardia is not as clear cut. It could _potentially_ be transmitted to people but, since it's passed through the stool, it's highly unlikely. Just practice proper sanitation and you'll be fine.
I think it sounds like your kittens are very lucky to have you!!

P.S. The reason Sweat Scoop or any scooping litter may not be a good idea is that some kittens tend to eat their litter and it can clump up in their intestines.


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## vjcantos1818 (Jan 25, 2009)

I just checked..And Angel has some soft stools again..  
They were already nice and firm (albeit, quite stinky) for a few days and now they're back to an almost liquid consistency..
I don't know what's happening..
Will insist that the vet conduct giardia/coccidia tests..
He hasn't really conducted any tests yet..

I'm looking for the cat wipes ingredients list in the net..
But I still cannot find it..
Below is the description found on the case though:

Earthbath All Natural Hypo-Allergenic & Fragrence-Free Cat Wipes with Awapuhi safely and easily wipe away dander dirt and residual saliva in your finely furred friend's coat.
Dander and saliva build-up are the leading causes of human/cat allergies, and use of these wipes can help resolve this issue in short order, while leaving your cat or kitten softer, shinier and smelling better than ever before.

Mild cleansers deodorize, freshen and clean as the exotic Hawaii Awapuhi conditions the coat and imparts a healthy shine. Aloe Vera and Vitamin E moisturize both coat and skin.

Safe for daily use
Safe for all cats and kittens over 6 weeks old
No animal ingredients
Alcohol free
Tub keeps wipes moist
Will not remove spot-on flea control treatments
100 extra-thick soft & moist wipes per container.

Manufacturer: Earthbath 
Earthbath Cat Wipes Hypoallergic 

Is there no way I could minimize the smell of the poop..?..
I don't really want to wake up every morning with the apartment smelling like it's never been cleaned.. :dis


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## Mom of 4 (Jul 29, 2006)

You have received some great advice.
And I'm so glad Angels is feeling better now. Though I would also wait a week or two for the vaccinations. My cats always have a mild reaction to the vaccine and are off their food for a day or two and sleep a lot after getting them. I would hate to do this too soon and have Angel relapse.

My cats don't tolerate some of the better foods that I wanted to put them on. Gas was an issue for them - and I hated it too. So I tried a different canned food for 5-7 days. Some they liked, some they didn't. I finally found one that worked for them and that's what we use.

Rice is a low residue food, meaning that the body tends to break it down easily and absorb the carbs so there is very little remaining as poop. It is part of a post-op diet for those having surgery on the stomach or intestines and as part of the BRAT diet (bananas, rice, applesauce, toast) for humans getting over diarrhea. It doesn't do anything to firm up stools.


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## nanook (Jun 12, 2005)

> Is there no way I could minimize the smell of the poop..?..


Well, if it is giardia or coccidia, yes, treating them will help a lot. But, often, kittens do tend to have smellier poop than adult cats. Their little systems aren't fully developed yet so they are more prone to gas and stinky stools until they get little older.
As for the wipes, I don't what Awapuhi is but they sound okay from what you wrote however, if it were me, I would stop using them for now, just in case.


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