# I don't want kitties >_<



## Zigma (Feb 10, 2004)

Yesturday I cought my 2 cats going at it. I was on my computer playing a game and they were both in my bed, Usually they play 

around and stuff but i saw this....position that boxer was in (male) and i was like, bah they must be playing, I pause what i'm doing on 

my computer and out of curiosity i went and checked, To my suprise, They were doing the hoky poky.

I did not think in my wildest imagination that they would be doing the deed at such a early age! (One was born in september (boxer, 

male) and the other was born in October (Mitchi, Female) 


Mitchi is alot smaller then boxer but I am scared that she will have kitties. I cannot handle any more kitties (2 are a handful but 

lovable) and It's hard to give them away (i don't want to put them in a shelter)

I went with boxer today to get him neutered but they are charging an outrages free ($100+) So I looked for the ASPCA and saw they 

have free neutering and what not and made a appointment to but thats not until next month. 

I, of course keep them seperated but i cannot watch them all the time so my question is, Is mitchi too young to have kids? She is very small and fragile compared to boxer but of course, is healthy. 

I've included a picture of her sleeping ^_^


Thank you all for the wonderful forum. 


http://www.tribes3.org/sleep.jpg


----------



## fillerbunny (Feb 4, 2004)

What a gorgeous kitty! 

Has she gone into heat yet? Although it's not overly common, four month old kittens are sometimes able to conceive. Our old vet did not want to alter Zoe (the only female in a litter of five we rescued a couple years ago) early because she was convinced pregnancy wasn't an issue until the kittens hit around six months. (So Zoe, in typical Zoe fashion, decided to go into heat the day she hit four months.)

Male kittens are usually later to mature than females, so it's possible that Boxer may not be physically able to father kittens yet, but I would still be careful, particularly if he seemed to know what he was doing.

I would definitely separate them and make an appointment to have Mitchi altered ASAP.. even if Boxer's neutered, all it takes is her sneaking out for a minute or two and bumping into a stray or feral tom, and *bam*- you're stuck with a litter. I work with a girl whose 5 month old cat had an appt. to be spayed, went into heat a couple weeks early, snuck out for a good five minutes when somebody came to the door, and delivered four kittens two months later. (Besides, even if she doesn't get pregnant, cats in heat are REALLY OBNOXIOUS, as are their male housemates. :wink

I don't know where you're from, but there are lots of reduced cost spay programs available out there, especially if your kittens were adopted. 

Good luck!


----------



## Zigma (Feb 10, 2004)

Oh, they never leave the house. I live in NYC so the chances of her sneaking out are slim to none. The place to get them fixed is doing it for free ( http://www.neighborhoodcats.org/info/freespay.htm ) and i called in for a appointment and they put me for next month. Oh, and i paid about $55 Dollars for each cat though i sort of rescued them from the pet store their were in. They lacked attention and Boxer (which is why he is called that) had a nasty scratch in his eye that still bothers him today. Like when he wakes up etc you see one eye bigger then the other. 

I'm keeping them both seperated at almost ALL times. I don't mind if they do 'it' but not while their able to have kittens.

If she turns out to have them, I will prob donate them to a pet store. I'm sure they'll take them with ease.


----------



## felinefanatic (Feb 8, 2004)

hello, 

I certainly think she is too young, and I would not chance that neither of them are 'mature' enough to reproduce. the fact that they are already mating suggests to me they are both sexually mature.
I have my girls spayed at 12 weeks and they are already in season.
And a friend had a 12 week old siamese that fathered 4 litters to her utmost horror !!
I would call the spca, or wherever you are having them desexed, and tell them that the girl needs to be desexed ASAP as she may already be pregnant, perhaps they can bump you up the list and do the spay earlier than 1 month.

cats have kittens in approx 9 weeks, so 1 month is certainly too far away.

please let us know what happens.


----------



## Zigma (Feb 10, 2004)

Will do!,


----------



## Sol (Feb 20, 2003)

I wouldn't recommend letting such a young cat have kittens, but biologically it's far from impossible.

I don't know how it works in the US but here in Sweden we can "abort" kittens simply by spaying the mother while she's pregnant, they remove the kittens with the uterus. It is not a method that I would recommend (and it's rarely done), normally, but if the cat isn't supposed to be a breeding queen and concidering her young age I think it could be a good alternative. Swedish vets do this procedure up 'til the fourth week of pregnancy.

If this isn't an alternative, keep the youngsters separated and I have at least one of them neutered/spayed pronto.


----------



## Zalensia (Aug 25, 2003)

You beat me to it sol, i know some vets in the uk will do it aswell up until a certain time. Aparently its a much messier procedure, which i could imagine it would be.


----------



## Padunk (Oct 20, 2003)

A few days after I adopted Punky I found out she was 3.5 weeks pregnant. The vet said in order to humanely do it, it needed to be done within the next few days. So it can be done, I believe the spaying was an extra $30 because of it.


----------



## Zigma (Feb 10, 2004)

god, i wish it cost that much over here. Its all over 70 dollars. 

So far, I've had luck keeping them away from each other. Boxer stays in my room, sometimes cry's to be out but it think it's because he's in heat (if thats what it's called)

I let him out once in a while to go use the bathroom and switch places with mitchi. (put boxer out, keep mitchi in my room) 

I pet them to let them know that they've done nothing wrong but so far it's been a rough because he wakes me up with meowing. I go to sleep at 1am, He's meowing at 4am and well, you get the idea.


----------



## Zigma (Feb 10, 2004)

ok, I decided to let what happeneds happeneds. They are both suffering from not seeing each other and i have not had a good night sleep in 2 days. boxer wakes me up screaming and crying and its heavily annoying but i bare with it. 

I hope that this was just a one time thing and they are over their heat thing.


----------



## queen of the nile (Aug 16, 2003)

Do you know someone who can take one of your cats until you can get them fixed? You can't let these guys have kittens because last thing you need is more cats :wink: .


----------



## Zigma (Feb 10, 2004)

I don't think they like cats. Plus mitchi doesnt let him get ontop of her from what i was told ;o 



I can handle cats, i LOVE them with all my heart and it's not their fault thet want to get it on, it's nature.

If she DOES get a belly, I will see about donating them to the same petstore i got the kitties from.


----------



## felinefanatic (Feb 8, 2004)

Zigma - did you call the ASPCA and ask if you can get her spayed earlier ?!?


----------



## Padunk (Oct 20, 2003)

Yes, they might make special exception given your circumstances.

There are too many unwanted kitties in the world, even if you were to find them nice homes through that petstore that just denies some other kittens a home.

Be careful, and please don't take the situation lightly.


----------



## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

I would not allow them together, regardless of the crying. She's too young to become a mother. She will continue crying for a week, at least. If you allow a pregnancy, there will be liitle kittens almost perfectly formed removed during the spaying. That's a price I wouldn't want to pay. 

I hope you change your mind. Have the male neutered right away, and take care of the female when she's not in heat. She will come in heat within two weeks after this heat is over, if she's not pregnant. If she accepted the male, she is probably already pregnant, however. You have an important decision to make. I wish you the best.


----------



## Zigma (Feb 10, 2004)

God i hope she is not pregnant. The ASPCA is Booked completely, that i'm sure and their mobile van is too far from where i live. The ones who gave me the appointment was http://www.neighborhoodcats.org/info/freespay.htm and I'm sure they are full as well if they booked me to next month. 

I continued to keep them away today, I asked to see if anyone could hold mitchi for a little while and they said they could not.  

Belive me i want to get at least boxer neutered right away but it's so darn expensive in new york. All the places want $80 dollars for the make alone and around $130+ for the female and i unfortulatly with School and other bills right now cannot afford it. I knew I had to get them fixed sooner or later but my friend lived in california and he told me that it would cost 20-30 dollars. 

I even tried to negotiate with the vet to see if he would do it for $50 dollars and he would not and did a few phone calls to see who could and the best that i got was the free one for next month. 

I still really find it extreamly hard to belive that mitchi is physically able to get pregnant because she is extreamly small. 

http://www.tribes3.org/DSCN0294.JPG
http://www.tribes3.org/DSCN0295.JPG
^Here are 2 pictures of her comparing her in size of a pepsi can, as you can see she is really small. 

If she is really pergnant, How do i go about knowing it. Does her attitude change and does she stop bieng active as before? 

I assume if she IS then she has to be only a few days to a week tops and when i first catched them doing it, it was for only a split second for i removed him ASAP and his um.. :!: thing was still :idea:


----------



## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

Her size doesn't matter. Unlike human beings, a male cat cannot penetrate a female unless she is in season. He cannot penetrate her at any other time. It was probably painful when you pulled the two apart. There are "barbs" on a tom's penis which, when withdrawn, causes the female to cry out. Her size will not prevent pregnancy, but it might cause a difficult delivery and possibly a caesarean birth. The first symptom of pregnancy will be the fact that she doesn't go into heat again in a couple of weeks. Then her nipples will get larger and deeper pink. Finally, you will notice her getting wider, and the kittens will visibly move the last two weeks. Mark down the day they bred. She will have kittens in 63-65 days. (9 weeks)

A female in heat will yowl and cry and make "cooing" sounds. She will be very nervous and want attention from everyone. She will also roll around, and finally lift her tail and flag it to one side. She will need a lot of petting, and that's only a temporary fix. I suggest that you buy or borrow a large cage if there's no other way to keep them separated. Or, you could keep the male in one room and the female in another. You could use a cat carrier to allow them to exchange places so they both get attention when someone is home. I'm sorry you are in this position, but owning pets carries responsibilities. I do hope all goes well for you. Please keep us updated.


----------



## wookie130 (Feb 1, 2004)

I agree with everyone else on this one...it's a tough situation, but I would definitely keep them separated, until little Mitchi can be spayed...people don't always understand it immediately, but it is quite a tragedy to allow such a young little girl to face motherhood. Her body is still growing and developing, her maternal instincts aren't the best yet, and then there's the issue of bringing in more kittens into the world when there's already so many strays and unwanted adults...kittens tend to steal the limelight for many prospective owners looking in shops and shelters, and so many loving adult cats are overlooked and won't find homes because of it. Mother cats may also mourn the loss of their young once they are weened and socialized, which can leave them depressed and lonely once the kitties are separated from her...

I hope for her sake she isn't already pregnant. This is just an all-too common scenario, and it's actually considered an epidemic in the U.S. Please read "The Miracle of Life" poem that I posted in the arts and lit forum...it sheds a lot of light on the situation.


----------



## Zigma (Feb 10, 2004)

Thank you all for your advice. I am trying to do the best for my kitties because i love them and i knew this would happened. If i was some snot uptight person, i would of just let them go at it without even caring. and yes there are too many adult cats that are overlooked. For instance, I was coming home yesturday from the store and i saw an adult cat walking up and down. It was a stray so i stopped to see if he (or she) was doing OK. 
It was walking up and down through the garbage in search for food, I wad 2 cans of tuna that i was bringing home and i gladly gave him one. As went to put it down (He or she) gladly ate it and I noticed his nose was bleeding, sort of like (s)he was scratching it extreamly hard. When i went to pick him(or her) up, It ran away. I felt really bad.

Back to my kitties 

I went out of town yesturday with my two friends to go fix my friends computer and my mom and sister told me that their still trying to get it on still. 

I am going to buy a carrier sometime tomorrow with the help of my mom.


----------



## wookie130 (Feb 1, 2004)

Oh, I'm not saying anything about you as a person...and I know you want to do the right thing for your kitties! I would still continue to have them stay in separate rooms, even if they act like they miss each other...maybe you could give them supervised visits daily. If it looks like things are going to get...er...kinky, then I would separate them again, until their next visit. And this would only have to be until you have your girl spayed...


----------



## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

This is so sad. I was hoping you'd separate them, just in case the breeding didn't "take." My heart aches for the cats in shelters, but I could not bring myself to abort kittens after a month of development in the womb. How terribly sad that the chances she's pregnant are now much higher than they were when you first asked for advice.  I'm sure your heart is in the right place and that you love animals. Unfortunately when an animal is in heat, the male has to be isolated immediately.


----------



## wookie130 (Feb 1, 2004)

Jeanie, I completely agree.


----------



## Zigma (Feb 10, 2004)

The cats are doing great! So far boxer stays in my room almost all day and he sits ont he window and looks out sometimes, the other time he's sleeping in the bed or in my lap looking at my use the computer (play games, coding, watching anime) He seems to like the flashy lights which is cute. He meows when he needs to use the bathroom or wants to take a little walk. Mitchi stays out with my sister etc and pretty much roams the house all day.


----------



## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

If she comes in heat in a couple of weeks, you'll know that all is well. But keep them separated until they're spayed and neutered. I'm glad they're not upset by the arrangements. Your bedroom sounds like a great place to hang out! Good luck, and keep us posted.  (If she's pregnant, we'll give you the best advice we can.)


----------



## Zigma (Feb 10, 2004)

I'm sorry the me bumping the thread over and over, I'm just wondering how long the whole "heat" thing last.


----------



## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

It can last up to 14 days (or less than a week). It varies. If she isn't pregnant, she'll come in heat again in two to 4 weeks. The cycles are influenced by the amount of daylight. Now that the days are getting longer, she will come iin season faster. Spaying is the only solution.


----------



## Zigma (Feb 10, 2004)

Ok, thats good to know. March 16 is almost here ^_^


----------



## queen of the nile (Aug 16, 2003)

Then you can stop worrying  !


----------



## Zigma (Feb 10, 2004)

Just want to update everyone that boxer has been successfully neutered!


yay ^_^

Should i get mitchi spayed as well? or will boxer bieng neutered is enough?

I heard that when she gets into heat she will start leaking everywhere or something like that.

Thank you all.


----------



## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

I'm glad Boxer has been neutered. Yes, Mitchi should be spayed. She will yowl and be very nervous, and run to get out the door if she's not spayed. Also, there are many cases of a tom cat actually getting into the house to breed an intact female in heat. She will also be protected from cancer of the reproductive organs if she's spayed. If she is pregnant, the kittens would be be viable--that is able to live. I couldn't allow them to die if they were my kittens.


----------



## Zigma (Feb 10, 2004)

well, the whole tom cat and the running out the door is out of the question for we live in a apartment and they don't go out for nothing. 

I'm gonna get her spayed Next month. The service is free but the wait is killer and its far away.


----------



## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

A female in heat can get out a door faster that we can even think about closing it! If you want to keep her really safe, put her in another room and close the door. I'm guessing that many of our members' female cats had kittens by making a dash for the door before anyone could catch it! They are determined!  I'm glad you have a free service. I hope the month goes quickly.


----------

