# There ARE orange girls!



## bluemilk (Oct 3, 2005)

It was my understanding that,while orange boys abounded, there weren't a lot of marmalade females! At the Angels for Animals fair tent,I saw orange kittens-females! I know,the BREED is Tabby,ORANGE is just a color. Y'know...the girls seemed more aggressive.:? I petted one, and she attacked my finners!


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## swimkris (Jul 17, 2010)

I've heard that too, but I'm not sure of the genetics behind it. I do know that it is rare to find a calico or tortie male because those color patterns come from co-dominant x chromosomes (fertile males should only have 1 chromosome).


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

I think it is a simple law of averages combined with a little Murphy's Law. 
Cats' base-color is carried on the X chromosome; O = red and o = black. Males have only one (XY) chromosome while females have two (XX) chromosomes. The chances of a female getting OO, an O from each parent and *not* getting a mix of Oo (tortie) or oo (black) makes the OO percentage of probability smaller.


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

Of course they exist...look at my signature picture! :lol:

Because of the genetics involved, orange (red) females are somewhat rare, but not virtually non-existent (like male calicos). The numbers I've read vary, the range seems to be 5-10% of orange cats will be female. 

An orange male has to be bred with an orange or calico female to get orange kittens. In male kittens the red gene is dominant, but in females it's recessive...so female kittens have to receive a red gene from both parents. And that's why it's less likely. 

Of course, in a controlled environment, the odds can be changed...Holly's breeder bred Holly's dad with a red female and they produced an entire litter (4 or 5) of red females. 

And Holly just nibbles fingers :lol:


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## Keeping August (Aug 31, 2010)

Yep, they exist.... I've had several orange female fosters in years past.


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## swimkris (Jul 17, 2010)

Aha- I looked up the genetics for the coloring:

"Red" coloring is made by the "O" gene. This gene is not "recessive", rather it can mask black genes (called co-dominance~ think of patched cows). In other words, the orange gene comes from a separate set of genes than black color genes, and EITHER orange or black can be expressed in each cell depending which gene is activated or deactivated. 

The red gene is also sex-linked like others mentioned above. This means that males would only have to inherit one O gene to have their "original" color masked by the red gene, and females would have to inherit two O genes to mask whatever their other color was. Torties & Calicos have one O gene, so the red masks their "original" color in some places, while not in others.


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## furryfriends251 (Jan 1, 2009)

I've seen a lot of female orange tabbies at the shelter - it is closer to 60% of the time they are males and 40% of the time they are females. That is at least what it _seems_ like here.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

I'm not sure it is 'masked' color so much as "co-dominant" means just that ... equal ability. 
If there is O, the cat is red. 
If there is o, the cat is black. 
If there is Oo, the cat is red AND black.

I do not know all there is to know about cat colors, but with red and black being the 'basics' the above is mostly true. There are other modifiers that work together and separately that can change base-color but IMO, the 'basics' are just that; the basic color(s).

_Horses can carry the two base colors of red and black. In horses, black is dominant and is called "extension", denoted with an 'E'. Red is recessive and is denoted with an 'e'. Black horses can be EE or Ee. Red horses must be, and always are, ee. There are other modifiers but that is the basis for their black or red base-color._


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## swimkris (Jul 17, 2010)

Red and black must BOTH be dominant genes to be able to display both colors at the same time (such as torties & calico's). Otherwise, a heterozygous genotype female will always display ONLY the dominant gene. In this case, red & black are two different genes that can influence each other because only one dominant gene can be displayed at a time (sometimes activated, sometimes deactivated). 



Another example that may make it easier to understand....blood types in humans:
A and B are both dominant genes, while O is recessive (O replaces the recessive "a" and "b").

Type A blood: AA or AO
Type B blood: BB or BO
Type O blood: OO
Type AB blood: AB (another example of co-dominance)


So, say red coat color in cats is "O" and black is "B." The black "gene" is actually a gradient working in conjunction with other genes that make the color dense or dilute, and it is carried on a regular chromosome. The red gene is carried on the X chromosome. If a male receives "o" or a female "oo," then that means the red gene will not work to mask the "B" genes. If a female receives "Oo," then depending on lots of extenuating circumstances, the red gene will be activated and "mask" the "B" gene in some cells and be deactivated in others (having no affect on the "B" gene in that cell). If a male receives "O" or female "OO," then the red will mask all of the "B" genes, creating a red cat.


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## mimitabby (Apr 20, 2010)

I just got told by a cat owner that orange tabbies with no white spotting are almost always female. Now that's ridiculous, I don't know where people get ideas like that.


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## OctoberinMaine (Sep 12, 2006)

As many times as I've read the explanation for orange cats being mostly boys (and calicos girls), I've never really understood it. Then I read something recently that made more sense:

Girl cats have XX chromosomes and boys have XY. The X chromosome carries the orange or black colors, and a white color is carried on a separate, unrelated gene. So in order to display 3 colors like a calico, it would have to be a girl because it takes one X for the orange, one X for the black, and the unrelated one for the white. Does this all sound right?


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## slashboy (Aug 31, 2010)

Today I was looking at a Craigslist ad from a rescue org...which went on about how they had a super rare orange boy (because most orange cats were female.)

Hopefully that gets him adopted...but it made me feel smart and think of this thread and how much there is to learn from everyone here. Maybe I should forward a link...


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## Vivid Dawn (May 31, 2010)

At the shelter I work at, there are 3 orange tabby females and 3 orange tabby males.
None of them are "solid" tabbies, but more like a "tux"... orange body, but with white on faces, paws and chest.
*Females:*
Orange Mama is cranky, and WILL bite fingers and swat at you.
Chirpie is very snuggly and docile (I got to name her...she sounds like a bird chirping when she meows! I was calling her Birdie, but figured Chirpie would be better).
Blossom is timid, and actually had to go in a foster home because she was so stressed out with all the other cats around that she pulled nearly all the fur out of her tail! Being a long haired cat, it just looked pitiful.
*Males:*
Rudy DEMANDS your attention, and he's very LOUD about it! Follows you around and just cries and cries until you at least just look at him...of course then once he knows you notice him, and DON'T pick him up or at least pat his head, he gets even more insistent. 
Red is lovable, but patient about when he gets attention...in fact, I don't think I've ever heard him meow. 
Brutis (Brutus?) is VERY cranky when out in public with strange cats or people, but when he's in his own place he's quite lovable...loves to lick you!

I get baffled when people say that cats have no personality "like dogs do". Heck, I think sometimes they've got MORE personality, besides the wide variety.


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## Meker (Nov 8, 2010)

Man all these genetics, I've learned something new today! My cat has Oo! She's black and red! 
I was going to bring home orange/white female tabby home the other day; but instead chose my black and red/orange.


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## raecarrow (Oct 27, 2009)

mimitabby said:


> I just got told by a cat owner that orange tabbies with no white spotting are almost always female. Now that's ridiculous, I don't know where people get ideas like that.


I've always heard the opposite, that almost all COMPLETELY orange tabbies (without any white spots) are almost always male.


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