# UTI won't go away



## Tifta (Aug 19, 2011)

I have a male cat that is 1 1/2 years old, and nine pounds. I have taken Apollo into the Vet 3 times now with UTI. Luckily there are no crystals in pee just some blood, and PH is a 7 every time. He goes to pee every 5 minutes or so and will either pee a good bit or just little spots. I have taken him in and they usually give him a inflammatory shot and some antibiotics. He is fine for the first week and then he goes back to how he was. We have done the two week shot, orbax and clavamox. I also bought him cosequin, Ive given him Apple Cider vinegar, to help also. I am getting so frustrated with all this, and it kills me to see my baby in any kind of pain. Is there something I can do that might make this go away?

I have him on the Wellness complete and also have a running fountain. I am glad though he isn't peeing outside of the box! 

Please help me!


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## KatBudz (Jun 18, 2009)

Are you feeding him just dry food? I would suggest switching off of wellness, a lot of cats and dogs get urinary problems from their diets. My cats have ongoing urinary tract issues aswell, so I contacted companies to find which foods would be right for them. Ingredients and pH are the most important. You want to look for a food with a pH between 6-6.5. Natural Balance, Holistic Select, and Nature's Variety all meet that criteria. Also, it is best to look for foods with no fish if your cat is experiencing urinary issues. If you dont feed canned, I would strongly suggest to do so. My cats go crazy for Nature's Variety, they prefer that one the best. Good luck!

Also, if I were you, I would use cranberry pills instead of apple cider vinegar. I use Organika cranberry capsules. I prefer capsules because you can open them and sprinkle 1/3 of a capsule over the food, and then close it again to use for later. And its just pure cranberry powder in the capsule. If you get a pill you have all those other ingredients to bind the pill together.


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## MowMow (Nov 6, 2010)

Agreed, if you are feeding dry you should switch to wet since there are ongoing issues. 

With wet you can also add some hot water to the canned food to make it the consistency of a thick pancake batter. That will help pump more water into kitty.


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## Tifta (Aug 19, 2011)

I feed my cats 3 times a day. Hard food in morning and afternoon and wet food at night. The only issue I have about feeding them wet all the time, is their dental. I have heard that feeding wet food is the best though. Out of the three brands of food you mentioned, which one is the top of the line? I want to get them the best possible! 

You know now that I think of it, they were on blue and I switched them over to wellness, and that's when the problems started! 

Also He is suppose to stay on orbax for ten days. You think it would hurt him, if I kept him on it for a few more days?

Seriously, thanks for all the help!


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## MowMow (Nov 6, 2010)

What I did.... I went to petfooddirect.com and in the search typed in 'Grain free' Then chose the options cat food and canned. 

I sorted it by price and weeded out anything with meals, by products, any kind of fish (my cat has a history of crystals so no fish for him), excessive preservatives and any other junk I didn't want. 

I pick about 4 different brands/flavors and buy a case of each(that lasts me a little over a month between the two). That way I can rotate food every meal. I've learned what brands they dont like so I can avoid those. I try to get different ones every month so they aren't eating the same things over and over.

This month on my shelf I have By Nature Beef and beef liver, Natural Balance Duck and green pea, Merrick's Cowboy cookout and Merricks BG Beef.


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## laurief (Jun 22, 2008)

Has your vet run a culture on your cat's urine? A culture is different than a urinalysis. and it's very important to perform one in order to find out exactly which bacteria is present in the urine. Without a culture, your vet is just shooting in the dark, hoping that one of the antibiotics he prescribes will be effective against whatever bacteria may be present. A culture, on the other hand, will specifically identify the bacteria so that a targeted antibiotic can be chosen to kill it.

It's also very important that the urine used for a culture be collected using sterile, cystocentesis (a needle inserted directly into the bladder), because urine that is passed naturally through the urethra can pick up bacteria as soon as it leaves the body, resulting in a potentially inaccurate culture result.

In short, unless both a cystocentesis and a culture were performed, your vet doesn't have the information necessary to accurately treat your cat.

Laurie


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## KatBudz (Jun 18, 2009)

I would stick more towards Natural Balance, and my number one choice is Nature's Variety. Kibble does nothing for the teeth, the cat only crunches down on it quickly then swallows it, does nothing for the teeth. 

Also, one meal of canned food is not really enough. Since you only feed dry in the morning and afternoon, the cats body has to use its own water reserve to digest the kibble, making them more dehydrated. What I do is feed a small handful of kibble in the morning, and then feed canned food throughout the day. My cats are annoying that if I only feed two or three full meals a day, they wont eat them, they eat smaller amounts throughout the day. I tried going kibble free for a month and a half, and my older female got stressed out and started pulling the hair off her stomach. (she is 7 and was not used to being without any kibble). But they have always gotten more canned than kibble. 

And I agree, get your vet to run a culture, so your vet doesnt keep giving antibiotics for things that the infection isnt. I made that mistake, did a month of clavamox only to discover from a culture that my cat had a different infection and had to be treated with baytril. 

Blue Buffalo has also been known to cause urinary issues. I used to work at a pet store a few years back and I knew of 3 people whos dogs got urinary crystals from blue buffalo.


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## Tifta (Aug 19, 2011)

Last time I toke him in they told me that they were going to do a Culture. But they couldn't get any pee out of him. So they just stuck me with some antibiotics. I am going to take him in AGAIN, and make sure they give me a Culture. 

I went out and bought some Natural Balance canned and dry food. My cats love both the dry and wet. You think it would be alright to mix the dry and wet food together?

I thought wellness was a pretty good food!


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## Tifta (Aug 19, 2011)

:sigh: another question...... Is it alright to mix different brands of food together?? Because I did get natural Balance and wanted to maybe get some Natures Variety. 
Between natures Variety and Natural Balance, why do you rate it better? I want to make sure I am getting the best food for them.


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## KatBudz (Jun 18, 2009)

I prefer Nature's Variety because I like the ingredients, and they have a lot of flavors. You can go on their website and get a coupon too  

I wouldnt mix the wet with the dry together in one dish, if thats what you mean.

And yes, it is fine to mix different brands. Right now my cats are eating Nature's Variety, Natural Balance, and I still have some Royal Canin vet cans which I want to use before they expire. Their poops are fine, no issues with mixing. 

And yeah, what I do when I have to take my cats to the vet for a urinalysis, is I wake up early (for me that would be 6am) and feed them as much canned food as they will eat. And then I lock them in my small washroom, and usually I get into the vet for 9am or 10am so they have enough urine in their bladders. 

When they havent had any, I just bring them home. Some vets give the option of leaving the cat for a few hours and try again, but I personally dont feel comfortable doing that because it puts unneccesary stress on my cats.


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## laurief (Jun 22, 2008)

Tifta said:


> Last time I toke him in they told me that they were going to do a Culture. But they couldn't get any pee out of him. So they just stuck me with some antibiotics. I am going to take him in AGAIN, and make sure they give me a Culture.


Make sure to tell them that you want the urine collected by cystocentesis. Otherwise, you may get an inaccurate result from the urine culture.

Laurie


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## Vivid Dawn (May 31, 2010)

One thing that has helped Paizly, is _distilled_ water in her fountain. Not "drinking" water, as it has added minerals in it for human taste.
Our tap water is so full of junk that not only it tastes bad, but it actually coats the faucets with greenish crystals after only a couple weeks! (I have to soak my shower head in vinager once a month, or else it clogs!) So I'm certainly not putting that in her body anymore!

Her UTI issues have improved after that. I am also trying to switch to a diet of only canned food. Right now I can really only afford Nutro Max, but once work picks up, I'm hoping to go to Nature's Variety. In fact, eventually I want to go raw.


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

Distilled water should not be used for any length of time. Spring water or filtered tap water are recommended.

_Distilled water has been purified so that it does not contain any particles at all. While purity may sound good, you really should not use distilled water for drinking....Drinking only distilled water can ultimately cause deficiencies in sodium, potassium, and important trace minerals. It also becomes acidic when exposed to air. It may contain higher levels of volatile compounds such as benzenes, trihalomethanes, and trichloroethylene, as well as highly toxic “disinfection by-products.” In people, exclusive consumption of distilled water is associated with high blood pressure and heart arrhythmias. While distilled water can be valuable when used for a short-term process of detoxification, it’s not safe for long-term consumption.
_
Water Water Everywhere, but What’s a Cat to Drink? | Little Big Cat


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## Tifta (Aug 19, 2011)

laurief said:


> Make sure to tell them that you want the urine collected by cystocentesis. Otherwise, you may get an inaccurate result from the urine culture.
> 
> Laurie


Is it going to be an egregious amount of money to collect by cystocentesis? I am running out of money from all these doctor visit.  I am taking him in tomorrow! So Hope they can get it right so Apollo will start feeling better! It will be the fourth time in two months.


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## laurief (Jun 22, 2008)

I don't know what your vet will charge for a cysto, but it shouldn't be a large expense. All he has to do is insert a needle into the bladder through the belly. It'll be a lot more expensive to get an inaccurate culture run on contaminated, non-sterile urine expressed through the urethra, then possibly pay for another round of the wrong antibiotic that won't cure the UTI. It's better to pay a little more and get it done right this time.

Laurie


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## Tifta (Aug 19, 2011)

laurief said:


> I don't know what your vet will charge for a cysto, but it shouldn't be a large expense. All he has to do is insert a needle into the bladder through the belly. It'll be a lot more expensive to get an inaccurate culture run on contaminated, non-sterile urine expressed through the urethra, then possibly pay for another round of the wrong antibiotic that won't cure the UTI. It's better to pay a little more and get it done right this time.
> 
> Laurie


You have a very good point!  Thanks again


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## KatBudz (Jun 18, 2009)

Ya my vet always gets a urine sample through cysto. My vet is pretty expensive, for a cysto it costs $90 I think. I live in an area where all the vets are ridiculously expensive, so yours could be cheaper.


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## Vivid Dawn (May 31, 2010)

doodlebug said:


> Distilled water should not be used for any length of time. Spring water or filtered tap water are recommended.
> 
> _Distilled water has been purified so that it does not contain any particles at all. While purity may sound good, you really should not use distilled water for drinking....Drinking only distilled water can ultimately cause deficiencies in sodium, potassium, and important trace minerals. It also becomes acidic when exposed to air. It may contain higher levels of volatile compounds such as benzenes, trihalomethanes, and trichloroethylene, as well as highly toxic “disinfection by-products.” In people, exclusive consumption of distilled water is associated with high blood pressure and heart arrhythmias. While distilled water can be valuable when used for a short-term process of detoxification, it’s not safe for long-term consumption.
> _
> Water Water Everywhere, but What’s a Cat to Drink? | Little Big Cat


Huh...my old vet told me to use distilled. And it had helped her, until I started feeding kibble.
Now I'm feeding canned, and I do put tap water in that, but only 1/2 an ounce.
Maybe I'll look into getting a tap purifier. Kinda figured that was the same as distilling anyway...?


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

Distilled water has all the minerals stripped out of it...it is not the same as purifying tap water. Not sure why you're vet advised using it....maybe the same reason that vets recommend Science Diet...


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## Tifta (Aug 19, 2011)

I took him this morning, and it look like he is blocked up. So they are putting him on to a catheter for a couple days. They can't do a culture because he is still on his antibiotics. I really pray that it's just bacteria and not a disease. I forgot what she called it. I just really hope they can figure out what is going on with him. I am so upset right now!


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## Tifta (Aug 19, 2011)

Div said:


> OMG RIDICULOUS!!! I am so sorry!
> 
> Are you paying a consultation fee each time you go in?
> 
> Have they given you any discounts and breaks for the run around??


They have been pretty good to me. And I have gotten a few breaks with them. I just feel as if this could have gotten better if they had taken a culture early on. I just called them and they said, he had crystals and also mucus that was blocking him up. Does that sound like a bacteria infection? Or worse? He is doing better though, and he is still on the catheter. 

My girls at home are looking around and crying for their brother.


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## laurief (Jun 22, 2008)

OK, here's the thing. UTI's are actually uncommon in cats, though you'd never know it by the number of vets who automatically prescribe antibiotics any time they have a patient with any sort of urinary problem. Much more common is idiopathic or interstitial cystitis (urinary tract inflammation of unknown cause WITHOUT infection present). The visual symptoms of interstitial cystitis and UTI can be identical (frequent and painful urination, blood in urine, dribbling urine, urinating tiny amounts, litterbox avoidance, etc.). Without a urinalysis (or culture), a vet has no way of determining whether or not infection is present, and without a culture, a vet has no way of determining WHICH infective organism is present.

Crystals are a whole different thing, and ALL urine will develop crystals if it sits outside of the body for too long before being tested. So it's important to ask if your cat's urine was checked for crystals IMMEDIATELY after being collected from his body. It's also important to ask which type of crystals were found in his urine, because the remedy for one type can cause the other.

In male cats, urinary crystals can quickly become life-threatening if they clump together and cause a complete urinary blockage. Even if the blockage was only partial, it's still a very painful condition and one that can quickly accelerate to a complete blockage if the partial blockage is not passed successfully. Crystals can also abrade the interior surfaces of the urinary tract, which can leave them vulnerable to bacterial infection. A cat with crystals won't necessarily develop an infection, but he is at higher risk of doing so.

There are several management strategies that can help reduce or eliminate the occurrence of crystals and/or infection. The first is to remove kibble from the diet and feed exclusively canned - preferably mixed with plenty of warm water to increase your cat's daily water intake. The more water he takes in, the more urine he puts out. More urine flushes out crystals before they have a chance to clump together and cause blockages. In addition to mixing water into canned food and eliminating kibble from the diet, you can also increase water intake by putting more water bowls around your house, keeping the water very fresh, and maybe buying a pet fountain (if your cat prefers running water) or letting a cat-accessible faucet drip for a while several times a day.

The second strategy is to keep your litterbox(es) immaculately clean so that your boy has no reason to avoid using them or holding his urine longer than necessary. If he delays urinating because he doesn't want to use a soiled litterbox or because one of the other cats may ambush him while he's in the box, that delay may give crystals time to clump together and cause a blockage.

As far as interstitial cystitis is concerned, it is often stress-induced. If your vet runs a culture and finds no infective organisms, try to identify any sources of stress your cat may be experiencing in your home, and work to eliminate or minimize them.

Laurie


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## KatBudz (Jun 18, 2009)

Oh my gosh, I am so sorry to hear that he is blocked. I know what your going through, Sam got blocked last September and it was the scariest thing I ever went through. Didnt notice the signs because it happened a few days after I came back from holidays and he was going to the box in front of me and nothing was coming out. Rushed him to the emergency and they said his bladder was full and he was completely blocked. A few more hours and his bladder would have burst. 

Luckily you took him to the vet where they were able to see that he was blocked. Honestly, try cranberry pills, high quality canned food, and extra water added into the food, it will up water intake, flush the bladder, and prevent new crystals from forming. Make sure to look for fish free cans also. 

I hope he will be ok! Not sure if you brought him home yet, but keep an eye on him when he gets back from the vet, they can become blocked again within 24 hours of the catheter coming out. But, that does depend on the severity. Sams bladder was literally full of crystals, when they were draining his bladder it looked like sand at the bottom of the collection bag. I had to seperate him from my other cat for 3 months and kept a journal of his pee schedule, the size and time, and if any blood or mucous was present. 

After a catheterization, it is normal for them to go pee in smaller amount and more frequently, because the inflammation makes it difficult to go, and they spend extra time in the box. For Sam, it was dribbling out drop by drop, but again that depends on the severity. You caught it early before it became a full blockage, so I doubt your cat would go through what mine went through. Also, just for him, I would make fresh canned food available as often as he will eat it for the first few weeks just to make sure you flush and dissolve everything from his bladder.


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