# At the end of my rope - pooping!!



## Krisd (Jun 16, 2005)

I have a male cat that is almost 2 and has NEVER pooped in the litterbox. He just WILL NOT poop in the box. I have no idea why!!! this is what I've tried so far:

1. Took him to the vet who said he is fine and it is a behavioral problem - basically I'm on my own.

2. gradually changed litters

3. Changed litterboxes while keeping the same one - had 3 boxes for a while and he would pee in all three but poop on the floor

4. I keep the litter VERY clean - I know that is not the problem

5. Got a HUGE shallow plastic storage box (thinking maybe box was too small)

6. Changed location of box

7. Got an automatic box in addition to the regular ones

8. I always clean up the messes right away and use a pet enzyme deoderizer

He doesnt poop in the same spot, sometimes it is right outside the box and other times it is across the room (on my rug!!)

My husband wants to make him an outdoor cat or give him away - we have had it.

ANY help would be appreciated - I love my kitty and want to keep him


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## Meowmie (Jun 4, 2005)

Hi, questions for you.

Have you ever tried putting paper towel - several sheets folded to cover the bottom of the litter box - into one litter box?

Have you ever tried putting the smallest size bathroom rug (17x21) in a litter box - instead of cat litter?

Did you ever have two good size open (no hood) litter boxes with low sides for him instead of just one?

What kind of box are you using? Open or hooded? 

Are the stools regular and perfectly healthy looking? If not, how do they look like? Does he go every day? Once? More than once? If not every day, what's his schedule? Do you know whether he ever strains? 
Does he have any digestive problems you are aware of?

What are you feeding?

Is he neutered? 

Do you have other cats and/or a dog?

I suppose he is not declawed, or is he?

How old was he when you got him and where does he come from?

(Automatic boxes actually scare many cats away instead of being helpful.)

Do you or your husband scold him, punish him, yell at him once in a while or on a regular basis? (This is just for the record, not to judge you.)

Is your home a quiet one or a busy and somewhat noisy one?

Are you saying he's been doing this since day one, the day he came to live with you?


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## ChiliBean (Jun 17, 2005)

*Well..*

my kitty did that except with urinating sick i know!


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## Krisd (Jun 16, 2005)

Answers to questions:

Have you ever tried putting paper towel - several sheets folded to cover the bottom of the litter box - into one litter box? 

 No, what would this do? Maybe help with odor? 

Have you ever tried putting the smallest size bathroom rug (17x21) in a litter box - instead of cat litter? 

 No, wouldn't I have to clean the rug every time he pooped? 

Did you ever have two good size open (no hood) litter boxes with low sides for him instead of just one? 

 yes, I've had up to 3 boxes out at once. I currently have 2 

What kind of box are you using? Open or hooded? 

 open 

Are the stools regular and perfectly healthy looking? If not, how do they look like? Does he go every day? Once? More than once? If not every day, what's his schedule? Do you know whether he ever strains? 
Does he have any digestive problems you are aware of? 

 Everything appears normal, Vet says he is fine. he goes at least twice and up to 3 times a day (24 hr period) The few times I've seen him go, he appears fine. No digestive problems, no vomiting 

What are you feeding? 

 He has access to dry food all the time and I feed him an envelope of wet food a day, in the morning 

Is he neutered? 

 yes 

Do you have other cats and/or a dog? 

 No 

I suppose he is not declawed, or is he? 

 not declawed (that is a whole other problem!!) 

How old was he when you got him and where does he come from? 

 he was roughly 10 weeks when I found him on my doorstep and fell in love!! I guess he was either born a stray or was dropped off (how can anyone do that?!). I brought him the the animal control to see if he would be claimed (and we visited him regularly). They made sure he had his shots and had him neutered. I got him about 3 weeks later. Less than a month later he was very ill and stayed a month at the vet (we almost lost him) Ever since then he has been safe at home - indoor cat only with lots of toys! 


Do you or your husband scold him, punish him, yell at him once in a while or on a regular basis? (This is just for the record, not to judge you.) 

 No, I just call him poophead :wink: 

Is your home a quiet one or a busy and somewhat noisy one? 

 Well, I have an 8-year-old daughter who loves to play with Sid but other than that it is pretty quiet. 3 days a week he is alone in the house from 8 - 5 and is allowed to roam free except a couple of bedrooms with closed doors. At night he must stay in the basement where all his stuff is - otherwise he doesn't let us sleep!! 

Are you saying he's been doing this since day one, the day he came to live with you?

 yes!! He very occasionally will poop in the box and I get so excited but then he goes back to the floor (there's a nice big pile on my carpet right now! :evil: 


Thanks so much for your interest - I look forward to any suggestions!!


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## Meowmie (Jun 4, 2005)

Answers to questions: 

Have you ever tried putting paper towel - several sheets folded to cover the bottom of the litter box - into one litter box? 

No, what would this do? Maybe help with odor? 

If a cat is willing to go on paper towel, that's an indication he is looking for a soft substrate.

Have you ever tried putting the smallest size bathroom rug (17x21) in a litter box - instead of cat litter? 

No, wouldn't I have to clean the rug every time he pooped? 

This is also to find out whether a substrate preference is involved.
If a cat is willing to start using such a setup - either paper towel or rug - eventually one can begin careful retraining to regular cat litter. (In the meantime, yes, the rug needs to be rinsed and put into the washer. If a cat is willing to use the rugs it's good to have at least two or three.) 

Did you ever have two good size open (no hood) litter boxes with low sides for him instead of just one? 

yes, I've had up to 3 boxes out at once. I currently have 2 

What kind of box are you using? Open or hooded? 

open 

Are the stools regular and perfectly healthy looking? If not, how do they look like? Does he go every day? Once? More than once? If not every day, what's his schedule? Do you know whether he ever strains? 
Does he have any digestive problems you are aware of? 

Everything appears normal, Vet says he is fine. he goes at least twice and up to 3 times a day (24 hr period) The few times I've seen him go, he appears fine. No digestive problems, no vomiting 

Two-three times a day is not normal. Something is wrong here.

What are you feeding? 

He has access to dry food all the time and I feed him an envelope of wet food a day, in the morning 

Not a good, healthy diet and in all likelihood has a lot to do with the problem.

Is he neutered? 

yes 

Do you have other cats and/or a dog? 

No 

I suppose he is not declawed, or is he? 

not declawed (that is a whole other problem!!) 

Can you explain?

How old was he when you got him and where does he come from? 

he was roughly 10 weeks when I found him on my doorstep and fell in love!! I guess he was either born a stray or was dropped off (how can anyone do that?!). I brought him the the animal control to see if he would be claimed (and we visited him regularly). They made sure he had his shots and had him neutered. I got him about 3 weeks later. Less than a month later he was very ill and stayed a month at the vet (we almost lost him) Ever since then he has been safe at home - indoor cat only with lots of toys! 

What was wrong with him?

Do you or your husband scold him, punish him, yell at him once in a while or on a regular basis? (This is just for the record, not to judge you.) 

No, I just call him poophead 

Is your home a quiet one or a busy and somewhat noisy one? 

Well, I have an 8-year-old daughter who loves to play with Sid but other than that it is pretty quiet. 3 days a week he is alone in the house from 8 - 5 and is allowed to roam free except a couple of bedrooms with closed doors. At night he must stay in the basement where all his stuff is - otherwise he doesn't let us sleep!! 

What does he do? (Confinement has a lot to do with various behavior problems, that's why I need to ask.)

Are you saying he's been doing this since day one, the day he came to live with you? 

yes!! He very occasionally will poop in the box and I get so excited but then he goes back to the floor (there's a nice big pile on my carpet right now! 

A big pile. You shouldn't see big piles from a healthy cat. His digestive system is working overtime, trying to cope with food he can't handle.

So, the things to look at in an effort to find connections:
the illness and long hospital stay
diet
confinement
substrate preference

I'm wondering about the illness, whether it would tell us something.


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## Nell (Apr 7, 2005)

Meowmie said:


> Everything appears normal, Vet says he is fine. he goes at least twice and up to 3 times a day (24 hr period) The few times I've seen him go, he appears fine. No digestive problems, no vomiting
> 
> Two-three times a day is not normal. Something is wrong here.
> 
> ...


I agree that two-three times/day is more than normal, but it doesn't necessarily indicate an illness.

Also, I don't see how you've determined that the cat's diet is not a "good, healthy diet," and why that its likely that it has a lot to do with the problem. A 50/50 or all canned diet is generally better, but mostly dry and a little bit of wet is not unhealthy if the food is good quality. Many people will also argue that timed feedings are better than free-feeding, but for some people that is difficult, and if the cat is not overeating or overweight than I don't see why it would be unhealthy to free-feed.
I really doubt that this is a diet related problem.

It is possible, though, that if the cat is being fed a lower quality, food it would explain why he poops 2-3 times/day. An animal will have to eat more of a lower quality food in order to get the nutrients required, thereby causing him to poop more often.

I think it is more likely that this is a substrate related problem. The cat may have an avoidence of pooping in cat litter.

KrisD, what other types have litter have you tried? I'm assuming that you've tried different brands and probably scoopable vs clay, but have you tried organic litters, wood chips (but don't use cedar), shredded newspaper, etc? 
Have you tried using a lot of litter in the box to almost none at all?
Like Meowmie said, putting paper towl in the box (or other substrates) instead of litter may help determine the problem. If the cat will poop in a box filled with something other than cat litter, then it is a substrate problem.

Also, have you ever tried using a covered box? and have you tried placing the boxes in different areas of your home, particularly the spots he likes to use the most?

My suggestion would be to try using something other than traditional cat litter in one or more of the boxes, and to experiment with different depths of cat litter. If he poops on the floor, put it into the litterbox so he can associate with a proper place to go. Leave a little bit in the box at all times (or at least until he's developed a good habit) so he doesn't forget it.

If that fails, you could try confining him to a small area such as a bathroom or large dog crate. Give him a litterbox, food and water, toys and a comfortable bed. Cats will usually not choose to relieve themselves in their eating or sleeping area, so when confined to a small area, the only other choice he has is to use the litterbox. This is by no means meant as a form of punishment. You can let him out to play and cuddle with him, and when he has gotten used to using the litter box, let him again have free roam of a larger space and then of the whole house.

I would hate to see you have to get rid of your beloved cat or force him to live outside. I think with a lot of determination you'll be able to find a solution. Let us know how it goes


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## Meowmie (Jun 4, 2005)

Just a very quick one because unfortunately that's all I have time for right now, but we can talk more later if you like.



> Also, I don't see how you've determined that the cat's diet is not a "good, healthy diet,"


Number one, free feeding dry food is the worst thing we can do for our cats. Many serious heath problems are created that way. Timed dry food feedings are no better.
Some kind of food that comes in a pouch was also mentioned. Not a good choice either because of the ingredients in such foods.

Dry food causes problems in two ways. It channels water into the feces, causing water to be excreted in the feces instead of the urine. 
Also, hard to digest grain/carbohydrate ingredients can cause large, smelly, or in some cases frequent smaller stools, a sign of poor digestion in both cases. This can happen even from those foods people consider good quality. 

Since underlying health problems are involved in many litter box related problems, digestion would be one thing I would want to improve with the hope that it will make a difference, and also for the long-term health of the cat.


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## Krisd (Jun 16, 2005)

Answers to questions:

Have you ever tried putting paper towel - several sheets folded to cover the bottom of the litter box - into one litter box? 

 OK, I understand now what we are trying to find out. I will put a box with paper towels and another box with a bath rug in it PLUS the huge one I have with litter for a total of 3 boxes. I will let you know what he does. 


Are the stools regular and perfectly healthy looking? If not, how do they look like? Does he go every day? Once? More than once? If not every day, what's his schedule? Do you know whether he ever strains? 
Does he have any digestive problems you are aware of? 

 WOW, what is wrong with my VET?! Ok, I didn't know this was not right. I use IAMS hairball formula dry food and Friskies and/or IAMS wet pouch food. I had no idea there was a difference (except with the real cheapie stuff, which he would refuse to eat anyway) What the heck am I supposed to be feeding him?? Oh, also - he does a lot of hacking like he wants to vomit up a hairball, but he never does. This happens at any time, but it is most common right after eating the wet food. 


I suppose he is not declawed, or is he? 

 OK, the problem with claws is this - he rips up the rug all over the place. This is also the problem with us not being able to sleep. He will decide "I MUST get into that closet" and then claw at the rug until he has destroyed it completely to get in. So, you say "Why don't you just let him in?" Well, because he likes to chew holes in our clothes!!! We have actually had to replace the hall rug just because of the damage he has done - we replaced it with hardwood - HA! he can't rip that up!! :wink: 

I have tried Soft Paws (the plastic claw covers) he just rips them off, sometimes making his claws bleed. So, that does not seem to help.

Also, with the nightime confinement - He just will not leave us alone - he is jumping all over the place, clawing at the bed and the rug, getting on my kitchen counter/sink, etc... This cannot be changed. And BTW, I have tried to let him roam free for weeks to see if that stopped the pooping and all it did was make me cranky from lack of sleep (he still pooped) 

How old was he when you got him and where does he come from? 

 OK, about the illness - we have no idea other than it was a virus. He was vomiting and had diarrea and was dehydrated. It could have been from outside (before he came to my doorstep) or from the shelter - who knows? The VET just took care of him until it was over - making sure he had fluids, etc 


To answer Nell's questions:

KrisD, what other types have litter have you tried? I'm assuming that you've tried different brands and probably scoopable vs clay, but have you tried organic litters, wood chips (but don't use cedar), shredded newspaper, etc? 

 I have tried Fresh Step, Scoop Away, Cat Attract, Swheat Scoop, and Petsmart's brand. None made any difference. 


Have you tried using a lot of litter in the box to almost none at all? 

 yes 


Also, have you ever tried using a covered box? and have you tried placing the boxes in different areas of your home, particularly the spots he likes to use the most? 

 yes, I used a covered box for a short time. I have put the boxes in different places in the basement. My DH puts his foot down about having the box in any other part of the house. (he never wanted a pet. He does like Sid, and will pet and play with him, but is not attached) 

If that fails, you could try confining him to a small area such as a bathroom or large dog crate. Give him a litterbox, food and water, toys and a comfortable bed. Cats will usually not choose to relieve themselves in their eating or sleeping area, so when confined to a small area, the only other choice he has is to use the litterbox. This is by no means meant as a form of punishment. You can let him out to play and cuddle with him, and when he has gotten used to using the litter box, let him again have free roam of a larger space and then of the whole house.

 I read this in the Cat Attract litter manual also, but I don't know how this will be possible - there is no place I can confine him and if I buy a large cage my DH will kill me! 

BTW - I do let him outside on a leash sometimes - does this matter?


I am hoping we can find something out with the different stuff in the boxes. I cannot thank you all for this support. and my daughter thanks you!!!


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## Meowmie (Jun 4, 2005)

Okay, in a nutshell.

The food explains everything about the stools. Luckily there are plenty of other foods you can try and no doubt you'll find something - or several things - he'll like. 

The rug clawing and other things can all be fixed. 

The vet never told you what was wrong with him? Incredible. But not too late to do something about that. I'm guessing what it could have been, but that's not good enough. You need to find out what the diagnosis was.

The night time shenanigans. That can also be fixed. 

From the situation you describe it's quite obvious that you have a somewhat hyperactive and anxious kitty. You'll need to work toward calming him down and making him a happier, more secure cat. 
(Improved digestion will also be very helpful.)
Hopefully, when you do that he'll also become friends with the litterbox.
This is by no means a hopeless situation.


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## lotocats (May 5, 2003)

*Maybe needs another cat*

This little cat sounds like he needs another cat as a playmate and maybe to show him how to act likea normal cat. He just seems to not know what is right and wrong and he's trying to entertain himself and getting into trouble doing it. Try getting him an e-smart ultimate scratching post. I just discovered these and they are fabulous. All my cats love it. Even the ones who use to like to claw the sofa. They leave the sofa alone now.


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## Trevor (Jan 11, 2005)

When he poops on the floor, right away pick it up and pick him up and take them both to the litter box. With the cat in the litter box, lay the poop next to him and gently grab his paws and "help" him bury it. I did this with my friends cat--who was having the same problem--and within a couple days he was going in the litter on his own.


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## BoscosMum (Apr 29, 2004)

Is your cat pooping upstairs or downstairs?

If he is pooping upstairs...then it is simple. 
Cat wants a litterbox on the upper level!


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## Krisd (Jun 16, 2005)

Sid is pooping downstairs

helping the cat bury the poop - does that work if he's not a kitten anymore? he buries his pee fine. I might try this anyway - getting desperate!! 

I now have 3 boxes with litter and he pees in all three, but still poops on the rug! AAAAAAAAAAAaahhhhhhhhhh!!


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## Nell (Apr 7, 2005)

How are things going so far? Have you been able to make any progress in the last week?


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## lotocats (May 5, 2003)

Did you try putting the rug in the litter box so he'll get use to getting into the box? My baby who was using the rug, stopped and is now using the box. I took someones advice and put paper towels in the box without the litter. After 2 days of using that I switched to the litter and now she's using all the boxes throughout the house.


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## Krisd (Jun 16, 2005)

Yes I did try putting different things in the litterbox - a rug remnant, a bath rug, paper towels, no litter at all...

He would just avoid those boxes completely - not even pee in them.

So now I have Cat Attract in 3 boxes. One huge one, a medium one and a small one. The huge one and medium one are in the same room but opposite sides of the room. He has pooped in those 3 times in the last 2 weeks. Which is a record for him. But he is still pooping on the floor!!

The small box is in the other room and he never seems to bother with that one.

I have changed his food to all Fancy Feast grain free - he gets one can in the morning and one in the evening. This seemed to reduce the amount of poop. He has no dry food at all now.

I have put newspaper on the floor all around the boxes and sometimes he goes on it and sometimes he finds a part of the rug that is not covered!! I'm working on covering the whole area but it is difficult because we need to use that room!

What is his problem?!


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## BoscosMum (Apr 29, 2004)

ok.....this stinks!

You said the vet said he was ok....and they did a routine fecal test?
Can you call your vet and ask them to do another fecal for intenstinal parasites...those test are different then the basic worms test?

Just an idea....


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## Ianthe (Jun 7, 2004)

I'm sort of joining in late here, but your problem sounds like a case we had at the vet where I worked on my last 2 days there. Same kind of problem, owners were at there wits end, anyway, it turned out the cat had Irritable Bowel Disease (IBD) They out him on some antibiotics, as a precaution, an antacid, and are going to play around with his food- first they are trying Hill's I/D......anyway, just thought I would throw this in the ring!


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## Krisd (Jun 16, 2005)

Here's an update:

I bought one of those large plastic mats for office chairs and put it in front of one of the boxes. That is where he likes to poop now. At least it saves my carpet!!

He will alternate pooping on the plastic and in the boxes. Mostly on the plastic.

I have the Cat Attract litter in both boxes.

Is this something I'll just have to live with??


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## Meowmie (Jun 4, 2005)

I would continue to think about the diet because even if it's not readily apparent, a digestive problem might still be involved. 
I would also ask a behaviorist to make a house call and go over everything else with me with particular attention to possible stress factors I might not be aware of myself. 

These problems are never really easy to solve. And I've seen instances where the slightest amount of stress or a health problem resulted in a serious setback at a time when treatment and special measures were already working rather well. 

If he poops in front of one of the boxes this can mean that everything is still not quite right with the boxes as far as he is concerned. Hopefully a behaviorist would have some ideas regarding what the problem could be and tell you what else to try.


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## jazzo (Apr 19, 2005)

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!, my cat pooped in my tub for the 2nd time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! At least I can wash my away!!, I feel for you!!


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## Krisd (Jun 16, 2005)

Here's an update:

3 weeks ago Sid smeared poop all over the rugs in both rooms in the basement. Then the next night did it again. Now, I've been cleaning his poop off my floor for 2 years - so this was it for me!!

I made Sid an outdoor cat. In the morning I feed him his wet food (he has dry food and water all night in the basement) and then I let him put. We did put a collar on him with a tag. When I get home from work I let him back in for the night and before we all go to bed he goes in the basement.

I have not had ANY poop in my house for 3 weeks!!!! Sid is the happiest cat I've ever seen.

The problem is (since I live in MA) that I'm not sure what to do in the winter... it can get VERY cold here.


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## Palanggingging (Oct 10, 2004)

I live in MA too. The cat is going to need to be inside at least part of the time.

Did you ever try putting him in a large cage just big enough for the litter box and a place for the bowls and to lay down? Why would your DH not like that? Its better than poop on the floor.


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## nklincoln (Aug 2, 2005)

I know this is really weird but I use puppy housebreaking pads for Molly Girl. If she poops or pees it is easy to clean up. She will poop in her box but only will pee on the pads.


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## pushka (Oct 5, 2005)

Hiya, my family acquired our 2nd cat/kitten a few weeks ago...she is approximately 15 wks old, and has been using her litter tray superby, as far as we know.

At first we used to move the litter box from downstairs, up to my daughter's bedroom at night, as she slept in the room with my daughter, and then move it back downstairs during the day...but I stopped this fairly rapidly, so as not to confuse Kitty...all has been great until this week...

My daughter tonight, caught Kitty pooing on a black bin liner at the side of her bedroom...not where the litter tray used to be placed. There was also evidence that she had pooed there previously, so now my daughter must do a thorough search of her room to find anymore evidence...and it might be wise to search other rooms too...just in case!

She has been using her litter tray as normal, however, so I'm really confused as to why this has happened, unless she couldn't get out the room quickly enough to go downstairs to her tray?

My 2 cats eat around 2/3 pouches of Whiskers cat food per day, each, at the moment...the kitten is greedier than the elder cat, who never had a big appetite...and the kitten does produce quite a lot of poo in 24 hours...I thought this was just normal for the amount of food she was eating tho...

Please advise if I am right in believing you can place a substance on the floor, where the cat has either peed or pooed, which will deter it from going there again to poo...


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## BoscosMum (Apr 29, 2004)

pushka...
I would put a litter tray back into your daughters room right away.

Now that you have 2 cats rather than 1....you will need more litter trays anyways. It is also easy for a young and new kitten in the home to get confused and if the 2 cats are not the best of friends yet...
then it is natural for the new kitten to go in the room where she feels the most comfortable and safe. 

On top of all that....take a stool sample to get checked for worms and parasites. Hope that helps.


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## pushka (Oct 5, 2005)

Boscos Mum,

Thanks for that great advice, which I will be following...definitely need to take her to vets soon anyway, for jabs and such...


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