# 10 week old kitten plays rough, help?



## miralee (Nov 29, 2014)

Hello, I'm hoping to get some advice/experience on my situation. 

I took in a stray kitten about 4 weeks ago (kitten was estimated to be around 6 weeks at the time - I know he was too young to be away from his mother but he was found outside and no owners have come forward). He's 10 weeks now.

I have two other cats - a 17 year old female and a 3 year old female. I took in the kitten hoping he could be a friend/playmate for my 3 year old cat, who is very bonded to me. She gets very upset when I leave the house, will cry at the front door and when I'm gone just sits on the steps for hours watching the door waiting for me to come back. I had been thinking about getting another cat for a while because of this, imagining her sitting by the door all day was breaking my heart. So when I was asked if I could take the kitten I said yes. 

The problem I'm running into is the kitten is VERY rough when he plays (normal I guess because he spent a few weeks without playmates), and he plays constantly. I get that is the way kittens are, but he bit me pretty hard just now (drew blood with his teeth for the first time). It's play but it really hurts. He's constantly trying to get the 3 year old cat to wrestle with him but she doesn't want to - and I get why, although he's not as rough with her as he is with me from what I've seen. He tries to bother the older cat too but she is quick with her smacking paw lol and he is mostly leaving her alone now. 

So I'm feeling rather discouraged and anxious at the moment. His biting and scratching me is really getting to me, I can't touch him 90% of the time because I know he'll sink his teeth in. I'm really worried about that when he gets older and bigger. And I'm worried about my three year old cat. She's my baby who has gotten me through the worst times in my life, and I wanted to make her life better not worse. She has stopped sitting on my lap in the evenings because the kitten bothers her.

Is there anything I can do to help calm the kitten down? How do I get him to stop biting and scratching me? Is this something he will just outgrow? I play with him for about a half hour everyday where he runs really hard and only stop when he's laying down and panting. He spends nights in his safe room because I sort of need a break from him, but he has the run of the house for most of the day. And is it likely that he and the 3 year old are ever going to work it out and learn to play together? They can sit side by side and she even tolerates him touching her gently, it's when he pounces on her and tries to wrestle that she gets upset and runs and he just thinks that's part of the game.

Thanks in advance for any help/information you can give me!


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## catloverami (Jul 5, 2010)

Kitty missed his lessons with his momacat and litter mates on how to control his bite and likely claws too. It's too bad that your 3 y.o. female wants nothing to do with him, but who can blame her? Did she ever have a litter herself? Perhaps not, so she doesn't really know how to discipline him. So_ you're_ going to have to be momacat for a while and teach him some tough love. When he bites, say "Ow!" loudly, and if he doesn't back down and continues, you are going to have to do what his momacat would and put a neck bite on him with two fingers giving him a pinch, hard enough to make him squeal a bit. When he backs off stroke him on his head and tell him "good boy". That's what his momacat would do.....well she wouldn't _say_ "good boy", but she would lick him with her tongue on the top of his head and cheeks. You may have to give him a few pinches if he doesn't get the message right away that if he bites, he's going to get the same back. Give him _lots of affection when he is being a good boy and behaving and not biting you_. But you will have to draw the line at his biting you as his little sharp baby teeth can puncture the skin and you could get an infection. It's tough love, but it's what his momacat would do at his age.

As far as his relationship with the 3 y.o., I've very positive about her because you say they "can sit side by side and she even tolerates him touching her gently". When they are in that mood, you could try playing with them together with a "Da Bird" type of toy, or just dragging a cord around. I think she will start playing with him, if he learns to control his bite, especially if she gets up her confidence to bite him back. Hope some of this is helpful. All the best....and remember your the momacat now for a little while until he learns better manners.


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

To add a quick add on to what Catloverami said, you can also trim the sharp little points, off of his toenails, both front and back!
At the age he is, he has tons of kitten energy! Extra play, to help burn some of that off every day, would help too!
Good Luck!
Sharon


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## Jenny bf (Jul 13, 2013)

There is great advice from the others. From my experience you probably need to do more than half hour play a day, probably three plus sessions as they are like Dracell batteries, they recover back fast. When Kiki was little we did half hr in morning, evening and right before bed. Your 3 yr old is still probably abit shocked at hor forward the kitten is and at some point just like the elder cat did he will get boxed ears to say " show some respect". They will work it out. Lulu disliked Kiki intently when she first arrived. Lots of the intro steps she would not interact with at all. It took 3 months before she tolerated staying in the same room without hissing and slapping so yours are ahead on that trend. A few weeks later they began to play chase games together. A few months later we started to see cat kisses ( nose to nose touching). Its 15 months since Kiki joined our home but its only in the last 6 weeks that Lulu will not join in games with Kiki and I like Da Bird and throwing the mice for catching etc.
With the biting and scratching the making Ow sounds really helped. 
When he has is neutering that may be a help as well


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## Marcia (Dec 26, 2010)

Just as the others have said, you will be the playmate, mom and teacher to this youngster. A loud OWWW! that sounds like a stuck pig will help. I mean a really, really loud yelp. That sends the signal that they have bitten too hard and the feed back is a tight pinch or "bite" back just as mom would. 

The very BEST thing for him is another kitten his age. If you could afford it please consider this. They will keep each other company and learn from each other and most importantly practice their hunting skills on each other!


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## miralee (Nov 29, 2014)

Thanks so much for your advice! I am going to try pinching him. I've tried ignoring him (doesn't work at all!), yelping, saying no firmly, and I've even scruffed him a few times when he grabs on and will not let go. The scruffing seemed to just key him up more like 'oh yay she's finally fighting back!'. The kitten doesn't bite my brother at all though and when I asked him why my brother said every time the kitten bit him my brother would bite him back on the ear! And well, it actually seems to have worked, but I would be too worried about hurting him to try that myself.

I don't know if my 3 year old ever had a litter. She is super sweet and well behaved though so I know she had a wonderful momcat at some point. She just showed up in our backyard one day and moved in a few months later once I had gained her trust. She actually had sort of a break through with the kitten last night, she saw him sitting by the couch and actually walked TOWARDS him with a little trilling noise and tried to touch noses with him. Of course he blundered over and messed it up by bonking noses and then trying to wrestle with her, but she hissed at him and gave him a good smack. And when she walked away he didn't chase her! I've had a few really tiring days with the two of them not getting along at all but maybe I just need to give them more time before I start worrying. 

I have a mouse on a string type toy (I think it might be called Da Mouse actually?) that the little kitten loves. I've been stopping playtime when he lays down panting but I think you're all right that I should be going longer. I did a half hour all at once last night (I've been doing two or three ten minute sessions though out the day, I'm going to start extending them). He wouldn't run hard the whole time but just when I was about to stop he'd have another burst of energy. He's gentler when he's tired so I didn't get any more serious bites or scratches last night. 

I think I've learned my lesson about kittens, they should definitely come in pairs. I'm really hesitant to add another cat to this situation though, I guess I'll have to think about it if he doesn't improve.

Thanks for your advice!


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## Jenny bf (Jul 13, 2013)

Jenny bf said:


> but its only in the last 6 weeks that Lulu will not join in games with Kiki and I like Da Bird and throwing the mice for catching etc.


Sorry this should have said WILL join in. It was a fab breakthrough. It just took time and Lulu chose that moment she was ready


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Miralee,
Follow Catloverami's directions, Very, Very Closely! 
Your reaction must happen Immediately, so your little boy can tie in the 'Cause and Effect' of his nipping/biting!

I would also continue to say 'Oww' or 'Yelp' at the same time, he will eventually tie it all in...

The 'Pinching' that Catloverami is talking about has to be done correctly and quickly...
Followed by the Petting as soon as he's backed off!

If done correctly, you'll have a happy kitty, that doesn't fear hands, and has learned that 'Oww' means 
'To rough, back off'!
Keep us posted on your progress!
Sharon


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Miralee,
I also meant to add, that your 3 year old, trilling at him, and approaching him first, is a Very good sign! Her 'smacking' him is normal, she's setting down the rules, of what he may, and may not do! 
I think they'll do fine, in the near future!
Sharon


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## miralee (Nov 29, 2014)

Well so far the pinching hasn't worked LOL. It doesn't seem to hurt him at all. I'm doing it HARD, I've even used my nails to pinch him. He just gets crazy eyes, arches his back, and attacks again harder. I think he thinks it's just me finally participating in the game. I've started hissing at him when he bites (I sound CRAZY! LOL) which at least gets his attention. 

He doesn't like it when I blow in his face so that gets him to let go sometimes. I can't always reach to blow air in his face though so I'm trying a sort of 'bite' by taking all five finger nails and poking him in the side when he bites me (I hope I'm describing that well). I'm doing it HARD in my opinion, and I feel really bad but it seems to be working. Doing it a couple times in a row made him stop attacking my arm and go back to attacking his toys, so I'm going to try that and see if it makes a difference. I can't reassure him by petting him afterwards though, if my hands go near him again it's like too much temptation and he goes back to play/attacking. It's really crazy, about 10% of the time when I pet him he purrs and seems happy, but most of the time if my hands go anywhere near him he swipes at me and tries to bite. He's just in non-stop play mode.

This morning I played with him for about half an hour, the 3 year old cat watched for most of it. She was crouched down really close by and as long as he didn't try to go for her she didn't seem at all bothered by him. She's not really interested in the pretend mouse but hopefully I can find something they both want to play with. I think she really does want to play with him, if only he wasn't so rough with her! I so hope he grows out of that. I'm going to be making an appointment to get him neutered ASAP, I don't know if that will calm him down any. Hopefully! LOL. 

Thanks everyone!


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

The thing that worked with my bratz was ignoring them. Cali was my biter, and I would yelp, and put her down away from me, and keep brushing her away. She HATED being ignored.


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## miralee (Nov 29, 2014)

Ignoring was the first thing I tried with him, but it really has no effect on him. If I just freeze he just keeps on biting and scratching me. He seems to start biting HARDER just trying to get a response. If I try to push him away that's even better in his opinion because he thinks I'm finally wrestling back! So he jumps back and attacks harder. If I try to pull my arms away he chases them or clamps all his claws into me and holds on. Even standing up and walking away had him chasing me attacking my feet and legs. Even stepping on his tail (by accident!) hasn't gotten him to stop attacking feet. 

To be honest he's been kind of intense. He doesn't draw blood every time but man does it HURT. My Dad actually asked me the other day if I thought there might be something wrong with him. I don't think there is, he's just got a lot of energy and can't seem to stop himself from biting if you touch him while he's in the wrong mindset. I'm really hoping he outgrows that.

We had another good play session (he was wiped out after about 20 minutes) and now he's asleep by my feet. Periodically while we were playing I'd reach my hand out and let him sniff it, sort of practicing a polite nose touch, and he didn't try to bite once! Progress! He did swipe at me once but his claws were in so I didn't reprimand him. I kept telling him what a good boy he was whenever he let me pull my hand away without trying to bite.


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## KsKatt (Jul 6, 2014)

Are you playing with him with your hands? If so STOP! Always use a dangle, toss or roll toy. Laser pointers are a Godsend! Never, ever use any part of your body. You need to leave, to physically walk away. If he chases you, put him in a different room and close the door. It is up to you to make him know the playing is over, for that session.:kittyball


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## miralee (Nov 29, 2014)

Oh no, I'm not using my hands at all except to hold or throw toys. I have various balls I throw for him, a mouse on a string type toy, some dangly feathers on a stick, that kind of thing. I have some stuffed toys I throw around for him that he likes gnaw on and kick. It doesn't seem to matter - one minute he's playing with the toy at the end of the stick, then randomly he just decides to go for my hands/arms (if I'm sitting down), or my legs/feet if I'm standing. If he's after my arms and I raise them above my head to get them away from him he'll even run around and start biting/clawing at my back. 

I think he's getting better about not biting though! I'm thinking him biting hard enough to draw blood yesterday was an accident, because thankfully he hasn't done that again. Hasn't drawn blood with his nails either, but we did cut them last night (that made a huge difference, but cutting a kitten's tiny nails is not easy!).


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## TranquilityBlue (Nov 13, 2014)

KsKatt said:


> Laser pointers are a Godsend!


... if you're lucky enough to have a kitty that chases them, of course! Jasper has NEVER responded to the laser, even at the peak of his super hyper kitten crazy stage! Would have made my life a whole lot easier if he had


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## catloverami (Jul 5, 2010)

Glad to hear you're making some progress with him. Yes, getting him really tired with longer play sessions is a big part of it. A tired kitty is a good kitty. :wink: You have to figure out what works, and since the pinch didn't and the five finger poke did, go with it. I'm somewhat surpised that blowing in his face did work, as my experience with that is it usually makes a kitty mad and aggressive, but hey, if it works....carry on. He sounds like already he's picking up that biting and claws out aren't to your liking, so think he will continue to improve. It's encouraging is your younger girl is "trilling" at him and giving him a nose kiss, and then disciplining him with a swat when he went beyond her limit (of no wrestling). All very good signs. Ask your vet when he should be neutered. Most male kitties can be neutered at 2 mos. of age if they weigh 2lbs. Good luck! All the best!
:kittyball


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## KsKatt (Jul 6, 2014)

miralee, I'm so glad, I was hoping you knew better!:wink:

TranquilityBlue, you have a point (pardon the pun!). I have too many kitties that are too smart for the dangle toys, even the dancer. They may play briefly, then their eyes follow the string, straight up to my hand. Then my hand is the toy, and that just ain't gonna fly!

miralee, your boy might be an ADHD kitten. Yes, some are! They might take a little longer to catch on, but once they learn how to focus that active litle brain, they're great!:thumb


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## miralee (Nov 29, 2014)

My 3 year old cat is like that. She figured out I was controlling the laser pointer in about five minutes. They were a fun minutes though LOL. I never replaced it but maybe I should get one from the dollar store. She's too smart for the dangle toys too, she pretty much just likes balls and puzzle toys with treats inside. And the occasional game of chase with me, but I'm way too slow for her to have much fun. 

You were right to ask about the hand play though. I've NEVER done it with the kitten, he was a terror from the start and I knew it would make him worse. I've done it with the 3 year old cat when she was younger though. She'd grab my hand with her front paws, bunny kick my arm with her back paws, bite my fingers, and when we were done playing I wouldn't have a single scratch or bite mark. She's such a gentle, careful cat. I really feel bad the kitten is being such a brat to her.

I don't remember where I heard about blowing in kittens faces when they bite. It works well as long as he's close enough for me to do it. Poking him is working GREAT, he's stopped himself from biting me several times this evening. He gets the crazy eyes, bounces over to my arm, slooooowly reaches out his paw like he's going to grab me to bite... then he looks up at me and seems to reconsider it and goes bouncing away. He is a lot cuter when he's not beating me up! LOL Honestly it's a huge relief, my biggest fear looking at all the scratches and bite marks on my arms is 'what kind of damage is he going to do when he weighs ten pounds?'.


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## Marcia (Dec 26, 2010)

10cats2dogs said:


> Miralee,
> I also meant to add, that your 3 year old, trilling at him, and approaching him first, is a Very good sign! Her 'smacking' him is normal, she's setting down the rules, of what he may, and may not do!
> I think they'll do fine, in the near future!
> Sharon


^^^^^^ dittos what Sharon said!! :thumb


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## miralee (Nov 29, 2014)

I just want to say the biggest thank you. He's been out of his room running around for a few hours now and his behavior towards me is dramatically better. He's bit me a few times but he is using a lot less force, I've only had to poke him hard once and after that when he bites I just say "No!" and tap him on the side and he stops immediately. It really seems like he finally gets it that he's not supposed to bite and he's trying to remember not to. 

He's even stopped himself from biting a couple times! I had to pick him up to get him to stop biting on my head phones, he rolled over onto his back and grabbed my hand with his paws (claws in!!!) but when he went to bite me he stopped himself and then let go and let me pick him up calmly. I'm blown away that he's responding so fast to the 'tough love' approach. He's such a rough and tumble little guy I think all the other things I tried just didn't register with him. 

The other cats both watched his play session this morning, which I thought was a good sign. Moxie, my 3 year old cat, has had to hiss and smack him a few times, but if he pounces at her and doesn't make contact she's started just ignoring him. They spent a few minutes side by side watching a bunny in the back yard. I'm really relieved that things seem to be improving. I've had no new bite or scratch marks since yesterday! Yay!


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## KsKatt (Jul 6, 2014)

I cannot believe we have gone this long without a single picture!:wink:


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## miralee (Nov 29, 2014)

Oh I never even thought of that! I made a new thread in the Meet my kitten section with a few pictures. I took about 40 more that turned out way too blurry to use! I'll have to try again when he finally falls asleep.

http://www.catforum.com/forum/41-meet-my-kitty/329314-10-week-old-little-terror.html#post2495370


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## BotanyBlack (Apr 6, 2011)

sounds like things are going good. Another trick. If he bites and doesn't release. Press your hand/arm toward him farther into his mouth. You don't want to give him whiplash.. just make him uncomfortable. most cats hate this and release.


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## miralee (Nov 29, 2014)

Well things have been sort of up and down with the kitten. The positive side is that his behavior towards me is still much improved. He's much gentler, and isn't biting nearly so much. So that's all positive.

On the negative side he's still going after Moxie, my 3 year old cat a lot. He pounces on her, chases her, bites her (I saw them running past me a few minutes ago and he had his teeth clamped onto her side while she tried to get away. He managed to pull out a clump of her fur). This is really still concerning me. 

My oldest cat has no problems with him, when he misbehaves around her she whacks him until he stops. She's very dominant with him, if he's in her way she makes him move and she isn't at all nervous of him. He's learned to leave her alone, and even when he does try to get her to play it's fairly gentle (he can't resist trying to touch her big poofy tail) and he gives up easily. But with the 3 year old he just doesn't stop, because she's not reprimanding him hard enough. She will swat him but she's too gentle, it doesn't phase him, and then she just tries to run away. Which turns the whole thing into a game to the kitten, who runs after her, pounces on her, he's even pushed her over a few times to try to get her to wrestle. Last night she was jumpy and nervous, so I put him in his room early to give her some time to calm down. 

So I guess I'm wondering what I should do here... Should I intervene when he gets too intense with her? And if so what should I do? I'm very sad that they're still not getting along, things seem to be worse with them and not better unfortunately.


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## Marcia (Dec 26, 2010)

I for one would intervene if the older cat is distressed. I hate to use it but a few strategically placed water bottles with a quick squirt might work. Or try an empty can with coins in it - a loud rattle will break the moment.


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## catloverami (Jul 5, 2010)

He's only going to get more rambunctious as he continues to grow, so it's important to get him to understand manners and limits now. Yes you should intervene by distracting him if he's upsetting your girl, as you don't want her to be afraid of him---too bad she isn't learning the lessons from your older cat how to put him in place. So use a toy to distract him, or as_ Marcia_ suggested coins in a can, and/or put him in a short time out. Some kitties can just be little hellions (especially males), so I think you've got one of those. They are a lot of work because you _will _have to intervene more. But by not intervening, as he gets bigger and stronger he will be a problem if he hasn't learned any limits to his aggressive behavior.


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## miralee (Nov 29, 2014)

I've started instituting time outs. I don't want him to have a negative association to going back in his safe room so I'm putting him in the bathroom whenever my other cat hisses and swats at him and he doesn't back off. He's fast and thinks the whole thing is a game so I hope he's going to understand why he's going into the bathroom. Sometime it takes a few moments to catch him.

I hate to say it but I tried the spray bottle method. It works great on him, doesn't scare him but bothers him enough he stops doing whatever he's doing, but unfortunately it really terrifies the 3 year old cat. Just the unexpected spray noise is enough to scare her so a can of coins wouldn't work either. 

I am really concerned about what's going to happen when he's older. So far the 3 year old cat's routine is a little interrupted but she's not too upset unless he starts trying to jump on/bite her. If he gets a lot bigger and keeps doing that I don't know. I'm going to keep up with the time outs and see what I can do about getting him neutered before he reaches 6 months, and hope he calms down with her. If he could just stop trying to wrestle with her things would be great!


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## miralee (Nov 29, 2014)

Well there's no improvement between the kitten and the older cat. Time outs haven't worked - I let him out, he goes straight after her again. I'm doing about two+ hours of intense playtime with him a day (with laser pointer, mouse toy, etc.) but he thinks she's a much better toy and I can't always distract him. Yesterday my 3 year old cat felt so harassed she wouldn't go to the litter box and took a poop on the floor. I've been trying to find information on how long the kitten is likely to have this much energy, and people keep saying the first year to the first two years. I'm really downtrodden - I can't subject the 3 year old cat to this for even one year, much less two. 

I'm seriously starting to consider I might have to rehome the kitten. I cried last night after I put him in his room before bed and he started whining to come out. This isn't fair to him either, he's just doing what kittens do and I know it's not his fault. But I've been home all day the past few weeks, and giving him and the other cats my full attention, and I just can't get this under control. I'm hoping to go back to work in the next little while and I have no idea what's going to happen when I'm not here. The kitten can't stay locked in his room 18 hours a day, and I can't let him out while I'm not here to protect my other cat. I'm feeling really terrible right now. 

I'm going to make some calls today and try to find a place that will neuter him. I don't care how far I have to drive, if it helps even a little bit it will be worth it. Then I have to see what happens and figure out what I'm going to do based on that. I don't know if it's possible for me to get another kitten right now and take care of four cats, but I'll have to consider that before I seriously consider rehoming the kitten. Please don't judge me, I feel at this point like I've tried everything else and things are just getting worse. I have to think about what's best for everyone at this point.

Thanks for all your help.


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Oh Wow Miralee!
You do seem to have a tiny terror on your hands...
Is there any way you could install a screen door, to an inside door opening? 
That would keep everyone safe, and help to keep the kitten from feeling isolated...
It would also allow your three year old to observe safely, this mini mighty mite!
I hope Librarychick sees this, and has some ideas for you!
You could even PM her!
Hang in there!
Sharon


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## ChaplainSD (Jan 12, 2015)

It's possible that your 3 year old has always played the follower role to your oldest cat and is used to being the victim. Maybe you can try to boost the confidence of your 3 year old so that she will stand up to the brazen kitten. She could be feeling a little down with the introduction of a new housemate such as that she has moved down in pecking order.


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## miralee (Nov 29, 2014)

OMG 10cats2dogs, THANK YOU! I can't install a screen door, but an extra tall baby gate should be perfect! He is not a very good jumper so it should be months before he's able to jump that high. And if he starts being able to climb over it I can always get another one to go ontop. I can't BELIEVE I didn't think of that myself. I'll feel so much better having to leave him in his room if he can see out and interact with the other cats. And it certainly can't hurt if the 3 year old is able to see/smell/interact with him without being chased and pounced on. Might even help her confidence? I can only hope at this point. I've already ordered it from amazon so it should be here tomorrow. 

I really don't want to give up on him. I know he CAN learn to behave, the way he acts around the 17 year old cat proves that. The excess energy doesn't bother me - if he needed to be played with 6 hours a day I'd do it! It's just his insistence of going after Moxie that can't go on. She's always been submissive to the 17 year old, and it's never been a problem. She just gets out of the way and we're all happy. But she's trying her usual get out of the way behavior and not getting any relief from him. She spends 90% of her time right now hiding in her bed on the shelf above my desk (because the kitten can's get up there - yet). It's so upsetting because she started out trying to be friends with him - approaching him for nose touches, trilling at him, trying to play nice, but he only wants to pounce and bite and wrestle. Now she just runs from him. Maybe it sounds crazy but I'm home all day and I miss her! She used to be my shadow but now she rarely comes down when he isn't in his room ): 

I have broken out the spray bottle again, the 3 year old is already running away from the kitten so at this point I feel like it can't hurt. I feel bad spraying him but he's certainly not scared of the water. He doesn't like it, and it completely distracts him while he cleans himself off, which is what I need to redirect his attention from Moxie. 

When I was at the pet store I noticed that they have calming treats and even a calming paste for cats when they are stressed. Does anyone have any experience with products like that? Do they actually work, or is it snake oil? I'm ready to try anything at this point, either to boost Moxie's confidence or to get the kitten to calm down.


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## Nuliajuk (Oct 25, 2014)

Can you growl? Kittens pay attention to growling as their mothers do it when they want to grab their attention. If your kitten is pouncing on a body part, go very still and growl. It's also good for teaching them to not scratch the furniture.
You might want to buy him a stuffed toy about the same size as him to play wrestle with.


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## KsKatt (Jul 6, 2014)

Nuliajuk, reminded me of those toy mice that run on batteries, I believe. Those things can look alive! I wonder how distracting that might be!:lol:


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## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

There's no point in growling. Kittens know you aren't a cat - so it'll just be weird. To be fair, that might make them temporarily stop what they're doing, but there are better ways, IMO to distract them.

Kittens always want to play rough, that's just what they're about. I'd suggest trying to redirect him to toys, and keeping him apart from your other girl unless you're willing to run interference - keep them completely apart will only put off the issue. Trust me on that one. *sigh*

In the mean time, start working on clicker training with the kitten. The two best things to teach a kitten, IMO are 'come' and 'touch'. Look up puppy training clicker videos on youtube for how to do it - the basics are the same for teaching a kitten, but you keep the sessions shorter. Do LOTS of 'come' practice, and eventually you can get him to the point that he'd rather come to you than chase the other cat - it IS possible, I did this with Muffin.

Don't use the spray bottle - go get him. The spray bottle is already not deterring him, and if he (when he) decides he really doesn't care you'll have no backup plan to use. It's your job to step in the middle and find something more interesting for the kitten to do. And it DOES have to be more interesting or it won't keep his attention. Use treat balls for his meals (if he's kibble fed, if not use a small amount of healthier treats, like purebites), do training with him, or take him into another room and use a wand toy or laser to run his energy out.

Ideally, try to tucker him out BEFORE he starts pestering the other cats. A tired kitten is a good kitten  Above all, remember - he WILL get bigger, and he'll grow out of it if you work at it steadily.


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## miralee (Nov 29, 2014)

Nuliajuk - unfortunately growling doesn't phase him, the 3 year old cat growls at him all the time. The only one he listens to is my 17 year old cat - one growl from her is all it takes to get him to leave her alone. Of course that's because he knows she'll back the growl up with a good butt kicking! LOL Me growling doesn't have the same effect. 

KsKatt - he actually has a little automatic toy called the hex bug nano! I should look into other automatic toys. I think there are some from a company called frolicat - does anyone have experience with that brand? Thanks!

librarychick - thanks for your advice. I hadn't thought of clicker training him - my other cats were both frightened of the clicker noise, but he's not frightened of anything so it might be worth a try. I've never used a spray bottle on a cat before, but I am using it on him as a last resort and it is already shortening the amount of time he spends chasing the other cat so at least she can get away. When he gets wet he immediately has to stop and clean himself off. He's faster than me and completely fearless so trying to 'go get him' results in me chasing him chasing the other cat all over the house. It just ends up scaring her worse, and does nothing to deter him. She has pooped on the floor because he just will not stop chasing/attacking/biting her when she's on the floor. Distracting him with toys when he's already chasing her almost never works. He already gets two or more hours of intense play every day (intense meaning I'm making him run and jump almost the whole time) and between intense play sessions he gets more light play like throwing toys, throwing kibble, a treat ball when I put him in his room, etc. I cannot seem to physically tire him out for more than half an hour at a time, even though I'm here all day. I really hope you are right the he will outgrow this, because if he doesn't I know I will have to rehome him. It's not fair that my other cat can't set foot on the floor without being attacked, and it's not fair that he has to spend so much time locked in his room. Thank you for the clicker training suggestion, I will have to see if I still have it and give it a try with him. 

Thanks for the suggestions! I have put him in his room to give the other cats a break for now (and because I need a break). No luck finding a vet who will neuter him - but one place I called was willing to neuter at four months. So I will be getting him neutered in a little over a month.


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## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

We have a frolicat - the bolt I think. It looks like a bowling pin. It's great.

It sounds to me like he's bored - so the training will help. Teach him obstacle courses (using a touch stick as a guide). Mental stimulation is very important for smart active kittens.

Don't feel bad putting him away sometimes - it will help him learn to calm himself (which seems like a skill he needs to practice...lol), and it will save your sanity. I'd also make a point of giving him and your 3 year old treats together as often as possible - put the older one up on a table or something (so she feels safer), but do it a few times a day. (One treat is fine, even just use kibble and make a fuss over it.) It's the eating together bit that will create positive associations.

Unfortunately, the bad news is that neutering is unlikely to help. Neutering WILL calm down a cat that has hormones effecting their behavior - your boy is too young for that to be a factor. It WILL keep him from getting worse...except that kittens gain stamina as they age.

TBH if it's at all possible I'd suggest considering a kitten play mate - it can make a HUGE difference. If you can't financially manage another kitten consider fostering a cat that's near a year old - a temporary playmate could make a big difference. AND would take some of the pressure off you.


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## bluemilk (Oct 3, 2005)

TBH if it's at all possible I'd suggest considering a kitten play mate - it can make a HUGE difference. If you can't financially manage another kitten consider fostering a cat that's near a year old - a temporary playmate could make a big difference. AND would take some of the pressure off you.[/QUOTE]

That's a GREAT idea! Kittens learn through interactive play! 

Do the other cats fight back when he gets scrappy?


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## catloverami (Jul 5, 2010)

It's too bad that Moxie has reached the point of now being afraid of the kitten and is avoiding him at all costs. I don't think she's going to stand up to him. There is a 6 months diffference in age between Alkee and Zuba. In the past when my boy Zuba got to be bigger, heavier and more aggressive with Alkee around about a year old, he used to chase and pin her with a neck bite. Up to that point she was the "boss" and Zuba backed off from her if she hissed or growled. But I could see she was starting to get afraid of him, and his play fights more intense. What I did to turn things around, was every time Zuba went after Alkee in a _very_ aggressive way that was more than a "play fight", I would tell him "No" and if he didn't stop, I smacked him _firmly_ on his rump with a folded-over newspaper. It doesn't hurt him, but he doesn't like the sound of it. But the timing is important and best if you can do it while he's attacking Moxie so he connects the smack with his attack.
Zuba really didn't like it and would run off. It didn't take very many smacks when I told him "no", until I picked up the paper and shook it and he would stop and run off. Alkee twigged on pretty early that I wasn't going to tolerate his "bad" attacks and would run to be close to me. Zuba never went after her if she was near me as he knew I wouldn't tolerate it. I learned to play "policeman" from one of my old torbie queens who used to break up any spats in my clowder by getting into the middle of it and smacking everyone on the head. Alkee and Zuba continue to have their "play fights" and even Alkee sometimes initiates them, but very few bad ones now, but they're both 10 yrs. old and have mellowed a bit. It is a delicate balance when I have to use this type of discipline, because I don't want Zuba to be afraid of me, just respect the limits. So I do have to give him _positive reinforcement_ (caresses/treats, etc.) when he is being a good boy. He knows the difference and often seeks out my lap and affection as much as Alkee does. 
So if the spray bottle isn't working, you might consider the newspaper, don't use your hand to smack. You don't want him to be "hand shy".


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## KsKatt (Jul 6, 2014)

Using the gate (or two) would give everybody a chance for an extended intro. 
You have my thoughts and prayers. You are handling a tough situation very well.:thumb


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## miralee (Nov 29, 2014)

Well my baby gate from amazon was delayed (so much for 6.99 next day shipping!!) but it arrived today and... the spaces between the bars are too big and he can slip right through. But I half suspected that would be the case so I have zip ties and 1 inch square plastic fencing ordered that should arrive Tuesday. I wanted this gate because it has a door and is 41 inches tall, so should work for months without the hassle of having to take it down every day or stack another on top. So sad that he has to be closed in the room during the night until Tuesday, I really want to be able to leave the door open for him so he can see out and I can start working building Moxie's confidence while he's confined. 

So I've been trying the spray bottle for three days now? It feels like weeks but it's been three days. I think it might be helping? Moxie has come down several times during the day. Sometimes the kitten runs by her and doesn't pounce on her, sometimes he looks like he's about to pounce and then runs off. When he pounces on her and she hisses at him I spray him as soon as he's clear from her, and try to make the same 'ah-ah!' noise every time. I don't know but I think he's a little less intense about going after her. She's stopped running all the way up the stairs to her hiding spots after he gets her and usually just sits on the stairs to collect herself. So progress? Maybe? 

In other but possibly related bad news my 17 year old cat has peed inappropriately twice in the past two days. She's had UTIs before so I have no idea if it's that again (yay more vet bills), or if it's because I had to change litter brands in the upstairs litter boxes, or if the kitten is bothering her while she's trying to go. I'm going to keep an eye on her, the last two times she's gone to the vet for suspected UTIs she was fine and I suspect this time she was set off by the change in litter brands. But the next time I find pee outside the box she'll be going to the vet unfortunately.

The last two days the kitten slept a lot during the day, for the first time. He slept for more than an hour at a time more than once, and I was able to get some time with Moxie because she felt confident enough to come down while he was asleep. No idea what changed - any chance that at three months he's reached his peak in terms of crazy kitten energy? lol I think I know that answer to that, but let me keep hoping he's not going to get worse before he gets better...

librarychick and bluemilk, I'm sooooo kittened out at this point. Even if money wasn't a factor I really don't want another kitten (possibly ever hahaha...). And additionally, I can't deal with him being this rough to my other cat forever. Things have to improve between them or I have to rehome him. Oh it makes me want to cry to keep typing that but it's the truth. And I know it will be twice as hard to rehome two kittens, both because it'll be harder to find them a home and because it'll be harder on me to let go of two. It's killing me to think I may have to give him up. I don't know that fostering is an option either for the same reasons and because I have only one safe room and don't want to put my cats through an introduction to another cat who isn't even staying with us. They're good suggestions though, and I have the idea of adopting another kitten in the back of my mind while I try to figure this whole situation out. 

catloverami I will keep that in mind. I'm trying something similar with the spray bottle but if that stops working I'll have to see about finding something else he dislikes. Good for you for being able to play referee like that - it is just KILLING me to have to do the same. Moxie is very special to me so as much as I love the little kitten it is so hard to see her so upset. She helps me so much with my depression and anxiety, I wanted to get her a kitten playmate that would keep her company though out the day and make her happy. Well that's really worked out great...

Thank you KsKatt! Some days it doesn't feel like it. But we can only do our best and hope things work out. I appreciate your kind words!


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Miralee, 
It truly sounds like you're tackling this situation head on!
Good for you, for being determined! And...You have a plan now! Bravo!
All Paws Crossed for you! 
Sharon


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## catloverami (Jul 5, 2010)

_Miralee_, I sincerely hope you can teach your kitty some limits. The secret to making your kitty behave is you have to "think like a cat" and "be consistent" and I know it takes some experience with a lot of cats over some years and handling and observing their behavior to get really competent at this. I think you are capable of achieving this with the many suggestions that you have received and that things seem to be improving and moving in the right direction, tho perhaps not as quickly as you would like. Try to be positive, calm and relaxed as cats do pick up on people's moods and anxiety. Do keep us updated on your progress.


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## miralee (Nov 29, 2014)

Well I've done everything I can think of to get the baby gate to work, but he is just able to climb out no matter what I do. I think it is tall enough that he would not be able to jump out if he could not fit through the bars. Anyway he is still being put into his room at night. How long do you all think is too long for a kitten to be alone in a room? He spends 8-9 hours per night in there (I spend an hour with the other cats in the morning before I let him out), and a few hours here and there through out the day when I need to go out. If he is in there around 11 or 12 hours per day, is that too much? I feels like a very long time for him to be alone.

Moxie is coming down every day now. Moxie seems almost resigned to him, she tries to go about her business during the day but she is jumpy and nervous whenever he is around. He chases her to the stairs multiple times during the day. She spends a lot of time on counter tops and the backs of chairs trying to stay away from him. Sometimes they will sit together on the table and look out the window without him pouncing on her. They are doing that right now actually, but when she tries to jump onto the floor I know he's going to pounce on her. At times I feel like things are improving. If she is above him, say on the stairs or on the higher bed of the cat tree or on the table she will growl and smack at him. When he jumps on her she makes a terrible racket, hissing and screeching while she tries to run away. I feel terribly for her when he does this. He chases her up the stairs multiple times during the day. She's always been the submissive cat but her behavior is just so different, she's so scared, I am hesitant to say things are really improved. She is just not acting like herself, but maybe I just need to give it more time. I just know she can't live the rest of her life like this, it won't be fair.

I sooo want him to just outgrow pouncing and biting. He's only three months old so I know I have to give it more time to see if he stops doing that as he matures. So I'll be seeing if this will work for the next few months, and if things haven't improved a lot by then I'll start trying to find him a new home. My family keeps trying to get me to name him but I can't bring myself to name him knowing I might need to give him up. 

I did end up contacting a local rescue about fostering a kitten or two, but they need their fosters to have a safe room away from all resident cats and I'm out of safe rooms. So that's not an option unfortunately.


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Miralee,
Check with any home improvement stores, to see if they have a Flexible plastic panel, you may be able to McGyver an un-crawlable gate yet!
You need a smooth surface, his little toenails can't get a grip on!
Sometimes home improvement stores will have 'end' pieces of Plexiglas, that you can get for not to much $$
Think 'Outside' the box, and you'll come up with something! 
Sharon


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## Jenny bf (Jul 13, 2013)

A pssibl issue with him being in the room for long periods on his own is that he then has energy to burn off when let out. 
Have you tried calming collars on both cats? It might chill him out and help your older cat to not be so tense. I think the collars are safe on any age cat.
I am sure I read in a thread before that attaching balloons to the top of a gate will stop them jumping over.


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## miralee (Nov 29, 2014)

We've had a major set back this morning, and I feel like things are just not going to improve. The kitten jumped on my 3 year old cat and bit her very hard on the ear. From the sound she made I thought he had injured her. Luckily she is not injured, but it's clear he hurt her a lot. Any progress I felt they had made is now gone. She is back to being terrified and hiding on top of my desk, and will not stand up to the kitten any more. Whatever occurred in that interaction has only made the kitten more aggressive in his play. If she sets paw on the ground he's on her, trying to push her over and biting her very hard. 

I really feel like this is the last straw. I have tried everything I can think of but he is just so aggressive. I can't let him out at night - I tried for about 3 nights but had to stop when the three year old cat pooped on the floor. He just would not leave her alone. It did not seem to diminish his energy levels at all to be out at night, and only made the relationship between the two cats worse. I am so heart broken by this while situation, I wish I had never laid eyes on him. 

He's locked up in his room again because I am keeping them separate and he's yowling at the top of his lungs and jumping at the door trying to get out. I can hear him hitting the door and sliding down. This is just not fair to him that he is alone and confined for so long. I do not want another kitten at this point, and I am worried that he will be too rough for another kitten anyway. Or that it will not stop the problem of him terrorizing Moxie, or that they will just gang up on her. 

I don't know how to go about this but maybe I will start emailing local rescue groups. I am sure they are full but it is worth a try I suppose. I don't know many people in this province so I have no idea how to go about finding him a good home. I'm just so sick of this whole situation - why can't he just be calmer and leave Moxie alone? I would tolerate the agression towards me if he would just leave her alone. Anyway thank you for your suggestions and for reading.


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Miralee, 
It does happen...where a cat is, unfortunately, not a good match for any cats you have...
And you do owe your first there, kitties, peace, quiet, and Safety...
I don't think anyone is going to fault you, for looking for another home, for the kitten...
Moxie certainly doesn't deserve to be harassed like that...
(((Hugs))) I know it's hard, whatever you decide...
Sharon


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

*Rehoming* isn't a bad word, I've had to do it. I only regret waiting so long, it wasn't fair to any of my girls, including the little girl who found a wonderful new home.

Good luck with whatever choice you make.


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## catloverami (Jul 5, 2010)

What's happening is he is "feeling his oats" as the old saying goes, and I suspect the male hormones are starting to flow. Neutering him asasp should be your first consideration, as the longer he goes not being neutered, he's only going to get more aggressive. You are right that he has set any progress back to below zero with Moxie....she tried, but not likely to again. So better to let him go to a humane society or rescue where they will get him neutered, perhaps put him in a "kitten" room to play with other cats or adults and they will discipline him. Don't feel badly, some kitties are just little hellions and you got one, and no he isn't going to slow down as he gets older but will be stronger and more rambunctious. Not a good fit with your Moxie or other cat, since he's too aggressive. I suggest you talk with the local rescue organization that you were inquiring about a foster kitten to see if they will take him?
All the best!


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## miralee (Nov 29, 2014)

When I let him out this morning he ran right over to Moxie and tried to give her a friendly head but. Of course she wants nothing to do with that now, and a few minutes later I took my eye off them for a second and he pounced on her and wrestled her to the ground. I feel bad, but I needed to see that to help me know for sure it is time to keep them permanently separate. I cried for hours last night once I decided he had to leave, and I'm crying right now. He just doesn't know he's being too rough for her. I imagine he will grow into a great cat but fear he will always be incompatible with my shy Moxie. If I could know for sure he would out grow this pouncing and wrestling I would be more willing to tough it out, but I realize I can't be sure he will now that he is in the habit of going after her. 

I'm having all sorts of crazy thoughts trying to figure out how to make this work. Like getting him a kitten friend and letting them live in the spare bedroom for a year or more until they are less wild. My head knows that isn't fair and that I have nothing reasonable left to try, but my heart is broken. For a short time I really believed I would be able to keep him. 

He has a vet appointment this afternoon where he will be getting his second round of kitten shots. I will see what the vet says about my plan to rehome him. I know the vet will not have a magic cure but they might have some resources or a foster home he can go to. If the vet will neuter him now will that help his behavior at all? Or in your opinion is it better to simply contact a rescue now and let them take care of getting him neutered? 

My brother thinks I am completely over reacting by planning to rehome the kitten. My brother thinks if I just let him out full time they will work it out and the kitten will be much calmer in just a few months. He isn't here so he doesn't know how bad it has gotten, but he's definitely made me feel worse about this. I did some math today and the kitten has only had free run of the house during the day for 32 days. When I see that I feel like I am not giving this situation nearly enough time. I am so torn about what the right thing to do is. But every day I wait is another day the poor little guy has to spend alone in his room. That alone makes me feel like I need to find him another home. It's not fair to him, and I have to remember that. 

Thank you for reading and for your kind words.


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## miralee (Nov 29, 2014)

So I just wanted to post an update to my situation... I won't be taking the kitten to a rescue after all. My brother was so upset about me wanting to 'get rid' of the kitten he came over, and we were able to talk about it. He and his girlfriend live in a no pets apartment right now, but it turns out they will be moving to a place that allows pets in 6-8 months (depending on when they find a place they like) so they can get a dog. He feels like he and the kitten bonded and has promised to take him in if things don't work out between the kitten and my other cats. 

Confirmed this with his girlfriend via text, she is lovely and said if it doesn't work out it would be nice for their puppy to have company while they're at work. The kitten is such a little spitfire, he isn't even scared of the vacuum, so I think he would probably love having his own puppy to boss around. Only thing my brother stipulated is that he gets to name the kitten now that he's come to my rescue (lol little brothers never change!). 

In the meantime my Dad has offered to help with kitten while I'm at work - he set up a tv in the kitten's room so he can spend his lunch (he works from home) watching the financial news and playing with the kitten while I'm at work. He went to home depot and bought some clear plastic and is going to help me kitten proof the baby gate tomorrow, so the kitten will be able to see out. I feel that is just much better for him than being locked behind a solid door.

When I took the kitten to the vet they sold me something called feliway, a spray and a diffuser. It's supposed to help cats relax and maybe it's just a placebo but Moxie seems calmer and more relaxed (probably helped by the fact that I'm keeping her and the kitten totally separate). The kitten is still rambunctious but he seems a little less manic since I plugged it in. My oldest cat is definitely acting different - she is only sleeping on things I've used the spray on, and it's really unlike her. The vet also advised me to keep Moxie and the kitten totally separate until the kitten is older and calmer, and then try to reintroduce them. I'm not sure he knows a lot about cats, but I don't think that's terrible advice, especially since I do have a back up plan now if it doesn't work out the second time.

I still don't feel like the situation is ideal but the kitten has tons of toys, a new cat tree, two windows to look out, a water fountain, everything he could need in that room. I'm going to start sleeping in his room for the first half of the night (I always wake up about midway through the night, about when the kitten wakes up and wants to play), and when I leave I can turn on an automatic toy to keep him occupied. I couldn't do it before because the bed in there is so darn uncomfortable, but I'm going to move my mattress topper in there. 

Even when I'm working my Dad will let the kitten out for a few hours when Moxie is sleeping in my room, so he'll get the run of the house during the day, even when I'm working full time. He's out much more than that now, we are just keeping him and Moxie on separate floors. It is so hot right now all she wants to do is sleep, but when she wants to come down to the main floor we put the kitten away. She is less nervous now that she is being 100% protected from him. 

Maybe I'm being selfish by keeping him, but I was just a mess thinking about giving him up. Every time I would do something for him I would think how this might be the last time I would scoop his litter box, or play with him, or cuddle him, and I couldn't hold back the tears. At least now I know he'll always have a good, safe home, and even if he lives with my brother I can visit him. He seems happy at least - he races up and down his new cat tree so much he doesn't always want to come out of his room when I open the door. He loves to hang over the top of the cat tree and spit and swipe at you when you walk by.


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## NebraskaCat (Jan 15, 2013)

Wow. It's amazing we made it through 50 replies of a rough play / aggressive behavior type thread without anyone mentioning Feliway. That's usually one of the suggestions that come out of our forum. Well, I'm glad your vet suggested it. 

Sounds like a pretty good situation with your brother. I would still encourage them to use the same very slow intro process with a dog. But the kitten will still be in the family, and that's nice.


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## DebS (Jun 14, 2015)

It sounds like you have some good plans for your rambunctious kitty. You seem really dedicated to doing the best for him. I may try some Feliway to help my kitten be more gentle with my dogs!


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## catloverami (Jul 5, 2010)

Thanks for the update.....it sounds like a very good plan, and the fact that you'll still be able to see the kitten grow up and all the changes he'll go through. Having a dog friend may be just what he needs, often that's a better solution than with another cat. :thumb :kittyball


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## miralee (Nov 29, 2014)

So the feliway seemed to be helping so much I ended up getting a little too hopeful about the kitten's behavior. I wasn't watching him closely enough today and he ended up getting to Moxie and they had a really bad fight. Tons of yowling, growling, shrieking... it really doesn't seem at all like he's trying to play anymore, it's absolutely horrible. She was attempting to defend herself which I haven't seen before, but he knows she doesn't really mean it. There was literally fur flying in this instance. It's very depressing because I had hoped with the feliway and some promising signs from him (less aggression and energy overall, some friendly interactions where he didn't attack her) things were getting better. But I guess not. I'm not going to be trying again, I'm telling my brother tonight that the kitten is his whenever he can take him. 

It's rough in the meantime, because this means one of them always needs to be confined behind a door. Because of the way the house is set up there is really no way to do that without locking one of them away in a room somewhere. It's not fair to Moxie that she has to be locked up in her own house, especially when she isn't the problem. But the kitten YOWLS when he's locked up, and throws himself against the barrier keeping him contained. I feel very torn in two, I can't keep everyone happy no matter what I do. And now my Dad has to travel for business so I'm going to be alone for the next two weeks. I feel very isolated and overwhelmed, still. At the very least we managed to set up the baby gate, so I can pass by and see how the kitten is doing and he can see what's going on outside his room. 

I don't know how I'm going to do this for the next 6 or more months. Does anyone else have cats they have to keep separate? How do you make sure a kitten who has to spend a lot of time alone in a room gets enough exercise and attention? Am I doing the right thing here by keeping him for my brother, or should I put my foot down and try to find him another home sooner? I hope you all don't mind that I continue to update this, I'm having a hard time with this situation and sometimes it helps just to get it all out.


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

I kept my girls separated for a year and a half, and I wish I hadn't, it wasn't fair to any of them, nothing I tried worked, and it was horrible for me. I ended up rehoming the mean girl, who went to a wonderful home. I wish I'd done it about 2 months in instead of 18.


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Miralee,
Every cat has a personality, and like people, just decide they don't like another cat...who knows why...I've read that cats can be discriminatory towards cats with a certain color, possibly from having a bad memory from a previous cat interaction??
You've tried everything...and it isn't working, Moxie is being harassed in her own home, a place thats supposed to be safe...
I'm so sorry you're going through this... 
It's never easy, when you have to make tough decisions...
(((HUGS)))
Sharon


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## miralee (Nov 29, 2014)

I've done some soul searching and given myself some time to think about this, and I know that I need to rehome the kitten. I've tried absolutely everything I can think of, but this just isn't going to work out. My brother is saying now that it could be up to be a year before he's ready to take the kitten. That's just too long, I'm putting my foot down now. All this stress isn't good for me either, so it's time to do the right thing for everyone and start looking for a new home for him.

I've called two rescues today but it's canada day so only got a hold of one. That rescue referred me to send an email to another and I received an automatic response that they were full and were not accepting any more cats with homes, so I suppose I have to wait until tomorrow to figure out what I'm going to do. Other than a rescue I don't have any idea how to go about finding the kitten a new home (I don't know many people in this province). I'll try calling my vet tomorrow as well to see if he has any resources. 

Thank you for all your help.


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

I've used Craigslist and kijiji (eBay's version of Craigslist). My vet let me put a flyer up in her office, too. If you use Facebook, that's another resource.


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## catloverami (Jul 5, 2010)

Sometimes, things don't turn out as expected, and no one is to blame including yourself. But I agree that it is very stressful living under conditions where cats are fighting and this is not a good thing for either the cat's or the owner's health. Your home should be one of peace and tranquility where you can relax. Be honest with a prospective owner as to the kitten's behavior. Good luck in your search, let us know how things turn out.


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## KsKatt (Jul 6, 2014)

I always think "advertising" in a vet's clinic is the best. The people there, at least, have a regular vet.:wink: You have a great reference in the vet, on if this person is trustworthy.
There are some vet clinics here that will put the kitten, in a wire kennel, in the waiting room. Gives the kitten a chance to charm people waiting to see the vet. 
Call every single vet in an area you are able to travel. If they would show the kitten, great, if not, ask advice.
Even if a rescue is full they can offer suggestions and give you a copy of any forms they use in choosing people they adopt to. 
If you advertise on craigslist, be ready to be bashed. Maybe it's different there but craigslist is considered a death trap. I've heard about people trying to rehome a pet, even for legit reasons, like yours, getting hundreds of ate mail.
Craigslist is only bad if the person rehoming the animal doesn't take responsibility for checking out the potential adopter. Get references and CHECK THEM, do a home visit and talk to neighbors. I'd even go to the local police and ask if there has been any reports or complaints.


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## miralee (Nov 29, 2014)

Well I've contacted rescue groups and have actually heard back from two now, C.A.R.E.S. and The Vancouver Orphan Kitten Rescue (who contacted me first and who I have just filled out an online surrender form for). 

I know this is a good thing, when I first heard back from VOKRA I just felt such RELIEF that he would be going somewhere safe, and then I started to cry. I'm utterly heart broken, my brother is utterly heart broken, I don't know how I'm going to pack up that sweet little face and put him in the car for an hour and then leave him somewhere, even with good, kind cat people who will help him. I am not the kind of person to cry in front of people but I know I will be a wreck when it comes time to let him go. I can't eat or sleep. My brother will be coming Saturday to say goodbye and I have to be firm or he will try to talk me into keeping the kitten 'just a little longer'.

I've asked VOKRA twice now if I can bring his toys and his blanket and his favorite bed, and whether they have a foster home available (I would keep him until they do, I don't want him to go to a cage until they have space), but they haven't acknowledged my questions in their emails. I know how busy and over worked they must be, I just wish they could let me know what will happen to him once I give him to them. I just want to know he will be safe and they will know how to handle his biting. I feel utterly like the villain right now. My brother keeps begging me to calm down and wait a little longer, but I know the longer I wait the harder it becomes for him to find a new home.

I so don't want him to be scared and stressed around all these new people and places. I will take one of the feliway diffusers and the spray with me so hopefully they can use it and it will comfort him. 

Even though I know I am doing the right thing, it certainly doesn't feel like I am. This morning when I let him out he was on his best behavior, making me feel like I had totally jumped the gun, and then of course he got by me and went for Moxie while she was upstairs. He pulled out some of her fur while he was hanging off her back. I keep hoping things will change with time. Maybe in a few years they will be able to coexist without all the drama, but that's not fair to do to them. Especially Moxie. My poor baby is jumping at shadows and flinching away from me and I know I need to put her world back to how it was before.

I think that Sunday I will likely be dropping the kitten off. I really appreciate all your well wishes and advice.


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## KsKatt (Jul 6, 2014)

You are in such a hard place. Unfortunately, it seems that doing the right thing is always harder than doing the wrong thing. If you didn't love him it wouldn't hurt so much and that's because you are such a good person. You are willing to suffer for the best of all your "kids".
Bless your heart.


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## catloverami (Jul 5, 2010)

Yes, you will be a wreck, and I know from experience when I was breeding Manx, it was a real wrench to sell some of the kittens or some of my adult cats when I needed to bring in a new bloodline. I kept a few, but one can only keeps so many, and some of my favorite kittens and cats went to new homes. But you would be amazed especially how quickly kittens settle into a new environment, and I have no doubt that your boy will adapt well into a new home. I think you're doing the right thing especially for Moxie, and you will be surprised when she realizes that your boy is no longer in the house, how relaxed and friendly she will be again with you when she realizes she is safe from being attacked. It's hard to make the right decision at times. We know you want the best for your boy. All the best! Good luck!


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## miralee (Nov 29, 2014)

Vokra did get back to me and I can bring his toys, his blanket, his food, his bed. I don't know why that comforts me so much. Frankly I know he likes me, but the little guy likes everyone, even the vet - I think he's more bonded to his blanket than he is to me. I know he will be ok. Putting him away in his room and hearing him cry last night helped, weirdly, because I know he deserves to go to a home where he won't be alone so much. I want the best for him and this is definitely the best for him and everyone involved. 

They asked me to keep him until mid-next week (we are going through a heat wave so they want as few cats as possible in their center). He'll spend a day or two at the center, get checked out by a vet, and go to a foster home. The email said he would get lots of attention while he was there - he so LOUD when he wants something, I have no doubt he's going to get more than his fair share of attention. 

Today my brother is coming over, I'm going to have him watch the kitten and say goodbye while I run some much needed errands. I think my brother is starting to understand, but maybe if he spends a day here it'll help. I'll put Moxie in my room while I'm gone - I'm doing everything in my power to keep them completely apart, even though it might help my brother to see them scuffle I'm hoping to keep it from happening ever again. I'm ready for this to be over, and for the little guy to move on and find a great home. 

KsKatt, catloverami, thank you for your kind words. Thanks to everyone who's given advice and encouraged me to do the right thing. This has been really difficult but being able to vent about it here has helped.


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Miralee, 
That's Awesome that you can take his bed, toys, etc, along with him, for drop off to Vokra!
And I know what you mean about it helps to comfort you, somehow...
You are doing 'right' by this little guy, as much as it hurts, all the same...
You will be able to concentrate on getting Moxie's self confidence back, and Calm restored to your household! 
(((HUGS))) for you, and Prayers that this little boy finds the purr-fect home, for him!
Sharon


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## Arianwen (Jun 3, 2012)

I am very glad you found a proper rescue. I am very wary about finding people on things like Craigslist - there are some horrible people out there who want cats (and puppies) as bait for dog fighting, etc..they can talk up a storm and have deceived a lot of good people. A "proper" rescue organisation will do home checks and match your kitten with the right people.


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## miralee (Nov 29, 2014)

10cats2dogs, he suckles on that blanket to go to sleep, so even though I know they might eventually want to take it away from him (it does get kind of gross) I know it will be a huge comfort during the transition. I was so sad last night thinking about him without his blanket - how silly huh? Vokra seems like a great organization, I'm going to give as big a donation as I can to them to help offset the costs of taking him in and getting him adoptable. It will be hard at first but I'm trying to focus on having a peaceful evening in the near future watching a movie in my armchair with Moxie on my lap. It feels like forever since we've been able to do that. As much as I will miss him (and I will miss him so darn much) it will be nice to have peace again. Thanks for the kind words.

Arianwen, you're completely right. That was my fear as well with trying to rehome him myself. I doubt most people trying to get a kitten on craigslist would want someone to do home checks (which probably wouldn't strictly speaking be safe anyway). Speaking of which my retired neighbor just bought what she thought was a pure breed beagle on craigslist, and she's since found out the dog is definitely a beagle cross and is probably pregnant. She is taking her in for an ultrasound to confirm on Monday. You never know what people will try to do, unfortunately not everyone cares about their animals like they should. Kittens on craigslist and kijiji in my area typically go for $100 - $150 (I've been looking lately and I'm totally shocked, you can get a fixed and vaccinated cat from a rescue for that much!) so apparently some people buy any 'cheap' kittens up quickly and then try to flip them to make money. It's crazy. I'm so thankful for Vokra.


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## miralee (Nov 29, 2014)

Tonight is my last night with the kitten. My cats have been tucked away in my room, and I'm spending his last night with me doing the same things we always do. Lots of play time. He is unusually sleepy tonight, so I'm debating whether to stay up with him or put us both to bed to have a little more time tomorrow. I'm dropping him off at 1pm. He already has a foster home lined up so he won't even have to spend the night at the center, most likely. I still worry for him. I hope he is not scared tomorrow, that will absolutely break my heart if he is really afraid I don't know how I will leave him. 

I hope he has a wonderful life.


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Awww...Miralee...it is a Bitter, Sweet time...it is completely normal to feel torn, and sad, with situations like this...
You have done a Great job finding a wonderful shelter that will even get him right into a foster home!
He's young, curious, and energetic, he will adapt very quickly to the new place!
(((HUGS)))
Sharon


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## Jenny bf (Jul 13, 2013)

Oh like others I have been in your very shoes. It is a tough position. I had a male cat called Felix who was just too much teenager for Lulu. I worked with a shelter to take him in for rehoming. I cried all the way there could barely talk in the reception and the guilt that I had promised a forever home just ran through me. The manager was amazing and told me not to worry he would stay till he went to a new home. She called me next day to say he was happily and calmly settled in a multiple cat house there and 3 days later because of his outgoing personality he got a single cat heome, where he is totally spoilt and is their total prince. What you are doing is right for your resident cats but is right for him too and for you. Sending you hugs at this tough time


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