# Feral Cat and missing kittens



## rtre1979

Hello All,

We started feeding a feral cat in mid-June and a week later, she showed up in our back yard with her five kittens who looked like they were about 4 weeks old. A few days later, she brought two more smaller kittens that may not be hers. All seven kittens plus mom have been enjoying themselves now for a few weeks with morning and evening feedings, then they would sleep under our gazebo. We were prepared to TNR her this friday and then eventually TNR the kittens. Until last night.

We went out and didn't return until 10pm, missing thier evening feeding. All the cats, including the mom, were gone. The mom returned this morning but without the kittens. After she ate, she sat in the backyard callling for them. In the past, hearing their mom, they would come running. But they never showed up and still haven't. She left and came back in the afternoon, ate, then sat and cried out, but again, no sightings. She left again. It's been a day now.

Is this normal for feral cats to move the whole family if a regular meal is missed? Will they be back? We really would like to trap the mom before she gets pregnant again but the Humane Society will keep her for about a week and we are afraid she will not be able to locate her kittens when she gets back. It seems like she doesn't know where they are. I called the Humane Society and they did not have any pickups of strays in our area. 

Shoud we TNR her or wait to see if the kittens show up or are they gone for good?

Rick


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## Jeanie

Rick, it is not uncommon for a cat, even a pet, to move her kittens. What is worrying is that they are not coming to her. They are old enough to want to explore now, and Mother cat is upset. I have watched mother cats call in vain when her kittens got out of the "nest," and bring them back one by one, only to have them leave again. I am hoping this is the case. Hunger is a great motivator. Strong smelling food should help to attract them. Although fish is not a good regular diet, it might bring them "home." 

Mother cat could get pregnant now. In fact, although it's unusual, she could have got pregnant within days after she gave birth. That compounds the problem.  I would give her another day to bring the kittens back, and hopefully, if you continue to provide food and comfort--a cozy place for them to sleep and feel safe..they will stay while mother gets spayed. 

I wish you the very best. It is very kind of you to take care of this family. Please keep us updated. I'll be thinking of you and this little family.


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## Heidi n Q

How sad...  ... I think, if it were me, I would wait at least a few days to be certain the kittens don't show up, and also watch her...if she begins to not call for them it shows that *she* is giving up and letting-them-go, then I would TNR her asap. 

Here is my first TNR experience:
I began feeding Malibu's litter at about 4wks old, and in the course of the first week I eventually saw all four kittens. At about 6wks old, Mallie had *had it* with me paying so much attention to her nest and she moved them and I didn't see them for a month...until she brought them back one morning (!) to play in the flowers of my front porch. So, I began putting food out again and she showed up with the babies every morning. On the 4th morning, I put the food near the garage. On the 5th (a Saturday) I had the garage door lifted open about 6" and put the food in the middle of the floor. I watched for them to arrive, and they did. They didn't see the food in the usual place and when they finally noticed it was in the garage, all of them went in. I waited about a minute for them to all be concentrated on the food, and then I used my garage door clicker to close it the 6" and I caught them.

What I learned from this experience with feral cats and kittens is if I have a chance to catch kittens, I do it ASAP before I *lose* that opportunity. I hated the month Mallie had those kittens away and I didn't know if they'd lived or died. I eventually seperated the kittens from Mallie when socializing was going too slow in the garage. Kittens went to my bathroom and Mallie went to TNR and was returned. She did walk around and around our house calling for them for about a week and then she stopped. Mallie became my first Georgia feral that I tamed and she is now a very happy and confident housecat that sleeps with me every night. Her four kittens went through a local adoption center (PetsMart) to find good homes and I became a foster-person for that organization.

Best of luck with the kitties you've been feeding, that is wonderful they found someone to care for them. I am sorry to say, I don't think it sounds good that the Mamma is calling and none of the 7 kittens are appearing, but I will keep hoping.
heidi


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## rtre1979

Good News! They are all back. Mama cat brought them in last night and all seven kittens were eating and playing in the yard this morning. 

We are signing up as a feral colony caretaker. This allows us to particiapate in a free TNR program at the Hawaiian Humane Society. There is no charge, they ear notch and microchip each kitten, and then we release them. We will TNR mama cat tomorrow morning. They then allow us to bring in two kittens per week. We are also planning to catch the tom cat we think is responsible for the kittens. He has also been coming in for a daily meal for a couple of months.

Here are some questions:

We have to keep feeding the kitten in our yard until they weigh at least two pounds, which is soon. Then TNR. However, this makes them dependant on our yard as a place to find food as this process will take about two months to TNR all with the two cats per week restriction.

Once they are all TNR, should we start moving the feedings out to the area behind our fenceline, then continue farther out until they are being feed in the woods?

Finally, we are military and we will be leaving next summer. Will the feral cats be unable to fend for themselves after being dependant on us for food? Is there a point where we can wean them off us as a food source?

We don't know anyone who will continue this practice. We have lots of neighbrs and the cats may turn up in thier yards looking for food next year. This may not be a good thing.

Thanks for the help, this web site is a great resource.

Rick


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## Jeanie

It would be all right to move them to the back of the property, but not so far that you couldn't keep an eye on them...and begin socializing them. 

It's always a concern when you have to move. Are you afraid that the neighbors won't feed them, or that they might hurt them? The kittens could be adopted. Have you looked into that? Mother cat is probably pretty savvy, and if she is spayed, she'll live a longer life. 

Perhaps you could "get a feel" for the attitude of the people in the neighborhood, but Mother Cat will go wherever the food is. My sister hated cats (she said), but always fed the feral mother who had kittens in a sheltered area on the property. She was shocked to see the mother carry the kittens to the neighbor's porches, one by one. Impressive! They are such good mothers.


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## Heidi n Q

I think it is wonderful that you've been able to get registered for a feral colony! That will help immensely in getting everyone there under control (_spayed/neutered_). Since you will be re-stationed at some point, after getting everyone TNR'd that you can, I think I would let the people who run the feral colony program know that you will be leaving the area. They may be able to recruit someone else to care for the colony (_which, it would be perfectly fine to move the feeding-station further from your house/property_) and I think they could give you the best information about how to get them non-dependent upon you for food. 

I also, would like to see the kittens caught and socialized to be presentable as adoptable pets, but you can only do what you *can* do, and I understand if this is the best. IMO, _anything positive_ is helping these cats...

I'm very happy they all showed up. My heart was low today when I thought about them.
heidi


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## rtre1979

Hello again,

Thanks once again for the suggestions on the colony. As far as the kittens are concerned, they aren't very sociable and run when we get near them. We are unable to bring them to to the Humane Society for adoption because they do not accept feral kittens unless sociialized and we are unable to do that for them. I have read up on the socialization process for feral kittens and from what I understand it is a somewhat lengthy process and is best done indoors to spend time bonding with the kitten. We are renting our house and pets are not allowed in the home. 

So the best we can do is to TNR the clan of eight and contiune caring for them during the year we have left. Here are more specific "what if" questions:

What if the colony is fed for a year and no one is able to continue the responsibility when we leave? Will the cats survive?

Since we know we are leaving next summer, should we start weaning them off right after TNR to see how they do? 

Is it better to feed them for now and take the chance later that something will work out?


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## Heidi n Q

What if the colony is fed for a year and no one is able to continue the responsibility when we leave? Will the cats survive?
They might, but it will depend on the area and if there is small game for them to hunt/catch.

Since we know we are leaving next summer, should we start weaning them off right after TNR to see how they do? 
I think I would feed them up as best you can, so they develop quickly and healthy with no deficiencies in their diet while they grow.

Is it better to feed them for now and take the chance later that something will work out?
For now, I would continue to feed and hope things work out.


If your colony reps cannot get someone in to care for them, I would start weaning them from your food source about 4-6mo before you plan to leave. Begin with gradually putting out less food (3/4 to 1/2 to 1/3 or so) at each feeding and then start reducing the number of feedings (2x daily, to 1x daily, to every-other-day, to every 2nd day and so on) to encourage them to seek other food sources.
Talk to the administrators of the Feral Colony program and see what they advise. I think they would be the best people to guide you through this.
h


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## rtre1979

Heidi,

Thanks for the advice. So far, so good. We brought in the mama cat and one kittnen so far. As colony care providers, both were fixed by the Hawaiian Humane Society, ear notched, and microchipped for $5 per cat and both are doing fine. That's two down, six to go. The Society will only take two at a time and only on the 8-10 surgery days per month. So it will take a little time.

We plan to wean them off of us in the manner you described. One good bit of news, the day after her surgery, mama cat caught a bird in the back yard while inattentive kittens were playing. She dropped it next to them and walked away. The kittens batted it around a bit, then ate it down to the feathers. So maybe there's hope for them after all and they won't think life is all kibbles and bits.

Rick


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## Heidi n Q

rtre1979 said:


> mama cat caught a bird in the back yard while inattentive kittens were playing. She dropped it next to them and walked away. The kittens batted it around a bit, then ate it down to the feathers.


Rick, that is FABULOUS! I think it is *very* promising that she is both hunting AND attempting to teach her litter how to hunt for themselves and recognize what prey animals are. _I'm sorry for the birds/mice but it is a food-chain world we live in, and one they will have to adapt to if they wish to survive._

"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself." D. H. Lawrence


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## Jeanie

Thanks for the update, Rick. You are doing so well with this little family (not so little!). It sounds as if you are giving these babies a great life for feral cats. You are their angel.


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## Mitts & Tess

Just saw Ricks posting. Im in and out of town alot lately. 

Concerning not being fed after you have to move. Its been our experience that they will scatter and look for a new food source. Its very very hard for ferals to exist on rodents etc. I would advise you to feed them up until the day you leave. Weaning them isnt going to kick in the hunting instinct. They either will have the ability or not. Laws of nature. 

Maybe by the time you leave you could find someone in your area who could take on this colony. Put feelers out with the cat groups and HS etc. Maybe Best Friends or Alley Cat Allies would know thru their networking to put in contact with someone in your area. Dont loose hope. 

You are awesome getting these cat S/N. That makes their life and ability to exist so much easier and healthier. Keep us posted. 

BTW this is just MHO from our experiences here in AZ. Just wanted to give you my perspective.. right or wrong!!!


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## rtre1979

Mitts and Tess,

I appreciate your input and will consider your advice. Being in Hawaii the colony faces very nice weather, enough moisture everyday for them to get water and plenty of big fat birds and cat friendly back yards.

We are on the fourth TNR and expect to finish with the rest in the next month or so. The kitten we are brinnging in tomorrow is actually social, allowing us to pick it up and purrs when we stroke its belly, but still runs and hides, which is to be expected. 

The Hawaiian Humane Society will determine if the kitten is social enough for adoption and as a no kill shelter, it will remain adoptable until it finds a home. So we are crossing our fingers. If not sociable enough, we will take it home and keep socializing the kitten until its adoptable. This is probably the only one we are able to do this for, the rest of the six kittens and mama cat will have to remain feral.

Once again, thanks for the words of encouragment and advice. 

Rick


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## Mitts & Tess

Rick wanted to make sure you understood what I was saying when I said take _on the cats _,I wasnt meaning to try to take them in and socialize but I was meaning to take on feeding watching over your little colony. There are several people in my area which drive over to colonies to feed & water them each day. Im hoping this will occure for you!

Some of our ferals are dumber than a rock and wouldnt survive if they had to catch thier own food. But they are sucessfully surviving with our help. But that is the part you have to put in Gods or the universe or who ever, hands. We did all we could do on our parts!

Your kitties were loved, fed, watched over while you are there for now.. more than most ferals ever find in their hard life times!


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## rtre1979

Mitts and Tess,

Thanks for the clarification. We are hoping someone can take over the feeding. Here are our plans and a question.

The mom is sociable and we can take her to the Humane Society at any time. Since she is fixed, she's ready to go.

Out of seven kittens, we now have two kittens fixed and socialized and adoptable. One we are going to keep as an indoor cat, the other we will take to the Humane Society next week so they can adopt it out. This leaves five kittens, two are fixed, leaving three too small to take TNR for another month.

We plan to use the kitten we are keeping to help us try to socialze others in the litter, as two more show promise. That would leave three kittens we feel are pretty set in thier feral ways.

These are the three left in the 'colony'. 

Since this is a rental home, we are going to move the feeding for these final three back beyond our fence line into the brush. We are hoping to observe these unapproachable kittens gradually find thier way and return less often.

Question:

If there are only three cats left on property, is it better to relocate them to another colony if we are unable to find someone?

Rick


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## Mitts & Tess

Rick it touches me that you have so much concern! So often my TNR group encounters the exact opposite. Its so refreshing to find people who have compassion & motivation to make a difference for ferals.

As far as relocating the remaining kitties, unless you were relocating them with an experienced TNR person to an established colony, I wouldnt. Only 50% of relocated cats survive. Half of them leave trying to get back to where they are from. We have a barn program here. We only relocate if the cats in question are going to be killed or in a dangerous situation. We keep the ferals in tack rooms or big kennels for 3-6 weeks feeding them, getting them use to this is where their food source is, familar with the sounds, smells, people, animals. Even with all that effort we loose half of them. 

As far as the mother goes, if she is social with other people, not just you I would consider putting her up for adoption. Leave her with the kittens as long as possible though. 

Do know that every Humane Society is different. Alot of them put cats and dogs down for a mirade of shelter reasons...been there too long, not relating to potential adopters coming in and regressing in the shelter situation, biting , etc. Shelters are very hard on cats esp. 

We have a no kill shelter where I live. The cats are all in a big room and very very stressed out. Alot of them regress in that situation. I would weigh her quality of life on her own once you leave vs how good this HS is getting cats adopted out and not putting them to sleep or becoming warehoused if they are no kill.

Sounds like your really making great progress with these kitties. Keep us posted!

Merry


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## rtre1979

Merry,

The Humane Society here has an abundance of cats, last year they took in 11,000 and the last three days we were in there the daily numbers were 100+ on a Saturday, 80+ on Monday and 70 on Weds. So, yes there is a chance as an adult, she would be there a while. So we are thinking of leaving her to make her way as she has been doing so far. Plus, since she is fixed, she will have a better time of it if she stays a feral. She wandered into our back yard on her own so I'm not sure if there is even a colony around the wooded area where we live. We haven't really seen too many cats, just the occasional one here and there.

We ere able to bring in one more kitten into the socialization process, making it three we are working with now. Two of them are runnnin around the house, playing and using the litter box. This newer third one is still shy, he will take a little more time. 

We won't relocate the kittens when they become cats. We'll just continue feeding them until about a month before we leave and see how they make out. It will be hard to find a provider to come to our back yard to feed them. The new renters probably wouldn't want that. A provider could drive out along a road that runs behind the house, but for just three or fours cats, it would have to be someone who really has the time and generosity to do this.

We'll give updates as we go along. Meanwhile, my wife and I are going to begin voluteering at the Humane Society. We'll get a better feel for the facilities and make our decision on bringinng in the mama cat after all the kittens are fixed. There's still four more to go when they get a little bigger.

Here's a link w/pics 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

Rick


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## Jeanie

Rick, they are such sweet little kittens! Who could ask more than what you are doing for this family? You and your wife are more than kind. I will be watching for your posts, and hoping against hope that there will be a happy ending for this family. God bless.


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## Mitts & Tess

I went and looked at the pictures of the momma and kittens. What a group of cuties! My heart immediately went out to the torti momma. I had fostered a sweet torti mom with her kittens. The vet thought she was only 7 months old when she got pregnant. She was an excellent mom & raised her kittens at my house. The kittens were all adopted out but it took awhile for the momma to find a home but she found the perfect person to adopt her. 

People are either drawn to torti cats or the other extreme and dont like that torti look, is what I found. There a huge torti loving group of cat people out there.

:luv :luv :luv :luv


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## rtre1979

To All,

Here's the latest. The three kittens being socialzed in our home are doing well with one being more resistant than the others. He doesn't want to allow us to get close to him unlike the other two that let us walk over and pick them up. We allow them to run around our living room and they are all happy to play, wrestle and sleep wherever they want. At night, we leave them in our pantry with a nice basket to sleep in and they are doing well. 

We are warming up to the idea of keeping the two sweet ones (Ginger and Little Stinky) and adopting one out through the Humane Society if he decides to warm up to us and become socialized. Otherwise, he's fixed so he can go out to his feral ways if there's no chance of socialization.

The other four outdoor ferals have decided to find somewhere else to sleep the last couple of nights and we did not see any of them at all today or night. It's a good thing one of them, a female, has already been TNR'd.

The mama cat came back this morning and evening to eat, called for the kittens, but none of the showed up. Since they are now about 2-3 months old, it may be that they are just leaving our yard that was thier 'nest'. 

We will see if they show up at all tomorrow. Hopefully they come back around so we can TNR the last three.

Rick


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## Heidi n Q

rtre1979 said:


> ...kittens being socialzed ...
> ...one being more resistant than the others.
> ...if there's no chance of socialization.


Ginger and Little Stinky sound like lucky kitties to have been taken in by you. :luv 
I wanted to comment about kitten #3 and socialization. When cats (_and especially kittens at this crucial age of their development_) have reached this point of remaining stand-off-ish, it becomes up to *us* to decide how socialized this animal will be. If people allow this type of animal to call-the-shots as to what the cat/kitten deems "acceptable", then this animal will have absolutely NO desire to change the situation. Why should it? It is being sheltered, fed and cared for from a distance...what else does it need? 
It needs to be shown what it is *missing* from contact with people. 
The good treats, playing and how a hand feels; petting, scrubbling and massaging its' muscles. When a cat/kitten is shown these things and have been worked with past the point of "_uh-oh, this is scary_!" to "_Hey, this feels nice. I think I like this. How do I get more of this attention_?" is when the socializing work has payed off and the cat/kitten is on their way to becoming a happy and relaxed housecat.

I use a fairly intense program to work kittens through this stage. 
Would you be interested in reading about it? 
I really feel, if this kitten is to have a chance at being socialized for an adoption center, the kitten will need to be worked through this program. The kittens are quickly reaching an age where many cat/kitten rescue and adoption centers will not accept a kitten because they are deemed "unsocialize-able". Myself, I think almost any cat can be socialized, they just take more time than others. Most rescues prefer to dedicate their time/resources to the cases with the best chance of a quick turn-around for adoption. However, I think most of my cat/kitten socializing skills were developed on the older and more-difficult-to-work-with animals because I didn't have an organization to guide me and tell me to "not waste my time" with any particular feral or poorly socialized cat. I just worked at it until I got the positive results I wanted to reach. No one told me I _'shouldn't have been able to do that'_...I just kept working at it until I *did* do that.
Anyhow, if you are interested in reading about the techniques and methods I use, here is my "Kitty Cat Boot Camp"... 
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=60586

*I further wanted to say, there is no RIGHT or WRONG way to work with these kitties. You have to choose to do what is best for you, your kitties and the situation you find yourselves in. We can't do it all, we can only do what we can, to make a difference. ...and I think you and your family have already been able to make a good difference in quite a few kitty-cat-lives. 
heidi =^..^=


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## rtre1979

Heidi,

I am very interested in reading your kitty boot camp outline and appreciate your time in writing it. I also think the socializing process is very individualized from both the kittens and the handler's perspective. 

This morning while holding and stroking the third kitten, he started purring. So I believe he's on the right road.

Last night the four outside kittens were missing. This morning they were all back with mama cat. I think it's time to close this thread. I'll start another for updates under Rick's feral kitten updates.

Thanks again for your time and advice. 

Rick


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## Heidi n Q

Awesome! I'm sure we'll all look forward to joining you on your journey with these kitties.


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## Jeanie

As young as these kittens are, Rick, I don't think forcing them in any way is wise. It's probably the best way to make them fear you. I hope you won't you won't even consider force.

You're doing a great job. Keep it up!


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## Heidi n Q

Perhaps I needed to clarify so there is no confusion.


Heidi n Q said:


> ...up to *us* to decide how socialized this animal will be.
> It needs to be shown what it is *missing* from contact with people.
> The good treats, playing and how a hand feels; petting, scrubbling and massaging its' muscles. When a cat/kitten is shown these things and have been worked with past the point of "_uh-oh, this is scary_!" to "_Hey, this feels nice. I think I like this. How do I get more of this attention_?" is when the socializing work has payed off and the cat/kitten is on their way to becoming a happy and relaxed housecat.


Handling kittens/cats isn't about "forcing", it never is. It is simply about gently restraining the animal to allow it to be handled and learn nothing bad happened, and it may even *like* the attention/massaging and allow it the time to grow more and more relaxed with each handling session. 
You cannot get an animal used to handling..._unless you handle it_. The best results are gained through short and easy handling sessions that don't stress the kitty but allow it to process what is happening to it and the time to come to the conclusion that being handled isn't scary and can, in fact, be delightful.
Having got a purr from kitten #3, you're doing great! 
heidi =^..^=

Edit to add, here is a link to a website that has GREAT articles about many issues we sometimes encounter with our cats:
http://www.littlebigcat.com/?action=library
h


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## rtre1979

Hello Again,

Ok, the saga continues. We have successfully brought three of the seven kittens from the into our home and all are doing great, happy, playing and very sociable, allowing us tp pick them up, they follow us. I guess it's been a couple of weeks now. One big happy family. 

Yesterday we brought in #4. We call her Bear. This one's the runt. She's of course a little scared but has allowed my wife to pick her up without much fuss, maybe one hiss, but no attempt to bite or scratch and is still when she is being held. 

We placed her in the large pantry with the other kittens and they all spent the night together. This morning, the three ran for thier breakfast plate, and the new member hung back. Then the new little kitty hissed at the other three and ran under the couch and hid.

She would come out for a little at a time and each time, one of the social ones would come over to investigate, the little one would hiss at it. This has been going on the whole morning. She's frightened, obviously, but it's odd that two weeks ago she was playing with them in the back yard and now they are all strangers to her.

We will see how she handles peer presssure and decide to just give up and join the fun. 

Another question, my wife seems to think it's okay to bring in the mama cat occasionally for visiting rights in our living room. The two times she was in to see her three social kitties, she licked them all and they crowded around to tried to nurse. She allowed this for a bit, then went to the door and wanted out. She seemed happy to see them, and they her. Then everyone just went on thier own happy way.

Is this okay to let her in for a visit? 

As always, we appreciate everyone's time and suggestions.

Rick


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## Heidi n Q

Wow, it sounds like you guys have made amazing progress, great job! 

First, I think it is just fine for the Mamma to come in and check the babies, assure herself they are doing well and the babies receive some comfort from Mamma then Mamma ends contact herself and asks to go back out. No fuss, no muss and easy on everyone.

Next, the little kitty Bear...I believe she is acting 'hissy' because of the different smells and environment. She just needs a bit more time to get adjusted. 
The hissing and the holding herself very still when handled are telling me she is still frightened and unsure of what is happening. If I were there and able to *see* how she is and how she interacts with the household I would have a better idea of what is going on, but I think I would continue to handle her with the goal of getting her to relax and feel more comfortable with being handled. Doing this will boost her self-confidence and I think it would eventually help her relax around her siblings and accept them easier, too. Right now, everything is new and scary and her siblings being boisterous is making her more nervous with their activity because she hasn't learned to understand, accept and relax. She is isolating herself to keep things quiet/still so she can concentrate, unfortunately...she is concentrating on the things that frighten her. Once she moves on and accepts/relaxes, I believe that hissy and stand-off-ish behavior will stop.


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## rtre1979

Hello All,

Once again the excellant advice given paid off and little Bear has decided to join the fun. It took a couple of days of her to relax by herself and then introducing her to the others in a gradually way by bringing one in at a time to meet each other. I mean they are siblings, they should know each other right?. So far so good. They have decided to chase and sleep together like a happy family.

There was however, a really scary episode last night with Bear that I posted in the Health topic of this forum and hope everyone has time to look at this link. http://www.catforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=61060

Rick


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## Jeanie

Rick, you did the right thing. Thank goodness! It is poisonous for cats, and how Hartz gets away with it is beyond me. We always warn our members against Hartz flea treatment. It's best to get Advantage or Revolution at the vet's. Since you just used another product, I would consult your vet re when to use it. You just put a drop on the back of the kittens' necks. It's more expensive, but worth the extra money. 
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5868

I'm so glad the little one is playing with the rest of the litter.


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## Heidi n Q

Yay! I'm glad the kitten family is happily all back together again! ...I read about your poor experience with Bear, I'll bet that was scary. I'm glad she survived and is doing so well. I'll keep fingers/toes crossed that she doesn't have any lasting effects from the Hartz products. 
I also do not know why hartz is allowed to remain available in stores...I think it is an awful product.


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