# How do I know if she loves me?



## aquino46 (May 25, 2006)

I love my little cat to death, she's my little baby and I could not imagine I would love a little furry creature as much as I love her.

Lately I've been wondering, does she have any idea I love her? Other than the fact that I give her food and attention, does she appreciate me?

She can be a sweetheart sometimes, but like any cat, she gets annoyed every once in a while and bites me. She bites me more than any other person in her life. Is it because I sepnd more time with her than annyone else, or because I really anoy her sometimes.

What are some of the signs that cats give when they love a person? I want to know that this is not only a one-sided affection. HOw do you know if your cat loves you?


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## coaster (Dec 1, 2004)

She bites you more than any other person? Ummmmmm......would these be what we call "love-bites" that she's giving you? Question answered. :lol: 

PS - you should discourage your cat from biting you even if they're love bites and you need the reassurance. Search the forum on the keyword "biting" and I'm sure you'll find a lot of threads about the subject. 

PPS - and what if it was one-sided? Do you have a cat because of what the cat can give you? Or because of what you can give the cat? Or maybe some of both? And if it wasn't an even exchange, would that make a difference?

PPPS - and don't you wish I'd stop asking all these annoying questions?


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

aquino46 said:


> She bites me more than any other person in her life.


You always hurt the one you love the most! :lol:

Seriously, signs of kitty affection include rubbing up against you to mark you and claim you as hers. Head butts, purring, seeking petting. Greeting you with tail straight in the air. Presenting her butt to you to sniff is a great honor. Sleeping with you. Responding to her name, even if it's just looking at you and not actually coming when called. Occasionally listening to you when you tell her to do (or not) something. If she goes outside, bringing you disgusting presents. Grooming you. And more....

Not all cats do all these things, but some combination of these things are pretty good indicators that they kinda like you :lol:


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## aquino46 (May 25, 2006)

That's the thing, she sends mixmessages. One of the saddest things for me is that she doesn't sleep with me at night. Before I go to sleep, she usually stays next to my bed and watches me as I watch TV. But when I wake up in the morning or the middle of the night, she's never there. Whenever I take a nap during the day though, she usually would cuddle with me.

She doest go out, but once she brought me a torn and broken hairband she had destruyed and placed it next to my bed.. I don't know if it means anything, or am I just trying to read into things.


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## coaster (Dec 1, 2004)

These are only "mixed messages" if you're a human. Don't worry, your cat loves you just fine, and also knows and appreciates your affection. You might benefit from learning more about how cats think and how they communicate. Doodlebug gave you a short list. If she told you everything she knows, she'd have to write a book. Maybe she has. Doodle, have you published anything? :lol: 

Seriously, though, learning more about your cat, how she thinks, and how she communicates, will be very rewarding for you both. Then you wouldn't think things like "one of the saddest things for me is that she doesn't sleep with me at night." Because you are reading in things that aren't there, things you're reading in because you're thinking in terms of human thoughts and actions.


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## Gudewife (Jun 27, 2004)

What Tim said...cats almost never give mixed messages to each other. It's only humans that seem to get the message muddled. IMO, a cat's world extends about as far as the tips of its whiskers, and their motto is "and this affects me how?" They're not really conscious of the human need for validation and affirmation, and even if they were, they probably wouldn't care too much. "Not my problem" is also a big cat motto.

Maybe your cat is a "night prowler" who tends to sleep more in the daytime and spends the night poking around and looking out the window. I think it's nice that she sits and watches you until you go to sleep...think of it as her "tucking you in" (in human terms). Once she knows where you are, and that you're staying there, she feels free to go off and do her thing. What _is_ important is that you recognize your cat's "usual" behavior, and will notice and investigate if she suddenly starts deviating from that.

How do I know my cat "loves" me? I don't really think in those terms...I know that Assumpta is very bonded to me in a certain way, but I try not to impose human language and definitions on her. She is what she is...sometimes she treats me like a kitten, sometimes she treats me like her momcat, sometimes she treats me as a mere companion cat, and sometimes she treats me like an adversary cat. I think we fill a lot of roles for our cats, and if we try to relate to them on more catlike terms, it opens up a huge world of interesting dynamics. But first we have to let go of our "species-centric" thinking (yes, I just made that up, for lack of a better phrase). Cats just have no real use for words.


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## Smirkitty (Apr 19, 2008)

aquino46 said:


> That's the thing, she sends mixmessages. One of the saddest things for me is that she doesn't sleep with me at night.


Most cats are nocturnal in nature, meaning that their primary time for activity (in the wild it would be hunting) is at night. As stated above, she isn't sending you mixed messages, she is being a cat. They confuse us, perhaps, but they aren't sending mixed messages.



aquino46 said:


> Before I go to sleep, she usually stays next to my bed and watches me as I watch TV. But when I wake up in the morning or the middle of the night, she's never there.


I once had a very snooty cat. She would walk near you, twisting her body and looking adorably pettable, but one little pet was all she would take and then ZOOM she was off. She never ever slept with me, but every night, a few moments after I laid down in bed, she would jump up, walk near my head, sniff my eyes, and then be gone again. I always thought it was her tucking me in  (when she stopped doing this, we knew she wasn't long for this world...and we were right, a few months later her kidneys gave out)



aquino46 said:


> She doest go out, but once she brought me a torn and broken hairband she had destruyed and placed it next to my bed.. I don't know if it means anything, or am I just trying to read into things.


A gift of any kind that she brings you is just that, a gift. She has no idea what humans value, but perhaps she thought it looked like a nice toy, and thought you might want it.

Everything your cat does to or for you is an attempt to communicate. It's up to you to figure out what it means. When she bites you, she could be attempting to groom you, as cats do with other cats, so that means she likes you. She could also be overstimulated from the petting, and its her way of saying "hey, enough already! gimme a break!"


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

Here's a good sleeping example....Maggie always sleeps with me. Sometimes on top of my legs, sometime cuddled right up next to me, and sometime all the way at the foot of the bed a couple feet away from me.

Now I could interpret it as she's mad at me when she sleeps far away and she's really loving me when she's right on top of me. But the reality is that it's about warmth. If I follow the patterns, she's on top of me when it's really cold and she down at the foot of the bed underneath the ceiling fan when it's warm and various places in between depending on the temp. 

So, why do I say that sleeping with me is an indicator of "love"? Because she's there every night, no matter where in the bed it is. And sleeping on top of me is an indicator of extreme trust. 

Now Kobi, rarely comes up on the bed at night. He has other ways of showing his bond to me. When I sit on the couch he wants to be in my lap. Something Maggie never does.

So each cat is different in the way they express themselves. You need to understand the messages *your* cat is putting out and what they mean. A good book for you to read would be "Think Like a Cat" by Pam Johnson Bennett. I found it in Borders or any of the online book sources will have it.


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## Kobster (Feb 1, 2007)

I love this thread. Just thought I would say so. My cats are constantly waving their butts in my face, so I must be much beloved by them all!


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

doodlebug said:


> aquino46 said:
> 
> 
> > She bites me more than any other person in her life.
> ...


this is so interesting!! Does responding to noises count? (i dont really call their names, but they have their noises that i use, and they usually do look and/or come over). their tails are always in the air too!! (unless sleeping of course! lol)

ive been wondering lately do they love us, or how can we tell them in a way theyd understand that we love them. i mean, i kiss them all the time (on their head in between the ears lol), and pet them, but ive wondered if they know what it means. i certainly hope so!

simba has something he does... i call it 'shower lovins'. everytime after i have a shower, the minute the water stops, he meows to come in. once hes in, he nuzzles and just wants some petting/loving. my mom loves coming in to the bathroom after and seeing all the cat hair in the toilet  lol. she doesnt like me leaving it on the floor so i put it in the toilet. lol.


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## coaster (Dec 1, 2004)

You washed his scent off. He's reapplying it. You're his, he wants the world to know it.


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

coaster said:


> You washed his scent off. He's reapplying it. You're his, he wants the world to know it.


could that really be why?? that would be so sweet!!

he used to sleep in bed with me sometimes, but since hes taken to playing with the cat door on my door, and now theres a towel in it at night. lol. so he cant get in. once in a while he will start out in my room, and usually leaves when i get up to pee. lol.

Boo on the other hand only slept with me when she had to be in my room after she got spayed. she fell asleep on my belly. it was too cute!! she did that every night (she was in there so she would jump less and wouldnt be bothered by the other pets). Shes not in there at night usually though because she gets up on the shelves and knocks everything down. lol. 

but when im on the comptuer they both love to come see what im doing, head butts, nuzzles. sometimes ill brush them there (i think they get annoyed that i found something else to do, lol).

theyre too funny, and cute!!


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## Immortal (Mar 28, 2006)

Suki is funny. She isnt much of a nocturnal cat and she knows as soon as i get into bed its sleepy time, so she comes and pushes her way under my arm and gets comfy. She is a chronic 'love-biter' all through the night any piece of exposed flesh will have kitty teath sunk into it!!

As for noise well...i only have to address something in her direction to get an immediate 'brupp' response. She is quite amazing, she knows exactly when im talking to her or not, and she always replies to me buy brupping or meowing back. 

Her wake up call consists of putting her face right up to mine, nose to eye then licking my eye lids (which can be a wee bit painfull) but it gets me up. 

She isnt one for being picked up or sitting on knees but loves to sit next to you on the bed, on the desk, keyboard. She likes to be close but not nessasarily petted (which is why i often get nipped, cant help sneaking in secret pets).


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## Rain13 (May 21, 2008)

Love is a very subjective concept. The evolutionary purpose of the set of behaviors and emotions that we call "love" is primarily self-preservation. In other words, the reason that any creature, human or cat, "loves" is because it is beneficial to their own survival or to the survival of their offspring. There is much debate as to whether humans are capable of "love" beyond this evolutionary definition, however, and I personally think that our higher functioning brains allow us to love in a way that other animals cannot.

When a cat displays behavior that we consider "affectionate" towards its owner, it does so because it has learned that displaying such behavior will result in a desired response. When your cat rubs against you or displays other behavior that you interpret as "loving", you are likely to give it food or to scratch it, and it is therefore encouraged to repeat this behavior. It's called the "Norm of Reciprocity" in Psychology, which states that we treat others well so they treat us well in return.

Sorry if I'm sounding all cold-hearted and technical, but cats simply aren't capable of the type of "love" that people generally attribute to other human beings. Their brains aren't developed enough to experience objective thought or to have any kind of self-awareness, and therefore they are limited to behaving in their own self-interest only. 

This doesn't change the fact, however, that your cat's affectionate behavior towards you indicates that it feels safe and comfortable around you. Purring and rubbing up against you means that your cat looks up to you as its protector, and is fulfilled by its interactions with you. In regard to my relationship with my cat, I try to be satisfied knowing that she gives me everything that I desire (purring, head-butting, and licking), and I give her everything that she desires (scratches, food, and playing). While she may not "love" me in the same way that I love her, she "loves" me in the only way that she is capable of, which is good enough for me.


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## Bethany (Jul 19, 2006)

Well, yes. Loving behavior -- like everything else -- evolved so as to better pass down our genes to the next generation.

However, the fact that love has an evolutionary purpose doesn't necessarily mean that we don't really feel "love." Consider that hunger has a clear evolutionary purpose -- to make sure we get enough calories to stay alive. It doesn't follow that we don't really feel "hungry."

Similarly, we shouldn't confuse the evolutionary reason for a behavior with the reason an individual organism engages in the behavior. Consider sex. The evolutionary purpose of sex is obvious: so we procreate and pass on our genes. That's about as fundamental as it gets. However, it doesn't follow that every time an organism engages in sex, it's doing it for the purpose of procreation. Sales figures for birth control make that abundantly clear!

That said, I agree that cats don't love us the same way that we love them. They're just too different from us as a species, with a different social structure and with different mental capacities.

I do think they love us in their own feline way, though. 

On another note, am I the only one who gets the song, "How does she know that you love her?" from _Enchanted_ going through my head every time I see the title of this thread?


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

so, how can we tell them that we love them? Is that what they get from the scratching result from a head butt? or when you fill the bowl for them?

I kiss them all the time & hug them, im just not sure they know what it means.


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## coaster (Dec 1, 2004)

Rain13 said:


> Love is a very subjective concept. The evolutionary purpose of the set of behaviors and emotions that we call "love" is primarily self-preservation. In other words, the reason that any creature, human or cat, "loves" is because it is beneficial to their own survival or to the survival of their offspring. There is much debate as to whether humans are capable of "love" beyond this evolutionary definition, however, and I personally think that our higher functioning brains allow us to love in a way that other animals cannot.
> 
> When a cat displays behavior that we consider "affectionate" towards its owner, it does so because it has learned that displaying such behavior will result in a desired response. When your cat rubs against you or displays other behavior that you interpret as "loving", you are likely to give it food or to scratch it, and it is therefore encouraged to repeat this behavior. It's called the "Norm of Reciprocity" in Psychology, which states that we treat others well so they treat us well in return.
> 
> ...


Actlually, I agree with all of that (which is why I quoted the whole thing, something I seldom do). But.....being too outspoken about that on cat boards is likely to get a chilly response. Most folks on cat boards view their cats as a furry child-person. In fact, on one board, it seemed everybody but me referred to their cats as "fur-kids." Frankly, it got a little irritating. People like to anthropomorphize their pets. And because they give love, *human* love, they like to think they're receiving it back in kind. So, the last paragraph is your redemption. :lol: :wink:


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## coaster (Dec 1, 2004)

Claiken said:


> so, how can we tell them that we love them?.


You can observe what they do to show their "affection" toward you and respond in like manner. I do head butts, side-swipes, nose-bumps, eye-blinkies. I do grooming, but not with my tongue. I blow air at their butt when they present it to me; I will NOT inhale. And I do all the human stuff, too: scratchies, kissies, pets, etc etc. But don't worry about it too much. Just love them. I think they get the picture.


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## hypertweeky (Nov 25, 2007)

I know kittens bite their moms, it is more a nibble, and it shows affection.
Tiger does this to me all the time, doesn't hurt, he likes to think he owns me (he does!) LOL


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## Gudewife (Jun 27, 2004)

coaster said:


> Claiken said:
> 
> 
> > so, how can we tell them that we love them?.
> ...


Geez...you're just NO fun! (s'kidding...for the record, I did NOT eat the mousie)

Yeah, I also do a lot of cat things...Assumpta and I just had a little discussion about counter-surfing in which I just silently invaded her space until she made the decision to get down on her own...it's usually more effective to deal with her that way.

I wonder if it would work on my mother-in-law?


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## coaster (Dec 1, 2004)

A stare-down with MIL? That would be worth buying tickets to. :lol:


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## Gudewife (Jun 27, 2004)

No one could stare down MIL...she would interpret it as rapt attention.

The woman asked me today about whether or not Assumpta still attacks children...I said "Uh, yeah," and noted that kids and dogs must follow the same rules when visiting...either crated or on a short leash indoors (oddly my dog friends visit occasionally, but the ones with kids stay away...which is actually fine by me).

She "tsked" at me, and asked "Well, have you tried just slapping her hard and saying NO??" 8O 

Gosh, must have slipped my mind. Duh...how do you think she got the way she is, anyhow? Eight years of trying to get Assumpta semi-sane, and now I should start slapping her around? Not.

And that was just the first five minutes of conversation...it went downhill from there. :roll: 

I know my cat "loves" me because every time my in-laws come in the house, Assumpta just sits there, growling softly and deliberately putting herself between MIL and me at all times. She totally goes all Momcat.


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## gunterkat (Aug 19, 2006)

I think our kitties learn at least some human affectionate behaviors.
Just a couple of days ago I was hurting, and limping worse than usual. Arianwen looked at how I was walking, then up at me. gave me blinkies, and asked, "You alright?". My sweet kitta knew I wasn't feeling well. That night she stayed snuggled against me all night, warming my legs and back, taking away a lot of the pain. :heart

Trust me, you'll know your kitty loves you. Just by being around her and becoming accustomed to her meows and body language you will learn what she's telling you. It might take a some time to get used to, but you'll find that kitties have a lot to say. And, some of their responses are very quick, so much so that you really have to be paying attention to notice any response at all.
rcat


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

Gudewife said:


> "Well, have you tried just slapping her hard and saying NO??"


Ahhh....too tempting....I would have had to say "why don't you come over here and let me practice on you first".


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## coaster (Dec 1, 2004)

Those descriptions above are just too sweet. 

I was sitting at my computer recently, dozing off and not getting anything done. I turned my chair around, put elbows on knees, head in hands, and just sat, head hanging down and half asleep for some minutes. Eventually I felt the pat-pat of little feet on my face, waking me. I swear, at least the sense I get, is that she was checking to make sure I was all right.


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## coaster (Dec 1, 2004)

Gudewife said:


> .....that kids and dogs must follow the same rules when visiting...either crated or on a short leash indoors


Hey, that's a great policy....I'd love to see leash laws for small children out in public. Muzzles might be a good idea, too. :lol:


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## OctoberinMaine (Sep 12, 2006)

I'm coming in late on what is a fascinating thread. I've wondered about this a lot myself.

I agree that cats aren't capable of love, but there's something else that's probably just as important to them and their well-being -- feeling safe. If a cat jumps in your lap and falls asleep there (which Murphy just did an hour ago for the first time), does a lot of plopping down to show you his belly, purrs and rubs all over you, I think it's pretty clear they feel safe with you, which is the highest possible compliment.

I've wondered if they understand that us kissing them is a sign of affection. I guess at the very least it's benign to them, since it doesn't hurt. Do you think they get that it's a sign of affection?


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

coaster said:


> Those descriptions above are just too sweet.
> 
> I was sitting at my computer recently, dozing off and not getting anything done. I turned my chair around, put elbows on knees, head in hands, and just sat, head hanging down and half asleep for some minutes. Eventually I felt the pat-pat of little feet on my face, waking me. I swear, at least the sense I get, is that she was checking to make sure I was all right.


awww! Thats just too darn precious!!


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## Bethany (Jul 19, 2006)

October said:


> I've wondered if they understand that us kissing them is a sign of affection. I guess at the very least it's benign to them, since it doesn't hurt. Do you think they get that it's a sign of affection?


Most of the cats I've known have disliked being kissed. I don't think they realized it was a sign of affection. Now, if I'ld _licked]_ them instead...


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## coaster (Dec 1, 2004)

October said:


> I've wondered if they understand that us kissing them is a sign of affection. I guess at the very least it's benign to them, since it doesn't hurt. Do you think they get that it's a sign of affection?


At the very least, mine have learned to tolerate it. When I first got Twinkie he would turn his face away and struggle when I kissed him but now he just patiently holds still until I'm finished.

But I think Mellie understands it as affection. Often I hold her in my arms and kiss and nuzzle the top of her sweet-smelling little head. Sometimes she'll press her head up into my lips as though she's enjoying it and responding in kind.


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

October said:


> I've wondered if they understand that us kissing them is a sign of affection. I guess at the very least it's benign to them, since it doesn't hurt. Do you think they get that it's a sign of affection?


Since they always seem to put themselves in a position where they know they're going to get kissed, I think they must like it, at least to some extent. Holly knows that when she crawls up on my chest and sits down that she's going to get petted and kissed and hugged and squeezed and yet she still does it almost every night and stays for a while. So she's gotta like it.


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## coaster (Dec 1, 2004)

Twinkie kisses back. :lol:


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## Rain13 (May 21, 2008)

I think they are capable of learning to interpret our affectionate behavior, just as we learn to interpret theirs. Whenever I get home my cat greets me at the door and rubs up against my legs until I get onto the floor with her and we head butt or what my girlfriend calls "face nuzzle". Basically she (the cat, not my girlfriend), headbutts gently against my face and leaves it there and we nuzzle and I give her kisses. It's all very cute (even my girlfriend won't do this, my stubble is too painful, she says). So now whenever I lean my face into hers she nuzzles against my cheek, even if she's not in a super happy mood, so I'm sure she's learned to interpret this (and also kisses which always go along with nuzzling) as my way of showing affection.


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## Smirkitty (Apr 19, 2008)

To adequately respond, we'd have to define love, which I don't think I have the energy to do ;P

I chose to believe my cats know (or did know, as the case may be) that I love them, and that they love me. 
They appear to be contented, they appear to enjoy contact with me, that's good enough for me. 
Ananlyzing stuff too much gives me a headache, I can live with just accepting the truth


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## gunterkat (Aug 19, 2006)

Arianwen knows a kiss is a human form of expressing affection, and she kisses back. 
She also softly pets me with her little hand sometimes. :heart

Cats sometimes do things by 'ritual', a fixed dialog of actions and responses. Arianwen has a little kissing ritual that she does with me. She licks and kisses my forehead, then presents her forehead for me to kiss. I kiss her, and recently added a head-butt and forehead rub to the ritual, which Arianwen really likes. I'm curious to see if she adds something like grooming or scent-marking to our little ritual.


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## OctoberinMaine (Sep 12, 2006)

I read somewhere that cats can probably interpret human smiles as a positive emotion. If that's true, you'd think they could interpret kisses as positive too. I tell you what, I couldn't have a cat that doesn't at least tolerate kisses. I must kiss Murphy 25 times a day. He's probably wondering what's wrong with me. :lol:


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## Bethany (Jul 19, 2006)

Dunno. Mine sort of tolerate it but generally try to squirm away as quickly as possible. I don't think they get that kissing is like human licking. 

They like head-butts, though.


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

October said:


> I read somewhere that cats can probably interpret human smiles as a positive emotion. If that's true, you'd think they could interpret kisses as positive too. I tell you what, I couldn't have a cat that doesn't at least tolerate kisses. I must kiss Murphy 25 times a day. He's probably wondering what's wrong with me. :lol:


im the same with my cats. they get kissed, like it or not! lol


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## hypertweeky (Nov 25, 2007)

Rain13 said:


> I think they are capable of learning to interpret our affectionate behavior, just as we learn to interpret theirs. Whenever I get home my cat greets me at the door and rubs up against my legs until I get onto the floor with her and we head butt or what my girlfriend calls "face nuzzle". Basically she (the cat, not my girlfriend), headbutts gently against my face and leaves it there and we nuzzle and I give her kisses. It's all very cute (even my girlfriend won't do this, my stubble is too painful, she says). So now whenever I lean my face into hers she nuzzles against my cheek, even if she's not in a super happy mood, so I'm sure she's learned to interpret this (and also kisses which always go along with nuzzling) as my way of showing affection.


That's sweet I do the very same with Tiger, I love a good face nuzzle, his nose is always so cold though! :wink:


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## Rain13 (May 21, 2008)

October said:


> I read somewhere that cats can probably interpret human smiles as a positive emotion.


Where did you read this? I would find that really surprising because the process of facial recognition, and therefore the process of recognizing facial expressions, is one of the most advanced functions of the human brain. Humans have evolved to communicate very effectively through facial expression alone, so we have a brain region dedicated to this purpose. Cats, on the other hand, don't communicate with facial expressions at all to my knowledge, so their brain lacks this specialized region (it's called the Fusiform Gyrus in humans). So I think it would be biologically impossible for a cat to even recognize that we make facial expressions, let alone interpret them successfully.


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## gunterkat (Aug 19, 2006)

Kitties can recognize patterns, so I don't think they would necessarily need a specialized area in their brain to learn what a smile looks like and learn that a smiling human is a good thing.

My R.B. kitty Sam knew what a smile was, and could even imitate one. It looked a little funny on a kitteh's face, but he smiled. When he first did it I thought he was snarling, and that hurt his feelings a little.

Arianwen smiles sometimes, too. But I think hers is a natural kitty facial expression.
rcat


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## Smirkitty (Apr 19, 2008)

Many animals, including cats, communicate with each other using facial expressions and body language. There are massive amounts of scholarly literature to support this.


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## Bethany (Jul 19, 2006)

I would think cats can recognize faces. I don't know much about cat facial recognition but sheep famously areas in the brain where neurons are tuned for faces (some for sheep faces, others for human and dog faces) so I don't see an _a priori_ reason to think that cats couldn't do this.

There is also apparently some controversy about whether the fusiform face area really is strictly for processing faces.


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## coaster (Dec 1, 2004)

Rain13 said:


> So I think it would be biologically impossible for a cat to even recognize that we make facial expressions, let alone interpret them successfully.


It may not be the facial expression per se, but my experience with my own cats is that they can recognize my moods. Even if I fake the mood by scowling and glaring at them, they seem to interpret as me being angry. I don't doubt what you say about cats' ability to understand facial expressions, but I do think that living with humans they can learn. 

And as far as cats' own facial expressions, yes, it's true they don't have the mobile facial fascia and musculature etc to form expressions _in the same manner as humans_ but they certainly do use facial expressions. I think it's mostly eyes and ears and whiskers, though there's more to it than that and it's too subtle for me to really quantify. But I can definitely tell my cats' moods. Again, it's a matter of learning, this time on my side.


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## Gudewife (Jun 27, 2004)

Well, cats certainly use portions of their faces to communicate...ears, whiskers, lips, and eyes. Ever stare down a feral? There's a whole lot of facial expression going on there, much of it fairly meaningless to humans (like changes in pupil size and the angle of whiskers).

Somewhere I have a photo series I took of a shelter cat...he was a total freakzoid fraidy-cat on intake, and in his initial photo, his whiskers are stick-straight out from his face and his pupils are extremely dilated (along with other terrified cat body language). He looks absolutely miserable. After several weeks working with the manager and me, his second photo shows a graceful curve to the whiskers, normal-sized pupils, and a much more relaxed body language...I used that series as a teaching aid with a friend of mine who does NOT understand cats, and she literally could not see the messages until I pointed them out, though I think any of us would have picked up on it instantly. So yes, I think that cats do have some method of communicating _with each other_ through a combination of facial movement and body language (and we can certainly learn such things). IMO, meowing is more tailored to interaction with humans...they seldom meow at each other, preferring the more easily understood body language (and basic vocalizations -growl/hiss - only if needed) for inter-cat communications.

As to whether or not cats understand OUR facial expressions, I'm not so sure it's as simple as that...but I'm quite sure that they can comprehend things like if we're staring at them in an uncomfortable way, and exactly where our eyes are (I've had enough cats take a swing at me that I am quite sure they can identify where the eyes are). But as for smiles and scowls and the like...those things also affect our demeanor and speech, so I couldn't say for sure which cues the cat responds to. But they sure as heck DO respond to things like eye contact, particularly if they're insecure or afraid.

I should also note that I am notoriously bad at understanding human facial expressions and have a fairly high degree of "face blindness." I recognize people more by their hair and glasses than by their faces, and most of the time, I have NO clue what people are feeling by reading their faces. Cats are so much easier for me to understand, probably because there's no disconnect between body language and spoken word. So maybe not all humans are so "advanced" at understanding each other...I'd wager that Assumpta reads human facial expressions better than I do. But under stress, I think that all goes out the window in favor of survival and self-defense (read as: no amount of smiling and sweet words will EVER make Assumpta comfortable at the vet's office).

JMO, for what it's worth.


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## gunterkat (Aug 19, 2006)

As far as individual kitties, Arianwen definitely knows that humans have a face and has proven many times that she knows the parts of a face: forehead, nose, eyes, mouth, chin. She has also proven to me she knows the parts of a human face have corresponding parts on her face by doing kitty-style greeting and affection rituals with me. I also showed her how my smile is a little like her purring, and I think she understands that. 

Our kitties are much smarter than the size of their brains would seem to imply. :wink: 
That is what makes me think that a feline makes more efficient use of his/her grey matter than a hominid.
rcat


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

do any of your cats ever bow their heads, as if to say "you may now kiss me"? mine do quite often! lol.


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## OctoberinMaine (Sep 12, 2006)

You guys are providing some very interesting reading! I sure don't remember where I read the thing about cats being able to interpret smiles. It was somewhere on the Internet, so therefore it must be true. 8) 

We know cats use the slow blink to indicate an "I trust you" emotion, so that's at least one example of facial expressions meaning something to them. We all know from experience that if we slow blink the cat, chances are they'll slow blink back. 

A man I knew referred to 2-year olds as being "congruent." That is, they haven't learned to mask their feelings, so everything you see from them, every facial expression, is true to what they're really thinking. Same goes for a cat. That's one of the things I love about them.


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## gunterkat (Aug 19, 2006)

Claiken said:


> do any of your cats ever bow their heads, as if to say "you may now kiss me"? mine do quite often! lol.


Arianwen kisses me on my forehead, right at the top of my nose, then presents her forehead for me to kiss the same spot. :luv
She's such a sweet little tiger. :heart


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## Smirkitty (Apr 19, 2008)

October said:


> A man I knew referred to 2-year olds as being "congruent." That is, they haven't learned to mask their feelings, so everything you see from them, every facial expression, is true to what they're really thinking. Same goes for a cat. That's one of the things I love about them.



Cats, like kids, know the truth that love is a behavior. It's what you do, not how you feel.


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## gunterkat (Aug 19, 2006)

It's both, tied together. The behavior comes from the heart, as unscientific as that may be.  :heart


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## coaster (Dec 1, 2004)

Oh, you guys are getting way too philosophical for me. :lol:


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## talullah (May 25, 2008)

This one thread has been SO informative!!! Thank you guys!

My sweet cat of nearly 18 years passed away in '06 - and we communicated in an amazing way. I'd always tell him that I wish he could talk to me - VERBALLY. I know he did in his own way.

We had him put down because it was is second bout with renal failure. We had nearly 3 great years between the episodes. I remember the day before it happened, he stayed to himself at the foot of my bed. I went to the end of the bed crying and talking to him, and I asked him to *please* let me know if he was OK with what was going to happen. I mean - he was so very sick and I'm sure he had to remember the pain he went through before. There's no way my husband and I could do that again. We loved him too much.

Anyway, I was laying there - eyes closed and crying - and Madison put his little hand on mine. That was the first time in 2 days he wanted any kind ot touch whatsoever. 

That calmed me down and I knew we had to do it. 

He was an amazing gift to me. I miss him every day.


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## OctoberinMaine (Sep 12, 2006)

I don't know about that statement either. If cats aren't motivated to please us, why would they care about whether or not they get head scratches? 

There must be a desire to connect on some level that isn't completely self-serving. Calling it love may be too much of a stretch, but how about just the reassurance of having a physical connection of some kind? They'd do it with each other if we weren't around.


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## coaster (Dec 1, 2004)

Fiery said:


> I don't know if I necessarily agree with that statement.


I don't agree with it, either. It's too simplistic and mechanistic. My cats display that behavior without any apparent motive for self-gain. Because they'll still do it even I do absolutely nothing in return.


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## hypertweeky (Nov 25, 2007)

talullah said:


> This one thread has been SO informative!!! Thank you guys!
> 
> My sweet cat of nearly 18 years passed away in '06 - and we communicated in an amazing way. I'd always tell him that I wish he could talk to me - VERBALLY. I know he did in his own way.
> 
> ...


Oh my gosh that made me cry, sorry about your loss!


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## talullah (May 25, 2008)

You're sweet, thank you. 

I just know that many times I never had to "return the favor" with Madison. He simply wanted to love on ME. Especially at the end - he hurt so badly - he literally moaned if we pet him. That's why I was so grateful for his touch that last day. 

*sniff*


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## Macky (May 26, 2008)

When I moved in with my husband, his cat, Muffin was 10 years old. She sort of ignored me for 1 year. I couldn't touch her or even look at her sometimes. She would just run away. So hubby and I went away for a week and left her and my dog in the hands of a pet sitter. When we got back and settled in I went into the bedroom to lay down and here comes Muffin. She jumps on the bed comes over to my head sniffing me. She laid down next to me and began kneading my arm and suckling on my shoulder while purring like crazy! After that she went back to her independent ways but I knew she truely loved me.


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## Huge2 (Jan 28, 2008)

Fiery said:


> "When a cat displays behavior that we consider "affectionate" towards its owner, it does so because it has learned that displaying such behavior will result in a desired response. When your cat rubs against you or displays other behavior that you interpret as "loving", you are likely to give it food or to scratch it, and it is therefore encouraged to repeat this behavior. It's called the "Norm of Reciprocity" in Psychology, which states that we treat others well so they treat us well in return. "


AKA Cupboard Love.
Cats don't "love" us in the same way children would or parents would, but they certainly know who will be providing food or attention. They are smart, yes, but not so well evolved that they "love". Peggy ALWAYS comes into my room in the mornings as she knows she'll get attention, possibly even if it's a "GERROFF" as she jumps on my head .


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