# First time with TNVR...



## annarbormom (Apr 13, 2007)

I have a garage that is hosting 3 feral cats, a mom and two 9-month old kittens. Dad cat visits infrequently for food. I've been feeding them regularly since November. On Tuesday, I caught mom cat and took her to the vet to be spayed. He determined she had just whelped another litter of kittens in the last 12-24 hours, so I returned her home to her kittens (she whelped them somewhere else). That same afternoon, I caught the Tom cat! He was neutered and returned later that day. 

The next two days yielded nothing....mama won't go near the traps (smart girl) and the two 9-month olds are very skittish. One of the "kittens" looked pregnant--and lo and behold, I went to the garage to set the traps this morning and I heard tiny squeeks. I think the 9-month old had kittens. In the meantime, I think the mom cat's litter died....she's been at my garage almost full-time since Tuesday and she doesn't look like she has any milk (no milk in when we took her to the vet on Tuesday).

What do I do? I'm hesitant to trap right now, because I don't want to catch the new mom. Is it safe to try and find the kittens and move them into a box in the same spot in the corner of the garage? I'm afraid her kittens are on the concrete floor (we're in Michigan with freezing temps). Help!


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## Janice (Jan 12, 2007)

Lord yes... get them off the garage floor. Even leave them in the same spot, just provide a box/blanket. I'm not sure about trapping the mother yet... just wait and see .. make certain she does not have a live litter somewhere else first. Keep us posted...


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## annarbormom (Apr 13, 2007)

*helping new mother*

So....it's safe to touch/handle the new kittens? I'm not even certain that she's done birthing.....I just heard tiny little squeeks. 

Mama is hidden behind furniture/bicycles/etc, so it'll be disruptive to move stuff to find her. I do have a heated outdoor kennel pad (bought that for them this winter), which they often sit on to keep warm. It's out in the open, so I don't think mama wanted to have her babies there. I was thinking about installing the heated kennel pad into a box--good idea?


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

That's worth a try. Or tempt mother cat to eat elsewhere and fix the box in a nice cozy, private place with the kennel pad and covers that you can change. You'll need to touch the kittens as often as possible, so that they become socialized. That way, when they're old enough, a shelter will take them and adopt them out...or you can do it! Good luck, and thank you for caring for this family. 

I would wait for the birthing to be complete before touching the kittens, because Mother cat (if she's there) could attack you. If necessary, though, wear thick leather gloves. Poor babies. So many ferals! And not enough people who care for them. We have some great people here who do though, and you're one of them now!


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## annarbormom (Apr 13, 2007)

*thanks for the advise....*

The feral cats I have in my garage are very anti-social! When I took the older mama cat to the vet on Tuesday, the vet took her out of the trap to evaluate her, because I told him I was suspicious that she recently had kittens. I have NEVER seen a cat go so completely bonkers!! She was acting as if the exam room was a box and was literally scaling the walls. Everything went flying....syringes, the scale....it was complete pandamonium! I guess I share all of this because these feral cats don't seem even remotely approachable (unlike several other stories I've read in this forum today). I'm quite certain that her litter has died  

Anyhow....I don't think that the 9-month old, whom I'm quite certain had her OWN litter today, will be any more friendly. When I go to the garage to feed them, they run and hide! 

While waiting for replies to my post, I called my local humane society and the vet that neutered my mr. tom cat earlier this week. They suggested that since these cats are so distrustful, I may spook the new mom cat...which would lead to the newborn's demise. 

Added to the chaos, we have a raccoon that has been visiting the garage to eat the cat food. We are now taking the cat food up before we go to bed....but, I'm fearful that mr. raccoon may go after the kittens.


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

That's possible, unfortunately.  If worse comes to worse, you could continue to trap, and hand raise the kittens. You can buy kitten milk and a bottle. Many people who care for ferals do that. It's important that the kittens get used to human beings.


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## annarbormom (Apr 13, 2007)

*thanks for you input...*

I certainly appreciate your feedback! I keep going over various scenarios with our situation. Today, I have seen the older mother cat go in and out of the garage. Would she help her 9-month old with her new kittens? Or....maybe she relocated HER kittens, too. She doesn't seem heavy with milk, however.....so, I fear the worst.

I have the traps tied in the open position and have placed their food just inside--so, for the next few days at least, they'll get more comfortable around the trap.

In the meantime, my house cats are perched at the window watching all the chaos. I don't know if the zoo lies in my garage....or, in my house!


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

> Would she help her 9-month old with her new kittens?


That's not far fetched. I saw a documentary on the Discovery Channel about barn cats, and it seems that cats are not the solitary animals we always thought they were. The barn cats were helping with the other females' kittens. 

You know, you can only make the decision you think best. Right now, unless you find the Mother cats litter, it will be hard to tell if she's nursing...unless you get her to a vet. Then he could advise you. I understand your concerns, but it's a difficult situation. If you trap the mother of the kittens you know are nursing, you can tell the vet she has a litter, give them a couple of feedings, and get her back to them as soon as possible after spaying. I had to do this once with a pregnant stray who needed a c. section. The vet let her go home early, and I took care of the kittens until she got back. Her tiny newborns did not do any damage to her incision. Older kittens could, of course.


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## annarbormom (Apr 13, 2007)

That is all VERY useful information. One of the 'experts' I spoke with today thought that if I had a brand new mom spayed, it would dry-up her milk. 

I was also VERY excited to read your comments about the possibility of joint-parenting. If ever a situation warranted that scenario, this is it!

I'm taking a 'break' from the trapping for a few days until I can sort this all out. In the meantime, I have the traps latched open and I'm placing the food in the door. After I trapped mom cat on Tuesday, she won't go anywhere near the trap....and I'm afraid her two 9-month olds are even more skittish.

I'm trying to time my trapping around the vet's hours. Our local organization, The Zimmer Foundation, gave me 4 vouchers to have them spayed/neutered, vaccinated, flea treatment. The vet agrees to whatever reimbursement the Zimmer Foundation offers. It's an unique arrangement and I feel very lucky to have a terrific willing vet and this organization behind me. Also, I'm grateful for your input. This is all very stressful!

One last question....do newborn kittens mew continuously? It was very quiet in the garage this afternoon when I put out fresh food.


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

Mostly, new kittens eat and sleep. They cry if they lose a nipple, though.  

You can't be sure about the joint parenting. This was a program about a group of barn cats who were always together. I would definitely get a bottle and kitten milk from the vet!

When you want to trap, it's best to camouflage the trap as well as you can, and skip a meal or two, if at all possible. (I'm thinking of the nursing mother, who needs more to eat than usual.) Some people skip an entire day. Perhaps you could close the garage with food inside for the new mother. 

Move the traps to a different location, camouflage, and hide and watch. I hope all is well with the kittens. One thing you have to be careful about is feral males. They often kill kittens.  

As for the cat I had with the C Section, that was my experience, and the vet approved. Of course, if your vet tells you not to spay her, don't do it. I don't consider myself an expert. I have learned from experience, reading, and watching educational videos.


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## annarbormom (Apr 13, 2007)

Good grief.....feral males kill the kittens? Yikes....that's completely awful. The only feral male I've ever seen was caught on Tuesday and neutered. It was pure luck that I got him..... I released him later the same day and I haven't seen him since.

You mentioned the possibility of me feeding the kittens with a bottle--but, I'm afraid if I dig into the garage to find them (she's somewhere behind furniture/bikes/boxes), I'll completely freak the new mother out of her mind and she'll bolt. Someone I spoke with today told me not to disturb her because they thought she'd completely re-locate her litter. 

I'll update tomorrow-and I'm certain I'll have more questions by then.

Thanks for everything.


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

You would only feed the kittens if the mother were going to be spayed! Sorry for the misunderstanding. However, those kittens need as much interaction with human beings as possible. Some rescuers take the kittens away from the feral mothers altogether! If you can manage to socialize the kittens until they don't need mother's milk, I think that's better, but there are those who would disagree. My reasoning is that mother leaves them to eat, and you can take advantage of that time. 

Don't be surprised if she moves the kittens, though. I would keep the garage closed, so she cannot take them outside. You might not find them again.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

I found Malibu had a litter under my garden shed and I began feeding canned food. She let this go on for several weeks, until the babies were about 7 weeks old. Then she moved them.

About a month later I saw she had brought them to my front porch to play. I began to leave my garage door up a bit and put food in there. When she had led all four babies inside, I shut the door.

I kept them in there for about 2 weeks until I was able to make arrangements to have Malibu spayed and released back to my property. Hubby and I trapped her babies (now about 12-14 weeks old) and placed them in the Master bath for taming. They all did great and found wonderful homes through PetsMart's adoption program.

Another litter that I hand reared was found in the ductwork of a house under construction that my friends were looking at purchasing. They called me in a panic because they knew the house was going to be sheetrocked and the kittens (and possibly the mother) would be trapped in the ducts. I told them to bring me the kitttens and the mother, if they could. 
Well, mother was feral and ran off hissing and growling. She had to be left behind. The three kittens were brought to me and they were about 2/3 weeks old, eyes open but still needing help with elimination. I bottle raised them and LuckyDuck, our latest rescue, helped me with them...cleaning them and just in general being the surrogate mother, even though what he really wanted was to play with them.

What I'd like to suggest, after having read my two stories...is to perhaps allow the new mother to keep her kittens in the garage until they are about 3/4 weeks old and then you just take them from her and hand rear them and trap their mother and have her spayed. This will assure she is spayed, the kittens are able to be tamed and she doesn't move them before you can get them or the kittens are old enough to avoid you when trying to get them.
Good luck!
Heidi


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

Good ideas.


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## annarbormom (Apr 13, 2007)

Good Morning! I was thrilled to wake-up to more sage words of advise. 

What makes my situation a bit different is that we live downtown and adjacent to The University of Michigan's campus. Most of our neighbors are student rentals....and a church. The one garage that I suspect mom cat #1 birthed her litter belongs to an odd man--and quite frankly, I think if I alert him to the possibility of feral cats in his garage, he'd take steps to eliminate the whole group. Anyhow, we don't live in a suburban utopia--so, I have a strange set of circumstances to contend with.

One concern with shutting the garage door is the other two cats. I think mom #1 may either be helping mom#2--or, she's brought her kittens to my garage, too. 

I just saw someone poking their head out of my garage! I've just set out a beautiful food buffet for these 3 to gorge on. Food is now being taken up at night to avoid mr. raccoon.

My tentative plan is to grab the kittens at 4 weeks and finish hand-raising them. Getting them shouldn't be too difficult, as the adult cats zoom away from me.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

Sounds like you have a plan!


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

I think so too. They get their mother's milk as long as they need it, and are able to eat soft foods. About the racoon...they are nocturnal. I don't think you can avoid them at night.


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## annarbormom (Apr 13, 2007)

*update on my 3 feral kitties*

I've been watching my garage door since Friday (the day I suspected kitty #2 had a litter). Two days went by with no sighting of kitty #2, but I did see mom #1 and the other kitten, who came here to eat  

On Saturday, I rummaged through the garage and found NO kittens. I think she moved them on Friday night to my neighbor's garage. I didn't even find any evidence of a birth!

On Monday, kitty #2 came over to eat! Since then, all three have been here regularly to eat--but, return to the neighbor's garage.

I'm going to watch them closely the next couple weeks. If they're still returning to the neighbor's garage, I'm going to ask him for permission to look for kittens. It's been quite cold here--so, I'm a bit nervous about their survival.


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

I think that's the right thing to do. Kittens need to be warm, and they need a human touch. I think it's best for them to be used to human beings when their eyes open...although that's not too late, of course. 

I would fix a nice bed for them, and put the food near that area, so that mother kitty will know. She might bring them back herself. If not, bring them back, and keep mother cat in the garage when she comes to eat, or in a room that is private. You don't want her to move the kittens where you can't find tham. When the group is eating, you might find the second litter you think might have been born. I wish you the best of luck. 

The reason you didn't find evidence of a birth is because mother cats cleans up everything. She will continue to clean up until the kittens are eating cat food.


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## annarbormom (Apr 13, 2007)

*beautiful bed awaiting the mom(s)*

when i searched the garage on saturday for the kittens, i placed a box filled with polar fleece (which they've slept in many times before) into the back corner of the garage. that's where they hide when i go in to feed them--and also where i heard the squeeks coming from.

I, too, hope she'll find the bed inviting and move her kittens back. Right now, they're off on someone else's property (IF they're still alive). I don't plan to trap anyone until I confirm the kitten's status (both litters)---but, I am feeding them slightly inside the trap. They are VERY suspicious of that trap!!

I'll keep you posted. I'm so grateful for your voice.


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

Have you camoflauged the trap? That would be best. Then put some food with a lot of odor in the trap, such as sardines. I would suggest that you skip a meal or two before setting the trap, if it weren't for the nursing mothers. They need extra food. 

A mother kitty had her litter in a woodpile next to our house. This mother cat knew me and trusted me, so I prepared a bed, food, and litter box in our bathroom. I moved one or two kittens, and they cried for her. She came in, saw the kittens in their bed, and went back for all the rest. It's worth a tryto put a kitten or two in the garage, with the neighbor's permission, of course. However, you'll have to contain her and the kittens so they can't get out. Good luck.


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## annarbormom (Apr 13, 2007)

How does one camoflage a trap? I did get an old towel and place it over the entire trap. 

I've been putting their wet food just inside the trap, with the door tied in the UP position. I don't plan on actually trapping anyone until I know what's going on in kitten-world  If I trap one of the mothers without knowing where the kittens are, the mama cat would be away from them for a day or two for spaying. So...I'm trying to remain patient until I know what's going on with these kittens. 

I have my fingers crossed that IF the kittens are still alive, they'll move them back to the safety of my garage. The bed is all fluffed up and waiting for them


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

Is the food near the bed? Is the bed in a place that is dimly lit and somewhat hidden? (But accessible to you) If a cat has her preference, she will choose a closet or something similar. Mother cats often move the kittens several times. That's why I hope you'll keep her confined to your garage. Even when the kittens eyes are still closed, mother will try to protect them from the light. 

Your cats seem to know that the "thing" with the towel is the trap. When you are ready to trap, you might even have to put leaves in, on, and around the trap, perhaps by putting it in the bushes. Have you asked permission of the neighbors to look for the kittens? Do it when the cats are eating.


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## annarbormom (Apr 13, 2007)

I haven't asked my neighbor for permission yet. I thought I'd wait until the kittens are around 4 weeks old....because if they are in fact in his garage, I would grab them and foster them inside. I'm VERY nervous that if I tell him that there are cats in his garage, he'll take steps to do away with all of them. I've only met the man once and he seems like an erratic fellow. I may do more harm than good by telling him  

My best hope is for the kittens to be re-located back into my garage. Yes..the box is in the back corner of the garage--behind furniture and boxes. It's very dark and protected. It's not so easy for me to get back there-I have to shimmy across a dresser on my stomach in order to even see the box. But---I will take you up on your suggestion and put some food there so that they re-discover the box they used to sleep in  

Thanks for staying in touch with your suggestions. I really appreciate it!


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## zippy96444 (Mar 7, 2006)

Just make sure he doesn't discover them before you can get them. Then he really might do something to them.


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## annarbormom (Apr 13, 2007)

I think my neighbor is a bit oblivious. His property isn't that nicely kept--so, I'm assuming his attention to detail regarding the cats would be about the same. But--that is a valid point. Something more for me to worry about!

I noticed your photos of Mango. We had a cat named Mango-whom we adopted from an animal shelter when she was MUCH too young to be there! She continued to suckle her entire life! One of her paws was deformed as a result. She was a gentle soul who is no longer with us. She had a lovely life, but obviously a rough start.

I am mom to five indoor cats. Each of them has a story. I can't imagine the day that any of the 3 feral cats will find their way into our home--they are SO afraid of humans!!


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

Shelters adopt out kittens far too young. A responsible breeder would not let a kitten go until 12 weeks. However, the shelters have to make room, and the public wants the kittens at far too young an age.  

You'd be surprised how many formerly feral cats are now house pets! It takes patience, but it happens, and how rewarding that is to their families!


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## annarbormom (Apr 13, 2007)

I would be so delightfully surprised if we were able to convert these ferals to house cats. Right now, I'm Godzilla in their eyes.

I'm gone for the weekend---with my parents coming to housesit/cat sit! I've left detailed instructions regarding my garage kitties.....I'm sure this will an interesting weekend for them


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

Have a great weekend, and good luck in The Great Kitten Hunt to Mom and Dad!


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