# Sticky  Info. & Links on why canned is better than all dry diet



## AddFran

Since this is such a hot topic and is debated often on the this forum, I thought I would provide some links on why canned food is better than dry. Even some of the doctors now are coming forward and saying..."Hey, we've been wrong".

I suspect that in the next 10 years we will see many changes in the veterinary world in terms of what vets are recommending in terms of nutrition/diet for cats. 

http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?a ... cannedfood

http://www.vet4petz.com/articles/diabetes.htm

http://www.vetcentric.com/magazine/maga ... CLEID=1430

http://rocquoone.com/diet_and_health.htm

http://www.felinefuture.com/nutrition/bpo_ch4.php

http://www.felinecrf.org/diet_and_nutri ... v_wet_food

http://www.maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm

http://www.fabcats.org/flutd.html 

http://www.ivillage.com/pets/vet/pages/ ... _freqCap=2


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## Padunk

wow, nice research!


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## Ioana

I think that turning Julie's thread into a sticky might make it easier for newcomers to see and read up on before plunging into further analysis
Thank you, Julie for your time and dedication. You are are, undoubtly, one of the forum's experts on cat nutrition


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## AddFran

Thanks guys. 
I'm still learning Ioana - everyday...but I'm working on it. :wink:


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## Sol

Well, I also thought that this post was so informative that it deserves to be a sticky, so voilá! It's a sticky. The research about how to fins a good catfood all of a sudden became a lot easier


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## Bengal Cat

Thanks AddFran lots of good reading to do. 

I'm trying to convert over my Bengal kittens right now from a combo canned/dry to completely canned and hopefully a raw diet eventually but having some difficulty doing it. Older kitten of 5 months I'm having more luck with. I feed Wellness for kittens and she seems to like it but is not going crazy over it. She'll eat about 1/2 of a 3.2oz can 3 times a day. I dont feel like she's getting enough to eat. The younger one of 3 months likes the dry much better. Ive even fasted him for 12 hours and he'll sniff take a few bites and walk away still starving. Ive tried every brand imaginable to peek his palate but no luck. He has in the last few days started to show a little more interest. Ive stopped free feeding dry and offer him canned he eats about a tablespoon or so tehn after a 1/2 hr I'll put down dry and he'll gorge on that until full.


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## Bengal Cat

Oh and whats a sticky...


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## Zalensia

The thread stays at the top of the page (with other stickes/announcments) so it is easily accesible, even if it it not updated.


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## Bengal Cat

Thank you...


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## AddFran

Bengal Cat said:


> Older kitten of 5 months I'm having more luck with. I feed Wellness for kittens and she seems to like it but is not going crazy over it. She'll eat about 1/2 of a 3.2oz can 3 times a day. I dont feel like she's getting enough to eat.


Hmm, at 5 months old...he's probably approximately 5 lbs or so...and if he's eating a 1/2 of a 3.2oz can 3 times a day...he's getting 3.2 + 1.6 = 4.8 oz...that's seems about right to me. I think the norm. is just under an ounce per pound of body weight. He's a kitten, so he's entitled to eat more than an adult cat, however at 5 months he doesn't need to eat as much as the younger one does. The wet food seems to fill them up more as well! 

If the other kitten is 3 months old, he'll probably come around. I wouldn't be so quick to offer him the dry food after the wet. He probably knows it's coming and will hold out for it. Though you have to do what you have to do, if he doesn't eat for a whole day, you gotta feed him whatever he'll eat.


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## Bengal Cat

Thanks again AddFran...She's about 6.5 lbs. maybe I'm feeding her to much lol  Actually I know she sneaks in nibbles of the dry food that I feed the younger guy. I'll have to monitor that and use your 1 oz per pound as a reference. But I feel better about the amount she's consuming. Seems to be right where she should be.

Now the younger one on the other hand chases me around the house darting in and out of my feet looking for food :lol: maybe I'll try withholding the dry food and leave the wet out for a bit longer to see what happens, maybe offer it to him a few times before giving into the dry food.


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## 22Raiynee22

*.*

wow! thankz addfran, you've helped my food search a lot! thankz again!


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## ju

Thanks for posting all of this info - it is so interesting. 

My cats were fed canned food as kittens, but the vet told me to put them on all-dry food as this is apparently better for them. A year down the line one of my cats is overweight and I just haven't been able to figure out why - we don't feed him lots of treats etc.

These articles have given me a possible reason. I'm going to carry on reading them and rethink my cats' feeding regime entirely.

Thanks again!  

Julia


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## AddFran

It really shouldn't be out longer than 30 minutes I believe. Oh, and dry food doesn't clean your cats teeth! It's not a bad idea, however, to rotate dry foods from time to time - this helps your cat become to picky and i think it's supposed to reduce the risk of food allergies...
That last part I'm not absolutely certain about though.


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## sweet_eyes_gramma

This section is INVALUABLE. I hope it's stuck with Super Glue!


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## Ruthie-chan

What about a combo?
I feed my cat at most a half cup of dry food in the morning, and then he gets a forth of a can of wet food for dinner. (I used to give him a whole can, but he only eats about a 4th so, there ya go.)

I thought dry was supposed to help keep a cat's teeth clean.
If it doesn't then what should you do for cat teeth?
I've heard that cats on an all wet diet have teeth problems later in life. . .


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## AddFran

Studies have shown that there really isn't any benefit to having a cat eat dry food at all when it comes to it's teeth. Dr. Jean describes it as expecting eating crackers to help keep your teeth clean. 

A combo of wet and dry is certainly more healthy than dry food alone, but if it fits your schedule you may want to eventually switch to all wet food if you can. 

You can brush your cats teeth if you are concerned about dental hygiene and maintenance, or you can have your vet do it too.


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## emmaniki

*Very Interesting*

Both of my cats are over weight. Niki just passed away, we still don't know why, and she was only five. She was my fat cat. Maybe she would have not gotten sick if I was on this forum months and read this or the debate that has been going on. Not that it was the food that made her sick, but to avoid my other indoor cat Emma, to get sick and continue to be over weight, I will try this. 

Thank you.


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## mcschmidt

I think the 1 oz per pound is kinda excessive, I mean taking into factor my cats weight which is 15 pounds, thats about 15 oz and that seems to be a lot of food!

Also I believe I read somewhere that animals like cats don't benefit from dry food for teeth reasons because their teeth arent designed in such a fashion where it would benefit from such a thing, it's designed for meat and that it


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## CarolinaCatLover

I know this is an old topic here, but I just wanted to add that I had a cat who lived to be 19 and she was only fed canned food (Fancy Feast). We had to have her put to sleep in October because she was in severe pain with arthritis and hip dysplasia and she had stopped eating. Being on the canned food only, she did very well other than her teeth getting bad towards the end. I would definitely recommend a diet of canned and some dry for the teeth.


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## OsnobunnieO

I believe a few studies have shown that dry food MIGHT POSSIBLY have a SLIGHT effect on teeth... but honestly, if they did then feeding a few kibbles (or even crunchy treats) once a day would have the same effect of them being fed nothing but dry food.

Honestly, a good dental hygiene program is really better than depending on food to do the work for you.


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## Annissa

OsnobunnieO said:


> I believe a few studies have shown that dry food MIGHT POSSIBLY have a SLIGHT effect on teeth... but honestly, if they did then feeding a few kibbles (or even crunchy treats) once a day would have the same effect of them being fed nothing but dry food.
> 
> Honestly, a good dental hygiene program is really better than depending on food to do the work for you.


The studies show that dry food produces _slightly less _tartar than wet food. That's it. That's the whole benefit.

So I heartily agree with you on that second paragraph.


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## Vanessatx

*What should I do*

I was just told that the kitten food Im giving my cat is no good, and now I read this so... OK Im gonna start giving Mischief canned food but my problem is I leave myhouse at 8:30 am and dont come back 'till 6. My boyfriend plays with the kitty while he's home but he wont worry about feeding her. My question is how much shpuld I feed her, how often and what do I do while Im gone?. BTW she's about 3 months old


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## Annissa

*Re: What should I do*



Vanessatx said:


> I was just told that the kitten food Im giving my cat is no good, and now I read this so... OK Im gonna start giving Mischief canned food but my problem is I leave myhouse at 8:30 am and dont come back 'till 6. My boyfriend plays with the kitty while he's home but he wont worry about feeding her. My question is how much shpuld I feed her, how often and what do I do while Im gone?. BTW she's about 3 months old


As an unspayed kitten, she should have access to food at all times. Leave out the dry (hey, even finish that bag of Meow Mix!) and give her canned at mealtimes. After her spay operation, remove the dry food and have her only on the canned. She won't starve while you're at work, I promise.


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## Vanessatx

OK, thank you on that tip. I really dont want anyhting to happen to kitty, I prefer to spend some money now and keep her healthy rather than save a couple dollars now and spend thousands later. ( I dont have thousands  )


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## roseeden

I had always wondered what is the difference between those so-called tartar control treats and dry food. Tartar control treats (especially Whiskas) are made of mostly corn and my cats hated them. I had wondered if I could just feed canned food with some dry food instead of feeding canned and using tartar control treats.


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## OsnobunnieO

We sell a prescription tartar control diet made by Hills and I've never quite figured out the difference between it and regular food :roll: 

I think giving a few pieces of kibble after a meal would have just as much effect as giving the "tartar control" treats, and is still just as effective as feeding nothing but dry... based on the theory that dry food keeps teeth clean.

The best way is by brushing though


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## katgrl82

Ok, I looked through some of the links, but I'm still confused. Could someone please summarize the pros/cons of wet vs. dry? Is a mix ok? I don't think I can feed my cats all wet. Right now we are transitioning them over from Purino One to Natural Balance dry. One of our cats gets a pouch of Nutro Natural a day(he has IBS) along with dry. So basically could some just give me a review of what the health benefits, etc. are to feeding wet instead of dry.


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## OsnobunnieO

I think feeding a mix is just fine.

To sum up what I believe to be true about the two:

Feeding ONLY dry food tends to leave many cats slightly dehydrated because they rely on food to get their moisture, most cats don't drink enough water on their own. This can put some stress on their internal organs, like kidneys. Also, it can lead to a more concentrated urine and possible UTIs and maybe even blockages in male cats (females too, but less common).

Most dry foods contain a high amount of carbs and other fillers that cats don't really need. They are carnivores who do best when they eat meat, or mostly meat meals. A lot of lower ended dry foods contain little meat at all (some you really have to search to find it!).

A lot of cats tend to overeat when free fed dry. This leads to a lot of weight issues, as well as a "need" for food all the time... you can read lots of stories about cats who stress out and scratch, pee, and poop all over the house at the sight of an empty bowl.

Wet foods provides moisture. It hydrates them, and keeps the urine a good concentration to provide a healthy urinary tract. It usually keeps them fuller longer since they get more nutrition from the food and are not just "filled" with grains and such. It also tends to keep cats a healthier weight and has been helpful for many people in getting their cats to lose weight.

I personally feed an all wet diet now and have been very pleased. While I tend to scoop about 3-4 clumps of urine every day, I usually get a small amount of poo once a day. His coat is beautiful and soft, and he just seems all around healthy. 

I think you'll do fine on the combo you're starting. Natural Balance is one of the high end dry foods, good choice! Basically, the best diet for your cat is going to be one that he does the best on. If he refuses to eat canned food (some do!) feeding him the best dry you can find is just as good... I mean, it can't be good for him if he doesn't eat it right?

You seem to have your kitty's best interest in mind, and with the attitude you have, seeking out great advice as you are... you really can't do any wrong


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## moggiegirl

I used to buy canned Wellness from a store called Pet People. The sales people who work there have really irritated me because they treated me like they know so much more about feeding cats than I do. These articles prove even further that I know more than they do. This is what they told me.

They told me that canned food is not good for cats. They stressed the old wives tale dry food is a whole lot better for the teeth. One particular dumb blonde(I'm blonde too so I'm not offending blondes) told me that canned food is not very nutritious because it's mostly water. She knew nothing about evaluating nutrients on a dry matter basis. Another sales person in that store just as uneducated told me that with canned food being mostly water there is no way my cats would get their nutritional needs met if I only fed canned food and he said, "Oh don't tell me that's all your feeding them." Well I feed a mix but even if it was they should not be so concerned. Just because dry food is 78% water doesn't mean it's only 10% protein. On a dry matter basis it's more like 45% protein and is formulated to be nutritionally complete. Otherwise cats on canned food would starve to death. We don't see that happening. They saw me buying a lot of canned food and dry food only once in a while and made the assumption that I was doing it all wrong and that they needed to educate me about the importance of feeding dry food only. 

Sales people in pet stores have no business dictating to pet owners how to feed their pets. Their job is to sell the pet food and that's all. The next time a pet food sales dummy tried to dictate to me how to feed my cats I will straight out tell them that they don't own my cats and it's none of their business and I won't care how rude I sound either. 

There are people who choose to feed only dry to their cats. Although I don't agree with feeding only dry I would never dictate to them how to feed their cats and tell them they're doing it all wrong. If they wanted information they would research it. But I am certainly not the boss of them or anyone. Why can't the sales people at Pet People realize that concept and mind their own business? 

Sorry, I had to vent. It gets me so angry how we seemingly have pet food dictators from pet stores and pet food companies. Royal Canin is the worst in my opinion because they very strongly encourage dry over canned. In fact they don't even make canned food.


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## OsnobunnieO

Pet store people tend to say whatever the food reps say, just like people at the vets do.

Its funny, because we had a girl who used to work at a pet store that works with us and there's always statements made (jokingly) by the vet like "oh, that must be something those Nutro people told you!" and in my head I'm always like "uh huh, and those darn Hills people are just as bad!"

I think the best yet is that we sell a TON of z/d ultra, a food for pets with food allergies... and when he starts listing the worst allergy problems being corn and grain... I'm like "excuse me, that's all hills food is made of!!" its insane!

Anyway - I agree with you... if you go in and ASK for a recommendation, that's fine... but you shouldn't be attacked for what you feed. I mean, if they SELL you the food, why are they going to tell you not to feed it?? :roll:


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## JackieT

The makers of Royal Canin make a canned food called Sensible Choice
It is very hard to find this in stores, but can be found online.

I understand being frustrated at the Pet Store employees. Most of us have a story or two....

My recent experience happened 2 days ago.
I went to Petco to pick up my kitten canned wet food, and happily found my favorite brand on sale, Science Diet for Kittens. I grabbed 2, and decided to try the Savory bites this time. I picked up other misc. cat supplies that weren't quite a necessity. I proceeded to the register where 2 very bored teenagers were bickering and ignoring me, the customer. I politely interrupted them and asked for a Frozen Adult Mouse. Both looked at me weirded out, then immediately looked down at my supplies. This _teenager_ began to lecture my on how I shouldn't give mice to my cat, and it is _like soooo gross!_ And that I should get REAL food for my cat, and did I need help picking out Dry food, that that would be better for cat to chew on, not a mouse. Then they had the nerve to argue in front of me who was going to have to get the frozen mouse.
Finally they brought me my mouse, rung up my sale, and I said, "well I was planning on giving my cat a parakeet so he could practice his hunting skills, but I don't feel like cleaning up the feathers...."
I walked out

By the way, the mouse is for my pet cornsnake, so please no hate posts!
I didn't feel like explaining to the brats of Petco, nor was it their business..........


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## moggiegirl

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 
That's good. Very good! I enjoyed that story.  My uncle is really into snakes and raises live mice to feed to them. He also studies snake genetics and breeds them. Nature is nature.


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## roseeden

Well, everytime when I go to ANY store I always look for the oldest guy. The older guys are nice and knowledgeable.

I don't like teenagers, especially teenage girls.

I don't know what am I going to do when I have teenage girls of my own 8O


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## Murasaki

Very unusual. My cat is just over 6 months. Before i got him i bought lots of books and got some advice from a local vet. Both advised feeding predominantly wet food with a bit of dry for their teeth and to nibble on during the day. I am quite surprised the industry advice has been to feed mainly dry food. 

I am quite fortunate my cat doesn't over eat. He does LOOOVE raw food. I don't feed him a raw diet as i am concerned may not not be properly balanced. I have read some threads on home-cooked diets and they seem quite complicated. I do give him a bit of whatever i'm cooking, raw chicken, meat (not fish) and eggs. I also give him cod liver oil capsules every now and then. He loves them.


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## ihave4kitties

I just want to say thank you for all the good information and links. I've tried canned food several times but my cats weren't too interested, Marcellus was alwasy totally disgusted by it. I've become convinced though and decided my cats WILL eat canned. Until joining this site I never knew about all the better brands. I would always buy the better brands at the petstore but I knew nothing about brands such as Wellness, Innova, etc. I've finally convinced my cats.  Even Marcellus, whom I thought never would switch (another post) did! He eats both but more and more I see him eating the canned. I've tried many different brands but he is much more willing to eat the "real meat" types. I've been feeding my cats Felidae (tried it last week) and even Marcellus likes this. I tried Chick Soup too, the other cats love it but Marcellus wasn't interested in that. All 3 like the Felidae. I think the thing that really convinced me the most was the weight issue. Of course there are all the other reasons but the weight one was looking right at me. I was always so careful about not "over feeding." Feeding even less than the bags called for and I had scheduled feedings with little or no treats. Amazingly, my cats are overweight, not by a ton but they're still young. Marecellus has a huge saggy belly and Wallace has one, although not as big. Lewis, who's only one year is getting a saggy paunch! Well I just couldn't figure this out....I am thinking, after this great information on the this site, it must be the dry food as that was all I fed them. So....now we're feeding canned and I'm feeling quite good about that. And I'm so happy to have found a store that carried the "real meat" brands ( I had to do some research here as the big petstores don't carry it) and I'm so happy my cats like it! Thank you!


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## buster's owner

Better late than never...

Just discovered this thread - been off this forum for quite a while - still love my cats though! 

Didn't yet read all the links at the start of this - quickly read thru previous post; esp. ones that seemed most informative. Like the one from Australia - comments sound good - yes, raw meat can be part of a good diet - wonder what all the incredible amount of food that restaurants and butcher shops throw out - why not grind it all up into a pet food mix - freeze it and sell it???

Anyway seems its not a good idea to feed only one type of food, but are we forgetting something? It's not just Dry vs Wet, what about QUALITY? IOW, whatever you feed, get the BEST you can find...and by best, I mean quality, close to natural ingredients(?) Agreed? Or no?

Cats ARE finicky - one time they like a certain food and the next time...??
Variety seems to be the key and hey....aren't people the same...would YOU want to eat the same thing for every meal??

In the wild, cats (big and small) will eat a variety and most prey would be semi-moist (oooo, blood, yuck!!!) wouldn't it?

Wouldn't the ideal food be , shall we call it, meatloaf? IOW, a mix containing raw or cooked meat plus all the usual ingredients in a meatloaf plus the extras (alll natural) that are good for your cat buddy? But try other things...let your buddy decide....and love 'em to pieces, eh?

Had an unusual occurence a month ago - got talking to a lady in a local dollar store about cats (she had a big bag of dry in her cart). Told her that I had lost my best buddy (see my story and pics elsewhere here) - didn't know what took him - he sort of choked to death...BAM, immediately she told me he had died from too much protein in his diet which causes cats insides to "crystalize" (the term she used) - probably from canned food diet (I believe she said) - I asked her how she knew and she said it had happened to her pet(s) too - I really should have had an autopsy done with my pet, but....  ...you know.

to be continued...


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## moggiegirl

> Had an unusual occurence a month ago - got talking to a lady in a local dollar store about cats (she had a big bag of dry in her cart). Told her that I had lost my best buddy (see my story and pics elsewhere here) - didn't know what took him - he sort of choked to death...BAM, immediately she told me he had died from too much protein in his diet which causes cats insides to "crystalize" (the term she used) - probably from canned food diet (I believe she said) - I asked her how she knew and she said it had happened to her pet(s) too - I really should have had an autopsy done with my pet, but....  ...you know.



The lady at the dollar store didn't know what she was talking about. You get that a lot because a lot of people are misguided like that and will try to tell you that wet food is "not good for cats." 

I totally agree about variety. No I wouldn't like to eat the same thing day in and day out and I don't expect my cats to do that either. Spotty made it very clear to me that he doesn't like to eat the same wet food every day and will seek out Rosie's food if feed him a special diet. A vet once told me I had to feed only one special diet food(canned and/or dry version) for the rest of his life and stay away from regular canned cat food. But at his next check up I'll be telling her that Spotty is eating a huge variety of different types of wet food(and some dry food), with different proteins and flavors and from different companies and he's doing great and has a lot of energy. The vet won't have any authority to control his diet with him doing so well. If she insists I feed a special diet I will refuse and if she points out his medical record I will tell her that she doesn't live with Spotty like I do and has no idea how well he's doing on many varieties of wet food. Hopefully she'll understand.


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## brutis and miep

It is nice to hear from people who do research


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## brutis and miep

I wish some vets would do the research you have. I used to work for a pet supplies store and people would ask about cats with urinary tract infection and kidney problems all the time. It was nearly impossable to convince them to feed a canned diet. They always said "but my vet said that dry food was bad for their teeth." Great, choose your cat's teeth over its kidneys! They'd always pick up Purina One Uninary Tract Health and then wonder why their cat never got any better.


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## brutis and miep

Opps, never mind. How do you erase a message thats accidentally submitted twice.


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## gizmocat

I have tried canned Wellness, Felidae, Innova, Merrick's and one cheap fish wet food.
The cat won't eat anything but the cheap fish wet food. She won't eat the others even when she is hungry.
Dry food: she eats only California Natural Chicken and Rice. And yes, she drinks a lot of water.
Since she picks at the food throughout the day I'm not getting raw diet for her; it will simply go off.
Some cats just won't eat canned food, 'period'. My girl is one of those.
I'd like to do what is best for her but haven't the time or the money to buy every cat food brand on Earth and offer it to her. So this is making the best of a not-so-good situation. The cal natural is not making her fat and she appears to be thriving on it. And her teeth are much better than when I first got her, though she'll still need a cleaning.


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## gizmocat

*wet rabbit*

update: Gizmo was put on a rabbit-only diet for her allergies.
She loves it and even eats the wet food--but only very small amounts. She is a small cat. But this is a major change for her, and for the better.
I put out some dry for her too since she likes the mix.


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## jab

One of the podcasts I listen to talked about how canned food (with it's higher water content) is great for treating and eliminating FLUTD. Here's the link:
http://www.tacomacat.com/podcast.html episode 'Elmer needs to go.'


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## coaster

The CatAge website is an affiliate of RealAge, which is a company with something to sell, and it's sponsored by mainline pharmaceutical and food companies: -RealAge sponsors- so take it with a grain of salt, remembering that they're presenting just one side of the issue -- their side. If everyone fed their pets a raw diet, their sponsors wouldn't sell product.

This is a good example of backgrounding your internet references to find out what their bias might be.


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## wkdwhite

Can i add to this please?

I had a cat who was only ever fed dry food, he was a male cat and one day he looked really ill we thought he had been poisoned as the symptons were simular, we rushed him to the vets, and they did all they could for him, he died the next morning.
What happened shocked me.
The dry food had caused a build up of crystals in his urainy tract this had created a blockage, the urine built up and then travel back into his kidneys causing major organ failure, the vets did everything they could but he couldnt recover.

the thing that gets me the most was i was responsable for his death, I allways fed the cats dry food, so I could fill all the dishes twice a day and let them eat as they wanted, plus with having all the cats to feed (toby had started life as a feral) it worked out cheaper for us to feed the dry food.

I have been told by the vet it is most common in male cats, I have only got female cats now but allways feed mainly wet food just to be sure.


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## AddFran

Here's another link I found. 

http://www.catinfo.org/#We_Are_Feeding_ ... bohydrates


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## BoscosMum

Oh Yeah!!!
That is the very same link I have re-read many many times now.
I went to the pet supply today and purchased 
Nature's Variety frozen raw....
Nature's Variety canned.

I also plan on ordering some Wysong Au Jus canned meats.
I have to find that online though.

I pick up my cat tomorrow.....sure hope he likes this because
I threw the kibble out the door!


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## AddFran

The natures variety raw is great. Did you get the medalians?


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## BoscosMum

Yes I did....Organic Chicken medallions. the 1# bag cost $4.99
It has approx. 16 medallions...a 10 pound cat needs to eat 4 medallions
per day.
If this is really going to work and be a success...let me say I am praying it will be...the cost is $1.25 per day to feed this raw diet.
That is not any more expense than feeding a mid-quality canned.
The Nature's Variety canned is actually more expensive.
a 5.5 oz can was $1.69...recommended feed guide is 1 can per 6-8 lb. cat. So I am really excited about this raw diet. 

Get this.....the sales gal gave me a key code to go to
the Natures Variety website and print off a coupon for a free 
bag....the next size up, 3#, valued at $10.99...
I am going to go back and pick it up on Friday.


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## AddFran

I think they have a larger bag that is 4lbs and cost around 10 bucks. That should help a little. I think that's about what I was paying!


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## coaster

Dawn -- antibiotic-free, hormone-free, grain-fed ("natural" but not quite "organic") chicken is now available in most supermarkets for $1.50 - $2.00 a pound. You need to cut it up, grind it up, and add a few things, but it's still going to be half the price of that prepared chicken. Here's the recipe I'm using:
http://www.catforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=355464#355464
and did Nature's Variety explain that raw has to be phased in very slowly?


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## OsnobunnieO

I'm STILL trying to get myself to switch to raw, and thought about purchasing some of the premade stuff just to get myself started. Addison would be fine as far as money, but it'd end up costing me like $100-150 a month to feed Brody!!

I did actually buy a bag of the freeze dried Nature's Variety. Addison won't eat it :roll: I'll still offer some every now and then, but when he doesn't eat it, Brody gets it as a treat.


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## specialname

ok so how much should a kitten eat? if i am to feed her mostly can, how much can to dry ?


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## etchtglass

I've a question... 
First of all, from my knowledge, fish isn't very good for cats and they should be given mostly non-fish meats (chicken, turkey, etc). Is this actually true?

Second of all, 
my turkish van, Lemmy, hates wet food. I know it's better for him, but the only time he ate it was when the store ran out of dry food for a week and there was nothing but wet food... and even then, he barely ate any. If given dry food, he won't touch the wet food, and if he has no dry food, he'll whine, even with wet food....
Should I just give up and continue the dry food?


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## moggiegirl

etchtglass said:


> I've a question...
> First of all, from my knowledge, fish isn't very good for cats and they should be given mostly non-fish meats (chicken, turkey, etc). Is this actually true?
> 
> Second of all,
> my turkish van, Lemmy, hates wet food. I know it's better for him, but the only time he ate it was when the store ran out of dry food for a week and there was nothing but wet food... and even then, he barely ate any. If given dry food, he won't touch the wet food, and if he has no dry food, he'll whine, even with wet food....
> Should I just give up and continue the dry food?


I think the most important thing is for cats to eat a balanced diet, even just chicken or turkey without supplementing vitamins and minerals would not be good for a cat. But fish is known to be not so good for cats but it can't hurt as an occasional treat or mixed with other ingredients that are nutritious. I think it's definitely wise to alternate those fish food flavors with flavors that don't contain any fish, such as chicken, turkey, duck, rabbit, venizon, or whatever. 

A very wise breeder once told me at a cat show, "The best cat food is useless if the cat won't eat it." Encourage your cat to eat canned food but do not be so determined that you would even let your cat go without food for a couple of days. This is dangerous, as cats can get ill from going for long stretches of time without food. 3 days, a vet once told me can push a cat into fatty liver disease. If your cat refuses to eat wet food, then feed the dry stuff. It may not be an optimum diet but millions of cats have lived out their lives on dry food, many even on only dry food because they refuse wet food in spite of their owners attempts(but don't give up trying, you never know, they might eat it). I know I can't give up the dry stuff. It supplements my cats canned food and ensures they're eating enough. And for wet food try different flavors and varieties and to avoid wasting too much food start by feeding small quantities and gradually increase it, if your cat only eats fish flavored wet food balance it with a dry food that doesn't have any fish and choose cans that also contain other ingredients. 

I've got my cats trained to eat at least some wet food. In the morning I split a 3 ounce can of wet food among 2 cats and do the same thing again at night. Sometimes they finish it, sometimes they don't. The dry food fills in the nutritional gap between meals. I find that on weekend mornings my cats eat more wet food than when I'm getting ready for work during the week because I get up at 6 am put down the wet food and go back to bed and sleep until 10 am. During these 4 hours my cats have nothing to eat but wet food and if you add to the fact that I don't free feed dry food but only put out a limited amount and the cats don't have a whole lot to eat during the night when I'm sleeping the cats are hungry and guess what, they eat the wet stuff. Note that I did not starve my cats into it. I've never allowed my cats to go a day without eating some food. And by 10:00 or 11 am I give them a small portion of dry food. So here's something you might try when you still need your sleep on a Saturday morning. Too bad I can't do this on a week day. I've got to go to work and I can't just leave the wet food out all day and not put any dry in their bowls. They'd go hungry.


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## hypertweeky

When Tiger blocked and was rushed to the nearest animal hospital, he did get treated, the place has a fame for being an excellent animal hospital, it is also an specialty center, the thing is that they did get Tiger back to normal however their lack of information as to how to prevent it from happening was ridiculous, the vet made it look like it can happen again and there nothing you can do, she said that Kitties come into her clinic every day because of blockage, sure enough there were 3 more cats in there with the same problem. THIS FREAKED ME OUT, as I thought there was no solution for it.
I did a lot of research, didn't sleep for nights surfing the net, until I finally came accross Dr. Pierson's website who SAVED my life.
I've learned the basis of nutrition, and what to do to keep Tiger healthy, canned food is the best thing that ever happened to us in combination with cosequin and colostrum.
My current vet encourages cat owners to feed a canned food diet, even raw!. 
What I am trying to say is that while the specialty center did the "technical" work to help Tiger, they provided no info whatsoever about how to prevent it and told me that he should have surgery, I was like no way! he has only blocked once, why put him through such an invasive procedure, no way in heck.

There goes my .50 cents..


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## Kittys Mom

Mvjnz said:


> In the wild cats would get a combination of soft and hard food. Soft meat and hard crunchy bones from the animals they kill.


Which is why an all raw diet is best.


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## Sol

Mvjnz said:


> Saying that cats should be fed only canned food or only dry food is like saying that humans should only ever eat soup or only ever eat hard, crunchy, chewy food.
> 
> In the wild cats would get a combination of soft and hard food. Soft meat and hard crunchy bones from the animals they kill.
> 
> Try only eating soup for a year and see what it does to your teeth and jaw muscles.
> 
> Our cats have dry food out all day which they can eat whenever they feel like it, and they get one meal of canned food every evening.


There are several differences between dryfood and bones. They can't be compared. The crunch in dryfood can't be compared to bones. Bones are solid and need a lot of strenght and work to be broken. Dryfood break at basically no pressure at all so dryfood, when broken (many cats just swallow the kibble whole), doesn't really give much "polish effect" at all on the teeth.

Second... dryfood is stuffed with carbs, bones aren't so nutrionally they are completely different.

If you want the "bone polishing effect", dryfood won't do it. Only bones wll give that. I've seen the huge effect bones have had on my cats teeth. They used to eat dryfood only (dryfood that were supposed to prevent tartar), I had to brush their teeth to keep the tartar away. After the switch to raw food and feeding them bones I don't need to brush any teeth and the vets tell me all the time how nice looking teeth they have.


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## Jut

coaster said:


> The CatAge website is an affiliate of RealAge, which is a company with something to sell, and it's sponsored by mainline pharmaceutical and food companies: -RealAge sponsors- so take it with a grain of salt, remembering that they're presenting just one side of the issue -- their side. If everyone fed their pets a raw diet, their sponsors wouldn't sell product.
> 
> This is a good example of backgrounding your internet references to find out what their bias might be.


This man raises a good point, the only person who has in this thread. 

As someone working in science, and as a hobby investigating frauds/quackery in science, as a basic rule I would not trust an article that mentions "research" without referencing the actual paper so I can check out that research for myself.
I've seen the bandwagon effect too many times when researching "nutrition" quacks such as Gillian McKeith and Patrick Holford. All it takes is for one person to say "omega 3 fish oil makes you study better" for the media to get hold of it and write dozens of articles all saying the same thing, based on nothing more than hearsay, which eventually becomes common "fact" in the general population.
If there is research that shows a wet food diet is healthier than a dry food diet then show me the paper, published in a peer reviewed journal.

P.S. For those who may be confused, there is NO research to suggest omega 3 fish oil will help you study or cure ADHA....


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## melysion

Here is an peer reviewed paper for you which might be interesting.

http://www.catinfo.org/zorans_article.pdf


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## Silver deer

This is a very interesting and valuable thread! Thanks for making it a sticky.


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## Jeanie

melysion said:


> Here is an peer reviewed paper for you which might be interesting.
> 
> http://www.catinfo.org/zorans_article.pdf


I hope that our members take the time to read, or at least scan, this academic paper. It not only reinforces the need for wet/canned food, it also emphasizes the complexities of producing a complete food for cats.


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## Angeladeedah

My cats were on a mixed diet but then they completely went off wet food - no matter what kind I bought. At the end of last year one of the boys was really unwell for a few months with FLUTD - so they vet advised me to try to get them to eat wet food. This has been really difficult as they won't even eat chicken etc as I used to use meat to wrap tablets up in and he caught on to what I was doing. I can now get them to eat one certain brand but your lucky if they eat half a pouch each. I thought all cats would jump at the chance for wet food.!


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## TheComputerGremlin

I am a chemist that deals with reading journal articles daily, seriously, that's part of my job.

In response to those touting the journal article as scientific:

1) I agree that the JAVMA is peer-reviewed, cites numerous references, and is written by a doctor. It is, for all good reasons, scientific.

However:

1) JAVMA has a lower than average impact factor, which is the determination of how relevant the material is towards science. In 2005, it's impact factor was 1.266, with the average journal being 1.755. For other examples, journals such as Science and Nature have impact factors of 30.93 and 29.27 respectively. The lower the impact factor, the less likely the research will be used by other scientists.

2) For what I've seen on this board so far, everyone says not to trust vets when it comes to food. Yet apparently we are supposed to trust a veterinary journal?

3) This person states no grants or funding, which means that nothing in this article is actual research. It is THEIR opinion.

4) Also on that note, this was a featured article, not a research article. In science, things of this nature are heavily biased towards the writer's viewpoint.

5) This article is now going on 6 years old, which is practically a dinosaur in science.

I'm not arguing for an all-dry diet, I don't feed my own cats one. I, however, am skeptical of pushing science such as this on people. All of the information contained in the article could be found if people did their own research on such things.


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## Jeanie

> ......All of the information contained in the article could be found if people did their own research on such things.


That's true, but will they do the research? I was free feeding my cats dry food, and changed to canned food because Dr. Jean Holve, a veteranarian who specializes in the care of cats, is a member, and she recommends canned foods and gave us detailed reasons for this opinion.

As an English teacher, I am quite certain that a graduate student's research paper would have to list the works cited. I doubt the paper would be accepted otherwise. Essays do not require a "bibliography," but must take the audience into consideration. The audience in this case was made up of the author's peers. 

This forum is only one source of information, and most of the members cite their references. Many either sympathize or relate their own experiences, and recommend a vet visit. There is a disclaimer at the top of this forum. We are not experts, and make no such claims. 

The disclaimer reads:



> Any advice given here is not intended to replace a visit to your veterinarian. The advice given is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only, and any advice given should be viewed as just that, and not a proper diagnosis. If you suspect that your cat is ill please schedule an appointment with a veterinarian right away.
> 
> (Written by Jessica, thank you)


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## TheComputerGremlin

Contrary to my vet's advise, I feed a combo wet/dry diet. My vet wants them solely on dry Science Diet. I watched my mom's cat's weight balloon out of control on this diet. (My mom and I have the same vet.) But the humane society told us when we got them as kittens to feed them wet food to help them grow better, and we just couldn't bring ourselves to stop the wet food. Once I forgot to buy more wet food when we ran out and they were out for 3 days. I had to watch my poor kitty's face as she tried to potty; she looked like she was in so much pain. So, they get 1 cup of dry food between them during the day from an automatic feeder and 1/6 of a can each of wet food at dinner time. My one cat is in excellent health; my other is a bit overweight. But we can't control her food intake, she's food obsessed, and more agile than the other and smaller. So we can even hide the food from her.


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## Jeanie

If I were you, I'd reverse the amounts. Feed more canned and less dry. I give my cats a bit of dry food just before I go to bed. I know it's not necessary for clean teeth, but they think it's a great treat! (and they get to crunch something.  )


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## orchyboy

one thing that I read that pushed a button... 



http://www.felinefuture.com/nutrition/bpo_ch4.php said:


> Once ingested, the commercial dry food will absorb moisture like a sponge from the cat's stomach, causing the cat to dehydrate from within


which dry food are they talking about? all dry food? dry food is hypotonic? and dry food stools are soft-watery?

inadequate water supply I can understand... sucking water out, correct me if I am wrong but wouldnt this mean watery stools? Do they mean diarrhetic effect? 

mmm... I seem some overly obsessed people...

Altho come to think of it my family cat is 19 (almost) and she has had a mostly canned food diet... probably 80% whiskers... low-mid range brand... 
Cheap supermarket canned food, with dry food on the side...


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## talullah

Aaaack! This is so complicated! I feel like a bad parent.


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## chris10

talullah said:


> Aaaack! This is so complicated! I feel like a bad parent.


Just remember two things. Less carbohydrates and more water in their diet.


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## talullah

Gotcha!! I'm feeling better today! LOL! Sorry I was a drama queen there!

Love your kitty photo. So pretty!


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## talullah

There was an article this morning on one of the news sites and the headline was "Two Year Old Survives On Cat Food After Mom Dies". While I know this is a HORRIBLE subject, my immediate thought was - *was it wet or dry?* 8O 

The article was heart wrenching, but that was the first thing that came to mind!!


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## Katmann

*Thin as a rail rescued Maine Coons nutrional diet*

A week ago we adopted a Rescued Maine **** that was very thin and
very rough around the edges. The neuter was done when the cat was
very thin along with a Tape worm shot and tests, all were very taxing on
this fragile 10 month old. It has taken 6 days for the cat to even start to recover from the ordeal. 

"Soupy" as we have renamed the cat only started to recover when we began feeding it Wet meat food that we added a very small amount of warm water to making a thick soup. The recovery has been miraculous and Soupy is much more active and friendly, and should start to fill out soon. He does rarely eat a very small amount of dry Iames Kitten food also. Thanks to the net for the grrrrreat idea of making a thick soup out of Fancy Fiest!


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## Frenchy

I just got a new kitten and feed a small amount of wet food twice a day (morning & eveing.) And she also self feeds on dry food through out the day. 

I still use dry food because I have another cat that, for the life of me, cannot get her to eat moist food. I've tried different brands, thinking she doesn't like the one I bought, I've tried mixing it into her dry food - nothing. She only likes dry food.

While I was growing up we had a cat that we only fed wet food to - no dry food at all. She was never overweight, always had a nice shiny healthy coat, and lived a long time.


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## jatango

I am well aware of all the health benefits of feeding wet food over dry. My problem lies with my cats' behavior when on wet only. They become food maniacs! I can't keep them off the counters, I've tried everything but an ultrasonic emitter. They fly at your food bowl when you're eating, raid the trash, etc. Their weight looks perfect though. <sigh> 

I caved today and let them eat as much dry as they wanted in a sitting. This has calmed the beasts and allowed them to refocus. Hopefully now we can start training while they are managing their own food intake and cut back later. Ferrous and Waffles are 6 months and 5 months, respectively. Anyone have any solutions or suggestions for this? I've done everything from lining my counters with double-stick tape, to squirt bottles, to whole glasses of water in desperation. I just ended up with very soggy cats eating my dinner.


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## HeSaveDave

I had no idea wet food was better than dry. Our cats have been on dry for years. I hope they like the change.


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## pebs

*Re:*



Frenchy said:


> I still use dry food because I have another cat that, for the life of me, cannot get her to eat moist food. I've tried different brands, thinking she doesn't like the one I bought, I've tried mixing it into her dry food - nothing. She only likes dry food.


Mine's exactly the same - she loves the smell of the gravy/sauce on wet food and will gladly lick it off the meaty bits, but she won't eat the meaty bits ... so I end up just feeding her dried food so that gets something!


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## my5kitties

*Re: Re:*



pebs said:


> Frenchy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I still use dry food because I have another cat that, for the life of me, cannot get her to eat moist food. I've tried different brands, thinking she doesn't like the one I bought, I've tried mixing it into her dry food - nothing. She only likes dry food.
> 
> 
> 
> Mine's exactly the same - she loves the smell of the gravy/sauce on wet food and will gladly lick it off the meaty bits, but she won't eat the meaty bits ... so I end up just feeding her dried food so that gets something!
Click to expand...

My three used to do that with the wet food...until we realized that wet food comes in different types. There's the kind that you mentioned and then there's the paté style, which my cats *LOVE*. Paté style is pretty much puréed food.


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## pebs

I'll have to look out for the paté :catmilk


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## ~Siameseifuplz~

> My problem lies with my cats' behavior when on wet only. They become food maniacs!


That's how my cats are about dry, I can't get them to like the wet food! Neko goes nuts for dry and as soon as he realizes he's getting wet he walks away like he was not hungry and SCREAMING/pawing/biting me for food 2 minutes ago.

Why do yours go on the counters for wet food? have they accidentally gotten some on the counters? Do they only do this while you are preparing it? i prepare mine on the dresser in my room which they are allowed to jump all over. if yours jump on the counter during food prep i would pick up bowl and can and walk away, wait for the cat to realize there is no food and return, it may take a while but eventually the cat will figure out he can't get anything.


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## petspy

I just wanted to _thank_ :jump everyone who goaded me into
feeding my cats more wet/raw food - for basically ruining my life.

My cats were perfect - nice and quite, never bothered me or begged for food.

Then this past week, I've been giving them a small raw chicken dinner each
night, in order to trick them into eating Lysine powder and other supplements,
_a practice I'm prepared to continue for the rest of their lives._

Now every time I go into my kitchen and just rattle a few dishes,
they both come running, and meow at me - wondering what's up.
this is especially annoying on weekends when I do kitchen chores.

just forget about preparing raw meat around them - they climb the walls! 
so now I have to lock them in their cat room every time I'm butchering.

so thanks again everyone :thumb for having me take two mild mannered cats,
who didn't know any better, and turn them into raw meat craving lunatics,
_who thankfully still eat their dry kibble the rest of the day._

just one piece of advice to newbies considering starting your cats on raw;
never ever give them ANY cooked meat. my cats are able to distinguish
between the raw meat I give them, and the cooked meat I eat myself, so 
they don't bother me _yet_ while I'm eating my own dinner time meat meals.
If you think cooking the meat a bit is safer for your cat, don't kid yourself.
It's far safer to freeze the meat for 3 or more days, then defrost and serve.


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## Kendalyn

There seems to be a general consensus that cats won't have issues with crystals and UTIs on wet food. You are not safe because you are feeding canned. My own cat became blocked multiple times on different brands and formulas of canned non-prescription food. If you have a cat prone to crystals, make sure you are still on the lookout for symptoms of becoming blocked no matter what food he is eating. My 9 year old cat can now ONLY eat Science Diet s/d (canned or dry but he gets canned) otherwise the crystals come back very quickly.


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## battlet3chvx

I try to keep both my cats on a holistic diet, but they can't resist the occasional cookie treat. I give them a can of wet food in the morning and night and leave out dry food throughout the day.

For wet food I give them a can of AvoDerm select cuts. These are small 3 oz cans, but they're enough for my 2 cats. They come in three flavors, so find out which one your cat likes. They're about $0.70 ea and you can buy them at PetSmart.

For dry food I feed them Chicken Soup For The Cat lovers Soul. They love this dry food almost as much as their wet food. You can check where they sell it here.

Enjoy


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## chris10

Kendalyn said:


> There seems to be a general consensus that cats won't have issues with crystals and UTIs on wet food. You are not safe because you are feeding canned. My own cat became blocked multiple times on different brands and formulas of canned non-prescription food. If you have a cat prone to crystals, make sure you are still on the lookout for symptoms of becoming blocked no matter what food he is eating. My 9 year old cat can now ONLY eat Science Diet s/d (canned or dry but he gets canned) otherwise the crystals come back very quickly.


I am pretty sure the general consensus is that cats who take in a high amount of moisture will produce unfavorable conditions for crystals to form. Three conditions must exist in order for crystals to form. They are Ph is out of range, low volume of urine which leads to a high concentration of minerals in the urine. Water usually dilutes the minerals. But anything can happen.

UTI's are mostly a immune system problem.


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## ladylilith

Before reading this thread I had no idea that dry food produces more solid waste than canned food. Now I know why my kitten (who eats mostly dry food) poops so much more than my adult cat (who eats almost exclusively wet).

My kitten poops/pees A LOT. :?


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## nedsports

Through my research cheap wet brands including Science Diet are not good for the cats at all. Lets check out the ingredients of Science Diet:

Adult Optimal Care™ Gourmet Beef Entrée Minced

Ingredients

Water, Beef, Beef By-Product, Pork By-Products, Pork Liver, Wheat Flour, Corn Starch, Rice Flour, Powdered Cellulose, Chicken Liver Flavor, Soybean Oil, Corn Gluten Meal, Calcium Sulfate, Guar Gum, Locust Bean Gum, Carrageenan, Brewers Dried Yeast, Dicalcium Phosphate, Iron Oxide, Calcium Carbonate, Choline Chloride, DL-Methionine, Taurine, Iodized Salt, L-Lysine, Potassium Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Zinc Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Niacin, Manganous Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Biotin, Calcium Iodate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Sodium Selenite. 

Anything that says "By-Products" can be animals that died and is unfit for human consumption, it could also mean ground up feet, feathers, etc. Another flag is "Chicken Liver Flavor", ok?? This is also loaded with Gluten and loaded with carbs. This premium can is not much different than dry food. I was feeding Science Diet to my cats and my overweight cat got fatter and had bloody diarrhea from this so called "premo food".

Now check out this wet foot that's at Petco for just a little more per can than the Science Diet.

Natural Balance Limited Ingredient Diets Duck & Green Pea Formula Canned Cat Food

Duck, Duck Broth, Duck Liver, Pea Flour, Duck Meal, Pea Protein, Salmon Oil, Dicalcium Phosphate, Guar Gum, Potasium Chloride, Taurine, Sodium Chloride, Flaxseed, Dried Cranberries, Yucca Schidigera, Carrageenan, Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Niacin Supplement, Sodium Selenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Calcium Pantothenate, Calcium Iodate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Vitamin A Supplement, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement

This food isn't perfect but for the most bang for youre buck this is it. I don't like Broth or Meal but its much better for them than the notorious By-Product. This is also 100% Gluten free and almost all protien. It also has Dried Cranberries and Flaxseed!


Now my cats are on a 90% wet diet, and soon will be 99% wet and 1% treats for their teeth. After a few weeks on this diet my skinny cat has 100% more energy. The cat used to jump 1/2 way to the ceiling once in a while and now he jumps over 3/4 of the way over and over again with the laser. The medium cats fur used to be almost brittle and now its really really soft. The fat cat hasn't lost any weight yet but his bloody soft stools went from twice a day to once a week to none at all. I was cleening two large litter boxes once a day and now I cleen them once every two days and they don't smell as much anymore.

I just noticed that all over the internet that people are bashing the wet food diets because they feed them Friskys and Science Diet. Anyways back to my queastion.

My fat cat is 30lbs and Ive been feeding him about a can a day of the Natural Balance and I feel like I'm starving him but when I give him more he doesn't eat it. According to the directions its one can for every 8lbs which is would be a little under four cans a day? If hes content with one can a day then it that fine for such a fat pig of a cat?


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## Seahawk7356

Thanks, really helpful information in there. 8) 
Took me a fair amount of time to read, hehe.


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## Tonka

The shelter I adopted Tonka from feeds all their cats a mix of dry and wet (laid out in two separate bowls), unless the cat requires some kind of special diet... 

I am learning the CONTENTS of the food matters greatly, too!!! I am switching from the shelter-food ("Friskies") to a "Wellness"/"Nature's Balance" brand diet for my cat, as the ingredients I've read are so much better and natural! (I swear my cat eats better than I do! )

I feed Tonka twice a day; once in the morning, and once in the evening. He's 12 lbs, it says to feed about 10-12 oz - so, two 5 oz cans of wet food. He rarely eats this much (I've tried), so I feed him slightly less and he seems to be just fine. I also put out dry kibble in the morning and leave it out while I'm at work.

My cat seems to PREFER wet food over dry food (he barely touches the kibble stuff) -- I am seriously considering switching to an all-wet diet, since I feel I'd just be wasting money on dry stuff he never eats, anyway... We'll see!


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## doodlebug

Tonka said:


> I feed Tonka twice a day; once in the morning, and once in the evening. He's 12 lbs, it says to feed about 10-12 oz - so, two 5 oz cans of wet food. He rarely eats this much (I've tried), so I feed him slightly less and he seems to be just fine. I also put out dry kibble in the morning and leave it out while I'm at work.


The cans suggest way too much food. And average adult cat (10lbs, moderately active) requires about 220-240 calories per day. A 5.5 oz can of Wellness will provide almost all those calories depending on the flavor. So one full can and a few kibbles for snack should be plenty for most cats.


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## Tonka

doodlebug said:


> Tonka said:
> 
> 
> 
> I feed Tonka twice a day; once in the morning, and once in the evening. He's 12 lbs, it says to feed about 10-12 oz - so, two 5 oz cans of wet food. He rarely eats this much (I've tried), so I feed him slightly less and he seems to be just fine. I also put out dry kibble in the morning and leave it out while I'm at work.
> 
> 
> 
> The cans suggest way too much food. And average adult cat (10lbs, moderately active) requires about 220-240 calories per day. A 5.5 oz can of Wellness will provide almost all those calories depending on the flavor. So one full can and a few kibbles for snack should be plenty for most cats.
Click to expand...

Oh thank you!!!!
I thought that seemed like a lot, he never eats that much!!!!


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## bluemilk

I've noticed canned makes for looser stools. Kibble on the other hand makes for digestive regularity.


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## kindyroot

I have never dry fed my cats and it's okay, I go instead for homemade (wet) cat food that I make myself (as in my blog), I recognise that when I brought them commercial wet food once they went crazy about it, but when I brought them back to the usual homemade diet (mostly consisting of chicken heads) it went okay.
In conclusion, I thing dry food is not necessary at all.


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## meghanhan

I really want to do an all raw/natural diet for my cat when I get one, but I have some questions. is there any particular preparation I need to be aware of? I am a vegetarian so I do not know the first thing about meat. I know dietary needs of human cats are different and cats are more resistant to things like salmonella, but I would never even want to put my cat into that risk. Is there anything I would need to know about, or could I just get some meat from a butcher, plop it down for them, and trust their natural instincts will know what to do?


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## ~Siameseifuplz~

> I really want to do an all raw/natural diet for my cat when I get one, but I have some questions. is there any particular preparation I need to be aware of? I am a vegetarian so I do not know the first thing about meat. I know dietary needs of human cats are different and cats are more resistant to things like salmonella, but I would never even want to put my cat into that risk. Is there anything I would need to know about, or could I just get some meat from a butcher, plop it down for them, and trust their natural instincts will know what to do?


check out the raw sub-forum, you are likely to get more info and replies there. But for the most part it's important that you feed meat, bones and multiple organs to your cat (80% meat, 10% bones, 5% liver and 5% other organ (heart counts as muscle not organ-over about a weeks time these percentages should happen, you don't need to feed those percentages daily) and freeze the meat for at least some time before feeding.


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## tdmom

I've read and am re-reading this thread often. Thank you so much for it and for making it a "sticky", it is very informative.


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## Bluemitted

Is it ok to mix dry and wet food at the same time?


----------



## hoofmaiden

Better not to. If you're giving any dry food, the cat is not getting sufficient water. Even if you see your cat drinking, that doesn't mean he's getting enough. In fact, I almost NEVER see my cats drink b/c they don't have to, as they're getting it from their food.

Cats fed all dry food are sub-clinically dehydrated. So if they're getting SOME dry food that's a bit better than all, but not as good as none. <shrug>

Why feed any?


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## Bluemitted

What canned foods do you recommend I feed my kitten? And how do I wean him off his food now?


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## hoofmaiden

He's just 8 weeks, right? He needs to eat 4X a day. If you're asking how to move him from having food available all the time to meal feeding, just do it. Kittens are easy to do this w/ b/c they're hungry a lot, LOL. So just offer him 4 meals of canned food a day -- as much as he'll eat in 30 min. or so. Keep an eye on his weight. If you can't come home during the day to feed him, you can get one of the timed feeders like I'm using for Jonah:

http://www.lnt.com/product/bowls-feeder ... eeder.html








I actually got the C50 b/c in the beginning I needed to feed THREE meals while I was gone. But your kitten is old enough so that he will do fine w/ 2, so you could program the 2 sides to open 4 hours apart--feed him at 7 a.m., then program the feeders to open at noon and 4 p.m., and feed him again at 8 p.m. Something like that.

As for brands . . . I feed raw, so I'm not a huge fan of any of them, but the best ones are, IMO, EVO 95% meat formulas and Wellness CORE. You want a grain-free canned food w/ mostly meat, and high-quality meat.


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## himikitty

omg im so glad i came upon this thread, its really helpful ! and i ll stop mixing the wet and dry food in the same bowl now in the future ! thanks for the advice !!


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## Alpaca

I'm thoroughly confused on this. As far as I know, kittens need more protein than adult cats. Dry food has approx 30% protein whereas the wet food has way less, I've seen like 12% or so. (Probably why on one person's vet said dry food is better than wet for her kittens.) If you feed an entirely wet diet to a kitten, how can they get enough protein?


----------



## hoofmaiden

Alpaca said:


> I'm thoroughly confused on this. As far as I know, kittens need more protein than adult cats. Dry food has approx 30% protein whereas the wet food has way less, I've seen like 12% or so. (Probably why on one person's vet said dry food is better than wet for her kittens.) If you feed an entirely wet diet to a kitten, how can they get enough protein?


(1) Kittens and cats require EXACTLY the same thing. In the wild, kittens once weaned and adults eat the same thing -- raw meat. The best thing to feed a kitten (other than raw meat) is high-quality grain-free canned food (Evo 95% meat, Wellness Core, etc).

(2) You CANNOT compare dry food to canned food nutrient/protein/ ANYTHING-wise without converting both to a dry matter analysis! Canned food contains 70% or so water, so of course it will appear to contain "less" protein. In fact, it almost always contains MORE. Here is how you do that:

*DRY MATTER ANALYSIS CONVERSION:*

(1) Look at the label of, first, the DRY food. Get the moisture content. Say that is listed as 10% -- that means it has 90% dry matter. Next, get the protein level -- say it's 30%.

Dry food: 30 (% protein) divided by 90 (% dry matter) = .33 or 33% protein on a dry matter basis.

(2) Now look at the CANNED food and DO THE SAME THING. There will be MUCH more water--using EVO 95% meat chicken and turkey ( http://www.evopet.com/products/default. ... ga&id=1662 ), which has 78% moisure (and therefore 22% dry matter) this comes out to:

Canned food: 9 (% protein) divided by 22 (% dry matter) = 41% protein.

See?  The canned food actually has 41% protein, compared to the dry food which has 33%. You are going to feed much LESS of the dry food (if for some reason you choose to feed it) b/c w/out water, it is concentrated. You feed more of the canned food.

(3) The reason the vet said that is that, alas, most vets have almost no nutritional training, and what they DO get in vet school is provided courtesy of Hills (the Science Diet people). Hills is one of the largest donors to vet schools in North America, and the author of the nutritional textbook used in most vet schools was a Hills employee. Your vet shouldn't be your go-to person for nutritional advice.


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## bluemilk

Isn't kibble better for pearly-white cat teeth?


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## furryfriends251

bluemilk said:


> Isn't kibble better for pearly-white cat teeth?


No, that is just another one of those myths made up by the pet food industry. Dry food has no good points  Raw is the thing that will clean a cats teeth, nothing else will do the same job.

Here is an article about that: http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?a ... antheteeth


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## jennyfir

Hi all. For all those like me who have seen their cat suffer with blockage caused by struvite crystals & paid lots of money to the Vet to get him sorted out - I would recommend a website "*Raw Meaty Bones*" that says we are making our cats sick by poor diet - especially dry food diet. At home (England) we are trying the suggestions now - both cats look shocked to be given a fresh chicken drumstick or thigh but are rising to the challenge & tucking in. Meat should be raw & with bone for good health - as close to nature as possible.Websites that specialize in selling reptile foods are also suggested to bring variety to the cats diet. Check these out too. Hope this is helpful.


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## NosyKitty

I came to this thread looking for a really good, but short "evils-of-dry-food" article to show to my guy, who is one of those "my cat was 17 years old, fed only the cheapest dry food and in great health" kind of people.

But most of these links are either broken, no longer exist or go to the wrong page (or very long articles he won't read).

Can anyone help me out?


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## doodlebug

Most of the articles will be pretty long, don't know if he's willing to accept something that's not from an "official" source, but here's a synopsis:

*Water*
~Cats evolved in the desert and their system is designed to get all their water from prey and they do not have a high thirst drive.
~Prey is 70% water. Dry food is 10% water.
~To make up for the missing 60% water, a cat needs to drink 1.25 cups of water for every cup of dry. Most will barely consume half of that.
~Without the water, they go through life somewhat dehydrated.
~Dehydration effects all organs, but especially the urinary system. Urine becomes very concentrated which can lead to infections and/or crystals, which can cause blockages. The lack of water effects the kidneys, possibly leading to failure.
~Dehydration is very bad for the skin causing it to be dry, itchy and scaly. It will cause lots of shedding because the skin will pull away from the hair shaft.
~Dehydration can also just make them not feel up to par. Think about it...a hangover is caused by dehydration.

*Carbs*
~A cat's prey is all protein and fat, minimal carbs (just from whatever little pre-digested grain that may be in the stomach). So they don't have a lot of the digestive enzymes needed for carbs.
~The lack of enzymes caused the carbs to not be digested properly and they turn to fat.
~Dry food basically replaces the missing water with carbs, so dry fed cats are often overweight, especially if they are free fed.
~Being overweight has the same effects on cats that it does on humans.....heart disease, diabetes etc.


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## hoofmaiden

Dry food is also implicated in the current epidemic of IBD, which not infrequently leads to lymphoma. 

More on that, as well as on diabetes and other dry-food caused and contributed-to conditions, can be found in Dr. Elizabeth Hodgkins' excellent book:

LINK: Your Cat: Simple New Secrets to a Longer, Stronger Life


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## tanyuh

Hello everyone,

I apologize, but I haven't read the rest of the thread.. I have a question that fits the topic though, so I thought I'd post it here rather than make another thread.

My question is: I am considering starting my (fat) cat Sigma on a canned food diet. I had him eating Wellness when I lived in North America, but I live in Europe (The Netherlands) now and was wondering if anyone could please suggest something equivalent I could get for him here.

Thanks for your time and sorry if I hijacked the thread 

~t


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## hoofmaiden

Look for a canned food in which meat is the main ingredient, there are as few total ingredients as possible, and there is no grain on the label.


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## tanyuh

Thanks for your reply!

I've looked in a few petstores and supermarkets for just that, but I haven't had any luck so far. Was wondering if anyone knew of a particular brand that I could order online from, or search for retailers.


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## hoofmaiden

Well, I have no idea what's available in Europe!

You could always come over to the raw side! You can get meat anywhere, after all. Come join us in the Raw Diet sub-forum and we'll help if you're interested.


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## nanook

Since a few of the links at the begining no longer work, I thought I'd add this one back in. It's a goody!
http://www.bornfreeusa.org/facts.php?p=359&more=1


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## kirstylou

Wow, very interesting!

Last time that we went to the vets, they told us we shouldnt feed our kittens canned food, as they may get gum disease, instead we should give them Hills Science Plan or similar - I'm thinking that was said to promote the food they sell there!


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## hoofmaiden

kirstylou said:


> Last time that we went to the vets, they told us we shouldnt feed our kittens canned food, as they may get gum disease, instead we should give them Hills Science Plan or similar - I'm thinking that was said to promote the food they sell there!


Ya think? LOL. Vets really know very little about nutrition unless they have gone way out of their way post vet-school to learn. Hills donates MILLIONS of $$ to vet schools annually and pretty much runs their nutritional curriculum. So vets come out not only having learnt the Hills way but with a lot of incentives (financial and otherwise) to sell their food.

Neither canned food nor dry will clean the teeth or prevent gum disease. The only way to do that is (1) feed a raw diet, including bone-in meat (never ground); (2) brush the kitty's teeth regularly; and/or (3) have dentals done by the vet under anesthesia. Commercial food will NEVER prevent dental problems no matter what anyone says.

For that reason, unless you're going to feed raw, at least feed canned. It may not clean the teeth, but it also doesn't dehydrate the cat and lead to diseases like diabetes, IBD, kidney disease, urinary tract problems, etc.


----------



## kirstylou

hoofmaiden said:


> kirstylou said:
> 
> 
> 
> Last time that we went to the vets, they told us we shouldnt feed our kittens canned food, as they may get gum disease, instead we should give them Hills Science Plan or similar - I'm thinking that was said to promote the food they sell there!
> 
> 
> 
> Ya think? LOL. Vets really know very little about nutrition unless they have gone way out of their way post vet-school to learn. Hills donates MILLIONS of $$ to vet schools annually and pretty much runs their nutritional curriculum. So vets come out not only having learnt the Hills way but with a lot of incentives (financial and otherwise) to sell their food.
> 
> Neither canned food nor dry will clean the teeth or prevent gum disease. The only way to do that is (1) feed a raw diet, including bone-in meat (never ground); (2) brush the kitty's teeth regularly; and/or (3) have dentals done by the vet under anesthesia. Commercial food will NEVER prevent dental problems no matter what anyone says.
> 
> For that reason, unless you're going to feed raw, at least feed canned. It may not clean the teeth, but it also doesn't dehydrate the cat and lead to diseases like diabetes, IBD, kidney disease, urinary tract problems, etc.
Click to expand...

Hey, thanks!  Didn't know about the Hills thing and vet schools, explains why its so expensive haha!


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## dan138zig

So is it true that the best dry food is inferior to the worst canned food? 8O


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## hoofmaiden

dan138zig said:


> So is it true that the best dry food is inferior to the worst canned food? 8O


Pretty much. That doesn't mean that it's a good idea to feed the worst canned food. Usually it's actually more expensive PER OZ than the good stuff, esp. if you shop around (the good stuff comes in larger cans and the cheaper stuff tends to come in tiny cans). But moisture in the food really is THAT important.


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## lv2ski

Has anyone heard of Pet Promise? _(Am I allowed to post a link to their website?)_

On the cans it says:
*NO*
Animal By Products
Rendered Meat or Chicken Meals
Factory Farm Meat or Chicken
Antibiotic-fed Protein Sources 
Added Growth Hormones
Artificial Colors, Flavors, Preservatives 

First few ingredients are: Chicken (depending on flavor), chicken broth, tuna, brown rice, chicken liver, potato protein, carrots, potatoes. 

Any thoughts?


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## hoofmaiden

lv2ski said:


> First few ingredients are: Chicken (depending on flavor), chicken broth, tuna, brown rice, chicken liver, potato protein, carrots, potatoes.


That's a LOT of carbs, esp. for a canned food. Cats need none of the items in red and they can contribute to a lot of problems. It's also usually best to avoid foods w/ too much fish in them. That's not a food I would feed.


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## Jeanie

We used to have a resident vet, Dr. Jean Holve, whose specialty was cats. She told us that the worst canned is better than the best dry food. Many of us switched to canned food because of her advice.  

http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?a ... cannedfood


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## lv2ski

hoofmaiden said:


> lv2ski said:
> 
> 
> 
> First few ingredients are: Chicken (depending on flavor), chicken broth, tuna, brown rice, chicken liver, potato protein, carrots, potatoes.
> 
> 
> 
> That's a LOT of carbs, esp. for a canned food. Cats need none of the items in red and they can contribute to a lot of problems. It's also usually best to avoid foods w/ too much fish in them. That's not a food I would feed.
Click to expand...

Good point. TY



Jeanie said:


> http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?a ... cannedfood


EXCELLENT article! TY

ETA: I see great articles talking about the dangers of dry food, and I do agree that wet food is better for the cat (ultimately a raw diet, but I'm unable to do that at this point anyway); however, I don't see a list of WET FOODS that are great for cats (brands). What's the big secret? Where's a list of wet foods that are accessible to the general public? And where can I buy these wet canned foods? TY in advance.


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## hoofmaiden

lv2ski said:


> ETA: I see great articles talking about the dangers of dry food, and I do agree that wet food is better for the cat (ultimately a raw diet, but I'm unable to do that at this point anyway); however, I don't see a list of WET FOODS that are great for cats (brands). What's the big secret? Where's a list of wet foods that are accessible to the general public? And where can I buy these wet canned foods? TY in advance.


We've discussed this ad infinitum here on this forum.  Generally, Evo 95% meat formulas and Wellness CORE are 2 good grain-free (not carb-free, but lower than most) foods.


----------



## lv2ski

hoofmaiden said:


> lv2ski said:
> 
> 
> 
> We've discussed this ad infinitum here on this forum.  Generally, Evo 95% meat formulas and Wellness CORE are 2 good grain-free (not carb-free, but lower than most) foods.
Click to expand...

I keep forgetting to look near the beginning of this thread. Such useful information re: websites. (To Mods: A few sites are not "found" not sure if this is of any importance to you.)

Love this site! :luv


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## Jeanie

Which sites are you unable to find? I'll delete them. As for threads on this forum, the wording has to be just right. The search feature is quite a prima donna!
________________________________________________________________________


Yes, we have discussed this subject often, but unless there are two threads on the same subject at the same time, there is nothing wrong with a new person asking a question. If it is inappropriate, the mods will handle it. Just notify us; do not handle it yourself. That is what the rules call "back seat moderating." It's not permitted. Thanks! 

This is the rule:



> c. Members are asked to not act as "back seat moderators". If members note an issue which contravenes something in this policy document they are welcome to bring it to the attention of the Cat Forum Moderators. Only do this if a Cat Forum moderator member has not replied within 6 hours. Members who consistenly "act" as moderators may be warned.


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## lv2ski

Jeanie said:


> Which sites are you unable to find? I'll delete them. As for threads on this forum, the wording has to be just right. The search feature is quite a prima donna!


[/quote]

Found on page one:
http://rocquoone.com/diet_and_health.htm
http://www.felinefuture.com/nutrition/bpo_ch4.php
http://www.felinecrf.org/diet_and_nutri ... v_wet_food
http://www.fabcats.org/flutd.html
http://www.neighborhoodcats.org/info/nutrition.htm
http://www.bornfreeusa.org/689.htm


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## hoofmaiden

No one was "backseat moderating." I was suggesting that a search would probably be more efficient, b/c it seemed unlikely that too many folks would post info they have posted many times before. :?


----------



## edkate

I am feeding our cats Wellness wet food and some Homestyle's by Prairie....

Does anybody have any updates on websites that keep an eye on food recalls?

What do you guys think of the food i feed the kitties?

The youngest cat would NOT even touch dry food, but the oldest (2.5 y.o) would eat it non-stop if i didnt put it away when we come home from cottage....


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## brimingus

Thank goodness for this topic. My mom is telling me all the time that canned food is really hard on a cat's kidneys. My cat, Fluffy, who is fourteen has had mostly a dry food diet all his life. I give him wet, canned food though for a good treat. And she's always telling me it's really bad for him.

Is it, though? It sounds like it might be better for him....?


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## Hypurrrrr

Great thread! And this is a really fantastic summary:



OsnobunnieO said:


> I think feeding a mix is just fine.
> 
> To sum up what I believe to be true about the two:
> 
> Feeding ONLY dry food tends to leave many cats slightly dehydrated because they rely on food to get their moisture, most cats don't drink enough water on their own. This can put some stress on their internal organs, like kidneys. Also, it can lead to a more concentrated urine and possible UTIs and maybe even blockages in male cats (females too, but less common).
> 
> Most dry foods contain a high amount of carbs and other fillers that cats don't really need. They are carnivores who do best when they eat meat, or mostly meat meals. A lot of lower ended dry foods contain little meat at all (some you really have to search to find it!).
> 
> A lot of cats tend to overeat when free fed dry. This leads to a lot of weight issues, as well as a "need" for food all the time... you can read lots of stories about cats who stress out and scratch, pee, and poop all over the house at the sight of an empty bowl.
> 
> Wet foods provides moisture. It hydrates them, and keeps the urine a good concentration to provide a healthy urinary tract. It usually keeps them fuller longer since they get more nutrition from the food and are not just "filled" with grains and such. It also tends to keep cats a healthier weight and has been helpful for many people in getting their cats to lose weight.
> 
> I personally feed an all wet diet now and have been very pleased. While I tend to scoop about 3-4 clumps of urine every day, I usually get a small amount of poo once a day. His coat is beautiful and soft, and he just seems all around healthy.
> 
> I think you'll do fine on the combo you're starting. Natural Balance is one of the high end dry foods, good choice! Basically, the best diet for your cat is going to be one that he does the best on. If he refuses to eat canned food (some do!) feeding him the best dry you can find is just as good... I mean, it can't be good for him if he doesn't eat it right?


I used to feed my cat wet food but he lost interest in it. At first, he'd lick the gravy off and then come back later to eat the meaty bits. As time went by, I noticed there were days where he didn't eat it at all and seemed satisfied with just dry food. So I just stopped buying the wet food. However, since reading through this entire thread, I will certainly give the wet food another go.

I always have a bowl of water and dry food available for my cat and he eats only when he's hungry. He weighs what he should and has had no health problems. Once in a while, as a treat, I buy him a can of tuna (in water) or some shaved turkey from the deli. I have yet to research this forum to see if these treats are OK to give a cat, so if anyone has an opinion or advice about the occasional tuna/turkey treat, I'd love to hear what you have to say.


----------



## Susan

I see nothing wrong with tuna/turkey as occasional treats. Neither is harmful and, if only fed upon occasion, neither will interfere with his normal feeding. Tuna and turkey are likely no worse (indeed, better) than Pounce, Temptations, etc. As for transitioning him from dry to wet, that’s an excellent idea. But, for some cats, it can be a difficult task. I’m currently in the process of transitioning my two. One cat was relatively easy. The other is stubborn, stubborn, stubborn – but we’re slowly making progress. Here’s another excellent article (although lengthy) on dry vs. wet, which addresses many of the points you found helpful in the summary post you quoted. It also includes tips for transitioning cats from dry to wet, many of which I’m using with success. 

Feeding Your Cat: Know The Basis of Feline Nutrition

I don’t know if this article was earlier referred to in this thread, since I’m afraid I haven’t had the time to go through all of the posts! 

Finally, when I feed my girls wet food comprised of chunks with gravy, they too tend to lap up the gravy and ignore the meat. They also hate pate-style wet food. So, I’m now using Weruva, which is neither pate nor chunks with gravy, but a bit of a compromise between the two. It’s also grain-free. So far, so good. 

Good luck!


----------



## Hypurrrrr

Thank you for the advice and for the link! It's funny that you mentioned "Pounce" and "Temptations" because I just posted about them on the "kitty treat" thread.



Susan said:


> As for transitioning him from dry to wet, that’s an excellent idea.


I can't remember if I mentioned it in my post, but my plan was to do a combo of the two: to continue having a bowl of "Hairball Control" dry food avaliable at all times (as it is now) AND re-introducing wet food once a day.


----------



## annepanee

I can't believe I've never heard about the wet/dry food debate. My cats are on dry only because of my feral. If I didn't leave the dry food out, she would never eat. 

My cats are on a dry food called EVO. I had done a lot of research on dry foods and this one kept coming up as really good and very close to a cats natural diet. 

After reading this sticky and the links, I'm going to look into feeding the cats a combo.


----------



## coonconnoisseur

I'm inclined to agree with the content of the OP that says cats get too dehydrated without wet food.

However, I wonder if enough consideration is given to the drawback of wet food, namely dental problems.

Today I brought this issue to my vet who I saw for the first time with my new kitten. 

I asked him if I should feed wet instead of dry. He said, "normally if a cat is drinking water it should be okay to feed dry." 

I then asked him, "is it not better to feed wet because it will hydrate the cat more?"

He replied, "that is true, but then they will have dental problems. They lose their teeth very easily."

Finally, I asked him if it is better to feed wet and brush a cat's teeth as well. He said "if you can do it, that is very good."

Right now, I'm not sure I can do it because I don't know if my cat will let her teeth be brushed. 

These considerations make me wonder if dry might not be better for a cat who's teeth cannot be brushed. Both options-wet and dry-seem to have health risks. It's like the old cliche of being caught between a rock and a hard place-either possible decision about this issue is bad. 

Hypothetically, if a cat loses her teeth and/or has other severe dental problems as a result of the bacteria in her mouth that got there from eating wet food, would it not have been better to have instead fed her dry food?

I'm on the fence about to feed my cat wet or dry, because I don't want her to get dehydrated from dry food, and I also don't want her teeth to fall out or her gums to get messed up from wet food.

For those who advocate wet food for cats that aren't being fed raw, how do you reconcile the dental issues that likely will arise with the decision to feed them wet food?


----------



## doodlebug

Dental issues when feeding wet are not "likely" to arise. I have a 14 year old cat, she has needed one teeth cleaning when she was 10. My 9 year old will need a cleaning shortly. Other cats that are predisposed to teeth issues will probably have them no matter what kind of food they're eating. 

Dry food doesn't do anything to help keep the teeth clean unless it's specially formulated to do so (prescription dental food) and the ingredients in those foods are less than optimal. 

Brush if you can. There are some gels out there that are supposedly having some good results although I don't know anyone who has tried them. Petzlife is one, Tropiclean is another. The reviews on both are excellent. Get a cleaning done when necessary.

I'd rather have a toothless cat with good kidneys than one with all her teeth and bad kidneys. Toothless cats can still eat wet food and live a long time. A cat with kidney disease has a limited life span.

Did you find out the cause of the inflamed gums? Is she teething?


----------



## coonconnoisseur

hoofmaiden said:


> Neither canned food nor dry will clean the teeth or prevent gum disease.


The post to which the quoted text is replying did not necessarily say that feeding dry food would clean the cat's teeth or prevent gum disease, although the quoted text carries the implication that it does, and is a response based on that implication.

Rather, the post that inspired the quoted response may well have been saying that feeding wet food will _encourage _gum disease in ways that feeding dry will not.


----------



## coonconnoisseur

doodlebug said:


> Dry food doesn't do anything to help keep the teeth clean unless it's specially formulated to do so (prescription dental food) and the ingredients in those foods are less than optimal.
> 
> Did you find out the cause of the inflamed gums? Is she teething?


Yes, she is teething according to my vet. Also, I have the contract and it says gingivitis is common in maine coons. Apparently the health guarantee doesn't cover gingivitis but does cover 4 years against HCM or other life threatening diseases, which seems very generous IMO, at lease compared to another breeder I am also dealing with who IIRC only gives a 2 year health guarantee. 

I understand dry food doesn't do anything to keep a cat's teeth clean.

However, is there not merit to the point that wet food is introducing tons of bacteria into the cat's mouth that would not be there with dry food, and therefore wet food poses more of a dental risk than dry food for that reason?


----------



## doodlebug

Why would wet food introduce more bacteria than dry? Wet food is sitting in a sealed can and not developing bacteria as it ages as it's in a vacuum. Dry food may have minute holes in the bag that allow bacteria to get in even before it's open and then once it's open it gathers bacteria like crazy.


----------



## doodlebug

Bacteria isn't mold so they have nothing to do with each other. The fats and flavorings that are used to coat the outside of kibble to make it palatable also attract and act as a petri dish for bacteria. 

Not talking extremes here. IMO, as opposed to a lot of other people, there's nothing wrong with a little kibble in the diet. My cats get 1/8 cup per day...but it's for the convenience and the fact that they like it, not because I think it does anything for their teeth. As I've told you before...the only kibbles that will do anything for the teeth are prescription diets and even those aren't very effective. Standard kibble doesn't do a thing....it doesn't have the right density and none of good quality foods use the coatings. 

The amount of protein and fat in canned food needs to be compared to kibble on a dry matter basis. Yes, there is less protein and fat in canned on a volume basis, but there's not as much of a difference as you would think if you just compare label to label. And while water is perceived to have no monetary value, it has a whole lot of health value when you understand that most 100% kibble fed cats will only drink about half the water they really need (they need to consume 1.25 cups of water for every cup of kibble eaten). BTW...when you go to the grocery store, do you shun the nice chicken breast at the meat counter because it's like 70% water? 

There's also something to be said for significantly lower carb levels in canned food.


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## paperbacknovel

*sigh*
OK, I tried feeding canned food only. WAY too expensive for three less-than-a-year-old cats, for us. I was feeding each cat around 7-8oz of Wellness canned food a day (sometimes Purina Pro Plan kitten formula, which has much better ingredients than the adult formula and is much cheaper!), and the cats were STILL hungry. They were going NUTS trying to eat our food and generally acting crazy, meowing their heads off and crying. We finally gave in and brought back the Wellness Core dry food. My husband was ready to call it quits, anyway, because we simply can't spend $25-30 a week on cat food. That's as much as OUR grocery bill! 

We've gone back to a mix. :-/


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## coonconnoisseur

doodlebug said:


> Why would wet food introduce more bacteria than dry?


Of course, I am just a layman and no expert on this issue, but my understanding of this school of thought is:

Because wet food has way more moisture in it, which leads to a cesspool of bacteria, whereas the far lower moisture content of dry food should have an accordingly far lower amount of bacteria.

Are you guys saying you've never heard of that school of thought before?

And also that that school of thought has no merit?


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## djf052

There is plenty of moisture in the atmosphere to support the growth of bacteria and mold on dry cat food, but it isn't usually going to be a problem. All the microbes in a can of cat food are killed in the canning process and nothing is left to suddenly spring to life when the can is opened. It's essentially sterile. Cat's mouths already have tons of bacteria in them so does yours. It's almost all harmless. All of the above is irrelevant.

Humans get sick when they eat spoiled food because our digestive pathway is relatively slow, so the bacteria have enough time to grow and multiply and produce enough toxic waste to make us sick. Sometimes very very sick. Cats and other obligate carnivores, on the other hand, have very fast pass through, so bacteria never have the time to produce enough toxic waste to make them sick. That's why they can and do eat rotting carrion. How great is that?

Bacteria and mold should have no bearing whatsoever in making decisions about whether or not to feed dry or wet or raw cat food, or any combination of those.


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## LucilleBluth

hoofmaiden said:


> (1) Kittens and cats require EXACTLY the same thing. In the wild, kittens once weaned and adults eat the same thing -- raw meat. The best thing to feed a kitten (other than raw meat) is high-quality grain-free canned food (Evo 95% meat, Wellness Core, etc).
> 
> (2) You CANNOT compare dry food to canned food nutrient/protein/ ANYTHING-wise without converting both to a dry matter analysis! Canned food contains 70% or so water, so of course it will appear to contain "less" protein. In fact, it almost always contains MORE. Here is how you do that:
> 
> *DRY MATTER ANALYSIS CONVERSION:*
> 
> (1) Look at the label of, first, the DRY food. Get the moisture content. Say that is listed as 10% -- that means it has 90% dry matter. Next, get the protein level -- say it's 30%.
> 
> Dry food: 30 (% protein) divided by 90 (% dry matter) = .33 or 33% protein on a dry matter basis.
> 
> (2) Now look at the CANNED food and DO THE SAME THING. There will be MUCH more water--using EVO 95% meat chicken and turkey ( http://www.evopet.com/products/default. ... ga&id=1662 ), which has 78% moisure (and therefore 22% dry matter) this comes out to:
> 
> Canned food: 9 (% protein) divided by 22 (% dry matter) = 41% protein.
> 
> See?  The canned food actually has 41% protein, compared to the dry food which has 33%. You are going to feed much LESS of the dry food (if for some reason you choose to feed it) b/c w/out water, it is concentrated. You feed more of the canned food.


Hi HoofMaiden, thank you for this very good step-by-step explanation of how to compare food!! 

Do you know if there is a net protein % that the food should be above? I am currently comparing around 20 different varieties of cat food for my kitten, and I am noticing that most are above 45% net protein when compared dry-to-dry in the way you described. However, a few fall below this mark (including, notably, EVO "95%" canned food, which clocks in at 41% net protein. I thought this was strange, since the EVO "95%" food is a popular recommendation). So, I was wondering if anyone had a recommended net protein percentage that they would stay above - 40%, 45%, 50%?

I will post my spreadsheet in a bit. Do you think I should include anything on it besides wet/dry, brand, name, flavor, crude protein %, dry matter %, net protein %, and first few ingredients? For example, is the % of fiber or fat especially important? Kcals/kg? Let me know if so, and why, and I'll include it on the spreadsheet!


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## Rinchan

Wow I am so glad I found this thread! I never knew that wet food was better for cats and believed that dry food helps cats teeth D:. I will be switching Shadow over to wet food. I will finish off his IAMS bag first.

I will try to find Wellness or Innova. 

What is the opinion on science diet?


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## furryfriends251

Rinchan said:


> Wow I am so glad I found this thread! I never knew that wet food was better for cats and believed that dry food helps cats teeth D:. I will be switching Shadow over to wet food. I will finish off his IAMS bag first.
> 
> I will try to find Wellness or Innova.
> 
> What is the opinion on science diet?


IMO, Science Diet is expensive junk. You can get a lot of better foods for the same price.

Food Products has a list of grain free wet foods. Some of them do contain rice, such as the Friskies, but it is low down on the ingrediant list. All the foods on the list are not created equal, it includes types with by-products which is not a good source of meat. However, those are the more economical choices for most people as well so they are listed.


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## Gramaray

www.catinfo.org Has some really good information on feline nutrition.


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## fusion

We just adopted a cat from the ASPCA. Their new cat materials recommend solely wet food for cats. In the past they'd recommended dry or a combination. They say wet food is lower in carbs and higher in water and protein and this is a healthier and more natural diet for cats. They say dry food, even high end dry, is really "kitty junk food" and too much can lead to problems. They even refer to Feeding Your Cat: Know the Basics of Feline Nutrition :: healthy cat diet, making cat food, litter box, cat food, cat nutrition, cat urinary tract health

Progress!


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## Two Siamese

Well I made it through all 17 pages of this thread, and I still don't know what brand of wet food to buy my babies, lol. I'm going to look into Nature's Variety frozen raw or canned, Avo Derm, Evo 95% meat, and Wellness Core.

The different posts on bacteria and mold were quite interesting. One of the subjects I teach (I teach at a culinary school, but I strictly teach the classroom, not kitchen, subjects) is ServSafe or the study of food safety. Every place in the US that sells food must have a ServSafe certified person on the premises. I have one step above that, a certification to teach ServSafe. I'm reasonably knowledgeable about keeping food safe for human consumption -- cat consumption is out of my range of knowledge; however, I wanted to comment on a few things I read.

Bacteria, Viruses, Parasites, and Fungi are all different pathogens, or disease-causing organisms. One of the posters who said mold is not a bacteria is dead-on correct. 

Yes, it's true that in order to thrive, a pathogen typically likes a water content of .85 or higher on a scale of 0.0 to 1.0, with water having a rating of 1.0. That's why you are more LIKELY to get a foodborn illness from a moist food like chicken salad than a drier food like a cracker.

That having been said, BOTH dry food and wet food can become contaminated by bacteria. Keeping food safe is highly dependent on how it's handled, not just the physical water content of it. Dry food can become contaminated; moist food can become contaminated.

Again, these are based on human consumption -- I can't speak for a feline digestive system; however, it would seem to me that the rationale behind dry vs. wet should have much more to do with how your baby thrives/grows/lives on the product than whether or not someone thinks that wet food grows more bacteria or dry food grows more bacteria. Both, if mishandled anywhere from the manufacturer to my house can be contaminated. Some bacteria are aerobic -- they thrive in the air. Some are anaerobic -- they thrive when cut off from oxygen (botulism for example). Parasites are a whole other subject.

Someone said about not leaving wet food out for more than 30 minutes. I'm curious as to what the proven time is that you can allow cat food to sit in the temperature danger zone (41 - 135, with 70-125 being the worst of the danger zone). For human consumption, you generally have up to about 4 hours before the bacteria could multiply to a number that will make you sick. Is there something published on what that time frame is for cats? A half hour seems to be overly-precautious, but again, I know how to keep human food safe, not feline food, so I'm not saying that the poster who suggested 30 minutes is wrong.

Anyway, just my 2 cents on the subject....still don't know what to buy though!


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## saitenyo

Two Siamese said:


> Well I made it through all 17 pages of this thread, and I still don't know what brand of wet food to buy my babies, lol. I'm going to look into Nature's Variety frozen raw or canned, Avo Derm, Evo 95% meat, and Wellness Core.
> 
> The different posts on bacteria and mold were quite interesting. One of the subjects I teach (I teach at a culinary school, but I strictly teach the classroom, not kitchen, subjects) is ServSafe or the study of food safety. Every place in the US that sells food must have a ServSafe certified person on the premises. I have one step above that, a certification to teach ServSafe. I'm reasonably knowledgeable about keeping food safe for human consumption -- cat consumption is out of my range of knowledge; however, I wanted to comment on a few things I read.
> 
> Bacteria, Viruses, Parasites, and Fungi are all different pathogens, or disease-causing organisms. One of the posters who said mold is not a bacteria is dead-on correct.
> 
> Yes, it's true that in order to thrive, a pathogen typically likes a water content of .85 or higher on a scale of 0.0 to 1.0, with water having a rating of 1.0. That's why you are more LIKELY to get a foodborn illness from a moist food like chicken salad than a drier food like a cracker.
> 
> That having been said, BOTH dry food and wet food can become contaminated by bacteria. Keeping food safe is highly dependent on how it's handled, not just the physical water content of it. Dry food can become contaminated; moist food can become contaminated.
> 
> Again, these are based on human consumption -- I can't speak for a feline digestive system; however, it would seem to me that the rationale behind dry vs. wet should have much more to do with how your baby thrives/grows/lives on the product than whether or not someone thinks that wet food grows more bacteria or dry food grows more bacteria. Both, if mishandled anywhere from the manufacturer to my house can be contaminated. Some bacteria are aerobic -- they thrive in the air. Some are anaerobic -- they thrive when cut off from oxygen (botulism for example). Parasites are a whole other subject.
> 
> Someone said about not leaving wet food out for more than 30 minutes. I'm curious as to what the proven time is that you can allow cat food to sit in the temperature danger zone (41 - 135, with 70-125 being the worst of the danger zone). For human consumption, you generally have up to about 4 hours before the bacteria could multiply to a number that will make you sick. Is there something published on what that time frame is for cats? A half hour seems to be overly-precautious, but again, I know how to keep human food safe, not feline food, so I'm not saying that the poster who suggested 30 minutes is wrong.
> 
> Anyway, just my 2 cents on the subject....still don't know what to buy though!


This is informative, thank you! I have no formal education in any of these things but have become so interested in nutrition and the food industry that I spend a lot of time reading about it. I always enjoy learning more.

I agree with what Minka said as well. You're going to get a lot of different opinions on which canned food is best, and that's because there are just a lot of really good options! Don't feel like you have to settle on one. My cats get 3-5 different brands on any given week. Rotation feeding has a lot of benefits, such as the cats not getting bored, avoiding nutritional problems that can be caused be always feeding the same food, and having multiple options in case of a recall or if the store just runs out of one food.


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## Bambi

Hi everyone! I'm really surprised about this canned food thing, never knew about its bennefits. Our vet has always recommeded dry food and we've never given canned food to our cats as part of a steady diet, thinking it wasn't as good. However, this really seems to make sense...

I was wondering, is there any place where I could find scientific papers or scientific articles about the bennefits of canned food?

My dad is very caring of our cat, and he's the one that buys her food. He's VERY stubborn, and he won't believe anything that isn't written on a scientific paper (he's a doctor, so that might explain it). I tried telling him about the wet diet thing, and he told me we'll be asking the vet next time we see him. The thing is, Lenore's next appointment with the vet is still a few months away. And anyways, last time I checked, our vet wasn't too keen on wet diet for cats.

Hope anybody could help me! I tried searching on Google Scholar, but couldn't find anything (not for free, at least :s).


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## SallyGracie

*Wet food and UTIs*

I like to give my babies wet grain-free food – I find it keeps away UTIs in my older cat. As long as the ingredients are top quality (I feed natural balance Platefulls) then wet food can be very beneficial.


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## Violetzephyr

fusion said:


> We just adopted a cat from the ASPCA. Their new cat materials recommend solely wet food for cats. In the past they'd recommended dry or a combination. They say wet food is lower in carbs and higher in water and protein and this is a healthier and more natural diet for cats. They say dry food, even high end dry, is really "kitty junk food" and too much can lead to problems. They even refer to Feeding Your Cat: Know the Basics of Feline Nutrition :: healthy cat diet, making cat food, litter box, cat food, cat nutrition, cat urinary tract health
> 
> Progress!


That's so awesome!


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## cinderflower

Bambi said:


> Hi everyone! I'm really surprised about this canned food thing, never knew about its bennefits. Our vet has always recommeded dry food and we've never given canned food to our cats as part of a steady diet, thinking it wasn't as good. However, this really seems to make sense...
> 
> I was wondering, is there any place where I could find scientific papers or scientific articles about the bennefits of canned food?
> 
> My dad is very caring of our cat, and he's the one that buys her food. He's VERY stubborn, and he won't believe anything that isn't written on a scientific paper (he's a doctor, so that might explain it). I tried telling him about the wet diet thing, and he told me we'll be asking the vet next time we see him. The thing is, Lenore's next appointment with the vet is still a few months away. And anyways, last time I checked, our vet wasn't too keen on wet diet for cats.
> 
> Hope anybody could help me! I tried searching on Google Scholar, but couldn't find anything (not for free, at least :s).


this site seems more lay-person friendly than scholarly, but lisa pierson dvm wrote it. if you wanted something more scientific, you could probably write and ask her. she seems very willing to get information out there:

www.catinfo.org


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## ibbica

Bambi said:


> I was wondering, is there any place where I could find scientific papers or scientific articles about the bennefits of canned food?


Dr. Pierson's site is an excellent resource  

This seems to be the study that the whole 'cats fed a dry diet don't take in as much water' thing comes from:

http://www.hillspet.com/media/_refac...actDisease.pdf

Disclaimer: yes, it was conducted at Hill's. There is unfortunately little funding and few resources or support available for systematic research into pet diets outside of pet food manufacturers 

But anyone can test this on their own cats at home! _*If_ they're already used to a varied diet and eating both wet and dry food, and aren't prone to UTIs.* Please use your best judgment!

Feed only dry food for a week, then only wet for a week, another week of dry and another week of wet (to avoid order effects). Keep careful track each day of how much they're drinking (use a weigh scale for the water bowl, in a home kitchen it'll be more accurate than trying to measure volume directly) and add that to the moisture content of the diet. If you use clumping cat litter you can try to estimate urinary output (total weight or volume of urine clumps); although you'd likely miss subtle differences, major changes should be detectable. 

Hm... I actually keep meaning to try this with ours, as I'd like to compare water intake on a _mixed_ vs. wet vs. dry diet. Anyone (with healthy cats NOT prone to UTIs) want to join me?


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## kmsmaine

I just read through every page of this thread and I am so glad it is here. I caught a glimpse of something the other day saying a wet food diet is better than a dry food diet for cats so I have been meaning to read more up on it. 

There is actually a similar discussion I read once about ferrets, raw vs. dry food, because I have a ferret and have had them longer than cats. If you think cats are picky about food, you've never met a ferret

Anyway, we recently adopted two cats and the shelter gave the cats a small amount of dry food to eat through out the day and then they got a morning meal of wet and an evening meal of wet. They did mix food brands together and fed the cats that didn't have any dietary restrictions, the mix, both dry and wet. They gave us two cans of Fancy Feast and bag of dry food with the cats, which I just fed the last of to them this morning so this evening I have to go buy food, which is why I came on here to do some research. 

So this evening I will be buying mostly good canned food and a small bag of dry. One of our cats loves wet food, but eats both. The other hasn't been very interested in the wet, though I have seen him eat some so it may be that he just didn't like what I gave him. I am all about giving them a variety of brands and flavors also, as with ferrets (sorry I keep referencing them, but I have both and they have similar needs) it is recommended to keep them from being so picky and also so that if for any reason a food is no longer available or they end up with a health issue restricting their diet, the transition to the special diet is much easier.

I can say from having a lot of family who had had or still have cats, that were all primarily dry food fed, more of them have ended up with urinary issues (male and female) than have not. 

My cats see the vet next week for the first time (we adopted them on 8/5) so I'm sure I will be asked what they are being fed. I am interested to see the response. There are vets in my area that do not sell any pet food, except for maybe prescription diets, and are a little less likely to be brand specific and make recommendations based more on actual nutrition than $$, I'm hoping this vet is one. It's literally 2 minutes from my house and I need a new vet for the ferret since we moved, also.

Thanks for all the great info and making this a sticky!


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## Pushkabounce

Hey.. just a couple of questions (they might sound stupid  )

How come wet foods don't seem to contain as much protein as dry? Like some dry is about 30% but some wets are as little as 10%?

If I were to feed dry and wet.. how much do you reduce the dry by and how much wet do you give? My cat is over weight and the vet says he does go to wee enough. He only goes once, maybe twice a day! I'm thinking wet could help him?

I'm in the UK and now I'm so unsure of what wet (and dry for that matter) foods are actually good?! Applaws wet is meant to be great but even that has some rice in it!


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## Luvmyfurbabies

ibbica said:


> Dr. Pierson's site is an excellent resource
> 
> This seems to be the study that the whole 'cats fed a dry diet don't take in as much water' thing comes from:
> 
> http://www.hillspet.com/media/_refac...actDisease.pdf
> 
> Disclaimer: yes, it was conducted at Hill's. There is unfortunately little funding and few resources or support available for systematic research into pet diets outside of pet food manufacturers
> 
> But anyone can test this on their own cats at home! _*If_ they're already used to a varied diet and eating both wet and dry food, and aren't prone to UTIs.* Please use your best judgment!
> 
> Feed only dry food for a week, then only wet for a week, another week of dry and another week of wet (to avoid order effects). Keep careful track each day of how much they're drinking (use a weigh scale for the water bowl, in a home kitchen it'll be more accurate than trying to measure volume directly) and add that to the moisture content of the diet. If you use clumping cat litter you can try to estimate urinary output (total weight or volume of urine clumps); although you'd likely miss subtle differences, major changes should be detectable.
> 
> Hm... I actually keep meaning to try this with ours, as I'd like to compare water intake on a _mixed_ vs. wet vs. dry diet. Anyone (with healthy cats NOT prone to UTIs) want to join me?


This isn't actually necessary. The moment you switch from dry to wet it becomes very apparent where their water intake is coming from and why. When I fed all dry, I refilled their water several times a day. When I switched to wet they almost never drink from their water bowl. I was alarmed at this at first but my specialist assured me this was because they were getting their necessary water intake from their food. I still always leave out fresh water everyday and empty it out and refill it several times a day just in case they decide to get thirsty.


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## ibbica

Luvmyfurbabies said:


> This isn't actually necessary. The moment you switch from dry to wet it becomes very apparent where their water intake is coming from and why.


Oh yes, the difference in water intake when feeding all wet vs. all dry is very clear!  But I was talking at the end there about comparing a _mixed_ diet to _all_ wet. Recently, mine have been getting all wet for a couple days, while other days they get some kibble _as well as wet_. So I looked for a difference in water intake between "dry + wet" days and "wet only" days, and actually it's not at all obvious in my kitties.

For my two, a measurable difference in drinking only happens when I compare feeding a "very high" moisture content food ('in gravy' or 'in jelly' or made into a slurry, moisture >~82%) without kibble to feeding 1/2 kibble + 1/2 a 'drier' canned food (canned food moisture <~78%). 

Most notably, I'm seeing no measurable difference in water intake between days where they're fed raw only and days when they're fed kibble + a 'soupy' wet food (moisture >80%, either packaged as such or because I've added water to it). Now of course this is from a sample size of 2, so YMMV 

Note too that I don't feed any one diet (all raw, all canned, mixed canned + kibble) for long periods of time with no breaks, about 5 days in a row max. More differences might become apparent feeding after any one diet over a longer period.


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## soraiadigital

I've made it through 18 pages and I'm extremely glad I did it.
I was heavily recommended dry food and after this thread be sure I'll change to wet food.
Still have to search what's available around here, plus educate my hubby but thank you all for sharing such useful information.
Wet it is!


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## bluemilk

Here's my p.o.v. In the wild, prey is not mushy,there's skin,bones and other stuff that needs to be chomped,crunched and gnawed.

If a food,wet or dry,has the RDA of taurine,animal proteins,vitamins and minerals, and tastes good,isn't that really what matters? I feed Robin Hood canned,mostly. But if there's a healthy dry brand (and I check the label,I'm not fooled by the word 'natural',!) I'll pick that up,too. Generally whatever cat food's in Robin's bowl,he eats right up! And he's a healthy growing boy!


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## Pandoragem

Why feed wet if you cat seems fine on dry? The effects of chronic dehydration can take years to show up in the form of serious health issues. In my cat's case close to 10 years but when they did things went downhill quickly and it took 2 years for me to figure out that dry food was the culprit. Two months of feeding wet exclusively eliminated her symptoms (Chronic UTI's, stones and improper elimination).

A cat's natural prey contains over 70% water.


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## bluemilk

Robin's p.o.v.: 'CANNED!... CANNED!... CANNED!'


So... 


Thanks for sharing your story, Pandoragem! It's food for thought,literally! I've heard of humans making recoveries from diseases simply by changing their diet. Amazing.


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## Delahanty

The links are very helpful, and reinforce my belief that canned is superior to dry for cat food. Unfortunately, we adopted a 7 (or so)-month old kitten already addicted to the dry. We've been somewhat successful introducing him to canned food, but are still trying to make a complete change.


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## Torbie

Thank you for this information on a wet diet. My kitty, Katniss, had some constipation and was dehydrated. Te vet gave her some fluids and it treated it. She suggested giving some wet food with fiber. That was when I started re thinking what I was feeding, which was all dry Science Diet. With the information on wet food from this site, I started buying and feeding Katniss wet food. I now give her Wellness grain free canned food in various flavors twice a day. I need to find out the proper amount to feed to replace all dry, but she still gets a bit of the dry Science Diet until the bag is finished. 

I have noticed she is hungry less, dosent really drink from her water bowl even though I still freshen up the water a few times a day, and have noticed her coat is smoother and softer. I have noticed she pees more than poops when I scoop out her box daily. I never would've known this if I hadn't looked. I'll continue reading the articles and getting more info on good food for cats.


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## Fountainhead

I recently switched my 5 year old cat, Spats, to a mostly wet diet (I previously let her free feed on dry during the day and then gave her a 3 oz. can of wet food at night) due to constipation issues. Just wanted to vouch for at least one of the benefits of wet food. I noticed that she's _definitely_ shedding less than usual, despite all the stress she's been through the past couple of weeks.


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## marie73

This thread is very old, and some links are no longer valid, but there is still good information here.


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