# 3 Feral Kittens Hiding in my Store



## Ronnie (Dec 18, 2007)

My first time posting here, so here's a short intro. I am 57 y/o, and for the first 53 years of my life I couldn't stand cats! I have a wholesale business in the inner city, and a vacant yard behind the store. There's a 10' wall all around it. One day a scrawney looking cat showed up at the back door. I got a can of cat food from the corner store and fed it. I cat loving friend of mine told me he could promise me 2 things. First, if I fed the cat it would keep coming back. This I believed. The 2nd was that if it kept coming back I would get attached to it. Not me! Not possible! But it was. Some kittens came along shortly after that and when it got cold I let them come in. They stayed in our vacant basement until they got brave enough to venture upstairs to the business. All 3 had FL - 1 made it almost a year, the 2nd 2½ years and the 3rd just died last month. In addition, all this time I've been feeding a small colony of 6-10 ferals every day for the last 4 years.

Here's my problem. After "Little Girl" died a month ago, one of my employees and I decided to bring in some others. The ferals trust both of us. We can barely walk outside to feed them because they are meowing and running back and forth between our feet. But there were 3 new kittens - out of a litter of 5 -abandoned by their mother who were still distrustful. One of them got in here about a month ago, but the other 2 ran out. I didn't want to separate them, so I lured the other 2 back inside. I expected the same routine in them getting to know us as we had with the other three 4 years ago. But things aren't working out that way. Other than 1 or 2 rare sightings, we haven't seen hide nor hair of them! I know they're alive since they eat like horses! I lay out the food before we leave at 5PM, and when we open up again at 7AM the next morning, the food is gone. They play with the toys I leave out for them, and I keep six 7½ gal litter boxes downstairs, each filled with about 40 lbs of litter. They are using it regularly - at least some of them are. 

Several times a week, I have to locate and clean up feces from one of them, and the male(s) keeps spraying. I tried not feeding them for a couple days and expected they'd come out to eat on Sunday. I stayed here for hours but to no avail. I didn't want to starve them any more, so I left out tons of food, all of which was gone Monday morning. I have to capture them, to at least get them s/n. I have two new humane traps I bought, but I am not here at night when they'll be trapped, nor can I leave to get them to a vet when I get here in the morning.

While they were still outside, they mingled well with the three 1 y/o cats out back. I've been thinking about bringing in 2 of them who are very friendly. Along with having 2 cats I can actually play with, I thought the 2 older ones might draw out the kittens. As I said, they got along just fine for the first few weeks they were outside.

A lot of info, but am I barking up the wrong tree with this idea?


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

Ronnie, thank you for caring for these cats and kittens.  You are keeping them alive. As for the kittens that hide, it is impossible to say how they will react to the other kittens. It's quite possible that they will get friendlier when they see that the older group trusts you. However, I can't assure you of that. It takes a lot of patience, and you were on the right track with the food. 

The routine for socializing a feral is normally to keep them in a room which they cannot leave, and sit quietly, as you have done, but ideally, it should be done several times a day. (I know this is hard in your situation, but you will have a better chance of taming these babies if they are totally dependent on you.) You can't do weekends, I assume. That would be ideal. Normally, you would place the food far from yourself, dim the room, play some soft music, and just sit. Everything should be at the cat or kittens' pace. Never rush. Periodically, according to the kittens' actions, move the feeding dish a tiny bit closer to you. 

When the kittens get a bit braver, treats and interactive toys, like da Bird, (something that can be played with a kitten who is at a bit of a distance, ) will help you to earn the kittens' trust. Be sure to do everything in response to the kittens' reactions; do not rush anything. Eventually, perhaps days, weeks, or longer, depending on the age of the kittens, they will gradually approach you. Do not pet the kitten until you are positive it wants to be touched. I know this sounds long and dragged out, but it has the best chance of working. Grown cats would take much longer than kittens, but the routine is the same...gradually and gently, allowing the cat to set the pace. 

I so hope this can be accomplished! I would get in touch with alleycatallies.com for more hints and suggestions. It is also extremely important to get these cats and kittens spayed and neutered, and there are organizations who will help. Try some of those listed in your state at the top of this page, and call the Humane Society, (but don't give too much info. You don't want to have them put to sleep!) Just ask if there is a program for TNR closeby. That is, trap/neuter/return 

There is a link at the top of this page, in fact many links that can help you in different ways, but this one is about low cost neutering by state. I wish you the very best. Please let us know how the project is progressing. We have some very knowledgable people here who will help you, and truly care. I wish you the very best!  Please keep us updated. 

Cats have a way of worming their way into people's hearts. I'm so glad you're one of those people. God bless, and thanks!


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## Ronnie (Dec 18, 2007)

Actually, weekends are good. I travel back to this store every day - including weekends - to feed the ferals outside. Blizzards, holidays - whatever! I don't like to leave the canned food out after we close because even here in the city, I've seen possums and raccoons, so I hesitate to leave food out back for the entire weekend. 

I tried just what you suggested on Sunday, but to no avail. I didn't have the lights out, which I will try this coming weekend. Keep in mind that they have the run of the store. Our store is 3 row homes attached, and they have the first floor (working area) and the basement (vacant, but with litter boxes) to roam freely when they choose. They have barricaded themselves in the back of the farthest section of the store, behind old boxes and shelving. They are safe there and we leave them alone. 

We all have to go back to that area during the day, and despite the noise we make, they never make a sound. So I guess they're used to the sound of people. I'll work on bringing them out with some food on Sat, but I'm not optimistic. At this point, I'm actually fairly savvy with ferals. But I expected these kittens to be the same as the others. Of course, they're not. My first three had the two males hopping on my desk or in my lap in a fairly short period of time. When the first one had to be put to sleep, the second male started jumping in my lap. All along, for a period of a year and a half, the female never let anyone near her, let alone pet her. She came around with her brothers to eat, but would head down the basement steps if anyone walked by. It was only after Shiny Boy (#2) died that she started to let us come near her, and she ended up being the biggest lap cat of them all.

Finally, it _is_ funny how they work their way into your heart, even with an avowed cat hater like I was. Shiny Boy was the best pet I ever had.









Well, I'll have plenty of other questions when I start TNR with my two new traps (there are SO MANY ferals in this neighborhood), but for now, let's see if I can draw these kittens out of their hiding place.

Thanks much for your help! I've been all around the net over the years, learning how to build a cat house and such, but I think this forum is exactly where I need to be. Thanks again!


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

Ronnie, Shiny Boy was absolutely gorgeous. As most members could tell you, I have had many black cats, and I would like to steal everyone's on the forum! 

Ronnie, I would leave a bit of light on. It could take weeks before a kitten comes out, and you should take a book with you when you go. Patience is the key word! Days, weeks, and with adults, months and sometimes never. I"m glad these are kittens! I'm sure you will have success eventually.

I'm am so happy you are pleased with the forum.  We have many informational, conversational, and just fun forums. Have a seat, get yourself and iced tea or coffee, and stay a while! I'll be looking forward to news.


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## Ronnie (Dec 18, 2007)

I do have a wall clock that lights up with a white light, and we turn it on every night, so that there is enough light for them to see in the main part of the store. It's dark for outsiders looking in, but plenty of light for them to play with the toys I leave out.

Thanks for your help. I'll be checking in often, and taking a look at the rest of the site.


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

Ronnie, I was just recommending that for you, when you visit the kittens. They can see very well with only a nightlight, but you might want to read. Dim lighting just makes for a quiet, restful atmosphere.


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## Ronnie (Dec 18, 2007)

Well, I didn't leave any food out tonight so they should be hungry by the time I get there tomorrow afternoon. I am going to try your advice of keeping the lights out and playing some soft music, and I will stay for 4 or 5 hours. 

I hope to at least coax them out. I guess I'll see.


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

I'd use a night light.  I wouldn't make any overt attempts, other than putting the food far enough away for them to see you, but not be afraid you might bother them. Just sit still. It would be better if you could do this at intervals during the day. I know your situation, though. 

Good luck!  Better take a radio and play some soft music...and a magazine, for your sake! The soft music is comforting, also. No heavy metal! :lol:


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## Ronnie (Dec 18, 2007)

I have all the time I'll need, as we're closed for the next 4 days. I'm not sure what you mean by intervals. I was planning on keeping the lights out, using only the computer light for work or reading. And I was planning on just setting the food out and waiting. Are you suggesting that I set it out, and if they don't come out in a certain period of time, put it away for a while and try again later. And then keeping doing that.

Sorry, but I'm not quite clear on what you mean. I will take your suggestions and use them, to be sure.


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

Most people sit for about 40 minutes at a time, several times a day. If that's possible, they should get hungry and realize that you're not going to bother them. Yes, I would pick up the food and refrigerate it after about 40 minutes. You don't want it to spoil. Of course, kittens have to eat, so if you're not successful at all, leave them some food. If they were cats, they could go longer without food. But kittens have their age on their side. They are more easily socialized. 

You're using canned food, right? It's usually more tempting. The more odor, the better! If you want to continue to work on your computer between feeding attempts, that would be fine.


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## Ronnie (Dec 18, 2007)

Yes, it's canned. I stock multiple flavors, so I'll use the ones with the most smell. Thanks so much for your advice.


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## Mitts & Tess (Sep 4, 2004)

Waiting to hear how it works out for you Ronnie with the kittens. 
Best of luck. 
You are so sweet to do this for them.








Good advice Jeanie!


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## Ronnie (Dec 18, 2007)

_We've made contact!!!_

I just got home an hour ago (10PM) from my store. I did just what you suggested, Jeanie. First, I should give you a mental picture of the store. As I said, it's 3 row homes together, and they are connected to each other about 10 feet in from the front. All the action is in bldg #1. The entrance to the store is in the front of bldg #1, the exit to the back yard where the ferals congregate to eat is in the rear of bldg #1, and the stairs leading down to the basement where the litter boxes are is also at the rear of bldg #1. The kittens are holed up in the far back corner of bldg #3, behind shelving and boxes that are not going to be moved.

OK, so I took a comfortable chair into the entrance to #3, turned out the lights, and set out 3 plates of cat food with 1½ cans of food in each. They were about 5-6 feet from their fortress, and I was about 20 feet away from the food. The only light was a faint, one foot wide beam that filtered in from the back yard lights. I sat quietly and waited for 15 minutes, without a sound. Then, much to my surprise, a long haired gray kitty came trotting in to my left from bldg #1. It must have been playing in the back of #1 when I entered the store, and ran down the basement to hide. As it entered my dark bldg, it paused, took a look at me, and went in the back to eat. A few minutes later a second kitty came from the same spot and went back to grab a plate of food. I talked quietly to them while they ate. After the gray one finished eating, it came a few feet toward me, settling in under a step ladder. I talked to it again, and then it came forward another few feet and stopped behind and under a desk chair where it felt safe, but I could still see it. I was so tempted to go toward them just a bit, but I remembered you words, saying that everything has to be at _their_ pace. So I just sat there, talking quietly to them at times but not moving.

After a half hour, the 3rd sibling made its appearance from over in bldg #1. Apparently they all went down the basement to hide when I came in. It went over and got its fill as well. It took about an hour before they all retired into the darkness behind the boxes and shelves. I picked up the 3 plates of food, which were all gone but for about a total of one can. 

I waited almost two hours while I busied myself in the back of bldg #1, put all the remains onto one plate and went back to see if they wanted some more. But after 15 minutes I hadn't seen or heard anything. I was tired and it was late, but again I remembered your advice, Jeanie, which was to be patient. So I stayed. And then, after a total of 25 minutes, I heard something. And there, only about 6 feet away from me, emerged from behind the shelving the bold gray kitten, coming out much closer to me than he needed to, and settled behind the same chair he had picked out before. I said hello, he turned his back on me and walked back to get some food. A second one joined him from the back within a minute or two, and they ate for a while. It wasn't until the gray one finished and moved back closer to me that the 3rd one came out to eat. When the food was all gone, two of them went behind the boxes in the back, and the gray one seemingly did likewise, but he went into the shelving where he had appeared, 6 feet from me. I waited a minute or two, and when I didn't hear anything, I got up and went to pick up the empty plate. As I bent down to get it, I looked to the side, and there was the gray one just looking at me from under the shelves. I picked up the plate, he slowly got up and walked behind the shelving to get to the back of the store, and that was that!

I know that was a very long explanation of what happened, but it's much more than I expected, especially on this first try! I'll be back there tomorrow to try it again, and see if I can make even more progress.

Thank you so much for your advice!


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

Yay! That sounds like a fabulous first encounter!

When I trapped the feral Mamma (Malibu) and her litter of four in my garage, I spread a comforter in the center of the floor, set a plate of canned food several feet in front of the comforter and layed down on the comforter on my belly and read a book. After the kitties ate, they came to investigate the edges of the comforter and when I didn't move they began playing at the edge. Before I knew it, they were playing on my legs, buttocks and back. One even layed on my lower back. 
When I made a small move, they scattered. But that was the start. Shortly after that, I trapped the babies and moved them into my bathroom to tame and took their mother for TNR. She is now a housecat who sleeps with me every night and sits on my lap as I type at the computer or watch TV. 
Her babies were tamed, s/n, vaccinated and went through the PetsMart adoption program. I kept them in a small bathroom and brought them canned food twice a day. On the third day, I mixed cooked, shredded chicken with Cream of Chicken Soup (so it would stick to my fingers) and would hold my hand towards them as they huddled together in the back of the carrier. 
Lots of hissing, but that good smelling chicken won out, and they began to eat out of my hand. All it took was one brave one to show the others there was nothing to be afraid of. I read a lot of books on the floor of that bathroom to get them used to me. When they began coming around me sitting on the floor, I would gently grab them and place them on my lap and hold them there, petting and scrubbling. As soon as they showed a slight bit of relaxation, I released my 'hold' on them and kept petting/scrubbling and let them leave at their own decision. Usually they stayed for more of the petting until they were distracted by a playing sibling.
It sounds like you'll befriend them before you know it!
Heidi


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

Ronnie, this is wonderful! You couldn't have done better! You can move the food just a little bit closer, not much closer, of course. Tomorrow will probably be better yet. You are having much better results than would be expected. Be patient; I think you'll end up with 3 little friends! :thumb YES!


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## Ronnie (Dec 18, 2007)

Actually, a little less success today. I had to change the timing today, as I was having company about 4PM. That meant I'd have to try this before dark. And, I didn't have 4 hours to play around with. 

It's a dark rainy day here in Phila, so even though it was early afternoon, the room was pretty dark with the lights off. There was some light getting through that same back window. I decided not to get any closer to the food today, since I was doing this without cover of darkness, and at a time they're used to sleeping and not coming out. It only took about 10 minutes before the gray one showed up, again coming out of the shelving on the front lines, only about 5 feet away from me, and much closer than he had to. He gave me a glance and went toward the back to eat. The second he started eating the 2nd kitty came from the back and joined him. A few minutes after that, all 3 were all eating. They kept checking me out by lifting their heads, but each time I would say, "It's OK," and they would go back to their food. I'm sure they're used to me by now.

The lighting was such that I could make out their silhouettes very well, but couldn't make out their colors. They are so much bigger than when they first came inside over three weeks ago! I was shocked! The first two finished and sat off to the side to do their post feast grooming while the shy one finished eating. Then they all walked back into their fortress without any further ado. I gathered up the 3 plates and left the room. 

I waited one hour and went back with one full plate of food. I'm not sure if it was the time of day or if the interval between feedings was shorter than yesterday, but they didn't come back out for seconds. So, while there wasn't as much contact, I think they are feeling safer with me there. It's too bad about the timing, but I'll have the same situation tomorrow with Christmas Eve and then Christmas day. But I'll get there for sure!

I'll keep you posted!


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

Ronnie, this makes Christmas so special for me. God bless you! You really have a good heart. 

I'm so pleased to hear how brave they are getting, and how you're keeping them calm. I'm sure the lighting is fine. The kittens should probably eat 3-4 times a day. They just weren't hungry yet.  And, of course, they love their cat naps! Keep us posted!


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## Ronnie (Dec 18, 2007)

I've been taking away all the food after I leave in order to make them hungry when I get there. I don't want to hurt them by depriving them of food. Should I leave food out for them at night and see if they still come out for my feeding?


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

I think that would be fine. They should still be quite hungry in the morning!


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## Ronnie (Dec 18, 2007)

I just finished day 3. It was a good day!

I fed the ferals out back and then headed into bldg #3, carrying my big comfy chair. As I turned the corner, there was one of them in bldg #2, and it scurried back to bldg #3, off behind its barriers. I set my chair down and went back to get the food. This time, that same kitten was waiting at the entrance to #3. Was it waiting for me to bring food, I wondered? I walked in, and as I went toward the back, I noticed that it went right up to the shelving, in case it needed an escape, but just sat there, curling its tail in front of it. I walked toward the back and set the three plates of food down on the floor. It didn't move. I was encouraged by its lack of timidity, especially since this wasn't the gray kitten. I decided not to walk away toward where my chair had been placed, but to sit low to the floor on a box that was just behind me. I was no more than 5 feet away from the food. 

No sooner did I sit down than that kitten came out to eat. It went to the farthest plate, but still, that was no more than 6 feet away. A minute later the 3rd kitten appeared, and it joined in the feast. But after 5 minutes the gray kitten had not yet made its appearance, which was unusual, since it was the bravest. It then dawned on me that the first kitten I sighted was not waiting in bldg #2 for me to bring food, but was probably following the gray kitten to the litter boxes (or to my floor  ). Sure enough, a few minutes later the gray one returned from its adventures in the other bldg. It scurried carefully past me and then settled in to eat. I was low to the floor with my knees near my chin and my arms wrapped around my knees. It was far from comfortable, but I didn't want to waste this opportunity. They finished off every bit of the 3 cans of Friskies and quietly, one by one, walked back behind the shelving.

I think this was real progress today! Tomorrow, I may bring in a blanket and try sitting on the floor right by them, as Heidi suggested, about the same distance as today. The only downer of this whole thing is that the pooping on the floor continues. They are using the litter boxes, but at least one of them is taking a shortcut way too often. I need to fix this as well, because after all, this is a business. Can't have employees and customers complaining about that smell. But if I can get them used to being around me, then I'll figure out how to make sure they only use the litter box.

I left them about two cans of food, fresh water and a scoop of dry food. I hope they're hungry tomorrow.

My lower back is killing me, but all in all, a good day!

Going home now for Christmas Eve. Merry Christmas, everyone, and God bless.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

I think it is great that they are letting you remain so close while they eat.

As to the pooping issue...can you leave potty boxes overnight where they poop and just remove them during the day when customers and employees are present? That may help with the smell problem, though if they are doing this during the daytime, I'm not sure what to suggest.
h


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

Ronnie, many feral rescuers sit on the floor and read. Make yourself available, but not "pushy." I hope you had a wonderful Christmas. Eventually you will have the thrill of a kitten rubbing against your hand. That will be a huge step, and I think you'll be overjoyed, as I will!


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## Ronnie (Dec 18, 2007)

These last two days have shown continued progress. Yesterday was Christmas and I didn't have much time to spend. I was also sick with flu like symptoms. I think I learned a little more about the kittens' personalities. It was a sunny day and there was ample light for me to see them. I spotted the gray one first, safe inside the bottom shelf of the forward stack. I waited for over 5 minutes, but it wouldn't budge. Not until the gray and white long hair came out from the rear shelving did it also come out to eat. A short while later the short hair gray and white emerged. I talked to them frequently, and they took their time eatling. It was uneventful, but that in itself seems good. They ate less, maybe a ½ can a piece, but that's because I now leave food for them over night. 

Today was business, and I waited until closing at 5:00 to feed them. Just before closing, two of my "cat supporting" employees saw the gray & white long hair wandering around back in bldg #3. When we closed I took the food back there. The lights were on, and sure enough, there was that same kitten sitting there, in the back, but out in the open. I paused, but it didn't run away - well, at least not until I walked back toward it to lay out the food. But even then it didn't panic and run - it just walked slowly back into the shelving. No sooner did I retreat a bit to my spot than it came right back out to eat. 

I made a small mistake today. Once all three had come out to eat - and I was no more than 5 feet away - I tried to lie down on the floor. I did it ever so slowly, but by the time I got positioned two were gone. Only the gray & white long hair was unaffected by my movement. While it appears the gray one may be the most inquisitive, I now think the gray & white long hair may be the bold one of the litter. It doesn't seem scared much at all. I wanted a good picture of the 3 of them, but that will have to wait for another time. They were all out eating again in a few minutes, and ate their now normal ½ can each. I left them their night feeding and went home.

It looks like they are really getting used to me being around. I'll get through Thurs and Fri, and hope to make some real good progress over the weekend and New Years. I think you might be right! I might have them in touching mode soon!


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

Sounds great, Ronnie!


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## Ronnie (Dec 18, 2007)

I've been making steady progress with the kittens. I had to leave the store early on Thursday, so we just left plenty of food for them overnight, and it was all gone in the morning. I stayed after work on Friday to sit with them, and I decided I needed to take another step in our getting to know each other. First, I got a comfortable - OK, sort of comfortable - cushion to sit on that has me low on the floor, and I support my back against a stack of heavily filled boxes. The other change was that I wanted to keep the lights on. 

It took almost 25 minutes that first time on Friday before any of them came out into the light. I spotted the gray one almost immediately from behind the forward stack of shelves. Well, I didn't actually see the kitten - it was dark under those shelves. But I saw two bright orange eyes staring out from the darkness, and I knew it was him. But eventually, after 25 minutes, they came out, 1 or 2 at a time. The same thing happened this afternoon. They are used to me, and even though they haven't approached me yet, they never run. If I spook them with a cough or movement, they slowly walk away. They never seem to panic or scurry away. That seems good to me.

I think that my move to get them used to having the lights on when we're together has worked out fine. They don't spend as long a time eating as they used to. But that probably has more to do with them not being so very hungry because I'm leaving them plenty of food overnight than it does with the lights.

On the really good side, I've taken pictures of them! I'm going back to watch the 2nd half of the Penn St game. I'll post those pictures either after the game or tomorrow for sure! Nothin' like progress!


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

Great, Ronnie! hmmm....Penn State, huh? Well if it were Pitt, I'd understand! (Just kidding; I don't follow the games) :wink:


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

6min left in the 4th and Nittany's Lions are leading by 7. Woot!

Great job with the kitties. It sounds like they certainly are getting more and more used to you being around. Looking forward to seeing pictures.


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## Ronnie (Dec 18, 2007)

It's been days since I posted, but I've been trying to get over a nasty case of bronchitis. That hasn't stopped me from sitting with the kitties every day, but it has put a damper on how long I can stay with them. They come out to eat every day, but on two of the days only the gray one came out. Those 2 days were over the New Years weekend when we were closed, and they were free to eat not only throughout the night but all day until I got here in the afternoon. On business days where they stay hidden all day, they are much more likely to all show up. Hunger is a great motivator!

Anyway, I have some shots of them. I took plenty, but unfortunately, most of them are out of focus. Here's what I've got, though.

First, I ought to give you the picture of the area they're in so you can better envision what I describe. Here's the back of the store.










They have the entire area off to the right as their fortress. They come out from 3 spots. Almost always, they emerge from just behind the section with the long white boxes on the lower shelf, but to the right of the brown logs standing on end. Sometimes they will emerge, or more frequently return by means of the area behind the silver pole of the floor fan in the back. And when the gray one was coming out from what I called a forward position, it was from the small area under the step ladder to the right. There's a small area to the left of the brown wall, right of the white boxes and just above the green box on the lowest shelf.

OK, so that's what you're looking at. Here's the few pictures that came out good.

*ALL 3*









*ALL 3*







[/img]

*The Gray & Whites*









*The Long Hair Gray*









*The Gray Cleaning Up* 









OK, that's it for now. I'll post more later. Got to work now!


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

Thanks, Ronnie! You're obviously feeding them well! They're so pretty---or handsome!  We like NEWS!


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

They look fuzzy and beautiful. The Long Hair Gray (LHG) in the single pic looks like the front legs are super-short, but in the next pic where the kitty is cleaning itself they look normal. 
h


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## Ronnie (Dec 18, 2007)

I've been getting a bit discouraged lately, believing that these kittens are content to just eat and go back behind the shelves, and may never really become shop cats like Paws, Shiny Boy & Little Girl did when we brought them inside 4 years ago. Those 3 cats were part of this store and my life for so long, and I was looking forward to having three new pets now that the original 3 are all gone. But they go right back where they came from as soon as they are finished eating.

But I think we may be on the verge of a breakthrough! Last night after closing, I went back to feed them. I sit on the floor with my back up against a stack of boxes and my legs stretched straight out toward the shelving on the right (see first picture for orientation - 2 sections to the right of the step stool, although not in picture). Anyway, the bold gray and white (far right in next picture) came out immediately to eat. The other two came out after a while, in the same order they usually do (gray 2nd, other gray & white 3rd). They first kitten had already finished, and went off behind the shelving on the opposite side, to the left in the pictures, and I didn't see it for at least 20 minutes. I assumed it was just relaxing there. 

But I turned my head for a moment and caught it returning from the other buildings, behind me and to my left. It went behind some boxes and used the space behind them to work its way toward the back. But then it changed it's direction and went back around behind me to use the shelving on the right, directly in front of me. As it walked slowly toward the back, it paused when it reached the section directly in front of me. I talked to her and she just sat down and looked at me. While she was under the protection of the lower shelf, she was no more that 2 ft past my outstretched legs! I kept talking to her, and slowly reached for my camera. She didn't budge until I stupidly dropped it, but even then, she didn't run. She just got up and moved toward the back, and disappeared into that small opening under and behind the shelving, the one I described and pointed out under the step stool in that first shop picture.

After muttering under my breath about the wasted opportunity I blew by dropping my camera, I was pleased and encouraged by the encounter! She looked so cute just sitting upright looking at me. I'll try again, but will save the photo sessions for another time.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

I wouldn't feel discouraged at all, I think you are making GREAT progress! 

It sometimes takes more time than you think. I have one feral who after TNR would not let me touch her for 14 months! After she began to let me touch her, and she realized how good petting and scrubbling felt, she progressed much faster. With her, I had a tamer feral who was able to show-her-the-way and sort of lure her closer and closer to me with his calm and trusting actions with me.


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

Ronnie, are you moving the food dish closer and closer? That's one of the keys. Now that they know you won't force the issue, they won't notice an inch a day. 

When they are close enough, use special treats and interactive toys, something that dangles and can be batted back and forth, or something you can move across the floor for them to catch. You want them to know that every minute they interact with you is pleasant.  Moving the dish bit by bit will eventually bring them close enough to investigate you. Eventually, I believe they will be sniffing your hand. Don't touch them then though. Wait until they are rubbing up against your hand. 

Don't get discouraged; you're doing well.


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## Ronnie (Dec 18, 2007)

*HEIDI:* 
I was feeling discouraged because things are not progressing anywhere near as smoothly or quickly as they did 4 years ago with my first set of feral kittens. My disappointment is tempered, however, because I realize the difference. With my first set, they were born in May and didn't come inside until Thanksgiving. All that time they were fed by me every day, along with others in the colony. After not eating for 24 hours, and in the midst of other ferals all showing no fear of me, they were easier to tame, since they had 6 months to get to know me.

These kittens were born in August, and were hidden in the tall weeds out back for well over a month until I saw them at all, and then there was only about 2 months where I fed them outside, so they don't have the same learned trust.

The other factor causing the difference is that the first set stayed down in the basement. They'd come up when they wanted, and had the security of a safe retreat back down the steps should anything scare them. Even if I tried to catch them down there, they knew how to get up into the dropped ceiling and hide. These kittens are barricaded in the back section of the store, and there is no escape. They can only hide behind their shelves and boxes, so they are more reluctant to come out into the open. I'm just looking for some time to interact with them and observe them while they're still kittens. I'll be patient.

*JEANIE: *
To be honest, I had not been moving the food plates closer to me each day, at least not over the last week. Tonight, I did move them up. But I have to confess that I tried to make up for lost time over the last week by putting them about a foot and a half closer to me, and they were only 8-10 feet away to begin with. I had the plates in a triangle with 2 in the back and 1 another 18" closer in the front. Essentially, I just moved the rows up from where they had been. The bold one was there immediately as soon as I retreated to my spot on the floor. It ate from one of the back plates, and then later moved up to the front plate. The gray came out 5 minutes later and ate cautiously from a back plate - the one closest to the shelves! And the 3rd one came out almost 15 minutes later, and it too ate from one of the back plates. They thought they were safer eating farther away, but in reality the back plates they were eating from tonight were in the same spot the front plates were in yesterday. I got away with it, and now I'll only inch them up every day. 

I'll be stopping at PetSmart tomorrow to replenish my food supply, which by the way, has gotten expensive. I stop there just about every other week, and I buy 5 cases of canned food and a big bag (20 lb?) of Purina Cat Chow. That's not only for the 3 kittens but for the ferals - 7 regulars and a few scavengers. Oh well, it's worth it. While I'm there I'll pick up some toys as you suggested. I already have plenty of toys for them, but nothing I can pull or move with a string. I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope for some interaction.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

I can understand how you feel. The longest it ever took me to get 'friendly' with a cat was a few weeks. After I TNR'd Malibu, she wouldn't let me touch her for about 4 or 5 months. At the time, I was shocked it took so long to gain her trust. (she now sleeps on my head every night for the past year) And for PrettyGreenEyes to take 14 months... Man-o-man! She made me think I had lost my kitty-pied-piper touch.

Pretty is now coming inside the house for short periods of time, from 20min to 1.5hrs. She loves the new "peek-a-prize" the kitties got for xmas. It is a small box with numerous holes you can put dry food or toys inside for them to 'fish' out with their paws. May I suggest getting toys you won't mind them carrying off and losing... 

Oooh! I have a good idea, I have a turbo scratcher that the kitties all love! It has a cardboard (replaceable) center for scratching and around the outside is a track that a ball rolls in, it can't come out, and goes round/round and the kitties love it. That may be a good toy for them. Another one, I don't know the name, maybe Fling-a-ma-string? My friend sent me a short plastic wand with about 6' of a strip of fleece attached to wave around, several of my kitties love to chase, jump in the air and play with it.
Good luck!
Heidi


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## Ronnie (Dec 18, 2007)

Hi everyone! Sorry its been so long since I last checked in to tell you about the kittens, but I've had a change at work. My manager of 23 years quit on New Years Eve day, and I've been left to almost live here while I'm training someone else. 12 hour days with an hour commute each way. But that will diminish with time. 

Anyway, on to the kitties! Maybe its been a blessing - as far as the kittens are concerned - that I've had this change in schedule. It's taken away my sense of urgency to tame these kittens so we can play and interact together. Things are progressing, and I would have said 'slowly' before, but now I think things are moving along OK.

It's only a few days a week that I actually get to go back into the back building to sit with them while I feed them. When I do, they come out right away. I still have the 3 plates of food set out in a triangle, but now the closest plate is no more than 2½ feet away and the back plates no more than 4 feet. They don't seem to mind me much, and the long hair white & gray female has almost no fear at all. She'll come within 2 feet of me while eating and will turn her back to me. The other two will also do that, but seem more vigilant in keeping an eye on me.

They now also come out more often early in the day and late in the day. I assume that's because there's less traffic back there at those times, and because its either before or after their long day slumbers. But prior to this, you wouldn't know they existed at all during working hours. So they're becoming more bold and adventuresome. The female will call out in a manner I've only heard once before. Its hard to explain, but once I see her she'll stop. She will now wander into the middle building during those early and late hours, and when I go to take a look, she won't run. There is one wide walkway between all three buildings, and when I'm working at the counter up front in #1, I can see straight through #2 and into #3. She will often sit on the step leading from #2 to #3, and her siblings will follow her in doing so now. There have even been a couple instances when she's decided to get up and walk toward me. She'll come within 4 or 5 feet without much fear. On one occassion, she actually came toward me to within 4 or 5 feet, and began to playfully roll over on her back from one side to the other. She did it several times before she hdecided she'd had enough, but I was really encouraged by that show of familiarity and trust. As I'm sure you all know, cats won't expose their bellies unless they feel safe in doing so, so we're really moving forward. I have the feeling that perhaps within the next month I might actually get to touch her. Once I do, I think everything will get much easier and mutual contact will all fall into place.

Also on a positive note, the rogue pooper has fallen into line. Apparently he or she was schooled by the other two siblings. This has been OK now for almost a month.

Here's some pictures I've taken. My camera is just OK and my photo skills are even worse, but I'll post the best of them. Forgive the fuzziness of some of them. Hope you like them, and now that I've gotten this long post done, it will be easier to post frequently.

*Here's a couple where they're playing with a feather toy I bought them.*


















*Here they are eating in the back of the store.*










*And here the female is standing watch from her perch up in the shelves.*










*Looking in from building #3.*


































*The next 3 pictures are when she was in a playful mood. First she's playing while reclining on the step, and then when she came toward me and rolled over. The pictures are not clear but convey her trust and playfulness.*



























*And finally, after all that playing, some rest in their jungle gym!*









*I've also taken some pictures of my feral colony out back behind the store. I'll post them next time!*


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

Oh! They are beautiful! I really feel like the rolling is her trying to express how much she wants attention. I think that once you can get your hands on her, and she realizes how nice it is, she will be a real cuddle-bug.
Is she spayed? I just had a thought and wondered if she was coming into season... 8O 
Anyhow, it sounds like you are making great progress!
h


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

Great! I love the pictures too.  I think some kitty treats might bring them closer yet, especially if they're hungry! Also, an interactive toy would be great. This is such good news. 

If you want to get a low cost spay/neuter program, this link might help!
http://www.lovethatcat.com/spayneuter.html

Thanks for the good news, Ronnie!


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## Ronnie (Dec 18, 2007)

Thanks Jeanie! But I have to catch them first!


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

That's true! The Humane Society will lend you a humane trap. They might charge a fee, but they might not. In Pittsburgh it's one of the societies that offers low cost spaying and neutering too. However, I would write to http://www.alleycat.org/orgs.html, and find out if they can recommend a program near you for t/n/r. (trap, neuter, release) Good luck, Ronnie!


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