# Senior Cat frequently vomiting.



## Gecko_G (Jul 17, 2013)

My girl is a senior Siamese cat, she estimated to be about 15 years old. Indoor only. Only pet in the household.

She has been frequently (couple to several times a week) vomiting, and has been for about 10 months now. No particular time of day (though 2 in the morning does seem to occur somewhat more frequently than other random times through the day or night), sometimes it's full stomach contents in various stages of digestion, other times it just some stomach juices - therefore there seems to be no correlation to when or how much she eats. Water uptake and apetite are a-ok and both liquid and solid outflow is regular (the vomiting does occasionally coincide with some mild diarreah, but probably in less than 10% of the times). And she otherwise seems fine right after throwing up (including protesting loudly everytime when I have to clean her up afterwards) and fine the rest of the time. Repeated, expensive, blood tests by the vet show she is extremely healthy and when they examin her they say she is very healthy for her age. I had accepted that it was apparently just because she's soo old and resigned myself just to buying lots of carpet cleaner until the inevitable and sad end. 

Only other isse was about a year ago (just before this started) we moved cross town and she had lost a lot of weight - previously she was always overweight and has now rebounded to what I suppose is a normal weight (though she seems skinny to me - but as I said she was previously always overweight according to the vet so that's what I'm used to seeing).
But now 10 months later and several cans of carpet cleaner later it's still going on, this can't be good for her throat, and I'm extremely worried (not to mention sick of being woken-up at 2 am to clean up after her).
Most of her life she suffered from a recurring ear problem that was FINALLY diagnosed as caused by a food allergy, and so she was put on a prescription cat food ("Prescription Diet Z/d Low Allergin") 3 years ago and has had no further ear problems since (and immediately became much happier). 

It was suggested online that since she has been eating nothing but this dry food for 3 years that perhaps she has developed an allergy to the low-allergin food. She's such a picky eater (she's never even cared for cat treats) that despite trying to mix up her diet by day (still feeding the dry anti-allergin at night) but she'll rarely eat anything else. I can get her to eat very small portions of red meat, chicken, or tuna, but only if I hand-feed it to her - and never very much. If I just put in on a plate or in a bowl she mostly ignores it (I tried it for about 2 weeks, she apparently got hungry enough that she ate some red meat from a plate once and some tuna from a plate once). She'll grudgingly eat one flavor of canned food for a few days if she gets hungry enough (and never when it's put out fresh, only after it is seemingly stale), but then she'll refuse to it eat anymore of it after a couple of days (usually right after I go ahead and buy more than one can at a time of a kind she seems to tolerate). End result is I've been throwing a lot of stale cat food and/or meat down the disposal. The 2 times I've gotten her to eat other stuff for more than a couple days in a row, she's thrown up far less often, but hasn't stopped entirely -but I'm not sure if it's due to coincidence or the more varied diet - and I'm concerned her ear issue will return.

I'm running low on the dry low-allergin food so It's almost time to buy more, but I'm worried that might be what is causing her to throwing up so I hate to buy another big bag. On the other hand it might have no connection to the food at all. I can't afford to go back to the vet for another round of tests just to again have them tell me again she's otherwise healthy. I looked around the local Pet Smart store hoping to find some other kind of low allergy food, but no dice.

Any suggestions or thoughts?


Greg "Gecko" W.


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## cinderflower (Apr 22, 2012)

I can't say one way or another what it is of course, I can just tell you what happened with mine. she's 16, and about a year ago she would throw up if she ate more than a tbsp. of (dry) food at a time. the last year I have been feeding all of my cats canned food and she never throws up. I think she has twice in the last year, which is really good compared to what it was.

it's hard for me to get her to eat a lot at once, so I still have to feed her often but she has a couple of health problems and she's really not doing too badly considering all that's going on. I make a lot of her food especially, and she likes it. it's mostly chicken, with vitamins, taurine and salmon oil. the fewer ingredients, the better she seems to like a food. you could also try weruva paw lickin' chicken, it's pretty simple.

throwing up that often isn't normal even though your cat's blood work is fine. it's obviously something, could be as simple as a grain intolerance, so i'd try different grain-free canned foods. there are some limited ingredient foods if that concerns you. my vet has a 16 year-old Siamese "office" cat named Twin, and he's very healthy too. (well he should be, he lives at a veterinary clinic lol.) plus i'd think it would cause loss of fluid at the very least, loss of nutrients would be a worse result. I think most cats over 16 experience some loss of kidney function if not CRF/CKD so you might think about a fountain. I just got a ceramic one and I am very pleased with it.


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## westfayetteville (Sep 22, 2011)

Hi There
I know you said they did blood test, but did they do a T4 test to check for thyroid problems? Do you have copys of the blood work, I would be curoius to know what her B/G's are.

For the throwing up you can ( this is what I do) give her 1/4 tablet of pepcid A/C 10mg twice a day. Must be pepcid A/C and not pepcid complete.


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## JungliBillis (Mar 20, 2013)

Oi! Poor thing. Have you tried Natural Balance? They have Limited Ingredient Diet line, dry and wet. Too bad she does not like canned food, but maybe you can try their canned food as well, just a few cans to see if she might eat it 

I hope she feels better!


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## laurief (Jun 22, 2008)

I have the same questions asked by westfayetteville. Was a Total T4 run to check thyroid function?

Could you please post ALL of her most recent blood test results here for us to take a look? If you don't have a copy of the lab report, I strongly recommend you contact your vet and get it. Oh, and if you do post the results here, please include all of the lab's reference ranges (they'll be printed on the lab report, along with your cat's own blood values).

Laurie


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## Gecko_G (Jul 17, 2013)

*Re: Senior Cat frequently vomiting*

Thank you cinderflower, westfayetteville, JungliBillis, & laurief for the replies,

I don't have a copy of the actual test, but it did include T4, and while going over the numbers the vet mentioned specifically that the Thyroid number or level (or whatever) was amongst the good or great numbers.

I finally got her to eat some paté canned food (in this particular case it was Friskies brand Ocean Whitfish dinner paté), and basically nothing but (just a little bit of the dry z/d sprinkeld on top) over a 36 hours span (took a lot of coaxing) and she still threw-up.

I'm going to try some straight Tuna again today, and then next some sensitive stomach caned stuff that I had bought (a tiny 3 oz can) when I went to Pet Smart. Maybe I should head back to Pet Smart to look for "limited ingrediant" stuff like this "weruva" that cinderflower mentioned or the Natural Balance brand JungliBillis mentioned.

The Pepcid A/C (not Complete) thing westfayetteville mentioned sounds intreaquing oops: I didn't spell that word right ), but like with the Benefiber/Metamucil idea on YouTube, I'm weary of introducing something designed for human concumption into her diet.


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## cinderflower (Apr 22, 2012)

you won't find weruva at petsmart but they do manufacture soulistic for petco and some of the giant brand that petsmart sells, the fish ones at least. there's BFF but I don't know if petsmart carries that either, but it's almost all fish-based. soulistic and BFF aren't such limited ingredient foods, and I don't think all of them are grain-free, you have to check.

Pepcid A/C is perfectly fine to give cats (per my vet, except my cat stopped without it) and so is miralax, which my vet also suggested because she got constipated last week. not too badly but unnecessarily if I can do something to help prevent it.

i'm not sure where you buy natural balance, but if there isn't an independent pet store close to you, onlynaturalpet.com sells most brands, and they will sell you single cans and also accept returned partial cases for credit on another food.


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## koshechka (Jul 14, 2013)

My cat has IBD (Inflammatory Bowel Disease) and her symptoms before she was diagnosed were exactly the frequent vomiting and weight loss. The blood test in our case showed increase white blood cell count indicating inflammation, but not all cats with IBD have abnormal blood count. She's also had thickened intestine when the vet palpated it, also shown on ultrasound.

It might make sense to discuss it as a possibility with the vet. 

Heart issues could also result in vomiting.


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## Gecko_G (Jul 17, 2013)

*her test results...*

re: cinderflower's message- In this town, asides from the one PetSmart on the other side of town, the only options are buying direct from the vet (which seems expensive - but it's also the only route to get the prescription z/d of course) or whatever is available on the shelves at regular grocery stores (mostly for canned they only have friskies or fancy feast, everyother option is various dry foods)

re: koshechka's message- That's interesting. Way back on the first blood test she had a slightly elevated white cell count and the vet proscribed a round of anti-biotics for whatever "minor infection" she was fighting.

I went to the vet's office - I was running out of the z/d and I had an errand over on that side of town anyhow, and while I was there I asked for a copy from her last blood work. The date on it is January so I think it's actualy one of the first blood tests, not the most recent one.

since someone asked about it, the T4 numer is 1.0 ug/dL, within the the "normal" range of 0.8-4.7

The report is 4 pages long, so too much to post. Since there's only a few values outside the "Reference Range" (and several of them only barely outside the range), I'll just give those numbers:

Amylase 2061 U/L (reference Range 520-2060)
Creatinine 0.7 mg/dL (0.8-2.3)
Potassium 5.4 mEq/L (3.9-5.3)
WBC 19.9 K/uL (4.2-15.6)
Reticulocyte 64 K/uL (3-50) (note: that is on a 0.8% Reticulocyte and in the "mild" range {50-75} for "Degree of bone marrow response" and a long note about, in part, that it could be "a transient physiologic response or evidence of bone marrow response to an increased peripheral demand" and about how if it's consistently over 50 it could indicate various things)
Monocytes 4.9% (1-4)
Absolute Neutrophil SEG 13850/uL (2500-12500)
Absolute Monocyte 975/uL (0-850)


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## wallycat (Nov 10, 2012)

When our senior cat (Wally) started throwing up more than we had noticed before, it was dx as thyroid issues. We used a cream to rub into his inner ear (not precise, but the oral meds made him puke violently). He lasted many more years with that scenario and we decided to finalize his life at 22.
I hope you can come to a diagnosis and decent treatment. My heart goes out to you...never easy to see your beloved feel unwell.


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## Gecko_G (Jul 17, 2013)

thanks wallycat.

Since I've been trying to alternate her diet the throwing up has been _somewhat_ less frequent and smaller amounts when she does throw-up, but it hasn't stopped (of course I'm also still feeding the dry anti-allergin prescription stuff half the time in rotation). Mainly, I can't find something she will consistently eat (she'll tolerate or even like something one day then not at all the next). ie with that expensive small can of sensitive stomach stuff I had mentioned, she eagerly ate it the first serving (of half a can), but the second serving the next day she licked it completely dry but wouldn't eat the chunks. And it's so irregular when she does eat the other stuff for a stretch that I can't tell if the reduced throwing-up coincides with her eating the other stuff or not. 

Since she seems ok (though not enthusiastic) at the moment with Friskies Ocean Whitefish Paté I also got a can of Friskies Ocean Whitefish and Tuna Fillet to try next. Sometime in the next day or two I'll head back to PetSmart to look for grain-free and/or limited ingredient foods like some have suggested, and I also want to see if they have anysort of probiotic additive I can try giving her.

In the next day or two I'll also need to check her ears very closely to make sure her original ear-problem allergy isn't returning as I'm afraid it might be (it's why she was put on the low allergin z/d dry 3 years ago).


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## spirite (Jul 31, 2012)

I've got one kitty who will go a couple of weeks without vomiting and then throw up every day or every other day for a few weeks, and another kitty who is just like yours in terms of fussy eating, so I sympathize. 

I can't help you with the bloodwork results, but for the wet food issue, I actually bought a mini food processor. Both of mine only lick liquid and leave chunks, and even pate has to be super smushy, so I put it in the processor with some water. Maybe that will encourage your kitty to eat some more? Maybe she's only eating a little at a time because she's feeling nauseated. The Pepcid a/c (or generic famotidine) should help. You could also try additives, like you said. I use Homeopet Feline digestive upsets. I can't quite tell if it's working or not, though a couple of posters here have had good results. 

I hope you are able to figure out how to resolve the issue and that kitty is feeling better soon!


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## cinderflower (Apr 22, 2012)

1.0 is an awesome t-4 level for that age. even though normal is .08 - 4.0, generally they want older cats to read in the lower half of that. mine is medicated and hers is about .09.

your cat obviously has some kind of infection (like your vet said) but I think i'd want to know more about where it is, (not me specifically, but it would be good for *you* to know) and what's causing it before just giving antibiotics. these days it's unwise to give antibiotics unless you get a culture (urinary tract) because if you give the wrong one or don't get it completely eradicated, it comes back stronger and antibiotic-resistant, which is not good for older cats. so, for whatever that's worth.

you didn't say what the BUN is (don't need to really) but the creatinine is low, and that can also be from not eating enough.


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## wallycat (Nov 10, 2012)

You can also try baby-food. Make sure you check the ingredients. I think there is an organic one that dumps in corn starch...OY!

I also use boiling water and mash with a fork. Some cats get used to eating cold food and others prefer warm (fresh-kill-like) food. That would help with hydration and blending the food.


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## westfayetteville (Sep 22, 2011)

On the Blood work dose it have what the B/G's are ?


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## koshechka (Jul 14, 2013)

One other thing about my cat with IBD - when they diagnosed her, they also checked her B12 levels, it's a separate blood test, and they were very low because her inflamed intestines interfered with absorption. You could try it too. 

I just realized that your cat is also senior, so yes, IBD is something to discuss with the vet, pancreatitis as well. We also did an ultrasound which showed thickened intestine. You could also try like an experiment a limited ingredient diet - there are prescription diets, but Natural Balance has a line too e.g. duck and potato or venison and pea or maybe some rabbit food - some protein that your cat hasn't had before - instead of what she normally its, but just make sure it's really limited ingredients. also eliminate grains. You could try it for a few weeks (if the cat will eat it, with mine it failed) and see if it helps.

My cat's only first symptom was vomiting. At first I thought it was hairballs even though she'd not had them before, but then the incidents increased to a couple a week, and often it was just liquid. Often she'd "announce" that she was about to throw up by making strange howling (not hacking, howling) sounds before. She's started to lose weight at about the same time as the vomiting incidents' increased which is when I took her to the vet.

Incidentally, it also turned out later that she's had heart disease - a rare mitral valve malformation -that could've also been a factor in vomiting, though vomiting went away completely after she started Budesonide (a steroid).


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## Gecko_G (Jul 17, 2013)

Sprite & Wallycat: I tried making her food into a slurry like consistency once. She wouldn't touch it and it attracted (and killed) a bunch of ants :yikes

Cinderflower: The infection she had was back on the very first blood test time, Vet hasn't said anything about an infection since (I don't actually see "White cell count" anywhere on the report - it's probably got some technical name which I don't recognise). BUN was 20 mg/dL (reference range: 15-34)

Westfayetteville: B/G's? There's a B/C Ratio of 28.6, but no B/G listed. Also a couple of 3 letter acronyms that end in "BC".

Kosheckha: That strange howling before vomiting you mentioned she used to do sometimes, but I _think_ she even did that before the problem (I'm not sure though as she so rarely threw up before hand so I'm not positive)

I went to PetSmart the other day. They had a "limited Ingredient" labeled brand ("Wilderness Blue" I think it was called), but looking at the ingredient list, it sure seemed to have a long ingredient list! I didn't see any Natural Balance nor any of the other brands/products that have been mentioned, but I did find some "Natural Choice" by Nutro. It's grain free, relatively few ingredients with various minerals and vitamins (though it does have small amounts of both Guar & Xantham gums - seems you can't get away from them completely but in this they are low on the ingredient list), and it has senior specific formulaes. So I picked up 2 flavors, and I'll try them on her starting tomorrow night (tonight it will be finishing off the open can of another kind, if she keeps grudgingly eating it).

I also found a (take a deep breath, it has a long name): "GNC Ultra Mega Multivitamin Plus Premium Formula soft chews by GNC Pets". (Who comes up with these names? :roll I was looking for a pro-biotic, but this was the closest thing I saw, it mention's "plus digestive enzymes". So far she surprisingly REALLY :jumpseems to like it - I was even able to use it to trick her into eating a bit of the canned food while trying to get at the treat in the bowl next to the food. This one is marked as for All Cats. They also had one that was specifically for senior cats, but it was a dollar more a pouch - and looking over the ingredients list they were mostly the same.

So far all my grocery trips have been to stores that wouldn't carry the Pepcid or the fiber powders brands that have been mentioned, I do plan to get and try one of those next time I have to go to a regular grocery store. 

Over the past week I'd estimate she's been throwing up every 50-60 hours.


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## NebraskaCat (Jan 15, 2013)

B/G might refer to blood glucose.


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## laurief (Jun 22, 2008)

Gecko_G said:


> The infection she had was back on the very first blood test time, Vet hasn't said anything about an infection since (I don't actually see "White cell count" anywhere on the report


White blood cell counts would only be included in the lab report if a CBC (complete blood count) was ordered. But if the blood test only involved a chemistry profile, then white blood cell counts wouldn't be included. Look for WBC, eosinophils, monocytes, lymphocytes, and/or neutrophils. These are all types of white blood cells that may be in your lab report if a CBC was run.



> B/G's? There's a B/C Ratio of 28.6, but no B/G listed. Also a couple of 3 letter acronyms that end in "BC".


This is blood glucose. It will probably appear on the lab report as glucose or GLU.



> So far all my grocery trips have been to stores that wouldn't carry the Pepcid or the fiber powders brands that have been mentioned


You can buy Pepcid AC at any drug store over the counter. Psyllium powder can be purchased at health food stores. It is also the active ingredient in Metamucil (available at any drug store over the counter). I also recommend you buy Slippery Elm Bark at a health food store. It is very effective at coating and soothing the GI tract, which may help alleviate your cat's vomiting (esp. if it's caused by GI irritation and not by a foreign body obstruction). You can read all about Slippery Elm Bark here:

Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease - Holistic Treatments

Laurie


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## Gecko_G (Jul 17, 2013)

Nebraskacat: Ah! Glucose is listed, it was 113 mg/dL (ref. range 70-150)



laurief said:


> White blood cell counts would only be included in the lab report if a CBC (complete blood count) was ordered. But if the blood test only involved a chemistry profile, then white blood cell counts wouldn't be included. Look for WBC, eosinophils, monocytes, lymphocytes, and/or neutrophils. These are all types of white blood cells that may be in your lab report if a CBC was run.


ok, that makes sense. This did include a CBC Comprehensive. WBC & RBC ("white" & "red" blood cell counts makes sense). I mentioned the WBC above (when I didn't know what it was) as one of the few numbers outside the normal range 19.9 K/uL out of the range of 4.2-15.6. I wonder if this was the very first blood test when the vet had pointed out the white cell count was high and proscribed a round of anti-biotics. By the way RBC is 7.95 M/uL (6.0-10.0). I'm presuming "uL" is actually supposed to be "µL" for "micro-liters", and that "K" is supposed to be "k" (lowercase) for "Kilo-" (10^3 or "thousand") and "M" is for "Mega-" (10^6 or "million").

Eosinophil: 3.6% (2-12), Absolute Eosinophil 716/uL (0-1500)
Monocytes 4.9% (1-4), Absolute Monocyte: 975/uL (0-850). I had mentioned this one previously as one of the numbers outside the 'reference range', but had no idea at the time what it meant.
Lymphocytes: 21.7% (20-55), Absolute Lymphocyte: 4318/uL (1500-7000)
Neutrophil SEG 69.6% (35-75). Absolute Neutrophil SEG 13850/uL (2500-12500). Again this is one of the one's I mentioned previously, not nowing what it was at the time.

good to know now what these mean, thank you.



> > B/G
> 
> 
> This is blood glucose. It will probably appear on the lab report as glucose or GLU.


ah, ok. see above.



> You can buy Pepcid AC at any drug store over the counter. Psyllium powder can be purchased at health food stores. It is also the active ingredient in Metamucil (available at any drug store over the counter). I also recommend you buy Slippery Elm Bark at a health food store. It is very effective at coating and soothing the GI tract, which may help alleviate your cat's vomiting (esp. if it's caused by GI irritation and not by a foreign body obstruction). ...


I just haven't had a need to go to a regular grocery store in a while. I get most of my groceries at a discount store that doesn't have any of this type of stuff, supplemented by items from bulk grocery stores. I get weekly ad's for 3 "regular" grocery stores in town (one nearby, 2 across town) and only go to them if I'm out of something or if they have a good sale price going - and the cross town ones I only go to if it's a really great deal or if I've got errands in that part of town. I usually end up at one once or twice a month but they haven't had any good deals advertised lately and I haven't run out of anything so I haven't needed to go to one.

I can't think of any health food stores in this whole area asides from a small GNC pill supplement store in the mall. There's a Trader Joe's and I think a "Whole Foods" somwhere in the nearby city (about an hours drive away), that's the closest think I can think of - and that's probably not the type of place you mean. I'll definately try either the Pepcid A/C (not complete, I keep reminding myself) or the Metamucil first, but I'll keep that slippery elm bark in mind if that doesn't work.

Thank you again everyone.


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## laurief (Jun 22, 2008)

Unfortunately, those test results you posted from January are now outdated and may not have any relevance whatsoever to your cat's current medical condition. If the cat has had labs run since January, it would be a lot more helpful to see the most recent results.



> I just haven't had a need to go to a regular grocery store in a while.


Don't you have a DRUGSTORE anywhere nearby? You'd probably end up paying a lot more for Pepcid AC and Metamucil at a grocery store than you would at a drugstore. But you could buy them cheapest at a discount retailer like Walmart, Kmart, or Target.

Laurie


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## Gecko_G (Jul 17, 2013)

*Ants! grrgh!*



laurief said:


> Unfortunately, those test results you posted from January are now outdated and may not have any relevance whatsoever to your cat's current medical condition. If the cat has had labs run since January, it would be a lot more helpful to see the most recent results.


yeah, I'd asked for the most recent bloodwork, but this is the one they gaev me. Of course even the most recent one would be months old now, as this has been going on for a while now. 



> Don't you have a DRUGSTORE anywhere nearby? You'd probably end up paying a lot more for Pepcid AC and Metamucil at a grocery store than you would at a drugstore. But you could buy them cheapest at a discount retailer like Walmart, Kmart, or Target.


drugstore? hmm... there is a RiteAid which I'll be going right past on Tuesday. I'll swing in and take a look there, thanks for the idea.

Two nights ago I messed up. I was running the dishwasher so I went ahead and washed up her bowls, I had bought a new fifth one and wanted to wash it as well - other than one left for water overnight of course, and so for her overnight food I just put the last of the can down in the can on her food mat (after making sure it had no sharp edges of course). Got her to eat a little bit by tricking her again with those vitamin chews she likes, but not much, so I left the rest overnight like usual. That was a misteak. By the morning ants had discovered it. Not enough to be swarming (thus I couldn't follow a line back to find the colony) but more than just stray scouts. Usually I put her bowl inside another bowl with water to make a moat, but the can was too small for that and would of swamped, and I hadn't had any ant problems in that part of the house so I didn't think anything of it (and I was tired and wanted to get to bed). So as soon as I woke she was crying for food. After cleaning up and killing all the ants I could find, I put brand new bowls out (with the food dish in a "moat" again) - in a completely different room - and put out the dry anti-allergin food for the day. By 2pm she had eaten all the dry so I gave her a touch more.

Last night I tried the first of the Nature's Choice last night, putting half the can (from a 3 oz can) of the 'Tuna & Cod' senior flavor one out, sprinkeld the little bit of leftover dry on top, and again lured her over with one of those vitamin chews she seems to like (of course this time she was able to pick it out right away and I couldn't get her to eat any of the canned stuff). I figured she get hungry enough in the night to eat some, and this time the food was safe in the "moat", so I went to bed (and it was completely the other side of the apartment).

Again, as soon as I awoke she was crying for food. hmm... Went to the room where the food was, immediately saw that she had thrown up again, and when I approached the bowl ... yup, ants! :cussing I guess these various canned stuff is just too smelly and apealing to ants. There was a whole bunch of them dead floating in the water, and I guess the others had walked across the floating bodies. They had apparently just succeded becaues they weren't swarming yet (and thus again no line of ants to follow back to a colony - though I followed one ant for a while heading straight north before I lost track of it, away from the room where I had had the ant problem the previous night - perhaps heading towards the front door) and I only found two ants on the inner bowl but several on the outer circling trying to find a way across. So I dumped that bowl down the disposal. She's crying for food the whole time so I put the remainder of the can on a plate hopeing maybe she'd eat it right away... nope. Sprinkled some of her dry anti-allergy food on top and tryed to lure her over with one of the vitamin chews, but even that wouldn't attract her this time. So I sealed it in foil put it up on the counter and went about my morning. Twice now she's come into the room where I am and cryed like she wants food, so I've gone and got it, uncovered it and tryed to get her to eat, but she walks away so I re-seal it with the foil and go on. hopefully one of these times she'll be hungry enough to eat it - I'm certaintly not going to put it down and leave it anywhere.

[frustrating yell]arrrgh![/frustrating yell]


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## cinderflower (Apr 22, 2012)

> _There was a whole bunch of them dead floating in the water, and I guess the others had walked across the floating bodies. _


i know it's frustrating for you but this made me really lol.

yes. both types of food will draw ants if you're prone to them but canned is much worse. when i first started with canned food, i would leave some in their bowls because they didn't eat all of it first but would go back over the next couple of hours and finish it. then i got so good (in my own mind) that i could measure out how much they get for each meal and none is left over. there are other reasons too, 1) one cat is on a diet and likes to go rummaging for leftovers; 2) one cat eats way too fast and barfs, so he can't have any more than his set allotment in the morning (and today he did anyway). i'd love to leave food out for my thin old blind kitty, but she'd never get it.

if you are having problems with the better foods, have you tried something like fancy feast first? i know it's not the greatest food, but if you can get her used to eating canned food that way, it might work. (excuse me if you've already addressed this somewhere, i didn't read through the entire thread again.) anything she'll eat actually, friskies, nine lives, sheba, aristocat, fancy feast. then you can move on up to the healthier kinds if you want after she gets used to eating canned food.

and if you can't leave food out overnight (i think it's safe to say you can't) if she doesn't eat all night (or 8 hours, however long you sleep) i bet she does when you feed her in the morning.


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## Gecko_G (Jul 17, 2013)

cinderflower said:


> f you are having problems with the better foods, have you tried something like fancy feast first? i know it's not the greatest food, but if you can get her used to eating canned food that way, it might work. (excuse me if you've already addressed this somewhere, i didn't read through the entire thread again.) anything she'll eat actually, friskies, nine lives, sheba, aristocat, fancy feast. then you can move on up to the healthier kinds if you want after she gets used to eating canned food.


I had a little bit of luck with friskies, but even with that I can't get her to consistently eat anything over a long enough a period of time to see if it effects how much she's throwing up.

It took about five times but then she finally ate a bit of the Nature's Choice when I'd uncover it and put it down after she'd come to me crying for food. Eating first just the vitamin chew and a little bit of the food right around it. about 50 minutes later she came crying for food again so I uncovered it again and put it down - she smelled it and walked off. 40 minutes later, repeat again. Finally on the 3rd time (the 8th overall) she right away ate a little bit of the food, followed by praise and a quick petting before she walked away. From there on, every 40-50 minutes she'd cry for food, I'd uncover it and put it down for, she'd eat a little bit of it, praise and a quick petting before she walked away, I'd re-wrap it in foil, then repeat in another 40-50 minutes. It took all day but she eventually ended up eating it all of it (and it was only about an ounce and a half total). Repeating this pattern is doable this weekend, but not long term.

Overnight I put out more of her anti-allergin dry food (in a bowl in a "moat" again), plus put a dryer sheet under the bowl (I've heard it works for some types of insects, but I don't think ants were one of them, but it also doesn't hurt anything). No ant problems as of this morning.


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## laurief (Jun 22, 2008)

You know, some ants can have pretty toxic bites. Perhaps your girl's nausea is caused by ingesting toxic ants. If I were you, I'd contact an exterminator and inquire about non-toxic methods of eliminating ants from your living environment.

Laurie


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## Gecko_G (Jul 17, 2013)

laurief said:


> You know, some ants can have pretty toxic bites. Perhaps your girl's nausea is caused by ingesting toxic ants. If I were you, I'd contact an exterminator and inquire about non-toxic methods of eliminating ants from your living environment.


Good thought, but this has been going on now since well before the ants were a problem. It's been over 10 months.


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## spirite (Jul 31, 2012)

Any improvement, or anything discovered by the vet?


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## Gecko_G (Jul 17, 2013)

Last Tuesday I picked up some Pepcid AC (it turned out that drugstore was a Wallgreen's, not a RiteAid as I had thought) and I've been smashing up a quarter of a pill and sprinkling it over each meal, but so far no change, she's still throwing up, still about every 2-3 days.

Since she's been eating the vitamin & pro-biotic chew's I mentioned, it's turned her stool a bit dark, not sure if that means anything.

She's still avoiding the canned food. I'm lucky to be able to get her to eat a tablespoon worth a day. Did a little better with a bit of tuna the other day, but again not much and it took multiple tries over the course of a whole day to get her to eat _that_ much.

At only a tablespoon a day, that little 3 oz can of Nature's choice lasted an entire week - and that was with throwing some of it out each time. I'm now trying a different flavor of friskies and next I'll try some 9-lives brand I picked up. 

I'm worried I might of ruined the current can of friskies though. I put just a tiny bit in the bowl to see if she would like it and I didn't put in the freezer right away but left it (covered) on the stove top - which because of the pilot light is always warm. I had hoped she would like this new stuff and right away eat what I had put down so I left it out of the fridge so I could quickly add more when she ate what was in the bowl. Well, she didn't, and I forgot I had left it out, so it sat all day on a warm stove top before I saw it and put it in the fridge. Now today when I got it out it was extra fragrant and had a lot of liquid - could it of gone bad? So far today she's completely ignoring the bowl (usually she'll at least eat the vitamin chew I put in the bowl, but not even that today -yet) and crying for food.


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## laurief (Jun 22, 2008)

Pepcid AC is extremely bitter, so I'm not at all surprised that your cat is refusing food that you have mixed it into. In fact, I'm surprised that you've managed to get any of the medicated food into her at all. Stop mixing Pepcid into her food. Give it in a Pill Pocket or in an empty gelcap, instead. Also, do NOT give more than 1/4 of a Pepcid AC twice daily - once daily is usually sufficient. But if the Pepcid isn't helping at all, there's no reason to continue giving it.

If I were you, I would go to a health food store and pick up some Slippery Elm Bark capsules or powder. SEB does a very good job of coating and soothing the digestive tract. It may be just what your girl needs to make her GI tract comfortable enough so that she can eat and keep food down.

BTW, canned food that sat out all day on a warm stove top should definitely have been thrown out. 

It is a good idea to warm food to room temp or a little warmer before feeding, since cold food can induce vomiting in a sensitive stomach. Just don't let the food sit out all day and turn rancid.

Laurie


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## cinderflower (Apr 22, 2012)

I just had the Pepcid AC refusal this weekend but fortunately it wasn't necessary.

some pharmacies can compound anti-emetics into fish or poultry flavored drops, although you might not be close to one.

I don't need it right now, but there is a new drug called cerenia that is an anti-emetic, originally given to dogs but is also given to cats. you can get pills or an injection. of course there are contraindications like obstructions and toxic substances, so you should talk to your vet about it but it could be a possibility. my vet is going to give me some to take home just to have around, because I can't get a pill into my cat.

CSU needs picky cats for drug study - The Denver Post

(p.s. I think they made a mistake about it fighting kidney disease, I think they meant the nausea that accompanies it.)


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## Gecko_G (Jul 17, 2013)

laurief said:


> Pepcid AC is extremely bitter, so I'm not at all surprised that your cat is refusing food that you have mixed it into. In fact, I'm surprised that you've managed to get any of the medicated food into her at all. Stop mixing Pepcid into her food. Give it in a Pill Pocket or in an empty gelcap, instead. Also, do NOT give more than 1/4 of a Pepcid AC twice daily - once daily is usually sufficient. But if the Pepcid isn't helping at all, there's no reason to continue giving it.


yikes! I had already decided to stop and not put any on her food last night as after 6 days (3 pills) it hadn't made any difference.



> If I were you, I would go to a health food store and pick up some Slippery Elm Bark capsules or powder. SEB does a very good job of coating and soothing the digestive tract. It may be just what your girl needs to make her GI tract comfortable enough so that she can eat and keep food down.


I doubt the tiny little place in the mall has SEB, but next time I go to the mall I'll look - of course that could be a while since just today my car wouldn't start :evil: - I'm going to have to get it towed and hope its something I can afford to fix. What dosage for SEB?



> BTW, canned food that sat out all day on a warm stove top should definitely have been thrown out.


that's what I was afraid of, I'll be throwing it out (I saw your message before today's feeding but didn't have time then to reply.

Today I'm trying a new brand - 9 Lives and their Super Supper flavor. She ate a little bit of it right way without any prodding so so far it's off to a promising start (of course there have been others that started out well also so we'll see)- she has even ignored the vitamin chew I put in the bowl. She if she'll eat more of it later today and again tomorrow.

If I can just find some canned food she'll consistently eat, I want to try taking her completely off the dry for a week and see if that stops the vomiting.

cinderflower- sounds like you mean like either an apothecary's or something that is a pharmacy only type of place. The only pharmacies I know of in these parts are the one's inside of other stores (like inside Walmart or Walgreens or CVS or whatnot).


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## cinderflower (Apr 22, 2012)

yeah, I get mine from a place in monument which is not all that far from me but they mail it to me. you might see if you find one in your area that will do that and I bet they will.

cerenia comes in pills or shots no matter where you get it, it's just really new and I haven't even tried it yet. it is prescribed a lot for vomiting/nausea when the big causes have already been ruled out.

you can probably get SEB on amazon or iherb at least. I don't know what i'd do without amazon.


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## laurief (Jun 22, 2008)

Gecko_G said:


> yikes! I had already decided to stop and not put any on her food last night as after 6 days (3 pills) it hadn't made any difference.


You should be aware that taking a cat off of an acid blocker like Pepcid can cause a temporary "rebound effect", where the acid stomach upset actually gets worse for a little while.



> I doubt the tiny little place in the mall has SEB, but next time I go to the mall I'll look - of course that could be a while since just today my car wouldn't start :evil: - I'm going to have to get it towed and hope its something I can afford to fix. What dosage for SEB?


As cinderflower noted, you can order SEB online from a variety of sources. As far as dosing is concerned, read the following link:

Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease - Holistic Treatments



> cinderflower- sounds like you mean like either an apothecary's or something that is a pharmacy only type of place. The only pharmacies I know of in these parts are the one's inside of other stores (like inside Walmart or Walgreens or CVS or whatnot).


The compounding pharmacy I use is BCP Pharmacy in Houston, TX. They mail out prescriptions very quickly and offer a variety of forms (flavored chews. flavored liquids, injectibles, etc.).

Laurie


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## Gecko_G (Jul 17, 2013)

laurief said:


> You should be aware that taking a cat off of an acid blocker like Pepcid can cause a temporary "rebound effect", where the acid stomach upset actually gets worse for a little while.


good to know, thanks. 



> As far as dosing is concerned, read the following link:
> 
> Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease - Holistic Treatments


That calls for 350-400mg a day! That seems more like a human size dosage! ie the Famotidine (Pepcid AC) only worked out to 5mg a day.

thanks to both of you for the recomendations to get stuff online - I'm going to keep the SEB in mind as plan B - still want to first try to find a canned food she'll consistently eat to see if it is that she has developed an allergy to the low-allergin dry food by switching to just whatever canned stuff I can find she likes for a while. The first day she readily grazed on the 9 Lives brand stuff (at least over the portion of the day when she wasn't accidently closed up in a cabinet for a good chunk of that day ), 2nd day she hesitantly ate it, and yesterday she eventuall grudgingly finished up the bowl around midnight (and then ate hungrily when I put down dry), and so far today she's ignoring it again. :sad . Even the vitamin/pro-biotic chews seems gradually less interesting to her over time.


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## laurief (Jun 22, 2008)

Gecko_G said:


> That calls for 350-400mg a day! That seems more like a human size dosage! ie the Famotidine (Pepcid AC) only worked out to 5mg a day.


You can't compare recommended doses of two different remedies. That's like comparing an elephant with a guppy. They're both animals, but that's pretty much where the similarity ends. Actually, you don't even have that much similarity between SEB and Pepcid, since SEB is an herbal remedy, and Pepcid is a chemical compound.

Laurie


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Been following this with interest.
Sure hope your girl can start feeling better...
I commend you for not giving up on her!
Wishing you the best!


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## Gecko_G (Jul 17, 2013)

thanks 7cats2dogs. 



laurief said:


> You can't compare recommended doses of two different remedies. That's like comparing an elephant with a guppy. They're both animals, but that's pretty much where the similarity ends. Actually, you don't even have that much similarity between SEB and Pepcid, since SEB is an herbal remedy, and Pepcid is a chemical compound.


True, but I'd be worried about giving her so much of something, especially since I'm hesitant to give her something so sugarry (I've been reading up a bit on it, It's got at least two types of natural saccharine sugars - a simple one and a heavy, complex one), so I just want to make sure that's the correct amount and the auther didn't misteakenly list the human dosage size.


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## laurief (Jun 22, 2008)

Perhaps the following article will help assuage your concerns about SEB:

Slippery Elm for Better Pet Digestion

If you don't want to read the entire page, the *Epilogue I* section at the bottom of the page will answer your dosing questions.

Laurie


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