# What color is my kitty?



## Tobietoes (Sep 7, 2012)

Hey, at least I am not asking which breed. 

First, before I post my pics, let me describe the circumstances of how he came to be. I have an unfolded Scottish Fold named Sneakers. She has a scrunchy face and is only 4 lbs, so the vet suggested we never get her spayed since all our other cats are fixed. Then, my husband brought home a kitten from a cardboard box on the side of the street... he was only about 5 weeks old. We made an appointment to get him fixed at the vet's suggestion of six months. Well, accidents do happen... and I guess he was fertile before then. By the time we took him in to get fixed, Sneakers was showing! She ended up having six kittens, and since she only had five nipples, I helped raise them. All except two were adopted out to loving homes... I kept my two favorite.

Four of them were born with unusual coloring. (Mom is a blue, and dad is a plain old tabby with tiny white toes.) They were born buff colored. As they aged, they began getting point-like markings... noses, paws, and tails grew darker to a light chocolate color. They all had the ticked tabby pattern. As adults, they all have pale turquoise/yellow eyes and a greyish/fawn/chocolate color to their backs and extremities. 

My question is... what color are they?! I took one of the kittens to cat shows as a HHP and the judges couldn't seem to find a consensus. I think he is shaded to some degree and some combination of chocolate silver mink or something similar. I guess dad had to have carried the mink gene, or perhpas momma did and her breeding background wasn't as pure as they thought. Curious minds want to know! 





























Tobie (the cat in question) is next to his dad in this pic. You can see his more mature adult coloring here. He is about five years old now.









Mom









Dad (still as a kitten... he is rather loooong and lanky now).










One of the other littermates (a silver tabby)--I kept her too. Her name is Sophia. She has a darling, Puss-n-Boots face.










More kitten pics to help you see how they changed:

Momma feeding babies:









As they got older, they got darker and more distinct markings (there is a silver ticked tabby inthe background):









Here you can see their tails... their tails were buff colored when they were born.









Adult pics of Tobie:

























Okay genetics geeks... go after it! I promise I will stop posting pics now.


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## jadis (Jul 9, 2011)

I have no answers, but I'm interested to know because I have a foster with the same coloring only short haired. She has silver/blue? lynx points and her body is cream with like a chocolate overlay, and she has light blue eyes.


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## catloverami (Jul 5, 2010)

OK, wild guess here......I say "Tobie" is _Blue Patched Mackeral Tabby_ or _Blue-cream Torbie_ (another way of saying it), tho her body barring is faded you can still see it. A judge would say "faulty" tabby markings. If the undercoat is white she could be _Blue-cream Torbie Smoke_.
Kitty on the stairs and as an adult below (I'm assuming same one?) I say _Seal Lynxpoint _because of the dark facial markings and backs of ears, tho can't see the barring on the "points" of the legs with her back facing. That's my best guess.


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## catloverami (Jul 5, 2010)

You've really got the rainbow....with the dilute (blue) gene as well as the silver gene in there as evidenced by having the silver tabbies, so I suspect that Dad isn't a "plain old tabby" but carried the silver gene, even his color is a bit suspect.


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## Tobietoes (Sep 7, 2012)

You must post pictures for comparison! 

I am trying to read up on the differences between the Siamese gene and mink gene and such... can one even supposedly get a cat of that color without one of the parents showing it? To get mink, it is a combo gene of the Siamese gene and the solid Burmese gene... so how did Tobie end up with that color? Maybe he is more of a solid color, but why are his eyes slightly aqua? Can aqua eyes come with the Burmese gene too? I have a solid sable Burmese and her eyes are gold. I am so confused... I can see why the judges couldn't agree on his color.

Come help us out, genetics experts!


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## Tobietoes (Sep 7, 2012)

catloverami said:


> OK, wild guess here......I say "Tobie" is _Blue Patched Mackeral Tabby_ or _Blue-cream Torbie_ (another way of saying it), tho her body barring is faded you can still see it. A judge would say "faulty" tabby markings. If the undercoat is white she could be _Blue-cream Torbie Smoke_.
> Kitty on the stairs and as an adult below (I'm assuming same one?) I say _Seal Lynxpoint _because of the dark facial markings and backs of ears, tho can't see the barring on the "points" of the legs with her back facing. That's my best guess.


All of those pics, except for the shorthaired one, are the same cat! You understand my confusion...LOL 

His coat is shaded with a white undercoat. There really isn't any barring. You can see the ticked pattern in the other kittens from the litter. Some of the judges thought he was a chocolate silver lynx point, but mom and dad weren't even close to that so I doubt it. I am tempted to give up, but am hoping someone can confirm that I think he has the mink or solid gene rather than the full pointed gene since he got a nice fawn coat on his back at an early age?

Another puzzling thing is his paws never really got darker than the rest of his body... but his tail, head, and ears did. Does that point to maybe a solid Burmese color with shading, or a mink color? Or is it just because he has long hair that he appears shaded? His tail looks shaded all around, with even the dark hairs being half white from the base.


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## Tobietoes (Sep 7, 2012)

BTW, I do agree he is a blue lynx of some sort... he was not as apparently blue when he was younger. And the "blue" has seemed to turn into a darker sable-like color, so then again, who knows! His coat may appear barred in some of the pics, but it is just the white undercoat and shading showing through. 

So I guess the main mystery left is since he doesn't appear to have the full pointed Siamese gene, is it possible that he is a mink or solid? And how did that happen if mom and dad weren't pointed at all?


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## minikin44 (Aug 25, 2012)

He's gorgeous and so are the other babies  I have no idea what color he is though... haha


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## spotty cats (Sep 23, 2011)

Silver isn't carried, you need a silver parent to produce silver kittens. 

Tobie looks blue with lots of rufousing on the body in the adult pics. Mum looks more like a Burmese than a Scottish Shorthair (as we call them here)


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## spotty cats (Sep 23, 2011)

Also, both need to carry the long hair gene to produce long haired kittens. Since mum is a pedigree cat, it'll be easy for you to determine where the long hair comes from, and also what colours she may be carrying to contribute to the kittens colours.


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## crazyismycat (Feb 7, 2012)

Those are lovely cats you have!!!!


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## crazyismycat (Feb 7, 2012)

If I have a half Siamese cat. He's black and white. And a DLH torbie. What kind of kittens would they produce?? The father of my half Siamese (Eustache) was a Persian mix long haired white and gray cat. Whereas my torbie's mom was a tabby kitty. In her litter the mom had one torbie. ( my Moffat ) one male tabby and one long haired gray kitty and one short hair gray kitty. 

Signed : just curious 



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## Tobietoes (Sep 7, 2012)

spotty cats said:


> Silver isn't carried, you need a silver parent to produce silver kittens.
> 
> Tobie looks blue with lots of rufousing on the body in the adult pics. Mum looks more like a Burmese than a Scottish Shorthair (as we call them here)


Interesting... so I guess dad really is a silver tabby with a lot of rufousing too. Sophia barely has any rufousing and her silver color is very pure. Ziggy really does look like a typical tabby in person... but I'll have to go with what you say. Crazy!

And on Sneakers looking Burmese... I kind of agree. She came from cattery that also bred Burmese and I wonder if her line got tainted a few generations back. I saw her mom and dad and they were more typical Scottish fold-looking. You can see my Burmese kitty from the same cattery in my Meet My Kitty thread.  Sneaker's face is a little strange-looking to me and since she is so small, I think she maybe has some sort of kitty version of a dwarf gene which may contribute to her looking Burmese. Her paws are tiny, her tongue is tiny, her bones are tiny, and ever her meow is tiny. She still sounds like a kitten! Her brothers and sisters were all bigger than her and had more typical, open expressions like the Scottish Folds in the shows.

So what about the mink or solid Burmese gene? How does that have to come about? If Sneakers does have a Burmese in her line, that might explain where Tobie's color came from. It seems like the mink/solid genes are pretty rare in the moggie population, but not the Siamese gene... so maybe he carried the Siamese and she carried the Burmese gene, and together they produced mink kittens?


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## Tobietoes (Sep 7, 2012)

Okay... so I am reading up on the silver gene. One site says that an apparent brown tabby who is genetically silver will have white roots in their coat. Ziggy doesn't. But I guess it has to be since everyone is agreeing that one of the parents must be genetically silver! 

As for the long hair, yes, Sneaker's dad had long hair. There are few solids in her line... lots of calico and torbies with white (at least on the parents, I don't know what her brothers and sisters from generations back look like). The cattery is no longer in business. She also bred Bombays. Interestingly, when I got my Burmese from her, she had a newer litter with a kitten with Tobie's coloring when he was born. She was *very* upset and said that the line was tainted on the side of the stud she bred to... she wanted me to take it, but I was set on a brown cat. I am wishing now I had taken this other little kitten too, just to see what color she was when she was full grown! That was her last litter of kittens. I guess she decided her lines were now tainted all around and she gave up. She had several show stopping Burmese and Scottish Folds back in 80s and 90s, so her prime breeding season had passed.


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## Tobietoes (Sep 7, 2012)

Hmm.. there seems to be some controversy over the silver gene. One site said that some breeders maintain that there are two genes that produce silver cats, one of them being recessive to solid black. So in that case, maybe Sneakers carried the silver gene and it is not exhibited because of her solid dilute black coloring...


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## Tobietoes (Sep 7, 2012)

Here is Ziggy (dad) as a kitten. He certainly doesn't look silver to me... He still has the golden color on his belly and elsewhere. Do you guys have any examples of apparently brown cats that are actually silver?


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## Tobietoes (Sep 7, 2012)

SILVER AND GOLD: SMOKE, SHADED AND TIPPED CATS

There is a portion in that article about a possible recessive silver gene in cats.

As an aside, I love that site... messybeast.com. It has a lot of interesting info on a lot of cat topics!

After scouring the internet, I find it more likely that Sneakers somehow carried a form of the silver gene and it was masked by her solid color. I haven't found anything mentioning if the dilute gene affects silver expression in offspring on in the cat itself, but I suspect that they are independent. One of her siblings was a silver (forgot to mention that, she was already taken so I didn't get a picture of her at the breeder's). Ziggy just doesn't have any white base hairs anywhere... his entire belly is golden and the base of his hairs all over his coat are black, fading to golden, and then back to black. I guess Sneakers had all sorts of genes in her to surprise us with!


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## Tobietoes (Sep 7, 2012)

Actually, I lied... here are the pics of the Sneakers' siblings. 




























None of the kittens in that litter had folded ears, even though the daddy did.


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## spotty cats (Sep 23, 2011)

Is mum actually a blue smoke?


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## Tobietoes (Sep 7, 2012)

You are onto something! I think so. Although she doesn't appear to be a smoke at first glance, if you separate her fur, you can see how it is a lighter at the base. She is a very poor smoke. I guess that would solve the mystery!


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## Tobietoes (Sep 7, 2012)

Cat World: College Of Cat Genetics - Part 2

This article would seem to confirm what you are suggesting. 

Do you have any opinions on how Tobie got the mink or solid Burmese gene, and which one he is? I know he has one of those genes because his eyes reflect orange in pictures and they are slightly turquoise/aqua, and because he was born all buff and developed the blue ticked lynx points as he aged, as did his siblings.


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## Jacq (May 17, 2012)

Hahaha I love the faces on Sneaker's sibs.

Grumpy...

Grumpy...

DERP.

haha


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## Tobietoes (Sep 7, 2012)

Heh heh... yes, and Sneakers fits right in. When the stepkids visit, they ask me why Sneakers is always so mad. I have to explain it is just her face. Now, they go around saying "It's just my face" when one of them is mad. LOL


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## spotty cats (Sep 23, 2011)

Low grade smoke perhaps, sounds like some odd things going on with the breeders cats

I don't know much about the Burmese genes or minks, I do breed silvers though


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## Tobietoes (Sep 7, 2012)

Yeah. Very odd. From what I understand, for two non-pointed cats to produce pointed babies (mink, Burmese, or otherwise) both had to carry some version of the pointed genes recessively.

That means that Sneakers carried a pointed gene... and Scottish Folds are NEVER pointed in any way, in any line, in any registry! Oh well... I love them anyway. And her little grumpy face makes me smile. 

I will definitely be more careful about the breeder I choose next time around. I chose this one because she was the closest Burmese breeder geographically. Burmese are getting harder to find in the midwest (they are few and far between at the shows in my area), and I don't know where I'll get my next one... I definitely want more Burmeses!!!


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## spotty cats (Sep 23, 2011)

Oh, we have pointed Scottish here since they are outcrossed to British and Brits come in points so all colours are the same all in Scotrish Folds & Shorthairs 

Will ask a friend to look over this thread and see if she can offer anything


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## Tobietoes (Sep 7, 2012)

Oh... interesting. I was just going by what I have seen in shows here in the US. It would make sense the gene is in there way back somewhere, but not in Sneakers' supposed line as far back as the breeder gave me.

Thanks for letting your friend know! I'm still very curious about how the kittens got the coats they did. I know nothing about cat genetics... just the random reading I've done, which I surely have misunderstood.


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## spotty cats (Sep 23, 2011)

Have you got photos of Tobie now, in natural lighting showing his full body and eye colour?

I remember him from years ago on another site, when he was being shown.


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## Tobietoes (Sep 7, 2012)

Just the ones I have posted on here... the last pics I posted here are from this year. The last one I posted is true to his eye color and body color, however, his blue appears more black or seal, not as grey as a blue cat usually is. Hopefully they are good enough! If not, I will get some more pics tomorrow (fiance has the phone for out of town business trip today, and we share the cell phone since he works from home most of the time).

That is kind of embarassing you remember me. Sorry to bore you with redundant questions and pictures! LOL No one could agree on his color there either.


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