# Feral Cat in Korea: What would you do? (Advice Please)



## Myulchee

Hello all,
*I've just adopted a feral or semi-feral cat.* Her name is Myul-Chee (which means 'Sardine' in Korean). I'm having trouble with her and would love any advice. It's been a month and a half and it's been an up and down time for all of us. 

We tried a TNR but failed the first time as she escaped the trap and hurt her leg. This ruined her trust in us somewhat but she'd still come around for food, and we trapped her the next week. Our plan was to do TNR, shots, leg repair/checkup, and then have her heal at our home for a few days.
We found out that she had already been fixed! So this led us to think she was maybe a pet at some point, so we decided to try and adopt her or at least see how she'd adjust with us. 

One detail is that the vets let her escape the cage and had to hunt her down again inside, taking 4 guys to capture her. She ran up the wall and hissed at them apparently. I'm sure this was a horrible experience for her, as she is scared of humans more than ever now, even my girlfriend and I. I'm pretty sure they had to manhandle her and roughed her up a bit. When we arrived back at the vet, they had taped her feet up 'for our safety' but I told them to take it off her while she was still asleep.

So now she acts very scared and panicky whenever we are near, and she really doesn't want to be around us, even though she used to want to be around us before we trapped her, although we've never been able to pet her. 
She's always been skittish, but she's worse than ever now. 

She has a small covered balcony with a cat tower and lots of plants and a covered house, but she only comes inside when we are asleep. Other than that she hides in her house or under some linoleum flooring she digs up. The balcony is narrow, so she might feel cornered whenever we go out there to feed her/check her. She can usually come inside if she wants, but she only does it at night when I'm sleeping. I live in a fairly small apartment so even that would be a big adjustment for her. 

We've now been able to touch her while she's under the linoleum, petting her side. She just freezes, but sometimes suddenly panics and runs into the house to hide. She's tried to escape out the window twice after the failed pet sessions, so we've backed off a bit. 

*We just want her to be happy and not be scared of us.* We just don't know how to communicate that to her. I never stare at her directly, but when I see her, the look in her eyes is of fear and 'don't come any closer'. She doesn't have an aggressive nature, but the look in her eyes lately is not one you'd want to mess with. 

She eats like a queen, uses the litter box, and is very healthy, but we worry about her emotional state. We know she may never be a lap cat, but we want a civil, comfortable relationship with her where she can be happy. *Any advice or further questions for details would be appreciated. *

Some optional background: For the last year I had been working and living in an education center in Seoul, South Korea. It is a nice campus with lots of trees and forest around, and a few feral cats hanging around the dorm and cafeteria trash areas from time to time. 
One of them would sit on the steps and watch people walk by, so I started to feed it whenever I walked by. For the last year my girlfriend and I would make noise to call her and she'd come to eat. She would tolerate us around her area, but never too close. Her safe distance was always about 5 yards or so. Any closer and she'd usually back away. Gradually she got friendlier, even greeting us with meows occasionally and coming much closer. And she'd follow us around to our dorm, even after she ate, and just hang around outside the door. We always thought about adopting her but figured it was impossible as we couldn't pet her and she was so skittish. But she was a total loner and it seemed she liked just hanging around us, even if she didn't interact much. The other cats didn't really accept her and would chase her from the trash area (food source) so we took pity on her, feeding her lots of treats and cat food whenever we saw her (every few days).


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## BotanyBlack

Congrats on the new companion. And you have to remember it has ONLY been a month and a half. Giving her recent trauma with the vet handling, I would definitely give her time. This is not going to be a fast fix. I would give her a safe hiding spot. Put a carrier/crate/storage box out in her area with the front covered most of the way so she has an enclosed, dark, "cave" she can feel secure in and feels like you can't see her (even if you can). when feeding her squat or sit to bring yourself down to her level thus being less threatening. 

don't pet her immediately as she get used to the new space. sit near her space with a book, watch tv, bring your laptop, or talk on the phone. Let her see you move about normally (maybe a bit slower), talk to her about your day, toss her treats occasionally if she is watching you calmly.

If you can get one try a feliway collar on her to help calm her. 

Basically go slow, and easy. And give her time. Let her explore on her own time. 

I wish you luck and I am sure others will give you ideas I missed.


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## librarychick

First things first, thanks for helping this poor kitty and keeping her best interest at heart!

When I used to feed a colony how I interacted with the cars was up to them mostly. I found a few tricks that helped a ton, and it got to the point that I could briefly touch most of them.

I don't know if you've heard of this, but we do love blinkies with our cats. This helps build trust, and can be one of the best ways to interact with a cat you can't touch. The first step is not to stare at the cat. Keeping that in mind, look at her then slowly blink your eyes. My colony cats liked it best when I made my whole face sleepy and held my eyes shut for a bit. Basically pretend you're about to fall asleep. This shows the cat that you trust them enough to look away from them, a big message for a scared kitty.

It's very likely that she's quite food motivated, so use that to your advantage. If you're feeding dry food leave that with her all the time, and use wet food (or something yummy like chicken) for this. Put the yummy food on a plate or in her bowl, take it out to her. Put it just outside her hiding spot, then go as far away as you can while still being in her room (the other side of the patio for example), sit down facing away from her. Bring a book, or something else quiet you can do. Ignore her entirely. Eventually she'll want the food, and since you are being as nonthreatening as possible (not looking, sirting still and quiet) shell go ahead and eat. If you do this regularly shell start thinking of you as a good thing, the non-stressful bringer of yummies!

This will go slowly, but be patient. I used to sit outside with my outside cats for an hour each day, reading and ignoring them. They LOVE being ignored. It makes them feel safe.

The biggest tip I can give you is to go at her pace. There will come a day when you go out with the yummy food, and she'll stick her head out from her hiding spot, then another where she'll meet you at the door...maybe eventually shell sniff you, or let you touch her. With ferals you have to notice and celebrate the small steps, because to the cat they are huge signs of trust.


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## Whaler

BotanyBlack and librarychick summed up pretty much any advice i could offer.

i will stress one thing that librarychick mentioned, go at her pace. my former feral was in a dog cage for over 4 months before i felt she could be let out and that was after i had spent a significant amount of "bonding time" with her while she was still a member of my colony.

keep it up, you are doing a wonderful thing and the rewards of your work will be so very worth the time and effort.


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## Myulchee

Thanks so far for the replies! We'll try to slow the process down a bit, but it's hard sometimes. Here's my attempt at a photo upload of her...








If the image doesn't work, you can see her at the link below:
Let me know what you think of her! We'd like to think her nice winter coat is from us feeding her so well!

?????1 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Also, does anyone think getting a kitten for her to play with is a good idea or a bad one? A friend mentioned it. The apartment isn't that big but it's doable. I just don't want to stress her more, but on the other hand I've read that it can brighten her spirits and she'll see the kitten trusting us, and maybe come out of her shell. On the downside, maybe she wouldn't bond with us much after that, or even worse, attack the kitten and stress out even more? If we did get one, would a female kitten be better? Not really wanting a male. Not set on it, but any more ideas?


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## Myulchee

Having trouble posting pics from Flickr. Here's another try. Still new to Flickr...







[/url]
멸치1 by MJS-7, on Flickr[/IMG]


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## librarychick

Another cat might be a good idea at some point, but not too young. If you got a very young kitten (under 4-5 months) there's a risk that the kitten bonds to her very strongly and then she would teach it to be scared of you...rather than it teaching her that you are nice.

She's very sweet looking, and that lovely thick coat looks great!

Go slow with her, it'll be worth it in the long run!


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## Myulchee

Good news! 
I tried the blinking/sleepy/ignoring look on her as per the advice. It worked wonders! Instead of instantly running and hiding, she stayed out on the balcony and scratched on her cat tower, stretched, and rubbed her face on it, marking it. 
This was the FIRST TIME I actually thought she might be comfortable and happy here at the apartment. Granted, I could only watch from behind the glass door of the balcony but it's much better than only seeing her run away on sight!

Also, does anyone have any experience with Feliway on ferals? I'm thinking of ordering some from the U.S.


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## shan841

great news! glad she is feeling more comfortable. I have heard feliway works great with ferals, allthough I can't speak from personal experience about that.


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## Myulchee

Yeah, maybe we'll try feliway soon. 

Also, if we do get a kitten, would it be better to match her with a boy or a girl kitten? Which is less likely to be problematic? 

I'd rather not get a boy cat, as it might try to be dominant later, or spray...


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## Myulchee

UPDATE:
Well, Myulchee had a bad day. All she's been doing is hiding under some linoleum flooring in the balcony closet. Seems like a depressing existence. She eats in secret and immediately goes back under the floor.

I was sitting out there with my laptop, and she poked her head out, but unfortunately, I accidentally looked over at her (instead of acting aloof or blinking) and she shot back under the flooring, as if scared to death of me.

My girlfriend went to try to pet her today, and Myulchee SPAT at her! Almost a surprised hiss and snap all at once. Granted, my girlfriend put her hand under the flooring towards her, but Myulchee is in a panic now and didn't eat any food all day. 

I'm reading stories on here about ferals, and many of them seem much more social than Myulchee. For example, some meow or let people pet them. But Myulchee was always skittish, never let us pet her, and was very hot and cold, sometimes coming, other times leaving. She would follow us sometimes, and a few times looked at us happily and put her tail up, but she's so sensitive. 

Has anyone ever had a feral this bad? And did it ever come round to being tame? We love her and spoil her food wise, but at the same time it's challenging and an emotional roller coaster ride. What can we expect and are we just expecting too much?


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## librarychick

You need to go slower! The more stressed she is the less she's going to settle in. To be honest you should just pretend she doesn't exist, don't look at her ever, don't try to interact with her, etc. Put food out, clean her litter box, but that's it. The more you try to force the issue the worse shell get. 

You girlfriend made her feel trapped when she tried to pet her, that alone set you back a few days. The ferals you have been reading about have probably either lived with people at some point, or known their carer for years. True ferals are wild animals. They want nothing to do with people and expect us to act like predators. This is much closer to where your girl is, when you look at her or try to touch her she thinks you're trying to eat her.

To sum it up: GO SLOWER! she might never get to where you want, but then again she might come around with time. Either way she's not going to change at all unless it's at her pace.


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## Whaler

once again i have to agree with librarychick, go slower.

definitely to soon to try and touch/pet her. when i socialized pretty girl i had her in a dog cage that i set up in the back of my work and spent as much time as i could with her, including staying at night until at least 9:00 pm. i did not even try to touch her for well over a month, and when i finally did it was on her terms - she was trusting me enough to allow a pet. she still was in the dog cage for nearly 3 more months until i let her out to explore her "strange new world".

with the ferals in my colony yes, i can pet them. some actually seek out the loving that i offer, while some only allow a rub while eating. the thing to keep in mind is that the cats in my colony have known me for over 2 years. with seeing me 7 days a week, at least twice a day for that long they have developed a sense of trust with me. the 2 that allow me to pet/rub them (one even will curl up on my lap) have known me almost their entire life, when they arrived they were only about 6 months old. the others took much more time, one of them wouldn't even eat if was was within 50 feet for nearly a year.

remember, be patient, let her dictate what to do and how soon to do it.

you are doing a wonderful thing, thank you!


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## Myulchee

librarychick said:


> You need to go slower! The more stressed she is the less she's going to settle in. To be honest you should just pretend she doesn't exist, don't look at her ever, don't try to interact with her, etc. Put food out, clean her litter box, but that's it. The more you try to force the issue the worse shell get.
> 
> ...


Yeah, that's good advice, and I'll try to follow it more. I agree that's where Myulchee is now, offering zero signs that she'd like to be pet or even have me look at her. It's back to ignoring her, as hard as that is. 

The sad thing is, she used to be fine with us. Coming within 6-12 feet and just sitting next to us and grooming after we fed her, then following us when we left. But since the trapping and vet disaster (where they let her escape and manhandled her and taped her up), she seems petrified of humans. I guess the only way is to ignore for now.

I did read somewhere (kitty boot camp sticky on ferals?) that you cannot let the cat set the terms. You have to push limits and then back off. Well, that's what we were thinking. But maybe for Myulchee that's a bit too much for now...

Although...when I leave food out, I usually make a clicking noise so she knows she's being fed. And I say her name in a high voice. Hopefully that's not too much for her...


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## catloverami

Her traumatic time at the vet, getting chased and caught and as you say, likely "manhandled" unfortunately has set her waay back from any progress little progress she made and reinforced any contact with humans as not being pleasant and very frightful for her. I know this won't be a popular suggestion, but since she's already spayed, if I was in your situation I would consider seriously to release her back to where you found her. imo she's just been too traumatized and would be happier being feral.


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## LaurulFeatherCat

Give her time. That is the best thing you can do. Let her pick when she will do things. Let her make all the moves. I know it is hard to keep your hands off your new pet, but it is the only way to "tame" a feral cat. Look at her, but don't stare. Say hello in a neutral toned voice. Tell her she is beautiful, that she is wonderful and such a wonderful kitty... Give treats when you see her. Lots of treats. Always acknowledge her presence when you enter a room, even if it is just by saying her name and telling her she is wonderful. That is the key. Time. Let them make the moves and she will be fine. I would not recommend getting another cat for at least four to six months and then I would get a three month old female or a two year old neutered male. Make sure the new cat is tame when you get them.


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## Myulchee

catloverami said:


> Her traumatic time at the vet, getting chased and caught and as you say, likely "manhandled" unfortunately has set her waay back from any progress little progress she made and reinforced any contact with humans as not being pleasant and very frightful for her. I know this won't be a popular suggestion, but since she's already spayed, if I was in your situation I would consid*er seriously to release her back to where you found her. imo she's just been too traumatized and would be happier being feral.*


To be honest, this goes through my head quite a bit and I have considered it. If Myulchee seemed happier or even neutral, I'd never release her, but if she's been that traumatized, sometimes I wonder too if she wouldn't be happier just away from humans. I want HER to be happy, that's the most important factor.

BUT...for now, I'll give her more time and see if she starts to show any more signs of mellowing out. She does get awesome food, and seems to like her jungle balcony with a view and her kitty tower. I witnessed her rubbing and scratching on it before when she couldn't really see me through the sliding door. Of course, when I come home, it's straight under the linoleum flooring for her.

One reason I'm very reluctant to let her go in the same place is because I don't know how much food she would get if I'm not around. I don't live on that campus where I found her anymore, and I'm leaving Korea for good at the end of the year, so after that she'd be totally on her own. 

The campus is potentially an ok place for ferals; lots of trees and rocks and a pond with a water overflow hole. 
BUT there are at least two big Korean Jindo dogs that roam the area and chase the cats up trees and they mean business. The owners don't lock them up despite calls to animal services. All it would take is for one cat to not notice them in time and it's game over if they can't get up a tree. One slip up could be the last.
Other dangers/issues: 
-Maintenance men on the campus don't like the cats.
- If anyone complains about cats, they might "get rid of them". Cats are not very popular animals in Korea and are sometimes seen as unlucky, so I think the clock is ticking for any cat on that campus. 
-For example, if one feral is seen with any health problem, they'd probably round them all up and kill them. Not many animal pounds here anyway.
- The other ferals there don't like Myulchee. She's at the bottom of the pecking order and they chase her from the best feeding areas (i.e. near the cafeteria). 
-If anyone actually does feed the cats on campus (I doubt it), Myulchee would be the last to be fed as she is the most skittish of people. The other ferals are rather fearless and bully her out of her food even if people would feed them. 

And I see it as a complex moral issue. Now that I have her and am feeding her, I feel strange about dumping her off. It would feel like abandonment. And even though she doesn't give much back, I love her and am happy to feed her and care for her. 

Again, I want HER to be happy. For now it may still be in its test phase and I hope she comes around somehow. But it's harder than I thought and I can't work miracles. I'm really good with animals and grew up with cats so I feel I know what they need, but this is definitely an extreme case. If she can eventually get back to the cat she used to be...which is skittish and aloof but semi trusting, that's fine by me. But I don't want her to be miserable but that's what she seems like lately.


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## Myulchee

MAJOR UPDATE:
Myul-chee has made some minor progress! AND we got a new kitten to try to make Myul-chee more comfortable. Very mixed results so far. Input or advice appreciated. Details below:

Went with some of the advice on here and started just ignoring Myul-chee and feeding her, instead of trying to give her attention and pet her. She comes in almost every night for food while I'm asleep (I leave a food bowl out) but NEVER wants to be seen. 

We got a two month old calico female kitten. Her mom was a stray but is now very tame. The kitten's name is Gong-chee. She was the runt of the litter and the other kittens wouldn't play with her, so we thought she might be docile and non-dominant and perhaps a good friend for Myul-chee. 

Gong-chee the kitten adjusted very well to the apartment and is very tame now, and has a very wild, playful streak. She's very adventurous and hyper. So far this hasn't worked out so well. The two cats can coexist, but Myul-chee hisses at the kitten a bit. The introduction went ok (hissing but no attack) and they can be on the balcony together. Myul-chee is interested in the kitten, and it made her come out of hiding a bit, so she could check it out and monitor it. 

The kitten is hyper and plays on Myul-chee's house and sometimes pounces on her hiding place under the soft linoleum floor, which causes the occasional hissy fit, but we don't watch it, we just hear it. We don't want to watch and stress Myul-chee even more (better to let them work it out I figured). The kitten has gone under the flooring too and in her mini-house, so they have been very close without fighting. 

Myul-chee has been coming out from hiding to enjoy the balcony occasionally. Looking outside, grooming, stretching... but only with the sliding glass door closed so she feels safe, and only for a few minutes! I lure her out sometimes with a tuna can, and she eats in ecstasy and grooms and then hides again, but at least I can see her once in a while. She still doesn't like being looked at so I'm careful about that. 

If I open the glass door she always hides again, but once in a while peeks her head out to look at me for a minute. The huge step is.... I can now sit out on the balcony with a book, feed her in her closet, and she eats in front of me, about 4 feet away! She is partially hidden by the plants, but at least she is trusting enough to eat near me now (like she did before we trapped her). 

As for the kitten (Gong-chee), she is very loving but growing fast. She isn't afraid of anything, and she recently ran full speed into Myul-chee's house, causing a fight that she quickly lost. But didn't really learn her lesson, and now she raises her back at Myul-chee in a threatening manner, and when Myul-chee sees her through the glass doors she goes and hides again. It seems she doesn't really like her much. 

I don't want to create any jealousy or dispute, so does anyone have any strategic advice here? I don't want to rush anything of course, but now there are two problems to solve. Getting Myul-chee accustomed to humans, and the kitten as well. Yes, overall she's doing better, but I sense that the kitten issue will be growing in the future, and I want Myul-chee to feel she also has the run of the house so she can someday become a normal cat, and not just a wild cat on the balcony who feels shut out from everything...


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## Jacq

It sounds like things are actually going really well! Good luck and good job with all the work and effort you've put in. Even with the spats, it does sound like Gong-chee is being a pretty good go-between for you guys.

I don't have any advice really, and others here are more knowledgeable. I know the rescue here uses what's called a "petting stick" to get their ferals more used to human touches, scraches, and pats. It's something soft like a dish rage or old t-shirt wrapped around a stick like a broom handle. It puts distance between you but still lets you interact. Maybe something like that would help? I mean, I'm not advocaing poking her in her safe house or anything, but while she's a few feet from you and comfy it might help.


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## hoofmaiden

Sounds like you're on the right track.  It will just take time. Assuming that she was a pet before . . . since then she has a long history of not trusting humans--she will have to learn to trust again and that doesn't come overnight.

Best thing you can do is make sure that SHE comes to YOU (not the other way around), no matter how long it takes. My cat Lincoln was a confirmed biter when I adopted him from the shelter--I simply NEVER reached out to pet him, EVER, for the first year at least. He had to come to me. If he came to me and specifically asked, I petted him only 1-2 strokes and then stopped, b/c more than that triggered him. He would bite and run (I'm 100% sure that he had been played w/ roughly as a kitten and then, when he grew up and it wasn't "cute" anymore he was punished for what used to be OK and he learned to bite first and ask questions later), so the key was to not trigger the behavior.

Eventually he started sitting on my lap--I made a lap inviting looking and he came and lay down. I didn't put a hand on him, EVER, for many months. Our bonding was lap-sitting. Eventually I would pet him occasionally just a few strokes. 

Important: When I messed up and triggered a bite I never punished him. I just moaned and groaned and got past it. Only happened a few times but I could tell he was surprised that I didn't attack him. He learned from that.

As time went on he trusted me more and more. When he passed away 2 years ago from mammary cancer (very aggressive in male cats--his was caused by being given Depo Provera at the shelter 7 years prior for his biting) he was the picture of a perfect companion. He loved and trusted me and we had an extra special bond b/c of how much we both had to endure to get there.


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## hoofmaiden

Adding a kitten probably wasn't the best idea. IMO a young adult male (neutered) would have been a better choice--most adult cats are NOT really that amused by kittens, as you can see. If one MUST adopt a kitten, adopting 2 is a better choice as they will play w/ each other instead of bothering the adult cat.

You should play with the kitten a LOT (using an interactive toy, not your hands, of course!) to tire her out. Try to do this 4-5 times a day, and always before bedtime. This will make things easier on you AND on Myul-chee.


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## Jacq

hoofmaiden said:


> his was caused by being given Depo Provera at the shelter 7 years prior for his biting


Whaaaaaaat?! That's crazy. I was on that for birth control for a year (until I realized that it was making me, er, not have any need for BC) and I can't imagine why it would be given to a boy cat. That's so weird. I wonder what it did for _my_ moods if it's used as aggression control in cats. :fistshake:


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## Myulchee

Some photos of the two girls...







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photo by MJS-7, on Flickr[/IMG]








[/url]
photo by MJS-7, on Flickr[/IMG]








[/url]
photo by MJS-7, on Flickr[/IMG]


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## Myulchee

hoofmaiden said:


> Adding a kitten probably wasn't the best idea.


Yeah, true. maybe it wasn't. It was one of those ideas that sounded good beforehand. I think it was a mix of us being desperate to try something to break Myul-chee out of her rut, and wanting to interact with a cat. The girfriend found a litter online that needed homes and we got all soft. And she was pretty sold on the idea and I eventually folded and decided to go "look" at a kitten. Well, we did more than just look. 

The day after we got the kitty, I thought, "What the heck was I thinking?" But by day three the bonding started and now she's definitely part of the family, even if she is a little troublemaker so far... she's very smart and healthy and energetic, but has a very sweet and needy side that's hard to say no to, when she cuddles around your neck in bed and starts purring.

But ideally I wanted a cat friend for Myul-chee. That was the ultimate goal. But it seems the cats decide. Not us. Still, I really hope we can make things work...

Interesting story about Lincoln by the way. I have no idea if Myul-chee is a biter as we're waaaaay far off from the petting stage. Someone mentioned a petting stick, but she'd run from that in an instant. VERY skittish cat, who seems to want little or nothing to do with people. If she ever was a pet in her past, it seems she suffered some mistreatment as well. She's a complete mystery so far...


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## Saly

*hello,*

I have an outside kitty that sounds very much like yours. She comes running to me, but to about 4 ft. She always stays around the yard, and when we are outside, it doesn't bother her at all. I cannot touch her though and don't try to. What I do is sit down with my back facing her, talk to her, and when I do look at her it is with the "sleepy" eyes. She really responds to those kind of eyes, this means you aren't threatening her. She has come a long way in the past few months, rolls around on the ground in front of me, does the happy feet, always comes running when I call her with food or without. But she is a long way from petting also. I will let her come to me at her own pace, not to try until she is ready, I will not reach for her. I agree, a petting stick would scare the heck out of her! I am going to take her in, I have made a room for her with nice cat trees, screen door so she can see us, and I am hoping eventually, however long it takes, she will come around. I also have another 15 yr. old cat, will keept them separated, until they are able to tolerate one another!
I would just keep on doing what you are doing with your cat, but let her go at her own pace, I don't think you can force these things!
Sally


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## Arianwen

I've recently bee using feliway and if it works, it works! Odd comment, I know but it has so chilled my semi-feral that she is like an ageing hippy (bit like me!) but has had no effect on the abandoned mother cat yet.


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## Myulchee

Saly said:


> I have an outside kitty that sounds very much like yours. She comes running to me, but to about 4 ft. She always stays around the yard, and when we are outside, it doesn't bother her at all. I cannot touch her though and don't try to. What I do is sit down with my back facing her, talk to her, and when I do look at her it is with the "sleepy" eyes. She really responds to those kind of eyes, this means you aren't threatening her. She has come a long way in the past few months, rolls around on the ground in front of me, does the happy feet, always comes running when I call her with food or without. But she is a long way from petting also. I will let her come to me at her own pace, not to try until she is ready, I will not reach for her. I agree, a petting stick would scare the heck out of her! I am going to take her in, I have made a room for her with nice cat trees, screen door so she can see us, and I am hoping eventually, however long it takes, she will come around. I also have another 15 yr. old cat, will keept them separated, until they are able to tolerate one another!
> I would just keep on doing what you are doing with your cat, but let her go at her own pace, I don't think you can force these things!
> Sally


Thanks. Your outside kitty sounds a lot friendlier than Myul-chee was, so it could work out well for you. One thing I'd be careful of is the transition to going inside. How you do it probably matters a lot, as we saw a major change in Myul-chee for the worse after putting her inside. We couldn't touch her beforehand at all and used a trap, so hopefully you can make a stronger bond than we did before you try to make that transition.


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## Myulchee

Arianwen said:


> I've recently bee using feliway and if it works, it works! Odd comment, I know but it has so chilled my semi-feral that she is like an ageing hippy (bit like me!) but has had no effect on the abandoned mother cat yet.


Yes, I use it liberally and it does have an effect. I'm trying to combine it with snacks so that I can lure her out of her closet more and more. A quick spray, the snack noise, and then back off and wait for her to eat. Works most of the time. 
I wonder if there is a stronger cat mood enhancer drug/spray out there. In this case I'd definitely use it.


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## catloverami

After your explained the outside circumstances where Myulchee lived, I agree that it would not be to her benefit to release her back to the same place. Just keep on doing what you are doing now and likely she will surprise you one day and decide to be friends. Catnip also has a calming effect, so give her some to nibble and also rubbed on toys. Good luck!


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## Saly

*hello,*

When I do bring her in (which I plan on in 4 - 5 weeks), I do expect a change for the worse. I expect her to go back to hiding, and not coming near me. Hopefully as she adjusts, she will come back to at least trusting me, so she can come within a few feet of me. I plan on giving her all the time she needs, I pray that I will have the patience and courage to get her thought this, I cannot go through another winter of watching her outside with snow falling on her in 10 degree weather!
Sally


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## Myulchee

Saly said:


> ... I cannot go through another winter of watching her outside with snow falling on her in 10 degree weather!
> Sally


Yeah, this was a big factor in my decision to take her in as well. The winters here are awful. Whenever a week or more would go by without seeing her, I always feared the worst.

And to make it even worse, in the snow you could see the cat tracks, AND also the tracks of the two large stray dogs in pursuit. You couldn't just leave random food out for her, as it would lure the dogs to that spot. 

I'm hoping when winter comes again, she'll be able to sit on her heating pad, look out the balcony and see the snow outside and think, "Hmm..maybe this apartment living isn't SO BAD after all!"

But right now it's summer and beautiful outside and I've seen her gazing out the balcony window a few times, but when she sees me she runs back to the closet. I always wonder what she's thinking...


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## Saly

*hello,*

I know whe you mean, right now it is very, very nice out here. But she only stays in my yard, sleeping usually in one of the gardens. I think she will probably miss being outside, but in the long run I think she will be happier. I see her so often, on edge, looking around, hoping there is no other animals coming out of the woods. We live right next to the woods, where there are bear, fox and coyotes. She seems to crave my attention, after my vacation,(I have someone to feed her and my other cat - but I will be worried about the two of them!!!), I plan on trying to get her in.
Any advice also I could use!!!!
Sally


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## Myulchee

Saly said:


> I know whe you mean, right now it is very, very nice out here. But she only stays in my yard, sleeping usually in one of the gardens. I think she will probably miss being outside, but in the long run I think she will be happier. I see her so often, on edge, looking around, hoping there is no other animals coming out of the woods. We live right next to the woods, where there are bear, fox and coyotes. She seems to crave my attention, after my vacation,(I have someone to feed her and my other cat - but I will be worried about the two of them!!!), I plan on trying to get her in.
> Any advice also I could use!!!!
> Sally


1 idea: Have you set up a safe house for her yet? Kind of like a safety den if she needs it (maybe put two exits in it just in case something tries to follow her in there). And it could serve as a transition between inside and outside eventually, where you could even bring the safety den inside for her after she is brought in. You could maybe put it on the porch or near a back door. If she adopts that safe house and it appears to be part of the house or similar to it, you could be halfway there! A garage den could be good too...

I would have done this for Myul-chee, but I was living on a government owned campus, and the maintenance men would have trashed it the minute they found it, and then likely have called a trapper to get rid of the 'animal problem' (as I said they generally don't like cats here, especially the older generation).


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## Saly

*hello,*

No I didn't make a safety house. But I have made a room for her, bought 2 nice cat trees,with little houses on the bottom, lots of cat toys. We put a screen door on, so she can see the rest of the house but be safe in the room. The door has cat safe screen (they can't rip it), and plexi glass on the bottom, so my other cat can't scratch it. Hope this works.
Outside in the winter we made her a nice wooden house, with the two doors on it so she wouldn't be trapped and she did use it at night. But during the day she would sit and stare (from 15 ft. away), inside the sliding glass doors of our house for hours. This year we made the decision to bring her in because she has started to come around nicely.
I think we are going to bring her to the vets when we trap her, to get her deflead and dewormed and the rest of the tests - is this a good idea?
I know I wouldn't be able to get her there for a long while if I don't do it right away!
Sally


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## Myulchee

Saly said:


> No I didn't make a safety house. But I have made a room for her, bought 2 nice cat trees,with little houses on the bottom, lots of cat toys. We put a screen door on, so she can see the rest of the house but be safe in the room. The door has cat safe screen (they can't rip it), and plexi glass on the bottom, so my other cat can't scratch it. Hope this works.
> Outside in the winter we made her a nice wooden house, with the two doors on it so she wouldn't be trapped and she did use it at night. But during the day she would sit and stare (from 15 ft. away), inside the sliding glass doors of our house for hours. This year we made the decision to bring her in because she has started to come around nicely.
> I think we are going to bring her to the vets when we trap her, to get her deflead and dewormed and the rest of the tests - is this a good idea?
> I know I wouldn't be able to get her there for a long while if I don't do it right away!
> Sally


The wooden house sounds good. It seems like she is interested in what's going on in the real house too, so that's a good sign.

Myul-chee did that too, looking into the glass doors to the lobby of our former apartment, especially during winter. There was no way to let her in as pets weren't allowed there, and even if we wanted to break the rules, no way to really herd her into our apt. unit without risking her running somewhere else, like the laundry room or game room, etc.

I don't know if that means they really want in, or if they are just curious. I'm guessing part of them wants in, but they aren't sure how to go about it or if it's best for them. They don't know what we are thinking, and we don't know what they are really thinking, and we can't explain to them the options unfortunately. 

After trapping, yeah, just take her to the vets and give her the works (shots, deworm, parasites, fix, everything) because it may be your only chance for a while if she stays wild. 

And make sure the vets know how to handle her, as in, suggest they just knock her out with the surgery anesthetics while she is IN the cage so she sleeps though most of the experience. (I'm no vet, but it seems the most rational option for feral cats. The idiots I chose underestimated Myul-chee and let her escape and I don't know what happened to her after that - other than she hates humans more than ever now due to the experience.) The vet experience alone could rattle her and even break her trust. I think Myul-chee is almost a worst case scenario, so if you can avoid any mishaps like that, so much the better.

Myul-chee is healthy now, but I don't know how the heck I'll ever get her to a vet again without serious drugs. For her it was a like a life or death experience. She panics so easy now. She flipped out today as I came towards the closet to change her food bowl. I didn't know she was watching me approach from a gap as she was hidden under the flooring. So all she saw was a big human coming towards her safe area. She popped out from under the floor and tried to run but I was blocking the way (the balcony is so narrow), so she bolted into her house. 

2 steps forward, 5 steps back, as they say...


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## Myulchee

*UPDATE ON MYUL-CHEE:*

The bad news: It's been around a year now, and Myul-chee is STILL very fearful of us and hides almost all the time. Due to her constant hiding, we fear she doesn't get enough activity, which may impact her health and happiness. 

The good news:  Lately there have been a few small interesting improvements (see below).

When winter started, we made the choice to bring Myul-chee in from our covered balcony. It was a cold winter and we were making little progress so why not try? 

Unfortunately, to do this, we had to kick her out of her closet just to get her in. I lifted the corner of her padded house and she darted inside and into our office, which is her other default hiding spot. 

We then moved her house into the office with two other cats, on the floor under my desk. (She seems to get along with the two cats fine; it's humans she hates) She stayed in the office but was not thrilled with me working at the desk with my feet next to her house, so she would occasionally dart out and hide under the bedroom bed for a few days. We would leave food and water under there for her but it seemed she wouldn't use the litter box for days. Don't know how she holds it that long and it can't be good for her. 

So, after a few tweaks to the office to try to make it more livable for Myul-chee, I finally have a floor plan that so far seems to work well. I put two very tall wardrobe closets together so there is a high level for her as a safe zone. I put her cat house up there along with some carpeting and a plant. We put a cat ladder there so she has access up and down. Our other two cats go up there too, but it's primarily Myul-chee's zone. There is also a window she can look out while she sits up there too. 

She seems to like it up there! I think she feels safer now. I've been going in the office more to work, and I've started talking to her more. She definitely knows my voice. 

We can now look at each other and she doesn't have the look of panic in her face as much as before. I blink and talk to her and then ignore her, then try again. Lately she has narrowed her eyes too, and sometimes blinks back. I don't look at her too long though as I don't want to stress her. 

She usually still hides in her house up there, but lately has been perching up there outside her house while I'm in the room. Sometimes sitting, sometimes laying. The other night, she was laying up there and I said goodnight to her and instead of just staring at me or looking away, she folded her head down to sleep!

*How positive are these signs? 

Can she be happy living like this?*

As far as we know, she never leaves the office, even though she could explore the house if she wants to. She only seems to come down to use the litter box, and then only when the door is shut, then immediately goes back up. 

All the cats get along with each other, and Myul-chee seems to be the dominant cat. She has seen me petting the other two cats but I can't imagine petting Myul-chee or even approaching her. Her body language suggests that if I get close she will panic.

Any thoughts or tips on her predicament? What else can we do?

It's important because we will eventually move back to the US. Maybe within a year or so. This is a huge variable. 

We worry that this move could be a big problem if Myul-chee is still wild by the time we want to move. The move will be stressing on even our tame cats (20+ hours on planes, etc.), but for a wild/semi-feral?? Seems almost impossible, maybe unethical, and maybe not feasible or even legal. But the alternatives (shelters, letting her out again back where we found her) are not ideal either. 

*Thoughts? Advice? Etc.?*


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## hunterseat

What floor are you on? I'd be scared she'd jump off the balcony!

I think you should peacefully co-exist and, when she's ready, she will approach you. She already knows you won't hurt her and you're her food source. 

Human contact is probably more overwhelming than she can stand maybe ever, but probably she will come around.

I had one that rarely allowed contact but she was a good kitty.


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## Myulchee

hunterseat said:


> What floor are you on? I'd be scared she'd jump off the balcony!
> 
> I think you should peacefully co-exist and, when she's ready, she will approach you. She already knows you won't hurt her and you're her food source.
> 
> Human contact is probably more overwhelming than she can stand maybe ever, but probably she will come around.
> 
> I had one that rarely allowed contact but she was a good kitty.


We're on the 9th floor. It's a windowed balcony, and she doesn't go out there anymore since the move to the office, as she doesn't even want to pass us or be in the same room it seems...


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## Catmamma

Love the story of Myulchee. I have a traumatized semi-feral who exhibits some of Myulchee's characteristics. However, she is an outside cat (farm) who absolutely refuses to be contained at any time. Obviously, she was trapped somewhere and that was her trauma. She gets skittish from time to time but will let me pet her and, on good days, sits on my lap and purrs while I pet her. Try some classic behavior modification with your cat. Catch her doing something positive and reward her with a treat that she only gets when you are interacting. It might work. I am working on getting my cat to voluntarily go into a carrier. (She has never been to the vet, yet.) Maybe you can get yours in before you have to fly to the U. S. Good luck.


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## Myulchee

Catmamma said:


> Love the story of Myulchee. I have a traumatized semi-feral who exhibits some of Myulchee's characteristics. However, she is an outside cat (farm) who absolutely refuses to be contained at any time. Obviously, she was trapped somewhere and that was her trauma. She gets skittish from time to time but will let me pet her and, on good days, sits on my lap and purrs while I pet her. *Try some classic behavior modification with your cat. Catch her doing something positive and reward her with a treat that she only gets when you are interacting. * It might work. I am working on getting my cat to voluntarily go into a carrier. (She has never been to the vet, yet.) Maybe you can get yours in before you have to fly to the U. S. Good luck.


That's a good idea: I'll try the treats thing when she is out of her house, so she will associate me with good things. 

She seems more comfortable around my wife, although my wife has mixed feelings about her; thinks I baby her too much and seems to resent it a bit, especially when I ask her to not slam the door to the office, etc. She views it as a battle between her and Myul-chee. I'm trying to downplay this dynamic but the tension is already there. I hope it's just temporary. This could be a factor as well.


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## Saly

I have been wondering how you have been doing with the kitty!! I have my Ben now in her room, and she is doing well. I have spent many, many hours and alot of patience with her, sitting on the floor. At first she wouldn't come near me, but would walk all around me purring, then after about 2 months of that and alot of hours just sitting talking with her, she came to me and started rubbing her head on me, I did not make a move to pet her. After 6 weeks of that I started to pet her - only with one finger!, then after weeks of that, started petting her with my hand. I can now pet her, she doesn't run from me and also doesn't hide. She only likes to petted when I am sitting, but she loves it. She still is skittish, but won't run from me or my husband unless we startle her. She sleeps on her couch, or in her cat tree. All of this has been after hours and hours of sitting with her. Our house is very small, and her room has a screen door, so we interact with her all day. I think she is coming along very good, but this is only after alot or work and patience. I hope your kitty will come along also, I believe she will with time!
Sally


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## Myulchee

That's great! Sounds like you guys are months or years ahead of our situation. Sounds like you set the right pace as well! Very patient. At the very least, Myul-chee doesn't completely panic now when we enter the room. I can look at her and she will close her eyes a bit or blink, but doesn't look at me directly very much. I'm trying to spend more time in the office, but most of that time she stays in her house and sleeps anyway, so I'm not sure that's interaction.

I wish there were ways to accelerate the process without freaking them out. We had a wild kitten and although he avoided us too, we forced the petting a bit and he loved the feel of the touch. He instantly started purring. But I'm scared to try that with a full grown cat...


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## Saly

I don't think there is any way to make the progress go faster. I think it is going to take a very long time, even for the way Ben is with me. She is still weary of any motion that I make fast, and even if I pet her differently she reacts. I know it can possible take 1 - 2 years, but I will do what I have to. I wouldn't force the progress at all. I would just sit quietly and talk to your cat, until she is comfortable to come over to you, they said it would take alot of patience on my part, and it certainly does!!!, but it will pay off in the long run - keep me posted!!! Please don't give up!
SAlly


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## bluemilk

Try doing family activities in her presence. Being a cat ,her curiosity may win out,and she might come over and investigate! If not she'll at leat start to get used to you. updates?


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## Mitts & Tess

Just read your story of Myulchee. You are such a great person for having compassion on her. Have you tried the Feliway treats? They worked for a friend of mine who has a hyper 4 yr old cat. The feliway collar has never seemed to work for my friends in rescue on foster cats.

Just wanted to mention a point from the kitty boot camp. Pushing limits is a *gentle* nudging of their comfort zones. A gentle nudge might be staying in the room when you put the food out and they want to eat. Or sitting near their food bowl. Most people trying to work with ferals do big nudges instead of small nudges. Its about small baby steps.

I hope you will be able to bring Myulchee back to the states with you. 20 hours in a carrier to a forever home with food and people to monitor her and love her is nothing in the big scheme of things.

A little off topic but I read the most wonderful book last week. No Buddy Left Behind: Bringing U.S. Troops Dogs and Cats Safely Home from the Combat Zone. by Terri Crisp and Cynthia Hurn.

It was a next to impossible feat to accomplish getting the dogs and cats back to the US from Iraq and Afghanistan but they did it. 

I would enjoy an update on how things are progressing! Again thanks for all you've done for her.


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## Myulchee

Quick UPDATE on Myulchee:

Well, she still almost never comes down off the top of the wardrobe, even when we go out and leave for awhile. She only comes down to use the litter box, but will hold it for long periods of time until she feels it's safe to do so. When she does, she rarely buries it as maybe she thinks it makes too much noise and she going under cover. 

She doesn't seem to get much exercise or even seem to want to, and this is worrisome and probably not good for her longterm health. Not sure what I can do about it though. 

SOME small IMPROVEMENTS:

On the other hand, she seems a lot friendlier lately. There is no look of panic on her face when I enter the room! As long as she is on the wardrobe, she'll look down at me and make lots of eye contact and blink a bit. I talk to her a lot and poke my head in to say HI and she is really getting used to us being around and saying HI to her. Although if we overdo it, she'll go into her little covered safe house when she gets the chance. When I sit down at the desk in there to do stuff, she really doesn't seem to mind, and I've caught her GROOMING right in front of me and she looks at me and keeps doing it. 

Also, she waits outside her house (on the wardrobe) and stares at us as she waits for her food. I can give it to her almost right in front of her face and she doesn't shy away. She will wait until I close the door and then she'll eat. 

The reason I don't usually stay in the room so much is that she's been puking up undigested food a bit, and I think it was because she was eating it too quickly (?) if I'm there... maybe she gets a bit nervous. 

But... she knows my voice and I can talk to her but I still can't really read her. I want her to be happy and walk around the house, but she never leaves the office and almost never comes down off the wardrobe it seems. What an existence. But at least she gets good food from us and she knows we feed her.

I'd still like to know how to get her more comfortable to come down. I've thought about initiating some petting while she is up there, but not so sure. The other day I was tempted and saw her laying up there within arms reach, so I said HI, and started to brush my hand on her fur on her back, and she instantly tensed up so I backed off quickly...

She is making baby steps I suppose, but not sure how to keep her progressing...


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## Mitts & Tess

Its all about baby steps in her world. She is deciding how much to trust you. Its about pushing her comfort zone gently. She is moving forward. Good job!!! She will come around. It just takes time and a lot of being around her to make her use to it. One day you will be holding her in your arms. My semi feral wouldn't let us near him for two years. Now he is a big mush of love! But it took 4 years of getting him to that point. He lets me do anything to him. Its like one day, he just decided to trust me. All your patient work will pay off!


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