# Pregnant Feral...need help!



## Vyxxin

Alright, I wasn't sure if this should go under the feral section or the breeding section but figured if it was in the wrong place someone would move it  Anyhow, here's the story...my boyfriend works at a small place on the edge of town. The total number of employees is under 20. Anyhow, people frequently drop cats off there and the employees would feed them. Well, the boss decided recently that it was time for the cats to go (they've been there for over 2 years I think) and they started trapping them and taking them to the shelter. WELL, the last one was trapped last night. My boyfriend called me from work because he didn't know what to do. The last one is a heavily pregnant female, that all the employees know (and several have kittens from previous litters) Anyhow, she's pretty aggressive and would be killed at our local shelters as "unadoptable" He didn't want to take her to the shelter (a death sentence) so he asked what I thought...I told him to bring her home. Currently we have her set up in an ex-large dog crage with a food dish, cat toy, litter box, nest box. She can be petted, but that's where the long and short of her socialization. She doesn't react well to sudden movement.

SO, now to the pregnant part. She's huge, and could be due anyday for all I know. This is at least her fourth litter. She's happy to be indoors but truthfully, I don't have much experience with cats. So I really need help. I know absolutely next to nothing (aside from feeding) about how to care for a pregnant cat. Let alone a feral cat. So, I'm hoping someone can "mentor" me a bit. I need to know things like when to expect the litter, how long gestation is, when is it appropriate to handle kittens (I'm hoping to make them adoptable), is she likely to kill her kittens, is there anything that my family or my pet chihuahua can catch from her, what kind of "extra" feed should she have being pregnant, is there anything special the kittens will need to eat, how to potty train the kittens, etc...etc...etc...I really need help. Right now it's still winter in PA, and frequently drops below freezing. I don't know of any shelters in the area that wouldn't kill her (and I know the local ones well). I would also like to have her spayed and tested...but would like maybe a list of places to take feral cats for these things? Anything you guys could help with would be greatly appreciated. In the meantime, I'm going to read up. Thanks in advance


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## Jeanie

Vyxxin, I have some links for you. In this first link you'll find many others that will be helpful.

http://cats.about.com/cs/pregnancybirth ... irth_3.htm

Here's a link to help you with the kittens:

http://maxshouse.com/kitten_care.htm

It's important that mother cat gets spayed as soon as the kittens can be weaned. There are organizations that will help you financially when it's time to spay the mother cat. 

Here is a link, which lists organizations, state by state. 

http://www.alleycat.org/orgs.html

If she cannot be tamed, it would be better to neuter her and release her. You could continue to feed and care for her. However, if she doesn't mind being indoors, perhaps you'll want to keep her. That would be ideal, of course, and if you decide to do that, there is advice for you in the feral thread. 

I think it's best to move this to the Feral Cats Forum. I have been a breeder, and the people who post there have a lot of experience with feral cats and kittens. We'll be happy to give you our best advice. 

The very first thing I would do is have this pregnant mommy tested for Feline Leukemia and FIV. These diseases are contagious, and if you have other cats, you will have to isolate this kitty. In addition, she should not be released, as she could infect other outdoor cats. Good luck!


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## Vyxxin

Jeanie, thanks for the move and the information. I thought about putting this one in feral cats but really needed help with kittens so wasn't entirely sure where to put it  Anyhow, thanks for the help. I have a question, about the testing that needs done (which I was semi-aware of) when should that be done. Should it be done now or after the litter? She is very close and in isolation. We do not have other cats, but do have a dog (don't know if either of those can be transmitted to dogs) But as of now, we DO plan to have her fixed after the litter. But I need to know when to get her tested. Any advice?


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## Jeanie

I would get her tested right away. Then take the vet's advice.


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## Vyxxin

Alright, thanks  I'm currently looking into a feral cat program for the spay/testing/vaccinations but having no luck finding anything in Cambria County PA? Still working on it, and at the very least I'll ask my vet if he knows of any when I schedual her appointment...again, thanks for the resources and a board to ask these kind of questions on


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## Heidi n Q

I believe your family and chihuahua are safe, I don't think feline diseases cross species barriers.
Good luck with Mamma and her litter-to-be. I'm pretty sure that if she'll let you pet her, she is well on her way to allowing herself to become a tame kitty-pet. Some of my best housecats were former ferals, and the VERY BEST one was feral for his first eleven years before he became a house pet and enjoyed feral kitty retirement!
Handle her and her litter as much as she will allow. I kept a kittening mamma in my master bath with her litter. She tamed down very quickly, so I believe she was dumped and not truly feral, just untrusting in the begining. I still have her, she is next to me right now as I type... Anyway, I used a large cat carrier with towels for her to kitten in. She grew accustomed to me coming/going and showering and using the hair dryer in the bathroom. The babies grew used to it, too. When the babies were older I allowed them into the Master BR. 
Babies eventually went through an adoption program and we tried an adoption weekend with Shadow, but she did not handle it well at all and when we picked her up, hubby said we wouldn't put her through that again and we kept her. 
Good luck, I'm sure everything will go fine...
Heidi


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## Vyxxin

Boy can this kitty eat! Anyone know how much a pregnant female should eat? Or should be offered? I'm growing to like her more and more...today I went to feed her and she licked my hand, it scared me because I thought she was going to bite me  But then I thought it was really cute. She doesn't like being confined and always tries getting out now, and meows when she can't (if people are in the room). She's working on being kept here even though that wasn't my original intention. But we're still working on a vet appointment. I'm still really nervous about taking her to a vet, but we'll see how it goes. Thanks a lot everyone for helping me out with this, I didn't really know where to turn or what to do. I appreciate it and I'm sure Din does too (that's what the employees named her)


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## Jeanie

I would feed her a good variety of canned food, if possible, three times a day. Now is not the time for a diet...unless the vet recommends it. It sounds as if she's a real doll baby! 

I would check her genitals for a discharge. There will be a discharge of the mucous plug during the last day or so, and a slight discharge for several days. I would also rest my hand gently on her abdomen to make sure the kittens are moving. (That would be only if she went beyond 65 days.)


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## Vyxxin

Sorry I haven't been on in a while...got a bit busy.

Din littered between last night and this morning...I sat up through the first 5...fell asleep and when I woke about 5hrs later she was having the last one. She's exhausted, but acting very well. She's eating, and taking good care of the kittens. She's still bleeding a bit, but I'm told that's fairly normal? I mean, it's a tiny bit...and not continuous? Also, she ate last night...even during delivery...but now is not eating much at all. I was feeding her a good variety of canned AND some dry since she's been here...any time the bowl was empty. Is this normal?

Here is a picture of her and her kittens:










Here is just the kittens, I have no idea what the proper names are for their colors but boy are they cute.


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## Heidi n Q

Oh, they are lovely! Would love to see pics as they grow...
# boys, # girls?
Heidi


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## Jet Green

How sweet!!  How's the mom doing? Has she gotten any friendlier? She looks awfully relaxed in that photo. :wink:


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## Jeanie

I assume Mother cat is eating more now? At first they don't like to leave the kittens. I would make sure the litter box is nearby, and I would feed her a canned food (she needs "soupy" foods to make milk). You can't leave the canned food out all the time, because it will go bad. However, she should eat even more to nurse than when pregnant...just like people!

The kittens are _beautiful!_ I'm sure you're already in love with them! I'm looking forward to more pictures, also! Please keep in touch.


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## Stephie

Aww what absolutely beautiful little babies. It looks like everything is going well so far. In terms of her eating now, well if you thought she ate a lot over the last few days when she was pregnant, watch out!!  She will need plenty to eat now that she is nursing, probably twice as much as you would usually expect an adult cat to eat. I agree with Jeanie that a nice canned food should tempt her but you might also like to give her some kitty milk to supplement that with. Just as an idea when Willow was nursing 5 kittens she was eating on average about 5-6 pouches a day and she is a little thing.

More kitten piccies please


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## zippy96444

How exciting! So cute! Mom does look very relaxed. I think she will come along quite well with you. So glad she is inside to have the babies!


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## Vyxxin

To be honest, she's been quite sweet the past few days. I mean, she's not "loving me up" or anything  Just not biting, hissing, and clawing  But hey, I'll take whatever improvement I can get. As far as eating goes, I changed her food three times today and she didn't touch any of it (different flavors of wet food). I was told this is normal, but it still worries me just the same. So would you guys recommend anything else? Also, I did give her some kitty milk (as someone on another forum also recommended that) and she took some of it, she's drinking normally and pottying normally. She's resting, and taking breaks away from the nest...but the kittens aren't complaining and their bellys feel full. They're warm and happy  They're so sweet, just precious. I don't know about sexes yet...I had them out briefly today to weigh them (I breed high quality pedigreed chinchillas on a small scale...so I always weigh babies) and everyone was over 100g. The black one is the runt, the white/tiger/black is the largest. The reason I haven't tried to sex them is because it would take me a while to figure each one out, and mommy gets prety upset when the babies start mewing. Though otherwise, she's fine with me handling them for small periods of time. I've even moved her legs to get them and she's let me...this may sound like nothing if you have friendly tame cat, but this cat has bitten three members of my family just randomly so I was quite pleased to get away with it. I'm keeping the room at a dry 90 (maybe a bit less, but it's around that)...is this too hot? Any other recommendations?


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## Jeanie

90 is very warm, Vyxxin; I would keep the room nice and cozy, however. Warmth and food are real essentials for kittens. I think I would gradually lower the temperature to 80, at least. 

I guess you have noticed that mother cat is cleaning up after the kittens. She will continue that, until the kittens begin to eat pureed meat, at about 4 -4 1/2 weeks. Then they will imitate mother and start to use the litter box. You can help by putting them into the litter box when they awaken and after they eat, and scratching their little paws in the litter. Kittens are very easy to train. Here's another link for you:

http://cats.about.com/cs/kittencare/a/k ... styear.htm


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## Vyxxin

Working on getting the temperature down...have another question  Thank you all for being so patient and helpful by the way...anyhow, that last link says that kittens of ferals should be separated from their mother by week 6. While their mother isn't, I'm sure, as bad as some ferals...she is mean regularly and quite unpredictable with humans. Should they stay with her longer or not? Also, it says to spay the female before weaning, while I fully intend to do this...may I ask why before weaning? Thanks


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## Jeanie

Shelters want the kittens young, because the public doesn't know they need this time with littermates and mother cat. The shelters don't have a lot of room, and the public wants cute young babies.  There was a time that six weeks was considered adequate, but not by breeders. You don't want kittens who are sucking their paws and wool. Mother will wean them, of course, but playing is very important. If you are going to place them personally, you can do what most of us consider correct...12 weeks. Make sure you charge for them, enough to cover the vet visit and shots. 

If you socialize the kittens regularly, holding and playing with them, they will learn that human beings are fun, warm, soft, and a great source of food! I know you won't be able to resist them, anyway! 

I just checked the source I gave you, and here's a quote:


> In the wild, big cats often remain with the mother for the first full year, to learn the skills necessary for survival. With domesticated cats, this is rarely the case, but under ideal circumstances, a kitten should remain with his mother for at least 12 to 16 weeks.


I believe the mother cat should be spayed as soon as possible..after weaning. A female can get pregnant while still nursing, so it's important to spay her promptly.


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## Vyxxin

> For this reason, feral cat rescuers, if faced with a pregnant feral or a very young litter, will separate the litter from the mother (after spaying her) before six weeks for optimal results in socializing the kittens for new homes.


This is the quote I was referring to, though I did read the part you posted as well (which is were the confusion came in). Anyhow, that quote comes from a secondary link on the page you provided 

http://cats.about.com/cs/kittencare/a/tracksixweek.htm 

Even if I did wean them earlier than 12 weeks I did intend to keep them with each other and not adopt them out for a bit afterwards of course...but like I mentioned, I was wondering because of their situation, what would be best for them overall.


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## Vyxxin

Because I know you guys can't get enough pictures  and who can resist these adorable faces...

Here's a picture to show the difference in color between the "white" and "cream"










Here are their adorable little faces










The black and white, and black










The tiger striped and white/tiger/black


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## Jeanie

Vyxxin, I know that some rescuers of feral cats take the kittens from the mother, and raise the kittens. However, I don't think "your cat" is truly a feral. Most true ferals would be tearing your house apart to get outside. They will not allow a human being near them. I think your cat is a stray who has been on her own for a while and doesn't quite trust strangers. 

I think you will find that the mother cat will wean the kittens before 12 weeks, but interaction is important. The kittens need to learn "how to be a cat."  

The kittens are adorable! I could kiss those baby faces! We want to watch them grow!


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## Vyxxin

Alright, now I understand  Yeah, I too believe she's probably just a stray and has, at some point in her life previous, had human interaction. She isn't terrible, she bites and claws when she feels like it but not all the time and she isn't as wild as I've seen some barn cats. Still, I don't think any of my local shelters would deal with her. If an animal is aggressive, they give them a VERY short amount of time (from the one shelter I checked into it seemed like they euth at two days or less for aggressive animals) and will not adopt them out. 

On another note, I've compiled a list of places that may help in the spay/neuter of everyone (mother first, litter when it's time)...but none really look overly promising as they're mostly out of my county and stipulate that you must reside inside their county for the program benefits 

However, I'm still hopeful and will be calling about two dozen places tomorrow. Also, members on another forum I'm a longstanding member of (chinchilla oriented) are planning a chinchilla item raffle to benefit these guys which really makes me so happy. I can't believe how many people are willing to help, even with advice, these days. It really makes my day. Just when you think the world is going downward...this kind of thing makes you happy that there ARE still good people out there. Also, don't know if I mentioned it, but a gentleman from the business the mother was trapped from (the one who loaned us the box trap) has offered to take up a collection to have the mother spayed. SO, at the very least...if all else fails and I cannot find a cheap/free program...I'll have help. 

With that, I want to thank everyone and I will keep this updated. On their growth, development, care, and adoption when the time comes.


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## Vyxxin

I have a question, the mother got the runs today...and I was wondering if that's normal (I Know it is in some species) after littering, or if I need to switch her to only dry food...or ???


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## Heidi n Q

I believe it is normal for them to not eat for a day or two after kittening AND for them to get the runs. Especially if they ate the placentas. There is a lot of nutrition they get from eating that, so they don't need to eat, plus the mothering-instinct may keep them with their kittens the first few days and also the richness of the placentas could cause diarrhea. I'd really only be worried if it persisted more than 1-3 days.
You can call your vet office and ask for sure, but myself, I wouldn't worry about it.
Heidi


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## Jeanie

Sometimes eating the placentas will give the mother cat diarrhea. Cow's milk gives many cats diarrhea, so it you're giving her milk, of course you should stop. Is she eating well? I would not stop the canned food, but you might need to change brands. 

Here is a quote that might help you:



> It is common for momma cats & kittens to develop diarrhea shortly after birth. This is many times due to intestinal parasitic infections, especially roundworms, which are often activated by pregnancy. So what to do?
> 
> First, treat the roundworms. Nursing mother cats can be treated with Roundworm worming medicine without harm to the kittens. Be sure that you find medicine that is marked safe for nursing moms.
> 
> As for momma, consider giving her a little bit of dry, skin-less chicken. This has been known to help in diarrhea. If these changes do not stem the diarrhea within 1-2 days, begin giving momma a little bit of EITHER yogurt or bene-bac (consult with your vet as to the dosage). The reason you want to use only one of the two is that yogurt, like bene-bac has bacterial components and you do not want to overwhelm momma, or the little ones for that matter. In the mean time continue keeping the little guys hydrated and take them to the vet as soon as you are able to. Also, do not forget to have momma cat spayed. Many shelters and local chapters of the ASPCA have free spay & neuter programs for strays.


http://www.kittencare.com/askKC_Pregnancy_Birth.html

_It's important to consult the vet before treating mother or kittens for worms._


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## Vyxxin

Thanks for the advice. Like I said, I breed and raise chinchillas and I know they get soft stools right after littering. I, of course, will keep an eye on it and if it persists will have to figure out the cause.


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## Vyxxin

Well...I got some price quotes today from MY vet (who, IMO, is fairly reasonable on price) BUT, before I can figure everything out, I need to sex these guys. I've looked over the site for sexes...and I've taken some pics. I'm pretty sure I know which is which...but would like someone to confirm so here are the pics:



Black, white, and tiger kitty














Cream kitty














Tiger Striped


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## Vyxxin

Alright, the other half of the litter 



Black














White














Black and White


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## Jeanie

It's _very_ easy to make a mistake! I thought I was pretty good at it, but when they get a wee bit older, it will be liable to be more accurate. I made a mistake at this age once.  The female looks like a colon ":" and the male like an inverted exclamation point.

Right now, I am fairly sure the tiger (tabby) is a male. I have all of my first impressions written down. It will be interesting to see if I am right. Compare two kittens, and the female will be the one whose opening is closest to the anus. If you have a digital camera, take more pictures in a few weeks!


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## Vyxxin

And incase you missed it, the tiger/black and white DOES have one eye opened as of yesterday night (at 3 days old)


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## Vyxxin

While I'm still unsure of what each individual is...I'm pretty sure the litter is 50/50 which makes figure costs fine. I'd still like to know, as I will be keeping a female and I want to be able to tell which are my prospects that way I can let others (who are already interested in adoption when the time comes) know what all is available. 

Any guesses? I've looked at another "sexing" site...and I still cannot figure it out  They look too darn similar to me at this point. I can wait another few weeks, and it should be more apparent by then right?


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## Jeanie

That is really early to open his eyes! Usually they're about 5 days old! Clever little Tigger!

My opinion is subject to change. I think the first one is a female, the tabby (tiger is a male), the cream one and the black one are females, the white fluffy one has too much fluff in front of her privates; the black and white is hard to sex. If you hold two kittens that you believe you're sure about, you can see better, but with pictures, distance is different. I hope you understand what I mean! I had two windows open, so that I could go back and forth to compare! :lol:


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## zippy96444

Okay, this feels like a contest! :lol: Baby butts! I think the black one is male, white is female, black and white male, tiger striped male, cream female, and black, white and tiger is male. Is that all of them? 8O No reason why I believe this, I can sex neonate squirrels, but kittens are harder, male baby squirrels peeper looks like it could be the belly button. I had one lady try to pull it off of a baby, thought it was umbilical cord! 8O :crying


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## zippy96444

Okay, found real pictures, I might have to change my guess








girl








boy


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## zippy96444

Okay, here I go, black female, white male, black and white female, tiger striped female, cream female, black& white& tiger female. I think I changed all except the cream one.


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## Vyxxin

LOL! Maybe I'll just have to wait  Those are the pictures I seen too...and that's when I really got confused  BEFORE I looked at them, I thought I had it figured out!


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## Heidi n Q

VERY early to get their eyes open! 

I want to see how close my guesses are when they are older and easier to tell, too!
Here are my guesses:
b/w tiger BOY
cream GIRL
tiger stripe BOY
black BOY -> GIRL, leaning towards GIRL (seems more girl-shaped to me)
white GIRL
b/w BOY -> GIRL, leaning towards BOY (because of the distance between the dots)


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## Vyxxin

I know, I think the b/w tiger was jumping the gun  I took them all out last night to get current weights, and low and behold an eye! I was a bit confused at first  All the reading I did said it should've been a few more days...but there it is  Just one of course, but still! 

Oh, that reminds me...the one website I read said that they should double their weight in their first week...is this generally true? I'm asking because while some should do just that (like the b/w tiger) some will definitely not. For instance, the black and white has only gained 20g total in the last three days. That one was born at about 118g so...well...it's not going to double it's weight in a week I don't think.

Also, I know I asked before and either I missed the answer...or there wasn't one...but how much should the mother be eating (roughly) now? I know to free feed her, but it's still helpful to know. I know over the course of about 7hrs she has ate about 11.5oz of soft food, is that normal? Low? High?

Also, just remembered...I have a question about coloring  I noticed when weighing last night that one (either the cream or white...I think the white) of the kittens had...like...a bluish color on the inside of their ears? It's not dirt, appears to be maybe skin pigment...and if you look at the picture of the white (the rear photo) you can see the skin appears blackish? Does this mean something?


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## zippy96444

how are the little ones doing?


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## Jeanie

About her diet....she's eating more than usual, but she's nursing, so I wouldn't limit her intake now. A lot depends on her weight, bone structure, etc. White cats usually have pink skin. I wouldn't be concerned, however.


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## Vyxxin

They're all doing well. I set up Din's spay for the later part of May, will hopefully get some updated pics soon  Everyone is asking about them!


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## Vyxxin

As per popular request Here are the beauties at a whopping two weeks old!

First up, the tabby and white- day one weighed 124g and is now up to 285g









Next, the black beauty - day one weighed in at 105g and is now at 220g









Third is the little kitty we call Smiley, while he was born at 113g, he's not progressing as well as the others and is currently only 192g...but, he's doing well just the same and holding his own


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## Vyxxin

Fourth, the "cream" kitten which is getting more and more markings by the day I swear born at 118g, is now 252g









Fifth is the tabby kitty, a little chunker he is...born at 119g he is now up to a whopping 287g and as you can see, a little tiger he is









Finally, and last but not least the white one. Born at 120g and is now 200g even.









As far as the coloring on the two light ones, they look kind of dirty to me but I'm not sure how to clean them? I mean, I change the stuff in their cage all the time...and the white on the other ones (like the tabby, and Smiley) is bright so maybe it's not dirty...but it seems like they're probably naturally a bit whiter than they currently look Maybe baby wipes?


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## Heidi n Q

Your white and cream kittens aren't dirty, they're exhibiting Siamese markings. They are Meezers! Meezers are born white/cream and develop their points as they grow older. 

Also, notice how all of the kittens' eyes look in the photos? The solids/tabbies blue eyes don't reflect the light 'red', like the Meezers, do. I believe this is because the solid/tabbies' eye color will change and the Meezers will remain blue...and blue eyes have a tendency to look red in camera flash photos. 
Lucky you, I want a Meezer!
Heidi


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## Vyxxin

Yeah, I'd been told that about the eyes by someone on another forum  It was also mentioned (before I even noticed) that the really creamy one appeared to have the start of "points"  I wonder just how these kitties will look all grown up...an interesting litter from such a "plain" mother...wonder what daddy looked like


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## Heidi n Q

When I was a child we had a pregnant striped tabby cat adopt us. She gave birth to her litter in our garage and I chose a white kitten from the litter. 
Of course, I named my kitten Snowball because she was white.
Snowball was a tabby/meezer. She had the stocky build and round head of a tabby with the brown points, blue eyes and meow of a Siamese. She lived to be 19. Her body color was much, MUCH darker than traditionally pale colored Siamese. She was a very deep chocolate brown with darker brown points.
I bet your feral mamma had several beau's and one was a meezer or the sire(s) carried heterozygous genes which allowed for the meezers, solids, w/ whites and the agouti tabbies.


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## Vyxxin

That's what another person suggested, different fathers considering the litter variation  I like this litter, I mean, I'm never going to ever breed cats...and they will all be spayed/neutered and never bred...but I'm so glad I got to be a part of a litter that I deem to be unique


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## Jeanie

You beat me to it, Heidi! I turned off the computer before these pictures were posted. I have one Siamese and one Balinese. (long haired Siamese) They are heart breakers, Vyxxin, I'm warning you! And they are so loving and intelligent! 

I have always taken in strays, mostly black ones. My last black cat (rescued from a car engine) was a tiny baby with a BIG meow, and I knew immediately she was a Siamese in disguise! What a little character she was. After she died, I missed her "talking" and personality so much I got two Siamese.  I am waiting and listening for a little cry, because little black strays always find me! And I always take them in! 

Your babies are beautiful, Vyxxin! I want them all! :luv


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## Vyxxin

I'm planning on keeping one and have been going back and forth on the black and white and the "cream" one...most people liked the "white" but I was really drawn to the cream...we'll see how they turn out but I'm pretty sure that one will become our resident. His personality compared to the others seems more intellectual if that's possible at this age. He will examine the world outside of their cage all the time (all day everyday) and the others are still just mainly interested in food. I like him/her. I'll have these guys at the VERY least for another 4-10 weeks...some longer than others as a close friend of mine has offered to take on one or two and pay all of their expenses. But we'll see, and I will update this thread every so often  I seen a kitten from a previous litter of hers (employees took kittens home frequently) and it looks sort of siamese...with like, very very light tabby points? So I'm excited to see what these little buggers turn out to be!


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## Heidi n Q

I'd love it if you could post a weekly 'update' pic of the babies so we can watch them grow, too.
Heidi


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## Vyxxin

You mean like these?

Taken tonight, at just over three weeks old, first up are the "solids"!


















Then, the "tabbies/tabby crosses"


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## Vyxxin

And last but not least...my...er..."whites"?!? LOL! These guys/gals...I just don't know what to say  What do you all think?


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## Heidi n Q

Yup, definitely meezers! I absolutely LOVE it when kittens move around with their little tails pointing straight up/out!


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## Vyxxin

That last one is working on earning a spot in the household  A really inquisitive/intelligent kitty!

Here's a question, because I don't have much experience with cats in general, is there any way to have a good idea what the meezers will look like as adults? I know in some animals you can tell, and some you can't, so was just wondering if it was possible


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## Janice

OMG....they are just darling!! :love2 

I'm fosterless right now...and it feels so strange to only have my 4 cats... I miss the patter of tiny feets....but kitten season will soon be on us with a vengance.


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## Heidi n Q

Vyxxin said:


> ...is there any way to have a good idea what the meezers will look like as adults?


Do you mean as in facial/body features or markings?

For the body, I'd say to look at the sire/dam (in this case the dam as the tomcat was unknown). For markings, same thing is to look at the parents, but for meezers, they usually have paler bodies and are darker over their points. Temperature plays a large part in the color of the paler body hair. I don't think there is a way to tell what color the (your) meezers will turn out to be.

My tabby/meez was VERY dark. Almost a dark chocolate brown with darker points, but she looked just like your baby meezers when she was that age.
Heidi


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## Vyxxin

Alright, we'll just have to wait and see about coloring  Now for features, like facial structure and whatnot...look at mom? At the very least as I have no idea what the father looked like. I'll have to ask around, someone may know what the possibly father(s) looked like


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## Jet Green

I would also like all of your kittens, please! :luv


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## Vyxxin

Well, everyone is now 30days old  so...just over four weeks now...I decided to move them into another room and take some new pics with everyone's "game face" I feel these pics capture more personality than the last few batches so enjoy!



Here's the little black girly, she's a real "human cat," loves to be with people...as you can see in the pic she's right up against my sister's leg 












Here's the tabby male, he's a chunker and a REALLY placid kitty...he's running over to me so he can cuddle on my lap












Here's the tabby and white male, he's already eating mommy's food all the time now...as you can see, he likes to play


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## Vyxxin

Here's the black and white girl, she's always finding something to get into or something to climb, when she's not...she's sitting quietly 










Here's the meezer, she's a real pretty girl and knows it! She is always posing for the camera









Finally, the "white" kitty...still not sure what she is but I suppose probably a light meezer...she is a whiney thing (who knows, maybe she really is a meezer LOL) but likes to be cuddled as well


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## Jeanie

Oh, here I go again! What precious babies! That little black one is breaking my heart! :heart All of them are so sweet. I believe your first little Siamese cross is a Seal Point; the second is either a blue point or tortie Siamese cross. You'll know for sure by 10 -12 weeks. It's a good thing I'm not there! :luv 








I'm in love; I'm in love; I'm in love; I'm in love; 
I'm in love with a wonderful cat! (guy)

Thanks to South Pacific by Rogers and Hammerstein!


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## Vyxxin

Alright, now I have a question or so 

First, they're starting to use the litterbox! YAY! It's so neat seeing them do it...yeah, I know, they're just using the potty...but it's neat because they're so young and all 

Second, some are now starting to eat mommy's food (as I mentioned in another post) both soft and hard at times.

Finally, not all of them are gaining weight rapidly anymore  It has me a bit concerned but was wondering if I really should be. They range from 8oz to 14.5oz now. I'm fairly certain we have four females and two males, the males are the largest and the females are generally smaller with the smallest being female (my best gender guessing) So I was wondering if this seems too small...if so, what should be done? The smaller ones ARE still nursing (though I'm not sure how much milk mom is producing at this point) and they will occasionally attempt soft food though not as often as the larger kittens...so I was wondering how do I know if they're too small for their age and what I need to do if they are. Thanks


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## Jeanie

If their little tummies are rounded after they eat, and they are playing actively, I think they'll be fine.  Of course, I know you're watching them carefully! It's obvious that you're enjoying them and taking good care of them. Isn't it neat to watch them mature. It's great fun to watch them play....and climb your legs when you're eating! OUCH!  

They can't continue to gain weight as fast as when newborn, or they'd grow up to be tiger size  !


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## Vyxxin

Yeah, their bellies are nice and round...I knew to check for that  Thanks for the reply, I'm doing my best to keep them in good health and happy. We take them out a few times a week and have them handled by the whole family (ages 11, 12, 16, 19, and 37) They love their "out" time  And you're right, they're just so fun to watch too...they get into everything! If you're sitting on the couch they'll use your legs as a ramp...just SO much fun


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## Vyxxin

A quick question...Din's spay date has been moved to April 27th which will make the kittens 7.5weeks old. Ideally I would've had her spayed at a later date BUT my vet outright refused to do her bloodwork (due to her aggressive nature) until she's spayed as she will already be under for the operation and this will make things easier for them. Being that there are so many cats in my area...some of which visit pretty regularly and have meals here...I really wanted to get her testing done ASAP.

So the questions are, is this okay? Will everything (and everyone) be okay if she is spayed this early in the kittens life? What do I need to do for the kittens after she is spayed? Should they stay with her once she comes out of her operation? I already mentioned dissolving sutures...antibiotics...and ear tipping (which I had to explain to my vet as they'd never heard of it)...is there anything I'm forgetting? I DO plan to remind them of everything that needs done while she's there...just so they don't forget  

Like I said, I'm doing my best...ideally I would've let her just go until the kittens were about 10-12 weeks...but like I said, they outright refused me today! I was SO mad...but I understand their view on it too I guess. I would've just went to another vet, but the only other local vet has a fairly bad reputation. Any thoughts on all this?


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## Vyxxin

Took everyone's five week pictures late last night  Some of them got a bit quirky, and starting "attacking" my hand (which I was using to try and get their attention for picture purposes)

Up first is the super model of the group, she's a real sassy girl with lots of love for people










Next, the tabby w/white...he's a chunker (the one who was stealing mom's food) and a big trouble maker with the other kittens










Then the lighter of the meezers, she's a laid back little girl with a BIG voice. She's the first one out of the door a LOT and likes to be on your lap.


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## Vyxxin

Here is the tiger male...he's "stalking" my hand and getting all excited about the "hunt"  Usually though he's the most laid back kitten of them all and usually a real sissy pants.


















THEN, the black and white one...I don't know WHAT she was thinking last night but boy was she motoring around like crazy...zooming from one side of the room to the next non-stop! I had to snap a zillion pictures as she was semi-paused and managed to get a few that were acceptable


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## Vyxxin

Finally...my little princess  She is SUCH a pretty girl, and so smart (most of the time) Boy was she in a mood last night!


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## Heidi n Q

Ooooh, I love them at that age! I miss having a litter around...they are so fun to watch them play.
Heidi


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## Jeanie

Sigh.....Me too! They are so funny and cute. :heart You know, if we walked into Vyxxin's house, we'd be running out with an armful of kittens! :lol:


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## Jeanie

Vyxxin, the kittens should be (and I know one is) eating solid food by the time Mother cat gets spayed. Most probably are by now. I'm afraid that at 7 1/2 weeks they might be too much for her sore tummy. However, if there's one small kitten, allowing her to nurse might help any discomfort Mother has from having too much milk. She might not allow the kittens to nurse anyway.

I like to see the kittens stay with mother cat until they're older, if possible, but I think I told you that the shelters want them young..if any have to go to a no-kill shelter. It's best to wait until they're 12 weeks, if possible, mostly to learn from mother and littermates. They are usually weaned earlier than that. Mother, of course, should be kept quiet and away from the kittens as she heals. (with the possible exception of the smallest kitten, and only if the vet says it's ok.) 

One of the cats I rescued was pregnant and after having 6 kittens, could not deliver the 7th. The vet did a C section, and since the kittens were newborn, allowed her to nurse them. However, your precious kittens will be much stronger and rougher than newborns. 

Is Mother Cat not getting friendly with you?


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## Vyxxin

Out of the litter of six, at least three have been seen eating solid and soft foods. The other three can eat soft foods. As far as Din goes, she's getting a LOT better with humans...BUT still very unpredictable. She was being petted (at her will, not forcibly) one day last week and just turned for no reason and started going crazy biting/clawing  She does this...

As far as the kittens go, out of the litter of six, four that I know of WILL have homes. The other two will stay here until they find a home, that's not a problem. Which is why I asked if they should go back to their mother or stay by themselves. I'll speak with the vet about (at the very least) the smallest female going back with the mother for a bit.

Any thoughts on all this? Am I making a huge mistake?


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## Jeanie

I have an idea that you Mother Cat has had some contact with human beings. Otherwise, I doubt she would allow you to touch her at all. Just make sure that every encounter is a pleasant one. Obviously, she is not warning her kittens to run from you. They are acting like normal kittens, so I wouldn't worry about the bad influence.  

If they were acting like ferals, they would be hissing, scratching, and mother would be trying to tear you apart. Just take your time. No shelter will take an untamed feral adult. They don't have the time or staff to tame them. So, they're pts, for the most part.  I think you're doing very well, Vyxxin; I really do.


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## Vyxxin

Thanks, I'm trying  The reason I don't want to adopt Din out is because I'd feel terrible if she attacked someone else. I don't want to take her to the shelter...because if she lashed out just once they'd put her to sleep...and if they adopted her out, again, she could hurt someone. As far as staying here goes...if she were a really friendly cat it wouldn't be an issue. BUT, I have a special needs chihuahua...he's only about 5lbs at his heaviest and he's crippled in his front legs. He cannot properly defend himself should she decide to up and attack him...he's been a family member here before I ever knew Din. It wouldn't be fair to him...so that leaves the great outdoors unfortuneately (I'm not overly fond of outdoor cats...just don't think it's the best thing for them or the ecosystem) But, the neighbor has a ton of outdoor cats...and I would provide her shelter and food...just my only option at this point. Of course, I'm exhausting all other possibilities first  I've considered adopting her out to a single pet household...with no children...who are willing to accept that she may never be fully "tame" or remotely predictable.

Still, she'll be indoors as long as she is needed for the kittens...and won't be released until a suitable shelter is made/bought. I realize that if she were feral that she'd be a LOT meaner and the kittens may need separated early...but you're absolutely right...she can be petted (when she's not biting/clawing) and her kittens are just like any other normal kitten that's been raised in a pet setting (I'm pretty sure). I took her to the vet recently, because when I called they said they could do her bloodwork (which when I arrived, they sent me away as I said) and I was SO proud of her behavior...she got a treat  She was SO well behaved for her...if I weren't so afraid she could randomly attack/hurt another household member (such as the children or the puppy) I'd just keep her and let her live on her terms...I just don't know what to do about her


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## Heidi n Q

Jeanie said:


> You know, if we walked into Vyxxin's house, we'd be running out with an armful of kittens! :lol:


Apologies in advance...but _I_ would be running out of the house with an armful of kittens. _You_ would be on the floor because I tripped you to distract Vyxxin while I got away!


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## Vyxxin

You know...two of them aren't spoken for yet LOL! Seems everyone wants females...the one male (the tabby) is such a sweetie pie, if nobody adopts him he'll stay here. He's a real "mommy's boy" loves to be in your lap...or just near you...and he does it quitely and calmly...just loves the closeness I guess.

I'll be so lost once they're all adopted out...it'll be weird not having them here.


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## Heidi n Q

I always hated taking the kittens to the adoption center. BUT, I knew they would be found great homes and I was already overrun with cats and knew I couldn't keep them all. 
I got to have them at the BEST time, when they were babies and so cute...

My mother always said if kittens would just stay kittens, she'd have kept every single one of them!

I'd like to get my numbers (11) down to a more manageable amount, but it seems like every time we lose a kitty, some new stray comes along that needs us. We must have a sign on the roof of the house that only cats can see... "suckers live here" ... more like: "big-hearted cat-lovers live here" ...


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## Vyxxin

If I ever decided to do cat rescue on a permanent basis (as this was just an "accident" that I couldn't turn away) I think that'd be the best thing and would make it so much easier (having them when they're kittens) 11 cats huh? Wow! I don't know how I would ever live with that many cats  We have two "regulars" that visit us from next door...and several others that take shelter in our shed...then Din and her kittens which will all soon be finding homes (except the one). I like animals though, and am always taking in something that needs a place to go, even if only for a while. Up until the kitties arrived, it was pretty lonely around here to be honest...now it's always busy and something new and exciting is happening with the kittens


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## Jeanie

Vyxxin, aren't you keeping the little seal point Siamese mix?


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## Vyxxin

> then Din and her kittens which will all soon be finding homes (except the one)


Yep, that'd be the one...pretty sure it's a female...the tabby is a male. I'd never intended to keep a male, but he's so darn sweet I couldn't do anything but, if he doesn't find a home (which I surely hope he does). They'll both be fixed, either way, if they stay here till they're six months...of course they'll be separated.


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## Heidi n Q

I would like to comment that the most fun I had was watching the siblings together (2bros, 1sis). They did EVERYTHING together; eat, play, sleep and they always kept each other company, or annoyed all-heck outta each other but came right back to loving each other, too.
If I ever became catless and had to begin again, I'd want to adopt a litter of 5. They grow up being so close to each other, it isn't at all like adopting different cats at different times. They just don't have the bond that being raised together creates.


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