# Emma's in heat and she can't be spayed! Help!



## KKdaniels (Aug 23, 2010)

So my Emma has a diaphragmatic hernia and may not can even have the surgery if I could afford it, as two docs have said that it's very, very complicated and she may not make it through; so that's one thing. My latest issue is that when I took her to get her spayed, I then found out that no vet would touch her because of her "issues," being the breathing issue when putting her under. So she can't be spayed now. Dear God, help me. Or just shoot me! I don't know which.  

Three weeks ago she was in heat for the first time, and now it's her second cycle. I don't know who's more miserable, me or her. But she's just pitiful. So the vet suggested this to fool her into thinking she's mated; to take the end of a pencil eraser and gently tap her little rear area back there a few time, nothing inserted at all, but it's just supposed to stimulate them into thinking they've mated and with any luck, they'll go out of heat.

Has anyone ever heard of such a thing? And if so, does it work? If not, do you think it's okay to try it? I feel strange about this, but if it would help her, or the both of us, I might be willing to try it. 

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Any other ideas? Why can't they just make a pill! :?


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## MowMow (Nov 6, 2010)

KKdaniels said:


> to take the end of a pencil eraser and gently tap her little rear area back there a few time......


@[email protected]

I think I'll stick to the boy cats where I can just give them a shove and say "Put that thing away!"


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## toonces33 (Apr 20, 2009)

KKdaniels said:


> I don't know who's more miserable, me or her. But she's just pitiful.


I know what you mean - one time we had to go out and get a hotel room for a night so we could get a good nights sleep. But my wife knew someone at the hotel and they gave us the room for free.

In our case we were able to have her spayed, so that problem won't come up again. I had read about a Q-tip procedure that is kind of of like what you describe, but we never seriously considered it, so I can't really say much about the pros and cons.

Can you keep the kitty in a different room at night so you can at least get some sleep?


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## KKdaniels (Aug 23, 2010)

MowMow said:


> @[email protected]
> 
> I think I'll stick to the boy cats where I can just give them a shove and say "Put that thing away!"


:thumb HA! Absolutely! Come to think of it, we didn't even know if she was a boy or a girl until we got her home. We rescued her from the side of the road, so we had no choice!


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## Jan Rebecca (Oct 14, 2010)

You have my full sympathy. My Satin just spent over a week in heat and believe me - it was miserable for us both. She went today to get spayed... good luck with yours.. I hope you get something figured out.


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## KKdaniels (Aug 23, 2010)

toonces33 said:


> I know what you mean - one time we had to go out and get a hotel room for a night so we could get a good nights sleep.
> Can you keep the kitty in a different room at night so you can at least get some sleep?


I'm about at that point! I just had her in the bathroom, and she cries worse in there than if she's out. This seems to be a no-win situation right now. 

I wouldn't dare insert anything inside her. I wouldn't go there either. I've heard of what you're talking about, and that's not a consideration for me at all. Maybe someone else will chime in. Thanks!


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## KKdaniels (Aug 23, 2010)

I hope I figure something out soon too, Jan, or we'll both be crazy.

The first time she was only in heat for four days, so not too bad, but today is day four, and I've got a feeling it's going to last longer this time. Do you know how many times she'll go in and out of heat? I know it's usually during the spring and fall, right? But how many times, like how long will this go on? Any idea? She's trying to find a way to crawl through the glass in my bedroom window right now. Oh, Lordy! This is serious.


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

If you don't 'relieve' her, her hormones will drive her nuts...she can go into multiple heat cycles with barely a break in between because her body needs to mate. She will also drive you nuts. In addition, you risk her getting out to go find some nooky. Her drive to mate will make her very creative about trying to find a way outside. And that will present not only the danger of outdoors, but it sounds as if a pregnancy would be dangerous in her condition. So you need to get over your squeamishness and help her out.


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## Greenport ferals (Oct 30, 2010)

There is a cat just like yours at the group home where I work. When we took this resident's cat to be fixed at the local spay clinic, they said it was too risky because of her breathing issues. 

We went to a second vet to see what could be done. This vet said there was a way to put the cat under with less risk, but the cost would be "about $350." 
It involved tubing her so she could breathe through the operation. The resident could not afford that.

In fact, this cat, an indoor cat all her life, is 10 years old. As long as I've known her she goes into heat about 10 times a year. It is a miserable time for her and us too. As she gets older she has more and more peeing issues. She will go almost anywhere when in heat. 

It is a tough call, but I would save and save and find a vet to safely spay your cat.


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## KKdaniels (Aug 23, 2010)

doodlebug said:


> If you don't 'relieve' her, her hormones will drive her nuts...So you need to get over your squeamishness and help her out.


Doodlebug, that's why I posted the question! It's not so much that I'm squeamish about it - although I'm still not too sure about the Q-tip deal yet - but what idea do you have? The Q-tip idea can't be the only one, I would think. I'm by myself with her, so whatever method I use, I need to be able to handle it alone. Not everything is so cut and dry to me. And I'm well aware of the dangers that lurk outside. And of course she cannot handle a pregnancy. I'm desparate; that's why I'm here. Maybe I should try another vet. I want the right answers, though, not just a variety of them. Thanks!


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## Vivid Dawn (May 31, 2010)

I agree with Greenport... save so you can do it, even if it has to be a specialized vet and special equipment. Besides cutting down annoyances (for you and her), spaying also lessens chances of cancer in the "female" parts (usually mammary cancer and ovarian cancer).


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## KKdaniels (Aug 23, 2010)

I will definitely get a second opinion on that. Thank you very much for sharing that experience with me. Maybe there's still hope yet. I just have to be as sure as I can be that it will be safe for her and her condition.


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

KKdaniels said:


> Doodlebug, that's why I posted the question! It's not so much that I'm squeamish about it - although I'm still not too sure about the Q-tip deal yet - but what idea do you have? The Q-tip idea can't be the only one, I would think. I'm by myself with her, so whatever method I use, I need to be able to handle it alone. Not everything is so cut and dry to me. And I'm well aware of the dangers that lurk outside. And of course she cannot handle a pregnancy. I'm desparate; that's why I'm here. Maybe I should try another vet. I want the right answers, though, not just a variety of them. Thanks!


The q-tip method is the widely accepted method from what I understand. Tapping a pencil in the vaginal area doesn't seem like it would be effective. But don't take advice on this from online sources...talk to your vet about it. They can demonstrate the proper 'technique' for you. I would assume all it entails would be to put some vaseline on the q-tip and knowing how far to insert it (marking the q-tip would probably be a good idea) and the angle to insert it at. 

Although, since your vet is the one who recommended the pencil, maybe talking to a different vet would be advisable.


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## catloverami (Jul 5, 2010)

I did have to use the Q-tip technique with a female who was too young to be bred and she was driving my stud cat nuts with her trilling and callling. Don't use vaseline or any lubrication, as she will be lubricated on her own. It's been many years since I did it, but I don't recall you have to insert the Qtip very far, maybe 1/2 inch or so, as the male penis isn't over an inch. The penis actually has backward-facing barbs on it, and that's what stimulates the female to ovulate, and for her to cry out in pain. Actually, as I recall I had to insert the Qtip a few times and several times a day. Females tend to come in heat for anywhere from 4-10 days' duration and can come in continually ever 2 wks. or less for months. Some will go out of heat for a few months and then come back in again. And yes they want to mark and spray when they're in heat. Mating takes them out of heat, but you certainly don't want that to happen with your girl. Females in heat can certainly drive you nuts, and bother other cats as well. Give us an update.


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## KKdaniels (Aug 23, 2010)

doodlebug said:


> Although, since your vet is the one who recommended the pencil, maybe talking to a different vet would be advisable.


I'll be speaking with another vet today for sure, and I'll ask him about those techniques and if he thinks there's any way at all she can be spayed. I'll give an update when I talk to him. I need some good news! Thanks.


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## KKdaniels (Aug 23, 2010)

Catloverami,

Thanks for letting me know that. So it can be done and it work! I tried to get her in a position today, and she will not be still. She keeps scooting around and rolling over. How in the world do I keep her still enough to use the Q-tip? I don't have any help here! Can you give me some tips on how you did it? It would be much appreciated. Thanks!


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## catloverami (Jul 5, 2010)

Put her up on a table or bathroom counter. Grab her by the scruff of her neck with your hand, and hold her down. She will just tread with her hind feet with her bum raised, and you should be able to control her from rolling over, or sit on the floor and hold her between your legs to keep her from rolling while you're inserting the Q-tip but keep a firm grip on the back of her neck. Good luck!


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## kitari (Dec 3, 2008)

Is there such a thing as marbling for a cat? I know with horses you are able to put a "marble" in the uterous that makes their bodies think they are pregnant and they will no longer go into heat. is there a procedure for cats like that?


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## catloverami (Jul 5, 2010)

Never heard of it for cats.


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## raecarrow (Oct 27, 2009)

kitari said:


> Is there such a thing as marbling for a cat? I know with horses you are able to put a "marble" in the uterous that makes their bodies think they are pregnant and they will no longer go into heat. is there a procedure for cats like that?


I think it is just cheaper to spay then to create an IUD for cats. The "marble" for horses (or the rock they would use for camels so they wouldn't get pregnant on a long nomadic journey) is basically an IUD. Another problem, camels and horses have uteruses similar to a human, a uterus made for 1 baby at a time, sometimes two. Cats and dogs have Y shaped uterus, like shown below, made for holding MANY babies. They can carry babies in the center and up in the "uterine horns". So it would be very likely that even if they did have an IUD that an embryo can implant elsewhere in the uterus.


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## Xanti (Nov 4, 2008)

I was reading about a feline contraception 'pill' It is added to their food and stops them going into heat.

Of course, as with all hormones, there are side effects, but I guess it might be better than risking a pregnancy. 

This also seems awesome for feral colonies. here is the website:

Frequently Asked Questions about FeralStat: Feline Contraceptive


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## KKdaniels (Aug 23, 2010)

Well, just got back from the vet, a different one this time, and I got a second opinion on the hernia and the spaying. He said it's, of course, always a risk with any surgery when an animal can breath normally, but with Emma it's definitely more risky. He would recommend we try the surgery, though. He's done 30-something of them, and "most" of them made it. He makes no guarantees, as I understand why. The good news is that he's cutting the cost to $500 instead of the $1,000 that the first vet charged. That's a lot easier on the pocketbook, so I'd better get busy saving. I just pray she makes it when I can afford it. I will feel so sick and sad if she doesn't make it. I don't want to be the cause of anything happening to her! I would not get over it very well at all. This little girl has won my heart over big time!!!

On the spaying, he suggests they both be done at the same time, the hernia surgery and the spay, as she doesn't need to be compromised again that way if not necessary. 

So he said the Q-tip method or a glass thermometer, which is what he used in the office, might work. It doesn't always work, but it's worth a try. He made it look so easy. I can't hold her still. Even grabbing her by the neck, she still twisted and turned. And there's no fooling this little girl. Not yet anyway. As soon as she hit the floor when we got home, she's already started rolling around anything she can find. Lord help me!!! And her!!! I'll try it again later and see if I can get the Q-tip in. So there's the update. Thanks, everyone, for chimming in. I really appreciate it! If I have success with the Q-tip, I'll let you know. I should be a pro by then!


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

I would guess that scruffing her neck a little roughly might help, since the first step to mating is the boy biting the back of her neck. I have no experience with this, though.

Good luck on saving up for the surgery! It will definitely be a huge relief to her (and you!)


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## KKdaniels (Aug 23, 2010)

Thanks for the info on the "pill." I will call about it and see if I can purchase it in a smaller amount. By reading it, sounds like you have to buy a lot! It's worth a phone call!


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## KKdaniels (Aug 23, 2010)

paperbacknovel said:


> Good luck on saving up for the surgery! It will definitely be a huge relief to her (and you!)


The vet called and said he was thinking about it more, and he thinks that he can bag her and spay her quickly if I want to try it, then wait on the hernia surgery for now. Again, no guarantees on her surviving. Now what? Do I or don't I! This is one of the toughest decisions I've ever made. 
:-(


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## catloverami (Jul 5, 2010)

Geez....tough decision is right! IMHO, if I were in your position I would _wait until she's out of heat_ (she will come out of it eventually!) and then get her spayed as there is more risk to spay when in heat, and don't think that's worth taking an extra risk.


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## Dave_ph (Jul 7, 2009)

KKdaniels said:


> So he said the Q-tip method or a glass thermometer, which is what he used in the office, might work.


Oh My. I've heard of that. I wouldn't try it when Fay was in heat even though I live in one of the few states where that sort of thing is legal.

I'm sensing a business opportunity here. Tiny little kitty "massagers".


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## KKdaniels (Aug 23, 2010)

catloverami said:


> Geez....tough decision is right! IMHO, if I were in your position I would _wait until she's out of heat_ (she will come out of it eventually!) and then get her spayed as there is more risk to spay when in heat, and don't think that's worth taking an extra risk.


You are so right. Yes, I'll have to wait until she's out of heat. I hope it's soon.

So picture this: I also had to take Tiger, my male cat, to the vet yesterday as he had a bad abscess after probably getting into a fight outside, so he's in the bathroom because he's draining - gross - but he can't stand it and wants to be out in the house or outside. Then there's Emma with her crying for a mate. So my cats are in stero! Where's that Calgon! And it's not like I can get away from them either. I work at home and it's constant noise. Geeeez, will this ever end!


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## Dave_ph (Jul 7, 2009)

KKdaniels;721135. I will feel so sick and sad if she doesn't make it. I don't want to be the cause of anything happening to her! I would not get over it very well at all. This little girl has won my heart over big time!!!
[/QUOTE said:


> You're doing what's best for her. I had a complicated issue with a cat who was improperly spayed before I got her and she started going in to heat.
> 
> My vet, the best cat vet in the world and honorary crazy cat lady (12 cats at home), said that if Fay didn't get pregnant she could end up almost permenantly in heat and that's brutal on their health. Fay had to have complicated full open surgery that lasted for hours because they had to find bits of tissue the original vet who spayed her left behind. That had to be done while Fay was in heat and the tissue was inflamed. Extra time in surgery and extra bleeding.
> 
> ...


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## KKdaniels (Aug 23, 2010)

Dave_ph said:


> You're doing what's best for her.


Dave, deep in my heart I know that is true. But if I lose her, I fear I'll never forgive myself. See, both vets have told me that "some" cats do live many years with a hernia like hers, so in my mind, if I lose her, I'll think I shouldn't have done it because maybe she would have been one to live ten years. You know what I mean? It' like damned if I do and damned if I don't. It's really terrible. She's not suffering now because of her hernia, and they don't know exactly when something could happen either, so I have no definite timeline as to when I've got to do the surgery; although, I think the sooner the better. 

That's awesome that your kitty made it through her complicated surgery. Wow, for the vet to be cured of trying that again says a lot. 

I love to hear happy endings! Thanks, Dave.


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## Dave_ph (Jul 7, 2009)

KKdaniels said:


> . She's not suffering now because of her hernia,
> I love to hear happy endings! Thanks, Dave.


But she is suffering because of the in-heat. They go thru ****.


Guilt, you want to know guilt. 

When I was a rookie cat butler, just a month or so after I adopted Fay from a neighbor because of her 'behavior issues' (spraying, howling wanting to get outside) I came home and found kitty poop on my bed. When I went to clean it up Fay came over and did it again. So, thinking she had a bad attitude I yelled at her. Just one VERY loud VERY strong NO!!! She ran away and vomited. That made me feel pretty guilty but it get's worse. When we figured out that Fay was going into heat despite the spay scar my vet told me she did the poop thing because she was under tremendous stress from being in heat. I've never so much as raised my voice to a cat again. They've both been so pampered since that day. They don't even know what a water bottle is.


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## KKdaniels (Aug 23, 2010)

Dave_ph said:


> But she is suffering because of the in-heat. They go thru ****.


Oh, yes, I know she's stressed tremendously right now. I was just speaking of the difficulty regarding the hernia surgery. That was my original issue with Emma before I found out that she shouldn't or couldn't be spayed because of it. I hate seeing her go through this. I cry for her as much as she is crying; for different reasons, of course. If I can't find another solution, I feel sure I'll have to bite the bullet and try for the spay surgery. She can't go on like this. It can't be any quality of life living in heat.

And I agree with you about yelling at animals. I can't do it either. This is, and there are many ways, one of the ways they communicate and tell us things. I really try and pay attention to everything they do. It helps me to understand them. With me and Emma, it's almost like we have this mental telepathy thing going on sometimes. I've never been this "connected" to a kitty before. Quite strange, but I do love it.

Sometimes situations are stressful for all involved, but they are defensless in doing anything about their situation and depend solely on us. We're here to help them and make their lives better and happier and healthier, if we can. But decisions such as these are something I've never been good at.


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