# Antifreeze Poisoning?



## tigressbythetail (Dec 1, 2010)

I hope everyone has had a fun Valentine's Day. Mine has been awful. It appears as though two of my cats have been poisoned, and all indicators point to antifreeze, though conclusive tests have not yet confirmed. 

Lady came in Saturday at noon, stumbling and walking funny. She pulled herself up into a chair. I rushed her to the Vet's office within 30 minutes but I'm thinking now I should have taken to the emergency clinic because her labs didn't come back till today. He asked me a lot of questions regarding possible exposure to poisons, but there was nothing I could pinpoint. Her heart was beating fast, and she was having tremors. He took a complete lab panel and sent us home with some Valium, telling me to get her to the emergency clinic if her gums became pale. Well, her gums never really got pale but I was sure she was going to die Saturday night, passed the point of needing medical help other than help leaving more quickly. So I didn't take her because I didn't want to face that decision just then. But Sunday morning she was much better. She was up and walking, drinking water on her own and she even ate. 

Monday morning before I had the chance to call the Vet's office to ask about Lady's labs, Nellie woke throwing up a little. Afterward, she seemed a little dazed and when she got down off the chair, she wobbled and fell over on her side. I put her back on her feet and she stumbled over to the water bowl. She was acting just like Lady did on Saturday. I was about to flip out but managed to get my act together enough to put her in her cat carrier and get her to the Vet's office. That's where she's at now, but he doesn't expect her to live. Lab's show kidney problems in both, Nellie more than Lady, and high (or was it low?) glucose levels suggesting antifreeze poisoning. Waiting for further testing to confirm it.

But something just doesn't seem right about this being antifreeze poisoning. From my understanding, symptoms of antifreeze poisoning show up within a few hours of ingestion. Nellie came into eat Sunday night after playing with a spider and showed no signs that anything was wrong. Symptoms came on suddenly Monday morning. It would have been at least twelve hours since exposure with no symptoms. I also read that with antifreeze poisoning, after the initial symptoms present, they appear to recover for a day or so and then go down again. I hope that's not the case with Lady. 

Other cats are at risk here, and I am a nervous wreck. I'm afraid to let them outside, but they've been used to coming in and out all their lives and they are making me more miserable than I already am. Try eleven annoyed cats all in the same house, plus one that is recovering from poisoning, two ferals that just come home from being S/N and have to recover indoors...Well, you can imagine how much fun I'm having.

We have searched the entire property, plus the neighbors for clues and found none. Gone up and down the street asking people if they were working on their cars or possibly had antifreeze sitting around open. Negative. 

Does this sound like it could be something other than antifreeze?


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## RachandNito (Nov 21, 2008)

I am thinking rat poison... is there a possibility they could have gotten into that?



> Rat Poisoning in Cats
> Bromethalin Rodenticide Poisoning in Cats
> 
> Bromethalin rodenticide toxicity, more commonly referred to as rat poisoning, occurs when an animal is exposed to the chemical bromethalin, a toxic substance that is found in a variety of rat and mice poisons. Ingestion of bromethalin can lead to cerebral edema (the accumulation of excess water in the brain), and an increase in pressure of cerebrospinal fluid - the liquid within the membrane of the skull that the brain essentially floats in. A variety of neurological-based symptoms can result from this, including muscle tremors, seizures, and impaired movement.
> ...


http://www.petmd.com/cat/conditions/toxicity/c_ct_bromethalin_rodenticide_toxicity


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## Greenport ferals (Oct 30, 2010)

First, I am sorry for what you and your much-loved cats are going through. I am glad the first cat is recovering and I hope Nellie will rebound. 

I don't know anything about the climate in Modesto, but was there any chemical spraying of lawns or fields at this time of year? What about that spider Nellie was playing with? There are poisonous spiders throughout the U.S. For instance, there could have been a recent hatch, and both cats could have been bitten by something fairly exotic but not unheard of. 

If the labs point conclusively to anti-freeze, consider that it may have been accidental in nature, something that happened on your street by a random car breaking down, etc., since none of your neighbors seem to be involved. 

It is really tough to figure out all the places your cats may have visited and what they may have been exposed to that has caused such harm.


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## tigressbythetail (Dec 1, 2010)

We don't use rat poison, neither does my nearest neighbor but I won't rule out anything. Could they be poisoned from eating a poisoned rodent? Symptoms sound similar to antifreeze. The timing between exposure and symptoms fits better, but then I just read on Petplace that depending on how much antifreeze they ingested, it could take up to twelve hours for symptoms to show up, contrary to what I had read elsewhere. 

The spider...I mentioned that to the Vet because I remember reading about how toxic some normal everyday spiders are to cats if they eat them. It scared the life out of me. I called her into the house as soon as I saw her playing with it. I don't know about the odds of them both eating a spider, but then I wouldn't have bet on them both getting antifreeze poisoning either. 

This weekend was abnormally warm for Modesto in February. At this point I guess anything is possible. I guess I'm not going to hear anything more tonight. I wish I had gone to see Nellie before the Vet closed. Hope she makes it through the night. If she doesn't, should I have a necropsy done? I'm so worried about the rest of my bratz.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

(((_hugs and purrayers_)))


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## tigressbythetail (Dec 1, 2010)

My sweet, shy little girl didn't make it. She would have been two in April.


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## Abbie (Jan 13, 2011)

I'm so so sorry to hear that, she was so young. What dreadful news, I hope you find out what caused it if only for a warning for other cat owners in your area. You did everything you did for her, and loved her very much. x


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## Pawsitively Nicole (Feb 12, 2011)

I am so sorry! How is lady doing? What a horrible week you and your kitties are having. 

I am sorry about Nellie. I can tell that you very much cared about her. Relax and feel peace sweet Nellie.


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## Jan Rebecca (Oct 14, 2010)

Oh no - I'm so sorry - have you figured out what was wrong?


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## tigressbythetail (Dec 1, 2010)

Still nothing conclusive, but Vet is sending her kidneys out to be analyzed. I really had myself believing she would pull through because Lady has. I had them both into the Vet within 30 minutes of showing symptoms. Nellie was treated much more aggressively than Lady, and she's the one that didn't make it. Yes, I need to know exactly what this was for my other babies. 

Lady continues to recover. I'm taking her for a follow up today. My main concern for her is that her body is so cool to the touch. I'm keeping her warm on an electric blanket. 

Thank you all for your comforting words.


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## Julie Carvill (Jun 30, 2010)

I am so sorry for your loss. I hope we find out what happened.


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## my5kitties (Sep 13, 2005)

I am so sorry about the loss of your sweet, beautiful Nellie. I hope you're able to get some answers so Nellie's death won't have been in vain. *hugs*


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

I'm so sorry to hear about Nellie. That's such a tragedy, especially given how young she was. I too hope you're able to get some answers and that Lady is back to good health soon.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

I'm so sorry for your loss. (((hugs)))


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## Kobster (Feb 1, 2007)

I'm really sorry for your tragic loss of Nellie. I hope Lady continues to recover.


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## tigressbythetail (Dec 1, 2010)

Just got Lady's second set of labs back and they look worse than they did last Saturday. Today she hasn't been nearly as active and she wouldn't eat. I'm going to lose her too and there's nothing to do. The Vet said at this point treatment was pointless. It might prolong her life a little but the result will be the same. I know I asked him what to expect but for the life of me I can't remember what he said. 

I'm wiped out. Physically and emotinally, not to mention financially but if he had offered me any hope, I would have gone with it, but there's not. 

Lady was one of the feral mothers of my nine bratz. Two years ago you would never believe how tame and sweet Lady has become. Nellie was so much like her, so sweet, shy and mellow. I don't recall Nellie so much as hissing at her siblings or anyone else. She was the perfect little lady, just like her mother. I lost one of my nine lives when Nellie died Monday. I'm so sick at heart I don't know what to do with myself.


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## Deb (Feb 8, 2011)

I am so sorry! I don't understand why the Vet can't figure out the problem with Lady. This is just terrible. I'm also sorry about the loss of Nellie. Surely there is a way to find out what happened or you may lose more!!


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

Oh, man. I'm so sorry. (((_more hugs_)))


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## Carmel (Nov 23, 2010)

This is tragic... I'm so sorry, they're both so young, too. And when you take the time to tame a cat I think it feels even worse to lose them. I hope the vet is able to find out exactly what happened to your poor babies, I don't think I'd ever be able to let a cat out in the same area again without knowing...


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## Pineapple (Oct 24, 2010)

I am so sorry. I know how hard this must be. We lost our 6 y/o cat to kidney failure last year (she got into a flower arrangement), and it was the worst experience of my life. I can only imagine going through it with 2 of your babies in such a short period. (((hugs)))


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## Pawsitively Nicole (Feb 12, 2011)

Oh Lady, poor baby. I'm at a loss for words, my heart breaks for you and your kitties.


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## OsnobunnieO (Jun 28, 2004)

I'm so sorry for everything you've gone through. It sounds very much like antifreeze to me. We see several cases in dogs at the clinic I work at, but I can only think of one cat. Sadly, from the reading we had done at that time it seems cats don't typically respond as well to treatment, especially if it is not started immediately.

I assume when you say bloodwork was worse, it was showing kidney failure? Typically with antifreeze poisoning they act "drunk" initially and depending on the amount that was ingested can become much worse, have seizures, etc or they can start to look a little better before they decline again. Initial bloodwork doesn't show much, but there is a test specifically for antifreeze (ethylene glycol) that will give a definate answer as long as it is run in the proper amount of time... I want to say it shows positive within 30 minutes to an hour or so and up to about 12 hours after ingestion. However, the organs will suffer damage and changes in bloodwork can often be seen in the first 24 hours.

If treatment is not started very quickly, the pet will stand very little chance at recovery.

I do not think rat poison is to blame in this situation. Most common rat poisons are anti-coagulants that cause bleeding disorders. You will usually see problems several days or weeks after ingestion - pale gums, labored breathing, weakness, because the animals are suffering from internal bleeding. 

With the timeline you describe, it sounds as if there may be antifreeze somewhere that they got into at two different times. When people think "poisoning" they often think it was something malicious, something that was fed to the pets on purpose. While its certainly possible, more commonly pets will find the liquid in nearby garages or from cars out on the street that may have leaked it. Even small amounts can be fatal.

One thing I do feel necessary to mention is that your vet did not run bloodwork in house. Do they have the capabilities? There are several practices in the area that do not have any in house blood machines and it breaks my heart that we often see cases come in over the weekend that presented to their vet a few days before, obviously ill, but had to wait for answers, often times they come in on a Friday and won't have answers until Monday. We often have to run bloodwork when they come in, essentially having the client pay a second time. And more often than not we find something very serious that could have been treated that day and had a better outcome than waiting until they pet declined enough to come into an ER, requiring much more intensive treatment. There are lots of tests for routine screenings and monitoring that are more cost effective to send to the lab, but in cases of acute illnesses I can't stress enough how important it is to have a vet with the ability to give you answers NOW. 

Until you can figure out where it may have come from, I would try to keep your other cats inside. I wish you lots of luck and have you in my thoughts!


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## shari (Jun 21, 2010)

<hugs> I'm new to the boards but not to cat ownership and your story is just breaking my heart. I'm so sorry for your loss.


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## tigressbythetail (Dec 1, 2010)

Oh man, I knew I should have taken her to the ER! But I looked at the clock and it was 12, and I knew my vet closed at 2 on Saturday so I rushed her there, as it was the closest place to go. I don't know why he didn't tell me the labs would not be in until Monday and how important it was to get those labs immediately. I've always trusted this Vet. He's been our vet for the passed 30 years but now I have doubts. He didn't mention antifreeze until her labs came back on Monday. When Nellie started having the same symptoms on Monday, I told him I needed to know what this was as I had other cats at risk. When Nellie died, they sent her kidneys out. Hopefully, I'll get some definitive answer from that. 

I know that even with aggressive treatment, cats don't usually make it. Nellie was treated immediately and she still didn't pull through but I would have liked to have had that option with Lady. Maybe it's time to find another Vet, one who specializes in cats. Before I was flooded with cats, all I had were dogs. Maybe he's better with dogs than cats. I don't know. I'm so confused and heartbroken. Since it was a Saturday I should have taken her directly to the emergency clinic. This really, really sucks. 

Jesse, how much time between ingestion and the symptoms of drunkeness? That was first and only sign with both of them.


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## Nan (Oct 11, 2010)

I'm so sorry for your loss! It's so tragic and heart-breaking.


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## tigressbythetail (Dec 1, 2010)

I had to send Lady to the Rainbow Bridge Saturday. 

It was definitely anti-freeze poisoning. The Vet advised filing a police report because he thinks its odd that two ended up dying from the same thing. I do have reason to suspect a neighbor but just imagining that someone may have done this intentionally makes me crazy.


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## Pawsitively Nicole (Feb 12, 2011)

I am so heart sick for you and furious! I know you don't know me but I am sending virtual hugs your way atback I hope someone did not do that to your cats because that would be so heartless and cruel! It makes me sick. It does seem coincidental how it happened and also that no other people's animals have gotten sick.

I know that Lady is pain free with Nellie. I bet they are curled up together, enjoying warm sunshine, sending love your way and remembering fondly all of the happy times they spent with you. I am so sorry.


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## tigressbythetail (Dec 1, 2010)

Thank you for the hugs, Pawsitively Nicole. I appreciate it. Tomorrow I am posting flyers asking for any information anyone may have regarding their poisoning. It likely won't do a bit of good but it will let those who may have committed this crime know that I know they did it. And maybe seeing a picture of my sweet little Nellie will give them a sleepless night or two, you never know. 

This is my worst nightmare.


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## LilRed (Jul 16, 2008)

I am so so sorry and I am angry too. I can not fathom how anyone could be so cruel or careless. I think its a very good idea to post flyers, file a police report and share this information with others in your area. I pray your other kitties are safe. And I pray for healing for your broken heart.


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## yellowdaisies (Jan 25, 2011)

Oh my, I just saw this thread....
I am so, so sorry for your loss.  I can't imagine what you must be going through.


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## Sinatra-Butters (Aug 9, 2010)

I am so sorry and angry at the same time! I cannot believe someone would do this to two precious kitties. I hope they catch that evil person.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

_*thoughts/prayers and hugs for you*_


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## tigressbythetail (Dec 1, 2010)

Thank you all for your words of comfort and support. My husband was home with me last week because we both had the flu but this week he is back to work and I feel so lost and heartsick I hardly know what to do with myself. My first defense is usually anger but for some reason it is failing me now. Instead I feel very exposed and vulnerable. Guess the cats are my weak spot and thinking someone may be hurting them to get to me makes me feel like finding a hole to hide in.

Anti-freeze poisoning happens to cats all the time and it's just an accident. I have no proof that this is other than an accident. Well, one cat poisoned is an accident...two a coincidence? The suspect neighbors have a dog that keeps getting in our yard and terrifying my cats. After about the dozenth time, I lost my patience and yelled at them. I've yelled at them more than once. My neighbor, who also has a cat, has yelled at them too, threatening to send the dog to the pound. These people seem to think they have the right to run through both properties chasing their dog and then have the nerve to tell us to keep our cats in the house. Sometimes I think they're doing it intentionally because the moment the dog gets free, she makes a b-line for our yard. Ironically, I have a sign posted in front of the house that says 'No Chains-Dogs Deserve Better.' Maybe they think it's funny. Maybe they think I'll yell at them to chain up their **** dog. No, instead I yell at them to build a fence so their dog is safe. I think the cruelest thing you can do to a dog is put them on a chain. Too often they are left on a chain to die, alone and forgotten. 

Sorry, I'm running on. Can people really be so petty? Someone tore the flyer down that I tacked to a pole near the mail boxes. It made me feel sick.


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## my5kitties (Sep 13, 2005)

tigressbythetail said:


> Someone tore the flyer down that I tacked to a pole near the mail boxes. It made me feel sick.


Put it back up. Every time it's taken down, put another one up. Or, even better, print up a bunch of the fliers and put them on people's doors.


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## tigressbythetail (Dec 1, 2010)

I just received an annonymous tip from a neighbor and the poisoner wasn't who I thought it was. He was told by another neighbor that the way to get rid of cats was to lace pieces of hot dogs with anti-freeze and throw them in the yard. 

I don't know what to do first. Vomit or grab my baseball bat.


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## Pawsitively Nicole (Feb 12, 2011)

Call the police! You said you made a police report right? Call them and tell them what you have been told and the name of your neighbor so that they can go interview this individual. That there is a witness, and just might give the police the spring board they need to solving this awful crime.


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## tigressbythetail (Dec 1, 2010)

I'm waiting for the investigating officer to come. In addition, this neighbor hung Nellie's cat collar on the fence. It was an old one that she had lost so I know she was in this monster's yard.

I know cats can be a nuisance to some people but my God, there are better ways of handling it than poisoning them. My two little girls did not deserve to die like this! I hope that ******* burns in ****!


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

tigressbythetail said:


> I hope that ******* burns in ****!


 Me, too. atback


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## Sinatra-Butters (Aug 9, 2010)

Me three! Keep us updated.


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## Kamie (Feb 12, 2011)

I have just read this thread and I just cannot believe it.

Firstly I just wanted to express how very very sorry I am that your poor friends were taken in such a horrible way.

Unfortunately there are people in the world that seem to derive some kind of sick pleasure from hurting animals or have no compunction killing other peoples pets just because they don't like them. I myself cannot understand a person with that kind of attitude (I cannot even bring myself to kill my most hated of all critters...the dreaded spider), nor would I want to.

What kind of sicko hangs the collar on the fence, seems like he's very proud of what he has done and has used it almost as a trophy and is certainly sending a message, hopefully his smugness will be his own undoing with the police.

I have to hand it to you girl for keeping so strong, if that ****** had hurt by cats, he would be drinking soup through a straw in intensive care right now (and I would have arranged for a few stay cat hairs to be in it as a little reminder).


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## tigressbythetail (Dec 1, 2010)

Kamie said:


> I have to hand it to you girl for keeping so strong, if that ****** had hurt by cats, he would be drinking soup through a straw in intensive care right now (and I would have arranged for a few stay cat hairs to be in it as a little reminder).


To tell you the truth Kamie, I'm known for having a very bad temper...slow to catch but when it does, watch out. But I originally believed that it was my temper that brought this down on my innocent kitties heads, and so I have been kinda in a frozen state. It's different when something you say or do brings bad consequences on to the innocent. I would much rather they had come after me directly and done whatever damage they thought they could do. But as it turns out, I had the wrong neighbor. I don't even know this guy. Luckily, I have some rational heads around me, most importantly my husband. We are playing it cool so that when we do go after this guy, it will all be legal. 

Today, the best husband in the world and the coolest nephew a woman could ever have took flyers around the neighborhood and talked to the neighbors about it. I get too emotional whenver I talke about it. I'm sure my sweet girls weren't the only two killed. He's probably been doing this for awhile. 

If I dont get some resolution through legal means, I'm afraid of what I will do. I lay awake at night thinking about this miserable excuse for a human being and how much I want to confront him. But I have to be cool about this or I'll end up in jail. And it's this ***** I want in jail so he can never hurt another animal.


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## tigressbythetail (Dec 1, 2010)

Update on the case. I talked to the officer investigating and he's had problems with the suspect before! So he is taking this seriously and he's going to go have a talk with this monster. Realistically, unless he finds anti-freeze injected hot dogs in his yard, there's nothing can be done legally but surely he will stop poisoning cats if he gets a visit from a cop. I wish there was something else I could do. I want justice for Lady and Nellie and any other cats he has done this to. 

Oh, my apologies to the moderaters for bad language. I will be careful from now on.


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## Fyreflie (Mar 5, 2011)

Wow, just read through this thread and WHAT A CREEP! I'm sorry about your kitties  Wicket had a hard time transitioning from being an outdoor cat to being an indoor cat but we live in a busier neighborhood than the one we came from and even though I would dearly love to let him go outside the prospect of a jerk like that (or even some unwitting person with an accidental spill) freaks me out more than the thought of keeping him inside for life--although if I had 9 cats, you can bet your boots they'd be going outside! 

Anyway, I had a cat die of antifreeze poisoning when I was in my teens and it was awful, I'm so sorry and I hope you guys nail that jerk! Good for you for raising awareness in your neighborhood and talking to the cops. If nothing else they'll be keeping a closer eye on him, although if he's as big of a douche as he sounds to be I'm sure he won't care, and will hopefully get caught in the act.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

tigressbythetail said:


> ... unless he finds anti-freeze injected hot dogs in his yard, there's nothing can be done legally ...
> I wish there was something else I could do.


Buy a package of cheap hotdogs and a bottle of antifreeze. Open the hotdogs and throw them away. Open the antifreeze, pour just a little down your drain, close it and place the empty hotdog package and bottle of antifreeze on that man's front porch or in front of his garage where an officer approaching would be sure to see it.

Oh, and wear gloves when handling the package/bottle. No fingerprints. 
You didn't hear this from me. :cool 

... do you think adding a syringe with antifreeze residue inside and hotdog residue on the needle to the previously mentioned items would be too over-the-top? 


_Disclaimer:_
_Doing any of these things is illegal. I am joking. Kinda._


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## tigressbythetail (Dec 1, 2010)

Heidi, you are a genius! That's EXACTLY what I'll do!!!!!!!! (Joking...kinda.)


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

atback


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

Late to the recent updates on this thread. It's just horrible to think someone would do that on purpose to your two innocent little babies. I hope something can be done to stop him from doing it to others, even though that won't bring Lady and Nellie back. Rest in peace little ones...you didn't deserve this.


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