# Munchkin Cats



## minskeep

Does anyone own any munchkins? I think they are the cutest things ever! lol. I plan on getting one in the future but I thought I would ask anyone on here if they have any first.

http://www.pictures-of-cats.org/munchkin-cat.html


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## catloverami

I don't own a Munchkin, but they are defnitely "cute"....like forever kittens. I guess one might call them the Dachsunds of the cat world. With their short legs, I think they would be ideal for owners who dislike cats jumping on kitchen counters, etc. I find it hard to believe that they could jump "as high as .. Ragdolls".


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## Heidi n Q

They're kitties and I will always love them because of that ... but in my heart I feel this is a breed (_and the extreme short faced breeds_) that should not be bred. I would like to see those traits bred out of cats. The short-faced animals have issues relating specifically to their anatomy and the munchkin cats will probably have similar back/disc/nerve-injury issues like the Dachsunds are prone to.


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## mimitabby

Heidi, you forgot to mention that Munchkins also have trouble doing normal cat stuff like jumping up on things (which might save their life) 
Why breed traits into an animal that make it harder for them to survive?


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## Heidi n Q

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you are saying?

Yes, if a cat jumps onto a hot gas stove it can be burned .... and on the other side of the coin, if a cat cannot jump to get away from a lethal threat .... it is just as injured/dead. 

IMO, cats have survived millenia and for the past couple hundred centuries or so ... have had little change made to them, though some changes have been detrimental (IMO) and the cats have survived and even thrived. _'Why change such a great design?'_ is my opinion.


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## Heidi n Q

Ack! Mimi! I need to apologize, I misunderstood your reply. Yes, I agree with you; if cats cannot jump and/or are limited in their abilities, motions and activities they are penalized in the areas of self-sufficiency, protection and safety. I feel the Munchkins, short-faced cats and most certainly the hairless breeds are disadvantaged if they were ever to escape their homes. Included in that helpless category would be any cats declawed and/or w/ no outdoor survival skills taught to them.

_I thought you were questioning *for* the other side of the argument. My apologies for misunderstanding._


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## mimitabby

I read your (#5) post and thought. Hmmm. Heidi, are you sleepy? Then your second only moments later... ah... she figured out what I meant.:mrgreen:


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## Heidi n Q

You are too kind! _Having posted at 4:30 in the afternoon, "sleepy" couldn't have been used as an excuse for me._ :mrgreen:


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## red.ninja13

I didnt realise there was a breed called munchkin, in my intro post I called my kitten a munchkin as thats a word in the UK for something small and cute (dunno if its the same in the US?)


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## marie73

It means the same thing here. I knew you meant small and cute.


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## Jeanie

I had a colleague at another forum who raised Munchkins. She seemed like a very responsible person, and never mentioned any problems. I think extreme changes to an animal's body is just about sure to cause a problem. For instance, the breeding of collies for a "sweet" eye, that is, a very small eye, led to vision problems, even blindiness from microphthalmic eyes.


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## FamHolter

I must say, it makes me slightly sad to read some of what you are saying. I own a persian. I adore her, but reading your replies make me feel like an extremely evil person. 

Also, my baby has never had any problems linking to her short snout. She doesn't snore, she can breathe just fine, she can eat just fine, in fact, she acts just like any other cat. And she has an extremely short face. Of course I have seen persians with breathing issues and excessive snoring, but I really feel this, as many things in, depends on the cat, and it's genes. My neighbour has a perfectly "normal" cat, with long legs and long snout, which has extensive breathing issues. She is "the ideal design", and yet, her airways are narrow. 

I don't know how things work in the states, but several persian breeders up here are working to keep the flat faces, and breed out the actual reason for the breathing problems - the narrow airways. 

I frankly find it hurts a bit that people so knowing as many people on this site doesn't see the difference between this. As I mentioned in another thread, my flat nosed, "imperfect" and messed with cat is the healthiest I have ever had. ANY cat can be flawed and sick, not just the "unusual" looking ones, and I have personally met many more "normal" cats with issues than persians.


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## Carmel

Munchkin cats... I honestly don't even consider them cute. They kind of freak me out. I'm sure they're just as loveable as any regular cat and if I had one I would love it, as I would with any cat... but they just look weird to me. It's a genetic defect and I really don't think they should be encouraged as a breed. 



FamHolter said:


> I must say, it makes me slightly sad to read some of what you are saying. I own a persian. I adore her, but reading your replies make me feel like an extremely evil person.
> 
> Also, my baby has never had any problems linking to her short snout. She doesn't snore, she can breathe just fine, she can eat just fine, in fact, she acts just like any other cat. And she has an extremely short face. Of course I have seen persians with breathing issues and excessive snoring, but I really feel this, as many things in, depends on the cat, and it's genes. My neighbour has a perfectly "normal" cat, with long legs and long snout, which has extensive breathing issues. She is "the ideal design", and yet, her airways are narrow.
> 
> I don't know how things work in the states, but several persian breeders up here are working to keep the flat faces, and breed out the actual reason for the breathing problems - the narrow airways.
> 
> I frankly find it hurts a bit that people so knowing as many people on this site doesn't see the difference between this. As I mentioned in another thread, my flat nosed, "imperfect" and messed with cat is the healthiest I have ever had. ANY cat can be flawed and sick, not just the "unusual" looking ones, and I have personally met many more "normal" cats with issues than persians.


Of course it just depends on the cat, but it is a fact some types of cats are more prone to certain health risks than others. It's great your Persian isn't unhealthy, and I would try not take what people are saying personally, they aren't out to attack you or your cat. Some of them might have even owned a Persian, who knows? We all love cats here.

However, certain breeds, not matter how lovely and cuddly just should not be breed when it's purely for ascetic reasons and not in the best interest of the animal coming into the world. Most cat breeds do come with at least a few health issues, any animal does, but the Persians don't just have breathing issues, in fact they likely have more health concerns than any other cat breed. Here is what Wikipedia lists about their health.

Also, it's a lot easier to say you've met more "normal" cats with health issues in comparison to Persians since those are the majority of cats you will find in homes. I think that's only logical. I think it is generally agreed upon though, that a regular domestic shorthair is the healthiest around since they aren't at risk for things like inbreeding and breeding for certain traits.


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## Carmel

Hmm, yes, and allow me to point out I did mean aesthetic, and not ascetic. That cracks me up! I'll also elaborate a little more on Munchkins, since I'm here double posting...

I just read this online: _Munchkins owe their short legs to a naturally-occurring genetic mutation, and not from human manipulation. The gene responsible for the breed's short legs has been likened to the same one that gives Dachsunds and Welsh Corgis their diminutive stature. However, since the spine of a cat is physically different from that of a dog, Munchkins do not suffer spinal problems sometimes associated with those canine breeds._

So maybe the short legs do not actually give them problems. If they're an indoor cat. But then if they were ever to get outside I'd seriosuly be concerned about them... I can't imagine they're able to catch mice or climb trees like a normal cat.


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## lilysong

FamHolter said:


> I frankly find it hurts a bit that people so knowing as many people on this site doesn't see the difference between this. As I mentioned in another thread, my flat nosed, "imperfect" and messed with cat is the healthiest I have ever had. ANY cat can be flawed and sick, not just the "unusual" looking ones, and I have personally met many more "normal" cats with issues than persians.


It's about the structural, functional ideal for the animal. Generally speaking, deliberately constricting airways, lengthening the back, shortening the legs, etc isn't going to help the structure of the animal. We bred certain breeds this way to serve certain purposes, like the corgi or the dachshund, and that doesn't make us evil, but certain problems and limitations came along with those choices.

That's all.

(I personally think that corgis are flippin' adorable and really really want one. That's a different matter. )


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## Vivid Dawn

There's a cat at the sanctuary I volunteer at, who looks like she may have Munchkin in her. Shorter legs (not too short, though), and a sort of 'stout' frame over-all. She's adorable! Usually I'm not too fond of brown tabbies, but she has the most gorgeous green eyes! And while she certainly loves to be paid attention to, she doesn't get "in my face" about it like some of the other cats. So I always be sure to come over and snuggle her a bit when I'm done with chores, just so she doesn't feel ignored! Her name is Tabitha, but I call her "Tabby-fur".
She would definitely be one I would consider adopting, if I could... along with about a dozen others there! LOL


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## Mitts & Tess

Ducman69 said:


> Thats so misleading when they make that statement.
> 
> Breeding cats that have a very unusual genetic mutation, which in nature would likely be considered a defect if it didn't make the cat more survivable, *IS* human manipulation.
> 
> Its not like there are any breeders out there actually gene-splicing, so its all "naturally-occurring"!
> 
> As long as the munchkins live normal lives and don't seem frustrated by their stubs, I don't have any issue w/ it. I just complain when breeders especially with dogs for example consider an animal the ideal even though in a year or two it develops hip dysplasia and can barely walk. I had heard that being an issue with Maine Coons where some are breeding for size above all else, ignoring heart conditions with some of these big-boys.


Actually a lot of the newer breeds of cats were first found in nature with the unusual genetic mutations and people continue to encourage that mutation by continueing to breed them that way. Then had them registered as a breed of cat. For Example Cornish Rex , Scottish Folds, Devon Rex, American Curl, American Wirehair, Sphynx cats were discovered as a "freak of nature" then bred for those traits.

Backyard breeders and cat mill and puppy mill breeders can destroy any unique breed of dog or cat with uncontroled poor genetics.


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## Dave_ph

When I first saw a Munchkin on Cats 101 I thought it was a cruel thing to do. People are breeder for ever shorter legs and calling them "Rug Huggers".

Cats 101: Munchkin : Video : Animal Planet


"If you breed a munchkin to a munchkin 1/4 of the offspring will die"


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## Mitts & Tess

Dave_ph said:


> When I first saw a Munchkin on Cats 101 I thought it was a cruel thing to do. People are breeder for ever shorter legs and calling them "Rug Huggers".
> 
> Cats 101: Munchkin : Video : Animal Planet
> 
> 
> "If you breed a munchkin to a munchkin 1/4 of the offspring will die"


Ive really enjoyed the show cats 101. Most cat shows on Animal Planet are a bit lame. But this series was very interesting. 

I did find it disturbing hearing that 1/4 of the off spring die. The experience of one kitten dieing, rips your heart out. Im not sure how those breeder could of stood it if they had a true affection for cats.

My vet talked a breeder into stop breeding her Cornish Rex cats because all her blood lines had horrible teeth with infections and my vet kept seeing them brought into her practise.


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## Dave_ph

Cats 101 has been wrong about a few things. They might be right about the mortality rate.

That video didn't include much of the breeder but there was along piece on her and Mr Fizzle on the TV show. She was, how can I put this delicately, a moron. She thought Mr Fizzle was the smallest cat in the world. When she went to have him measured she found out the tail is included. DERP! He wasn't even close so she's off to try to breed smaller.


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## dweamgoil

I'm sorry, but I don't find it cute that they have bred these cats to be in essence what we refer to as 'disabled', vertically challenged, or whatever. This type of gene manipulation is appalling in all the breeds of dogs we have already messed up and the same goes for cats. I don't find it cute to alter an animal's genetics simply for the sake of aesthetics and making a quick buck. In fact, it is downright shameful. As much as we hate to admit it, we will never be able to outsmart nature.


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## raecarrow

Dave_ph said:


> When I first saw a Munchkin on Cats 101 I thought it was a cruel thing to do. People are breeder for ever shorter legs and calling them "Rug Huggers".
> 
> Cats 101: Munchkin : Video : Animal Planet
> 
> 
> "If you breed a munchkin to a munchkin 1/4 of the offspring will die"


The reason 1/4 of the offspring die is because of the Dwarfism gene. It is a dominant gene and if a kitten gets a copy of the gene from both parents it can't survive because two copies of the dwarf gene is not compatible with life. This is true with human dwarfism as well.


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## Sinatra-Butters

We almost adopted a Munchkin once at our Humane Society. I think they are absolutely adorable. That being said, I would never buy from a breeder in general, so I wouldn't dream of supporting someone so does something so cruel to a cat. I would get one at the shelter, that's it.


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## FamHolter

Ducman69 said:


> Cats 101 is awesome.
> 
> Similar issues I believe with breeding a scottish fold to another fold. Majority of cats will be disabled with cartilage issues in the joints and spine and some don't survive is what I had read.


I know someone who bred one fold to another, the kids came out fine. But it might have been a lucky strike.. I know for sure I wouldn't risk it.. My baby is coming from a scottish straight mommy, and a fold daddy.. 

I have heard that most problems occur after a few months when you breed fold to fold. I don't know enough to really say anything for certain though, I'm working on getting more knowledge on them =)


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