# Toilet-Trained kitten showing ambivalence



## Broly (May 6, 2011)

Hi guys,

So my kitten quickly picked up how to use the toilet. I used the Litter Kwitter system and she learned within three weeks how to pee and poo properly using this system. However, one day she just stopped using it and started peeing beside the toilet and pooing by the base.

I don't know what happened... What I suspect is, given the LK design, that the green "disc" that sits inside of the seat (which itself is fastened to the toilet bowl) "came up" per-se when she was relieving herself one day. 

This is pretty much what she used to do:









but that cat is obviously not her. As you can see, if the kitten pees/poos standing on the front side of the system, the green disc inside can actually lift up on one end (like a see saw) if enough weight is concentrated on the front end of the disc.

This frightening incident for her is what I assume has made her fear the toilet. The reasons she used the location between the counter and toilet was that she thought I couldn't see it (and I couldn't unless I used the light reflection to spot it). She poo'd by the base of the toilet because she would try to use my toilet mat to hide it :/ 

I always checked my entire place before she started doing this to ensure she wasn't making her own "spot" and hiding it from me. She is incredibly smart and resourceful. 

I blocked out the area in which she was peeing after using the Nature Odor Control or whatever. I used a box that had a bag of shattered glass in it (from an old table I broke, but there was money in this box too which I didn't want to throw away because I am superstitious) so she couldn't move it. This was the only box I had on me as well. When I would check this area, I thought she stopped peeing on it, but it turns out she kept peeing in the box and just did it in a manner where it soaked the box  Yes, I know. TOO CLEVER.

She seems hesitant of the bathroom too because I have had to scruff her the od time to let her know that these areas are not supposed to be where she relieved herself. I guess I did this poorly and I accept blame for that, because she didn't really get it. I know I should have caught her in the act so I think this sort of exaggerated her fear of the bathroom.

In order to get her comfortable with the bathroom again I installed a disposable litter box in the area she used to pee, along with using cat pheromone to ensure she's not stressed.

Do you guys think that, over time, she will eventually become comfortable in the bathroom again? I am hoping her instant reaction becomes to use the litter box in the bathroom with relative ease. She has shown some ambivalence of going in to the bathroom to use it, but she has used it and not relieved herself anywhere else. I take this as an encouraging sign.

My hope is that after a few weeks I can take out the litter box and watch her for a day so when she does the "digging" motion that I can put her on the toilet seat again and she can relieve herself.

She already has the balance/knowledge of how to poo in it. I just think she's a bit scared and I would like her to complete this when she is ready. 

I want to make her feel as comfortable as possible while doing all of this.

Any advice from people who have successfully trained their cat to use the toilet would be great.

Thanks


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## bkitty (Aug 17, 2009)

PuddyWoW started out peeing in the sink & then started using the toilet on his own so I can not address the retraining. He switches back & forth on pooing in the litterbox vs the toilet. And he has fallen in on occasion. Your little guy may prefer a litterbox - I've got 5 other cats that are box users & the only use of a toilet is to knock stuff off the back as the 5 pt target if it goes in the water.


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## BryanOwnee (Feb 21, 2011)

I was never in favor of cats peeing to the toilets. Maybe it's just me.


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## Carmel (Nov 23, 2010)

I don't think there are many people here that have toilet trained a cat. I have never toilet trained a cat, but I've done some reading on it.

I've read a lot of stories like this with toilet training a cat, the cat will get it, and then one day, for various and sometimes unknown reasons, it won't. Then again, some cats just don't learn at all. Toilet training isn't natural to them. All it takes is something to throw them off and the cat will get upset and stop using a toilet. They assoiate the toilet with the bad thing that happened and don't want to use it. It's hard to get these cats to see that the thing they don't like about the toilet is unfounded, especially when in this case it's based on a real reason involving the toilet, this is unlike how some cats will associate the pain of something like constipation with the litterbox, since in those cases it's the not the litterbox truly causing the probem.

I've read a few horror stories, like of a cat that stayed at another persons house but refused to use their toilet, it was a disaster - the cat only wanted to use its own toilet at home. Or of the cat that that, when the owner left home for a few days, started going in other locations and never went back to using the toilet. Cats that are toilet trained often resort to pooping/peeing on tile or in bath tubs from what I've read. I couldn't find many success stories of cats that have used a toilet constantly their whole life. All the stuff I read was enough to completely turn me off the idea, it sounds cool, but it's too risky.

The only thing I can suggest if you really want your cat to use the toilet (and don't expect it to work forever, or at all) is to start from the beginning again once the cat is comfortable with the bathroom, and slowly raise the litter box up inch by inch until it's at the toilets level, then transfer the litter into a bowl that fits in the toilet, then slowly remove the litter, then remove the bowl. Only time will tell if your cat will use the toilet again.


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## Broly (May 6, 2011)

yeah I think I'm going to start again with her, it just seems like that's what happened. She's a bit scared and I think she just needs time to try again at her pace.


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## Broly (May 6, 2011)

bump, always open to more suggestions.


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## madamefifi (Apr 30, 2011)

Honestly, my suggestion is that you give up on this fixation with toilet-training and just provide a box for your cat. Using the toilet isn't natural and it's no wonder she's got issues with it. Cats need to scratch around before and after pottying--BTW, your cat isn't trying to hide her pees and poos from you, she is acting instinctively to hide her spoor from predators. Not sure what the problem is with a litter box from your perspective? Litter boxes and the attendant labor associated with them is part of the package when you adopt a cat. Just my .02.


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## MinkaMuffin (Apr 1, 2011)

madamefifi said:


> Honestly, my suggestion is that you give up on this fixation with toilet-training and just provide a box for your cat. Using the toilet isn't natural and it's no wonder she's got issues with it. Cats need to scratch around before and after pottying--BTW, your cat isn't trying to hide her pees and poos from you, she is acting instinctively to hide her spoor from predators. Not sure what the problem is with a litter box from your perspective? Litter boxes and the attendant labor associated with them is part of the package when you adopt a cat. Just my .02.


Well but you could say the same about not letting them go outdoors, or walking them on a leash or feeding them a commercial diet.
She's not harming her cat in any way and if the cat really wants to, it can just scratch at the ground around the toilet, just like they do with food.


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## bkitty (Aug 17, 2009)

Let her have a litterbox and give her back the litterkquitter. It really is like working with a toddler - just because you can get them to use the big potty sometimes, they will insist on the pampers or the pottychair just because ... sometimes. I can't get any of the cats but PuddyWoW to use the toilet & he is sporadic with the poo. Sometimes he uses the potty for the pooing & sometimes the litterbox. And if he is in a big hurry to go pee sometimes I have a very wet cat.


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## madamefifi (Apr 30, 2011)

MinkaMuffin said:


> Well but you could say the same about not letting them go outdoors, or walking them on a leash or feeding them a commercial diet.
> She's not harming her cat in any way and if the cat really wants to, it can just scratch at the ground around the toilet, just like they do with food.


Say what, that it's not natural to keep a cat indoors, walk them on a leash, or feed them commercial food? All true, in a way, but all a different can of worms than something as instinctual as elimination. We all know cats can develop some peculiar ideas about peeing and pooping and I believe that trying to force a cat, who is showing some resistance, to use an "unnatural" method of waste disposal is unduly stressful on the cat. Again, just my 2 cents' worth. The OP is free to do whatever she wants with her cat but if she is coming onto a forum to ask for advice or opinions then I'm going to give mine. Not trying to start any drama, just saying "listen to your cat".


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## madamefifi (Apr 30, 2011)

Wanted to add that keeping cats indoors, walking them on a leash, and not feeding them a commercial diet are all things done in the best interest of _the cat_. Training a cat to use the toilet is in the best interest of _the human_. That's the difference that I was trying to explain.


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## Broly (May 6, 2011)

I should emphasize that she's only showed resistance after learning how to do it. She wasn't unwilling at any point.

She eagerly hopped on it and pooped on it the whole way, all I di was take away her original litterbox when I started training.

And yeah, I have the litterbox there and I'm gonna put the LK back on this weekend.

Is it possible to allow the litterbox to be *slightly* unclean so that she might want to try the LK since it'd be clean? I hear the key thing about getting the cat to stay on the toilet training is to figure out that it's cleaner/easier and doesn't smell after defecation since it'll be submersed in water.


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## catloverami (Jul 5, 2010)

I think any success you will have again with your cat using the toilet to secure that green ring thing so that it doesn't move. I'm sure you're right that it spooked her and now she's hesitant to use the toilet because of it. You could put another litter box somewhere else (laundry room?) other than the bathroom if she's still unsure about the bathroom.


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## MinkaMuffin (Apr 1, 2011)

madamefifi said:


> Wanted to add that keeping cats indoors, walking them on a leash, and not feeding them a commercial diet are all things done in the best interest of _the cat_. Training a cat to use the toilet is in the best interest of _the human_. That's the difference that I was trying to explain.


Walking on a leash is unnecessary and feeding a commercial diet is in the best interest of the human, Not the cat. If you wanted to be in the best interest of the cat, you would build it an enclosure outside and feed it a raw diet, so my point still stands.


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## MowMow (Nov 6, 2010)

Here we go again.....


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## Sinatra-Butters (Aug 9, 2010)

I know I'm not a mod but- can we stick to encouraging the poster instead of going back and forth about something that isn't relevant to OP? When disagreements go on and on it embarrasses all of us.


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

Being a backseat mod is normally against the rules, but I'm tired, so thanks. Nice assist. 

Let's try to stay on topic.


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## MinkaMuffin (Apr 1, 2011)

Maybe if you think she's afraid of the bathroom, you can try to treat her in there? Make it a happy place again, and then move the litterbox closer and closer, etc.


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## Broly (May 6, 2011)

Thank you everyone for your amazing support.

As an update I put her back on the litter kwitter earlier this past week. I initially put her on the red disk and saw her poop and pee within the day, so I switched to the orange one (which has a hole in it). I had to use her litter box for a bit as I had lasik, so I put the orange disc in her litter box and it was like she noticed and used it as a guide!

Amazingly, I put the LK back on this morning and I went out to get something to eat. To my surprise she pooped in the hole! So I am quite overjoyed as she didn't show this progress before on the orange disc, only on the green disk.

Gonna use the orange disk for a few more days and see how well she's aiming and go from there. I am so overjoyed.


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## Broly (May 6, 2011)

old fatso has shown me why I should just trust her.

She has yet to miss unless I leave out my carpet that she had an accident on.

Speaking of which, what's the best way to get the carpet free of any scent? I don't smell anything but obviously she does, which might prompt her to poo on it. I'm hoping that after she goes in the hole for a week that she realizes this is the best way...

Thanks


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