# How late in pregnancy can you spay?



## Erin

I think one of my ferals is pregnant, and I'm stuck about what to do. She hasn't been vetted yet (thanks giving made it difficult, but I'm hoping to get them in this week) so I'm not sure if it's a wormy belly, or babies. She's emaciated, so it's even more pronounced, but it looks like a baby belly to me. 

Problem is, is that if I can't get her spayed this Tuesday, we have to wait until next Tuesday. That's a week and a half, and if she's showing this much already, I wonder how late into her potential pregnancy that takes us. I've also been told that the feral clinic I'm going to may not spay her if they suspect she's that far along. I'm stuck because I'm leaving for Christmas for 2 weeks in the middle of December and am having a hard enough time trying to get someone to watch 4 feral cats for me, never mind 4 ferals AND a litter of kittens (and I have 3 dogs and a house kitty). 

If it can be done safely, I will seek out another vet even if that means paying full price (I'm trying to take advantage of a low cost feral program). And truth be told, the less unwanted cats, the better, you know? 

I'm just stressing because I didn't plan on having 4 foster kitties over the holidays.


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## Heidi n Q

I had Pretty spayed around Christmas time several years ago. She was HUGE, so I think she was within days, certainly less than a week, from delivering.

I had trapped her first litter of four who were about 9-11 weeks old and had them in my bathroom to tame. I had no place to put her and a new litter, so I had to opt to lose her second litter to save her and her first litter.
I hated doing it, but now I don't regret having done it. 

Pretty was spayed and released back to my property/barn and took 14 months before she would let me touch her and now, about 3 years after the spay, she will let me pick her up and hold her for short periods of time. Her babies all were adopted as pairs into great homes.

A friend recently borrowed my cat trap and trapped a pregnant feral. That night as she was taken to the vet to be spayed, she gave birth. She tried to keep the feral mamma and kittens to care for them and it ended horribly and tragically with the feral mother cannibalizing her litter. Only one kitten survived. Feral mamma was spayed and released back to the area she was trapped from. Friend is still trying to trap that cat's first litter who are now juvenile cats.
Because of this, I will probably never recommend trying to keep a feral mother with newborns captive.

Best of luck to you...
h


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## Erin

Yeah, I'm worried about socializing mama and babies, when mama is wild. However, this little kitty will let me pick her up already. She's VERY sweet, but I've had many cats who are nasty mean, and then get pregnant are big mushes. Also, if she is pregnant, she got caught on her first heat. She's a little thing.


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## Heidi n Q

Erin said:


> ...this little kitty will let me pick her up already.


Hm. Shadow showed up at my shed, hugely pregnant and let me pick her up. I suspect she was a drop-off and not truly feral. I brought her inside and she kittened in less than 10 days. Kittens were adopted out and I still have Shadow.


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## Erin

I don't know whether these kittens were dropped or born outside, or what. But she and all the other kitties are rough looking, skinny, and very fearful. The adult cat that I have, I deffinitly think is feral (scares, bites, ticks on the face, very agressive, etc) and they all seem to be running together, which is why I've dubbed it "mama cat". It doesn't have a big head, so I'm assuming it's a female. This is why I tend to think these are her kittens, hence them being feral. 

I don't know... she let's me hold her and pet her, but if given the chance she will run and hide.


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## Jeanie

She's probably a stray, one who got out a while ago.

To give a different opinion, I don't believe in killing babies of any size. Life is too precious to destroy.


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## Erin

I don't know about "a while ago", she's not that old. IF she is pregnant, it was on her first heat. And since she's been running with these other kitties, I tend to think they may all be from the same litter. They are the only feral/strays I've seen in this neighborhood in the 2 years I've lived here. It would be unlikley for several young kittens from different litters of different ages, and an adult cat, to just show up. Don't you think? 

The whole thing makes me crazy... and furious, especially after running into my nieghbors down the street. I doubt very much these cats came from her. While she was weird, those cats have been fed, and didn't bolt when I came around.


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## Jeanie

Yes, that's true. There could be a family looking for her. I hope she has a microchip! 

I adopted a stray who was very young and later, we discovered to our surprise, she was pregnant. She had a large litter, and had to have a caesarean to deliver the last kitten. It was dead.  She was just too young to have that many kittens, and only one kitten lived after a few weeks. Of course, the vet spayed her after the caesarean section. 

We tried, but never found her family, so we kept her. I think she got lost and might have traveled quite a distance. She had a good home here, though.


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## Erin

If she did come from a family, she has been out for a while. She is VERY skinny, and her coat is in bad condition. She's been out for a while. I really think she's feral, but just very glad to be inside. She is very skitish, and if given the chance will bolt and try to hide, BUT she's handle-abe and enjoys attention.. unlike the other one. He much prefers to be left alone. 

Speaking of which, my daughter is asleep, time to go play with kittens! :lol:


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## Heffer Wolfe

Hi! I'm picking up two Siamese on Wednesday and the female was allegedly impregnated last week so I was wondering or rather clarify if there won't be any danger spaying a possibly pregnant cat?


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## Heidi n Q

Heffer Wolfe said:


> ...I was wondering or rather clarify if there won't be any danger spaying a possibly pregnant cat?


I wouldn't call it 'danger' but I would certainly say that the risks go up with the greater size and amount of blood delivered to the uterus. In that regard, the earlier you get her spayed, the easier time of it and lower chance of risks will be involved.


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## Jeanie

Heffer Wolfe, I sincerely hope that you will allow the kittens to live. It breaks my heart to think that a precious life would be destroyed. Although life is life, pure breed or not, many people would love to have a Siamese kitten. I pray that you will give this a great deal of thought.

Having been a breeder of Siamese at one time, I can tell you that kittens are quite easy to raise, in comparison with puppies. They are almost no work, and bring great joy.


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## ~Siameseifuplz~

I've heard there is a slightly greater risk of blood loss but it's not too great. I personally think it would be very responsible of you to spay her, even though it means the end of life for those kittens the last thing this world needs is more animals that may very well end up in shelters. Unless you KNOW you can raise them and find them homes and take them back if the owner does not want them later then I think it is a wise decision to abort but of course the decision is not mine nor anyone else's to make it is your's.


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## Jeanie

These are pure bred Siamese cats. They would not end up in a shelter.


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## Kobster

> These are pure bred Siamese cats. They would not end up in a shelter.


I beg to differ with you I'm afriad. We deal with our local Siamese Rescue oragnization and we frequently get pure bred siamese and oriental shorthairs out of shelters. I'm talking, on a weekly basis. 

I'm sorry to say, jeanie, but I think you are deluding yourself a bit. So many kittens die in shelters and on the streets every day, do you really think bringing more into this world that weren't planned and have no waiting list for them is a good idea? Statistically, they will end up in shelters, at leasta few of them, and they may suffer horribly and die alone. Wouldn't it be kinder to let them go at this early stage, and save the mother?


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## Jeanie

Kobster, I got Nina from the Siamese Rescue Organization in Virginia. When they got a new cat in, it was gone by the time my email got to them asking pertinent questions. In addition, I was a breeder of Siamese cats, and always had a waiting list. I'm not naive. These are quality cats that Heffer Wolfe is buying. 

Of course a purebred cat could end up in a shelter, but I had my name in every shelter in the Pittsburgh area after my Seal Point Siamese died. I was determined to adopt an adult. I waited from October until April. Then Stephie suggested calling the Siamese Shelter in Virginia. As I said, by the time they answered my request for info, the cat was gone. I was lucky to get Nina when I did. I have been in contact with the foster Meowmies and the head of the organization on a regular basis ever since. 

I do not believe it is moral or ethical to abort any type of life (unless the mother's life is endangered). I will not hesitate to stand by my principles.


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## Heffer Wolfe

Jeanie said:


> I sincerely hope that you will allow the kittens to live. It breaks my heart to think that a precious life would be destroyed. Although life is life, pure breed or not, many people would love to have a Siamese kitten. I pray that you will give this a great deal of thought.


Hi. I was considering it but you're right. I don't think I can push through with it now if the cat is found to be pregnant. The helper of the breeder carelessly allowed the 7 month old male (from the female Siamese's earlier litter) to mate with the female before I could get to it. I'm not even sure if it was successful, I plan to bring them straight to the vet as soon as I get them for their check up.

I don't think finding a home to adopt these kittens would be that hard (if there are kittens to begin with). They're one of the two most popular breeds being advertised both in print and online (the other breed are Persians). Finding a good home would be a lot harder as I have to screen those wanting one. By the way, both mother and son look more of a traditional Siamese rather than the classic. More so the son, who, at an alleged 7 months, looks huge, stocky and muscular. I'll try to post a video of both as soon as I can.

Which brings me to another question, pardon me if this was already answered, but how soon or long after the mating could I know for sure if she's pregnant or not?


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## doodlebug

So this is a mother-son breeding? If so, I have to say that I don't think it's a good idea to allow the kittens (if they exist) to come to full term. That is not breeding for the good of the breed and may bring out undesirable characteristics. These kittens would not be registerable (are the parents registered?).


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## Sol

We all have different moral principles and I personally wouldn't be able to abort foetuses older than 4 weeks, but that's just how I feel.

Practically you can spay and abort throughout the whole pregnancy but even vets have moral principles and have different "rules" so it's very hard to be general about this.


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## Heffer Wolfe

Hi *doodlebug*. Here's my plan, if the female Siamese turns out to be pregnant I will allow her to carry it full term and spay her after the kittens are weaned. The kittens will be neutered and/or spayed before they're released to potential homes. That information in itself would screen out unwanted would-be adopters who are in it for financial gain (you wouldn't believe how a lot of people think that breeding cats would be rewarding. Ok, you do.)

The parents aren't registered with the local registry and the resulting kittens won't be registered as well because they won't be allowed to breed. Lots of backyard breeders are selling Siamese kittens we certainly don't need more. I will, instead, give them lots of reasons why fixed kittens make more attractive pets than those that aren't. nekitty 

Thanks, *Sol*. I don't know what the local vets' stand about this but I guess they would mostly likely leave the decision with their clients.

Here's a video of the alleged 7 months old male Siamese taken during my first visit to the breeder:



Sorry I couldn't screen out the conversation but it's just me talking with the breeder about my two Siamese crossbreeds at home and the first of three breeders I've talked to the other day. About how she's pushy and all trying to convince me to buy her Siamese kittens despite them being only 6 weeks old (to be fair though, the tom was this humongous traditional blue point Siamese, but, the kittens were still grossly underaged to be released). Besides, she treated my visit like a business transaction which turned me off.


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## ~Siameseifuplz~

Did the poor cat live in that cage:? Sounds like one bad breeder...Oh and dn't sell the kittens until 10-12 wks please


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## Heffer Wolfe

Lots of local breeders keep their cats in cages probably to keep them from wandering and spraying. In this case, the house where he goes home to is around 30 minutes to an hour from this house where the Siamese are located. His wife recently gave birth so won't be able to look after them, hence the closing of his cattery.

Will do, *~Siameseifuplz~*. I won't make the others' mistakes with releasing the kittens too early.


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## Heffer Wolfe

Just got back from picking up the two cats. The vet advised that we should wait for a month to make sure the female cat is pregnant. She sure is skittish and managed to raise quite a ruckus thrice when she got out of her cage and ran around the clinic with the vet's assistants giving chase.


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## Jeanie

My Blueberry is a one woman cat. He has to get to know people for a while, but he is a real lap cat, and is not happy unless he is with me. I think you will find your cats to be very loving also! 

I get a little bit nervous at the dentist's office, personally.  I don't make the dentist chase me though! :wink: And I'm sure no cat likes to go to the vet. She'll calm down.


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## Kobster

Jeanie, Please inform your siamese wanting friends who can't get them up north to go to siamese rescue of North Texas, cats are DYING in rescue over here, there are hundreds of them that languish for years and years in a cattery. Its disgusting and shameful.


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## Jeanie

I'm sorry.  That's so sad. The Siamese Rescue Org. in Virginia is the only one with whom I keep in touch. I have not bred cats for years, so I don't know who is looking for one now. What happens in the East might not be the same in the Texas branches. This is the one I am familiar with:


> Adoption Details
> Siamese Cat Rescue Center (SCRC) adopts cats primarily to people in the eastern third of the US, from Florida to Maine and inland as far as Indiana and Tennessee.


However, I have found one in Texas..same organization. You are probably familiar with one of its branches. There are others. I don't know anyone associated with them, however. 



> Hello Folks! Welcome to our Siamese Rescue Alliance Page. We are very Meezer-friendly here in Texas and everywhere there are fur babies in need! Siamese Rescue Alliance is a "doing business as" name for the North Texas Siamese Rescue Org. Inc., an IRS Section 501(c)(3) non-profit organization, along with its affiliated branches (_Austin Siamese Rescue Branch, Houston Siamese Rescue Branch and Abilene Siamese Rescue Branch!)_ and foster parents, veterinarians and volunteers.


http://tx.siameserescue.org/ I hope they can help. 

Of course, there are Siamese who can't find homes at the Siamese Rescue in Virginia also, but it's because of behavior or chronic illness. Some people won't take an old cat, either. They don't want to face the heartbreak to come...especially if they have just lost their own pet.  

I have not bred Siamese for years. I just keep in touch with the people at the Siamese Rescue Center in Virginia. And, of course, I have no idea what the situation is in the Philippines. I know my experiences and my own beliefs, which I have posted already.

The breeding we are discussing was a planned breeding, but the breeder decided to sell the queen. The OP might be able to explain that. I only know he has been searching for a quality Siamese cat, and has found two now.


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## Heffer Wolfe

I was supposed to get two meezers but the helper of the breeder carelessly put them inside the same cage when the queen started calling. The two supposedly mated last week. The breeder decided to let these last two felines go because his wife recently gave birth and his home was a good 45 minutes away from the house where the cats are located.

The vet advised that we wait for a month before giving her her shots to make sure if she wasn't pregnant. But now I won't be able to to do that since I only informed our house cleaner about the 7 months old kitten inside my room and neglected to tell her about the queen inside the closed bathroom. By the time I got back the bathroom door was fully opened with not cat in sight. She's still inside the house, that I'm still sure but I have no idea where she's hiding right now. _I hate this._


* * *

Only tabbies, calicos, and torties are in rescue centers here. Majority of the people here prefer their cats with pedigrees. I bet people here would have taken those meezers in rescue centers if there was a way to do it.


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## Kobster

Jeanie, that is the rescue I am talking about. Cats are DYING in THAT rescue, because there isn't enough room and there aren't enough homes. Cats languish in Texas Siamese Rescue (Siamese Rescue Alliance), they come in as middle aged cats and die of old age diseases. We have been treating some of these same cats for upwards of five years. No one wants them. Why make more of them, while these cats suffer. Are these new kittens somehow more important than these cats that are already in rescue and can't find a home? What about the ones who aren't "lucky" enough to end up in rescue (for years and years on end, living in a cage, or a single room with dozens of other cats) the ones that die on the streets or in kill shelters? What about those cats? Don't they have a right to a GOOD life?


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## Jeanie

Kobster, Texas is a huge state. I'm sorry you have had a different experience than I have had. You might have an abundance of back yard breeders; I don't know. It's tragic. 

What you seem to be urging is that no purebred cat be bred. I think only the best should be bred deliberately, but you cannot change my mind about abortion. 

I believe pets should be spayed/neutered, and the best should be bred judiciously. If there is a problem, I would strongly urge a campaign against byb, and a license and permit necessary for any breeding until those sweet cats have found homes. 

In addition, perhaps The Siamese Rescue Org. could reduce its prices. I know that is the case with elderly and chronically ill cats in the Virginia center. Sometimes people who can afford it will sponsor a cat with a behavior problem. Kittens were grabbed immediately. Although I was looking for an adult, I was checking every day, and I saw how they handled things. The person who interviewed me adopted only senior cats. I had just lost my seal point Siamese and my Collie within a year, and I couldn't risk losing another so soon. I have saved one Balinese and many, many strays, DSHs and DLHs ,during all of these years of my adulthood. 

I will not continue this discourse. I don't think you're open to my suggestions or the facts as they are in the East, and I will never approve of abortion. If there had been any Siamese in the area shelters, I would not have had to have one transported from Virginia and adhered to their strict policies. (Good hearted volunteers brought Nina hundreds of miles to my area.) And with a shortage of and demand for Siamese in the Philippines, I don't think the possibility of another litter there will change the sad situation in Texas.  I pray that a solution will be found. Killing should be the last choice, not the first.


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## Kobster

I am not against the careful and responsible breeding of purebred cats, but what we are talking about here is an accidental mating with an inexperienced owner out of what sounds like a pretty shoddy cattery to begin with. I shudder to think where these poor kittens may end up. 

I will bow out now. Until you have to stick the needle in the arm of a beautiful purebred siamese on a regular basis, you just can't understand my position.

P.S. This rescsue routinely adopts to ALL 50 states, I know, I've filled out the travel papers. So there is NO excuse for people in the East not being able to find a siamese of ANY AGE or color from any one of the Texas branches of Siamese rescue.


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## Jeanie

Concerning the distance the Siamese Rescue will adopt out....I was asked to please not choose a cat from Connecticut (500 + miles). I can understand that. People are driving these cats to adopters. It is a wonderful organization. To save them driving time, I tried to get one in PA, but couldn't. Nina came from Virginia. However, there are other Rescue Sites in the East.

For those who are interested in the East, use the drop down menu to look for your next Siamese:

http://va.siameserescue.org/webbuild.php


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