# Play fighting with my hand... Is it that bad???



## tamer

Hi all.

I had my new kitten, Noodles, for nearly two weeks now and it likes to play fight using nails and teeth alot. It doesn't seem to be real agression as I have never bled from any of the bites or scratches. My hand is full of battle scars thought. It bites do not penetrate my skin, and the scratches are nothing but that... just scratches. 

He does this only when I pay him some attention, and mostly when he is in 'tigger mode'. (Also, sometimes wakes me up during the night with bites, but I think this is when I uncontiosly move my hands or feet while asleep, causing him to think that its 'play time'!. He is only around 12 weeks old, and I got him from someone who was relocating and couldn't look after him anymore. 

The main issue is this.... So far, on this forum, most of the biting topics I've read are by people who want to stop their cat from biting. However, since I know that he is just playing around, and not really trying to hurt... I'm totally OK with him biting my hand... It hurts a bit, but not really in a way to make me complain. I even sometimes encourage him to bite and play fight with my hand, as I also enjoy it (some might find this weird, but I like what my kitten likes) However, I'm aware that he's only a small kitten, and the bites might start hurting, or bleeding, when he gets a bit older (even if he might like this, I'm preety sure that I won't! 

Something else I've also noticed is that Noodles is not as affectionate as another kitten I was looking after for a few weeks. that kitten was slightly older, around 16 weeks old, and although he liked to play fight also, he would wake me up in the mornings by rubbing his face against my face to tell me that he was hungry....Noodles doesn't do this.... When he is hungry, he just seems to 'meawww'....

Basically, my question is... Is my play fighting gonna make my kitten harder to deal with in the future, when he's jaws have become more powerful, and teeth MUCH bigger? and will he grow up to be more affectionate and loving, or should he have already been like that?

He does still let me stroke him when he is half asleep, and likes it when I play with his neck (actually, havent seen him complain when I stoke any part of his body yet), but I would like for him to come for some attention somethimes, rather than have to wait when he has nearly fallen asleep!


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## fbodgrl

I'm sure you will get alot of fed back on this.....

As far as playing with the hand. I don't think it is a good practice. Basically the kitty can't determine what is play and what isn't then. As they get older, they do get bigger, stronger, etc. and I could see it become an issue. Just my opinion. I'm sure someone who knows more will come along


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## nanook

I agree.


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## Shadue

I think my view is more against the grain than most people, but I am one to play wrestle with my cats using my hands.

We currently have a 4yr old female and a 3 month old kitten. Our 4yr old was brought up playing in this manner, however we also taught her when too rough was too rough. When she got carried away we would swat her lightly like another cat might do, and say a firm "No", not yell it but use a tone she can associate with as being bad. Now that she is older, I still play fight with her and she never bites too hard, or on the odd occasion when she does by accident when she gets carried away, she instantly stops and gives this "Im sorry look" and will start licking our hand. Only other time is when she has had enough playing, but I always get other signs, via her eyes and ears to see she is communicting "ok, I have had enough"

Not sure if this really did anything with our "teachings" but if she didnt get the hint by the light swat, I would get down to her level and give a growl and hiss  . Yes... I would hiss at my cat.  

Anyways, it may be considered by some as a toss up on your cat, but even my new kitten is learning what is too much and is starting to come around with knowing what we consider too rough play.

The other thing we tought was the face was a definatly off limits. Even when my 4yr old is in a pissy mood and will paw bat us to say get lost (usually happens after we cut her nails, she hates it) we can always put our face to hers and she will never even attempt to bat or bite at it.

To each his own, but if your worried that this play will turn your kitty into a mean cat, then 1 of 2 things. Refrain from doing it, or teach him/her what is acceptable by you. However, if your not comfortable with being able to get this lesson across then I would have to agree with the other posts and say refrain from it.

But I get just as much fun hand wrestling with my kitties as I am sure my cats do, and have not had problems with it in my case.


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## Lorna

{Lornas Boyfriend - piggybacking on Lorna's log-in :roll: } 

Had many cats all my life (34 years old now -where did all the time go? :lol: )

Nothing too wrong with toy-fighting with your cat - Simply make sure that he/she knows when playtime is over. Walk away give no attention to it (if it still continues the mock fight/attack - this includes pushing it away. That level of interaction still counts in their eyes :lol: )

Can I ask, are you planning on letting your cat be 'out-doors'? I know it depends on location etc but if you are, believe it or not, your actually helping it develop neccessary skills.

'Indoors' on the other hand can lead to slightly problem cats IF you do not let them know when playtime is OVER. Blow in their face if they are in 'attack mode' and always let them know when you are done playing. If you are playing 'Pack leader' type role with your cat, (as the person above said, growl - cat like :wink: ) let them know you are not happy and ignore your cat (if required) If you watch them closely you'll know when they are in that mood. Yawn directly in their face and blink at the same time - I know it sounds strange but it communicates 'indifference' :roll: (for emphasis :wink: ) to them.

There's loads more about how to deal with playful kittens but some of this rambling should help you on the right path... :lol: 

{Lorna's Boyfriend - signing off}


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## tamer

I currently live with my parents, but hope to move out of here within the next year, and hope to have a place with a garden (currently live in a block of flats, and he is an indoor cat) I will be letting him explore the outdoors then, and let it hunt, which I also believe that play fighting is helping it develop essential outdoor skills.


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## Bethany

I don't know what your plan for life is, but it seems like there can be a potential problem if you wind up having a housemate/SO/child who isn't so keen on having their hands bitten by the cat, even in fun. (Particularly for youg children it seems like this could be an issue.)

I used to play the "There's something moving under the blanket!" game with my housemates' cat until the cat in question attacked his foot moving under the blanket one night and managed to draw blood in the process. Not cool.

Personally, I now firmly discourage the "something under the blanket!" game with my cats, as well as the "attack Mom's hair" game and the "bite Mom's feet" game.


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## marie73

Bethany said:


> I used to play the "There's something moving under the blanket!" game with my housemates' cat until the cat in question attacked his foot moving under the blanket one night and managed to draw blood in the process. Not cool.


I started that game with Cinderella - it's hard not to when they're right there lying on the bed! Big mistake - now if I'm moving around during the night or even just stretching in the morning, I'm in danger of being attacked! Actually, we don't play that anymore, so she's not so bad now, but sometimes she thinks she sees something and will start attacking the blankets all over the bed. It's so funny (when I'm not in it!). :lol:


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## Nell

I also don't think its a good idea to let your cat bite you while playing. I see absolutely no good reason to let it continue.

First, letting a cat wrestle with your hand is not going to develop "essential" outdoor survival skills. Your hand cannot be compared to another animal that your cat may have to defend against. Your hand does not have sharp claws or teeth or a vulerable belly or neck. It cannot take the place of play-fighting with another cat.
Wresting with your hand is also not going to teach your cat to hunt. Only the mother cat can really successfully do that, and appropriate toys can reinforce the behavior by allowing them to chase, stalk and pounce. Get your cat some toy mice, sparkle pom poms, Da Bird, or a laser pointer if you're determined to help your cat develop these skills.

I don't think allowing a cat to bite is going to make the cat mean, but it will teach them that when they're feeling playful or want attention its okay to bite people. This may turn out to be just an annoyance to you, but you are not the only person the cat is going to interact with. What happens if you have guests and they attempt to pet your cat and the cat bites them? Some of them might be understanding but others will not.

It may not be an issue for you right now, but what happens if 5 years from now you have a child? What are you going to do if the baby wants to play with kitty and kitty bites or scratches because he has been taught to play too rough? It may be too late then to correct the behavior. Are you going to have to be faced with the decision of getting rid of the cat so he doesn't harm the child? or will you have to keep him in locked in a different part of the house to prevent any occurances?

Remember, your cat may live to be 15-20 years old, and a lot about your life or situation can change during that time. Is it always going to be okay to let your cat bite? Unless you can honestly answer "yes", then I suggest discouraging this behavior rather than encouraging it.


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## manitu22

I don't think it's a good idea. A kitten may not cause a lot of damage but an older cat that is bigger and stronger can. I unfortunately got in the habit of play fighting with my hands with my older cat and have some permanent scars to prove it. Even if you dont' mind it lets say you have someone come over to visit and they try petting/playing with the cat and the cat starts biting them. Also cat bites can be very dangerous. I know a couple of people that had to be hospitalized because their cat bit them very hard puncturing the skin and causing a bad infection. I wish I had never started this practice with my cat and since your kitten is young you still may be able to stop it.


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## MandyJoBo

I think it's best not to let them play with hands when they are kittens and still learning. When they are older, it may be okay because by then they will know the difference between play time and no-no time. I play with mine like that some times now that they're older (both over 1 year) and they know when it's not okay. I like it because they play together like that and I want to join in!


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## gunterkat

Obviously this is another emotionally charged issue. 

I taught my Sam early on when he could and couldn't use his claws, but i enjoyed cat-wrestling as much as he did. He always bit very gently when we played, and never scratched, though he just touched my skin with the tips of his claws. He never broke skin with either teeth or claws.
Later, when Sam was more mature and stronger, i stepped up the play by getting a pair of welding gloves to shield my skin. Sam was a little confused by this at first, but he quickly understood that i was now protected and he could play rougher if he wanted. He was very happy that i did this for him. 

Sam was an exceptional feline, a kitty genius, and never forgot that he couldn't play rough with guests or with my uprotected skin. I never had to actually teach him to not claw or bite my face; he seemed to understand that on his own. My friends all loved Sam, even the ones who "didn't like cats". 

And like Shadue, i did use some 'cat languge' with Sam. At least the little bit i picked up and was sure of what it meant. 

I think it was partly because of our playing together that Sam and i developed the understanding and mutual respect we enjoyed.


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## queen of the nile

I am in the "no rough-housing with your cat" camp. In addition to the reasons listed above, cats have a particularly nasty bacteria in their mouths that can cause serious damage if it gets under your skin. It can lead to infection of the subcutaneous tissues which causes severe pain and swelling at the site of the bite, and can occasionally lead to a nasty bone infection. Not something you want to mess with! 

Cats' teeth are also quite sharp and pointy, so when they bite, the tooth makes a puncture mark that rapidly closes over, creating an oxygen-free environment where some bacteria in the cat's saliva can grow rapidly. I know of several veterinary professionals that have required IV antibiotics due to a cat bite!


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## DesnBaby

I play w/ Baby w/ the hand puppet on my hand and we wrestle together w/ it  . I wouldn't encourage playing w/ my hands because that hurts  .


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## Loving_My_Cats

I personally do it. Specially with Duchess. I let her bite/attack my hand.. in a play fighting manner. She never hurts me or makes me bleed. And whenever i'm done and put my hand out to pet her, she seems to just know i'm done. Like she'll instantly STOP biting me and stuff! Think it depends on the cat. I usually say things like "that all you got" haha.. because i'm so used to cat bites and scratches.. it really doesn't hurt lol!


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## OctoberinMaine

My boyfriend plays with Rookie all the time where teeth come out. When she's feeling playful, she rolls over on her back, brings her front and back legs together, and tries to lightly bite him while he's patting her. It has been completely harmless so far, and I kind of feel like we owe her that much since there isn't another cat to play with. I've always been glad that she gives us notice by rolling over on her back! The scary thing would be if she just lunged suddenly, which I've seen other cats do.


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