# I'm new here with a first time mother.



## CloversAMommy (Apr 9, 2008)

I came to this forum hoping that I will be accepted here. I have had problems with people telling me that I am irresponsible for letting my cat breed. And most people don't believe me, but on the 7th my Beautiful Medium-hair Calico Hemmingway cat gave birth to TEN kittens. She was in labor from 12-8pm. I sat with her through most of it (I only left when I thought she was done) since this was her first litter. 
I thought we were done around the 5th kitten. Then she totally surprised us when we kept coming back to check on her and she had more. 
I was curious on how rare this is? Can I consider this a miracle of sorts hahah?
I know I am extremely excited and I can assure all of you that I will stop at nothing to find these littles ones wonderful homes when they come of age.. or I will keep the ones that don't. However, I don't think I will have a problem since they are all so beautiful and unique. 








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If the image doesn't work this URL should hopefully.. I'm kind of new at this. 
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2334748890103303313ycZgEE


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## Leazie (Apr 14, 2007)

Oh my, they are cute. I don't know much abotu litters, so I don't know if 10 is unusual.

Congratulations to you and the new Mom.


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## CloversAMommy (Apr 9, 2008)

Leazie said:


> Oh my, they are cute. I don't know much abotu litters, so I don't know if 10 is unusual.
> 
> Congratulations to you and the new Mom.


Thank you ^_^ btw that kitty Bob in your signature looks like he has alot of personality.. i just love his face. hehe


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## Leazie (Apr 14, 2007)

Bob does have alot of personality. He can be a cranky thing when he wants to be.


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## CloversAMommy (Apr 9, 2008)

hahah cats will be cats.


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## mstx (Mar 4, 2008)

hmmm I dont think its common but not too rare. Congrats to you and the new mommy!!! The kittens are sooooo cute and the mom is just so beautiful!!


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## CloversAMommy (Apr 9, 2008)

mstx said:


> hmmm I dont think its common but not too rare. Congrats to you and the new mommy!!! The kittens are sooooo cute and the mom is just so beautiful!!


Thank you so much.


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

What a lovely bundle of colors you have there! Of course, I'm a little partial to medium-haired Calicos.  

I can't wait to see pictures as they get older.

10! 8O


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

I enjoy reading Hemmingway. Your kitty looks polydactyl, too.
h


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## CloversAMommy (Apr 9, 2008)

Heidi n Q said:


> I enjoy reading Hemmingway. Your kitty looks polydactyl, too.
> h


Yep She has toes and alot of her kitties do too. ^_^


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## CloversAMommy (Apr 9, 2008)

marie73 said:


> What a lovely bundle of colors you have there! Of course, I'm a little partial to medium-haired Calicos.
> 
> I can't wait to see pictures as they get older.
> 
> 10! 8O


I love calicos myself and they ARE better with longer hair. 
Yeah I will definitely have to keep posted with them as they grow. I did that for the mommy when she was growing up. I was lucky enough to be there since day one for her and now for her litter. I'm excited. It may cost alot in film, but it will be well worth it. hehe.


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## Kendalyn (Feb 9, 2008)

They're all very cute 

Can I ask why you bred your cat?


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## melysion (Mar 12, 2007)

CloversAMommy said:


> I came to this forum hoping that I will be accepted here. I have had problems with people telling me that I am irresponsible for letting my cat breed. And most people don't believe me, but on the 7th my Beautiful Medium-hair Calico Hemmingway cat gave birth to TEN kittens.


Hmm. People tend to be against breeding - particularly when it comes to non breed cats - only because there are soooo many homeless kitties out there in shelters and being PTS every day simply because they have nowhere to go. And the more kittens there are born, the more that are killed simply because they don't have a home.

I know some people allow their female cats to have one lot of kitties before getting sprayed. And I kinda understand that - we all love babies. I personally couldn't do it because of the homeless kitty situation but I understand why people do. Its a real joy to see the little ones grow and develop.

Is your cat a known breed? If not, I do hope this is her only litter. I hope you didn't mind me saying all that but the homeless kitty situation is something you have to consider before breeding more.

But - regardless of that I think they are all absolutely stunning and Mum looks really happy. I look forward to lots of pics 

My mother is somewhat of a 'pregnant stray cat' magnet. At one point she had two 8O stray pregnant females come in and they had babies within days of each other. The first had two enormous babies. The second gave birth a few days later and had 12! TWELVE!! Sadly, one died and we were on the way to losing another until Mum gave this tiny kitty to the other Mummy cat with only two babies to feed. The foster Mummy just looked down and thought 'Oh - got another one. Oh well' and fed it with the others. This tiny little kitty lived and in fact we kept her (Annie) until she died of cancer aged 9.

So - anyway - why did I tell you that? Oh yes- your cat having ten kittens. I certainly believe you. You are going to be soooo busy later :lol:

EDIT: Just looked up Hemmingway cat (had no idea what that meant) to find it means polydactyl cat. Cute. I think polydactyl cats are neat.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

melysion said:


> EDIT: Just looked up Hemmingway cat (had no idea what that meant) to find it means polydactyl cat.


Oh. I'm disappointed.  
I had always thought a "Hemingway Cat" was a direct descendent of Hemingway's original 6-toed cat, not just a term for _any_ polydactyl cat.


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## hypertweeky (Nov 25, 2007)

Oh my gosh she looks like my baby RUBILLA (RIP)
:heart 
10 does seem like a lot but then again I am not the expertm perhaps others will chime in with their advice!
You have come to a great forum, CONGRATS!


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## CloversAMommy (Apr 9, 2008)

Thanks.. and to those of you who asked me why I bred her. I don't really want to argue so I will say plainly that I was hoping to get a FEW descendents from her cause in the past i've always thought I missed out when I lost pets and I didn't have anyone left behind to remind me of them. I didn't realize we were having ten. If I had I probably wouldn't have done it. 
But believe me I know the situation and to that I rebuttle that cats aren't the only ones out there that are overpopulated.. we as humans are the worst. Ahem that's just how I see it. 
This will be her last. I already neutered my males and the kittens will all be found homes around 7 weeks. 
Thanks for all the positibe comments though. I can already see that this forum is waaay better than others out there. ^_^


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## mstx (Mar 4, 2008)

can we get picutres of the cuties???


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## My3babies (Sep 27, 2007)

7 weeks is pretty young to be separated from their mom. I hope you will consider keeping them a little longer. Here is some good information from another thread.



doodlebug said:


> It's not just about being weaned and litter trained. Sure they'll survive away from mom, but it's not the best thing for them. It's about socialization (e.g. learning not to bite), security (kittens separated too soon will often have life long suckling and kneading issues) and health.
> 
> Please read the article in the link below. I hope you'll reconsider, the kittens will be much better off and while the potential new owners will be disappointed, it will be better for them in the long run.
> 
> ...


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## Sol (Feb 20, 2003)

Congratulations!

10 is quite a litter. I would say it is uncommon. The normal litter size is 4-6 kittens. Make sure you weigh them regulary, I recommend twice a day and be very observant on their energy level. In such a big litter it's quite possible that one or two won't get enough food and then you'll have to step in and help them.

10 kittens might put the mother under a lot of pressure so she might want to wean them earlier than usual so start feeding them solid food when they're 3 weeks old, just in case. I usually don't start with solids until the kittens are 4 weeks old but a large litter will take a lot of energy from the mother.


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## melysion (Mar 12, 2007)

Seven weeks is a little early to be leaving Mum. 12 weeks is the recommended.

So. Where are those photos?


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## CloversAMommy (Apr 9, 2008)

My3babies said:


> 7 weeks is pretty young to be separated from their mom. I hope you will consider keeping them a little longer. Here is some good information from another thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info.. I will keep them as long as I need.


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## CloversAMommy (Apr 9, 2008)

Alright hopefull these pictures show up


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## mstx (Mar 4, 2008)

Oh they are so cute!!!!


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## Kendalyn (Feb 9, 2008)

CloversAMommy said:


> My3babies said:
> 
> 
> > 7 weeks is pretty young to be separated from their mom. I hope you will consider keeping them a little longer. Here is some good information from another thread.
> ...


Keep them as long as _they_ need.

Hopefully you are spaying/neutering them before they go to new homes or at least requiring a hefty deposit only to be returned after their new owners prove they've been altered.

With 70% of cats being put to sleep at my shelter, I can't understand your kind of selfishness.


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## melysion (Mar 12, 2007)

wow. so many kitties. very cute. i hope they continue to do well


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## Jimmyness (Dec 31, 2005)

Wow!  Mother cat must have been absolutely buggered after giving birth to all of them!!

I guess you cant blame people for being upset about you breeding, expecially the ones that have worked in shelters and experienced the overpopulation crisis/euthanising first hand, must be realy tough for them.  Especially when faced with the type of person that is causing the problem. But i understand what you mean about other forums being so nasty, i mean some of the stuff people get away with saying is insane! Realy nasty language and personal attacks etc. You dont have to worry, we're not like that here.


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## CloversAMommy (Apr 9, 2008)

"Especially when faced with the type of person that is causing the problem."

So is anyone that breeds an unpedigreed pet considered irresponsible.. I'm sorry I don't quite understand this. I mean plenty of poor mixed humans have kids... who are we to say they can't? Isn't it basically the same thing... 
Yes I know they have sometimes ten times more children than us, but still why don't women adopt instead of getting hormone treatments (which can create mutiple births).
I'm sorry, but I just like to defend what I think is a beautiful thing when treated properly, just as any mother would do for her children.


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

That is exactly my problem with this whole stupid argument. Why is it okay for purebred breeders to breed and NO ONE ELSE? Although I'm not knocking all purebred breeders, just the elitists.


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## hypertweeky (Nov 25, 2007)

marie73 said:


> That is exactly my problem with this whole stupid argument. Why is it okay for purebred breeders to breed and NO ONE ELSE? Although I'm not knocking all purebred breeders, just the elitists.


I agree Marie, as I said earlier, purebred kittens prevent shelter kitties from being adopted, so breeders should be questioned as well...


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## CloversAMommy (Apr 9, 2008)

hypertweeky said:


> marie73 said:
> 
> 
> > That is exactly my problem with this whole stupid argument. Why is it okay for purebred breeders to breed and NO ONE ELSE? Although I'm not knocking all purebred breeders, just the elitists.
> ...


Well said. I agree completely.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

*Responsible breeders are not the problem. Irresponsible breeders ARE the problem, whether moggies or pedigreed.*

While I have strong feelings on the subject of pet over-population, spay/neuter options and kill-shelter euthanasia, I do not feel this is the thread to air them. This is a 'new-mommy-cat' thread.


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## melysion (Mar 12, 2007)

marie73 said:


> That is exactly my problem with this whole stupid argument. Why is it okay for purebred breeders to breed and NO ONE ELSE? Although I'm not knocking all purebred breeders, just the elitists.


I don't think its a stupid argument. However, I do see your point regarding the purebreeds. Why is it ok to breed one set of cats over another? Sadly, I don't have the answer to that. Perhaps its because purebreed breeders have to registered and therefore its controlled (I am guessing here - I actually have no idea). 

Regardless of that.

I wouldn't call people irresponsible for breeding their cats, I just want them to think. Yes, having baby cats are lovely. My Mum used to be heavily involved in cat rescue and I saw lots of baby cats and they are cute and tiny and lovable and all the rest of it. I like seeing kittens on here as much as the next person.

BUT

We all know, everyone on this forum knows, there is a seriously big problem with too many cats and too few homes to put them in. Yes, I'm sure the people that bring their kitties here for us to love find them good homes. Thats excellent of course.

However - for every cat that is born, another is made homeless. You might not like that idea, but that is how it is. Your ten kittens, OP, will, I'm sure get lovely homes. But - you know there will be another group of ten kittens waiting in a shelter, and some of those wont be lucky enough to be in a no kill shelter, that won't get those homes. Why? Because your kittens will have gotten their first.

Some of those ten kittens waiting for homes that your ten kittens have taken up, will be killed. They will be put to sleep because they have nowhere else to go. What an absolutely appalling waste of up to ten little lives.

Theres no way people can be stopped from breeding their cats unnecessarily. There will always be some. But if as many people as possible spay and neuter their animals the cat overpopulation problem might just be reduced. Maybe. 

It is worth remembering that a significant proportion of cat owners on this forum adopted their cats from animal shelters or from places where they weren't wanted anymore. So, I don't understand why some people are so against me on this. 

I will repeat - its not a stupid argument. Its a very important topic to discuss for anyone who loves and cares for cat welfare.

Right, I'm done with this topic. Flame away. I don't care. I'm standing by what I say regardless.


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## melysion (Mar 12, 2007)

Heidi n Q said:


> *Responsible breeders are not the problem. Irresponsible breeders ARE the problem, whether moggies or pedigreed.*
> 
> While I have strong feelings on the subject of pet over-population, spay/neuter options and kill-shelter euthanasia, I do not feel this is the thread to air them. This is a 'new-mommy-cat' thread.


Sorry, Heidi, you are right. I just get extremely frustrated by this sometimes. Perhaps I ought to delete the post above? 

Its not my intention to annoy or upset people, just make them think. But I still stand by my beliefs on this topic.

Perhaps there ought to be a sticky on this topic that people can gently be steered towards at the appropriate time?


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## Kendalyn (Feb 9, 2008)

CloversAMommy said:


> "Especially when faced with the type of person that is causing the problem."
> 
> So is anyone that breeds an unpedigreed pet considered irresponsible.. I'm sorry I don't quite understand this. I mean plenty of poor mixed humans have kids... who are we to say they can't? Isn't it basically the same thing...
> Yes I know they have sometimes ten times more children than us, but still why don't women adopt instead of getting hormone treatments (which can create mutiple births).
> I'm sorry, but I just like to defend what I think is a beautiful thing when treated properly, just as any mother would do for her children.


People and cats are not the same. You can't compare them. At all. Ever. It just doesn't make any sense.


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

Your arguments make no logical sense. For every moggie that's born *AND* for every purebred that's born, there's another homeless kitty not getting adopted. There's NO difference.


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## melysion (Mar 12, 2007)

marie73 said:


> Your arguments make no logical sense. For every moggie that's born *AND* for every purebred that's born, there's another homeless kitty not getting adopted. There's NO difference.


marie, i am not disagreeing with you on that.

i understand that point. its unnecessary breeding in general i am talking about.


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

Whew! Alrighty then!


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

This thread is a new mommy wanting her kittens admired. Please stay on topic. If anyone feels the need to continue discussing who has the right to breed, please start another thread.


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## Sol (Feb 20, 2003)

marie73 said:


> Your arguments make no logical sense. For every moggie that's born *AND* for every purebred that's born, there's another homeless kitty not getting adopted. There's NO difference.


There is a difference though. People that buy a purebred generally is interested in that particular breed, not in any other kind of cat. The people who buy my Devon Rex kittens aren't interested in a moggie, in a Siames, in an Aby, in a Perisan etc. They want a Devon Rex due to this breeds particular traits.

Some people can't buy a cat from the shelter even if they want to because of allergies. If they tolerate a Sphynx, a Devon Rex or a Siamese that's the kind of cat they might go for. I would have no cats if the Devon Rex hadn't existed. 

So no, purebreeds do not automatically take away homes from homeless cats.


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

You're the last person I would ever mean to insult, Sol. I know your cats are special and for some people, they're the only choice.


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## CloversAMommy (Apr 9, 2008)

Sol said:


> marie73 said:
> 
> 
> > Your arguments make no logical sense. For every moggie that's born *AND* for every purebred that's born, there's another homeless kitty not getting adopted. There's NO difference.
> ...


Are you saying that Devon Rex are hypoallergenic? I've never heard that before. If so, that is awesome news for alot of people I know.


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## Sol (Feb 20, 2003)

CloversAMommy said:


> Are you saying that Devon Rex are hypoallergenic? I've never heard that before. If so, that is awesome news for alot of people I know.


That's the magic in it all, some allergics tolerate breeds you wouldn't dream of being tolerated by allergics. Allergies are very individual. I know allergics that only tolerate Korats, I tolerate Devon Rex, some tolerate Siamese, a few tolerate Persians etc.

I don't like calling any breed hypoallergenic, but I do know that many allergics have found one breed they tolerate and it can be any breed. I know a few that tolerate their moggie. This is one part of the magic in diversity.

So, lets not "kidnap" this thread any longer. :wink:


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## hechicera (Mar 31, 2008)

I would like to see more pictures of the babies =) is this possible?? 

You could argue all day about the bad/good of breeding but the fact is the kittens are here now.... so lets enjoy them!


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## CloversAMommy (Apr 9, 2008)

hechicera said:


> I would like to see more pictures of the babies =) is this possible??
> 
> You could argue all day about the bad/good of breeding but the fact is the kittens are here now.... so lets enjoy them!


When I manage to get good pictures of them I will be sure to post them. My camera isn't working so great. 
The kitties are starting to open their eyes already so I will definitely be taking pictures.


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

You tease! I saw your name and thought there were new pictures. It's okay. We'll wait. Impatiently.


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## CloversAMommy (Apr 9, 2008)

Alright well these are the four that are currently suckling on their mommy. The others have been moved to a foster mommy since Clover is recovering from her Spay. 
For some reason the calicos want to be with their mommy and no one else. haha.


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## melysion (Mar 12, 2007)

cute.

I'm glad its working out with the foster Mum as well. Sounds like its all going well


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