# Science Diet Food or What Else?



## spockally (Mar 7, 2011)

I admit that I was ignorant about what to feed to our cats and I am really ashamed to be in this forum telling/asking such a thing... But, I wonder if anyone can recommend good dry or can food to switch for my senior cats.

When Ally was about 2-3 yrs old and Spock was 7 weeks old, my husband and I were both students and could not afford expensive cat food. So, we have been giving Purina Cat Chow. They like eating this, so I did not try to change. After we had two kids and I got so busy, I did not pay enough attention to our kitties and I felt really bad.... Shame on me! Ally is now about 13 yrs old and Spock is 12 yrs old. Spock developed hyper thyroid and he started medication about a week ago. Ally lost another weight and she weighs now 6.8 lbs only (she was 8 lbs 10 years ago). The vet checked her bloodwork and there was nothing wrong, thank God! however, she had gigivitis and inflammation which might have been causing her not being able to eat much. So, she had her teeth cleaning and 4 teeth extracted on Thursday hoping that she will gain her weight back by being able to eat better. Now she has to eat soft food, which I mix Cat Chow with water and microwave to make it soft as the vet recommended. She loves it and I feel that she is eating more than before! The vet recommended to add one can a day of can wet food and switch to Hill's Science Diet Senior once she recovered. I checked the content of the Science Diet Senior can food, but it starts with "water" just like in Friskies, etc. the ones you can find in grocery stores. Is Science's Diet still better than these kinds? Is there any particular reasons that vets always recommend Science Diet? Is it better to stick to the vet recommendation or let them try another kind? Since Ally lost weight, I was wondering if she needs more protein and I am afraid that cat food for mature/senior cats might not have enough nutrition for her to gain back some weight. I went to Petco and was lost to see so many kinds of can and dry food. I cannot afford too expensive ones but if it is worth of money, I might want to try so our babies can live longer ans stay healthy. I feel ashamed to post such many basic questions, but if anyone can give me some thoughts or recommendation, I really appreciate any help! Thank you so much for reading and your help! Have a good day!


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## Quartermutt (Jun 23, 2010)

Almost anything is better than SD. Look for something that has a 'named' meat or meat product as the majority of the first 5-10 ingredients, i.e. deboned chicken, turkey meal. Avoid artificial colors, avoid grains/corn, SD has corn products as something like 4-6 of the first 10 ingredients. The higher the protein, the better; Wellness Core has 50%, SD has 30ish%. Avoid by-products, especially 'unnamed' by-products; SD starts with chicken by-products and some just use poultry by-products.

If you feed kibble, canned mixed with water is a good thing as cats don't have a 'drinking' instinct to drink enough to stay hydrated enough. 

Mine get Solid Gold's Indigo Moon (46% protein, no grains/corn/soy, named meats) and canned/water mixed to a thick batter consistency.


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## laurief (Jun 22, 2008)

spockally said:


> I admit that I was ignorant about what to feed to our cats


Most of us were ignorant about how to feed our cats until we learned better. I didn't smarten up until four years ago. Before that, I fed Cat Chow for 40 yrs!



> Spock developed hyper thyroid and he started medication about a week ago. Ally lost another weight and she weighs now 6.8 lbs only (she was 8 lbs 10 years ago). The vet checked her bloodwork and there was nothing wrong


Does this mean that you got the new blood test results back and Ally isn't hyperT? If that's the case, that's great news! Did you start Spock back on methimazole again?



> Is Science's Diet still better than these kinds?


No, Science Diet isn't better than anything. It's low quality food.



> Is there any particular reasons that vets always recommend Science Diet?


From what I've read, Hill's (the manufacturer of SD) does extensive marketing to vets, both in and out of vet school, so that's the brand that vets tend to recommend. It has nothing to do with the quality of the food (or lack thereof).



> Is it better to stick to the vet recommendation or let them try another kind?


Try a variety of canned foods, staying away from fish and seafood flavors, and see which your cats prefer. If they'll eat canned, that's a much healthier option for them both. You may find it difficult to convince them to eat canned, though. Kibbleheads sometimes reject canned because they're so accustomed and addicted to kibble. If that's the case with your cats, start with low quality canned brands like Friskies and Fancy Feast. They tend to be the most palatable to picky cats. If they'll eat those brands, then you can start mixing in some of the premium stuff like EVO, CORE, or Wellness. Hopefully you'll be able to successfully eliminate kibble from Ally and Spock's diets altogether, but do make the dietary switch gradually to avoid digestive upset.

If you have a hard time convincing them to try canned, let us know, and we can direct you to tips to hopefully make their transition successful.

Laurie


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## spockally (Mar 7, 2011)

Dear Quartermatt:
Thank you for your information! I did not know at all about SD..... All the vets that I had so far in two differents states say SD, SD, SD... so I was assuming something special about it! Even the worker at Petco said to me that SD is 100% better than Friskies. What a fool I was.... but I am glad that I checked the ingredents and posted this question. Thank you again for your idea and I will check into Solid Gold


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## spockally (Mar 7, 2011)

Dear Laurie:
Hi! Hope you and Tommy are doing great  I am sorry that I have not posted the update of Ally and Spock's bloodwork mixup posting. The next day after her teethcleaning/extractions, the vet said that Ally's hyper-t level is 1.9 (normal max is 4.0) and other results came back normal as well. Thank God and thank you for thinking about us  So, Spock is the one with hyper-T and I am again giving Spock the medication although it is still once a day of 0.25ml which the vet agreed and told me to bring him for recheck about 3-4 weeks, which will be around April 11ish. This time I will not forget to post the result! 

I had no idea how SD is in terms of nutrition. Since all the vets recommend in my experience, I thought this must be the best kind and I was such a fool to believe like this. It is kind of strange and sad that many vets recommend SD without checking the ingredients well or recommend it anyway although they know there is something better than SD.....I suspect they must be receiving some incentives from Hills 
Anyhow, I am glad that I checked the contents and have help from you and other people  Now I know that I need to return SD cans and look for better ones!

I would like to ask you something. When you mentioned "kibble," are you refering to dry food in a bag? You are recommending to feed ONLY wet canned food? May I know why? From somewhere I heard that feeding dry food (the ones in a bag) is good for their teeth, so I stopped feeding them canned food about 10 years ago.... maybe I was wrong again.... They used to eat canned food (Frieskies) at that time and loved it so I do not see if they will have some difficult time to switch but let's see.... Thank you again, Laurie!


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## yellowdaisies (Jan 25, 2011)

You mentioned Petco - you've already got a great resource there, as they have more high quality brands than Petsmart does. I know they have Wellness, Merrick, and Natural Balance - these 3 are excellent brands. Our cats get Wellness and Merrick Before Grain. Before Grain is Merrick's line of foods that have no grains at all. 

I'm sure the canned vs. dry experts will be here soon....but my understanding is that dry food really doesn't do anything for their teeth. Someone else can explain that further, I'm sure.  From my understanding, wet food is generally better for cats because it has a higher meat content, and therefore a higher protein content, than dry. It also has less or no grain, less fillers, and more water. Cats don't drink enough water, so they need it in their diet. That said, we feed our kittens a combination of wet and dry food. We just can't afford to feed all canned with the brands we use! 

Oh and just to add - when I first started researching cat foods, I was shocked about Science Diet, just like you are. I couldn't believe it was no good, since it's so expensive and it seems like vets and all the "professionals" recommend it! In reality, they just seem to pour a ton of money into their (very successful) marketing plan... And as a side note, Iams isn't good either. That was another shock to me, since I'd heard it was "premium."


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## Quartermutt (Jun 23, 2010)

Natural Balance Ultra: 34% protein, named, contains grains,
3 of the first 5 ingredients









Natural Balance Alpha Cat: 34% protein,named protein, no grains 3 of 5 first ingredients, named fat source









Wellness Core: 50% protein, named and first 4 ingredients, no grain, named fat source


















Merrick's Before Grain: 36% named protein, 3 of 5 first ingredients, named fat source, no grains 










Solid Gold Indigo Moon: 46% protein, 3 of first 5, no grain









Solid Gold Katz n Flocken: 34% named protein, grains, 2 of first 5









Last but least SD...Adult Indoor formula: 36% protein (a by-product meal), 3 grains (2 being corn) in top 5 ingredients, only one is a semi named meat source, fat source is unnamed (animal fat). What is the purpose of powdered cellulose (ingredient 6)????

















I know all of these are available at my local PetCo. These are just the kibble (dry food) for each brand. But from what I have found while spending 6 hours a week in my PetCo (volunteer cat adoptions) 
#1 Wellness Core
#2 SG Indigo Moon
#3 Natural Balance Ultra, SG Katz n Flocken, Merrick's BG
#4 Wellness, BB Wilderness
#5 The rest of the Natural Balance formulas, Blue Buffalo
#6-9 not much
#10 SD
#11-19 not much again
#20 Cat Chow, Friskies, Alley Cat, 9 Lives, etc.
(Specific rating may vary slightly according to personally and cat preferences)

Basically feed the best you can afford to feed and as well as the cat will eat. The best food is useless if you go broke buying it or the cat refuses to eat it.

Also, in my area, it is not that much more expensive per bag to feed SG or Wellness than it is to feed SD and my cats need less to be satisfied and my obesikitty maintains a lower weigh even with semi-free feeding instead of a SEVERELY restricted feeding schedule/volume (near starvation rations) where he continued to gain (an 18# cat was gaining on 1/4c a day and now has lost weight with one canned/water meal and readily available SG kibble. 


For canned food, you can either compare labels at the store or do like I did and cut/paste for a side by side comparison on line. The values will be different between flavors by the same maker so when comparing, try to match flavors between different companies.


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## laurief (Jun 22, 2008)

spockally said:


> Hope you and Tommy are doing great


We're doing fine. Thanks for asking.



> Spock is the one with hyper-T and I am again giving Spock the medication although it is still once a day of 0.25ml which the vet agreed and told me to bring him for recheck about 3-4 weeks


I'm glad there wasn't a mixup, after all. Now you can concentrate on getting Spock's hyperT under control as soon and safely as possible. Take him in for his retest 2-3 weeks after you restarted his methimazole. Delaying any longer than that will unnecessarily slow down his progress toward euthyroid.

Hopefully Ally will gain her weight back now that her mouth is healthy again.



> When you mentioned "kibble," are you refering to dry food in a bag?


yes



> You are recommending to feed ONLY wet canned food?


yes ... or a homemade diet. 



> May I know why?


Canned food more closely approximates a natural feline diet, so it's better for their physiology. Kibble is only about 10% moisture, whereas canned food is nearly 80% moisture. Cats are designed to get the majority of their fluid intake from their food. They simply don't have enough of a thirst drive to make up the moisture deficit in kibble, so cats on kibble diets tend to be chronically dehydrated. Chronic dehydration can have serious physical consequences over the long term.



> From somewhere I heard that feeding dry food (the ones in a bag) is good for their teeth


There are still lots of people who believe that, including some vets. Others, however, note that most cats do very little chewing when they eat kibble (they tend to more often swallow the kibbles whole), so any teeth-cleaning action of the kibble is greatly exaggerated. I've also read that the carbohydrates in kibble will create a film on the teeth that actually promotes plaque formation.

Maybe there is some advantage to feeding kibble, and maybe there's not, but I strongly believe that the obvious advantages of feeding canned (or homemade) far outweigh any possible benefit of kibble.

Laurie


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## spockally (Mar 7, 2011)

Thank you soooooo much to everyone who helped me and explain about cat food ingredents, advantages of feeding wet canned food, and even the difference between Petco and Petsmart! I thought they carry almost the same kind of things! I feel so fortunate to have you all helping me to figure out what is good to feed. With the list of cat food that you all listed, I went to Petco this morning. I decided on Wellness (chicken and turkey) for canned food and Merrick BG for dry food. I was impressed how much of protein is included in Wellness Core, but I settled down with Merrick BG due to the cost, thinking about two kids who need to be saved for their college funds plus other obligations  But, I hope Merrick BG is much better than Cat Chow  Thank you for giving me good suggestions!!!

I will start feeding canned food this evening and gradually start adding new dry food to the one they are eating little by little. The direction on the can label says "one can a day for 6-8 lbs cat." Does it mean that this is all they need if they are on only canned food diet? It doesn't seem to be a lot and I am afraid they might starve? No? Due to the cost, I might want to half can per day per cat and the dry food available all the time. Ally, Spock and Tora's weight are 6.8lb (hoping she is gaining some weight back), 10 lb and 10.3 lb, so they are not overweight. Do you think this feeding is okay? The new and biggest cat that we recently adopted, Tora, is such a big eater and I am afraid he might eat all!!! Maybe I should feed him separately.... 

Anyhow, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR HELP  Without your help, I was just lost looking at many, many cat food in Petco and did not know what to do. I felt so sorry for my kitty cats for having such a bad mommy who do not know anything about them, but thanks to all good teachers like you all, they can have better lives, I feel. Thank you again and have a great day!


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## saitenyo (Nov 28, 2010)

I remember hearing somewhere also that kibble shatters pretty easily when a cat bites down on it, so despite being a semi-abrasive surface (although as soon as it gets wet from the cat's saliva that abrasion goes away) it crumbles pretty fast so it doesn't provide much contact with the cat's teeth and really doesn't scrape much plaque off.

Really the only things that will actually help scrape plaque off their teeth are regular teeth brushings, or chewing on safe abrasive surfaces that won't get mushy or crumble easily (such as small _raw _bones like chicken wings, but never ever feed cooked bones).

As for feeding amount, it varies depending on each cat's weight, metabolism, and age, as well as the specific nutrient density of the food. My cats are about 7 and 9 lbs respectively and while I usually feed raw, when feeding canned I feed them 1/2 a 5 oz can per meal (so one full can per day). Since neither one is overweight, if they still seem hungry later I'll give them another 1/4 of a can. I keep canned around for this very purpose actually, to toss them some extra food if they still seem hungry after their raw meal (which is 5 oz per day each currently, 2.5 oz per meal).


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## Auntie Crazy (Dec 10, 2006)

Actually, Spockally, if you can remove the kibble from your kitties' diet entirely, that would probably be best for them. Check out these sites for more info...Feline Nutrition: 

Species-Inappropriate: The Dangers of Dry Food

IBD: Fake Food and its Consequences

Feeding Your Cat: Know the Basics of Feline Nutrition :: healthy cat diet, making cat food, litter box, cat food, cat nutrition, cat urinary tract health​Best regards!

AC


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## spockally (Mar 7, 2011)

Dear Raecarrow:
Thank you for sharing your experience and feeding routine. I was imagining how Leo and Teddy eat; one at the top and another on the bottom  CUTE!
I am thinking about getting bigger can as well if my kitties like Wellness. In a day n night, I see them grazing on dry food, so I somehow it is necesessary to feed often, but regular feeding like you do make sense. Thank you for letting me know. 
BTW, Leo and Teddy look great! I love their shiny coat! They look gorgeous  Have a great day!


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## spockally (Mar 7, 2011)

Dear Saitenyo:
Thank you for sharing your feeding schedule. Your explanation about the teeth issue makes sense! Like you said, when the kibbles get wet with saliva, it gets soft and lose abrasion.... I don't know why I did not notice until you mentioned. Thank you for letting me know! I am not familiar with raw food diet yet. I just noticed how popular the raw food diet is by reading some threads in this forum. I guess next step that I need to think about is raw diet. Thank you so much for giving me good guidelines and ideas! Have a great night!


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## spockally (Mar 7, 2011)

Dear Auntie Crazy:
Thank you so much for sending the links. I did not have time to read all the links yet, but I read the second one now. I did not know anything about these facts and I am glad that you led me to these sites. I registered myself now to be a member of the education society hoping to learn some more. I feel like I have been giving poison to our sweet kitties and felt so ashamed being in this forum for not knowing any of these important facts. I hope it is not too late to change their diet so they can live healthy lives. I know I have so much to learn from these sites and everyone in this forum. I really appreciate your help in guiding me and my kitties to healthier and better direction. Have a great evening!


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## saitenyo (Nov 28, 2010)

No problem, happy to help! And never feel silly for not figuring this stuff out right away. I certainly didn't know all of this when I first got cats. It took a lot of talking to other owners, vets, reading articles and books, and trial-and-error to figure out what works.


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## spockally (Mar 7, 2011)

Dear Saitenyo:

Thank you again for your kindness! I knew it took long for everyone here to figure out all the issues you face by doing extensive research. I feel very fortunate that you can share the experience and information with me. Everyone here in this forum are mentors for me and I always appreciate any help that you are providing to me  Thank you again!


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## spockally (Mar 7, 2011)

Dear Rae;
Thanks for sharing the picture! Amazing how far he can jump from the tree! How cute Leo just walks around there  I am glad to know that Wellness helped their coat become shiny. Ally and Spock are getting old (13 and 11 yrs old), so I hope Wellness will help their dull looking coat  thanks again!


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## littlebee (Mar 1, 2011)

spockally said:


> Dear Rae;
> Thanks for sharing the picture! Amazing how far he can jump from the tree! How cute Leo just walks around there  I am glad to know that Wellness helped their coat become shiny. Ally and Spock are getting old (13 and 11 yrs old), so I hope Wellness will help their dull looking coat  thanks again!


Hi again, Spockally! I may have mentioned on our "poo" thread that one of our cats is an old girl (at least 15). She was on Purina One for 10 years or so. Her coat was always dull and sort of greasy-looking...and she slept a lot, most of the day (we'd only see her for a little while in the evening...then she'd be back to bed). She often had a sullen look on her face and tended to get constipated and/or vomit undigested food. We thought it was "just Sabine". I feel awful that we didn't put more thought into it for her sake, of course...but, as others have said, we all have to start sometime. WAY better late than never!

Anyway, we switched her to grain-free in February of this year, and within a month her coat looks and feels 10 times better. No more vomiting, and only one bout of constipation so far (nowhere near as bad as before). And she's up, prowling the house, much of the day. She seems happier...."brighter" somehow. I look forward to getting her on more canned (she's resisting pretty hard right now, and will only eat one variety, and it ain't Wellness  )...and/or trying out raw with her (who knows...maybe she'll love it??). 

So, just another testimonial. Since your two are seniors, they might appreciate another senior's story!


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## Auntie Crazy (Dec 10, 2006)

spockally said:


> Dear Auntie Crazy:
> Thank you so much for sending the links. ... I feel like I have been giving poison to our sweet kitties and felt so ashamed being in this forum for not knowing any of these important facts. I hope it is not too late to change their diet so they can live healthy lives. ...


Please try not to feel bad. You love your cats and you're doing the best you can by them... as you learn more about them, that "best" will get better, but it's impossible to know what you don't know, until you do, you know? :wink

And it's never too late to make a change for the better! :love2

Best regards!

AC


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## spockally (Mar 7, 2011)

Dear Auntie Crazy:
Thank you again for your kind words  I started feeding Wellness canned food since last night and they LOVE it! They eat it as if they are not fed long, long time and they want more. In order for their tummies to adjust slowly, I am trying to take time, but .... they just LOVE it! I am glad. I am seriously thinking about switching to raw diet someday especially because one of them has poop issue now... I need to study more on this before I begin. So, all the links that you gave me and this forum really helps a lot! Thank you again and have a good day!


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