# Thinking about adding a third cat... but want to do it right



## heavyharmonies (Jul 20, 2009)

Good evening,

I adopted my 2 girls Sadie and Clarice about 4 years ago from the local animal shelter. Lately I've been thinking about adding a third. Both Sadie and Clarice are neutered females; Sadie is 6 years old and Clarice is 5. They get along with one another fine. While not lovey-dovey with one another, they tolerate one another's presence, and occasionally they will groom one another. They don't sleep with one another though. There are occasional bouts of play-fighting but are few and far between. It's a rather sedate environment.

I'm considering adding a third cat, but don't want to "upset the apple cart" with respect to the feline dynamic in the household.

The folks at the shelter are recommending that I adopt an adult neutered male; they're afraid that the odds are a third female in the mix might create problems. They are recommending against a kitten.

There aren't many adult males at the shelter; the vast majority of adults are female.

My house is unfortunately not set up well for being able to compartmentalize the new addition. It's an open design. I have two cat carriers that I can use for introductions, but I'm not sure how best to approach this. Leave new cat in carrier and allow resident cats to approach? I'm thinking that might be too much for the new cat though, given the traumatic nature of carrier travel (my 2 freak out whenever they have to go into the carrier and into the car).

No family/children issues, as I live alone. It's just me and the cats.

Where do I start?

My gals:


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

I hate to have to say this, but if you don't have a room you can isolate the new cat in for the course of the introduction process, I would not recommend adopting another cat. You can't confine the new cat to a carrier for days at a time. I know some people will just toss the cats together and hope it works out. But I think that's pretty dicey and destined to upset your applecart. 

Assuming you had a place to restrict him/her....I've done adoption counseling at my local shelter for years...I really wouldn't worry about the sex of the new cat as long as they're all spayed/neutered. I have 2 girls and a boy...the boy is the middle "child" and he regularly bullies both girls. The two girls get along great. 

I also don't know why they're discouraging a kitten...to be honest, if you're set on a 3rd cat and don't have an isolation room, then a kitten would be your best bet. Intros of adults to kittens is much easier...young kittens have no manners, they don't understand social hierarchy, personal space etc. They're just rambunctious little balls of energy and they usually just charm the older cats, who will also typically develop some maternal instinct. Tolerance for little ones is much higher than adults.


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

Let me speak from experience. Leave well enough alone! And send Cleo back home to me! How did she get in your picture!??? 8O 

I would be happy having two nicely co-existing cats.


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## Leazie (Apr 14, 2007)

I wouldn't add another one either. This winter I tried to introduce an adult female into my existing 7 cat house. We had the bedroom to separate her, etc. I was able to get several of my cats to welcome her, but my one queen bee would NOT accept her. I had to keep the new girl separated in her room for 3 months and if Miss Baby had the chance she would fly into the room and attack Christie.

I had never seen that kind of behavior in Miss Baby before, and was quite shocked. I had to rehome the new girl mainly for her safety.

I am sorry for being negative, but I thought you would want to hear my story.


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## heavyharmonies (Jul 20, 2009)

UPDATE

[I should note that when I say "Humane Society", (Champaign County Humane Society On-Line) it is NOT affiliated with the national organization in any way; it's strictly a local shelter.]

I spent some time reconfiguring things at home. I have a small 8'x10' room that, with some modifications, I can actually use to isolate the new kitty. I took the interior door off and replaced it with an inexpensive vinyl screen door courtesy of Home Despot. This way kitties can see/sniff one another, and more realistically it makes it easier for me being able to see who may be crouching waiting to scoot in or out before I open the door.

After "auditioning" cats at the Humane Society for about 1.5 weeks, and deciding that would adopt another pair rather than just one, I adopted two kitties:

Tweetie (whose name shall most likely be changed), a 5-year-old male orange tabby, a little bundle of health problems; he's had a rough go of it. More on him later.

Lilly, a 2-year-old female, domestic longhair, solid black. Absolutely GORGEOUS cat. Looks like a longer, sleeker version of my Sadie above.

I had the two together in an isolation room at the Humane Society for about 15 minutes, and they seemed to tolerate one another ok. A little bit of hissing from Lilly, and just dopey I WUV U from Tweetie. No major conflagration though.

However, all was not what it appeared to be...

Upon getting them home, while Tweetie was relaxing and fitting in fine, Lilly revealed her true colors: she is a high-strung, hyperaggressive little beotch.

Over the next 3 days she proceeded to repeatedly and continuously beat the crap out of little Tweetie. And I don't mean playfighting. He might be snoozing on the other side of the room, and she would march up to him, growl loudly and start smacking him until he scurried away and hid. Then, about 15 minutes later, once he settled in at his new location, lather-rinse-repeat. She also wouldn't let him use either litter box in peace. She would stalk and harass him whenever he tried to go.

Over the 3 days I saw no signs of it lessening, and Tweetie was becoming more and more skittish, so I talked with the folks at the Humane Society, and back she went.

I don't think she's a bad cat, just a bad fit. I believe she would do best in a home where she is the sole cat; no competition.

So as of yesterday, Tweetie is back to being solo for a bit (my Vet says I should not allow the cats to meet or even trade areas until they have a chance to evaluate the new cat(s), and they cannot get me in until the 18th), although I have my eye on another big dumb guy at the Humane Society. Now that I've spent more time with multiple cats there, I'm clearly seeing the trend that neutered males do seem to be more laid back and not as concerned with pecking order. Easier to integrate.

Anyway, back to Tweetie. He is front declawed (my two ladies both have their claws intact). He came into the Humane Society in June with a bunch of health issues: (1) hookworm, (2) ear infection, (3) flea infestation, (4) bad teeth. Credit to the Humane Society though, as they have addressed each of the issues with treatment, and over the course of the last few weeks I've seen him get healthier and more active.

What drew me to him? While a bit mangy and unkempt looking, he is, for lack of a better term, a "puppy cat". You know how little puppies, when they get excited, start shaking and want to lick all over your face? That's Tweetie to a T. While not a lap cat per se (he will tolerate being picked up and held for brief periods), if you get down at his eye level, he's just a big drooling purr monster. He's an emotional drooler; whenever he's happy he drools. His purr is loud and to the point that he actually shakes. He will head-butt and then immediately start licking my face. He'll lie down and his paws will start kneading a mile a minute.

He gets so excited to see me that he'll jump around purring, licking, and nuzziling for about 2 minutes, run over to his food bowl and eat a few kibbles, run back for more attention, then back to the food again, almost in an ecstatic orgy of affection and food, back and forth, for 10-20 minutes.

My kitties of course, want NOTHING to do with him at the screen door. Serious hissing, growling, and spitting. It's one way though. He doesn't hiss or growl back. Also, I've noticed that over the course of the first few days, the reaction of my tortie appears to be lessening somewhat; she'll actually sniff a bit at the screen without hissing. Little princess Sadie, on the other hand, is a growling machine.

My plan is, once my vet gives Tweetie a clean bill of health, to start allowing them to trade areas alternatingly while still not being able to see one another face-to-face, thus them getting used to one another's smells. Then after another week or so, try the integration. If Sadie does remain nasty, there's plenty of room for the cats to find their own space (as opposed to the close confinement that Tweetie and Lilly were in).

As far as second cat, I spent some more time with the adult males at the Humane Society. Most of the cats there are either females or kittens; there's only a handful of adult males. One is a big orange and white male named Colin; I was originally considering him when I decided on Lilly. Mistake - I should have stuck with my first impression.

However there's a relatively new guy, a big (and I mean BIG) grey and white shorthair naimed Chubbs (appropriately named). 5 years old, front declawed. He has a very similar personality to Tweetie - he likes to nuzzle and lick a lot. He's almost 18 pounds, currently on a weight-restricted diet. He is overweight, but not a pudgeball. He's got a big frame, a long cat. He loves to lie on his back with all 4 paws in the air and have his tummy scratched and petted. VERY laid back.

I think he would be a good match.

One of the Humane Society vets is taking another look at him today; his health records don't indicate anything outside of the weight reduction diet, but I want to make sure.

Question: I free-feed, dry food only. My tortie, Clarice, could also use to shed a few pounds. Is there any harm in using a light food for all 4 cats? Also, after doing more research, I've decided to move away from grocery store food and get a more healthy/natural food (Taste of the Wild, Innova EVO, etc.). Of course I won't actually change anything before consulting my vet. Will switching to a more "natural" food in and of itself aid in weightloss, or should I be explicitly looking for a weight-loss formula?

Thanks.

P.S. Yes, I know that most people recommend wet food over dry, but my work schedule does not allow for this.


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## Lisa 216 (Oct 25, 2004)

Wow, lots going on here...I'm just going to address the food question at the end.

Free feeding dry is not good for your kitty who needs to lose weight. High quality wet food doesn't have the high carbs of dry and is much better for your cat's health and weight. 

Avoid weight-loss formulas -- they are often made of poor quality ingredients. One of my cats developed serious health problems that I believe were connected to his eating a low-carb formula  High-quality cat food with meat (not by-products) as the first ingredient is your best bet. Avoid foods that contain corn.

I will also tell you that many vets lack knowledge about nutrition. Many of them receive minimal training on nutrition and it often comes from Hill's reps (makers of Science Diet). Not surprisingly, many of these same vets push Hill's foods in their clinics.

Now, I know you are concerned about the schedule part. I work full time and feed my cats both dry and wet. I need to keep dry in the mix mainly because I travel now and then and need that alternative. But I know there are folks here that work and feed wet, so hopefully one of them will jump in.


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

It doesn't sound as if Tweetie and Lily knew each other (other than the few minutes in the isolation room at the shelter) before you brought them home and put them in an 8 x 10 room together. If that's true, then no wonder poor Lily was freaked. Lily and Tweetie needed an introduction process between them before isolating them in a small room. I think your characterization of her personality is pretty unfair to her. She was just being a normal cat who was put into a very stressful situation. 

I would also recommend putting the door back on the room. The screen door is a second phase to the introduction process. Initially they should be separated behind a closed door. Once they get used to smelling scents and maybe play footsie and having done scent swapping through out the house, then they should be able to see each other through a cracked door. That's the point where the screen door comes in handy. 

I do not recommend getting a 4th cat until Tweetie is completely integrated into the house. If you bring another cat home and put him in the room with Tweetie, you could just as easily have the same problems you had with Lily. 

Regarding food....weight control formula dry foods replaced protein with carbs (usually lots of fiber). Cats are obligate carnivores, their system is not designed to handle carbs (how many carbs are in a mouse?) and they really don't process them well requiring them to eat more to get the nutrition they need. Free feeding dry food, whether regular or weight control is a sure way to have a cat gain weight, some will self regulate but many won't. 

The first thing that needs to happen is to switch to meal times with measured portions. The amount will depend on the caloric content of the food you choose and the activity level of your cats. A cat needs ~20-25 calories per pound depending on activity level to maintain their weight. To lose weight I would reduce that range by 5 calories, making is 15-20. So a moderately active cat that needs to lose weight should consume 17-18 calories per pound. 

A switch to wet food is really the best way to get them to lose weight and be healthy. The dry food dehydrates them, a cat needs to drink 1.25 cups of water for every cup of dry food they eat...and they just don't have that kind of thirst drive. Being perpetually mildly dehydrated is rough on their entire system, but particularly their kidneys. Grain free wet foods contain significantly less carbs than dry (the dry needs to carbs to hold it together...most grain free dry substitute potato for grains as the glue to hold it together).

Not sure why your work schedule would prevent you from feeding wet food, unless you're working something like 24 hour shifts. And even then you could do a mix (wet when you're home, measured amount of dry when you have to be gone for long periods). I'm unemployed right now, but when working I would often be gone for 11-12 hours. My cats would get wet for breakfast (last thing before I left the house around 7:30am), wet for dinner (around 6:30-7pm) and a bedtime snack of dry (around 11pm). 

Here are some good articles on nutrition and weight loss:

http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?a ... w&item=016

http://www.thepetcenter.com/imtop/catweight.html

http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?a ... cannedfood

Also add exercise with interactive play sessions...a laser pointer or Da Bird (a fishing pole toy that has feathers designed to really flap like a bird...cats go crazy for it) should really get your cats moving.


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## Sarah_ (Jan 2, 2009)

heavyharmonies said:


> Question: I free-feed, dry food only. My tortie, Clarice, could also use to shed a few pounds. Is there any harm in using a light food for all 4 cats? Also, after doing more research, I've decided to move away from grocery store food and get a more healthy/natural food (Taste of the Wild, Innova EVO, etc.). Of course I won't actually change anything before consulting my vet. Will switching to a more "natural" food in and of itself aid in weightloss, or should I be explicitly looking for a weight-loss formula?


My cat Jaxon has been on Evo food since he could eat. He use to eat the wet food and dry, I would mix them up. He now refuses to eat wet food...I don't know why, he just doesn't like it anymore. He is starting to get a little chubby, he is also just growing up to a be a big cat. He's not would I would call fat at this point, but just letting you know he does eat a high quality food and is still a bit on the chubby side. I do highly reccommend the Evo brand though. If you can get your cat to eat some wet food I would definately do that. If you open some in the morning for them it should be safe leaving it out until you get home from work to throw it away.


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

Sarah_ said:


> but just letting you know he does eat a high quality food and is still a bit on the chubby side.


Not sure what kind of correlation you're trying to make here. If he's getting chubby, it's because he's getting too much of the high quality food...it's not the food itself. EVO dry is one of the highest calorie foods out there...you need to cut back the amount you're feeding. Most people are surprised to find out that a cat on EVO dry only needs 3/8 to 1/2 cup per day (of course that depends on the size of the cat and it's activity level, but that's about the average). And if the cat only needs 3/8, giving him 1/2 cup...an extra measly 1/8 cup that looks so small...is a 33% increase in calories and will pack on the weight.


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## Sarah_ (Jan 2, 2009)

Well I have actually started to not leave dry food out all day for him. He use to only eat until full it seems like lately he just eats for the heck of it. I am monitering his food intake though and have bought numerous cans of canned food to try and he won't touch them. At my moms house she has 3 cats and they eat wet food but dry is left out at all times and none of them overeat it. He's the first cat I've known to eat more than he should. I honestly didn't know until I noticed him gaining weight. I guess what I was trying to let the poster know is that Evo is a great food but if left out to munch on at all times and also no wet food it won't matter that it's a high quality her cat/cats could still gain weight.


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## Bug_Hunter (Jul 31, 2009)

HeavyHarmonies, 

It's so nice to hear you go through such effort to make it work. I would like to add a second cat but Beanty's disposition is so wonderful I would hate for anything to change that. 

It's too bad about Lilly. Sheesh... But Tweetie sounds like a dream. He and Beantz would get along well. Good on you for taking a chance on a cat with prior health problems.


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## heavyharmonies (Jul 20, 2009)

YAU (Yet Another Update)

Chubbs came home yesterday afternoon. He's a horse. BIG kitty. Thinking about renaming him to Catzilla.

The first hour was a bit tentative for Tweetie, after his experience with Lilly. No hissing, growling, or spitting. The worst he got was he'd stop purring and the Cat Early Warning System (*huff* *puff*) would start, but it never went beyond that.

After 2 hours, they were sniffing butts and walking relatively easily around one another.

After 18 hours, they are just fine and dandy with one another. Lying next to one another on the carpet, both purring. I can sit down next to the two of them and once one starts purring, the other will chime in (purring by proxy?). I've seen each one lick the other on the head in passing as they are walking about, so while it is early in the relationship, I think they will be just dandy together.

Chubbs is just a big baby. When I left the shelter with him yesterday, what I didn't realize was that apparently Chubbs had a fan club. As I was going through the paperwork and he was in the carrier, two separate visitors to the shelter stopped and said "You're taking Chubbs??? Wow!" When I stopped in this morning to let the shelter staff know how things were progressing, they had just gotten a phone call asking if Chubbs was still available.

I've never had a cat this large, and his temperment just belies his appearance. He is a laid-back sweetie. He will roll over so all 4 paws are in the air so his tummy can be scratched... he looks like a giant polar bear rug.

I don't have any furniture per se in the room, so it's hard to tell if he will be a lap cat, but I think he will be. When I lie down on my side on the floor and pat my side, he comes over and leans up on me (he won't climb all the way up) "making biscuits" on my side, purring loudly.

At one point, when my Sadie came to the door growling and hissing, he just looked at her quizzically, and uttered a single "mrow" as if to say "Are you serious? Please."

Like I said, a very laid-back catosaurus.

Crappy cellphone pics follow.

Chubbs and Tweetie.











Tweetie.











Chubbs.


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## heavyharmonies (Jul 20, 2009)

Update.

The 2 newbies have settled into a nice companionship. Not lovey-dovey, but nicely tolerant with no hostility at all. I couldn't ask for more.

My tortie Clarice was making muttering noises at the door, annoyed that she wasn't getting any attention from me, so since Sadie was preoccupied, I figured I'd gamble and let her in the door and see what would happen. I was at the ready though, just in case the fur flew.

Now keep in mind: Clarice has tortietude in spades. She is a troublemaker, but is sweet in her own twisted way.

She came into the room. The 2 guys sat back and watched her sniff around the room. She did not attack either of the cats; in fact she was quite tentative. She was purring and rubbing against me for attention. The 2 guys alternately came up and tried to sniff her. She growled and hissed loudly... but never swatted, even when they were nose to nose... and she was still purring and nuzzled me.

It's hard to tell when she is serious because she is a drama queen. Normally, any time I pick her up, she yowls and screams at the top of her lungs... all the while purring and nuzzling me, wanting to be petted. I file it under "Methinks thou dost protest too much." I think it's her way of shouting to the world, "Oh, the horror! A human picking me up! The injustice! The travesty! Wait... why aren't you petting me more? Oh woe is meeee!!"

So I don't know if she was genuinely put off by the new cats or just posturing. The ears never flattened and the claws never came out.

I only let her in for a few minutes; I figure small steps...

Overall I think it went much better than it could have.

I've noticed over the last few days that Sadie, my princess, is jealous of my giving the new kitties attention (even though I still lavish her with lovin'). If I'm in the room for more than 10 minutes, she goes into my bedroom, picks up a sock out of the laundry basket and starts carrying it around the house doing her "momma cat" calling loudly. Normally she only ever does that about 10 minutes after I go to bed at night. She's calling me out of the room to give her attention.


Now on another subject, Chubs is really coming out of his shell from time to time. I was lying on the floor on my side, and patted it so he would come over and "make biscuits" and when he started, I shifted slightly and pulled him up onto my side so he was fully off the floor and sitting just on me. I wasn't sure if he would go for that. I wanted to see how trusting he is and how he likes close human contact. Well... he settled himself, the purring went up a gear and in volume and he reached out and started batting my nose. He apparently likes close contact.

It was awkward, given his size and weight, so it wasn't for long. He then walked around to my face and plopped down on his side, literally eyeball to eyeball with me... and starts licking my face top to bottom, and munching on my nose and my forehead. This is a BIG kitty, so it hurt, but I could tell they were love nips; he was purring loudly and the paws were kneading.

A big dopey sweetie. I predict he will be a bigtime sofa/lap/bed/snuggle kitty.


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## katlover13 (Apr 15, 2008)

Glad to hear that Chubbs and Tweetie are getting along so well. Sounds promising with Clarice also. 
Chubbs is such a handsome kitty! Some of the best cats I have ever had have that same color pattern so I love cats that look like that.

I won't give any advise on mixing kitties because I have always done it all wrong with no issues. There are people here who know how to do it the correct way and I'm sure their way is best.


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## OctoberinMaine (Sep 12, 2006)

Wow, you're really in there pitching to have this go well. That's admirable . . . and it sounds like you're really making progress. The two new ones are so cute!! Would you say Tweetie is orange, or more buff?


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## heavyharmonies (Jul 20, 2009)

A bit more orange than in the picture (it's a bit washed out), but nowhere near as orange as full-blown orange tabbies, if that makes any sense.


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## Jadedea Jade (Feb 3, 2009)

omg you are so lucky!!! to have the male cats get along with each other quickly and little to no hostility with the girls! i wish i was that lucky.

i hope nothing but more good things happen and they are sooooo cute!!!


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## heavyharmonies (Jul 20, 2009)

Took Chubs and Tweetie to my vet on Tuesday afternoon. Both kitties passed with flying colors. Tweetie weighed in at 11.4 pounds and Chubs weighed in at 18.3 pounds. As I pretty much suspected, Chubs is not really overweight, just BIG. My vet loved him and said I shouldn't change a thing. He's just fine at that weight.

For the last 3 evenings I have locked my girls in my room and have allowed Chubs and Tweetie the run of the rest of the house for a few hours to become acclimated.

They have explored and hunted and sniffed and resniffed and rubbed, and are getting pretty well used to the place.

I'm planning to remove confines this weekend and see whether or not the fur flies.

I think 3 out of the 4 will get along fine based on limited interaction. It's that 4th one that is the wildcard.

The FeliWay has been pumping for about a week now, so I'm hoping it will take some of the edge off...

We'll see.


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## heavyharmonies (Jul 20, 2009)

UPDATE:

Well, the first weekend with all 4 cats having free reign of the house has passed, and all four have survived with fur, if not dignity, intact. 

As I suspected, 3 of the 4 are coexisting in tolerance, if not harmony.

Dear sweet Sadie, on the other hand, wants NOTHING to do with any of the new kitties. In fact she won't even let her long-time cohabitant Clarice, anywhere near her without growling.

If a cat breaks the 6-foot perimeter they get a deep sustained growl along with full-on stare-down.

Break the 2-3 feet range, and the claws come out.


Now the good thing is that she's not actively seeking out any of the others to do violence upon; it's only when the others come near her and invade her "personal space" that she gets agitated. Chubs now knows to give her a wide berth at all times, whereas Tweetie, being the happy little social kitty, keeps making the mistake of trying to be friendly, and gets growls, hisses, and claws in exchange.

It's out of sight, out of mind. I had both Chubs and Tweetie in my lap on several occasions over the weekend, with Sadie only 2-3 feet away, alternately petting both, and as long as they didn't make eye contact, all was well.

Interestingly enough, Sadie can switch from growl to purr in a heartbeat. I'll be petting her and she'll be purring, one of the other cats comes by and she stops purring and starts growling, and once they pass, she'll start purring and nuzzling me again. If she's anything like my old cat Ariel, she's being protective of her territory, and that includes me; she's being jealous when she sees me giving attention to the interlopers.


Now that Chubs and Tweetie are on longer fettered by the constraints of their small room, new aspects of their personalities are emerging:

Chubs is basically a big ole' fraidycat. Loud noises inside or outside, the bass from the subwoofer on my home theater, or a growl from Sadie, will send him scurrying to under the couch or the bed, only to emerge hours later. He's also a big ole couch/bed snugglekitty... and this seems to emerge the most at 2:00am. Two nights in a row I've been sharply woken by an 18-pound purring fuzzball making biscuits on my chest. That's what I call a wake-up call. Not.

Tweetie continues to reinforce the fact that he is a 5-year-old kitten. He wants to play with everyone and everything. I see Clarice giving him sidelong glances, and as she is also a bit of a playful one, I suspect that at some point they will start playing with one another; she no longer growls at him when he comes up to sniff her nose, and the two of them will sit right next to one another staring out the window.

Chubs and Tweetie definitely are the pair though. Mutual furious grooming sessions, playfighting at length with one another (both purring, no growling or hissing). Chubs will be laying on the carpet in front of the screen door and Tweetie will start attacking Chubs' tail. Chubs just tolerates it, the tail lashing faster, which of course causes Tweetie to bat at it faster. After about 5 minutes of this, Chubs will reach out a massive paw and pull Tweetie to him, munch on his ears and start licking him.

So all seems to be progressing well for only 3 days together.


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