# Is there any hope? - inappropriate peeing



## TonkoneseMom (Jan 1, 2014)

*Long Story Short:* I fear we may have permanently messed our cat up and he’ll never recover and I don’t know what to do.

*Long Story:*
We had two tonkinese cats – an older one and a kitten (Toby). They were perfect kitties and very loved. Typical Tonkinese – very affectionate and laid back. 
When Toby was 5 years old – a few VERY stressful things happened within a 6 month period:
1) I had a baby (3rd one)
2) He and his ‘brother’ were moved to my in-laws (out of state) because our family was sent to live overseas for 1 year.
3) While living with my in-laws (who were very loving and big cat lovers) – Toby’s brother passed away.
6 months later Toby was reunited with our family (in a new home). But now we have the 3 children and the youngest was 1. So Toby went from a quiet life with 2 retired people – back to us with 3 young children.
A few months later we noticed that Toby had begun urinating on all things vinyl or plastic. Not spraying – urinating. We took him to the vet and sure enough – he had an infection with crystals in his bladder. This had been going on for a while because we didn’t catch the urination right away because he had been getting into the basement and finding luggage and bags to use. 
After 2 rounds of antibiotics and new special cat food – Toby was cured of the infection – but not of the behavior. We also failed to notice that he was urinating on our bedroom carpet. So this bad toilet behavior was basically allowed to totally get set in for around a year!
Then --- we moved again (up until that first move – we’d never moved with Toby) (we ar e military). 
Now here is where we are – Toby is pretty settled in. Our kids are older (youngest is 3, oldest is 7) and more respectful of Toby. Toby is on a almost entire grain free diet – he eats very well.
He is loving and seemingly totally happy. He likes to sleep on the kids beds and he gets played with every day. I stay home during the day – so he is mostly with people all day. 
BUT…he is STILL having toilet issues. Often he poops in the bathtub (which is not a big deal). But he also is urinating on things – like pillows and especially my middle daughter’s things – shoes or coat. 
We’ve had to throw away so much stuff just because its ruined and if I don’t totally get the pee smell out – he’ll pee on it again.
His toilet issues flair up whenever he is left alone at all. He seems to be completely distressed if we leave the house. He’s super attached to me – and if I’m not home and other people are – I’m told he roams around the house meowing.
We’ve added a litter box, changed the cat litter, I clean the boxes 1-2 times a day. We give him treats if we notice him using the litter box. 
But we are at our wits end. I feel horrible about how Toby’s life has been for the past 3 years. Its been so stressful for a cat – and we are responsible for that. But now Toby is acting in a way that cannot continue. Cat poo is one thing and I don’t even care – that is so easy to pick up and clean. But cat pee is awful and I feel like there is no hope. 
We are considering getting a kitten for Toby. It’s the only thing we can think of…but it could go either way – it could feel that void that Toby has since his ‘brother’ died – and maybe give him some sense of continuity. OR – it could compound the issue. Then we’re back where we started but worse – because now I have 2 cats.
I feel so much despair over this issue. Please can anyone give me any thoughts or advice? Especially anyone familiar with the Tonkinese, Burmese, or Siamese breeds – as they seem to be highly social like Toby.
I just don’t know what to do.


----------



## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

Adding another kitten at this point is NOT a good idea. If it doesn't help curb Toby's behavior he'll keep peeing everywhere and the kitten would likely do the same! No helpful.

I'd suggest re-training him. Confine him to one room, bathrooms work best because they're smallish and easier to clean, with everything he needs. He should stay in there for a solid month at least.

While he's in kitty jail thoroughly clean your house using a pet specific cleaner. (I prefer Nature's Miracle, Fizzion is another good one)

After the month is up you can't just open the door and give him free access again, you need to let him out when you're able to closely supervise him. Once he's had restricted access successfully for a month (no accidents) you can look at giving him free roam again. If he has any accidents you go back to square one with confining him to the bathroom.

He will cry and fuss, but the bottom line is that he needs to re-learn how to use the box, and confinement is the best way to do that.

Besides, if he cries but is retrained that's much better than any alternatives.


----------



## TonkoneseMom (Jan 1, 2014)

thank you. that is solid advice. we can do this.


----------



## Carmel (Nov 23, 2010)

On top of Becky's advice, get a black light to try and locate the urine. Also fill the bathtub when it's not in use with an inch of water to curb the pooping in tub behavior.


----------



## TonkoneseMom (Jan 1, 2014)

Okay -- Day 1 of Litter Box Boot Camp -- and poor kitty is crying that he is locked in jail! We are spending as much time with him as we can -- but I can't sit in the bathroom petting him all day! Is there any chance of damaging him emotionally by locking him away??


----------



## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

Nope, he will get over it. He won't be happy...but its necessary for him to stop peeing everywhere.


----------



## TonkoneseMom (Jan 1, 2014)

Thank you librarychick! I so much appreciate your advice.
I ordered a cat window sill perch - so at least he can look out the window.


----------



## Marcia (Dec 26, 2010)

TonkoneseMom said:


> Okay -- Day 1 of Litter Box Boot Camp -- and poor kitty is crying that he is locked in jail! We are spending as much time with him as we can -- but I can't sit in the bathroom petting him all day! Is there any chance of damaging him emotionally by locking him away??


Maybe there is another more comfortable room - but then you run the risk of peeing on a chair or carpet. You don't need to spend a lot of time in the bathroom so maybe you can double task and put a book, or do your computer work in there. Set up a comfortable place to sit on the floor or bring in a plastic stool to sit on that can be placed out of the way in the tub when not being used. 

My cat room is a spare BR without a bed in it and no carpeting. (if we DO get guests I have a queen size blow up bed otherwise the room is almost empty except for window perches and litter boxes). I set up a plastic Adirondack chair and footstool in it with a reading light and it's quite comfortable, albeit a bit hard to sit on. I spent hours at a time in there using my laptop and reading while Coco was assimilating.


----------



## TonkoneseMom (Jan 1, 2014)

Day 1 Litter Box Boot Camp Completed! Toby made it through! He's more comfortable with the room. We bring him out for supervised time - which he seems to enjoy. But he is totally happy if I sit there and read my Ipad with him on my lap. He just purrs and purrs and purrs.
27 more days...


----------



## TonkoneseMom (Jan 1, 2014)

Week 1 finished!

Toby has had zero pee accidents. He has pooped 3 times -- 1 time in the box, 2 times on the floor.

We let him out and walking around when someone can watch him at all times. 

We've switched him entirely to wet cat food (high quality) and the vet recommended zykylene 1x per day.


----------



## gizmothecat (Jun 26, 2013)

oh yeah!!!! progress. did you see him pooping in the box....to praise him??

keep it up....he will learn!!!!! good job


----------



## TonkoneseMom (Jan 1, 2014)

no - we catch it in the morning.

I don't know if he has incentive to learn to poop in the correct place. we even have TWO litter boxes in that bathroom - you can barely walk 3 steps without finding a litter box :0)

How will I know when he's cured of the peeing? Should I leave some clothes in there on the ground to see if he pees on them?


----------



## gizmothecat (Jun 26, 2013)

ohhhh this is a LONG process....some suggest a MONTH. no, i would not put clothes down to see if he pees...especially if he is still pooping on the floor.....baby steps


----------



## TonkoneseMom (Jan 1, 2014)

I know - you are right. We have a calendar taped to the door so we can cross off each day. I am praying that he relearns litter box etiquette and can be a good member of our family who doesn't pee on people's stuff.


----------



## gizmothecat (Jun 26, 2013)

patience momma.....patience.  your doing GOOD!


----------



## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

You're on the right track! 

You coukd try a completeky different kind of litter and see if he prefers something else for pooping. If you usually use clumping clay litter offer the pine pellets, newspaper pellets, or crystals. It may be he doesn't like the sand shifting under him when he goes. Maybe a puppy pad in an otherwise empty litter tray?


----------



## Marcia (Dec 26, 2010)

TonkoneseMom said:


> thank you. that is solid advice. we can do this.


We do this when we suspect inappropriate peeing in our shelter's colonies. We have a male colony with up to 14 cats, a femal colony with up to 10 and a cage room with 21 cages. If a cat is peeing outside the box we will move him/her (usually him), to a cage in the cage room for a few weeks. This resets the "use the box" button. Often this solves the problem.

I agree with offering a second option for litter too. No clothing down yet. Spend time sitting with him while you read or just talk to him. I love sitting in our cat room at home now that I have a nice comfy plastic Adirondack chair and footstool in there! It's so peaceful and quiet.


----------



## TonkoneseMom (Jan 1, 2014)

Thanks all! I appreciate the encouragement! We are allowing Toby out in the evening when I can keep an eye on him - he is doing very well - he is confined to the main rooms when he is out of his cage room -- and as long as he's sleeping on the sofa or on my lap - we let him stay out for an hour or 2. He loves to be in the middle of the family. He is fine with his cage room too (the bathroom). I will try new litter for one of the boxes to see if he'll poop in it. We are 1 week (and a few days) into the retraining and so far he is peeing consistently in his boxes. I scoop pee as soon as I see it. He does poo outside his box -- its about every other day or every 3rd day that he poos. Is that normal? The poo is solid, but not rock hard -- it looks like healthy poo if you ask me.
Anyone have advice for best canned cat food for him? He isn't too picky, but likes the constancy of pate more than chopped stuff.
He has NOT peed on his cat bed or the cat shelf (which has a fake lambswool cover) -- this is significant because he used to pee on his cat bed for some reason. This is a new cat bed - I threw the other one out.
Thank God for this forum -- and all the advice from fellow cat lovers!! You help me so much!!


----------



## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

That's awesome news!

Have you tried another kind of litter? Like I said above, it may just be that he needs something that doesn't shift under him when he's going. It may be that he's starting to get some arthritis.

I can't help much with the canned food, but there are a lot of good threads on the topic you can browse through.


----------



## TonkoneseMom (Jan 1, 2014)

do you have a cat litter that doesn't shift recommendation? He doesn't cover his pee or poo anymore either - i don't know if that's significant or just a lazy cat.


----------



## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

It may be he just never learned how to cover. That's fairly common with cats who were taken from their mothers early.

You could try something with larger pieces like feline pine, or yesterdays news. Some people have luck with just a puppy pad in the bottom of an otherwise empty litter box.


----------



## TonkoneseMom (Jan 1, 2014)

Well, the thing is that he used to cover... but not any more. I just added another (the 3rd) litter box with some 'crystals' cat litter to his cat room. Maybe he'll like that for poo? I will look into those other items you mentioned - thank you.

Another question -- so one of Toby's BIG triggers for inappropriate urination is my husband's backpack. Obviously we always keep it hidden away now -- BUT -- should we test Toby when he's closer to the 1 month mark of litter box retraining? Like leave the backpack out and hide and see if Toby goes and tries to pee on it? Then we would REALLY know if he was cured... what do you think? Or, not to be horrific - but we could make peeing on the backpack associated with something terrible -- perhaps we hide with one of those kid's nerf water guns -- the kinds that can shoot water 50 feet? Then if Toby squatted to pee - we could blast him. I know that sounds crazy - but maybe it would associate a terrible water attack with peeing on the backpack. Or - it would make him crazy. Its just an idea -- I don't know. I love Toby - I'm not being mean - just need the pee to be contained in the box.


----------



## Carmel (Nov 23, 2010)

Throw out your husband's backpack if it's been peed on. Sometimes a lot of prevention is changing your habbits at the same time... meaning, don't leave things out that the cat may want to pee on... the typical kind are towels on the floors or bathmatts or laundry baskets in reach.


----------



## TonkoneseMom (Jan 1, 2014)

Thank you Carmel - yes, excellent advice -- and we do this -- we are very tidy now that we know that Toby could find something enticing to pee on. But even so, sometimes you just forget -- I will find my husband a new backpack!


----------



## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

Oh goodness! None of those things are good ideas!

Ok, you need a switch in point of view.

Rather than calling those 'tests' they should be called 'settling him up to lose'! In training you ALWAYS should set your pets up to WIN.

Leaving the backpack out, especially this early on, is like a shop owner hiding $300 near the till as a 'test' then being mad when an employee who was going to be kicked out of their home due to unpaid rent takes it!

He has a reason for peeing there, leaving it out is just not fair. Besides, how hard is it for your husband to actually put it in a closet? Hes an adult and at this point he needs to understand that if he can't prevent the bad behavior then he helped CAUSE IT.

Now, the reason it's attractive for the cat to pee there us because it will havd a strong smell. Backpacks, just by design, end up catching a lot of sweat especially if its heavy or the weather is hot. Toby will be attracted to the strong scent (btw, sweat is largely ammonia...aka smells like pee!) And wants to make it smell like him too. He gas a reason.

Please don't 'test' him!!!!


----------



## TonkoneseMom (Jan 1, 2014)

Okay - I won't! I promise  I just wondered! I don't want Toby to fail! Besides I did say nearer the 1 month mark -- when we thought he was 'cured'. But I will take your advice and try to make sure there is never a backpack left on the ground.


----------



## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

To me 'cured' is MUCH longer than a month. He may go a month without an issue, but its like a chronic condition. Stress may bring it out, huge changes could cause a relapse...he may be *fingers crossed* largely accident free the rest of his life, but you will need to be more aware of prevention than if the issue had never cropped up.

Over time you'll get to know his triggers and how to handle them...but he can't be 'fixed'. Kitties aren't like toasters or other machinery 

As an example; my boy Doran started spraying at 2 years old. It took us 6 months to really get a handle on it the first time! We had no idea what to do. After, unsuccessfully, trying a yelling approach (which only made him sneaky and me upset) I applied my dog training background and came up with a method.

Now, each spring he might spray once or twice...but that's my cue to add the cat attract litter additive and keep the boxes sparkling clean. We added extra boxes throughout the house, then whittled down a bit. Now we gave 6 boxes for 4 cats and its working.

You also have to remember he's not doing it out if anger, to 'get back at you', or because he's 'just bad'. He has a reason, maybe not one that makes sense to us but we aren't cats! Lol

I find it helps to remind yourself of that.

Any mistakes and he goes back to confinement. IME they catch on quicker if they aren't allowed to make mistakes, but it happens. Dont give up on him!

Doran is 5 now and, as long as we're aware and careful (and he's healthy - another exception) we have no issues.


----------

