# Over the Rainbow Bridge...and keeping cats outside!!!!



## BabyKitty (Jan 14, 2005)

I just spent over an hour reading stories in over the Rainbow Bridge...man sooo sad.  What I dont understand is why cats are outside??? They get hit by cars, attacked by, coyotes, get too cold, get stuck in drains, and between buildings...ect.ect. I just dont understand why, unless you live on a farm! Then I get it. Why would you want to have a "pet" that lives outside. I am a HUGE pet person and Im just having a hard time understanding why you would pay money for a cat, to buy or adopt, and then pay for vet visits every 6 months or so, and keep them outside? Mabey someone could explain to me why some people think cats are outside pets?


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## spacemonkey (Aug 12, 2004)

I'm inclined to agree with you. My three youngest cats are strictly indoors-only. I'd be worried sick if they were outside, I don't know what I would do if anything happened to them  Our oldest cat, Beeper, is 99% indoors. The thing is, she was nearly feral when she showed up outside our door. She wouldn't even venture in the house for the first few months, and if anything made her nervous she panicked until she could get back outside. I mean, like, hissing, growling and clawing. Yes, we took a very big risk letting her go out but she wouldn't have it any other way. If she wanted to be outside, at least, she had a place to eat and sleep, which is more than she had before.

Luckily for us, Beeper hated any other humans and all cars, so she spent most of the time lurking in the woods behind our house. As she's gotten older and more comfortable with us she spends a lot more time indoors. Now, at age 15 1/2, she's lost a lot of that youthful energy and hunting prowess and will only venture out into our backyard. I realize we are quite fortunate to have a cat that lived mostly outdoors survive to nearly 16 years old. And in hindsight I wish we could had done more to keep her indoors and away from cat fights and the neighbor's dogs. Live and learn...

My point is, not everyone who lets their cat go out is irresponsible and cruel. Granted, the majority of cats are safer inside but there are _always_ exceptions.


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## Annissa (Dec 9, 2003)

Sabby's indoors only. When I was a kid, I lived on a farm in Northern Idaho. There was a feral cat there who was constantly having kittens. Sadly, every kitten except one died from the pesticides the farmers used on their crops. First their eyes would crust over and they couldn't see and had no balance and then we would find them dead in the road or in the fields. One survived. When I moved to town we still kept him outside. My neighbor shot him to death. My parents got me Sabby to replace the one our neighbor killed.

I'm sorry to relate this sad and disturbing story to all of you. But it's important for me to share how horrible things can go, even when you're out in the country. Please keep your kitties inside.


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## catlover7731 (Dec 29, 2004)

*My cats are indoors too*

I agree with keeping them indoors only for cats. My cats would be afraid to be outside. We have some strays in the area and you always see them chased by dogs  , or limping from being hit by a car  . What is so difficult about keeping a cat indoor? :?:


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## Gudewife (Jun 27, 2004)

Assumpta is indoor-only, as outdoor cats don't last long in the woods here due to the owls, hawks, coyotes, foxes, bears, and fisher cats. 

That said, my childhood cat lived to 17-18 as an indoor-outdoor, and I have a friend who has 4 indoor-outdoor working farm cats that are healthy, immaculately cared for and vetted (two are 16+, and the other two, who just showed up one day, are more like 3-4), so I don't think you can make a blanket condemnation of all people who let their cats outside. Another lady I know has several tamed ferals that would be utterly miserable as indoor-only cats, but are thriving as indoor-outdoor cats with her (she also has a tripod who is indoor-only, much to his chagrin).


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## OsnobunnieO (Jun 28, 2004)

I agree that cats should live indoors. But there are plenty of indoor-outdoor cats that do just fine.

I think the message that BabyKitty was trying to get at why was people would specifically go out searching for a cat to own, and have them live ONLY outside. And I get it. We had a really cool bobtail cat come into our clinic a while ago, we named him "Bob" (how original, I know :roll: ) and one of the high school girls who volunteered with us (ok, stood around giggling for an hour with her friend) adopted him. He's now back to being an outdoor kitty like he was when he was brought to us. 

I mean she's got land and he'll probably be safe... but we would hear stories about how she hasn't seen her other outdoor cat in a few days and hopes he's alive, etc etc. 

I can never imagine having a pet that I didn't share my home with. The same goes for dogs. We have a small (to me) dog for adoption named Tucker, he's about 40lbs, maybe thigh high. The woman who is trying to adopt him lives in a mobile home (trailer, whatever they call them now) and most people at work don't get it. "He's too big to be inside all the time, he needs a fenced in back yard" so he can stay outside most of the time and be in at night. I'm sorry, but that's bull. I plan to own at LEAST two Great Danes when I'm on my own and they'll never stay outside longer than they need to. Its one thing to be out and go to the bathroom, or run around and play but its another to stay outside because people think they're "too big".

I hate driving around and seeing a ton of dogs chained to a tree, living in a wooden box. Even their fenced in yards are off limits to them. They're restricted to the 5 foot area around a tree. Why would you get a dog and pay for all of its food (and sometimes high vet bills) just to keep it outside and away from the family it so wants to love?


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## SammyO (Nov 27, 2004)

My parents live in the country and took in 2 stray kittens that were ditched. They were both indoor/outdoor and the brother was hit by a car, my parents were so devastated they now keep very close tabs on the cat they still have. She is like a dog, she goes outside when they take the dog out for a walk, she stays on the property and they don't let her out of their site. They can call her just like a dog and she comes running. We had 3 big male dogs that were never fixed and all 3 had very short lives. They all got hit by cars. Their dog they have now only goes out on a lease.

What I think you need to understand is outdoor animals were an acceptable thing when most of our parents grew up. Country people never had indoor animals. Always indoor/outdoor, at least where I live. Now, with traffic being so bad and there being so many aggressive drivers and the woods being full of starving animals that have been run out of their homes by new building being built etc., people are starting to learn that if you love your pet, it is best to keep them indoors. 

Many people feel it is cruel not to let an animal outside to roam and enjoy life. No one I knew ever got their cats declawed, it wasn’t an option that anyone considered because cats were never kept strictly indoors. My mother in-law lets her cat outside on a busy street and thinks its okay because she sees her cat looking both ways before crossing. Now that I have explained to her the many horrors that could happen she has decided to keep her indoors and endure the whining. Coming from the country, I still feel bad because my cats do not have a life beyond my townhouse. All the pets I had as a kid enjoyed being outside. Letting them out is just not an option for most people now. For me, when money permits, I intend to have a home with a large from porch for my cats to enjoy the outdoors, inside. 

I have to admit, when I brought home my first cat last year she wanted outside and I gave in. We looked hour on the hour for her for 2 days and she finally found us, scared to death and having no interest in being outside ever again. It was a learning experience for me, and the more I researched the more I realized my cats could be happy indoors. It is really just a change in thinking and understanding. People don't intentionally let their animals outside because they don’t care, it’s because they feel animals deserve to live and enjoy both worlds.


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## chrisell (Jan 21, 2005)

BabyKitty said:


> Mabey someone could explain to me why some people think cats are outside pets?


Because they are?
Seriously, America is the first country I've lived where people are obsessive about keeping their cats indoors. I'd never even heard of an "indoor cat" before moving here. (I lived in Holland, France and England before moving to America)
Think about it - a cat is a _domesticated_ animal, but animals by nature don't live indoors - they live outdoors. It's natural for them to want to be outside. 
We've trained Dory (in so far as you can train a cat) to be in at night and not complain about it. We lock the cat flap and put a scratching post in front of it. She kept us awake for the first couple of nights but has since accepted that when my wife and I are asleep and its dark, she's not allowed out. I'm actually quite impressed that she comes in of her own accord about 8 most nights now. We used to have to call her.
In the morning we unlock the catflap and she comes and goes as she chooses. Sometimes she stays in all day, sometimes she stays out all day. (If she's in and we open the front door, she's then out the catflap at the back like a rocket though).
I don't like the idea of the heartache of a missing or dead cat, but I find it hard to think we could force her to stay inside all the time.
I found it an extremely difficult read when going through the humane society's website because they have this steadfast line that under no circumstances, should a cat ever be let outside. For a "humane" society that's pretty cruel advice.
In fact the only thing I find even less tolerable is the concept of de-clawing, something else I'd never heard of before moving to America.
A Cat isn't a furry, indoor creature with no sharp bits. It's an animal. If you choose to let a cat run your house, should you not accept that it might want to go outdoors occasionally?

I guess it's different strokes for different folks, and it depends where you live. There can't be one rule for all cat owners.


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## Gudewife (Jun 27, 2004)

It is a kind of North American bias. Honestly, when I grew up, cats came and went as they pleased (my mom's family is from the UK, so some of this may be culture clash), and no one thought a thing of it. It wasn't until I was in college that I really heard anything about indoor-only cats. Living where I do, and having to listen to the occasional stray killed by a predator in the middle of the night, I am converted to indoor cat-keeping, at least for me, where I live now (I have to admit, this was reinforced by the poor cat that I ran over just after Christmas). However, not everyone has the same living situation of roads, predators, disease prevalence, and not everyone who lets their cats out is derelict in their care. I know a lot of people who have indoor/outdoor cats who are excellent cat owners who take good care of their animals. I also know people who keep indoor-only cats in what I personally consider to be deplorable living conditions...so the indoor/outdoor issue is only part of the equation.


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## spacemonkey (Aug 12, 2004)

Every country is a different situation. But if you look at city, suburban, and even semi-rural environments in the U.S., there are countless dangers that present themselves to kitties. Now, not all of the country is like that, there are some very rurul areas without a lot of traffic, etc. that can pose a threat. But for the average American cat, outside is a very dangerous place. And it certainly _isn't_ natural. Automobiles are not natural predators, are they? And look how many cats they kill a year... Roaming dogs are not natural. Neighbors who will poison or shoot your pet are not "natural". And cats themselves are not a part of the ecosystem and can do some serious damage to local wildlife populations. I can't help but :roll: when someone says that being outdoors is always more "natural" for a cat...


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## Padunk (Oct 20, 2003)

chrisell said:


> Think about it - a cat is a _domesticated_ animal, but animals by nature don't live indoors - they live outdoors. It's natural for them to want to be outside.


I have a problem with this. They are _domesticated_ animals, ie created by man, and not by nature. "The average lifespan of an indoor cat is 15-18 years. For a cat allowed outdoors, the average life is only 2-5 years." (LittleBigCat). The odds are simply against long-term survival, and I'm not about to take that gamble. Not all cats want to be outside either, my Punky is a former stray and sure she likes to look out the window but she'll never walk outside unless she's following me. (That's her nature, I think she'd follow me off a cliff. :lol: )



chrisell said:


> I found it an extremely difficult read when going through the humane society's website because they have this steadfast line that under no circumstances, should a cat ever be let outside. For a "humane" society that's pretty cruel advice.


Longer, healthier, safer lives is not an inhumane act. My mother used to let her cats outside, it was how she was raised. It gets tough when you lose animals you love dearly to a motor vehicle, it's even harder when you know it could've been prevented if they lived inside. Another sad fact is that there are horrible people out there that hate cats. Annissa lost her childhood cat because the neighbors shot it with a bow and arrow. What do you tell city dwellers that live on busy highways? Should they not own cats because keeping them inside all the time is inhumane?

If you're willing to take these risks and you believe your living situation is suitable for an outdoor cat, so be it. I don't think you have the right to chastise others for situations you don't know or understand.



chrisell said:


> In fact the only thing I find even less tolerable is the concept of de-clawing, something else I'd never heard of before moving to America.


Look around, you will not find much support on this forum for toe amputations.



chrisell said:


> There can't be one rule for all cat owners.


Exactly.


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## spike481 (Nov 13, 2004)

I think most people on this forum are responsible pet owners and therefore make decisions on indoor/outdoor based upon their current living situation. As most of you know, most all of our cats are in/out. The exceptions are the youngest which only go out while I'm home, and are forced in at night or when I leave. Four of our cats routinely stay out all night. Nimbus stays out all night about 99% of the time by her own choosing. She absolutely hates being inside even though she spent her first six months of life primarily indoors. Dandy and Burnie stay out all night maybe 30% of the time, and Squirrel, who was feral and pregnant when we got her, is down to having maybe 5% all-niters. None of our cats are forced to go outside, and with the exceptions noted above, they all come in when called.
Since we moved here 3 years ago, we have had cat deaths due to cars and snakes. We've also had injuries due to those factors. We hope that it will never happen again, but we don't kid ouselves into believing that it can't. And we do cry our eyes out every time it has happened.
The foundlings and strays and ferals we have taken into our home get good food and medical care. We do not buy our cats (other than paying the shelter fees for the four we've gotten from there), we take in whatever God sends us. There is absolutely no way we could keep 14 cats indoors 24/7. The only other options for us are a no-kill shelter that is always full and will not take them, or the kill shelter where they may or may not get a decent shot at life. We spay/neuter every one, make sure their shots are up to date, and get them vetted if they get sick or injured. They always have a loving place to come home to. Maybe the odds are against them because they spend time outside, but they do have a home.

BTW, we are also currently feeding one stray, and two ferals that are hanging around.

This is the way things are here. I understand the indoor only philosophy, and if we lived in a city or a neighborhood, things would be different for us. 

This is just a current view from the minority.


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## Celeste_Eden (Jan 18, 2005)

my kitten squee is an indoor cat, because i live down town on a busy street. my other cat lilly lives with my parents and they live in a rural area. lilly is an indoor/outdoor cat, always has been. my parents live in a nice trailer park, there's a fence around the area, and right beside their trailer is like a community playing feild (large area of manicured grass for the kids to play on, etc.) and on the other side of the fence is a huge empty feild, a road, and then the fire dept and horse pasture and a few homes. lilly doesn't ever cross that street. she only goes into that feild to catch mice, which she then leaves on our front porch.... she's been an outdoor cat for 9 years and never even gotten fleas. she's kind of annoying in that she'll beg to go out at the front door, we let her out, 10 minutes later she's at the sliding glass door in back scratching to get in, we let her in, 20 minutes later, she wants out again. she does that most of the day, but especially in the winter, she spends most of her time inside, only going out to "survey her territory" and potty. we don't have a litter box for her, she only goes outside. she stays inside at night. and she's been happy that way for 9 years.


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## gellyutopia (Apr 30, 2004)

I think Spike has a special situation in which most of the people on this forum might not encounter. first of all, he has 14 cats! Also, he seems to be living in a more remote area. Everyone's circumstance is different. And I think if I had 14 cats there'll be no way I can control them from going outside! 

IN Australia where I live, I noticed that most cats are indoor/outdoor. It is really quiet even though I live near the city. Even if some cats were outdoor, I don't see many cats roaming around. However, it is different in Singapore where I'm from. One should NEVER EVER let your cat out. First of all, there're many psycho cat-killers. Secondly, the govt has culling activities of stray animals. Many things have happened leading up to the decision to cull, but if you ask me, I think it's all bullshit. 

I personally keep my cats indoor, and would never let them out. Lorren loves lazing around at home and only escaped once and came home 3hours later. She's curious but I think she prefers being at home more. Polo loves escaping but will only stay on the roof. He is really a scaredy cat.


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## Annissa (Dec 9, 2003)

Padunk said:


> Annissa lost her childhood cat because the neighbors shot it with a bow and arrow.


It was a gun. And then he hid him under his boat across the street in an empty lot. His kids found him and showed him to me.

I apologize for the nitpick.


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## Guest (Jan 25, 2005)

My cats are strictly indoor and all but two of them were originally strays. None of them show any interest in going outside. Sure, the love to sit in the window and look out, but actually go out..you gotta be kidding me. I think they realize that they've got it pretty good. :lol: 

I also share my home with two rather large dogs. I can't imagine a house without animals IN it. Come to think of it, it's actually the animal's house and they just allow me to live there to feed them and clean their litterboxes. Hmmm....now that puts things in a different perspective. :?


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## Padunk (Oct 20, 2003)

Annissa said:


> It was a gun. And then he hid him under his boat across the street in an empty lot. His kids found him and showed him to me.
> 
> I apologize for the nitpick.


No problem at all.

I want to back off a bit and apologize for the last post. As for letting cats outdoors I don't necessarily think someone is _wrong_ to do it. I just get really fired up when someone says "it's in their nature", or that it's "cruel to keep them inside". Because in my personal opinion, that's a crock.


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## yehudap (Oct 5, 2004)

Ginger insists on going out at least once a day for an hour or so at a time, but I live in Israel, not the US, so the circumstances are very different.
Israel is overrun with outside/feral cats, and there's no effort to control them. Dogs are controlled fairly strictly, due to endemic rabies (Israel controls rabies by giving the local wild foxes, wolves etc. vaccine-impregnated bait, but rabid animals occasionally get across the borders). There is little cruelty to animals here, and I live in a tangle of short, one way streets in the middle of Tel-Aviv, so there is little danger from cars (Ginger is afraid of cars, and won't go NEAR the busier streets).
Frankly, I'd prefer it if Ginger stayed indoors all the time, but let's face it - Ginger is much more strong willed than I am, and whatever he really insists on, he's going to get :?


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## SammyO (Nov 27, 2004)

We don't live in a world where it is safe outside for animals anymore. That is why we have endangered species. Humans are becoming a bigger threat to animals every day that goes by. If all cats were indoor/outdoor because that was the acceptable way to treat a cat some would choose not to have a cat because they would not want to suffer the loss of one or more cats, then we would have millions _more _cats that would not have a home. We have to protect animals as best we can, that is why we need to trust our own judgment when it comes to our pets. 

Not to mention a lot shelter cats don't get adopted right away and some are kittens that have never seen anything but a cage. I don't believe they would survive if they were to be outside. I know my cats would not survive our Canadian winters.


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## chrisell (Jan 21, 2005)

SammyO said:


> We don't live in a world where it is safe outside for animals anymore.


That's a pretty sweeping and narrow-minded generalisation. Do you think all animals should be in zoos then?

Like others have posted, I think it depends entirely on where you live, locality and country. If you're in the foothills (where snakes might eat your cat) surrounded by evil neighbours (who might shoot and poison your cat), then yes, you'd be right to try to keep your cat inside. 
But to say it's "not safe for animals outside" is like saying terrorism is a "new threat."


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## SammyO (Nov 27, 2004)

chrisell said:


> SammyO said:
> 
> 
> > We don't live in a world where it is safe outside for animals anymore.
> ...


It isn't narrow minded, it's reality. Don't you ever watch the news? Animals are being run out of their homes, it doesn't matter what country you live in. We are expanding and destroying wildlife every day. Animals who normally would not interfer in our lives are showing up on our back doors starving. The population is growing and with that comes more dangers for animals of all species. All I was saying is that it isn't as safe as it used to be for our pets and if people choose to keep them inside they probably have a good reason. I wish I could let my cats outside but that isn't an option

As for the zoo, I HATE zoos, I can't stand seeing any animal behind bars for entertainment purposes. I can't even stand riding horses because the instructors insist that I kick them to keep them moving. So your comment was out of line.

If you had actually read this whole post you would realize that I am not against animals being outside, but I understand why some choose to keep them indoors, including myself. I know some areas are safer then others but they are becoming few and far between.


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## chrisell (Jan 21, 2005)

I did read the whole post, I just thought the opening line was a huge generalisation. There's nothing intrinsically unsafe about the outdoors for animals.

By the same argument (taken to its extreme), it's dangerous for _us_ to be outside - run over by cars, breathing in toxic fumes, eaten by predators (in certain environments) 8O


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## DesnBaby (Apr 18, 2004)

My Baby is an indoor/outdoor cat. She is also a feral & was born outside. She loves the outdoors, but in wintertime we keep her inside because we don't want her to freeze. Where I live there isn't a lot of traffic. Baby is scared of cars anyways. A lot of the time she goes outside at night & sometimes in the daytime too. I think it really depends on the circumstances. I don't feel any danger for her because he is a tough cat. A lot of the cats around here go outside too. She doesn't go very far & she comes when we open the door for her. It is good exercise for her too. I don't think this issue will be resolved because I just think it really depends on the circumstances.


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## chrisell (Jan 21, 2005)

I'm not too worried with Dory. She always seems to be within earshot of our back door because if we call for her, within a minute or two she pops through the cat flap. If she's in the garden she tends to come in straight away.


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## Celeste_Eden (Jan 18, 2005)

SammyO said:


> I can't even stand riding horses because the instructors insist that I kick them to keep them moving.



if the horse is trained well enough, you just have to squeeze their sides to get them to move. also, it depends on if your riding english or western. western riding tends to be a lot more "lazy" than english riding. in western riding, the reigns are loose, you don't have to hang on with your legs, posture isn't quite as important, BUT the horses are extremely well trained. they have to be in order to not run wild in the presance of very lax controls. in english riding, your instructed to keep approximately five pounds of pressure on the reigns, sit up very straight, heels down, contact with the leg, shoulders back, elbows in, etc. posture is everything in english riding. i admit, i have kicked a few horses, even used a riding crop, however, the two horses i rode most, all you had to do was HOLD the crop and they would instantly do whatever you want, which was good, but kind of sad too. they were scared of it enough that just the presance of the crop got them in hand. but i've ridden a horse that just wouldn't do anything. wouldn't go into a trot, definately wouldn't go into a canter, so you have to kick them. they were lesson horses, who had been ridden by innexpirienced children for years, and they knew they could get away with it because children aren't going to bring them into line. i now feel bad for kicking beemer, because now i think the reason he was so adverse to trotting and cantering is because he was beginning to develop some arthritis, but none of us knew at the time.


my point is, if the instructors, or the owners of the horses would train them better, they would be responsive to just pressure on their sides, and all you would have to do is tighen your fist to turn them, rather than jerking on their heads and digging your heel into their sides.


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## Cat Fancier (Aug 4, 2004)

I live in the city and have 2 indoor only cats, 1 has always been indoors and the other was found outdoors by the shelter and they have both never shown any desire to go outside while living with me. Years ago i had an indoor/outdoor cat that died because it drank from a puddle of anti-freeze.

On the little bigcat site it says that the average lifespan for an outdoor cat is 2-5 years but in my neighborhood its even less than that, my sister recently lost an indoor/outdoor cat in december and she never found out what happened to her. Thats the worst part of it, all the worrying and not knowing where she is or what became of her......Was she hit by a car? Did some lowlife who fights pitbulls take her to be used as a baiting animal for pitbull training? Did she freeze because she got hurt and couldnt move and there was nobody there to help her? Did the humane society catch and euthanize her? (we checked but she may have lost her ID)

I'm thankful that i'll never have to go through that kind of worry with my 2 cats! (My sister will never let another cat outdoors again either)


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## Misery (Oct 18, 2004)

I agree that having a cat outside is dangerous, but I guess it depends on the cat and the area you live. 

Personally, I always end up getting Persians that have never lived outside and weren't raised outside or taught how to "live" in that environment. Now it would be irresponsible to even suggest my cat could fair one day or night outside without getting killed, attacked, or at least not eating. The dangers of a big city are overwhelming. Motor vehicles, mean people, other animals, and disease. Despite how safe you think vaccines are, your cat can catch plenty of diseases from the outdoor environment.

To suggest that a cat is entitled an outdoor experience as part of their life is beyond ridiculous. Just because a cat looks outside the window doesn't mean they're being deprived of a good life. Ever wonder where "curiosity killed the cat" came from? Again, unless your cat is outdoor savvy and you feel comfortable with it being out then it should be indoors. Animals aren't born with some innate ability to survive the outdoors just because they're an animal.


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## chrisell (Jan 21, 2005)

On the plus side, Dory is a mouser and she's pretty good at catching birds. We had our first present last week, which was ugly and nice at the same time. Nobody wants a dead bird in their kitchen, but it means she knows where home is.


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## Ducky (Nov 3, 2004)

My cats have always been inside/outside ones. It was just how I saw it growing up. To me it seemed natural to let your cat outside. Just like to Inside cat owners the opposite applies. My oldest cat is going to turn 20 this year. She has been an inside/outside cat her whole life. Now of course she mostly just sits in the back yard sunbathing. However she used to be quite adventerous. Belfour is an inside/outside cat. Mostly because he was a stay & I know that he was exposed to the outdoors, and therefore knew what he was missing when he was kept inside his first 6 months. We used to put him in the window wells (3ft high brickwalls outside our window) where he could play outside, yet it wasn't really outside because he couldn't leave the bricked in area except to come back inside.
As he grew smarter & bigger he learned he could jump over the wall. That is when he was finally old enough to get his rabies vaccination & neutering (perfect timing!). He now goes in and out as he chooses. Mostly for short stints at a time. He doesn't go out past dark, he comes in when he is called, & he stays in the yard & just in case we live at the end of a quiet dead end street. I have gone outside to shovel & watched him. He just stays in the backyard jumping in snowpiles.
My indoor/outdoor cat choice was based on how my other cats were raised sucessfully. I know there are risks associated with them playing outdoors, but I also know that there are going to be risks regardless. That is part of owning a pet. He is happier when he is allowed to play outside & inside, so that is what is working best for us now. However I respect everyone else's choice on how to raise their animal as inside or outside & I hope that they will too respect my choices.


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## spike481 (Nov 13, 2004)

Amen brother.


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## SiberianKitty (Dec 10, 2004)

I have 5 cats.

3 of them live outside, however, they have an enclosure where they stay in at night. They are let out late morning and come back in early evening (before dark). I'm a little bit worried about Chloie though because she escapes from the enclosure all the time. So, I guess she's mostly outside. And she's been hanging around with the neighbor's cat a lot lately, I find that kind of odd...I wonder...what they're up to?

Fiskars is both an indoor-outside cat. She's mostly indoor though and I only let her out when I'm home, as she is strictly confined to my room. I do let her have the run of the house though when my dad and step-mother aren't home.

Mia is an inside cat, so far. For one thing I just got her and she hasn't been trained yet. Another thing, she lives with my mother in an apartment so she can't go out because its too dangerous and she's still just a kit. I will take her outside on harness and leash though as I did with Fiskars and Fiskars' brother, Miles (who was stolen), when we lived in the city.

Cutie, Sarah and Chloie have been outside cats since they were kits!

- Cutie has disappeared many times but always came back. I haven't really had trouble with him other then a urinary tract problem that got fixed.

- Sarah got pregant and that's where Chloie and Fiskars came from. I've haven't had any trouble with her really. However, she doesn't wander off to far. She likes to stay close by and just enjoy the outdoors.

- Chloie ripped off her finger or toe (front paw) but that got mended (she ended up losing her toe). She's the one I need to worry about because she wonders off, even at night. She's my domesticated "wild cat".

As for Fiskars, well...when I lived in the city I left her outside unsupervised, big mistake! Luckally when I called for her she came. I noticed that she was bleeding a little bit and it scared me to death! She also had trouble breathing. My dad came down and took us to the emergency room. All her organs got jammed up in her diaphragm! It cost my dad $1,400 to get it fixed.

So, yeah...outside life is tough! My cats survived it though for 10 years, 7 years and 6 years (twice).

When I get a house of my own I'm going to keep them inside, they'll still have access to the outside if they so desire (I hope they are still around by then). The 3 cats are only outside because my dad doesn't like them in the house (they use to live in the garage for a few years but he eventually pushed them to that outside enclosure. I still sneak them inside every now and then though). I had to fight with him to at least let me keep Fiskars inside.

*Inside is better, but I believe they still have the right as cats to roam around freely. You can take 'em out on harness and leash. Build a safe outside cat pen for them to play in. Or take your chances and let them play outside under your supervision (not highly reccommended in the city...too much distraction...although it can be done safely depending upon the cat).

It all really boils down to what your cat desires. My cats like to come inside and they like to be outside too. I think this combination is great for them because they're happy and this makes me happy.*


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## MarkT (Jan 17, 2005)

We all have our own personel preferrences whether a cat should be indoor/outdoor. We have our reasons for these decisions. 
Our cats are and always have been indoor only cats. Back in the day they lived outside to come in throughout the day and usually, these cats would come up missing or two specifically, found out on the road. After, the last one was found dead, that was the end of the outside cat. That was back in the late 60's.

My reasons which I have two are,

1. Cats are much safer indoors.
No getting lost, no running into stray cats who they can fight with and or even be exposed to disease, no getting hit by cars, the list could go on.

2. My second reason is I do not like the idea of cats (who have been domesticated and are fed by us) killing the wildlife. Birds, Rabbits and such are not a domesticated cats natural prey. Some cats don't even bother to eat the animal that they kill, they just play with it.
My gf works for a vet who besides caring for small animals he is also an exotic vet. So, we seen alot of wildlife come in that has been attacked by cats and dogs.

And like I said the cats are safer indoors for example, the clinic also works with a wildlife rehabilitator. She told them a story once of a Great-horned Owls nest that was examined after the chicks left, to get an idea of what the birds were eating and such. They found 13 cat collars tucked in the nest. 

JMO.


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## spacemonkey (Aug 12, 2004)

Good point about the outdoor enclosure, Siberian Kitty. I don't want to take my girls out on a harness and leash, because then they will know where those outside doors lead, and at the moment we don't have a problem with them wanting to get outside. I'd like to keep it that way . 

However, there's really nothing like a fresh breeze and laying in the sunshine. So this spring we're building an outdoor enclosure for the cats that will attach the house, and can be entered through a door in the screen of one of our floor-to-ceiling windows. I haven't drawn up any plans yet, but it will basically be a simple screened frame with some shelves and a few other architectural elements. That way, the cats can come and go as they please without worrying about them escaping into the great outdoors. 

We have a great number of predators in our area, as well as threats from neighbor's dogs and cats (and the neighbors themselves :roll. We also feed wildbirds and squirrels in our backyard and really don't plan on serving up a smorgasboard for our kitties (Da Bird is sufficient enough for them). Hopefully, this outdoor enclosure will give them a lot of the benefits of being outside and none of the negative consequences.


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## SammyO (Nov 27, 2004)

spacemonkey said:


> However, there's really nothing like a fresh breeze and laying in the sunshine. So this spring we're building an outdoor enclosure for the cats that will attach the house, and can be entered through a door in the screen of one of our floor-to-ceiling windows. .


I so agree with you, they deserve to feel the fresh air and sunshine. I have been racking my brain trying to figure out what I could build at my rental that would allow our cats to be outside. I can't start cutting and drilling holes everywhere but I would like them to be outside with us on our small patio area. I have seen an advertisement in a newspaper for an outdoor enclosed gated tunnel for cats. It looked like an iron wrought bridge, it was really cool looking.

I found this website, I thought this was pretty amazing

http://www.just4cats.com/page7.html


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## spacemonkey (Aug 12, 2004)

*SammyO-*

Maybe something like this would be good for your patio: KittyWalk. They have one that's specifically made for decks/patios, and lots of attachments


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## DesnBaby (Apr 18, 2004)

DesnBaby said:


> My Baby is an indoor/outdoor cat. She is also a feral & was born outside. She loves the outdoors, but in wintertime we keep her inside because we don't want her to freeze. Where I live there isn't a lot of traffic. Baby is scared of cars anyways. A lot of the time she goes outside at night & sometimes in the daytime too. I think it really depends on the circumstances. I don't feel any danger for her because he is a tough cat. A lot of the cats around here go outside too. She doesn't go very far & she comes when we open the door for her. It is good exercise for her too. I don't think this issue will be resolved because I just think it really depends on the circumstances.


I also forgot to say that I'm also allergic to cats so having my cat ouside/inside also helps w/ shedding & my allergies.


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## BabyKitty (Jan 14, 2005)

I just wanted to say that I am pleased and quite happy with all the responses that I have got on this subject. I love to hear all your opinions. Keep em coming!!


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## SiberianKitty (Dec 10, 2004)

I'm such a horrible person.

On my way home I saw a kitty on the road, laying very still. I just checked to make sure that it wasn't Chloie (of course her territory doesn't expand that far so it's very unlikely) and to my relief it wasn't. I slowed down a little bit just to get that glimp, the eyes reflected my headlight beams and then I drove off. It didn't occur to me that the cat may very well still be alive. I was pondering on if I should go back and check...just to make sure that the kitty has in fact moved on. I didn't though, I'm pretty sure he's gone but then I didn't really check for any stomach movements for a sign of life.

I'm such a bad person, just because the cat wasn't mine doesn't mean that I can't help him. He does look very familiar though...I think I've seen him before.

It's really dark out and very cold but the poor kitty...

...if I went back to check and he was infact dead...what do I do with the body?

...if he still lives and gets fixed what's to prevent him from getting hit again?

I don't know what to do.

*Edit:* My brother and I went back to see the kitty. I mean, if it were my cat, I'd want someone else to do the same. It's been confirmed that he has passed on. Since there was really nothing else I could do, we just left the body there. Besides, the reflective eyes were kinda giving me the creeps. If I wasn't soo scared I would have at least pulled him off the road, _sorry kitty_!

I wonder what he was doing out at night anyways? Kittys should never be outside at night. It's just as dangerous for them as it is for humans.


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## BabyKitty (Jan 14, 2005)

*spacemonkey*

I love the enclosures for my cat to be outside. Especially the hammock looking one. My boyfriend said that its like teasing a cat like haha your outside but your really not. I also like the stroller for a cat but I dont want to look like a crazy person ya know?!?! Any ideas on that one everyone? Dont you think that if you saw someone doing that and you didnt own a cat you would be like WEIRRRDOO??!


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## cmaijer (Jul 28, 2003)

My cats are typically indoors. However, we always let our two oldest out in the fenced in backyard during the day when we were at home. They got their bit of the outdoors, but were confined in our yard. Our youngest is a bit different. We take her to the lake and she has the freedom during the day of going into the woods and exploring. She has been taught to come when we call her name and shake her kitty treat container. She loves it so much, I would never take that freedom away from her. On the flip side, I wouldn't want her roamy in the woods at night.


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## opokki (May 5, 2003)

All mine are indoors only with the exception of my oldest who only gets to go outdoors on a harness. I live in the city on a main road...I would never dream of allowing him to roam. The other 6 cats don't have any interest in going outside...not even the ones that lived outdoors for months after they were dumped on a farm or the feral that I took in 5 months ago. All of them seem quite happy inside. 
My previous next door neighbor used to let her cats outdoors. I swear she had gone through at least 3 orange cats during the 2yrs she lived there. She'd lose one and just got get another. I was so happy when she moved because these cats also liked to urinate on my front porch, driveway and in my backyard. :x


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## vanillasugar (Nov 11, 2004)

All the cats I've ever owned, have been former strays, that became strictly indoor cats. They've lived the outdoor life, and I don't think it would have been responsable for us to continue to let them roam. 

Boots was having a pretty good time of it, infact he was probably the healthiest looking cat I've ever seen outside. We found him at our cottage one summer where there was very little risk for him from cars etc, and the only existing risk was other wildlife, which believe me, on a fight between him and a fox or something, i'd bet on him. He was (and still is, but not as much) a HUGE and muscular cat. But when we went home at the end of the summer, he came with us, and an indoor cat he became and shall forever be. He wanted out for MONTHS crying and putting up the BIGGEST fuss. You had to stick your foot in the door first when coming into the house to make sure he didn't escape. Many people may feel we were being mean to keep him in when he obviously wanted out so badly. But what if he had died? There ALWAYS is a what if hanging over your head when you let a cat live outdoors, and I couldn't bear to live with myself if my animal got killed simply because I couldn't say no to him! We lived near two VERY busy streets, and considering his background with minimal exposure to traffic, it would have been plain stupid for us to assume he was fit to live outside in the city. He did escape a few times, mostly roaming the small orchard that is behind our house, but other than those short escapades, he only goes out on a harness and leash.

Puss was only 7 months old or so when my aunt found him. He lived in her garage for a little while, but when he came to live with us, he was indoors strictly. He as well only goes out on a collar and leash, and frankly, seems scared of everything when he is outside!

Buddy was just a kitten, abandoned in the rain, not old enought to be away from mum, so of course he's indoor now. He shows the signs of being a great hunter, and a "tough little guy", but why would we risk that? We don't live in a safe neighbourhood. Why would Matt bother letting him out, when we know he's perfectly safe and happy inside?

Nya was out on the streets for who knows how long when I stumbled across her that day. She was mangy and malnourshed. Frankly, starving to death. I assume she was a stray, but considering her personality, she could well have been someone's "outdoor-cat" that ran away...and couldn't manage on her own, without the daily feedings most indoor-outdoors recieve. I saved her life. The vet told me she would not have lasted another month out there, and that was just health considerations. In her weakness, something bigger would have probably picked her off first. She's thriving inside. She LOVES it. You could leave all the doors of the house wide open, and she'd walk away from them. The outdoors was not a friendly place for her, and she's smart enough to realise that for herself.

When I see a cat on the street, I don't wonder where it's home is, I first assume it's a stray. If people are letting their cat's out (in the city), they are taking an obvious risk. A risk I feel I'd be stupid and irresponsable to take. Nothing is worth risking the lives of my babies. NOTHING.

Now. If you have a cat (like Boots) who so desperatley wants to feel the breeze and sunshine that he'll do anything to get outside, I don't have anything against those cat enclosures, or leashes and harnesses. I think those are a great compromise, that I wish all people living in urban centers with "outdoor" cats should consider. It's much safer.

I dont have as big a problem with outdoor cats in the country, and I believe I've posted this before. Stiuations like Spikes make perfect sence, and I feel are acceptable examples of responsable pet ownership.

Edit to say: I think this is the longest post I've ever made! Shows how much I have to say on the topic i guess!


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## Payge (May 12, 2004)

Sam was an indoor/outdoor cat. My parents got him when we lived in Canada on 4 acres of land in a tiny little town where you had to drive an hour just to get to the grocery store. We never even had a litterbox for him, he always went outside. We had to have him put to sleep when he was 19 because he had developed anemia because he was infested with fleas. Had Advantage been around I am sure he would have lived at least a few more months(he had started going senile and this, the most gentle cat in the world would attack me for no reason and I would cry, not because he had bitten me and wouldnt let go, but because I knew he was slipping away) 

He also would have lived longer if he had been indoors only because then he would never have become infested with the fleas. After that my parents got a cat they still have, Casper, a purebred Himalayan who is strictly indoors.


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## chrisell (Jan 21, 2005)

vanillasugar - how was the transition from outdoor to indoor cat for you? We're transitioning Dory to be an indoor cat and it breaks my heart to see her sitting at the door, pawing the cover I put over the cat flap and mewling.


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## vanillasugar (Nov 11, 2004)

chrisell said:


> vanillasugar - how was the transition from outdoor to indoor cat for you? We're transitioning Dory to be an indoor cat and it breaks my heart to see her sitting at the door, pawing the cover I put over the cat flap and mewling.


Boots was the only one that really gave us any problems. It lasted a few months, but seemed to get better if we took him out on a leash and harness for some supervised "playtime" in the yard  I know it's hard to watch them as they BEG you to go out, but the only way to make a successful transition is to be firm. ONLY let her out if it's with you on a leash. Now Boots only cries in the spring when the weather is getting warm again, and he can see the birds playing  But again, that supervised playtime (In the summer we take him out with his harness and leash almost daily) seems to help a lot.

EDITED TO ADD: Another thing about my cats (at least my parents cats). In the town they live in, it's actually ILLEGAL to have outdoor cats. There are bi-laws in place for both dogs and cats, so that they can NOT roam the streets without being on a leash. I was very happy when this bi-law was put in place, because there were many irresponsable people in my neighbourhood alone, who let their cats roam, and I saw at least 3 of them get killed by cars. It just wasn't fair to the cats. Now my cats wouldn't be outdoors anyways, but I felt the law was good.


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## BabyKitty (Jan 14, 2005)

> Another thing about my cats (at least my parents cats). In the town they live in, it's actually ILLEGAL to have outdoor cats. There are bi-laws in place for both dogs and cats, so that they can NOT roam the streets without being on a leash. I was very happy when this bi-law was put in place, because there were many irresponsable people in my neighbourhood alone, who let their cats roam, and I saw at least 3 of them get killed by cars. It just wasn't fair to the cats. Now my cats wouldn't be outdoors anyways, but I felt the law was good.


That makes me very happy!


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## Spuzzi (Jan 8, 2005)

my semi cat is outside because she is FERAL.  If I could I would let her in, but I'm scared that my dad will get asthma from her.


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## johnrmason (Oct 13, 2003)

Clark was an indoor outdoor cat. He loved to hunt and would bring me back live gophers, rats and whatever else he could catch. I am now in a RV so my next cat will be indoor or outside only with me, on a leash. Several folks around here have lost cats who got out to coyotes. I saw a cat walking down the road on a leash and harness so I know it can be done. John


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