# Litter box help! Desperate!



## talashira (Feb 23, 2010)

Howdy, all. 

I recently moved from a large-ish apartment to a single, small, rented bedroom in someone's house. The landlord let me bring my two cats with me, provided I keep their litter box in my room.

I've had them here with me for less than a week, and the smell has already gotten to me so much that I'm considering giving them up. Nothing I try works. Here's what I've been doing:

- I bought a $100 self-scooping litter box. It does its job when I'm out of the house, but with two very large cats, it's not usually enough, so I scoop a couple of times a day too to be sure to get whatever it misses.
- I clean out the collection tray from said litter box once a day.
- I use Arm & Hammer Multi-Cat litter, which I use to refill the box once a day after scoopings.
- I sprinkle the bottom of the litter tray with Arm & Hammer Odor Control baking soda. I also sprinkle it on top of the litter itself a few times a day.
- I feed the cats only dry food -- some kind of indoor cat formula. I don't time their meals; they have a bowl always full of food to eat from at any time they wish. I've tried different foods, but this is actually the best I've found; the others I've tried make them smell worse.

I keep the window open constantly and spray the room with Febreze, but all that ends up doing is making the place cold and smelling like perfumed cat poo. I really don't know what to do! I can't take the fact that my only private place in the world smells like feces, all the time. If it isn't positively reeking from fresh droppings, the air is still heavy with the smell of slightly deodorized feces. It's so bad that it wakes me up at night. I don't want to give my cats up -- I've had them for five years, since they were kittens -- but I can't live like this.

Help!


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

Everclean litter...expensive, but the best stuff I've ever used. 

A high quality wet food diet will reduce the amount of waste and improve the stool smell...Wellness, EVO, Natural Balance etc. A raw diet will improve it even more. 

You can also find natural food additives that will help reduce odor. Digestive enzymes and probiotics should help. Or check out the gastro products on this site, I'm sure some of them will help with odor:

http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/


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## hoofmaiden (Sep 28, 2009)

(1) IMO the automatic boxes are a huge waste of money. They do NOT get every little bit, they break up clumps and leave the dregs there to fester, etc. I recommend getting a plain, LARGE, uncovered box, like the Biddy Cat box:

http://www.biddycat.com/

(2) Use clumping litter -- I prefer Dr. Elsey's ultra: http://www.preciouscat.com/precious-ultra-p-2.html
(Yeah, shown in the pic w/ an auto box, but still don't use one!!!)

(3) Be sure to scoop your box twice a day. Keep a container full of cat litter, a scoop, baggies in which to put the waste, and a whisk broom right near the box to make it easy on yourself.

(5) DO NOT USE LINERS. They just make the box smell b/c you cannot get EVERY little piece of soaked clump out.

(6) Dry cat food is not only not good for cats (see the sticky at the top of the Health and Nutrition forum for all the reasons why), but, being high in carbs, it means MORE poops and SMELLIER poops. As carnivores, cats are supposed to get a LOT out of every bite of their food and should have infrequent, almost scentless poops. My raw-fed cats poop on average once every TWO DAYS and these poops are small and smell-free b/c they contain very little waste material. If you at least switch to a grain-free canned food, such as EVO 95% meat formulas, and feed 2 meals a day, you will find that your cats produce less waste and that it smells less.


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## talashira (Feb 23, 2010)

Thanks for the suggestions, you two!

Do you have any recommendations on how much wet/raw food to feed a 25-pound cat? He's a Maine ****, and that weight is actually healthy for his size. I don't want to feed him too little. Should he have 3 meals instead of the 2 I'll give my more normal-sized cat?


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## hoofmaiden (Sep 28, 2009)

I don't believe a 25# cat is at a healthy weight--sorry. IMO many Maine Coons and Ragdolls are grossly overweight. 18# is a HUGE cat and I've really never seen an 18# MC I didn't think was on the hefty side. I very much bet your kitty needs to lose weight.

Twice a day is plenty often for an adult cat. I'll let others address how much, as I feed raw and no longer have any idea about how far canned goes. But IMO you need to help your cat lose weight. You should be able to feel bones, including ribs.


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## talashira (Feb 23, 2010)

I'd be concerned if I heard "25 pounds" on a forum, too, but he was _just_ at the vet this past Thursday, who confirmed that his weight is healthy for his size. He's magnificently large in basic structure, even for a Maine ****.

I'll keep reading up and maybe talk to said vet about feeding frequency.


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## hoofmaiden (Sep 28, 2009)

I know a lot of fat cats that the vet says are "just fine." Coated cats can be hard to tell by looking, but you need to give him a good feel.

And don't bother asking the vet about food. They really know very little about nutrition!


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## Niki24 (Jan 4, 2010)

I have tried many ways to make "the litter chore" easier and less smelly. I have purchased self cleaning, etc... and after all the time and money spent I have resorted back to the basic litter box....its just easier. However, I recently purchased the LitterLocker. This is awesome... You scoop out your standard litter box once / twice a day and dispose of it into the litter locker, twist the wheel and odor and litter is gone. Empty the bags once a week, the instructions say it can go up to two weeks but I don't let it go that long. The plastic bags apparently are the trick to this and eliminate the oder. Also, this product reduces the daily trips to the outside trash bin...I also use the Arm&Hammer odor neutralizer and have pretty good success with it 

The LitterLocker is also pretty reasonable...$30 at PetSmart, however you get a much better deal on the refill bags through Amazon. Hope this helps.

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.j ... 1&lmdn=Cat


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

I use Arm 'n Hammer regular, with no problem. Don't buy multi-cat litter. It's terrible, smelly and gooey. yech!


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## hoofmaiden (Sep 28, 2009)

Jeanie said:


> I use Arm 'n Hammer regular, with no problem. Don't buy multi-cat litter. It's terrible, smelly and gooey. yech!


Not Dr. Elsey's. Have you tried that?


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## talashira (Feb 23, 2010)

The LitterLocker sounds like an okay suggestion, except that I really have no problem taking the scoopings to the trash every day. It's just one trip down and up the stairs. Either way, though, despite my frequent scooping (sometimes 3 or 4 times per day), the odor just doesn't dissipate well enough. And it's especially bad at 1:00 in the morning, when it overpowers my body's desire to sleep and wakes me up, but I'm too tired to get out of bed and scoop, so I drift in and out of a doze, the smell waking me up every few minutes.

I'll also try using some of the high-quality litter. I don't care if it's more expensive; I'll do anything, at this point!

I think the best suggestion for now is to switch them over to a raw diet, or at least a raw-_er_ diet. I've already begun the regiment of restricting their feeding to specific times of the day, rather than letting them free-feed. I'll head to the pet store tonight and pick up some canned food -- some of the high-quality stuff to get them started transitioning. I know they'll take to it; I just dunno how they'll take to actual raw meat. We'll see! Any suggestions on brand, aside from EVO, which has already been mentioned?

I'll keep folks posted on how this goes. I'm sure it'll be a slow process, but nevertheless, if it ends up helping me, I'm sure it'll help others. And if anyone has any more suggestions, please, keep 'em comin'!


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## hoofmaiden (Sep 28, 2009)

talashira said:


> I think the best suggestion for now is to switch them over to a raw diet, or at least a raw-_er_ diet. I've already begun the regiment of restricting their feeding to specific times of the day, rather than letting them free-feed. I'll head to the pet store tonight and pick up some canned food -- some of the high-quality stuff to get them started transitioning. I know they'll take to it; I just dunno how they'll take to actual raw meat. We'll see! Any suggestions on brand, aside from EVO, which has already been mentioned?


The best plan is usually to first get the cat used to eating canned food on a meal schedule (fed twice a day). Once the cat gets that, you can switch to raw if you wish to -- when you get to that point, come on over to the raw forum (sub-forum of the health and nutrition forum) and we'll help you get started.

IMO EVO 95% meat formulae are the best canned foods (there is also regular EVO -- the 95% meat ones are better). Other possibilities include Wellness CORE and I'm sure others will have suggestions as well. You want plain old MEAT to be the first few ingredients on the label (chicken, beef, etc -- not chicken MEAL) and for the food to contain no grains and as few other carbs as possible. 

Ingredients in EVO 95% beef: Beef, Beef broth, tricalcium phosphate, natural flavors, carrageenan, minerals, potassium chloride, guar gum, vitamins, choline chloride, herring oil, salt, etc.

http://www.evopet.com/products/default.asp?id=1664


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## talashira (Feb 23, 2010)

Is it one can per cat per meal (so, with 2 cats, I'll use up 4 cans per day)?


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

General starting point is 5.5-6 oz per cat per day and monitor their weight. I believe EVO 95% comes in 12-13 oz cans, so if they will eat it after being refrigerated (some cats won't) that would be more cost effective. You can add a little warm water to bring it closer to room temp.


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## talashira (Feb 23, 2010)

Wow. One can will feed both cats for an entire day? That's good news....

I'm sure I can run the bowl under hot water for their afternoon/evening meal after having refrigerated it. I lucked out and got un-picky cats.


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

Oh wait a minute...I forgot that you have the 'big boy'. You can start with the amount I mentioned, but if he starts losing weight (more than a half pound per month) then you need to up his food. It's natural for a cat that's has been on all dry to lose some weight when transitioned to wet and it's not a bad thing for most cats. I have a 19 lb male (who's weight is fine BTW) and he's eating about 6 oz per day, I joke that he got my metabolism. 

Cats are more satisfied with high quality wet food because of the protein and fat so they eat less. Carbs cause cravings for more carbs just like with humans, that's why many dry food, free fed cats are overweight. The water in the wet food also helps fill them up.


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## talashira (Feb 23, 2010)

Okay. I'll keep an eye on him. He could stand to shed a couple of pounds, I would guess, but no more, and not too fast, of course.

One more question for now: if they take to the canned stuff right off the bat, should I feel okay stopping the kibble immediately, or should I still force a slower transition?


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## hoofmaiden (Sep 28, 2009)

The whole "slow transition" thing is largely a construct of the pet food industry, to make you think that changing foods is time-consuming.  If they'll eat the canned, go right to the canned. If they will not, try mixing it 50/50 and gradually reducing the kibble while increasing the canned. The harder transition is actually from free-feeding to meal feeding. They have to learn to eat their food up when it's offered.


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## talashira (Feb 23, 2010)

Great! Knowing my kids, they'll inhale the wet stuff. 

Just so I'm prepared... do I have a lot of complaining to look forward to? I remember that the cats I had as a kid would become downright obnoxious around mealtimes.


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## hoofmaiden (Sep 28, 2009)

I recommend NEVER feeding as soon as you get up or get home. I feed my cats their brekky at least an hour after I get up. This keeps them from thinking that waking me up = getting fed. I feed around 7 a.m. and 7-8 p.m. so they are nice and full before bedtime.


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## talashira (Feb 23, 2010)

So I went to a gourmet pet food store yesterday to find EVO 95%, and the owner took me under his wing as I looked around for the best foods/nutrients with which to transition the cats to a raw diet.

I asked him if he had the EVO 95%, and he said no, then asked me why I wanted to switch my cats to it. I told him that I'd heard about it here, that it was the best thing for cats for the transition phase. He looked unhappy with that information, then gave me his two cents:

"High-quality kbble's actually okay for cats. There's nothing wrong with it, except for the excess that the cats don't process; it's actually packed with nutrients that the cats need, and it keeps their teeth clean. EVO, on the other hand... well... if your cats have been on kibble their whole lives, why switch them now?"

"So you don't agree with the concept of the raw diet?" I asked him.

"Raw diet is the best thing in the world for cats," he said fervently. "The absolute, 100% best thing you can do for them."

I gave him a confused look. "Then... why shouldn't I feed them EVO?" I asked.

He explained. "When EVO says that their food is made up of 95% meat, they're not lying. The problem is that much of that meat is _cooked_. Once meat is cooked, it loses many of its most important nutrients -- like how cooked broccoli is way less nutritious than raw broccoli. You can feed your cats kibble, or you can feed them raw meat... but I don't recommend anything canned, unless you need to help your cat gain weight."

He took me over to a freezer and took out a package of raw chicken medallions that had been mixed with crushed vegetables. He said, "These are the best thing to transition the cats to a raw diet. Take a half of one medallion, defrost it, mash it up, and mix it with the cats' kibble once a day until they're used to it. Then slowly move them to only the medallions."

He's been doing this for ten years and works with multiple vets, so I was inclined to take his advice. I bought the medallions and followed his instructions: I cut one in half, ran it under warm water to defrost it, then mashed it up and mixed it in with their kibble with my fingers.

The cats attacked it like they hadn't eaten in days (which probably had more to do with the fact that I'm not letting them free-feed anymore), and they lapped every bit up!

I have a feeling that this transition is going to be way easier than I'd feared. (And the smell is already bearable, just based on them eating less! Hooray!)


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## hoofmaiden (Sep 28, 2009)

Hey, I never said Evo was the way to go if you really DO want to go raw. Most cats don't need a transition period. However--and forgive me if I'm wrong--it didn't seem that you had done much research on raw, so I figured YOU needed a transition period. 

The medallions, however, are really not a lot better than canned. They contain raw meat, yes, but ground up (like canned food) and usually TONS of veggies (useless to cats). 

I recommend that if you're serious about going raw you come over to the raw forum (sub-forum of the Health and nutrition forum) and post there. We'll help you. You're spending a TON more on those medallions than you will on REAL raw food, and not really benefitting your kitties.


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## talashira (Feb 23, 2010)

Okay. I'll switch over to the other forum now.

For the record, he wasn't suggesting I keep up the medallion routine indefinitely; he recommended it only as a transition period to actual, raw meat. He sold me their smallest bag, and I think it'll be fine to keep giving to the cats until I feel more secure giving them real, raw meat.


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## talashira (Feb 23, 2010)

Just wanted to let you all know that switching them to the raw diet worked like a charm! Friends come over and comment that they can't smell a thing, despite the litter box being shut up in the closet in my tiny little room.

I really appreciate all the feedback!


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