# Should I get this new cat (Turkish Angora) that is a biter?



## missy (Apr 23, 2010)

I am looking at a one-year-old male Turkish Angora to be a new friend for my 10-year-old spayed female. I recently lost my almost 18-year-old cat. This weekend I met a possible new friend for my one remaining cat. The problem is he bites. He is currently whole but would be neutered. He is a show cat. I mention this because unfortunately he has not had a lot of attention paid to him over the past year. Most people who have show cats treat them as their pets first and show cats second. In this case the owner treated him as a show cat and only a show cat. He is a little over a year old. He is a beautiful cat and is a real sweetie but there are some problems. 

His current owner got him at the age of five months. She basically really never kept him as a pet. She only really kept him to show him. She works a lot of hours a week, is hardly ever home, and keeps him in a cattery area with another whole male and three spayed female cats, but two of the female cats were much older (around 13 or so) and one was 4 but was cranky and doesn't like to play. So he has had no cats to play with. And the owner does not let him in the house. He stays in a special area. The only time he sees her is when she is in there changing litter boxes or feeding them, or on the weekends in the hotel room when he stays with his owner when they go to cat shows,

The result is a one-year-old cat who is sexually frustrated, who has never been mated and who has developed a biting problem. I met him this weekend at a cat show for the first time. While I helped his owner groom him, he bit me on the thumb and drew blood. When I put him in one of the cages in a ring, he bit me. When I stuck my hand in his cage to pet him, he did not want me to do that so he gave me a little nip to say, "Stop that." The other times he did not draw blood, but it did hurt. It took me aback. When the owner took him out of his cage, at the request of the judge, because he had won an important judging event, he bit his owner. (!) Yes there were other whole male and female cats around but I repeat, he bit his owner so hard he drew blood. She had to go in the bathroom and wash her hand. 

I understand if there are other whole males and females around and if he got excited and maybe something happens one time with him in a show hall, but this seems to happen all the time with him. She seemed to accept it as a common occurrence as though it happens often. She was not happy about it. And he bit her in the hotel room, and me also, and used his bite to communicate his wishes, which I did not like to see. When I reached into his cage to pet him early in the morning and I barely had even touched him -- only one touch to his head and he reached out and chomped on my finger hard -- that was his way of telling me not to pet him. It concerns me that he has learned this as his method of communicating "no" to people.

My question is, will this behavior calm down after he is neutered, and after he gets more attention and is in a more normal household? Or is it possible that he will always be a biter? I feel like I am taking a gamble here and this cat is not inexpensive. 

I have done plenty of rescue work to make up for my interest for my purebred cats as an FYI.

Thank you for your time.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

Wow. I cannot help but think that when his frustrations and lack of mental and physical stimulation have been changed by neutering and being in a loving home that he would turn into an amazing pet.

I tame, socialize and foster feral, semi-feral and poorly-socialized kittens/cats for public adoption. Most of the adult ferals remain with us as our personal cats and we both feel they have all turned into amazing housepets. I would not hesitate to give this TA a home as I know I would be able to help him alter his behavior in a loving home environment. It seems with your work with rescues that you would also have these same skills and be able to help him.

I'd do it and I don't think you'll regret it if you do it. _Also, if she has another home lined up for him and that person can provide the same home environment and attention you could ... then even if you pass on him, it seems like he'd still be getting out of the frying pan and not landing in the fire._
I kinda hope you decide to take him.
heidi =^..^=


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## missy (Apr 23, 2010)

Thank you for your encouragement. Can you offer any advice on how to get him to stop chomping? He really needs almost no excuse whatsoever to chomp. *chomp* Hi there! *chomp* How *chomp* are you *chomp* doing? *chomp* ? 

Depending on his mood, of course. Highly variable. Unpredictable. But he runs the show. He *demands* attention, probably because he never gets any. But it has to be on his terms, and on his terms only. And he doesn't seem to really pour any of his inner affection into it. Almost as though he is afraid to really give of himself. As though he is afraid of getting hurt. So he demands attention, but it is almost this superficial attention he gives back in return, in addition to nose chomping and chin chomping and finger and toe chomping and wrist chomping and bracelet chomping. 

Then there are all the other types of chomping. I could categorize them all, but I don't know them all yet. 

1. Chomping based on sexual frustration: Seeing a whole male or female and taking it out on a human
2. Chomping which means a "Stop doing that!" message to the human
3. Chomping which means a "Keep doing that!" message to the human
4. Chomping which means a "I love you!" message to the human
etc.
?
!


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

Welcome!

I think if I was getting a friend for my 10-year old female, it wouldn't be a cat with issues like this one. And I'd be worried about the owner trying to rush me on the sale.

He sounds beautiful, but I think you could find a better match for your cat. And if there's someone willing to take him on with his problems, I'd let her.


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## missy (Apr 23, 2010)

Thank you, marie73, for your input and for the welcome!

I agree, I have major issues about the owner rushing me on the sale. 

Apparently there is another lady who wants him very badly and will pay to have him shipped to her in two days and cannot wait until even this Thursday but must have him Tuesday. I have asked to have until Wednesday to make up my mind. This is after she and I have been speaking about him for about three weeks. But we made plans and agreed to meet in person. We made hotel arrangements and agreed to meet at the same hotel so I could meet him. Definite plans were made for this weekend. 

I feel I should be given more consideration given the amount of time she and I have been speaking and planning for this. I agree I have been unsure of what to do, since I only lost my cat on April 5. But things got more murky this weekend when I learned he was a biter. Now I would like to speak both with my vet and a breeder whom I know and trust. I was only told Friday night when I arrived at the hotel of this other woman who apparently only had decided on Friday that she wanted to buy him.

I have never been rushed like this by an owner to make a decision. 

She has agreed also to let me have a trial period with him, but the whole thing feels very tense. 

In the past, working with owners and/or breeders has felt very comfortable for me and not like this.


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

I'm so sorry for your loss. 

You know your 10-year old better than anyone, so I'm sure you'll make the right choice for your household. But if I was rehoming a pet, I'd pick the best person for my cat, I wouldn't play two people off each other like she seems to be, if she's even telling the truth and not lying to rush you.


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## missy (Apr 23, 2010)

Thank you very much for your condolences. I miss him greatly. 

If we get through this, my 10-year-old and I may just have a few months of just the two of us. 

I think this is about financial hardship and the fear of losing a sale. I do believe this other potential buyer exists. It is harder to sell a one-year-old male than it is to sell a kitten. And she has a fear that if she says no to this woman, and then if I do not take him, that she has lost two potential buyers. So I can see her point. 

But I don't like the style in which this was done, not at all. I don't condone it. I wonder how much of this kind of unhealthy energy her cats pick up on.


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

I know what you mean. Part of me would want to take the poor kitty just to get him away from HER. 

Someone contacted me about a little Birman boy (2 years old) after I lost Cinderella. But I just didn't know how my girls would react to a male cat. He ended up getting a great new home.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

missy said:


> I have never been rushed like this by an owner to make a decision.
> In the past, working with owners and/or breeders has felt very comfortable for me and not like this.


I suppose these two sentences would also make me pause for consideration...you gotta do what feels right to you.


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## missy (Apr 23, 2010)

Heidi n Q said:


> missy said:
> 
> 
> > I have never been rushed like this by an owner to make a decision.
> ...


Yes, especially since I have usually kept up with the owners and/or breeders of my cats for life! I just spoke with one of my Siamese's breeders (I got her in 1990; she died in 2008 at the age of 18; she was a chocolate point Siamese; the sweetest girl!) last weekend. She told me to go with your heart, not your head, when picking a cat. 

She was like my kitty's grandmother! She feels like family, still.


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## missy (Apr 23, 2010)

I still wonder how one is supposed to cure a cat of biting, and if neutering is supposed to entirely cure a cat described as this cat has been described. Has he learned to get his way by biting and therefore would his habit be harder to break?

Has anyone had experience curing cats of a biting habit and if so how did you do it?

I know this is several questions in one post, but if anyone has answers to even one of them, I would be grateful. Thank you.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

I admit I haven't had to deal with a biter. To me, this cat seems to have been taught to bite and with my work with ferals, slowly helping them to trust and socialize with people until they feel relaxed, comfortable and confident ... _I have to believe someone who was aware of the problem and could remain calm, persistent and consistent about their handling of the cat and set realistic goals_ ... could help re-program him. If he has become very set in this behavior there is a chance it may always remain, probably not at the intense level it is at now, but I suspect it would decrease and become a less-used behavior when he finally realizes he doesn't have to do that to get the attention he wants or doesn't want.


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## hoofmaiden (Sep 28, 2009)

marie73 said:


> You know your 10-year old better than anyone, so I'm sure you'll make the right choice for your household. But if I was rehoming a pet, I'd pick the best person for my cat, I wouldn't play two people off each other like she seems to be, if she's even telling the truth and not lying to rush you.


I too would be most concerned about how the 2 cats will get along, and IMO an unneutered male used for breeding is NOT going to have great intercat skills. He hasn't been allowed to interact w/ other cats much, so he may not know how to. Additionally, it will be at least a month before he stops feeling and acting like an unneutered male, and in the meantime he might well alienate your female permanently. 

There are much better choices for your girl, IMO -- a neutered male known to be VERY good with other cats would be a great choice (a good no-kill shelter will have this kind of info on their kitties).

My own Lincoln used to be a biter, so if you DO get him I can offer suggestions on that front. I'm just not sure this is the best choice for your own kitty.


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## missy (Apr 23, 2010)

hoofmaiden said:


> marie73 said:
> 
> 
> > You know your 10-year old better than anyone, so I'm sure you'll make the right choice for your household. But if I was rehoming a pet, I'd pick the best person for my cat, I wouldn't play two people off each other like she seems to be, if she's even telling the truth and not lying to rush you.
> ...


Sorry; I should have been more clear.

This cat has never been used for breeding.

He is only one year old. Has never been bred.

He is being kept uncaged with the following other cats, roaming free, in a large area which has both an upstairs and a downstairs area. He is being kept with another whole male, and three spayed females. Two of the spayed females are around 13 years of age. One of the spayed females is around 4 years of age. She, although she is young, is a rescue cat and does not want to play with him. She is rather cross and just hisses at him. He respects the hisses and leaves her alone. So he does not have anyone to play with. So although he has other cats around, I think this leaves him feeling a bit frustrated because no one will play with him. 

I am hoping that my girl would want to play with him at times, after she gets to know him. She may not play with him as much as someone his own age would, but she still likes to play. The introduction process could take awhile, though -- I don't really know how long to expect it to take. They would not be introduced until at least two weeks after he was neutered.

Also, even though he is whole, he has never hissed at, nor fought with, any of the other cats in the household. He has never gotten into any cat fights with any of the other cats in the household or at cat shows. He has never swatted at or shown any type of aggression toward any of the other cats. If one of the older 13-year-old cats hisses at him to say, "Back off," he respects that and leaves her alone.

Also, to be doubly clear, he would not even set foot into my house until over a month after he had been neutered. So there would be plenty of time for the hormones to clear. And then he would be in a room behind closed doors. So she would smell him as a neutered male, and behind a closed door.


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## hoofmaiden (Sep 28, 2009)

OK. That sounds a little better. 

Here's my advice: Go on and get him AS LONG AS you are willing to love him and stick with him EVEN IF he never really comes around. He probably will, but it is possible he will never be a really pettable cat, and those kitties need love, too.

When I got Lincoln, he was 5 and a known biter. I wanted a cat who would get along w/ my resident cat (Ebony, now at the Bridge), who had just lost her companion. The shelter tentatively suggested Lincoln, telling me he had a biting problem. It's a no-kill shelter and he had been there more than a year, during which the shelter had tried valium and depo-provera to try to alleviate the biting problem, without success. He was declawed in front (probably at least part of the reason for his biting problem) and had been neutered for at least 3 years, when his former owners (who dumped him at the shelter b/c of the biting) took him in off the street.

I spent the first year almost NEVER touching him. It isn't easy, but IMO it's necessary. You have to make the cat WANT YOU, not feel as if you're always molesting him. I never reached out to him. If he came to me and seemed receptive, I petted him once or twice on the head, from behind, and then STOPPED. Stopping is the important part. DO NOT provoke the bite!!! Everyone wants to pet that ONE MORE TIME and then they get nailed. I also told guests NEVER to touch him, period, no matter what.

Gradually he started seeking out my lap. He would cuddle up and then I would NOT TOUCH HIM. Again, not easy.  But I wanted him to know that whatever had happened before (people yelling at him or swatting him b/c he bit) would not happen with me. 

I did get bitten several times over the first few years -- at first if I so much as reached for something on the coffee table w/ him within a few feet of me, he would launch, bite and RUN. I never, ever punished him. I just bit my lip and tried not to react.

By the time he was with me for 1 year he was lap-sitting and coming to me asking for petting (which I did 1-2 times on the head only--avoid the body b/c if they are hyperaesthetic that's where they will react). By the time he was w/ me for 3 years I could pet him (1-2 times) anywhere, and he was head-butting me. He's now been w/ me 7 years and he is affectionate, solicits petting, sleeps on my pillow, and can be petted repeatedly. I never 100% let my guard down, though. I have learned to watch his body language carefully, and the slightest tail twitch will cause me to stop. And IMO THAT IS THE KEY: The cat MUST know that he can get you to stop by some means OTHER than nailing you. If you don't watch those signs you will keep going and he will be forced to bite. Become as sensitive as a cat to his body language and you will know. Most of all, don't rush things. It takes TIME to fix this problem, and every cat's timeline is different.

And, of course, for the cat-cat intro, do a very slow (several weeks) intro using a separate room for the new cat, babygates in the doorway, etc. One method is described here in my Jonah Intro thread. You cannot go too slowly w/ these things!

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=62659&hilit=jonah+introduction


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

hoofmaiden said:


> I have learned to watch his body language carefully, and the slightest tail twitch will cause me to stop. And IMO THAT IS THE KEY: The cat MUST know that he can get you to stop by some means OTHER than nailing you. If you don't watch those signs you will keep going and he will be forced to bite. Become as sensitive as a cat to his body language and you will know. Most of all, don't rush things. It takes TIME to fix this problem, and every cat's timeline is different.


I work with ferals, and I found this paragraph to be very profound and relative to my socializing efforts. It explains something I've been doing in such a wonderful way. I love it.


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## hoofmaiden (Sep 28, 2009)

Thanks, Heidi! I think it's hard for people to let go of THEIR needs, but when dealing w/ abused cats, hyperaesthetic cats, feral cats, etc. you MUST let go of your own needs and if you cannot, then don't get involved w/ this kind of cat. Period. I'm DELIGHTED that Lincoln is now, for all intents and purposes, a pretty 'normal' cat -- I honestly did not expect that at all. I expected him to always be a cat I could not pet, and that my satisfaction would come from observing him, loving him from a distance, and knowing that w/out me he probably never would have gotten out of that shelter. And I think that part of what made it possible for him to come so far was PRECISELY my lack of expectations--I expected NOTHING so I didn't force myself on him. 

When my Ebony passed away (only one year into my time w/ Linc) and I was looking for a companion for Lincoln, I told the shelter again that I wanted a kitty who would be good w/ other cats, and I was DELIGHTED that their #1 rec turned out to be a cuddler, too (Calvin). It helps to leave alone the biting kitty if you have one who likes to be held like a baby and kissed on the head, LOL.


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