# Catching two ferals on top of a roof, please advice!



## Lenkolas

I have read every single website about catching feral cats and setting traps etc etc.
So now that I'm decided, I just want to tell you about my plan and maybe you can share some advice with me. I will appreciate it so much, honestly. 
And thank you for reading such a long post!

This is the story: We rescued Chiquis, our 5 months old baby from my boyfriend's office. He fell from the tin roof I'll show you later. He was in pretty bad shape so we had no choice but to separate the little 1 month old baby from his mom (from now on "Mom Cat") and take him to the vet to check if he had suffered from the fall and to cure his eyes (he had an awful corneal ulcer). We adopted him and now he's a healthy, beautiful kitty!

Mom Cat and one kitten (brother/sister of Chiquis) continued roaming the office. We began to feed Mom Cat and brother/sister cat from that very same day (Royal Canin dry food). 5 months after, they have gotten used to our voices and the everyday office sounds and stuff, but they refuse to get down that awful tin roof that actually belongs to the property located right at the back of the office's patio. We have to settle with them eating and drinking on top of the roof. They run away when we get too close.

So, I have decided to catch them. Mom Cat is going to get pregnant again if I don't, and if brother/sister cat is indeed a "sister", she will get pregnant too (or get other homeless kitties pregnant if he's a he). I'm not expecting to find a home for them, but at least I can take them to the vet to address any health issues and get them spayed. 

I don't think I can set a "drop" trap on that roof. A cage with a sliding door (that I can close once they both are in there) is the idea I have. I can't use an automatic one either, 'cause if one of them steps on it and the other one is outside, I guess that's it for the catching operation.

And of course, I'm gonna have to build the trap. I can't buy anything like it here in Chile. I'm pretty determined to do whatever it takes to give them a better life. It just keeps me from sleeping at night. I think I owe that to Chiquis.

Any ideas, comments, am I doing something wrong?

Here are the pics:

My baby Chiquis 










With Don Gatito my other baby 










Office photos:
Mom Cat and brother/sister kitten at the back. 









Bro/sis, it just breaks my heart to see him/her living like that.











Another one of bro/sis, it looks like he/she has been gaining some weight, but not enough.









Thank you so much everybody! :catsm


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## Heidi n Q

Wow! I wish you much luck! 

First, can you purchase a biggish (like raccoon-size) humane trap and have it shipped to you?
Next, I used a humane trap that I had rigged to NOT close with the trip-plate so I could catch an entire litter of kittens. I had got the cats and kittens used to me being 'nearby' when I fed them so I tied a string to the mechanism of the trap and walked away the 6-9 meters they were comfortable me being near and waited until all were inside, then I tugged the string and had them all captured at once!
Last, good luck!
h =^,,^=

Here is a pic of a do-it-yourself humane trap:
Website: This Humane Trap Can Guard Your Vegetable Patch!









Here is the Havahart website. Havahart® Live Animal Traps, The Trusted Animal Trap Brand For Over 60 Years | Havahart®
I would recommend the large raccoon trap, 32" x 10.5" x 12" so both mother and young cat can easily fit inside and be trapped together.

This is similar to the Hav-a-Hart trap I use:


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## Whaler

it is difficult to tell from the pics, but what is the pitch of the roof? if it isn't to great perhaps you could use suction cups to act as a breaker so that you could set up a drop trap up there and have it still be functional but stay in place once it has dropped?

they are beautiful kitties!


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## Lenkolas

You're right, it isn't too great (the pitch). The suction cups are a GREAT idea. I'm just between that and the pivot/rod mechanism (Thank's Heidi!!) that I believe i can build myself. I'm just worried about the moment I have to "close the door" behind them, 'cause I know if that fails they'll be spooked and never come back. So it has to be perfect.

I'll give it a thought this weekend, and keep you posted , thank you so much for your ideas!


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## Whaler

if you try the pivot/rod set up and it doesn't work don't fret, given a little time they will return. when i was worried about having a trap fail and losing the chance to get some of my feral cats the best bit of wisdom i got was from my local animal control officer. she told me not to worry because when it comes to food they are stupid 

one more thing if you go for the drop trap, i don't know if you have used one before but if you haven't make sure to have someone with you. once they are in there they will start thrashing around, so make sure on of you stabilizes the trap so that they don't' escape.
good luck and keep us posted!


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## Heidi n Q

Lenkolas said:


> ... the pivot/rod mechanism (Thank's Heidi!!) that I believe i can build myself.
> I'm just worried about the moment I have to "close the door" behind them, 'cause I know if that fails they'll be spooked and never come back. So it has to be perfect.


Whaler makes a *very* good point about a cat thrashing around inside. You want to make sure a thrashing cat cannot tip the trap over, slide the drop door up or pull on the trip-bar and lift the drop door up.

I believe:
If you make the base w-i-d-e (_like extend bottom past the side walls 4-6" / 10-15cm_) a cat would be unable to tip it over.
If you make the drop-door's slide guides very smooth and the drop door is very heavy, it should close conclusively. 
If you make the trip-bar and its' guides smooth and non-catching it will also help the door drop down. 


But I also see no reason why you couldn't set this up in such a manner that you don't need to use the trip-bar and instead run a light string to you and when you see both cats in the trap you just pull the string and you catch them both. _(...that is what I did with the litter of kittens, I bypassed the trip-plate and sprung it myself by tugging a string. Practice how much force you need to tug the string for the distance you'll be away from the trap...)_

You may also want to design it in such a way that when the trip-bar is triggered and the door drops down, it lifts the trip-bar far enough UP that the cat cannot fish at it and somehow drag it back down to open the door. 
HOWEVER, I also don't see how a cat could pull the trip-bar/twine down to open the door and then have time to scoot to the other end of the trap to escape before the door drops back down. But you don't want a cat to lean on the trip-bar and have their body weight hold the door open (_especially if you are trying to catch both cats at once_) as at least one may escape or spring the trap before the other cat enters.

Another thing you may wish to add is some sort of exterior 'catch' to 'lock' the drop door down and/or use a strong cabinet door magnet clasp to help hold it closed.
One final thing to keep in mind when you design is cats will try to avoid touching things firmly with their bodies, so your trap will need to be narrow-ish in such a manner that the cat *must* brush past the trip-bar with enough force to release it, but not so responsive that it will release when a cat paws at the mesh outside before it attempts to enter the trap to reach the food.

Wow! I'm excited for you and looking forward to what you plan to create!


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## Lenkolas

Wow! Thanks Whaler and Heidi SO much for all your help. You are both absolutely right about the trashing around inside. 

Making the base wide and past the side walls: Definitely, I haven't thought about that. I definitely will.

Sliding door: I'm still thinking about how to make it smooth. 

Locking mechanism after the door closes: I had to get up from my bed last night at 2 am to check more pictures on the internet 'cause the need of finding a safe closing mechanism wouldn't let me sleep! I believe a magnet might not be enough. 

...

I found this website, Raising BackYard Chickens, Build a Chicken Coop, Pictures of Breeds he uses a different trip mechanism. Looks too sophisticated anyway.

Just wanna take some ideas from different types of traps, so I can build one that really works.

This one doesn't look like a "smooth" drop door...









I wonder how this one works, looks pretty dangerous tho











Phewww I'm so sleepy...*thank you so much* for your help! More tomorrow  I hope I can actually have a good night's sleep tonight 8-O


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## Whaler

i agree that both of those look too dangerous, the guillotine door that they both use is too apt to cause injury. the havahart style traps are really the way to go other than a drop trap, for safety if nothing else.


i hope you got some sleep


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## Heidi n Q

Whaler said:


> i agree that both of those look too dangerous, the guillotine door that they both use is too apt to cause injury. the havahart style traps are really the way to go other than a drop trap, for safety if nothing else.


I disagree. 
The reason I disagree, is I *have* a Hav-a-hart trap and that door SLAMS shut with the force of a heavy spring behind it. I believe my Hav-a-hart's spring-loaded door would hurt/injure far more than a gravity-dropped door *unless* the gravity-drop door has a sharp edge and/or is extremely heavy.
IMO, the reason most of these cat-traps have the trip-plate so far into the trap is to allow the cat's entire body and tail to be IN the trap so the door doesn't drop/slam on them. 
...but if one cat is in and one is only half way in when the trip-plate is triggered, the cat at the back is going to be hit with the door coming down on whatever part of the cat is under it at the moment. That was why I rigged my trap to spring when *I* pulled the string, I wanted to make sure all of the kittens were IN and not under the door.


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## Whaler

after reading what you said Heidi i was a bit perplexed. i have only used a couple of traps other than a drop trap and the ones i have used are not actually havahart brand traps, but the same basic idea. they have been loaned (read given) to me by my local aco.

the traps seem very unlikely to injure the cat from it getting hit with the shutting door. albeit the door comes down fast it stops short of contact with the floor. i looked at the manufacturers website and sure enough, the trap "as is" is just as you described. i called up my local aco to ask what is up with the traps, why the different operation? she told me that since when she does trap she is worried about the exact type of injuries that concern you so what she did is make a few modifications to the stock version of the traps. hard to describe the modifications but basically she modified the spring mechanism as well as the door so that were a cats tail to be sticking out it would not get the tail since it does not go all the way down, as well as the door itself is physically lighter and slightly padded so as to greatly reduce the chance of injury should it slam down on one of the cats head. 

it really is a brilliant design, definitely not 100% safe but now that i compared her model with a stock one i see that it certainly is much more risk free. the only drawback is that it does limit the type of animal that it could be used on since the door is not as sturdy as it originally was.

its funny that i thought that this was a regular havahart style trap all along. it really makes me appreciate all the the effort that my local aco puts in.


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## Heidi n Q

Whaler said:


> ... the door comes down fast it stops short of contact with the floor.
> 
> i looked at the manufacturers website and sure enough, the trap "as is" is just as you described. i called up my local aco to ask what is up with the traps, why the different operation? she told me that since when she does trap she is worried about the exact type of injuries that concern you so what she did is make a few modifications to the stock version of the traps.
> 
> hard to describe the modifications but basically she modified the spring mechanism as well as the door so that were a cats tail to be sticking out it would not get the tail since it does not go all the way down, as well as the door itself is physically lighter and slightly padded so as to greatly reduce the chance of injury should it slam down on one of the cats head.


YOU ... are ... AWESOME! 
I am going to have my Husband look at our trap and see if he will modify it so a cat's tail cannot be trapped under the door slamming down, but also not allow a kitty to harm themselves if they struggle to get out. I'll also see if he can modify the tension of the spring.
Thank you for the ideas! I never thought about modifying the trap, though I should have.


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## Whaler

thanks Heidi! i wish the modifications were my idea but like i said, the credit goes to my local aco.

the main modifications are a replacement door made out of padded aluminum mesh and the spring was actually replaced, not altered. my aco was able to have the work done by some of the town employees at the DOT garage so all of the materials and tools were not a problem.

let me know how you make out.


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## Lenkolas

Hey guys  Just to let you know I'm planning "the catch" for next Saturday.

I saw Mom Cat and brother/sister cat yesterday. I think brother/sister is a boy, which would be great. But it seems to me Mom Cat is pregnant. (I'll post pictures later). So that complicates things a little bit more. I'm not sure what to do. I don't think I can leave her caged until she has her babies (can I?) and I would never take her to the vet so they...take the babies out before due time and spay her. The office has a garage where I could leave her inside a cage, (I was planning to do so overnight after the catch, so I could take them next thing in the morning...) but would it be ok if I just have her there for one, two weeks until the kittens come? I don't think so, that's gonna drive her insane. And if she is pregnant and I release her, what's gonna happen with those kitties...? 

Right now I'm just focused on the trapping and taking them to the vet. I'll figure out later what to do if she's indeed pregnant.


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## Vivid Dawn

A few of my thoughts

If the mom is pregnant, I can understand why you would want to avoid an "abortion". However, as you also said, she'd probably go nuts kept in a cage until birthing time. And then what are you going to do with the kittens once they're here?
I know many would disagree with me, but I think it would be easier for you and Mom Cat to trap her as soon as you can and just have her spayed - pregnant or not. Unless you're in one of those places where the vet won't spay pregnant cat anyway... then you'd have to keep her/kittens after all.

If you're worried about not catching them easily, here's a few suggestions:
First, keep up your current routine of feeding and being near with a soft voice.
Put the trap where you feed, and set it up as if you were going to trap. Put the food in there, and leave the trap open without rigging it to spring (if you're going to use an automatic one). I would think even just a couple days would work, but if you have the time for a whole week to get them used to going in there and getting food safely.
Then you're ready to trap. Be warned that while some cats are "stupid" about food (as somebody else mentioned), others are smart. Cynthia refuses to go in the trap even when I have tuna or canned food...Disco (her daughter) has been trapped 3 times, and another cat I got twice. So it depends on each cat - just watch and try to adjust to them.

Good luck with all this!


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## Lenkolas

Thank you so much Vivid...

I'll try and set the trap on Thursday, so they have at least two days to familiarize with it. I'll keep you posted.


Regarding Mom being pregnant...yeah I see your point, and deep down inside......I think you're right. It's the most logical thing to do.

Geez.


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## Heidi n Q

Lenkolas said:


> ... I see your point, and deep down inside......I think you're right. It's the most logical thing to do.
> Geez.


First: atbackatbackatback I know that is a difficult thing to contemplate. 

Keep in mind: 
With feral cats, there will almost *never* be a time that you could catch a female cat and have her not be pregnant. They can become pregnant w/in 3 days of giving birth and spaying a cat who is nursing leaves them at a high risk danger of infection from the kittens' nursing and kneading her incision area ... so unless you could control the environment and keep her away from male cats, you'd be facing this problem no matter when you tried to trap/spay.

A terrible story of a feral who birthed in captivity:
WARNING: Do not read further if you have a weak stomach.
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I loaned, to a woman in the town south of me, my trap to catch feral cats at her work and she had trapped a cat and was taking it right to her vet. The vet was meeting her at the vet office that night to perform the spay/neuter. Turns out it was a girl-kitty and she began to give birth. The vet put her under and did a sort of combo C-section/spay. They birthed the kittens and removed the reproductive organs. Mamma cat refused her kittens at first, but then accepted them. 
She was being cared for in a foster home and appeared to be adjusting ... but after a short time she 'snapped' and cannibalized her litter, _the foster mom found kitt-parts vomited around the bathroom_. Only one kitten survived that night and it was removed from the mom-cat's care and bottle raised while the mamma cat was returned to the work area territory she came from. 

She proved to NOT be a good candidate for taming/socialization so she was returned and at least she was spayed. We do not know if there was something wrong with the litter and I found it difficult to believe that so many kitts would be killed on the same night with 'birth defects' and/or 'cleaning the nest' (_if that many kitts expired on their own in the same night_) were to be the reason. The sole survivor grew up to be a healthy cat and we wondered if the mom-cat's mental state was too unstable to handle captivity and raising kittens.


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## Lenkolas

Wow. :sad:

Thank you Heidi, really. Your story has given me the determination to do what it has to be done.

Also, I have the feeling she can't be socialized. The little one seems more eager to get close to me, but Mom Cat is wild. I can see that in her green wild eyes.

Another concern: When they spay her, can the vet use those absorbable sutures? Because that's the only option I have, or should I keep her confined until I can take her to the vet again so they remove the non-absorbable sutures?

I think I have to consider that because if I have to keep her caged for a few days, I have to set a proper place for her.

I'm calling the vet.....


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## RachandNito

I have seen many "cat abortions". At my spay neuter clinic we'll just go ahead and do it. Many of the people bringing in the cats (lots of barn cats/ferals) request that we just don't tell them whether she was pregnant or not. It's a hard thing to deal with sometimes, but it sort of just a fact of life. Occasionally we get a cat that is pretty much full term and I have seen times that we C-section the kitten and decide to keep it. One of them turned out to be a little flat-faced lynx point persian looking little thing, came from an all black mama, the oddest thing! There are just so many kittens out there, and while I feel that each and every life is precious sometimes there is just nothing you can do. It's best just to get her spayed so that no more kittens can come into the world through her. I support your decision whatever you choose.


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## cushman350

Has anyone seen a minnow cast net? How about laying it over the food and water bowls so they don't get into the net. Attach to the line and wait for them to both be on the net with bowls centered under the net. As they try to access the water and food, the net can be yanked up, the cats pulled right to you and into a crate or whatever, if you can position yourself above and slighty away to give them a sense of distance and false security. This may seem extreme, but you have extreme cicumstances. They will probably become intangled in the net, but you will be there and have control and the net can be cut away once inside the crate. Getting them is the #1 thing now.


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## Lenkolas

More pics of "my" ferals, taken yesterday.

Do you think Mom looks pregnant? I don't have much experience, but it looks very much pregnant to me.























































They are very pretty...I like the little one so much. He has a pretty face, just like his/her brother Chiquis...

Today I went to the office after school and we talk about future steps to be taken. We decided (my boyfriend, his partner and I) that if she's pregnant and the babies are almost due, we will keep her inside the garage and wait for the kittens to come. Then, we will raise them until they're 3 months old, and put them for adoption (not before we can neuter/spay them). 
If she is pregnant and babies are not due soon, and if the vet agrees, we will do what it has to be done, and spay her. So that's how it is.
Also, and because judging by her size we think Mom's pregnancy is very advanced, we decided to move catching day from Saturday to Friday. So if it doesn't work on Friday we still have Saturday...

Maybe I'm getting a little bit obsessed, but I just can't stop thinking about them. I arrive home and I see Chiquis and it just makes me feel so sad that I can't have the ferals here living a happy life. I wake up in the middle of the night with my mind going and going over cages and traps and plans and sliding doors and absorbable sutures and all... I believe you need a lot of...fortitude, a lot of strength of mind to dedicate your life to rescue homeless animals and dealing with bad outcomes and disappointment...

Well, just that. Hopefully I'll have pictures of the trap and some good news soon.

Thank you so much for everything, it really means a lot to me. You know nobody cares/understands what I'm doing aside of my bf and some guys from the office. They think I'm crazy, or just ask me why would I waste so much time/energy/money doing something like that for two homeless cats. So, your support means everything.

And I'm sorry for my bad English! I accept any correction if you want to do so


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## suwanee

Yes, she looks pregnant to me, but I'm several thousand miles away...beautiful gatos.

Your English is fantastic! My Spanish es no bueno....

Good luck, keep us posted with news. No matter what you decide for the kittens, it will be a tough thing for you. We will be here thinking of you and hoping the best for all of you. Sounds like a great boyfriend and partner, too.


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## Whaler

they are so beautiful and yes, she does look pregnant - at least as best as i can tell from the pics.

don't worry about being obsessed about them, that is a great thing. it shows how much you care and regardless if nobody else does care at least they have someone trying to help them live long, happy and healthy lives. i obsess about my colony daily. i am always thinking about how i can help them even more; should i start to work on better houses for them, who will watch out for them if something happens to me, would they prefer specific flavors of food, are some of the many thoughts i have about my feral family.

i will keep my fingers crossed that it goes well for all of you 

i almost forgot, don't worry, your english is perfect.


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## Heidi n Q

I agree that she does look pregnant. 
When I spayed BB this winter, I did keep her in the garage for a week before I released her back outside. I also kept the tomcat (Mr. Gray) in the garage with her, for company. When I spayed/neutered their litter of kittens, I kept BB and Gray in the garage with them, too. I did this because I wanted them to live cohesively together as 'barn cats' and I felt they needed to have NO extended separations that could hinder their cat-cat relationship in sharing the same territory.

Good luck, they both look like beautiful Spotted Tabbies.


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## RachandNito

> I believe you need a lot of...fortitude, a lot of strength of mind to dedicate your life to rescue homeless animals and dealing with bad outcomes and disappointment...


So true, I know this from personal experience. It can really take a lot out of you sometimes, especially if you are experiencing a lot of the sad part of it, but for all the sadness you encounter there is still that glimmer of happiness- every time you save one, every time one gets adopted, the rewarding feeling when the letters arrive with pictures of the animals happy in their forever homes. 

You are doing such a great thing for these cats. Try not to lose sleep over it, with your dedication you will not fail!


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## KittehLuv'n

Were you able to trap them this weekend?
I hope all is going well.


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## Lenkolas

Hi everybody! Sorry I didn't post before, I’ve had a very busy weekend.

We started working on Friday after work. I had to go buy stuff twice 'cause I forgot to buy a hand saw for the pipes. I set my "operation center" in an empty room (well, full of old computers and tools) beside the patio. 

So well: Taking the idea from with website Building A Folding Drop Trap by Lisa A. Pierson, DVMI built the cage/trap using PVC pipes. Here are the pictures:


I bought these elbows that are not actually made of PVC, but were better than the 90 degree elbows. However, they only had 6 on the store so I had to buy regular 90° elbows anyway. Duct tape would do the trick.



















Making the frames:






































Done with the frames










Now the net: a LOT of cable ties. 




































finger injured by cable ties  (forgot the gloves)









Almost done with the netting. I actually got inside the trap and tried to break it, and it resisted. There are no pictures of that of course 










bro/sis making some company, wondering what was going on. Such a cutie.









The little one was with us all the time. I was looking at him on top of the roop and suddenly...were shocked to discover A THIRD FERAL on the roof!! Looks pretty big, like Mom Cat’s age (maybe Dad?) and if I thought that Mom was wild, boy this kitty is savage! He/she run away from us as if the devil was after him. We called him “el salvaje” (the wild one). I was just able to take this bad picture of him. He looks a lot like Chiquis, with long hair.










Once the cage was finished, we decided to put it on top of the roof before it got dark to see if one of the kitties would get inside. Pictures are self-explanatory















































However, Mom did not get inside that day (Friday night). On Saturday morning, I went back to home depot to get wood for the trap ground and the sliding door. Saturday night and the ground was ready, but it was already too late and I was so tired that I had to abort "catching op" on Saturday.
Before we left, I put the cage back on top of the roof to see if they would go in now that the cage had a hard wooden floor, and both Mom and sis/bro got in and ate inside! We were soooo excited!  Mom was a little bit hesitant at first, but lured by the stinky tuna fish she just got in and actually got so confy that she stood there cleaning her paws for a long time. (it was so late at night that I couldn’t take any pictures, I just have my Blackberry for the pics because my camera drowned last week (sad story)).

So, this is my plan: Monday, I’ll go to the office and finish the door mechanism. 
Tuesday: I’ll be free at 5 pm so I can get there a little bit earlier and try to catch them.

Sorry about such a long post! And thank you for watching


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## suwanee

Thanks for the update and all the pictures. Looks like they went right in. Mom hasn't had the kittens yet I hope. That would be awful if she delivers before you can catch her!


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## Lenkolas

Thank you! 

No, she still looks pregnant. Yeah i know what you mean...that's why I'm desperate to go there and catch them. But during the week it gets more complicated -we have to wait for everybody who works at the office to leave (that happens around 6) and since winter is coming it's getting dark earlier...

Tomorrow I'll have the door ready and who knows, maybe on Tuesday I'll have good news. 

I'll go to bed now...zzzzzz......


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## Heidi n Q

AWESOME! _*sends good cat-catching wishes your way*_


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## Lenkolas

Quick update: I was there yesterday and I finished the door mechanism. I had to change my plan a little bit, but the door works anyway and the cage is ready to trap the kitties.

Very late at night, I set the trap on the roof again (with the door opened) and both Mom and little one got in and ate. Mom still looks pregnant.

So today at 6 pm I'll be there to finally catch them. I'm very very excited/nervous. If I catch them early, I'll take them to the vet today. If it's too late at night -which I think it will be 'cause Mom only appears at night- I'll leave them in the garage and go get them early in the morning. That's what makes me nervous. Will they be ok inside the cage all night? Should I stay there with them maybe?

I'm building another cage with the same materials so I can make the trap bigger and leave them inside for the night. 

Hopefully, I'll have some good news tonight. Wish me luck!


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## suwanee

A couple things:

You might only get one chance to trap this pregnant female. The suggestions on ferals say to feed for a week or so before attempted trapping, but I know you don't have this kind of time. If you get the chance to trap one or both, I'd try to get mom and worry about baby later. If she goes in the cage, I say close the door. One freaked out cat at a time is probably enough, right?

How sturdy is your cage? I'm a little worried that you said it is held together with duct tape on the corners, and the fact that it is a homemade cage. I hope I don't offend you, I just know how smart and strong a cat is when trapped - and they can squeeze out through the tiniest of holes. 

Door: have you practiced with it several times so you know how hard you will have to pull the rope, and how fast the door will fall? Does it close quickly and smoothly all the time? Again, they can squeeze out through the tiniest crack. How are you going to secure the front after the door closes? Is there some way to lock it? Take a large sheet to cover the cage as soon as they are caught. They will be calmer when covered.

If they escape either right after trapping or after they are in the garage, do you have a way to re-catch them in the garage? A feral cat is a fighting ball of sharp dangerous parts!

How are you going to keep mom safe and confined for the duration of her pregnancy? Are you prepared to hand-raise the kittens if mom can't or won't? (Kitten formula and bottles, etc.) If you have to hand-rear them, you'll need lots of help.

How are you going to take the cats to the vet? You won't be able to carry that big cage easily. Do you have a smaller carrier? If you do, how will you transfer the cat(s) to the carrier?

Have you arranged an appointment with a vet already? How is the vet going to deal with the pregnant female? Are you going to neuter the kitten(s) and immediately return him/her to the roof? 


Good luck. This will be a great adventure!


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## Lenkolas

Thank you for your advice! Let's see:

We have been feeding them for more than a month now. The little one is there all the time and he has even received food from my hand (and ran away quickly after that). Mom appears only when little one is there, so I have a very good chance to catch them both.

The trap has been there on the roof for 4 days now, so they are pretty used to it and they do get in to eat. Last night I was so tempted to close the door 'cause they were both in! But I wasn't ready with the after-catch preps.

Sturdy, as sturdy as it could get with those materials (no offense taken! :wink) The wooden floor is pretty heavy and I added 4 framing studs to the base like this ones 2 in. x 4 in. x 92 5/8 in. Stud - 569062 at The Home Depot that go beyond the side walls so the cats can't tip it over (I'll add more pics 'cause I don't know how to explain it!)

The 90° elbows are glued to the pipes with a PVC glue I bought (it was pretty smelly so I tried to use just enough to keep them in place) regardless of the glue, they fit pretty tightly. I used duct tape-only on 2 corners, because I didn't have enough 3-way joints...then I put duct tape on all corners just to make it safer. I'll re-check that to make it safer. 

Anyway the net is pretty strong -it is impossible to break it with your fingers- but I'll install a second layer to make it safer.

I have practiced a lot with the door, but I think the locking mechanism could fail. It has worked every time so far, but I'll take a closer look on that.

I was thinking that besides the locking mechanism, I could have someone else holding a rope that is attached to the door from the inside, so in case the locking mechanism fails he could hold the rope to keep the door closed...I don't know. 

I haven't thought about re-catching them if they escape in the garage. I'll see what I can do.

Mom and pregnancy: This is my biggest issue. I'll have a chat with my vet about the abortion thing. Most likely, mom is almost due, so I am considering taking her home until she delivers. I have an extra room so I can keep her confined. 

(yes I have appointments for tonight and tomorrow morning, and she's ready to receive them, and pretty excited too, I also have a lot of carriers and I have built a tiny door on the cage that connects to a carrier so I can transfer the cats) 


This is my plan:

Mom: Making her have the kittens here at home.
In case Mom won't accept them, release mom after she's spayed and keep the kittens until they're ready for adoption (and neutered too). 
I have never taken care of newborn kittens. I am planning to have a long chat with my vet tonight/tomorrow morning about that. I am aware of expenses and time. I have heating pads and bottle feeders to feed kittens ('cause my own cat, Chiquis, who's the son of Mom cat was only 1 month old when I took him home) I have one assistant willing to come and help me, even staying overnight, also my boyfriend is pretty supportive. That's all I have so far. 
What are the odds that mom would reject the kittens? :?

In case mom accept the kittens, and becomes a social cat, put her for adoption too, or maybe keeping her...

Little one: I'm pretty sure he or she'll get socialized soon. So after spayed, I'll see how it goes. Worst case scenario I'll release him/her back to the roof. Hopefully he'll feel confident enough to live around and use the shelter I built for them on the patio.

I know everything seems too homemade and cheap. But it is the best you can do in a country like this. Nobody cares about stray animals here. We have no wild animals here either so there are no such things as traps or cages to buy anywhere. I searched everywhere. There are no shelters or animal care organizations either, besides the informal groups of students that do what they can. So I'm by myself with this. No info and no interested people...I am lucky to know a wonderful vet that's willing to help me with my strays. I remember when I rescued Gatito (my 1 year old cat) from a home depot parking lot, I rushed to a vet, and when I got there with the little one inside a cardboard box, a lady held the door and told me "we do not receive stray animals here" I was shocked by her rudeness and told her "i'm here so you treat this kitten, I'm gonna pay for everything" and THEN they let me in. People always wonder how come I spend so much money on "street animals" (when I was buying stuff for the cage, a guy at home depot told me "all that effort to catch a homeless cat? you must be crazy")

....anyway.... I'll go for some last minute shopping. Thank you so much for everything!!!:smile: Some exciting times...!


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## suwanee

Sorry if I came off as a nosy knows-it-all! That wasn't my intent....I've been following this thread, so I know you have done a lot of preparation and spent a lot of time with these cats. You're doing a wonderful job and it seems you've thought of everything. I didn't know they had been fed in the cage for four days already. Time flies!

I love this idea:



> I was thinking that besides the locking mechanism, I could have someone else holding a rope that is attached to the door from the inside, so in case the locking mechanism fails he could hold the rope to keep the door closed...I don't know.


I'm sure you've had cats in carriers before and know how they can sneak out. Little devils!

Anyway, no need to answer my posts - I had no idea you'd go into such detail! I want you to feel supported, not feel you have to answer a bunch of questions. On the other hand, you may help someone else by telling your story and I love hearing about it.

You've done a fantastic job with the cage, I think it will be fine as it is, if there are no areas of overlap on that screening where she could get caught or wiggle through. 

As far as mom rejecting babies: that I have no idea. Maybe someone with feral births will be along to give you some encouragement. I only wonder how she will be as a trapped mom.

How exciting! You must be so happy! Again, good luck...just hours away.....


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## Lenkolas

12:10 I CAUGHT THEM!

They're inside the trap, safe and sound. It worked perfectly (rope and all) I'm regaining some strength now ( was so tense and my hands were shaking!), my boyfriend is with them right now. They seem pretty calmed, they're so beautiful! I'm trembling with excitement. 

I just wanted you to know, more tomorrow! Thank you for everything! (thanks suwanee!!)


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## suwanee

*Yay!! *










Talk to you tomorrow. Nice job!!!! So happy for you.


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## Heidi n Q

Lenkolas said:


> 12:10 I CAUGHT THEM!
> 
> They're inside the trap, safe and sound. It worked perfectly (rope and all) I'm regaining some strength now ( was so tense and my hands were shaking!), my boyfriend is with them right now. They seem pretty calmed, they're so beautiful! I'm trembling with excitement.
> 
> I just wanted you to know, more tomorrow! Thank you for everything! (thanks suwanee!!)


Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay! What AWESOME GOOD NEWS! And they're CALM! Yay! 

Suwanee touched on the most important bits I was going to caution you about, and that was the sturdiness of the trap, how secure the door would be and the size of the trap for transportation to the vet. I would NOT recommend trying to transfer them to different cages, but after I read your description of the 'smaller hole' for transfering, I think that sounded great.

I have a tip for you when taking them to the vet:
Lay a plastic garbage bag on the floor of the vehicle, lay towels over that layer of plastic and then set the trap on top of that. The plastic will protect your vehicle and the towels will sop up any liquids so it can't run off the plastic and get on your vehicle.


As for her birthing in captivity and how successful that would be ... I shared a worst-case-scenario but I also think there are plenty of other cases where it turns out just fine. I share that story only so people will be informed that bad things *can* happen and they can make an informed decision regarding how successful they believe they can be with the personality of the cat, their skills and the environment they have to work with.

Here is a "cat-hutch" my husband made for the feral tomcat I'd been feeding in the barn that broke his leg before I had him tamed to my satisfaction for handling.









He did really well because I think my weeks of feeding him had helped gain his trust and he understood I was still trying to help him. When I felt it was getting too hot, I brought his hutch into our home and w/in a few days I was able to let him have the run of our house while he recovered.









Here he was a few months later 'mothering' my orphaned kitten. Not bad for a former, rough, tough, feral tomcat!


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## Greenport ferals

Great job, Lenkolas, can't wait to hear more about how they're doing.


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## Julie Carvill

:kittyturnWow! great job. Look forward to updates.


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## RachandNito

OMG you got BOTH of them!! I am so happy, this is awesome!


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## Lenkolas

Another quick update (tonight I'll tell you the whole catch story I promise!)

Kitties are fine, Mom is SO ANGRY right now, she's hissing and growling at me like crazy. The little one seems pretty calmed (when Mom is hissing he rubs his face with hers so she calms down, such a cutie!) well I haven't been able to see if it is a he or a she yet. 70% sure is a he.

I believe the little one can be easily socialized. Still not sure about Mom. She's wild. I've never heard such angry sounds like the ones that are coming out of her throat. Pretty scary. I have no idea how the vet is going to handle her.

Bad news: vet called me and told me not to take kitties today, 'cause she has two major surgeries (big dogs that got injured). So I have an appointment for tomorrow 9 am. I'll have to stick to that because I don't believe any regular vet would accept a feral pregnant cat.

I have to go to school now. I wish I could skip those classes but I can't. I feel so bad about the poor kitties being held inside that cage. Pretty much the same space of your "cat-hutch" Heidi, but with two cats. I was so worried I could barely sleep last night (I went to bed at 4 and woke up at 8).

Thank you so much for your everything guys, I couldn't have done this without your support -10000 kilometers away :heart MUCHAS GRACIAS!

More tonight (and some pics too)


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## ShadowsRescue

I am so happy that you were able to trap them. It's too bad you couldn't get them to the vet today. Good luck with them. I will be waiting to see what happens after the vet visit.


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## suwanee

They'll be fine. She's a pregnant feral in a cage. It doesn't get much more hissy-pissy than that.










I hope the dogs make it through their surgeries. Poor things.


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## RachandNito

> They'll be fine. She's a pregnant feral in a cage. It doesn't get much more hissy-pissy than that.


I think they can handle a day in a cage. They live on a roof for cryin' out loud, I'm sure they can tough it out, even if mom is acting like this is the end of the world. She may be acting tough, but I am sure she is just scared and confused- I wish there was some way to communicate with them that this is the best thing for them!


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## Heidi n Q

Best thing is to move slowly, speak soothingly as you explain things and give them eye-blinks. I know it sounds corny, but I really do feel that when we speak to them from our heart, they are able to pick up on that.


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## Fyreflie

Any news? How are your ferals now?


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## Lenkolas

Finally, I’m back. It took me two days to recover after what happened! I'm sorry that I couldn't post sooner. Today I'm back in track, and I've got my hands full 

***long post warning***

If the story of me catching the roof ferals would have been narrated in 3rd person, the narrator would have said “…little did she know…” after I caught them the first time.

Last time I posted it was Wednesday the 30th. Vet was busy so she couldn’t receive us next morning, so we would have to wait.
I finished posting, I went to the patio to check Mom and Brother (yes, I was right, he is a brother). They were fine. Mom still hating me, hissing and spitting like crazy, and Brother just staring at me from the corner of the cage. I was ready to leave when I heard the distinctive “mew-mew-mew” of a kitten…. A very small one… OMG! I looked around and realized the sound came from the roof. I ran upstairs to check the roof through the window and yes, there he was, a tiny small kitten that looked just like Chiquis used to look when we found him in that same place…
Long story short, I climbed up the roof and found FOUR kittens, all very small (4 weeks or less). 
So Mom had another litter after Chiquis and Brother… that explains why she was so angry and desperate...and maybe she was pregnant again. In that moment I felt my spirits falling...I almost cried. 

I missed classes to take care of the kittens. Two of them were in pretty good shape, the other two were only skin and bones, and their eyes covered with pus (actually one of them had his eyes completely closed because of the infection). 
After a quick trip to a near vet/pet store to get some supplies (ciprofloxacin for their eyes, cans of hills prescription food, frontline…to add to the already too high and increasing list of expenses) I took care of the little ones. They ate desperately, the two big ones by themselves, the other two syringe-fed. I cleaned their eyes, I prepared a box with a heating pad and left them inside one bathroom. It was 3 am, I was going back to the office at 8 am anyway.
I slept 3 hours ‘cause we arrived home to prepare the room for the kittens. 

Next morning I arrived to the office at 8, I checked the kittens inside the bathroom, they were sleeping. I went outside and checked Mom and Bro’s cage…and the cats were not there.

Yes, Mom and Bro had escaped. I just stood there for a while, refusing to believe it. The cage seemed fine. How did they escape? I was about to burst into tears when I saw Brother on the roof, looking at me like saying "ok, now that we're back where we used to, where's the food?" I had to catch them again. I refused to quit after so much work, so many sleepless nights…
I prepared the trap again. More help arrived: my sister in law and her bf. I told them what happened and we quickly got everything ready: trap, food, stick, ropes, big towel…we hid. Bro went inside right away, before our incredulous eyes. And suddenly, Mom appeared! She went inside too. My sister in law pulled the rope, and they were trapped again.
We were so nervous (Sister in law, her BF and I) that we ran outside and started taking the trap down from the roof with trembling hands. I said “Let’s go inside the garage to calm them down”, and the moment we stepped inside the garage Mom made the most awful spitting sound, we tripped and she managed to escape! She ran under the car…what a nightmare! We secured brother and re-caught Mom after 10 minutes of chasing her around the garage (one of the scariest experiences I’ve ever had).

31 of March, 10 am and we were finaly in the vet, not with two but with six cats: Mom, Bro and four tiny kittens. Words are not enough to illustrate how awful it was for Mom, and for us because of her. She hissed and spitted, growled and jumped…the vet injected her through the cage after like 10 attempts, then she took brother with her very hands (he hissed a lot but didn’t put much resistance) and inoculated him with anesthesia too. They were both ready to be spayed…

Little ones were fine, besides the usual (worms, eye infection) their eyes were not as bad as Chiquis' eye were, no ulcers. We went back home with the little ones, we all had some sleep and went back to get Mom and Bro at 3 pm. Mom was fine, she was not pregnant after all (poor girl, she was nursing the little ones) but after surgery she was so angry we could barely hold her cage between two people. People at the vet thought we had a wild animal like a cougar inside. "No, it's just a feral cat..." As I thought, there was no chance she could be socialized. So the vet instructed us to release her next morning, but at 7 pm it got so dramatic (she was knocking herself on the carrier’s door, she hurt her nose) that we had to let her go. She jumped back to the roof and that was it.

Brother went home with me. He just stared at me and hissed a little bit. I still had hope for him to be socialized.
Next day (Friday) I took care of the little ones, cleaned them, fed them, taught them to use the litter box, gave them their antibiotics…Brother was inside the big carrier, refusing to eat or drink any water. That night Brother howled and cried for hours. It was very sad. I just sat bedides him, talked to him softly, I told him that if he wanted, I could find a nice family for him…but he didn’t seem to like the idea. He hissed when I tried to reach him, so I stopped trying.
Saturday, no change…he drank some water, but refused to eat. I started to get worried. That night the story repeated. I told him I would release him back to the roof next morning if he wanted that. He just looked at me like saying “I don’t want a house. I want my mom. I miss her”. Considering that I took the little ones from Mom and she was all by herself now, I thought that releasing bro back was the best for both of them. I went to bed crying, ‘cause I thought I could socialize him and save him from his life as a homeless cat on top of a roof...

I released him yesterday morning. He ran away desperately when I opened the cage. At 6 pm my boyfriend (who was working at the office) told me he saw both Mom and Bro on the roof waiting for the food to come, as usual! He fed them and changed the water, and they both ate avidly. They looked fine…

So that’s the end of the Roof Ferals Story, it seems that it was ages ago when I started with just an idea and a lot of hope. None of this would have been possible without the ones who helped me –bf, his sister and her bf- and of course, all of you. Thank you so much for your ideas and most of all, for your support. I’m very sorry that it didn’t work for Brother. I was so optimistic. But maybe that’s what he wants…being back to the roofs with Mom. We’ll continue feeding them and taking care of them…at least now they can’t get /leave a cat pregnant. 

I am very tired but now I have four kittens to foster (and I have to go back to school and to work to pay the bills hahaha). 

They are so cute I’m sure I’ll be able to find nice families for all of them… _*shakes her head to take away from her mind the idea of keeping them all, or at least one of them...*_ I’ll open a new thread to tell you about them.:love2

And now pictures! 

Day 1: Mom and Bro right after being caught

















Day 2: First pictures of the little ones


























Day 3: Mom at the vet, VERY angry. Poor girl.










Bro at the vet, anesthetized









Mom before being released 









The little ones at home


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## Greenport ferals

Wow, what a story. Those cats put you through the wringer. I'm sure you are still all stressed out. 
Way to go for hanging in there and getting the two cats fixed in spite of all the difficulties. 
Honestly, I think it all worked out for the best. Some feral cats want to stay feral. In the case of your two, you can offer them a good life on the roof. Food, water, shelter. That's all they need. 
The kits are too cute. Thanks to you, they have a real chance at a great life.


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## KittehLuv'n

Great job. What a daunting task you had before you, and you persevered.
Thank you for what you have done for all of them.


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## RachandNito

SQUEEE! Kittens! What a deal! So maybe mom and brother want to stay wild, but now you have the chance to save these kittens. You've done such a great thing for these cats, I have tears in my eye. I am so proud of you, this is just awesome! Can't wait for the kitten thread, that little black one with the white blaze is my favorite.


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## Fyreflie

Oh, so SO glad you found the kittens! We trapped a half-wild momma cat when I was only 10 or 12 years old, intending to rehome her on a farm (we lived in a subdivision) after we'd been feeding her a few weeks. After catching her we had to board up the hole she had been climbing into under the eaves of the house and--same thing! --tiny mews. Went up through the attic and there were two kittens, only a few days old. We kept her and kittens inside until they were a bit bigger and then started letting her in and out again, she kept coming back to nurse the kittens and never really got used to us. My mom was severely allergic and one day we came home from school and she had let the kittens and Mom go to the farm (a real farm, not the farm in the sky!). Not sure what happened to them after that but we were so glad we found the tiny ones before they perished in our attic! Looks like you have your hands full! Congratulations for doing a huge job!


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## ShadowsRescue

What an ordeal you have been through. It is so wonderful that you worked so hard and retrapped Mom and bro. What a surprise to find kittens. You are to be commended for all your hard work!!!


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## Heidi n Q

Wow. Wow! 0_o 
You are AMAZING to have stuck with it and accomplished so much! You did fine. You did a Great Thing for all of the kitties. The older ones will adjust ... and you *may just find* ... that Mom and Bro, after a bit more time of being fed and cared for by you will slowly relax (when they realize their life isn't so hard) and allow themselves to become semi-domesticated. Even though they seemed wild/scared ... they may have enough time to think about things and realize they weren't deliberately hurt, they didn't die and you still give them food/water ... so you can't be *all* bad.
That is how almost all of my outdoor ferals began and eventually turned into housecats. Keep your hope alive, it may still happen.

The kitts are so lucky to have you caring for them and assuring them of a wonderful life. They look adorable! 
You are AMAZING and you did a FABULOUS job with all of them.


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## Lenkolas

Thank you so much for your kind words  You are awesome too. Kitties are doing great. I owe you a thread with kittens' pictures!!

Here's the video of Mom being released. She was very upset. We were really scared, you don't know how...vicious she was. Poor thing.

http://s1088.photobucket.com/albums/i325/Lenkolas/?action=view&current=MOV00581.mp4


_Some bad words in Spanish, but I'm sure you won't mind... (I'm sorry...)_


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## RachandNito

"Ciao!" hehe I loved that


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## Lenkolas

After a week, I saw Cobra again (Cobra is the name we gave to Mom, guess why). I was so worried. I spent 7 days imagining she was biting her sutures and probably she was very sick and whatever tragedy I could imagine. But yesterday I went to the office and I saw Brother as usual (still makes me sad to see him after my failed socializing attempt), and I saw Cobra with him, and I saw another cat that I think it must be Brother, Chiquis and kittens' dad (except for Negra, but who knows).
Well I guess they'll keep on coming if I give them food. 

I was thinking of getting a...like those plastic dog houses (I have no idea how you call them) and putting it on top of the roof so they can live -I mean sleep or take shelter from the rain - there, do you think they'll use it?

Hugs


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## Vivid Dawn

You could certainly try. My ferals used their special made shelters for about a month, then I guess found somewhere better? Though I can't imagine what would be better than an insulated & straw-filled house.
But I guess if they don't use them, that's their problem. At least we tried!


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