# Pregnant. How young?



## EqusArch (Oct 7, 2004)

What's the youngest age a cat can beomce pregnant? 

Our newest isn't fixed yet and she does go outside where we have stray males around often.

I'm going to guess she is between 4 to 6 months old.

I guess it didn't really click in my head that she not fixed until I saw a stray chase her up to our porch. We havne't had a young female in a very long time.


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## spacemonkey (Aug 12, 2004)

I have heard as young as 5-7 months 8O The vet said Scully, the preggo cat I rescued, wasn't even a year old yet when she had a litter! I would recommend you get your lil' girl spayed ASAP.


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## EqusArch (Oct 7, 2004)

Ohhh....not good then. She does have a hard tummy, but I'm hoping it's worms. I plan on taking her in two weeks once I'm off for the Holidays.

What's the gestation period with cats?

I just need to find a place to get it done. Our local vet charged me something like $150 to get Dudie done. I can't afford that.


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## spacemonkey (Aug 12, 2004)

Gestation period, I believe (I'm not positive ) is 63 days.


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## BelfiCat (Aug 28, 2004)

spacemonkey said:


> I have heard as young as 5-7 months


5-7 months! Wow, thats young! Oh dear, I'm in trouble! :x 

As Kirby's a boy and Lily's a girl (about 5 months now) I really need to neuter them to stop any litters, but Lily is too small to be neutered (even at 6 months, the vet said she will be too small so they'll have to wait) and Kirby can't get neutered either until a year and a half as his parts are growing inside him! Can Kirby still get Lily pregnant then? And what should I do? I know there are already enough kittens in the world without me adding to them!


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## spacemonkey (Aug 12, 2004)

That's a tough one... :? Have you consulted their breeder??


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## OsnobunnieO (Jun 28, 2004)

How much does she weigh?

I would think six months is plenty old enough. Your vet may not want to do it, but I'm sure she'd be completely fine.

If need be, we've done cats as long as they were over 2lbs (though its nothing something we do often).

And since its possible she can get pregnant while you're waiting on her to be big enough to spay, you may end up paying more to have her spayed while she's pregnant (you might not even know it until you bring her in).

But a 5-6months shouldn't be a problem in having her spayed.

Also, if you can't afford to take her to your normal vet, you may try to find a low cost clinic near you, or even your local humane society.


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## BoscosMum (Apr 29, 2004)

Since the ball is rolling on this subject...
What are you're guys opinions and feelings about having a female 
cat spayed if she is pregnant? Since I did adopt a stray female less than 2 weeks ago...I have been really struggling with this decision in my mind.
Take her in and spay her tomorrow....or wait and see if she is already carrying a litter? I am heartwrenched to think of killing kittens and I am heartwrenched to think of adding to the feline overpopulation.

This stinks!


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

Dawn, that is a very personal choice. I think you'd find that half of the members would spay regardless, and the other half would not even consider it. It's a touchy subject. If in doubt I would wait. I'm sure you will find that many people will disagree with me. 

EqusArch, 63 days *is* the gestation period for cats, as Emily said. You are in the same boat as Dawn is. Make sure you keep your cats in the house, regardless. If they're not pregnant now, you can prevent pregnancy by isolating them. 

I wish you all the best.


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## Padunk (Oct 20, 2003)

I spayed Punky when she was pregnant. I didn't know she was when I adopted her, and being my first cat I don't think I could've handled the responsibility of newborns. The vet said most people around here that get pregnant cats take them back to the shelter and the shelter euthanizes the cat. Punky was also emaciated, the vet felt the pregnancy could be dangerous for her.

It was a difficult and personal choice. Situations can vary, and who knows if I'll cross that bridge again... but I can't say I wouldn't do it again.


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## BelfiCat (Aug 28, 2004)

Sorry, maybe I should have been clearer. When I said the vet said she's too small to be sprayed at six months, I didn't mean he thinks all 6 month cats are too young, it's just that Lily has always been seriously underweight for her age, and he said that he would rather her being bigger (around 8-9 months) before he operated on her. She's being growing alot though, and I think she's about 2.5 lbs now, so maybe he wouldn't mind spraying her.

If it turns out she is pregnant though, I'm in for a tough choice. I've looked after newborn kittens before so I know how to care for them, but I know there is so many cats in the world who need homes, I'd hate to bring more kittens into the world to take their place in the homes of people. If she does have kittens, I'd probably keep them myslef, but i'm just hoping it doesn't come to that and the vet will agree to have her sprayed before then.


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## emma_pen (Nov 2, 2004)

I think its fairly irresponsible of a vet to put off neutering Lily if he knows you have an entire male cat 8O 
I don't know what you can do, but you are going to have to seperate them if you are not going to get one or both of them neutered. Not just bevause of the amount of unwanted kittens in the world - if Lily is too underweight to be neutered, she is also too underweight to be pregnant. Carrying a litter full-term at such a young age when she's so small would do her a lot more harm than being speyed, in fact she'd probably have to have a caesarian and that is far more risky than a routine spey.
How old is Kirby? I assume you mean he is cryptorchid? If he's over 9 months of age, they are not going to drop, and there is a HUGE chance of cryptorchid testicles turning into tumours. If I were you, I would get Kirby castrated now, and Lily in a couple more months time. 

Ems x


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## BelfiCat (Aug 28, 2004)

Kirby will be 8 months at the end of the month. The vet said that he will not neuter him yet because up to the age of a year and a half, Kirby's bits still may drop, and the operation to remove them before they drop can be risky and expensive. We asked the breeder and she said to get Kirby neuetered when he's a year old, because after that there will be very little chance of them dropping.

I think Lily is going to have another check up at the end of this month (the vet has been keeping track of her weight since we got her) so I will discuss it with him then. I hope he will be happy to preform the operation by that time if Lily has grow enough, so I'm just keeping my fingers crossed until then.


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## Sol (Feb 20, 2003)

I would have her spayed since she weighs more than 2 lbs. Such a small cat could actuarally get in some trouble if she did get pregnant. 

If your vet still won't spay her maybe he can give you a prescription on birth control pills? Many vets in Sweden do that if they think the female is to small for the surgery and there's an entire male in the same house. The cat gets hormones just until she's big enough for the surgery.


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## Sol (Feb 20, 2003)

BoscosMum said:


> Since the ball is rolling on this subject...
> What are you're guys opinions and feelings about having a female
> cat spayed if she is pregnant? Since I did adopt a stray female less than 2 weeks ago...I have been really struggling with this decision in my mind.
> Take her in and spay her tomorrow....or wait and see if she is already carrying a litter? I am heartwrenched to think of killing kittens and I am heartwrenched to think of adding to the feline overpopulation.
> ...


And this subject... it all depends on the situation. The females age and health, for how long she's been pregnant, if one can care for the kittens, if one can find homes to them or if one is willing to keep them all.

For me... if it's a fully grown and healthy female and she's been pregnant for more than 4 weeks I would let her have the kittens, but then I am willing to keep the whole bunch if I can't find new homes to them. 

But it all depends on the situation. I have nothing principally against spaying pregnant females, absolutely not, it's just that I have no problems taking care of kittens, at least not today.


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## OsnobunnieO (Jun 28, 2004)

I didn't realize just how small your kitty is! 6 months old and maybe 2.5lbs? wow 

I think you really need to have a long talk with your vet about all the pros and cons of fixing both of them. And you might also ask the breeder if this happens with a lot of her kittens. I know you're not breeding them, so that's not why, but just to kind of see how it all turned out with the others.

Has she had a lot of males with this problem? What happened to them? things like that.

I also agree that if she does get pregnant it will most likely cause a lot of problems. 

It can't hurt to ask questions. At least you'll know you're making the right decision in whatever you choose.


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

Belficat, I think your kittens are heartwrenchingly beautiful. However, my guess is that their problems are due to an unfortunate breeding. I might be entirely wrong, but this possibility does point out the dangers breeders face. A mistake in choosing a suitable pair can result in many such problems. I hope the breeder sold them to you at a nominal fee, and explained their health problems, and the possibility of a limited life span. That is the ethical thing to do. In addition, I hope she never repeats that breeding.  

I had one collie pup, the early pick of the litter, who was born with a microthalmic eye and a heart defect. His conformation and movement were beautiful, and the owner of the stud dog wanted to show him, rather than accept a stud fee. However, we soon learned that one eye would not open--ever. I had surgery done to open that blind eye in order to improve its appearance, and the vet also found a heart defect. 

I sold that puppy for about 10% of the vet costs alone, (with no papers or breeding privileges) and the buyer realized that he would have a short life span. She had dreamed of a collie all of her life, and wanted him desperately. I'm sure he had a wonderful, but short life. This sort of thing can happen, even to the best breeders. The owner of the stud dog had many champions, and was a collie and all breed judge with an excellent reputation. Of course, that breeding was never repeated.


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## BelfiCat (Aug 28, 2004)

When my vet first found how small Lily was at 14/15 weeks, weighing at about 700 grams, he was very worried about her, and thought she may be suffering heart probelms. He checked her out completely, and when it turned out she was perfectly healthy done some research about her siblings. It turns out that out of the litter, Lily was the middle sized. A silver boy was even smaller than she was, and a silver girl was only slightly bigger. Now when I actually went to get lily from the breeders, I thought she was a little 4 week old kitten from another litter, I didn't realize a 13 week old kitten could be so small, and even more surprisingly, we saw two of the breeders females in cages with their kittens, and they were about the same size as Kirby at 6 months! We asked her about this and she said that Chinchilla cats are rather small anyway, so we didn't think too much of it and didn't ask anymore.

With Kirby's problem though, the breeder was going to keep his brother, a beautiful golden boy, only to discover that he didn't have any bits either so she had to sell him. We didn't know about Kirby's condition when we got him, so we paid the full price, and we didn't realize Lily was so underweight (we thought she only seemed so much smaller than Kirby because we don't remember him so young and we've seen him grow so much), so we also paid the full price. 

I don't know whether the breeder will breed these cats again, Kirby and Lily both share the same father, so maybe this male causes the problems, but I know she has been under alot of stress latley and problems (one of her studs turned out to have a heart condition so she had to put him down and return all the money to people who had bought the kittens, and also one of her cats had to have a caesserean, but she put it off for as long as she could because she couldn't pay for it which resulted in the death of two of the four kittens). I can see she's having alot of problems, and I don't believe she's a very proffesional breeder, so I'm not sure if I really want her advice, or will follow it if I get it. I'm going to trust the vets adice more on this, and anything you guys can help me with. If you think that contacting teh breeder will do alot of help, I will do so, but from what I can see, she seems to be having enough problems of her own without me adding to it.


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

I think she has a moral obligation to return most of your money. You might have waited too long, however, as there is probably a statute of limitation. I don't mean to be unkind, but it sounds to me as if she should not be a breeder. Breeders have to have a fund for emergencies. By putting off the caesarean, she risked the life of the queen, as well as the kittens. This is so sad. Unfortunately, if there's no legal recourse, (ask an attorney, if you can) you will have to bear the cost of the necessary surgery on Kirby. If the association to which she belongs knew about her practices, I think she would lose her membership. This is so sad.


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## BelfiCat (Aug 28, 2004)

I realized she may not be a very responsible breeder, but putting her out of buisness is the last thing I have in mind. I would really hate for her to lose her cats just because of a few problems I'v been having. I am not bothered about the money, £350 per cat is _alot_ of money to me, but my cats are my cats, and they are worth the world to me. We've got Kirby on insurance so they are willing to pay for most of his operation (I think we'll only end up paying £50 in the end) so I'm not too bothered about money, I am just worried about my cats and what will happen before they can finally be sorted. 

Next time Lily visists the vets I'll have a serious discussion with him about it, and see if he can put forward Kirby's operation. If he still reckons it's more sensible to wait I'll try my luck with some birth control pills for Lily. Are their any side effects though, in using these? I'm worried that she may be too young.


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

You are very kind, and I understand how you feel. Noone wants to hurt another human being. Unfortunately, however, the biggest price will be paid by the kittens which she will be breeding in the future, unless she makes drastic changes in her breeding program. Perhaps you would be willing to speak to her about that. If she's a caring person she will want to prevent the possibility of future tragedies, such as the late caesarean and kittens with congenital defects. 

The birth control pills were not available in the states the last time I questioned my vet. I'm sorry I can't help you with that.


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## ForJazz (Dec 30, 2003)

Wow -- this discussion has really turned serious. Belficat, I feel for you. And you are really a sweet person to not want to cause any trouble. Does she belong to a persian organization like Jeanie mentioned? 

Maybe this is hard, but from the sounds of it, if your breeder lost her membership and had to stop breeding, it would be for the best. And it wouldn't be *just* because you are having a few problems with your cats...it sounds to me like plenty of their siblings are also having problems, and that shouldn't be ignored. Her cats are suffering. Yes -- she probably loves them and feels bad, but the truth is, feeling bad about it won't save their lives if she doesn't have the funds or the knowledge to breed responsibly. 

Kirby and Lily are beautiful, and they are so lucky to have fallen into your hands. I know you will do what's best for them, and their future brothers and sisters.


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## emma_pen (Nov 2, 2004)

Ok, I checked with my boss, and the opinion is that if Kirby's testicles haven't descended yet, they are very very unlikely too, and he may start spraying in the house soon as well, especially if Lily is approaching a season. I would get him done ASAP.


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## BelfiCat (Aug 28, 2004)

I've been thinking about this for so long, and sometimes I'm convinced that I have to do something, other times I think, I'll just ignore it, it's none of my buisness. In the end guys, I really cannot bring myself to do anything. I cannot be responsible for the breeder losing her cats, I just can't, it would eat me up for weeks and months, and I know I'll always feel angry at myself, and guilty. She has given me two beautiful kittens, two little companions, and what would I do in return? take away her kittens, her companions, her babies. I realize that there are problems with her breeding, but she is a fairly new breeder (only been breeding for four years) so I'm just hoping it's beginners mistakes and nothing too major. I don't beliveve she is part of a club or organisation, and now I'm just stuck. What can I do? I feel so useless!


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## spacemonkey (Aug 12, 2004)

BelfieCat-

I realize how hard this is for you. I understand you not wanting to feel guilty for putting her out of business  

But take a good look at your two kitties. Would you wish their health issues on another cat? On another owner? Is it worth it just to avoid hurting her feelings or offending her?

((((hugs))))))


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## ForJazz (Dec 30, 2003)

BelfiCat said:


> I've been thinking about this for so long, and sometimes I'm convinced that I have to do something, other times I think, I'll just ignore it, it's none of my buisness. In the end guys, I really cannot bring myself to do anything. I cannot be responsible for the breeder losing her cats, I just can't, it would eat me up for weeks and months, and I know I'll always feel angry at myself, and guilty. She has given me two beautiful kittens, two little companions, and what would I do in return? take away her kittens, her companions, her babies. I realize that there are problems with her breeding, but she is a fairly new breeder (only been breeding for four years) so I'm just hoping it's beginners mistakes and nothing too major. I don't beliveve she is part of a club or organisation, and now I'm just stuck. What can I do? I feel so useless!


I really feel for you. And I don't think that you need to think of it this way at all. You could even talk to *her* -- it's not like you would be turning her into the police or something. You could tell her that you are concerned, you love your cats but you feel that the problems in their parents breeding lead to health issues and could have been prevented. I believe that simply not asking her for any money back is VERY kind of you, and she should appreciate that, considering that reputable breeders would refund money in a heartbeat. I know you feel she has a lot of problems already -- but honestly, she shouldn't be breeding if she's not prepared to deal with problems that HER ill judgement caused. It will only hurt her cats, who are innocent in this, and have no control over what she does with them. You would *not* be responsible for her losing her cats if she did...remember that. You are not the only one that bought kitties with health issues at full price from this woman...and only SHE is responsible for that. 

Your cats came to you, and they are the best gifts you've recieved. That doesn't mean that this woman is a good breeder. And *she* didn't give you the cats. She bred them and housed them before you -- she would have sold them to someone else if you hadn't come along. She didn't do you a favor -- you did HER one by paying full price for them. 

If she's not part of an organization, then she probably does not know enough about breeding to get it right with "practice." Cats are not something you should "keep trying" at, and just toss away the rejects. They are lives, and if you don't know what you're doing, you should not be playing with them. Four years is plenty of time if you have a good mentor and have done your research.


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