# Deprately seeking advice



## BamMcg (Apr 25, 2005)

I posted a while back about a kitten with issues about attacking feet and acting wierd. It was the concensus that it was normal kitten behavior. Well, it keeps getting worse. Let me give you some background information on him. I recieved him at the young age of 5 weeks. He was tiny. He walked like he was drugged and now is finally well and active after bottle feeding, teaching how to drink water and even to eat on his own. Anyways, this may be an issue of being taken from mom too early, I don't know. But let me give you a normal scenario, in fact, I'll tell you exactly what just happened not 5 minutes ago...
Beaver is sleeping in a pile of clean whites and looked so cute, so I took the opertunity to hold him, while he was calm which is hardly ever, so I put him on my tummy and layed down to watch a movie. This woke him up a little and he started rooting around, he tries extremely hard to nurse all the time and nudges really hard, slobbering all over the place. He did this for about 5 minutes(while I tried to make him stop) and he was getting pretty angry that he didn't find "anything.", so he bit my nose and cheek, not too hard but it hurt so I put him down, I think becuase he was frustrated). He jumped back up and looked angry(like when they put their ears back, do the stare and grumble while swishing their tail). All I could do was to keep putting him down, over and over, but he keeps attacking(this is not play). Before I could do anything, he attacked my arm, and I am bleeding. I have bit marks on my face as well. I feel like crying, not becuase it hurt so much, it did though, but becuase I'm so frustrated that I don't know what to do. I have small kids, they are afraid of him now as well. I've tried putting him in time out in the bathroom, he just crys and the second you let him out, he attackes again. I've tried hissing at him, but that just makes him more angry. My hubby and I brought him to be one night, he's a heavy sleeper, and he went to work. Well, beaver had attacked him in the night and bloodied his face( he didn't notice until co-workers asked him what happend)... he had scratches all over, not just his face. (he goes to work at 4:40 in the morning and takes a shower there after PT) The scratches don't hurt as much as the bites. I also have a couple that look like they might be a little infected, they are swollen and look like bee stings. He goes so insain, fur flys. He likes water, so I don't think spraying him would work. He's either asleep or attaching or nudging to nurse, he's 9 weeks old now so he doesn't need it. I need help, this is getting ridiculous.


----------



## Vanessatx (May 12, 2005)

What does he do when you play with him? Mischief attacked both of my boyfriend brothers last night, she scratched one in the arm while he was asleep and she bit the other one in the nose. I dont know, I say its because they where probably moving so she was playing. Is she always just attacking you?


----------



## BamMcg (Apr 25, 2005)

Sometimes he's playing, sometimes not. It's when he's not that it hurts really bad. I have scars from the times he's not, tried to take pics but my camera needs batteries. When he's not, he'll attack and keep going, then when he's done, he hides for a few minutes and then comes out like nothing happened. But I can tell he's mad when he is attacking and not playing. He growels and looks ticked. It's like have you ever seen a ferrel cat picked up? Like that. I don't know how else to explain it. We have toys for him, ect. And he does play, but 3-4 times a day, it's really attack mode. He's kennel trained, so I might just keep him in there until he can behave himself, but it seems too mean to leave him locked up all the time. Another time he attacks is when you are eating and he wants your food. Could this be food agression? Like the whole nursing thing? He has food down at all times though, so he's not going hungery and he eats fine. My new bites are starting to swell up, I wish I could post pics to show exactly how bad they are. I understand the whole kitten play thing, but this isn't that. And it's not like he's ferrel, I've had him since 5 weeks and he's not afraid of people.


----------



## BamMcg (Apr 25, 2005)

Oh, and I wasn't playing with him and I wasn't moving, I was on my way to sleep, exept for when I pushed him away when he nudged on me, the slobber is gross and my shirt gets soaked.


----------



## Vanessatx (May 12, 2005)

How old is he? Do you think you could grab him by the neck and show him who's in charge? maybe if you start giving him some of that cat milk in a bottle to him again,I dunno that might be more but who knows. Whenever you play with him dont let him play bite you no more unless it's really really just a play bite and it doesn't hurt more than that. Don't let him sleep in your room anymore. I dont know what you should do in that situation but thats waht I would try.


----------



## BamMcg (Apr 25, 2005)

Okay, I was reading another thread and it said to "scruff" them. Just wanted to make sure that everyone knows that I am already doing this. I've reverted to acting like momma cat. I grab him by the scruff, yell "ouch", then "no bite", Hiss, and put him down. Which in turn, ticks him off more and he attacks again. He seems to get worse if I scold him. But I can't do nothing and just let him, I don't know.


----------



## BamMcg (Apr 25, 2005)

He's only 9 weeks. Hubby aready said no more cat in the bedroom.... ever. It really made him mad. Oh, and getting him to bottle feed was a pain in the butt before. I used to have to sweeze some milk into the pocket of his cheek and let him swallow.


----------



## Vanessatx (May 12, 2005)

WOW 8O


----------



## BamMcg (Apr 25, 2005)

Just so you know that I know the difference, here is Beaver ready to play. He may look mean, but I can tell the difference. His hair stands up, he growels, tail swishes and he gives me the evil eye... then I know to brace myself. Can you immagine if I can't fix this before he gets older? Wow, that would hurt. anyways, here he is in a play stance...


----------



## Vanessatx (May 12, 2005)

I kno what you mean my moms cat used to do the same cat to me but it was only to me eventually things cooled off. I've ran out of ideas the only thing I have left to say is good luck and keep me updated...Your kitty is a really cute devil :twisted: . I really want to know how you solve this


----------



## nikako (Apr 28, 2005)

*BamMcg *, 

I'd suggest that you do some reading-up on kitten and cat behavior so that you can get a better understanding of your kitten.

First, I want to reassure you that none of this stuff he's doing is planned or deliberate or malicious... he's just a kitten. He isn't 'mad'... he's playing and developing his instinctive cat skills. Those instincts just don't translate into human behavior patterns. 

Even after he's just a kitten, he's just a cat... not a person... he doesn't operate anywhere near the same levels or on along the same purposes as we do. You know how old he is, and that he doesn't need to nurse anymore, but he doesn't 'know' anything... he's just acting on instinct... not rational logic. Try to adjust your thinking to accommodate his instinct versus the behavior you desire from him.

Anyway....

It really sounds a bit like he's reacting to overstimulation. 

The first thing I would do would be to restrict him from your bedroom at night. You and your husband obviously don't enjoy being mauled, so don't put up with it. You must be in charge. Keep the kitten in some other room at night when you go to bed.

It sounds like you let him have free run of the house... that's fine, except when it comes to your table. There's no way you should allow him to develop a habit of competing with you for food. Don't allow him anywhere near your food. If necessary, isolate him in a different room while you're preparing your food and/or eating.

Personally, I think a lot of these problems stem from the kitten being taken away from its mother too soon. You still can manage to socialize him, though. Try reading through some of the info on kittens here:


http://cats.about.com/


Rick


----------



## nikako (Apr 28, 2005)

NewRagdoll said:


> However, I think if you took a survey here you would find most of us wouldn't be bothered by the slobber....we'd just wear a shirt we didn't care about as much or get a towel. We would actually think part of it was cute.


:lol: Nika has actually just recently turned into more of a slobberpuss that she was before she was spayed! 

Nika & Niko were weaned a bit earlier than I'd have preferred, but I didn't really have a say in that matter. From the time I got them, Nika has always been a bit less 'mature'. She socialized later than Niko, and everytime they laid down to sleep... whether with or without me... Nika would always do the pseudo-nursing thing on Niko... and Niko always tolerated it... even though it meant getting half of herself drenched in Nika's spit. :roll: 

Now, everytime I pet or comb Nika, she drools all over me. 

Niko is still always a bit damp in the morning, too.

Oh, well... at least I know she's not dehydrated, right?



Rick


----------



## BamMcg (Apr 25, 2005)

Quote: 
I was on my way to sleep, exept for when I pushed him away when he nudged on me, the slobber is gross and my shirt gets soaked. 

He was trying to nudge and you pushed him away.....the slobber is gross.....and your shirt gets soaked. I'm sorry, but that doesn't sound like the way a cat lover would talk. 


*I don't think this is proper behavior. It leads to the biting. Anything I can do to stop the biting, I will. It used to be cute, however the biting isn't. And, yes the drool is gross. It's not like it's just a little, it completely soaks my shirt to where I need to squeeze out the exess. *
Quote: 
Hubby aready said no more cat in the bedroom.... ever. It really made him mad. 

Ever? Because of something he did one time as a kitten? That doesn't sound like the way a cat lover would talk.
*Nope hubby is not a cat lover, but I am. I let my other kitty sleep with me for 17 years*

Quote: 
Oh, and getting him to bottle feed was a pain in the butt before. 

Giving a cat medications will be a pain in the butt. But one still does it, because its needed. 

*Yes, giving him a bottle was a pain in the butt. He didn't like it one bit, but he needed it so I forced him. Becuase I LOVE him. If I didn't, I would've given him away with the issues he's been having. I don't see any need for bottle feeding right now, why put us both through that torchure... it was a pain in the butt, just like meds, which I'd give him if he needed them, but he doesn't.*

Yes, my kids are young. I have a 6 year old, one that'll be 5 next month, and a 2 1/2 year old. The older 2 are very good with him, but I know what happened when the kids sream out in pain. I do sit there and watch them, don't get me wrong, they are wonderful with him. The littlest one needs some encourigment to even pet the kittten anymore he's so scared of him, but he, also, wouldn't ever hurt the kitten.

I am a cat lover. I had a cat since I was 4 years old and brought her into my marriage. We had her for a few years after that and she got sicker and sicker. The vet ran many tests at a great cost to myself to try and save her. They put her on meds, yes, I gave them to her for a very long time by forcing them down her. She didn't get better so I brought her to numberous other vets costing hundreds if not thousands of dollars to find out what was wrong. By the time she was 17 years old, she was about 7 1/2 lbs down from about 12 or so and extremely skinny. She held at 9 lbs before that for a while. They never found out what was wrong with her. By the time I made the decision to put her down, they went to insert the needle and her veins were collapsed. It took them a while to give her the drug and on the try they found an uncollapsed vein, I changed my mind, but it was too late. My mother-in-law and parents all took the day off of work for me that day and brought stuffed animals and a little coffin and a blanket to bury her in and we held a funeral. Just writting this is making me cry and that was 5 years ago. Now, 5 years later, I got up the nerve to get another kitten and I'm feeling patronized. This is not a little issue. I so wish I could post some pictures of my arms and face. Yes, she was taken from her mom early. I had no choice but to get her that early. Mom had gone to get spayed. She was a ferrel cat and the entire collony had been picked up by the humaine society. We have a catch and release here. They catch the collonies, spay and neuter thenma all and notch the ears, then they microchip them and release them back. Beaver had been away from mom for 2 days before I got him. It was a true rescue. I'm not looking for credit on a rescue, becuase look, I got Beaver, what more can I want. Exept to be able to raise him in the way that I should. Yes, I am frustrated and I had an ideah that it all stems from the way he started life. But where would he be now? Dead probably if he was left outside without mom and if the nice woman who called a friend of mine and told her about the kittens. In fact, he has siblings who are dead, neighborhood kids thought it was funny. Please don't patronize me before you know the whole story.


----------



## BamMcg (Apr 25, 2005)

This is growth and development, ect. Actually his whole story, in case you are interested. I also realized that my last post seemed harsh but this whole thing is getting to me so I am sorry...
http://www.msnusers.com/chins-and-cavaliers/beaver.msnw


----------



## BamMcg (Apr 25, 2005)

Rehoming isn't something I am even willing to consider. I just want this solved. I don't know if I should get him a stuffed animal to cuddle with at night, or keep him in his kennel until he calms down, an bring him out then when he acts up, place him back in until he calms down again, or to keep with what I am doing, or what. I can't find much on how to socialize a cat yourself on the net. The issues seem to just be getting worse. When he's playing and cuddling he's a sweetheart, but he can switch that on a turn of the dime. What exactly do I do then? I won't rehome him, he's already integrated in the family, plus it won't make these issues go away, someone else would have to deal with it. Even my hubby's comming around. I don't care about the destruction he's cuasing on the furnature, I really don't care about that. I wish I could fast forward or something to the point where he just plays and doesn't attack. I really think he's just frustrated when he attacks, which isn't his fault really. Like right now, he's just sleeping peacfully. I held him some more after the first post and he nudged some more. It's not like I shove him off me when he does it. I nudge his nose off my chest or pick him up for a momment off of me, but the second I put him back down, he starts again. He purrs while doing it and also kneads, which is cute, I just wish I didn't get soaked and bit at the end of it all is all. I even thought of fostering a cat from the humaine society to try and teach him, but I don't want things to get worse. Would it help or hinder? I don't know. I contacted them and they do have cats in need. Money isn't an issue with a second cat, I just couldn't keep it as we have 2 dogs as well and in the military, you can only have 2 "regular" pets, so I'm already one over my limit


----------



## BamMcg (Apr 25, 2005)

Thank you, that was exactly what I was looking for. I will do exactly that. Though the soaking will be only if I don't need to go anywhere nice LOL! I'm going to get his kennel back out, actually, It's a crate just big enough for his litter box food and his bed. If he does this, I will scruff him, yell ouch and tell him bad kitty in my hubby's harsh NCO tones and put him in the crate for about 10 minutes unless he still seems fumed and he'll stay longer. I'll post his crate as a pic on the next reply. Do you think this will work as punishment? I don't want to be so harsh on him that he doesn't like me anymore. I was reading too that they seem to take agression on who they like the most hoping they will know what is wrong, do you think that is why he mostly attacks only me and only tries to nurse off me? It would be nice if he could be passed to my husband while I change my shirt lol, but it doesn't work that way. I just can't stand to be wet, but I'll get over it. My hubby thinks it's cute and laughs when he does the whole soaking thing.


----------



## BamMcg (Apr 25, 2005)




----------



## Annissa (Dec 9, 2003)

I'm stumped on this one. If the behavior continues, I suggest calling an animal behaviorist. I recommend Jackson Galaxy at littlebigcat.com. Best of luck. I hope the advice you received here works for you.


----------



## Queenie (Mar 8, 2005)

The one thing that I have learned with cats is that they change ALL THE TIME. From one week to another I see changes in my cat, he never stays the same for long. 

If your husband doesnt want the cat in your bedroom dont worry about it, there are loads of people that think this isnt the right thing to do, cat lover or no cat lover. 

I believe in putting a cat in the "cooler". That is, when they have done something wrong, instead of hissing at it (which does make a cat more angry) put him into the room where his litter is and close the door. Withdraw all attention and love and hopefully he will get the message. He should be cooled down by the time he gets out anyway - 10-15 mins usually does the trick

Try not to panic, im sure with patience and time this will get better.


----------



## nikako (Apr 28, 2005)

BamMcg said:


> Quote:
> Now, 5 years later, I got up the nerve to get another kitten and I'm feeling patronized. This is not a little issue. I so wish I could post some pictures of my arms and face. Yes, she was taken from her mom early. I had no choice but to get her that early. Mom had gone to get spayed.
> 
> Please don't patronize me before you know the whole story.


*BamMcg*, 

I certainly was NOT patronizing you in my post.

I understand that you've had a cat before, and now you're having problems with your kitten, and you asked for advice... right? 

You _did_ want advice, right?




nikako said:


> Personally, I think a lot of these problems stem from the kitten being taken away from its mother too soon.
> *You still can manage to socialize him, though.*


I was not criticizing YOU about the kitten being weaned too early... I only stated that it seemed like a reason for some of his behavior... that's all.
I never said that it was your fault. I didn't even assume that you had any choice in when the kitten was weaned. 


I am quite sympathetic about your kitten problems... that's why I posted... 

If I had wanted to be condescending, I could have posted a much shorter message, but that's not how I feel. 

*I think there are solutions to your kitten problems,* but YOU have to make the solutions... that's not criticism... just fact.

Changes need to be made in the way you handle the kitten, and then the kitten will change... the kitten isn't going to 'fix' itself without your help.

Even if you really believe you know all there is to know about cats, please check out this website: http://cats.about.com/

They really do have a LOT of info on cats and kittens and behavior and care!


Rick


----------



## nikako (Apr 28, 2005)

How To Gentle A Kitten


----------



## BamMcg (Apr 25, 2005)

nikako
I wasn't talking about you, you were very helpful. There are certain things on another post that really hurt my feelings... your's didn't in any way. In fact you were very kind. I adress the specific points I had issues with. I'm sorry you thought I was talking about you.
-Thanks to everyone with more advice, I appreciate it. Beaver slept downstairs last night without a peep or accident! He's playing this morning, but not aggressive. I'll let you know how the day goes!


----------



## nikako (Apr 28, 2005)

*BamMcg *, 

Cool! 8) 


I hope everything'll be cool at your house ASAP!


Rick


----------

