# Cat attacked by big male.



## gibson1314 (Oct 27, 2008)

Hi folks,

I have posted before about cats entering my house through the cat flap and terrorizing my two females. I managed to sort the problem by fitting a sturdier cat flap that uses cat chip scanning. So the local bully tomact can't gain access anymore. Recently the cat has been round more often and has been more aggressive especially against Lucy who stands her ground against him. Tonight however the tomcat attacked her again and she came in bleeding from a wound under her belly and on her paw. I'm not sure if this cat is attacking her or trying to mate but it's the last straw for me. My cat now won't go out unless the door stays open and is defecating in the house. I have found out the cat belongs to an old couple down the road, who keep the cat in a shed. So I think he has free access to come and go when he pleases. Why you would want a cat if your going to keep it in a shed is beyond me. I think now i'm going to tell about this but what can I say. Then only thing I can think of is to ask them to keep the cat in at certain hours when I know my cat likes to go out. If they are not happy then I will defend my cat in my own garden, I am that angry.


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## P&R (Sep 10, 2009)

I would have a talk with them and let them know he's been coming into your house and that he attacked your cat. I'd have her checked just to make sure (you never know what he may have/might have picked up) and I'd talk to them and let them know they should be paying at least half since their cat did it. Good luck!


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

IMO...encounters with other animals is to be expected when pets are let outside unsupervised and I disagree with P&R ... _I would not try to make someone else pay half of my vet bill when my own cat was outside and just as free as the other cat_ ...your cat was free to stand her ground and fight AND free to leave and go in her home to safety where the other cat could not follow. 
'Stuff' happens when cats are outside and not under anyone's control or in a controlled environment.

The Facts:
_Other male cat is allowed outside. 
You are aware this cat has been a problem for your cats. 
You have taken steps to prevent access to your home by the male cat. 
Male cat remains a known a presence outside. 
You continue to allow your cat out. 
Your cat is choosing to stand her ground during encounters with the male cat._
This sounds like a "territory dispute" and the cats will have to work this out themselves. In fact, they *will* work this out themselves, every time they encounter each other, until they have reached some resolution that both cats agree to.

I am not meaning to be cold-hearted about your situation. I completely understand your frustration but this is a completely two-way street: *If your cat is allowed outside and able to roam wherever she pleases, then other cats have just as much right to the exact same freedoms your own cat enjoys.* You are getting angry at a cat because it is behaving like a cat.
I know you are angry and frustrated, but all of these cats are simply being CATS. 
Everything they are doing is instinctual and natural to them. This is not the tomcat's fault, neither is it your fault _or_ your cat's fault ... NO ONE knows exactly where their outdoor cats go and exactly what they do when they are out of their owner's sight. Your cat could be causing just as much trouble for someone else, so please consider that "outdoor" means "_outdoor_" and can include all manner of encounters and dangers in addition to a lot of other good things, but outdoors is full of *everything* and you'll have to weigh the benefits/risks and take the good with the bad if you have decided to accept the risks of allowing your cats outdoors.

Things I would address would be speaking with the cat's owners to confirm that he is altered and urging them to have him neutered ASAP if he is not, in hopes of testosterone reduction helping to curb his more aggressive tendencies. If the cat is already altered, I like your idea of arranging confinement so your respective cats wouldn't meet up with each other while they are out, though I suspect this could be difficult for this older couple to do if they cannot secure their cat in the shed and remember to let him out after he has been confined. The only other options would be to only allow your cats supervised outings so you may chase off the cat if you see him in your yard or making a cat-kennel type run or cat-proofing your garden to keep your kitties in and other kitties out.
Good luck,
heidi =^..^=


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## P&R (Sep 10, 2009)

Ok, I read it wrong (need to start wearing my glasses  ) I thought the other cat attacked yours/did that while he was inside your home. I'd still talk to the owner and see if he can do something to keep the cat in their yard and get yours checked out. I let the girls out but they don't leave the yard, soon as they go out of my site (side of the house) I bring them back inside the house so now they stay where I can see them and it makes easier. I'd feel horrible if my cat was going into another persons yard and I'd deff offer to help pay for any damages that my cat caused to another pet while on another persons property.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

No, you didn't really read it wrong. He has posted before about the male cat coming in his house and he resolved that particular problem with the installation of a coded-access cat flap door for his cats that does not allow admission for any animal not wearing a corresponding collar or chip with the code to the door.

Granted, I would feel responsible if my (_outdoor, of which I have none at this time_) cats were causing any neighbor property damage. But generally, there are no confinement laws for cats. Not like leash-laws for dogs.


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## hoofmaiden (Sep 28, 2009)

Heidi n Q said:


> I am not meaning to be cold-hearted about your situation. I completely understand your frustration but this is a completely two-way street: *If your cat is allowed outside and able to roam wherever she pleases, then other cats have just as much right to the exact same freedoms your own cat enjoys.* You are getting angry at a cat because it is behaving like a cat.
> I know you are angry and frustrated, but all of these cats are simply being CATS.


Absolutely. In the final analysis the facts are these:

(1) You cannot control the behavior of your cat if allowed to go outside.

(2) You cannot control the behavior of the neighborhood cats.

(3) You cannot control the behavior of your neighbor who owns the cat.

(4) You can, however, control your own behavior. You can make some changes to your home to make it fun and interesting for your cat, and keep her safe indoors from here on out. She'll live longer and, once she adjust to a new habit, she'll be very happy. You'll also be happier. Et voila!


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## gibson1314 (Oct 27, 2008)

Thank you for your input it has been good to read your thoughts on my problem. I'm afraid I have to disagree with a number of points that have been raised. 


Q1) If your cat is allowed outside and able to roam wherever she pleases, then other cats have just as much right to the exact same freedoms your own cat enjoys.
-Our cat who is attacked is a very quiet cat, who very rarely strays out of my garden and our 2 next door neighbours and definately goes nowhere near the garden of this other cat. This cat comes to our garden to attack my cat.

Q2) You can, however, control your own behavior. You can make some changes to your home to make it fun and interesting for your cat, and keep her safe indoors from here on out. She'll live longer and, once she adjust to a new habit, she'll be very happy. You'll also be happier. Et voila!
-Not good enough if I wanted a caged animal i'd have bought a rabbit or bird. Cats should not be kept indoors that is my opinion.

Q3) Granted, I would feel responsible if my (outdoor, of which I have none at this time) cats were causing any neighbor property damage.
-Absolutely I to would feel responsible.

I have found out from the cat owners neighbour that the cat sprays all over his car, shed and garden marking it's territory (Probably not neutered). He's not to happy about this and has mentioned it to the owners but nothing has happened. So therefore is it ok for the cat to do this to peoples property or should the cat be kept indoors? I would say the cat has the freedom to roam but I don't own a £50,000 Mercedes.


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## hoofmaiden (Sep 28, 2009)

gibson1314 said:


> Q1) If your cat is allowed outside and able to roam wherever she pleases, then other cats have just as much right to the exact same freedoms your own cat enjoys.
> -Our cat who is attacked is a very quiet cat, who very rarely strays out of my garden and our 2 next door neighbours and definately goes nowhere near the garden of this other cat. This cat comes to our garden to attack my cat.


The point is that unless your city has specific laws governing the behavior of cats (which even most places in the US do not, and the UK is far more lax in this area, so I'm guessing not), this is IRRELEVANT. Your cat doesn't get more "rights" because she is well-behaved by your standards, nor does the neighbor's cat get fewer b/c he is not. You cannot control their behavior.


> Q2) You can, however, control your own behavior. You can make some changes to your home to make it fun and interesting for your cat, and keep her safe indoors from here on out. She'll live longer and, once she adjust to a new habit, she'll be very happy. You'll also be happier. Et voila!
> -Not good enough if I wanted a caged animal i'd have bought a rabbit or bird. Cats should not be kept indoors that is my opinion.


Then you're going to have to put up with your cat getting beat up, the other cat entering your home, etc. I suppose you could catch the male cat next time he comes in and take him to a shelter. But of course, if your neighbor figures it out, he may well retaliate against your cat.

Basically, equating a cage with an entire house is a bit disingenuous, don't you think? Clearly they are not comparable. A house or apt is a LARGE area for a cat. It's all they need, esp. if you provide comfy perches so they can watch a bird feeder, high spots, toys, etc. 

[And BTW: IMO rabbits don't belong in cages, either. Mine were spayed/neutered, used litterboxes, had bonded companions, and had free-run of the house, just like my cats. They, too, did not go outside, and they lived to 12-14 years as a consequence.]

Obviously, it's your choice. But no one is going to be able to help you with your problem, b/c you do not have control over items 1-3 in my list, and if you refuse to change the one thing over which you DO have control, well, there isn't really anything left to suggest. <shrug>


> I have found out from the cat owners neighbour that the cat sprays all over his car, shed and garden marking it's territory (Probably not neutered). He's not to happy about this and has mentioned it to the owners but nothing has happened. So therefore is it ok for the cat to do this to peoples property or should the cat be kept indoors? I would say the cat has the freedom to roam but I don't own a £50,000 Mercedes.


Increasingly, municipalities in the US are making it illegal for unaltered cats to roam free at all, and some are making it illegal for cats to roam free, period, just like dogs. Violators are subject to fines. I'm all for this kind of legislation, but you probably would not be. However, you can't have it both ways--you want to be able to let YOUR cat go outside, but you don't want others to have the same right. Just doesn't work that way!


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

The reality is that it doesn't matter whether we or you think that owners are being irresponsible. If you believe your cat has the right to go outside and roam the neighborhood, then this cat has the same right. If there are no laws about appropriate behavior for roaming cats, then you have absolutely no leg to stand on. So approach the owners nicely and see if they'll cooperate, if not then you need to make a decision about keeping your cat in, only allowing supervised outings or letting her fight her own battles....


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

gibson1314 said:


> Q1) If your cat is allowed outside and able to roam wherever she pleases, then other cats have just as much right to the exact same freedoms your own cat enjoys.
> -Our cat who is attacked is a very quiet cat, who very rarely strays out of my garden and our 2 next door neighbours and definately goes nowhere near the garden of this other cat.
> This cat comes to our garden to attack my cat.


Aaaaahhhhh! I didn't *understand* the true nature of the problem! CLEARLY, the most expedient and best solution would be for you to speak to the tomcat and tell him he needs to stay in his own yard. Problem solved. Yay! 
However, as you no doubt are aware .... cats simply don't understand the concept of "property lines". 
It is obvious to ME that the male cat considers *your* property as part of *his* territory = "territorial dispute" and perfectly natural among cats.





gibson1314 said:


> Q3) Granted, I would feel responsible if my (_outdoor, of which I have none at this time_) cats were causing any neighbor property damage.
> -Absolutely I to would feel responsible.


Please do not use this as justification about the neighbor's cat 'discussing things' with your own cat and being responsible in any way for vet bills. 
Yes, to some degree, cats can be considered 'personal property' ... but we will circle around to the fact that outdoor cats do not understand property lines as boundaries. You have taken steps to refuse this cat access to your home, but again ... outside IS outside and whatever happens out there (_unless you take steps to control it_) is beyond your control and one of those things you will have to accept as an acceptable risk to allowing your cat outside, unsupervised, when a known cat-bully is in the neighborhood.


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## gibson1314 (Oct 27, 2008)

Heidi n Q said:


> gibson1314 said:
> 
> 
> > Q1) If your cat is allowed outside and able to roam wherever she pleases, then other cats have just as much right to the exact same freedoms your own cat enjoys.
> ...


When did I ever mention vet bills?


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

Gibson, years ago, almost everyone in the US had indoor-outdoor cats. Now I seldom see a cat outdoors. It became too dangerous in the States. 

I'm assuming that you live in the UK. I know it is unusual for anyone to keep her cat indoors in Gt. Britain, and we have to respect that. Sadly, however, since there are no laws regarding cats roaming free, I see no choice for you..except to keep your little friend indoors. 

I had indoor-outdoor cats myself for years, and paid a fortune for surgery on abscesses, and I buried some dearly loved cats who were hit by cars. Those are among the biggest reasons most people in the US keep their cats indoors. I would panic if my cat got outside. My cats have been playful and loving indoors. Please give it some thought. I hope all goes well for you and your pet. I know your heart would be broken if she got badly hurt.


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## raecarrow (Oct 27, 2009)

Once I get my own house, I will be building my kitties a screened in run to play in. For now, my kitties are happy with looking out my sliding door to the patio at the resident squirrel who likes to tease them. I also bought a nice sized kitty condo that I can wheel outside on nice days so my kitties can enjoy the sun shine.


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

You should not have to keep your cat inside because other cats are intruding on YOUR property. I would defend against this bully cat also, by whatever means necessary. 

You also should not have to defend to us your decision to allow your cat outside. Your cat, your decision. And probably the norm where you live.

I would approach this cat's owners and tell them what's been going on. Personally, I would set a trap for the cat and turn it in to the authorities as being dangerous.


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## melysion (Mar 12, 2007)

doodlebug said:


> The reality is that it doesn't matter whether we or you think that owners are being irresponsible. If you believe your cat has the right to go outside and roam the neighborhood, then this cat has the same right. If there are no laws about appropriate behavior for roaming cats, then you have absolutely no leg to stand on. So approach the owners nicely and see if they'll cooperate, if not then you need to make a decision about keeping your cat in, only allowing supervised outings or letting her fight her own battles....


Yep. Agree 100% with Lisa.

You live in Scotland, right? In which case, a cats right to roam is *protected by law*. If you let your cat outside, she will meet other cats and sometimes things might get a little feisty. And you have no right to tell the owners of the other cat to keep their cat in at certain times. It don't work like that.

You either let her get on defending her patch (the cats will sort it out between themselves eventually), supervise her outdoor outing, or keep her indoors. 

Cats will be cats  I hope it all works out in the end!

Slightly OT - I also agree with Marie73 - at no point did the OP ask opinions on whether the cat should be allowed out and they shouldn't have had to defend a decision which is perfectly normal in the UK. I only mention the indoor route as a possible option - I'm not telling the OP they are wrong to let their cats out at all.

*I respect peoples decision to keep their cats indoors. Its about time certain people here did likewise as regards to other people letting their cats outside, particularly if they come from a country whereby its the norm! Whats good for those on one side of the fence is plenty good enough for those on the other side!*


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

gibson1314 said:


> Thanks for your sarcastic remarks to my problem, I will know never to ask help from here again. We have had lack of sleep due to our cats screaming at this intruder through the night. We have just managed to get our 2 year old daughter into a sleep pattern, and she is being awoken because of someone else's cat is frightening our cats. I will take steps to ensure this cat doesn't come into my garden, as it's my territoy, not his, I will not allow him access.


Then I feel sorry for the poor cat, because he is only being true-to-his-nature: a cat, and once again, this turns into the story of a cat who pays the price for being himself.  Not that it matters; you didn't hear my earlier suggestions and my use of sarcasm in the face of your stubborn refusal to see/accept the situation for what it is, certainly didn't breach your barriers, either. 
Every cat has the right to be outdoors. 
When outdoors, unless steps are taken to control the situation, there will BE no control among cats. 
I fear for this tomcat because I wonder if you plan to *eliminate* him out of your frustration and lack-of-sleep.

There ARE things you can do to keep this cat out of your yard at night, if your cats are inside, and you want to sleep, w/out kitties yowling at each other through windows. There are _solutions_ that do not involve removing a cat from its' home-area. 
*Are you interested in hearing these ideas?*




gibson1314 said:


> Q3)
> 
> 
> Heidi n Q said:
> ...





Heidi n Q said:


> Please do not use this as justification about the neighbor's cat 'discussing things' with your own cat and being responsible in any way for vet bills.


When did I ever mention vet bills? [/quote]
I know you did not. I did. You quoted my comment and I wished to clarify my own intent because I was discussing property damage. _Expensive_ property: home/vehicle, damage. All you are experiencing from this cat is a vocal and physical territory dispute with your own cat which is something that is natural and occurs in *every* neighborhood where there are outdoor cats.


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

This thread is getting feisty....let's back it down a bit...


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## Huge2 (Jan 28, 2008)

Gibson, read what Marie, Allie and Doodlebug said. That's pretty much it. You need to face the fact that Big Bully cat has just as much right to roam as your cat. Talk to the neighbours and see if you can't come up with something. 

Although you do seem to have aimed a swift kick at the hornet's nest that is the Indoor/Outdoor debate  But don't worry, it's something that pretty much everyone here has done


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

Huge said:


> Although you do seem to have aimed a swift kick at the hornet's nest that is the Indoor/Outdoor debate  But don't worry, it's something that pretty much everyone here has done


I don't think this problem is one of indoor/outdoor at all. What it is, is accepting that what happens 'outside-the-boundary-of-the-residence' cannot be controlled unless specific steps are taken *to* control it and make it safe for specific cats by also making it inaccessible to certain cat(s). _A general property-line that seperates one yard from another is not understood by animals unless there is a barrier preventing access._
In fact, the only indoor/outdoor confrontation that I see here happens to be one of the OP wanting their cat to have unlimited access outdoors, yet simultaneously wants to restrict that same freedom for someone else's neighborhood cat. IMO, that could only work if *both parties* agreed to partial confinement for their pets and I'm not sure how that could work out unless both parties expended equal amounts of effort.
I *do* understand the frustration this family is feeling over the situation, but these animals are simply behaving naturally and true to their own nature. There are things we as home owners can do to help mitigate the impact of free-roaming cats but it will require some effort and inconvenience until resolution has been successfully reached.


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## hoofmaiden (Sep 28, 2009)

Heidi n Q said:


> In fact, the only indoor/outdoor confrontation that I see here happens to be one of the OP wanting their cat to have unlimited access outdoors, yet simultaneously wants to restrict that same freedom for someone else's neighborhood cat. IMO, that could only work if *both parties* agreed to partial confinement for their pets and I'm not sure how that could work out unless both parties expended equal amounts of effort.


Yup. I think it's pretty black and white, really . . . you cannot control the actions of others (animals or, unless there are laws in your favor, human beings). Hence, if you choose to allow your cat to go outside, you are stuck with dealing with the actions of others (animals and human beings). There's really no grey area there at all. :?


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

Huge said:


> Gibson, read what Marie, Allie and Doodlebug said.


No, I think Gibson has the right to trap the animal and turn it in. I don't believe a mean, bully cat has any right to be in someone's back yard if they're attacking the resident cat. If someone did that to Cinderella in MY yard, I'd put a stop to it, one way or another. :?


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

These cats in this situation are being governed by *instinct* and millions of years of evolution haven't changed much. If not *this* cat, next week it could be *another* cat who moves in to take this one's 'territory'.

I understand if my cats are outside of my direct control (_home and/or any containment aparatus_ they can encounter numerous dangers in the form of other cats, other animals including wildlife, people who wish to do deliberate harm and high-speed traffic on our road. I have taken steps to control all I can to keep them happy and safe. I have never considered removing a nuisance animal, I simply take steps to make my property uninviting.  ..._and in the case of cats, well, they all became our housepets._ :wink


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## Mitts & Tess (Sep 4, 2004)

Can I throw in this tid bit. Cat that are free roaming have a 2 mile radius. That is part of their makeup. Sooo... if a cat encounters another cat... it too is roaming its 2 mile radius! 

I have seen the sweetest cats go postal on another cat. Its part of their nature when working out who is boss in their 2 mile area.

In the US, if you trap a cat and turn it in to animal control its a death warrent. Even if you turn it in to a humane society its a death warrent esp now with all shelters being over run with cat and dogs and not enough homes to place them in.


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## melysion (Mar 12, 2007)

marie73 said:


> Huge said:
> 
> 
> > Gibson, read what Marie, Allie and Doodlebug said.
> ...


Actually, he hasn't got any such right at all. The law is on the cats side here - they have the right to roam in the UK. Chances are, the place he turns it in at wont accept the kitty if he makes it known that he knows the owner. I guess he could lie and suggest its a stray cat, but that would be immoral.


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## Hello? Kitty (Nov 4, 2009)

shame for this guy with the question, everyone seems to have gone off on a tangent... or gotten 'catty' as my smirking boyfriend lol'd. if you haven't spoken to the old couple then that's obviously your first plan of action. Offer to neuter the cat if it isn't done or they can't afford it (yeah not cool but at least it could help the aggression). OR both you and their neighbour (with the Mercedes P-Class) can go and have a FRIENDLY chat about the cat.

it seems as if the poster stood on some kitty paws by suggesting that keeping a cat indoors is like caging it. we're all entitled to our opinions with this hot chestnut aren't we?


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## Casey76 (Jun 11, 2008)

Hi Gibson. I'm sorry to hear that your little kit is being bullied by another cat.

Personally I would arm myself with a "super soaker" type water gun filled with water and lemon juice, a torch and sit by the door. Then "shoot" the big bully cat when he comes in your garden. The lemon juice/water mix wont hurt him, but it will be unpleasant enough to put him off. Though it might take a few days "shooting" for him to get the message.

In the mean time, make your scaredy-kitty as comfortable as possible. Make sure you have a litter box inside so she doesn't distress herself by defecating/urinating where she knows she shouldn't (though it should be somewhere where your little girl can't get to it). And basically let her make up her own mind if she wants to go back outside again. Sometimes after a scare an indoor/outdoor cat will want to become an indoor cat, even for a while til she gets her confidence back up.

I'm just now treating my cat with antibiotics after he got an abscess under his jaw from being bitten by (probably) one of the other cats in the village. I would never stop him from going outside as I believe that cats benefit from being allowed out in the fresh air to stalk and hunt and climb trees, though I also accept that it may mean more vet trips from scrapping or accidents. (and that is all I'm going to say about indoor/outdoor).

Good luck with your kit, and I hope the big bully cat stays away.


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## Huge2 (Jan 28, 2008)

marie73 said:


> Huge said:
> 
> 
> > Gibson, read what Marie, Allie and Doodlebug said.
> ...


Firstly you're incorrect. Gibson doesn't have any right to do that, and secondly I would never condone taking away someone else's pet just because it was doing what was natural. Ever. If it was wild, yes, but he KNOWS the owners.


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