# Is there always a dominant one?



## cat owner again (Dec 14, 2012)

My mama cat will step away and let her 1 year old (+some) son eat her food, take her place on my lap, the cat tree and runs away from him when he wrestles her. She doesn't seem traumatized but is this bullying? I think the food thing is when they lived on the street and she always let him eat her food. The position seems to be she doesn't want him that close to her. The runnning away is obvious - he wants to smother her and wraps his paws around her neck. I stop him when I am around with voice. Is it normal to have a dominant one? Is it always the male?


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## dweamgoil (Feb 3, 2010)

I have 4 cats and there is definitely a pecking order. Azalia is the alpha, Egypt is her beta and Sasha is the Omega. Lacey falls somewhere in the middle. I don't think it has to do that much with gender, but the individual cat's temperament and their age. Sasha is also the youngest of the bunch so he has 3 moms in the house. Egypt is always testing the waters and bullies everyone but Azalia. She's not malicious about it; she just plays very hard, and sometimes gets carried away. I call her my little roughneck, but she was a street kitty so it makes sense for her to be a bit more aggressive in the activity department.

If the cats are not hurting each other (no fur is flying and no blood is being shed), I would just let them sort things out on their own. Sometimes it takes several months for them to agree to disagree and just get along.


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## catloverami (Jul 5, 2010)

Usually, but not always. When I was breeding my most dominant cat was a female brown patched tabby=a torbie. When other cats got into a scuffle she would act like a policeman and get in the middle of it and box everyone's ears. Any fights were always broken up by her. When she was retired to a new home, a blue torbie took over her job. Over many years of breeding it was usually a female that was the alpha cat. All my stud cats were really suckie-babies! and I only kept one stud at a time.


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## Weezle (Mar 3, 2013)

I had two males until a few months ago. Gabby was the Alpha and Frankie was his right hand man and protector. Then we added Lola. She is now challenging Gabby for dominance so things are all up in the air. Needless to say, the squirt bottle has been used a lot lately o break up the hissing biting brawls. It seems there is always an alpha, but I don't think they are always male. It depends on personality. 


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## JungliBillis (Mar 20, 2013)

I have a male and a female, pretty much same age though not from same litter. Male is a bit more dominant, but they play together a lot, so I don't necessarily see him bossing the girl around too much. He's just a bit more strong willed.


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## EmmaFay (Nov 27, 2012)

Heh, there's definitely a dominant one in my house 
Tiny six pound kitten for the win.
She shoves my older cat off his food, uses his litterbox, and launches full-scale play attacks on him whenever she gets bored. They used to fight a bit, in the first couple months, but doesn't happen too much anymore. The problem was that she was VERY determined to be alpha, so every now and then she would give him a swat to put him in his place. Only thing is, he's about 3x her size, so he would always react with "But....but I'm bigger than you!" Since neither was willing to back off, there'd be a bit of a scuffle, with her acting aggressive and him acting a bit bemused. He never had his ears back, he just stood his ground while she spat.
Alas, he has now accepted tiny kitten as his lord and master :3 Now I find them grooming each other in cat-piles, so all is well


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## svenden (Apr 9, 2013)

I have two male litter mates. I'd say Fanty is the leader, and Mingo the follower. Not sure dominant is the right term, though. That kind of depends.

When it comes to cuddles, Fanty definitely hordes, and Mingo lets him. Often when I get Mingo on my lap, before long Fanty will jump up and without any hesitation, Mingo will relocate to a nearby spot.

But when it comes to food, Mingo doesn't always put up with Fanty's hoarding, and will hiss him away. Other times they share just fine.

And when they rumble (my term for play-fighting), it can be either of them that instigates, and either that dominates physically.

So I don't think of Fanty so much as dominant. I think Mingo is more passive, though. I actually try to behave like him in heated situations. He's shown me that avoiding the conflict is usually the better course to take!


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## cat owner again (Dec 14, 2012)

Well they don't hate each other but I hate to see some of the behavior. Just now, mama had top of the cat tree, and son comes in and tried to dethrone her. She was sleeping peacefully. He jumps on her and she was mad, hissing and baring teeth. I yelled at him and he left the room roaming around and I thought he would sleep on my bed or something. Nope when I walked out of the room, he had the top spot and she was on a tall cabinet looking pretty disappointed (if that is possible.) Then she left and went outside. So is this what cats have to put up with?


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## Janz (Mar 26, 2012)

I have two male cats. The older cat lets the younger one eat his food and take his sleeping spot most of the time. But eventually it is too much and he puts the younger one in his place. The younger cat seems dominant until I have to rescue him from under the bed. Unless they are really fighting I would let them work it out. But I, personally, would not allow one cat to bully the other cat off my lap. You should be the dominant creature in the house.


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## cat owner again (Dec 14, 2012)

I don't let the male get my lap but he will lay next to my lap and she doesn't feel comfortable and leaves. Probably because she doesn't want to have to worry about him jumping her. I don't think she can win over him. He is big, strong and intent.


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## Blakeney Green (Jan 15, 2013)

Neither of my cats is clearly dominant over the other one, although I think Maisie may have the slight edge over Zephyr if it really came down to it. I have two males who are close in age.


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## Cat Lover Lennie (Jan 7, 2013)

I have 4 furballs, 2 girls and 2 boys. My 11yr old, Rambo, WAS the quietly assertive king. 7 yr. old Katy-Did deferred to his every wish. Never a squabble...just 2 separate individuals, the only link being me. 
Then I really shook the household up by bringing "new blood" in the form of 6 wk old littermates, Samson and Delilah. When they were tiny, Katy-did was really hissy and bossy...but they ignored her. All of a sudden Samson was the same size as Katy and took over as Alpha...and don't question it! He does not look for trouble but if Katy tries to express her opinion he will not back down. They sit there and keep popping each other with their paws. Sometimes they start rolling around "fighting, lol". Katy is a loud mouth. She even makes a grunting sound when she jumps off the bed or whatever...always has. If she is laying beside me and I lean down and blow on her back, she yells. It's so funny. She yells about everything and tells me VERY long stories complete with inflections! Anyway, Katy always leaves any close encounter with Samson hissing and yelling all the way. So now Katie is third. Little Lilah is Ms. Submissive. She is just tiny compared to everyone else. But she doesn't mind. She still curls up with the bad-butt brother. They still groom each other and when Samson gets too rough...she walks off. Katy picks on her once in awhile, but she just scoots.


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## Tokkaebi (Feb 5, 2013)

This is something that has been on my mind a lot ever since adopting my cats in July of 2012. They're now in their 9th month, and Biscuit my dilute tortie American Shorthair seems to be regularly dominant, though she's quickest and has the most energy of the three.

They're all from the same litter, but she's little compared to the other two and whose cerebellar hypoplasia wasn't ever as bad as the rest of them. They were the last 3 to be adopted, and I took Biscuit away from the other two first for 2 months, then took in her siblings Bella and Gandalf later, and they didn't even recognize each other,

Gandalf is the only boy and does not like to be picked up, nor scruffed; I do feel an alpha something about him, he's just normally pretty apathetic about things unless he hears a catnip shaker mouse. Or treat bag.

And then there's Bella. She started out very, very timid when she first came to live with me. So skittish, she'd run away if I merely got up from sitting, or if I walked near her. I'd have to turn my back to her, so she would feel comfortable enough to stay put as I walked beside her.

She was getting bullied by Biscuit fairly regularly, but I made sure Biscuit had proper prey to hunt and jump at with toys. Biscuit and Gandalf would play "at her," jump on her, and she'd just want to leave. Now she plays back and can hold her own. I also set Bella on top of their cat structure, I pet her specially, I speak to her a lot, and now she's quite vocal around me and much more confident about her own identity amongst the other cats. If she's at my feet, she'll mew to tell me she's there. She's still the cautious one, the smartest one, the most affectionate, and I'm always working to give her opportunities to come up out of the bushes, so to speak.

She has made a lot of progress and things are actually more equal between the three of them than I think is normal, but the way things are going make me very happy. Before, Bella wouldn't even go up to the collective dish to eat because the other two were there. I would have to pick her up and set her at it, sometimes even feed her by hand. Separate dishes didn't work either, I wanted to integrate the 3 of them together as a family again, so shutting them in different rooms didn't solve my problem. Eventually, she realized her place was with them and not underneath them.

Raising comfortable, confident cats really is the job of a loving parent.


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## sam_pling (Jan 23, 2013)

I have a similar problem. New kitten (male) approx 5.5 months old now, has been with me 6 weeks appears to be jealous of any attention I give to the long standing cat (female). The female is long - haired and a placid nature. The other is oriental and the total opposite. I know he's still young and they'll play chase etc but when it comes to her getting anywhere close to me, he barges in and shoos her off. He seems to be getting rougher each time and it seems rougher than simple play. Of course I don't tolerate it and tell him off and remove him from anywhere close to me. I'm hoping he'll calm a bit after neutering and as he gets older but given the size of him already, he's not going to be a small cat. Any further tips to stop him bullying would be most appreciated.


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## Marcia (Dec 26, 2010)

Our Missy was certainly the dominate one until January. Her little teeny 5 pound self would boss around everyone, including 22 pound Jack......until Lacey showed up. Lacey is quiet but confident and will put Missy in her place with _only a stare_. She has those amazing wolf / Betty Davis style eyes. I had NEVER seen Missy back down to anyone until Lacey showed up!!


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## catloverami (Jul 5, 2010)

At 5.5 mos. his male hormones are starting to flow and he's ready to be neutered _now_. Yes his play will become rougher and more aggressive the longer you delay having him neutered. Early neutering at 2 lbs. of weight or 2mos. of age is becoming more common practice these days.


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## MowMow (Nov 6, 2010)

Yeah, he should absolutely be neutered asap.

MowMow rules all of us with an iron paw. He even bosses me around constantly. He's slow to anger but when he does...run.

On numerous occasions, Book has staged a rebellion and tried to overthrow the current regime but each time he's been beaten back into submission. When it's all over and I come out of hiding, things are back to normal....


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## sam_pling (Jan 23, 2013)

Yeah.. he'll be neutered in the next couple of weeks. The standard where I come from (UK) was always 6 months onwards and I think that is still standard where I live now (UAE). Rules may have changed in the 10 years plus since I had to take a male kitten for the op. Let's see how we get on a month or so after neutering.


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## Alpaca (Dec 21, 2009)

Yes I'd say so. I don't interfere in their hierarchy unless things get outta hand. The hierarchy needs to be reinforced from time to time as a reminder. It's just how cats are. 

So if the female alpha roughhouses the larger male, I let them alone unless she gets vicious. Then I step in with a 'NO' and she takes off in a huff.


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## svenden (Apr 9, 2013)

I think we have a tendency to project our feelings onto our cats. Fanty constantly hordes my lap, and while I try not to let him, Mingo gives up so easily its hard to stop it. After years of this I've finally come to the conclusion that Mingo just isn't bothered much by it - clearly not as much as me. He's perfectly content to sit next to me as he is to hang out in my lap.

Whereas, if I were him, I'd be starting all kinds of trouble with Fanty! lol


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## sam_pling (Jan 23, 2013)

Haaa... if I am projecting feelings then I must be a monster  

Mogwai, the little one (male), is an absolute terror at times but to be expected, he's a kitten and an oriental one at that. Thankfully he's adorable in equal measure and though we have a long way to go with discipline, he does make me laugh as he is such a sod. 

Since I posted, Mwnci has been a bit bolder and is actually copying him a bit, especially when it comes to human contact, I don't think she had too much positive contact before me. She'll always be at a disadvantage for as one of her front legs is deformed, broken by her previous owners and left to re-heal at a bizarre angle. (The vet said to leave it as it is). Hence her timid nature. Anyway, let's see what growing up and neutering brings. There is no fur flying so I think it's just part of his growing up.


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## Arianwen (Jun 3, 2012)

I ahve six cats - three female, two male and one hermaphrodite. There isn't a constant dominant one and some of the relationships are quite complex. Oz is a bit on the "fragile" side and the other youngsters are pushier with food so we feed him away from them. Princess Tramp (who has convinced herself that she gave birth to the youngsters) favours him wildly and while she will warn the others off will happily let him steal her food and even groom him while he does it. When Baz had an eye infection she allowed him to do the same but not normally. Under normal circumstances, Baz is the only one who growls over his food - the the girls ignore him completely. Becky is quite small but is prepared to put Baz in his place if he gets too boisterous even though he is way the biggest (not fattest - just big) so I don't think "dominance" is constant nor do I feel it is dependent on sex (or even size in many cases).


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## svenden (Apr 9, 2013)

sam_pling said:


> She'll always be at a disadvantage for as one of her front legs is deformed, broken by her previous owners and left to re-heal at a bizarre angle.


That just broke my heart a little.


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## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

In my house its pretty situational...but Tbh my opinion is no, there usually isn't. I've posted many times on how 'dominance theory' is based on junk science, and is useless. Doubly so on cats, IMO.

In my house there isn't really a 'boss', now that they're all adults. Sure, jitzu has boundaries and will swipe at who ever doesn't respect them...but if someone jumped on my head I'd be ticked to. Woildnt make me dominant when I told them off.

If the boys, or even Jitzu, invades Princess Torri's kingdom they better be on their best manners! It'sr room her safe place, and we let her set the rules...which usually means no other cats. If they are in her room they act very meek and cautious because we let her boss the other cats around. But that's not dominance, its her being territorial. (*note* the only reason I allow this is that she has had extrordinarily low confidence her whole life, and we try to encourage her to be braver when we can. Otherwise this would not be allowed in our house, and we supervise carefully in any case.)

From observing my cats, friends cats, and feral cats my opinion is that most thongs people label as 'dominance' are actually something else. Sure, there are cats who are the boss in certain situations, or maybe all of the time...but I don't believe there usually is a top cat.


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## cat owner again (Dec 14, 2012)

I hope I can resurrect this post. Some days are fine but tonight the son (male) just kept at his mom. She hisses and he waits and then pounces on her again in that darn wrestle hold she can't stand. I chased him away and told him no and then she swatted my on the butt as I walked by. She is still here but other times she runs up and down the house with him chasing and then wants to go out really bad. No blood, no fur, but I just don't see her enjoying this. He goes out all day and still has so much energy at night until he settles down. I play a bit but I am tired too. I work long hours. He is about almost a year and a half. Will he settle down? Is there a mechanical toy that will run all over and wear this guy out?


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## Pushkabounce (Nov 6, 2012)

I'm not sure who is alpha between Oscar and Tinker. Wilson is defiantly at the moment of the pecking order and I think he is happy with that.

How do you tell who is aplha?

It's really mixed..

If Tinker is eating Oscar will push him out of the way and Tinker doesn't speak up, he just walks away.

We are slowly merging the cats together (currently Tinker has upstairs when we are at work and the kittens how downstairs. They are always all together when we are in) and Tinker is now having his dinner downstairs with the kittens. If I am stood around them they don't try to get Tinkers food but if I walk away then Oscar gets right in there.

If Oscar is eating and Wilson goes to eat most of the times Oscar will hiss at Wilson. 

But.. If Tinker is in a gump or doesn't want to play he will hiss or swat at either of the kittens and they respect that and leave him well alone. There has never been a cat fight *touch wood* in my house.

All 3 respect myself and my partner. When we say NO they don't tend to push their luck. Even Oscar is starting to get the jist of the meaning (hurray!)

So yeah.. what things should I look out for to see who is the alpha out of my little trio?


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## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

OP, this isn't 'dominance'. It's a kitten who wants to play and is being rude. (Yes, at 1 1/2 he is still going to be a kitten in some ways. He isn't fully mentally mature and this is one way that expresses.)

My suggestion is you find something that deters him (squirt bottle, empty pop can with pennies in it, ect) and when he starts 'hunting' his mum you use the deterrent to stop him. If you use a can of pennies shake it, don't throw it. The noise will be loud enough to startle him out of the bad behavior, and then YOU jump in and given him something appropriate to do. EVERY TIME.

I am a firm believer that there is no 'alpha' the way most people think about it (thanks Caesar Milan...*grumbles and scowls*

There may be a temporary boss cat, and in some cases it might be more permanent than others, but my view (and my experience) is that an easy 90% of behaviors that we call 'dominance' are just someone being grumpy, not having enough play time, ect. Often the 'dominant' cat is the oldest in the home, or the most mentally mature. IMO this is because THEY HAVE MORE EXPERIENCE. 

Saying they 'must be dominant' is like saying that your Mom is obviously dominant, because you listen to her and she sometimes yells at you, so she's the boss. Right? When in fact mom's usually yell at their kids to keep them out of harms way (physical or mental), and to communicate. Rarely to push them around purely for the sake of pushing them around.

I'm well aware that there are cases where people fight for dominance in the wolf pack sense of the word...but it's not nearly as common as some people would like to believe, and I, personally, work to keep those people and those type of disagreements outside of my day to day experience.

Cats don't like pushy people/cats anymore than we do. Dominance, the way we're used to it, is simply using your influence to get your own way. A happy cat household doesn't always have that sort of a personality.

*sigh* Sorry for the rant. Dominance is one of those things that just BUGS me!


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## 3furbabies (Dec 7, 2011)

In my house the pecking order changed since I got them all. When I first got my youngest, she was the only cat until I added her cage mate from the shelter 2 weeks later. Little Sophie was the boss. Then when they were 10 months old I added my eldest cat Sasha (an ex show cat/breeder). Sasha thought she was big momma still so she bossed the other cats around. Anna the middle cat didn't like that and started challenging her. This went on for sometime. Sasha the momma eventually won. Then we moved into a new house last summer and the order changed again. Sasha became very submissive to the other cats and lets them push her around for the most part. Sophie is somewhere In the middle and Anna is now on top. I think it had to do with Anna becoming very bonded to me. Both her and Sasha are attached to me a lot and Anna gets jealous anytime Sasha tries to seek my attention when Anna is beside/on me.


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## LaurulFeatherCat (Sep 16, 2011)

When one has a larger number of cats there are two heirarchies, one in the males and one in the females. When the alpha female and the alpha male interact, it depends on what the issue is who will be dominant. If it is discipline of a younger, lower ranked cat, it is the female; if it is food or mating, it is the male. I always allow my cats to work out their own politics and interfere only when physical harm occurs. However, I reserve myself as the ultimate top cat and enforce that rank with using their vocalizations (hiss of displeasure, yowl of anger, keen of displeasure). I have never had to do more than tap a disobeying cat on the top of the head gently with a finger (like a mom cat does to a kitten) to get an aggressive for assertive cat to obey my decision as top cat. It makes it much easier to organize thirteen cats and keep peace.

The fact your tom, who is still unneutered, is tackling your female and thumping her on the floor, indicates he is a fully sexed tom who intends to bully the female into mating submission. Tom cats hold queens down on their back in the weeks before mating season to use their greater weight and strength to argue their dominance and strength are superior to other toms and therefore she should mate with him. Immediate desexing surgery should solve your major aggression problem within two months of his surgery. After desexing the male should be less aggressive and the female will then negotiate a different friendship with him. Right now, she has to react to his pheromones which he produces as an in tact tom and behave like a female is required to behave.


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## cat owner again (Dec 14, 2012)

My male and his mom were neutered as soon as I trapped them. He was maybe 4 months old. Since there is plenty of room for her to hide in my house and she doesn't act terrorized, I guess it is ok. I think he just has too much energy at times even though he gets to go outside all day. I do tell him no and he stops but then will start right up again. It's not all the time but I guess I just don't like to see it at all. They are excluded from my bedroom and so are in the house alone at night and in the morning they touch noses and seem fine. Maybe he has sexual feelings although neutered?


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## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

Nope. He's neutered, and it was done before he reached maturity. He might mount something because it's fun...but it's unlikely to be another cat. My Doran has a 'special blanket' he hauls around sometimes.

As far as the business of hierarchies goes I think I've made my position very clear. In my house, there simply isn't one. I have four cats, and I've never seen anything even resembling a 'battle for dominance'.

I think the idea that to communicate your displeasure to your cats you need to 'communicate in their language' is...not accurate. Laurel, your cats are fully aware of the fact that you aren't a cat; even more so than most because they have so many other ACTUAL cats to compare with. When I interact with my cats I feel no need to use their language. I could never be anything approaching fluent, and in any case it's not like I'd be fooling them. They know I'm a person, so I communicate to them like I'm a human. They understand, because I've taught them what I mean, and they don't look at me like I'm nuts. (that's what they do when I meow at them, cause it's funny to see the 'WTF' look on their faces)*shrugs*

Since this 'mating behavior' theory is clearly wrong - the kitten was neutered at a young age - I'm still sticking with that he hasn't yet learned how to properly interact with your female. OP you need to seperate them when you aren't there to supervise, or he'll just keep doing this same behavior.

When my boys used to chase one of the girls the outcome partly depended on who they were chasing. The boys used to regularly have scratches on their nose from when they pushed Jitzu just a little too far, and I was completely fine with that. She can tell them off just fine.

If they chased Torri I always had to step in because she's too much of a wimpy to defend herself. This is what you need to do, consistently.

Forget the dominance stuff, and make a point of redirecting his attention to other things. A toy he can chase or wrestle would work well.


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