# Potty issue



## D&L (Nov 22, 2009)

As I said in a previous post Daisy has constipation issues.
The Doctor put her on lactulose but Daisy didn't like it so at the doctor's suggestion I switched her to benefiber. I was told to start her out on 1/4 teaspoon twice a day. Knowing how Daisy is and her not wanting to go until she can't not go I'm giving her half again as much but this does not seem to be working. 
Daisy is on a almost all canned diet of wellness turkey (her favorite), she get a tablespoon for breakfast when I make my coffee and then I leave her another before I leave for work a long with a 1/4 a cup of kibble to nipple on when I'm at work. when I get home from work she get a nother tablespoon for dinner and then some in her dish as her night time snack on. I am putting just under 1/8 of a teaspoon in each dish and none of the food is left when I get home or up in the morning but she isn't doing the deed as it were.
she doesn't like her food very soupy so I can't put to much water in it other wise she leaves it until I clean out the dish and give her the food the way she likes it.

Any idea's on whether I should increase her fiber or not, it's only been a week since she was cleaned out by the Vet and she has gone some in the box just not enough to be once a day. 

I'm just afraid she will get all backed up again  . I really do not want her to have to be cleaned out by the vet once a month, mostly because it can't be fun for her regardless of whether the knock her out for it or not.


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## laurief (Jun 22, 2008)

I would NOT increase the fiber beyond the vet's prescribed amount or it may just make matters worse for Daisy. Instead, I would start mixing 1/8 tsp of Miralax into her canned food twice a day. Miralax is an osmotic laxative like Lactulose. It retains water in the stool, making it softer and easier to pass. Unlike Lactulose, however, Miralax is a tasteless powder that Daisy won't even notice in her food. And it can be purchased OTC at any drug store. It is VERY effective at softening the stool. It is also a dose-to-effect med, meaning that you can safely adjust the dose to achieve the desired stool consistency.

You can read all about Miralax and other constipation remedies here:

http://www.felinecrf.org/treatments.htm#constipation

Laurie


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## D&L (Nov 22, 2009)

Laurief
I asked the vet about miralax and she told me to go with benefiber because she doesn't know what is in miralax. The vet did tell me I to increase the benefiber until Daisy is doing her business daily.
I checked the miralax out when I was at the store to see make sure there was no sugar in it but the bottle didn't say if there was or not. Do you happen to know? Have you used miralax for a cat before?
My main concern is Daisy, I really don't want to see her in pain again.
Thanks for the help.


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## laurief (Jun 22, 2008)

If you will read the link I provided in my earlier response, I think it will set your mind at ease about Miralax. You could even print it out and take it to your vet for review. Miralax is commonly used in the CRF caretaker community for our constipated cats. I've been giving it to my 20+ yr old CRF, hyperT, and hyperPTH cat, Billy, twice daily for as long as it's been available OTC, and he hasn't suffered a single constipation since I started using it.

As you will also read at that link, fiber needs to be administered in small doses or it can bind up in the cat and make constipation worse, esp. if the cat isn't drinking generous amounts of water. Be careful about adding too much fiber to your cat's diet, or you may make matters worse for her.

Laurie


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## catlady2010 (Feb 4, 2010)

My cat had constipation issues and my vet recommended mineral oil.


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## hoofmaiden (Sep 28, 2009)

I'm curious about this . . . Have you tried getting rid of ALL the dry food, instead of leaving it available for her to "nibble" on? I would get rid of the dry food, feed her canned 2X a day, perhaps adding a bit of warm water to it, and get her off the fibre. Cats have a truly neglible need for fibre, and IMO it's not a good fix. Fix the DIET first.

Also, how do you know she's constipated? How often does she go? Does she seem to strain to go?


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## D&L (Nov 22, 2009)

Lauief, I will read your link tonight when I get home from work, thank you for all your help.

catlady, mineral oil is a patrolem product that coats the digestive system and prevents absorption of the food I got a 20 minute leachter about how bad it is for animals and humans from the vet do not use it, if your vet suggested it to you I would find a new vet.

hoofmaiden, I found out she is constipated because there was no poo in the box that could have been hers, we did an x-ray, she was so blocked up the vet had to manually unblock her. She should go poo every day but it's more like twice a week, yes she strains. I only leave her 1/4 of a cup of kibble to nibble on and that lasts her two or three days. I have tried mixing water in with her food but she doesn't eat the food when there is water in it. She gets canned Wellness turkey and she seems to like it.
The vet we go to deals just with cats and tries a holistic approach first, the the first thing she had me do when I brought Daisy in was to change her diet. She was on the evil science diet KD, but has been off that for about two months.


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## laurief (Jun 22, 2008)

Here's another link for you. This is a brand new site written by a member of the CRF Support mailing list to address the complexities of feline constipation:

http://www.felineconstipation.org/introduction.html

It's quite a bit more technical that the other site I linked earlier, but the information is also a lot more comprehensive. It will provide you with even more information on Miralax and other constipation treatments.

Laurie


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## hoofmaiden (Sep 28, 2009)

ANY amount of dry food will SUCK MOISTURE out of the GI tract. Cats are descended from desert dwellers and will NOT make up by drinking what they fail to get in their food. Cats do not need to "snack," as they are not grazing animals.

I would get rid of the dry food ASAP and feed her 2-3X a day canned only. More than likely the problem will resolve simply by doing that.


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## laurief (Jun 22, 2008)

Elizabeth is quite right about the fluid issue and its connection to constipation, esp. in CRF cats. CRF cats have a difficult time utilizing fluids properly because of the diminished kidney function. This is one reason why constipation is such a common problem for them. It's also why at-home subQ fluid administration is the cornerstone of CRF management for many afflicted cats. If you can increase your cat's fluid intake, either orally or subQ, that will help keep the GI tract lubricated and the stool more easily passed. Kibble does, indeed, absorb fluid out of the GI tract, making constipation more likely. For that reason, canned food is a much better option for CRF cats.

That said, the best foods for CRF cats are the foods that they will eat, since lack of appetite is a serious problem for many CRF cats. If your cat will eat canned food, then I recommend you feed canned food exclusively for as long as possible. If she reaches a point where all she wants to eat is kibble, then kibble is what you'll need to feed. If she is eating kibble, however, you will need to make sure that she is taking in enough fluid to process it (which clearly she is not doing now since she has a problem with constipation). In that case, you should discuss subQ fluid administration with your vet, if you're not already giving subQs at home.

I do disagree with Elizabeth on one point, however. CRF cats are, indeed, "grazers". Because of their diminished appetites, and because of their diminished kidney function, they do best when fed small meals throughout the day and evening. I would be doubling or tripling the amount of canned food you're offering at each meal, esp. before you leave for work or go to bed. Your CRF cat should have food available all day and all night, if possible, and canned food will remain edible for a number of hours before it loses its taste appeal.

Laurie


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## D&L (Nov 22, 2009)

I was unaware of the sucking fluids that kibble does, Daisy will get no more kibble from her on.

Laurie, right now Daisy gets about two tablespoons in the morning right after I get up and when I get home from work, then before I leave for work and right before I go to bed she gets another tablespoon. She never eats it all the main meals in one sitting so when I add her snacking food I add it to what is left, nothing sits uneaten for more than three hours before more gets added to it with the exception of while I am at work.
I am at work during the day for about 10 to 11 hours, so I try to leave more in the morning before I leave than I do at night before bed.
Do you lady's think I am underfeeding her? She does need to loss weight but I don't want her to starve.

I have not had a chance to check her box for a few day (three or four), and when I just cleaned it out there was no Daisy poo, should I be worried enough to have the vet take another x-ray?


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## laurief (Jun 22, 2008)

D&L said:


> I was unaware of the sucking fluids that kibble does, Daisy will get no more kibble from her on.


That's a very good dietary decision and one from which I'm sure Daisy will benefit. If you've ever tried to soften kibble by soaking it in water, you know how much liquid it will soak up. It does the same thing in the cat's gut, and that's definitely not good for a cat with constipation problems.



> Do you lady's think I am underfeeding her? She does need to loss weight but I don't want her to starve.


Generally speaking, a 10 lb cat in good flesh (not too fat or too skinny) needs approx. 6 oz of canned food a day to maintain weight. Of course that varies somewhat between individual cats depending on their metabolisms and activity levels. When my cats were fat, I weighed them every two weeks and adjusted their food portions to achieve weight loss of between .2-.4 lb every two weeks. If a cat lost more than .4 lb in two weeks, I increased the food portions a little. If the cat lost less than .2 lb in two weeks, I decreased food portions a little. That way they maintained slow, steady, safe weight loss until optimal weights were achieved.

I don't think I'd be inclined to put a CRF cat on a diet, though, unless she was morbidly obese. CRF cats have a very difficult time maintaining weight as the disease progresses, and it would be beneficial (IMHO) to have a weight "cushion" before things start to go downhill. Of course this is something you should discuss with your vet, because if your cat is at an unhealthy weight, then weight loss may be necessary for optimal health at this stage.



> I have not had a chance to check her box for a few day (three or four), and when I just cleaned it out there was no Daisy poo, should I be worried enough to have the vet take another x-ray?


If she's eating well and not appearing to be in any discomfort, my guess is that she's eliminating outside of the litterbox where you just haven't found it yet. HOWEVER, when caring for a cat with a known constipation problem, you should REALLY be monitoring her stool output on a daily basis - not every 3-4 days. Enemas and manual extraction are very hard on a cat's system, so you don't want to put her through that again if it can be avoided. Did you read the links I provided about constipation and its preventions?

Laurie


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## hoofmaiden (Sep 28, 2009)

laurief said:


> I do disagree with Elizabeth on one point, however. CRF cats are, indeed, "grazers". Because of their diminished appetites, and because of their diminished kidney function, they do best when fed small meals throughout the day and evening. I would be doubling or tripling the amount of canned food you're offering at each meal, esp. before you leave for work or go to bed. Your CRF cat should have food available all day and all night, if possible, and canned food will remain edible for a number of hours before it loses its taste appeal.


I agree that CRF cats should be fed more often, but I would do that via meal feeding. Using an auto feeder will allow you to feed several meals a day and keep them fresh (via the ice pack that goes in the auto feeder). Feeding in the a.m. before work, p.m. when you get home from work, and before bedtime, and then setting the auto feeder to feed 1-2 additional meals when you're at work, would work well IMO.

I must have missed that this was a CRF cat . . . I don't see that in the OP but maybe it was elsewhere. Sorry about that! One of the things I have found w/ CRF cats is that their appetite decreases when they are free-fed (this is true w/ all cats for obvious reasons, but esp. so w/ CRF cats whose disease gives them nausea). Meal-feeding tends to stimulate the appetite at least a bit by making them a little hungry.

Link to autofeeder info--this one feeds 2 meals:
http://www.amazon.com/Cat-Mate-C20-Auto ... 626&sr=8-1


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## D&L (Nov 22, 2009)

laurief said:


> Generally speaking, a 10 lb cat in good flesh (not too fat or too skinny) needs approx. 6 oz of canned food a day to maintain weight. Of course that varies somewhat between individual cats depending on their metabolisms and activity levels. When my cats were fat, I weighed them every two weeks and adjusted their food portions to achieve weight loss of between .2-.4 lb every two weeks.


When I got her she weighted in at 17lbs, over a year she lost 4lbs, now she is down to a little over 11lbs and still looks like a big girl. She has really tiny paws and very skinny tail, I think if I had gotten her when she weighted her ideal weight she would be about a 7 pound cat but I have no intent on making her loss that much weight unless the vet tells me she needs to which I don't see happening.



laurief said:


> I don't think I'd be inclined to put a CRF cat on a diet, though, unless she was morbidly obese. CRF cats have a very difficult time maintaining weight as the disease progresses, and it would be beneficial (IMHO) to have a weight "cushion" before things start to go downhill. Of course this is something you should discuss with your vet, because if your cat is at an unhealthy weight, then weight loss may be necessary for optimal health at this stage.


Because of her knees, hips and arthritis issues the vet want to see her lose two more pounds. 
Her kidney issues are still in the early stages from what the vet told me. I don't know where I put her test results or I would share them with you.



laurief said:


> If she's eating well and not appearing to be in any discomfort, my guess is that she's eliminating outside of the litter box where you just haven't found it yet. HOWEVER, when caring for a cat with a known constipation problem, you should REALLY be monitoring her stool output on a daily basis - not every 3-4 days. Enemas and manual extraction are very hard on a cat's system, so you don't want to put her through that again if it can be avoided. Did you read the links I provided about constipation and its preventions?
> Laurie


I'm thinking she is going into the crawl space under the landing, I have a hard time getting there, but it will be getting cleaned out this weekend and blocked up. She is still acting and being her normal loving self, the I want your attention all the time cat I know and love.
I work and go to school full time, I try to clean the box everyday but I honestly run out of time or remember to clean it when I'm on my way out the door. Not excuses just being honest, the three boxes do get cleaned out at least twice a week, sometime more.


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## D&L (Nov 22, 2009)

hoofmaiden said:


> I agree that CRF cats should be fed more often, but I would do that via meal feeding. Using an auto feeder will allow you to feed several meals a day and keep them fresh (via the ice pack that goes in the auto feeder). Feeding in the a.m. before work, p.m. when you get home from work, and before bedtime, and then setting the auto feeder to feed 1-2 additional meals when you're at work, would work well IMO.


I have thought about the auto feeder, my issue with it is that I have a 11 month old(Marie) who will eat anything food left uneaten and Daisy or Leo don't eat everything right a way they save some for later. I'm getting Marie on a schedule but I'm unsure about how to get her to eat only her food.



hoofmaiden said:


> I must have missed that this was a CRF cat . . . I don't see that in the OP but maybe it was elsewhere. Sorry about that! One of the things I have found w/ CRF cats is that their appetite decreases when they are free-fed (this is true w/ all cats for obvious reasons, but esp. so w/ CRF cats whose disease gives them nausea). Meal-feeding tends to stimulate the appetite at least a bit by making them a little hungry.


 It is in a previous post.


Laurie I forgot to include in my last post Daisy is not active, her only activity is get on/off the couch, and bed; going to the basement to use the box, the main floor for food and water and upstairs to bed. A flight of stairs in my house is max 6 steps, from the basement it's up 5 steps to landing, up 6 to main floor, and up 5 to bedroom.


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## D&L (Nov 22, 2009)

I checked out the auto feeders but they are all some form of plastic.
I'm not sure I want to start using plastic feeding dishes.


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