# Training tips for the highly intelligent very stubborn cat!



## NosyKitty (Feb 3, 2010)

I have found that the more intelligent an animal is, the more trouble they are lol. This is so for my cat Ninja, who is a Gemini like me and therefore very stubborn, curious about everything and gets bored easily. I do have quite a bit of animal training experience and have been firmly and consistently correcting him since he was little, but nothing seems to indefinitely work on Ninja. There are two main issues I would like some help with:

*1. He knows not to jump on the counters and tables or play with certain things, and he's good about not doing so most of the time. But, if something in particular interests him, he "forgets" that he's not supposed to be doing that and does it anyway.* For example, if I open the window above the kitchen sink, he hears the birds chirping and HAS to get up there. I can understand this, and would love for him to be able to watch the birds. (Not to mention how cute it is to see him standing on his hind legs straddling the sink and his front feet up on the window sill, ears all perked forward like something extremely important is happening lol.) But the other members of the household do not appreciate is his cute fuzzy litter-box feet like I do . 
And sometimes he is just a jerk, like EVERY morning he wakes up and starts chewing and playing with the beaded tassels on my curtains and EVERY time I say NO/scchhtt!" and squirt him with the spray bottle. He understands what "No" and the "scchtt!" sound means but does not always respond.

I usually squirt him with a water spray bottle and say "NO/scchtt!" loudly/sharply to correct him. This works perfectly when he is squirted but sometimes he'll just wait till I leave then go about doing what he wants again. And I don't always have the water bottle on me to immediately correct him. 
For the counters I have used the clear packing tape upside down. This was very amusing to me(not so much to him heh), and does work for a while, until he finds a different way around the tape. I don't think he responds to things like the citrus smell or "stay away" sprays.
Ninja is a very intelligent and confident cat. He is not skittish or scared of loud noises. If I yell or make any loud noise he just looks up at me like "what?"


*2. He also is very playful but tends to get a little carried away with the biting.* He loves to play a game of tag too, but sometimes instead of just running then chasing, he'll run after my leg, grab on with his strong little arms and bite. I have to squirt him for this or drag him around on my leg. "No/scchhtt!" doesn't usually work.
He was quite young when I adopted him (5 weeks) and raised for a while with dogs. I understand that kittens who don't fully experience the "ouch that hurts" thing when growing up and play fighting with their siblings can result in adult biters. Not to mention learning to play rough with the big dogs.
For this I try to play with him and get him to chase the feather thing to keep any "frustrated energy" levels down. When he starts to play/bite rough I say "No/schhtt!" and then ignore him for a while and/or use the feather toy instead of my hand. But of course he insists on chasing me down and jump attacking me. This is one of the reasons I named him Ninja - he's very sneaky and stealthy and will jump attack out of no where when you least expect and all you see is a quick black blur LOL. His whole personality couldn't make me smile more, but he is just too rough sometimes (especially for the other people in the house) and will not take no for an answer when he is in play mode.

Sorry, I know this is long but any advice, tips, or more advanced training techniques would really be appreciated.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

I'm sorry. Really I am. You left me NO CHOICE at all. I absolutely have to, must and am *driven* to give you this reply:

Sorry, you're just scchhttt outta luck. :mrgreen: 

Come on, wasn't that _BRILLIANT_?! :lol: 


Actually, it sounds like Ninja is our Floofy's long-lost cousin. Floof is The First Cat *I* have ever been around where *I* am an insignificant factor in their life. It doesn't matter what I do, what I say or how I get his attention, he *may* stop and look at me like "What?" if I manage to interrupt him ... however if my *husband* speaks to The Flooter, Floof is *all over* doing whatever my husband said; come up, get down, lets go, move, stop that and come here. Never mind that I am the one who rescued him, feeds treats and cleans litterboxes, the sun/moon set on my husband, as far as Floofy is concerned.
So, it looks like I am also scchhtt outta luck, too. *_le sigh_*

I may have some tips about how to help redirect his energy, but I'll need to come back later and post them, Ninja really does sound like he has an awesome purrsonality. 
h


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## NosyKitty (Feb 3, 2010)

Well scchhtt! I guess I should have seen that one coming lol. Thanks. 

Ninja, aside from those issues, is a very good, well-behaved, loving, sweet as can be cat. He's by far the best and most in-tune to me - and me to him cat I've ever had..except for being an "command-goes-in-one-ear-and-out-the-other" brat sometimes lol. Everyone says he takes after me because I am the exact same way lol.
I am the only one in this house who he listens to and will take orders from. So hopefully there is some respect going on there. But I also used to train dogs and I know there can be a big difference in results when different tones are used like asking, "Hey Rover, will you get off the couch?" will often get that "What?" look but before you can finish saying, "Rover! Get down now!" he's off the couch and sitting in front of you, looking up, waiting for the next command.

Of course cats do not 'live' for acceptance or to serve their people. Even though they love us and know we are family, they still probably consider themselves more of an equal. I can understand this, but there has to be something else I can do without having to rely on the spray bottle every time. Plus this isn't making my animal training career look very good either!


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

Just caught Cinderella opening this thread. She thought "training tips for the highly intelligent" meant tips for how she can better train her staff. 8O


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

Warning: Long Post Ahead!



NosyKitty said:


> ...this isn't making my animal training career look very good either!


Yeah, I feel for you. Kitties are sort of known for this sort of thing. :wink 

To address the issues you are having with him:
Well  you really are kinda scchhtt outta luck. Because he's a cat and goverened by instincts. Open windows, high places and dangly things are *going* to attract him and he cannot help that. His instinctual urge to hunt, and practice survival/hunting moves in play, will express themselves in various ways that can annoy us and cause damage to our things. The best we can do is adjust ourselves to living with an "indoor tiger". 

I have removed or secured all special and breakable items to safeguard them from our kitties and accidental damage.
The kitchen counter = lost cause. They may not do it when you are standing right there, but you cannot be sure what they are doing when you are *not* there. My solution is to keep the counters uninteresting. NO food or things to play with, EVER. If they ever *do* find anything of interest up there, they will remember and want to keep checking to see if it is back, or if something else is interesting.
Clorox wipes are your family's friend. I give all food-prep/serving surfaces a quick wipe-down before I begin. It is simply much easier to do that, rather than stress about what the cat is doing, has done or might do. Face it, you just don't *know* whether they have or haven't been up there so it is just a good habit to get into when preparing/serving food with pets in the home.
I have used the packing tape on poster-board because it covers a wide area and can easily be removed for food-prep, but it *is* a bother and looks terrible. I think it is less stress to just keep the counters clear and do a quick wipe with a cleaner, sanitizer, anti-bacterial something-or-other.
Can you give him a window-perch with interesting things to watch *away* from the kitchen sink?

Playing rough. How old is he? The major problem with juvenile cats’ play-drive, is they are governed by instinct.
In the wild, juvenile kittens are kicked out of the litter and care of the Mother-cat because she is usually pregnant and needs to protect and defend her territory and food/shelter resources for herself and her newest litter about to be born. The juvenile litter now must scatter and fend-for-themselves. Juvenile cats have a difficult time surviving this period of their lives because if they do not become independent, seek out a territory that will provide them with food/shelter resources and successfully *defend* it from intruders, they will die. Their instinct does not understand that we will provide all their needs and they do not need to secure and defend resources, which we usually (_and I feel, mistakenly_) interpret as 'playing roughly'. 

I do feel his up-bringing and possibly young age are making him a little difficult to handle right now. He is a young male cat, feeling his oats, about the age of juvenile cats who have to "do-or-die" and he is simply obeying instinct...but he is 'taking it out' on his new family. You have the right idea of stopping play/attention when he gets rough. You need to make the right thing easy and the wrong thing difficult. When our kitties want to play rough and "catch" me, I let them. But then _I_ catch _them_. :twisted: 
I restrain them and hold them in my arms until they have decided that catching me *really* isn't fun because I'm not acting like 'prey' that is trying to get away ... and they will walk away from me when I set them down to find something else to play with. If they continue to try to 'catch' me, I continue to catch and restrain. If they are getting more wound up instead of abandoning their idea of catching me and refusing to play/wrestle with toys I offer them, I'll catch/restrain and carry them to a boring room (_bathroom_) to spend 10-15min alone to try to change their mind-set.

I think he's just trying to play, but since he didn't grow up with his littermates he didn't learn how to control his sharp-bits, by biting and being bitten in return, by littermates. 
There are some things you can do to change his behavior. 
Cry out: Ouch! Dangit, that HURTS! 
Let him *hear* that he has hurt you. It can sometimes be used as a 'startle-factor' and can sometimes dissuade a young cat from further rough play. Then ignore him. No petting, no attention, no nothing. _You hurt me, I don't want to play with you._ When they keep trying to 'play' is when I'll give them a time-out alone in the boring room. Just don't forget he's in there!

When he bites your hand, push it into him. Kitties expect their 'prey' or 'adversary' to try to escape, which makes the game FUN when he practices his "mad skillz" of hunting and fighting to bite, hold and restrain his target from escaping! So, unsettle him and NOT act like prey. :twisted: Act like an aggressive predator. PUSH your bitten part towards him. Not slow and gentle, push your hand/wrist/whatever INTO his mouth and try to push him backwards or even OVER with your action. You want to change his attitude from one of "Oh, great fun, I'm catching them!" to "OMG, this thing is trying to GET me, I better protect myself and LEAVE!" Combine it with an "Ouch, you booger!" yell, for added effect. 

When attacking your feet, that is a little harder, as it is difficult to control your foot with the same amount of control as you can do your hand when pushing towards him. You can still yell, like a growled out: "Aaaaannnnnnntttt!" noise, or "Ah-ah-AH!" and try stomping your feet and/or clapping your hands together sharply to deter him. If you can lean down and 'catch' him, try to do so. Restrain him and/or carry him to the boring room for a time out. I hope, that if you do enough hand-pushing, he'll give up on trying to catch your feet/legs.

Be vocal. Let him know when his behavior is unacceptable. Also, let him know when he *can* be a rambunctious kitty and give him some rousing good play sessions and Tire. Him. Out! 
I like to use products like DaBird, CatCharmer or a laser light for our cats to chase. Maybe try some small/medium stuffed toys he can grapple, bite and rabbit-kick. 4' tall scratching post. Give him acceptable things he CAN use his sharp bits on, continue to deter him using people, and it shouldn't take long to redirect him. You'll just need to be consistent, eventually he'll get it.
Cats have that selective hearing thing. He hears, he knows, he just picks/chooses what he wants to respond to. Hm. That sounds an awful lot like my husband.








Good luck! Ninja sounds like a great kitty!
h =^..^=


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## NosyKitty (Feb 3, 2010)

Thanks for the response. There are a few good tips I haven't really tried, like pushing my hand against his bite. I can see how this could work. But it seems like this may also entice him to become more aggressive if he thinks I am playing rough and he needs to up his strength to keep up?

By the way, he will be 2 years old on June 19th (which is my birthday too ). He is also half Maine ****, which are known to behave like "big children" well into their adult life.

There are plenty of other windows he can look out of, and I almost always keep my bedroom window open so he can smell the outside air while he sits on the sill. 

I agree on the counters. I actually don't mind him on them so much, it's the other people in the house who don't like it. I actually would prefer to let my animals on counters and tables. We ingest dust, dander and hair all day anyway, what's the big deal about possibly eating a couple hairs? Ninja is an indoor only cat, so he's only spreading around our own germs and not anything potentially harmful from outside. Only we do that 8) But Clorox Wipes ARE my best friend. I use them on everything all the time! Great invention I must say.

You have a good point about the juvenile instinct. I'm not sure if it still applies to Ninja as he is almost 2. Though, I think he is still a big baby lol. His instincts, I think, are not particularly strong. I got him when he was 5 weeks old. I was initially looking for a Bengal mix but he was the only kitten who came right up to me and and plopped down belly up in my lap. And even though he smelled horrible and was the ugliest little scraggly looking kitten (as you can see from my sig lol), I knew he was trusting and would grow to be a very good cat. And he is now one of the most beautiful and trusting cats I've known. He likes all strangers immediately and I imagine, if he had the chance, would befriend the mouse rather than kill it lol.

Anyways, I do "yelp" when he bites hard. It's cute, sometimes he'll look up at me suddenly like, "what's wrong, are you ok?" I can tell he's playing when he sits next to me and stares at me. It's like a dog sitting in front of you staring unblinkingly with a tennis ball in his mouth lol. Then he'll leap at me, bite and run away. This means he wants me to chase him and play tag. But sometimes he really gets carried away and keeps coming up to me and biting hard. Next time he does this, I'll send him to the "corner" for a while and see how that works.

Clapping/stomping won't work for the leg attacking. Nothing phases him, he would just look up for a second and then go back to doing it and it's very hard to detach the little bugger, it's like he just keeps getting sucked back on to my leg! I actually like when he grabs on to my legs, just not when he bites HARD.

Has anyone tried biting their cat back? If this is how learn when they are kittens, wouldn't they still get the idea? Sometimes I am tempted to bite back to make him see how it feels. ?

Anyway, thanks for the help.


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## ChelleBelle (Sep 14, 2009)

Heidi gave good tips, probably the same I would. Your cat does sound lovely and that name is awesome! 

As far as jumping and attacking your legs, my cat did this. At first it was cute... then it got out of hand. *I* knew she was playing, but my father is diabetic and can not take a cat bite on his legs. If she drew blood or hurt him, it could mean a very very very bad wound with his poor circulation. I found using an air spray can (the kind sold at Walmart or Target in the electronic departments for cleaning keyboards) worked wonders with that. When ever I would see her get into "crouch" mode I'd say "NO!" and spray the can. The loud "Shhhhhhhhhhh!" sound would scare the heck out of her and she hated the noise so much she stopped the jumping and biting leg habit pretty quick.

Side note: I'm sure you know, but I have to say it anyways. Don't spray the can at the cat because the air is not safe for them.
'Chelle


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

Hm, as for him being 2yrs old ... I *think* he could still be affected by those urges if he *is* a young-at-heart kitty. You would know best about that, how mature or how juvenile he remains when he plays, it seems like he could be a "big baby" still. I'm not really sure what you could do about his leg attacking. I mean, I laughed when I read about you trying to pull him off and how he would just sort of suck back onto your leg like a magnet, but it really shouldn't be that funny. 
It isn't, it just struck me funny, sorry.  
How about this idea? 
Do you have a pair of old jeans that you don't mind getting a little dirty? Spray the legs at about the height he likes to bite, with a product called "bitter apple" or "stop chew" and when he leaps and bites, it will taste *nasty* and the effect will be immediate: Bite = Nasty-taste and maybe he'll 'train' himself to stop biting?


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## NosyKitty (Feb 3, 2010)

That's ok, I did mean for it to be funny because the image of him being sucked back on to my leg like a magnet is cute and it's exactly what he does. Persistent little thing. 

The bitter apple may be a good idea because I'm sure he probably won't like it and will stop. But like I said, persistent and smart little bugger that he is, would probably wait until the jeans were off and attack again lol. And if I'm not wearing the bitter apple every time that he chooses to bite, the correction won't be consistent and progress might not be made.

I think the air can is also a good idea too, but the "shhhh" sound probably would not phase him and much as actually feeling the puff of air. I agree, probably breathing in the CO2 can not be good, but if I "poofed" him somewhere on his body, I'm sure that would be fine.

So how about the biting idea? I'm not one for using hard physical correction on an animal, but it IS how they communicate to each other by instinct, so it would seem to me that they would naturally relate to it and also understand that the "yelp/squeak" means "Ouch, that hurts, don't do that." Right? Or am I a weirdo for wanting to bite my cat? lol


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

First, no, I don't think you are a weirdo. I think that is a natural reaction. The only problem I have with it is it has a high probability of inciting him to further aggressive action and I do not like the idea of having my face that near a cat's sharp-bits if I am biting him because he is biting me, you know? I think I'd rather grab him by the scruff, that would be similar to a bite and it would be a "controlling" gesture, one that if he responds well to a scruff-hold (goes still) could be effective. Take note, though: I have had several cats who do *not* respond well to a scruff-hold, they get even more defensive and greatly disliked restraint.


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## RachandNito (Nov 21, 2008)

> sometimes he'll just wait till I leave then go about doing what he wants again


That's cats for ya!


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## achillesbogart (Feb 5, 2010)

I got my cat to stay off the counters most of the time by picking her up by the scruff, taking her to the counter and when she makes a motion to put paws on the counter I give her a little rap on the nose. She sulks like a two year old, which is actually pretty funny to see a cat do, but it has worked for the most part. 

Sometimes she will go counter exploring to get my attention if she feels ignored, but that is when I'm asleep and she's bored. I only found out about it because I keep my cast iron lightly greased and one morning there were kitty prints in the pans. She didn't play with or eat anything, she just wanted attention. 

She attacked my feet when she was trying to be the dominant force in the house. I treated it as play for a while giving a little play kick back, but she got more aggressive and vicious to the point I had to fight back. I shooed her off and when she'd come back for the attack I grabbed her scruff and held her down and issued a stern "No." Its the better part of a year and she hasn't attacked my feet. 

If you're going to use physical correction, you want it to be forceful enough to get their attention, be dominant and let them know who's boss. However you don't want to hurt or really scare them, because your cat will just cower in fear at the horrible tyrant that wants to hurt them.


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## Alpaca (Dec 21, 2009)

**LONG POST**

Yes, it IS quite thing thing to own an intelligent and stubborn little kitty...PLUS live in a house where all of the people don't have the same ideas about cats. There are things I personally don't care or even like whereas my family wouldnt. For example, I think it's funny when she launches at my leg and as soon as she touches me, she changes direction so that she lands with her tail facing my leg. Then she just walks off like nothing happened. My mother is terrified at that idea.

So far, nothing really works to stop her of the biting habit. This includes both biting YOUR arm/hand in defense for stopping her from biting objects or biting objects themselves.

1) Pushing bitten part back into her mouth
Works at that moment. Sometimes she stops, sometimes she goes right back and takes a second chomp. But so far, she'll still bite when you do something she doesn't want like restrain her from eating your speaker wires.

2) Grabbing by the scruff and giving a stern NO
Nope...it startles her at that very moment and she MAY stop. But in the long run, again. She's still biting.

3) Citrus smell
No. She isn't the least bit perturbed by it

4) Squirting water
Runs off to clean herself then may come back bite object again

5) Yelping or making 'Ouch' sounds or imitation hissing
Same thing. Temporary fix but hasn't stopped her from the habit

6) Loud clapping and Loud NO
No response. Keeps right on biting your tasty speaker wires.

7) Picking up and saying in her face 'NO'
Either a wide-eyed look and then she'll touch your cheeks with her paws in apology or, totally ignore you and grab her foot/tail and play bites that.

On the whole, she really isn't a bad kitten. She'll usually stop what she's doing at that time if you pick one or more of the above methods. But it's just that she still has this habit and will immediately wrap all four paws around you in a cat bracelet move and bite you if you pick her up when she doesn't want it. But yes, you know she knows what she's not supposed to be doing from her behaviour and reaction. She'll just obey when it suits her. Argh. 

As for jumping on counters. I'm having the same problem. Only way to stop her is physically take her off the table and put her on the floor. She'll usually walk away like nothing happened. There's absolutely nothing on there of interest. She just loves the feel of glass on her body. Weird. See? I've given up on this particular table. It's in the cat room anyways. So at night, I have no idea if she's on it or not. We don't eat there.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w62/jessien217/Animals/Rocky Miu/IMG_02331.jpg


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

There are plastic covered tubes you can run your wires through OR you can spray a product like Bitter Apple or Stop Chew on the wires to deter her immediately and every time she tries to chew them. I use the Bitter Apple on my two houseplants to prevent nibbling. It is very effective.


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## Alpaca (Dec 21, 2009)

Not sure if the OP needs info about the kitten biting objects as well. But yes, I forgot to mention to the OP about the plastic wire cover things and the bitter apple. In my case, I didn't bother because she's not constantly going for the wires non-stop. I'm always watching so I catch her in time to teach her.

My mother also tried another method and it seemed to work for a while before she got bold again. She was going for the wires again and my mother threw a pillow in her general direction, taking care not to hit her. She jumped in the air and then ran off. She didn't touch the wires for a while after that.


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## Chrysalis (Oct 10, 2009)

Two words: Clicker Training. 


My cat is also a clever jerk and clicker training engages his brain and behavior! I know I'm not supposed to train multiple cats at one time, but it is really funny to me when our kitten figures out the trick first and he doesn't get the treat! 

While we've used clicker training to teach sit and high-five and all other cute things, we also use it for the command "down!" 

So... you may not be able to keep your kitty off the counters, but he will learn to listen to you better when you tell him no. It's a bit harder to teach the cats commands on how NOT to do something (i.e. biting) but then again, when you take out the clicker and the treats, their behavior typically switches immediately into training mode and the problem is gone! You could also try teaching things like "stay" and "go to mat" for when he seems to be getting devilish and pouncing you.


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## NosyKitty (Feb 3, 2010)

Yes, using the clicker or other "que" sound can be very useful especially for dogs or cats who are food driven. Unfortunately, Ninja will take a few treats but he isn't driven for them. He doesn't even care much for tuna! What a weird cat. I did teach to him come when called using treats when he was younger, but after he's had enough he doesn't really care anymore. 

Anyone find a particular kind of treat that no cat can resist?


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## Chrysalis (Oct 10, 2009)

My cats will go for generic cat treats for 5-10 minutes, but what REALLY gets them going are tiny pieces of ham or chicken.

It also helps to train mid-afternoon or morning, before they've been fed.


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## NosyKitty (Feb 3, 2010)

Chrysalis said:


> My cats will go for generic cat treats for 5-10 minutes, but what REALLY gets them going are tiny pieces of ham or chicken.
> 
> It also helps to train mid-afternoon or morning, before they've been fed.


Sigh.. Tried it and found out that my goofy cat has no interest what so ever in any kind of carnivorous foods(except his dry food) that he _should_ naturally have interest in. Which is kind of funny because everybody says that my cat takes after me and I am a vegetarian. But *not* the kind who tries to turn my carnivorous animals into vegetarians too heh.

I currently give him the "Greenies" cat treats which he occasionally enjoys. I also try to not buy any food/treats which contain by-products or BHT as the preservative.


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