# Your thoughts and opinions on ORIJEN CAT FOOD



## Maistaff (Dec 4, 2009)

Hello 

I pick up my new kitten tomorrow apart from being very excited i am already considering her future with regards to food.

Presently she is fed on Royal Canin which is a great food but i am not keen on the way they make it and more importantly test it on animals prior to it being released on to the market.

I am consdiering changing her once a little older on to Orijen and i wondered what everyone's opinions of it are.

I know a few people who feed their dogs on the brand and they swear by it saying their dogs have never looked better. Infact i havn't heard a bad thing about the dog food but the cat food i am totally clueless about.

Thank you in advance for any answers 

Julie


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

Orijen doesn't make a wet food, so that's an issue...cats need a diet that is primarily wet. Dry can be used as a supplement, but has the potential to cause a lot of problems down the road if it's the only food used. See the sticky at the top of this forum on why cats need wet food. Good info at these sites as well:

http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?action=library
www.catinfo.org

The best brands of wet food are Wellness Core, Innova EVO imo. In addition regular Wellness, Innova, Natural Balance, Merrick, Holistic Select, Nature's Variety, California Natural and many more are all good, but that should get you started. 

BTW, ingredients like corn, corn gluten meal, rice hulls make Royal Canin a poor food, but not as awful as something like Friskies.


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## hoofmaiden (Sep 28, 2009)

Maistaff said:


> Presently she is fed on Royal Canin which is a great food but i am not keen on the way they make it and more importantly test it on animals prior to it being released on to the market.


Well, it's not a great food, actually. Ingredients are inappropriate for a carnivore. And ALL pet foods are "tested on animals" in that they must go through feeding trials. 

As doodlebug said, dry food is not recommended for cats. Since you clearly want to do the best possible thing for your kitty, please consider switching her to a high-quality grain-free canned food (or going raw).


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## Maistaff (Dec 4, 2009)

Thank you for your replies.

The Royal Canin is the food she has been wheened on to and not wanting to upset her too much what with moving home to mine i want to keep as much as possible the same e.g her diet 

I am a great believer that all animals need meat be it in a wet food format or raw. I have tried feeding raw with my dogs BUT i found that i had no confidence in myself to get the balance right and as i both show and compete my dogs in agility i need to ensure their diet is the best i can offer them.

I have no objections to feeding my kitten raw chicken as i currently feed raw chicken wings to my dogs as an extra source of raw meat and bone. I also feed fish, tuna, mackeral, sardines etc to my dogs so again my kitten will also get fish added to her diet.

The Royal Canin or what ever dry food i chose will be the main part of her diet with my added meats. I will feed the wet food, again she gets Royal Canin wet food which i won't change for now but will investigate others once i have her home but with a steady introduction as again i don't want to upset her digestive system with too much change to her diet.

Thank you for the reference to the top of the forum as i will go and read the sticky on wet food


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## hoofmaiden (Sep 28, 2009)

Maistaff said:


> The Royal Canin is the food she has been wheened on to and not wanting to upset her too much what with moving home to mine i want to keep as much as possible the same e.g her diet


Why? There is no benefit at all to keeping her on a poor, dry food.


> I am a great believer that all animals need meat be it in a wet food format or raw. I have tried feeding raw with my dogs BUT i found that i had no confidence in myself to get the balance right and as i both show and compete my dogs in agility i need to ensure their diet is the best i can offer them.


Well, come over to the raw forum and we'll help you.  It's very simple, really, for both dogs and cats. I feed 3 dogs and 3 cats -- all raw.


> I have no objections to feeding my kitten raw chicken as i currently feed raw chicken wings to my dogs as an extra source of raw meat and bone. I also feed fish, tuna, mackeral, sardines etc to my dogs so again my kitten will also get fish added to her diet.


Fish is not a natural food for cats and can result in UTIs, etc. I feed fish maybe once every few weeks -- that's it. If you want to feed it, feed it in VERY small quantities, and make sure that it is not canned fish but raw. But generally, avoid it. 


> The Royal Canin or what ever dry food i chose will be the main part of her diet with my added meats. I will feed the wet food, again she gets Royal Canin wet food which i won't change for now but will investigate others once i have her home but with a steady introduction as again i don't want to upset her digestive system with too much change to her diet.


Well, I don't recommend having dry food as the "main part" of the diet (or any part). And again--take a look at the ingredients in that food. ICK! 

You are worrying too much about upsetting the digestive system. Cats change foods all the time and manage just fine. If you are really worried, just mix some of the old with some of the new, and over the course of a few days, reduce the old food and increase the new. Being worried about change is not a good reason to keep feeding a poor food . . . 

I also don't recommend mixing raw and commercial. It is easy to feed a balanced raw diet, but if you are mixing raw and commercial, it is very easy to UNbalance things.


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## KittyMonster (Nov 8, 2009)

Maistaff said:


> Presently she is fed on Royal Canin which is a great food but i am not keen on the way they make it and more importantly test it on animals prior to it being released on to the market.


I know I'm nitpicking here, but I'm really confused as to why you would find this an issue. Personally I'd be more concerned if they _didn't_ test it on animals before release. I can understand if you are against animal testing on human products, but... How can you be sure if a product for cats is safe for cats if it's not given to cats prior to release? :? This just doesn't make sense to me. Surely it's better for a company to give a food to cats in a secure environment rather than release it to the public without knowing?


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## Maistaff (Dec 4, 2009)

KittyMonster said:


> Maistaff said:
> 
> 
> > Presently she is fed on Royal Canin which is a great food but i am not keen on the way they make it and more importantly test it on animals prior to it being released on to the market.
> ...



Maybe you are and maybe you are not, it is a valid question which i will answer

I am not an animal rights person in any way shape or form however i have standrads and i will not promote or support any compnay that promotes any kind of cruel animal testing

Please read the link 

http://www.uncaged.co.uk/petfood.htm


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## hoofmaiden (Sep 28, 2009)

I repeat: you seem unaware that ALL pet foods are "tested" on animals via feeding trials.

If you truly want to avoid it, feed raw only. Otherwise, that's just how it is.


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## Maistaff (Dec 4, 2009)

hoofmaiden said:


> Maistaff said:
> 
> 
> > The Royal Canin is the food she has been wheened on to and not wanting to upset her too much what with moving home to mine i want to keep as much as possible the same e.g her diet
> ...


Fish is not a natural food for cats and can result in UTIs, etc. I feed fish maybe once every few weeks -- that's it. If you want to feed it, feed it in VERY small quantities, and make sure that it is not canned fish but raw. But generally, avoid it. 


> The Royal Canin or what ever dry food i chose will be the main part of her diet with my added meats. I will feed the wet food, again she gets Royal Canin wet food which i won't change for now but will investigate others once i have her home but with a steady introduction as again i don't want to upset her digestive system with too much change to her diet.


Well, I don't recommend having dry food as the "main part" of the diet (or any part). And again--take a look at the ingredients in that food. ICK! 

I totally agree that in dry food the ingredients are not the best hence why i was considering Orijen as the ratio of protein to carbs is very different than that in conventional foods. 

You are worrying too much about upsetting the digestive system. Cats change foods all the time and manage just fine. If you are really worried, just mix some of the old with some of the new, and over the course of a few days, reduce the old food and increase the new. Being worried about change is not a good reason to keep feeding a poor food . . . 

Yes i am worrying but rather that than not. i find all to many people don't give their animals a second thought and feed then total crap which is mainly water based with no nutritional value at all all because the packet says it the best food. I like to take my time and research to ensure that what i do is the best i can not only for my pet but also for me.

I also don't recommend mixing raw and commercial. It is easy to feed a balanced raw diet, but if you are mixing raw and commercial, it is very easy to UNbalance things.[/quote:2bk3jggc]



Thank you for your post as i appreciate your answers and questions


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## hoofmaiden (Sep 28, 2009)

Maistaff said:


> Yes i am worrying but rather that than not. i find all to many people don't give their animals a second thought and feed then total crap which is mainly water based with no nutritional value at all all because the packet says it the best food. I like to take my time and research to ensure that what i do is the best i can not only for my pet but also for me.


Well, I can't say that I agree that you've done much research. I don't mean to be rude, but the fact is that almost ANY canned food, even stuff that I would prefer never to feed, is still better than any dry food. The food SHOULD have a high (70%) water content b/c that is what cats require for good health. Again, cats need to get most of their water from their food. If they are not doing so, they are dehydrated. You will see them drinking, but they will not be taking in enough. The long-term consequences of feeding kibble include UTIs, crystals/blockages, kidney disease, diabetes, etc.

If you'd like to do serious research on this issue, here are some links to start with.

http://www.catinfo.org/

http://www.maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm

http://www.blakkatz.com/dryfood.html

http://www.littlebigcat.com/?action=lib ... cannedfood

I agree that "worrying" is a good idea -- most of us here are VERY concerned about our cats' health and well-being. But IMHO you are worrying about the wrong things. Worry about chronic low-grade dehydration and grains/potatoes, etc. fed to an obligate carnivore -- those are things worth worrying about!!


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## hoofmaiden (Sep 28, 2009)

Some additional information:

Orijen cat/kitten kibble ingredients [Items highlighted in red are items cats are unable to process and that may cause serious long-term problems]:

Fresh deboned chicken, chicken meal, turkey meal, russet potato, fresh deboned salmon (a natural source of DHA and EPA), herring meal, sweet potato, fresh deboned lake whitefish, peas, fresh deboned walleye, chicken fat (naturally preserved with vitamin E and citric acid), chicken liver, salmon meal, fresh deboned turkey, fresh whole eggs, fresh deboned herring, sun-cured alfalfa, salmon oil, chicory root, dehydrated organic kelp, pumpkin, carrots, spinach, turnip greens, apples, cranberries, saskatoon berries, black currants, choline chloride, psyllium, licorice root, angelica root, fenugreek, marigold flowers, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, chamomile flowers, dandelion, summer savory, rosemary, etc.

http://www.orijen.ca/orijen/products/ca ... ients.aspx

This food also has a LOT of fish in it [highlighted in purple]. Fish isn't really a natural food for cats and feeding too much of it is implicated in UTIs/crystals/blockages.

And it's only got 10% moisture.  http://www.orijen.ca/orijen/products/ca ... lysis.aspx


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## furryfriends251 (Jan 1, 2009)

If my only two choices were to feed something like EVO dry or 9lives wet food I'd choose the wet. I don't care how great the dry food is or how horrible the wet is; I still would choose the wet food. 

Cats, like hoofmaiden said, need water in their diet. Cats will not drink enough water when they are eating dry food leaving them in a constant state of dehydration. That leads to tons of health issues...is that what you want?

Cats are obligate carnivores. http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Carnivore defines that:





> An obligate or true carnivore depends solely on the nutrients found in animal flesh for their survival. While they may consume small amounts of plant material they lack the physiology required for the efficient digestion. *The domestic cat is a prime example of an obligate carnivore*, as are all of the other felids. The ability to produce synthetic forms of nutrients such as taurine in the lab has allowed feed manufacturers to formulate foods for carnivores (zoo animals and pets) with varying amounts of plant material.





> A carnivore , meaning 'meat eater' is an animal that derives its energy and nutrient requirements from a diet
> consisting mainly or exclusively of vertebrae or/and invertabrae animal tissue, whether through predation or scavanging. Animals that depend solely on animal flesh for their nutrient requirements are considered obligate carnivores.


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

I agree with your thoughts on not switching foods right away. An additional short period on the current food isn't going to cause any major problems. However with all the changes you'll be going through that can cause digestive upset, you don't need to add a food change into the mix.

However, a cat's natural prey is comprised of 70% water. Dry food is only 10%. A cat would need to drink 1.25 cups of water for every cup of dry food consumed in order to make up that missing 60%. And they just don't do that, being originally desert animals they don't have a high thirst drive. So a cat really needs a primarily wet food diet to be properly hydrated.


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## Maistaff (Dec 4, 2009)

I am beginning to wish i had not bothered to ask the question 

My kitten is a norweigan forrest cat who loves water infact according to the breeder will spend a lot of time paddling in her water bowl and lapping it all up. In the wild these cats will and do catch fresh fish as part of their natural diet.

Thank you all for your advice and links i will do what is best for my kitten and she will be fed on the best possible diet that i can offer her although it will not be a full time raw diet. A mixture of wet and dry as to the ration i am unsure yet and as to what brands again i don't know but rest assure she will not suffer in any way with what ever food choice i make for her 

Once again thank you all for your input


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

Hey, we're only trying to help. Sorry you're not open to receiving useful information.


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## Maistaff (Dec 4, 2009)

Doolebug 

I am more than open for help and advice but when reading some of the responses i felt like i was being attacked rather than given advice  

I have now reassesed the situation of food and i have oppted for the Applaws range as the main source of my kittens diet. It appears to be grain free, full of moisture and has a high meat content. Which i believe was what was suggested i feed :mrgreen: 

I do have a bag of 10kg Royal Canin which i got with her. I will leave a dish down for my kitten to pick at should she wish however the Applaws range is and will be her main source of diet. Once the bag is gone it will be gone !


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## melysion (Mar 12, 2007)

Hello,

Are you from the UK? I think you probably are, in which case I can suggest some good quality wet foods if that helps .... Applaws is definately one (they also do a decent dry food as well) but be careful as its a complimentary rather than a complete wet food. Have a look out for Natures:Menu and Bozita wet if you can (but only feed the Bozita in the tetrapaks rather than the cans).

My cat is on a half wet/half raw diet due to me not feeling that confident with providing a fully balanced raw diet, and he does pretty well on it I think. I do feed some dry though, particularly when I know I'm going to be late home from Roller Derby practice and I rather like Orijen. For a dry food its pretty good, but have a look out for the Applaws dry food too.


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## Maistaff (Dec 4, 2009)

melysion said:


> Hello,
> 
> Are you from the UK? I think you probably are, in which case I can suggest some good quality wet foods if that helps .... Applaws is definately one (they also do a decent dry food as well) but be careful as its a complimentary rather than a complete wet food. Have a look out for Natures:Menu and Bozita wet if you can (but only feed the Bozita in the tetrapaks rather than the cans).
> 
> My cat is on a half wet/half raw diet due to me not feeling that confident with providing a fully balanced raw diet, and he does pretty well on it I think. I do feed some dry though, particularly when I know I'm going to be late home from Roller Derby practice and I rather like Orijen. For a dry food its pretty good, but have a look out for the Applaws dry food too.



Thank you for your post 

Yes i am from the UK and as i have foundout it is hard to find good quality cat food.

I have had a look at the Applaws dry and it is something i am considering once i get through the 10kg of Royal Canin in my kitchen :roll: 

Annabelle did have her first taste of raw today, i was feeding raw chicken wings to my dogs and she was helping herself out the pack i bought .. she likes it so i won't discourage her, i will just see how it goes.


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