# Clostridium Perfringens Enterotoxin



## Jet Green (Nov 28, 2005)

Anybody have experience with Clostridium Perfringens Enterotoxin? Clostridium Perfringens is a bacteria that is normally present in cats' intestines, but can go awry and produce a toxin that causes diarrhea. My cats are being tested for it this week. If they test positive, they will all have to be on antibiotics for 2-3 weeks.

As I've complained here many times, we've had recurrent diarrhea and other symptoms going on for about a year and a half.  Our first vet diagnosed it as coronavirus, then moved away, and none of the subsequent vets has been convinced of the diagnosis. But none of them has offered any alternate diagnosis, beyond running the same tests for fecal parasites over and over, which always come up negative. :? 

So I'm happy to have found a vet who at least has an alternate theory. I get the impression that this illness isn't terribly common in cats, but if you've ever had it in your household, please let me know what your experiences have been. Thanks for any response.


----------



## HersheysKiss (Apr 12, 2007)

Have your cats been tested for Tritrichomonas Foetus?  It is a parasite that can be missed or misdiagnosed. It is becoming more and more prevelant in cats unfortunately. Here is some info I posted in the past.

http://www.cvm.ncsu.edu/docs/PDFS/gookin/ownersguide_tfoetus.pdf

http://www.catforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=46353&highlight=tritrich

I know there are a few other posts that address the same issue. Good luck with your kitties.


----------



## Jet Green (Nov 28, 2005)

Thanks for the info! I did ask the vet about that, and she said that if they had it, it should have shown up in one of the routine fecal tests. (Even though it can be hard to spot, they've had about a million tests, so somebody should have seen _something_.) She also said that the treatment for Clostridium would likely kill any T. Foetus too.


----------



## HersheysKiss (Apr 12, 2007)

From what I understand from my research T. Foetus can be hard to spot simply because it has a very short life outside of the body. You basically need a very fresh, warm sample or get a sample directly from the cat at the time of testing. If the sample cools...tritrich dies. If your cats were on any antibiotic at the time of testing that can also throw off results. 

What method of fecal testing was done? I didn't realize until my issues was that some clinics do floats, some do smears some do both. My new vet now sends their fecals to a lab for centrifuging and I don't know if that method will work for tritrich detection. The smear method has poor detection rate for tritrich. My new vet has told me that the float method is being found to not be very accurate because not everything bad floats from what I understand and that is why they send them to a lab now.

From what I have read....culturing or doing a test for T. Foetus DNA in fecal are the most reliable methods of testing.

Unfortunately the only proven method of getting rid of T. Foetus is ronidazole which I highly doubt is going to be the drug your vet will use.

Here is an article I found that mentions both T. Foetus and Clostridium Perfringens Enterotoxin. 
http://www.hcvma.org/notes/SpeakerNotesToddTams.pdf

Good luck with everything. I hope you can get this problem taken care of. I know how frustrating chronic diarrhea can be. I have been dealing with it too. My youngest cat, I am almost 99% sure has T. Foetus. His breeder has treated her cattery for it and has gotten rid of the diarrhea in her home but I was waiting it out a bit to see if the diarrhea cleared before using ronidazole to treat him. Ronidazole can have neurologic side affects so I am a little nervous to start it. I am going to have a test done soon for t. foetus. We have ruled out other parasites and issues. 

I am very curious to know how your test for CPE goes. Keep us updated.

A little tip in the mean time....add some plain metamucil powder to their wet food. It helps bulk up the stool and can help firm up the liqui-poo's.


----------



## Jet Green (Nov 28, 2005)

Thanks, HersheysKiss. I did have some reservations about the "whatever we give them will kill T. foetus" comment too, since everything that I've seen indicates just what you said, that only ronidazole works on it. The vet only mentioned amoxicillan, Flagyl, and Tylosin as options.

I'm not so worried about T. foetus being there, though, because they always take a sample from a live cat, they do both a smear and a flotation every time, and they look for giardia, which T. foetus is supposed to look a lot like. I could be overconfident, of course -- I need to do more research on it than I have.

But another factor is that the diarrhea isn't constant at all. It usually lasts a few days at most in each cat, and they pass it back and forth. I've been able to make the symptoms go away entirely for months at a time by going crazy on the litter box hygiene -- weekly bleach-sterilization of the litter boxes and the room they're in, using only World's Best Cat Litter to keep the dust down. I'm spending $200+ and 16+ hours a month on litter box cleaning. But every time I think I've beaten it, and relax the cleaning even a little bit, whatever-it-is comes back. In your experience, would that be characteristic of T. foetus ?

Well, I have lots more reading to do, including your latest article -- thank you!  I'll post the test results when I get them. And I hope you can get a diagnosis and safe remedy for your little one.


----------



## HersheysKiss (Apr 12, 2007)

From what I understand you can have intermittent diarrhea. My guy has very loose stools then they get some consistancy then we go back to runny diarrhea. I have never had firm stools from him. The closest we got once was when my previous vet did the basic fecals and found nothiing but treated him with a few anti-parasite meds and metronidazole(which is in the same family as ronidazole) anyways. He started to get firmer stools but as soon as the course of the med was over he went right back to loose stools. I guess other antibiotics will decrease the parasite load enough to give you the apperance that the cat is cured but t. foetus will still be there and recover again causing symptoms all over again. 

I feel your pain on cleaning and steralizing cat pans. I keep 6-7 litter boxes. One vet told me the best thing is to use regular/non clumping litter and dump it entirely everyday. It is cheaper than clumping. I don't always keep up as well as I should. 

I have 3 cats and only one with this problem. My 2 other cats are older. I believe Hersheys has t.foetus as well since she had the diarrhea when I brought her home with Apollo. But she is older and the diarreha resolved on its own I never persued it. I was hoping Apollo's would clear as well on its own as he got older but it hasn't. It is VERY smelly. He can clear half the house when he goes. :roll: 

In terms of the tests they did do...float and smear. Smear is not an accurate way to look for t. foetus. I may be wrong but I thought I had read somewhere that giardia can be tough to find as well unless you do specialized tests. The new vet that I switched to no longer does fecals in house because the float method is not very accurate from what they are finding. They send them to a lab for centrifuging. 

I am going to request the PCR test for T. foetus. It basically looks for the DNA of T.foetus in the stool and can find it in trace amounts. I don't want to waste time and money of going through multiple other tests that may not be accurate. It is more expensive but if it gives me a diagnosis it is worth it. I am almost certain that this is what he has since his breeder treated her cattery for it after I brought him home.

PS..I found what I read about giardia


> Giardiasis is very difficult to diagnose because the protozoa are so small and are not passed with every stool. Tests on serial stool samples (one stool sample every day for three days) are often required to find the organism. Special diagnostic procedures, beyond a routine fecal examination, are necessary to identify Giardia. The procedures we use to identify roundworms and hookworms kill the active form of Giardia and concentrate the cyst form.


----------



## manitu22 (Apr 25, 2003)

My cats tested positive for Tritrichomonas. I adopted a kitten who was found to have coccidia. My adult cat ended up contracting it as well so they both went on meds to cure that issue. Unfortunately both kitties were still exhibiting intestinal issues including cowpie like stools that stunk so bad that your hair would stand on end. The kitties were also a bit gassy as well. Other than that they appeared healthy. I knew something was wrong and like 6 months later, a dozen vet visits, and around $1,000 down the tube they finally decided to test for this parasite as a last resort(they said it was pretty rare). Sure enough the test came back positive. The vet did prescribe ronidazole and they were cured in like 2 weeks. They have been fine ever since. My adult cat Willis did have some mild neurological side effects from the meds like occasional dizziness but once they went off the medication they were fine.


----------



## manitu22 (Apr 25, 2003)

Here is another link to check out

http://www.tffelines.com/index.html

This site was very helpful to me. The person who runs it contacted me recently to see how my kitties were doing and wanted to know if I wanted to post pictures of my kitties and their story. I probably will end up doing that soon.


----------



## HersheysKiss (Apr 12, 2007)

manitu22
What form of testing did you go with to get the diagnosis?

Thanks for the link to tffelines.com!


----------



## manitu22 (Apr 25, 2003)

To be honest I don't remember what type of test my vet did. I need to bring Willis in this week for a follow up appointment to his dental cleaning so I will ask then. 

Also, both of you are welcome to PM me if you want to discuss this in more detail.


----------



## Jet Green (Nov 28, 2005)

It sounds like if the CPE test comes up negative, I really should ask for a specific T. foetus test, then. I will do that.

I hope I don't have to fight my vet for one.  She seems to be leaning in the direction of treating for CPE even if it comes up negative (I gather that the test isn't 100% reliable). But given the extreme difficulty of medicating my cats, all of which are former ferals, I really want to be sure we're treating the right thing.

Thanks everybody for your info and advice.


----------



## manitu22 (Apr 25, 2003)

Thinking back I believe my vet did test for Clostridium before she did the test for T. Foetus. We went through many series of testing with Coccidia, Giardia etc. in the first wave, Clostridium and a couple of others in the second wave including the prospect of possibly having 2 cats with IBD or colitis, and then finally the test for T. Foetus. 

Just make sure if they are going to test for T. Foetus that your cat is not taking Flagyl (Metronidazole) as it can skew the test results.


----------



## HersheysKiss (Apr 12, 2007)

http://www.cvm.ncsu.edu/docs/PDFS/gookin/tritrichomonas_PCR_submission.pdf

I printed this form and I am taking it to my vet. I think I may go directly to the experts on this for testing. What do you think Manitu?


----------



## manitu22 (Apr 25, 2003)

I think my vet did the testing in house but if your vet feels more comfortable sending the sample on for testing than doing it themselves then I would recommend you both go that route. 

I will try to find out from my vet this week as to what method she had used.


----------

