# Tramatized Kitty - years and no luck



## Nessibean (Mar 31, 2011)

In Short: Jack was found as a young cat/larger kitten outside after Hurricane Gustav in Baton Rouge, starved, wet and very frightened. Since then my boyfriend has kept him indoors. I moved in with them about a year ago. His entire life, Jack has been terrified of people, even us, to the point of shaking and even peeing out of fright. If you come near him he hisses and spits and will always run. We have tried everything. I do not want to live with a feral apartment cat forever. We could really use some advice. 

In Detail: When Jack was a kitten (although I didn't know him at that point) he would play with strings with my boyfriend but always had to be coaxed out. Now he wont come near a string if you are holding it but will play nicely with the laser pointer. He lives with his wife (Sunny) and their daughter (Vanessa) and is very social with them. Occasionally he will come up and beg for dinner scraps, he will not take them from our hands but if you leave them he will come and take it. I am personally afraid to grab him after watching my boyfriend get scratched so many times, but if he is held on a lap (against his will) for several days in a row he tends to be more outgoing. By that I mean coming into the room where we are and not act so afraid. When we do pick him up he tucks his face away under your arm and trembles. Sometimes at night he will cry and cry. I am afraid that he suffers from some kind of nervous disorder and that the stress is very hard on him. We have tried everything from pheromone collars to herbal treatments. Sometimes I will lay on the floor about 8 feet from him and just act calm so he gets used to having us near him but still every time we come near him he hisses and spits. It is not a good situation for him or us and I think he sets a bad example for Vanessa, who will mimic his behavior in a playful way. I need advice on what to do with him. Is he a lost cause?


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## Straysmommy (Dec 23, 2010)

I'll leave it to the experts here to answer that, but I just wanted to mention that I've been intensively devoting myself to the strays downstairs here in the park, practically living for them, and only now, after 5-6 months, they don't jump and hide when I'm near. They STILL try to swat my hand if I get too near, even though I'm the only kindness they've known all their lives. However, the fruits of routine, regularity and perseverance can be seen and are a wonderful reward for me. One of them, who was little more than a screaming ball of nerves and swatting paws, now lays in the little bed I made her behind the bushes almost all day, with dreamy eyes, and when I come up to her, instead of running away she gazes at me with such calm and sweetness in her eyes it drives me to tears. I believe there's always hope...


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## Straysmommy (Dec 23, 2010)

lays = lies

I think that when you're not expecting improvement all the time, improvement happens one day and surprises you.


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## Nessibean (Mar 31, 2011)

Straysmommy said:


> I'll leave it to the experts here to answer that, but I just wanted to mention that I've been intensively devoting myself to the strays downstairs here in the park, practically living for them, and only now, after 5-6 months, they don't jump and hide when I'm near. They STILL try to swat my hand if I get too near, even though I'm the only kindness they've known all their lives. However, the fruits of routine, regularity and perseverance can be seen and are a wonderful reward for me. One of them, who was little more than a screaming ball of nerves and swatting paws, now lays in the little bed I made her behind the bushes almost all day, with dreamy eyes, and when I come up to her, instead of running away she gazes at me with such calm and sweetness in her eyes it drives me to tears. I believe there's always hope...


He has never known anything but kindness from us.. it has been almost three years. Every time I think we are making some sort of progress he regresses to his wild state again. I can sometimes catch him napping on the stairs and steal a quick neck scratch before he hisses and runs off. We are actually considering getting a type of "kitty prozac" from the vet. But I have read mixed reviews.. Since he is a permanent member of our family it almost seems like a must.. just dont want to do something that would be unhealthy long term.. you know anything about it??


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## Nessibean (Mar 31, 2011)

Straysmommy said:


> lays = lies
> 
> I think that when you're not expecting improvement all the time, improvement happens one day and surprises you.


I really do hope to be surprised. It is just that in the two years he has been a part of my life I have seen none at all. He is as nervous as the day I met him...


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## MowMow (Nov 6, 2010)

Is he neutered and are the females spayed? That often alters behavior.


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## MinkaMuffin (Apr 1, 2011)

It might seem mean, but I might recommend isolating him from the other two cats for a while. It sounds like he spends most of his time with them and not you and so has never had to learn to become friendly. You are just the people he is forced to live with and put up with.

Try spending time with him in a bathroom or other small room. Just him and you or him and your boyfriend (so he doesnt feel outnumbered). First week just talk to him, don't even bother trying to touch him (those kisses you sneak in sound scary for him, dont do that anymore), second week, just practice holding out your hand to him (still not touching him, just gaining trust with him that you aren't going to hurt him when your arm moves towards him), third week try lightly lightly touching him, fourth week petting, etc.
Honestly it shouldnt take that long, I've dealt with scared cats before and its mostly just that people are too overwhelming. They get impatient and try to force the animal into liking them when its too soon. (And I understand it's been 3 years, but like I said it sounds like he's been living in the shadows, never really being socialized in a formal way, just chasing him around the house.)


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## suwanee (Jan 22, 2011)

I agree with MinkaMuffin. Go to the Feral Cats section here and start reading. That's what you have here. 

It has to be 100% on his terms. He needs a safe room or large crate off the floor with a smaller carrier in it so he feels like it's his den. 

You cannot initiate touch. It has to come from him. He is so freaked out that you have to start over.


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## Nessibean (Mar 31, 2011)

MinkaMuffin said:


> It might seem mean, but I might recommend isolating him from the other two cats for a while. It sounds like he spends most of his time with them and not you and so has never had to learn to become friendly. You are just the people he is forced to live with and put up with.
> 
> Try spending time with him in a bathroom or other small room. Just him and you or him and your boyfriend (so he doesnt feel outnumbered). First week just talk to him, don't even bother trying to touch him (those kisses you sneak in sound scary for him, dont do that anymore), second week, just practice holding out your hand to him (still not touching him, just gaining trust with him that you aren't going to hurt him when your arm moves towards him), third week try lightly lightly touching him, fourth week petting, etc.
> Honestly it shouldnt take that long, I've dealt with scared cats before and its mostly just that people are too overwhelming. They get impatient and try to force the animal into liking them when its too soon. (And I understand it's been 3 years, but like I said it sounds like he's been living in the shadows, never really being socialized in a formal way, just chasing him around the house.)


I think that is a wonderful idea actually. He is very sweet and affectionate to the other cats, so he clearly craves socialization of some type. Maybe if he didnt have their attention for a while he would find our attention more appealing. We could move him into the spare bedroom. He would have his own window and litter box but no wife and daughter.  Tough love I guess. I have had cats all my life, but they have always been so easy to get along with. I dont really know the first thing about dealing with this type of behavior. I really appreciate the encouragement! I feel really good about this idea. Thank you!


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Eh, male cats don't see their mate and offspring as "wife" and "daughter"...he sees them as other cats he knows and is friendly with. You wouldn't be a cruel homewrecker by separating them. 

As MowMow asked, is he neutered and the females spayed? This affects behavior.


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## MinkaMuffin (Apr 1, 2011)

You're welcome Nessibean ^^
I may be a noob around here, but I have a very good knack for understanding cats, usually even more so then other cat fanatics I know. (Not trying to brag, I just watch people interact with their kitties and I can practically _feel _the distress coming off of them and wonder 'How do you not notice this??!? X___X')


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## Nessibean (Mar 31, 2011)

paperbacknovel said:


> Eh, male cats don't see their mate and offspring as "wife" and "daughter"...he sees them as other cats he knows and is friendly with. You wouldn't be a cruel homewrecker by separating them.
> 
> As MowMow asked, is he neutered and the females spayed? This affects behavior.


 i know he doesnt but i like thinking of them as an adorable nuclear family.. and yes they are all fixed


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## Nessibean (Mar 31, 2011)

MinkaMuffin said:


> You're welcome Nessibean ^^
> I may be a noob around here, but I have a very good knack for understanding cats, usually even more so then other cat fanatics I know. (Not trying to brag, I just watch people interact with their kitties and I can practically _feel _the distress coming off of them and wonder 'How do you not notice this??!? X___X')


yea.. well the distress is definitely noticeable... :?


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## swimkris (Jul 17, 2010)

While I see the advantage of minkamuffin's idea with a new cat brought into the home, I wonder if separating the cats might just create more stress since they are probably bonded. I know that my cats tend to freak out if they are every separated for any length of time. Perhaps you could confine all of the cats to 1 room together? That way, your feral cat can watch you interact nicely with the other cats as well without feeling separated/trapped away from the others. Like the others have said, it has to be on his terms and at his pace. Start with special treats (maybe some cooked bits of chicken, beef, shrimp, whatever he really likes) and toys that let him keep his distance. Then you would slowly work towards treats out of your hand more interactive toys. Make sure that you don't make any sudden movements, talk to the cats, and don't loom over him (sit down on the floor to interact).


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## Vivid Dawn (May 31, 2010)

I live in a one-room apartment, except the bathroom...which is tiny (sink and toilet... to shower, I have to go up 2 flights of stairs to the top level of the house!).
I really have no place to isolate cats, but I still do the method of just letting them get used to you on their own time.

Paizly was rescued as a feral kitten 10 years ago. She's still kind of feral, but that's because my ex teased her (guess I should have been smart at the beginning and dumped him, rather than "waste" 9 years with him!).
Nebbie was also very skittish when I first got her, and would dart off if I held out my hand (I think she was hit by her previous owners). It took a good 6 months for her to not flinch away, and let me TOUCH her a moment. After a year, I could actually pet her with a few strokes on the shoulders. She still shies away from being touched on the head, but otherwise she's okay. Sleeps on the bed, and everything!
Paizly still gets scared if I move too quickly and/or stand at my full height when I'm near her.

I also tamed a couple feral kittens that way... just let them get used to me being around, and not forcing them to be held or petted.
Though kittens are easier to tame than older cats. It's why it took Nebbie 2+ years to get used to me, because she was already nearly 2 years old.

I do agree that having him in "cat room" with ONE person at a time for daily visits (probably 3 visits, 30 minutes max?) would be the best way to go until he realizes you're not a threat.

Good luck!


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## RowdyAndMalley (Aug 9, 2010)

swimkris said:


> While I see the advantage of minkamuffin's idea with a new cat brought into the home, I wonder if separating the cats might just create more stress since they are probably bonded. I know that my cats tend to freak out if they are every separated for any length of time. Perhaps you could confine all of the cats to 1 room together? That way, your feral cat can watch you interact nicely with the other cats as well without feeling separated/trapped away from the others. Like the others have said, it has to be on his terms and at his pace. Start with special treats (maybe some cooked bits of chicken, beef, shrimp, whatever he really likes) and toys that let him keep his distance. Then you would slowly work towards treats out of your hand more interactive toys. Make sure that you don't make any sudden movements, talk to the cats, and don't loom over him (sit down on the floor to interact).


 
I totally agree, seperating him from the only living beings he finds comfort in might be a bad idea. Keep them all in a room and have him watch you calmly and gently interact with the other cats a couple times a day. Don't make any attempt to pet him. If he comes to you let him sniff around and smell you and offer him a treat so he sees you in a positive light. Talk in a calm, gentle and soft tone of voice. It's going to take patience and determination, and both you and your boyfriend to make this work, but it can happen.


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## Modra (Jan 17, 2011)

he seems more like a ferral/wild sort than a domestic cat. Perhaps he was very young when he became on his own and that made him take on wild habits. He must have been very scared to face the world on his own at such a small age. Nothing to worry really, even ferrals can become great pets, give it time and de-sex him (that helps in taming the wild side)


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## MinkaMuffin (Apr 1, 2011)

Nessibean said:


> yea.. well the distress is definitely noticeable... :?


I hope you know I didnt mean you, I meant other people.. x'DD


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## SpellQ (Dec 12, 2010)

It might end up he just needs a few more years. My Zoe went from a scared screamer who wouldn't let me near her save for the odd pat if she walked up to me, to a sweet and VERY Snuggly kitty when she was about 6 yrs old. It was nearly an overnight change in her. Prior to the change she would play with me, occasionally come near me, but if I moved she would hiss or scream and run. She never knew anything but lovies and patience from me. Kitties have their own personality and, like Zoe, Jack might just be a skittish/vocal/cranky little boy. I'm curious if he'll settle and become a snuggle muffin later too. She never warmed up to anyone other than me & my ex. Everyone else was met with screams and spitting (when it goes beyond just hissing!) even though she really would never have hurt anyone. She was super territorial.

I agree with the mini-den idea just for him. Zoe had her little corners where she'd go sulk or sleep or just hang out if she was feeling put out because I had company visiting or wouldn't give her people food!


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## Nessibean (Mar 31, 2011)

So I just finished setting up the Jack-in-isolation room. It has eats, litter box, toys, window, scratching posts and comfy sleeping quarters. Everything he needs for kitty jail time. 

@ swimkris & RowdyandMalley: I have the same concerns (that separating him from the others will be very stressful). They are best friends and they have never been apart before. I don't want his isolation to feel like a punishment and honestly I do sort of feel like I am being a meany, but I also feel this way on trips to the vet, which are obviously for his own good. So I do plan to go through with it. I am only hoping that without social contact with them he will begin to look to us for socialization instead of to the other cats. Do you think temporary visits from the other two would be a good thing? I just wonder if he would get his attention fix and not feel a need for human interaction. Or I guess he could feel like we took away his only friends and resent us for doing it. I need a cat psychic. The idea of containing all three of them in the room might be a last resort. Vanessa has slept on my pillow since she could climb into the bed. She would very much dislike not being able to and I would also rather not do without her. They are all used to having free reign of the house and Sunny even likes to go outside. I do not want to punish or anger my girls if it can be avoided. 

@ Minkamuffin: no stress  

On another note, I have this stuff called Calm Down by Pet Organics. It is a liquid that you put into the drinking water. It supposedly contains an herbal remedy for cat stress. When I am stressed out I take B vitamins and I believe that it helps. So while I am skeptical, I am hoping that it will calm his nerves a little. If anyone has any experience with the stuff or has any comments about it I would love to hear them. 

I really don't consider him a feral cat.. I guess that might just be because he has lived indoors in relatively close quarters with people for almost three years. Maybe I am just ignoring the obvious. Anyways, he does respond well to treats. We have used various lunch meats in prior attempts to domesticate him and I do think its a good idea to continue the lunch meat training. I like the idea about only treating him when he approaches us. So he will associate outgoing behavior with treats...which is good  

As far as taking no action and allowing him to gradually come around on his own, I am just afraid that the older he gets the more set in his ways he will become. I feel like we should have done this last year.. I expect him to always be skittish.. I am just trying to wean him of his mean streak. 

Thank you everyone for the advice! This forum has been extremely helpful!


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## The Humble Servant (Mar 16, 2011)

I know this likely makes me the odd man out on the forum, but I am not opposed to "kitty-prozac" in cases like these. I would try every behavioral technique I could before resorting to medicating, but medicating is not an unthinkable option.

If you do decide to go that route, some things to know
-these drugs are not 100% safe, and any vet worth their salt is want to do follow up bloodwork a few months after starting it, and at least yearly monitoring. 
-There are several different medications a vet can recommend, not all cats respond the same way to them and after a long trial (minimum 6 weeks, in my experience) he may have to be weaned off before trying another
-You CANNOT stop the medication abruptly.

Callista is on once daily Clompiramine (Clomi-Calm) for hyperesthesia and generally being neurotic. We first tried Elavil (amitryptaline) which made her aggressive towards the other cats, then she went on Prozac which made her talk even more than she already did as well as kind of spacey. Clomi-Calm was the 3rd attempt, and she is doing very well with it. No more freaking out and attacking her tail base, almost all of her fur has grown back (except her belly fur, which is still thin and short, allergies) and best of all her personality isn't changed. She is still bossy, demanding, sweet and loves cuddles. She is more confident in general and now allows strangers to pet her, albeit briefly. 

Living with a feral cat is hard, but the big question is, how happy is the cat? If he is cool just hanging out with the other kitties and doesn't hide 24/7, my personal choice would be to let him be who is he is. If seems to be living in constant fear, on the other hand, a little chemical intervention may help. 

You'll also need to ask yourself how realistic it is for you to medicate him. Both of my cats who are on daily meds (Jasio has asthma) get their meds in liquid form on top their food since pilling every day, and in Jasio's case twice daily, just didn't seem like a fun idea for me or the cats. There are specialty veterinary compounding pharmacies out there who will make these drugs into a tasty liquid that most cats don't even notice on their food.

Also, if you have a couple hundred bucks to spend, you can get a behaviorist in to evaluate him and help you teach him people are fun and good.


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## swimkris (Jul 17, 2010)

What worries me about them being separated is that they will *know* that the other cat(s) are on the other side. It will cause stress to your other cats in addition to the one you are isolating. If you keep them apart long enough (which it sounds like the process may take weeks or even months or not work at all), then your other cats may not even except him back in their "territory" aka the rest of the house. 

It might be awkward, but the best thing that I can think of as a compromise would be to keep him or all of your cats in your bedroom. Or, all of the cats could just be kept in with you at night assuming he comes for treats? He just really needs to be kept in a confined but low stress atmosphere. You want him to become accustomed and dependent on you, but you can't do that by terrifying him & taking away things that he knows are still there. 

I'm also not opposed to medications, but it would be contingent on whether you would actually be able to administer them to him specifically (like you couldn't leave it laying out for him in the hopes that he is the one that eats the pill/medicated food).


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## Nessibean (Mar 31, 2011)

it is only his second day in confinement (i guess in reality it has only been about 24 hours) So far, during daylight hours he has kept his eyes tightly shut and growls which huddled in the corner and nighttime he went into full blown panic. He literally dug out a hole in the carpet trying to burrow out under the door (which is now blocked with towels and weights, we use the adjoining bathroom as a buffer zone in case he decides to run for it) We have each spent time sitting on the floor with him.. He just radiates anxiety and stress in every direction. He is freaking out and I feel like a jerk. I actually went through this exact scenario in my head before we started and beforehand decided that i was going to just make him tough it out for at least the first week. But when it comes down to it, I cannot bear to see him like this... I am going to take the girls in there with me for a while to see if that helps to calm him. 

soo about the medication, YES i would love to medicate him. I have dealt with crazy cats in the past but Jackobin takes the cake. He has episodes that seem like panic attacks.. I feel fairly sure that he does indeed have a nervous "disorder" and that if any cat would, Jack would benefit from medication. I would even be willing to spend the money, the problem is how we would give him the medication. He eats only dry food.(i know) The other two eat a mixture of wet and dry along with other tidbits but he will never come when a can is opened and whatever wet food we leave out Sunny will gobble up... and bless her heart she has a very weak stomach and tends to overeat and then vomit.. so leaving extra out for him is not an option. Although I suppose it would be easier to administer while in confinement in food, I am hoping that the confinement will not last too long and I am really looking for a long term solution. Pill or dropper form is out of the question for this ball of teeth and claws.

I actually did some research on behavioral specialists about six months ago but most of them seem to specialize in dogs.. or to be very far away. Not to mention he behaves differently around strangers.. so I dont know if that is the solution..


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## Nessibean (Mar 31, 2011)

So Jack has been in isolation for a while now and ITS WORKING!!! He will play with us and even let us pet him. He is still very timid and has a long way to go but we have had more progress this month that EVER before. He will hiss and rub against our hand almost in the same movement. So I still believe he is insane but we have made so much progress without medication  I think he likes his privacy and personal litter box. He likes the undivided attention he gets from us and the girls. (They visit for 30 mins every other day) Anyways thank you everyone for the encouragement! Especially MinkaMuffin for the idea! I think this is really going to improve Jack's life.


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## swimkris (Jul 17, 2010)

I'm so glad that it is helping! I'm also glad that you are allowing him visit from the others so they won't "forget" each other. Just take it slowly whenever you allow him to roam freely again.


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## MinkaMuffin (Apr 1, 2011)

YAY!! Oh, I'm *so* happy for you and Jack... X]


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## ShadowsRescue (Mar 7, 2011)

I have been working on socializing my feral, Shadow for almost 8 months now. It has been a very long process, but so well worth it. Shadow now comes into the house a few times each day. I have an indoor cat, Jake and a Samoyed (dog), Misty. For the past 2 months, I have been getting Jake and Shadow acclimated. Jake will go in a dog cage or we have a long 8 foot pet tent that he loves. This way, the two can see each other face to face and sniff each other too. Jake has taken to swatting through the cage and even trying to bit Shadow when he is rubbing up against the cage. We have really good days and really bad days. We have also put Jake on a harness and let the two cats get really close. It usually goes well as long as the interactions are short.

A few things that have really helped us are Spirit Essences. They have one specifically for feral cats and another one for scardy cats. Spirit Essences - Holistic Remedies for Animals You can even email them for advice on which remedy they would recommend. It worked so well on Shadow.

We are also using a supplement called Composure. I use the treat variety and all of my animals use it. It really helps all of them to calm down. I started using this in early March and just 2 weeks later, I was able to pet Shadow for the first time. Now he is the most loving cat ever. He loves to be pet and just purrs up a storm. 

Sounds like you are making some really great progress.


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

Just a warning- lunch meats can be very harmful for cats. I would stop feeding them this. Instead, jarred chicken-only baby food is a good substitute- cats LOVE IT and it's safe for them.


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## Mitts & Tess (Sep 4, 2004)

I skimmed this post so I hope Im not repeating what someone has already said. go over to the feral section and read Heidi's Kitty Boot Camp. It is under the sticky Taming and Caring for feral kittens and cats. Also look thru this that Heidi posted.

Kitty Cat Boot Camp
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=60586&p=604933#p604933

Composure has worked miracles for me. My friends tried the treats also and say they work well too. 

The nice thing about using Spirit Essence is you can put it on the cat. Other types you can only put in the water. dont give up this kitty will come around with consistant socializing


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## Lieke (Jan 12, 2011)

just saying that I am amazed and glad that this is working out for you!


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## faithless (Dec 4, 2009)

Yeah, he seems to have never been socialized but reacts well to continued body contact. Good idea to remove him from the others while bit by bit getting him used to the feel of being stroked and touched by humans and learning its nice, not dangerous.


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