# Quality cages



## Tripel (Aug 5, 2012)

I will be picking up my new kitten soon. I work full time, so I won't be able to stay home to keep an eye on it all day. While I am at work, I plan on keeping it locked in a cage, so that it stays safe and out of trouble. Do any of you have any recommendations on what kind of cage I should use? Brand? Size? Shape? Should I leave a few toys inside, so it is not bored while I'm gone? Thank you in advance for your tips.


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## mumof7kitties (Jan 27, 2013)

Why a cage? Why not just put it in the bathroom or your bedroom with the door shut? Just remember to put a litter box and bed/blankets and toys in there with it. 


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## Marcia (Dec 26, 2010)

Yes, why a cage?? Set up an unused (or little used) room with a litter box, food and water and toys. A way to sit and look out a window would be wonderful, too. PLEASE do not subject your kitten to a small cage. It's almost cruel.


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## CatMonkeys (Sep 27, 2012)

If caging a cat is your only option, please reconsider getting a pet at this time. If you don't want to let it roam the house while you are gone, maybe keep it in the bedroom during the day? Make sure it has access to water, a litter box, and toys.


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## Tripel (Aug 5, 2012)

I live in a bachelor’s apartment which is small, so I don’t have an extra room that I can close off. I do have a couple of closets, but they would be too small for it. 
I can’t keep it in my bathroom since there is a chimney structure right outside the window which leads to bathroom windows of the other apartments right below me. I don’t want my neighbors disturbed by constant meowing while I’m gone. 
Why are people so opposed to cages? When I went to a reputable breeder’s residence she kept several kittens in one large cage. She had toys and their litter box inside. 
I don’t think a cage would be cruel during the kittens first year. Letting a curios kitten roam around sounds more inhumane to me. Think about the possible dangers: electrocution, drowning, eating a foreign object, etc. Not even kitten-proofing your home can guarantee their safety. I wouldn’t want to come home to an injured kitty. 
Anyway, thanks for the advice. 
- Tripel


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## mumof7kitties (Jan 27, 2013)

Caging a kitten during it's first year? 

Are we being punked?

Seriously. Don't get a cat if you're not prepared to give it room. 


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## Blakeney Green (Jan 15, 2013)

Your whole apartment needs to be kitten-proofed anyway. Even when you're there, I'm not sure if you yet fully appreciate how quickly things can happen. Kittens can be injured even when their owner is within touch distance, because they're extremely fast and very unpredictable.

Have you considered finding a sitter to look after your kitten? When Zephyr was a baby he stayed at a friend's house when I was at work, so I didn't have to leave him unsupervised for long periods of time.

If you do have no choice but to leave your kitten alone, definitely leave out water, a litterbox, a soft place to sleep, and toys to play with. Depending on how long you're gone and the age of the kitten, you may also need to arrange to have at least one feeding done while you're away.

If this sounds impossible to you, it may just be that at this stage of your life you're not in a position to have a kitten. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, and it's not a criticism; I'm not a position in _my_ life to have a kitten either, even though I have two older cats who are happy and healthy. Kittens just need more, and take a lot more work.

It sounds like maybe an older cat would be better suited to your lifestyle right now. That doesn't mean you couldn't have a kitten in the future.


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## Sillycowsgomoo (Mar 4, 2013)

The only time I've seen kittens in cages is at the shelter or Petsmart when they have cats for adoption. When I got my first kitten, she was about 2 months old. For the first two to three weeks, she would stay in the bathroom when I'm at work. Only for the first few days she would cry constantly, but it was mainly because she was rescued off the streets. My second kitten had to be confined in the bathroom for majority of the day for the first two weeks while we introduced the two cats. 

Get plenty of toys for the kitten and a nice bed. Since he is a kitten, he'll probably end up sleeping most of the day. All you need to do is put the toilet lid down, and clear the floor--he won't be able to get up on the counter until maybe 5 months. When you are at home, spend time with him in the bathroom, play with him there, and feed him there. It'll let him be more comfortable in the confined space. They're not as noisy as dogs may be; they usually don't meow constantly at nothing. He'll probably meow for no more than 10 minutes, realize no one's coming for him, then do his own thing. 

After about 3 weeks, I trusted my cat to be free around the apartment. My second had a chewing problem that was fixed with some Bitter Apple spray, but my first had absolutely no problems at all. It just depends on your kitten's personality. Keep an eye on him when you are at home and he's running around the house. Keep his nails trimmed and some nice scratching posts around to protect your furniture too!


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## MowMow (Nov 6, 2010)

Tripel said:


> When I went to a reputable breeder’s residence she kept several kittens in one large cage. She had toys and their litter box inside.


If I walked into a breeders and they had enough cats that they needed to keep several in any kind of cage I would have walked right back out.

YOur bathroom is outside? How on earth would the cat get from your bathroom to the one below (unless you left the window open and had no screens). 

Considering your current living situation it would be much less cruel to buy an adult cat that doesn't NEED constant supervision. I don't think you understand the MASSIVE amount of energy a young kitten has. Toys might occupy some (not much) time but they won't burn off that excess energy that you will be forcing that kitten to contain...day in and day out. It's quite cruel and in my opinion you are going to be asking for serious behavioral issues.


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## Marcia (Dec 26, 2010)

Tripel said:


> I live in a bachelor’s apartment which is small, so I don’t have an extra room that I can close off. I do have a couple of closets, but they would be too small for it.
> I can’t keep it in my bathroom since there is a chimney structure right outside the window which leads to bathroom windows of the other apartments right below me. I don’t want my neighbors disturbed by constant meowing while I’m gone.
> Why are people so opposed to cages? When I went to a reputable breeder’s residence she kept several kittens in one large cage. She had toys and their litter box inside.
> I don’t think a cage would be cruel during the kittens first year. Letting a curios kitten roam around sounds more inhumane to me. Think about the possible dangers: electrocution, drowning, eating a foreign object, etc. Not even kitten-proofing your home can guarantee their safety. I wouldn’t want to come home to an injured kitty.
> ...


Then please reconsider getting a kitten. An older cat would do well and there are many in need of homes.


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## Jakiepoo (Jan 5, 2013)

As someone who recently adopted an adult cat, I agree, that may be the better option.

I'm not saying 5 years old or older. I adopted Jacob at 1 1/2 years and he still acts just like a playful little kitten, but is capable of taking care of himself while were away from the house for work and school, and we don't have to worry about him getting into things because he usually sleeps that time away. A young adult cat is just as fun as a kitten but requires less supervision so sounds like the perfect choice for you.


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## soccergrl76 (Dec 1, 2010)

I think an older cat would be better suited to your current lifestyle. You can get a 1 year old and they will still be playful but will be fully grown.


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## 3furbabies (Dec 7, 2011)

Please don't get a cat if its not allowed to have free roam. What's the point of getting a cat. That's animal abuse and the cat is better off in a different home. I doubt the breeder is reputable if it keeps cats in cages. Sounds like a mill or byb to me. Poor cats.


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## Tripel (Aug 5, 2012)

mumof7kitties said:


> Caging a kitten during it's first year?
> 
> Are we being punked?
> 
> ...


Punked? Read my last post. I saw something like this at a reputable breeder's home. 

http://www.supercoolpets.com/archives/2008/08/cat_cage_cat_playpen_at_drs_fo.php


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## Tripel (Aug 5, 2012)

Blakeney Green said:


> Have you considered finding a sitter to look after your kitten? When Zephyr was a baby he stayed at a friend's house when I was at work, so I didn't have to leave him unsupervised for long periods of time.
> 
> If you do have no choice but to leave your kitten alone, definitely leave out water, a litterbox, a soft place to sleep, and toys to play with. Depending on how long you're gone and the age of the kitten, you may also need to arrange to have at least one feeding done while you're away.


Thanks for the advice Blakeney Green. I'm a single guy and my family lives back east. I do not get along with the neighbors in my building, so it will be just me looking after the kitten. 

I'll add a ball of paper or foil with some other toys to keep it occupied while I am gone. I will only be away for about 8-9 hrs per day on weekdays. From what I understand, kittens do a lot of sleeping when they are that age, so I think it will be ok for that period of time. 

What do you think about this type of holding unit? 

http://www.supercoolpets.com/archives/2008/08/cat_cage_cat_playpen_at_drs_fo.php


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## Tripel (Aug 5, 2012)

Sillycowsgomoo said:


> The only time I've seen kittens in cages is at the shelter or Petsmart when they have cats for adoption. When I got my first kitten, she was about 2 months old. For the first two to three weeks, she would stay in the bathroom when I'm at work. Only for the first few days she would cry constantly, but it was mainly because she was rescued off the streets. My second kitten had to be confined in the bathroom for majority of the day for the first two weeks while we introduced the two cats.
> 
> Get plenty of toys for the kitten and a nice bed. Since he is a kitten, he'll probably end up sleeping most of the day. All you need to do is put the toilet lid down, and clear the floor--he won't be able to get up on the counter until maybe 5 months. When you are at home, spend time with him in the bathroom, play with him there, and feed him there. It'll let him be more comfortable in the confined space. They're not as noisy as dogs may be; they usually don't meow constantly at nothing. He'll probably meow for no more than 10 minutes, realize no one's coming for him, then do his own thing.
> 
> After about 3 weeks, I trusted my cat to be free around the apartment. My second had a chewing problem that was fixed with some Bitter Apple spray, but my first had absolutely no problems at all. It just depends on your kitten's personality. Keep an eye on him when you are at home and he's running around the house. Keep his nails trimmed and some nice scratching posts around to protect your furniture too!


I appreciate your advice Sillycowsgomoo.


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## Tripel (Aug 5, 2012)

MowMow said:


> If I walked into a breeders and they had enough cats that they needed to keep several in any kind of cage I would have walked right back out.
> 
> YOur bathroom is outside? How on earth would the cat get from your bathroom to the one below (unless you left the window open and had no screens).
> 
> Considering your current living situation it would be much less cruel to buy an adult cat that doesn't NEED constant supervision. I don't think you understand the MASSIVE amount of energy a young kitten has. Toys might occupy some (not much) time but they won't burn off that excess energy that you will be forcing that kitten to contain...day in and day out. It's quite cruel and in my opinion you are going to be asking for serious behavioral issues.


I did not mean to say the kitten would go to another bathroom. There is a window in my bathroom that leads to a chimney-like structure. Sounds are magnified and travel down this structure, so it would bother my neighbors if the kitten is constantly meowing. Sometimes I hear my baby's neighbor crying though it is not even in the bathroom in the lower units. I hope that clears things up.


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## Blakeney Green (Jan 15, 2013)

Honestly, leaving a kitten alone for 8-9 hours a day is pushing it. Add to that the fact that you presumably have to sleep sometimes, and that's 15 or 16 hours out of every 24 that the kitten is without interaction. That's going to be really hard on a little one, and may lead to some undesirable boredom behaviours. Kittens do sleep a lot, but they don't usually sleep continuously for a whole work day.

Most people recommend adopting kittens in pairs to give them someone to socialize with. Could that be an option for you?

It would also be nice if someone could give your kitten a feeding while you're working. Leaving out dry food works okay, but it's really not ideal. I do think a pet sitter could work for you - it doesn't have to be someone you already know. Plenty of people would be happy to make a little extra cash visiting a cute kitten over their lunch break or something. Be sure to check references before allowing someone into your home, obviously.

I hope you're not feeling too discouraged about this, but most of us who are giving advice have been there and done that raising kittens, so we're just trying to be realistic that it can be challenging in some ways.


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## Tripel (Aug 5, 2012)

3furbabies said:


> Please don't get a cat if its not allowed to have free roam. What's the point of getting a cat. That's animal abuse and the cat is better off in a different home. I doubt the breeder is reputable if it keeps cats in cages. Sounds like a mill or byb to me. Poor cats.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


It can roam free when I am home which will be after 5pm on weekdays and all day on weekends. The breeder that I visited is known and respected across the country. She is hardly running a mill lol. 

I have to disagree about a cat being kept in a cage being animal abuse. Some people are way too sensitive. It's not like I'm enclosing a human baby...oh, wait....cribs! Someone call child services on inhumane parents that temporarily confine their babies!


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## mumof7kitties (Jan 27, 2013)

Not to be offensive but why do you feel like you need a pet at this time in your life? If you're gone (working I presume) for 8-9 hrs plus whatever social life you might have, it sounds like you're not really in a spot to take on added responsibility. 


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## MowMow (Nov 6, 2010)

Tripel said:


> From what I understand, kittens do a lot of sleeping when they are that age, so I think it will be ok for that period of time.


THen you were very misinformed. I can not even imagine the problems that would have formed if I had tried to keep SHepherd Book in a cage, even a large one, when he was a young kitten/cat. He did *NOT* sleep all day and if you do force a young kitten to spend all day sleeping in a cage, playing with balls of foil and paper you are never going to be able to sleep at night again. It will spend all it's free (literally) time driving you crazy. Unless of course you plan on locking it in the cage while you sleep as well. Now kitten is looking at minimum of 13-18 hours per day in this prison. Please, don't do this to a poor kitten.

In previous threads it has been suggested to you already and at one point you agreed that a young cat was NOT ideal for you and that you would look for an older cat.

I'm not entirely sure why you continue to ask for advice if you are merely going to ignore it. 

The fact that the breeder would sell you a kitten knowing this is what you have planned for it certainly shows it is not a reputable breeder.

ETA: No, imprisoning a kitten is worse than imprisoning an infant. A baby lays there and stares at things its first months of life. A kitten is meant to run, play, and practice its hunting skills(even if not needed later in life) in its early life. It is programmed to be active and alert and you're sentencing to an early life in a space the equivalent of a jail cell. THink of yourself as a 5 or 6 year old child. HOw happy would YOU have been confined to such a small area until your parents came home from work and found time to play with you. You're confining it to an area that will be too small for it, regardless of how palatial it seems to you.


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## Tripel (Aug 5, 2012)

Blakeney Green said:


> Honestly, leaving a kitten alone for 8-9 hours a day is pushing it. Add to that the fact that you presumably have to sleep sometimes, and that's 15 or 16 hours out of every 24 that the kitten is without interaction. That's going to be really hard on a little one, and may lead to some undesirable boredom behaviours. Kittens do sleep a lot, but they don't usually sleep continuously for a whole work day.
> 
> Most people recommend adopting kittens in pairs to give them someone to socialize with. Could that be an option for you?
> 
> ...


With the exception of a few posters in this thread, I find your advice very informative. I appreciate it. Anyway, it comes down to finances. I don't have the money to buy a 3 bedroom house nor do I have the money to get another kitten. I would have to pay twice as much for vet bills, food, toys, cat litter etc. I'm working with what I have. Thanks for the tips!


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## Tripel (Aug 5, 2012)

mumof7kitties said:


> Not to be offensive but why do you feel like you need a pet at this time in your life? If you're gone (working I presume) for 8-9 hrs plus whatever social life you might have, it sounds like you're not really in a spot to take on added responsibility.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


What is your situation? Are you a housewife that can stay at home all day with your 7 cats while your husband works? Some of us have to work for a living. Not all of us can sit at home all day and expect our bills to be paid. I am tired of being criticized for having a job and wanting a pet. One can have both.


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## NebraskaCat (Jan 15, 2013)

Tripel,

I appreciate you taking the time to read all the advice proferred. It was all sound advice, but it was coming fast and furious there for a while and seemed a little bit of an onslaught. But the points everyone was making were valid.

I have a similar situation. My condo is a very open design and I'm the only person. The only closable room is the bathroom, which is small.

If I were introducing a new cat (presuming I didn't have the cats I have), I would confine him to the bathroom while I was away and let him explore when I got home. But this would only be for the first few days when he was new to get him acclimated. After that, he would have full run of the condo. I would just make sure to limit hazards. (There are good threads in this forum about safeguarding electrical cords, which houseplants are toxic, not to leave string or fishing line lying about, keeping kitchen counters free of food, hiding plastic bags, etc.)

I am away 10-11 hours/day for work and my cats stay by themselves quite nicely during that time. I provide toys, comfortable bedding, scratching posts, climbing trees, clean litter boxes for them to use. Neither of my cats has died of loneliness during the 10 hour stretch.

That being said, I adopted adults and I adopted two cats. It sounds like you are already locked in on a single young kitten, which will be more of a challenge, but I think he can learn to figure out life in the apartment for 8-9 hours without having a cage.

I second the vote of a second kitten. It's a little more upfront for the adoption fee, but the day-to-day cost for food/litter shouldn't be much.

I wish you well with your new little friend.


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## MowMow (Nov 6, 2010)

Tripel said:


> I am tired of being criticized for having a job and wanting a pet. One can have both.


This is absolutely true. The *PROPER* pet. When I adopted MowMow I worked a full 8 hour day. I lived alone and couldn't have a dog and wanted company. So, I adopted an ADULT cat that could look out for itself and was old enough to amuse itself safely while I was at work all day.

Then, when I adopted Shepherd Book I assessed my situation and decided that they could keep each other company during the day and play and that MowMow would help me raise a kitten properly.

Most of us aren't saying you shouldn't get a pet, but that it's not FAIR to a young kitten to be brought into a place that doesn't give it the best chance for a wonderful life. I would certainly hope you want your pet to have a wonderful life.


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## Jakiepoo (Jan 5, 2013)

No, totally understandable to want a pet and to work full time, that's the way the world has to work today and that's ok. 

I could understand confining a kitten for the first little bit of its time with you in that cage, the same way you would if you were to confine it into a bathroom or whatever bedroom, just while it gets used to the new surroundings, BUT, I don't think that should be permanent.

I'd say, once your kitten is used to the house (and you'll know when it is) the cage would need to go, same as having a dog. People crate train them while they're at work until they can trust the dog to have free reign of the house, nothing wrong with that either, I see no difference with doing this to a kitten.

I do think you should put some consideration into a cat that is a year or older. They still have the kitten energy, are still very young (when you consider a cat living for 12 years or more) but are more trustworthy to leave around the house. They'll still get into things, but it won't be too bad. 

I can understand wanting a kitten, and not wanting adult cats. My mom didn't want to adopt an adult cat at first because she was worried it wouldn't feel like "ours", but she couldn't be happier with our decision. 

But if it's a kitten you insist on, cage training your cat is ok, same as a safe room so long as there's food water and a litter box in there, but it shouldn't be your permanent solution, just until you can trust the kitten not to get into too much trouble while your away.

But yes, if possible, I suggest adopting in pairs if only because this will keep them from getting into trouble with things around the house.


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## purr machine (Dec 17, 2012)

Tripel,

m and my husband both work a lot, he is away for about 10 hours a day, I do 8 hour shifts, and sometimes 12 hour shifts as well. My kittens are totally fine on their own. They do not suffer in any way, and it is perfectly normal for people to work and have pets, I have no idea why that would be an issue.. I see more issues when people do not work at all frankly... Cats seem to be independent creatures, they are good with spending time with you after work and being happy. Maybe get a bird feeder and keep it outside window for entertainment. 
Both my kittens had a full access to all the rooms in the house since day one, and I had no problem with that. By 2nd day my first kitten was navigating it well, and the second one was fine since the minute she got into the apartment.

I live in a small one bedroom apartment as well, and would hate for my kittens to meow too much too loud for the neighbors sake, and my kittens absolutely hate being confined to one tiny space. They scream a lot, when locked anywhere... So this is something for you to consider if you are thinking of getting a cage. Also, if I were you, I would not want to add a bulky wire thing to your bachelor appartment.. would take up too much space... Breeders often keep cages to keep their litter of kittens and mom cats straight, they have a different goal than you...

I did not have to modify our living space much. They are really smart little creatures, I've just hidden some wires, and covered other wires, and... don't leave glass or knifes in their reach... Just basic stuff. 



I thought I would be ok with one kitten, but after having him for 3 months I had to get another one to keep him company. Actually his behavior and eating much improved since the arrival of the new kitten. But if this is not an option for you, that is fine as well. Second kitten will not need extra toys, they are ok sharing, but vet checkups and food bills do double.


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## Tripel (Aug 5, 2012)

Jakiepoo said:


> No, totally understandable to want a pet and to work full time, that's the way the world has to work today and that's ok.
> 
> I could understand confining a kitten for the first little bit of its time with you in that cage, the same way you would if you were to confine it into a bathroom or whatever bedroom, just while it gets used to the new surroundings, BUT, I don't think that should be permanent.
> 
> ...


 Hello, Jakiepoo.
I just got back from meeting my future vet. She does not think there is anything wrong with my plan. I told her that some people on this board were in panic mode and actually called my plan “animal abuse” and that the kitten should roam free. She smiled and laughed and said yeah just let the kitten wander around, chew a cord and get electrocuted (as I suggested it might earlier in the thread). Every plan involves risks. But I’ll trust an animal doctor’s advice over some frantic cat lover’s any day. She was just concerned about the kitten getting caught in the cage openings. 



I’ll pick one with very narrow openings to prevent that from happening. 
I like your idea. I will let it out of its cage while I’m at work once it proves that it is not going to be destructive or do something stupid to injure itself. I look forward to future interactions with you and the other kind posters in this thread. 
- Tripel


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## 3furbabies (Dec 7, 2011)

Tripel said:


> What is your situation? Are you a housewife that can stay at home all day with your 7 cats while your husband works? Some of us have to work for a living. Not all of us can sit at home all day and expect our bills to be paid. I am tired of being criticized for having a job and wanting a pet. One can have both.


Most people here work full time. Both me and my boyfriend work full time, but we also have 3 cats to keep each other company and they all have free rein of the house. The two youngest cats are almost 2 and still spend the majority of the time chasing each other, playing, etc. if you only get one kitten and leave it locked up all day. The cage will be over turned when you return and for the whole evening/night the cat will run around being super hyper and destroying your apartment. That is the simple truth, the you will be back here seeking advice on how to rehome your kitten.

I agree with others, look into an older cat. I adopted a 6 y/o cat, she is still playful but is very mellow which would be better for your situation. 


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## Tripel (Aug 5, 2012)

purr machine said:


> Tripel,
> 
> m and my husband both work a lot, he is away for about 10 hours a day, I do 8 hour shifts, and sometimes 12 hour shifts as well. My kittens are totally fine on their own. They do not suffer in any way, and it is perfectly normal for people to work and have pets, I have no idea why that would be an issue.. I see more issues when people do not work at all frankly... Cats seem to be independent creatures, they are good with spending time with you after work and being happy. Maybe get a bird feeder and keep it outside window for entertainment.
> Both my kittens had a full access to all the rooms in the house since day one, and I had no problem with that. By 2nd day my first kitten was navigating it well, and the second one was fine since the minute she got into the apartment.
> ...


Thank you for your insight and advice purr machine. There isn't much going on outside my window since it faces my buildings courtyard. Are cats stimulated by television? I heard that a radio keeps them engaged. I could leave one of those on while I am gone. What do you think?


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## lovetimesfour (Dec 1, 2010)

Tripel said:


> Thanks for the advice Blakeney Green. I'm a single guy and my family lives back east. I do not get along with the neighbors in my building, so it will be just me looking after the kitten.
> 
> I'll add a ball of paper or foil with some other toys to keep it occupied while I am gone. I will only be away for about 8-9 hrs per day on weekdays. From what I understand, kittens do a lot of sleeping when they are that age, so I think it will be ok for that period of time.
> 
> ...


Kittens don't do a lot of sleeping. Kittens go and go and go and go. As the others have said keeping a kitten in a cage 9 hours a day is cruel and abusive.

Do not give the kitten balls of foil to play with. Aluminum foil is not a safe thing for a kitten to have. The kitten will chew on it and swallow pieces which will cause a lot of damage inside the kitten.

Please call the kitten her or him, not it. You don't seem to realize that this kitten is not a toy or a...knick knack. Kittens are living breathing feeling beings. They have physcial and emotional and mental needs, just like humans and other animals.

"reputable" breeders don't keep animals in cages for long periods of time. And 9 hours a day is much too long.

Kittens need to run and climb and jump. They need socialization and much attention. If you keep her/him locked up all day, alone, s/he is going to cry all night, and you will be back here wanting to know what is wrong.

Please, don't do this.


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## purr machine (Dec 17, 2012)

Tripel said:


> Thank you for your insight and advice purr machine. There isn't much going on outside my window since it faces my buildings courtyard. Are cats stimulated by television? I heard that a radio keeps them engaged. I could leave one of those on while I am gone. What do you think?


My cats hate noise and radio  And are not interested in TV at all.. so it depends on a cat I guess. Mine are 5 months old and 2 months old.


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

I've had 4 kittens in my life and I worked long hours (10+) when I got every one of them and they all managed to survive. 

Since this is your first cat, I don't have a problem with the idea of confining it for a while until you figure out what kind of trouble it tends to get into and do additional cat proofing. But imo, that is several weeks...not the whole first year. I would prefer to see you confining to the bathroom rather than a cage and would suggest that you test the kitten and see if it really does yowl for long periods of time. If it becomes a problem, then resort to the cage. Although if it yowls in the bathroom...you can bet it will do the same in a cage. 

As for breeders using cages...of course they need to. Holly's breeder kept the mom & kittens in a segregated area of her bedroom until they were 6 weeks old. Then she brought them downstairs to give them more run of the house and socialization. But there is no way she would let a bunch of 6-12 week old kittens have the run of the place when she had to go out, which included working. The mom & kittens would confined to cage just like the one the OP posted. The kittens viewed it as home base and would go in it to nap even when they had complete freedom. No different than a crate trained dog (Jake loves his crates, he has one on each floor, and goes in them on his own...he sleeps in one every night even though he now has complete freedom to go where he wants).


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## purr machine (Dec 17, 2012)

Wanted to add, that when I had one kitten he would sleep in his place and just go for food and back to sleep while I was gone. Most of the trouble happens when you are at home


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## love.my.cats (Jan 29, 2009)

Triple, I agree to an extent with alot of people's concerns but I have used an extra large playpen to keep kitties separated when we had a one bedroom apartment and no way of closing off certain areas. I personally would go for something alot bigger than the cage you posted the link for and I wouldn't recommend using it for a whole year. I used one of these: http://www.onlineu.com.au/product_detail.php?pID=10805 (they have a zip top and I fit a scratch post, litter tray and heaps of food. It was big enough for small kittens to play but I would not expect an older kitty to be content in there. Actually, Jett didn't accept it at all - he screamed to get out from day 1. A few months later, we had some unsocial colony kittens that we fostered that spent a month or so in there. It's ideal to not have to lock them in such a small space but if you're going to do it, please use the biggest pen possible. What concerns me a little is you said you didn't want kitty in bathroom as it may annoy the neighbours with meowing. You've also mentioned you don't get on well with the neighbours - if you have a vocal kitten/cat, the neighbours are likely going to hear it because they can be VERY loud when they cry. If your kitty gets used to roaming free while you're home, it will likely scream while you're not home to be let out, especially once it starts getting a little older. This could cause even more trouble with the neighbours. Just something else to consider. 


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## Jakiepoo (Jan 5, 2013)

The one thing I don't totally understand is, how big are some of your bathrooms? Because mine isn't very big, but is about as big as most of my friends bathrooms, and half of these pens wouldn't fit in there, they'd be too big what with the tub, the sink, and the toilet. 

I do get wanting the biggest pen possible of course, it only makes since if your kitten will be confined there for multiple hours of the day, they need some space. Wouldn't the multi-teared cage add a level of fun for the kitten? Jumping and tumbling from the different levels, not to mention it adds extra space.

Though the bathroom might have a more homey, human feel, I don't think the space will be that much of an issue in terms of bathroom or cage.


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## mumof7kitties (Jan 27, 2013)

Not only am I NOT a stay at home mom, but I'm working full time, going to veterinary medical school full time and foster human children. The difference between my situation and yours is that I have several cats and dogs that keep each other company when nobody is home.

I did say that I wasn't meaning to be offensive...but obviously you took offense anyway. Why a kitten? Why not an adult cat?


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## Blakeney Green (Jan 15, 2013)

Tripel said:


> She smiled and laughed and said yeah just let the kitten wander around, chew a cord and get electrocuted (as I suggested it might earlier in the thread).


The part I think you're not understanding (and I realize it's hard to get it when you haven't actually been responsible for a kitten yet) is that this kind of thing can _also_ happen when you turn your back to stir something on the stove, or when you get distracted by the ringing phone, or even when you're standing right there and the kitten just takes a whim to go get into mischief. 

Confining the cat while you are gone does _not_ replace kitten-proofing. If there's something dangerous for your kitten to get into, the kitten will get into it even when you're home. It literally only takes seconds for your kitten to get hurt. 

To give a sad example of this, a kitten I once knew died a horrible death with her owner and several other people standing about two feet away, because nobody could reach her before she managed to get into the mechanism of the recliner chair. Accidents are not always the result of long stretches of unsupervised time; they happen in the blink of an eye.

That being the case, I don't see why you would need to confine the kitten for most of the day almost every day for a year.

When you first bring the kitten home, yes, absolutely. Zephyr lived in my bathroom for his first few days home. That gives the kitten time to get used to living with you, and for you to identify any hazards during supervised playtime.

After that, though? Cord protectors, don't leave stuff out, etc. Your kitten will quickly learn the ropes of his or her household, and as long as you stay vigilant about things that could be dangerous, your kitten should be fine.

It's totally possible to work and have pets. Heck, when Zephyr was a kitten, I was working and also in school. It's just that sometimes you have to change your expectations a little, when other living creatures with their own needs are involved.

Can I ask why you're so set on a kitten? I don't mean that in a snarky or critical way, it just doesn't make sense to me, and if you could explain your thought process to us maybe we could be of more help. It seems like an adult cat would be _much_ better suited to your current situation, so I'm curious about why that's not something you're considering.


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## Catmamma (Apr 18, 2011)

There are some neat toys you can get. One of them is a ring with a ball inside that the cat can try to get out. Rotate the toys so he/she won't get totally bored with them. I also find that leaving the radio on soothed my kitten when she was little. Depends on the station though. No bright lights directly on the kitten. Soft towels or wash cloths also helped her. I think after a short while, you will be comfortable letting your young cat free access to the house. Try to get your cat on a 
Friday so she/he has all weekend to adjust. Talk to it a lot. Good luck and have a good time with your cat. Send us pictures, please.


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## Blakeney Green (Jan 15, 2013)

Oh, I forgot to mention - I can only speak for my own cats, but they have very little interest in TV. I think if you left it on all day, it would be more of an annoyance to your neighbours than a benefit to your cat.


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## Jakiepoo (Jan 5, 2013)

Yeah, as far as TV's and things go, Jacob is only interested in them when we're using them and not paying attention to him. If the TV is just on he wont bother with it.


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## Tripel (Aug 5, 2012)

love.my.cats said:


> Triple, I agree to an extent with alot of people's concerns but I have used an extra large playpen to keep kitties separated when we had a one bedroom apartment and no way of closing off certain areas. I personally would go for something alot bigger than the cage you posted the link for and I wouldn't recommend using it for a whole year. I used one of these: Large Portable Pet Tent Exercise Playpen Dog Cage 8 Panel (they have a zip top and I fit a scratch post, litter tray and heaps of food. It was big enough for small kittens to play but I would not expect an older kitty to be content in there. Actually, Jett didn't accept it at all - he screamed to get out from day 1. A few months later, we had some unsocial colony kittens that we fostered that spent a month or so in there. It's ideal to not have to lock them in such a small space but if you're going to do it, please use the biggest pen possible. What concerns me a little is you said you didn't want kitty in bathroom as it may annoy the neighbours with meowing. You've also mentioned you don't get on well with the neighbours - if you have a vocal kitten/cat, the neighbours are likely going to hear it because they can be VERY loud when they cry. If your kitty gets used to roaming free while you're home, it will likely scream while you're not home to be let out, especially once it starts getting a little older. This could cause even more trouble with the neighbours. Just something else to consider.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


 Hello, love.my.cats. I will look into something like the play pen you posted. I am just concerned that the walls won’t be high enough to keep an 8 week old kitten from jumping out. But based on what I am hearing, they don’t have that capability until they are a few months old. They also like to see where they are landing when they leap over something. 


As I mentioned, the cat that I am getting will only be 8 weeks old. I have watched a few youtube clips of cats that age mewing because they are hungry. They aren’t that loud. I did an experiment today. I played the clip of the kittens mewing and turned it up as loud as my speakers could go. I went outside of my apartment, but I couldn’t hear them. The kitten I’m getting will probably do the same for a while. But it can scream as loud as it wants while I’m gone as long as it is in the center of my apartment, not by a window. Once it realizes nobody is going to let it out, it should quiet down. If necessary, I can also turn on my fan to drown out its cries. 
I appreciate the advice I’m getting. I won’t keep it locked up for a year as planned. I’ll see how things go for a month and go from there. Thanks.


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## love.my.cats (Jan 29, 2009)

Just make sure whatever you buy has a top. The pen I have has a mesh top that zips up to prevent them climbing out. While an 8 week old kitten isn't likely to jump that high, they are still really good at climbing so a pen with an open top would be a no go in my opinion.


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## Tripel (Aug 5, 2012)

Blakeney Green said:


> The part I think you're not understanding (and I realize it's hard to get it when you haven't actually been responsible for a kitten yet) is that this kind of thing can _also_ happen when you turn your back to stir something on the stove, or when you get distracted by the ringing phone, or even when you're standing right there and the kitten just takes a whim to go get into mischief.
> 
> Confining the cat while you are gone does _not_ replace kitten-proofing. If there's something dangerous for your kitten to get into, the kitten will get into it even when you're home. It literally only takes seconds for your kitten to get hurt.
> 
> ...


 I don’t want a used cat. I want one of my own that I can rear from its youth. By purchasing a kitten from a breeder, I can be sure that it doesn’t have any health or personality defects that will cost me extra money in the future. If I get an older cat, that will not be guaranteed. I don’t know its history, so that would be a bigger gamble.


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## Tripel (Aug 5, 2012)

Catmamma said:


> There are some neat toys you can get. One of them is a ring with a ball inside that the cat can try to get out. Rotate the toys so he/she won't get totally bored with them. I also find that leaving the radio on soothed my kitten when she was little. Depends on the station though. No bright lights directly on the kitten. Soft towels or wash cloths also helped her. I think after a short while, you will be comfortable letting your young cat free access to the house. Try to get your cat on a
> Friday so she/he has all weekend to adjust. Talk to it a lot. Good luck and have a good time with your cat. Send us pictures, please.


Thanks for the encouragement Catmamma. Is there a specific forum for posting photos of new kittens?


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## Blakeney Green (Jan 15, 2013)

Tripel said:


> I don’t want a used cat. I want one of my own that I can rear from its youth. By purchasing a kitten from a breeder, I can be sure that it doesn’t have any health or personality defects that will cost me extra money in the future. If I get an older cat, that will not be guaranteed. I don’t know its history, so that would be a bigger gamble.


...Okay, I did not see this one coming. I admittedly asked, and I appreciate that you answered honestly.

That said, I do not think your expectations sound realistic. There is no such thing as a perfect cat. Any cat is going to cost you money in the future - pets are just expensive, period. Health and personality are _never_ "guaranteed" for life.

I have nothing more to contribute to this conversation, so good luck and enjoy your new pet.


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## Carmel (Nov 23, 2010)

Tripel said:


> I don’t want a used cat. I want one of my own that I can rear from its youth. By purchasing a kitten from a breeder, I can be sure that it doesn’t have any health or personality defects that will cost me extra money in the future. If I get an older cat, that will not be guaranteed. I don’t know its history, so that would be a bigger gamble.


The first kitten I got at a young age died at 3... struvite crystals. The second kitten I got (Blaze) had behavior problems; random biting and spraying despite being neutered, but oh yes he's a healthy cat at 17 years old. Hah. Meanwhile, I have Blacky and Jasper that I took off the street and while I've only had Jasper around for a few months (and he plays fetch like a dog!), Blacky has been healthy for over 10 years. Getting an older cats means you're getting something with a set personality, you know what you're getting. Getting a kitten? No so much. Their personality changes as they mature. Breed description is not a guarantee... at _all_. And they are a huge handful.

Something I'd worry about with a kitten that's been caged at a breeders is the possibility of less human interaction in their formative weeks. My aunt got a cat from a breeder like this... she's the most skittish thing ever, and has a lot of health issues. Also cats at a breeder or shelter are there for a limited time; a few weeks, a few months. The goal is to get them into a home so they don't have to be subjected to a cage any longer. Being kept in a cage for hours at a time when you are a young animal full of energy isn't kind. Unlike dogs and kennel training (required often as they take months to paper train) a cat learns the ins and outs of a litter box and usually fine on its own without being destructive by the time you adopt it. 

I still don't understand why a bathroom is not something you can consider. Surely it has a door?

Getting a kitten from a breeder is not a guarantee of anything, personality or heath-wise. Often they can some with problems due to living with so many other cats; worms, ringworm, or due to being purebreds, can tend to get certain ailments that random bred cats don't get as often -- allergies to food seem like a huge thing I hear about in purebred animals and not so much in the rest. I've also read they are at higher odds of getting FIP (a 100% killer), although a very unlikely event.


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## Weezle (Mar 3, 2013)

A used cat? That's such a horrible attitude to have toward animals. They are not cars or property, they are companions. The bond I have formed with my rescue cats is very strong and none of them were kittens when I got them. Believe me, older cats can be just as loving as any kitten. 

You also can not predict whether a cat will have health problems or not, even if you purchase the kitten from a breeder. 

Oh, and cats all have different personalities. That also can not be predicted or dictated by a breeder. 


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## Zilla (Oct 29, 2012)

Weezle said:


> A used cat? That's such a horrible attitude to have toward animals. They are not cars or property, they are companions. The bond I have formed with my rescue cats is very strong and none of them were kittens when I got them. Believe me, older cats can be just as loving as any kitten.
> 
> You also can not predict whether a cat will have health problems or not, even if you purchase the kitten from a breeder.
> 
> ...


Been watching this convo and after that comment had to say something.... I completely second weezle... First off as she said a cat is not a piece of "used" property. I can tell you think of pets as an object because of a previous comment you made about how people were freaking out and said "its not like I'm confining human children.." News flash but it might as well be the same thing because to me it IS THE SAME.... Pets arnt accessory items that you can dispose of and not have a care in the world about doing it. Secondly in my opinion.... Your going to create the personality you DONT want in a cat because your going to confine one lonely 8 week old to a cage and when he does get let out he's going to be crazy and he's going to develop that trouble personality..... And its going to be no ones fault but your own.... Personality doesn't come from no breeder kitten guarantee non sense. It comes straight from you.... Same thing as everyone saying Pitbulls are mean.... Its not their fault... The blame is squarely on the owner end of story... The fact you would even use the phrase "I don't want a used cat" is appalling really.... There is completely nothing wrong with an older cat... you would be saving a life adopting from a shelter!! What's more satisfying than that and why wouldn't someone want to do that??? I'm sorry I just don't understand.... 


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## Zilla (Oct 29, 2012)

Skeeter my siamese came from a kill shelter and he is the MOST SWEETEST cat I've ever owned... Hands down. He is a total cuddlier. He's right next to me every night and every time I nap. He does the little squeaky purr noise too when he talks to me. When my husband and I sometimes argue and I'm upset about it, Skeeter knows it and comes over to squeak at me and to rub his face on mine... If someone can find a sweeter cat than that from a breeder than let me know because I don't think it's possible... :|


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

Any breeder that's going to give you a kitten at 8 weeks old is NOT a responsible breeder in my opinion. If you think listening to a Youtube video on your computer speakers will give you an idea of how loud a kitten can be, you are sadly, sadly mistaken. 

And getting a kitten and thinking you can mold him into the personality you want? o.m.g. I've had the twinz since they were kittens and they are bratz. Pure and simple. Yup. HUGE personality "defects". I have to keep breakable things put away, they can get into my cupboards at will, even baby-proofed. I wouldn't have it any other way, they keep me on my toes and make me laugh every single day. 

Getting ONE kitten and putting all that energy in a cage. Good luck on what _that_ personality will turn out to be. I would take a BIG step back when opening the cage door.

And nobody is suggesting you adopt a 15-year old cat with health issues. An *adult* cat could be as young as one year old. Shelters are full of them. Especially cats labeled as "must be only cat" - this just means for whatever reason, they do best alone. I think_ that_ type of *adult* cat is what people are suggesting would be better.

Cinderella was adopted as an adult. At the wretched old age of 4. She was the kindest, most gentle cat I've ever known. Cleo was adopted as an adult, too. She was pretty much perfect until the arrival of the twinz.


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

Some of your posts from last year:



Tripel said:


> Since this will be about a 15 year commitment, I'm really concerned about my future pet's personality. I don't want an introvert that does nothing but sit around, hides, eats, and sleeps. *That's no way to show gratitude* to someone that is feeding it, keeping it safe, and giving it a home. *I prefer a pet that is interactive and playful. *


Then don't keep him in a CAGE. And good luck on receiving those "thank you" notes. If I'm lucky, I get hairballs that spell out "whatever".



Tripel said:


> Hello. Over the weekend I went to see some Scottish Fold kittens at a breeder's home. When I arrived, the kittens ran away and hid under couches and behind other furniture. The breeder told me it was because they did not know me.
> 
> I gently picked a few of them up to examine their eyes, ears, feet, and fur to make sure they were healthy.


Wow, I don't think even breeders have these special powers.


and finally THIS one:



Tripel said:


> I don't think I want to gamble, so it looks like I'll be looking for an older cat.


 
so, now you're back to _gambling_ on a kitten?


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## mumof7kitties (Jan 27, 2013)

I'm back to my initial assessment. I think this guy is a troller who visits pet forums, posts crap to get everyone riled up and then disappears again for a while. 

We are being punked. 

This guy/child has no more interest in owning a cat than he does eating a pile of steaming horse pucky. 


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

He did mention last year, when it was suggested that maybe he should get a dog, that a dog is what he WANTS, but where he lives, it's not allowed, so he's looking into cats. Or kittens. Or adults. Or kittens.....


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## Carmel (Nov 23, 2010)

I'd also like to add that while a good breeder will test for certain genetic problems, they cannot test for everything. Almost every purebred I know has had some problem, here are a few of them (yeah mostly dogs): Basset - skin allergies, Dalmation - rage (genetic), Rottie - hip problems starting as a puppy, Springer Spaniel - arthritis starting as a puppy and died of cancer (leading cause of death in that breed), Havanese - needed back surgery, Balinese - terrible gum/teeth issues (far more likely in this breed), Poodles - died young of heart conditions & another cancer... were they all from great breeders? Not all of them, some of them were however.

The thing is, it can be super hard to tell who is a good breeder and who isn't. A regular person can't tell, outside of a few red flags; cages, too many animals in the home, unsanitary conditions, not allowed to visit the animals, breeding multiple breeds, lower price than you'd expect.

A little while back I looked into Poodles, just for something to do. I found one in the area with a great website, seemed legitimate, health testing and everything, free run of certain areas of the house once they were safe to do so and spaying/neutering before they left the breeder. I dug a little deeper and realised there were a lot of shady things going on... breeding Standards to Miniatures the biggest of them all. They also appeared to have no idea on genetics (I didn't either but the person listing the issues with them did) since they were essentially diluting the red coat gene in how they were breeding their dogs. My lesson learned there was that health testing and a few year health guarantee does not equal a proper breeder.


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

Tripel said:


> I don’t want a used cat. I want one of my own that I can rear from its youth. By purchasing a kitten from a breeder, I can be sure that it doesn’t have any health or personality defects that will cost me extra money in the future. If I get an older cat, that will not be guaranteed. I don’t know its history, so that would be a bigger gamble.


A "used cat"...what an idiotic concept. The rest of this post is also incredibly naive. There is no guarantee when you get a kitten...from anywhere. Yes breeders provide health guarantees, but imo they're totally useless....if the cat develops a genetic health problem they will take the cat back and give you a new one. It's not like they will pay the cat's medical bills for you. For most people, they're not going to give up the cat they've grown very attached to for the last couple years because it developed a genetic health defect. But with your used car approach to getting a cat...I guess you would be fine with that. 

Also, a breeder who will place a kitten at 8 weeks old is not a reputable breeder. I believe that both CFA & TICA require that kittens be kept with their mom until 12 weeks old. If your breeder is not a member of these organizations, then they are a back yard breeder. If they are a member and violate the rules...then what other good breeding practices are they short cutting? 

I have no idea why you want any sort of a pet, I can't imagine you forming any sort of emotional attachment...


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## Marcia (Dec 26, 2010)

Tripel writes "I don’t want a used cat. I want one of my own that I can rear from its youth."

Each cat is different and you will not affect it's basic personality. If he wants to be aloof as an adult he will be. If he doesn't like being held or a lap cat he won't be. Period. A "used" cat - implying there is something defective?? You should be ashamed of yourself for even uttering those words.


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## MowMow (Nov 6, 2010)

Well, I think that I'm going to go cuddle with my 'used' cat. He's had his breakfast and is chirping for me to come cuddle him and smother me with grateful face smashes because I rescued him from the shelter as a 4 year old model.

FIrst I have to go clean up all the stuff that the kitten (the one I got 'new' a year and a half ago) broke while I was asleep last night. Still, it's not like I have anything expensive or good left for him to break. He broke most of that when he was a kitten and NOT sleeping all day.....and all of it while I was home....watching him.....despite hours of interactive play with toys that weren't human garbage tossed to him for entertainment. Go figure.


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## Jakiepoo (Jan 5, 2013)

The used cat view is not completely new to me. It's the way my mom felt before adopting Jake, and the way I figured this guy felt, thought my mom didn't word it quite that way. She was afraid an adult cat with a previous home wouldn't feel like "ours".

Let me tell you, if she were on this forum right now she would have something completely different to tell you. What you can't guarantee is the personality of a KITTEN. Almost all kittens are playful, troublesome little buggers, that's what a kitten is, you won't know what kind of adult cat you have until it's an adult. Cats are NOTHING like dogs. They don't respond to stern discipline unless they want to (not joking, last night was the first time Jake ever responded to us trying to firmly and loudly tell him to stop scratching the couch).

An adult cat personality is set in stone basically, what you see is what you get. Or you can always ask shelter workers what to expect with each certain cat, they'll know.

The kitten we adopted before? She was the cutest, most playful, perfect little kitten, climbing up our pant legs and being so sweet. When she grew up? She was the nastiest cat you could ever hope to meet, but we got her as a kitten! Even after building trust as a kitten, as soon as she grew up I had to rebuild the trust, and she still wasn't a grateful lovebug to us. Why should she?

The adult cat we adopted, Jake, he was the complete opposite. He was a little aloof at the shelter, sort of investigated us than when to his little corner of the cat room. There were cats plenty more friendly in that room. But after having convinced my mom to go for an adult cat (I had been thinking 3 or over, but I didn't want to push that on her) she wanted to have a big hand in picking the cat out, and she wanted him, he was a 1 1/2. 

Adopting an adult compared to a kitten? He is the biggest goofball, cuddle bug I have ever met. He gets into so many thinks. Steals my stuff, knocks things over, and all around runs around like a nut bar. I can see why another family might have given him up, if I look at him without a bias, he's a little Lucifer who has some biting issues with huge canines, but he is perfect! And as far as being grateful goes? The moment we let him out of his box the day we adopted him and he looked around this new house he was rubbing against us and checking things out! So excited to have the run of the place.

The one thing you'll never guarantee? Health, anything can happen, whether a bred or shelter cat, there is no guarantee. So if you aren't willing to have a potentially very expensively sick cat, don't get one. Period.

Either way, good luck on your kitty ventures.


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## Tripel (Aug 5, 2012)

marie73 said:


> so, now you're back to _gambling_ on a kitten?


Yes. I sent the breeder my deposit and will be picking up the kitten in about two weeks. Pictures to follow.


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## mumof7kitties (Jan 27, 2013)

Horse pucky. 


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## MowMow (Nov 6, 2010)

mumof7kitties said:


> Horse pucky.


At this point, I agree. Must be a troll because no one could be this ignorant.


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## Blakeney Green (Jan 15, 2013)

Pets are living creatures with needs and feelings. It bothers and upsets me to hear you talk about them like they're just decorative commodities to fit your desires, Tripel.

I had to take a break from this topic because I was so angry last night. It's one thing to be an inexperienced kitten owner who needs some help figuring things out, but the "used" cats comment was incredibly unkind, and insulting to a lot of the much-loved pets in our families. 

I assure you that both my cats are very much _my own_, even though Zephyr was from a shelter and Maisie was a stray who came to me at two years old. 

It's valid to make your own choices for your own reasons, but you need to be careful about belittling others in the process.

If you do end up getting a kitten, I really hope (for the kitten's sake) that you will love him or her. I'm just not seeing a lot of love for your potential pet in your posts - especially in the most recent few. I think you need to adjust your attitude from a purchasing mentality to an openness to welcoming a new family member. Pets have minds and emotions of their own and don't just conform to their owners' desires all the time, no matter where they come from.


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

This thread is done....


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