# Two Playful Boys - Need Introduction Advice



## hlwood (Jun 19, 2015)

Hello everyone. I am very inexperienced when it comes to cats, so I need some help and advice. I currently have two males - both about a year old and both fixed. We have had our resident cat, Roderick, since he was a tiny baby. He crawled up out of the woods all alone one day, and we have had him ever since. He is a VERY playful boy....rarely aggressive (unless you are trying to trim his claws ); he just likes to play a lot and play rough. My boyfriend and I live in an apartment and work the typical 9-5 type deal, so by the time we get home at night, he is wound up and bouncing off the walls. We had been thinking for the past few months that he would benefit by having a friend to keep him company and play with throughout the day. 
About a month ago, we just so happened to run across a local rescue organization that had some kitties up for adoption. We explained the mannerisms of Roderick to one of the workers, and she thought that Tristan would be a good fit for him, since they are about the same age, and he too is very playful. After thinking about it over the weekend, we decided to submit the application for Tristan. Three people had already been turned down for him, so when we were accepted, it seemed like fate!
Like I said before, I have never really had a cat, much less two, so I did a lot of research on the introduction process before bringing Tristan home. We set up Tristan’s base camp in our bedroom, complete with food, water, litter box, scratching pad, and toys. The next day, we started feeding them on either side of the bedroom door, and they did perfect. From Day 1, they have never had problems eating right up next to each other. No signs of fear or aggression whatsoever. After almost a week of doing this, we put up a baby gate and let them see each while they ate. Again, no issues at all. They chowed down like they didn’t even realize the other one was there! Also, from the beginning, we have swapped them out for several hours each day so that Tristan could roam the rest of the apartment.
After about a week and a half of things going well, we decided to let them eat together with no barrier in between them. They ate; all was good. They sniffed around and swatted at each other a little afterwards, but Tristan mainly stayed up on the top rung of the cat tree that my boyfriend built. We repeated this same process for another day or two, but then things started going downhill. My problem is, I can’t figure out what is play and what is aggression. There haven’t been any knock-down drag-outs with fur flying and lots of screaming, but they definitely were rolling around pretty rough and there was some yelping. We separated them when this happened, and have kept them isolated from each other ever since (except for mealtimes). 
When they are in separate rooms, they constantly play with each other’s paws underneath the door. The claws aren’t out; they are making those cute little whining bird-like noises. But then we get them in the same room with each other, and they immediately start rumbling. The problem is that Roderick is so worked up about Tristan that he can hardly stand it. Therefore, any time Tristan makes a move, Roderick feels the need to be right behind him chasing him. Tristan doesn’t like that, and thus they start rolling around. We’ve been trying to redirect Roderick’s attention with toys and treats, but he just isn’t having it. Tristan can’t move without Roderick moving also.
My gut tells me that they are just two rough-housing boys going at it, but I don’t want anyone to get hurt. And I don’t want Tristan to get scared and never want to come out of our bedroom again (although I do believe that Tristan can hold his own, even though Roderick is a little bigger). Cats need to establish some kind of pecking order, right? Am I just prolonging the inevitable by separating them when they start going at it? Or am I doing the right thing?
I know I just essentially wrote a novel, and I have about 15 different problems/issues in these paragraphs, but I would appreciate any advice/wisdom/recommendations that yall can provide. Or some reassurance that I’m going down the right path with my approach. I love both of my boys, and I just want to see them live in harmony!


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## NebraskaCat (Jan 15, 2013)

It's probably all normal and natural, both rough play for young boys as well as establishing some kitty societal roles. I hate it - even when someone posts videos of cats playing rough, I don't like to watch that. But it is just something they do.

I might encourage some human/kitty play time - both with them as a pair playing with a person, but also as one-on-one play between person and each kitten. This way they each know the people in the house belong to both of them, regardless of who is winning the rumbles.


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## DebS (Jun 14, 2015)

I had two female kittens years ago and they used to really go at it. I absolutely hated to see this and I cringed outwardly when it happened but they did eventually learn to live in harmony. Maybe give them a bit of time together each day? I'm no expert in this department so I don't know for sure what you should do. I'll be interested in your updates.


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## hlwood (Jun 19, 2015)

NebraskaCat said:


> I might encourage some human/kitty play time


Thanks Nebraska. We'll increase their play time and hope for the best! I think I'm going to have to slowly build up to playing with them as a pair. Like I mentioned in my original post, Roderick is so enamored with Tristan, I don't think we'd be able to play with them together right now...Roderick would just be all over Tristan.

I was thinking maybe we could try having one human play with one cat on either side of the baby gate simultaneously....that way, Roderick can get used to Tristan moving around and playing, but not be able to chase after him.


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## TabbCatt (Mar 26, 2014)

I think it will definitely help if you used wand toys like "da bird" or the Go Cat wand with the mouse attachment to get Roderick's extra energy worked off. Keep Tristan in a seperate room at this time. Make sure when you play with Roderick, you invest in some _very_ rigorous exercise routines. If he is a very playful boy, you'll need to do this for at least 20 minutes each session, until he can no longer chase after his "prey" toy and _has_ to lay on his side and literally begins to pant. He may need this twice a day, once when you get home from work, then again right before bedtime to let most of his energy out. With Tristan, do the same routine with him, to help boost his confidence but in a seperate room away from Roderick. You could swap rooms so that Roderick is in a room by himself while he recouperates from the "hunt". Anyway, each "kill" Tristan makes (by capturing the prey toy) successfully, the more self-assured he'll be. (Don't use laser toys for this reason.) Play therapy will also help release some pent up energy (good and bad) that he may have inside and release some stress. After both cats are well exercised, feed them a small meal on opposite sides of the door or baby gate, whichever you prefer. After a while of implementing this routine, and you think Roderick isn't as "obsessed" with Tristan, you can try play therapy with both cats in the same room, followed by a small meal again close to each other. Eventually, both cats will come to know good things happen with each other, and hopefully the exercise regimen will help keep Roderick's energy levels in check to prevent him from chasing Tristan or scaring/intimidating him away.

I do want to add that young cats like yours will occasionally rough-house and tumble with each other for fun. Roderick and perhaps even Tristan didn't learn proper socialization skills, so he may not know how much is too rough when playing with each other. Once Tristan feels confident in your home, they will both learn how to properly play with each other without being too rough. You can tell because they will _take turns_ chasing and pouncing on each other. An occasional yelp is fine, it tells the other cat "Hey, watch it!" and will learn proper kitty mannerisms.

I'd also like to include if you live in a small space, perhaps another cat tree, implementing cat shelves, rearranging funiture (basically putting in more vertical space) can also help both cats each claim their own territory? If you watch Jackson Galaxy's show, he calls it the "cat superhighway" and usually emphasizes there is always an escape route for a cat (no dead ends). This is also important for litter box placements, too. This way, there will be less chances of an accident occuring. Ok, I think I've rambled enough, lol.

Wishing you many lots of success with your two boys, keep us posted how they are!


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## hlwood (Jun 19, 2015)

Thanks for the input TabbCat. You definitely reassured me regarding the rough play. We do have "Da Bird," but will tack on some extra time to Roderick's play sessions to really tire him out. 


Oh, and on a positive note, it's not Roderick doing ALL the chasing. Roderick normally will start it, but Tristan isn't afraid to chase him right back, so that's good. I don't think Roderick is in full-on "bully" mode.


Thanks for all the help! I'll take as much as I can get!


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## TabbCatt (Mar 26, 2014)

I'm glad to hear Roderick isn't a bully after all! I was crossing my fingers that it wasn't so! Lol.

I think the most important thing is that Tristan's confidence isn't lost from Roderick's "enthusiasm"? But if Tristan is getting right back into the rough and tumble, it's all good. 

My two kitties used to do the whole tail wagging, side-ears thingie while they stared each other down before wrestling each other when they were only a few months old, and would continue to do it except G is currently coned now, but he'll still occasionally play tag with Maya and zoom around the house for a few minutes. They are both almost reaching 2 years, and yet they will both cuddle with each other, so I think your shelter may have made a successful playmate match with your boys if they are already playing well with each other.

Hope to see pics of them soon. (We do have a Meet My Kitty section on our forum)


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## hlwood (Jun 19, 2015)

Here are my little boys!


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## NebraskaCat (Jan 15, 2013)

Oh nope, they won't get along. You're going to have to ship the little blue one to Nebraska to live with me.


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## hlwood (Jun 19, 2015)

Haha!! Nope, sorry, he is staying with me! He is a sweet little baby doll, and loooooves to cuddle. I just can't get enough of him!


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Hlwood,
To me it sounds like it's going very well!
Boys do like to 'rough house' a lot with wrestling and chasing each other!

As long as there is No blood being drawn, or serious yowling going on, or Someone hiding, and refushing to come out...
I think you're good!

It can be un-nerving when you hear little growls and hissing, but that's often how boys will play!

You can also trim Both of their claws, both front and back, since boys like to lay and 'rabbit' kick each other to!

Some play time alone with Roderick, before letting Tristan out, should help with Roderick's energy level! 

They're a Handsome Pair!
Sharon


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## hlwood (Jun 19, 2015)

So, my boyfriend had a thought, but I wanted to get some opinions on it....my whole goal is get to get Roderick used to Tristan playing and moving around without feeling like he has to chase him. My boyfriend suggested that we put Roderick in his carrier for a few minutes while we play with Tristan out in the living room. That way, we can acclimate them both to the sharing the open space, but not give Roderick the opportunity to pounce. Just for some background, Roderick is a very resilient and generally cat-free cat, so I'm not terribly worried about him being traumatized by being in the create or anything. Thoughts? I'm curious if others have tried this and if you think this could be a helpful approach.


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## DebS (Jun 14, 2015)

Oh my they are sweet looking!


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## Dumine (Jun 30, 2014)

I think your "cat in the carrier" idea is worth a shot, but I think it's the spending time with them together with some kitty and human interaction that will eventually do the trick.
Right now I agree with the others in that what you have there are two fairly equal in temperament young boys who both lack a bit of social skill when it comes to rough play.
Luckily it does sound like both of them can hold their own which means that even if things go too far, at least both should remain relatively confidant.
I like TabbCat's idea of introducing another tall cat-tree. 
It has happened more than once where two newly introduced cats seem to get along fine and then one day, out of the blue (months later) there is suddenly a real mean fight which leaves one of the cats very fearful of the other. Once that cat's confidence is broken, it can take a lot of patience and time to get it back up. 
You will eventually leave them alone together in the house unsupervised and there should be enough hiding spaces and escape routes so one cat cannot corner the other even during what seems like a playful chase.
I really applaud your efforts so far. It sounds like you are well on your way to getting Roderick the perfect playmate.


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## hlwood (Jun 19, 2015)

Thanks Dumine! It feels good to know that I'm on the right track. I'll be on the look-out for another cat tree, and keep taking it slow!


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## hlwood (Jun 19, 2015)

Good-ish news! After individual playtime yesterday afternoon, Roderick ended up escaping from the bedroom and came out in the living room with Tristan. My boyfriend and I decided to stand back and see what would happen, and WHEW, those boys wore each other out! There was a little rolling ball of fury going back and forth across my apartment for upwards of an hour. I’m 99% sure it was all play, as there wasn’t much vocalization (Roderick hissed once), and they took turns tackling each other. They finally got to a point where they were so worn out, they would stop mid-wrestle to take a breath, and then go right back at it again a few seconds later! We also were able to play with both of them separately and together with Da Bird toy, so I considered that a huge success. We’ve still got a loooong way to go, as they both still have a tendency to want to chase when the other is trying to get a drink of water or go to the litter box, but I thought we made great progress last night. Here is a picture of my boys laying together after their hour-long wrestling match.


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

This is Awesome progress!
Before you know it, they'll be napping together, after their wrestling matches!
Sharon


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## Jenny bf (Jul 13, 2013)

This is great news and they are doing what they should be. They obviously enjoyed it too. A few more sessions like this and you will be ready to try the next step of having them out together all the time you are at home then all the time. 
Well done for persevering. Intros can be very stressful, as much for us as the cats. My own took about 12 weeks so keep going )


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## TabbCatt (Mar 26, 2014)

Oh, good to hear your boys are doing so well. 

Since it sounds like you've got two very active boys, I'd suggest you getting a lot of different wand toys or various attachments to keep their interest going. Some cats love to chase "birds", while others go bonkers for mice, bugs, etc. You'll find various things from Amazon, from the cheap cardboard on a wire "cat dancer", to many, many others. It's a great way for you both to develop special bonds to your boys.

Wishing you guys lots of happy moments with your happy (and tired) cats! :catsm :mrgreen:


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## bluemilk (Oct 3, 2005)

It sounds like you've got double trouble-the best kind! Sometimes even play fights can get out of hand and when that happens you need to step in. At the shelter where I work, one of the workers makes a stern face and says 'CHILDREN!', and the scrapping usually stops.
The DO look playful!


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## hlwood (Jun 19, 2015)

Thanks everyone! I'm very excited to see where their relationship goes....I see lots of happy times in our future!


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## hlwood (Jun 19, 2015)

One step forward, two steps back. For the last few days, I thought things were going great. They were playing well with each other, both taking turns doing the chasing. However, starting yesterday afternoon, Tristan has been very shy. He's not hiding, but he's definitely keeping to himself. And now, Roderick is doing 99% of the chasing, and I can tell that Tristan isn't happy about it. The more Tristan runs, the more Roderick keeps chasing him. I just wish that Tristan would stand up for himself! I know he has it in him.


I also noticed that Tristan has had lots of little tiny clumps of pee in his litter box, which I've heard is a sure sign of a UTI. I plan on making a vet appointment tomorrow. I hope it's just nerves and not an illness. 


I just needed to vent. This is extremely frustrating.


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## TabbCatt (Mar 26, 2014)

Hlwood,

I'm so sorry about Tristan, but you need to know. Tiny clumps of urine is very, very serious. I'd take him to an e-vet right now and not delay. If he's blocked completely, it can cost him his life, and I definitely know we all don't want that to happen to any of our fur-babies! Please go and get him in today, stat!

Crossing fingers for you all.


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## Jenny bf (Jul 13, 2013)

If Tristan is feeling unwell that would explain his sudden need to be alone. It may not be related to the intros so don't assume it is but as TabbCatt said he needs a vet visit


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## hlwood (Jun 19, 2015)

Update on Tristan....


The vet said that he had crystals and lots of red/white blood cells in his urine, and this was most likely caused by the stress of having another cat in the house. They are going to put him on a prescription diet, but she said that the #1 helper would be to reduce the stress in his environment. This is so disheartening….I was so proud of the way that they were interacting, and now it’s come out that Tristan has been a nervous wreck the entire time. Roderick is a rambunctious little cat, and he doesn’t know when enough is enough, unfortunately. Based on the recommendations from the shelter, we were pretty confident that Tristan would be able to handle it, but I guess that’s not the case. 


I guess it’s back to the drawing room at this point….I’m not sure where to go from here. I hate to continue to separate them because I feel like if Roderick could just get used to Tristan, then he wouldn’t feel the urge to chase him and harass him as much. But on the other hand, Tristan being around Roderick is making him sick. This feels like a vicious cycle, and I don’t know how to break it.


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## TabbCatt (Mar 26, 2014)

Oh, I thought they were doing so well too, by your report. I'm sorry Tristan is not feeling well, but I'm glad you got him to the vet. Male cats are especially more prone to urine blockages, and crystals can do that, poor guy.

Because Tristan is the new cat, he probably had _a lot_ on his plate to take in. New environment, new scents, new people, new schedule, new everything, and on top of that, a new hyper cat he just met that demanded a lot of play? I suggest keeping him back in a quiet part of the room away from Roderick with his own food, water, litter box, and put on some soothing (classical?) music in the room, and perhaps even calming cat collars for both cats.

Roderick will probably need a lot of interactive play therapy _before_ he starts interacting with Tristan again, and I'd definitely think about your home and installing in more shelves or vertical space so that Tristan can go and retreat up high away from Roderick when he needs to. Remember that Roderick probably needs a lot of wearing out than most cats, so be prepared to get a good workout! Hopefully after his intense exercise, he won't have the dire need to chase after Tristan the next time they meet.


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## catloverami (Jul 5, 2010)

I've been following this thread... now that you know that Tristan is under stress from Roderick's aggressive chasing, and has caused this urinary problem, you first have to get Tristan feeling very well. If you have been feeding him any dry kibble, that may also have aggravated the problem. 
Here's some good info on cat nutrition: Feeding Your Cat: Know the Basics of Feline Nutrition :: healthy cat diet, making cat food, litter box, cat food, cat nutrition, cat urinary tract health

You will have to keep them Roderick and Tristan separated until Tristan is back to normal and at full strength, then only let them together _when you can supervise closely their activity without distractions_. Give Roderick some extra play on his own to drain off some of his energy before getting together with Tristan. Start slowly by getting them together by playing with them for short periods, and end on a good note by giving them treats or letting them eat together, but don't allow any chasing games for a little while. When they get chasing again and Roderick is too rough for Tristan, and he's not standing up to Roderick and/or showing any fear, it will be _your job to intervene_ and discourage Roderick from being too aggressive, and stop the play. Some cats, especially males, do play too rough and don't want to stop their aggressive play and don't either know when 'enough is enough', or are even _stimulated _to be _more_ aggressive. With this type of cat, you're going to have to be the disciplinarian, and when you say "Roderick, no! or leave it"---whatever you say, be consistent with it, and Roderick pays no heed to you, then you have to go after him.....I use _a folded over newspaper_ (not a magazine) to give a firm smack on the rump. Most cats don't like the sound of it, and usually run off. It doesn't hurt them, and they don't associate the smack with your hand. You don't want them to be hand shy. I've used this training technique for many an obstreperous kitten/cat with good success. It teaches them limits, and when enough_ is _enough; it does not hurt them. You can't use this method with a timid cat or one that is sensitive, e.g. Tristan, but works well for a bold aggressive cat and they will soon learn that you will not tolerate too aggressive behavior. Tristan will come to know that you have his back, so to speak, and should be more relaxed with Roderick, and may even come to you for your protection if things get too rough. When Roderick stops or heeds the "No" then_ praise him lavishly_, call him to you and give him a treat or some loving caresses. Always praise good behavior. All the best!


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## hlwood (Jun 19, 2015)

Thank you both for the advice. I'm trying my hardest to keep my head held high and not stress out about this. One step at a time though.


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## TabbCatt (Mar 26, 2014)

Oh hlwood,

Please don't stress. Take a breather, you took Tristan in at the right time, and you're working it through to get him treated and healthy again. Not your fault. Right now, the best thing you can do for him and Roderick is to relax yourself. Cats are sensitive creatures, and tend to pick up tension and stress from their humans, so try to take it easy, go out for a nice walk, decompress a bit. When you're ready, we'll be right here for you again. No worries, no hurries either. 

If you think _you_ feel bad, think of me--my recent blunder cost my cat a part of _his tail_ from my lack of attention at the time! 8O I was really devasted and upset by that, and somewhat still am, but I look at my G and see him moving on, so that's what I need to do, too.


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Hlwood,
Don't beat yourself up!
Tristan's UTI could have been brewing for a while...AND all the sudden changes at one time, caused it to to become full blown!
It's another reason, that a safe room is recommended, to start off with, that's enough for a new cat to get used to for a while!
Keep Tristan separate, until he gets a Clean bill of health, so he can relax a bit!
I would put baby gates stacked, in the door, so Roderick, and Tristan can still see and sniff each other, this way you won't have to start completely over with them!
And you can consider it a chance for another intro!
Hang in There!
Sharon


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## hlwood (Jun 19, 2015)

Thanks for the encouragement everyone. Tristan was back with us last night, and you better believe I gave him lots of loving! Please cross your fingers that his recovery goes smoothly.


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## DebS (Jun 14, 2015)

I hope Tristan recovers well.


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## TabbCatt (Mar 26, 2014)

If Tristan likes wet food, please encourage feeding him that over dry (despite what the vet sold you). I know he'll do great with you guys as his cat parents!


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## hlwood (Jun 19, 2015)

The vet prescribed Royal Canin Urinary SO dry food, which I wasn't too keen on, considering I've read a lot of things saying that dry food can exacerbate urinary problems. I asked her about this and she was adament that this food would help the problem. She essentially gave us a freebie bag, so I'll give it a shot, but it's not something that I'd like to continue long-term, mainly because the ingredients don't seem that healthy. Before this, we were feeding them both Blue Buffalo - a little bit of dry food in the morning with their main meal being wet food in the afternoon. I guess we'll see what happens. He seems to LOVE the prescribed food though, which I was surprised about since he can be picky.


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## TabbCatt (Mar 26, 2014)

Well, there is the RC urinary s/o in wet, I don't know why the vet didn't prescribe that instead.:roll: Maybe you can ask your vet about adding the wet version and see if Tristan takes to it?

I am glad Tristan is eating his rx diet for now, it will help dissolve his crystals (struvite, I'm guessing), but also get a water fountain since he'll need to drink a lot more water to keep him hydrated. Best healing and positive wishes to you both.


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## hlwood (Jun 19, 2015)

Tristan has recovered very nicely, so we are going to attempt a supervised 10-15 minute playtime session this afternoon, interferring if Roderick gets too rough. Wish us luck!


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## TabbCatt (Mar 26, 2014)

Hope Tristan isn't as stressed this time. How did it go?

I'd continue to keep their meeting sessions brief, just so he's not stressed again. Cyrstals can take a while to dissolve from his system, and it has the tendency to recur, so please go slowly.

Best wishes for you all.


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## hlwood (Jun 19, 2015)

The last two days went really well! Our approach was to start playing with Roderick in the living room, and after we had gotten him good and distracted, bring Tristan out and start playing with him too. And it worked, for the most part! Roderick tried to go after him a few times, but never anything too rough. When that happened, we just distracted Roderick again with his toy. After about 10-15 minutes of that, we let them eat beside each other, and then immediately separated them again.


Hopefully we can gradually increase the amount of time that they are with each other. I've got one question though....I'm not sure when to interfere from now on. I don't want Tristan getting all worked up and stressed again, so I feel like I need to step in; but at the same time, I don't want to discourage play or delay the inevitable pecking order disputes.


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