# Brand new at everything!!!



## Shareen (Feb 1, 2005)

hello... i have joined for some advice and help since i am very new at breeding and at using a forum.so please any suggestions that are helpful to me. 
Okay well let me start with some information. i adopted a beautiful boy kitten from the spca that was listed as a seal point siamese.he was 3 months when he was adopted. along the way i have done some research he has long hair and i wanted to find out more about the breed.he fits the balinese description to a "T"and also is a choc point.the skinny body with the long hair and the pointy face and long tail (as soon as i figure it out i will post a pic of him). His name is Caspian and now is 8 months old and i have decided to breed him even though i have no papers. so i did some hunting and decided to get a older female with breeding experiance but she also has no papers.we have now had her for about 1 month and she is a seal point applehead siamese called Isabell(i will post a pic up asap). last week caspian had his first mating experiance with isabell which was interesting cause it was my firstt as wel(cats i mean)l. 8O 
so she may or may not be pregnant.this is where any advice on pregnancy would be appreciated.also i would like to know how to tell that she could be pregnant,the early signs?at this point u know they both dont have papers,so if i was to sell there kittens how much do u think i could sell them for, after there first shots? is there any clubs to join for cats that could make there price increased? i think as of right now this is some of my questions but any help is appreciated.....
thankyou so much


----------



## OsnobunnieO (Jun 28, 2004)

You're breeding for the wrong reason. First, you don't know either of your cats. They have no papers and are worthless in the eyes of potetntial kitten buyers. You don't know what breed they are. If, hypothetically your male is a balinese and the female is siamese... you're just cross breeding and will end up with a mix. You don't know the genetic history of either cat.

So many health problems are genetic. You have no idea how healthy possible kittens will be. Responsible breeders take time to research EVERYTHING before hand. Most have it all worked out before they even aquired their cats, and even then they have problems to deal with.

Please reconsider breeding these two cats. I'm not trying to sound rude or harsh, but you really seem uninformed on the subject. You adopted your kitten from a shelter. I'm positive you noticed just how many other beautiful cats and kittens there were that needed a home. How would you feel if your kittens ended up this way? 

Talk to breeders. They'll be the first ones to tell you they aren't in it for the money. Have you had your cats checked out at a vet? I'm assuming you haven't, or the vet would have tried to explain some of the risks to you. The fact that you're mating an 8 month old kitten is very irresponsible of you.

It isn't too late to have them both fixed. You cannot just sell mixed breed kittens of supposed purebreds with no papers or even a definate breed and expect to make money. This isn't how it works. Please, PLEASE reconsider.


----------



## Gudewife (Jun 27, 2004)

Okay, I went away and did something else before I replied to this, as per my personal policy. I have to say that I'm surprised that the shelter adoption contract you signed didn't have a spay/neuter clause in it requiring you to neuter the male kitten, and a little depressed that even now, we can't get mandatory spay/neuter programs fully funded for _all_ shelter animals.

In terms of retail value, unpedigreed kittens are worth...well, they're worth nothing. We've got more than enough unwanted moggies already that we can't place. Even responsible breeders usually operate at a loss, after paying for genetic and medical testing/evaluation of both parents, feeding, and vet care for the queen and kittens. With two parents of unknown lineage and genetics, you could well end up with unsellable sick or deformed kittens that will need a lifetime of expensive vet care that you will have to pay for. 

If you scroll down this forum less than one page, you'll find a number of threads about the dangers and pitfalls of amateur breeding. After the morning I had at the shelter (dealing with an unexpected pregnancy spay of a cat that was an indoor-only, but was allowed to live with her intact son from a previous litter because "surely they wouldn't, you know, do it!" 8O Son is now neutered, Mom was spayed, but with some serious complications and issues that are causing great concern just now), I just don't have the energy to rehash and retype all of it, but it's all there for the reading. If you take the time to read those threads, they contain some excellent questions that need to be answered before you begin breeding.

Breeding is something that takes years of study and preparation to do properly and responsibly. Making kittens and puppies is dead easy, but making kittens and puppies that are healthy, wanted, and representative of their individual breed standard is very, very difficult (and impossible if you're breeding mongrels or mixed-breeds). Breeding to make a profit is the wrong reason to breed. Good breeders breed after a long study of and love for the breed, and money is secondary to maintaining and improving the breed. If your motivation is profit, you will be disappointed.


----------



## ForJazz (Dec 30, 2003)

By doing this without educating yourself first, do you realize that you are putting the cats you supposedly love in danger? Any idea what their bodies go through? The risks? Any idea what could happen, especially to your queen? Cats can die when bred improperly. I really suggest you educate yourself. 

Your cats are not "worth nothing"...I'm sure that was just a way of telling you that there are tons of cats who "look" siamese or balinese or "fit the description to a T"...but with no papers, your cat cannot be proven as any breed at all. Their worth is measured by the love they show you, and the love you return to them. Don't put them through this if you love them, you are not educated on the subject. If you do this so as not to put your cats in danger, you'll spend so much money on vet bills that you won't make any money anyway. My guess is that you are not prepared for that, or for any of this. You owe it to your cats to consider the risk you are putting them at. 

And I would definitely have your male neutered before he starts spraying all over your house.


----------



## Adrienne (Jan 15, 2005)

Gudewife said:


> Okay, I went away and did something else before I replied to this, as per my personal policy. I have to say that I'm surprised that the shelter adoption contract you signed didn't have a spay/neuter clause in it requiring you to neuter the male kitten, and a little depressed that even now, we can't get mandatory spay/neuter programs fully funded for _all_ shelter animals.


I agree with you Gudewife. All the work we do at my shetler to educate people that they must spay or neuter there cat and then I find out that there are actaully shelters who are not fixing the cats.


----------



## spittles (Oct 24, 2003)

Thank goodness here in California it is a law that all dogs and cats must be spayed/neutered BEFORE adopting(with the exception of animal control, which does it after)  

Abhay


----------

