# this lady is pathetic...



## spittles (Oct 24, 2003)

You wouldn't believe what happened yesterday 8O The caregiver of the feral cats I'm trapping called and told me that she found a lady who claims that she owns like 7 of the feral cats there. She says she was going to get them all spayed/neutered and microchipped soon, and she also feeds them. 

She said she had a cat that sounded like Dhruva who went missing and she looked all over for him. She told the caregiver to tell me that she would pay me $200 to get him back!!! I said no way because he needs special care for the rest of his life, which I doubt she will provide. She also claims she owned Nanda(my sister 7 year old who looks like Sabby & Ashley) :roll: Not to mention that Dhruva wasn't very far from her house and he was hit by a car 6 months ago...pretty stupid to me :? And he wasn't neutered...

This lady must be pretty pathetic...I told the caregiver to tell her that she had 1 month to get them fixed and show me proof. Otherwise I am going to relocate them(which I was planning on doing all along).

Okay, I'm done venting  

Abhay


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## rosalie (Oct 9, 2003)

I heard you loud and clear Abhay and I'm with you. To many people(read the wackos of this planet) feral cats are there for the taking I guess (luckly most are hard to pick up except for trusting strays & tiny kittens) 
Like if there isn't enough we must be aware of in maintaining their welfare, we get hoarders, 'I can do that too (and better than you)' humongous egos, cat haters, etc, etc :evil: 
Great that you're told of this lady that claimed the cats and that you were able to give her an ultimatun.
I might be wrong on this but I was thinking you better get her signature on paper promising to fix the cats; make it as official as possible even if it won't fly before any authority.. at least others_if the lady in question don't get it_will know you mean business.
Best of luck


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

Absolutely get a signature. You can't take other people's cats and spay or neuter them, even if it's better for the animal. It's against the law, as catman told you.


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## spittles (Oct 24, 2003)

Well, I didn't even know that Dhruva and Nanda were her cats...she just said they were :roll: And none of the cats have I.D. on them...Nanda was even already fixed, but he didn't have a microchip. With all these cats at an apartment complex, I would never know who the heck would own them. But anyway, good idea, I will get her signature.

Thanks  
Abhay


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## rosalie (Oct 9, 2003)

..just wondered Abhay; where I live pets don't wear micchips because vets don't do it & shelters don't have the machine to scan them..this is in a 100 mi radius from my town, don't know how it's in larger towns in the state.
Is it the same where you are? I mean micro and tag depending on facilities so that in say L.A. pets might be microchipped while in a little town aren't. Or the owner can choose with what id'd the animal? 
..maybe she lost the cat's ID?..anyways please try to ge her JH.
And sure you can't tell what cat belongs to whom in an apartment complex..you'll get an amalgamation of everybody's and nobody's cats..hope that when they see you taking care of them (in the good sense of the phrase  ) people will realize the importance of their pets carrying id's..


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

I believe the problem has arisen because you assume these cats don't have homes. Not everyone cares for their animals in what we might consider an ideal way. But that doesn't mean they don't love their animals and panic when they are missing. Any cat allowed outside could be taken in mistakenly, because someone thought it had no home. This happened to a friend of mine, and her heart is broken. I'm sure you'd be heartbroken if someone took your cat, assuming it was a stray.  Considering the number of cats in the US, I'm sure the percentage of those that are microchipped is very small. You might be trapping someone's much loved pet.


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## spittles (Oct 24, 2003)

Jeanie, the ones I take are only tame ones, have no ID, and have been outside for weeks. It is a rule at the complex that you must keep your cats indoor...of course nobody follows it :roll: I know for a fact that people leave their cats when they move or dump them. A friend saw a guy dump a cat, and a few weeks ago the owners of a 10 year old left without taking him. All of the strays have been returned for a few weeks before I found a shelter for them to go to. Only one of them disappeared, so I figure he had a home already. The last tame cat, Nimai(you may have seen pictures of him) is going to a shelter in about a week. Nobody owns him for sure...and he had to get out of there ASAP because one guy was throwing rocks at him because he "woke him up in the middle of the night." :? 

Everybody at the complex knows what I am doing. The manager even mailed everyone a flier explaining TNR and my phone number is on the office door. I've even had a person call me when her cat went missing, but I didn't have him. So all they would need to do is call me if their cat went missing...

Rosalie, there are like 3 vets that are only 5 minutes down the street, and one of them only microchips for $25. Or, Wal-Mart sells collars for $3 and tags for $4. 

Take Care,
Abhay

P.S. If the person(s) really loved their cat, they would keep them indoors because the complex is on a MAJORLY busy street. One of my ferals got run over, and that is where Dhruva was hit


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

Spittles, with all due respect, you have been saying for months that your cat is an indoor/outdoor cat. I'm happy that this has changed, but what if some well meaning person had taken your cat to a shelter, thinking it was a stray? You would have been in a panic, as we all would. 

It's good that people know where they can reach you, but in a huge complex, my guess is you are trapping some of the neighbors' cats.  You might mean well, but I think you might be making some mistakes that, in my mind, are tragic.


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## spittles (Oct 24, 2003)

No, my cats are still all indoor/outdoor. Except for 4 of them(I have 13 now). All my cats are microchipped, and I live on acreage. Of course, if I were to ever move to a smaller place, they would be indoor-only  

Well, did I have a choice? Do I leave them intact so they can keep reproducing? The manager was going to call animal control before I came, thank god she hadn't yet. But they would have taken all the cats...even all the tame ones. The manager was going to put a note on the office door(not sure if she had yet, but I think so) that I would be trapping, so keep all the pet cats indoors. 

ALL of the tame cats had not been fixed...so why would a responsible owner not fix their cats and leave them outdoors on a very busy street?

Anyway, there is only one tame cat left, the rest have been adopted or are still at a no-kill shelter(I believe there was a total of about 10 tame cats). As I said before, the last tame guy will be going to the shelter in about a week  

If anyone at the complex had a problem with what I was doing, I would think they would have complained by now.

Abhay


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## 22Raiynee22 (Aug 13, 2004)

*feral*

I have to agree with Spittles, it's not like she's just trapping them out of nowhere and no one has any clue where their kitty went. She has informed everyone in the complex that she does that, so the people know. I agree that if anyone had a problem they would have complained. If I lived in the complex and my indoor/outdoor cat went missing, the first person i would go to would be spittles. Of course the ones Spittles' is catching have no ID. 

Like she said, the owner was going to call the animal control, it's either spittles cares for them (and from what i know she does a darn good job) or animal control takes them and puts them down?? Sometimes choices are to be made. I think she made the right one. If you are talking about law, well they have no tag, or ID, plus the other lady did have no proof she owned THAT cat. So technically, by all legallness, that cat is/was un-owned, along with the other cats she is trapping.

I say your doing a great thing Spittles!


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## spittles (Oct 24, 2003)

Thank you very much Raiynee  

I did write up a paper for the lady to sign saying that she has until December 15th to spay/neuter and vaccinate all her feral cats, and if she fails to do so, I will relocate them. 

Yes, the manager was going to call animal control because she knew that they would keep reproducing. But she is a cat lover and kept putting it off :roll: 

Take Care,
Abhay


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

Spittles, that paper will not hold up in court, because it was signed under duress. You are basically saying, "If you don't take care of your animal the way I want, I will take it." If that were legal, someone who believes very strongly that cats are safer indoors could then pick up your cats and threaten to take them to be rehomed if you don't keep them indoors. 

Regardless of the fact that we consider our animals as family, the courts consider them to be property. You cannot legally take someone else's property. The law does not require cats to be confined, spayed, or neutered. Until and unless that law is changed, the owners of these cats are not breaking the law. 

There are feral colonies with noone to feed or care for them. However, there are organizations that you could join who know where these cats are, need volunteers to care for these cats, and have a spay/neuter/return program. You would not only be doing something that is legal; you would be doing a great service to the cats and the community. They would be thrilled to have you joiin them. 

If you are determined that this apartment complex is the place that needs a service, get in touch with an organization that captures animals legally and is part of the spay/neuter/release program. It we don't stay within the law we have anarchy.


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## spittles (Oct 24, 2003)

Jeanie, if you've read my other posts, these cats ARE going through an organization that pays for their spay/neuter and vaccines. They are called Folsom Felines Rescue and they pay for all spay/neuter & vaccines of feral colonies in some cities. They know me very well there and they already have the address of the caregiver and where the colony is. I follow all their rules(except the one that says the cats must be brought to the vet in a trap...but the vet we go doesn't care that we bring them in a carrier :roll: )

Hey, I think this paper is better than nothing(but _maybe_ I will change it around later)...and besides, the cats aren't even on her property, they are on the complex's property. I have never met this lady is person, and I have yet to even know which cats she claims are hers. Oh, and my cats stay on my property...thank god  

In my county, if I don't know who the owner of a cat is, I am allowed to get them fixed. I don't know who the owner or past owner of these cats are. Besides, my county animal control sucks, so even if someone did complain, they would never do anything :? 

Abhay


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

If you are not keeping other people's cats, as you had planned to do, and you are a member of Folsom Felines Rescue, and are staying within the law, that 's wonderful. However, in this particular case, you are not. I think we'll have to agree to disagree.

ed./correction


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## spittles (Oct 24, 2003)

If I knew who owned these cats, I would not take them away(I would still get them fixed though). But I have no idea, and I can't find out. Of course my number is still on the door in case someones cat went missing, but so far nobody has ever called in the 6 months that I've been trapping there :? 

Folsom Feline Rescue, as well as the shelter I volunteer at, also takes away tame cats from feral colonies. If you go onto petfinder and look, a whole bunch of listings will say that the cat came from a feral colony.

Abhay


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## WildCats (Nov 12, 2004)

Personally, I would go with this woman to the vet and see that she has every done that she said she would.

Then, I would ask or rather 'demand' that there be a time period in which you can visit the cats like every weekend or something. And of course allow dropins when the woman will be there but she won't be expecting you [hence she can't make every thing seem okay if it isn't].


I worked with an SPCA where a Boxer who had been beaten, straved, and generally abused was then dragged by a car by his owner. The man said it was dangerous. The dog was so thin, you could see its ribs from down the hall and its hips were showing. It was horrible.

This Boxer, named Lad, was relocated to a person who seemed well enough. To make sure, not only for Lad's well being, but because his treatment before might have caused him to be dangerous we worked out a time frame where one of the SPCA workers could drop in a see how he was doing.

He has been fine ever since that.


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## ForJazz (Dec 30, 2003)

Wow -- what a crazy situation. On one hand I agree with Jeanie that people might love their cats but just believe that they belong outside. But that theory doesn't really hold up when everyone in your complex is aware of what you are doing, and none of them have called you. I mean, it could be true that either they don't speak english, or they just don't read signs, or they read your sign but choose to keep their cat outside...if that is true then you *might* be trapping people's pets. But it really sounds like the people really DON'T own any of the cats, or don't care if they get taken away at all. 

I never knew that there were different laws for each county regarding trap/neutering of pets not knowing if they have owners. If it's not against the law in your county then I say go for it. I mean, if you think about it -- people cannot really prove that cats found in a feral colony *don't* have a home, but they are trapped all the time. I don't know how or who decides which cats are homeless and which cats have homes, when they are all found outside repeatedly -- I'd be interested to know that if anyone knows. I really have to commend you for the effort you go to about this, I can tell you're passionate about it.


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## lotocats (May 5, 2003)

I didn't have time to read all these posts, but what I read is that someone wants to TNR and relocate some cats and someone is objecting? I also note that someone said it was illegal to spay/neuter someone else's cat?

Where I live (southern US), if a cat is free roaming it is considered a stray and is fair game for anyone. I've picked up and spay/neutered countless cats in my neighborhood. Some had homes, some didn't. It was perfectly legal. 


I had a neighbor a long time ago who just "loved" her cats, but allowed the 12 of them to roam free and breed. I picked up more than half of these cats, had them fixed, kept some and found homes for some. She bitched and screamed and even called the police on me, but there wasn't anything she could do about it.

I never sit by and let an irresponsible pet owner not spay/neuter or care for their animals, if the law allows me to remedy the situation.

Check the laws/ordinances in your city.


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