# Ragamuffin or Maine ****?



## missmadison

My mom and I are in a disagreement about what kind o cat her Gizmo is. I think it is a maine coone and she thinks she is a ragamuffin. What do you guys think?


----------



## emma_pen

I think she is a Domestic Longhair, she's very long and leggy though. She's not chunky enough to be a MC. Whatever she is, she's gorgeous! She looks just like my sisters cat, Willow!


----------



## Layanna

Very beautiful cat. But it not MC. She is a little similar on Siberian cat.


----------



## Layanna

Siberian сat 









MC


----------



## Pigsterz

I've not seen a Raggamuffin that is a tabby. I didn't think they come in a tabby pattern?
Might be a MC mix. Looks like she has a bit of a square muzzle. Whatever she is, what a beautiful kitty!


----------



## ForJazz

Pigsterz said:


> I've not seen a Raggamuffin that is a tabby. I didn't think they come in a tabby pattern?
> Might be a MC mix. Looks like she has a bit of a square muzzle. Whatever she is, what a beautiful kitty!


Ragamuffins come in all colors and patterns actually -- you might be thinking of a Ragdoll. Ragamuffins are known to get very big - just like Maine Coons. Ragamuffin neutered males can reach 30 pounds.

As for this lovely kitty, I'd say she's neither. Domestic Longhair would be what you call her. Her facial structure and body are not Maine ****-ish, and she has no ear tips. Maine Coons have very square features and a prounounced muzzle. I would be willing to bet a million dollars that she's not a Ragamuffin either -- the breed is still pretty rare and reputable breeders are a closely knit group. They keep tabs on all their kitties to the point of obsession, because of the fact that the breed is new. Ask any of them and they will tell you they follow all of their cats throughout their lives. Plus her fur does not really look like the Ragamuffin standard, nor her face. Ragamuffins have a slightly domed head, a scoop nose, puffy whisker pads, walnut shaped eyes, giving them the "cherub" face. Her coat doesn't look dense enough to be a Siberian, and her face (jaw) looks too long. Same thing goes for the Siberian breed as Ragamuffins -- breeders are scarce and tightly knit. Siberians also don't have that head shape -- theirs is similar to the Ragamuffin.


----------



## spittles

I don't agree. I volunteer for Maine **** Rescue and I think she has a bit of MC in her. 

Abhay


----------



## Pigsterz

Whatever she is, me likes her. :lol: Very pretty!


----------



## ForJazz

spittles said:


> I don't agree. I volunteer for Maine **** Rescue and I think she has a bit of MC in her.
> 
> Abhay


It's very possible for lots of cats to have "a bit of Maine **** in them." Casual breeding is what makes DLHs and DSHs, and that's why many of them display Siamese, Maine ****, or Persian characteristics. Don't forget that what we now call registered breeds actually came FROM DSHs and DLHs. We really need a sticky in this forum to explain this, it comes up ALL the time. lol. 

Anyway, I'm just saying she's not a Maine ****, because you can't really call her one unless she has papers and is a purebred. Rescues, as you know, don't just take purebreds, they take cats that are mixes or display similarities. Probably why you are used to seeing a lot of cats like her. She's just not a purebred -- I've read over the standard a million times and been to enough cat shows to make MCs look completely different than DLHs to me. Where's DylansMommy? She'll tell you the same. And yes -- she's gorgeous. I would love to have a kitty like her!


----------



## Padunk

I've been thinking of a good way to tackle this situation in a sticky. It's got to be good or people are going to pass over it.


----------



## ForJazz

Well, even if they do pass it over, at least someone will know it's there. So someone can just link them to the thread instead of typing the same response to everyone all the time.


----------



## jonsgirl

Maybe just a sticky with the title "Wondering what breed of kitty you have?" and then just a short "no papers,=DLH, DSH" inside. lol. Would work for me.


----------



## BoscosMum

Oh.....I know what kind it is..... C. A. T.


----------



## spittles

ForJazz said:


> It's very possible for lots of cats to have "a bit of Maine **** in them." Casual breeding is what makes DLHs and DSHs, and that's why many of them display Siamese, Maine ****, or Persian characteristics. Don't forget that what we now call registered breeds actually came FROM DSHs and DLHs. We really need a sticky in this forum to explain this, it comes up ALL the time. lol.
> 
> Anyway, I'm just saying she's not a Maine ****, because you can't really call her one unless she has papers and is a purebred. Rescues, as you know, don't just take purebreds, they take cats that are mixes or display similarities. Probably why you are used to seeing a lot of cats like her. She's just not a purebred -- I've read over the standard a million times and been to enough cat shows to make MCs look completely different than DLHs to me. Where's DylansMommy? She'll tell you the same. And yes -- she's gorgeous. I would love to have a kitty like her!


Well we at Maine **** Rescue almost never have purebred MC's with paper. BUT, we do have purebred MC's. For example, Byron a little orange tabbny kitten, came from a backyard breeder. He is a purebred, but because he doesn't have papers, we must call him a MC mix. She does have some of the features of a Maine ****. 

Abhay


----------



## ForJazz

That's pretty much exactly what I said. I can see the cat's features just as easily as you can. But if you called every cat that had "large muzzle/head, pointed ears, and long fur" a Maine ****, things would get a bit out of hand.  

And backyard breeders...don't always have purebreds. Like that girl who recently posted in the breeding forum about her two cats that looked siamese -- truth is she has no idea what their parentage is. And the first one had medium-length hair, so obviously wasn't purebred. She bred her cats, is planning on selling the kittens as "siamese" and she qualifies as a "backyard breeder." The same goes for many of them. 

Ugh, I'm tired of this conversation, I think I've made my point. I have no idea why I get into it sometimes. I think I'm done.


----------



## spittles

But it is not only that which makes a Maine ****. You forgot foot tuffs, long lean body, she has the tail of a Maine ****...

Most of the time, when we get kitties from backyard breeders, they are purebred. Byron is very very coonie looking...not to mention cute  

Abhay


----------



## ForJazz

Yes, and her eye shape, bla bla bla. I didn't "forget" anything, just know it's not worth goign through all the details. Again, I know the Maine **** breed standard by heart. I see the similarities too, if I saw this cat in person I am sure I could pinpoint several more similarities that we haven't even covered. I believe you about Byron, that's not the issue. You are talking as though you think you're the only person here who's ever seen or worked with Maine Coons. 

She's not purebred, period. I never said there were no similarities. People are always thinking they can look up cat breeds and tell what theirs is, but it's not that easy. They think "oh he talks a lot and has ear tips, he must be a maine ****/siamese mix." The starter of this thread wanted to know what breed her mom's cat is, and the answer is DLH. You're either not understanding the main logic or you're ignoring it. DLHs and DSHs ALL display some similarities to purebreds. Purebreds CAME from DLHs and DSHs. That's why it's so easy to find moggies that resemble purebreds. They aren't that far apart. 

At rescues, if you don't know the pedigree for four generations, you don't know if they are purebred. It's that simple. You never know with backyard breeders, beCAUSE of how much a moggie can look like a purebred sometimes. 

To the daughter of the owner of this cat, you were much closer than your mom, I would say -- so you win the debate.  She is beautiful and your mom is very lucky. I'm sorry, I wish we could just be done here.


----------



## spittles

ForJazz said:


> At rescues, if you don't know the pedigree for four generations, you don't know if they are purebred. It's that simple. You never know with backyard breeders, beCAUSE of how much a moggie can look like a purebred sometimes.


That is not how our rescue works :? Now don't get me wrong, I am new to Maine **** Rescue, but I talk non-stop with 7-10 people who has been doing this forever and I have gotten to know the MC breed quite well. In fact, I just picked up my first Maine **** foster cat today!

I am done as well  

Abhay


----------



## Adrienne

spittles said:


> ForJazz said:
> 
> 
> 
> At rescues, if you don't know the pedigree for four generations, you don't know if they are purebred. It's that simple. You never know with backyard breeders, beCAUSE of how much a moggie can look like a purebred sometimes.
> 
> 
> 
> That is not how our rescue works :? Now don't get me wrong, I am new to Maine **** Rescue, but I talk non-stop with 7-10 people who has been doing this forever and I have gotten to know the MC breed quite well. In fact, I just picked up my first Maine **** foster cat today!
> 
> I am done as well
> 
> Abhay
Click to expand...

OUr shelter works the same ways as Spittles. If we know what the mom or dad is and they are purebreed then we will call the kittens a "purbreed mix"- and we will fill in whatever purebreed they are. In my experience most people who come to a shelter could care less what breed their cat is, but they find it nice to be able to say they have a "Siamese mix" or whatever kind of mix it is.


----------



## BoscosMum

Well.......I am not familiar with all the breed standards.
But I do know this......every long haired cat that I have seen.
Guess What......??? They have long hair tufts coming out between their toes. That is like a normal thing, DLH....Period! 
Does not make the cat a Maine ****. 

That cat is simply a C. A. T.


----------



## BoscosMum

"I think my cat is part Maine ****. How do I tell?"

The Maine **** is America's native longhair cat; it evolved naturally in response to the New England climate. Your cat's ancestors might be similar to the cats that founded the Maine **** breed. However, it's impossible to tell from just looking at your cat if it is related to the Maine **** or to any other breed. Because the Maine **** is a natural breed and hasn't been bred to extremes, there are cats all over the world that resemble the Maine ****. *The only way to tell for sure if your cat is a Maine **** is to look at the pedigree.*

That says it all if you ask me.....No pedigree....no Maine ****.


----------



## spittles

Okay MissMadison...

I sent all those pictures of you pretty kitty to Mary Dee, who has been doing Maine **** Rescue for as long as I can remember. Here is what she said.

_Appears to be MC to me. The tail is long, and fluffy, the nose looks wide, and it looks like there's ear and toe tufts. He also has a long body.

MD_

Looks like you got yourself a Maine **** mix  
Abhay


----------



## BoscosMum

Ohhhhh....Paallllggggllllllllll.

Hogwash Spittles! (still love ya)

There are barely any ear tufts on that cat.


----------



## ForJazz

Please don't call me MissMadison? 

Why is my point so hard to read? I said that cat wasn't purebred. And I said that cats can't be listed as purebred unless you have their pedigree. You agreed with me, I don't know why you're still talking about it. I know shelters list cats as "siamese mix" etc all the time...it's to find the cat a home. It's not because they are experts and can "see" the cats bloodlines. That, as Dawn posted, is impossible. 

Rescue workers are not experts by far. Of course I know one judge (there is LOTS of prerequisites and work experience needed to be able to be one) who is also involved in rescue work, so I am not saying that none of them know anything. But the motives are very different. Your friends answer was SO bare minimum -- real judges would probably laugh at it because she practically described every large longhaired cat in the world. 

All I said was NOT PUREBRED. Rescues and shelters, as you know and as I already mentioned...don't just take purebreds. They are more than willing to accept mixes or cats that resemble or cats that appear to have two purebred parents and call them "MC mixes" to find them homes. Their main purpose is to rehome animals, not to judge best of breed or even be able to recognize cats that meet the standard. So excuse me if I know better than to trust your friend's answer. You don't seem to be able to see what I'm saying -- if you had the education on the topic you'd understand, trust me. We can talk about this someday -- I'd be happy to if you would gain some more knowledge than you have right now. Rescue and breed experts are worlds apart. 

Please make no mistake, I support rescues whole-heartedly and appreciate the service that they provide. I in no way am downplaying what you do, only your eye for this based on what you said, and the people you consider "experts." That's all.


----------



## Padunk

Come on guys, this is a little silly. :lol:


----------



## spittles

ForJazz said:


> Please don't call me MissMadison?


ForJazz, I would never call you anything 8O MissMadison is the owner of the kitty :lol: 

Abhay


----------

