# So need advice on 5 new borns



## bigredfish

Hi, looking for some advice, hope you can point me in the right direction.

We discovered 3 kittens in our backyard last March, 2 females and a male. The momma was semi-feral as she would come right up to us. Anyway she raised the kittens fine with little help from us, other than food when they got to be about 7-8 weeks old. (we did save them a couple of times when they got into predicaments) We've put food and water out each day since and they are now 7 months old. Our backyard is completely fenced and relatively protected, good size with big oaks and lost of big shrubs to hide under during the day.

Anyway, we got 2 of the youngsters fixed but the one female alluded us and darn if she didnt have a litter of 5 kittens last Friday. She had them about 20 feet from where we leave food out, under a big shrub.

So here's my dilemma:
24 hours after they were born (Saturday) we saw a nasty storm coming. Fortunately I had built a nice little 4'x4'x2' shelter out of wood, up next to our screened in patio/pool, and 10 feet away from the food bowl area on a step just outside of the screen enclosure a month ago anticipating winter and a place for the then 3 cats to use if they wished. . So I picked up the kittens and put them inside, and momma took to it right away. So far so good.

Now here we are 5 days later and this evening for no apparent reason, momma decides to take the kittens one by one and move them back under a brush pile about 30 feet away. They are not well protected and would get soaked if we get another rain.

We plan on socializing with these kittens and getting them people friendly and hoping we can find folks to adopt them. I understand between 3-7 weeks its critical for them to become comfortable around people.

So given that this rather young 7 month old momma made a poor decision on where to move them to, *What would you do?:*

A- leave them be and hope for the best
B- move them back to the nifty kitten shelter

Momma wont let me touch her, but will come to within 12" when I put food out each night and morning, and she's "known" me for 7 months.

Sure could uise advice on moving them back or letting nature take its course.

thanks


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## 10cats2dogs

Hi Bigredfish! The little shed you built sounds great, did you put straw in it for mama and babies? Also if the front is completly open that could cause mama to move her babies to what she perceives is more cover...
Maybe a removable 'wall' area with just enough of an opening for mama to get through would help convice her that this is the spot to be!
I had used a huge rubbermaid tub when I went through something similar to yours, I cut a hole in it and in my case, used old blankets for bedding, my feral mama cat checked it out good for a couple of days, then she started moving her babies one by one from under the hood of my old blazer to her new home, the rubbermaid tub!
I also cut the hole for mama cat to get in and out about half way up, so there was a high lip that the kittens couldn't just fall out of.
You need to convice her that its the best nest area around!!
Good luck!!


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## bigredfish

Thanks 7 cats, I'll try the straw bedding. Otherwise it's well built, plenty of room and protected from the elements.

So would you move them back to the shelter? DO I risk Momma abandoning them? Should I wait another week?

She has been around and in the structure for a month prior to having the babies so she's comfortable around it. I think something must have spooked her and being young, freaked out and made a bad decision.


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## librarychick

New kitty mums are known for moving their litters, it probably wasn't because of anything. Personally I'd change the bedding then move them back. As long as she's fairly comfortable with you it shouldn't upset her.


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## bigredfish

Thanks, I think I'll do that.

By the way, Am I correct in assuming that I should not attempt to feed the babies until they have stopped nursing on Momma, say 7-8 weeks?


Thanks again for the help


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## bigredfish

Well she beat me to it. Just 24 hours later, after the sun had come up and she realized what a bad spot she had picked, she moved them again to a much better location, still right nearby in a different place in the backyard.

Still I'd love her to take to the nifty kitty shelter, but for a few days, or perhaps until the kittens get to 3 weeks, I think I'll let them be where they are.

At 3 weeks the plan is to move them back to the shelter where we can begin the socializing process.


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## librarychick

Don't wait until 3 weeks! If she's let you touch them before (aka didn't freak right out and abandon them) then you can start now. The earlier the better, especially since mum is feral.

When I had feral females I had a trick I used if I knew they'd be OK with me around their kits. I'd feed them wet food at a certain point each day and as mum was eating her yummy dinner I'd go and pet the kittens in the nest. Don't pick them up for a few days, and keep a close eye on mum. If she seems to be getting anxious, or to be very angry about you being near her kits you'll have to try a different tactic, but it works pretty well.

When they're about 3 weeks old they'll start to toddle around (my absolute FAVORITE kitten stage ) and they may try to eat with their mum. They'll just start tasting at that age, and will still be completely dependent on mum for milk, but if you've gotten her used to eating at a certain time you'll get to see the kittens start following her around.

Then comes the tricky bit. Mum will start leading them on mini adventures around 4-5 weeks old...if there's anyone that lives nearby who is a threat to the kittens they're at a very vulnerable stage and can be easily caught. Keep that in mind. (That is why I took Muffin from his feral mum at 4 weeks. I'd gotten a straight out threat from a neighbor.)

If you can it's best to keep them with mum until they're 6 weeks old, but if you need to bring them in sooner for whatever reason do it after 4 1/2-5 weeks. They're a lot more work at that age, and would do much better with mum, but they're safety is always my first concern.

Once the kittens start toddling around spend as much time with them outside as possible; that's when you ramp up your socializing. Pet them, pick them up, cuddle them, talk to them ect. You want them to be very comfortable with you so it's easy to catch them when it's time.


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## dt8thd

Yes, to what librarychick said. 

Incidentally, kittens can sometimes be used to lure trap wary mother cats into humane cat traps, which would allow you to get mommy spayed! It's a tactic I employ a lot when trapping during kitten season.


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## bigredfish

Thanks so much for all of the helpful advice. I really appreciate it. 

Checked on the little ones when I got home and all seemed well. At least she's left them in the same place for 2 days. :thumb

So tomorrow we'll start trying the petting thing at feeding time and see how that goes. Still wondering whether to move them back to the cat palace, but will see how things go this weekend.

I'll keep you posted and get some obligatory kitten pics. Stay tuned


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## bigredfish

Well she moved them again! My wife went to check on them and found one lonely kitten in the last bed she had made. That spot lasted 3 days like the other ones. Left one there, so we picked it up and brought it to her, again....Dont understand why she keeps moving them :fust , it seemed like a great spot. 

Now she's in a bad spot again up against the house behind the pool heater. Its not in use so no worry there, but it's open and not protected at all. Maybe 10 feet from the "cat palace". Anything I can do to lure her into the shelter?

She's very protective and when I get close she hisses and puts herself between me and the little ones. If looks could kill I'd be a goner.


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## bigredfish

The one she left behind today, I put it back with her behind the pool heater...geeshh


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## bigredfish

So...it's getting worriesome. I moved all 5 kittens to the shelter (10 feet from where she last moved them to) after she disappeared for 3 hours and wandered around the back yard.

She came back and moved one kitten back by the pool heater, and has left the other 4 in the shelter now for 4 hours.....She knows they're in there, she's been in and out of it 3 times, but I'm pretty certain she cant count worth a darn, and am worried she's just not the brightest bulb in the string or just too young to know what to do.

I guess my two choices are to A) leave things be and hope she comes back for the other 4, or B) take to her,... at coming up on 10 days old, I'm not sure what to do??? I'm afraid I'll wake up and find the 4 dead in the shelter..

My nerves are a wreck


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## struckers

There's no way you can bring them inside? I may be saying the complete wrong thing, I'm not 100% educated on the matter and haven't had to care for a whole litter of young ones yet, but my main priority would be making sure the kittens are in a safe place where no one can hurt them. Hmmm. If mamma happened to abandon them for whatever reason, would you be able to care for them on your own? If so, then personally my main priority would be getting them to a safe spot even if mamma doesn't like it. Like you said, you don't want to wake up to dead kittens.  

Of course, if someone with more experience/education on the matter thinks this is wrong, then by all means please say so, for their information and mine. I'm just worried the mamma is young and may not be making the best decisions for the little ones (and that seems the case).

If all turns out well, do you plan on getting the mama spayed? And the new female kittens? Also, what of the original mother? Sorry, lol, just curious.


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## bigredfish

Yes definitely plan on getting momma fixed. She is one of 3 kittens that appeared in our backyard in April, 2 females one male. I got the other female fixed, and was unable to catch her before she got pregnant. The older momma, Grandma, has since disappeared.

I can't stay home and care for the kittens all day, as my job wont permit it nor will my wife's.

They're all safe, right now she has one by herself around the side of the house, and the other 4 are still in the shelter. Problem is, she hasnt fed them in going on 5 hours now.


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## pkbshrew

Do you have somewhere inside that you could confine Mamma and her babies? If it were me, I'd trap her and bring them all in so that the musical babies scenario would stop and they would all be safe and Mamma would be there to feed for them. It does sound to me like as she's so young she's not really sure of what she's doing. I would be worried about the 4 not being fed as well. It's a very difficult situation for sure....


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## bigredfish

Well I grabbed the 4 and took them around the side of the house and laid them down next to her. She was cautious but let me place them by her and stayed put so far (20 minutes) they all seem to be finding a place to suck, so I'm going to have to let them be for the night.

Not really a place to keep them inside. We also have an inside pooch, older Shizu, and both have high pressure jobs we can't take off for 2 weeks :deal

I suppose worst case I could put them in the garage..warm temps here in Florida, 65 at night, mid-high 80's daytime, so that's good.

I have a daughter who may be able to help, but it's a long shot do to living arrangements...

We'll see what the morning brings...I need a hug atback


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## pkbshrew

((((((((((((((((((((((uber hug))))))))))))))))))))))


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## struckers

That's great that she let you handle them and then let them feed again. That's a good sign, but I know this can be very stressful, especially when you don't really have the means to care for them what with money and time.  Are you hoping to eventually give them up for adoption when they're older? 

For the time being I would just keep checking on them and doing your best and remember that it's not your fault if not everything goes perfectly. It sounds like you really care and you're doing a pretty great job of helping them right now. ((hugs))


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## howsefrau32

I like the idea of putting them in the garage. Thanks for the cute baby pic, BTW, so cute! I am in Florida too, Orlando. (((hugs))) you are doing a good thing for this littler kitty family


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## bigredfish

Thanks, I'm in Apopka off Wekiva Springs.

She stayed in place with all 5 last night, so one small victory. 

Unfortunately, unlike her brother and sister who still come around for feeding time each am and pm, she won't get closer than 2 feet from me. The other two come right up to me and even let me pick them up.

We'll see about clearing a safe space in the garage this week, that is if she doesnt move them to Georgia by the end of the week :roll:


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## howsefrau32

Hopefully she won't go to far, and when the kittens are big enough to be on their own, I think you should be able to snag them, and hopefully her. As long as you are feeding her, I'm sure she will come back around. 

Are you in Seminole County? They have a wonderful rescue group called Spay n Save, they are in Longwood, and they do lots of TNR, and you can also bring cats and kittens in for spay and neuter for very cheaply, and they are really good people. They would be someone you could contact if you do need to trap the momma cat with a humane trap, they would probably lend you one and show you how to use it. I don't think you will have to with her, I think you could probably get her on your own with a cage and some food. 

Thanks for doing all this for these kitties.


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## bigredfish

Well she's moved them again, so far 2 of them in just the past hour. Now down further in the backyard under a big Elephant ear bush. I gotta decide whether to get the other 3 and take them to her again, or grab up all 5 and bring them back to the Cat Palace.......geesh


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## librarychick

Give her at least 6-7 hours to move all the kittens each time. Keep checking on them, but give her time too.

I have a hunch that you moving the kittens might be part of the problem, so try and keep away from them. She's a new mum and first time mums are known for being anxious and moving their kittens. If it were me I'd back off and leave her be for the most part for a week or so. Check on the kittens once a day, but other than that leave her and kits alone.

Of course the best option would still be to trap her and get her inside in a bathroom where they'd all be safe...but if that's not an option then you'll need to make sure she doesn't move them to an area you can't get them or find them. That means making her feel safe.

Keep in mind that if she starts feeling too stressed she may completely abandon the babies, or even kill them. So it's better to err on the side of caution at this point.


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## bigredfish

Roger that and thanks again for the advice and support. 

The thing is we have left them alone since she last moved them last Sunday, no idea what made her do it again tonight. She got 4, and I got the last one, she hissed, but let me lay it right next to her. I helped because she was laid down feeding the other 4 and the one left behind seems to be the runt. Last couple of times I did the same after 4 hours of the left behinds being by themselves. I hear ya though, will try and not, but after 4 hours I figure a baby is getting in a bad way without food.

Because the yard is well fenced and secure, I'm not worried about their safety, just weather, which we've been lucky with lately.

The next big step in the coming week (they'll be 2 weeks this Friday) is to figure out a plan to socialize and get them friendly.

Perhaps best to let them stay where they are, and as they start coming out from the bush, playing with each one in the evenings, mornings when we can. And as they get more mobile, they'll follow her the (now 50 feet) up to the feeding area where I put the food and water each morning and evening.

Would you leave the feeding area where it is right outside the door to the screened in porch/pool? My hope would be that they will eventually start following her up to it.


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## bigredfish

Update and advice time again!

So we took your advice and let them be, and she has stayed with them in the same spot for 9 days. Yesterday the litter turned 3 weeks old.

She is still very protective and hisses at me when I get within a couple of feet of the kids. She has begun to let me pet her when she comes up for food each morning and evening. She seems to be a good Mom and all 5 babies seem to be ok.

She seems to be getting along with her brother and sister better now also,.

So now that the kids are 3 weeks, I need to seriously socialize with them over the next 4 weeks and get them adopted out. Keeping them isnt an option as I cant have 8 feral cats in the yard. There is the dilemma.

*Leaving them where they are under the big bush means they'll be wandering around the backyard and be hard to get a hold of soon. I'm thinking I need to contain them so I can spend good time with them and they can get used to human interaction.

So if I create a pen either outside the screen by the cat palace I built, or just inside that screen door in the picture below showing the door leading to our master bath, that would work, but what to do about Momma? She needs to feed them, and I'm not sure she'll just pick them up and move them again if I allow an access hole for her to be able to come and go???*

Pics below- she has them in the big elephant ear bush in the backyard just beyond the hot tub, her brother and sister (Momma's name is Dirty face, brother is Gray Cat, and sister is Baby - I know, not very creative)

When I go to feed them they all come running and typically love to scoot by me and run into the pool area, so we let them play around there any given day for an hour or so, they're fascinated by the pool!

I gave them all a treat this morning and fed them some wet food- chicken and tuna, it as a big hit! I normally feed them dry Meow Mix soft center stuff.


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## Venusworld21

Is the garage still an option? At 3 weeks they won't be eating on their own yet. If you're going to up your handling of the babies, mom probably won't like that and will try to move them again if she's not confined as well. I would *strongly* recommend moving the entire family, mom included, into the garage or a bathroom or something. You can socialize the babies that way, mom can choose to be near you or not, but she can't move them somewhere out of reach. Plus she's already "caught" so once the babies are adopted, you can get her into a crate and get her spayed. 

Also, that pool really scares me. It's lower than ground level and babies won't realize that. I had one of my fosters walk off the top of my washing machine during feeding the other night, and they're 5 weeks old. I'd hate to see any of the babies drown once they start tottering around on their own. 


The babies and mom are completely adorable. Good luck with them! They're getting to a very dangerous age and I think if at all possible the entire family should be confined to a safe area.


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## bigredfish

Garage not really an option, long story, but could be dangerous for the cats.

I'm not worried about the pool as we wouldnt let them have free run of the pool area. I would build/buy a temporary baby type pen, or lattice work that they could not escape from, alternately, I can do the same just outside the screen around the cat palace, about a 8x10 ft area in all.

I think the thing is that Momma has to work with me and accept joint custody somehow for the next 4-5 weeks...


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## 10cats2dogs

Anything new happening now?
Has the mama cat finally settled and quit moving her babies all over?!
Have you figured out your next step?


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## bigredfish

Hi,
Yes Momma has stayed put now for coming up on two weeks this Friday. The kids will be 4 weeks old this Friday. She's getting friendlier towards me and allows me to pet her at feeding time. I plan on moving them into the new 8x10 pen I constructed around the cat palace this weekend so that we have easy access to them. Momma will be able to come and go into the pen/cat-house, but will be difficult for her to pick up babies and take them out.

I went and kneeled beside her and the babies for a while the last 2 days under the big bush (not touching just sitting there) and she is becoming less apprehensive about me being close to them, but still a ways to go. This coming weekend is the big hump for her to get over and allow me to play with them.


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## bigredfish

*Major Development!!*

SO I'm sitting on my porch having coffee and the cats are eating, (Momma and her brother and sister. They tend to like to race past me and play in the porch/pool area in the mornings when I feed them.)

So I have the screen door open so they can come and go while I'm getting ready for work, and I come back out and see a kitten laying on the porch inside the screen! Pretty soon here comes Momma with another.

So she decided that she likes the porch. Remember the cat palace I built and screened in is just outside the door to the pool enclosure, But we can't leave them on the porch due to the pool. So I set the two she brought up into the screened in cat palace grounds, and go to get the other 3. She chases me, hisses and even takes a swipe at me. So I lured her back to the porch and shut the door trapping her in the porch so I could go get the other 3 babies and set them in the cat palace screened in area. (She's very friendly around me and rubs against me and lets me pet her now, EXCEPT when I go for the babies.)

So now all 5 babies are in the screened cat palace, and she has all of them nursing inside the hut. SO I'm gonna leave them be for the day and see if she'll stay put. So far so good, and it will be difficult (but not impossible) for her to drag them up and out of the cat palace.

I'll post a pic shortly


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## bigredfish

She's still in the hut feeding them, seems to have calmed down, time will tell. This is a perfect situation if she doesnt freak out and try and move them out of the cat palace area.


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## librarychick

At four weeks old they could be starting to move themselves. They can't get far and they won't be able to climb the mesh (at about 6 weeks they'll most likely be able to though, just so you know).

I'd try a daily routine. Feed Mom inside your deck where you can close the door, give her a nice big portion of wet food to chow down on. While she's having kitten-free time and eating you can go play with the babies. At 4 weeks is when you really need to start being around them, they're easiest to tame at this age.


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## bigredfish

Yep that's the plan exactly! They are semi-mobile now, not very far, but teetering around a couple of feet. Yep I figure 2 more weeks and the mesh wont hold them. But I'm hoping by then they'll be comfortable around us.


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## librarychick

Hopefully! My concern would be the pool. At that age they'll be able to easily escape any sort of barrier if they want too...but they won't be able to swim for very long. If you've got a pool cover I'd put that down and secure the edges...or consider bringing the babies in as soon as they can climb the barrier.

If you bring the babies in right around 6 weeks it still won't be perfect, but you could keep them in a bathroom or something for two weeks, and those two weeks of socializing with people and getting used to a home with their siblings is much better than the risk of that pool, IMO. As long as they're together being without mum would be ok...although not idea. Sometimes with feral kittens you have to weigh the options and choose what isn't the very best, but is the safest.


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## bigredfish

No, no...They can't get into the pool area. See the picture. They are in the hut that I have surrounded by plastic mesh screen OUTSIDE of the pool/patio enclosure. 

Momma likes to come into the pool/patio area when I feed her and her brother and sister. So when she comes in, I can let her eat with the door shut and go around the corner, outside of the pool area and play with kittens.

I'd like to get to the point where she doesnt try to attack me when I go to pick them up...maybe hoping for too much..


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## librarychick

She'll feel less protective of them as they grow, but the kittens will see her reaction to you and mimic her. That's the part I'd be concerned about, she'll teach them to be wild.


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## pkbshrew

FINGERS CROSSED. Bless you for the patience and love you are giving this little family.


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## bigredfish

Major success! Momma now comes right up to me and rubs on me and lets me pet her and pick her up. She's become very calm around us and lets me pet babies. We played with them today and will more tomorrow and each morning and evening. 

Babies all seem fine, they like the cat palace and Momma lays just outside of it during the day a lot where she knows the kids are safe and she can relax outside of the screened area around it.

I'll post some pics later tonight or tomorrow...but so far so Good!


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## pkbshrew

Woot woot woot woot woot happy dance!!!!!!!!


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## 10cats2dogs

pkbshrew said:


> woot woot woot woot woot happy dance!!!!!!!!


ditto!!! :d


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## bigredfish

So as I mentioned, Momma is completely comfortable around us and loves to be petted and loved on. Today she let us pick up and play with the babies, while she lay a few feet away seemingly cool with the whole thing. After playtime, I put the kittens back in the pen and they followed momma back into the hut and have been resting together for a while now. So far so good!

So we hope to be able to spend a good deal of time with them each day morning and evening.

*** Question:
*When should I start trying to put soft food out for the babies?* I assume they will nurse on her for another few weeks? They are 4 weeks now. I have small cans of Little Friskies Pate' that is very soft and smooth, Momma likes it as a treat.

Pics















































*Happy Momma Cat!*


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## 10cats2dogs

What a great job you're doing! Such a cute little family!
I think, around 8 weeks...to start transitioning them to food??
I'll let someone else answer this who fosters!!


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## pkbshrew

They can start being offered wet food from 4 weeks


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## librarychick

Yep, you can start offering it now. Add a bit of water to make it more of a mush and be prepared for messy kits 

They're absolutely adorable! I'm glad mum has decided youre safe to be around the babies, it'll make your life much easier.


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## bigredfish

Things are going great. Momma is well adjusted to us and we can play with babies at will and she is cool with it. She is very loving and wants to be petted constantly. All seem healthy, as far as I can tell. They come out at my voice from the cat palace each morning and evening and we feed them and play with them. Momma seems to stay pretty close during the day (I have video camera's) and still seems protective of them otherwise.
*
So now I'm concerned about the whole food/feeding thing.*

Yesterday I gave the babies 1/2 can of Little Friskies Mixed Grill Pate' on a plate and they ate it up! Did same in the evening. This morning I gave them Salmon Dinner Pate' and they loved it also. All 5 ate and I could have probably given them the whole can...
*
1- Soooo..will they quit feeding on Momma? Have a created a monster too early (they'll be 5 weeks this Friday)*

*2- I have Kitten chow (dry) when to start them on that? Guessing once they eat it I'll save the soft food for "treats" occasionally?)*

*3- They don't seem to understand the bowl of water? Should I get them some of that kitten milk stuff at the pet store? (I know not to feed them cow milk)*

Guess I'm looking for next steps on the whole food thing....any help/advice will be greatly appreciated. 

More pics tomorrow...

thanks,
Mike


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## tghsmith

finding homes for those will be much easier than letting them go to new homes!!!


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## librarychick

The mother will wean them when she's ready. Most females start weaning between 5-6 weeks, and kittens are weaned by about 9-12 weeks if given the option. (That's code for 'don't rehome them until they're 12 weeks old!)

Soft food is always healthier for cats, so IMO you can offer the dry as well, but don't wean them off the wet.

Since they've got a mum they don't need milk replacer. They'll catch on to the water once they're further along in their weaning.

I'll add that if the mother is still around unaltered male cats she may be pregnant again already. I'd suggest that once the kittens reach 8 weeks you take her to get spayed. If she is pregnant it'll be early enough the vet can still perform a spay and the kittens will be mostly finished nursing.


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## dt8thd

librarychick said:


> I'll add that if the mother is still around unaltered male cats she may be pregnant again already. I'd suggest that once the kittens reach 8 weeks you take her to get spayed. If she is pregnant it'll be early enough the vet can still perform a spay and the kittens will be mostly finished nursing.


I agree, and I'll just add that a mother cat who is nursing kittens will usually continue to lactate after being spayed if she is put back with her kittens and they are not yet weaned. I currently have a mother cat and her litter of 3 kittens that I trapped about a month ago. Mom was spayed the day after I got her, and she's still producing milk because the kittens (now about 8.5 weeks old) still drink it.


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## Venusworld21

They won't quit feeding on mom just because they've got a taste of wet food. They'll just do both. Their food needs are going to start exceeding the milk she can produce (they should have a pretty major growth spurt around 5-6 weeks), so while they'll still want her milk, *just* her milk won't be enough to get everyone as big and strong as they should be. I've got a mom and 6 babies as fosters right now, who are about 6 weeks old. I put a full can of wet food in there in the morning, a full can at night, and a snack part way through the day, plus I keep a full dish of crunchies in there. Everyone is still slightly behind for their age in terms of weight. At this point, give them as much as they want, mom included. It's hard to feed them too much. 

They'll get the hang of water as they get older, and they should be getting adequate liquids from mom and the wet food, so don't panic if they aren't drinking from a bowl. It's way more complicated to lick water out of a bowl than slurp food off a plate. Think of it as the difference between a child learning to eat with their fingers vs. eating with a fork. It'll come, they just might not be there yet.


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## bigredfish

UPDATE:

Ok so we're coming up on 6 weeks old, all well. I feed them a can of wet Pate' food each morning and evening. Momma doing great, wants very much to be a house cat, loves laying on the porch and getting attention.

We play with the kitties each evening, and on weekends get them all out on the porch for an hour or so. They're doing fine. They seem to like the home I've built but they are starting to test their climbing skills a bit. They have clear personalities starting to appear. two explorer's, two very shy and quite, and one rowdy one 

I plan on taking Momma to get fixed at 8 weeks. Hope she's not pregnant again....

Of course the next two big hurdles have me worried:

1- they will be able to escape the cat palace grounds soon, likely by the end of the week. So my options are A) cut a door in the screen so they can come and go freely, they love the palace and I'd rather they could get back in than have one get out and wander off and not be able to get back in while we're at work. or B) increase/enclose the palace grounds with more of that plastic mesh.

2- Getting them adopted. I will post to the neighborhood, friends, family and work, any other options???????
Also I was planning on adopting them out at 8-9 weeks? Someone mentioned longer?

I'll get picks and maybe a video posted up later this week.

*Thanks so much to all of you who have helped and offered advice, I couldn't have done it without you.* :worship


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## Mitts & Tess

I would set up a havaheart trap and wire the front open for now. Start putting the food at the opening of the trap. _Slowly_, move it in the covered trap each day. You will want to trap her the day you take the kittens. Have a vet appt ready for her at the vet. She can get pregnant even while nursing kittens so time is of the essence to get her spayed before she has the opportunity to bless you with another litter of kittens!

From what you describe she has the potential to be socialized. She is a beautiful cat and looks part Siamese. A very adoptable look. 

You are doing a good dead with these kittens and mom. Kudos. She has been an amazing first time mom. You are very lucky you didnt get caught with bottle feeding babies!!!!


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## bigredfish

Thanks. Trapping momma isnt going to be a problem. She allows me to pick her up and curls up at our feet to be petted on the porch. She's a far cry from feral now. 

Should I wait 2 more weeks for the kitties to be 8 weeks old before I get momma fixed? Can do easily and vet is just across the street and does feral cats 3 days a week.

Very lucky I know.


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## Venusworld21

12 weeks is the ideal age to separate them from mom, however 8 weeks is "acceptable" in the sense that they're physically able to leave her by then. 


As far as keeping the kittens in one spot...you cannot stop them, you can only hope to contain them.  Short of putting a roof on that enclosure, I think they'll climb it, no matter how big you make it.


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## Mitts & Tess

These are the guide lines with my TNR group. Others may do it differently. 

Ideally if its a totally tame cat and inside we will let the kitten stay with it till 12 weeks. If the mom is feral we try to take them at 4 to 8 weeks. The rub is you don't want the mom teaching the kittens feral behavior or feral survival behavior. But you want the kittens eating and a bit independent walking around on their own when you take them.

If you can hold kittens and sit with the mom and she is fine with socializing the kittens you obviously can leave them longer. But if they are outside there is always a chance something bad can happen to the kittens. So you have to decide when is the optimum time to remove them and bring them inside and have the mom spayed.


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## bigredfish

Thanks for the advice. Momma is fine with us playing with the babies. She lays right beside us and likes to be petted while we play with the kids. We've taken to bringing 1-2 at a time into the house in the evening and playing with them for 15-20 minutes. Over the next 2-3 weeks we'll do it longer. (They're a bit taken back by the house 

I think we'll try adopting them out at 8 weeks- it may take a few weeks to get all 5 adopted. I'll get Momma spayed at 8 weeks also. So 2 more weeks to go as they'll be 6 weeks this Friday.

Solved the screen issue, built it a bit higher and floppy so it's almost impossible to climb out...almost :wink: And they're well protected in the cat palace compound. The occasional possum and or **** that has wondered by gets a few BB's as a deterrent and seem to get the idea not to come around, and we dont leave food out at night.

They eat a whole can of soft food each morning and evening. (Little Friskies Pate" mixed with a little water, mixed grill, salmon dinner, country something..) Momma gets a bit too and she eats 1/2 a bowl of dry food before I leave for work and have to bring the bowls back in.

Momma seems to be nursing them much less, but I still catch her doing it 1-2 times per day. 

I'm a bit concerned about the temps tonight getting down to 53, but the cat palace is well insulated with just a small opening, and I have a big soft bed in there for them which they seem to like a lot!

Put a litter box in the compound outside of the hut, not sure they are getting the idea yet,,,

May try putting kitten chow type dry food in there during the day, but the **** ants can be problematic here in Fla this time of year when food is left out for too long.

So I think things are going well, I just need to put out the word and get them adopted! I think that will be the hardest part, so cross your fingers and send any options my way!


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## Venusworld21

You can always start putting the word out to friends and family now (pictures on facebook have sealed some of my past adoption deals  ) and just say that the kittens can't leave mom for at least two more weeks. It definitely does take a few weeks to get them adopted out if you don't have access to a big network like a shelter, even adorable fuzzballs like these. Perhaps do up a flier and hang it at the vet's office. I've had kittens get adopted that way as well.


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## Mitts & Tess

Possums and coons are just trying to survive like the rest of the animals. Believe me Im not a huge fan of raccoons since they have killed so many kittens from our colonies. They are vicious. But I would never use a pellet gun and shoot them with BBs. Its cruel. Try an air horn or hose to get them to leave. Biggest thing is not leave food out at night to attract them.


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## Mandy and Ellie

If you can, angle the top of the screen at a 45 degree angle. I found out from Jackson Galaxy's show that cats won't climb on something that comes to an angle toward them at the top. It was actually interesting to learn and seems to really work.


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## bigredfish

Mandy and Ellie said:


> If you can, angle the top of the screen at a 45 degree angle. I found out from Jackson Galaxy's show that cats won't climb on something that comes to an angle toward them at the top. It was actually interesting to learn and seems to really work.


Thanks! Did that and seems to work!


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## bigredfish

UPDATE:

*Pictures*- these are their "Glamour Shots" for prospective adoption parents to view....
BigRedFish Home


So a BIG raccoon got too aggressive, and I decided to move the family onto the enclosed porch. Built a pen out of plastic fencing from Lowes and added the screening to the top. Fortunately, I had anticipated this and the new inside pen area backs up to the cat palace hut on the other side of the screen enclosure, and I cut a hole into the cat palace from the inside, sealed up the outside entrance, so they still have the same bed and hidy hole.

The area inside is 2x the size of the outside area, which is good cause the babies are 6 weeks now and growing quick, and VERY mobile! Momma is now a permanent "porch" cat and seems to have adjusted really well in just one day. I tried to get her to go outside today by leaving the door open and she just jumped up into a chair and wasn't interested.!

SO they all live inside the deck/patio/pool enclosure now, and I'm not worried about kittens getting out, and have a tricky way for momma to jump in and out of the pen and still have free roam of the patio.

I'm going to sleep much better not having to worry about the ****!

I'll post a pic of the pen area shortly.


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## bigredfish

Here's pics of the new luxury inside-the-patio cat palace. Note the entrance into the old hut at top right. This area is directly inside the screen from the original outside location.


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## bigredfish

Obviously I meant "Top Left" of the pic shows the entrance to the hut. 
(couldnt edit my post for some reason?)


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## Mandy and Ellie

I'm so glad to hear the angling worked! 

The kittens are absolutely ADORABLE! Too cute for words. They won't have any problems finding homes, that's for sure!  

Their new set-up looks great!


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## Tiliqua

What a great thread! I just found this, thank you so much for what you are doing for these cats and kittens. So happy to see that all worked out well, I'll be watching for updates now. 

Momma and babies are adorable, they shouldn't have any trouble finding homes!


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## bigredfish

UPDATE!

So 3 of the kittens have been adopted. The Twins left yesterday and my Mom is wanting the gray one. That leaves the black and white one with tiger stripes we call "Tigger" and the Momma look-a-like that appears as she does, to have some Siamese in her.

The kids were 7 weeks last Friday, and though it's a bit early, the Twins were larger and more grown than the other 3, and I' very comfortable that they were ready. They have a great home and are together which is a big plus.

The other 3 will be ready I think in another week to 10 days.

Momma doesnt seem to be nursing them much if at all, and they are all well accustomed to wet food and using the litter box.

*Sooooo...I need help getting the other two adopted SOON.* We have Holiday plans that will become problematic in just a few weeks.

Momma likes to get out in the yard for 15 minutes or so each morning and evening, and comes back in grudgingly it seems each time. But I'm noticing a subtle change in her and am concerned she's reverting back to feral, or at least isnt content being cooped up on the porch all the time.

So she's going to get fixed Wednesday I hope.

I'm really pleased that we were able to take care of them and watch them grow and care for them, and if we didnt both work, have a 15 yo inside Shi-tzu and travel, we'd have kept them all!

It's hard letting them go, but I know we're doing the right thing.

Any advice at this late stage will be greatly appreciated. We're in the greater Orlando area.

Thanks again to all of you for helping us through this, couldnt have done it without you.

Mike & Teri


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## 10cats2dogs

Oh my goodness! It just seems like it was yesterday that you were looking for advice here...
And now the kids are leaving home (tear...) already!!
Great Job Guys!!  :thumbup:


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