# FIV - semi-feral stray and her kittens. I'm conflicted.



## KeepingHope (Mar 14, 2015)

I apologize in advance. This is going to be a LONG post. If you just want the question scroll down to the bold.

I'm a sucker for animals in needs. It is a curse and a blessing. A blessing because I absolutely love giving an animal a second chance by rehabbing and rehoming it, and a curse because I am a college student and rehabbing costs MONEY and time....and, well, sometimes it ends in heartbreak.

My neighborhood is full of strays. Long story short my mom fell for a little orange cat and started feeding her. We've had her waitlisted for a no kill shelter for a while with no luck, but couldn't really do much else for her.

We call her Terra, and have been feeding her since October. She looked ok for a while but in mid December she started looking pot bellied. We figured she was pregnant since she ran around with a very poor looking long haired tom cat who is very mean. but there was nothing we thought we could do. She wasn't friendly enough to handle yet. Time kept going on....no babies. So in February, though she was even bigger but looking sunken in on the hips, we started persuing no-kills to take her since we figured she had worms. She was wait listed at that point and we worked on getting her friendlier, which was successful. We considered catching her and taking her to the vet, but we have 3 dogs (the biggest being very expensive with health problems), 2 budgies, and a cat ourselves, and felt like we couldn't afford it. I wish SO much we'd just done it.

Fast forward a LOT to a week ago (actually 6 days), and SURPRISE, she had kittens in our front garden. 2. We hadn't expected this, because she'd been big for so long, but we made her a makeshift shelter with a tarp over our bushes since it was raining, and increased her food. She seemed ok but still...lumpy, and lo and behold about 36 hours later she had 2 more babies o.o both were very very small and one hardly even moved. We were sure she was going to die. So after talking to some local people with cat experience, we decided to see if Terra would let us supplementary feed the 2 smallest but leave them with the litter. We've bottle fed orphans before but I know bottle babies are less likely to thrive and didn't want to do that. So we bought formula and luckily she has been letting us bottle feed the two smallest. They're doing great now- they just needed a little boost and sugar (we put a bit of Kayro in the milk xD) to get them going. 

But Terra....poor sweet Terra, three days ago she started going downhill FAST. She suddenly looked like she dropped a ton of weight out of the blue on Wednesday, Thursday she started wheezing with a runny nose. Friday morning we took one look at her and decided that it didn't matter that she wasn't our cat. She needed help NOW. I called 13 vets to find one that would see a feral cat immediately, and rushed her in. They took one look at her and confirmed what I was worried about, she was very, very sick. I paid for a full workup on her and xrays to make sure she didn't have any babies stuck in her causing toxicity. She not only has a huge load of round worms, but also a very bad upper respiratory infection and worst of all...FIV  Thank God, she does NOT have Leukemia, but they think that the stress of having kittens triggered it. She is currently in the chronic stage with a fever, wasting, and multiple infections....and newborn babies.

There's pretty much no hope for her really. They said she is too far gone to ever really be healthy again, so as much as it hurts, we're going to just try to pull her through long enough for the kittens. But I swear I will do everything I can to give her the best last weeks possible. I bought her antibiotics for the infection (NOT FUN to try and give eye and nose drops 2 x a day to a half feral cat . I'm lucky she's so sweet), I'm giving her high calorie food pretty much free choice, a pillow to sleep on, a shelter, and I got a dewormer for her. She started them yesterday and already seems to feel a little better. Once the kittens are weaned, if she's still doing poorly, I'll take her in and let her go peacefully so she doesn't have to suffer. Outside is no place for a cat positive with FIV in late stages, and she can't come into my home. I have an indoor cat and can't risk it since she's feral. Better to let her pass before it gets even worse, while she's more comfortable, than let her suffer outside and maybe infect more cats or get pregnant again.

But now I have to decide what to do with the kittens. There are 4, and thanks to the extra food, they're all doing well. Two male, two female. They're the cutest little things, and already have their ears open. The two oldest are belly crawling and all seem to be thriving, though of course one is WAY bigger than the others. But because we don't know if Terra was infected with FIV a long time ago and just now started exhibiting symptoms, or if she was infected while mating with the scruffy, sick looking male cat, we don't know what their chance is of having FIV. I'm distraught at the idea that they might have it, but they're way too young to tell since Terra's milk will give them a false positive right now. The vet said in 3 weeks to bring them back so we can start THEM on a dewormer, and then they have to wait until 4 months old to be tested for FIV. I hope for their sake that Terra was infected before conception. The vet and I talked for a while and decided the best plan of action is to let her keep nursing the babies as long as she is willing to eat and nurse them, then I will bring the babies in to my house and keep them away from my other cat.

But here is my delimma and what I need opinions on.

*One: knowing how sick Terra is, and how thin and compromised she is, what age is the youngest I can wean the kittens? They don't drink the bottle well, but I could let them lap up formula and feed wet kitten food once their eyes open.

Two: How high is their chance of having FIV really? Does it increase the longer they are with mom? 

Three: Would it be irresponsible of me to rehome the kittens with FULL DISCLOSURE of their possible illness, to single cat homes, to people who promise to test them at 4 months, then again if they test positive at 6 months? Or would it only be right to keep them until 4 months? If I do that, they'll be harder to rehome, and they'll have to live in a small room away from my cat the whole time. I can't take chances with my cat. 4 months is a long time to care for 4 extra animals, given how many I have already. 

Four: They aren't doomed if they have FIV right? Can I rehome them, again with full disclosure of their condition, even if I test them at 4 months old and they ARE positive? I've been reading that if indoors, with good care, they can live long healthy lives. Or do I have to put them down? *

I am only 19 myself and in college, but I will do whatever is necessary to help give these babies the absolute best chance of survival and families as possible. I WILL see this through to the end, whatever that end may be. It is a HUGE financial commitment for me but by my mom feeding that cat I feel like we took her on and she is our responsibility now. My family will not pay for any of this but agreed to let me try if I take care of all of the costs...otherwise they want to take them to the shelter, where Terra and the kittens have NO hope with FIV.

So...yeah. I'm so sorry this is so long but I'm so conflicted over what the right thing to do is for these poor, sweet cats.

Here is a picture of the two smallest kittens as a reward  both female. Now that they're doing better they're the feistiest of the group.


----------



## Cheddar (Jul 11, 2014)

I don't have any answers for you, just want to say that you and your family are very special to care for Terra and her babies. I wish you he best of luck and hope you can find the answers you need to make things work for everyone.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Nov 18, 2014)

My understanding of FIV is that it will be fine in a single cat household and can live a long overall pretty good life so long as their taken care of properly. The chances of it being passed on is pretty low. This is what I've read and been told by shelter staff recently.


----------



## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Here's some quick information on FIV...


----------



## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

KeepingHope,
You are a wonderful Angel for trying to help Terra and her babies...
(((HUGS))) and Prayers for All of you♡♡♡
Sharon


----------



## KeepingHope (Mar 14, 2015)

Thanks everyone. Everyone teases me for how much I care for the animals but I just can't help it. Who do they have if not me? I just wish I could do more for Terra. She has become SUCH a wonderful cat. All through the horrors I put her through to get her to the vet (caging, car ride, blood work, xrays, a probe up her butt, a fecal float....poor doll), and me messing with the babies, and the medicines, she has just taken it in stride. I think she knows I want to help her and the babies. What a sweet, sweet cat. If I could just get my hands on her previous owner. Grrrr 

Yes, the more I read, the more hope I have for the kittens. I'm like 90% sure that the male cat (their dad) has FIV, and I'm trying to arrange for him to be picked up because as sad as it is to doom him to that, he looks horrible and he is endangering every single other cat in our neighborhood- stray or otherwise, if he has it. I'm also pretty sure Terra contracted it from him when he mated with her, which is bad news since according to my vet, means they DO have a chance of getting it in-utero. 

Sweet little babies <3 they've stolen my heart. So I guess what I just really need to know is when the earliest I can wean them is, for Terra's sake- not theirs. I need to figure out where to put them. haha. Our cat has never seen another cat since being weaned (he's 100% sure he's a dog like our 3 other dogs, and wrestles/plays/begs with them) and while he's neutered, he's on the rough-and-tough side so I wouldn't trust him with kittens. Or my big dog either for that matter. We'll figure it out! 

I also want to see if I can find a vet who will do the early-age neutering for the males to hopefully curb their aggression in case they DO have FIV. I'll also get them all vaccinated and such before sending them to new homes, but I feel like as like as they go to knowledgable homes (NOT posting on craigslist) they'll all be a-ok.


----------



## howsefrau32 (Mar 6, 2013)

Wow, I have no idea about your questions, and I hope that someone with experience will see this and give you some good advice. I'm thinking if this might get moved to the feral thread on this board that someone over there might have some answers for you. 

I recently ran into a woman, in the cat food aisle at Target, and we started talking about cats, and she had 4 cats, all of who were FIV positive. I know there are people out there who will keep FIV cats as their only cats, like this woman I ran into, but I'm sure they are hard to find. 

You are doing the right thing, trying to get the male picked up. If he is in bad health, he will keep infecting other cats. 

I have to tell you, I am very impressed that you are a 19 year old college student and doing this all on your own. I have a 21 year old daughter in college, a cat lover too, but I don't think she would do all that you are doing to help these cats. You are a special person, and yes, definitely an angel to them. 

I have a feral cat, who was completely feral, had already been fixed and ear tipped, and over the past four years, we have turned her into a sweetheart. She sleeps in our garage during the cold months. She does not want to be inside, and I'm pretty sure she is probably FIV positive too. She has a very swollen belly, and the two times that I de-wormed her, with medicine from the vet (not OTC stuff), she got really, really sick, I thought she was going to die, so I have not done it again, and i always worry about what will happen to her because of that. I have 4 inside cats, and a dog, or I would try to bring her inside, but I don't think she would stay in, I can barely keep her in the garage sometimes. I was going to ask you, how did your feral do when you got her into the vet? This is something I think about doing, but I always feel like this will freak her out so bad that it will be too stressful for her and harm her health. I was curious how this momma cat did with a vet visit. I think my vet would have to sedate her, for sure, to be able to examine her. Also, my feral, she has been the neighborhood feral for possible 7-10 years, she is not young. I always go around and around about whether to trap her and get her into the vet, whether it would be a good thing, or stress her to the point that she gets sick. 

I hope you get some answers. You are doing a wonderful thing. It is a wonderful thing you are doing, even though, as you said, it is at times heartbreaking.


----------



## KeepingHope (Mar 14, 2015)

Thank you so much for your kind words HowseFrau. I just can't help myself when I find an animal in trouble and can't pass them by. I'm part of a Dog and Horse forum too, and I'm pretty much constantly bringing in some sort of ragged animal. LOL. Usually cats or dogs, sometimes chickens, sometimes rabbits....whatever I find. haha. And I seem to have a thing for animals with low chances of survival too, which makes for extra worry on my part. I think I subconciously like risk? LOL. I go by the handle of "Endiku" on most forums, and I've taken in crazy OCD blind dogs with luxating patella (still have him. Haha, he's my baby boy), emaciated horses with EHV (equine herpes virus), and now a cat with FIV...I am destined to always be poor at this rate. But I'm helping other living creatures, and that is what matters most.

Regarding Terra (momma cat), I hate to make you too optimistic with what I tell you, just in case, so let me caution you that when I caught her on Friday she was very, very poorly and at the point where she really didn't care a whole lot what we did to her, and she was also 'tied down' to her babies which gave her incentive to not fight us. That being said I think we've tamed her down pretty well and she was absolutely phenomenal for the vet. She fretted a little bit when I closed her in to the cage ( lured her in with canned food), but settled when she realized her babies were with her and she let us pull her out and put her on the exam table without any problems. I had told them beforehand that she was feral and would need sedation but she ended up being calm enough that they didn't need it. Honestly she did better than my own indoor cat does....LOL. But like I said I think that is because 1. she is very ill at this point and 2. she was pretty darned scared but trusts us to an extent. 

After the exam though I made sure to set her cage (a large airy one so she didn't feel claustrophobic, but I covered it with a sheet) near her nest and let her calm down before trying to let her out. I scratched her through the cage, talked to her, then fed her as soon as she came out so she wouldn't associate the cage with 'bad.' I ended up leaving the babies in the cage and she is now using it as her new nest, which is great. I don't think her reaction was typical though honestly. 

I've been doing the same with when we do her eye drops. I give her lots of scratches and pieces of boiled chicken, then do the evil deed while holding her scruff, but don't let her go immediately. I wait until she's done huffing and squirming after I put the drops in, then scratch her plenty and feed her more chicken before letting her go. haha. That way she associates me with good as the last thing we do. I usually sit and talk with her after medicating too. She's such a tolerant, forgiving little gal.


----------



## Jenny bf (Jul 13, 2013)

Keeping Hope, I echo what others have said, you are truly wonderful to do what you are for Terra and her kittens. Assuming the worse ( although hoping for the best) FIV kittens will I am sure not be easy but not impossible to home as people automatically assume they are going to be sickly and live short lives and cost lots of extra money. I don't know what your rescues are like in your area but maybe they know of people who are willing to add to an already FIV family. They could I assume go in pairs which means it would be easier to find half as many people.


----------



## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

It's very unlikely that the kittens will inherit the FIV from mom:

FIV Kittens

Many people have households that are a mix of FIV+ and FIV-. It's very difficult to pass between cats...usually only through deep bite wounds. In fact I have a friend that has one of each and they've been doing great for years. I think that you could adopt the kittens out to anyone who is willing to take them that understands the risk and implications completely. 

I would wean the kittens as soon as it seems feasible to take the pressure off of mom. Even if you can do a combination of bottle feeding and nursing for the time being. 

The kittens should stay together for 12 weeks. There are a ton of socialization skills to be learned from litter mates (and mom if she's able). One of the most important is about biting, which will be very important if these kittens are to be integrated into a home with other cats. Siblings will teach each other how hard they can bite and have it be considered play.


----------



## Marcia (Dec 26, 2010)

Personally, I would call all the shelters and see if there is one that would take the kittens into foster. A foster mom can feed them and wean them with no problems. We get motherless kittens in to foster all the time at our shelter. I don't think I would dwell in the FIV in momma. A healthy cat that has been on a good diet will most likely be very much able to fight infections. Your momma was feral, outside exposed to the elements and gave birth. If ANYTHING was going to trigger an immune deficiency and bring on complications that would.


----------



## KeepingHope (Mar 14, 2015)

I've contacted so many rescues so far but my city is FULL of strays and abuse so it is nearly impossible to find a queen to nurse them and rescues here seem very ill informed on FIV and will euthanize if there is even a good.chance the have FIV but I will keep trying. My current goal is to have her nurse 6 Weeks if she is able that long, then bring them in. I will.vet them again at 2 Weeks for worming then again for vaccination and at about 10 Weeks start looking for homes but not actually rehoming til 3 months. Any still with me at 4 months will be FIV tested and neutered if i find a vet willing.

Theyve now been named. Ryleigh and Zane are the boys, Hope and Kismet are the girls


----------



## Arianwen (Jun 3, 2012)

I have an FIV+ cat - she has it but her son (whom I also have) is negative. It's a bit of a lottery with litters but by no means a certainty that they will have the same problem. Most of her litter did not have it.

The rescue I support (from where she came) has a room full of FIV cats (with their own sofas etc.). Some of them are over 16 years of age.

It also less dangerous to other cats once she has been neutered (if she survives) than something like FILV as it isn't passed on by things like sharing bowls. Normally it is passed on by serious fights and sex.

Before I took her in, I was sent some brilliant links and advice from this site (thanks to all who helped) and did a lot of research and FIV+ cats really should be given a greater chance when it comes to adoption. There is certainly no need to have the kittens put to sleep if they are positive. I don't know enough about the situation in other countries / states but in the UK it would be a decision for you and there are no regulations to push you into having it done.


----------



## KeepingHope (Mar 14, 2015)

That's so encouraging to hear. Thanks.

Terra seems to be feeling better but she's getting very annoyed with us medicating her and doesn't want to be approached today. She also tried to move a kitten earlier when our neighbor's van startled her, but we put it back and she seems to have calmed down. Poor gal has been through a LOT.

Here is a picture of babies and momma. The babies are doing fabulous. I know Terra doesn't look too bad in these pictures and she's doing much better after 3 days of antibiotics, but I can still feel her spine  she's just so bloated still, despite being dewormed.


----------



## Jenny bf (Jul 13, 2013)

I'm not sure what other posters think but would it not be an idea, if you have a room to bring the kittens and Terra indoors now? If she is away from your other animals there is no risk to her or the kittens. I am just thinking it would be awful to come out one morning and find she moved them all in the night.
Just a thought.


----------



## KeepingHope (Mar 14, 2015)

My only option for bringing them in is a large dog crate or my tiny bathroom/tub. I hadn't yet brouht her in because the large crate isnt much room and she could easily escape the bathroom when I open the door, and I have a dog with a big prey drive. I worry about her safety. My garage isn't an option, too many things could hurt her. If yall think it is best my dog cage is the best option but will be quite cramped with 4 babies, her, food , water and a litter box.


----------



## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

I'd go for the bathroom. Even if it's tiny it'll work out ok. Just make a point of putting your dog behind another door when you go to the bathroom for safety's sake. I know it seems like a huge pain, but it'll only be for a few weeks.


----------



## KeepingHope (Mar 14, 2015)

Ok, I'll do that. I'm afraid she isn't going to make it much longer anyways at this point  her infection is getting worse despite the antibiotics, and the eye gunk has spread to the kittens. I took them in for antibiotics this afternoon but we're just so limited right now because they're so young. Two of their eyes started opening though! Zane is having the hardest time of all of them. I'm going out every few hours to dab their eyes with wet Q tips. We're going to have to wean them into lapping up milk (won't take a bottle) ASAP I think  any tips? we have formula.


----------



## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

You can try syringe feeding them. Here's a few tips:

-Use one of the nipples that come with kitten bottles to put on the end of the syringe. The hard syringe plastic can hurt their little mouths.
-Syringe feed rather than bottle. Nursing from a mum-cat is different than nursing from a bottle, and some kittens have a tough time getting the hang of bottles. A syringe can make sure they eat until they get the hang of suction.
-Rather than punching holes or cutting the tip of the nipple right off cut a big X directly on the tip - it works WAY better any gives you a bit more leeway
-Start the Mum on l-lysine - it sounds like she might have a secondary infection going and it's likely she's also got feline herpes. The more you can do to boost her system the better. The L-lysine will help her fight the herpes, if she's got it (most outdoor/rescue cats do).
-Bring her in, feed her warmed canned food with added water and as much as she wants. The less she has to work the better chance she's got, and if you bring her in the kittens will have the best shot even if you do loose mum.

I hope she can hang on - if she' makes it past weaning the kits she'll have a chance maybe.


----------



## KeepingHope (Mar 14, 2015)

l-Lysine is actually the one thing she is on that we're able to get into her. We're just mixing it into her wet food twice a day. 2.5 ml. We feed her the liver and beef canned food, high fat, and kitten food per the vet's suggestion.


----------



## spirite (Jul 31, 2012)

Oh she looks like a sweet girl, and of course the big pile o' kittens is adorable. It's really sad that she's in such bad health. These poor ferals and strays have such a tough life - the really lucky ones find someone like you to take care of them. 

If Terra continues to decline, at least she has someone who cares enough to allow her to pass away without pain. 

Her condition just makes the whole situation so much more difficult for you. Kudos to you for hanging in there and being willing to put in the time, the money, and perhaps most important, the emotional energy and attachment that this is asking of you. 

Head scratches to Terra.


----------



## KeepingHope (Mar 14, 2015)

Thanks Spirite. The vet is saying the same thing- if we can get her to make it another 2-3 weeks she has a fighting chance. Of course I don't know what I'll do with her, my family is very against having a feral FIV cat in our house because we have an indoor cat, and my dog isn't very cat friendly- but we'll figure it out as time goes on.


----------



## Arianwen (Jun 3, 2012)

Dogs are in no danger at all - it doesn't cross species. If your indoor cat is non-aggressive, then there is no real risk there either.


----------



## KeepingHope (Mar 14, 2015)

Oh I know it cant cross species. Im worried about HER. See, one of my 3 dogs is semi blind and startles easily. When he startles, he gets aggressive. He also has a big prey drive and he and the indoor cat fight occasionally. Terra is terrified of dogs. My indoor cat isn't MEAN but plays rough with the dogs and instigates. I just dont think Terra would be safe longterm at my home. I also have budgies which I worry she might get to and eat because of instinct.


----------



## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

KeepingHope,
How is everyone doing?
All Paws Crossed for her and kittens,
Sharon


----------



## Arianwen (Jun 3, 2012)

I've been wondering as well. Hope all is well.


----------



## Marcia (Dec 26, 2010)

KeepingHope said:


> My only option for bringing them in is a large dog crate or my tiny bathroom/tub. If yall think it is best my dog cage is the best option but will be quite cramped with 4 babies, her, food , water and a litter box.


That would be perfect! I use dog kennels all the time. See if you can get Home Depot or Lowes to cut a piece of wood to size for a ledge. Ask them nicely if they would PLEASE drill 4 holes in the corners so you can tie warp them in to place as a ledge (if you don't own your own drill). This will give momma a place to escape to for r&r. Everyone can stay in there when you are not in the room until fully weaned (4-6 weeks).


----------



## Jet Green (Nov 28, 2005)

KeepingHope, I appreciate all you're doing for this cat, and I understand your dilemma completely. 

I've had a number of semi-feral cats test positive for FIV, ones I couldn't keep inside, and struggled with what to do. Both Neighborhood Cats and Alley Cat Allies had some advice on FIV+ ferals that I found helpful. Here's what Neighborhood Cats has to say: "TNR does not mean creating a world without risk for feral cats - it's about improving the situation, not about making it perfect. The disease was present before you came along. By getting the cats neutered and implementing a managed colony, you've vastly improved the quality of the cats' lives and no one should criticize your decision to let the animal return to his family and not euthanize him because of a test result."

I did put my FIV+ ferals back outside. Only one was female, and she was a little under the weather after her spaying, so I kept her confined for awhile and took her back in to the vet. They gave her some fluids and she was fine after that, and lived in apparent good health for years. She was in the earlier stages of FIV+, though.

More recently I had a beloved outdoor cat (born and raised outside long before I adopted him) who developed terminal cancer. This was a cat who absolutely freaked out whenever I brought him inside, clawing the doors and such, so I held my breath and let him stay outside through most of the illness, even though I was terrified he would disappear and die in pain. I only took him inside near the end when he was sickest, and he wasn't even happy about that. It was heartwrenching, but sometimes there are no good options, just the least-worst. 

Only you can decide what's best for this situation, and it's OK to take your own needs and resources into account as well as the kitty's. It's easy for any of us to tell you to just adopt her and keep her in, but only you know if that's something you can handle. 

If you can't, you've identified two options, euthanasia or spay/release. Neither one of those is perfect, but both are better than the hard life she had before you took her in. I personally tend to err on the side of letting them live outside, even at the risk of a harder death later. But this is your call. Whatever you decide, know that you've already done a lot to help this kitty. However much time she has left will be more comfortable, and her kittens will live MUCH better lives because of you.


----------



## KeepingHope (Mar 14, 2015)

Thanks so much. My current plan right now is to bring her in for reevaluation next Friday,along with the kittens to get them wormed. She's looking significantly better even though she's only on l Lysine, so I'm hoping for the best. If she has no fever and seems to be gaining weight (seems like she is!), and the vet is optimistic, then I'm going to get her vaccinations and plan to get her spayed. I can't keep her in my home but I CAN take over her medical care as an outdoor cat. I know that isn't the absolute best option but in the end I can't bring her in without my parent's permission since this is their home, and they aren't willing to take in a 7th animal, understandably. I will keep her healthy as long as I can, and go from there.

And now....BABY PICTURES!!!!! They started opening their eyes 3 days ago...and also got eye infections just like their mom, but I had them on eye drops within 10 hours of initial sight of goop, and they're all clear already ^_^ They're staying in the x large carrier, but I've been letting Terra do partly indoor and party outdoor because she goes absolutely beserk in that cage after a few hours. Seems to be going pretty well.

Skylar - 10 days old. Cream colored. She's a sweet, sweet little gal who loves to cuddle. Very adventurous and the first to try to leave the box....while here eyes were still closed! Short haired.






























Zane! what a CHUB CHUB. He is the biggest and calmest. He loves sleeping on his back. Likely a medium hair. Solid orange smile emoticon



















Ryleigh- SO photogenic with huge eyes. Longhaired orange with white feet and chest. He loves his siblings and cleans them. Loves to be held! 



















Kaitlyn- calico. She has such cool markings! Very adventurous just like Skylar and already purrs


----------



## KeepingHope (Mar 14, 2015)

Sorry this is Zane. The second one up there is Ryleigh.


----------



## spirite (Jul 31, 2012)

Eeeee, a whole pile o' adorable furry kittens!!! That little calico is adorable. And Skylar might be a handful if she's already trying to figure out how to get out! 

I'm SO glad to hear that Terra seems to be doing a bit better. Do you have any pics of her? 

You're doing everything you can for them - and a lot more than most people would. If Terra is healthy other than being FIV+, and a shelter won't take her, she wouldn't have the worst life as an outdoor kitty with you to watch out for her. I've been taking care of a stray for 5 years now, and while I've let him in when it's been particularly cold out, he's essentially 100% outdoors. He goes to the vet every year and has a little house with a heated pad inside my screened-in porch and he's truly happier outdoors. 

Just keeping my fingers crossed that Terra continues to do well and to improve!


----------



## KeepingHope (Mar 14, 2015)

Unfortunately Terra has been slipping backwards in the past few days, despite our best efforts. The vet has us trying one more thing, but at this point we're probably going to have to put her down soon. I REALLY don't want to, but she's eating the best food I can give her ad lib, staying in almost completely, and still losing weight. We're pulling the kittens off of her in a week if all goes ok- we're going to teach the kittens to lap milk and feed that to them until they're old enough to eat. They're 2 weeks old now. 

The babies are doing wonderful though. They just finished their eye drops and are wide eyed and bushy tailed. They're awake a lot now, and Ryleigh is actually 'sort of' walking already. Skylar has figured out how to climb out of the crate, so we had to emprovise a 'baby gate' for her. Everyone can hear and see now and they're SO cute. They're being dewormed on Friday when I bring them and mama back to the vet. Zane does NOT to be like picked up and has a loud squeal, but otherwise they all seem to like us xD

Suggestions on how to milk-dish train them? I had minimal success with the bottle.


----------



## Arianwen (Jun 3, 2012)

At that age, bottle is best. That's not a lot of help, I'm afraid. Some mothers, even without this problem, do lose a lot of weight while feeding. Please take that into account when making your decision. In a way, this is especially so when you are gong to early wean anyway. Give her the chance to pick back up.


----------



## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

I found that the kittens I bottle raised did way better if you start them off with a syringe that you put a nipple-tip on. The soft nipple tip protects their mouths from the hard syringe plastic, and the syringe lets you squeeze dribbles of formula into them even if they can't suckle.


----------



## KeepingHope (Mar 14, 2015)

I definitely plan to as long as all looks ok for her at the vet. I really do want her to do alright. She's probably dropped 2 or 3 more pounds...she's probably 5 lbs now and should be 8  

Librarychick, thanks. That is what I am currently doing, but they just keep fighting and spitting the milk out.

I'm trying hard to get the babies to drink but since they know mom will feed them, they just fight the bottle. I don't feel safe taking them off of her until they will drink, but at this point that doesn't seem to be possible. Terra can't stand to lose more weight. We'll see what the vet says to do on Saturday. Once the babies are off of her I think she has a fighting chance but getting her to that point is the problem.


----------



## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

KeepingHope,
IF....I missed it somewhere...you are using KMR, right?
(Kitten Replacement Milk).
(((HUGS))) for you, and Prayers for Terra...PetPets for her...
Sharon


----------



## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

KeepingHope said:


> Librarychick, thanks. That is what I am currently doing, but they just keep fighting and spitting the milk out.
> 
> I'm trying hard to get the babies to drink but since they know mom will feed them, they just fight the bottle. I don't feel safe taking them off of her until they will drink, but at this point that doesn't seem to be possible. Terra can't stand to lose more weight. We'll see what the vet says to do on Saturday. Once the babies are off of her I think she has a fighting chance but getting her to that point is the problem.


Oh! That's a different issue then!

To kittens the formula tastes gross - apparently. I found different formulas to work better than others (with Just Born being the paws down favorite of every kitten I ever bottle fed - AND also the hardest to find, of course.), but a good trick for any formula to make it more palatable is to add either 1 egg yolk to a big jug (like 1-2 liters) of formula, or to add about 1/4 tsp corn syrup to a jug of the same size. They tend to like that a bit better 

I'd take them off mum right now. They've had the colostrum, and that's the most important bit. She needs the nutrients and everything she's been giving them so she can get better. Switch them right over, IMO. As an added bonus, once mum isn't feeding them they'll start taking the bottle more readily. As it is they won't stop suckling until she runs out of milk, which could be soon but too late for her.

Generally, keeping the kittens with mum is WAY better, but in this case with the mum's health so bad and the kittens already at 2 weeks I think it's worth it to give her a chance to live.


----------



## KeepingHope (Mar 14, 2015)

Yes I am using replacement milk. I added a tsp of kayro syrup to 5 Oz but.they still wouldn't take it. Should I add more? I am going to try to hold them over til friday when I can get the vets opinion, then I will take them off of her and work on fattening the poor thing up. By the the oldest 2 will be 20 days old, ans the youngest will be 18. I just worry about disrupting them when their health is so good but I have no choice really.


----------



## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

Don't add more, but do take them off mum. She's so ill that she really can't be supporting them as well as herself. Once mum isn't around to feed them they'll start taking the formula much easier, and they certainly won't switch until it's the only option.


----------



## KeepingHope (Mar 14, 2015)

Will do.

They're cheeky little buggars! Zane hissed at me today. hahaha


----------



## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

AW!! I SO miss kitten hisses! XD

I think my favorite thing was when they learned to purr though - teeny babies can't purr. They learn it about 10-14 days and I just LOVED the stop-start purring as they were catching on.

We definitely need more pics of the sweet little fluff balls


----------



## Jet Green (Nov 28, 2005)

I'm sorry to hear that the mom isn't doing as well.  It sounds like you're doing everything that can done, and whatever happens, she and the kittens are much better off because you came along.


----------



## KeepingHope (Mar 14, 2015)

Ill take some more tomorrow I love seeing their personalities develope.. I noticed today that Ryleighs eyes are weird....his pupils are angled laterally so that they dont focus? But he has the.most.motor skills and can see. I am,going to ask the vet about it. I also worry about how lethargic Zane is. I Hope he is just a lazy boy and doesnt have something wrong.


----------



## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

At 2 weeks (right?) It'd be sort of a miracle if his eyes DID focus. Its normal for the pupils to seem a bit fuzzy and his eyes to be unfocused. They dont get any real movement tracking until closer to 3 1/2-4 weeks. 

It wouldn't hurt to ask the vet, but my bet is he's just fine.

As for Zane, are you weighing them? If he's gaining or holding steady you're probably ok...but if he's losing or you haven't been weighing him you should definitely ask the vet. And get a food scale. Kitten weights are a really helpful way to make sure they're doing well.


----------



## KeepingHope (Mar 14, 2015)

I keep forgetting to get pictures of Terra, and she is DONE with me right now since I took her to the vet again. Sorry, I'll get more soon! But here are baby pictures/videos 

Video (click) of the babies toddling around. Excuse my voice, I have a cold.
http://vid1117.photobucket.com/albums/k592/asylumescapee95/Kittens - 3 weeks 015_zpsgkqhbfgk.mp4











Kaitlyn has a persian-ish face to me. It is built different than her sibling's.









CUTIE



























Ryleigh is a TOTAL ham. Constantly picking on his siblings and waking everyone up.









funky eyes 









Skylar. She has TEMPER and hisses/spits at us daily. hahahaha



























The kittens were dewormed for the first time, and the vet says that all look really great. She's amazed that all 4 survived and are doing well. Skylar and Ryleigh are both 16.5 oz, and Zane and Caitlyn are 18.5 oz chunksters. They're off of mom as of yesterday, and the vet has us giving them 2 part kitten milk, 1 part canned food. They aren't really catching on yet so we're syringe feeding too.

Terra is doing better than we thought. 2 weeks ago, right after the babies were born, she weighed 9 lbs 14 oz. Today she is 9 lbs 1 oz, so she has lost weight, but the vet says all things considered, she is doing ok. She still has a little meat on her bones and eats enough for a horse. Her fever and infection are gone, so she got her rabies shot today, as well as Revolution flea/tick/heartworm medicine, and a refill of her l-Lysine Durlactin since that seems to help her a lot. We also were given something called FortiFlora, which is a cat probiotics that the vet recommended to help boost her immune system. We're going to give her a few weeks then bring her back to see if she can gain back some weight now that the kittens are off of her, then see about getting the rest of her vaccinations and see about trying to get her spayed. 

So that's where we are right now ^_^ the kittens have fleas but cannot yet have any kind of killer for that so we're just supposed to dab fleas as we see them with alchohol.


----------



## Jet Green (Nov 28, 2005)

That's great news!  So happy mom is doing better, and the kittens look like they're thriving!  Sooo adorable...


----------



## Arianwen (Jun 3, 2012)

Wonderful news - and gorgeous pictures.


----------



## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

KeepingHope said:


> We also were given something called FortiFlora, which is a cat probiotics that the vet recommended to help boost her immune system. We're going to give her a few weeks then bring her back to see if she can gain back some weight now that the kittens are off of her, then see about getting the rest of her vaccinations and see about trying to get her spayed.
> 
> So that's where we are right now ^_^ the kittens have fleas but cannot yet have any kind of killer for that so we're just supposed to dab fleas as we see them with alchohol.


The kittens can have fortiflora too, and it'll be good for them 

You can't give them flea meds but you CAN guve them a bath with Dawn dishsoap - and that will also kill the fleas.


----------



## meggie (Mar 13, 2014)

Omg! Are they cute! Glad to hear that mom is doing better. You're doing a great job taking care of this family.


----------



## Jenny bf (Jul 13, 2013)

OOh so cute! and those little jelly bean pink paws. Great job. Hope momma keeps getting better.


----------



## annegirl (Oct 16, 2012)

Keeping Hope, Any update on Terra and the babies? Rooting for her.


----------



## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Yes! We need an update! Please?! And some more pictures! 
(((HUGS))) Prayers, and Healing Vibes being sent! 
Sharon


----------



## KeepingHope (Mar 14, 2015)

Sorry it has been absolutely crazy week full of vets. 

Im very heartbroken to say it, but we are now down to 3 of 4 kittens. Sweet Ryleigh, who seemed to be the healthiest, passed 3 days ago with no outward signs of illness. He was eating, defecating, walking, playing....then just died in his sleep an hour after I last checked on him. vet and I are stumped. I immediately took the others to vet, thinking maybe they had coccidia, but they're all fine, and are still thriving.

R.I.P Little Ryleigh  

On a lighter note though everyone else is fabulous.getting big, and finally taking the bottle really nicely. They are each 3 1/2 Weeks old now! Zane already uses the litter box and cleans up after his sisters. All 3 of them run and play already and Kaitlyn is a love bug. They're all currently on formula and fortiflora. They loooove fortiflora and when I started adding it to their milk they suddenly started guzzling it which is fabulous! I hate force feeding since you risk aspiration.

Terra is REALLY improving. She has probably gained a pound since I took the babies off of her, and now that she is medicated, De wormed/flea/heart wormed, and vaccinated, she is well on her way to health if we can just keep infections away. I will take pictures this afternoon! The babies are absolutely lovely.


----------



## Arianwen (Jun 3, 2012)

So sorry about your lost kitten but glad the mother is doing so well. You ahve done a brilliant job.


----------



## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

KeepingHope, 
I'm so sorry about Ryleigh...
She at least knew warmth and love, before she Flew to The Bridge...

The news about Terra, is Awesome! 
I'll be looking forward to seeing some pictures! 
(((HUGS))) and Prayers for the rest,
Sharon


----------



## KeepingHope (Mar 14, 2015)

Thanks. I keep trying to figure out if I did anything wrong, but I can't figure it out. What really worries me though is that because I don't know what happened, what if that happens to the other babies? Ryleigh looked perfectly fine!


Here are pictures! These danged kitties have already cost poor college-student-me $330 (including mama) but I just can't say no <3

I'm currently giving them KMR newborn, but just bought them 2nd step KMR to start using next week (can be lapped from a bowl), and went ahead and bought the kitten food I want them to eat too. I decided to go with Hills Ideal Balance kitten formula because it has L-Lysine in it, which may help them if they do have FIV, and omegas....as well as no corn/wheat/soy, and the first ingredients as 'chicken, pork, and brown rice' unlike most others in the store. Hopefully it works well for them, it's noooot cheap. lol

leave us alone, we don't care if the cat forum wants to see us- our bellies are full and it is nap time!









my ugly mug (excuse how gross I probably look, I went out horseback riding....in the rain. lol









ignore my siblings. I'm fabulous!









Night night Zane <3









OMG I THINK SHE IS NALA's TWIN. And she's so feisty too...she hisses at me regularly and beats up her siblings. hahaha


















Mama  glad to be outside, and NOT at the vet. haha. I know it is hard to see that she looks better, but she was SOOOO sunken in and bloated even a week ago, and now she actually has some meat on her spine!









how do I look guys?









she always looks so sad in pictures though 









Look guys, I actually have a female's physique now!!! No worm belly for me 









SAY IT ISN'T TRUE. Another cat showed up....I'm trying to figure out what to do with her. I truly can.not.afford.another.cat, but chances are she has FIV too....She's soooo friendly but Terra hates her which puts her at risk if she gets bit and doesn't have it..


----------



## BotanyBlack (Apr 6, 2011)

OMG that torti!!.. *tosses stamps at the screen* mail her to me! Now!.. yeah right now!!

It is probably nothing you could do. Sometimes. kittens fade overnight. and alot of times it can be very unexpected. ((hugs))


----------



## spirite (Jul 31, 2012)

Oh, I'm sorry about Ryleigh.  But it's really good to hear that it seems Terra has turned the corner and will be ok! She's got gorgeous green eyes - they're stunning on her ginger self.  

Oh no, another kitty...but if she's friendly, maybe she's just out enjoying the weather??

You're doing a wonderful job with those kittens, but you definitely don't need yet another kitty to worry about!


----------



## Arianwen (Jun 3, 2012)

Why do you think this one is FIV positive?


----------



## KeepingHope (Mar 14, 2015)

Isn't she adorable?! Everyone just loves her. 

Arianwin, just a hunch. The FIV positive male 
cat is stil out there because I cant catch him. He is too smart. So chances are high he has mated her too or bitten her. She also has a cold or something and coughs


----------



## Arianwen (Jun 3, 2012)

Does she seem to be pregnant? Hope not. If he has then it is a real possibility.


----------



## KeepingHope (Mar 14, 2015)

No, but may be only a few Weeks along. should I take her to a shelter? I hate to do it, but otherwise it is a matter of time.before she.is FIV or pregnant. She seems highly adoptable.


----------



## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

KeepingHope, 
I think that would be an awesome idea, especially, if she's adoptable! Best chance for her health, all the way around.
Sharon


----------



## KeepingHope (Mar 14, 2015)

Great! Ill see if I can bring her on Monday


----------



## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

KeepingHope, 
Let us know how it works out for this pretty girl!
Good luck!
Sharon


----------



## KeepingHope (Mar 14, 2015)

Cross your fingers everyone- Terra goes in to have a blood panel on Tuesday, to hopefully be okayed for Spay surgery. She hangs precariously between healthy and sick, which worries me....she basically has to stay on Duralactin 2x a day or she goes downhill pretty rapidly. As long as she is on it she does ok....but it is getting expensive. One tube only lasts about 7 days, and each tube is $13. I'm REALLY hoping they can ok her though, because she is outside and there are male cats out there. I've caught one and taken it in, but I saw another a few days ago. She can NOT afford to get pregnant again...I just hope she isn't already pregnant. If she can not be spayed, or the vet thinks I won't be able to get her healthy enough, I may have to consider putting her down because 1. I just can NOT afford more babies. Between her and the kittens I've spent $400 already, and I'm about to spend more on a second worming for the kittens and a blood panel for her, then on kitten vaccines, then on their FIV test. 2. Her upkeep is very expensive. I'm in college and paying my own way through. I'm spending $55 a week just on her food, Duralactin, and Fortiflora. She looks ok, not like she'll die on her own....but still not good. Without these medicines I don't think she'd be doing alright. I HATE to make finances an issue but I just can't do this for long, especially if she can't even be spayed. So...yeah. Wish her luck on Tuesday, I REALLY hope we get good news.

The kittens are all doing very well and are handfulls! We're still battling small flea problems (I see one every few days) but I cant give them and medicine for that for 3 more weeks so I use a flea comb and wash them weekly with Dawn. They eat well and are big, fat, and happy! 2 of 3 are drinking from a dish now- 1 sort of kind of does, but they all also take a bottle still. They're 4 1/2 weeks old right now


----------



## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

KeepingHope,
You can buy the Duralactin online!
I need to order some soon, I use the form of it, that comes In gel caps, I break them apart and mix in Snicker's canned food.
I'm at work right now, but when I get home, I'll take a look at the bottle, for a brand name!
So glad the rest of the kittens are doing good!
(((HUGS))) and Prayers, for Terra,
Sharon


----------



## KeepingHope (Mar 14, 2015)

That would be great! I considered just buying L Lysine capsuls but I wasn't sure if that would work.


----------



## KeepingHope (Mar 14, 2015)

Does this work? WAAAAY cheaper than the tube! I can totally do that. I buy my dog's Glucosamine Chondrotin MSG (he has Luxating Patella) off Amazon too so that would be easy.


----------



## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

KeepingHope, 
That's the brand I get! Recognized it immediately! 
Yes, it works!

The L-lysine you can buy, is the human kind, in gel caps also!
Marcia gets some from Amazon, I think, that is 'just' the powder, and she measures it out...I haven't found that one yet, but I'm sure would also be more cost effective!
Sharon


----------



## KeepingHope (Mar 14, 2015)

Maybe I'll try PMing her. Thanks! Powder would be great. She's such a neat kitty and I'll do what I have to do but cheaper is always better, especially since I have a special needs dog too xD


----------



## Arianwen (Jun 3, 2012)

You can do it, Hope! At this very moment, I have an FIV + cat on my lap and one with feline hyperthesia syndrome on the right hand arm of the chair.


----------



## KeepingHope (Mar 14, 2015)

She took another nosedive last night for the worse....we're in constant limbo here with her  Her belly is horribly bloated despite her Fortiflora and Duralactin, so I'm really not sure what's going on. We're on standby to get her in tomorrow to see what's going on this time.

Thanks Ariawin, I have to admit, she has me constantly worried, but I REALLY do hope she's going to pull through and do ok. If we can't figure out how to manage her more consistently though, I'm not sure how we're going to do surgery.


----------



## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

KeepingHope,
Any update on Terra? Were you able to get her to the vet??
Praying for a Miracle for this valiant little mama...
Sharon


----------



## BotanyBlack (Apr 6, 2011)

Hoping for a good turn around for her.


----------



## KeepingHope (Mar 14, 2015)

She wouldn't let me catch her in time for the slot they had open today, but she has one tomorrow and I lured her into a kennel this evening. I stuck a litter box in and I'll definitely have her in then. I'm 99% sure she's in heat....she was yowling today, and 2 male cats showed up....I'm picking up a trap as soon as I'm approved, to get rid of them, but I'm worried they already got her. I honestly don't know what to do. There are so many strays in my neighborhood, mostly male, and none of them look good. I pray she isn't already pregnant.


----------



## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Oh Dear Lord! No Terra doesn't need that to happen again!
Is there ANY chance, she could get spayed now?? I know she's not the healthiest, but if she gets pregnant again...I'm afraid it will be the end of her...
Poor Sweet girl...
(((HUGS))) and Prayers, 
Sharon


----------



## KeepingHope (Mar 14, 2015)

That's what I'm going to insist on tomorrow. We need to decide either to 1. Spay her now and hope for the best or 2. if she's too sick, put her down. I truly have no other options. If she gets pregnant she WILL die. I'm worried about their answer though, her hips are badly sunken and her belly is distended again. 

I'm convinced there has to be a hoarder home somewhere around here. I catch a cat, and another appears. There are 4, including her, on our street currently....none of them look very good. I am charged every time I bring a cat in, and it is so dangerous for Terra...and them. If they don't have FIV I'm scared she'll give it to them either through them trying to mate with her, or through her biting them as ferals do. She makes some nasty hisses and swipes when they come near 'her property', and really worries me. She's also very upset with me right now for taking her kittens, and I'm worried if we can't get something definitive done soon she's going to stop letting me catch her now that I don't have her babies to lure her in. She's a GOOD girl but a cat will only let you haul it to the vet so many times before it figure you out.


----------



## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

KeepingHope, 
You're in a really rough spot, with the decisions you have to make...
I truly hope your vet is completely honest with you, so you can make the most informed decision regarding Terra's chances, and quality of life...
You've gone above and beyond with her already, because of you, she got to have her kittens, and a chance of life, she certainly wouldn't of had, without your intervention...
(((HUGS))) and Prayers, 
Sharon


----------



## KeepingHope (Mar 14, 2015)

It's tearing me up that it has come to this. I hate whoever put these cats in this situation....many of them seem like at one point they were tame. If they only knew the pain they've caused Terra, and me. 

But at least the babies are thriving. So far no one has sounded interesting in adopting one from me despite the fact that they will be coming wormed, vaccinated, and flea protected....but rehoming cats is tough. Luckily we still have another 6 weeks or so before they're ready to leave anyways. 

When I'm stressed from school or work, I just go in and sit with them. Their antics could cheer anyone up!


----------



## Arianwen (Jun 3, 2012)

Bless you.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Nov 18, 2014)

KeepingHope said:


> It's tearing me up that it has come to this. I hate whoever put these cats in this situation....many of them seem like at one point they were tame. If they only knew the pain they've caused Terra, and me.
> 
> But at least the babies are thriving. So far no one has sounded interesting in adopting one from me despite the fact that they will be coming wormed, vaccinated, and flea protected....but rehoming cats is tough. Luckily we still have another 6 weeks or so before they're ready to leave anyways.
> 
> When I'm stressed from school or work, I just go in and sit with them. Their antics could cheer anyone up!



I understand why you'd hate and I can't blame you I would to well I do hate those who cause situations like this one. You've done everything you can for her regardless of the result and your doing everything you can for the kittens.

As for getting them adopted I'm sure you've got enough time to do so still hoping for the best myself for you and the whole family.


----------



## KeepingHope (Mar 14, 2015)

I'm too upset to elaborate right now, but I had to decide to put Terra down. Every time I start to try to write something I start to cry...

Rest in peace, beautiful girl. I will do my absolute best by you for your babies, and they will never want for anything if I have any say. I'm sorry I couldn't save you. I let you down. I'm sorry you'll never know a home.....but I hope you know I loved you.


----------



## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

KeepingHope, 
I'm so sorry...:'(
You did more for Terra, than most people would even think about...
She had so much stacked against her...
I think you made the right decision, to let her Fly to the Bridge...
Lots and lots of (((HUGS))) across the miles...
We're here for you...
Sharon


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Nov 18, 2014)

KeepingHope said:


> I'm too upset to elaborate right now, but I had to decide to put Terra down. Every time I start to try to write something I start to cry...
> 
> Rest in peace, beautiful girl. I will do my absolute best by you for your babies, and they will never want for anything if I have any say. I'm sorry I couldn't save you. I let you down. I'm sorry you'll never know a home.....but I hope you know I loved you.



I had a feeling that you'd be saying that. But you do have something wrong I know it's natural for one to blame themselves when were unable to save an animal whether it's our own pet or not I've done it twice with both my dog when she passed when I was 18 and with Tsuki last month. But you did what you could and at the end helped her in the only way you could. Your wrong about one other thing when you say she never knew a home it may not be so clear but she did after all you did everything you could to look out for her and her kittens. Is that not a home in and of itself?


----------



## Arianwen (Jun 3, 2012)

I am so sorry you reached this point but I am sure you did it from love and concern. I was really rooting for her - partly because her story wasn't that far removed from the story of my Sheba. A young cat, impregnated and probably infected at the same time and a good mother. I really wanted your baby to end up like mine. She and one of her sons (not FIV +) live happily in my tribe - we know she is carrying this problem but at present she is well, very loving (a lap seeking missile) and just a normal contented young cat. I was so hoping that your darling would turn the corner and be the same. My heart bleeds for you. Bless you for what you tried to do.


----------



## Jenny bf (Jul 13, 2013)

Oh I am so sorry. You did everything you could for her and have nothing to blame yourself for and by helping her with her kittens you have stopped that same sad cycle repeating with them. That is a gift to Terra


----------



## BotanyBlack (Apr 6, 2011)

I agree. You gave her as close to a home as you could. She trusted you enough to keep coming around and you did your best. ((Hugs)) It is a hard choice. 

Hopefully the males will be a bit easier to TNR. hopefully they will not be that sick and can be relocated to barns or something. I really hope you do not have a hoarder in your area. I would hate to think of so many animals exposed to this. 

A person can only do so much and you did more then most would even consider. For that you deserve some peace on all this. I am sure you made the best decision you could. The kittens have time yet to find homes. You could always ask any shelters if they do a courtesy y listing in your area and see if they will list your little ones for you.


----------



## Jet Green (Nov 28, 2005)

I'm so sorry to hear the news.  You went above and beyond for this kitty, and you truly did everything that could be done. You gave her love and care for the first time in her life, saved her kittens, and helped her to the bridge as gently as possible, and I know she appreciated it all. She's at peace now.


----------



## KeepingHope (Mar 14, 2015)

Thank you everyone. It was a HARD decision, and I deliberated over a lot. I spoke with the wonderful Techs and the Vet to make sure I was doing the right thing, and ultimately decided she was just too far gone for it to be fair of me to ask her to keep trying. She had an even worse URI than last time, that came on in less than two days, and was laboring to breath even while laying around. She was still eating, but not as much, and when I looked in her eyes all I was seeing was pain. I thought about it, and I don't have a single picture where her eyes look bright and happy....healthy, and I carefully considered both her best interest, and the best interest of the neighborhood cats. The vet told me my options were 1. Humanely euthanize, or 2. TRY to get rid of her infection and do surgery within a week and hope for the best, but also risk her spreading FIV to other outdoor cats, and likely have to bring her in 2x a month to make sure she was ok. It would be different if I could bring her in, or if there were no other cats outside, but she lived outside and was territorial. Risks of FIV would be so high for the other cats....I ultimately had to make the hard decision of letting her go. I did it that day to keep from having to re-stress her again, and they sedated her so that I could talk to her a little bit and stroke her before I let her cross the bridge. I told her I loved her, and I was sorry she hadn't found me sooner, but that I would finish raising her babies for her and keep them safe. I hope she could hear me and at least realize I was doing this hoping it was what she wanted, and that she was ready to go, but that I am so, so sorry if she wasn't ready.

But in my heart I know she was. When she started going downhill, she was going fast. A life of medical visits, needles, and car rides for a feral cat is no life. Her immune system had deteriorated too much to rebound, so it would have just been a story of ups and downs. After putting her to sleep the vet opened her mouth, and found huge lesions all over the roof of her mouth.

She was a brave fighter, and a trusting, beautiful animal who did more than I ever thought any feral was capable of. I've actually never been a huge cat person, but she changed that, and absolutely astounded me with her love for her babies. I let her see them one more time before they sedated her, so she knew they were still alive and doing ok. I hope she understood. 

Godspeed, Terra. Thank you for coming into my life. I knew you such a short time, but I grew to love and respect you, and you taught me a lot. Goodbye good cat <3


----------



## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

KeepingHope, 
What a wonderful eulogy for Terra...
You brought tears to my eyes...
I believe that some 'Angels' show up in animal form, to indeed 'teach' us something we need to learn...
(((HUGS))) and Blessings, 
Sharon


----------



## meggie (Mar 13, 2014)

You've shown so much strength and maturity through this whole process. I know a few college kids your age who are only worried about partying and instagram. It's nice know that there are some unselfish and caring young people with kind hearts out there. Good luck with the kittens. They're in good hands with you and I'm sure you'll do your best to find them loving homes.
((((((Hug)))))


----------



## NebraskaCat (Jan 15, 2013)

I've been following this post throughout the time, but this morning I went through and read it all again in one sitting. This is a remarkable and encouraging testimony to what we, as cat lovers, strive to do. To help those who are weak and sick, to find homes for those adoptable, to do what we can to reduce overpopulation, and to be with them when they transition to the bridge when their pain is too great.

Thank you, KeepingHope, for all your work and tears on their behalf. I hope you are rewarded with many kitty head-butts.


----------



## MsPepper (Mar 26, 2014)

R.I.P Terra
Good Luck on raising her kittens and finding them a good home


----------



## KeepingHope (Mar 14, 2015)

Thank you so much everyone.

Now I'm worried yet again. Two kittens are having bowel problems. I am feeding fairly thin KMR, and they drink just under 2 tbs each 4x a day. Kaitlyn, the Tortishell, is great. Skylar, the buff tabby, started showing signs of constipation two days ago, and Zane started showing the opposite problem- liquidy poo. I asked the vet that day and she said not to worry, but try a bit of Kayro in each milk feeding for Skylar until she went, and extra fortiflora for Zane. So I've been doing that. Skylar FINALLY passed some productive stuff today- a lot of semi-liquid (probably from the Kayro) and then a fairly hair piece which I'm pretty sure was the culprit. She's going ok now, so I think she's fine, but how do I prevent constipation? I've heard that's a common problem with KMR. I've let them have tiny tastes of canned patte, and they LOVE it, but I'm hesitant to put them on it fully because they're only 5 1/2 weeks old. 

But Zane is still having pretty bad diahhrea. It's been almost 48 hours. Should I try syringe feeding some pedialyte? Is it time to get him in to the vet? I called today and she was wishy washy about yes or no, so I'm conflicted. I'm worried he is going to lose weight or be dehydrated. 

I'm not sure why they're having so much trouble  they've been on KMR since they were a few days old. Only difference is they get no mama milk as of about 8 days ago since she was doing poorly and now has passed.

I'm especially worried because they don't really drink water yet. Their milk of course, is about 50% water, maybe a little more, but they only play in their water dish.


----------



## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

KeepingHope, 
(((HUGS))) and Prayers, that the kittens will be all right...
Sharon


----------



## KeepingHope (Mar 14, 2015)

I decided to slowly start adding a teeny bit of canned food in the milk to see if maybe they were just ready for that, and if it would help fix the poo problems. Knock on wood it does seem to be helping Zane's runs!

But now I have to take my big blind dog, Connor, to the vet, because apparently despite the Dawn baths 2x a week and flea combs, I'm not getting all of the fleas and he is VERY allergic. Steroid time! Poor baby  and he's allergic to the chemical flea treatments too. I'm going to get some Diatomaceous Earth to sprinkle all over the house to try and kill them all. Fleas in a house of 7 furbabies is noooot fun. It's one thing after another I swear!

I'll give updated pictures of the babies tomorrow


----------



## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

KeepingHope, 
I hope that does the trick! I really hope some of our seasoned fosterer's chime in here with some ideas, concerning kittens eating...
(((HUGS))) and Prayers! 
Sharon


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Nov 18, 2014)

Awww I hope things get better for you soon I know it can't be easy to deal with all this.


----------



## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

At 5 1/2 weeks go ahead and switch those babies! If they'll eat the canned they can definitely be on it. If you're concerned add some of the milk powder directly to the canned and mix it right in.

I started switching all the babies I ever had right around 5 weeks, they should take to it just fine. 

You've done so much for them, give those babies a cuddle to remind yourself why and think about the happy lives they'll have, safe and indoors, because of the hard work you've done and the tough choices you had to make. *hugs*


----------



## cat owner again (Dec 14, 2012)

Keeping Hope - This story of the your help to fight to keep these kitties alive is so moving and your concern and constant care is so evident. It says a lot about your character and the decent human being that you are.


----------



## KeepingHope (Mar 14, 2015)

Thanks guys. I admit it's tough sometimes, especially when I go in and see a giant mess that they've made (tiny bathroom + 3 kittens = GAHHHHH) after a long day at work or school, but they're such sweethearts and they really do look great. They're on half and half canned food + milk replacer and it seems to be helping them. Skylar still has a bit of trouble but it's not so bad.

But now they've decided they're NOT litter trained ( I swear they were! ) and they're peeing in the corner of the bathroom! I cleaned it with a urine deoderizer but they keep doing it. Little turds! lol. They're also constantly trying to climb up my legs to my shoulder when they're hungry which would be cute except they have sharrrrrrp claws. They don't listen to "NO" and tapping their nose or just removing them and I've gotten a few good gashes from them so I had to resort to a bit of sprayed water. Hate to do it but they need to be good feline citizens!

Otherwise they're fabulous. Just waiting til 8 weeks for their first shots and to finally get a flea treatment for them!


----------



## Arianwen (Jun 3, 2012)

Before that, you can get a good alcohol spray for fleas.


----------



## Faize (Apr 13, 2015)

I've hand-raised more than my fair share of kittens and at 5 1/2 weeks, solids (appropriately softened) are more than okay. Their mother (poor baby, RIP  ) would have been starting to wean them at about now anyway.

If you're worried about caloric intake, putting a bit of KMR on it (dry powder, or mixed in with warm water to mooshify the pate) should help boost it a little.

You're being an excellent surrogate mommy to the babies. 

If they're not using the litterbox yet, now is also a good time to show them that, and show them how much fun it is to dig in it. Your older cats may or may not help litter train them; when I got Samson, my female Tracer had him using the box within two days, and she's (as far as I know) never had a litter.

They're at the most adorable age right now ^.^


----------



## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

time for a new thread! :grin:


----------

