# Questions about breeding (Yuki)



## Deedlet (Dec 18, 2012)

Hi guys:

I came to this forum in early 2013 about my kitty Luna, regarding her hyperthyroidism problem. Sadly she passed away from it. But this forum was very helpful to me during the process and after a long wait, I finally got a new kitty. Well actually my husband got me the kitty for my birthday in Jan 2013. Her name is Yuki and she's a Balinese cat. She's now 7 months old.

When we got her (she was 3 months old at the time), we talked about it and decided not to spay her, at least immediately. As we were told that she was pure bread Balinese, we decided it would be a shame if she didn't at least have one or two litters. 

But I've never bred a cat before. I'm reading about it online and it seems like a pretty hefty/costly endeavour. And I really want to go through with it, but with summer just around the corner and her growing up so fast... I think it's time I learned all I can about it. 

Of course, the internet is full of info, but it's also scaring me a little because I'm inexperienced and I thought it would be nice to get some advice as to how to go about it. Or ask if you guys could point me to the right direction as to how to go about it.

I realize I should consult my vet and make sure she has a physical check-up before the mating starts. I'm actually planning on taking her to the vet tomorrow or the next day. But is there other things I should know? 

A lot of the things I read on the internet keeps telling me I should be spaying her, even after she's had a few litters. Is that true? Do I HAVE to spay her at some point? She's strictly an indoor cat and we're planning on finding her a male partner, when the time comes just for breeding purposes. And she hasn't gone into heat yet as far as I can tell. 

Any info and your experiences will be most helpful.
Thanks! Oh and here are a couple of pictures of her


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## MowMow (Nov 6, 2010)

Unless she's a papered purebred cat (bred to another papered cat of he own breed) and the cross will substantially improve the quality of her breed then she should be spayed.

To do otherwise increases the population of kittens in a very overpopulated feline world. Even if you find 'good' homes for her offspring you have no way of knowing the owners will not let their kittens breed at random and those kittens won't die starving and diseased in the streets.

Also keep in mid you do take the risk of losing your cat during this process.


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## Jenny bf (Jul 13, 2013)

Hi Deedlet, Yuki is beautiful. I have a pure breed British Shorthair called Kiki ( I have the paperwork as well). She is an unusual colouring for this breed as she is lilac and fawn. I chose not to breed her for a number of reasons, 1)as you have said it is costly and it can be dangerous 2) I would worry about who was taking the kittens, are they as loving as I am towards the cat and how do I know they are not taking to sell on again 3) As Mow Mow said there are many cats in shelters and that includes full breed like ours. If dumped these babies cannot survive as they have no instinct at all, plus with the fur like you Yuki they get into a terrible mess. 4)I have no experience with new born kittens and the issues that could arise from the birth or rejection from the mother. I also do not have time due to my job to look after a mom and kittens. 5) if any of the kittens was not "perfect" as in to the breed, would I be prepared to keep?
As for not having Yuki spayed ever, well that has many risks to her health as well as a female unspayed cat can be a nightmare to live with, they become noisy and can be difficult to live with, every 3 or so weeks. There is lots on the forum about reasons to spay. 
Of course it is your cat and your choice and I am sure you will have put in lots of time looking at the pros and cons for Yuki and her health and I am sure that you will get some great advice on how to breed, but I just wanted to flag to you my reasons for not going down that route, despite having the gorgeous Kiki who would have adorable kittens without a doubt


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

Have you looked at pictures of pure bred Balinese cats? Your cat looks nothing like them.


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## Carmel (Nov 23, 2010)

Deedlet said:


> But I've never bred a cat before.


Don't do it. You are not a breeder, you will not be breeding her to better the breed, and that is all a cat should ever be bred for... otherwise you're adding to the 50+ million cats that live on the street in America, and millions euthanaised yearly in shelters. Even if yours find a home, you displace others that may have been able to find a home otherwise.



Deedlet said:


> I'm reading about it online and it seems like a pretty hefty/costly endeavour.


It is. To breed properly you do not make money.



Deedlet said:


> I realize I should consult my vet and make sure she has a physical check-up before the mating starts. I'm actually planning on taking her to the vet tomorrow or the next day. But is there other things I should know?


Not just a physical check-up, you must do DNA testing on all known genetic conditions that could befall the breed and make sure before EACH breeding she had not developed those issues. You also cannot breed her until she's around a year and half to allow her to be fully grown. They only breed about once a year (and put up with the awful yowling the rest of the time) and spay after a few years. Otherwise cats become babies machines. Most breeders also show their cats, which is crucial to knowing if you have a breed standard cat and where it ranks, they also must breed for temperament. They also must be prepared to pay for 1,000+ dollar c-sections, the loss of their cat in pregnancy, or kittens with birth defects that may need to stay with you for life. A good breeder also takes back cats they have bred at any time of their life; they brought them into the world, they are responsible for them.



Deedlet said:


> A lot of the things I read on the internet keeps telling me I should be spaying her, even after she's had a few litters. Is that true? Do I HAVE to spay her at some point?


YES. To spay before the first heat cuts down on mammary cancer by around 95% or more. A cat gets spayed not just to prevent the needless kittens they will no doubt have, sometimes they will even have kittens on top of kittens -- before the last are weaned. Cats go into heat FREQUENTLY. When they do they are loud and try everything to escape the house. They make better house cats... you cannot live with a cat in heat, they are nuts. It is not fun for them either.

Are you aware the keeping an intact MALE cat is disastrous? Most breeders keep them segregated in their home from other cats. They spay, especially when they small a female in heat -- which they will smell if the cat is in the same house. Cat pee destroys a home... and smells awful in the process. After neutering a male that's started spraying, that does not always cure the habit of spraying.


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

Do you work? If so, what would be your plan if mama rejects the kittens and they need to be bottle fed, also manually stimulated to pee & poop? Every 2-3 hours...if there are several kittens by the time you finish the last one, the first one needs to be fed again. Can you provide full time care for them for 2-3 weeks?


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## Deedlet (Dec 18, 2012)

Thanks for your replies everyone. I think the consensus is pretty clear. I have some more thinking to do, because I think I want her to have at least one litter but will make my final decision after talking to the vet. 

And to answer your question about taking care of kittens doodlebug, no I don't work currently and keeping an eye on them won't be a problem. 

And in regards to her breed, that's what it says on paper. "Balinese" with "cream point" markings.


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## CatMonkeys (Sep 27, 2012)

Think about WHY you want her to have kittens- because they are cute? Because she has good genes and you want to better the breed? Exactly why do you think it would be a shame for her to not have kittens? Being pregnant is not an enjoyable process for a cat and it seems irresponsible to breed her just because she is a purebred. 

Also, if she is in heat and wants to get out, she absolutely will. There are plenty of threads on here about people with indoor cats who were in heat and determined to get out and got pregnant. What are you going to do if she gets pregnant from a stray male?

Please take the considerations people have listed here seriously- we all care about animals and want what's best for you and your cat. As an animal shelter volunteer, it breaks my heart to see people allowing their cats to get pregnant just because they think kittens are fun and cute- there are already so many cats and kittens in this world who need homes.


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## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

Regardless of what you decide (I'm on the side of 'spay her now', just to be clear) NO animal should be bred before maturity is reached. That means 2 years old...from experience: if you can keep her unspayed for two years, in order for her to reach maturity, WITHOUT going nuts or her peeing all over (which she will most likely do, fyi) then you can think about breeding.

Considering it now is like a 13-14 year old girl having a baby. Is it possible? Yep. Good idea? Nope. Theres health concerns (her body needs nutrients to grow, those would be siphoned off to kittens), is she mentally mature enough to raise them? (Theres a higher instance of abandonment/bad mothering in younger cats) and that's just to start.

Talking to your vet is a good idea, but you won't know what you're signing up for until after her first heat. Experiencing that thoroughly convinced me not to own an intact female.


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## zuma (Nov 5, 2009)

I've only ever experienced one cat in heat and I can tell you, it's not something I'd want to live with, not even one time. Apart from that, for me personally it would be out of the question because of the risk to my cat. There is lots of literature of health risk of un spayed cats and pregnancy itself can potentially be dangerous. To me that is an unnecessary risk to take and simply not worth it and to be honest a bit selfish. Why put a cat through that, it's not for her that's for sure. Not to mention that while kittens are adorable they are also a handful. 
I think cats should only be bred by breeders who work towards improving the breed, other than that there are more than enough cats and kittens looking for a home. Just because she's purebred is no reason to breed her. In fact I'm a little suspicious that you would even be allowed to. Most breeders are very specific that cats need to be spayed unless they're bought as show and potential breeding cats. 


Sent from Petguide.com App


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## TabbCatt (Mar 26, 2014)

Hi Deedlet-

I don't know anything about breeding cats, but this older thread seemed to have some good points to consider if you didn't know already:
http://www.catforum.com/forum/39-breeding/266425-persian-cat-breeding-info.html

It will be your decision to make of course, but it may also be a good idea if you consulted your breeder from whom you got Yuki, or other known breeders in your area if you're still interested. I think talking to them personally will help you most in what to prepare, and expect. They could also give you some personal guidelines, but I'd research the topic thoroughly as you're probably doing, as well as _their_ background and reputations, too. Good luck!


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## Mochas Mommy (Dec 9, 2013)

zuma said:


> Just because she's purebred is no reason to breed her. In fact I'm a little suspicious that you would even be allowed to. Most breeders are very specific that cats need to be spayed unless they're bought as show and potential breeding cats.
> Sent from Petguide.com App


Zuma is correct here. My husband and I are anxiously awaiting our new furbabies which are purebreds and purchased with full breeding and showing rights. These girls are top quality kittens that meet/exceed TICA standards and are offered as show/breeders to advance the quality of the breed. We had to pay almost 3 times the "going rate" for the breed, be registered with TICA, and will be mentored by a TICA breeder for this breed. It is NOT an easy endeavor. When (and if) our girls have litters and we offer them for sale, they must be sold with papers and a contract. Pet quality must be spay/neutered BEFORE a breeder will register the kitten for the buyer. Breeding a pet quality kitten is a violation of the contract and the kittens can NOT be sold as purebred EVEN if both parents are "technically purebreds". To breed our purebred cats when they are old enough, we have to do so to advance the standard AND have both parents tested for HCM, PkD, and several other genetic conditions. Those test results need to be available for anyone purchasing a kitten from us. 

If you have a purebred, it should have come with registered papers from the breeder AND a very specific contract regarding spay/neuter, breeding, etc. If you do not have these papers, your beautiful kitty is technically just a Domestic Short Hair. You will not be able to sell the babies as purebred Balinese kittens for purebred prices. 

I also agree with the posting that your kitty should be given the opportunity to reach majority age...at a minimum of 1.5 years...before you breed her. Let her be her healthiest...remember, you are the one who will be paying her vet bills if she has health issues later from breeding when she is still growing. 

Just something to think about....


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## MowMow (Nov 6, 2010)

Mocha, you went to a great breeder and they do their job well.

So many backyard breeder's don't go through the proper steps and it shows. They bring down the breed and give proper breeder's a bad name.


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

Deedlet said:


> And to answer your question about taking care of kittens doodlebug, no I don't work currently and keeping an eye on them won't be a problem.
> 
> And in regards to her breed, that's what it says on paper. "Balinese" with "cream point" markings.


Keeping an eye on kittens and bottle feeding a whole litter for weeks are two completely different things. 

Is the paperwork TICA or CFA registration papers or a purchase contract?


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## Speechie (Dec 2, 2013)

MowMow said:


> Mocha, you went to a great breeder and they do their job well.
> 
> So many backyard breeder's don't go through the proper steps and it shows. They bring down the breed and give proper breeder's a bad name.


I agree wholeheartedly! 
Good advice and insight, mocha!
My breeder friend who helped me to adopt Skye our ragdoll, she just lost 2 litters of kittens, a torsion of the uterus, I believe, and one other health issue that was life threatening. She wound up having the mental anguish of losing those precious babies, and having to spay her beloved ragdoll breeders. 
She does everything right, Spays the kittens before they go home, all of the genetic testing, rehoming former kittens as needed, (contract is signed saying any owner who can no longer take care of their purchased cat MUST notify her so they can help rehome or take the kitty back). I also have a printed out family tree for Skye with photos and names of his parents, grandparents, and prior generations. 
Breeding is not for the novice, and you need to be aware of the health consequences and potential for heartbreak. 
Just my 2 cents worth, because it seems like you love your kitty and are worried about the potential for complications...


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## Carmel (Nov 23, 2010)

It wouldn't be CFA, CFA does not accept anything but blue, seal, chocolate and lilac. The cream/reds are labelled as colorpoint cats in the CFA, not Balinese, since technically there is out-crossing somewhere to get that coloring. They are stricter than other registries in that regard and do not acknowledge such a color as a Balinese.


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

MowMow said:


> So many backyard breeder's don't go through the proper steps and it shows. They bring down the breed and give proper breeder's a bad name.


Yes...my parents neighbor was really upset when he heard I was getting a Maine ****. He had a friend that had two that both died of heart disease under the age of 5. So in this guy's mind "Maine Coons aren't healthy". I explained about the heart issues in MCs and how they are screened by good breeders...and that his friends cats had to have come from someone who was not doing their due diligence. But look at the damage that breeder did to the breed...first and foremost she produced sick cats, she created a very emotional situation for the cats owner and she created an image for the general public of an unhealthy cat breed that could have been perpetuated even further to me if I hadn't done my research. Breeding cats is not a casual pastime, not having a mentor and going at it half cocked can really cause a lot of unintentional damage. 

Mocha's Mommy...it sounds like you guys are really headed down the right path.


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

Carmel said:


> It wouldn't be CFA, CFA does not accept anything but blue, seal, chocolate and lilac. The cream/reds are labelled as colorpoint cats in the CFA, not Balinese, since technically there is out-crossing somewhere to get that coloring. They are stricter than other registries in that regard and do not acknowledge such a color as a Balinese.


Interesting...didn't know that. I just know that CFA & TICA are the two primary registries in the US, so the OP should have papers from one of them.


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