# Need Help w/Problematic Cat Introduction!



## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

Hello all,

This is my very first post on this Forum. I scanned a number of behavior threads over the past hour, was mightily impressed with the quality of information by the posters on this Forum, and so I just joined. I would be truly grateful for some insights, as I am also very frustrated, like the poster from mid-March who had a similar problem.

In a nutshell (as best I can), this is my problem: Had a cat for 18 years, it passed away 6 years ago, I decided this winter to get two rescue cats. I somehow ended up with three (long story, some other time) The third is a rare Havana Brown (predominantly), was near death and bleeding head to tail when rescued New Year's Day, I really wanted a Havana Brown, saw his story the day he was put up for adoption on Petfinder.com in Feb, and so now I have three rescues rather than two. The Havana is chocolate brown, named Hershey, male, 1-1/2 years. My problem is Snowball, female pure white DSH, one year old, brought into the house first by a week, in early February. She is exhibiting strong fear aggression. Second into the house was Blizzy, another pure white DSH, 8 months old, in late Feb, then Hershey. All neutered/spayed. So, two guys and a girl. The guys were in foster homes, said to be well-socialized, and indeed Hershey and Blizzy, after safe rooms for a week and a gradual intro, get along famously, after Hershey taught him how to wrestle right away.

Snowball had run of the house for only a week, but she started hissing as soon as she discovered Blizzy was in the house ( three weeks before Hershey arrived). Best I can tell, she exhibits fear aggression. I've got Cat vs. Cat and two other Pamela Johnson-Bennett cat behavior books, and I tried the gradual, sense by sense approach (but obviously not gradual enough!). Snowball started hissing whenever she and Blizzy were in sight of each other to eat, but she still felt comfortable enough to move about the house, since she would scare Blizzy away. I should mention that both Blizzy and Hershey are exceptionally sweet, have never gone after Snowball (except recently, Blizzy got tired of being hissed and swatted at), they stay a safe distance away. But once Hershey came into the house, Snowball retreated to my bedroom, her safe room, and now she hides much of the time. On advice, I bought an extra tall baby gate and just installed it this week, so Snowball can see the other two cats when I leave the door open. I've used Feliway (but didn't know about CL or RR, which I am now ordering from Amazon, so thanks to those who have mentioned it to others! Feliway has made no discernible difference.

Snowball was the only cat taken directly from a shelter (no foster), and so I didn't have her history, except she was a stray and turned out was four weeks pregnant when brought to be spayed. To me she seems like she was only a feral cat, in that I have had to teach her how to use various cat toys, and she is not yet comfortable with my touching her paws, etc. She is gorgeous, silky fur and one big yellow eye, one blue (and not deaf). 

But I feel things are going backwards, not forwards. I've got the baby gate, I've tried feeding them on either side of it, far away, and Snowball so far will run from her food dish (I think her fear gets the better of her). Everything I have read says to be gradual and patient, and I will be, for the next month or two anyway, as I don't want to give her up. But I despair of helping her overcome her fear of the other two cats. I don't know if I should just leave her food out there, until she gets so hungry she goes after it, or if it's better to let her eat privately, where she doesn't feel her meal is at risk (and it isn't. She has continued to eat normally until recently, wet and dry, and at first I was able to take her by carrier to eat side by side with the other two, but now she doesn't want to do that any more).

I'll stop here, but my dilemma is what I can do to help her overcome her fear, since neither Hershey nor Blizzy is aggressive except now with each other when playing together. Her life is much less interesting and confined, even with lots of toys and a cat perch, so I don't want her to start exhibiting any other behavior problems (none so far!!). I will try at some point to reintroduce her just to Hershey first, as he seems more sensitive to her feelings but also is the dominant cat over Blizzy, but it's too soon to try that and BLizzy will start digging up the carpet to get out if I put him in a room alone (he learned once that he was able to knock the bedroom door open by doing that, and that was that, he thinks with persistence he can do it again!).

Any advice would thus be greatly appreciated. Sorry for being so long-winded. The household is certainly challenging right now, to say the least! I am very concerned about Snowball and will only give her up to an only cat home if I truly have to. If you need any further info, please let me know! And thanks for listening (reading)! I bit off more than I could chew.


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## Jeckel (Aug 11, 2009)

I'm not the expert on this... though I'm sure the experts will show up soon.

In my opinion, you need to put Snowball in a room, by herself for a few weeks. She needs to forget about the other cats for a while and establish a room where she is completely at ease. After things have settled down and she's totally relaxed in that room, you can begin the introduction process again.

Also, the cat forum requires pictures in exchange for our assistance! (Please!?)


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## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

Thanks so much for the quick response. Actually, Snowball is still very comfortable in her safe room (my bedroom)--so long as the door is closed, and today sometimes even with it open, when the other two cats are not there. Tonight Hershey sat there quietly looking at her for about five minutes from the other side of the baby gate, and she was still fine, mainly because I was next to her, petting and soothing her. She is also comfortable elsewhere in the house, so long as the other cats can't roam free. 
As for pix, happy to oblige. Perhaps not surprising I have taken 70 in three weeks with my iPhone, but I need to upload them to my computer so I can send on a few.


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

I am a new member here too. I tried posting a message a little earlier, but it seems to have disappeared. :? If you end up with two responses from me, my apologies. I had a very similar problem last year, when I introduced my resident kitty, Muffs (then only 5 mths) to my new kitten, Abby (10 wks). Muffs was terrified of Abby, although there was no hissing. Instead, Muffs would run and hide, unless she felt really threatened, whereupon she would turn on Abby and a fight would ensue. After a long slow introduction that had taken almost a month we were getting nowhere. Long story short, I hired an animal behaviorist. I don't profess to be an expert. I can only tell you what I was told to do. I don't know whether it will or won't work in your case. Fortunately, it worked in my case.

First, keep them separated as you are with the baby gate. Put all food, water, and comfort objects (toys, etc.) within 2 ft of the gate on either side (or as close as possible otherwise). Have all “good things” in life happen within 2 ft of the barrier (all attention, wet and dry food, treats, catnip, playtime, cat grass, grooming, etc…) in each other’s company. Have at least 10 “events” (good things) happen each day. Switch the cats for one hour each evening. During this time, just let Snowball wander around freely and let the other two play/etc. in Snowball's room. They need not be by the gate during this time. Monitor their behavior. Once you start to see a reduction in reactivity -- Snowball no longer hissing or acting frightened, starting to interact through the gate (playing footsies, etc.), then conduct a supervised 10 minute play session each day with the three of them together in an open area. After the session, put Snowball back in her room and continue with "good things happening by the gate". Over time, gradually increase the length or number of the supervised play sessions where they're all together. 

I was quite skeptical that any of this would work, but after a week I started to see some improvement. After about 2 weeks, Muffs and Abby began to play footsies under the door (they were separated by a screen door) and they started to touch noses through the screen. I then started to allow them out together for short, supervised play sessions. It took another 3 weeks or so before they could be out together all day (with me still home to keep a general eye on them). It took another month before I left them alone together when I was at work. They are now best friends; they cuddle and groom each other. 

After he saw Muffs and Abby together at first, the behaviorist warned me that there was only a 50-50 chance of success (that Muffs might be better off in a single-cat home). So, mine was a success story and/or I got lucky! As I said above, I don't know if this will work for you. But, whether you try this or something else, I hope you have the same good luck.


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## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

Susan,

Brilliant (as the Brits say, or at least some of them)! And I know the message problem--I just spent 10 minutes composing a response to you, saved it, and now I can't find the saved message. In short, I will definitely try what you and the behaviorist suggest, esp. the "good things near gate" and exchanging positions each day. One complication is I have 3 cats, and so when it gets to supervised play, if it does, Pamela J-B suggests trying one new cat at a time. One reason I think Snowball was entirely feral is that she is really learning even how to play. First time I showed her Da Bird, she tried to pluck the feathers and eat it. First time I gave her a furry mouse, she ripped off the tail in 5 seconds and then tried to bite its head off. This sweetheart with the big yellow eye and blue eye, who gives me nose and chin kisses. And she also has been trying to hide her food, by pulling a bathmat over the dish, a behavior another thread has mentioned can be attributable to instinct or disliking the food--in my case, she eats most of the food, then does this.

Anyway, I'll definitely try what you mentioned.

And now, let me see if my joining Photobucket has allowed me to link in pictures of the three cats, Snowball, Blizzy (pure white except for a little gray "toupee", and Hershey, by providing a URL.

http://s1016.photobucket.com/albums/af2 ... My%20Cats/


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## Mitts & Tess (Sep 4, 2004)

If your going to give Composure Liquid do it twice a day. I give 1 ml each dosage. If you combine with Spirit Essence..put it on between the shoulder blades-you can apply this to the cats skin. Weve had excellent results with Spirit Essence too.

My friend uses Spirit Essence over Bach. Weve not had good results with Bach. She tried both extensively to compare results.

She also has a screened door which helps too. 

Snowball sounds like shes from a feral mom. Strong feral genes coarsing thru her. She sounds like a beauty. Susan had some good ideas too! YOu sound like a good cat dad!


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

Hi NewRescue Dad: First, your "new rescues" are lovely and very lucky to have found a caring new family. After I posted, I thought about the problems you might have with 3 cats. And doing it one cat at a time makes sense. I chuckled when I read what Snowball did to Da Bird and toy mice. Oh my...you are going to be frequenting the pet store  I also used a product called Bio-Calm to deal with stress, which is something put in the cat's food. It's not a prescription drug, but an herbal-type remedy, although it can only be obtained from your vet. It is used when dealing with very stressful situations, such as airplane trips, surgery, etc...so it works quite quickly (unlike Feliway, which works, but can take a while). My vet recommended Bio-Calm for Muffs because she was so stressed after Abby's arrival. I'm not sure where you live (UK, perhaps, given your comment about Brits!)...so, I don't know if Bio-Calm would be available where you are. I am originally from the UK (many years back) but now live in Canada. I know Bio-Calm is available in North America. Perhaps check with your vet. Good luck. Susan


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## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

Thanks, Mitts and Tess, and Susan again. I'm already sold on the Cat Forum based on the quick and helpful responses so far. And it's fun, too! I will try the herbal remedy after CL and RR, if I need to, as I like to use those remedies, and drugs, only as a last resort. 

Susan, two things. First, I'm from the Washington, DC area--though I've traveled to London a lot and in the past few years have been going to Vancouver and Toronto (Vancouver's now one of my favorite places in the world). Second, thanks to my new cats I have placed 45 (!) separate orders with Amazon.com the past two months . Everything from cat toys with high ratings to a cat carrier, cat beds, the baby gate, and even Wellness and Weruva cat food, which with free shipping is the cheapest around. The furry mice are great, as they come in packages of 12 and so a new one can be popped out as others disintegrate or disappear under the refrigerator. Snowball has learned these are not edibles--but interestingly (to me, anyway), while she instinctively crouches in the hunt and pounce position, she now makes one quick pass at the toy, whatever it is, and then runs by it. Maybe because she knows it's not the real thing. She was good at squashing a small spider in her room the other day! My other two cats bat these furry mice around like crazy. But she's learning. I showed her how to push the Turbo Scratcher ball around the track. She watched me, finally gave the ball one hesitating push herself and no more. Five minutes later, one more push. Then at midnight, with the lights out, one or two more pushes. No more than that. I think she needs to learn how these things can give her pleasure! By the way, I found that the Cat Dancer is the one interactive toy she consistently cannot resist and bounces around over--though even that does not distract her from staring at Blizzy when she's in a hissing mood. I bought a laser toy, she liked it too, as did Blizzy, but I quickly stopped using it. It actually seems cruel to me, since the cats can never get the satisfaction of getting ahold of anything. I guess that's another thread, but to me the laser seems a good way to drive your cat crazy. Anyway, today I start with the "good things close" and "let's switch places" regimen.


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

I am in Toronto and I have been looking high and low for Weruva cat food. I never thought to try Amazon. Thanks for the tip. My two also love Cat Dancer. I think I read about it in one of my various books. Squashing spiders...my, my...Snowball will keep the house bug free  My Muffs is so timid that when she sees a spider or a lady bug, she looks at it, walks all around it, sniffs it, sort of gently touches it, and is absolutely fascinated by it, but doesn't seem to know how to squash it. If she had to catch her supper, she would starve.


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## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

On Weruva and Amazon, I typically get the cases of 24 of 5.5 ounce cans. It goes on and off free shipping (at least in the US), and also the price goes up and down. For instance, I just got cases of 24 of both Chicken Soup (Funky Chunky) and Nine Livers (Chicken and Liver) for US 32.62 with free shipping. Within a day, the Nine Livers went up, to $35.50 and then $39, and then free shipping for it disappeared and it sold out. So pick your flavors and watch the site, as they rotate which ones get free shipping. FYI, Wellness Chicken and other flavors also sell with free shipping in the US, 5.5 ounce and the 13 ounce cans. Don't know about Canada.

As for bugs, it's spring and the annual "ants marching" has started in the kitchen. Unfortunately, so far I seem to be the only one who cares to kill them. My previous cat loved to roll over on them and collect "ant smell". Hershey and Blizzy, who can hear me open a cat food bag or can or a cat treat bag a mile away and who seem to see EVERYTHING that goes on, are oblivious or pacifists when it comes to ants, even by their bowls.


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## Mitts & Tess (Sep 4, 2004)

Composure Liquid is all natural. One of my cats went balistic after surgery to have her infected, atrophied, (with genetic defects) eyes removed. She would turn into a wild, feral, whirling dirvish when we had to medicate her 3 times a day. I wanted to put her on prozac because I was at my wits end on how to handle her.

My vet didnt want to take that route. She wanted to do something natural - she strongly recommended CL. I didnt beleive it would work on such an exteme case since it was "natural" but she made a beleiver out of me! I get immediate results everytime I use it now. This is not a medication. Its like taking a B vitamin. So I hope you can find a little comfort in that. You cant over medicatd on Composure. Im not a big fan of pharmacticals either. Id always would rather do it thru nutrician or natural remedies.


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## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

Much appreciated, great to know it is natural. I'm going over to Amazon right after this to place my order; it can't get here fast enough! (That and RR.) Besides, I haven't ordered anything cat-related from Amazon for a good four days now!


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## OctoberinMaine (Sep 12, 2006)

NewRescueDad said:


> As for bugs, it's spring and the annual "ants marching" has started in the kitchen.


As a fellow Washington, DC area person, may I say -- I KNOW! Every April like clockwork. We've put Murphy's food bowls up on the dining room table instead of on the floor, and that seems to have helped. My only other thought was to just _give it to them_......put a dab of cat food near the spot they come in, and let them go hog wild. At least that might keep them from venturing any further.


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## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

Thanks. I don't say LOL very often, but LOL. I don't dare "just let them have it". Years ago, when I had my previous outdoor/indoor cat I came back from a several-day business trip in April and COULD NOT BELIEVE how many ants had been told there was a party, open buffet, going on in my kitchen. Not exaggerating, I think I killed about 350 of them the first hour, another 200 later that evening, and I sprayed all over the outside of the house. Looking outside, I saw a veritable caravan of ants, coming and going, from the sidewalk up a side brick wall and through a crack into my house. I have found tracing the path back to their entry point, then spraying outside, does the trick sooner or later. 

A month ago Blizzy arrived, and I put him in the spare upstairs bedroom that had been unused for 20 years. Within three days, I had ants all over his food bowl--I traced them back over 10 feet of carpet into a closet adjacent to an outside wall. I think our townhouses must be built over a network of anthills. Someday our homes will sink a foot, as all the ant tunnels underneath and surrounding the houses collapse in Antegeddon.

Well, I've now got Rescue Remedy and have ordered Compassion Liquid from Amazon. I had wanted to use CL first but don't want to wait until next week, so I think I'll start with RR tonight. I take it one should use one or the other, not both, so I'll switch to CL once it arrives. If that's not right, I hope someone will kindly let me know. Thanks.


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

Yes...you're right. You should only use one at a time...although I've often thought a better technique would be to use both: one for the cats and one for me!! We humans also need a Rescue Remedy at times.


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## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

Wow, my second LOL today! And I can use it. Snowball, whose feralness (ferality? feralousness? feralosity?)--whose skittishness had not heretofore claimed me as a victim, got me a short while ago. Started petting her, at her instigation, I bent my head down towards hers (she gives me nose kisses, but not this time) and wham!, a claw swipe between my nose and upper lip, took 10 minutes to staunch the bleeding in two places. Just one swipe, over in a flash, and she just sat there quietly. I think little Snowball is a cross between Eliza Doolittle and Glenn Close, and I don't know how long I'm up for playing Henry Higgins in Catmalion. For one thing, Eliza D didn't need herbal remedies to improve her disposition. It's on to dinner, RR and then switching places. Let's see what that brings.


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

Ouch!! Although Eliza didn't need herbal remedies, I suspect RR will work better on Snowball than would The Rain in Spain... Sounds like sometime between dinner and the switch, you need to squeeze in a claw trim. I wish you luck with the switch. Before Muffin was comfortable with Abby, she would take it upon herself to attack my leg and bite. I suspect she felt it was my just reward for allowing a new furball on the premises. Hard to imagine such a sweet looking thing could pack a punch. I've tried to attach pics of my two below. Hope it works (I'm new to this photobucket thing).


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## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

Ok, my last post for now. Your pix are great--two little angels. I'll have to figure out how to do that. And on nail trimming, yes, that occurred to me. Just debating if I want to put on an overcoat and heavy gloves and give it a try. I only had partial success the one time I tried, but if RR works quickly, then maybe I'll give it a go....


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## ChelleBelle (Sep 14, 2009)

I can't comment to much on the introduction, because I'm going through a rather long one myself (over 4 months of babygates! Ugh!). But, you can use RR and CL combined. I have gotten better results with one cat. The aggressor, my resident cat, gets CL and RR both, the kitten because of her timid nature only gets RR. RR calmed the aggressor down enough to be "polite" to our family. She use to scratch/bite on whim, but once it was suggested for me to use play therapy and the combo of CL/RR the difference was remarkable. She has not bit or scratched anyone since I combined the two.

Brandy, my aggressor, is a very dominating personality, and is SLOWLY accepting Bella, my kitten. The switching them between the gates is helping a lot. Instead of an hour, I am doing 12 hours in, and 12 hours out. Basically, I have to force my resident/aggressor cat to ACCEPT the kitten in her territory. I am not sure if it'll work. And I have a feeling I'm in for the long haul here. But, since giving up neither cat is an option, and I don't want to live my life with them separated the next couple years. We are doing everything in the book suggestion wise to get them to like each other. Though, Susan did give a good idea, about all positive reinforcement happens in front of the gate. I didn't think of that one.

'Chelle


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## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

ChelleBelle, sorry your experience is taking that kind of time, but I've heard it happens. It's helpful to share these experiences for mutual support, because it's not easy, in my opinion. 

OK, I'll spare you details, but Day One with RR was different, maybe even modest progress. I didn't like that Snowball on RR seemed not just mellow, but semi-catatonic, but I guess that's what RR does. OTOH, she barely hissed at Blizzy or Hershey and actually stayed close to the baby gate some of the time with them present and without her ears pinned back. That's a first. The hour exchange of places was 30 minutes, most of which Snowball spent inside her carrier by choice, from which she emerged for a short period to explore a room she used to know and then retreated back into. OK, it's a first try, so I didn't push anything. The hardest part, actually, is that Hershey the Havana is a Dominant Cat and can't stand being on the other side of the gate from me or watching me play with anything with Snowball--he wants in on the action. He starts crying like a baby (it's the Siamese in the Havana Brown). But I can deal with that. Blizzy is fine, he just starts playing with Snowball's toys and has a grand time. But Hershey doesn't like "confinement". When he's on my side, when not playing he just sits quietly and looks, non-threateningly, at Snowball. Even though he's a dominator, I'm counting on him to win her over because he's sensitive to her and Blizzy's feelings, and also mine, I'm convinced, except where food is concerned. 
(I was able to link to Photomount but cannot figure out how to upload a picture onto this reply.)


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

Well it sounds like the first exchange went as well as might be expected. My sitation was a little different, since Abby was the one locked up all day...and she was just a normal, happy little kitten. So when I let her out to explore the rest of the house, she was soooo excited. She ran around, sniffing everything, as if to say I'm Free At Last. My problem was getting her back in. :? On the other hand, poor Muffin just sat by the gate waiting for me to let her out. She never cried, although she's an extremely quiet cat. She has only meowed about 5 times in the entire year that she's been with me. Thankfully, after a few days, Muffin started to get more comfortable and would play with Abby's toys or sit on the windowsill to look outside. So, hopefully, Blizzy will also get more comfortable over time. Let's hope Blizzy can win Snowball over. I think I read in Pamela JB's book that the trick is to obtain peace with the alpha cat (which sounds like Blizzy). 

To post pictures, I go to Photobucket, select the picture I want, right click and select "Properties". The Properties screen contains the URL address. Highlight and copy the address. Then come back here and select the "Img" button on the top of the "Post a reply" screen. It will insert "" and your cursor will be automatically placed in the middle. Then, paste (ctrl-p) the URL address in the middle, where the cursor is. You will then have a lengthy address, but when you submit, the address will be translated into a picture.


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## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

Brilliant again! (I have a limited vocabulary.) I have wanted to post images when I post, now I will. Not that it matters, but it's Hershey, the larger than life Havana, who thinks he's King of the Universe. Blizzy is his new sidekick. Funny what one dose of RR does. This morning, with it obviously worn off, Snowball not only stayed in plain view of the other two cats, she hissed and charged at Hershey at the gate. In the past, she would hissed and run away. Will try RR again late today, and after it takes effect will attempt a nail trim. Who needs bungee jumping or going on safari to get an adrenalin rush, when you can get it in the comfort of your own home.

OK, three images I'm attempting to paste, first of Blizzy, second of Snowball in happier times, when she was in her cat condo (and looks like a rabbit to me), and Hershey, King of the Universe.


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## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

Whoops. The images came through, but they are HUGE. Now need to figure out how to make them smaller, Alice in Wonderland pills Susan, anyone? And why don't I have my camera handy when the two guys are striking a wonderful pose together, as they are right now>? I guess that's the real bane of every cat owner's existence!


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## Mitts & Tess (Sep 4, 2004)

I wouldnt hesitate to use both together. Usually I first start out with CL. I laughed when you called it Compassion Liquid. :lol: Mostly I use CL but one of my friends uses a lot of the Spirit Essence at her house and has great results. They have different ones for different issues. She has 9 cats- some fosters. They all have medical and emotional issues. 

http://www.spiritessence.com/?action=product&act=list&cat=species&val=cats

Your cats are beautiful!

I use flickr.com. They give you the one click option of choosing which size you want. Im a techno ninny to they have it dumbed down for people like me. Makes it easy.


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

Well, now it's my turn to LOL (a phrase I also rarely use), but I certainly did LOL at your comparison of raising to kitties to bungee jumping :lol: Although, you're right. Cats bring you hours of entertainment, in varied forms. On the plus side, thus far, my kitties haven't done anything that might cause me to have a heart attack (not sure I can say the same for bungee jumping). 

I can now see who is the Alpha cat: Hershey for sure. Just look at that "I Rule" pose...whereas Blizzy looks like a little angel. As for Snowball, are those blue eyes that I see -- or is it just the lighting? She is certainly adorable...athough perhaps not when she's hissing and rushing at the gate. 

Moving on to sizing pictures, if you're using Photobucket, you double-click the picture, and you and the picture will be taken to a new screen. You will see a "resize" option. There will be various choices (small, medium, other). I usually select "other", whereupon you and your pic will be taken to yet another screen and you can adjust to the size you want. You can then resave, either as a new pic or by replacing the original, as you wish. 

How goes feeding/playing by the gate?


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## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

*[PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP-1``````````````````````*

Ah, resizing option--I somehow missed that, just right-clicked right away to get URL. Will try that next time I've got a pic to upload. And I will try to figure out how to get a pic on the left-hand author column first on my own, before calling for help again.

Alpha cat, indeed. I know we all think our cats are wonderful, but Hershey has amazed me from the get-go, not just his story of survival from near death, but how he combines such energy with lap friendliness, need for affection yet sensitivity to the feelings of others. He's as dog-like a cat as I've ever seen, while still clearly being a cat. Blizzy has a little cold right now and was just hacking a little bit. Hershey goes right over to him after he's done and touches his nose against his. For me, a real "awwww" moment.

And let me tell you about Blizzy the little "angel", who has a choir boy look and who only meows at mealtime and never otherwise. Yeah, the choir boy who smokes behind the schoolhouse, maybe! Blizzy is the guy who rifled through an entire box filled with Icky-Poo bottles, Feliway and other cat paraphernalia to find a NEVER OPENED cat treats packet at the very bottom I'd forgotten about, pulled it out, ripped it open, and devoured almost the entire packet! Reminds me of an old New Yorker cartoon where one dog turns to another and says, "Well, if they didn't want me to use The New York Times, they shouldn't have left it on the floor." While in his safe room intro week, Blizzy was able, once, to knock open the bedroom door that I had not securely locked, by pulling at the carpet under the door. Doesn't matter that it only worked once. Now, no carpet is safe if I put him behind a locked door, he thinks if he pulls up the carpet long enough, the door will open. He's as smart as all get-out, that little angel.

Snowball has one blue eye, the other is yellow! Unusual but not unique among pure white cats, I've learned. Blue-eyed white cats are often deaf in the ear(s) corresponding to the blue eye(s), but she's not. When I went, catless, to the local shelter to look at a Russian Blue, the woman in charge of the cat room said, "have you ever considered an all white cat?" "No," I said. "Come look at this one," she said, "she has one big blue eye, one yellow, and she's gorgeous." I did, she was, and she had me at hello. I was honestly smitten. And she purred and purred in my lap. Also, she was quiet around the other cats. So it never occurred to me that this sweetheart of a cat wasn't socialized. Live and learn. I bonded with her first, or else I wouldn't necessarily have gone to the trouble of baby gate, CL and RR, etc. to keep her in the household, I would have just helped her find a cat-free home, because Hershey and Blizzy are a breeze. Still might, but not without fighting for her to make it here.

Will report on Day 2 of RR and feeding late tonight.


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

Ah...Snowball has heterochromia. Had she been a "he", you could have called her Jack Bauer or Alexander the Great. It is unusual for a feral to be as sociable as you describe at first meeting. Let's hope things work out for her with Blizzy and Hershey. I like Blizzy!! He sounds like a real handful. My daughter was living and working in the UK, but came back to Canada for a year and stayed with me for a few weeks until she found her own place earlier this year. She has a cat, Neko, who reminds me of Blizzy. Since she was only going to be staying for a few weeks, we decided to keep Neko separated from Muffin and Abby...I was NOT about to go through the baby gate routine a second time. Once was quite enough. So, we kept Neko in her bedroom. Yet, all of a sudden Neko appeared in the family room. My daugher swore up and down that she hadn't let him out. The next day, she was lying in bed and she saw how he did it. The little monkey stretched up to the door handle (the doors have handles, rather than knobs), pulled the handle down, and walked backwards on his two hind legs while holding the handle down. Then he got down on the floor and used his nose to open the door the rest of the way...and off he trotted. And they call cats "dumb animals". Regretably for Neko, the bedroom door had a lock, which we then started to use. So, his roaming days came to an abrupt end. 

Both of my two sound like Hershey, since they're very dog like. They follow me around from room to room. I can't go anywhere without my little entourage in tow. Abby is a little lapcat, always wanting to cuddle. She doesn't like it when I sit in my chair with my computer on my lap, because my lap is HER spot. She jumps up on the arm of my chair, surveys the situation, and finds a way to squeeze her way in, generally with her tail positioned directly in front of my face. Makes for slow going on the laptop. 

I hope Blizzy is feeling better soon and that tonight shows a bit of improvement over last night.


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## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

Mitts and Tess--thanks, I have noted Spirit Essence. I will first try CL and RR, as I have one and ordered the other, but I will keep it in mind if I'm not getting results with these two. And my calling it Compassion Liquid was just wishful thinking.

Susan, Muffin and Abby sound great, but I, too, have to admire Neko. I don't know if Blizzy might have figured out the handle himself--I also have a door handle--but he's too short to reach it. I would tend to think Neko is in a class by himself. I had a real good laugh at Neko's ingenuity!

Day 2 of RR: This will get old quickly, if it hasn't already, for folks to read. So highlights/lowlights: Started off poorly. I had given Snowball four drops last night, thought it might be too much, since that is a human dose, so did three drops tonight. Waited 30 minutes, Snowball became even more affectionate, so thought I'd try a nail trim. Not THAT affectionate. Was just slicing off the very end of the first sharp nail, when she jerked her paw violently, and I got a whole exterior nail sheath. Decided to wait for tomorrow for nail trim. Good news is she and the two guys are eating within four feet of each other without incident, meaning she is back to being comfortable eating in their immediate presence. 

Exchanging places: Started poorly. In her carrier, she hissed violently at Blizzy as they passed by. She spent 15 minutes in her open carrier in the hallway, would not come out even with house freedom beckoning. So I took her down to the kitchen (bedrooms are upstairs, this is a townhouse). As expected, maybe, she went in and out of carrier several times, constantly expecting the guys to show up (she doesn't seem as quick on the uptake as the two guys, generally, but let's chalk this up to understandable nerves. Great news is I made dinner for myself, and she joined me on my lap as I ate, just as she did a few weeks ago. Purring up a storm as she did so, so this gave her as much pleasure as she's had recently. And she doesn't try to steal my dinner, unlike Hershey. She then was bold enough to explore what had been Hershey's safe room. She does so very cautiously, took her 10 minutes to sniff out what Hershey does in 1 and Blizzy in 2. By then she'd had enough and went back to her carrier. Blizzy came right up to her in the carrier as we exchanged places again, and she gave him a good, strong hiss--the usual. In fact, Snowball has taught me that "hissy fit" is not just an expression. As for Da BIrd, I knew the guys would find ways to amuse themselves. I had forgotten that I had hidden Da Bird on an upper shelf in a closet--and it was in the middle of the bedroom floor, wand and all, when I returned with Snowball. How did it get there? Could have been either guy, but since Hershey dragged a Cat Dancer Charmer halfway through the house and up the stairs, wand and all, the other day, and he's the Alpha, my vote goes to him.

Back in their respective places, Snowball did sit in open view four feet away, watching me play with Hershey. They both have Cat Dancer charmer, though Snowball is still a very recalcitrant player in general, most times doesn't get much pleasure from any toy for long. When I switched to her side, she moved further away, but she does not take her eyes off of Hershey, who sits right by the gate, silently. She has rarely hissed at him, and not at all since babygate started. So, all in all, steps forward and back. She was out for over an hour tonight, though spent almost half the time in her carrier. It's going to be very hard to spend this much time or more each evening doing this, but I simply will have to do it the next 10 days or so to see if enough progress is being made, then will reassess. 

And as to whether Snowball was feral or not, you make a good point. I should not sound as if I knew she was, since there is no record other than her having been picked up as a stray. She was over three weeks pregnant when picked up, so she likely was in the wild for a while. If she lived with humans, I would guess it was a pretty sterile experience, since she hardly recognizes any toys, didn't recognize several types of scratching posts or pads at first, doesn't really play much, doesn't want to be picked up or her paws touched, and even her nose and chin bumps appear designed to get me to go give her more food, not just signs of affection. I think the purring at the shelter was because she had only been there four days when I arrived, and I've read purring is a calming mechanism for cats, not just a sign of contentment. My guess now is she was nervous, since she didn't know what might happen next to her. 

I truly believe she is a nice cat, not intentionally mean or vicious, really more Eliza Doolittle than Glenn Close. I want to give her enough self-confidence to survive, thrive in this household. And by the way, she has this incredibly silky smooth fur, in addition to her beautiful eyes, which is why I fell for her. So, tomorrow is another day....


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

Don’t worry about your tales growing old. I remember how frustrating the integration was. I would e-mail my daughter daily to tell her of my progress (or lack thereof), in part because she was a great source of encouragement, and in part because it was a nice change to talk to a living being with opposable thumbs. Needless to say, her good grasp of the English language was also a definite plus. So, talk away. Both I and others here are happy to listen. 

The fact that Snowball has started to eat within four feet of the young gentlemen is indeed good news. Let’s hope they’re soon ready for their first un-chaperoned date. It’s also a positive sign that Snowball is exploring around a bit. Her apprehension about the guys appearing on the scene at any moment no doubt arises because she can smell them. Because you and I are olfactorily challenged, we often forget that smell is far more important than sight. In fact, part of the reason for the room exchange, as you’ve no doubt surmised, is to mingle the scents of the cats to create a communal or family scent, which (apparently) starts to make them feel more comfortable with each other. It’s no longer His, Theirs or Mine…it Ours. Also, hissy fits are normal and are typically a warning from a fearful cat. It’s only when the hissing turns to spitting that you need to ensure you have a good medical plan and your tetanus shots are up to date.

Hershey and Blizzy seem like they’re doing well in the room exchange, and helping to create more of that communal scent. I wouldn’t be so quick as to assume Hershey was the one to drag Da Bird out of the closet. As I recall, it was Blizzy who dug through the box to get the cat treats. So he’s the one with the prior criminal record, and the jury’s still out as to which of the two should be charged with the crime.

I know exactly how you feel when you talk about how much time you’re spending each night with the integration. In my case, Abby lived in my dining room, which has two entrances. I could not find a baby gate high enough for Abby not to be able to climb or jump (and she wanted OUT). So, I temporarily fastened window screens over the one entrance, and I came and went via the other. I would first interest Muffin in a game, usually Undercover Mouse (a battery operated toy that she loves). While she was distracted, I would run around to the other door, go into the dining room and play with Abby. Muffin alternated between chasing the mouse and watching me play with Abby. After 5 minutes, I would turn on Abby’s Undercover Mouse, and while Abby was distracted, I would run out Door #2 to the other side and play with Muffin. Back and forth I went, as if auditioning for an I Love Lucy skit -- 30 minutes in the morning, another 30 when I got home from work, and again later in the evening. All that to have “good things by the gate”. Between the play sessions and the room exchange each night, my evenings revolved around the cats, the cats and only the cats. I went to work for a much-needed rest. Like you, I said to myself I would give it two weeks and then re-assess. 

Fortunately, by the end of two weeks, they were playing footsies under the screen and were touching noses through the screen; there was no more hissing, growling or posturing; and Muffin was totally calm sitting on one side of screen with Abby right beside her on the other side. It was only uphill from there. Let’s hope you get to that stage too, because Snowball sounds like a keeper. If you don’t, then at least you’ll know you gave it the old college try, which is more than many in your shoes would do. 

I involved a behaviorist about 6 weeks after trying to introduce Muffin and Abby on my own and getting nowhere. At that time, they couldn’t be in a room together for so much as 30 seconds without fighting. The picture below was taken two months after I started the “program” (a little before Christmas). Not to worry, the entire two-month period between constant fighting and peaceful co-existence was not a nightmare…only the first two weeks. When I came into the room and saw the scene below, I got a lump in my throat. I first grabbed the camera, and I then grabbed a Kleenex to dry my eyes. Here’s hoping you have the same happy ending.


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## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

It's incredibly helpful that you went through a similar experience and are so willing to share it with me. I also appreciate the support system this provides. I got several good laughs from your latest post, particularly since last night I alternated between playing Cat Charmer with Snowball, with Hershey and to a lesser extent Blizzy eagerly watching right by the gate, and with H & B, with Snowball passively observing from afar (but at least observing!).

Footsies is my near-term goal. I'd love to see even a modest step in that direction from Snowball. It certainly already exists for the other two, despite the hissing. Always has, it's just their nature. So far not a shred of jealousy--or any interest whatsoever, evident from Snowball.

On the exchange, I had realized the importance of their getting used to each other's smells, and I could see Snowball's interest in sniffing everything around her in the rooms where she used to roam, now that they have Hershey and Blizzy scent all over them. But the central notion of communal scent had not occurred to me. It makes perfect sense now that you mentioned it, including Snowball's coming to realize even the bedroom is not "hers' alone. So I am learning a lot from these exchanges. And I haven't even had to pay a behaviorist myself--yet! 

And your story, if not inspiring in the same sense that The Blind Side is inspiring, is a real testament to commitment, persistence and caring against the odds (to me, 50:50 is close enough). You got a wonderful payoff that you earned--that picture is spectacular, I actually prefer it personally to the one you are using on your posts, both because it is precious in its own right and because of what it represents. 

Last point for now--on the time element, I have a different problem. I just retired early a few months ago from an organization I was with for 25-1/2 years, telling everyone I needed the first sabbatical of my career, lasting between 3-6 months (now it will be 6-12 months) after working non-stop for 33 years. I see former colleagues periodically, and they ask me things like, "So, how are you coming with your book idea? How are you spending your time?" "Well," I reply, "you see, I've got these three cats now, and one of them doesn't get along with the other two, so I've bought a baby gate and other things...." (Watch former colleague pull out BlackBerry, check on email.) Needless to say, they think I've gone off the deep end and can't believe this is now I am spending so much of my time at the moment. Neither can I, but then again, most of us don't get into these situations (cats not getting along) by choice. Am I now emotionally committed to all three kitties. You bet. What else could make me do these things that I would never want to have shown on You Tube!!

Time for mid-day snack from everyone. Footsies is my goal!


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## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

It's fascinating--everyone within a few feet of the gate, Snowball doesn't want to play, but when I play with Hershey and Blizzy, she settles down, to the side but in plain view, and just watches, motionless but eyes wide open. I swear she's Eliza Doolittle-cat, just needs to learn how to behave!


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

First, to respond to your last post about all being within a few of the gate. That’s TERIFFIC!! Snowball’s reaction sounds very much like Muffin’s in the early going. When I was on Abby’s side, Muffin played for a few seconds on and off, but spent most of her time sitting and watching. Thinking back, I do recall one toy in which I was able to interest both – the laser light. I would shine it on Muffin’s side (a few feet away from the screen), and she would chase it. I would then shine it on Abby’s side (with no need for me to switch sides). I then tried to draw them a little bit closer to the screen and each other, until I was shining the light on the floor directly under the screen. Sometimes Muffin would forget herself and go right up to the screen beside Abby to chase the light – although, sometimes she would hesitate and stop chasing when the light got to close to the screen, whereupon I would back it up a bit. I always followed this game with a treat for both, so at least they caught something at the end. Treats were fed close to the screen, since Muffs is very treat-motivated, and she tended to forget her fear when treats were on the scene.

Turning to your earlier post, I must say you don’t take the easy route, as might have been the case had your retirement plans comprised golf, travel or mastering the piano. I, too, never thought I’d find myself dealing with kittens. As my children were growing up, they would nag me for a cat or a dog. I travelled a lot on business then, so I held firm. No pets. My daughter is to blame for my current kitten-mom status, because she first adopted the by-now-infamous Neko. Every day she would e-mail or call with Neko stories…which ultimately led to Muffin, and a few months later, Abby. 

When I read your responses, I find it uncanny as to how similar our situations are. Although I’m a good 10 years away from retirement, I too had to learn how to deal with professional colleagues. When asked a simple question such as “How was your weekend”, I initially made the mistake of saying, “Well, you see, I adopted these two kittens…”. They looked at me quizzically, with an apparent wave of sympathy for my having been struck early with dementia. I quickly learned that the truth might be a career-limiting move, and a response along the lines of “Not bad, how was yours?” was the safer way to go. My second response was “I worked a bit on my book”…and, I kid you not…I am in the midst of writing a book (rest assured, not about kittens!). 

I like to think it was commitment, persistence and caring that kept me going. But, I suspect sheer stubbornness had more to do with things. I don’t take well to failure. I remember thinking: I have not come this far in life to be defeated by two little fluffballs with a combined IQ well south of my own. Then again, I also remember thinking how I couldn’t bear to part with either one of them …so, I imagine caring did play a bit of a role.

It’s funny, I often wondered whether part of my problem stemmed from the fact that I had adopted two females (even though both were spayed), and whether a male and a female might have been a wiser choice. Based on your situation, it appears not. 

I will close by noting that we now have cause for celebration -- because we have made our way to page 3 of this thread, and no longer need to scroll back and forth to read the posts! Good luck tonight, and may footsies be a goal soon realized.


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## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

OK, Day 3 with RR: no progress towards footsies, but modest other progress, maybe.

Susan, you gave me yet another good idea with your last post, on using a laser toy. When I described why I thought Snowball had been feral, I had meant to mention the one factor most strongly suggesting some home upbringing, then promptly forgot it. The only toy I have shown her to which she instantly responded was the laser light. This calm, quiet cat went crazy, at least for 30 seconds, chasing the laser light all over. It's the longest she has played with anything. The effect wears off quickly, though. And I hated it. I stopped using it when Blizzy went wild over it, then spent the next few minutes looking everywhere for the red light that had so mysteriously disappeared, once we finished. And of course he could never catch it. I really felt sorry for him. 

Anyway, despite the fact, as I said a few days ago, I don't like the laser myself and have retired it as well, I brought it out for playtime tonight, just as the RR was kicking in. And it worked, for about 30 seconds, with Snowball momentarily forgetting she was near the gate and following it close by. However, as soon as I switched to the other side, she regained her wits and moved away. She then barely followed the laser thereafter. When she had her first hissy fits a few weeks ago, I had tried to distract her with the laser, but she was so fixated she totally ignored it. This time she didn't hiss much, but she still ignored it. So I ended the game and gave both sides treats. Hershey and Blizzy ate theirs, as usual, but Snowball, who is not very treat-motivated either, just ignored them as well, as she has been doing with treats since the hissing started. I discovered she LOVES EVO dry food, though, so that's what I usually use, while still giving her some wet.

I had more success with the exchanging places session. Snowball came out of the carrier in the kitchen immediately and then re-explored the basement, first with and then without me, and then toured the main living area before joining me on my kitchen chair to relax while I ate dinner. She sniffed constantly while exploring, sat alone in the dark in the middle of the living room for about ten minutes (perhaps contemplating how life has changed?), actually ran up the basement stairs, the first time she's done that in weeks, and seemed more relaxed oot and aboot (a little Canadian dialogue there). Back upstairs in her room, she immediately hid in the bathroom, but she emerged a minute later, came near me and again watched H & B from afar. No sign of a thaw there. 

So she's happier to have the house back to herself from time to time. I can only hope the communal scent starts affecting her attitude. Hershey and Blizzy, by the way, didn't do anything untoward in her room. Not sure they did much at all, but that's ok, they were there, and she will know it. 

On your book-writing, that's quite a coincidence! Except for one thing--mine is just an idea I've had, a fictional work, and I haven't started it yet, though I did think it through and described the plot to several friends. I've found it makes for a much more normal conversation with them than cats (but what do THEY know?). I'm too young for retirement, too,  , but the stars aligned and I was able to do it. I used to work from 8 am until about 9 pm each night, so I never could have taken on one or two cats, much less three. At the moment I'm getting a lot more satisfaction out of them than I did at work the last few months. As for my own IQ, after watching H & B in particular, I'm not so sure I'm ahead of them, all things considered. Sure, they don't know the capital of Kazahkstan or how to maximize frequent flier miles, but they already probably know where everything in my house is better than I do. When it comes to predicting behavior, I think it's a draw--they probably know mine as well as I know theirs. If they were 6 feet tall and had opposable thumbs, I'm not sure who would be running the household!

(Astana--used to be Almaty.)


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

Yes. I’m with you. I don’t care for the laser light as a toy in itself, since there’s no catch at the end of the chase. I still use it upon occasion when I need to distract my two. Muffin has a great desire to sneak outside, which I can’t allow. I live in an area surrounded by ravines and forest, with only a few other houses about…and there’s plenty of wildlife, including raccoons and foxes, against which she wouldn’t stand a chance. So, if I need to go outside, I sometimes distract her with the light, enticing her away from the door in order to make my escape. A little sneaky perhaps, and not at all nice, but better than risking her getting outside and being harmed. 

Back to Snowball. It would be good if we could find a way to interest her in play. I’ll toss out a few suggestions, one at a time, for you to try – all based on what worked for Muffin, who was similarly difficult to interest in play. Some may work for Snowball; some may not; and some you might have already tried. My suggestion for this post is to try something where the toy (I used a mouse on a string) can hide behind or sneak around, such as a cat tunnel. I would dangle the mouse at one end of the tunnel, or let it sneak around or under the tunnel. As soon as I combined the mouse with the tunnel, Muffin suddenly took much more interest in chasing the mouse. I also used an old cardboard box with a few large holes cut in the sides. I dangled the mouse inside the box, letting it occasionally peak through the holes and, voila (more Canadian dialect), Muffin again took notice. I seem to recall reading somewhere that this technique appealed to the cat’s hunting instincts. Perhaps you might give it a shot. 

When I was going through the integration, I kept notes on our progress in order to report back to the behaviorist. I just looked back to my notes, and it was Day 7 before I first recorded Muffin and Abby playing on either side of the screen, without too much ado, and it was Day 11 before there was any mention of footsies. By Day 3, the biggest difference I had recorded was the way Muffin would react when she was with me. Prior to starting the program, she was very stressed, would often hiss or act aggressively toward me, and spent a lot of time hiding. By Day 3, she was a lot less stressed and was more affectionate. However, she was still growling at Abby when Abby got close to the screen. Muffs loved to play Da Bird (still does). By Day 3, whenever she would catch Da Bird, she would hold it in her mouth, glance in Abby’s direction and growl – as if to say “This Is MINE. Don’t Get Any Ideas, Lady”. (The fact that I have all of this recorded bears witness to my anal retentive side). In short, by Day 3, we were still at the baby steps’ stage, which is somewhat similar to what you’re seeing. So, don’t lose hope yet.

A fictional work. Alas, I don’t have the imagination required for that. Mine is a non-fiction text on a technical topic in my field of expertise (Mergers & Acquisitions). It’s about 1/3rd complete. No doubt it would be finished by now had I opted for fish instead of cats. But, like you, I get considerably more pleasure from my girls than from my book or other work-related matters. So I’m not concerned, and my publisher has not started hounding me (yet). 

I’m quite familiar with the 24/7 work schedule – although, with the odd unavoidable exception, I’ve always made it a rule to leave the office no later than 5 and work from home as necessary. Being a Partner affords me that luxury. My routine works quite well even now that the girls are on the scene, since I can get home in time to feed them and play with them, following which they settle in for a nap and I haul out the computer. Of course, a few hours later when she awakes, Abby determines that the board with the little black squares looks like a Really Fun Toy and will walk across the keyboard, or settle in front of the screen with her tail in my face. That then means it’s time to put the computer aside and grab Da Bird. So, it appears you are correct. Despite our likely relative scores on a standard IQ test, Abby and Muffin are the queens of this castle. In the words of Hippolyte Taine: “I have studied many philosophers and many cats. The wisdom of cats is infinitely superior.” 

Well, I must close for now, since my son will soon be here and we'll be off to my parents’ house for a family get-together. Have a Happy Easter, if you celebrate Easter. If not, have a wonderful day nonetheless.


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## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

A quick reply now, since I'll do my update this evening.

First things first: what a fabulous set of Easter pix!! Makes my day, their smile quotient is off the charts. And Happy Easter to you and everyone else who celebrates it.

Really appreciate the play ideas. My problem is less gaining her interest as sustaining it. By trial and error I've learned to "hide" mice, Da Bird and other toys in hiding places or nooks and crannies, which indeed prompts her hunting instinct (which is very strong). What happens is the first few times she sets herself, then pounces, but thereafter she sets herself but doesn't move, whether the object is hidden, in view or just a smidgen showing. She simply loses interest. If I leave her alone, after about 5 minutes she will often resume play herself, but only for about 30 seconds, and if I follow up with her it goes nowhere. Her idea of playing with Turbo Scratcher is to jump on the ball and push it a quarter turn around the track (Blizzy whacks it so it goes around about 3 times, Hershey so it goes 5 or 6 times). I use Cat Dancer Charmer to "climb" her Ultimate cat scratcher, and she will scale it and seize the fabric once, maybe twice, thereafter just stares. She also has a couple of Kong toys. I have tried staying with one toy or switching to multiple toys to sustain interest. Nothing keeps her going for long, so sustaining the interest is the focus.

Your anal retentiveness is my gain. The subtle changes I've noted in three days are that Snowball spends more time in front of the gate without hissing (one small one, one big one with a lunge towards Blizzy with right paw this am), and when she runs to hide in the bathroom or out of sight in the bedroom, she usually reappears soon after. She wants me to pet her before she eats, this seems to give her confidence and stimulates her going back to the bowl that sits within 2 feet of the gate (she eats a small meal in two or three segments, with pauses in between). Indeed, it was this display of "confidence", and after eating, that seems to have prompted her big hiss and lunge, as if to say "This is MY territory, go away!" This can be (and was) followed almost immediately after by her running away herself, even though H&B do nothing in reply except back away, so she alternates between bravado and fear. But less fear (I think), based on face time near the gate. And she is a bit more affectionate again now, though she has never stopped in that respect, save the one unfortunate clawing incident.

Hippolyte Taine? OK, off to Google him.

And my book idea is about baseball. We won't discuss work here, since that's not why we're on this Forum, but you may be a lawyer, investment or commercial banker, or consultant, if you have M&A focus. I dealt with investment and commercial bankers globally for many years, then moved upstairs to be Deputy GC and Acting GC of World Bank, rather than legal finance focus, so I think we appreciate each other's lifestyle. I could never leave at 5, though--it was 7, then 8, then 9, dinner and then back on BlackBerry, though I've got an iPhone and MacBook laptop now and am happier in the Apple environment.

Update later.


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

Glad you enjoyed the Easter pics! 

Hmm…if sustaining interest is the issue, then you and I are likely to be equally stumped, because to this very day, playing for any more than a few minutes would be a marathon session for Muffin. Abby will play as long as I’m willing and able. In contrast, after a few minutes of joining in on the fun, Muffin tends to sit quietly off to the side and watch. There’s no fear, aggression or other negative reaction (today). She simply seems perfectly content to watch. Perhaps, like people, some cats prefer to be participants, while others prefer to be spectators. If so, then it might be best to let Snowball set her own pace. 

Your comment about Snowball alternating between bravado and fear rang a bell, because that’s very descriptive of how Muffin reacted in the early days. It took about a week before both bravado and fear were, for the most part, replaced by neutrality. 

In any event, let’s see how tonight goes. I’m keeping my fingers crossed for all four of you. atback


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## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

Day 4 with RR--Crisis Management

First, Smirkitty, thanks for the suggestion. Fortunately for me, staring while eating is a problem I no longer have. It occurred the very first week that Snowball and Blizzy were being introduced in person (pre-Hershey), and it was unpleasant. However, Snowball got over it, and now, whether Hershey and BLizzy face away form the gate (as they often do), or face it and Snowball, not only when they are all eating, but even afterwards, there are no staring contests (and choir boy Blizzy was a guilty party at first, perhaps that's why Snowball seems to have it out for him more).

OK, Day 4, Susan, keep those fingers crossed, I think I'm going to need them, though as time passes from tonight's "incident", perhaps I'm being a bit melodramatic.

Halfway through tonight, I thought it would be pretty mundane, a lot like yesterday. Tried playing various games with Snowball pre-dinner, with usual very marginal success--actually, tonight she just watched me, even with Da Bird. Perhaps she was organizing her Day Planner or mentally filing her nails (no, strike that one). Blizzy and Hershey, on the other hand, had a great time with Da Bird. (And Susan, kudos, you were probably right, it was likely Blizzy who purloined Da Bird from the closet the other day. Two pieces of circumstantial evidence. First, he attacked the bird with a gusto I'd forgotten since Snowball's first encounter with it. Hershey the Dominant, on the other hand, he who steals the mouse from Blizzy's mouth and tries to push him aside to eat his food, who steals Cat Charmer from him, Hershey the Dominant played sidekick to Blizzy on Da Bird. He enjoyed it, but he has no killer instinct, he just wants to play. Second, later on, it was choir boy I found playing in the closet--Hershey is too busy wanting out of the bedroom.)

Anyway, Snowball retreated both to the bathroom and the far corner of the bedroom, pre-dinner, emerging periodically but jumpy. Dinner went fine, and she stretched out in front of them like last night, about five feet away. Post-dinner, Snowball was feeling good and in the mood to play, by her standards. She actually pushed the Turbo Scratcher ball 1 1/2 turns. She came up to the gate without hissing, then immediately ran back over to the Turbo scratch pad and scratched the living daylights out of it for a lonnng 10 seconds (I don't need to be Freud to figure out that was a stress outlet.) Then she sat down and observed.

The exchange started out fine, or better. Snowball emerged immediately in the kitchen from her carrier, roamed around, did her zen meditation in the dining room tonight, the hopped up into my lap as I ate dinner, purring even more vigorously than last night. Her purring went on for a good 10 minutes, as she gently nodded off to sleep with me petting her while eating, when bam, suddenly, who appears in the kitchen, but--Hershey! A minute of near chaos ensued. At least, it felt that way. Hershey of course came right up to Snowball and me, she gave a loud hiss, accompanied by instinctive digging of her nails into my jeans. I had to get her off of me while she was agitated, in order to get ahold of Hershey, who had bounded over the 42 inch high gate in order to be where I was, which meant not budging from standing right next to us. I finally managed to extricate myself from Snowball, leave her on the chair, and grab Hershey. I carried Hershey upstairs to put him back in the bedroom, looked down and Snowball was right on my heels (I guess she had to see this!!) I put Hershey down, closed the door (Blizzy emerged from the closet to see the commotion), and went back downstairs, with Snowball trailing behind me. 

To finish the narrative, I sat back down at the table to continue eating, and Snowball hopped right back up into my lap--and resumed purring! Speaking of cat IQs, she seemed to be thrilled with this turn of events! She proceeded once again to nod off in my lap. I let her sleep for a few minutes to get that satisfaction, while I held her, but then woke her to put her back in her carrier and go back to her bedroom. She ran right into the bathroom, but as soon as I turned to her and said in a soothing voice, "It's ok, Snowball, it's ok", she immediately came out and resumed her half-eaten dinner, which I'd hidden from H&B. Back to the bathroom, another "it's ok" from me, and out she came again, then lay down like last night.

That's where things stand. I knew when I bought the baby gate there was a risk Hershey and/or Blizzy would eventually jump over it. At 42 inches, it is the tallest gate I could locate, and it is a straight drop to the other side, but at least one reviewer of a shorter gate said his stray eventually had the courage to jump over, and once it happens once, all bets are off. Havana Browns have an even stronger impulse than many other breeds to be where their human is. So now I have a dilemma, though on second blush maybe not as bad as I'd feared. I will now close the door when I do the room exchange, so won't be able to escape. Most of the time Hersh and I are on the same side, so I doubt he'll jump over on those occasions. I also doubt he'll do so when I am on Snowball's side, as long as I am within sight. I do NOT want to buy a second gate and install it over the first, unless I absolutely have to, as I would then have to do the limbo to get under that gate about 30 times a day. And I dare Hershey to jump into the room with Snowball, though I think she would just hiss and hide, and he would eat her food and play with her toys, then hop out.

All things considered, I am probably the one who was most perturbed and needs to take a dose of RR, though I think Snowball would have reverted to old form had Hershey remained there for much longer. She really likes spending this extra time with me out of the bedroom, and that should pay dividends. 

And the CL should arrive on Monday, I think!! Poor Snowball really does get nervous easily, though she's got more self-confidence when I'm around, so that's good. I am only giving her the RR once a day, at night, though I may give the CL more often since I understand it's a form of B vitamin and I think it may help her more consistently. As for me, maybe a scotch with dinner?


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## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

Oh, yes--and Smirkitty, glad you are enjoying some of this. It's therapeutic for me, and also educational, as I am now doing a number of things suggested to me here in the last five days that I would NOT have done otherwise!


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## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

Cause for Optimism??--But with a Big Caveat
Quick update--last night, midnight, Snowball had a 5 minute play session, her longest in couple of weeks, in a series of short bursts. This morning she was bouncing around the bedroom like a kid's first day at school (today's the opening of the baseball season in DC, but I don't think she's a big baseball fan). She came right up to the baby gate three times, with H&B present, gave a mild hiss each time but only backed away a few feet. And when they disappeared around the corner to play, she even came right up to the gate to see what was going on, before retreating. However, and it's a big one, Hershey jumped over the gate INTO the bedroom three times, with me there. I got him out quickly each time and will try to tie something on top of the gate, but it's a big problem. Meanwhile, Snowball tore around the bedroom with a joie de vie, or pent-up energy, I hadn't seen lately and even played again, for awhile, with a couple of her toys. We'll see if I'm reading too much into this or if it continues.


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## Mitts & Tess (Sep 4, 2004)

This is great progress. Playing helps bond them with us. This is wonderful news! Shes moving forward!


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

Preamble: Since joining the forum, I have lost a few posts after hitting the Submit button (not sure why). In any event, I am now in the habit of preparing my response in Word and then copying it into the Reply box, so that if it subsequently disappears, I still have it in Word and don’t need to re-type. I mention this because I prepared my response to your tale of Day 4’s events prior to logging back onto the forum this morning and before reading your second update post. Since, my reply is already prepared, I shall post it in any event – but as you’re reading, recognize it was written without the benefit of having read your most recent post. I shall shortly post an update reply to deal with your update post!!

I read your tale with a mixture of sympathy and amusement. I also feel quite guilty, since I failed to earlier mention that you should always close the bedroom door when you’re not there to supervise. Both an error and an omission on my part. Sorry about that. 

It doesn’t surprise me in the slightest that Hershey was able to get out. Prior to installing the screen, I was using a baby gate to separate Muffs and Abby. My baby gate was 32 inches high. Although that’s 10 inches shorter than yours, we can’t forget the difference in size between Abby and Hershey. To illustrate, at the bottom of this post, I have included a picture of Abby standing next to a side table in my dining room. The table leg shown is a few inches shorter than my baby gate, although this picture was taken about 2 weeks before the baby gate went up, so Abby was a bit taller by then. All in all, the gate was about 4-5 times Abby’s height at the relevant time. Yet, what did she do? 

Well, the little squirt, who wasn’t much taller than a coke can, tried with all her might to jump the gate to get out of the dining room. She kept coming up short. I was in the kitchen watching her while I made dinner. I was quite amused by her antics, but not worried in the least. She then backed up a few feet and took a running leap. Got a bit higher, but still came up short. She then backed up to almost the far side of the room (all the while, idiot here was still laughing). She took a REALLY long running leap, managed to “grab” the horizontal rail at the top of the gate with her front paws and pulled herself up to a standing position on the top rail (like a gymnast pulling herself up onto a horizontal bar). She took a second to get her bearings, looked at me as if to say “Now who’s laughing”, and then calmly jumped from the top of the gate to the floor. I was in a state of disbelief. I swept her up and put her back on the other side of the gate. With the benefit of experience, she then knew the precise length of the required running leap. So, she went back to that exact spot, and jumped to the top of the gate again. From that point on, as you have correctly concluded, all bets were off, and it was time for Plan B. 

If Hershey starts to make a habit of jumping the gate (as Abby did), I will then reveal Plan B. Since the details of Plan B might cause you to think I’m a bit of a fruitcake, Plan B shall remain a mystery for now. As for two gates – I can think of only one reason why you might want to buy a second gate, and that is if you also plan on making a video of yourself doing the limbo under the gate, and then posting the video on the forum. Otherwise, I’m with you. One gate is quite enough. In any event, you’re correct. You will now need to close the door during the room exchange. Let’s just hope Hershey hasn’t been on the phone with Neko, or you’ll also need to buy a lock for the bedroom door.

I don’t think you need to view this incident as a setback. Muffin managed to get into the dining room on our Day 4 (long story). All **** broke loose and within a few seconds, the two were fighting and screeching. I managed to separate them and get Muffin out of the room in short order, and fortunately neither was hurt. I remember thinking we had now taken a giant step backwards. Yet, despite the fight, there was no appreciable difference in their reaction to each other at the screen. In fact, shortly thereafter, I started to see positive results. So, it turned out to be a non-event.

It’s good to hear that Snowball is starting to feel more comfortable in the main house during the room exchange. That’s a positive sign. It’s also terrific that, despite her fear, she was right on your heels when you carried Hershey back to the bedroom, and that she comes out of the bathroom when you reassure her it’s ok. Even with her prior lack of socialization, she has clearly formed a trusted relationship with you. That will go a long way to overcoming her fear of H & B. 

I have got to admire Hershey. He shows no fear, and just wants to play, despite what he has been through (I’m not sure what, but I recall you saying he was near death when rescued a few months back). As for Blizzy, the choir boy is guilty as charged – but it’s hardly a capital offense. And since Blizzy was quietly playing in the closet, while H & S were causing you heartburn and adding to your grey hair, my sentencing recommendation would be a few days probation at most. 

I don’t recommend the scotch, since it seems you will need all your wits about you to deal with your three rescues. I will keep both my fingers and my toes crossed from now on.


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

Update to prior post. First of all, Snowball’s current behavior sounds like a HUGE step forward. Let’s hope it continues and improves even further day by day. 

Second, you have now forced my hand, and I have no choice but to reveal Plan B. Now remember, necessity is the mother of invention, and I will agree in advance that Plan B was a little out there. In my defense, I must point out that Plan B was concocted during desperate times. 

Plan B was to blow up balloons and tape the bottom part (where you tie the balloon) to the outer side of the baby gate (outer relative to the door), such that the top of the gate was lined with balloons, with no visible space in between. The balloons didn’t interfere with my ability to close the door, since they just bent over away from the door when closed. I figured the added height would deter Abby from trying to jump the gate. I also figured that, if she did try to scale the gate, either she wouldn’t succeed or she might pop a balloon, which would send her scurrying back into the dining room and, hopefully, dissuade her from trying again. Now, Abby is absolutely fearless, so I knew that if a balloon were to pop, it might startle her and perhaps cause her to re-think jumping a second time – but would not mentally scar her for any length of time. And I wasn’t concerned about Muffin, since she had shown no interest in jumping the gate. Second, Abby was only able to jump to the top rail of the gate and then down – she wasn’t able to clear the gate in one fell swoop. So, there was no danger of her popping a balloon and getting startled in mid-air – and thus, no danger of her hurting herself. As it turned out, the added height provided by the balloons did, in fact, discourage Abby from attempting to jump the gate.

Only you know your situation well enough to decide whether the perception of added height might deter Hershey from trying to jump over the gate, or how Hershey (and B & S) might react if a balloon were to pop if he tried to jump over. If you think Plan B is a little too farfetched or won’t work in your case, no problem. In fact, it was after mounting balloons that I started to think of other ways to solve the problem, which led to my installing the screen on the other door a few days later. Now, you presumably have only one entrance to work with, so my ultimate screen solution won’t work for you. Thus, I shall turn my mind to a potential Plan C. Stay tuned... In the meantime, my fingers and toes remain crossed.


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## OctoberinMaine (Sep 12, 2006)

NewRescueDad said:


> As for my own IQ, after watching H & B in particular, I'm not so sure I'm ahead of them, all things considered. Sure, they don't know the capital of Kazahkstan or how to maximize frequent flier miles, but they already probably know where everything in my house is better than I do. When it comes to predicting behavior, I think it's a draw--they probably know mine as well as I know theirs. If they were 6 feet tall and had opposable thumbs, I'm not sure who would be running the household!
> 
> (Astana--used to be Almaty.)


You two are entertaining writers! This is getting very Algonquin Table.

It doesn't behoove us to get too high-and-mighty when it comes to IQs. When a cat can enter a room and instantaneously know what item in the room is new, I've got to humble myself to that.


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

Hi October. Glad you're enjoying the thread. So am I -- although I suspect NewRescueDad will enjoy things more when there is harmony in the household. And you are right about the IQ. I must eat humble pie for that comment !!


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## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

Was out all day, a quick update now.

First, October, thanks on my part, too. Glad you are enjoying this. I am, too, truly, though I am also goal oriented and hoping the advice given helps me solve what seemed, and still looms, as an intractable problem, though maybe it is now tractable!

Second, I find it hard to type with Hershey draped over my right arm as he is now and often, chin and both arms. "Fearless", Susan, is precisely what his foster said he was in describing him to me, though I've seen him draw back briefly when Snowball is going through one of her Glenn Close imitations. The best description of Havana Browns I've read on the Net says that while most cats run away when they hear a commotion in the next room, Havanas run towards the commotion to see what the fuss is about. Fearless but feckless, is among what I love about him.

Third, I rarely do LOLs, and I almost never, ever do ROFLs, but your narrative about Abby the gymnast had me in stitches. Hershey is competing in the standing high jump. I see him look up once, twice, then he launches himself vertically. I haven't caught him in the act yet in gatejumping, but I have ample evidence from counters that he is an expert standing high jumper.

Fourth, fruitcake--NOT. Ballooncake, maybe. Not a bad idea. There is a French expression--bricolage-- that means taking what you have handy and cobbling together a solution. I had two spare ceramic food dishes sitting nearby, no balloons, and I have taped them to the top of the gate, strategically, thereby adding another six inches of height but also an unstable, curved surface that looks tricky to surmount. To ME, anyway....Balloons can be Plan D.

Last for now--(doing his best Steve Martin imitation from The Jerk), "The new CL is here! The new CL is here!" I'll use a little less RR with it, as I'm a little leery of overmedicating, even though CL isn't a "medication" per se. Let's see how this evening goes. Off to play, feed, exchange and hope for the best!


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

Well, I can safely say that I have never before done an ROFL, since I had to visit google to figure out what it meant!! Glad you enjoyed the story. Abby is one of the most determined little creatures you could ever meet. She's still very tiny (a little over 4 lbs at almost 10 months), but she doesn't let her small stature stand in the way. If she wants something, she will find a way to get it. 

Ceramic bowls (as opposed to plastic)...my, you do like to live dangerously. It would seem you and Hershey are a good match in the fearless department. Here's hoping that the added height and unstable surface do the trick. 

I had a day off from work today and was home with the girls. I was able to watch them enjoy a lovely mutual cuddling/grooming session, and I took the pictures below earlier this afternoon. Not the greatest quality since I couldn't get the camera to work, so I just grabbed my Blackberry. (I must invest in a new camera soon!) As you can see they've gone from worst enemies to best friends. I very much hope that you will be posting similar pics a few months from now. Good luck tonight....my fingers and toes remain crossed.


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## Mitts & Tess (Sep 4, 2004)

NewRescueDad said:


> Last for now--(doing his best Steve Martin imitation from The Jerk),
> "The new CL is here! The new CL is here!"


1 ml morning and evening!


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## ChelleBelle (Sep 14, 2009)

I have to admit, if nothing else, these posts are entertaining. 

As far as the babygate problem, I bought three of the 32 inch gates and stacked them in the door. Brandy showed no interest in jumping/climbing the gates, but Bella did. She climbed the first, then the second, and finally the third. We had to tie a piece of cardboard through the opening. 8O :lol: 

If you don't wish to put both the CL and RR in her food, try dropping RR on her paw so she will lick it, or rubbing a couple drops on your finger and rubbing her ear. 

Your progress is good. I wish my cats could be in the same room without fighting, that's their issue. Not the gates. They will stand at the gates all day and stare at one another, neither hiss nor growl. Gates come down and it's Royal Rumble Time! I should sell tickets, it would be a great fight. :roll: 

Keep up the good work, and the updates!

'Chelle


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## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

Thanks, Mitts & Tess and ChelleBelle. I did 1 ml of CL tonight, plus 2 drops RR, will do CL again in the morning. I do like stories with happy endings, particularly my own, so I am hoping for the best. I really, really don't want to rehome Snowball, even though I had wanted two cats, not three (still a long story, and I do enough of them as is). 

Susan, it seems we've got an audience of at least 2 or 3 others. Supportive as they are, I now am feeling the pressure to perform. It's me on the line, not just Snowball. Just as you said earlier, I don't like to fail, either, but I remain not very optimistic. Also, you're killing me with all of your precious photos--they are really just great. I can really assure you, I will NEVER end up with a photo of Snowball and anybody grooming each other. (I know, never say never--by the way, do male cats groom each other? I suppose they do, all the time, but Hershey and Blizzy, as well as they've gotten along from Day One, groom themselves, side by side often, but not each other. Makes sense to me.

Also, on your gymnast, wanted to mention one thing about my prior, and first and only, cat, Sport. Had him for 18 years, neighbor had abandoned him to the sewer, he was outdoor/indoor. At around 2 or 3, one day I saw him on a bench on my lower deck, eyeing the upper deck. I have 8 foot ceilings in my house, and the bench was about 12 inches off the lower deck. So I figure it was a good 7 feet, or 84 inches, to the top deck. Sporty looked as if he was about to jump. I said to him, "Don't you even think about it!" He looked up, then leapt up, grabbed the lip of the top deck with his front paws and pulled himself safely up onto the deck. It clearly was not the first time he had tried that maneuver. I was dumbfounded. So I didn't think a 42 inch high gate would be insurmountable (that's actually the right word, isn't it!).

OK, on to Day 5, and Day 1 with CL: Actually, not much to report tonight, and maybe that's ok. It was a mellow evening. Gave Snowball 1 ml CL plus 2 drops RR, as noted. Good news--Snowball again played a bit before dinner, mainly with a hide and seek wooden box with holes into which I place a furry mouse, the Da Bird, and also the small Kong Wubba Wubba (a great toy, but I refuse to tell ANYONE outside this group I have bought Wubba Wubbas, as that's the last straw for friends on the insanity test.) Hershey and Blizzy watched (incredulously, I prefer to think) as Snowball effortlessly inserted her paw and pulled up the mouse, put it back in, then pulled it out again. THEY can't do that. Then again, they don't yet have slasher claws. Only a minor-league hiss. Dinner went fine, then 30 minutes later we exchanged places (and I closed the door, to keep Hershey from jumping out--not YOUR fault Susan, for not telling me, if my IQ were higher than a cat's I might have figured it out  .

I let Snowball out in the upstairs hall, and unlike three days ago, this time she came out and explored an upstairs room. She went back into the carrier a couple of times, but when I went downstairs, she trotted right behind. She's clearly pretty comfortable again downstairs, sat in my lap again for dinner, purring again (but doesn't help with the ants, either-only Blizzy points them out for me--he sees everything-- but no one DOES anything to them). I went into the family room, she hopped into my lap and settled down to snooze, as she had last done there about a month ago (!), after sniffing H&B everywhere in the room. I liked this part--when I was ready to close the session of 90 minutes, I walked back upstairs to where the carrier was, and she followed me and went right into the carrier!

We then all mellowed out and had what I would describe as a languorous and languid play session. Snowball lay on her side, motionless except that her tail would not stop twitching. Hershey was 3 feet away, right by the gate, quietly looking at her. Snowball strettttched out, back and front paws out, not a care in the world. She even turned her head upside down. Hersh looked at her quietly, Blizzy sleeping in he background. I decided not to move, just to see if Snowball would simply go to sleep. After 5 minutes, she literally sidled over to the hide-and-seek box and dangled her paw into it ever so daintily, like someone poolside dipping their toe into the water. She pulled out Da Bird and while still on her side very daintily tried to skin it. All in slow motion. Hershey would occasionally trill, which he does to announce his presence. Twice she growled back, but a very low, quick, perfunctory growl, like a grunt someone would make when they are reading the newspaper and you talk to them, expecting a response. This went on for 10 minutes. I played slow motion Da Bird with her. I thought she'd fall asleep, but she didn't.

So this is what CL does to her? Not so bad, but no sign of acceptance or interest yet, either. A change of pace day, ok to have, and certainly I have noted she spends a lot of time in front of them now without hissing or growling. Let's see how long before she decides she wants to learn the secret pawshake!


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

Well, it’s back-to-work day, so I only have time for a quick post. But, before I leave, I did want to address one point raised in your update. 

Nobody is “on the line” here – neither you nor Snowball. And there can be absolutely no doubt that you will succeed, provided we recognize that success can take one of two forms. You will succeed If you get to a place where your three rescues are able to co-exist peacefully. That will be success from your perspective. But you will also succeed if you get to a place where you realize that Snowball needs to be in a single-cat home, and you find a new loving home for her. Although difficult for you, that outcome might be the success required from her perspective. Some cats just need to be in a one-cat family, whether due to their personality, a prior bad experience with other cats, or other reasons. So, don’t think of this “program” as some sort of university course that you and Snowball will either pass or fail. It’s more like one of those career-aptitude tests that is intended to determine the direction that is right for you and, more importantly, the direction that is right for Snowball. 

Anyway, enough preaching from me. I will post again after work, but I now have to deal with those pesky little people referred to as clients. Roll on retirement!

Susan


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## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

Thanks, Susan, for the additional advice. But I think/hope you know what I mean, since you also described this in terms of not liking to fail. When you invest a lot of time and energy in something and care about the individuals, you want it to work. But I won't force it indefinitely and will do what makes Snowball happy for the long run. Anyway, this is only Day 6, so we'll just tuck that away for now.

Day 6, Brief weather report: continuing mild and partly sunny, with occasional growling, 30 percent chance of human stupidity. Awoke to Snowball again playing with her hide-and seek box. When I opened door, she looked at Blizzy, didn't react, then charged the gate with her paw, but it was about a 2 or 3 on Richter scale--used to be a 7 or 8. She grumble/muttered a few times but still hung around the play area. I fed her just one foot from gate, went fine, am inching her toys closer as well. Last night at bedtime I managed to let Hershey get into the bedroom briefly. He went right up to Snowball, she assumed the defensive side crouch position but hissed very mildly, and after I grabbed him and he exited, she was fine. I do manage to do one or two stupid things a day on this (won't tell you the really stupid one), but they aren't derailing things yet. Full report tonight, if anything to report.


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## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

Trying to upload a better image of Snowball, in medium, with her one yellow and one blue eye.


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

She's georgous!!...and those eyes just melt your heart.


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

I have now finished dealing with the pesky little people, fed the cats, played Da Bird and said to heck with the dishes…so, back to my reply. You say you remain “not very optimistic”. From my reading of your update, Snowball is making excellent progress. If you go back to your very first post in this thread, you described Snowball as hissing whenever Blizzy was in sight, hiding most of the time, and running away from her food dish. We’re now into languid play sessions, languishing by the pool, and eating only a foot away from the gate. I know there’s still a bit of hissing and perfunctory growling going on, but that’s perfectly normal. I separated my “integration” notes (of Muffin/Abby) into “Positives” and “Negatives”. The positives for Day 5 included a greater willingness to eat and play by the screen, often just calmly sitting a few feet away from the screen, taking a greater interest in her toys, and being more affectionate with me. The negatives included some growling (but less than the prior week), a fair amount of posturing by the screen (often in a crouched “I’m ready to pounce” position, ears back, tail thumping), and a tendency to back up or run away from the screen whenever Abby would run up to the screen wanting to play. 

Up until now, we’ve discussed what to do, but not why we’re doing it (that being the Royal “we”, since you’re doing all the work…I’m just the cheerleader). I can only tell you what I’ve been told or what I’ve read – but I understand that this technique is called “desensitizing and counter-conditioning”. The desensitizing part is exactly what you would suspect – a gradual decrease in Snowball’s fear of H&B through continued exposure in a non-threatening setting. The counter-conditioning part is intended to create positive associations with whatever the cat is/was afraid of (H&B in your case). Although the program is designed to address both aspects, the desensitization has to happen before the counter-conditioning can kick in. Put simply, before Snowball can start to accept H&B, she must first learn not to fear them. And your description indicates a considerable reduction in her fearfulness, which is the first step along the road to ultimate acceptance and a desire to get in on the secret pawshake. These points were explained to me by the behaviorist, following which I did some web searches on the issues. Below are a couple of articles that I found helpful and that allowed me to better understand what I was doing. Perhaps you might also find these to be of use.

http://www.animalhumanesociety.org/webfm_send/43

http://maxshouse.com/behavior/desensitization_and__countercond.htm

Now, you might think that the only reason Snowball is less fearful is due to the CL/RR, which is no cause for celebration. In a similar vein, I used Feliway, although in my case that was enough, since Muffin had a very positive reaction to Feliway. As soon as I plugged it in, she went to sniff it, and you could literally see the stress drain out of her. I asked the behaviorist whether I should stop using Feliway. Essentially, I was concerned that it might mask her true behavior, such that the positive results I might see wouldn’t truly be a reduction in fear, but would just be the result of using Feliway (I think you have the same concern). He told me that Muffin’s fear would reduce if she was repeatedly exposed to Abby in situations where no negative consequences arose – and the fact that the Feliway (or in your case the CL/RR) increased the likelihood of such repeated events taking place would help, not hurt, the situation. So, even though Snowball’s tranquility might be the result of CL/RR, the fact that she is being exposed to H&B with no (nominal) negative consequences is simultaneously reducing her fear. 

Wubba Wubba? What the heck is Wubba Wubba? Perhaps that’s something only sold south of the border. Either that or I’ve been missing out. But, it doesn’t surprise me that Wubba Wubba might raise many an eyebrow. 

I liked your story about Sport – he and Abby sound like they would have gotten along famously: the gymnast and the chin-up artist. I take it that jump endeared you to him and was the start of your 18-year relationship. I hear it’s not unusual for cats to jump up to 5 or 6 times their body length. Fortunately I only have one jumper. Since Muffin is a ragdoll, she rarely jumps on anything (her anatomy does not allow her to jump very high). She can jump on the couch and the bed, but if she tries anything much higher, she falls down!! She’s my little klutz. 

Do male cats groom each other? Now, what kind of a question is that (other than a CLEAR indication that you spent your teenage years in the sixties).  Of course male cats groom each other!! And you’re right, never say never. For example, I NEVER thought I’d encounter someone who’s as useless as I am on Photobucket... 

Finally, having raised the issue, you now have no choice but to tell us the really stupid thing that you did. Turn about is fair play. I was required to reveal my stupid Plan B – and, I might add, my only reward for this astonishing act of human kindness was to be referred to as Ballooncake!! So, fess up. 

Looking forward to this evening’s weather report.


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## Mitts & Tess (Sep 4, 2004)

Ive always wanted a white cat with two different color eyes! 
that just is so cool!

I give my CL with a syringe and orally. Twice a day. If you need 
coaching on scruffing and injecting let me know.


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## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

Hi Guys,

I spent over an hour late last night composing an update, then when I tried to send it my local servers were down and I lost it all. Too tired to duplicate now. Will simply say Day 6 showed no real change from Day 5. Will answer some points raised after I fully wake up; I'm still asleep as I type this. Glad two of you liked the pic of Snowball--she had me at "Hello, kitty", with those eyes and her silky fur, as I had gone to the shelter to look at a Russian Blue, just to start looking, for the first time in many years. I couldn't pass her up. Someone else came in to apply for her 20 minutes later.


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## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

Well guys, it just happened again. One must get logged out automatically if you don't post in x minutes. I composed a response, not in Word, went to send it, and the Forum said I was not logged in. I'll take some time off now, will post later this evening. Basic messages: things are ok, but I think we'll stall between desensitization and counter-conditioning--the main reason for being less than sanguine is I think Hershey and Blizzy are now too active play wrestlers and biters with each other, will be very hard for Snowball to live with that, if we get to that stage; I have Feliway diffuser as well but it hasn't helped; my stupidity was taking a shower and leaving the bedroom door open a hair's crack, acting as if Hershey wouldn't try to jump over the gate with the door "closed"--of COURSE he would, a brain freeze; the Kong Wubba Wubba is a wonderful, highly-rated on Amazon octopus-like toy with crinkly legs that all three cats like; and Hershey may be more suited for the balance beam, as he briefly balances on the 7/8 wide ledge on the baby gate before flipping over. That would disqualify him in the standing high jump. Thanks for the offer on the syringe, Mitts & Tess, but I'm not big on needles and will stick with oral doses, which seem to be having an effect. And thanks, Susan, for the explanation and further resources. I have some familiarity with the concepts but was not familiar with those articles and am only too happy to read them.


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## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

Still trying to upload a medium image. I know it's not that hard. Let's see if this works, of Hershey and Blizzy, looking outside.







[/img]


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## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

Still trying. And deleting last post didn't take, either! I can't seem to get to Preferences in Photobucket to save image URL, but the Mac gives me another option I am trying. First I'm trying as Img. Then I'm trying as URL, to see if at least one of them will work. And the image is only 240x320 in Photobucket.








http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af285/sbwhite73/My Cats/IMG_0155.jpg?t=1270664438


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

Can't get online. Currently using blackberry. Difficult so must be brief. They are big boys! But we can't see faces! Will post later when computer problems fixed.


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## Mitts & Tess (Sep 4, 2004)

NewRescueDad said:


> Thanks for the offer on the syringe, Mitts & Tess,
> but I'm not big on needles and will stick with oral doses, which seem to be
> having an effect.


There are no needles involved. Its just sucks it up with the correct amount 
and then you squirt it into the mouth!


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## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

I got one pic, finally, in medium, not huge, and now you want FACES? OK, I'll see what I can do. The earlier pic of Blizzy the choir boy is the best I have of him. Hershey, as a chocolate cat, is hard to photograph in a strong light that shows his facial features, but I'll work on it.

Day 7: no real change. I'll summarize where we are anon. I think the time has come to wrap up this particular thread, at 5 pages, and start a new one that is simply a narrative of whether things are improving, and how, if they are. This past week has been wonderful for me in terms of getting the kind of detailed, useful advice I could immediately apply and that has definitely changed my approach. I still need and want the feedback, so I am not signing off. I'm just not sure how much there will be to say each and every day on this. As long as there is, I will comment and will welcome feedback. And I will have questions. For instance, I'm seriously thinking that at some point I should introduce Hershey and Snowball together in a room, without Blizzy present. Not now, not even soon, perhaps. But he's not only the Alpha cat, but also she has less stress with him than with Blizzy, because although he hangs out right next to the baby gate, he is never in her face, is much more interested in her food than her, and knows intuitively how to back off when she mildly charges him. Blizzy sets her teeth on edge, and I think it's because occasionally he stares at her in what I understand to be an aggressive manner. Unblinking, unyielding. Eventually, she runs off, only to come back a minute later, but I see what's going on.

"Some people see things as they are and ask why; I dream things as they never were and ask, why not." Attributed to Robert Kennedy, used by Teddy Kennedy in his eulogy for his brother, and attributed by Robert Kennedy to a George Bernard Shaw play. So my general philosophy is optimistic. I am not sanguine in this case, for several reasons but mainly because coexistence/detente is the best I could imagine, and not Snowball becoming a playmate with either Hershey or Blizzy. 

Where we stand: I do agree that there has been progress over the past week, but even with Day 3 of CL, I sense things are plateauing. I note that Susan said between Days 6 and 11 there was what I would call a lull, before desensitization reached a stage where it could turn into positive counter-conditioning. I am now in desensitization phase, without knowing how long before it fully subsides, if ever. Snowball still charges Hershey at the gate once each session, mildly, but she also mostly stays within full view, a little over three feet from him, with Blizzy usually sitting about six feet further behind (Blizzy is one smart dude!--he knows he's not so welcome). Occasionally Blizzy joins Hershey up front, and that usually leads to another Snowball gate charge, just after a mild growl. But she is very comfortable sitting in front of the gate, three feet away, and occasionally playing with her toys. A little backsliding early today, when I accidentally let Blizzy slip by into the room, he walked right up to Snowball, and she freaked out again, but by evening back to the new normal. I would love to say Snowball has shown the slightest interest in meeting Hershey on neutral ground. We're still desensitizing, so we're not there yet. At least she does look at Hershey, and occasionally Blizzy, almost all the time without reacting. She's getting to the point where she feels safe, with me there, and with a gate between them.

If there's anything to respond to in the morning re this post, I'll be happy to do so. Otherwise, stay tuned for a new thread I will open, which is a soap opera roughly titled As the Snowball Turns; no, how about Snowball, Hershey and Blizzy, as Their World Turns; no, maybe it's just Snowfeld--a thread about a whole lot of nothing!


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## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

Mitts&Tess--thanks for the clarification! I can do that! The question is, do I want to? That is, more than once? Snowball is a sweetheart who won't allow me to touch her paws, much less clip them. I am trying to desensitize her by running my fingers on them briefly whenever I pet her, but she's a tough nut to crack! I've been doing this for a month, with barely any positives. Now, the CL and RR may make her more pliable, but I imagine the first time I squirt her in the mouth will be the last--for awhile.

Main point is that she is lapping up her CL and RR with her meals, pretty much, so I don't yet need Plan B< but I really will kee it in mind. that and the ear massage with RR if needed.. I give 2 drops RR in evening, and 1 ml CL morning and again in evening.


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## NRD (Mar 31, 2010)

Susan,

Read both of the articles you linked to in yesterday's post. They are excellent. There is one change I think I need to implement in response to them, and other articles I have read. I think I am making a mistake in allowing Snowball even the one hiss and charge towards the gate. The articles all say that the behavior needs to be eliminated before proceeding to the next step, and that if the negative behavior continues at all, you are moving too fast and need to step back to where the negative behavior does not occur. For me that will mean either very short sessions with her favorite food, the dry EVO, and/or confining Blizzy and just letting Hershey and her eat on either side of the gate until she no longer hisses at him at all. By letting her hiss, even once, I take it I am reinforcing the negative . So let me try shorter and more frequent sessions for a few days, to see if that helps move things forward. 

Last post for me on this thread! Story will continue on another, new thread, but for this one to be useful to other members (and I see another new member has been referred to it, which is great and a credit mainly to Susan, since she's the one providing most of the advice, and also to Mitts&Tess and 'ChelleBelle, sorry if I've forgotten someone), it can't be so long it is impossible to wade through it all.


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## Jadedea Jade (Feb 3, 2009)

October said:


> NewRescueDad said:
> 
> 
> > As for bugs, it's spring and the annual "ants marching" has started in the kitchen.
> ...


i dont get marching ants, i get flying ants for some reason. and then i also get this triangle shaped looking beetle things. i have no clue what they are. any of ya get slugs? nnaasssstttyyyy

and the all black big bumble bees are smacking my window now too.


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## Mitts & Tess (Sep 4, 2004)

NewRescueDad said:


> Mitts&Tess--thanks for the clarification!
> I can do that! The question is, do I want to? That is, more than once?


 :lol: Do what is easiest! Ive mainlined it into them because I was looking for 
immediate results. 

Ill be interested to know if putting it in food is just as effective.


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

Sorry I haven’t posted of late. I am still unable to get online at home. Our tech support people at work say the problem is my home internet service; my internet provider says the problem is my computer. I’m monkey in the middle, and I’m about to starting bashing heads with my bananas if this nonsense continues. A friend of mine (who works in high tech and is a wiz) is coming over tomorrow to see if he can help. Anyway, until the problem is resolved (which could take a few days), I can only post/read when I’m at work during lunch or after hours, or struggle with the blackberry. WARNING: Posting on blackberry is hazardous to your eyesight!!

First, NewRescueDad, to take picture of faces, you need to stand in FRONT of the cat and then press the little button. :wink: Ok, ok…I can appreciate that a chocolate cat and the lighting might pose difficulties. But, you must try again. Until reading your posts, I’d never before heard of a Havana Brown, and I don’t think I’ve ever seen a chocolate cat. He must be very rare...not to mention precious. 

The difference in the way Snowball reacts to Hershey vis-à-vis Blizzy might have something to do with their age (I seem to recall Blizzy is still a kitten, while Hershey’s a bit older than Snowball). I remember that, before (and after) they were separated by the screen, Abby was always very “in-your-face” with Muffin, staring, chasing, pouncing, doing what I refer to as the witch dance (the Halloween cat’s posture), etc. When I spoke to my behaviorist, I asked him why Abby was so aggressive. He said, she wasn’t – she was just a kitten – and movements that, in adult cats, would be signs of aggression were, in kittens, signs of just wanting to play. 

You might be on to something in wanting to introduce H & S, without Blizzy present, given the way in which the two older ones interact. You might also find that Blizzy mellows out a bit as he gets older, which bodes well for co-existence in the longer term. 

You’re right about there being a plateau in the Day 6-11 period. In fact, during those days, I often thought we were moving backwards. Abby was totally FED UP with being locked up. When I was in her room, she was fine and would play with me. But, when I was on Muffin’s side, Abby would literally throw herself against the screen over and over in an attempt to get out, which for obvious reasons did not help in “desensitizing” Muffin. When Abby recognized the screen was not about to give way, she gave up and retreated to her cat tree to look out the window, and she then ignored us (that started on Day 7). Also, on Day 7, Muffs started running around the house like a crazed animal, and started biting me again. I was at my wits end and I felt really guilty – because both Muffs and Abby were clearly unhappy. In fact, back then, the only time the three of us were happy was when the two with tails were sleeping! Yet, for some mysterious reason, by Day 11 and 12, I started to notice a change for the better, including footsies. Perhaps the benefit of the desensitization had “kicked in” at that point, or perhaps they had come to recognize that I was not just whistling Dixie, and they had no choice but to get with the program. Whatever the reason, it was (generally) uphill from there. 

OK...so, now I must come clean. I earlier suggested you should trim Snowball’s claws, thus implying that I do the same for my two. Fat chance of that. I tried once with Muffs. HUGE mistake…like you, I got a bit of one claw plus a warning. I then took her to the groomers, for a claw trim and a thorough brushing (since she also used to run away when I tried to brush her). I don’t know what happened behind closed doors, but when they gave her back to me, they kindly asked me not to bring her back !! Muffin HATES to be handled. Fortunately, I have a fabulous vet, who’s very good with both of them. He’s one of those people who is great with animals, and he takes time at the start of each visit to let Muffin get comfortable with him before he starts any procedures. He is the one who now trims her claws, and Abby’s, and they don’t seem to mind when he does. Muffin is slowly getting used to being brushed…so, I now take care of that. 

I think you’re right about shorter and more frequent sessions. I started with 20-30 minutes play sessions three times a day (before work, as soon as I got home and later in the evening). On weekends, I did 4-5 sessions. We only spent 15 minutes actually playing. The rest of the time was spent with me running back and forth and/or enticing Muffin back to the screen to participate. By about Day 6 or 7, Muffs (generally) would remain by the screen, so I no longer had to hunt her down – which resulted in the sessions lasting about 20 minutes. 

I’ll close for now and will post all future replies on your new thread (once you start it!!).


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## vapid (Aug 2, 2010)

Could I bump this thread in order to get the meaning of CL/RR? I'm finding myself lost in those cases. 

http://www.catforum.com/forum/36-cat-chat/135485-introducing-3-month-old-9-month-old.html

Feel free to stop by with any other points


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## Susan (Mar 29, 2010)

vapid said:


> Could I bump this thread in order to get the meaning of CL/RR? I'm finding myself lost in those cases.
> 
> http://www.catforum.com/forum/36-cat-chat/135485-introducing-3-month-old-9-month-old.html
> 
> Feel free to stop by with any other points


You need only read the first page of this thread to understand what you should do, although you can of course read the rest out of interest. The rest of the thread outlines NewRescueDad's day-to-day experiences with his cats, but his experience will no doubt differ from yours (one of his cats was a feral; he had three cats, not two; your cats are younger, etc.). It's entirely possible that if you slow down your current introduction and just let Betty guide the pace, rather than rushing things too much, your cats might not need all of the effort that is outlined in this thread.

CL/RR means Composure Liquid/Rescue Remedy, which are holistic remedies you can use to help cats calm down. I never used either remedy (although I did use Felliway). If you have any questions regarding CL, RR or Felliway, you might want to post a new thread on the topic rather than resurrecting this thread. 

I have responded further on your "Introducing 3-mth old to 9-mth old" thread.


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