# Are these Siamese or Tonkinese?



## rivernuts (Apr 12, 2006)

Anyone know for certain which breed these cats are.


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## Sky Eyes Woman (Feb 26, 2006)

Well, I'm gonna guess Tonkinese because they don't have the sharply wedge-shaped face you usually see on a Siamese. Doesn't matter though, because they're both gorgeous! :love2


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## DesnBaby (Apr 18, 2004)

Lovely kitties


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## rivernuts (Apr 12, 2006)

I'm only asking because I purchased my cats under the assumption they were Tonkinese and recently someone told me they were Siamese.


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## GJ's Mom (Nov 29, 2004)

They do look like they are Tonkinese


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## zippy96444 (Mar 7, 2006)

THey are beautifull! Tell us their history. Where did you get them, names ...... just would love to know.


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## TxnKats (Jun 9, 2005)

rivernuts said:


> I'm only asking because I purchased my cats under the assumption they were Tonkinese and recently someone told me they were Siamese.


Did you buy them from a tonkinese breeder? If so, then I assume you have papers to prove they are tonks? As for the person that said they were Siamese, who was it? Reason I ask is not everyone knows various breeds of cats, except for the "main" ones like Siamese, Maine ****, and Persians, etc. So, the person might have just seen yuor tonks and called them the closest breed they know of to them, which is Siamese....doesn't mean they are right..


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## dmcwlvssr (Apr 24, 2005)

they are gorgeous!!!! :luv


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## Lisa 216 (Oct 25, 2004)

I'll move this to Breeding for you. Maybe one of the regulars there can help out :wink:


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## Sol (Feb 20, 2003)

I'd say Siamese because of the color. A seal mink Tonkinese would usually be darker in the color. 

These cats are seal mink (the color your cats would be if they're Tonkinese):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v691/ ... 220259.jpg
http://www.catcraze.com/images/Tonkinese.gif
http://www.pastelpetportraits.com/image ... /misha.jpg (this one is a portrait of a Tonkinese)

Where are the cats from? Have you bought them from a friend, a shelter, a rescue group or where?


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## rivernuts (Apr 12, 2006)

I bought them from a well known breeder who has an ad in Cat Fancy, I don't want to mention their name until I'm sure they aren't Tonkinese. I also purchased a pair of Tonkinese from another breeder for my parents, they're much thicker and heavier then my cats. Looking at pictures, I would say they're definitely Tonks. My cats seem lanky and have blue eyes which I'm not sure tonkinese normally have. When I first took them into the doctor to have them checked, the vet told me she didn't think they were tonkinese and when I asked the breeder about this she said pointed tonkinese have a strong resemblence to siamese, I'm not sure if this is true or not and I don't think my boy, the one that's in the 2nd picture is pointed anyways. I believed her at the time and didn't think about it much until now.


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## TxnKats (Jun 9, 2005)

Sol said:


> I'd say Siamese because of the color. A seal mink Tonkinese would usually be darker in the color.
> 
> Where are the cats from? Have you bought them from a friend, a shelter, a rescue group or where?


Actually TICA allows Pointed, Minks, and Sepias as Tonkinese, so these _could_ but Seal Point Tonks...


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## siamesecat (Jul 3, 2005)

I am in no means an expert but I thought Tonks had green or aqua blue colored eyes. Violet or dark blue seems a Siamese trait.


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## TxnKats (Jun 9, 2005)

siamesecat said:


> I am in no means an expert but I thought Tonks had green or aqua blue colored eyes. Violet or dark blue seems a Siamese trait.


Pointed Tonks would have blue eyes. Mink Tonks would have green to aqua blue.


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## dragonfire (Aug 1, 2005)

TxnKats said:


> Sol said:
> 
> 
> > I'd say Siamese because of the color. A seal mink Tonkinese would usually be darker in the color.
> ...


In that case, I'd say they look like seal point tonkinese.


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## Yazmin (Jun 9, 2007)

*Sorry to bring the subject back up again...*

Sorry to bring the subject up again, but you know what happens when you really wnat to solve a problem!!

These are def. Tonks, i have a siam myself and the face is completly different.

People who don't know there facts often get it wrong...I had my siamese called tonk before. People often think a cat with points is a siamese, as long as you have the papers they are def. Choc pointed tonkinese. I have a picture of my siamese here and the difference is quite big!


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## AddFran (Jul 10, 2004)

I vote for Tonkinese as well. But, NOT because of the face shape. The photo above demonstrates the Modern/Wedge shaped Siamese face and there are many siamese that do not have that body style. The Applehead siamese look very similar to the tonkinese.


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

This is the Classic Siamese. It is my bridge cat Precious, taken from outside the window:










The Appleheads have a bit broader face yet. They are the original Siamese cat. The wedge head is relatively new. The wedge head was developed in the 1950's -60's.


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## AddFran (Jul 10, 2004)

She certainly was Precious, Jeanie. What a beauty!


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

Thank you, Julie. She was very, very special :luv .


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## Sol (Feb 20, 2003)

*Re: Sorry to bring the subject back up again...*



Yazmin said:


> Sorry to bring the subject up again, but you know what happens when you really wnat to solve a problem!!
> 
> These are def. Tonks, i have a siam myself and the face is completly different.
> 
> People who don't know there facts often get it wrong...I had my siamese called tonk before. People often think a cat with points is a siamese, as long as you have the papers they are def. Choc pointed tonkinese. I have a picture of my siamese here and the difference is quite big!


It's not always easy to tell the difference. I breed Devon Rex and we have mink, colorpoint and sepia... even show judges have a hard time deciding what points some cats have. Just recently a "crystal clear" mink was declared sepia after a DNA test was done. Who would have thought this boy is sepia?

We've had colorpoints becoming minks and vice versa to...


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

Some Tonkinese have aqua colored eyes, but that's not a consistent trait. Some of the differences are quite subtle, and would be much easier to discern if we were able to compare the actual cats...the feel of the coat, the weight, in comparison to appearance, etc. Of course, the very fact that they are a cross between the Siamese and the Burmese in itself, regardless of appearance, makes them a different breed. 

Here's an article that will illustrate what I mean:

http://www.cfainc.org/breeds/profiles/a ... inese.html


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## Silver deer (Dec 31, 2007)

I'm really not an expert, but going off books that I've read and my friend who has two Tonks, I vote Tonks... as far as I know, because Tonks are a cross between Siamese and Burmese cats, sometimes they can show more of an inclination towards one breed than the other. So, maybe your cats look a bit more Siamese than Burmese (even though they are technically speaking, Tonks), if that makes sense. Again, I'm not an expert though 

Also, something else interesting I've read: their mixed parentage usually means no all-Tonkinese litters... in the litter there might be two Tonks, one Siamese and one Burmese (or a similar combination).

But, someone more experienced with breeding these cats might be able to confirm or correct what I've said!


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## mousehunter (Apr 7, 2007)

"A Tonk is two types of cat in one body. One mode is active, but not hyper, with a muscular body. They play fetch, climb cat trees and fly through the house at warp speed. The second mode is cuddly and loving. They are not an aloof, independent cat; they are best for someone who wants a lap cat. They are dog-like in that they require and demand attention. They love riding on shoulders and may head-butt to get your attention. "

The quote from that article describes my Leroy but he's a Saskamese.  

I wonder if the Tonks had/have the cross eyes like so many Siamese?


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

In the US, the crossed eyes are considered a fault, so there are not as many as there used to be. However, we had a great member, Petra, from Sweden, who showed her cats frequently, and one had crossed eyes. What is a "Saskamese?"  A Siamese from Canada?


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## mousehunter (Apr 7, 2007)

> What is a "Saskamese?" A Siamese from Canada?


A Siamese from Saskatchewan!....Canada.  At least that's what I call these two.


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

Mine are Paskamese, Siamese and Balinese from PA. (Pennsylvania)


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