# Need help with CKD for my Cat!



## littabk (Dec 28, 2011)

Hello friends, :sad: 
I'm sad alright, my Cat has been diagnosed with 
early stage one with Chronic Kidney Disease! 

I'm just so upset & quite overwhelmed & I have been reading at lots of web sites for Kidney disease's !

My cat is about 11 to 12 years old & until recently I have noticed an increase in water consumption & her pees are large, 3 a day.
At first I thought it was Diabetes, I took my Kally Kat to the Vet & they took urine & blood.
Next day, another Vet called me & told me she has Kidney Disease!

She then, told me I have 2 cans of prescription diets, one is Hills K/D with chicken & the other was Royal C. R/F low protein.
She said to give her a 1/2 can a day with a 1/4 a cup of the Dry NF Purina foods.
Vet said to follow - up in a 2 month visit!
Since I have not been told much, at the time of the visit I feel all alone left wonderin what to do!

Okay, what I need to know & would appreciate any help from another member here that has a cat with this Kidney Illness too!

I do not like those ingredients in those foods wet or dry. 
I would like to know if I can give her a more natural healthy diet such as
Premade Raw freeze dried foods in those pouches that you rehydrate with warm water.

I have fed Kally Kat for the past 6 years all grain - free wet & some, very little grain - free dry like FROMMS!

I need support & I want to do the right thing in regards to her overall health!

Thank you!

Purrs ♥Kally Kat♥


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Wow, that's rough to hear for you about your kitty...
There's a lot of information here on the forum about CKD...
Quite a few owners are dealing with this, so don't feel alone...there is help here.


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## lilasmom (Jul 1, 2013)

I am not experienced in this, but shouldn't she be off dry food completely?


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## westfayetteville (Sep 22, 2011)

I don't think he should be on dry food either, Here is a site you can check out and join the fourm 
Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease - Everything You Need to Know to Help Your Cat
TANYA'S
COMPREHENSIVE GUIDE TO
FELINE CHRONIC KIDNEY DISEASE​


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## BarbH (Aug 27, 2013)

Hello and welcome to the forum. I was standing in your shoes last week myself when I found out that Riley my 13 year old guy had CKD. I understand the worry and the shock, I spent a good part of last week in tears. As suggested Tonya's site is a good place to get information from. Do you have a copy of the numbers from the blood work? If so posting those numberswill help with giving advice. The biggest thing is that you want to make sure that your cat is eating. I myself am still learning about this disease, but sending hugs your way and know that you are not alone.


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## laurief (Jun 22, 2008)

I've been taking care of CKD cats in my feline family for decades. I currently have at least three of them. This is such a common condition in elderly felines that I, personally, believe all domestic felines will develop CKD if they live long enough. All biological body systems lose efficiency as they age. In felines, the first system to start losing efficiency and function seems to often be the kidneys. This happens so frequently that I don't consider this a disease. In my mind, CKD stands for chronic kidney deterioration. But it doesn't really matter what we call it. What matters is what we do about it, and there is MUCH that can be done to manage this condition. 

So don't panic. Your job now is to become a student of CKD, because the more you learn about it, the better prepared you will be to manage Kally Kat's needs. To that end, the link westfayetteville provided above is THE ultimate resource of CKD information. The very large community of online CKD caretakers consider that site to be our Bible. Visit the site, read as much of it as you can before your brain explodes, bookmark it, and go back and read it again and again and again. As I said, I've been dealing with CKD for decades, and I still find myself referring back to Tanya's site several times a week to refresh old knowledge and learn new information. It will all be very overwhelming for you at first, I know, but the more you read, the more of it will sink in over time. It's a very steep learning curve, and you certainly don't need to learn all of it at once (as if that would even be possible). Just let the info wash over you. You'll absorb a little more of it every time you visit Tanya's.

As far as discussing Kally Kat is concerned, we need to see her current blood test results in order to get a handle on her current condition. If you have a hard copy of her lab report, please post it on this thread. Include ALL blood values (not just the ones outside of the lab's reference ranges). When posting the results, be sure to include the reference ranges like so:

creatinine 2.7 (0.6-2.1)
BUN 49 (13-36)
etc.

It's important to include the reference ranges because those will vary somewhat from lab to lab. It's important to include ALL blood values because some values (like phosphorus and potassium) can be problematic for CKD cats even when they are within the reference ranges.

If you don't have a copy of the lab results, go back to your vet and get them. You should ALWAYS obtain and keep copies of ALL lab and test results on your animals. This is especially true when managing a chronic condition like CKD.

Once you've posted Kally Kat's lab results here, I'll be able to provide more specific insights and suggestions regarding her condition.

Laurie


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## littabk (Dec 28, 2011)

*Thank you friends!*

Kally Kat's Mom here! September 8, 2013

Thank you all so very much for your love, time & support! 
Sure does help & assures me that I should not panic, BUT 
Walk, to the next step! 

I have gone to Tanya's website Guide to CKD /CKF /CRF



Kally Kat has stage one & Vet says, Kidney Disease, not in renal yet! ) ;

I am having troubles with scanning my result of page 1, so
I can at least type here what the BUN & CREATININE

Thank you to all your great responses!

7cats2dogs, Your support is very reassuring, thank you!

Lilasmom, 
Kally Kat's day feeding is mostly & almost 
All wet, grain- free! 

I only give her ½ Tablespoon of grain – free FROMMS
Early upon arising at 7 am.
I'm trying to get her all wet foods, as I know dry kibbles no matter how grain – free & even the best made premium foods are not for Cats with Kidney disease. 

**This is for all of you, wonderful ladies to read**

Kally Kat's regular Vet was not on duty that day! 

Very next day another Vet called me to tell me the news & talk about her new script diets, had her new prescription diet ready for me to pick up.

Would you believe she gave me a 6 lb bag of DRY, Purina N/F ?
I was not even gonna go there, it went back the next day & I had to buy the Hills Prescription 5oz. can of K/D Chicken. 

I was told by some friends at another Pet Social Networking site that she doesn't have to eat any of the Hills K/D canned. 

I don't have time to make food from scratch as I'm a family caregiver for an elderly family member, & I am so exhausted & don't have enough hours in a day!

Westfayetteville,
Thank you! This is the best & complete site I have ever gone too!

TANYA'S

COMPREHENSIVE GUIDE TO​
FELINE CHRONIC KIDNEY DISEASE




I have been going there a litta each day to better understand all!
Also, there are so many more out there to read, like,
Feline CRF Information Center - Reception Desk

Feline Outreach - Education - Kidney Disease

BarbH,
Thank you for your warm support in regards to how us Mom Cats feel when our furrkids get ill & feel helpless until we find a nice place here to get lots of support & great information! 

Laurief,
As you know the levels & #'s are very important!
This is all I could give you for now, until I get find out why my scanner isn't working.
I may call my neighbors down the hall for help!

So, at least you have a litta more info.

Creatinine 2.6 (H) 0.8-2.3 
BUN is 51 (H) 15 - 34 

PHOSPHORUS is 5.0 (H) 3. 0-7.0 

URINALYSIS: Color Yellow no crystals!

I went to PETCO today to request to speak to the Store manager,
She is a very smart & well informed team member.
I told her that my Cat was diagnosis with CKD & I need help with looking for a low Protein, but of good quality, low Phosphorous & Ash.

She then said, wait a few minutes & I'll be back!

Oh my Catness, she showed me at least 5 variety's of grain – free canned foods low protein, low phosphorous & ash. 
She did however, say to me talk to your Vet, I can only show you what is available for the lowest protein we have. 

She then went into my cart & took out the ones that were too high. :-? Which were the Nature's Variety instincts canned.

Foods that's lower in protein, but still not the lowest!

Natural Balance Chicken & Green Pea, Turkey, Duck & Venison. 
Nature's Variety's Natural Pride Rabbit, Kally Loves Rabbit!
Wellness Signature, chicken,
Blue Wilderness Chicken & Turkey,
Indoor FREEDOM by, Blue Buffalo!

NO SEAFOOD AT ALL!

I will go to those websites to see if there is anymore info as some don't say what the Phosphorous listed! 

I told I do not like what's in those scripts food, they may be low in Protein & Phosphorus, Ash, but the rest is horrible IMO!

Please forgive me for such a lengthy reply, but I wanted to share with you all, what I have been busy doing what a Mom Cat does for her furrbaby!

Its late juss now, I will be back soon, as I'm anxious to hear what you all have to say & feel!

I cried today, as I'm so worried for my litta Kally Kat, she is just so sweet & affectionate, Part Maine **** & talks with her paws!

Nite nite, sleep well, :cat3
Purrs ♥Kally Kat♥ 

Next up will be on, 

Phosphorous Binders.
Supplements for Kidney support & more!​


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## laurief (Jun 22, 2008)

3littaB said:


> Kally Kat has stage one & Vet says, Kidney Disease, not in renal yet! ) ;


Actually, the creat value you provided indicates that Kally Kat is in IRIS Stage 2, though that assignment may be inaccurate if KK was at all dehydrated at the time her blood was drawn for the test. Please type out and provide the following values from her current lab report: potassium (K+), sodium (Na+), total protein (TP), calcium (Ca++), and hematocrit (HCT) or packed cell volume (PCV).

Kidney and renal are the same thing. This condition used to be commonly referred to as Chronic Renal Failure (CRF). Now it is becoming more commonly referred to as Chronic Kidney Disease (CKD). It is also referred to as Renal Insufficiency. They're all the same thing.



> I'm trying to get her all wet foods, as I know dry kibbles no matter how grain – free & even the best made premium foods are not for Cats with Kidney disease.


CKD frequently causes inappetance in cats, so keeping a CKD cat eating is typically the #1 priority. Unfortunately, renal prescription diets are unpalatable to many cats (none of my CKD cats have ever been willing to touch a prescription renal diet). Even if a prescription diet is advisable for a specific CKD cat, it's of absolutely no use if the cat won't eat it. 

There is also considerable debate about whether a protein-restricted diet is in the best interest of early-stage CKD cats. Many people, myself included, now believe that reducing protein in earlier stages of CKD can seriously weaken these cats overall, and that low-protein diets should be reserved for cats in late stage CKD.

There is no debate, however, about the value of reducing dietary phosphorus for CKD cats in any stage. If the cat will eat low-phos foods, that's what should be fed.

And so, we come to the Golden Rule of feeding CKD cats ... If the cat won't eat what you ideally want her to eat, feed her whatever she WILL eat! If that includes kibble, high protein, or even high phos foods, so be it. If it's a choice between those undesirable foods and watching my CKD cat starve herself to death, you better bet I'll be letting her eat whatever she wants.



> As you know the levels & #'s are very important!


I do know that, though some are a lot more critical than others. There is an adage that you will commonly encounter among CKD caretakers, "Treat the cat, not the numbers." Some caretakers become so obsessed with the numbers that they focus on getting the numbers where they want them, rather than on the overall physical and mental health of the cat. The goal is always to maintain the best possible overall health and quality of life for the cat. Don't let the numbers make you crazy.



> URINALYSIS: Color Yellow no crystals!


What is the urine specific gravity (USG)?

Laurie


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## littabk (Dec 28, 2011)

*Kally Kat's more values*

:2kitties Hello Laurie,


You asked me for these & I went to my WORD document to type there & paste in this message area.


potassium (K+), sodium (Na+), total protein (TP), calcium (Ca++), and hematocrit (HCT) or packed cell volume (PCV).

Senior Screen:

Potassium 4.7 3. 9 – 5. 3 
Sodium 154 147 – 156
Total Protein 7.4 5. 9 – 8. 5
Calcium 10. 3 8.2- 11. 8
(HCT) 39.5 29 – 45 

What is the urine specific gravity (USG)?
1 .017
PH is 6. 0

I looked for the 
Packed cell volume (PCV). Not sure, I tried to find it's location..

Hope this answers your additional information!

I have a follow – up for Kally Kat in October 2nd with her regular Vet Dr. S
She is warm, friendly & explains in layman terms what's going on!


I need answers from her & have all my notes in my documents to ask her what I need help with!

Thank you Laurie.

Kally Kat♥♥


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## laurief (Jun 22, 2008)

HCT and PCV are essentially the same, so you're only going to find one OR the other in her bloodwork - not both. Her sodium toward the top of the reference range may point to her being a little dehydrated, which can elevate creatinine. Her USG is also slightly higher than typical for a CKD cat. It wouldn't surprise me if her creat came back down into the reference range if you increase her hydration by mixing warm water into her canned food every day. Phosphorus should also come down if you choose foods with lower phos contents. In case you haven't seen the food charts yet, you can find them here:

Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease- Canned Food Data USA

Laurie


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## littabk (Dec 28, 2011)

*Kally Kat's CKD*

Thank you laurief, 

Tanya's web site is fantastic, I go there a litta each day to learn.

I booked an appt. with her regular Vet Dr. S 
She's very warm & caring as I didn't have her when I brought Kally Kat in that day of urgency!

I'm still giving her the Hills k/d Chicken at 
1½ Tablespoon + only ½ tablespoon of her current food. 
I have been adding water to all her wet foods!

I do not like the ingredients at all, but if she eats the lower protein & phosphorous in the Hills k/d then, we will see how she is in 
October 2nd for her follow - up visit!

It's not easy to find Quality low Protein & low phosphorous foods for kidney support & such;
I do go to specialty Pet food stores, but now, I'm not sure?

I will be touch with you & all the very nice members here!

I'm just so thankful I have a very nice caring site here at 
Cat Forum! 
:blackcat
Thank you Laurie!
xoxoxo


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## laurief (Jun 22, 2008)

3littaB said:


> I'm still giving her the Hills k/d Chicken at *
> 1½ *Tablespoon + only *½ *tablespoon of her current food.


What are you feeding her in addition to this? 2 tbs of food a day is a starvation diet. She should be fed as much as she'll eat, as many times a day as possible.

Laurie


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## littabk (Dec 28, 2011)

*Kally is eating !*



laurief said:


> What are you feeding her in addition to this? 2 tbs of food a day is a starvation diet. She should be fed as much as she'll eat, as many times a day as possible.
> 
> Laurie


Hello Laurie,
I feed Kally Kat 2 full TB of canned wet foods with water added, each meal about 4 times a day. 

All in all it's at least 8TB a day, she does well eating smaller meals at a time!
Now, this is the 4th week she's been on the Hill K/D, so I have upped the amount of the K/D & lower the regular grain - free that she was eating.

It's 1½ of Hills K/D & ½ a TB of her regular meals, mostly chicken, she loves chicken & rabbit from Nature's Variety Cat's Pride & eats 4 times a say at 8TB of food a day!

How old or new is Tanya's food comparison to date?

When I see Kally Kat's Vet on October the 2nd I will ask her more in depth, of what can I expect to see down the road for this CKD...

I people telling me that egg whites are good phos binders, Slippery Elm Bark, Milk thistle & also, Kidney support in a powder form to put in her foods like I do with her L - lysine powder 500 mg a day for her Calicivirus & URI..

I know that her Vet is a conventional & I can not go 5 towns away to her original Vet practices in total holistic Veterinary Hospital!

I keep going back to Tanya's site & some other CKD chronic Kidney Illness's 

I am new at this & I want to make sure I give her the very best care I can from learning from other Mom cats who knows!

Liz & ♥Kally Kat♥:blackcat


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## laurief (Jun 22, 2008)

3littaB said:


> I feed Kally Kat 2 full TB of canned wet foods with water added, each meal about 4 times a day.
> 
> All in all it's at least 8TB a day


You should be feeding her 5-6 oz of canned food a day - maybe even more if she's eating a lot of the low-protein K/D, because she won't be receiving as much protein from that as her body needs.



> How old or new is Tanya's food comparison to date?


I don't know, but you could email Helen, the owner of that site, and ask her.



> When I see Kally Kat's Vet on October the 2nd I will ask her more in depth, of what can I expect to see down the road for this CKD...


This varies a great deal from cat to cat. That's one of the things that makes CKD such a challenging condition to manage. If you continue to read Tanya's site, you'll become acquainted with all of the possible symptoms and associated conditions that may (or may not) occur with CKD. One thing you can pretty much count on needing to learn as your cat's CKD progresses is the skill of administering subQ fluids at home.



> I people telling me that egg whites are good phos binders


,

As far as I know, the only indication that egg whites might help lower phos was from a human study. I don't know of any study of egg whites and their effect on serum phos in cats. Egg whites, however, are an excellent source of low-phos, highly digestible, biologic protein. A cooked egg white or two a day, mixed into your cat's other food, might be very beneficial to her.

If you are feeding primarily K/D, it's unlikely that you need a phos binder, esp. since your cat's serum phos is still under 6.0.



> Slippery Elm Bark


This can be very helpful for a variety of digestive issues, but you need to separate it from any other supplements or meds by a couple of hours. Otherwise, it may interfere with their absorption from the gut.



> , Milk thistle


As far as I know, milk thistle is used to support the liver, not the kidneys.



> Kidney support


I'm not familiar with Kidney Support.

I can tell you, though, that you should resist the temptation to throw everything but the kitchen sink into your cat's management regimen. Remember that much of what you put in your cat's mouth ends up traveling through her kidneys, and compromised kidneys are easily overwhelmed. Don't give her anything that doesn't serve an immediate and necessary purpose. Even when you do give her something, always make sure that the potential benefits outweigh the potential risks.

Laurie


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