# DESPERATE... natures miracle isnt a miracle....what do i do?



## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

Ok, so the area that one of the cats had been pooping (whihc is normal looking, regular old brown, no blood or puss or anything seeable of that nature) has been treated with natures miracle. we put a spray nozzle on it and gave it a good coating - the entire thing, since i wasnt taking any chances.

we were ok for a few days, but it just happened again last night.

what are the odds that the vet could find something wrong if both cats (even if its not who we suspect) are acting perfectly themselves?? The kids havent even been over between last time and now. maybe it had been just a coincidence before... kidswise

they both get plenty of attention, boo will play but bubs couldnt really care less unless its a catnip toy (but this has been his opinion all along.)

Would professionally cleaning the carpet top to bottom front and back do anything at all??

of course my mom wont part with the thing (THING) because it 'completes the room', i dont have much faith in cleaning it.... i suggested a vet visit but when they find nothing wrong...

what the heck else can we do???

i can NOT get rid of my cats. as i have no human kids i am FAR FAR too attached to my cats. dad is gone, max is gone, i just can not take any more!!!!!

What can we do???

ETA: if one of them is sick, wouldnt they be crying out in pain by now? including downstairs its been going on for a good few months


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

I usually advise people that when their cats who have previously used the litterboxes with no problems begin to eliminate inapropriately ... it means the cat is having a problem and that gesture is the only way they have of letting us know about it. At that point, it becomes detective work to track down what the exact cause is: medical, physiological, environment, relationship or just bat-crap-crazy. _Okay, not the last one, I just threw that in there for a laugh!_

Here is my go-to-list for the process of elimination (Ha! A pun!) used in reference for UTI but some of them are still good catalysts to check against a pooper happening outside the box.

Is the cat spayed/neutered?_...unaltered cats can develop UTIs due to hormonal changes from instinctual mating behavior..._
Has the home been stressful for the cat? _...cats can develop UTIs due to stress..._
Does the cat like the litterbox? _...open-tray, hooded, deep enough litter, large enough box..._
Does the cat like the location of the litterbox? _...is it in a quiet area, low traffic and no sudden noises..._
Does the cat like the litter used? _...some cats prefer different litters..._
Does the cat approve of how clean the litterbox is kept for it? _...many cats will refuse to use 'dirty', and especially *smelly* litterboxes..._
Are the litterboxes arranged in such a manner as they cannot become a trap? ... _some multi cat households can have a problem with another cat either guarding the LBs or waiting to ambush a cat exiting a LB in an effort to play_

I also wanted to comment about the use and application of NM, you have to really SOAK the area and let it air-dry to give the enzymes time to work. I turn the nozzle to stream, not spray. I want that enzymatic-liquid to penetrate all fibers and reach all odor-causing bacteria. Spray tends to stay on top and not really penetrate or soak the area well enough, especially with carpet, and the enzymes stop working when the product dries so soak-it-soak-it-soak-it!


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

what about for poop though, just poop? does it still need to be absolutely soaked??


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

If it wasn't runny, it doesn't need to be squirted deep into the fibers but it *does* need to be wet enough to stay wet long enough to give the enzymes time to work. Maybe you could spray it really well and then lay a wet washcloth (_white, so no color can transfer_) over it to help it stay damp longer.


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

would spraying several times do the same thing??


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## KatBudz (Jun 18, 2009)

Are you using the Just For Cats NM? Because I think that was created specifically for urine. I have another NM in an orange bottle that has double the oxygen and an orange scent. It can be used on several different pet stains including urine, feces, vomit, etc.


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

i do have the for cats one, but it does day urine and feces on the bottle.

So far new actions taken are:

-Sprayed the newest spot with NM
-Bought 2 new citrus air fresheners and placed them directly where they were going (we read that cats hate citrus smells)
-Cleaned out the older litterbox (completely emptied out, scrubbed with water, dried, and all fresh litter inside)
-Bought an air tight pail to put the waste in, since we now pay even for grocery bags, so i will tie them off and untie to use them until they are decently full - the pail is to keep that bag in, to be free of smells.
-Litter will be scooped every night just before bed.

If the litters was/is the issue, i have no idea why cats would suddenly become so picky?? we used to have one box between the 2 of them that was scooped every 3 days if they were lucky... with no accidents besides simba getting crystals. Now its like even if theres one other poop already they wont go in it again. (im exaggerating a tiny bit but, not much!)

We still have the litter box lid for the first/older box. We stopped using it because the entire reason we had the lid was because the dog would go in there and snack otherwise. Since hes not around anymore, and it seems easier for simba, we just have 2 with no lids. would putting the lid back on the one do any good at all?? although i have a feeling they may both just go in the easier, no lid one. When there was a lid and i would clean it, they would both rush down to go while the lid was off, just after i emptied it.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

Spraying several times is sometimes necessary but generally if you give it a good enough soaking it allows the enzymes plenty of time to do their work whereas a mist would dry fairly rapidly.

Are both L'boxes in the same area?
How far away from the L'boxes are the poops deposited?
Can you add another L'box in a different part of the house?
_...could this be an issue of privacy and accessibility or a kitty hanging their butt over the edge?_ 
How deep do you keep the litter in the L'boxes?
How big/small are their L'boxes?
_...perhaps they want more material to bury waste in and/or a larger area for waste disposal._

_I do the bucket-thing for cat waste, too._


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

it just happened again!!!!

Location - opposite floors of the house
location of boxes - furnace room
litter about 3 inches deep

we are trying vinegar now on the carpet. with the hardwood underneath, cant soak the area since it can ruin the floors.

maybe tonight ill put towels under the carpet and give it ****. weve done this before. it stopped after so many applications of vinegar/baking soda. they seemed to get hte message before.

I can try moving one box to the other endo f the room??
right now they are right next to each other, but theyre never in there at the same time/fighting that i know of...


just now is the first time during the day though.... this morning was nothing. theyre getting braver... not a good sign


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

May I suggest placing a L'box upstairs? 
_I know that solution is probably not ideal, but if it works, I'm sure it is better than having poop on the floor._
Can you give it a try?


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## Loves-her-girls (Jul 29, 2010)

You said something about kids in the original post coming when it happened. How old are the "Kids". This is what you said:
The kids havent even been over between last time and now. maybe it had been just a coincidence before... kidswise

Do you think they miss the kids? I'm new to the forum so I might be missing half the story so sorry if that is the case.
My Samantha would go outside the box if life was not the same. Meaning with me and my husband. She would sense something & being the neurotic person I am, I would play out everything that happened prior and after her "mistake". I don't have children at 37 so Samantha was it for me, and I made sure her life was life of a princess. I hope you figure out whats going on with the poop mistakes.


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

Vetswise it would probably be useless. The poo is totally healthy looking. There would surely be signs of discomfort by now if that was it. That will be a last resort.


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

in case we ever catch the suspect, does anyone have any tips on disciplining cats?? Like, with dogs, you put their face in it, put them outside, adn they get the message. usually with a tap under their jaw to get their attention, and an angry tone. by a man is even better.

cats are more able to be scared of you, or pee there/mess more out of like, revenge almost. and cat pee is damaging. at least *thank god* *touching wood* poo is just a physical solid mess you can pick up and its 'cleaned' as far as mess, its their sense of smell and smelling themselves and their scent you must worry about. pee you can smell and never stop smelling.


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## KatBudz (Jun 18, 2009)

I do have one suggestion that might work, not sure if someone already said this. But after some time, plastic litter boxes are penetrated with the smell of urine and feces from scratches on the plastic when the cats go in them. My older cat is *VERY* picky about her litterboxes, and if she doesnt like how it smells or if there isnt enough litter, or if I dont scoop it twice a day, no joke, she will go pee on my sisters bed. I had a huge issue with her for two months this summer where she would only urinate on my sister bed. I tried everything but nothing seemed to help. I was using Worlds Best cat litter, but then as one last resort (which I cant believe I didnt think of earlier!) I got three new litter boxes, washed and dried them, and filled one box with Dr. Elsey's Cat Attract clay litter. I really didnt want to go back to clay litter but it was the last thing I could think of. I took my older cat, locked her into my bedroom where I had that litter box, stood outside the door to listen if she would use it, and no joke, withing 5 minutes she took the biggest pee I have ever seen. She would hold her pee in for so long because she didnt actually want to pee on my sisters bed, but she thought she had to since she didnt like the litter. So now I keep the LB in my room filled with the Cat Attract litter. Then for my other two litterboxes I have the Worlds Best and Swheat Scoop. And I find my younger cat no longer likes the Worlds Best anymore either and will only use the Swheat Scoop and the Cat Attract. Anyway, long story short, try getting new, and big litter boxes and clean them to get any pet store smell off with a mild soap like palmolive, and fill it with new litter, even try a different brand to see if they just had a problem with the one your using. Honestly though, I would really try the cat attract, it really does work. I was about to put my older cat on kitty prozac because the peeing outside the box was so bad. Hope this helped! 

Edit: Personally I wouldnt discipline the cat, because it could stress them out/make them angry and they may continue to go outside the box.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

Claiken said:


> in case we ever catch the suspect, does anyone have any tips on disciplining cats?? Like, with dogs, you put their face in it, put them outside, adn they get the message. usually with a tap under their jaw to get their attention, and an angry tone. by a man is even better.
> cats are more able to be scared of you...


 PLEASE do not disicpline your kitty in any manner resembling that way of disciplining dogs. That method really isn't very effective when training dogs and it has a completely opposite effect on cats; dogs will cower and try to win back your good favor ... a cat will learn you cannot be trusted to be consistent and fair. All disciplining a cat in that manner will do is cause it to become frightened of and/or avoid the people in its' home. This will create stress for the cat and stress is not conducive to solving any issues the cat is having.

Try new litterboxes, new/different litter materials and place one litterbox w/ clumping upstairs near where you have found the poop.
Good luck!


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## Chieftain (Jul 1, 2010)

I just had a similar problem and all I can say it was my fault. I tried a new litter and he didn't like it, so he peed on my recliner. I tried using Nature's Miracle too and it didn't quite do it. I'm trying a carpet/fabric cleaner with "Oxygen power" thing so I'll let you know if that does anything.

And if you know anyone using that type of training method, tell them they might as well stop because all they show the dog is to fear them. They will know something is wrong but the dog does not have that kinda smarts to know that that poop coming out of his behind is what it was.


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

I wasnt saying i would discipline them the same way as a dog, i was just asking how should i? Boo and simba are our first cats, theres never been any discipline issues before, so we are really not sure. (one of the boxes ive tried moving to smack dab in the middle of the furnace room - it really is the quietest/lowest traffic room in the house for them) I tried that in case theyve ever had a fighting issue so they dont feel stuck. The other is in the same area they were in, but i moved it to the middle so they are both more 'open' feeling. THe one that was moved a bit may feel like a new adventure. lol.i just cleaned them and there was one pee in oen, and one poo in the other. Is that enough for all day? since last night at about 1am?

We also still have the citrus (i keep wanting to type circus) fresheners on the spots. and last night and tonight i used NM figuring some is better than none, even if it only acts as another deterrant. i worked it in with my fingers too. so its not completely soaked, but wetter than before. last night/this morning there was nothing, and we are still clear now. im just scared for tomorrow morning.... :S ...one of them hasnt pooped all day.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

Claiken said:


> I wasnt saying i would discipline them the same way as a dog, i was just asking how should i? Boo and simba are our first cats, theres never been any discipline issues before, so we are really not sure.


Whoops!  My bad for misunderstanding. I'm sorry. 

IMO, there really is no way to discipline a cat. Not unless you catch them IN the act and can halt the behavior right there and firmly (_not scary_) *redirect* it to something more appropriate. 
The thing to remember is: Make the right thing easy and the wrong thing difficult. 
Cats 'train' us the same way: 
If we provide them with what they want, like and need ... they generally behave unless there are mitigating circumstances like stress, medical or environmental issues causing problems they cannot control. 
If we do not provide those things ... they do things we do not want them to do ... but when we do make the necessary changes to please them, everything goes back to normal or acceptable. 
That is how they make the wrong thing difficult and the right thing easy for us. It is when we do not listen to their needs, or provide for those needs, that problems arise.

If we always begin by making the right thing easy and the wrong thing difficult ... everything usually goes along much smoother with fewer hiccups, bumps or derailments. 
I know it seems unfair that we have to make so many adjustments for them when they are living in our homes ... but *we* are the species that can understand and consciously make changes, because we can reason why we need to do so. Animals are driven by instincts and habits that are very difficult to change. It is generally impossible to alter instinctive behaviors, though we can sometimes modify them a little to suit our needs. That is where we have to do detective work and apply some compromise to make the human-cat relationship work well together.
h =^..^=


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## icatguy (May 15, 2010)

Claiken said:


> we are trying vinegar now on the carpet. with the hardwood underneath, cant soak the area since it can ruin the floors.


Surprise, surprise, but the URINE has already soaked through and ruined the floor.

When you redo the floors, if you decide to go with carpet again, there's a new type of carpet pad which prevents liquids from soaking through to the under flooring. One of the brand names is, if I remember right, "Spill-Proof", but I wouldn't be surprised if every major carpet name has a liquid-resistant or liquid-proof carpet mat.

Nature's Miracle can't work if it can't get to ALL the urine.

The vinegar might make it smell better to you, but the cats can still smell the urine if it's not 100% gone.

PS - nice post, Heidi. When ya gonna write a book?


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

icatguy said:


> PS - nice post, Heidi. When ya gonna write a book?


Awwww, shucks!  *_scuffs toe along the carpet_*
I wouldn't know where to begin to write a book. I know a lot about animal behavior based on personal experience, observation, education and research but I am far from being an expert. I am content sharing what I know with people who want to listen. I can't make anyone learn, but I hope I can explain things to help people see the situations they find themselves with their pets in, in a different manner so both parties benefit from the insight.

_I don't think Claiken's problem is pee, it is poo on top of the carpet fibers._


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## icatguy (May 15, 2010)

Sorry, you're right, I thought it was about both. 

I like the way you explain things .... clear and easy to understand the issues without obfuscating them.


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

even with all of the steps taken, it happened again today.

the door to that room was shut all night, mom opened it, and an hour later there was poop. so, whoever it was purposely waited until that door was open. but they know the litter exists and WILL use it because they have both been peeing in them.

Would a complete cleaning and disinfecting of that carpet do any good at all? truthfully??

it seems like every other situation i read, cat acts out once, NM used, cat back to normal.

WHY is this so difficult???

absolutely nothing abnormal healthwise... no food change... no environment change... until this started happening no people change.... what do they have to be so upset about?

OR is it the total opposite now, that theyre just smelling themselves and going off of that??? is that at all possible???

honestly right now it just feels like we are slowing down the process of getting rid of one or both, and i just cant take it.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

atback Give it some time, it is hard to figure out what our cats are doing and why, but given enough time and effort ... we can usually figure it out and resolve it.

Give the carpet a good cleaning. Keep the door closed. When you re-open the door after the carpet it dried ... IF the poop is always in the same place on the carpet, try laying down a carpet-protector mat like for computer chairs. It will protect the carpet and make an easier to clean surface.

Do you have a litterbox on both floors of the home?


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

is it a good sign if the poops are always in the same general areas? Could that mean its smell related?? we have the citrus fresheners on the spots, but could their own smell be taking over still??

im half tempted to buy a cheap lousy carpet and put the fibers in the litterboxes..


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

Well, I'm sure having them in the same area is good from a clean-up standpoint. I can't imagine it is odor drawing them back since it seems you've cleaned it very well. I'd guess it is habit, now. 
What is it about that area that they like to go in?
Can you place a litterbox there?




Claiken said:


> im half tempted to buy a cheap lousy carpet and put the fibers in the litterboxes..


You know ... this isn't the half-crocked idea it first sounds like ... 8O Someone *did* solve their litterbox issue by giving their cat a litterbox with a few flat sheets of newspaper in the bottom, no litter. That *cured* her cat's issue.


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

Ive been thinking, trying to determine possible causes for it. 

it could be:
- smelling themselves there
- habit htey need to get rid of
- location of boxes (but one has changed recently)
- painful BM, but wouldnt whichever cat act strangely, or cry out in pain when they did go outside of the box? wouldnt they choose different spots in the house to go, since if it hurt in the litter and hteyre scared of it, it would hurt in that new spot too and then theyd be scared of that too. (so im wanting to rule out this option).

our litters have always been slightly varying between purchases. i buy the unscented clumping normally (whichever no name company was available at that particular store), but before any issues, if i was running short and it had been 2 or 3 days (what they _were_ used to and completely fine with), i would borrow some from the neighbour to top off, which they buy the unclumping kind. they were fine with that too. the only stuff they flat out refused to goin is that vet newspaper stuff, the little sticks of compressed paper. thats our only issue ever, in which case we mixed in some unscented clumping, and they went in it just fine.

so if fear doesnt make sense and diet hasnt changed, and theyre both acting healthy... what else do you suspect?

im hoping maybe because we couldnt soak the carpet completely yet (its an area rug, that we plan to lift up and soak in another room with a cement floor) that they may still smell themselves on it and are drawn to re-go there. but theres still the question of what could have caused it the first time? could someone get newly picky about how clean its kept?

Another question - is it normal for a cat not to go all day? I cleaned the litter about 1pm, and theres still nothing in it at about 11:15pm, from either cat. normal?


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

just thinking of something else. including when it was happening downstairs, it has been happening for a long time. quite a long time. if something wasnt medically right, whoever would be VERY sick by now. puking instead of pooping or something.

i was just wondering though if it does happen to be a fear issue, is closing that door (where theyre going but shouldnt) still a good idea?


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

Claiken said:


> - painful BM, but wouldnt whichever cat act strangely, or cry out in pain when they did go outside of the box? wouldnt they choose different spots in the house to go, since if it hurt in the litter and hteyre scared of it, it would hurt in that new spot too and then theyd be scared of that too. (so im wanting to rule out this option).


See ... I agree with you here, and this is what has me so stumped! If there is a problem there is usually *something* we can pinpoint as the determining factor ... and there just doesn't appear to BE one with your kitties!

Is the poo in a corner? Middle of the room? Near a piece of furniture or a wall? I jsut can't figure out what it would be that is attracting them, and I *would* expect if pain was an issue that they *would* start to go in other areas, trying to find that one place where it *didn't* hurt them to go.




Claiken said:


> Another question - is it normal for a cat not to go all day? I cleaned the litter about 1pm, and theres still nothing in it at about 11:15pm, from either cat. normal?


Depends ... but I'm inclined to lean towards 'not normal'. 
Someone here recently asked how many times a day their cat *should* go to the bathroom. Since I have 9 adult cats separate from 5 kittens, I felt I could gather a good 'sample' and create a fairly 'true' rough average.
My results turned out that ALL cats/kitts did 1 poo each in a 24hr period. This tells me they are utilizing their food efficiently. The Adults cats pee'd about 3x/day and the Kitts pee'd smaller clumps, about 4x/day.
_My horses .... I never tracked pee, but through 4 different horses, all pooped about 14x/day, so just under every 2hrs they were pooping._ I would expect the kitties to have one BM about the same time every day and to pee roughly 8hrs apart for adults and 6hrs apart for kitts. In 12hrs, your litterboxes should have around 4 pee clumps and possibly 1-2 poos ... depending on what time of day they usually have a BM, but 2 poos and around 6-8 pee-clumps for your two kitties.


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

appetite is definately no issue here either. simba LOVES to eat, and still does. Boo isnt as hooverish, but she eats her fair share (since they eat near us ive kept a close eye).

But pee wise, would being on a part dry diet make a difference in frequency?


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## catloverami (Jul 5, 2010)

I hadn't read this thread before, so am late to comment. Have a couple of suggestions. What do you do with the poop? Do you throw it in the toilet or put it in the nearest litter box? Could be that Boo (is it Boo who's pooping on the carpet?) despite all your efforts to clean the area, is still able to smell his scent. I would put all his poops in the litter box closest to the area he is soiling, and just lightly cover them. That will put some of his scent in the box. Bar any access to the area where he's pooping. 

The other thing I want to comment on is whether you are or are not showing any annoyance or anger at his inappropriate elimination, or when you have to clean up the mess. Cats are sensitive to emotions, and perhaps he is picking up on negativity. Another suggestion might be considered "out in left field", but have you had "a talk" with him about his pooping on the carpet? Think in pictures as you talk to him that you're disppointed that he's going on the carpet and you really would like him to do his business in the litter box as it would make you really happy and not mad at him. It sounds crazy, but when I changed to a different kind of litter recently, my girl after a couple of weeks refused to cover her poop, and even when I went back to the clumping litter, she still refused to cover. After I had "a talk" with her about it, she's been consistent in covering it up. So I think it's worth a try.


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

Ive just been flushing it. Since they are *thankfully* consistently peeing in the box, both scents are in there. And since its opposite floors im not sure they would connect the 2 things? im guesing they wouldnt actually know its their same poop. (we have had the door shut now for 2 days and 1 night). There has been some poop in the boxes, but it is really hard to tell whos is whos. even when its in the room its hard to tell.

Simba was eager to get in the room today, but thats not really a sign because hes always eager to get into closed off places. he 'must know' what is going on at all times. lol. (unless sleeping, then he doesnt care)

we of course get frusterated when the room is open and we do find a mess, but ive been trying my best (and since im attached its easy) to treat them the same. 

They seem the same towards me too.

i read theres an air freshener with pheremones in it thats supposed to make them more comfortable near the litters. But i was confused because i thought that meant the smells that make people.... **happy** if you catch my drift. lol. the cat attract litter was a thought too but i dont know where to find it... ive never seen it, they may not have it in canada.

so, there hasnt been any new issues *but* there hasnt been access to that room either. so... it likely owuld happen again given the chance. which makes me think... scent? still being there?? 

surely by now, someone would be whining at the door desperate to get in there and go, even if we are watching, if they felt that was the *only* place they felt safe going. 

At the very first sign of it being upstairs, i thought for sure whoever it was wanted our attention. maybe the door being shut is a sign that theyve got out attention?


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## catloverami (Jul 5, 2010)

You're wondering about the _Cat Attract_ litter if it's available in Canada? go to Precious Cat Litters - Quality Cat Litter I haven't needed to use it, but have heard good reports from others who have. As to the pheromone stuff, _Feliway _I haven't used either, but have heard that it works for some cats and not at all for others, so mixed reviews on that one. So how are things are working out? Maybe just breaking the cycle of going into that room has worked?


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

seems to be working for now, but the door is still shut. so, as long as the 'band aid' is there we should be ok. the issue is when we take away the bandaid.

we still need to soak down the rug, so the 'band aid' door wont be opened until after thats happened. id like to start getting them out of that habit before we clean stuff and open the room back up.

how do you do that? supervised visits? see how they act once they get in? i know probably to rush them to the litter if htey end up starting to try to go, but not sure what else.


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## Chieftain (Jul 1, 2010)

I think leaving the door closed for a while, at least from them, might do a bit of good. Like breaking the habit. I don't know how it is on cats or any other animal, but I know it takes about a week for us to form a habit, so maybe not letting them in for about a week might work on the habit part.

If it's the smell, then I have no idea. The only reason my cat ever did anything outside the litter box (peed on my recliner) was cause I dare change his litter, and that's what I got...so now he has his feline pine back.

As for what to do when you let them in I think supervised visits is a good idea. If you see any sniffing and scratching around the spot I'd get ready to throw them out of the room and into the litter box. (Well, you know...don't really throw them.)

Good luck!


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

I was thinking at least a couple weeks, leave it closed. it is a nice room so we cant permanently leave it closed off though. I think once we do open it though, and it has been soaked, we will still leave the citrus things on the spots. Better safe than sorry.

im hoping its just a weird fluke thing they will get over. maybe scooping everyday now is enough of a change? I hope so. i was kinda lazy about it before but, they never seemed to mind. when i did that too, they would have to go when i was changing it, so i could actually see simba pee, and the amount and everything, so i will kind of miss that part of it. They were never cats for privacy... id be sitting right in front scooping it, and in comes someone to pee or poop. with me right there. lol. that doesnt really happen now but theyre cleaned so often now.


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## Claiken (Dec 18, 2007)

is it a good sign that someone accidently left the door open for about an hour and theres no messes? if they were holding it in, they would have gone at the first chance, right?

I still shut the door out of fear, i was almost 100% expecting to find a mess, but i didnt. today is only like day 3 of the door being shut.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

I'm with ya! I think if they were holding it in they would have used that opportunity to go potty.


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## Chieftain (Jul 1, 2010)

Looks like a good sign, maybe when you decide to have it open, close it around the time they tend to go to the potty? Just in case?


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## catloverami (Jul 5, 2010)

It's a good sign, but I would leave door closed a couple of weeks more, and leave those citrus things in place too.

Keeping the litter boxes clean will help. Can't emphasize that enough. People are busy I know, but it doesn't take much time to remove clumps and poops morning_ and_ evening.


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