# Send her back?



## BamMcg (Apr 25, 2005)

Okay, I need opinions. I took this cat as a foster from a no kill rescue. She and two sisters and one brother were dumped on them by a breeder who never bothered to socialize them. They are pure bred seal point siamese. The first day, hubby let her out and she went nuts, so we put her in the guest room. We would catch her there but it was difficult. We now have holes in the screan where she tryed to get through(with the window shut) and when I tried to pull her off, she sprayed urine on me and the window, which is when we realized her gender. One night I did manage to hold her for an hour or so wrapped tightly in the quilt. Then I was advised to put her in a cage. She is very feral. I have to take her out by wrapping her in a quilt to clean her litter box, etc. She is not happy. She hisses, scratches and bites, her ears are always back. There has been little to no progress, maybe even regressed some. Anyway, I took her out tonight and she was worse than ever. She wriggled free and attacked me. I got scratched all in the palm of my hand, somehow under my wedding ring, and all up my leg. I hadden't realized how bad for a few seconds when I had blood running all down my leg, out from under and on my ring, and all from my palm. These are deep scratches and beginning to bruise around the edges and swell some. I don't know if I'm mad, dissapointed or what but my eyes swelled with tears. It didn't start to actually hurt until about 20 minutes later. I'm thinking of sending her back but I don't like giving up. I've put a little weight on her using a very good dry food, Nutro's Natural Choice. She was on wet special kitty something or other and very thin. She didn't like it and didn't like the good wet either. I had to pick my battles. I thought maybe I could win her over with yummy treats but no luck, she doesn't like them either. I'm scared just to feed her. Right now, she's hiding under the fridge and I'm afraid to get her out. That's hubby's job at this point. He saw my leg and freeked saying if that was one of the kids, the cat would go missing. Then he helped me clean up. The rescue said if it was too much to send her back, should I?


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## BamMcg (Apr 25, 2005)

Oh, she is 7-8 months old. Thanks.


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## Ioana (Jul 12, 2003)

Hey there,
I am so sorry you have to go through this!
However there is hope!
There aren't a lot of people like you and you are probably her best bet. If you return her to the shelter - they will try to better socialize her but they are always shorthanded when it comes to volunteer help so chances are they will have to send her on a farm. Out there - although with food and water there are still a lot of dangers. Outdoors cats do not live very long!

Ok let's see.
First of all, she is not entirely feral because you'd probably be completely unable to put your hands on her. 
The best thing is to get her back in her cage - I hope it is a relatively big one so she'll get some exercize because I advise you to keep her there for quiete a while. There is always the downside of becoming cage aggressive but that is something to worry in the long run.
You will have to spend as much time as possible to her, talk gently to her using fewer words that she can associate with a sense of calm. You can sing to her - treat her like a baby. That will be soothing, therapeutic!
Let her have water but do not feed her. Put wet food on your hand and let her come to you. I know, it takes a lot of patience but feral cats have turned around 180 degrees in the past, when they were let to "starve" - do not take it literally - just let them be as hungry as can be without harming them.. There is also a chance she might not come around - but you won't know exactly until you'll try at least a bit. Get a feathery toy - the one atttached to a little pole. Leave it in the cage with her for a little bit so she becomes used to it ..when you see her starting to play with it take it out and use it to interact with her. And from then on let her play with it only when you are around. SO she associates you with the fun of that toy - a great interactive one! You can have mousies and balls for her at all times in there so she keeps occupied and see that it is a nice place to be after all. 
So remember - give her baby talk, interactive play, allow her eat off of your hand only! some yummy canned food.

I am in the same process as you are but with a much younger cat. I have already tamed a boy the same age as her but she is giving me much more trouble. So that's why I am saying some are just different personality wise. I get the same "symptoms" as you : hissing, growling, scratching, ears back! My girl - Cheyenne is actually a smaller size - she about 15 weeeks - and I take her in my lap and let her eat there. She does growl if she looks at me :roll: 

Is she spayed already? She should be - no shelter adopts pets out without having them altered. 
I am so sorry you hurt so bad! Desinfect your wounds well and put neosporine on them Keep them under clean bandaids. Use garden gloves if you have to handle her(pick her up) and keep towels at your reach so you can block her, wrap her in them while you are in her cage if she gets antsy to say the least.
I have just had Cheyenne spayed and they clipped her nails so that helps TREMENDOUSLY! 

What is her name? Did you keep the name from the shelter??

However thank you so much for adopting and for being such a strong mom! The rewards will come!
I will think of more details as time goes by. Do not hesitate to ask anything and let us know how she is doing!
You and the kitty are in my thoughts!!!


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## BamMcg (Apr 25, 2005)

She has no name, never has and I don't know what to name her either. The shelter hasn't spayed her yet, do you think that would help her temper? She really is beautiful. To tell you the truth, the cats I've seen from this shelter that have spent any time there have all been thin. I know the 2 kittens I helped with had been in a tiny kennel for 2 days at least before I brought them home. I have my suspisions of longer. What is cage agression? She's been in a cage all her life. She seemed a little better in the guest room, but was extremely distructive. Plus I was told to put her in the cage because it helps. Her cage is just big enough for her, the litte box, and her food and water. I really do appreciate all the help.
Thanks,
Amber
PS- We still have to figure out a way to catch her. When I went back to get her, she wasn't there, so she's hiding somewhere else, but there's a ton of food missing and my cat wass in bed with me last night with the door shut.


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## BamMcg (Apr 25, 2005)

Oh, forgot, I ordered those nail covers for her so she cant do more damage lol.


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## Ioana (Jul 12, 2003)

YES SPAY HER! IT WILL HELP SO MUCH!!! Not to mention you won't have to deal with her spraying. The shelter should give you a discount for that. Ask them to help you with a bigger cage temporarily as well. It might not work but it doesn't hurt to ask...
Cats become cage aggressice when they spend too much time in a cage  . I do recommend you keep her in a small, contained area..especially somewhere where she cannot hide! NO PLACE TO HIDE is ideal. Perhaps you have a small bathroom available? There would be nothing to tear up in there. That's where I am keeping the third feral kitty I have rescued. His name is Dakota ..and the other is Mohave  . Well if nothing else continue with the cage you have and with a different kind environment - a lot more loving and attention she might not display the cage aaggression. Yours or a bigger cage might work better to start with - so you can get her to make some progess and come to you and eat off your hand!!
As for the name - don't worry once you'll learn more about her personality something will become apparent that will suit her. A lot of times members post pictures of their unamed pets and the other members offer name suggestions. 
Another thing that would help - to have another kitty that is much more tame with her - at least at some times. SO the behaviour would rub off :wink: . That is why I was happy I had trapped both Mohave and Cheyenne - they could keep each other company  . Mohave is so much better than Cheyenne however. Are all her of litter mates at the shelter this wild? Just curious

What a shame about the so called breeder. He should be reported for breeding irresponsibly!!! Him and others like him are the cause for so much suffering in the shelters and on the streets.


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## Ioana (Jul 12, 2003)

Oh, and about the nails - when you get her spayed ask them to trim them short..clean her ears and have her vaccinated for rabies, distemper..if none of that has already been done to her. I assume she has been tested for FELV + FIV, dewormed and has had flea medication?
The shelter seems to be functioning different than what I am used to. It always depends on the funds  ..


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## BamMcg (Apr 25, 2005)

She has had nothing but food from the shelter. All the siblings are the same way. I am not impressed by this shelter. They had the male and three females together unfixed. I have not noticed any flees at this point. Last night before I was attacked, I put the cage on the couch and opened the door. I brought in my other kitty I took in from a feral mom and bottle fed. He assumes I am mom. He did his normal thing, layed on his tummy stretched across my body, head on my shoulder kneeding me and licking me all over while purring as loud as possible- the tungue hurts on the face like sand paper lol. They do get along. But Beaver(my cat) needs to be neutered before I let them together unsupervised(he's 5 months). One day he went to help me feed her and peed in her litter box then walked around with his tungue hanging out snorting and drooling. It was odd, so I kicked him out of the room. I know how to clip nails really well, and short, just need hubby to help me. All the neighbors bring me their animals to do and I have a nice set of clippers. Beaver gets his clipped because he's always kneeding on me and it hurts if I let them grow. I am definatly going to put these caps on. Hubby and I joked we were going to get one of these bite guard things sized for a chiwawa and put it on along with the nails and see what she does lol. Thanks for all the help. I'll see if I can post some pictures of her soon.


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## Ioana (Jul 12, 2003)

It's great to see you are an expert at clipping nails!BUT YES, do be careful when you clip them. I had Cheyenne tested for FELV and it was ****. It took three of us and we all got scratches!! I would wait until she's sedated.
I am glad to hear you are very careful so her and Beaver don't mate. It is good you keep them separated until at least one will be altered!
Keep posting of how it's going with your fussy princess kitty girl and if you have time post pictures of her and Beaver - he seems to be quiete the gentleman  . You are his mom - there's no doubt about that 


I forgot to ask - have you found her :?: I hope there won't be any trouble getting her back to a confined space


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## BamMcg (Apr 25, 2005)

I still need to find her. She's an expert at hiding, last time she hid in the drawer of my computer. I'll update soon. Thanks again.


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## BamMcg (Apr 25, 2005)

Here's a couple of pictures, one of the feral and then 2 of Beaver. I took these about 2 weeks ago.


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## BamMcg (Apr 25, 2005)




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## Ioana (Jul 12, 2003)

Oh, they are both gorgeous! I love black kitties - they are my favourite..but I don't have any!! Well, Dakota is black ..but I am taking care of him until his ringworm goes away and I will find him a forever home. I wish I could keep him!
Beaver is such a pro at posing~  
And wow! your girl had got big eyes 8O . They look hypnotizing :lol:
Thanks for sharing.
Hope you'll find her soon! Cats can hide in the most unusual places :lol:


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## BamMcg (Apr 25, 2005)

Oh, yes, Beaver has turned out gorgiuos and had some issues to start with but is getting much better about playing too ruff. The Saimese has the bluest eyes, like flourecent. So not only huge but breathtaking as well. If she can be tamed down, I have no doubts she will find a great home. As soon as she is or if she can be, my next project for them is a Russian Blue. She isn't as feral as the one I have right now though. And was actually adopted out at one point but returned. Well, off to find kitty.


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## BamMcg (Apr 25, 2005)

Found her! She went back to the guest room. Yey!


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## BamMcg (Apr 25, 2005)

Just another update. I went to the pet store and found some organic comfort treats for her. She won't touch them though, but she might later on. I also bought her a collar and a leash. This is what has been working kind of well. We got her back out of the cage wrapped in a towl. Hubby held her and I clipped her nails, with no scratches or even attempts to scratch. I got them as short as possible, right down the the wick. Then I put her collar and leash on. I held the leash and when I felt she was comfortable at a certain distance, realed the leash in a little. Eventually, she was laying on the same pillow as my head, even stood on my head for a while(I was so scared!). Awsome, huh? But as soon as hubby came in, she freeked out again. I don't think she likes him at all. I always make him do the catching, etc, so that could be it. We now won't have to catch her anymore. We are leaving the leash on her as there's nothing in the cage for it to snag on, so I just have to get the end of the leash and open the door. Much less traumatic for her.


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## Ioana (Jul 12, 2003)

that's great news Bam! First you catch her and then she's on a leash 8O !!! I swani I have not seen a feral cat doing these things..her head on the same pillow with you..wow  
She 's been poorly socialized..but she's not feral. Just a wild streak inside of her; but your doing so good to keep it under control and show her kindness; she's catching on already.
Have your husband give her treats, cuddle her, talk baby like to her - she'sll accept him sooner; plus- it will be easier so she won't be so jumpy around him!
Good deal with trimming the nails!
Keep me updated - I love to hear about the huge progress she's making!


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

I've noticed that Siamese seem to really attach themselves to one person., and that person can do almost anything to them. They're very obedient to "Mother" or "Daddy." They warm up to others more slowly, and like to make the first move. However, once they get to know other people, they love to be petted!


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## BamMcg (Apr 25, 2005)

I hope someone can let me in on what just happened. I had her back out on the leash and she seemed to be doing fine. She curled up behind my back and everything... She was sitten beside me and I felt her, I don't like to look at her because I think it makes her uncomfortable, sniffing me, which she does a lot, and then without any warning, put her teeth on my arm. I didn't want to flinch. She had done something similar last night. She licked my leg, then scraped her teeth on me and it was over. But this time, she sank her teeth into my skin. I was in disbelief until I felt the pop of her teeth going all the way through. It didn't even seem like she wanted to hurt me. I don't understand. Of course I freeked out, scaring the living daylights out of her. She peed everywhere and now is hudling in her cage. What happened?


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## Ioana (Jul 12, 2003)

I think that actually was a love bite. She will learn in time to be more gentle about it.
I used to freak out as well when some of the feral cats would do it to me. But the more I socialized with them the softer the bites were. Just let her know you are uncomfartable with the level of depthness she goes to "Ouch", "(You have to More)Be Gentle, Honey  "
This won't mean you have regressed. Just continue with what you have been doing. You are on the right track.
I hope that she will warm up to her Daddy too!

Thank you for the info, Jeanie. It was one of the details I wasn't aware of when it comes to siamese  .
So she will learn to love both Mommy and Daddy?
Do your Blueberry and Precious love you and your husband the same? Or they follow you more than him.

It is a funny coincidence you have posted in this tyhread Jeanie!This what I was thinking of I was thinking of!The kitty that Bam is trying to tame does not only look like the kitty in your avatar but I am assuming your babies look the same? What kind of siamese is Bam's kitty? Perhaps you can tell from the picture..?


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

I'm surprised that she has a full mask, like an Applehead. Her head is shaped like a Classic Siamese. It could be that she's a bit older. They do get darker with age. I'm a bit puzzled.

I would see about that bite. Dr. Jean said cat bites should get medical attention.


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## BamMcg (Apr 25, 2005)

Thanks guys, it does hurt something horrible, like my whole forarm is bruised. Supposedly, she comes with papers with a birthdate and everything, so we're pretty sure she is about 7-8 months old. She is mut more fine bones than the cat in your avatar. I will get a quik good picture of her out of the cage for you. Boy does that bit hurt bad. Thanks again.


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

My avatar is only a drawing, of course. 

Ioana, I am definitely the "mother." My husband is not here nearly as much as I am. Precious watches every move he makes, but it has to be her idea for him to pet her. Of course, this is one person's experience, but I have talked to other Siamese owners, and they have noticed this unusual attachment to one person.


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## BamMcg (Apr 25, 2005)

Okay, here's some better pictures of her...


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

Wedgehead Siamese








Classic Siamese (the kind I have)







Applehead (original) Siamese









I would think, from the picture that you have a classic Siamese. The bone structure is not as big as the Applehead, nor as sleek as the Wedgehead (show) Siamese. Your foster cat definitely has a break at the forehead, not a straight line like the wedgehead. She looks much like my Precious. Of course, I think she's beautiful.


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## BamMcg (Apr 25, 2005)

The only specifics I knew was that she was a seal point siamese. I got in touch with the rescue place and she has an apointment for Sept. 16th to be spayed, the soonest possible in their schedule. We also came up with a name for her. She likes to hiss and talk. I've been calling her "missy", like listen here missy, I'm going to change your litter box no matter what. So, we decided, Miss Hiss. Missy for short. What do you think? I think all will work out... I think. I sure hope spaying her will help, the rescue said it would make for a full 360 degrees in her tempermate. If I knew she'd be a sweetheart when I'm done, no matter how long it took me, I'd be so much happier but everything is now up in the air. It's been a great deal of work so far. The ladey had to grapple hook her to get her out of the cage and was floored when I told her we trimmed her nails and collared her. I guess it will be little baby steps at a time.


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