# FIP :'(



## Pinkerbelle (Jan 21, 2008)

I'm completely heartbroken. I took Sebastian in for his check-up and neutering today and his bloodwork tested positive for FIP. We saw two doctors at the hospital. The first one checked his vitals, breathing, organs, etc and said he was a strong and healthy boy. He said that they can't really estimate the life expectancy of a FIP+ cat, but that it's generally between 2 and 4 years. The second doctor said that his bloodwork also showed some elevated liver enzymes, which led him to believe that my baby had 6 months or less before the symptoms started appearing.

The second doctor recommended that we not do the neutering. He said the stress of the surgery might quicken the disease. I remember it all in a blur. I think I was so shell shocked that I just nodded along to whatever he said, okayed the liver drugs he suggested, as well as the vaccines, the de-wormer and whatever else I ended up paying for. When he left the room to get the medicines, I started crying. Sebastian was a perfect angel at the vet, letting the technicians carry him around like a baby; it just killed me to see him so healthy and sweet and hear the doctor's diagnosis. 

I remember reading somewhere that only a small percentage of cats who have been exposed to the FIP virus actually develop the disease. I don't know if this is different...does the positive result mean he's already set to have it? The doctor seemed to think it was highly likely. I remember asking him about what signs I should look for, special care, about his diet (I worried that my raw recipe might not have given him the nutrition he needed for his liver). I don't even recall what he said except to recommend the dry Royal Canin food they stocked (and I declined), but he was very nice and gave me his number and e-mail address if I should have any problems or questions. I guess I'll contact him again after I calm down a bit. 

I know that FIP once advanced is degenerative and incurable, and I don't want him to suffer. Assuming he does develop the symptoms, once he starts exhibiting the signs, I don't think we should fight it and prolongue his suffering. I know he won't know that his life is shortened, I know the life I've given him is infinitely better and more loving than the life he had when I found him in a dirty outdoor pet market, locked in a birdcage in December chill with nothing to eat but a bowl of rice. I paid my 15 rmb ($2) for him and tucked him in my jacket and have tried to give him the best life possible ever since. Still, I can't imagine not having him here. He's been so important to me over the past 5 months. Having him here makes it so much easier to be away from home, and having him in my apartment makes it a home. He gives my life in China stability, reality, permanence that I didn't feel before. Though he has his feisty moments, it doesn't change the fact that he's just the sweetest thing. I was in my apartment for one night without him before leaving on holiday and I missed him so much, even though it was just one night. My apartment felt empty. I'm just crushed.

Sorry this is so long. Since I got back to my apartment I can't stop crying. He's just curled in my lap right now, and I'm just so, so sad today.


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## melysion (Mar 12, 2007)

I'm slightly confused here as I thought FIP could only be diagnosed postmortem. Anyway, I had a quick look on the internet and found this.

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Feline Infectious Peritonitis (FIP)

FIP is a complex disease that has proven to be difficult to test for, and to treat. The majority of the available tests for FIP are controversial, as there are concerns about their accuracy and reliability. These tests actually monitor for feline coronavirus, of which FIP is only one type. Many other types of non-disease causing coronaviruses can be found in cats. The only definitive test for FIP can be conducted through an invasive tissue biopsy. As in all the diseases discussed here, FIP can be passed on to other cats, but not to humans or other animals.

While there is a vaccine for FIP, it is not considered totally safe/and or reliable by some vets (if you are considering adopting a FIP+ cat, talk to your vet about it.) While the disease state of FIP is usually fatal, many cats carry the virus and live long, healthy lives, especially if they live indoors in a clean environment, have good nutrition, and are not exposed to stressful conditions. Healthy-looking cats can have very good chances of never developing full-blown FIP. Nevertheless, it is recommended that FIP+ cats should be in a single-cat home ... or with another FIP+ cat.

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So - and please anyone correct me if I'm wrong - according to this there is no reason at all why your boy should not have a healthy and long life. I'm not convinced being FIP+ will shorten his lifespan at all. Being FIP+ does not mean he will develop the disease I'm sure. 

Can anyone confirm if this is right? I do hope so.


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## Smirkitty (Apr 19, 2008)

I did a little research and here is what I found about the testing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feline_infectious_peritonitis
"More commonly, a presumptive diagnosis is made based on clinical signs and evaluation of abdominal or chest fluid, if available. Fluid caused by FIP tends to be yellow in color and have elevated protein levels. Blood tests can also be performed to bolster a presumptive diagnosis by looking for coronavirus antibodies and elevated protein. Coronavirus titers are not considered diagnostic in and of themselves due to the ubiquity of FeCoV, but may be used in conjunction with clinical symptoms to make an FIP diagnosis. It is important to note that cats with higher titres of FCoV are no more likely to develop FIP than those with lower titres. Cats with no exposure to FCoV cannot develop FIP."

I know you're probably not in a place to answer right now, but do you know what kind of test they did?

I also found a few other informational pages, some with support groups.

http://www.kedimveben.com/fip/indexeng.htm


http://www.dr-addie.com/


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## OsnobunnieO (Jun 28, 2004)

are you sure it was FIP and not FIV? the only reason I ask is normally testing for FIP is not a common procedure, unless there are signs and symptoms in a sick cat... and it sounds like your healthy young kitten simply went in for a routine neuter.


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## melysion (Mar 12, 2007)

That had occured to me too Jessie.


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## Pinkerbelle (Jan 21, 2008)

Thanks for your concern and quick responses. I'm kindof freaking out. It was definitely FIP and not FIV. I saw the tests myself. They gave me a pamphlet on the type of test they performed. The test is called Speed PIF (specifically SPF6). They dropped a spot of blood and some solution onto a plastic tester...looked a bit like a half of a contact case. Then if two lines showed up, it was positive. They also gave the same type of test for FIV and Feline Luekemia, both of which were negative. 

I read all that stuff about the virus and the accuracy of the test too, and I'd heard it before. I wish I had asked the doctor about that. My mind went blank. I'll admit that doing the internet reseach has made me feel a little less bleak...the doctor seemed pretty sure though. He said Sebastian also had some gum bleeding, but then on the way home, I found a back tooth in his carrier. They administered his de-worming pill with a long pill-shooting thing and he was really fighting it, hissing and growling and snapping whenever they tried to put it in his mouth...after finding the tooth I wonder if the bleeding was caused by that?


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## melysion (Mar 12, 2007)

Well, seeing as Sebastian seems to be perfectly healthy, its possible that he has just tested positive for the virus but not developed the disease. And many cats who are FIP+ dont go on to develop the disease from what I understand (which, admittedly, isnt very much).

This must be awful for you

[[[[hugs]]]]


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

Robin...I'm really sorry to hear this. 

But, I'm with the others on this...I've never heard of a test that is a reliable predictor of whether a cat that appears otherwise healthy will develop FIP. In most cases it's difficult to tell even when the cat is showing symptoms. 

I did a search on the test you named and find that there is barely any info out there. I found the manufacturer's website and the description of the test is very vague in that it doesn't say specifically whether it's just testing for coronavirus or whether they're touting it as an FIP test. There is one statement that makes me think it's just testing for coronavirus:
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As any coronavirus infection is easily transmissible and may lead to a FIP, screening controls are highly recommended, especially in multi-cat situations._

(the website: http://www.bvt.fr/anglais/speedpif.htm)

Their website is also plagued with spelling errors, I realize they're a French based company, but there are times when they spell something correctly and others when it's wrong, so I don't see it as translation issues. Makes me wonder just how reliable of a company they are. 

The bleeding was probably caused by the tooth, he's 5 months old....that's the age cats lose their baby teeth. The tooth was probably loose and the pill shooting incident probably knocked it out. 

So I think you have a cat that just tested positive for coronavirus, very few cats actually develop FIP. Of course, I'm no expert, but with everything I've ever read on FIP I just don't see how they can predict this. Also, if there was a test out there that reliably predicted development of FIP, we would be seeing much more widespread testing.


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## Pinkerbelle (Jan 21, 2008)

Thank you all, really, for the information and kind thoughts. I feel better, calmer now, if nothing else. I think I definitely need another vet's opinion on this. The pamphlet does say that most carriers of the coronavirus don't develop FIP. The doctor seemed to think that because of the liver enzymes this was a symptom of FIP beginnings, but I'm not sure if that was the only reason. Thankfully, I had a friend there with me, so tomorrow I'll see what she can remember from the visit. Also, the first doctor didn't seem nearly as concerned as the second. Of course I'd heard a little bit about FIP before, but admittedly, it wasn't much. I had two hours to worry about it on the way home and by the time I got here I was too upset to do any heavy researching. So thanks for that, I really appreciate your help. I assumed the doctor was giving it to me straight...but it seems like I need some clarification before I accept his diagnosis. 

I really hope I get news along the lines of what these articles say. Of course, that would bring up a whole other set of issues, neutering, liver, etc., but I'll cross that bridge if and when I come to it. 

About the liver problems...I really know nothing about that either. There's about a million causes for high enzymes, but could there be a dietary link? Something I could change in my care that might help in addition to the pills I got?


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## Smirkitty (Apr 19, 2008)

Liver issues can lead to problems w/ anesthesia, so perhaps that is why the vet was reluctant to do the neuter?


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

The other question would be how far off are the liver enzymes? If only slightly elevated, it may just be normal for him, after all he's a kitten and never had a baseline before. I would definitely talk to another vet...maybe even send the test results to your vet at home for a consultation. 

And hopefully Dr. Jean will see this and have an opinion for you...


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

You and Sebastian will be in my thoughts, Robin. I hope Sebastian lives for many years. I know that it is possible with FIP, and pray that this is the case for Sebastian.


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## Leazie (Apr 14, 2007)

Robin, didn't you just use a flea shampoo on Sebastian? Maybe that caused the liver enzymes to elevate?!


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## OsnobunnieO (Jun 28, 2004)

I really should know more about bloodwork values than I do. My first thought is flashing back to Addison (bridge kitty) and my vet saying any elevations in liver values in cats are for a reason, and most are cause for some action.

I also know a lot of puppies show slightly elevated liver enzymes on preanesthetic bloodwork and its often linked to teething. Not so sure if its the same in cats or if I can remember seeing any high values in kittens lately.

Off to search.


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## nanook (Jun 12, 2005)

Oh dear! I'm so sorry you've had such a scare but I'm with everyone else on this. I have never heard of any test, remotely accurate, except post mortem, for FIP.
I do believe that Jessie is correct and teething can show slightly elevated liver values. It could also be a slight diet imbalance or a myriad of things. Some serious others nothing at all. Most of all, it could be stress! The adrenal glands are right next to the liver and the release of adrenalin can effect liver values. I could be wrong about this, but I don't think so.
Personally, I think your vet grossly over reacted and scared you needlessly. I guess they have to err on the side of caution but...honestly, if he were my cat, I would not give the liver meds (whatever they are), I'd go ahead and neuter him and try not to worry about it.
I would try to find out how high the liver values were though as that would give a clearer picture of if there really is something going on with him. But my bet is they were slightly off 'cause, if they were very high, chances are he would be showing other signs. Vomiting, listlessness. Heck, he'd be feeling sick!
I can imagine how you must feel. I would be hysterical if I were you, but I really, really think they over reacted and he's fine.
Fingers and toes crossed!!


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## Pinkerbelle (Jan 21, 2008)

I'm not sure how far off the liver enzymes were, but I just requested the records from yesterday, so hopefully I can send those back to my vet at home.

Lea-Ann, yes I did just shampoo Sebastian. I didn't know that could have an affect on his liver function, good thinking! Also, teething, stress (he was in a carrier or travelling in a carrier for 7 hours yesterday before the appointment), my hope is that these things contributed to the high enzymes. I'm not even sure what the liver medication is called (it only shows chinese) but the doctor wanted me to come back in a month so he could check the enzymes and give me more. Maybe I could have his blood tested at our local clinic when he's not so stressed.

I woke up this morning feeling so much better. I'm so glad I have the CF for support, you guys are great.


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## drjean (Jan 6, 2004)

About 40% of completely normal, healthy cats will test positive for FIP (which is actually a non-specific test for antibodies against coronavirus). The vast majority will never develop FIP. A positive test means absolutely nothing in the absence of serious symptoms. Liver enzymes can be up for any number of reasons. It depends on which one(s) are high and by how much, but stress is one cause and simply being a kitten is another. 

Here's some *correct* D )info about FIP :
http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?a ... tonitisfip


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## Pinkerbelle (Jan 21, 2008)

Thanks so much for aswering, Dr. Jean. I got all of the test results sent to me today, and his ALP was 105. From what I've seen, normal is between 10-90, so I guess that seems pretty high to me. Anyways, I started giving him his liver pill last night and he was surprisingly compliant. We played with the laser light for 40 minutes last night and he wolfed down his dinner, seems to be healthy and happy. I pray the other doctor's opinion turns out to be overestimated and Sebastian is one of the ones who just carries the coronavirus. 

I really appreciate your input and the link! I've found a lot of conflicting information on the web, but I trust your site and your opinions 

Ok I'm adding an edit now that I've read your article. You recommend a diet with the immune supporting supplements, which is what I've been doing with BARF. One thing the other vet did say when I asked him about care, was that I shouldn't be giving Sebastian any special supplements. Because the disease occurs when the immune system is too good it would be like fueling the fire. That seemed like very strange logic to me. Why would he say that?


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