# Orbax for UTI?



## Risami (Nov 18, 2007)

My vet prescribed orbax for uti and prescription food i really hate the ingridents but I am hoping this will help. Today i found blood in her urine, I want to do a culture but if she is on antibiotics It may not show up.

My vet did told me there will be blood because of the antibiotics, does anybody have similar issues as me or do i need a 2nd opinion :\ her pervious episodes she was on clavamox and her symptons went away within 2 days from clavamox. How long will this symptons last with orbax ?


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## Risami (Nov 18, 2007)

I'm thinking of wanting to give my cats friskies but I know its terrible food but if i'm on a budget will wet food friskies be better then nothing? :\


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Risami, 
I don't know about the Orbax...
But the Friskies original pates are the better ones in their lineup, Look for the Turkey and Poultry platter, these also come in the bigger 13 ounce cans!
I do use these in my rotations, and in my opinion, are still definitely better than dry!
Good Luck! 
Sharon


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## Risami (Nov 18, 2007)

I may use friskies as a rotation too, I don't know if that is terrible idea but I may do friskies-mid quality-high quality saves me money.

I wish i knew about the orbax though  You think I can do a culture when she is on antibiotics or do i have to wait it out?


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Risami,
Please forgive me if you've posted this info in another thread...
What exactly was she diagnosed for? Crystals, specific infection, or ??
I to, have one, that I thought was getting better...but now she's showing symptoms again...in her case, it was diagnosed as Struvite Crystals...
Sharon


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## Risami (Nov 18, 2007)

I don't know, the vet just felt her bladder couldn't take a test and wanted her on antibiotics right away. He thinks its Uti as i describe it. If you know what some test are called and if they can be taken while on antibiotics. I may have to find out I'm just afraid to take her off antibiotics.


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## texasgirl (Feb 27, 2013)

I think Orbax is used as an antibiotic so if your kitty does have a bacterial infection from UTI then it will be helpful. Did your vet give her pain medication, also? Antibiotics do nothing for the pain, unfortunately.

If you hate the ingredients in vet prescription I would look into better food for her. Something that is high-protein, low carb, and with lower phosphorus. I have found that Merrick's Cowboy Cookout, Surf n Turf, and Grammy's Pot Pie are all good choices. They meet the guidelines for protein, carbs AND phosphorus levels (phosphorus being under 1%) High phosphorus levels can contribute to bladder issues and make current ones worse. Or better yet, start giving her a raw diet. Nature's Variety Instinct, Primal and Stella & Chewy's are all good choices. I like Primal because because they give a detailed list of ingredients and analysis of each food on their website. Take her off the dry food, too.

The most important part is making sure she drinks water. Place water bowls in several locations to make her drink!!

Here's a food chart for you to go by: 

Cat Food Chart from catinfo.org

Here's a website on UTIs:

http://www.catinfo.org/urinarytracthealth.php


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## MowMow (Nov 6, 2010)

I disagree, if the vet feels she would benefit and you have a diagnosis of a UTI then she needs to eat the prescription food. I would NOT feed it forever but until the UTI is cleared up and she's healthy she should remain in it.

Also, the ingredients may not be good in the SD prescription food but IMO they are better than Friskies....


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Risami,
How old is your cat?
Has she UTI's in the past?
How were those diagnosed, if she did??

My vet wanted a "Clean" catch sample...usually not recommended, but I did find out later, it was to see if there was blood already present in her urine...
The "Cysto" draw, which is by a long, slender needle, inserted into their bladder, is what will show Bacteria or Crystals present...
By doing the "Clean" catch first, if no blood is present, than doing the "Cysto", if there's a touch of blood, it's probably from the needle insertion...

If your vet hasn't ever done this...
I think it's time for a second opinion, at the least, and possibly, a new vet!!

Just like people, to keep prescribing antibiotics, will make for drug resistant mutations...
So it's VERY important that they KNOW what they're treating for!!
I'm really hoping some other members jump in with some ideas and suggestions for you!

I know how worrisome it all is....
Hugs and Prayers! 
Sharon


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## texasgirl (Feb 27, 2013)

MowMow said:


> I disagree, if the vet feels she would benefit and you have a diagnosis of a UTI then she needs to eat the prescription food. I would NOT feed it forever but until the UTI is cleared up and she's healthy she should remain in it.
> 
> Also, the ingredients may not be good in the SD prescription food but IMO they are better than Friskies....


 
My cat did not benefit from a prescription diet AT ALL. His coat became dry and ugly. He didn't like eating the food. And the infections kept coming back. It was time to look for a different alternative so I did my own research and put him on a canned diet. I gave him plenty of water to drink, too. He hasn't had a problem in years. But I also did something for his pain, something my vet never even addressed. Needless to say, I no longer use this vet.

I do agreee about Friskies, though...


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## texasgirl (Feb 27, 2013)

Risami said:


> I'm thinking of wanting to give my cats friskies but I know its terrible food but if i'm on a budget will wet food friskies be better then nothing? :\


 
I found that pre-made raw food is a better bet when it comes to saving money. The food I bought was $17.99 for 48 frozen bars. They eat 2 bars twice a day. That comes to 75 cents a meal per cat. (And it's better for them.)


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Texasgirl,
Not ALL of the Friskies is bad! and I'll go with what some other's have said...Canned is better than dry!

Now that being said,
I'm interested in the pre-made raw you're taliking about!!
Who makes it, and where can you buy it??

It just might work for Risami, as well!!
Thanks!
Sharon


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## Risami (Nov 18, 2007)

Well I have 2 cats to food if I didn't know this would be expensive I would have stuck with 1 and its the one with current problems. She is 7 years old I don't know If i can get raw since I have two cats. I suck at feeding them I am afraid I will feed them less or to much.


What is this needle thing called, I'm afraid this will get her into seizurse she has panic seizures so hopefully this won't casue her a seizure and this needle thing how much is this procedure? are they asleep? I find urinalysis good price but I want to know what i'm dealing with I do have carecredit just don't know how much.


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## texasgirl (Feb 27, 2013)

10cats2dogs said:


> Texasgirl,
> Not ALL of the Friskies is bad! and I'll go with what some other's have said...Canned is better than dry!
> 
> Now that being said,
> ...


 
I apologize...I should have explained why I don't think Friskies is the best choice for a cat with bladder problems. Most Friskies wet food has fish in it, something a cat with bladder issues should stay away from because of the phosphorus content. Others that don't have fish will have a lot of by-products and rice, plus carageenan in it. It's a chemical that I am finding in lots of pet food. It's very frustrating finding a food that doesn't have this.

I do agree that any wet food is better than dry because dry is a water-depleted diet. No argument there. But there are a lot of wet foods on the market that are so high in carbohydrates that it isn't much healthier. This contributes to IBD, Diabetes, UTIs, Hyperthyroidism and other diseases. I want to just scream at these pet food companies for only caring about the profit and not the pets!

Here's the website for Primal Food: www.primalpetfoods.com What I like about this site is that it lists the phosphorus content, along with carbs, magnesium, calcium, etc...

Again, sorry about offending you! I've just dealt with UTIs in the past and it's a very scary and painful condition.


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## Risami (Nov 18, 2007)

how much would i feed 2 cats? one ofthem is 13 and one of them is 12 i like to bring them to 10 pounds if i can as one of them looks overweight for her age and I don't want her to have diabetes in the future


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## larsan (May 3, 2014)

MowMow said:


> I disagree, if the vet feels she would benefit and you have a diagnosis of a UTI then she needs to eat the prescription food. I would NOT feed it forever but until the UTI is cleared up and she's healthy she should remain in it.
> 
> Also, the ingredients may not be good in the SD prescription food but IMO they are better than Friskies....


I have to agree on the prescription food. My guy certainly benefited from it. He stayed at his normal weight and no signs of further problems.


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## Risami (Nov 18, 2007)

are there anymore cat food list that can fit my budget that can feed two cats that would be about .60-.80cent per cat =( I don't want my other cat to have problems


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## larsan (May 3, 2014)

Risami said:


> are there anymore cat food list that can fit my budget that can feed two cats that would be about .60-.80cent per cat =( I don't want my other cat to have problems


Only 1 of my cats had to have prescription food, so I fed him in a separate room with the door closed. I gave the other kiddo just regular wet food....she really isn't fond of wet food, prefers dry, so she only eats a small amount of the wet. When they are done, I pick up any remaining food so he doesn't get any none Prescription food to eat.


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## texasgirl (Feb 27, 2013)

Risami said:


> are there anymore cat food list that can fit my budget that can feed two cats that would be about .60-.80cent per cat =( I don't want my other cat to have problems


 
Your area might have some independent pet food places that carry cheaper-priced food. I agree it will be hard to find a good food that low in price if it's per day. The larger cans might work better for you, they are cheaper per volume than the small cans.

Like I said, I spend about 75 cents per meal per cat on the Primal raw food diet. They also have a feeding calculator that will help you figure the amount to make your cat lose weight safely. www.primalpetfoods.com I would stay away from the salmon type kinds, as fish is not good for cats with UTI problems. There is also a store locator where you can type in your zip code and it will give you a list of stores in your area that carry this type of food.

Hope this helps!


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## Risami (Nov 18, 2007)

Yeah I think I could give it a go on the raw food but I don't how to deal with finicky cats. what brand type did you from the primal foods? turkey? what type of bag I want to get the same bag as you so I can do the same


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## texasgirl (Feb 27, 2013)

Risami said:


> Yeah I think I could give it a go on the raw food but I don't how to deal with finicky cats. what brand type did you from the primal foods? turkey? what type of bag I want to get the same bag as you so I can do the same


 
I had a nice, long reply typed in and I accidentally erased it. Auuughh! Sorry. 

Okay, I did the calculation for your 13 lb cat and it says to feed 3 1/2 bars a day. If you feed twice a day, split it in two. (About 1.7 bars but it doesn't have to be exact) That is for a little weight loss.

I bought the Turkey frozen at my local independent store so I didn't have to pay shipping. It was $17.99 for 48 nuggets. 

I place the nuggets either in a plasitc, zipped baggy or a closed container and let thaw about 7 hours. (The only hard part is remembering to do this but if you can get into the habit of replacing it immediately after giving food it really helps) Then I mash 2 bars until it looks like wet food. Serve.

If your kitties turn their noses up then mix some of their wet food into it. Or sprinkle some freeze-dried treats on top. But my boys scarfed it down and Noah is a very picky one. 

Type your zip code in the Store Locator. That will bring up a list of stores in your area that carry the food. That will eliminate the extra cost of shipping.

Hope this helps!


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## Risami (Nov 18, 2007)

texasgirl said:


> I found that pre-made raw food is a better bet when it comes to saving money. The food I bought was $17.99 for 48 frozen bars. They eat 2 bars twice a day. That comes to 75 cents a meal per cat. (And it's better for them.)



i notice something you said you feed 2 frozen bars all i see is nuggets isn't that under feeding them? or do you mean 2 bars like nuggets as in 4 nuggets total?


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## texasgirl (Feb 27, 2013)

Risami said:


> i notice something you said you feed 2 frozen bars all i see is nuggets isn't that under feeding them? or do you mean 2 bars like nuggets as in 4 nuggets total?


Yes, nuggets. I call them bars because they don't look like nuggets to me. They look like miniature gold bars. :smile:

You know, like those miniature hershey chocolate bar bites you give out for halloween? (but the nuggets are bigger than that)


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## Risami (Nov 18, 2007)

Well i got two cats  how much bars would i feel total in 30 days


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## texasgirl (Feb 27, 2013)

Risami said:


> Well i got two cats  how much bars would i feel total in 30 days


Okay, you're testing my math skills, LOL.

48 bars in a bag. Each cat about 4 bars per day...That bag will last 12 days. About 2 1/2 bags will last 30 days, give or take. I don't know how much the bags will cost in your area, though, but it would cost me about $45 plus tax a month. But I would start with only one bag, just in case they won't take to it at all! (Most stores will let you return it to exchange for something else if you save your receipt)

Will this work for you?


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## Risami (Nov 18, 2007)

that sounds confusing you say 3 1/2 for my cat but 2 4 total? and last 12 days? that is doable if i read correctly


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## texasgirl (Feb 27, 2013)

Risami said:


> that sounds confusing you say 3 1/2 for my cat but 2 4 total? and last 12 days? that is doable if i read correctly


 
Oh gosh, I only figured for 1 cat. I'm so sorry! Okay, 3.5 bars for each cat would equal 7 bars per day. 48 divided by 7 is about 7 days so that bag will last a week. So you will need 4 bags. Sorry about that! It will total about $72 plus tax a month.


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## Risami (Nov 18, 2007)

well that sucks  I don't know how i can feed 2 cats with that
Is there even better options?


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## texasgirl (Feb 27, 2013)

Risami said:


> well that sucks  I don't know how i can feed 2 cats with that
> Is there even better options?


Okay, let me get back to you. I will see what I can find.


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## Risami (Nov 18, 2007)

Sorry for about that just with cat vet/food it is just to much to bear. I'm dealing with it I'll just remember to have 1 cat for now on


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## Heather72754 (Nov 1, 2013)

Risami said:


> My vet did told me there will be blood because of the antibiotics,


Huh??? I think it's time for a new vet. In the first place, if she hasn't had a urinalysis/urine culture she shouldn't even be on an antibiotic. In the second place, antibiotics should never cause bleeding. Have a read on this site to see how overused antibiotics are for urinary issues in cats that are due to inflammation, NOT infection. Feline Urinary Tract Health: Cystitis, Urethral Obstruction, Urinary Tract Infection by Lisa A. Pierson, DVM :: cat urinary tract health

I just went through this with one of my cats and she got totally over it with added water and stress reduction (we had been away on vacation and then came home).


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## Risami (Nov 18, 2007)

if that is the issue....can i sue my vet if it does something bad to my cat


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## texasgirl (Feb 27, 2013)

Risami said:


> Sorry for about that just with cat vet/food it is just to much to bear. I'm dealing with it I'll just remember to have 1 cat for now on


 
Yes, you might want to focus on your ill kitty right now and give regular wet food to your other kitty. 

I looked up some pet food websites and some bags are 20% with free shipping if you order $50 or more. But the bags are more expensive. You could go with freeze-dried (add water to the food) but they don't say how many nuggets are in each bag, sorry.

I think the first step is to try the food first. Find a local retailer and purchase a small bag. If your kitty takes to it then you can deal with it later.


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## Heather72754 (Nov 1, 2013)

Risami said:


> if that is the issue....can i sue my vet if it does something bad to my cat


I would concentrate on your cat, not on whether or not you can sue your vet. Giving your cat an antibiotic, even if it's not necessary, is not going to be something you can sue over IMO. Even if it were, do you have the kind of money it takes to hire a lawyer to see something like that through? Few people do.

Anyway, in the final analysis it's up to you to educate yourself and be an advocate for your cat in the future and not blindly trust a vet who may or may not be the sharpest tool in the box, that's why I put up that link for you.


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## Risami (Nov 18, 2007)

I did went to one E-vet and one vet that was open and had one spot when she had the same problem and they found no stones but her bladder was empty i don't know how they find out there was no stones i know one was xray and i think the other one they probably used a cyst thing but could not find anything from it and she got clavamox from both of those different vets. The E-vet made her had a seizure  she have panic seizures it was scary but at least i know she was ok.

I don't know what clavamox is and why its different but seems to work alot better, I may try the other vet if they have openings but i seem to can only get in the vet that prescribed her the orbax


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## texasgirl (Feb 27, 2013)

Heather72754 said:


> I would concentrate on your cat, not on whether or not you can sue your vet. Giving your cat an antibiotic, even if it's not necessary, is not going to be something you can sue over IMO. Even if it were, do you have the kind of money it takes to hire a lawyer to see something like that through? Few people do.
> 
> Anyway, in the final analysis it's up to you to educate yourself and be an advocate for your cat in the future and not blindly trust a vet who may or may not be the sharpest tool in the box, that's why I put up that link for you.


I hate to say this, but I'm finding a lot of clueless vets out there. I agree that an antibiotic is useless if there's no bacteria infection. If it's inflammation then a proper diet with lots of water is the best. And the pain should be addressed, too.


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## texasgirl (Feb 27, 2013)

Risami said:


> I did went to one E-vet and one vet that was open and had one spot when she had the same problem and they found no stones but her bladder was empty i don't know how they find out there was no stones i know one was xray and i think the other one they probably used a cyst thing but could not find anything from it and she got clavamox from both of those different vets. The E-vet made her had a seizure  she have panic seizures it was scary but at least i know she was ok.
> 
> I don't know what clavamox is and why its different but seems to work alot better, I may try the other vet if they have openings but i seem to can only get in the vet that prescribed her the orbax


 
Oh gosh, I'm sorry about the seizure. My cats freak out when they go to the vet, too. But then again, I hate doctors too.

Clavamox won't help either if there's no infection. 

How is your kitty doing now?


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## Risami (Nov 18, 2007)

well she is still ok but i think she is in pain  still strain but she still have her apptitle i added some purify water to her wet food too so she is eating now.

and another thing what should i ask my vet tommarow? i want to say the right things and not be lost. I don't know what to say and how to deal with this I don't know about these uti test clearly my vet doesn't :\


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## texasgirl (Feb 27, 2013)

Okay, I will tell you one thing I did for the pain, but it's an alternative remedy and it's not popular because most people are not familiar. So I will only tell you what I did for my kitty's pain. 

I have done a lot of research over the years and have used homeopathy on my kitties. When Josie got bladder inflammation (no crystals) I did not have an antibiotic used on her. I simply used a homeopathic remedy called Cantharis that I purchased from a vitamin store. Whole Foods and Sprouts carry this, too. I gave her 3 little pellets of 30c dosage twice a day. Cantharis is used to bring down inflammation and is good for urinary problems. It costs $6.99 and comes in a small blue tube-like container. Contains about 80 pellets.

I am not telling you to do this, I am simply putting it out there. It is not a drug and doesn't have side effects.


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## Risami (Nov 18, 2007)

I have this store that sells natural products but i think its closed today  they are like a christian store
so they close on sundays


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## texasgirl (Feb 27, 2013)

Risami said:


> I have this store that sells natural products but i think its closed today  they are like a christian store
> so they close on sundays


Any vitamin store will have it. Vitamin Shoppe, GNC, etc...

Here's some information on it (and what it looks like)


Cantharis 30c 

Home Remedies for Urinary Tract Problems in Cats | eHow


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Texasgirl,
No offense taken
I've just seen what some of the food threads can turn into!!
You are correct, with a lot of the Friskies having fish in them!
That's why I only recommended two specific flavors...and pate's...

I've still got a cat with Struvite Crystal issues...sigh...I thought she was on the mend...

Risami, I know it's a lot of information to wrap your head around, all at once...
And it's very apparent, that you're doing the best you can and you care very much about your cats!!
I am hoping that some of the suggestions will help you!
Sharon


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## Risami (Nov 18, 2007)

Yes I will try some things but If i can't really feed them that much of good quality I will get them mid quality and try evo again, one cat use to like evo but something change that she dislike it. I may try petsmart authorty brand to evo


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## texasgirl (Feb 27, 2013)

10cats2dogs said:


> Texasgirl,
> No offense taken


 
Oh, I'm so glad. I never mean to offend but can come off sounding snobbish. I just want to keep others from making the same mistakes I did in the past.

Have you looked at the phosphorus content in your food? How old is your kitty? The Primal raw you're interested is low in phosphorus so that should help her. (Along with high protein, low carb and good fats)


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## texasgirl (Feb 27, 2013)

Risami said:


> Yes I will try some things but If i can't really feed them that much of good quality I will get them mid quality and try evo again, one cat use to like evo but something change that she dislike it. I may try petsmart authorty brand to evo


Evo was bought out by Proctor and Gamble and most likely changed the formula so that's probably why your cat doesn't like it. It's so frustrating when this happens. 

I also heard from some crebible pet store owners that Nature's Variety changed their formula, too. It explains why my cats wouldn't finish their Instinct wet food. I also decided to switch the raw food to Primal and am happier with it.


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## Risami (Nov 18, 2007)

Well that is terrible D: but If i want to make life changes for them for their health maybe they will like it. even it takes awhile


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## texasgirl (Feb 27, 2013)

Risami said:


> Well that is terrible D: but If i want to make life changes for them for their health maybe they will like it. even it takes awhile


That's understandable. With all the headaches going on with ingredients in wet foods and all the controversy about magnesium, by-products and such that I decided raw was the way to go. I'm financially strapped, myself, but my cats eat better than I do:crazy


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## Risami (Nov 18, 2007)

Haha well I have problems myself so of cousre it be hard gasitris, a neck form that needs to be straighten  it sucks. But I am planning to do online schooling soon so i can get a better job and if my cats are still alive by the time i get that job I'll be able to spoil them silly!


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## texasgirl (Feb 27, 2013)

Good for you! You sound like a good, caring person. It's hard but you will get there.

Just remember that the vet works FOR YOU. You are paying them, after all...Ask any question you want. NO question is stupid when you love your kitty.


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## Risami (Nov 18, 2007)

I am now eaglery waiting for tommarow to ask my vet :\ so much waiting as long as my cat doesn't get major problems that doesn't exceed my carecredit


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## texasgirl (Feb 27, 2013)

Risami said:


> I am now eaglery waiting for tommarow to ask my vet :\ so much waiting as long as my cat doesn't get major problems that doesn't exceed my carecredit


You can ask about pain medication. Hopefully your vet will do something about that!


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## Risami (Nov 18, 2007)

texasgirl said:


> You can ask about pain medication. Hopefully your vet will do something about that!


yes defintly i just hope it doesn't turn into crystals :\ what are the chances of that? or will she be in worst worst shape?


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## texasgirl (Feb 27, 2013)

If you're feeding her wet food and giving lots of water then I wouldn't worry about crystals right now. Just focus on making her comfortable until she goes to the vet tomorrow.

Let me know what they say.


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## texasgirl (Feb 27, 2013)

Risami said:


> yes defintly i just hope it doesn't turn into crystals :\ what are the chances of that? or will she be in worst worst shape?


 
I posted this link on the first page of your thread but if you haven't read it yet I posted it again:

http://www.catinfo.org/urinarytracthealth.php 


It gives you information on your kitty's condition about water, dry food, wet food diet, phosphorus, etc...It's not a long article and is easy to understand.


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## MowMow (Nov 6, 2010)

texasgirl said:


> Evo was bought out by Proctor and Gamble and most likely changed the formula so that's probably why your cat doesn't like it. It's so frustrating when this happens.


That was years ago.
There was no change in formula during the time Proctor and Gamble owned the Natura Foods products.

They don't own it anymore. The entire list of the original Natura foods was bought by Mars recently.


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## texasgirl (Feb 27, 2013)

MowMow said:


> That was years ago.
> There was no change in formula during the time Proctor and Gamble owned the Natura Foods products.
> 
> They don't own it anymore. The entire list of the original Natura foods was bought by Mars recently.


 
Oh, my bad. But doesn't Mars also own Sheba and Whiska's food? That doesn't sound too thrilling. What are the chances of them cutting corners with Evo to save money?


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## Risami (Nov 18, 2007)

My cat hasn't went to the litter frequently as of 2 hours she ate her food again with more purify water, she will eat in small portions, trying to get her use to 3 meals but..its 4 meals. I am hoping she is recovering but i'm still going to the vet to make sure I get rid of this thing permantly


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## RatAndMop (May 10, 2011)

texasgirl said:


> If you're feeding her wet food and giving lots of water then I wouldn't worry about crystals right now. Just focus on making her comfortable until she goes to the vet tomorrow.
> 
> Let me know what they say.


 Hey texasgirl. Thanks for the heads up on the Primal food. Luckily I checked online and there is a store very close to me that sells this. I have one question though. I looked at the ingretients and it states that taurine is N/A. Do you know why this would be,and would it be a problem....Thanks...


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## RatAndMop (May 10, 2011)

Oh sorry....I was looking at the dog formula. Do they not make a chicken formula for cats???


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## RatAndMop (May 10, 2011)

Looking for something different. It's costing me aprox $160 a month now for two ten pound cats...


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## texasgirl (Feb 27, 2013)

RatAndMop said:


> Oh sorry....I was looking at the dog formula. Do they not make a chicken formula for cats???


 
Yes, they do make a chicken formula but not sure if they carry the cat food in Canada. 

Here's their website: www.primalpetfoods.com 


I checked my bag for taurine (you scared me, lol!) and it does contain it.


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## texasgirl (Feb 27, 2013)

RatAndMop said:


> Looking for something different. It's costing me aprox $160 a month now for two ten pound cats...


 
I wish I knew more about what kinds of brands Canada sells in their cat food lines. $160 does sound like a lot. I have 2 cats, also, and feeding the Primal food will be slightly cheaper than the money I've been spending on the more expensive brands of wet food.

Are you currently feeding raw food?


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## RatAndMop (May 10, 2011)

I feed them each half of a 5.5 oz of Wellness Core twice a day at almost $3 per can. I also have little individual baggies of raw that I've chopped up in the freezer of beef strips,chicken pieces,chicken livers,chicken hearts that they get aprox 2 tbsp per day. I mix water in with their soft food.Sometimes put the raw in the wet and sometimes not....Just noticed that Primal sells chicken necks too. Been looking all over for those...


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## RatAndMop (May 10, 2011)

I don't see chicken raw frozen formula on Primal's site. I see a chicken and fish one but I need to avoid fish for my 3 year old persian/ragdoll,(Mop),after having 3 stones removed from his bladder in May. I was dumb back then and feeding them Chicken Soup dry...With a once per day small feeding of Wellness Core herring formula.....Double duh


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## RatAndMop (May 10, 2011)

Also noticed the Primal's raw is 15-19% protien. Isn't that a little low?


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## Risami (Nov 18, 2007)

Well my cat has no crystals just an inflamation, she got inflamation shots today, even had an xray still hard to do a culture because her straining makes her empty out her bladder but they want me to continue on antibiotics after that is done I will be doing a culture. She will be pain free now once the shot kicks in more money down the drain though  Had to break into savings account since they don't take carecredit so had to break into my savings.


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## texasgirl (Feb 27, 2013)

RatAndMop said:


> I don't see chicken raw frozen formula on Primal's site. I see a chicken and fish one but I need to avoid fish for my 3 year old persian/ragdoll,(Mop),after having 3 stones removed from his bladder in May. I was dumb back then and feeding them Chicken Soup dry...With a once per day small feeding of Wellness Core herring formula.....Double duh


 
Yes, there is the Chicken and Salmon frozen. Not crazy about the salmon so I bought the Turkey kind. Not sure why they don't have just chicken, as chicken is very popular.


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## texasgirl (Feb 27, 2013)

RatAndMop said:


> Also noticed the Primal's raw is 15-19% protien. Isn't that a little low?


 
No, it is actually 55% protein for the Chicken and Salmon one. I am not sure what the turkey is but it's probably close to the same. 

If you notice on the wet cat food label it lists around 10-12% protein for most cans. 


Here's a food chart for you:

http://www.catinfo.org/docs/SortableCatFoodChartCatinfo.org2-22-13.htm 


You will see the protein in wet and frozen (and freeze-dried) is a lot higher. I just don't know how they've figured that out.


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## texasgirl (Feb 27, 2013)

Risami said:


> Well my cat has no crystals just an inflamation, she got inflamation shots today, even had an xray still hard to do a culture because her straining makes her empty out her bladder but they want me to continue on antibiotics after that is done I will be doing a culture. She will be pain free now once the shot kicks in more money down the drain though  Had to break into savings account since they don't take carecredit so had to break into my savings.


 
I'm sorry you had to break into your savings; I have done that many times! I am glad that they gave her something for the pain, though, and she will feel better. Keep encouraging her to drink and add water to the wet food. 

IMO, I would stay away from dry food.


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## texasgirl (Feb 27, 2013)

RatAndMop said:


> I feed them each half of a 5.5 oz of Wellness Core twice a day at almost $3 per can. I also have little individual baggies of raw that I've chopped up in the freezer of beef strips,chicken pieces,chicken livers,chicken hearts that they get aprox 2 tbsp per day. I mix water in with their soft food.Sometimes put the raw in the wet and sometimes not....Just noticed that Primal sells chicken necks too. Been looking all over for those...


Wellness can be expensive (as with some other high-quality brands!) It's tough to part with the money and my kitties don't really care for it. Switching to raw just made more sense to me and I am lucky that both my boys love it!

Sounds like you're taking good care of your kitties:catsm


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## texasgirl (Feb 27, 2013)

RatAndMop said:


> I don't see chicken raw frozen formula on Primal's site. I see a chicken and fish one but I need to avoid fish for my 3 year old persian/ragdoll,(Mop),after having 3 stones removed from his bladder in May. I was dumb back then and feeding them Chicken Soup dry...With a once per day small feeding of Wellness Core herring formula.....Double duh


 
Ouch! I can relate, as my boy Moses had a stone blockage back in 2003. Very scary times! He is fine and is almost 15 now.


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## RatAndMop (May 10, 2011)

Great chart...At work now and will forward it on to my home. I noticed most foods are over 1 phosphorus. It's my understanding that for Mop's issues that the phosphorus should be below 1..Is that true??


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## texasgirl (Feb 27, 2013)

RatAndMop said:


> Great chart...At work now and will forward it on to my home. I noticed most foods are over 1 phosphorus. It's my understanding that for Mop's issues that the phosphorus should be below 1..Is that true??


From what I understand the phosphorus levels for UTIs are okay at 1-1.2%. My Moses has eaten wet food higher than that and he has not had a problem, thankfully. But I have several water bowls around the house and I think water is more important than medium phosphorus levels.

However, if you look at the Primal frozen it has low phosphorus content. Turkey is very low and Rabbit is about .7%. Your kitties might enjoy the rabbit, I know my cats love rabbit wet food. My independent pet store doesn't carry it in the frozen Primal kind so I have turkey instead.

Here's another article about Urinary tract disease and water, phosphorus, etc...

www.catinfo.org/urinarytracthealth.php


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## texasgirl (Feb 27, 2013)

RatAndMop said:


> Great chart...At work now and will forward it on to my home. I noticed most foods are over 1 phosphorus. It's my understanding that for Mop's issues that the phosphorus should be below 1..Is that true??


 
Have you also noticed how high the carbohydrates are in a lot of wet food, too? Carbohydrates can contribute to diabetes, hyperthyroidism, IBD and other diseases. So scary! (You will see the pet food companies won't list carbs on their label analysis. Very sneaky!)


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## RatAndMop (May 10, 2011)

It seems nothing is perfect. Maybe homade raw with supliments is the best. That's what I'm hoping for eventually. I Have a water fountain in the kitchen and a water bowl in almost every room. I've seen each of them sip a bit of water once in the past 3 months since switching to wet with extra water. Their pee has tripled...


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## Risami (Nov 18, 2007)

I am wondering how to bladder infections appear in cats and how to prevent, I know I should give plenty of water. Is it common that sometime UTI they don't get stones. Would you call it UTI or bladder infection in my cat that has not have stones.


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Risami, 
Can you/did you, follow the link that Texasgirl posted for you? 
It is very informative on all the urinary issues and very easy to understand, it may give you the information you're looking for!
Sharon


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## Risami (Nov 18, 2007)

I thought UTI is different then bladder infection though I'll reread it


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## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

The Urinary system includes, Kidneys, bladder, urethra, any of which can get irritated or infected...there is a delicate balance for a cat to keep, between, to alkaline or to acidic urine, this is what can decide if a cat is going to have a Crystal problem or an Oxalate problem...
This is why food plays a huge role in having a healthy cat...and why canned food is so strongly recommended!
All that extra water in canned is good for them, since many cats don't drink near enough water!
And....why fish isn't recommended (except for an occasional treat!)
There seem to be a few of us, right now, that have similar issues, going on with our kitties...
So you're not alone!
Hugs!
Sharon


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## Risami (Nov 18, 2007)

Does alot of people that has similer problem as me had any luck that they didn't develop stones but just the infection?


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## texasgirl (Feb 27, 2013)

Risami said:


> Does alot of people that has similer problem as me had any luck that they didn't develop stones but just the infection?


 
Josie didn't have stones but bladder inflammation. At the time, she was eating some dry food (but mostly wet food) and not really drinking much water. I'm not even really sure what caused it but I think stress played a role, as it was around the holidays and it was pretty crazy. 

It's also possible the wet food I gave her contributed to it. Turns out it was pretty high in carbs. I stopped giving dry food and changed to better food. 

I also gave her something for the pain (but no antibiotics) and then placed several water bowls around the house to encourage her to drink. She was fine the next day. I used PH strips to test her urine to make sure it went back to the normal range.


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## laurief (Jun 22, 2008)

Urinary tract conditions can be difficult and costly to diagnose, and they can be complicated. The three most common urinary tract complaints are crystals/stones, inflammation, and infection. They can occur singly or in any combination. 

UTI stands for urinary tract infection. In this case, there is some infective organism in the urinary tract - often bacterial - that can usually be cured with the appropriate antibiotic. However, not all antibiotics can kill all bacteria, so it's important to have a culture run on a sterile urine sample to identify the specific bacteria present. That's the only way that a vet will be able to prescribe an antibiotic with known efficacy against that specific bacteria. Without a culture, all the vet can do is prescribe a broad spectrum antibiotic and HOPE that it will be effective against whatever infection MAY be present. Once the cat is on an antibiotic, however, it's extremely difficult to get an accurate result from a urinalysis or culture when testing for infection, because the antibiotic may have already killed off enough of the bacteria to cause it to not show up in the urine sample.

Cats have naturally acidic urine, and acidic urine is inhospitable to most bacteria. For this reason, it is not a good idea to give a lot of extra water to cats who are prone to UTI's. Water dilutes urine, making it less acidic. Less acidic urine makes a more inviting environment for bacteria. This is why cats who drink a lot of extra water, like diabetics, hyperthyroid cats, and cats with kidney disease are more prone to UTI's.

Then there's inflammation of the urinary tract. This is quite common, and is frequently associated with stress. When inflammation is present WITHOUT either infection or crystals/stones being present, it is called Interstitial or Idiopathic Cystitis, meaning "inflammation of unknown cause". In these cases, an anti-inflammatory may be given, and the owner should be directed to do everything possible to minimize or eliminate potential sources of stress for the cat.

ALL cat urine contains crystals, but in most cats, these crystals are so microscopically tiny that they pass through the system normally and without problems. In some cats, however, these crystals can clump together and form larger crystals or stones that can abrade the urinary tract and/or cause blockages. Abrasions leave the urinary tract vulnerable to bacterial infections, and blockages can cause death if not cleared quickly. 

For cats who develop problems with crystals/stones, extra water is extremely important. In this case, the extra water produces extra urine, and extra urine keeps crystals flushed out of the system before they have a chance to clump together and cause problems.

In all types of urinary tract problems, the cat should be kept OFF of kibble entirely. Kibble is dehydrating, and dehydration will concentrate the urine (among other detrimental physical effects). All cats should be kept properly hydrated, but this is especially important for cats with urinary issues. A canned, homemade, or raw diet is best for cats.

Laurie


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## RatAndMop (May 10, 2011)

Very informative,thanks...You had me a little worried when you said that a cat with UTI should not get a lot of water..Whew...

My 3 yr old boy had 3 stones removed from his bladder in May...I'm feeding him twice daily,(wet food with water mixed in and some raw). I hope to eventually get him to at least half and half. Does this sound about right to you??


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## laurief (Jun 22, 2008)

RatAndMop said:


> Very informative,thanks...You had me a little worried when you said that a cat with UTI should not get a lot of water..Whew...


A cat prone to developing UTI's shouldn't be given a lot of *extra* water, but ALL cats should be kept properly hydrated.



> My 3 yr old boy had 3 stones removed from his bladder in May...I'm feeding him twice daily,(wet food with water mixed in and some raw). I hope to eventually get him to at least half and half. Does this sound about right to you??


1/2 And 1/2 what? Canned and raw food? If so, that sounds fine to me. But if I had a boy with bladder stones, I'd be inclined to keep mixing plenty of water into his food, as well.

Laurie


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## RatAndMop (May 10, 2011)

laurief said:


> A cat prone to developing UTI's shouldn't be given a lot of *extra* water, but ALL cats should be kept properly hydrated.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry,yes,half canned and half raw. He gets fed wellness core twice per day with aprox 2 tbsp's water in each meal and he laps it up..

Just wondering...I usually mix the raw into the wet. Should I be only mixing in organ meat occasionaly and chunks of chicken,turkey,beef mainly?

And what are the thoughts on pork??


Thanks...


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## laurief (Jun 22, 2008)

RatAndMop said:


> .I usually mix the raw into the wet. Should I be only mixing in organ meat occasionaly and chunks of chicken,turkey,beef mainly?
> 
> And what are the thoughts on pork??.


If you're feeding raw, you should be doing it in a nutritionally balanced manner, not just giving random amounts of organs and meat chunks. I feed Raw Prey Model, but there are other raw diets that people use, as well. I recommend you visit the Raw Food forum here and read up on raw options so that you can provide a properly balanced raw portion of your cat's daily diet.

I feed pork as part of my cats' raw diet, but I always freeze it for at least 21 days before feeding it to kill off any parasites present in the meat.

Laurie


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## texasgirl (Feb 27, 2013)

Is Raw Prey Model an actual company or are you making it yourself and feeding by the cat's raw prey model? If it's a company can you post a link. I'd like to get some information on it. Thanks!


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## laurief (Jun 22, 2008)

Raw Prey Model is not a company. It's a feeding practice wherein the nutritional profile of natural prey is replicated as much as possible by feeding appropriate animal parts. RPM consists of approximately 80% muscle meat, 10% edible bone, 5% liver, and 5% other secreting organ (kidney, spleen, brain, testicle, thymus, etc.).

You can read a lot more about RPM by reading the Raw Food forum here and by Googling "raw prey model'.


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## MowMow (Nov 6, 2010)

Raw Prey Model (or Frankenprey) is a really easy way to feed raw.

A basic equation tells you how much your pet should be getting each week. Once you know how many total ounces they eat in a week then you divide it into 80% muscle meat, 10% bone, 5% Secreting Organ, and 5% non secreting organ. There is your shopping list.

I fed (and will feed) Book like this for months before MowMow's surgery. In another few months I'll switch Book and Neelix both back to Raw Prey Model. 

I take one day a month and process/bag/freeze all the food for the upcoming month. THen each night I take the baggie out for the next day. THen in the morning I only have to heat up 1/3 (I feed 3x per day) of the contents of the baggie and feed it. 

Nature's Prey Model


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## texasgirl (Feb 27, 2013)

laurief said:


> Raw Prey Model is not a company.


 
Right, I knew that. I just hoped there was an actual raw food company called "Prey Model" so I could just buy it instead of having to make it myself. LOL.

I really don't trust myself to make it correctly, being so busy and living alone.


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## Risami (Nov 18, 2007)

texasgirl said:


> I used PH strips to test her urine to make sure it went back to the normal range.


 
May I ask where do you get these ph strips?


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## texasgirl (Feb 27, 2013)

Risami said:


> May I ask where do you get these ph strips?


 
I bought them online at www.onlynaturalpet.com 


It gives me peace of mind to have them on hand.


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## Risami (Nov 18, 2007)

My cat got retested got a urinalysis so they can be sure the infection is gone, appearntly she has a slight infection I may not get medicine til monday. I wish i knew what i'm doing wrong I feel like i'm doing something wrong I can't aford fancy food like everyone else they could get 1 week worth of good food then after my next pay check 1 week of good food but they mostly get mid/low quality. 

I feed her moist cat food even add spring water to it to give her a little bit more water in her.


what could i be doing wrong


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## texasgirl (Feb 27, 2013)

I'm sorry to hear she still has a slight infection. If you're giving any kind of fish-type food I would stop doing that.(Phosphorus levels above 1.2% can be a cause) Also, if there's spinach in it I would stop giving that food, too. There's no proof spinach can contribute to UTIs but play it safe for now.

Is she in pain? If she is then you can go to a vitamin store and buy Cantharis 30c. It's only about $7.00.

Take a deep breath. Cats pick up on stress and become stressed themselves, which won't help the situation. Breathe...


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## Risami (Nov 18, 2007)

She is not in pain no stones but just a small infection, I make sure there is no fish in her food or spinich. maybe its the change in diet causing her stress. She probably still use to dry feeding but i have weened her off or not use to her feeding schedule. I could be stress too worried about bills and such and doing my best to keep my cat on her diet with all things going on.

I reallly don't know how to prevent this if this is an occuring thing now, I'm using spring water instead of tap as well but she is not a water drinker sadly. clean litter box too. if its my stress i don't know how i can stop stressing


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## texasgirl (Feb 27, 2013)

You can purchase a calming spray for her. That might help.


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## Risami (Nov 18, 2007)

what are the most safe products to use? Ireally don't want to get an unsafe calming spray for her


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## texasgirl (Feb 27, 2013)

Risami said:


> what are the most safe products to use? Ireally don't want to get an unsafe calming spray for her


Feliway is a good product to use. You can buy at Petsmart or Petco. I use Nature's Miracle No Stress calming spray. (has an herbal extract formula that's safe and natural)


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## Risami (Nov 18, 2007)

Well found out the food she was eating did have fish i had to go else where on some sites to find. now i dn't know how to switch her food :\ she is finicky very finicky that is probably why she got an infection. i don't want her to get the fatty liver disease saying you eat this because cearlys he won't eat her new food i bought her . don't see how its easy to transition them even if i put a little bit and mix it in. followed the transition site it fails but this vet bill is going sky high if this keeps up


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## texasgirl (Feb 27, 2013)

I feed Wellness Core (not regular Wellness) and it's fish-free. It is a little expensive, their 5 oz cans are $2.09 here in Texas. Are you in the US? They like the turkey and duck formula.

Have you tried Merrick Purrfect Bistro selection? They're about $1.69 for a 5 oz can. The more finicky cats seem to like it.

Good luck!!


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## Risami (Nov 18, 2007)

currently doing a wellness core bought 3 cans when i open the can at first and gave her a bit she ate it but after that scraped it like its litter box, i have treid merrick she did not like it much . I am wanting to get 12 ounce cans it be nice if wellness core is a 12 ounce can


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

closing - the Orbax question has been answered


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