# Angie had her kittens!



## Megan1216

Yes, Angie had her kittens. I don't know when, we were on vacation. Earlier, she came leaping twards us, we look at her tummy, & my mom asks me if the cat was Angie because we didn't recongnize her, because her stomach was small. She had dark red disharchge from her area where the kittens came out, a cat book said this was normal, unless it was green or bright red, but it's dark, the normal. So, she had her kittens!     

One thing concerned me is that she was here for an awful long time today. Shouldn't she be with her kittens? She finally went off into the bushes like normal, but shouldn't she have been with her kittens?


----------



## Ianthe

Just go ahead and answer the questions I asked you in the PM here, so everyone else can see the answers.  Because they are probably all going to ask the same things.


----------



## Jeanie

Yes, I have questions, and I would imagine everyone does. Go ahead and answer Ianthe's questions, and if we have more, we'll ask. I hope you prepared a warm comfortable place for her and the the babies.


----------



## Megan1216

> I hope you prepared a warm comfortable place for her and the the babies.


Yes.


----------



## ChiliBean

congratulations on the kittens =)


----------



## Megan1216

*was she hungry *
Yes.
*Did you find where she had the babies......*
No, but I have a good idea.
*Are you feeding her and does she have fresh water close to hand.....*
Yes.


Thanks everyone for the info. I think I might know where they are. I'm not sure. I'll do more looking once it cools down (it's 90 here).


----------



## coaster

And of course pics of the nest and the kittens!!


----------



## Ianthe

Catlover, it is REALLY important you find the kittens and make sure they are all ok.


----------



## Megan1216

Ianthe said:


> Catlover, it is REALLY important you find the kittens and make sure they are all ok.


Oh I know. I have a pretty good idea where they are....one problem.....it's severely weedy, the only way to see is to sickle the weeds; which I can't do incase I could accidently sickle the kittens.


----------



## Ianthe

It's really not good for the kittens (and Angie) to be out in the weeds.....it's too dangerous. :? Can you move them into your garage, or a spare room, or someplace where they can be protected and watched over?


----------



## ChiliBean

yes please move the kittens it gets cold at night and the kittens cannot yet regulate their body temperature


----------



## Scribbles

I hope the kittens are ok and you have managed to get them to a warm and safe place.

Please let us know how they're all doing?

Take care

Sx


----------



## Megan1216

Sorry, I haven't updated yet. Well, the weedy patch is full of hidding places. The problem is, I can't explore it.  We live in the country, & I don't know what's in them. My dad can't even go in them. He will have to somehow cut the weeds down, of course when we find the kittens, & we take them in to get adopted. I, unfortunatley don't have a spare room, & the garage, she would upset my dogs, plus my dogs would upset the kittens by barking.   Heather Sharada, not a grassy area, weedy area with tons of places to hide. There are places to hide where even animals can't find them. I think I've located them, but haven't seen them, meaning I know the place. Every day Angie goes there & comes from there, she used to hang out in a different area. I'm sorry I took so long to update.


----------



## TxnKats

I'll tell you this now. You really, really do need to find out where they are so you can soon help socialize them. If you wait too long and don't socialize them until you're ready to catch them and find homes, you really run the risk of the kittens being very scared of humans, feral, unsocial. Which will a) make catching them HARD and b) finding them homes hard. I understand they might be hard to find, but if you're taking on the responsiblity of Angie as "ours" then you have a responsiblity to do what's right by her and the kittens. So, do please make an effort to find them and make sure they are okay and socialize them.


----------



## Jeanie

catlover, TxnKats is right. It's important that you touch the kittens daily, and talk to them, and in a few days, pick them up. Make sure you do this before their eyes are open, so that they don't fear human beings. Otherwise, there will be four or five more feral cats in the neighborhood. Perhaps if you explain this to Dad, he'll see the necessity of clearing away the weeds in the area. And, if possible, have a nice, sheltered, *safe,* cozy place near the house for the little family.

Thanks for the update.


----------



## Scribbles

Thanks for the update. As Jeannie and TNX cats said its very important that you can find these kittens

Good Luck

and keep us updated

Sx


----------



## Megan1216

I promise I will do everything I can for the kittens. Tomorrow, I'll pull out the weeds, then get some snowboots on (they are high to protect me), then I will look. Tonight, though, I will shine a flashlight around the area to see if I can see them. I have an idea! I have a cage, I can put the kittens in there, then I can place the cage on the porch, but make sure Angie can get in and out of it. I promise I'll do all I can. I'll keep you updated.


----------



## Ianthe

Yes, it is really important that you socialize the kittens by handling them alot....or you will have a big problem when you try to get them homes. 8O 

Also, I am just curious, are you still seeing the racoon you told me about around? I was thinking about it last night and it makes me really woriied about the kittens AND Angie. I know you said Angie is able to run away from it, but if it comes after her babies, she is not going to run and leave them...she will stay and try to protect them....and a cat is no match for a racoon.  

Keep the updates coming!!!!!


----------



## Megan1216

I haven't seen the racoon yesterday. last night, today yet. We'll see about tonight. I know it wasn't around because Angie's food was left in the bowl, & our garbage wasn't torn up.


----------



## Megan1216

We've located Angie's kittens! So, been that they are still around, the kittens are probably about a little over a week old. I know thatbecause the day we got home, Angie had bloody disharge which my cat book told me is normal the day after her kittens. I'll keep you updated daily. We've cleared a little bit of the weeds. It was hot so we had to stop.


----------



## Jeanie

I'm glad you found them! You should get them out of the weather, however.


----------



## Megan1216

Well, actually where the kittens are at, it's shady & cool. So, they are protected. My mom said, been that they are a week old, she doesn't want me handiling them. I think it's because then my brother would wan't to handle them, then there would be these different human scents on them & Angie would probably aband them.


----------



## Jeanie

If you wait much longer, they will be hissing at you. Visit them at least. Mother won't abandon them. If she thinks they're in danger, she'll move them.


----------



## Megan1216

I've been clearing some of the weeds. I have to find the sickle to clear the weeds where the kittens aren't at to get to them. I should have it cleared in like two days. I know that is a terribly long time. My dad went in the area of the kittens two days ago, Angie cam running at my dad, basically telling him to back off. :lol: I don't blame her. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Ianthe

How are they all doing? Make any more progress?


----------



## Megan1216

Well, my brother saw three kittens!  One white, one Angie's color, & one orange & white. I don't know if that is all of them. Tomorrow, I'll get up at 8:00am Eastern time, then go through the weeds when the bugs aren't out & see if I can find some.  Maybe in a few weeks Angie will bring them out with her, if she feels it's safe enough.


----------



## Megan1216

Neko-chan said:


> Did you get the new kittens neutered?


No, there only about a week or two old.


----------



## Megan1216

No, only because I won't be keeping them. Before they get adopted out to people, the shelter will neuter them automatically. Angie will be though.


----------



## Jeanie

I see that Angie has a collar. Has she always had that, or did you get it for her?


----------



## Megan1216

I got the collar for her, she didn't come with it.


----------



## Jeanie

Well, then, it looks as if she's definitely a stray, and not someone's pet. So, I guess she's yours now.


----------



## coaster

This is a really interesting story I'm following. Thanks for sharing it with us, catlover_2004.  

(how about some pics of the kittens? :lol: )


----------



## Megan1216

Your welcome! Yes, I'll try to get pics!


----------



## Ianthe

Have you been able to handle them at all?


----------



## Jockette

oh yes, it's after 8am EST!! I can't wait for an update on Angie and her darlings


----------



## Jockette

Neko-chan said:


> [quote="catlover_2004":2cj9wsxx][quote="Neko-chan":2cj9wsxx]Did you get the new kittens neutered?


No, there only about a week or two old.[/quote:2cj9wsxx]
But you are going to get them neutered in the future, aren't you?[/quote:2cj9wsxx]

Just a little background from previous threads that catlover_2004 has made about Angie...

catlover came across this cat thinking she belonged to one of her neighbours. Excited and happy, she named her Angie since she would visit every so often. Due to allergies, she cannot own a cat so having Angie come visit her every so often is kinda like having a cat. She went to asking around to her neighbours about the cat and turns out, she might be a stray. So she bought a collar and wrote a note hoping someone would give her a call. A little while later, she notices Angie is pregnant and after returning from vacation, Angie's stomach was smaller.

So it's not really *HER* cat but it is because she's doing anything she can to help her. I must add that catlover is a young lady (12, if I'm correct? sorry if I'm wrong) and to be a young lady and taking responsibilty for a cat and kittens, she's being very heroic!


----------



## coaster

Dittoes!!


----------



## Megan1216

Jockette said:


> I must add that catlover is a young lady (12, if I'm correct? sorry if I'm wrong) and to be a young lady and taking responsibilty for a cat and kittens, she's being very heroic!


Thanks!  Actually, I'm 11 but that is ok.  No update yet.


----------



## Ianthe

When's the next update?


----------



## Jockette

catlover_2004 said:


> Jockette said:
> 
> 
> 
> I must add that catlover is a young lady (12, if I'm correct? sorry if I'm wrong) and to be a young lady and taking responsibilty for a cat and kittens, she's being very heroic!
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!  Actually, I'm 11 but that is ok.  No update yet.
Click to expand...

Man, and I was going to say 13! I've always wanted to say something always mistaking you for just a little bit older. You seem like a bright girl, I guess homeschooling for you is two thumbs up =)

Anyway, back to the topic - you didn't go out this morning?


----------



## Megan1216

I tried, but when I got up, I went out, even at 8:00am EST, it was so hot and humid, I could hardly breathe. 8O I hope the kittens & Angie are ok. Right now it's raining, thundering, & lighting. I might go check on them right now. But tomorrow definatley, storming, hot, whatever I will check on them. Tomorrow NOTHING will stop me.  Angie was back today.  She may not hang out for long if my brother keeps scarring her! 
:evil: :x :x :evil:


----------



## Ianthe

Poor babies.  I hope the storm doesn't last long.  

Your darned brother! :twisted: (And to think- I always wanted a little brother growing up! 8O :lol: :lol: )


----------



## Megan1216

:lol: 

Back to topic again, even if it's still raining, thundering, lighting, bascially storming, I will check on them. I have to.


----------



## Jeanie

They have to have a warm, cozy shelter, catlover. Those things, plus food, are absolutely necessary for young animals to live. A chill can kill a kitten. You'll have to provide some sort of shelter, even if it's just a large styrofoam box with a door cut in the front, the lid as a floor, and an old bathroom rug for comfort. If you provide privacy, shelter, food, and comfort, I believe Angie will move her kittens there. Perhaps you'll have to borrow a humane trap to catch Angie. Then you could gather the kittens. (Wear leather gloves. They might scratch.) Would Dad consider building a small enclosure? You could put the shelter in there.

I don't want to seem bossy, catlover. I just want the kittens to live, as you do. They just can't do without shelter.


----------



## Megan1216

I'm going to build a box for them like you suggested. I'll work on it tonight.


----------



## alicia

Is it still raining? I think that would be the best time to go out since its not sunny. Its probably humid, but probably not really hot. Can you go out right now? I do too think you should find them like very soon so that they dont become feral. And everything is wet now, so I think it would be easier to step on top of the weeds because their probably like flexible since their wet.


----------



## Jeanie

I found a link to a very simple way to make a shelter, complete with pictures. I hope it helps.

http://www.all-creatures.org/ak/feral-shelter.html


----------



## Megan1216

Thanks for the link Jeanie. Actually, my brother knew I was going to check on them, so he did it for me instead, & he said that the kittens aren't in the spot anymore. BUT, Angie keeps hanging out in back now, & the other day, my brother said that while she was heading twards the back, he said he saw something that she was carrying in her mouth! 8O I will built the shelter for them. I'll start on it tonight. Just wanted to update you. Oh, you'll love this! My aunt has been wanting an indoor cat for a looong time! Maybe she'll take on of Angie's kittens, if they make it!


----------



## Jeanie

That sounds great! I hope all works out.


----------



## Megan1216

Jeanie said:


> That sounds great! I hope all works out.


Thanks! Me too!


----------



## ForJazz

Just wanted to say good luck with everything. I know this is more than you bargained for.


----------



## Megan1216

ForJazz said:


> Just wanted to say good luck with everything.


Thanks!


> I know this is more than you bargained for.


Yeah, but you know what, I'm happy. I enjoy everything about pets! Heck! I love pets so much that I enjoy cleaning up after them! :lol:


----------



## Ianthe

You do need to et Angie spayed ASAP, because she is able to become pregnant almost immediately after giving birth...you don;t want ANOTHER litter to deal with! 8O


----------



## ChiliBean

> You do need to get Angie spayed ASAP, because she is able to become pregnant almost immediately after giving birth...you don;t want ANOTHER litter to deal with!


Yes you definately need to get her spayed having another litter could possibly even kill her


----------



## Jeanie

catlover, have you seen the kittens yet, or are you going by the glimpse your brother had?


----------



## Ta3339

Cat lover -- I know i am coming in late here.. but i have been watching since the beginning. 

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE get those kitten in!!!! Those poor babies are either not going to make it, or they are going to be afraid if you by the time you get them. I know it's hot, but try. I wouldn't let anything stop me from getting them (except orders from mom and dad, always listen to your parents  )

Good luck!!

Please let us know soon


----------



## Megan1216

I know I want to look for them but but it's so hot here that my parents said no.  I told them how important it was and they wouldn't let me.


----------



## Jeanie

Has anyone, other than your little brother, actually seen the kittens? Kim is right. They're in danger. You said your Dad is an animal lover. I'm surprised he hasn't gone looking for them.


----------



## Heather102180

How hot is it and how far away from the kittens are you? I just don't get why someone won't go out there and rescue the kittens. Yeah, it's hot here too but if you wear light clothing and take some water, you can stay outside for a decent amount of time. Is the "hot" weather the only thing stopping you? I guess I really don't understand. Do you have to walk miles in the heat to get to the kittens? Please do explain.

I guess my point is, you wanted badly to have this cat and you have her and now have to take all responsibility for her and the kittens.


----------



## Ianthe

Catlover, if you guys are hot, think about how hot the kittens and Angie must be. :? 

I know it's hard though, because you do have to do what your parents say...but I don't understand why they aren't more willing to help those kittens or Angie. Has Angie been to the vet yet?? She should really go in, for shots, etc., but she is also going to need to be spayed, SOON, or you will have more kittens on the way. 8O


----------



## Megan1216

The heat, plus I have head pain, I don't feel good AND it's so hot that I can't even breathe when I go out there. Now, Angie re-located the kittens so I have no way of telling where they are at. They can be anywhere from my shed that is open to my neighbors barn which is two houses down. 8O 8O 8O 8O Trust me, I want to find them so bad....I'm mad because of the weather. Right now I can't take the heat. It's like 100 degrees here. I hope noone is mad at me for this. I feel terrible not being able to get her kittens. If I had say so on what I should do, I would go out. But my parents said "no it's to hot out. we know how important it is to but the heat is life threating. when it cools down maybe tomorrow you can look for them." so I can't go against my parents. But tomorrow, I'll look around. It's not supposed to be this bad tomorrow. I hope the kittens are ok. I know Angie is because she came by today. Hopefully, the kittens are in my neighbors barn. I'll keep you updated.


> You said your Dad is an animal lover. I'm surprised he hasn't gone looking for them.


 Me too.  Nope noone else has seen the kittens but my brother but that was when they were in another area.  Why does she change her area? I mean where she had them the second time was safe. 

I promise I'll try my best. I put a box out there but she would NOT go near it. She would run away whenever she saw the box. Plus, it downpoured the other day & it got soaked. Even though it was in a sheltered place, the wind was as bad as an F0 tornado that it blew the rain at the box.  I am lost. I don't know what to do. Plus I'm worried something got the kittens. Do you think the humane thing to do is when we take the kittens to the shelter is to take Angie too? I'm sure she won't get adopted because she is older & they put stray cats to sleep because they could have rabies.  I don't want to do that. Please help me out. I'll keep you updated.


----------



## Heather102180

It's always cooler in the morning time.....you could try then??? You posted on July 11th that it was too hot to look for them. It's been 11 days now and you are saying it's still too hot? It's been 100 degrees there for this long?? I'm in Illinois, farther south than you, and I know the weather has not been "too hot" to go out in for that many days....

I'm really not trying to pick an argument. I'm really just confused that it's been that hot for that long and that's been why you can't see the kittens?

Adoption shelters _do_ take adult strays. In fact I'm in the process of hopefully adopting a three year old now that came to the shelter as a stray in May and they are not putting it down. Not all strays have rabies. I called my shelter and they keep healthy adoptable cats alive for 1 to 2 years before putting them down so Angie could have a chance to get adopted if you take her to the right shelter.

Catlover, I know you are young and have to obey your parents. You are good for that.  Just don't get your hopes up about those kittens....they will most likely start wandering away and you will probably never find them. I don't want to sound mean, just telling it how it is...

Hopefully a cooler day comes along for you soon......... :wink:


----------



## Megan1216

Heather, I'm shocked to. Yes it has been that hot for this long. Even in the morning & night! 8O 8O 8O 8O Tomorrow is the only break we get.


----------



## coaster

Let's remember cats DO raise kittens out-of-doors. They ARE pretty good at protecting and providing for their young. I'm concerned that there's too much pressure being put on catlover in this thread. She's just one person and not yet an adult, to boot. Put yourselves in her shoes and think of how it would feel with all these adults giving advice on what to do or not to do. She's the only one who's actually there. Can we just cool it a little and assume she's doing the best she can under the circumstances? Just my opinion, of course.


----------



## Heather102180

Tim, the forum seems to be mostly of the adult population so it only makes sense that it is adults giving the advice.  Also, I agree that cats raise their own young all the time in all kinds of weather but if catlover is so persistant on finding the kittens I would have thought it'd happen by now since she did claim Angie as hers, therefor taking responsibility for her and the kittens. 

I guess what I don't understand is where her parents come into play here. At that age I highly doubt my parents would 1)let me even have a cat if I was so allergic to them like cat lover is or 2)let me have the cat and then make me soley responsible for it and it's kittens. I feel bad for catlover, I really do, I can tell she really wants the best for the kittens....I just wish her parents would help her out in this situation because she's too young to have this much worry over her head. Ya know?


----------



## ForJazz

I checked weather.com and weatherbug for michigan. It's supposed to be in the 80s there -- for the last several days and for the next coming week. I live in Wisconsin and the weather is usually very comparable -- it should be just fine to go out tomorrow. Good luck. If it were me I would take water and make short trips of it. Douse myself in water if it was too hot. It shouldn't be that big of a deal if you take precautions. Plenty of people are out and about in the summer weather.  

I think it's been a long time since the kittens were born. If no human socializes them, they will be feral and unadoptable. I know they aren't yours, so don't worry, I'm not trying to pressure you. 

I don't know about the shelter thing -- I might consider it if it were a good shelter. But if your shelter "puts cats to sleep because they MIGHT have rabies"....that is not a good shelter.


----------



## Megan1216

Well, the last few days hasn't been in the 80's. It's been hotter. My parents are helping me, they are just concerned for me. But, since it was cooler, my mom went with me to look around a little & so far nothing!     I feel like I am not doing the best I am for the kittens even though I am.  I feel like I'm a terrible person for not being able to find the kittens yet.


----------



## Heather102180

Nah, you aren't a terrible person! Angie is their mother and I'm sure she is taking care of her babies just fine. You're doing the best ya can!


----------



## Megan1216

Thanks Heather! I hope the kittens are ok. I appreciate everyones help with this. I owe all of you a big thank you!


----------



## alicia

I can understand about weather problems though. Its been in the hundreds here for like the past week and it isnt going away. Its staying at like 97-101 and its really humid. It is hard to breath...I was just outside today watching my dog while she was doing her business so she wouldnt dig out of the yard, and I was burning up and having trouble breathing since it was so humid and hot. Even though its 20 degrees hotter than there, I can still understand how she is saying its hard to breath and its too hot to go out, but she still needs to get the kittens


----------



## dmcwlvssr

been reading the posts and was just wondering what the status is? Hugs to you Angie how about finding a rescue group to help you find the kittens, not the shelter. Just a thought. Prayers being sent to the mum & babys!


----------



## Megan1216

dmcwlvssr said:


> been reading the posts and was just wondering what the status is? Hugs to you Angie how about finding a rescue group to help you find the kittens, not the shelter. Just a thought. Prayers being sent to the mum & babys!


Thanks. Well, we've relocated them.  I have a question. I'm not sure if I've asked this before. If I did I'm sorry I don't remember. If I go by them, will Angie move them again?


----------



## Nell

If you've moved the kittens (btw, where did you move them to?) and if it is possible that she can move them again, she probably will.

I'm not sure if its been mentioned, but I think it would be best if she and the kittens were kept inside until the kittens could be adopted out. If you are unable to keep them in your home, then maybe you could find someone or a rescue that would be willing to foster and socialize Angie and the kittens.

Each day that the kittens live outside and away from human contact, its going to make them harder to tame, and give them less of a chance of being adoptable. Since you know where the kittens are now, it would be the perfect time to get them somewhere safe and where they can be socialized. Maybe you or your parents could call your local shelter and see if they will take them? or maybe you know a friend or relative who has a spare room and would be willing to care for them until the kittens can be adopted?

You're really doing a great job so far with Angie and her kittens. You're a very responsible young lady.  Keep up the good work!


----------



## Jeanie

I'm anxious to know what colors you have, and if their eyes are open, ears up, etc.........Are they walking? All the news, please.


----------



## Ianthe

I'm glad you found them.  Any news???


----------



## Heather102180

So you found the kittens?? How many?? Are you excited to see them for the first time? How'd you relocate them?? Where are they! Fill us in! I think you should take pics of the babies!!! :lol:


----------



## DylansMummy

Pssst Heather - Angie is the kitty hun  hehe


----------



## Megan1216

I'm sorry I've taken so long to respond. Now I said we've relocated them- meaning we know where they are at. Sorry if I confused anyone. Also, now we think the kittens are dead or abandoned.  The things on Angie which the kittens drink from are swelled, she is fat again, which means she hasnen't been feeding her kittens, plus my neighbor's daughter said that Angie has been sleeping in their barn....without the kittens.   Also, Angie is going. My Dad doesn't want her here anymore because he is afraid she is a rabies carrier even though she doesn't show signs & she is peeeing on the grass....which is killing it. He still refuses to deny that some of the spots are from the dogs. But Angie is going my Dad said. But I was trying to get her in her carrier today so I could ask my neighbor if he wanted her, but I used a blue lead, she flipped, didn't go in the carrier, got away, I found the lead under our truck so Angie must be ok. I hope she comes back though. I feel terrible. 
 

I was just trying to help. I guess she didn't know that.


----------



## Heather102180

Sorry to hear about the kittens. So sad. Sorry your dad wants to get rid of her. She's like your pet right...you feed her and stuff? But she doesn't come inside so how bad could she really be to your dad?


----------



## Ianthe

Catlover, are you absolutely SURE the kittens are dead?I know your parents haven't wanted you looking for them, but if you could, and you were able to find them, maybe some of them could survive.

As for your dad and the Rabies thing....why don't you guys just get her her vaccinations? Then she can't be a "rabies carrier" *HUGS*


----------



## ForJazz

This is really really sad. Poor Angie. I hope that instead of just getting rid of her, you can just get her vaccinated. But hopefully she'll go to a good home.  

This wasn't your fault -- you were dealing with the only means you had. Don't feel bad. All you can do is try your best.


----------



## emma_pen

Well, seeing as Angie is not getting speyed, I think it would actually be better for her to go somewhere where she'll get the life she deserves.

CatLover, you've done a good job considering your age & your parents telling you not to. If she's fat and her mammary glands are swollen, she could be pregnant already! You have got to plead your parents to get her out of there as soon as you can!!!!! 

Even if you borrowed a trap from a feral society, they could neuter & release her?!

Ems


----------



## Ianthe

> If she's fat and her mammary glands are swollen, she could be pregnant already!


A definate possibility. 8O


----------



## Megan1216

WE HAVE FOUND THE KITTENS!!!!!!!! YAY!!!  We saw them. We put them in a box. There are two calicos, & two torties. Here is the sad part, Angie only took two kittens. I have the two kittens in the garage now. Oh you wouldn't believe the joy I felt.    We'll try to relocate the other ones. Their eyes are open. They are so small & cute! I have a pictures of them. I'll get those updated asap.

edited by mod


----------



## Ta3339

I am soooooooooo glad you got the kittens. 

What do you mean angie took 2 of them. She took them back out into the wild?


----------



## ForJazz

catlover_2004 said:


> WE HAVE FOUND THE KITTENS!!!!!!!! YAY!!!  We saw them. We put them in a box. There are two calicos, & two torties. Here is the sad part, Angie only took two kittens. I have the two kittens in the garage now. Oh you wouldn't believe the joy I felt.    We'll try to relocate the other ones. Their eyes are open. They are so small & cute!
> I have a pictures of them. I'll get those updated asap.


I'm surprised all the kittens are different from the colors you originally thought they were -- at the beginning of the thread you said this: 



catlover_2004 said:


> Well, my brother saw three kittens!  One white, one Angie's color, & one orange & white.


Strange. 8O


----------



## Ianthe

I'm confused...what do you mean, she took 2 of them?


----------



## Jeanie

Catlover, I'm sure you're very excited. I'm so glad the kittens are safe.!


----------



## Megan1216

I know I can't believe the moved them. At first she just took two of the kittens back to the wild. But then hours later she got the other too. I don't know why they are different colors. :? But I'm happy.


----------



## Ianthe

That's great!  

So where are the kittens now? Are they back in the brush again somewhere?


----------



## Megan1216

Yes in brush again. She picked them up, & put them on the other side of the porch. :roll:


----------



## Ianthe

At least they are closer to your house now  

Have you guys been handling them at all?


----------



## Heather102180

So now what is your plan? Where do you go from here?


----------



## Megan1216

Ianthe,
Yep I've handled them, picked them up, then pet them and everything I was supposed to do.  

Heather,
Well, we are going to wait until 8-10 weeks & see what happens. If we are able to catch them again, we'lls ee if my neighbor wants one, and if he does & doesn't take them all or if he doesn't want one we'll take them in to a shelter who won't put them down. 

Ummm, Angie is staying probably BUT my mom & dad don't want to and don't want me to invest money into her incase we have to take her in (if she keeps peeing on our lawn and becomes a problem).  And my mom & dad don't want me to incase Angie gets killed.  They are only keeping her around because they know how much I want a cat. But, for the winter, I'm going to see if my dad can build her a little room in the pole barn for the winter.  So that would be a good thing. I'll keep you all updated. I'll also get those pictures up. Infact once I'm done with this post I will. Does anyone know of the Gremlins the movie? If so, do you know Gizmo the Gremlin? If so, the one little tortie looks JUST like Gizmo. :lol: So I called him Gizmo. He responed a little to it too. :lol: Also he LOVES to play & explore. I was dangiling a little leaf in the box and he was going after it. That little Gizmo....... :lol:


----------



## Megan1216

Here are pictures of only two of Angie's kittens. The black one is Gizmo & the calico is totodile (my brother picked totodile. Totodile's nickname is Totie :lol.







To bad that I only got the picture of those two. I wish I got a picture of the other two, too. But they really look the same. Both calico kittens look the same & both Tortie calicos look the same. Hopefully the two in the picture will have a home together if we take them in.


----------



## Jeanie

Have you considered having Angie spayed? Here's a link to low cost spay/ neuter clinics by state. I'm sure there's one near you. Otherwise, there will be 4-6 more kittens in a few months. She can get pregnant any time now.

This is a sticky in Cat Chat:

http://www.catforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10229

The kittens are sweet.  I hope they get good homes.


----------



## Ianthe

I hate to say it catlover, but if you guys can't/won't get Angie spayed and to the vet for shots and regular vet care, than it might be best to find her a different home


----------



## ForJazz

catlover_2004 said:


> if he doesn't want one we'll take them in to a shelter who won't put them down.


I guess I don't really get what the plan is. If the kitties were in my yard, including Angie, I would have done research and phone-calling to figure out their fate first thing. In this thread, first you said that Angie was staying with you and she would be fixed, then you said that you might take her to the shelter, but your shelter euthanizes older cats "because they can carry rabies," now it's as easy as taking them to a no-kill shelter? It sounds like things are very jumbled.


----------



## emma_pen

Those kittens are gorgeous, but its so important they go to responsible homes as they are all girls too! I also say that if your parents won't get Angie speyed, she'll be better off chancing it at any shelter. She could be pregnant already, and you don't want her to be a kitten machine, do you? I hope you can find the right thing to do


----------



## Megan1216

ForJazz said:


> catlover_2004 said:
> 
> 
> 
> if he doesn't want one we'll take them in to a shelter who won't put them down.
> 
> 
> 
> I guess I don't really get what the plan is. If the kitties were in my yard, including Angie, I would have done research and phone-calling to figure out their fate first thing. In this thread, first you said that Angie was staying with you and she would be fixed, then you said that you might take her to the shelter, but your shelter euthanizes older cats "because they can carry rabies," now it's as easy as taking them to a no-kill shelter? It sounds like things are very jumbled.
Click to expand...

Yeah I wanted to fix her & my parents were going to let me, but then the re-decided. Which turned into no.  Unfortunatley, there are no "no-kill shelters" around here. All that is here is HS (Humane Society) & one other place. None are "no kill shelters".  Things are jumbled.  Things were up & down, then setlled, then up & down.


> Those kittens are gorgeous, but its so important they go to responsible homes as they are all girls too! I also say that if your parents won't get Angie speyed, she'll be better off chancing it at any shelter. She could be pregnant already, and you don't want her to be a kitten machine, do you? I hope you can find the right thing to do


I'm still trying to talk to them about it. There is this program by me called TNR (Trap.Neuter.Return). I'm trying the best I can. I'll do everything I can for the kittens. I know they are all girls because tortie & calico boy kitties are rare.


----------



## Jeanie

catlover, have you checked the list of low cost clinics I gave you? I know how young you are and what a responsibility this is, but if you do some chores for the neighbors, and ask Mom and Dad for jobs that are above and beyond the call of duty, you might be able to raise some money, and it's _possible _ that Mom and Dad will help. I did suggest this near the beginning of the thread, but sometimes we all put things off until matters become urgent. Remember, if she encounters a tom cat she can get pregnant right away.  Do you have any aunts and uncles who might give you little jobs? A couple dollars here and there add up. Good luck.

p.s. I have been watching the newspaper for a child who wants to help me outside, mostly being a "gopher." (Go for this and go for that.) Everyone I speak to about this tells me "The kiids don't want to work any more." Many people would be glad to have a bit of help.


----------



## Megan1216

Yes I did check the links out. I have enough money for the fee so I don't need to do chores. Good suggestion/idea though.  I'll keep you all updated.


----------



## Heather102180

What's the status on Angie and the kittens? I'm surprised you haven't talked about them lately....


----------



## Jeanie

Yes, it _has_ been a week, and we care about this situation. This has been a long thread. Of course we want to know what's happening.


----------



## Ianthe

Yeah- what's the latest???


----------



## Megan1216

Sorry I haven't updated. There hasn't been really anything to update...until now. I go outside to feed Angie right, well, we have a shed by the garage that was left open because the doors are broke. What kind of discovery do I find in the shed? Angie's kittens! 8O So, Angie's kittens are now in the shed. The good thing is, that it's raining so they have shelter. Plus they have shelter from predetors because there is stuff in there and they are hidding. 


> This whole thread makes me very very sad.....there is nothing but a disaster story here - one stray female has produced 4 stray female kittens and you all know what that means for next year..........plus she is probably already pregnant - I feel so very very sorry for Angie and her brood.......if only she could be surrendered anywhere responsible..........


I am trying the best I can :wink: I think I have some homes lined up for the kittens.  Also, I think my parents are going to let me spay her again. They are leaning twards it but they are not sure. Oh, the one Tortie nibbled on some kitten food which is good. They are 5 weeks old approx.


----------



## icklemiss21

Catlover, while they are in the garage - get more pictures of them!

I can't believe we don't have hundreds of pictures - the kittens are so cute - we want to see how they have grown!

Glad they are doing OK and that you might get Angie spayed and have homes for the kittens - I hope you go out talking to them and stuff - because they will get more feral by the day - and may not be able to be homed if they don't get human attention when young.


----------



## Megan1216

I know, I wanted to get pictures today but they kept hiding on me & the memory card was full. :roll: I know I know that is no excuse. :lol: Actually, I went outside and talked to the kittens earlier and I also played with them a little. I bought these small balls for Angie & she doesn't like them, well I used them to play with the kittens. They are very curoius, that is for sure.


----------



## Heather102180

The kittens allow you to play with them yet they hide just when you want to snap a picture? Strange. :? I'm starting to believe the kittens don't exist?


----------



## Megan1216

Heather,
They most certaintly do exist. I'm a little offended that you would think I would lie about _that_.  What I meant by playing is I rolled the ball to them, but they did run. Maybe is I should not of called it playing?  After all, where did I get the picture from?


----------



## ForJazz

catlover_2004 said:


> After all, where did I get the picture from?


Just being honest -- the picture could have come from anywhere, really.


----------



## Jeanie

catlover, I would moisten the dry kitten food and add canned to the gruel. Then, when the kittens are more interested in Angie's food, you don't have to moisten it. Of course, Dr. Jean believes all canned food is best. Be sure to provide water, and handle the kittens as much as possible. Sit quietly near them for at lease 15 minutes at a time several times a day. When they're hungry, move the food a bit closer to you. They have to be socialized.


----------



## Heather102180

I didn't mean to offend you. I just thought by now we would have seen thousands of pics of Angie and the kittens with you having a new digital camera and a full memory card (as stated on another thread.) I'm just not as beleiving as others may be. Thread seemed fishy from day 1. I'm just trying to get out of my gullible years.


----------



## 4cats&counting

Catlover you are doing the best you can! Keep up the excellent work! 

We all should remember that she is just a young lady, and she is trying her hardest, she can only do so much, remember shes not 18..Her parents have to help her, weither its getting Angie to a rescue or shelter or what ever needs to be done...


----------



## icklemiss21

Also, and not to sound mean - if any of them are going to go to a kill shelter, the younger and cuter (and less feral) the kittens are the better - and if Angie lets you touch her enough to put a collar on - she is really cute - they will probably be adopted quickly.

Do you remember around Chistmas my boss rescued a mother and the only kitten that was left alive or not trapped and adopted yet. He brought them to the local humane society - and while the kitten was young and the mother cute - the HS said they had just been left feral too long and wouldn't be adoptable because of it. If he had brought them in a few weeks earlier - that would not have been a problem.

If you are going to find them homes and your parents won't let you give them the help they need - please consider giving them to a shelter (and there are lot of people who don't 'own' shelters but rescue a number of cats so they are not put down - so they still have hope in a HS) because they will need shots and Angie will need to be spayed SOON.

Its geat that you are helping them - but sometimes they need more help than you can give them. When I was about your age, a neighbour died - her son asked my mum if we would feed the cat until he came back with a carrier 2 days later. So I begged and begged to be allowed to take care of it because I wanted a cat - a month later my mum made me take it to a shelter - he had sold the house and never came back. It wasn't fair on Bluey to live outside and only get attention for 30 mins after I came home from school.

We got him to the Shelter - then got in contact with her son finally who didn't want him in a kill shelter (because he had so much to do with the cat before) and asked us to return him to the breeder - he was pure bred.

So we returned him to there to live out his remaining years - he seemed much happier and was getting the care he needed... she sent me a photo and thank you letter from him 2-3 times a year until he died 4 years ago.

Sometimes - even though it is hard for us to do something - its for the best. They will be able to spay Angie (and eventually the kittens) without any cost to you - it sounds better than having 5 female cats making more litters of unwanted kittens.

I don't mean to sound harsh - but if you can't provide everything they need - they really might be better off in a shelter - even a kill one.

(Oh and make sure if you do take them to the HS that you take us some new pictures first - I am dying to see the other two and how big they all have gotten! And you will want some to remember your kittens by too  )


----------



## Megan1216

Heather102180,
Well, my parents don't want me touching the camera a lot. They let me a couple times for Angie, the two kittens, & my dogs & rabbit, & fish. They said once we download the picture I can get more pictures of them.



icklemiss21 said:


> if any of them are going to go to a kill shelter


I don't know if I've said this before but they won't be going to a kill shelter, they'll go to a no-kill shelter.  



icklemiss21 said:


> If you are going to find them homes and your parents won't let you give them the help they need - please consider giving them to a shelter (and there are lot of people who don't 'own' shelters but rescue a number of cats so they are not put down - so they still have hope in a HS) because they will need shots and Angie will need to be spayed SOON.


Well, my parents said "no" again (they decided again last night) because they don't want me spending my money on spaying incase something happens to her. But here is something they _will_ let me do, if there was a place here that would spay ferals/strays for free, then they would say yes. I saw in a different state that a place spayed/neutered ferals/strays for free. 

[quote"icklemiss21"]I don't mean to sound harsh [/quote]Harsh? Not at all. :wink: 



Heather Sharada said:


> Heather maybe it goes with the name Heather but I also don't feel right about this thread.
> 
> Catlover you need to enlist someone else that is an adult - other than your no doubt well meaning but reluctant and unreliable parents who you tell us keep changing their minds - and get these kittens and cat caught and surrendered.......if the kittens are 5 weeks old now then in about 1 more week the cat that you call Angie will be pregnant again.....and if you leave it much more than 10 days the kittens will be feral and untamable..........You are not helping them by just feeding the mother.
> 
> These animals need to have a responsible person taking charge of them - not an infatuated child - sorry but that is how I feel. They are not toys. I also don't wish to offend you but it is time for some action NOW!! Get your parents to read this thread.


I'm trying the best I can. I've always wanted a cat, & thought this was a good idea having Angie around, but I never though I would fall into this mess of her being 
pregnant and having babies. I'm trying to do the best, I really am, but you are right I have to have a responsible adult. Also, what do you mean by "infatuated child"? :? (Not to sound mean). 



ForJazz said:


> Just being honest -- the picture could have come from anywhere, really.


Well, that is an actual picture.  

Please everyone, 
Remember I'm trying my best. :wink:


----------



## icklemiss21

Sorry - I must have got it wrong - you just said on the last page that there was no 'no kill' shelters near you so I assumed that there was only kill shelters.

I know you are doing your best - but like with me and Bluey - your best isn't good enough for the needs Angie has - I know you have to follow your parents rules and can only help when they let you etc - but Angie may require medical care as well as being spayed... the kittens need socialisation and shots etc - if you get them when they are young enough they can become happy indoor kitties.

I think what Heather Sharada meant is kinda what I am saying - we all know how much you want to have a cat - but with the way things are being done with Angie (because of the rules you parents have set and you have to (and should) follow, you are doing more harm than good. 

My mum and sister are allergic to cats so I wasn't allowed to keep Bluey in our house - once his owner's son sold her house and he couldn't stay there anymore - my mum decided it was hurting him too much living outside even though I desparately wanted to keep him. It was for the best for him to go to a shelter - the same as Angie. 

If you are going to give them up to a shelter - why have you waited so long?


----------



## Megan1216

Oh, I thought there weren't any "no-kill" shelters by me, but with research I found some. I don't know if I'll take her in. I'm looking for places that will spay/neuter ferals/strays for free. My parents will let me do that.

Note to everyone: I've got more kitty pictures. I've only got four, two of Angie & one of the one calico an one of the one tortie. The others were hiding. i took more but because they weren't good ones I only managed to get 4 good ones.


----------



## Megan1216

Ok I was wrong about having 4 pictures....instead I have 5.  

Angie:








Angie again: (I know the two pictures of her look the same but they are not)








Kitten 1:








Kitten 2:








Kitten 3:








Ok, I've got one more of her on the other computer that I'll get to you tomorrow. I'll get tons more. Trust me. :lol: I'll be known as Catlover, the photo maniac. :lol: LOL!


----------



## Zalensia

They are lovely catlover, thank you for posting the pictures 8)


----------



## Jeanie

Thank you for sharing those pictures with us! We'll look forward to seeing more.


----------



## Ta3339

sooo cute, but it looks like kitten 2 &3 are the same kitten

can't wait till can get them taken care of!


----------



## ForJazz

They are -- they have the exact same markings -- down to the shape of the black on the nose, the white tiny stripe up the middle of the face, and the little orange blob in the middle of the black on the forehead. Same cat. Oops.


----------



## Zalensia

When you dont see the kittens very often im sure it is an easy mistake to make.
Catlover I agree with the others, Kittens 2&3 are the same. But that has a good side cause it may mean 1 less kitten to rehome!


----------



## Jeanie

Oh, this explains why they are the same kitten! 

catlover said:


> Note to everyone: I've got more kitty pictures. I've only got four, two of Angie & _one_ of the _one calico_ an one of the one tortie. The others were hiding.


Then she said she had five pictures, not four.

I guess the blur was an attempt to get the tortie on film. That's all right. We'll see it later.


----------



## ForJazz

Heather Sharada said:


> The photos are nice - the kittens look older than 5 weeks to me though.


You can see that the eyes are starting to change color -- does that usually happen around the same age all the time? Maybe that can be an age-indicator.


----------



## Megan1216

I have a question-does anyone know of ANY shelters/organizations/ect here in Michigan that will spay strays/ferals for free? I know some states have shelters/ect that do it. My parents would let me do that if it was free.

Also,
yes they are the same kittens, 2 & 3. The other calico & the other tortie were hidding on me.


----------



## icklemiss21

Catlover, what are you going to do with her once she is spayed? Just keep her as an outdoor kitty?

It really would be better for them to be taken somewhere that they can be socialised. The chances are, if Angie let you put a collar on her, that she is not too feral to be adopted to someone that will keep her warm and fed inside, which after all you have read on here, you muct know if for the best.

She is very cute and I can't imagine anyone NOT wanting her or the kittens.


----------



## Megan1216

Yes she would be an outdoor kitty but in the winter I'll have my dad build her a room in his polebarn. I go out there everyday with her. But first I'll have to find someplace that'll spay strays for free. They sometimes do that. *Fingers Crossed*


----------



## Jeanie

There are 10 pages of organizations at this google link:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=fr ... gle+Search


----------



## ForJazz

catlover_2004 said:


> yes they are the same kittens, 2 & 3. The other calico & the other tortie were hidding on me.


Just curious -- why did you say "kitten #2 and kitten #3" then? *scratches head* 

Honestly -- if she let you put a collar on her then she could probably get adopted if you have a no-kill shelter nearby. It would be the best thing to do -- living outside and in a barn in winter is no life for a socialized cat, or any cat for that matter.  Somehow I don't think that even if your dad decides to build something, she will stay in it. She goes where she pleases now, she will do it then. I beg you to call the no-kill shelter. Every day is precious time lost and she could already be pregnant again. Please do what is best for these animals.


----------



## DylansMummy

Just a question (I have been following this thread for a little while now)

Why is everyone suddenly getting on to CatLover to give up Angie when in the very first post elsewhere she stated that she would like to keep her as an outdoor cat and everyone seemed to support her?

Also I think it is extrememly harsh of those insinuating that CatLover "made up" Angie. YES she may be young but why on earth do people feel the need to tar every young person with the same brush?

From what I can see she is doing her utmost in a very difficult situation. Not many children would find a pregnant cat and try to take care of it to the best of their abilities like this. Ok it may not be perfect, it may not be what you would all do but some of you could try and be a little more supportive I feel.

Just how I feel. As my Mum says "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all"

Hayley x x x


----------



## Zalensia

Thank you for that post Hayley, its something I would have loved to have also said.

Ive been talking with Catlover by PM and we managed to get the pictures done. Anyone who works with children will know even a true story can be full of incosistancies. Catlover can only do what her parents allow, if her parents wont let her get Angie spayed, wont let her take her to a shelter then there is nothing we can do but support catlover.
I also agree that when this thread first started out it was very positive, and now I cant help but feel it has turned negative.

Catlover for a child you are doing a great job, keeping looking for a free spay clinic you will get there in the end!


----------



## Zalensia

I will leave it to catlover to state her age.
If her parents wont allow her to do something there is nothing we can do about it.
Yes I would support catlover litter after litter because I know she is at least caring for them to the best of her ability. If a shelter is full or wont do anything there isnt much she can do, besides take them to a kill shelter which everyone is telling her _not_ to do.


----------



## DylansMummy

I am glad that I am not the only one left despairing a little Zalensia - thank you.

I know how old Catlover is - the same age as my niece. And I would be so proud of her for doing all she could in a situation like this. It is difficult for children to act upon their beliefs when they are always answerable to parents who do not necessarily agree with them.

As we all should know sometimes adults are not the best at "doing the right thing". You only need to look at a lot of the rants posted on this forum to realise that. Catlover in my opinion is being VERY mature about this. She is trying to act on her beliefs and respect her parents wishes. She can do no more.

I am glad that she has been in PM with people who also seem to be offering her as much support and advice as possible.

I fear that when adults try to stiffle a child's development of their own beliefs and attitudes towards the world then we just turn them into un-caring disillusioned adults. There are too many of them as it is.

Hayley x x


----------



## Jockette

in the first few pages [on my settings, it's page 4] I took a stab at her age.. actually, I wanted to guess a little older. =)



catlover_2004 said:


> Jockette said:
> 
> 
> 
> I must add that catlover is a young lady (12, if I'm correct? sorry if I'm wrong) and to be a young lady and taking responsibilty for a cat and kittens, she's being very heroic!
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!  Actually, I'm 11 but that is ok.  No update yet.
Click to expand...


----------



## Jockette

DylansMummy said:


> Just a question (I have been following this thread for a little while now)
> 
> Why is everyone suddenly getting on to CatLover to give up Angie when in the very first post elsewhere she stated that she would like to keep her as an outdoor cat and everyone seemed to support her?
> 
> Also I think it is extrememly harsh of those insinuating that CatLover "made up" Angie. YES she may be young but why on earth do people feel the need to tar every young person with the same brush?
> 
> From what I can see she is doing her utmost in a very difficult situation. Not many children would find a pregnant cat and try to take care of it to the best of their abilities like this. Ok it may not be perfect, it may not be what you would all do but some of you could try and be a little more supportive I feel.
> 
> Just how I feel. As my Mum says "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all"
> 
> Hayley x x x


I agree! I have two sisters her age + a couple years older and I must say that I'm pretty proud of catlover for taken as much action as she possibly could. If I went back to her age, I don't think I would've been very responsible as she has been throughout this whole situation.


----------



## Zalensia

no either.
I wouldnt have posted on a catforum.
I would have thought "yay kittens, I hope theres more"


----------



## Jeanie

Hayley, Thenk you, and God bless. You have said what so many of us were thinking. Mods have to be rather careful. Believe it or not, the members have much more freedom. 

catlover has done everything I suggested thus far, including building a shelter for Angie and babies. Now, if her parents will not allow her to spend her money to spay Angie, I hope she'll use the lists of free spay/neuter clinics I found, or, if necessary, take her to a no-kill shelter. What more can we expect?


----------



## Megan1216

Thanks for your support to the people who support me. I'm 11. Jeanie, thanks for the links. As a matter of fact, I'm looking at them right now. Also, I have more pictures.


----------



## Jeanie

We'll look forward to seeing them.


----------



## Megan1216

Ok here they are!  

The whole Bunch:








Tortie:








Calico:








Angie:








Calico:








Calico:








Calico:







Aren't they cute?  Enjoy!

P.S. Be sure to check the lounge for pictures of my dogs & bunny!


----------



## icklemiss21

Very cute - its about time we had some decent photos


----------



## alicia

8O They are ADORABLE! I think thats wierd how they came out, 2 torties, and 2 calicos. Their so cute! Do you know if their boys or girls yet? I dont know anything about feral cats and stuff, but since she was able to get that close to them to take a picture, doesnt that mean she could probably touch them then? I have no idea, so, thats why I'm asking


----------



## Zalensia

I would pretty much garuntee they are all female.
Which means you have to try and work extra hard for a spay clinic.

Forgive me if this has alrdy been asked, whats the plans for the kittens? Still trying to get your parents to decide?
You're doing a great job, well done :thumb


----------



## Ta3339

Wow.. they are sooooooo cute. 

Good luck, I know you are doing all that you can!


----------



## Megan1216

Thanks icklemiss, alicia, Zal. Zal, the plans are to take the kittens to the no kill shelter, and for Angie I'm looking at the links Jeanie gave me for spaying for free. If I can't find any, then I'm probably taking her in to the shelter. But I'm still looking. I've called the rescue & they said they would take them but we told them the mother cat might stay with us.


----------



## Jockette

ooooo, they are getting big but they are still in the fuzzy kitten stage! soo cute =)


----------



## Megan1216

Jockette said:


> ooooo, they are getting big but they are still in the fuzzy kitten stage! soo cute =)


They do grow fast don't they?


----------



## Zalensia

catlover_2004 said:


> Thanks icklemiss, alicia, Zal. Zal, the plans are to take the kittens to the no kill shelter, and for Angie I'm looking at the links Jeanie gave me for spaying for free. If I can't find any, then I'm probably taking her in to the shelter. But I'm still looking. I've called the rescue & they said they would take them but we told them the mother cat might stay with us.


Cool, im sure it was in here somewhere I just didnt see it


----------



## Megan1216

YAY! Oh I'm so excited!     Thanks to Jeanie's links, I found a humane society that will do TNR (Trap Neuter Return) for free!!!  Isn't that great? Also, they take animals in so if we get her spayed there, we'll take the kittens there.  Now all I have to find out is if they are a no kill shelter.


_Edit Zalensia- I know your happy, but I removed a few of your smilies  _


----------



## Scribbles

They are very cute kittens


----------



## Zalensia

Oh thats great news, well done!


----------



## Jeanie

catlover, I can't tell you how proud I am that you are following up on the spaying, and being responsible about those precious kittens. :luv They look so healthy and clean! What a great mother Angie has been--with your help. You have every right to be very proud of yourself. The pictures are absolutely beautiful, and the kittens are gorgeous little girls! I know everyone would like to say "Awwwwww"


----------



## Jeanie

I have gone back to see the separate pictures. (My computer is slow!), and I'm afraid I have a favorite! Shame on me, but I think the first Tortie is the cutest. They're all cute, but tthat little face is so precious!


----------



## coaster

Those are beautiful little kittens, catlover, and great pics, too!!


----------



## Ianthe

That is GREAT news, Catlover, and ADORABLE pictures!


----------



## Heather102180

Cute kittens! Catlover I know you said thanks in a previous post to those that are supporting you. I hope you realize that we ALL support you and are only trying to throw out as much advice as possible for the good of these kittens and Angie.

Also, I know your parents are flip flopping on the idea of you keeping Angie because she pees on your dads lawn and stuff but do they realize now that they have FIVE cats that are THEIR repsponsibility because you are their child? Someone said earlier that you should have your parents read this thread and I 110% agree because you having to call places and deal with the life of a cat and 4 needy kittens is a whole lot of responsibility and you should not be doing it alone. Please Please make them read this thread so you are not carrying such a heavy burden of making sure these kittens survive.....


----------



## emma_pen

Those pics are adorable! How old do we think the babies are now? They look old enough to go to the shelter to me. Its so fantastic that you have found somewhere who will spey Angie for free, looks like things really will work out in the end. I hope you can get it done soon :wink:


----------



## OsnobunnieO

I really think that if you're going to take the kittens to a shelter you should do it sooner rather than later. You say they run and hide from you because they are not socialized... the older they get without much human contact, the harder it will be to find them homes.

You really need to work hard on socializing them so that when it is time to give them up they've got the best possible chance at finding a home.


----------



## Jeanie

Jessie's right, catlover. She's absolutely right.


----------



## Megan1216

Well I emailed the place and they haven't gotten back to me.

I try to socialze them. They are about 5 weeks right now. So, when they turn about 6 weeks, we will take them in. Just to be sure.

One question:
What if they attempt to spay her and she is already pregnant again? She doesn't act/look it.


----------



## TxnKats

catlover_2004 said:


> Well I emailed the place and they haven't gotten back to me.
> 
> I try to socialze them. They are about 5 weeks right now. So, when they turn about 6 weeks, we will take them in. Just to be sure.
> 
> One question:
> What if they attempt to spay her and she is already pregnant again? She doesn't act/look it.


They can still spay her, just abort the kittens.


----------



## Ianthe

Catlover, do you mean that you will be seperating the kittens from Angie at 6 weeks? That is a bit young to leave mom. :? 

You are doing a WONDERFUL job, by the way!!


----------



## icklemiss21

Ianthe said:


> Catlover, do you mean that you will be seperating the kittens from Angie at 6 weeks? That is a bit young to leave mom. :?


That was why in an earlier post I said she should take all of them in - I thought they would stay with Angie until they were a bit older.


----------



## Jeanie

I don't think that emails get the same attention that a phone call, letter, or personal appearance would get. These organizations have so many requets. You have already got an answer. Now it's time to call and make the appointment. 

If you don't take Angie right away, she *will* be pregnant. There will be no doubt. It's possible within days after the kittens are born. But now it's more than just possible. Allowing her to be outside without having been spayed will assure a pregnancy any day now.


----------



## emma_pen

I think it is perfectly feasible to take the kittens away from her at 6 weeks. Remember, these are not safe and secure breeders kittens. The longer they are out there, the more danger they are in and the less likely it is they will get homes. I know kittens should stay with mum til 12 weeks in an ideal situation, but this is not an ideal situation. As long as those babies can eat, they can go, in my opinion. Harsh it might be, but its the only way forward. Also, if Angie is pregnant, she should still be speyed. For the same reasons.


----------



## Megan1216

Yep the kittens are going because now they are eating a dead baby rabbit that Angie brought them, so they are old enough.

Great news-I got to pet the kittens. They didn't shy away. There was only two kittens I couldn't pet because they were eating the bunny.

Ummm, I'm so stupid to have realized this today but I'm also disappointed. The Humane Society I found was in Seattle Washington. I went under "map" to get directions and it said Seattle Washington. I thought it was in Michigan because it was under "free spaying in michigan".  

But there is more good news, I emailed one place (they didn't have a number) to see if they have a number.

M


----------



## Ianthe

emma_pen said:


> I think it is perfectly feasible to take the kittens away from her at 6 weeks. Remember, these are not safe and secure breeders kittens. The longer they are out there, the more danger they are in and the less likely it is they will get homes. I know kittens should stay with mum til 12 weeks in an ideal situation, but this is not an ideal situation. As long as those babies can eat, they can go, in my opinion. Harsh it might be, but its the only way forward. Also, if Angie is pregnant, she should still be speyed. For the same reasons.


Good point


----------



## Megan1216

The two places don't do free spaying. But, one of the places recommended me to one who does so I'm waiting for them to email me back with info and a number


----------



## debo

Thise little kittens are sooooooooooo adorable!


----------



## Zalensia

I think catlover said she emailed them because she cant find a number for them, asking for a number to speak to them.


----------



## Megan1216

Thanks debo.

Heather Sharada, yes I have a carrier.



Zalensia said:


> I think catlover said she emailed them because she cant find a number for them, asking for a number to speak to them.


That is exactly what I said.


----------



## Megan1216

Totodile came out of the shed with Angie so I went up to Angie & Totodile and petted them both. Mainly I petted and handled Totodile.  Poor Angie got mad because I was mainly petting Totodile and not Angie. :lol:


----------



## Megan1216

I was playing with Totodile and Mattie (the other tortie besides gizmo). The other two were hidding (steph and gizmo). They had fun and I also fed them by hand.

No response from that place yet. :? I'm going to see if those other places I emailed who recommended me to the "Zimmer Foundation" (that is what it is called) if _they_ have the number.


----------



## Jeanie

TLC / for The Love of Cats
Contact Kitty Zimmer at [email protected], or phone 734-663-8000. Our mail
address is The Zimmer Foundation, PO Box 130944, Ann Arbor, MI 48113. ...
tlconline.org/ - 3k - Cached - Similar pages 

(Google reference)


----------



## Megan1216

Thanks Jeanie.


----------



## Lisa 216

Catlover,

I have been reading this thread all along with great interest but have not commented until now.

I have to applaud you for all the effort you've given to helping Angie and her babies. You have been persistent, compassionate, resourceful, and very mature indeed. Many adults would have given up long ago! 

Having just tried to help a feral stray myself, I know that it can be very hard to find the assistance you need. I couldn't find anyone to help me trap the kitten in my yard, and by the time I located a trap to borrow, she was gone.  

I do hope that you are able to find a place for the kittens and a group that will spay Angie. Best of luck!!


----------



## Megan1216

lymekaps said:


> Catlover,
> 
> I have been reading this thread all along with great interest but have not commented until now.
> 
> I have to applaud you for all the effort you've given to helping Angie and her babies. You have been persistent, compassionate, resourceful, and very mature indeed. Many adults would have given up long ago!
> 
> Having just tried to help a feral stray myself, I know that it can be very hard to find the assistance you need. I couldn't find anyone to help me trap the kitten in my yard, and by the time I located a trap to borrow, she was gone.
> 
> I do hope that you are able to find a place for the kittens and a group that will spay Angie. Best of luck!!


Thanks Lymekaps! 

The kittens have dissappeared.  They disappeared a few days ago. Well, we did hear a hawk that was very close so maybe he got one and the others got scared and ran away. Only because Angie wasn't with them 24/7.  

Ummm,
The Zimmer Foundation is in Ann Aubor and my dad doesn't want to go all that way to Ann Aubor with gas prices evil: :x) so I've found other local places thanks to a link in the feral cats section of the forum.


----------



## debo

That little calico is sooooooooooo cute it is now my screensaver! I am going to be getting a new kitten on Wednesday. I hope there's one like the calico there! Sure wish I lived near you!


----------



## Heather102180

The kittens are gone? Is Angie gone too? And I am confused...do you have a kill shelter around there but you just don't want to take them there? I think at this point a kill shelter would be better for them rather than them trying to survive on their own....because they won't survive long.

I guess all shelters could work differently but my shelter near my home is a kill shelter BUT they try to keep their cats for atleast 2 years before they are put to sleep. And kittens are easier to adopt out than adult cats so it sounds like the kittens would have a chance even if they were taken to the kill shelter. 

What are you going to do if you find them again???


----------



## Heather102180

Oh yes, also when did they disappear?? Because in this thread posted on Friday http://www.catforum.com/viewtopic.php?p ... ht=#231603 you are asked for cat food recepies....but if they were gone, why would you be asking for these, rather than posting here in devestation that they were gone...


----------



## Jeanie

This is tragic. Mother cat does not stay with the kittens 24/7 after the first day. Even then she has to leave them briefly for necessities. It is not her fault. Kittens should not be outside.


----------



## Megan1216

Heather102180, maybe I asked so I can have the recipe for Angie. She is not gone. 

A few days ago I saw Angie near a wood log pile, and what do I see crawling all over Angie????? The kittens! 8O She moved them out of the shed for some reason. So they are safe now. We wanted to be sure that the kittens didn't need Angie's milk anymore. Ummm it will be a while longer befor we take them in because in September this shelter near me is having an adopt-a-thon---from 4:00pm-12:00am (midnight) Friday and Saturday 10:00am-4:00pm so then the kittens will be adopted definatley.  

Debo that is nice of you to have the calico on your screeb desktop.


----------



## Heather102180

> Heather102180, maybe I asked so I can have the recipe for Angie. She is not gone


Allright then...no need to say it in that "tone."

Why do you say the kittens are safe because they are out of the shed and now living on a wood pile? How is that more safe?

Are you also waiting until September to have Angie fixed?


----------



## Megan1216

Heather I wasn't trying to be or sound mean. Not at all. They are safer because they are _in_ the wood pile. It has places for them to go to hide. Also, they have access to the shed if they need it.

Am I waiting until September? Now it depends been the my dad doesn't want to travel to Ann Aubor. :x There is a place close to us that may do it. It gets me soooo mad when my dad changes his mind like this! :evil:


----------



## emma_pen

Is there nobody else on this forum that lives close enough to catlover top go and get these poor kittens and Angie? They need out of there NOW!


----------



## Heather102180

Many people have suggested your parents read this thread. Have they???? I think they need to....


----------



## DylansMummy

It's ok asking CatLover to get her parents to read this thread but they may have refused for whatever reason. I remember trying to get my parents to listen to anything I said at CatLover's age was a major trial.

Hayley x x


----------



## Jeanie

We're all worried about Angie and the kittens, but upsetting catlover is not going to help them. Obviously, her parents are not concerned about them, and catlover is not allowed to take her money out of the bank. She's not old enough to travel alone, so everything is now up to her parents. Either that or she'll have to call the closest shelter, kill or no-kill, and ask them to pick them up. 

I thank God my parents allowed me to keep the strays I found. I would not want to be in catlover's position. However, catlover, you're going to have to do something fast. Angie is probably already pregnant, and you'll have to go through all of this again.


----------



## Megan1216

I'm only 11. I can't drive, I can't disobey my parents (it wouldn't be right). My parents don't want me to pay for her spaying. So, what can I do? Ok, well, my parents don't believe that the "no kill" shelters are no kill. They believe they say they are no kill to assure people. So we'll just take them to the shelter five minutes away from us and they'll put the kittens and Angie down.

Can someone please lock this thread? Thank you.


----------



## Heather102180

I don't understand why you are asking for this thread to be locked.

I understand upsetting catlover would make matters worse and that's not what anyone here is trying to do. I'm just saying that if I had a 11 year old daughter who told me she has a 15 page thread going on on the cat forum about her cat and it's kittens, I'd want to read that, being her mother and all. I wasn't really on forums when I was 11 but if I was, my parents would have _at the very least _monitored the ones I went on and inquired about issues I was responding too especially since this is a forum comprised of mostly adults....

I know catlover said her dad was upset because Angie was peeing on the grass...well....add 4 more kittens to the equation and he'll have 4 times the problem of pee on the grass. 

Angie could be prego again, that means she could have maybe 5 more kittens, so that is 9 kittens and 1 cat around the outside house. No one is telling catlover to disobey her parents. We (or at least I) am discussing the matter of why aren't the parents taking action onthis??!! It sort of angers me! The cats would be better at a kill shelter...the kittens would probably adopt out easy, and Angie needs fixed or taken somewhere that will fix her and try to adopt her out. Just voicing my opinion.


----------



## Megan1216

Thanks for understanding. Ok please don't lock this thread. I guess it would be better for it to be unlocked.

I emailed another person to see if they do free spaying.



> I know catlover said her dad was upset because Angie was peeing on the grass...well....add 4 more kittens to the equation and he'll have 4 times the problem of pee on the grass.


Well I found a spray to get rid of the spots. Thank goodness. I'll have my dad take the kittens in sometime this week.


----------



## Jeanie

catlover, I think we're all getting a bit testy because this thread had gone on so long, and there are no answers to the problem. Do what you can, as quickly as you can, so that you don't have another litter to worry about. The ideal time to make plans is the first day you realize there will be kittens. Time goes by so quickly; I know. What a hard way to learn about cats!

Would you mind answering the question everyone is wondering about? Have your parents read this thread?


----------



## EmmaG

Hi Catlover,

Well done for your kind actions in trying to find safety for Angie and her kittens.

Now I know your parents do not want you to use your own money to pay for Angies spay but how about this idea, I would gladly donate some of my own money to help pay for Angies spay, how much does spaying her cost? Unfortunately I am in the UK so the logistics of getting money to you is a nightmare, but how about if some of us do a little donation and pay a trusted member on this site who lives in the US who has a paypal account then that person could then send you a cheque payable either to your parents or the vets. I am sure with all of us concerned about Angie and her kittens it wouldn't take much to raise the money to at least get Angie spayed.

Come on everybody I am sure we could do this!!!


----------



## Cat Fancier

EmmaG said:


> Hi Catlover,
> 
> Well done for your kind actions in trying to find safety for Angie and her kittens.
> 
> Now I know your parents do not want you to use your own money to pay for Angies spay but how about this idea, I would gladly donate some of my own money to help pay for Angies spay, how much does spaying her cost? Unfortunately I am in the UK so the logistics of getting money to you is a nightmare, but how about if some of us do a little donation and pay a trusted member on this site who lives in the US who has a paypal account then that person could then send you a cheque payable either to your parents or the vets. I am sure with all of us concerned about Angie and her kittens it wouldn't take much to raise the money to at least get Angie spayed.
> 
> Come on everybody I am sure we could do this!!!


I thought about offering to pay for the whole spay using Paypal (within a reasonable price range) about 3 weeks ago when i first started reading this tread but as time has gone by i realized that the issue isn't really with the cost of the spay which is probably well within this family's financial means, but rather one man's stubborn determination to do things his way. (Heartless as it is) :roll: 

So yes on the one hand i want to help contribute for the sake of Angie and an 11 year old girl but on the other hand i don't like that i'd also be contributing to someone else's uncaring, callous, and cheap behavior. :? 

Does anyone else have this mixed opinion/reaction?

Catlover, you've done all you could do ( under the circumstances) but i really think that it would be a good idea for your parents to read this thread, all of it from begining to end before we do anything.


----------



## Jeanie

Catlover has the money to pay for the spaying. Her parents won't allow her to use it for that purpose.


----------



## Stephie

Catlover you are just a little girl, a very brave strong one at that but still just a child and you are right, you shouldn’t be disobeying your parents. You have to accept that you are fighting a losing battle with your parents here and unless something drastic happens nothing is going to change that. Sometimes part of growing up is showing courage in trying to do things (which you have done) and accepting that there are some things you can’t change. Sometimes we just have to know that we did our best.

I would suggest that you make one final effort and ask one of the forum members or moderators who you trust to write an email to your Mum and Dad on your behalf (which you can pass on so that you don’t have to give out any details) explaining that these cats need to be taken to a shelter. 

This whole situation is proving to be very stressful for you and the other members who are trying to help you and it can’t continue. I am sure one of the grownup’s here would be more than happy to write to your Mum and Dad and explain how mature you are being about this and how important it is to you.


----------



## ForJazz

Heather makes a good point -- if I were your parents, and I knew you had a 15-page thread about a huge burden that you felt you had to take on all by yourself, I'd want to know about it. I'd want to help you. It's true that if your parents don't help you get those cats out of there, the problems will multiply just as those poor kitties will. I don't understand their argument that the "no kill" shelters might not be no kill. NO shelter is completely "no kill" -- sometimes cats are unadoptable b/c they are too feral, or too ill, etc. But a no kill shelter cannot advertise itself that way if it euthanizes little kittens with nothing wrong with them. A fate of a shelter is much better than the fate of the kittens if they stay in a wood pile. Obviously Angie keeps moving them because she is a good mama and she knows it's not safe for them to stay in one place for very long. 

It was also a good point made by a few people that it's frustrating that this thread has gone on so long without resolution. It's hard to see something like this, and feel that it's hopeless. I honestly don't know what I would do if I were 11 years old and my parents wouldn't help me with something like this. You must feel alone and frustrated. I am sorry about all that you must be going through. 

Maybe you could make a thread in the "cats in need" forum and see if we can get a driving chain organized to pick up these kitties and bring them somewhere else. There are many users that live in Michigan -- I'm sure there is someone out there who would be able to get these kittens to Ann Arbor.


----------



## Megan1216

Thanks everyone for the kind offer of donating money, but as Jeanie stated & I stated before I do have enough but my parents don't want me spending it on her. I really do appreciate it though.

No my parents haven't read this thread yet. They don't want to. Why--I don't know.

Right now I recieved a response from an rescue who is working on getting the TNR program together but they don't do just spaying--the give distemper and felv (?) shots too.

I'll keep you updated day by day. Today she moved them closer to the house. I played and pet them and talked to them for a little bit. The kittens are sooooo cute!


----------



## Jeanie

catlover said:


> Right now I recieved a response from an rescue who is working on getting the TNR program together


Do you mean they are just getting organized? If so, Angie could have several litters by the time the program is up and running. :


----------



## Megan1216

I assure everyone she isn't pregnant. I know she could get pregnant but she isn't now. I've contacted several other places.


----------



## Heather102180

You say she isn't pregnant today but what's stopping her from becoming pregnant tomorrow? Not only does she have a good chance of becoming pregnant at anytime, pretty soon those kittens are going to be old enough to be pregnant. Imagine if those 4 kittens had 4 kittens themselves and imagine Angie has another litter of 4 at the same time. Catlover, that is 25 cats.......Time is running out. Why won't your parents just drop them off at the closest shelter? They'd be better off there. You mentioned your parents think a "no kill" shelter isn't really a "no kill" shelter. Well if he cares about that so much why he won't take them there, it makes me think they must care _somewhat _about the situation?? Really, what are they saying about the situation, do they care at all? Do they care you are caring this huge burden on yourself about calling shelters and whatnot?? I am so confused. This is quite frustrating to me and I'm not even there!!


----------



## Megan1216

My mom does care somewhat about that situation and would like to have Angie around--that is why we are emailing/calling places to see if they have TNR programs. Also, I want to wait until September to take them in because they would surley be adopted--you as well as I want that right?

I understand she could become pregnant tomorrow or anytime. Also, when this place is having this adopt-a-thon in September, they won't be old enough to be pregnant.


----------



## Jeanie

Catlover, I believe the earliest a pregnancy has occurred after the birth of kittens is *four days*. I was a breeder, and if I hadn't seen the breeding, I would not have known if my queen was pregnant! There's no way to know--on your own. The vet can't even tell until about 21 days! You wouldn't know for sure until about 8-7 weeks, when the kittens visibly move. 

I mean no unkindness, catlover. However, I am very concerned about this situation. Are you _really_ aware of how serious this is? We have supported you for a LONG time, and have advised you well. 

edit/addition Although the ideal time for a kitten to leave mother is 12 weeks, the shelters consider kittens at that age harder to place. And they don't have the money to keep all the cats and kittens that come in. They have to keep them moving.


----------



## Megan1216

I'm aware how serious it is. I wish I could do more. 



> Catlover, I believe the earliest a pregnancy has occurred after the birth of kittens is four days.


I never knew that! 8O 

I appreciate the support. I really do.


----------



## Heather102180

Catlover said:


> My mom does care somewhat about that situation and would like to have Angie around--


Then if she is going to stay your pet, take her to get fixed asap! I don't get it. Your family has other pets and knows the importance of it, right?

I am about to give up on this thread! :roll:


----------



## Jeanie

I added this to my last post. I don't know if you saw it.



> Although the ideal time for a kitten to leave mother is 12 weeks, the shelters consider kittens at that age harder to place. And they don't have the money to keep all the cats and kittens that come in. They have to keep them moving.


----------



## coaster

I understand that a person under a certain age needs to get parental approval to participate. So would not admin have an email contact for a parent? Maybe it's time for direct contact with a parent....sort of a "humanitarian" intervention on behalf of Angie and kittens.


----------



## mcfoster

The information about Angie and her kittens was sent to me by a rescue contact from CA. I live in SE Michigan and will be happy to go get Angie and her kittens. I'm a volunteer for Maine **** Rescue and have several local rescue contacts who may be able to take Angie and the babies. If not, I will foster them and find them homes. Our rescue works with a vet in Maumee, OH who will give me rescue rates for vetting and s/n.

Since I just joined this group, I don't know how to have someone contact me off list about the exact location of the cats and to make arrangements with Cat Lover to pick them up.


----------



## Ianthe

Oh my goodness, this is so wonderful!  Thank you so much for being willing to help-you must be an angel!  I'm sure one of the Moderators will have the information for you, or else you could try Private Messaging Catlover to get her information.


----------



## Jeanie

You can PM catlover_2004, and have her parents contact you. I think that would be the best way to handle it. I am so pleased that you have taken an interest in this little family. 

I don't know if catman has a separate email address for her parents. It is possible that he can reach them. This is the answer catlover has been looking for, so I would imagine she will respond. God bless you for caring! This has been a terrible worry for all of us.


----------



## EmmaG

This is such good news 

Thank you Mcfoster


----------



## Heather102180

Wonderful! Hooray for the cats!


----------



## Heather102180

Err, I've been thinking about this more and more. If Catlover's parents won't even read this thread when asked, it concerns me if they will even be willing to go through the "trouble" of making arrangements to have these kittens picked up....you know?

Plus, no offense at all to mcfoster but when you have a child (and hopefully the parents) involved with arrangements to essentially meet someone off the internet, you have to be totally sure that it is a legite meeting....Like I said, no offense to mcfoster but you have to be very very catious to make sure you are not scammed. So, with that said, I really really really hope Catlover's parents follow up (or even _begin to follow_) with the situation....


----------



## mcfoster

I've sent a message to catlover asking if she would have her mom e-mail me about Angie and the kittens. 

My rescue references have been given to the correct person so they can verify that I am who I say I am.

You can never be too careful regarding anything to do with children. Or people who say they are animal rescuers.

Thank all of you for being concerned about catlover and the kitties she is trying to help. I hope I'm able to help her in some way.


----------



## Ianthe

I can't wait to hear how this works out! *fingers crossed*


----------



## Jeanie

This is an unexpected blessing. Our thanks to whoever contacted mcfoster originally. You might have saved five lives. Thank you, and thank you, mcfoster. We'll be waiting anxiously for the outcome.


----------



## Heather102180

Ahhh! Catlover, you were just on replying to other posts! Surprised you didn't reply to _this one _too!! We are all anxious to hear a good outcome here!


----------



## Jeanie

I think that might have been catlover-forever, not catlover_004.


----------



## Jeanie

My mistake. She was online posting about her bunny and the hurricane. Perhaps she is waiting until this arrangement can be made before posting here.


----------



## Megan1216

Thank you sooooo much for the offer. But unfortunatley my dad said he doesn't want ANYONE that we don't know personally from a forum to come to the house. He said that sure the person says he is an animal rescuer but that my not be legiteamite.

I'm very sorry. I totally believe you are a rescuer and believe you want to help. I wish that my dad would see it the way I do. I finally said "These kittens and Angie are in terrible danger if something isn't done!!!! We can no longer wait until September and mom said that Angie can be spayed.". Well, he didn't know what to say. So, this week we will be taking the kittens in. I've tried emailing this place about a number to reach them at. Still no response. :?


----------



## Jeanie

Either catman or I can show you three references from this country-wide rescue organization. This person is a member in high standing in the STATE, and is very well respected by her colleagues. She became a member here only to offer her services, and understood completely when we asked for references. 

If a shelter sends someone to pick them up to PTS, will it be necessary for them to be acquaintances of your family? This is a chance in a lifetime. Imagine someone kind enough, with her status, being willing to *drive* to your house to pick them up! This is unheard of! Send me a PM if your parents want verification, or if you change your mind. I will provide references and I will personally call your parents if they would permit that. I feel humiliated. 

My deepest apologies to mcfoster, who spends her life rescuing and fostering cats. Her kind offer was above and beyond the call of duty. I would also like to extend my apologies to the other officers of this rescue organization who identified mcfoster. What can I say? Thank you for all of your good work. I can only guess at the number of lives your organization and you, personally, have saved. God bless you and your worthy mission.

We have done everything possible to help, to no avail. It seems noone wants help. How tragic. For now, I will close this thread. If there is any concrete news, we will either open this thread or start a new one. Thank you all for caring. Please pray for Angie and her kittens.


----------

