# Black kitten turning grey???



## demichan

Hello! One of my kittens was born a very sleek black but now at 17 days old he's started to sprout grey hairs around his eyes, mouth, chest and paws. Does anyone know what this could be? Is that normal coat development for a black cat or could he wind up a smoke or something like it? He also has very faint tabby markings.

For reference, his mother is a blue and cream ticked tabby Scottish Fold and his father is a seal pointed bicoloured ragdoll. In the litter we also have a blue/cream ticked tabby like mum, a golden ticked tabby like grandma, a blue and white bicolour tabby and a blue and white bicolour.

Attached are photos of the kittens and mum 

First are the two boys, the 'black' kitten, then our golden ticked tabby, mum, blue and white tabby, blue and white bicolour and blue ticked tabby.

I'd really love to know what little Archie might be if he's not black! <3


----------



## Arianwen

I posted here ages ago about the colour of one of mine. The tips of her fur are black or very charcoal grey - the roots are white / pale silver grey. At a glance she could be mistaken for black but when the sun shines on her, she is an awesome colouring in which tabby stripes can be seen. I was told by someone here that she is a "shadow" cat and I love that description.


----------



## catloverami

You've got a lot of color combinations here, and but neither one of the parents seems to have the 'silver gene'. My best guess is that he may be a "faulty black". A black smoke is where the roots of the coat are white and rest of the shaft is black. Black smokes often have a "ghost" tabby pattern that disappears when the cat's mature coat comes in.


----------



## demichan

Hmm, Archie does have faint stripes on his legs and tail, they've been there since birth. I assumed they were ghost markings and that they would disappear as he got older, but now this silveriness is happening.


----------



## marie73

Wow, your poor mom cat just turned a year old, too young and small to be having kittens. I hope you plan on getting her fixed.


----------



## demichan

marie73 said:


> Wow, your poor mom cat just turned a year old, too young and small to be having kittens. I hope you plan on getting her fixed.


Your kind advice is appreciated, but all cat literature I've ever read states that a queen should have her first litter between a year and a year and a half, depending on her heat cycle, and that it is bad for their health to have repeated heats with no mating. Skye is 14 months old, so she's at the ideal age.


----------



## librarychick

Having repeated heats with no mating can be frustrating for both you and the female - many breeders will instead 'simulate' mating using a q-tip in order to stop the heat. Breeding back to back is MUCH worse than the frustration of one or two missed heats, especially for such a young kitty.

I hope that unless you're a starting up reputable breeder (have a specific breed, have a mentor, are health testing, etc.) that you will have her spayed once this litter is weaned. It does look like your female is a purebred (Scottish Fold?), so if you are a reputable breeder some extra info might help us understand a bit better.

Also, if you do have a breeder mentor, or even if you bred with an outside male, you could contact them to see if there's a color running through their lines you weren't aware of. That could give you a better answer on the color pattern of the little cutie. As for the stripes, I find that on solid colored kittens the 'under stripes' show up more clearly once the guard hairs are coming in around 6-8 weeks. Your little guy might just be too little for them to really pop yet.

We're not hostile, but many of the members here participate in rescue so indiscriminate breeding is often a hot topic. We do have a few experienced and newer breeders as part of the community here, so don't feel run off! Responsible breeders are definitely welcome.


----------



## marie73

Oh. I wasn't aware that mixing a ragdoll with a Scottish fold was a breed.


----------



## librarychick

I did seem to miss that part on my first reading - however if I remember correctly there's some allowance in breeding scottish folds. I'm not sure how far it extends, but I do know that breeding two cats with folded ears can result in more birth defects due to soft cartilage, and reading something about outcrossing being allowed. 

To be fair, I read the article a few years ago, but I decided to go with benefit of the doubt until we've got a solid answer.


----------



## demichan

Part of this pregnancy with Skye was to test to see if I do want to make cat breeding a full time hobby in the future. Based on Skye's heat cycle we made the decision to breed her when we did. We are in regular contact with our stud's mum and with an excellent vet. When Skye gave birth she was very calm and just got on with it, but I personally found it very scary because I love her so much. Based on that I don't know if actual full time breeding is for me. 

We plan on keeping at least one of the kittens and are beating off applicants for the other kittens with a stick. We were always prepared to keep every kitten if necessary. Maybe a Scottish Fold crossed with a Ragdoll isn't a 'breed' for showing in rings but they are going to be amazing family pets. I'm not going to argue this any further. I did my research but I know there will be people who hate my guts for not adhering to their every little standard. I just wanted to know what was going on with my kittens fur.


----------



## marie73

Nobody's hating you, it's just sad to me to be breeding random breeds while not trying to improve upon a specific breed. And it annoys me personally when people "sell" non-breeds or try to pass off the breeding of two "pedigree" cats as any type of "breed" and asks for substantial money (any more than a cat adoption agency). Not saying that's the case with you.


----------



## librarychick

Yup, ditto.

I did look it up, and according to CFA and TICA accepted out crosses are American Shorthair, British Shorthair, and British Longhair.

If you're doing it correctly breeding any animal is not a profitable business, and certainly not something you can do 'full time' as though it was a career. It's an interest driven hobby that people go in to in order to preserve and improve a specific breed that they love. Breeding as a 'test' isn't a good plan as there are many things which could have gone wrong.

If you like having kittens around, as I do, consider fostering pregnant mothers or mothers with kittens for a local rescue. That way you'll get to have sweet babies, and someone else foots the bill, while you get to rescue kittens and cats who would otherwise have no home or place to be safe.


----------



## Arianwen

librarychick said:


> however if I remember correctly there's some allowance in breeding scottish folds.


I remember reading the same. And I think that is a healthier approach than often happens with dogs.


----------



## demichan

The thing is, I find the whole concept of 'breeds' a bit of a negative thing. It just seems strange to 'improve' breeds for anything other than health and temperament reasons, yet both of these things would be greatly improved with a whole lot of outbreeding to outstanding cats of any type instead of more inbreeding. 

Any kittens who do not go to my direct friends and family will be advertised as what they are; a Scottish Fold x Ragdoll cross. I'm not starting a business here, we just wanted to see if breeding might be something for us (and to get a mini-Skye).


----------



## librarychick

True, there are some neat projects fighting to be recognized though. LUA Dalmatians and Olde English Bulldogges are another - working to fix the prevalent health issues within those breeds and create healthier dogs. Very cool. I'd love to see more similar efforts. In kitties too!


----------

