# Sticky  Dangerous Flea Treatments and Shampoos/ Permethrin



## Jeanie

Thanks to Bosco'sMum for this valuable information:

"Twitching, [excess licking], and weak hindquarters sounds like 
dog flea treatment on the cat. permethrin can harm cats to death."

.


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## melysion

Felix (my Mums cat) wears a flea collar with that permethrin stuff all the time 8O 8O


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## jessies mum

Oh no - I just bought some flea spray for my house that has it in??


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## amitos

It makes me wonder why one whould use permethrin for his cat. Advantage (regular or Multi) and Revolution (selamectin) spot-on formulations are great against fleas. Adv. Multi and Revolution can be used for ear mites, scabies, etc... why would one use a collar? this is too toxic and serves little purpose. 



Jeanie said:


> Thanks to Bosco'sMum for this valuable information:
> 
> "Twitching, [excess licking], and weak hindquarters sounds like
> dog flea treatment on the cat. permethrin can harm cats to death."
> 
> 
> .


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## Kobster

^ I agree. The stuff from the vet is more expensive, but it is SAFE and EFFECTIVE. Things you can't put a price on when it comes to my babies.


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## bluemilk

:yikes Jeanie,Boscosmum, Thanks!!!! I just bought some spray today! I'll have to check to see if it contains Permethrin! God bless you,thanks for watching out for us!


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## jazzcat

New here, just wanted to say thanks for posting this! Lots of valuable info around here!


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## nanook

I _just_ saw this! I haven't been around much lately.  
I'm so glad you posted this, Jeanie! I can't tell you how any times, when I used to work at the vet, cats would come in seriously ill from these darn OTC flea (and deworming) products. Sadly, some even died! I think it's criminal that they still have them on the market.

Wanted to add also that anything with pyrethrins should not be used on cats as well. Even though it is "natural" (permethrin is the synthetic version) it can still be highly toxic to cats.


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## tsenseless

I tried various shampoos/treatments (including permethrin).. Anything containing permethrin should have a warning on it "FOR DOGS ONLY". As it was the only thing I could get at the time, I disregarded this and diluted the mixture (heavily) with water. My cats suffered no ill effects. 

I ended up having to have a family member ship me some stuff from the US to get rid of the problem completely.

I used "sergeant's silver squeeze on for cats" (active ingredtian etofenprox 55.0%)

After 2-3 months and many many many complete house sanitations (basically turning my house into a clean room) later. No more fleas! I had some extra medication so I used them on the 'wild' cats that I feed outside, now pretty much the whole neighborhood is flea free! I dont know what that active ingrediant is, but the fleas REALLY hate it.

Be warned though, if your cat has a heavy flea infestation they'll jump off your cat and eat the **** out of you before dying. I found that if I used isopropyl alcohol on my body (from shoulder down to fingers and from thigh to my foot), the fleas wouldnt bite me. I had to wash my arms/legs with alcohol every day or they'd come back and bite me some more.


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## IrisdadSovine

So, tonight I start to believe my cat Iris has fleas. I never actually saw fleas on her, but she has been scratching more for a while, and she did stay with my mom's cat for a while, who definitely has had fleas recently. Also, I went back to the apartment that I just moved out of and found that it has become infested. I decided that since she likely has fleas, I should get some medicine. So, I go to the grocery store. Its late in the evening, because I get off work late. I don't know anything about flea medicine, and I would never suspect that something would be sold over the at the grocery store that is dangerous to the health of animals. Not something intended to be used on a pet animal, I mean. So, I pick up Hartz Ultraguard spot-on flea and tick "medicine." 

Then, I notice that there is a lot in the little tube that you are supposed to empty on the cats neck. And there are a lot of warnings on the box about safety to humans and animals. So, after applying, I decide to do some research. I find all these horror stories about Hartz Ultraguard and bad reactions cats have to it. In any case, I don't something that could be dangerous on my baby. So, I give her a bath and wash it all off with generic, Dawn-imitation dish soap. 

For the thirty minutes or so that Iris had the Ultraguard on her, I noticed that she hopped around and acted like she didn't like having it one her. I tried to keep her from licking it, but of course, she tried to lick it constantly. So, she inevitably managed to lick some off her back, and off her feet, from scratching. I read more horror stories, some about veterinary employees who frequently treated animals poisoned by these over-the-counter medicines. 

After washing her, she seems to be feeling okay, though not as energetic as she was before applying the medicine. This could be her natural rest cycle. I don't really know, but the whole thing made me really worried. I feel terrible for putting something on my cat without knowing that it could cause her serious harm. And I am appalled that the Hartz company is permitted to go on selling these products, without the general public even being made aware of the potential danger. I would gladly appreciate if anyone knew more about this product or the dangers of it. How worried should I be? I love my cat and if I did anything to endanger her life or her long-term health that I could avoid, I would feel awful. I hope that it is made more common knowledge that Hartz Ultraguard may be harmful or dangerous to the health of cats and other pets.

Iris's Dad


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## Dave_ph

"Sargents kills cats"

That was the first thing my Vet said when I told her I used Sargents Flea drops on the cat I took in one night (Fay).

At the time I thought Fay was a stray and she was being driven crazy by fleas, it turns out she has an alergy to their bites. I took her flea bitten self in on a Sunday night and felt so sorry for her biting and scratching that I went they carry, Sargents Flea and Tic for cats. At the time I didn't know any better but 2 hours later I could tell it was hurting her.

When I told my Vet about her reaction she said "Sargents kills cats" and "Can you believe they sell that".

Hartz makes Sargents. After that I even found news videos about it.

I've never seen it in Petsmart.


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## Jeanie

That's discraceful, Dave!


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## Dave_ph

http://www.hartzsyndrome.org/

This video is graphic but necessary. All of the animal abusers employees of Hartz, Sergeant's and any other company marketing and distributing this POISON, take notice. You are helping the abuse of innocent animals. 

How can anyone work for these companies and sleep at night daring to say they care for animals


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## Dave_ph

Here's the television news story I just spent the afternoon looking for. The product I used on Fay is the one in the newscasters left hand.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local ... geles.html

I do not like the companies that would do this.


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## Sean84

Doe's anyone know a way to get rid of fleas in the house that is safe for cats?

Sean


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## Dave_ph

My Vet sold me Fleabusters.

It's for your house, NOT to be applied to your cat.

I hope I'm not violating a rule showing it.

http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/product_d ... swodQ1hGfQ


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## Jeanie

The reviews are all good. As long as people read the instructions, I think that's an informative post.  

As you said, "Not for applying to your pet! Use it for your house. " Expensive, but probably well worth it, if you have an infestation.


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## bob13bob

I buy flea treatment in bulk for dogs from australia, and split up the dosages (frontline plus). It is much cheaper. I make sure the two active ingredients are the same, in fact the drug designated for cats is a little stronger.


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## evil robot boy

Hi there, you guys, quick question:

i know i may be being over zealous with the health of my (not really "mine") cats health but i love her and i just don't want to put her in harms way.
Anyways, like 3 days ago, Friday night, my family treated themselves for scabies (a bloody nightmare, i'll tell you), 5% permethrin cream, all over (not fun!). The 3 of us did it before bed and washed it off early Saturday morning and all is well, still itching but never mind.
Right, to cut a long story short, a cat that used to live next door and visit me all the time (ALL the time), has arrived on my window ledge (i think she has walked like 2 miles!?), i'm so glad to see her, it is too late to call her owners right now, but is it ok to let her in to sleep in my bed? I hear that permethrin cream is pretty toxic, will there be traces all over the place like on carpets (i had to put it on my bare feet a walked around all night) and other stuff? I have heard that its safe when its dry, it has been 2 days but i dunno... shed some light on the subject, can you?

P.s i hope this is the right place to post this if its not i apologise.

Thanks, 

Robbie.


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## Jeanie

I would guess there wouldn't be a problem after two days. Of course, I'm not a vet.


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## Josh 91

Oh gee i just washed them the other day with a flea shampoo and just found out that it had permethrin in it !


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## ibbica

Josh, several antiparasitic meds that are "safe for cats" actually do contain permethrin. It's just in a much MUCH lower dose than what you find in, say, anti-flea meds for dogs (e.g. 0.1% compared to 40%+). Which of course begs the question, does it need to be in such a high concentration for dogs? But I digress  The point is that just because something has permethrin in it doesn't necessarily mean it is dangerous for your cat (or rather, no more dangerous than other similar medications), as long as you follow your vet's directions carefully. HOWEVER, that being said, I personally would like to avoid the risk as completely as possible, and have been trying to find a safer way to prevent parasites from tormenting my kitties. Which brings me to my own question...

While on the hunt for alternatives, I stumbled across a product called "Exner Petguard". I am, however, very wary of trying this, since all the information I could find online boils down to a single description and one highly suspect "review" repeated on mutiple sites. It appears to be available only in Europe, and its listed ingredients are only:

"water, fat, whey protein, sucrose-monohydrate, ash"

Has anyone here actually tried this stuff? Does it actually work? Does anyone know of any empirical studies on *how* it works? I know how the *manufacturer* claims it works, but there seems to be absolutely no objective analysis out there as to its efficacy (over, say, a soapy bath or a spritzing kitty with a similarly edible homemade solution), or as to just how safe it is... I don't want to repeat their whole shpeal here, but I'm taking the claims that "the inventor and patent-holder drank a bottle of it at a press conference to show how safe it is" with a grain of salt, since I can as of yet find no record of any such press conference nor the name of this mysterious individual :/

The "ash" bit is particularly worrisome to me, as it seems to me that "ash" is just anything that's not burned off during post-production analysis but is in too small a quantity to measure the individual components. For example, is there a possibiilty that one of those ingredients originated from chrysanthemums, and that the "ash" actually contains pyrethrins? (albeit in tiny quantities... but then, 0.1% is pretty minute too!) Or am I being too cynical?

Any thoughts?


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## jmsx521

I have this flea control spray at my place, and I haven't used it on a cat for many years. Is it safe, or should I throw it away?
Hartz Advanced Care
Ingredients:
Tetrachlorvinphos 1.08%
(S)-Methoprene 0.07%
Other Ingredients 98.85%

That last line is kind of suspicious. "98.85%" of something "other" that we don't know of. I hate corporations!


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## ibbica

jmsx521 said:


> I have this flea control spray at my place, and I haven't used it on a cat for many years. Is it safe, or should I throw it away?
> Hartz Advanced Care
> Ingredients:
> Tetrachlorvinphos 1.08%
> (S)-Methoprene 0.07%
> Other Ingredients 98.85%
> 
> That last line is kind of suspicious. "98.85%" of something "other" that we don't know of. I hate corporations!


It's highly likely that the "other" is a relatively inert solvent; usually it's either water or an alcohol (or a mixture of the two).

The bigger concern would be with the active ingredients themselves; tetrachlorvinphos is an organophosphate that some groups are arguing should be banned because of its potential toxicity (at sufficient doses) to any animal with neurons (it interferes with acetylcholinesterase activity). I can't immediately find anything specifying what a "sufficient" dose for a cat would be, and honestly I wouldn't trust Hartz to have thoroughly investigated it.

Methoprene, on the other hand, is "safe" for mammals at least, because it specifically mimics the juvenile growth hormone found in insects, preventing them from maturing and reproducing. (It can affect the maturation of other invertebrates, fish, and amphibians, though.)

Personally, I would dispose of that stuff. There are much safer options out there now - safer for your cats and you. The only caveat is that you MUST dispose of this properly, as the hazardous waste it is. Do NOT just dump it down the drain or send it directly to a landfill, as both active ingredients are highly toxic to a number of invertebrate, fish, and amphibian species; even a small "escaped" bottle could do a substantial amount of environmental damage


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## Josh 91

is it okay to use shampoo with pytherins in it ?


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## ibbica

Josh 91 said:


> is it okay to use shampoo with pytherins in it ?


It depends on the concentration, and on the cat. Personally I would NOT use it - there are plenty of much safer options out there that are just as (or more) effective, no reason to take the risk.


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## Triscuit&Snickers

I just found out today my cat Snickers may have fleas. I've never dealt with fleas before. The vet filled me with a lot of information. She was very clear about not buying flea removal from grocery stores.

Frontline was her suggested brand. It's very expensive. 

Have any of you used Frontline before? Is it the best?


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## dianafaye

Dave_ph said:


> "Sargents kills cats"
> 
> That was the first thing my Vet said when I told her I used Sargents Flea drops on the cat I took in one night (Fay).
> 
> At the time I thought Fay was a stray and she was being driven crazy by fleas, it turns out she has an alergy to their bites. I took her flea bitten self in on a Sunday night and felt so sorry for her biting and scratching that I went they carry, Sargents Flea and Tic for cats. At the time I didn't know any better but 2 hours later I could tell it was hurting her.
> 
> When I told my Vet about her reaction she said "Sargents kills cats" and "Can you believe they sell that".
> 
> Hartz makes Sargents. After that I even found news videos about it.
> 
> I've never seen it in Petsmart.




Sergeants almost killed my family cat. My mother used to buy flea meds and shampoos at the grocery store all the time, for the cat and my dog. Apparently, you can use a product for years and they can change something in the ingredient and your pet can have a bad reaction. Shortly after it was applied, my cat, Kitty, started acting funny so I gave him a bath. He tried to escape, as usual, and jumped out of the bath, but fell, actually fell. He became so weak he couldn't even lift his tail, and I had to beg and scream at my parents to call a vet. They had resigned to the fact that he was dying and no vets would be open because it was a Sunday. I finally found one that was open and we rushed him there, meanwhile in the car he began to seizure in my arms. He was only 5 years old. The vet shaved off his hair and rubbed charcoal on his skin, and pumped him w/ fluid and charcoal through an IV. At home I had to help him drink Pedialite w/ an eye dropper and stand him up in his litter box or he would fall and seizure again. The vet had told us he would be lucky to survive, and the chances of permanent neurological damage were pretty high. We were very, very lucky. Kitty survived, and is quite old now. The only thing we ever noticed was occasionally his back would spasm, but otherwise he was normal. We complained to Hartz, who makes Sergeants, and they just blew us off saying it must've been a predisposed allergic reaction and basically, we had no way to prove it was their product that caused it. I will never EVER use any sort of medication or chemical without the consent of my personal vet. It was the worst feeling in the world to be a child and hold a beloved family member in my arms and not be able to do a thing, and to have it been our fault as well.


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## Vorguen

horror stories... I have a sergeants flea shampoo somewhere in my cabinets for cats, I think I need to throw this away this is essentially poison to my cat O_O


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## Wozzeck

When my cat got fleas, we first tried the a flea removal drop for the back of the neck. I don't remember the brand but I do know it was the cat formula because I spent an hour looking at all of them. After reading this, I feel so lucky that my Momo didn't have the reaction that I just saw on youtube and read about. However, his skin became VERY irritated and I ended up washing the stuff left over after a day.

After this, I discussed the problem with my vet and he FLAT OUT told me not to use flea collars, flea shampoos, and other flea-killing products. His reasoning was that 1) they are toxic and 2) they don't work well and are a waste of money. He told us to use Dawn soap (the blue, original kind).

We ended up having to give two separate Dawn baths about two weeks apart. We were moving from Iowa to Chicago at the time as well, so when we had the U-Haul loaded up, we used a couple of those flea bombs to kill the fleas on our stuff.

My cat and our apartment have been flea-free for over one year now. I would recommend using Dawn initially, taking care not to get it on their face. 

I hope this helps!


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## jmsx521

Any comments on adding rubbing alcohol, hydrogen peroxide or vinegar in the cat's bath to kill fleas? Or, maybe diluting them with water, and spraying & rubbing onto the skin and coat?


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## dunkindonutcats

ok so I just read this thread about how Hartz for cats can really hurt your cats, so I am really concerned now, but I dont think my babies had a reaction because they have not had any drops in over a month and now they only wear the flea collar so does that mean they wont have a reaction and to stop using it or that maybe the reaction is not one easily seen? do I need to take my babies to the vet:|


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## marie73

I don't think they need to go to the vet, but if that's a Hartz or Hartz-brand flea collar on them, I would take it off. Now.


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## dunkindonutcats

thank you thank you for all the info


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## mistapurr

*Hartz flea shampoo made our cat have seizures*

This was the cat I grew up with, so some years back. I'm not sure what the particular ingredients were, but it sent our kitten into seizures. Our vet told us Hartz products are horrible and she sees several cases/year of cats going into anaphylatic shock or having seizures from it. Avoid at all costs!


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## mistapurr

My grandma used to rub an orange peel on her indoor/outdoor cat and it never got fleas.. makes sense because of what you find in Citronella products for people. Plus, orange peels are all natural and safe. 

*Please note I am only recommending you try actual orange peels and NOT Citronella products that are meant for occasional human use!


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## Beckie210789

Dave_ph said:


> Hartz Syndrome - Hartz Flea & Tick products can HARM OR KILL your loved one.
> 
> This video is graphic but necessary. All of the animal abusers employees of Hartz, Sergeant's and any other company marketing and distributing this POISON, take notice. You are helping the abuse of innocent animals.
> 
> How can anyone work for these companies and sleep at night daring to say they care for animals



I just watched the newscast video from that site, and realized I had a bottle of bio-spot shampoo from when I received Kodak all full of fleas. Needless to say I just tossed it in the trash. Thankfully, my cats are all indoor, and not on a ground floor, so I have never had an infestation here. HOWEVER god forbid I hadn't seen that video and used it again for whatever reason. It's gone now. You know, I don't even treat my cats for flea and tick prevention, since they never go outside. As far as any future infestations (knock on wood) It's Dawn dish detergent from now on.


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## health.nutz

Just read the information on this thread - very informative. I didn't know any of the stuff re: Hartz products. We have recently adopted a stray who has roundworms, ear mites and fleas. It's been a rough week, but I think we are finally starting to get over it. The vet said we'd have to wait three more weeks to completely be sure as the life cycle takes almost 1 month. We did get a Siphotrol Fogger that has permethrin in it, and I am concerned. Is this something that is safe for our house, as long as we follow the directions?


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## Mazz

My partner (Nathan) works in a laboratory as an analytical chemist, at a natural pyrethrin extracting factory. According to him they the largest supplier of natural pyrethrins in the world. He says that natural pyrethrins are completely safe for animals and humans, and I used natural pyrethrin shampoo on my kitty when I first got her (she was flea ridden and had very thin falling-out fur and skin irritation from biting/scratching). My experience is it's very effective for killing fleas, the wash basin was full of dead and dying fleas. I noticed no ill side effects afterwards, and I lathered her twice with it including her face and ears to ensure I didn't miss any fleas (Nathan assured me it is safe to eyes at low concentration levels of pyrethrin contained in the shampoo).

Synthetic pyrethrins, including permethrin, ARE highly toxic to cats. Cats have a particular sensitivity to them, and they should never be used.

Eight days after flea shampooing kitty, her fur is thick and luxuriant, and she hasn't scratched or bitten herself at all that I've seen. I find that natural pyrethrin flea shampoo is effective, safe, and I would recommend it to others.


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