# Possible new breeder looking for solid resources!



## puckerbrush (Dec 31, 2008)

Hello,

My husband and I currently breed alpacas. We own 3 very spoiled house kitties, 2 Anatolian Shepherds that live with the alpacas, and one demanding guinea pig as well. I have teased him with the idea of breeding cats for years. Now all of a sudden he is caving in. My love for Maine Coons led me to Siberian Cats and now I'm doing a lot of research. 

My problem is that I would like some nice "solid" resources. There are a lot of personal catterys out there that are far from objective. I am well aware of this mentality from dealing with alpaca breeders. I feel like I haven't cracked the crust into the unbiased information source yet and would like a leg up.

Thank you in advance for the information and I've enjoyed lurkin' on this forum and reading up on all of your furry children!

Kindly,
Jennifer Caldwell-Jeans
Puckerbrush Alpacas, LLC
http://www.alpacanation.com/puckerbrush.asp


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

Welcome and good luck! I don't breed, I do rescues, but I hope you are able to find the resources you are looking for. Cats breeds need good, ethical breeders.
Heidi

PS...I enjoyed reading your website. Beautiful alpacas!


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## puckerbrush (Dec 31, 2008)

I have always been a staunch rescue-over-breed kind of gal. I spent my college years volunteering at the Humane Society on Campus and also the local Wildlife Rescue. I have always rescued in previous years. With the exception of Baxter Rufus my Maine ****, all of my furry children were/are rescues. Our first purebreeds were our livestock guardian dogs (Anatolian Shepherds.) Because we needed trained dogs I didn't want to chance a rescue. I have fostered in the past (eons ago) and still see the immense rewards and benefit to the foster/rescue system.

But . . .

There is something alluring about getting involved in another aspect of breeding. I have spent the last 5 - 6 years researching alpaca genetics and bloodlines. But I've always been a cat person at heart. I am also one of those stubborn "read 20 opinions and still look for more" kind of people. I just didn't want to start off on the wrong foot.

Whether we ever financially get to the point where breeding cats is an option or not. I value the opinion "of the masses" so to speak. I appreciate any and all feedback.

I'm glad you enjoyed my site! I take Baxter down to the barn with me on a leash in warmer weather. He and the dogs are best friends (the dogs lived in the kitchen when they were pups and my female Wilhemina PigSqueak and Baxter are almost the same age.) The alpacas are terrified of him but a few will sniff him. He is so good and will just flatten out on the ground while this huge (well to him) animals snorts on him. 

Kindly,
Jennifer Caldwell-Jeans
Puckerbrush Alpacas, LLC.
www.alpacanation.com/puckerbrush.asp


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## Heather102180 (Nov 19, 2003)

I love alpacas! :luv I’ll visit your website when I’m off work!  Welcome to the forum! =-)

I don’t know much about cat breeding but am curious about something. I’m not trying to start an argument…just really curious. You’ve volunteered at the Humane Society so you’ve seen first hand how bad the homeless cat population is…how can you justify bringing more kittens into the world when there are already many homeless ones? Since you are a breeder, I hope you can enlighten me! I’m know nothing about breeding cats or the importance of it. Again, just curious, not trying to start anything!


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

I'm not a breeder, but did a lot of research when I got my Maine ****. I'm not quite sure what you're looking for here....are there particular topics you want info on? What sort of bias' are you looking to avoid?


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## puckerbrush (Dec 31, 2008)

First of all, I breed alpacas, not cats. Secondly in my second post I did mention how I had a hard time with the concept of breeding purebreeds when so many homeless animals need homes . . . but admitted to being curious about breeding.

I'm guessing maybe I did come to the wrong spot . . . that maybe I should just be sharing with you cute stories about my precious furry children that I DO have. I just found this site, thought some people were knowledgeable and threw out this post in hopes that I could find out more about the industry. I have no problem continuing to be a lurker on this site (as I do love reading your posts) and taking my inquiries elsewhere.

I'm not a troll, I don't flame people and I would hope that when someone requests info that it is taken as just that - requesting additional info on breeding. In the alpaca industry things are more black and white. There are not millions of homeless alpacas looking for homes. There are some (read: maybe less than 50 if that,) but not enough to discourage breeding in any way. I have been owned by cats since I was a tiny tot and now into my third decade I plan to own them forever. 

I simply wanted more information - certainly not to start a ping pong effect of people's personal opinions. That said, my Maine **** is currently tearing apart a paper bag - what is it with them and paper/cardboard - and my guinea pig is yelling at me so I'll sign off and tend to her whims. I hope you all have a fantastic New Year.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

I think people have a difficult time getting their mind around the idea of breeding purebred cats when there are so many who are homeless. Do not let that deter you. I think we only have a few purebred breeders here, and this forum (Breeding Forum) is well moderated to keep the arguments to a minimum.
Myself, I grew up with my family breeding, raising and showing AKC rough coated Collies. I understand the importance of keeping a particular breed alive and constantly striving for improvement in type and conformation. As an adult, I have been involved in horse breeding, studying bloodlines for good nicks and characteristics to cross to improve upon the breed with the ultimate goal being the breed standard. I understand the importance of good breeding and selection for all purebred animals. 
Overall, this site is mostly populated by people who just love/have cats, not necessarily purebred stock. Don't let that deter you, though. I see the importance of having an ethical person studying and selecting cats for breeding and I would hate to lose your knowledgeable input here. I was excited to see your interest in cat breeding, especially after seeing your breeding program for alpacas. I would hate to lose your input because I think purebred cats do need an advocate like you.
Heidi


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## Jimmyness (Dec 31, 2005)

Well i think it is important to preserve purebred cat breeds and continue to improve and expand their bloodlines.

Responsible breeders are not the ones causing the problems, its idiots that dont desex their cats that cause the problems. Or people without a clue that just breed their cats for the fun of it. People creating UNWANTED litters, thats your answer to pet overpopulation. Not people trying to do the right thing.


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## Heather102180 (Nov 19, 2003)

Puckerbrush, I'm sorry if you felt the need to be defensive with my post. I didn't mean it that way at all. I was just curious. I don't really know what else more to say because I already stated I wasn't looking to pick a fight. I really am truly ignorant on the whole breeding thing. That's why I asked, that's all.

I hope you'll stick around. This is a nice forum to be a part of.


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

Puckerbrush...no one is trying to run you off. But unless you find a site specifically for breeders, you're going to get some questions. And as a breeder, you will always have people questioning why you're bringing more cats into the world when there are so many homeless pets. So I guess that's a major thing you should be aware of should you decide to get into breeding cats. You may want to ask any breeders you contact how they handle it.

We have a mix of people here; some who believe no one should be breeding cats, some who believe only responsible breeders should and some who will buy a kitten from a pet store. Any public cat forum is going to have that mix and they're all going to voice their opinion.

That said, I still really don't know what you're looking for. Your post seems to say "tell me about breeding cats", which is a very broad topic. I can tell you that there is a Maine **** breeders discussion group on Yahoo, I know Holly's breeder participates in it. I can take a look later (probably tomorrow) and see if I can find it for you.


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## puckerbrush (Dec 31, 2008)

I never intended to sound defensive - I'm truly regretful that it turned out that way. I was just trying to be very clear. As far as what I want? I guess I thought that I could find some good sites by asking. I haven't found any good sites for breeders yet which is why I asked; however, I have no problem Googling on my own  

I'm still on the fence about breeding, and being quite the veteran on other forums (albeit about alpacas and livestock) I am truly aware that people have different ideas about a subject. 

I apologize if my post was generalized. I think I have a lot more research to do on my own and next time I'll frame my questions more specifically. In the meantime, I'm certainly not "run off" and I'll continue to read on this forum and look at all of the pictures of your loverly furry children. 

I guess I just didn't know where to start. Resources in my area locally are a bit scarce. I appreciate the different view points from everyone - that is the only way we learn and grow. 

Thanks for those that posted. I'm going to hit the net again and come back later if I have any other (less general) questions!

Happy New Year,

Jennifer Caldwell-Jeans
Puckerbrush Alpacas, LLC.
www.alpacanation.com/puckerbrush.asp


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

Reminder: This announcement is at the very top of this forum:



> Post subject: Important information about the Breeding ForumPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 4:44 pm
> 
> CF Mod
> 
> ...


If you are considering breeding cats, I would suggest that you attend cat shows and talk with the breeders. It is important to have a mentor to help you, someone who knows the breed and the hobby well. In the meantime, I would read resource after resource about the breed you decide on. I'm sure that Sol will add some good advice for you. I have rescued many, many cats, but bred Siamese for about 5 years. I feel no guilt about this, as I never turned down a stray. I either found a home for it or kept it. 

You came to the right place and the right forum. I do hope that you will watch this thread for her reply and others.


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## puckerbrush (Dec 31, 2008)

Well, I spent the latter part of yesterday trying to find cat shows in my area. When I lived in Florida and later in Baltimore it was so easy! Now I live in rural Maine. I did find quite a few in Massachusetts and some in New Hampshire and Vermont. But I would need to make arrangements for over-nighters. I will get to some shows and I've also sent emails to quite a few breeders in the last few weeks. Funny how the alpaca community is so open and helpful and I haven't gotten one reply from the breeders 8O That is okay, this is just an idea. I also was obsessed with pygmy hippos years ago too  And I know that the responses I have received this week are not indicative of cat breeders/lovers as a whole. Just loving kitties is enough for me right now. But I'll continue my research and am thankful for the responses that grounded me and also the ones that made me evaluate why I would like to breed cats. As a side note, since I have moved here I have donated to several local cat shelters and have worked with some animal rescue groups. I say this in hopes that people don't think I initiated this inquiry based strictly on a mission for profit.

As I mentioned in a message to someone - I should have applied my knowledge about breeding alpacas to cats - I visited numerous shows, over a dozen farms and I have a mentoring farm nearby for those "help!" calls - or more often "guess what so and so did?!" calls. 

One of these days, I'll figure out how to put pictures in posts  and I'll post my kitties pictures in the appropriate thread. They are my precious babies!


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

I think you'll find more shows around the New England area in the better weather months. CFA and TICA would be good sites to start with:

http://www.cfainc.org/

http://www.tica.org/

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/catb ... oup&slk=19


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## petspy (Sep 11, 2008)

puckerbrush - cat breeding is more conducive and common in warmer climates
which may be why you are having difficulty finding resources in your area.
you might also want to narrow down what breed you are most interested
in perpetuating, as breeding resources tend to be cliquey by breed, and not
generalized to all cat breeders. If my 4 year odyssey to adopt a pedigree is
any litmus test - I can confirm most cat breeders are really full of themselves.
you might be better off breeding dogs for both your climate and community,
then adopt a few stray cats if you need mousers for that new barn or yours.

please don't take any hostility as a sign against you or breeders. this forum
tends to attract people interested in health and welfare of ALL cats. since
millions of cats in the USA are destroyed every year from lack of adoption,
and millions more cats are born feral from lack of spay & neuter facilities,
some catforum member's knee jerk reaction is to be hard on pedigree owners
who inadvertently support breeding programs, and the breeders who run them.
This may be why most cat pedigree specific forums are found more privately.
again, once you focus on a breed, they will be a lot easier to find. good luck :wink: 

_next week I'm going to a social gathering of 30 cat keepers in my area.
to avoid potential condescension, I'm simply going to say I adopted a pair of
shorthair gray cats, not mention they were former show quality pedigrees._


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## puckerbrush (Dec 31, 2008)

Well, I agree where I live has an impact on the number of breeder resources. But this state is peppered with Maine **** cat breeders - a breed I adore but don't know if I would like to breed them. I do know one alpaca breeder in New Hampshire that breeds Ragdolls. I can't believe I forgot about her - she would be a great resource. Doodle, thank you for the links.

As far as breeding dogs? No thanks :mrgreen: I own two working dogs and that is enough for me. In the alpaca industry there are many breeders that are full of themselves. They feel that ribbons are everything and ask (and sometimes get) outrageous prices for their animals. I think there is a greater dichotomy between large farms and small farms than you see with cat breeders BUT the amount of capital that the breeder has still plays a huge part. The farms that had money before last years economy crash STILL have money - those of us that are smaller breeders are struggling. I'm sure the same could be said for some catteries. 

I have tried to rescue several feral cats in my area. One I was able to keep on the property through 1 litter of kittens. I was never able to trap her and the minute I put a cat carrier (surrounded by hay like a cave) to help keep her warm she disappeared. I recently saw a black cat hanging out in an area that I knew an injured fox resided but was unable to catch this cat as well (or the fox for that matter.) I guess I'm unlucky with trapping. My area is very rural: bears, deer, moose, fox, porcupine, fishers, skunks, you name it. I would love to save all the feral kitties I see but they are too wily for me. 

I will never abandon my viewpoint of supporting local rescues. But the cold stark truth is that I can't afford to rescue more animals. I already have a farm. I donate clothing to the cat rescue thrift stores and food to the local vets office. I volunteer at the rescue events. That is all I can financially do at this time. In my journey studying alpaca genetics and bloodlines I began to look more closely at my own furry children. Would I love to have kittens in the house all day? Sure, who wouldn't! But it became more complex, the concept of preserving a certain breed and maintaining a breed standard (which is not present in the alpaca world - breed standards are taboo.) There is something pure about an Egyptian Mau and breathtaking about a 25lb Maine **** Cat. I'm not trying to skew into an esoteric view point but I'm just sharing part of my journey. I lost a beautiful cat, my first furry son, to hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. The most common congenital heart defect in cats, with careful breeding you can avoid the heart ache losing a furry child to this malformation. 

I am on a quest for information and opinions. Opinions I'll find in plenty and I'm gathering a bit of information as well. I am not going to become a breeder tomorrow. I'm testing the waters. But another reality of breeding is the by product of possible financial gain. Could this be beneficial to my life right now? Yes, indeed. But that wouldn't be why I would venture into breeding cats, although undoubtedly a pleasant end product.


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## petspy (Sep 11, 2008)

Honestly - I've never heard of a "profitable" cat breeding program.
most do it to participate in the show circuit, and refine the breed,
and there are a select few that attempt to create desired hybrids,
but none of them seem to net any real money out of it, sorry.

usually, the only profitable animals are ones subject to trade restrictions
and a vanishing natural habitat, such as parrots, and even exotic frogs.
I know there is Mink farming in Canada - maybe that would be good  

if you are looking for a profitable way to leverage your farm land,
perhaps you can invest in hot houses and grow organic produce.
that's what a cousin of mine did, and she now exports containers
full of organically grown celery to Europe each year. I'm sure your
local farmer's market is a wealth of information on such a venture.


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

I think most reputable cat breeders, who also show, will tell you that there is no profit in cat breeding. And you really can't be considered a reputable breeder without showing because then how do you know whether the cats you're producing are exemplary representatives of their breed unless you show them? Holly's breeder (who is actually not all that far from you in Hollis, ME) indicated to me that selling kittens supported her 'hobby' but did not cover all her costs by any stretch of the imagination. 

One thing to consider as far as costs would be the genetic health issues that a breed carries. For example, you mentioned HCM...since Maine Coons have a tendency towards it, part of a good breeding program is genetic testing for the HCM gene that has been identified and since they believe there are multiple genes associated with it but haven't been identified, yearly echocardiograms on all breeding cats. That's an expense that could be avoided by picking a different breed.


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## Jeanie (Jun 18, 2003)

I know Sol, the breeding forum mod, just had a baby, and I forgot that briefly. I just wasn't thinking!  

Regarding cat breeders ...I have found that some are very hesitant to sell breeding quality cats, because they don't want the competition. You really have to "pay your dues" by showing up at the shows and joining the nearest club. You have to show people that you are sincerely interested in learning and improving the value of the breed. You'll meet someone who is not concerned mainly about keeping the prices as high as possible. If they realize that you value the animal and its health, that you care about the quality of the cat, you'll find a kindred soul. The qualilty of the cats and dogs is in their genes, the genotype, rather than the appearance, or phenotype. A good pedigree will usually produce more healthy and beautiful offspring than a beautiful animal with a "so- so" pedigree. 

And yes, there are people who *do* make money, and they are the people who charge $1500 for a kitten. This is one of my pet peeves. I don't consider these people ethical. I have raised collies, and that is expensive and hard work, but very rewarding. And I have bred and raised cats, and there is a huge difference. They are much easier. The very high prices are exhorbitant. It makes one wonder what's more important, the quality of the breed, the joy of caring for the animals, or the money. You will probably make some profit, but not if you take your time into consideration.

It has been a while since I bred Collies dogs or Siamese cats, but these are some of the thing I discovered. I hope they're helpful to you.


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## puckerbrush (Dec 31, 2008)

I appreciate all the constructive feedback.

But I have to say . . . mink farming . . . really?! I'm sorry to say that that was offensive to me. I have been civil and open in my posts and I see the huge smiley face next to it indicating that you were joking but give me some credit. 

Please read my posts again . . . I mentioned quite a few times that I was not in it for the money but that sometimes that is a by-product. I never wanted to leverage my farm costs, I have a job and a business to do that. 

I now realize that this is much more of a hot button issue than I had anticipated. The mentality toward breeding in the alpaca world is night and day compared to this.

Again, I truly appreciate all of your feedback, and will continue to research this idea for another few years.


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## petspy (Sep 11, 2008)

good luck


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## puckerbrush (Dec 31, 2008)

Happy New Year to all


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## Sol (Feb 20, 2003)

Unbiased information (as unbiased as it can be) is available, but it's not easy to know what to look for being a rookie. I would highly recommend the book _Robinson's Genetics for Cat Breeders and Veterinarians_ written by some of the most experienced "feline" vets and geneticists. It's available at Amazon and other similar web shops. You can also find other useful books at such sites. Sometimes you can find breed specific books such as _Devon Rex Cat_ by Chelsea King. I know that Interpet Publishing that published _Devon Rex Cat_ also have published other breed specific books.

Visiting shows and talking to the enthusiasts is also very valuable. The information from us may not always be the most unbiased but in the end it is the people that know the breeds that can tell you most about them.


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