# Colourconfusion!



## FamHolter (Nov 24, 2010)

Well, finally I have a place to ask this question!

I am severely confused about the definition of my himalayan, Pumpkins, colours. She seems to be sort of half and half, so I just wanted to know what you would call her.. 

Her father is a flamepoint himalayan, and her mother was a red tabby persian(in Norway we don't have two seperate species for himmys and persians). In her papers, it says "Flame lynx point", but I am on the fence here. WHen she was a kitty she had pronoucned rings around her tail, which have now kinda blurred together into a block of orange. She never had stripes on her legs. But here's the kicker! She has the M shape on her forehead(though not "IN YOUR FACE" type clearity, but you can definitley see it) and the darker "rims" on her ears.. She has a slight "line" going down her back too, orange of course. 

What on earth am I supposed to make of that? I really don't want to call her lynx point, because she's not a "proper" one, but I still think it odd that one half of her have two clear lynx signs, and the other part has outgrown it.. She's spayed, so she wont be used for breeding or shows, so it doesn't matter per se, but I thought it would be fun to know what you make of it.. :smile:


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

It is sounding like she may be a Flame Lynx Point ... IF ... she is pointed. 
Is she? 
I will assume she is, since you call her a Himalayan.

Himalayans, and ALL of the pointed breeds, must carry the double recessive pointed gene in order for them to exhibit the colorpoint markings of the Siamese-marked breeds. If Pumpkin's mother carried a recessive pointed gene and passed it to Pumpkin, who definitely received a recessive pointed gene from her father, then it is entirely plausible that she is pointed and would be a Flame (red) Lynx (exhibits tabby markings) Point (colorpoint).

Additionally, ALL red cats will exhibit their tabby markings and would be classified as 'lynx' if they are pointed. Some red cats are able to hide/blend their tabby pattern so it looks like a solid coat, but the pattern is always there. 

In regards to the "M" on the forehead, it is my opinion that ALL cats have that. Even the solid colors and white. It is the 'agouti' gene working on black base-coats that make those tabby patterns stand out so visibly. T
the solid cats will sometimes exhibit 'ghost markings' in certain conditions and I feel that all will exhibit, to some degree or another, the variegated hairshaft length that is part of the definition of their tabby pattern.

Give this topic a quick read/look through. It has all of the info I would say to you and rather than repeat (re-type) give it a look through.
heidi =^..^=
http://www.catforum.com/forum/36-cat-chat/119430-what-agouti-tabby-looks-like.html


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## FamHolter (Nov 24, 2010)

Thank you so much, Heidi! And yes, she is pointed


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## FamHolter (Nov 24, 2010)

I'm gonna post some pictures. 

This is her face(duh) where you can see her "mask" and also some stripes in the "wrinkles" on her forehead. If you look closely, you can see some slight striping on her tail, and also a darker rim around her ears. This was taken when she was around 7 months old;










Here's another where you can quite clearly see the different colours on her ears. The forehead markings seem more blurred in this picture, as they did lighten as she got older. You can also see her tail is alot paler than in the previous picture. This was taken when she was around 18 months old.









So, when she was a kitty I was in no doubt, except from the lack of legstripes, but now she seems alot more "blurred" in her colours.


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## Vivid Dawn (May 31, 2010)

That's how Paizly got her name. When she was little, she was definitely a lynx point...but she did have some sort of 'swirl' of color on her rump - hence the "paisley".
Now that she's older, she's just kind of a mottled cream/brown, and even her tail doesn't really have stripes anymore so much as a tortie-sort of "puzzle pieces" look to it.


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## FamHolter (Nov 24, 2010)

Funny how that happens.. I've had alot of cats through the years, but none of them showed such a radical change in pattern as they grew.. It's fascinating, really!


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## catloverami (Jul 5, 2010)

Did you get her from a breeder? If you did, I'd send her pics taken from front and side views in _natural light_ (the flash is washing out the markings) and see what the breeder says her colour is now. The tail and legs aren't in clear view here. 
I would say "flame point" as the leg and tail barring, and forehead "M" markings aren't distinct enough.


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## Heidi n Q (Nov 22, 2006)

All red-based cats show their tabby pattern, whether they have agouti or not. 
Some cats' colors are very subtle so they appear as a single color w/ no tabby markings ... but they are there. Long haired cats can hide the tabby patterns even better, but again ... they are still there.


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## FamHolter (Nov 24, 2010)

catloverami said:


> Did you get her from a breeder? If you did, I'd send her pics taken from front and side views in _natural light_ (the flash is washing out the markings) and see what the breeder says her colour is now. The tail and legs aren't in clear view here.
> I would say "flame point" as the leg and tail barring, and forehead "M" markings aren't distinct enough.


Yes, I did, but I rescued her because she was crosseyed and not up to the breeders quality, so she was basicaly just being denied food untill she died.. I got her out before that, obviously. So messaging the breeder is not an option, and I doubt she'd talk to me.. I kinda reported her for animal abuse, so I'm not being invited over for tea anymore.

I'm just gonna call her a flame lynxpoint, as that's what her papers say.. Wont hurt anyone, as she's spayed..


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

FamHolter, what a terrible breeder! So glad you got her out of there! And good on you for reporting the crummy breeder!


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## FamHolter (Nov 24, 2010)

Yeah, it wasn't easy though, she was the mother of my then boyfriend, so I had to choose between him and the welfare of those cats. They lived in kennels, only let out when one of the girls was in season.. It was horrible. She is denied from ever owning as much as a tick in the future though, so I'm glad I made the decision. Now my little girl gets the royal treatment she deserves


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