# Shelter strange policies



## BryanOwnee (Feb 21, 2011)

I sent email to one of the local shelter that I’m interested in one cat. They replied to me:
_We would need to approve an application to adopt and do a home check before you visit her. _
_Let us know if you would like an application._
I really didn’t like the idea of checking my home even if it would be after seeing the cat so I replied:


_No, thank you. You have strange invasive policies. No wonder _(cat's name)_ still didn’t find a home yet._


I was just my personal, polite opinion and in return I got this in return:


_Great! _
_This is how we weed out the homes we dont want._
_Thats why i didnt even bother sending the application. Knew you wouldnt fill it out._
_People who fill things out and allow us to visit and make sure they live where they say they do, have nothing to hide. These adoptions are quick and successful everytime._
_People like you who think its invasive, have things to hide so we dont want you anyway. I will send your name to all the rescues now so you can be put on the do not adopt to, list for all the rescues shelters and pounds. _
_I'll attach your e-mail so they know you find us invasive and wont fill out an application. Even the spca has the applications now and does homechecks. _
_Guess you will have to find one from an owner or breeder. Its no bother, I'll let everyone know as all rescues do, that you dont like our practises. No reacue will bother you about any animal after that nor will they reply to your e-mail. no worries. Oh and, most owners are doing homechecks now too. Maybe just go to a breeding mill, Bengals go for only $1200 in _(city name)._ They all have herpis of the eyes but hey, thats breeders for ya! _
_And, she was adopted. Her kid was very alergic so I took her back_.


Now I’m really angry. Who they think they are? Ministry of children adoption or something? This cat had chance for a very good life with us. We are very passionate and we love cats. We want to adopt another one after Bryan, but we don’t want any stranger to sniff around my house. What, are they looking for to approve, a big mansions or something?

Have you heard about shelters that make home check even before seeing the cat? This is ridicules.


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## MeowMiaow (Feb 20, 2011)

That is ridiculous! >:-(


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## raecarrow (Oct 27, 2009)

If I were you, I would go out and find some way to post a review on this shelter. Their distain, thinly veiled in sarcasm, is inappropriate. A quick "We're sorry, we do not adopt out cats with out a home check" would have sufficed. All those diatribes and baseless accusations of supporting back yard breeders (and maligning breeders as a whole) is pathetic.

Honestly, I think that absolutely requiring a home check, especially when someone already owns a cat is rediculous. I can see doing this for someone who is a first time pet owner, but if you have a cat, a letter of recommendation from your vet should be good enough proof that you are a responsible owner.

I wouldn't deal with these people if I were you.


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## OctoberinMaine (Sep 12, 2006)

What a strange e-mail. I can understand that they do homechecks (even though, contrary to what she said, our SPCA doesn't do them), and I do like the idea of homechecks, but that's _after_ you've already met the cat and are sure you want to adopt him or her. I've never heard of them doing homechecks before you've even seen the cat!

I had a similar experience where the policies of a new cat-sitting company were so outrageous that I couldn't use them in good conscience. Time to find another shelter or organization, it sounds like!


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## swimkris (Jul 17, 2010)

Home checks are not a strange policy, and really good, responsible shelters that have the resources to do so take the time to do things like home checks. My shelter made me sign contracts to allow them to come visit my home if they were suspect of any issues (among several other agreements), and they would probably do pre-adoption visits if they had the time/people/money to do so. However, I think they went WAY overboard in their response to you. If they are going to be that rude, they are going to lose A LOT of prospective adopters! I would try to find out who the supervisor of the person that sent you the e-mail is & have a little heart to heart with them. This is not to say that I don't think you could have phrased your response better; that last sentence would really rub someone wrong. They obviously care about animals, and they probably view adopting out animals the same as adopting out children.


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## Alpaca (Dec 21, 2009)

I can see both sides of the issue here. I agree the return reply wasn't very professional, was worded poorly and very strongly opinionated. This person does need a course in tactful correspondence especially when representing an organization.

However, I have heard and seen of rescues and shelters requesting home visits. The policy itself is not necessarily unsound. I'm not saying that you are one of them, but there are a lot of psychos out there who WILL abuse/hurt/neglect animals. Having a home visit will help to eliminate some of the people who may fall into that category. It has nothing to do with the size of the house. The abusers/psychos will have tell tale signs in their domains to sound alarms. You cannot believe some of the people out there. Like this one:

More than 50 cats removed from Newark apartment | The Newark Advocate | NewarkAdvocate.com

Again, I'm not siding with anyone because I do not know either party personally. However, based on your reply. It did contain a remark that some people may find sarcastic and flippant 'No wonder , ____ (name of cat) hasn't found a home yet'.

Remember, they don't know you personally. All they have is your word on your cat experience, quality of living quarters etc. It wasn't supposed to be personal as they are trying to ascertain if you can provide a proper home for their rescue who may have been thru traumatic experiences. It's just unfortunate that they weren't able to reflect this in a more polite and diplomatic manner.


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## RowdyAndMalley (Aug 9, 2010)

There is no excuse for the final email they sent you, but you, unfortunately, started it. ALOT of shelters do home checks, to keep animals out of unsafe conditions. If you weren't comfortable with the home check a simple, Thank you would have sufficed. But by telling that the policies they use to protect the animals are keeping them from being adopted was uncalled for as well.


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## WhiteKitties (Dec 22, 2008)

I met my girls at the shelter first and then had the shelter founder come visit my home as they required it. I can see where you might not worry as much about a visit in a home that already has cats, but at the same just because someone has cats already doesn't mean they take good care of them and a home visit has the potential to uncover issues.

While I wouldn't say no to a home visit from any shelter, I can see where you could be offended by the policy. You DID go too far in your response to them, but their response back to you was way out of line. I agree that it's worth trying to contact someone in charge over there regarding the e-mail you received. It's okay to be picky and make sure a cat is going to a good home, but this will drive people away without even considering the shelter!


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## RachandNito (Nov 21, 2008)

In my city, we have a big university and we have a serious problem of students adopted pets and either their landlord doesn't allow it and the pet eventually gets evicted, or they dump the pet when they graduate. This is the reason the shelters around here do home checks- to make sure that the people really live where they say they do. They also will call landlords to check with them as well. Still, no shelter is going to get a pet adopted by being so snippy.


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## BryanOwnee (Feb 21, 2011)

Alpaca said:


> Remember, they don't know you personally.


They had a chance to meet me by giving me address (they don't advertise address online) and showing the cat. It is difference between home check before and after adoption. And what the purpose filling out application before seeing the animal? You see the cat, you decide and then you fill application.


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## BryanOwnee (Feb 21, 2011)

RowdyAndMalley said:


> But by telling that the policies they use to protect the animals are keeping them from being adopted was uncalled for as well.


Strange policy, I was referring to checking my home before seeing the cat and visiting the shelter. So they wanted to visit me before I go to shelter. Would you be happy with that?


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## Firebreak (Mar 22, 2011)

Wow, that email needs to be reviewed by this persons superior. It is entirely innapropriate and was full of retalitory comments. Honestly, I would think this shelter as a whole needs to be reviewed if the people who run it behave like this.


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## Dave_ph (Jul 7, 2009)

Yep, somebody higher up has to see that overreaction. I'm diagnosing someone with a personailty disorder.

Around here they at least threaten a home check and if you have other pets a vet's reccomendation and rabies vax confirmation for any other pets you have. 

I think they mostly want to make sure you're not a hoarder with 100 other cats.


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## BryanOwnee (Feb 21, 2011)

Firebreak said:


> Wow, that email needs to be reviewed by this persons superior. It is entirely innapropriate and was full of retalitory comments. Honestly, I would think this shelter as a whole needs to be reviewed if the people who run it behave like this.


Person who replied to me is a shelter founder.


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## lovetimesfour (Dec 1, 2010)

BryanOwnee said:


> They had a chance to meet me by giving me address (they don't advertise address online) and showing the cat. It is difference between home check before and after adoption. And what the purpose filling out application before seeing the animal? You see the cat, you decide and then you fill application.


The last time I adopted from a shelter, I filled out an application first, as there is at least a two week waiting period while the shelter checks references.

Once I was approved I began visiting the shelter every week or two until I was Chosen by the cat. Once Chosen, I was able to take her home, having already been approved, since she had already been spayed. 

A home visit was not required, though it may be now, that was over 6 years ago. But they called my landlord, my vet, and my personal references, and the application contained two pages of pet owner personality related questions such as will you keep the cat inside (can be a deal breaker as they require cats to be inside), what will you do if the cat scratches the couch, fights with other cats, gets sick, and so on.

Shelters and rescues just want to cut down on returned cats, and dumped cats and abused cats. They don't know you, and have seen all types, so can't be too careful. If you balk at the application process, then they are entitled to decide that your temperament is not to their liking. 

People looking for an easy way to get a cat are potentially looking for a cat to abuse, do unspeakable things to, or use in laboratory experimentation. I'm not saying you are. But those who work in shelters and rescue have seen it all, and want to make sure the ones they are responsible for are not going into some horrific situation.

However the email was out of line.


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

I had to fill out an extensive application and agree to a home visit *before* adopting the twins. I don't like that policy, either, but I also knew they were way too busy to bother doing it. 

Their response was rude, completely inappropriate and a huge overreaction. I don't think the person in charge of that organization would condone it for one minute, and I would certainly make sure they receive a copy of it. (I wouldn't judge the whole organization by that one person, either.)


********

ETA, just read your comment about the person being one of the founders. Hmmm, I guess you could judge the whole organization by that one person then. Although, I'd still try to send a copy to the other founders/board members.


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## MowMow (Nov 6, 2010)

Home visit is not an unusual policy. I think it's a very important part of adoption to be sure the animal is going to a suitable home. I had to sign something when I adopted MowMow saying that I agree to random home visits. They are welcome here at any time.

A pre adoption may not be a bad idea for smaller adoption places. If there are limited volunteers with limited hours they don't have time to visit with 20 people only to have 5 or 10 that are going to be eligible to adopt her. Find the people who are eligible and then see who she clicks with.

I would be all for a waiting period as well. It would prevent people making impulse adoptions that they are not prepared or equipped to deal with a pet. I also live in a college town and at the end of each school year there are endless homeless cats wandering the complex that the shelter has to come scoop back up again. More careful screening, waiting periods and home visits would lower the amount of animals coming back, imo.

On the other hand that response was WAY over the top and really unprofessional. That person just spewed a whole lot of hostility that was inappropriate. Take heart, I'm sure you'll find another adoption place with much easier adoption requirements.


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## Firebreak (Mar 22, 2011)

In contrast, I recently adopted Minto less than a week ago. I filled out 2 pages of personality related questions, then the shop keeper forwarded it to the SPCA. 15 minutes later I was approved to take her home. They just asked that we call soon to let them know how she is doing.


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## Alpaca (Dec 21, 2009)

I'm sure the answer to your response has already been answered by the others who have posted in your thread. I reiterate that I'm not saying you are one of them, but rescues and shelters have seen far too many disheartening cases of animal neglect and abuse. They would err on the side of caution in order to weed out the unscrupulous individuals.

There's also reason for rescues/shelter not advertising their address online. There are people who want to GET RID of their animals and when they see the address of the rescue/shelter, it will be easy for them to stuff the animal in the car and hop over to the place, then dump the animal on their doorstep.

And I'm totally not understanding what you are saying about what difference does it make for a home check before or after an adoption. Of course there's a difference. If they see your home AFTER adoption, isn't it after the fact? What if they find a home that is inappropriate? Do they then invade your home and forcefully take the cat back? That would be a case of trespassing.

Filling out the application is the first line of safety. Some will give answers on the app that will alert them of the inappropriateness of the person. The home check is the second step.

Yes, they can have a chance to see you as a person if they gave you their address, but they cannot see the living conditions of the potential adopter. 

Although as I said before, the answering email that the shelter gave you is highly offensive and is a personal attack. It is natural to feel offended and as most of us have stated, it IS highly inappropriate and rude. 

However, asides from that, you also seem to be questioning shelter policies and practices in general. Although it may seem like a lot of red tape and a bother, please bear in mind, there ARE nuts in the world who WILL do unspeakable things to a cat or dog or any animal. There are people who adopt animals to take them into laboratories to do experiments, college students who won't take care of pets after their school terms are over, impulsive people who adopt on a whim, etc etc. In the end, the rescues and shelters all want to help and prevent this sort of thing from happening to the animals they adopt out. Don't fault them for that.



BryanOwnee said:


> They had a chance to meet me by giving me address (they don't advertise address online) and showing the cat. It is difference between home check before and after adoption. And what the purpose filling out application before seeing the animal? You see the cat, you decide and then you fill application.


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## RowdyAndMalley (Aug 9, 2010)

BryanOwnee said:


> Strange policy, I was referring to checking my home before seeing the cat and visiting the shelter. So they wanted to visit me before I go to shelter. Would you be happy with that?


If I really wanted a cat and that was the company's policy then I would be fine with it. It is there way of protecting the animals, rather than have you come in and fall in love with a cat, and then have them disqualify you because of your home. They are just doing their job. Again, I am not excusing all of the response you received, but you have to understand where they are coming from.


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## Abbie (Jan 13, 2011)

I agree with Alpaca.

When we adopted a cat from a shelter in the Uk they did home checks and an application. Quite frankly, I wouldn't adopt an animal from a shelter that DIDN'T do home checks, as that says a lot about the place. 

Whilst I may not agree with their response (though I can see their point, and bear in mind the sheer number of people who contact them with the same response as you). I do think you started it, your email wasn't exactly far from rude.


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## suwanee (Jan 22, 2011)

Great responses! BryansOwner, I doubt they really forward your email to other shelters. I also doubt they actually "home visit". Having worked in a shelter, I know they are usually short staffed and overworked as it is. But it's a good screening tool. You'd be surprised how many just want to play with the cats, but when pressed for a application, won't do it. The shelter has to guard its resources and staff time wasted on looky-lous.

If they actually home-visited every applicant, they would need someone to make appointments, and two people to visit every home. They would have to use paid staff, for liability purposes, I would think. They would have to send two people, for safety. It seems to be prohibitively expensive for any shelter, unless this particular shelter is a Mom and Pop rescue, and only deals with a couple adoptions at a time - which may be the case. It could also be a breeder posing as a shelter to dump unwanted offspring. If this is a legitimate, known shelter then the other shelters in the area will have had other interactions with this person who emailed you, and I'm sure their character is known. Rescue is a small community. 

Don't let this stop you. If the next shelter says "home visit" and you truly have nothing to hide, say "Sure!" I'd be willing to bet no one actually comes out. Even if they do, it will be a two minute "inspection." They only care about condition and other animals. Not your personal stuff.


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## Carmel (Nov 23, 2010)

Could you send me a PM of the shelter website? I live in your area and would like to know which one you were dealing with. 

That said, I have seen a lot of places in BC adopt the method of an application first to weed people out, they don't have time to meet with everyone first and if you don't want to fill the forum out they view you as obviously not wanting their cat very badly... After the forum is filled out, even at the SPCA, there is a waiting period. Some places do home checks after this, and some even make you agree to home checks unexpectedly at any time. I think it's unlikely they actually will drop in randomly, but it's a threat, and they want to scare off the abusive people out there. I understand being a private person and not wanting to open up your home, but this is often how things are done now when adopting an animal unless you are paying to get one from a backyard breeder (they don't care) or an actual breeder (who would likely live too far away to do home check but hopefully does require a questionnaire filled out beforehand).

I do agree their response was way over the top, but yours was not kind either in saying "no wonder the cat isn't adopted".


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## Gloworm (Nov 19, 2010)

Home checks are normal and not invasive. I would rather them homecheck than send animals to unsuitable homes.

yes the email back was a little OTT, but you started it by calling their, frankly perfectly fine and necessary requirement, invasive. Your reply was childish, and to be honest, I do not blame them for their reply. I wouldn't want to adopt a cat out to a person who was unwilling to let me check their home was OK and made sly comments like that.


You want a cat, you let them check your home is fine. They dont go prying into your cupboards and drawers of bills...

It is not a right to have a cat. It is a responsibility. If you want one, you play by the rules of the shelter (and many many other shelters)


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## oceanmist (Feb 12, 2011)

I agree that home checks are pretty good. We had to do one before we adopted our dog(turns out we knew the person checking home...) and all they did was look at our yard and talk to my parents about what things needed to be changed for a puppy. I'd think it'd be the same concept...

But on the other hand their response wasn't very nice at all. They seem to be assuming a lot about you, just because you didn't want a person coming to your home to look around.


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## Quartermutt (Jun 23, 2010)

However, how do you know if you MUST HAVE THAT CAT NO MATTER WHAT if you are not allowed to meet it beforehand? Home checks prior to even looking at an animal is over the top! Why do they need to check out the premise if you end up not 'clicking' with the animal?


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## Gloworm (Nov 19, 2010)

Quartermutt said:


> However, how do you know if you MUST HAVE THAT CAT NO MATTER WHAT if you are not allowed to meet it beforehand? Home checks prior to even looking at an animal is over the top! Why do they need to check out the premise if you end up not 'clicking' with the animal?


Probably to put people on adoption 'books'

For example, you go to a shelter, find the cat you want, start adoption proceedings. The cat is put 'on hold' for you.

They go to your house. Its horrendous, and you aint getting a cat from them.

That cat has now not been adopted by you, and other people have not been able to adopt it in the meantime.

May as well make sure you are fine before setting in motion adoptions.


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## MowMow (Nov 6, 2010)

Quartermutt said:


> Why do they need to check out the premise if you end up not 'clicking' with the animal?


Because even if you don't click with *that* cat they have everything ready for when you find a cat that you DO click with. The paperwork is done, the home visit is done and the can just hand you the cat you bond with.


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## Sinatra-Butters (Aug 9, 2010)

I think both responses were inappropriate. However, I usually don't take threatening emails to heart when the person doesn't know how to work spell check.


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## Carmel (Nov 23, 2010)

Quartermutt said:


> However, how do you know if you MUST HAVE THAT CAT NO MATTER WHAT if you are not allowed to meet it beforehand? Home checks prior to even looking at an animal is over the top! Why do they need to check out the premise if you end up not 'clicking' with the animal?


It's not over the top, I bet a lot of adoption agencies would love to do this if they had the resources. This place they were contacting is likely a small organization, and they would rather not open up their home to hoards of people wanting to mill over their animals without knowing the people in question are serious, and without knowing the people in question have already passed the other necessary steps for adoption. Why have someone spend time with the cat just to later do the necessary home inspection only to find they do not pass? It's wasted the adoption agencies time. Sure, it's wasted the potential adopters time as well, but maybe they'd rather know where you live first before you know where they live. There are a lot of animal adoption places that do not give out their address freely, as there are a lot of twisted people in the world.

What it comes down to is, it's their cat to adopt out and it's their policies. They get to call the shots. If you don't like how they're run, you don't adopt from them. Maybe it's a lose lose situation because you'd be a great owner, but if you can't take their procedures seriously, they would likely rather wait for someone that will. Many people in this field view adopting out a cat as seriously as adopting out a child.


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## Greenport ferals (Oct 30, 2010)

Gloworm said:


> Home checks are normal and not invasive. I would rather them homecheck than send animals to unsuitable homes.
> 
> yes the email back was a little OTT, but you started it by calling their, frankly perfectly fine and necessary requirement, invasive. Your reply was childish, and to be honest, I do not blame them for their reply. I wouldn't want to adopt a cat out to a person who was unwilling to let me check their home was OK and made sly comments like that.
> 
> ...


Totally agree. They are just looking out for the cats' welfare. Your rather petulant refusal was a red flag which they have seen many times. Their shelter, their rules.


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## amelia100 (Mar 12, 2011)

*hi*

I echo the previous comments. I also think it's reassuring that the shelter takes these precautions before handing over a cat to a new owner.


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## Kobster (Feb 1, 2007)

I think applications and homechecks are essential and the best policy when the staff is available to do it. I actually do homechecks for a few rescues in my area. I also have never been able to adopt before filling out an application including references, and my references are always called and verified. 

Its pretty common practice on Petfinder to have to submit an application before getting to meet the animal. It weeds out time-wasters and is the most efficient way to find the right home for the pet, the first time around. I've never done a homecheck before the pet was even seen, but, I can see where in certain circumstances that might be warranted. (i.e. an out of state adoption, which are common in breed specific rescues)

The response email was OTT for sure. But be forwarned, there is a rescue group "blacklist" in most areas.


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## suwanee (Jan 22, 2011)

I'm glad to see they actually do the home checks! Since BryansOwnee had never heard of the practice before, maybe he will be able to explain his reasoning. It is common to be taken off the adoption eligibility list for more egregious reasons - but the OP's email hardly qualities as unfit for pet ownership. Poor judgement, yes.

OTOH, even if you haven't heard of the practice; if you have nothing to hide, why would it bother you?


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## BryanOwnee (Feb 21, 2011)

amelia100 said:


> I echo the previous comments. I also think it's reassuring that the shelter takes these precautions before handing over a cat to a new owner.


I didn't see the cat yet. All shelters in my area are wide open. You can see all cats before you adopt. I was in adoption procedure and I'm OK with that, but it was after I decided to take the cat.
If anyone would like to take a cat for inhuman reason, don't worry, they would put nice suit and fake smile on the face, would allow for home check before adoption and would do what they want to do.


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## suwanee (Jan 22, 2011)

BryanOwnee said:


> I didn't see the cat yet. All shelters in my area are wide open. You can see all cats before you adopt. I was in adoption procedure and I'm OK with that, but it was after I decided to take the cat.
> If anyone would like to take a cat for inhuman reason, don't worry, they would put nice suit and fake smile on the face, would allow for home check before adoption and would do what they want to do.


While it is true some people will go to extremes to lie, I doubt they would go this far when it is easy to pick up a cat on Craigslist or kijiji or the newspaper classifieds.

I've never heard of a public access shelter that didn't require the application before a one-on-one visit with any particular animal. Sure you can go in and look, but you can't usually visit with the animal one-on-one without the application being approved by staff.


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## suwanee (Jan 22, 2011)

So you were going to adopt a cat you've never seen? I would have to say that's not a very good plan. It was just based on the look of the cat?


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## Gloworm (Nov 19, 2010)

BryanOwnee said:


> I didn't see the cat yet. All shelters in my area are wide open. You can see all cats before you adopt. I was in adoption procedure and I'm OK with that, but it was after I decided to take the cat.
> If anyone would like to take a cat for inhuman reason, don't worry, they would put nice suit and fake smile on the face, would allow for home check before adoption and would do what they want to do.


There is nothing negative really about a home check. No more than having someone read your meter or give you a quote for building work.

Just checking that you have enough space and don't live in utter squalor or have a billion animals already. It is not an excuse to nosey into peoples decor, the loo roll they buy or who they bank with. 

It is not just for people who want an animal for an inhumane reason. A lot of people would genuinely have no idea they were ill equipped for a cat or unaware they had too many animals already. God the rabbit rehome site I am part of do home checks for rabbits too!


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## swimkris (Jul 17, 2010)

BryanOwnee said:


> I didn't see the cat yet. All shelters in my area are wide open. You can see all cats before you adopt. I was in adoption procedure and I'm OK with that, but it was after I decided to take the cat.
> If anyone would like to take a cat for inhuman reason, don't worry, they would put nice suit and fake smile on the face, would allow for home check before adoption and would do what they want to do.


If all the other shelters are wide open, then that is where the crazies will go. This shelter probably doesn't receive the same kind of funding as the others, so they can make up whatever rules they want. By making strict rules, they almost 100% ensure that their animals go to safe caring homes. Yes someone could go in there and pretend to be a nice person & all that, but why would they go to the trouble (and possibly raise people's suspicions in the process) when they can go to another shelter/pound to pick up the animals?


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## Carmel (Nov 23, 2010)

BryanOwnee said:


> I didn't see the cat yet. All shelters in my area are wide open. You can see all cats before you adopt. I was in adoption procedure and I'm OK with that, but it was after I decided to take the cat.
> If anyone would like to take a cat for inhuman reason, don't worry, they would put nice suit and fake smile on the face, would allow for home check before adoption and would do what they want to do.


Shelters like the SPCA allow it, of course they do, they have a lot of cats and dogs and animals of all kinds to adopt out and it wouldn't work any other way. These are large organizations that have paid staff as well as a massive number of volunteers, as well as government funding and fundraisers and sometimes even second-hand stores where proceeds go to caring for all the animals they take in, because it's a massive undertaking to run a place like that.

If you are trying to adopt from a smaller run group they have different rules and they likely aren't getting paid to do what they do and they don't have the time or money to waste if people aren't willing to fill out their forums and follow their rules to show they are serious.

The smaller run groups often have requirements like this. There's at least one smaller run place in BC that I know of that won't allow you to adopt one of their pets unless you agree on them dropping in at any time. They also don't have the means to be able to set up surveillance or a groundskeeper in case a psycho with their location thought it'd be funny to torch the place. Sometimes they're run out of their own home and they don't want anyone off the street knowing their location. It is a completely sound thing to ask to see your house first in this case. They're going to see it anyway if you like the cat, why not get it over with? If you have nothing to hide they'd be in and out in minutes, like already mentioned, they aren't looking at your bank statements.

The cat sanctuary I volunteer at - did you know it's the largest in North America? I bet you haven't even heard of it even though you live in the same area as I do... they don't advertise their location; they do not disclose it even though the cats there can be up for adoption if you meet the right requirements and as long as the cat is adoptable (some aren't). Their location isn't advertised and only open to the public on Sunday, they don't want drop offs and they don't want people showing up at all hours of the day to view their cats, or worse, steal or vandalise the location. Some of the cats from that location are sent to the city shelter, where they are viewable to the public. If you show up at the city shelter, you'd never know that the cats came from a huge sanctuary a few miles away that hardly anyone knows about, even though there's close to 700 cats there.


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

suwanee said:


> So you were going to adopt a cat you've never seen? I would have to say that's not a very good plan. It was just based on the look of the cat?


To be fair, that's how a lot of us got our cats. I saw Cinderella’s ad and Cleo’s ad on Craigslist, and the twins’ pictures on Petfinder.


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## suwanee (Jan 22, 2011)

marie73 said:


> To be fair, that's how a lot of us got our cats. I saw Cinderella’s ad and Cleo’s ad on Craigslist, and the twins’ pictures on Petfinder.


Hmm. I still say it's a *better* plan to spend some time with them. How do you know if they will let you touch them, groom them, etc.? What if there is some health issue that you will notice? It's just better to have some personal time with them. Necessary? No. 


I noticed while working in shelters that often the cat picks the person. A cat will sleep for three days straight, then a certain voice or smell will come in and suddenly that cat is at the cage front rubbing and purring. It was the oddest thing! I totally believe in the cat/human chemistry.


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## BryanOwnee (Feb 21, 2011)

suwanee said:


> Hmm. I still say it's a *better* plan to spend some time with them. How do you know if they will let you touch them, groom them, etc.? What if there is some health issue that you will notice? It's just better to have some personal time with them. Necessary? No.


Risks are parts of our life. We risk to adopt an animal. Shelters risks giving them for adoption. Unfortunately (or fortunately) without risk cats wouldn't find homes and love they need.


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

Well, of *course* I met them all before adopting them.


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## MowMow (Nov 6, 2010)

BryanOwnee said:


> Risks are parts of our life. We risk to adopt an animal. Shelters risks giving them for adoption. Unfortunately (or fortunately) without risk cats wouldn't find homes and love they need.


I think that all depends on the person doing the risking. If someone makes a commitment and adopts the cat sight/personality unseen and works through any difficulties and gives that a cat a healthy happy life then great. If they go through the effort and work that Marie has with Gigi...they deserve a medal.

However if they choose a cat because it looks 'cool' or looks like a specific breed they like then get it home and decide they don't like the personality. What if it doesn't get along with a current pet and the adopter just gets frustrated and doesn't want to work on the issues. Now the cat is no better off than in the shelter.

I saw a lot of foster dogs come through my house that could have avoided a lot of emotional issues/behavioral problems if the original had put some thought and effort into what sort of puppy they SHOULD get instead of what looked 'cool' or was most popular.


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## suwanee (Jan 22, 2011)

marie73 said:


> Well, of *course* I met them all before adopting them.


Oh. Well the reason I made that comment to the OP was because he said all this happened as he was in the adoption process, he had already decided on the cat, but hadn't met the cat. Semantics, I guess. I misunderstood.....I think......


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## jusjim (Jun 30, 2009)

suwanee said:


> So you were going to adopt a cat you've never seen? I would have to say that's not a very good plan. It was just based on the look of the cat?


I suppose there are many ways of choosing a cat companion.

But a cat is a cat, and unless there's something seriously wrong with the animal, where's the problem? It's a gamble. You make friends if the cat wants. Otherwise you attend to its needs. I adopted Zenobi and all I'd seen was her face and a pair of very depressed looking eyes. She needed out of that cage. I'd actually gone down to the shelter to see about fostering to find out how I'd get on with a cat after so many years without one. The next day I took her home. She bit me the following day, leaving me to wonder what *'I'd'* done wrong. But we got all that sorted and Zenobi was the most wonderful animal companion. It broke my heart when I was told she had metastasising lung cancer.

Tigger, the next cat, wouldn't eat for me, but we rapidly formed a close bond. The vet wouldn't treat her (it seems she had undisclosed periodontal disease) and made me take her back to the shelter. 

Missy got picked because she was overweight and they said she needed to go on a diet. I thought her chance of being adopted low. We're very fond of one another.

All three were quick picks. Zenobi next day pick up after seeing her (I needed to get stuff), the other two same day as meeting to take home. I'm not sure that getting a cat companion should be like buying a pair of shoes.

But everyone to their own method.


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## jusjim (Jun 30, 2009)

When I adopted Zenobi I had to agree to a home inspection. I got a follow-up call as to how things were going and I asked when would they like to come around. I was told they didn't do home inspections. I suspect that the request for a home inspection was just an enquiry. I understand that a lot of poor cats have had problems with the wrong adopters. I'm not sure I would have been allowed to adopt Zenobi if I'd refused.

The question I found strangs was, "Where will the cat sleep?" I didn't get this at all, and it still makes me laugh. "Anywhere it #^%& wants," would have been the answer. It seems though, what they wanted to know was 'inside' or 'out'. That in itself gives some indication of how some people might treat a cat. I'm all for shelters being cautious.


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## BryanOwnee (Feb 21, 2011)

suwanee said:


> OI made that comment to the OP was because he said all this happened as he was in the adoption process, he had already decided on the cat, but hadn't met the cat. Semantics, I guess. I misunderstood.....I think......


I didn't decide on the cat yet. I just wanted to see him.


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## toll_booth (Jan 31, 2010)

BryanOwnee said:


> I sent email to one of the local shelter that I’m interested in one cat. They replied to me:
> _We would need to approve an application to adopt and do a home check before you visit her. _
> _Let us know if you would like an application._
> I really didn’t like the idea of checking my home even if it would be after seeing the cat so I replied:
> ...


Decent position on their part, but horrible wording. I'm sure if it's already been asked, but do you know if the director/manager/supervisor knows about this email? Or was he or she the one to send it?


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## suwanee (Jan 22, 2011)

BryanOwnee said:


> I didn't decide on the cat yet. I just wanted to see him.


Thanks for clearing that up! I misunderstood, then....


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

jusjim said:


> The question I found strangs was, "Where will the cat sleep?" I didn't get this at all, and it still makes me laugh. "Anywhere it #^%& wants," would have been the answer.


That was my answer on the applications for Gigi and or the twins. "Wherever they want." :grin:


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

There are two reasons for the adoption application...the first is to see what kind of stupidity someone might admit to right up front. The second is to give the counselor a starting point to draw the stupidity out...

Counselor: I see you've had 3 cats and 2 dogs in the last 7 years, do you still have any of them
Adopter: No
C: What happened to them?
A: Well, Cat A was peeing all over the house, so we had to get rid of her.
C: Did you take her to the vet? Did she have a UTI?
A: No she was just spiteful, we had to give her to a shelter.
C: Um, OK...what about the others?
A: Well, we got Cat B and had him for about a year, but then we got a puppy and the cat didn't like the puppy, so we had to give him away.
C: Hmmm...what happened to the puppy?
A: Well we had to move and couldn't take him with us so we gave to him to the neighbors.
C: What happened to Cat C?
A: She kept scratching the furniture, we got her declawed but she still wanted to go outside and then one day she didn't come home...I guess something got her. Dumb cat, should have known she didn't have claws and stayed in.
C: Uh huh...Dog B?
A: We really wanted her to have a litter of puppies, but there was some sort of complication and she died.
C: So why do you want a cat today?
A: Well I don't really want another cat, my 6 year old daughter wants one. I figure it's a good way for her to learn some responsibility. If she doesn't take care of it, it's coming right back here.
C: Hmmm, ok, well I don't think we're going to be able to help you with getting a cat.
A: (angry) What do you mean, why not? We're good pet owners. You people are too freakin' picky. I'm going to report you to the BBB. blah, blah, blah.

And yes, I heard all of the answers above at one time or another when I was doing adoption counseling.


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## saitenyo (Nov 28, 2010)

marie73 said:


> That was my answer on the applications for Gigi and or the twins. "Wherever they want." :grin:


Hahah I put the same thing down for Athena.

Apollo we got at the county pound so there wasn't any lengthy application, but we got Athena from a no-kill rescue and I swear I spent like 2 hours agonizing over that application. I probably fretted too much, but we'd already gone to look at her and really wanted her! I ended up writing paragraphs on steps I would take to solve any issues (health, behavior, etc.)


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## BryanOwnee (Feb 21, 2011)

saitenyo said:


> I probably fretted too much, but we'd already gone to look at her and really wanted her!


At least you saw the cat before application.


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## love.my.cats (Jan 29, 2009)

Wow. I understand why shelters do home checks and I respect that you don't feel comfortable having people you don't know checking over your home. Although home checks are becoming more and more popular, I think their response to you is way over the top!


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## Quartermutt (Jun 23, 2010)

I have no objections to home checks and filling out an application to adopt. My objection is to doing this before meeting the animal or even deciding whether to adopt from that specific organization. I will not even consider doing paperwork until I find the animal I wish to adopt or at the least a specific organization which to adopt from (for specialized agencies)! 

If I am in a looking/browsing stage, it ain't going to happen!


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

I do understand filling out the application to begin with, but I don't think they would do home visits unless you've already selected a cat and have been approved up to that point. I think that's the final step. I certainly wouldn't want someone doing a home inspection before that point, that's pretty intrusive.


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## BryanOwnee (Feb 21, 2011)

marie73 said:


> I do understand filling out the application to begin with, but I don't think they would do home visits unless you've already selected a cat and have been approved up to that point. I think that's the final step. I certainly wouldn't want someone doing a home inspection before that point, that's pretty intrusive.


That was my thinking too, when I replied to the shelter.


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## Dave_ph (Jul 7, 2009)

You should try adopting a husky*. The local Husky rescue asks if you've seen the movie _Eight Below_ and what should have been done differently.

Answer: they should have thrown the equiptment out of the plane and taken the dogs first.




* I haven't a friend has.


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## melysion (Mar 12, 2007)

I understand the home check policy but I can't help but think its incredibly intrusive. I've already decided that when I adopt another cat, I'm going to the one place in London that doesnt require a home check (a highly respected establishment I should add). That, or just go on gumtree (think criagslist) as I did with Toby.

As for the case in question - your reply was a wee bit rude, but their response was waaaay over the top. Talk about unprofessional! Theres no excuse for that sort of response at all from a shelter. A polite 'sorry but thats our policy, you either agree to our procedures or go elsewhere' will have sufficed.


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## BryanOwnee (Feb 21, 2011)

melysion said:


> As for the case in question - your reply was a wee bit rude, but their response was waaaay over the top.


I agree maybe there was a very little rudeness, because it was immediate reply. I just felt sorry for the cat that is advertized for over 2 months as still available. This kitty should find home already.


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## saitenyo (Nov 28, 2010)

BryanOwnee said:


> At least you saw the cat before application.


Yeah, well, we saw her on PetFinder and noted that the rescue organization did adoption fairs at the local PetCo, so we just went to the weekend one in the hopes she'd be there (and she was). I think their usual policy is that people fill out an application first before setting up an appointment to meet a cat, but obviously for cats being shown at the adoption events, anyone can walk over and look at them.

My guess is this policy exists so they don't waste time with problem adoptees (i.e. if someone says they're going to declaw the cat, or whatever). It probably saves them the trouble of having to arrange a meeting only to find out the owner doesn't match their policies, and then having to tell the person they can't have the cat, whereas they figure anyone serious enough about adopting will be willing to fill out an application ahead of time, even if they're not sure about the cat yet.

Obviously you want to meet the cat before adopting, that's just smart. But I think the applications are more, "I'm interested in possibly adopting this cat and want to meet them/learn more," rather than an affirmative statement that you will adopt this cat.

Anyway, as for the home check thing, I can see both sides. The shelter I got Athena from stated they do home checks, but I honestly think they only do it if there's a concern about an adopter, or just say they do to ward off problem adopters or something, because they didn't even mention one when I applied to adopt Athena.

I understand being uncomfortable about them. Despite having nothing to hide I didn't really like the idea of a stranger in my home, judging my home. And I was worried that somehow they'd find something wrong that I missed and say I wasn't allowed to have a cat, or something ridiculous like that, but I'm not sure how often that actually happens. I don't think most shelters are looking to stress people out or judge them or nitpick everything about their lifestyle, home, etc, I just think they put those precautions in place _in case_ they encounter a potential problem adopter. Like say they suspect someone is a cat hoarder: a home check will allow them to see this. But I think for most adopters who look totally fine on the application, they don't actually bother with them.

Unfortunately I do think _some_ shelters get a bit persnickity and defensive and even antagonistic with their behavior. Like the reply to your email. While I agree your email was maybe a bit hostile as well, they could have replied much better. A good shelter should be willing to work with a potential adopter to explain their policies and why they have them, and determine whether an adopter's wariness over a policy is really a "red flag" or just a lack of understanding behind the policy's reasoning. I think sometimes people forget that not everyone has done volunteer work or adopted from a shelter before, so even if they're a great cat/dog owner, they may not understand all the policies, and a good owner will of course be willing to learn. 

But yeah, the whole situation seems like it kind of exploded unnecessarily, which is unfortunate for everyone involved, especially the cat. :/


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## saitenyo (Nov 28, 2010)

Also, all that said, if you don't feel comfortable with the stricter policies of some rescue organizations, there are shelters/pounds that are much more lax (don't do home-checks, some don't even have much of an application). Kill shelters (like the county/city pound) are usually far more lax. We got our first cat from one specifically because our prior lack of personal cat ownership (other than family cats growing up) made me worry that I wouldn't "qualify" for some stricter application since I couldn't talk about much past cat experience, and because there was an overflow of kittens at our local kill shelter (and Apollo likely would have been euthanized because he was not a very family/kid-friendly cat what with all his problem behavior).

There are pros and cons to each type of organization, and I think it's equally valid to adopt from either. Although one of the pros of a no-kill shelter _is_ admittedly that you usually have a better medical/behavioral history because they have fosters who have spent time with the animals, which is potentially important since you already have a cat. You probably want to make sure a new cat won't be carrying anything that could get Bryan sick, and you'll want to be able to have a decent idea of the new cat's personality and whether or not they'll be compatible with Bryan.


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## Fyreflie (Mar 5, 2011)

> or they dump the pet when they graduate.


 this is what happened to Wicket  We think, anyway. 

Lots of places here in Canada do home checks (especially for dogs, i.e. rescue Greyhounds) and I would think of any shelter who had the resources and time as doing a good job ensuring they're going to have cats in a happy, healthy situation. 

Their email back was unprofessional, no matter whether or not you made a sarcastic remark in your email to them. I wouldn't take the policy itself personally, it seems reasonable to me to expect a home visit if they don't know you, but fighting about it is silly. You either are, or are not comfortable having people come to your house to take a look. It doesn't mean you're irresponsible. And, I would point out, unless they are very well known, have a better business bureau report etc. it is irresponsible of YOU to allow strangers into your house (what if they sniff out valuable electronics, then come back and steal your TV?). 

Anyway. Sucky that they're so reactionist.


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## suwanee (Jan 22, 2011)

*A Shelter Perspective*

One other thing:

I worked in a cat area of a low-kill private shelter on Saturdays. In a five hour shift, we would often have 40-50 people come through. Some just wanted to visit, some were looking for lost pets, some were serious adopters. 

About half of them wanted to play with the cats out of the cages, and probably 75% of them tried to touch the cats. We didn't allow touching at all before the adoption application approval for several reasons:

1.) Safety of the people. Cats aren't themselves in a shelter environment and especially in tiny cage. Declawed cats are often dangerous in a cage. There are dogs barking nearby , lots of other cats; some of them not neutered. All the people coming through during their nap time and no privacy for the litter box are just a couple more stressors. Cats already don't like change. Imagine their discomfort.

2.) Safety of the cats. Volunteers and staff are trained to sanitize their hands, toys, blankets, litter boxes etc, after EVERY cat touch. The worst thing at a shelter is disease. Once one gets it, they all get it if you touch without sanitizing. URIs are devastating for adoptions. We had a hospital ward that was always packed to overflowing with URIs and then every other illness that needs treatment. It only takes one sneeze/touch/touch to spread. Most shelter cats get a URI. Fact of life. If Coccidia breaks out it can be mass euthanization for the kittens and puppies. There is Ring Worm, which can spread to all the animal on the air, it's also zoonotic, so humans, dogs etc all are vulnerable - not to mention the pets in everyone's homes. There are lots more diseases. Disease in shelters is just a really bad deal. 

Every one-on-one visit requires sanitizing the entire ROOM that the cat visits in before it can be used again. Shelters don't have unlimited staff or visiting areas. It's a juggling act at best to get potential adopters in a vacant clean room with the cat.

3.) Liability. The obvious. Someone's 12 year old gets scratched/bitten. An elderly woman is injured by a large dog. The list goes on, but it is a real problem for shelters. Not allowing touch is one way to avoid injuries, but the application process also waives liability (as much as is possible) for the shelter, and obtains written information about everyone who touches the animals.


I can't stress enough how many discussions I've had where people get all huffy because of shelter policies. I hope this helps explain some of the reasons shelters have to do what they do. Treating illness in a shelter is very expensive and means the animal can't be adopted for that period of time. Even if their owners come looking, they may miss each other if the cat is in quarantine. Shelters are not made of money. They can't let you visit with the animals if you haven't filled out an application and gone through their pre-adoption counselling process. 

There just aren't enough hours in the day, nor enough lawyers and veterinarians to have it work that way. There is not enough space either, so if 50 cats are in the hospital area, that's 50 cats taking up a cage: so 50 more cats will have to go to the kill shelter. 

It's up to you and me and all of us. I don't understand the indignation of humans who can't understand this. What about the animals?


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## Dave_ph (Jul 7, 2009)

I really think the home visits are just to make sure you're not an animal horder and maybe to tell you not to leave those rubber bands lying around and such. 

I was actually rejected by a high kill shelter here before I got Mia because I said 'yes, I have a cat' but didn't have proof that Fay had her rabies vax. I hope little Romeo found a home. He had personality, came right out of the cage onto my shoulder.


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

Dave_ph said:


> I really think the home visits are just to make sure you're not an animal horder and maybe to tell you not to leave those rubber bands lying around and such.


Or to make sure you're not a complete and utter slob. A friend once asked to go for a ride to her stepson's house...she need to deliver a birthday gift to their baby (her husband had passed away and she was trying to maintain the relationship). It was an hour and a half ride, my first warning of what I was walking into was when we got to their town...she pulled into a gas station and said "if you need to go to the bathroom do it here, it will be much cleaner than their house. And if you want something to drink buy a water or soda here, you don't want to drink or eat anything there."

The place had dirty dishes on every surface, the sink was piled above the rim. The kitchen table had a mountain of stuff on it that was over my head. The living room had french fries ground into the carpet and a dirty diaper thrown in the corner...with enough other stuff around it that I knew it had been there for days. I perched on the edge of a chair because of the crud caked on the cushion. I have never seen anyone live in such filth, it was totally disgusting. 

Basically, if I were doing a home check on this place there was no way in the world I would have given them a cat.


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## Sinatra-Butters (Aug 9, 2010)

doodlebug said:


> A friend once asked to go for a ride to her stepson's house...she need to deliver a birthday gift to their baby


Maybe they should do home inspections for babies. :?


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## Dave_ph (Jul 7, 2009)

doodlebug said:


> Or to make sure you're not a complete and utter slob.


Rut-rho. I wouldn't have been approved. 

I have this kitchen couter that I rarely see the surface of. Not dirt and there are no dirty dishes but I do accumulate paperwork, receipts and all sorts of flyers I'll probably never use.

Then there's the coffee table. Someday I'll read those books and go thru the accumulated IRA and 401K paperwork and see the surface of that again. 

I'm gonna hire someone to dust any day now.

That all has to be cleared up before I can bring in a kitty sitter and use some of my 200,000 plus frequent flyer miles. (Now that sitter is gonna go thru a brutal qualification process). I wanna eat my way across Japan like Anthony Bourdain.


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

Everyone has some clutter Dave...the only thing that was gonna help this place was a bomb. 

And yes, I really wanted to take the baby out of there.


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## suwanee (Jan 22, 2011)

Maybe should wait to eat yourself across Japan. I hear it's a bit cluttered there right now.

/end highjack


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## paperbacknovel (Jun 9, 2010)

BryanOwnee said:


> They had a chance to meet me by giving me address (they don't advertise address online) and showing the cat. It is difference between home check before and after adoption. And what the purpose filling out application before seeing the animal? You see the cat, you decide and then you fill application.


My humane society insists that anyone wanting to meet a cat or dog has to have an adoption application approved FIRST. They are busy and have hundreds of animals- they don't have time to waste showing cats to just anyone, just to find out that they aren't approved adopters.

It makes all kinds of sense to have the adoption application approved first before meeting the cats. Sorry. It doesn't mean you have to adopt the cat or pay for them, it just means that you are OK'd as an adopter.

Also, MANY rescues have a home visit policy. Tons of them do. The one we adopted Forte from has a home visit policy, but since we live so far away (and since we sent them videos and pictures of Forte in his new home), they did not enforce it. They want to make sure the cat isn't going into a hoarding situation or an unsanitary/unsafe location. 

I agree that their response was rude and over-the-top...they need lessons in how to professionally correspond with people...but your email to them would have made me mad, too. It's not about judging the value of your home, it's about making sure your home is safe and sanitary. They would rather keep the cats in the rescue (which they know is safe and clean) than adopt them out to a potentially unsafe situation.


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## Gloworm (Nov 19, 2010)

Yup Im certainly untidy but not dirty


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## saitenyo (Nov 28, 2010)

raecarrow said:


> A lot of people think that messy=dirty. However, I think there is a BIG difference between messy and dirty.
> 
> Messy = there is clutter on horizontal surfaces, dust bunnies in the corners and under furniture, a large pile of dirty clothes on the floor, the recycling needs to go out and the dishes may be left in the sink for a day or so. But if food is spilled on the floor, the cat/dog/kid makes a mess with "bodily solids or fluids" or serious dirt gets tracked around it gets cleaned it up. And every once in a while the place gets a major cleaning
> 
> Dirty = basically what doodlebug discribed. You allow things to fester and the environment is unhealthy.


Agreed. I'm fine with clutter/sanitary mess. I let clutter pile up sometimes when I'm too exhausted to organize. But unsanitary germs, food, bodily fluids...that's what I find gross. I had a room mate that would just leave half-eaten cans of tuna rotting on the carpet for days. D:


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## Dave_ph (Jul 7, 2009)

I never cleaned UNDER furniture until Fay started sleeping under my bed (to avoid the energizer colorpoint). Now it's time. I can't have her breathing in dust.


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## Alpaca (Dec 21, 2009)

Isn't it amazing that once you get a cat, you become much, much cleaner? For example, I'm forced to clean the top of the pantry where I normally don't because Miu likes to hang out there. I also vacuum way more than I used to. My house is almost immaculately clean because of the furkids.


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## Carmel (Nov 23, 2010)

Alpaca said:


> Isn't it amazing that once you get a cat, you become much, much cleaner?


... gotta say, I have never noticed this.  If anything it's more of a constant downhill battle with maintaining litterboxes (if you've got lots of cats) and cat hair speading everywhere ("I can't wear black until I'm OUT the door..."), as well as cat pukes and hairballs. Cleaning the house as a whole has never happened just because of my cats, only cleaning up after them.


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## suwanee (Jan 22, 2011)

Carmel said:


> ... gotta say, I have never noticed this.  If anything it's more of a constant downhill battle with maintaining litterboxes (if you've got lots of cats) and cat hair speading everywhere ("I can't wear black until I'm OUT the door..."), as well as cat pukes and hairballs. Cleaning the house as a whole has never happened just because of my cats, only cleaning up after them.












I had a lady on the bus say to me once, "No outfit is complete without cat hair."

I have resorted to carrying sticky tape in my bag to remove offending hairs. 

The cats make more cleaning necessary, for sure.


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

I had someone say to me once, "How do you *not* have cat hair on your clothes?" 

Because I don't roll around on my rug before coming to work, you dolt!

Actually, my girls aren't allowed in my closet (except Cleo), and as soon as I get home from work, I go in the bedroom to change clothes.

I do have a sticky clothes brush in my bag, my car and at home. :grin: Mostly for my casual (black) shoes.


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## MowMow (Nov 6, 2010)

Dave_ph said:


> I never cleaned UNDER furniture until Fay started sleeping under my bed (to avoid the energizer colorpoint). Now it's time. I can't have her breathing in dust.


Ur doin it wrong. Just tie a bunch of dust mops to her and send her under the bed. :wink


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