# Heart attack and blood clot



## gracie83 (Jul 31, 2007)

Sorry just needed to have a quick vent!

On Monday night things went horribly wrong for my cat. She had gone from sleeping on my lap before jumping off and returning a few minutes later hobbling badly. She jumped on the sofa and held up her paw. Her eyes were fully dilated and she was breathing so quickly. With my hubbies help we checked her leg for injuries - nothing obvious but her foot was cooling and she tried to wriggle away when we touched the top of her leg. It was so pitiful watching her trying to walk she had no control of her foot at all! So a quick call to the out of hours vets and we get her to the hospital thinking she had broken or damaged her leg some how. We were so no expecting what the vet said. She spend ages listening to her heart before taking her from the room. Eventually she came back and said it was most likely a blood clot in her leg and that they would admit her overnight try to stabilize her and if she survives the night start investigating. 

So we went home and the next day we were told that she had had a heart attack which had caused the blood clot to move which had paralysed her leg. She has advanced heart disease and one of the chambers of her heart no longer contracts. Apparently she should have been dead. The vets have never seen a blood clot affect a left front leg before. Normally it goes to the back legs and paralyses them or if it is a front leg it is the right one. Thankfully the clot is in her wrist so there is a chance that eventually she will be able to regain mobility of the foot.

The vets say that as long as she continues to fight they will release her from the hospital this evening. They say there is no immediate reason to euthanize her but to be aware that she could have another blood clot or heart attack at any time. They have given her a life expectancy from 'could be hours' to 'longest I have ever seen is 2 years' but a few months is most likely. Basically treat any day we wake up and find she is still alive as a bonus. As an owner though this terrifies me. It was frightening enough dealing with what we thought was a broken leg, the thought of just waiting for her to either collapse due to advanced heart failure or yowling in agony because another clot has paralysed her hind legs is beyond distressing! It also scares me that she is going to be on a lot of medication. Her sister (who is currently being checked for suspected cancer) was on antibiotics for a UTI for three weeks and pilling her was a nightmare. After two weeks she had utterly lost all trust in us and was even standing up and leaving when we entered a room! That was just a once a day tablet. I can see us having to give Toshi so many more pills than that. I can just see the situation of us being the cause of the final fatal heart attack caused by the stress of us trying to get pills down her throat.

However she has fought hard to remain on this earth and so the least we can do is to try to help her though what time she has left - no matter how frightening I find it! Knowing when to call an end to this is going to be so hard. It is just so very sad! Until Monday I had absolutely no concerns about the health of my lap cat and yet here she is on borrowed time.

Anyone have an experience of caring for a cat with serious heart issues?


----------



## cat face (Apr 4, 2013)

oh wow! I am so sorry to hear about your lap kitty! I don't have any kind of experience to offer. I only WISH I had something useful to say. Just I'm sorry Toshi is having to deal with any of this and you as well.

Take care of yourselves, I will say a prayer for you all


----------



## katrina89 (Jul 30, 2013)

I'm so very sorry... I think you need to think long and hard about the quality of life she is going to have... is she going to be in pain and stress for the next cou ple months?
I would be questioning whethrr or not to give her peace... only you can know if your cat is still enjoying life...so its just something to think about

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## 0ozma (Sep 22, 2012)

Yikes sorry you have to go through that. Best wishes to you and your cats


----------



## emilyatl (Sep 9, 2013)

OMG, I know you must be terrified. I don't have any experience with this, but hope someone can help you out on this forum. Hang in there!


----------



## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

Wow...sounds very scary. 

Kobi has congestive heart failure. To save some $$ I get his pills from a human pharmacy ($10 for a 90 day supply). The consequence is that I have to cut one of them in half and the other in quarters. They're small pills to begin with so what I have to give him is very tiny. I just crush them and put the "dust" in wet food. 

I started off putting the meds in a dab of baby food and giving him that before his regular meal. Once I knew he'd eat it with no problem I just started mixing it in his food because he eats it all in one sitting. I do separate him so Holly & Jake can't get at his food/meds.


----------



## NBrazil (May 16, 2013)

*My take on this... a mystic's point of view*



> She has advanced heart disease and one of the chambers of her heart no longer contracts.
> 
> They say there is no immediate reason to euthanize her but to be aware that she could have another blood clot or heart attack at any time. They have given her a life expectancy from 'could be hours' to 'longest I have ever seen is 2 years' but a few months is most likely.
> 
> However she has fought hard to remain on this earth and so the least we can do is to try to help her though what time she has left - no matter how frightening I find it! Knowing when to call an end to this is going to be so hard. It is just so very sad! Until Monday I had absolutely no concerns about the health of my lap cat and yet here she is on borrowed time.



I really don't what can be said, what I can say to comfort you. I'm new to cat ownership/companionship and have discovered the emotional bond that can be created between cat and human. When I thought my guy had a heart problem I just cried while I left him to be examined... home felt so lonely... and I'd only had him 4 months!

But, that much being said, based on the above statements taken from your post I would prepare to euthanize her. By prepare I mean hold her, TALK to her about what is going on and project your love to her. Animals have a simpler soul than humans, and although the animal cannot comprehend, the soul CAN. The passing of a cat to the so-called rainbow bridge is not actually very traumatic, the cat over soul knows, there is no fear... that's a human thing.

So I believe that it would be less traumatic for you and your girl to seriously consider this. Be blessed that you have the opportunity to gift her with the release from this terrible thing... hold her and, I repeat, talk to her... clear and open your mind to receive anything back. It is possible that you can receive a communication (it comes in pictures, feelings... not words) that she wants to fight or she understands and wants to go.


----------



## chuck72 (Jan 30, 2012)

oh boy, sorry to hear about your kitty troubles. i dont have any experience with a heart kitty, but we have to admin fluids and give pills. our kitty hated us for months, but now back to normal trust level. we started putting her pills in little appetizer salmon cream cheese balls. the large pills we quarter. she got bored with the cream cheese so now we make little meat balls out of her favorite food. one of her meds is available from thrivingpets.com in liquid salmon flavor. that one is easy to squirt on her food and she likes it.

i was worried about quality of life for our baby when she got sick, but after a few months she adapted and likes us again. now that that she is medicated she feels good. we baby her and treat everyday as a gift - and every day truly is a gift with our queen. i would love to see updates on how your sweetie pie is doing. im hoping she surprises you with her toughness. animals dont get anymore resilient than cats. whats your girls name?


----------



## laurief (Jun 22, 2008)

I am so sorry for what you and your girl are going through. I know all too well what it's like to live with a "borrowed time" kitty. I spend a good part of every day borrowing more time for my elderly, chronically ill animal companions.

There are several strategies you can use to make medicating MUCH easier. One is to have meds compounded into flavored liquids or treats. The compounding pharmacy I use is BCP Pharmacy in Houston, TX. You can find them in a google search. I have used their liver-flavored, medicated chews with great success. They also offer other flavors of chews, as well as flavored liquids and transdermal gels. In some cases (depending on the meds), they can compound several drugs into the same medicated chew or liquid.

Alternately, you can go to a pharmacy and buy empty gelcaps from the pharmacist. Then you can ask your vet which meds can be given together, and stuff them in as few gelcaps as possible. You can then either administer the gelcaps with a pet piller or try putting them in something like a Pill Pocket or other edible treat. Using one of these options makes medicating MUCH easier and less stressful for both you and your cat. Heck, if you get the meds in transdermal form (which you just rub onto the inner ear flap), you may not have to give any meds by mouth at all.

You'll be able to find a method that works for you and your girl without making either of you anxious or miserable. Then you'll be able to concentrate on enjoying every precious day you have together.

Laurie


----------



## 10cats2dogs (Jun 16, 2013)

Oh poor baby...How scary...
Enjoy your time with her...spoil her rotten and enjoy cuddles, as much as she wants...
You will probably know when it's time to let her go...
Hugs and Prayers


----------



## gracie83 (Jul 31, 2007)

Thank you for the replies. 

We got her back last night and we have to go back to the vets on Monday morning for a checkup and to have more bloods taken (the underlying tone from the vets was if she is still alive ... ' 

The return home was traumatic for both cats. Chloe immediatly started hissing and acting defensively towards Toshi and Toshi just wanted to be lying (flumped) on her side somewhere quiet. Thankfully she has regained some movement of her paw again so it is not completly paralysed. It is sad watching her run up the stairs and then flump over as soon as she gets to the top. This is the same cat who only on Sunday night was charging around the house leaping on things. I don't know how vets can look at a cat in a cage and then evaluate how she will be in a real house environment if stairs are a challenge for her. She just seems to be flumped on he side now which is not her normal resting position. 

We have 5 pills to give her, three at night and two in the morning. Again as someone mentioned above they are human tablets that we have to quarter or half. Last night it didn't go well. We managed to wrestle in the first tablet (she is as strong kicker!) but the second tablet did not go well. It started disolving because she kept tossing it out of her month. We got it to go down and then the foaming started. A lot of foam, massive puddle on the floor of foam. We were offering chicken, cat treats, water but she just sat there foaming and contorting her jaw. One the foam stopped we gave her a break - her poor heart was going so fast - before going in with the final tablet for the night which was also a battle of wills!

Chloe was still being hissy and stifflegged with a poofed up tail whenever she saw her sister so we seperated the cats for the night. The morning found a very very affectionate cat who just wanted to be cuddled. She actually looked a bit brighter - until she realised we were going to pill her again! This time we swaddled her tightly, the first pill went ok but the second was a nightmare until we tried syringing some water after the pill and it went down (though not sure if that was a fluke or not!)

She was very grumpy when we went to work! We have seperated the girls again today after watching them meet again this morning. Chloe is just hissing and actually seems to be frightened of Toshi as she keeps backing away from her and over reacting whenever Toshi so much as moves a paw.

I will read through the pilling suggestions given above today - some of the suggestions may help with the foam inducing tablet!

So yes the cat is alive but I am not 100% convinced she is comfortable and happy yet. Thankfully it is nearly christmas and we both have two weeks from work so we can actually get to observe her properly and then make some decisions. She is such a fighter I would feel so bad to just give up on her!


----------



## katrina89 (Jul 30, 2013)

Oo that's great that you can be home with her

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Mochas Mommy (Dec 9, 2013)

I am very sorry to hear about Toshi! I just went through this with my Mocha; unfortunately she was in extreme pain and I had to make that horrible decision. When a clot goes to the rear legs, it is horrible. I had no time to even hold her while the vet administered the final shot. Please watch your baby carefully and be prepared to make that decision...love her every day and take lots of pictures to remember her by when she is gone.


----------



## NOLAKitties (May 30, 2013)

So sorry to hear about Toshi. Hang in there and spend lots of quality time with her. She needs you...


----------



## gracie83 (Jul 31, 2007)

Just a quick updated. Things are going surprisingly well. Toshi seems to be less exhausted and is spending far less time lying on her side. She also has nearly full use of her paw back again! We received the gelatine pill cases in time for last nights pilling and it was all over in minutes - all three pills fitted into the case so just one pill to give and no foaming. It had taken us over 30 mins to pill her the other night! The water syringe idea was also brilliant. Hopefully this pilling situation will be ok! certainly we were happier with how it went!

The situation between the two cats seems to be slowly calming. Chloe is no longer hissing or puffing her fur or walking stiff legged around Toshi now. She will do a double take when she sees her sister but they can be left together. Chloe keeps creeping up to Toshi, tasting the smell of her (especially around her mouth) and then backing away again. This is mildly concerning because apparently you can smell organ failure on the breath which she may be smelling or it is just the medication she can smell. 

Anyway as soon as I got home from work on Friday it was like business as usual. Toshi jumped on the sofa and in her normal very pushy manner order me to sit down so she could warm herself on her human cushion. She slept on me for well over an hour and I was able to give her a good stroke. She has lost quite a bit of weight over the last few days and when she was fully stretched out I could feel her heart and it didn't half feel strange compared to how it used to!

Anyway we return to the vets on Monday for blood results for both the cats and to have more bloods taken. Then we have two weeks off work and I intend to spend as much time with the cats taking as many photos and videos as we can before we are out of time.


----------



## Marcia (Dec 26, 2010)

Such good news!! I'm so glad Toshi is mending and home is more like normal. Little blessings like this make us realize how stressful it was not so long ago!!


----------



## NebraskaCat (Jan 15, 2013)

That's really nice you have two weeks off work to spend time together. Enjoy it. Create some more very happy memories to have for the future.


----------



## gracie83 (Jul 31, 2007)

Well just a few hours under a week since the clot and I have to say I am so impressed with this cat. She is now back to jumping on to table tops and windowsills again. She is so different from the exhausted cat we had a few days ago. She is even taking her pills on nearly the first attempt every time now!

We took both girls to the vets this morning and the vet is impressed with her progress too. Even though he kept reminding us that she is a terminally ill animal and that the medicines are helping not curing her. (meany!) He was shocked when we moved on to Chloe's turn to be checked out as he could not believe how unlucky we were to have two seriously ill cats at the same time! Thankfully he decided not to take blood from Toshi (she was getting stressed at the vets) but Chloe had to give a load of blood for further testing and then we will probably have to admit her to the hospital for further investigation work. (sigh)

Still I have two snoring cats in a fluffy pile on the sofa next to me so they seem to be quite content!


----------



## Heather72754 (Nov 1, 2013)

That is such amazingly great news! Of course you know you have a very seriously ill kitty (two of them in fact), I'm sure the vet didn't have to remind you. But still - for her to have such a good quality of life right now while she is still with you is beyond awesome. :kittyturn


----------



## emilyatl (Sep 9, 2013)

That's awesome news. I'm glad she's feeling better and you'll get some quality time with her!


----------



## 0ozma (Sep 22, 2012)

That is great news!


----------



## Speechie (Dec 2, 2013)

So glad she had such a good recovery! Hope that you get loads of snuggle time!


----------



## Mitts & Tess (Sep 4, 2004)

Just a heads up. Cats know each other by scent. So when you take your cats to a vet and they come home and the other cat doesn't accept them it is because they smell different! They smell like the vets office. I put vanilla on their fur between the shoulder blade on all my cats when one of them has been taken to the vets.

Your vet should of shown you how to pill a cat! There are several ways to do it. Laurief had good suggestions as far as options to pills. I might add when I pill a cat I scruff them so they cant move their head and have the head lifted upward. Open your cats mouth and drop the pill to the back of the tongue and close its mouth. If they refuse to swallow I do downward strokes of it throat to make it swallow while holding the mouth shut. Then while still scruffed I have a syringe that has baby food ham or chicken in it and put it in the side of the mouth and squirt some in to clear its palate of the bitter taste of the pill.

If the medication is the type you can crush in a pill crusher, I sprinkle it in baby food ham or chicken and syringe that into its mouth. There are good video on Utube on how to pill a cat also!

I had a cat I adopted that I knew didn't have long to live. It had a stroke and threw a clot. It dragged it front foot with the paw pad upward. Is your vet giving meds to control the heart failure or what are the meds for? I wasn't clear when I read about it? 

My heart breaks for you. Im so glad you are there to watch over your kitties and be their advocate. Enjoy every moment you have with them. Cats are such great companions which teach us so much as we journey with them. Prayers for all of you.


----------



## gracie83 (Jul 31, 2007)

*Not sure is this is in the cats best interest anymore*

I am just wondering out loud as I am really starting to think that things are not going for the cats best interest. I am feeling like I am getting sucked into a world of medical tests, hospital appointments, medications and blood takings. The vet says do this, we get it done and try to ignore the increasingly anxious and unhappy cat in the middle of this situation. 

We took her first to the vets around 6 weeks ago because she was struggling to pee and was constantly trying to go but only a drop at a time. Soon she was dripping blood and the vet diagnosed stress cystitis and gave us antibiotics. He also felt a mass in her belly. We went back a few days later for a checkup and as the mass was still there we handed her over to the vets for investigations. We were returned a very shaved, very miserable cat the next day. Conclusions enlarged heart, kidney and liver, grade three heart murmur, stones in kidney and elevated calcium levels in her blood. We were sent home to keep on with the antibiotics (and boy did she hate the tablets!) We go for another checkup - more blood taken result still high calcium but the infection has gone (yipee!) the terms mass and growth are now being used. (not yipee) So we stop the tablets and after a few days (once she realised we were not going to pill her) she settled back down to her normal self. The vets called asked to take more blood two weeks ago but I was off work sick and then her sister had a heart attack and things got pushed back. Anyway the vets took more blood last week and they called back today saying the calcium has increased and they want her in for chest x-rays and to do biopsies of various lymph nodes. Now reading on the internet this sounds very much like the 'staging' part of cancer diagnosis - finding out how advanced the cancer is - but I really cannot see how this is going to help my cat. I have had a cat go through treatment for cancer before, she endured surgery which caused her so much pain only for the tumour to grow right back and she had to be put to sleep. I honestly don't know where I stand on cancer treatment for cats. 

Looking at her now she is fine curled up in a ball fast asleep. She eats, drinks, plays with her toys, steals my socks and if she has cancer she is doing a good job of not showing it! I just know that she will find it so stressful to be at the vets again, having a general anesthetic and then being cut for biopsies to be taken and I struggle to see the purpose as I am not sure about treating the cancer anyway. She is a very nervous and sensitive cat. She has always hated being messed around with - anything more than three strokes on her back is often considered too much fuss! She is very much a just leave me in peace type of cat - which I have to admit is wavering my decision.

I am feeling torn. Send her for diagnostic treatment or just let her live what time she has left without the stresses of medical intervention.

I have a few days to decide before the booked surgery appointment but I don't know what to do for *her*.


----------



## gracie83 (Jul 31, 2007)

Plus I forgot to mention this is not just a clear cut cancer case I also have to remember the enlarged organs and early warning signs for kidney failure when factoring in all of this!


----------



## Heather72754 (Nov 1, 2013)

I'm assuming this is the cat who had the heart attack and clot? 

I feel for you, this is a really, really difficult situation. I think you have to first get all the info you need from the vet. You are assuming they are staging for cancer but no one has told you she has cancer? And if she does, what type they think it might be and what her prognosis would be? I agree with you - I would not do chemotherapy. I have never had a cat with cancer myself thank God, but I have had friends who have and I have never seen chemo give a cat much quality time versus all that they have to go through. On the other hand, if they think this is a mass or growth that might be benign and that they could remove then that is a different story. 

It doesn't sound like you have enough information to make an informed decision.


----------



## Marcia (Dec 26, 2010)

If the upcoming appointment is just for the chest x-rays and biopsy I would do it. After that you could always decide how to proceed. I really, really understand your pain with all this. I think I would let them do the least invasive testing just to confirm it is what it is, then possibly let her go peacefully in the future. I KNOW this is sad and very difficult for you. Please keep us posted and (((hugs))) to you.


----------



## zuma (Nov 5, 2009)

I agree there isnt enough information available. I think I'd ask to speak with the vet and leave kitty at home. I'd also be worried to put her under for biopsies with the history of enlarged heart, murmur, kidney disease, might potentially be riskier than the benefits depending on what the vet suspects.

I hear where you're coming from. I think if she's happy right now I might be tempted to just leave her be and deal with it when it gets worse, but I don't think you can make that decision without talking to the vet about his suspicions and possible treatments. 


Sent from Petguide.com App


----------



## gracie83 (Jul 31, 2007)

Heather72754 said:


> I'm assuming this is the cat who had the heart attack and clot? .


Nope the heart attack cat is her sister Toshi! Toshi was previously referred to as the healthy cat when this cat's (Chloe) vets started talking about tumours. The vets cannot believe how unlucky we have been especially as they are not 7 year. This is inbreeding at its worst I think.


----------



## gracie83 (Jul 31, 2007)

Thank you for the replies, I agree that we need more information which is why I would be interested to get the results of the biopsies but as some said - general anesthetics and organ problems is not a good combination! They want to take biopsies from the lymph nodes so they are thinking about lymphoma which seems to be mostly treated with chemotherapy rather than surgery because it is normally body wide. I don't think I could put a cat through chemotherapy!



zuma said:


> I agree there isnt enough information available. I think I'd ask to speak with the vet and leave kitty at home.


I think my husband is planning on going to talk to the vets on Monday when they have opened again. You always get these test results over the phone from a rushed vet who just wants to get the call over with so they can return to the people waiting for appointments. 

No vet has explicitly said cancer but it is the main cause of raised calcium levels, it is the most likely and the vet did say it is very unlikely to be anything else. 

I have to say this has been the most emotionally draining Christmas of my life! It is just too depressing to be keeping 'quality of life diaries' for not one but two cats!


----------



## Marcia (Dec 26, 2010)

Aww, Gracie, between you and Speechie (Teddy in the ER), this is a sad Christmas isn't it?


----------



## Bill the Cat Guy (Dec 25, 2013)

I'm sorry for what your cat and you are going through. I don't know how to say this delicately enough but given all the serious problems your cat has it might be better if you just put the cat to sleep. I think in a lot of cases we're tempted to hold on to them too long despite all their suffering.


----------



## rural-cat (Dec 6, 2013)

_"No vet has explicitly said cancer but it is the main cause of raised calcium levels, it is the most likely and the vet did say it is very unlikely to be anything else."_

my snick has elevated calcium level, for about 8 or 10 months now. we have treated this with sub-q fluids (she gets these for her CKD anyway) and prednisone. snick's calcium level has gone down to still elevated but not as high as it had been. our vet initially told me that they felt it was cancer, probably lymphoma. fast forward to november (last month) and i had some questions for the vet which caused her to review snick's whole file/chart. the vet called me and told me that she doesn't feel snick has cancer, because the calcium level would have continued to raise -- progression of the cancer. snick's diagnosis is now idiopathic hypercalcemia -- in other words, they have no idea why the calcium level is elevated. what's i'm wanting to put forward is the thought that it might be something for your vet to consider, idiopathic hypercalcemia, with your cloe. idiopathic hypercalcemia is something that was very rare 10-20 years ago in cats, but is becoming much more common these days -- like CKD and diabetes in cats.

i can totally understand what you're saying about the stress vet visits, blood draws, testing, etc can have on cats. my snick gets stressed at our vets, sometimes very stressed. at the point where i feel snick's stress level becomes too high during vet appointments, i will almost certainly cut back on the vet appointments. we're only seeing the vet once every two months lately, and snick has been feeling increasingly stressed at these vet appointments. stress alone can cause illness in cats, and i can only imagine what stress can do to a cat who already has medical issues. at a certain point, the harmful effects of that stress may very well outweigh the benefits of more frequent vet appointments.


----------



## Speechie (Dec 2, 2013)

Giant hugs to you and your kitties! 
I have to share that I have been through chronic illness with my kitty Sydney years ago! and we did a lot of visits and blood draws, but she was really easy going and did not stress. 
Then we had a maine **** kitty that was incredibly stressed by any car ride or vets visit, and we decided to take a hospice, palliative care route for him. He just did not tolerate the same amount of care that Syd did. I think it is really a personal choice, and depends on your pet's temperament. 
I am so sorry you are facing these issues. It is so hard. For me, I try to balance out quality of life, and ask wether or not the medical treatment or biopsy/surgery is likely to change the eventual outcome for the sweet kitty. 
Holding your hand as you move forward.


----------



## Mochas Mommy (Dec 9, 2013)

I am so sorry to hear that your kitty is struggling so much. My Mocha also absolutely hated vet visits and car rides. I do question the vet's insistence on surgery for her wound when she knew Mocha had some kind of infection in her chest, possible enlarged heart, and a murmur of 3-4. She got worse after her surgery. But this is hindsight as I knew next to nothing about cat care before Mocha's illness. Having seen how difficult the last days were for Mocha, I would not put another cat through surgery if they are not totally healthy first. I would research every possible avenue I could....ensure the surgery was absolutely necessary to saving her life...and not just for a few painful weeks. Ask all the questions you have and then make the best decision for your kitty. Also keep in consideration her heart problems to begin with.


----------



## librarychick (May 25, 2008)

The level of care to give is always a tough decision. I haven't had to deal with anything at the level you're at yet, but my bf and I have a sort of criteria we look at.

1. Age of the cat. 
A young cat adjusts faster, recovers quicker, and has a longer life ahead of them so I would be willing to stretch what treatments to consider more. As an example, we're currently saving up for Muffin to have surgery for a lusting patella, the recovery period involves a minimum of 6 weeks kennel rest and therapy. If he was 15 we'd be spending $1,000 for a max of five years with poor chances of recovery and a heightened chance of serious complications. As it is he's 5 and otherwise completely healthy...we think it'll be worth it.

2. If its an information gathering procedure what are the possible outcomes and courses of action.
When Jitzu was recovering from her initial bout of herpes the vet wanted to put her under, xray her nasal cavity, and irrigate it. I was broke after her treatment and discussed possible resilts with the vet first. The xray would show if shed gotten permanent damage or not and the irrigation would flush her sinuses and keep her comfortable...for a while. If she did have damage we'd know anyways within a month and there was no way to repair it. The irrigation would only help for a week or so if she did have damage. $1,000 for something we'd know in a week anyway that wouldn't help in any case. Nope.
what action could you take with the info and could you/would you take it?

3. Cost.
I hate that this is a factor...but it is. If I went and paid for Muffins surgery now could we make our mortgage payments? Could I afford to feed him and the other cats? Could I afford snu follow up or emergency care? Could I buy food for myself and my bf? Unfortunately this is something we need to consider.

4. Quality of life/recovery chances.
If you have a really old cat that has a high chance of reacting poorly to anesthetic, if the surgery is risky snd highly invasive, and if you're going to only get another 6 months with a cat that's in pain and feeling awful...I don't know if it would be worth it to me...but I also haven't been there and it depends on a million factors.

No matter what we'll keep you and your kitty in our thoughts. *hugs*


----------



## gracie83 (Jul 31, 2007)

Thanks again for the replies. Rural-cat that was interesting to read. I think the vets are pushing for us to have the biopsies as a last ditch attempt to rule or confirm the cancer. It is good to hear there may be alternatives. 

My husband spend quite a lot of time talking to the vets today the upshot is they are nearly 100% it is lymphoma but they want to be sure and use the x-rays to compare any further enlargement/changes to her organs (ie is the cancer in those organs). Our big fear now is pet insurance. Our cats have been indoor cats from the first day we got them. Apart the original kitten injections and the occasional set of booster injections before we put them into a cattery we did not feel the need to inject the cats once a year as they never interacted with any other cats. (this fear came from my parents cat who was given a booster to her shoulder and within a few weeks started to grow a cancerous tumour at the injection site which eventually killed her - coincidence maybe but there were discussions about this on this forum at the time) Anyway there is a possibility that some types of lymphoma may be prevented by boosters for feline leukemia and feline aids - which means the insurance will not pay out. So we are delaying decisions about progressing with the biopsies until we get the results back to confirm she is negative for the two viruses -at least then the insurance company cannot argue. At the moment we are in around £2000 on Chloe alone so finances are a big issue if insurance will not pay. (Yes we have learnt our lesson the next cats will be yearly jabbed whether they get scared going to the vets or not!)

Reading more about lymphoma it is interesting how it effects young to middle aged cats (Chloe is 6 1/2) but sadly even with chemotherapy the outlook is only 4 - 6 months. Without treatment the best we can hope for seems to be 4 - 8 weeks before one of her organs starts to fail. I think she knows something is going on though. Maybe she is reacting to our depressed emotional states (she has certainly come over when I had a good cry) but little miss 'I am very aloof and you may stroke me only once' has become little miss 'purr purr, cuddles more cuddles please' - which while it is very cute (she nearly sat on my lap earlier today) it is not her personality at all. This is frighteningly similar to my parents other cat who was very aloof normally suddenly became very affectionate before he dropped dead two days later. Cats are such strange little creatures! 

Still we have a week left of the holiday and no more vets until next monday so time now to forget about all of this and just spend time cuddling with both cats on the sofa.


----------



## Heather72754 (Nov 1, 2013)

Yes, good idea, give them all the cuddles they can handle. :grin:

I know what you mean about the personality changes freaking you out. My oldest cat Penny has NEVER been a lap cat, not even close. She has never sat in my lap once in 7 years - cruised past yes, but not actually on it. She hadn't been acting quite herself for a couple of days and then one night jumped up onto my lap and actually fell asleep there. 8-O That was one of the deciding factors to take her to the vet and she ended up being diagnosed with pancreatitis.


----------



## gracie83 (Jul 31, 2007)

Thank you for the replies. Another week has passed but things are not as bright as they had been the other week. I have been trying to get some photos of the cats but there are only so many photos of sleeping cats you can take. I have been watching over her for the majority of last week with a camera ready for anything but she is just sleeping. Whenever someone comes to the front door, she is always the first cat up at the window having a look at the 'intruder'. This week she did not even attempt to jump up onto the window sill. The postman had gone before she had worked out a less energetic route to the window. Other than that she is sleeping and sometimes it feels like we are just waking her up to take tablets. 

She is on 4 tablets - Plavix which reduces the risk of blood clots, Vetmedin which (ironically if you have read Chloes story!) increases calcium in the blood which somehow makes the heart contract harder, Frusemide which is a diuretic which is reducing the fluid around her chest area (and man are we getting though litter material) and Fortekor which dilates blood vessels to help blood flow easily. 

She is taking them all well now apart from the Fortekor which seems to make her nauseous for hours after taking it. I have cleaned up so much cat vomit and bile over the last few days. 

We thought we were getting to the end the other day. She does nothing but sleep, half heartedly eat, be force fed tablets and then go back to sleep again. I am using a quality of life check list and she kept scoring a 50/50 mark so we are giving her more time. It is crazy that we are using our other cat with cancer as a base for how a 'healthy cat' behaves! Anyway out of curiosity we decided to turn down the central heating and cooled down the house a bit to see if we could make it a bit less warm and cozy (the heat was making us feel drowsy!) It was very interesting - like watching hibernation go backwards, both cats started to wake up, wandered around the house, gave each other a nose kiss and Chloe started playing with her mouse while Toshi crouched intently watching her play. We gave a them a chunk of the mince meat we were using to cook our spagbol and I have not seen such excitement since the cats got ill! Toshi managed to not only eat a good chunk of the meat - she did not throw it up and at one point was running up and down the room doing one of her 'Toshi freak out and run around and jump on things like a kitten' specials. We have not seen her do that since the heart attack. Sadly she was back to sleep within 10 mins but hey she proved is still very much alive and has earned herself some reprieve from the vets final needle.

It is tough though, like Chloe we are just waiting for it to happen. What will happen first? Will she have another FATE (Feline Aortic Thromboembolism ie blood clot) which we will not get so luck with again or will her heart just fail one day. (also has anything ever been so well named as FATE!?) It will be interesting to see how she is when we are back to the normal routine of being at work. Normally they sleep all day and then wake up when we get home but I cannot really see that happening anymore. I am worried about her taking ill when we are at work. A FATE episode is agonising for the cat and collapsing with heart failure is not supposed to be a gentle death either. Think I will need to get my parents to pop in and check them. The topic of when to do the deed is a very frequently discussed one in my household at the moment! I just wish the cat would stop giving us sparks of hope like she did last night! I really don't want to wait for either of the cats to collapse first but at the same time I do not want to take them to the vets too early while they are still fighting. On average she should have another two months left so it still does feel a bit too early. 

Oh well another week of holiday to go, time to forget that both cats are on their last legs and just let them snuggle in peace.


----------



## Arianwen (Jun 3, 2012)

When Oz was diagnosed with cancer, the vet recommended against chemotherapy on the grounds that it rarely had any long term benefits and cats tended to react even worse to it than dogs. It was a tough decision but we followed his advice and didn't do it. With the help of steroid injections we had several good months with him (every day was precious). It was a hard decision but I think it was probably the right one for us all in all but there isn't one right answer - such a horrible problem is not that siple.


----------



## Stryker (Apr 2, 2007)

Arianwen said:


> When Oz was diagnosed with cancer, the vet recommended against chemotherapy on the grounds that...cats tended to react even worse to it than dogs...


I have no information on the comparison between dogs' ad cats' reactions.

I have no idea "how dogs react".

However, from every account I have read to date, cats manage chemo treatment very well...and, exceedingly well compared to humans.

The best first-hand information about chemotherapy for feline lymphoma would certainly come from people currently managing this disease in their cats.....Over 3000 of them have joined this exclusive group: Discussion of Feline Lymphoma

That group also has this website: Feline Lymphoma Caregivers | Home


----------



## Speechie (Dec 2, 2013)

Giant hugs, sorry that things don't seem to going as well this week. I hope your kitties stay comfortable for a bit longer.


----------



## Cat Lover Lennie (Jan 7, 2013)

God bless you and your kitties. I don't think I could stand to watch Toshi decline. Guess I'm not as brave as you are. I would be the one vomiting from nerves. For the 10 minutes a week you get when the old Toshi shows up.....I just couldn't live with that anxiety of waiting for the last crash. Like someone already mentioned.....quality vs quantity of life.
I should be talking....my Katy-Did was diagnosed with an enlarged heart in August. It was an incidental finding when they xrayed her for something else. My vet told me that she could suddenly go into congestive heart failure and die. The difference between Toshi and Katy is that she has literally gotten "younger" in the 18 mo since I got the kittens. She plays and chases and mothers the babies. It's like they gave her a new lease on life. I took her back last week for a repeat of her chest xray. About 30 min after my vet took her.....he returned her snarling and screaming at the indignity of the whole process. My vet was fit to be tied. He could only get a side view....not the chest view he needed. The decision was to just leave her alone since she has no sign or symptom of illness....and he didn't want to gas her for the xray. I love my girl like you love Toshi......and I know that when she finally does go into failure and is on borrowed time....and her quality of life was not good.....I would have to have the talk with her as NBrazil suggested.....and let her fly free. The thought of finding her dead under a bed...... Having the chance to make sure that her last hours were in my arms, that is what I would have to do.
I'm so sorry for you and your girls and you are in our prayers. :sad2


----------



## gracie83 (Jul 31, 2007)

Thanks again for the replies. 

Just doing a quick update. Had the three weeks post FATE episode vet check up and the vet is beyond surprised by her as her chest is clear and her heart doesn't sound any worse and she has not lost any more weight. We are now on monthly checkups for as long as her heart keeps going. Apparently they would have expected her to be struggling by now but the tablets seem to be helping her so much. 

She is nearly back to her old self now - just a far slower version. The fact she is quite literally eating most of the tablets now means I am a very proud cat owner!

Her only challenge now is to keep going for as long as she can.


----------



## gracie83 (Jul 31, 2007)

Thanks for the links to the lymphoma group - makes very sad reading but it is useful to know what really 'happens' as a cat dies from cancer. 

Well we have been back to the vets with little Chloe and while she has put on some weight, her heart murmur sounds far worse so they want to take her into the hospital so they can have a look at her heart and probably get her on the same heart tablets her sister is on (oh joy - Chloe does not take tablets well!) While they are checking out her heart they also want to do the biopsies and x-rays to stage her cancer. Basically they have us trapped in this decision. We need her to be examined so we can give her heart meds (and I have seen from Toshi the good they can do) so we may as well let them proceed while she is under anesthetic anyway. 

On the plus side her blood test have shown that she is negative for feline aids and feline leukemia virus. This is a massive weight off our minds. As she was not immunized we could see the insurance blaming these viruses for her lymphoma but as she is negative they cannot use that as an excuse not to pay for her. (considering we will be around £2000 after the hospital examinations just for her (Toshi is another £1000 odd) the insurance paying out is a major consideration)

So yes the whole point of this thread has been resolved more or less without us getting to make a decision because of the worsening of her heart issues. She will be tested for her cancer next week and we will see where things go from here. I will however be judging everything else on how she is behaving. Which is tough considering she is acting like a normal healthy cat with the added bonus that she just wants to be cuddled now!


----------



## howsefrau32 (Mar 6, 2013)

I can't even imagine what I would do in your situation, but it sounds like you are doing what works for you all right now. I think that I would have a hard time bringing my cat in, even knowing they could go at any time, just to avoid that happening. At the same time, it would be hard knowing it could happen. I believe that you will know when it's time. I had to make this decision with my 13 year old springer spaniel, who was in congestive heart failure and most likely had cancer as well, we just stopped spending money doing tests because we knew there were many, many issues, but the cancer thing was most likely there too. He was so arthritic he could barely walk, but with help of tramadol and glucosamine and rimadyl, he was able to get around at the end. But the CHF was the worst thing, and near the end he started struggling to breathe, and that was it for me. But we did not get to that point overnight, in fact, he went on for months where we managed his condition, probably close to a year, until things progressed to the point where I knew it was time. And I think you will know also when you get to that time. I just knew. The thing was, my husband didn't and wanted to keep him around longer, and I just got to the point where I was like, enough! And he was my dog, and I took him in. I was very much at peace with my decision, which surprised me, because I just kept thinking, how will I know? But I did know when the time was right, and you will too. It's such a hard thing, but we stick with them until the end, and do the best we can do for them, and then make those difficult decisions. Enjoy the days you have with her. No one ever knows how long we actually have. My aunt, who is 62, was supposed to die "at any time" more than 10 years ago, from CHF, and they said she really needed a transplant, but she is a heavy smoker, so won't even be considered, and she is still kicking, and doing quite fine. You just never know.


----------



## gracie83 (Jul 31, 2007)

For anyone who is interested I just thought I would give a quick update. It has now been 10 months and Toshi had another heart scan the other day. We had been really concerned about this scan because of the possibility of needing a general but the doctor promised he would not give her a general as she is far too ill. She very obligingly just lay there as they did the scans. While she is still terminally ill the cardiologist was very impressed. The heart muscle was 18mm and is now 16mm, the right ventricle has gone from not working at all to working badly, two of the heart valves are leaking but not as badly as before and 'contractability' of the heart muscle itself has increased from a 'should be dead' 8% to 28%. The vet says she could still just drop dead tomorrow but with the progress she has made another couple of years could be possible.

She has a problem with a bad tooth though. The cardiologist did not want to risk putting her under an anaesthetic to remove the tooth so we have to wait for the bad tooth to cause a life threatening abscess or infection before taking her in to have it removed. He says the predicted mortality rate from a general is 25% as she is so ill so it is best to wait until we really have to have it done!

All in all she is doing brilliantly. She takes her morning and evening tablets with no complaint and she even asks for them now if it gets too late in the evening and we have not tableted her yet. 

She runs around the house like a kitten and honestly you wouldn't know she was ill if it wasn't for the tablets. She is a good weight and she looks so healthy! For a cat we did not expect to live for longer than two months at the best I am so happy for her. She had her 7th birthday a couple of weeks ago.

We are concerned about the fireworks causing anxiety this year so we are trying out one of those feliway diffusers to see if that helps keep everything mellow and calm.

Just posting to try to give some hope to cat owners who were in the same position we were 10 months ago. If you cat wants to keep fighting keep popping those tablets!


----------



## Heather72754 (Nov 1, 2013)

Wow, thanks so much for the update, what wonderful news! Toshi sounds like a miracle girl, how heartwarming. :kittyturn Can we have a picture of her now?


----------



## gracie83 (Jul 31, 2007)

While I am updating on Toshi I thought I would update on her sister Chloe too 10 months on. It turns out that after so many vets visits and over £4000 of pet insurance pay outs - Chloe did not have cancer after all! She just has elevated calcium levels. End of story. So it was good news on the cancer front. 

On the worse news she did indeed had the same heart illness her Toshi has but her heart muscle was 2mm too thin to be eligable for treatments. We are due to take her back to the vets in January 2015 for another heart scan to see if she needs to start taking heart medication like her sister. (I really don't want her to have an unnecessary heart attack or blood clot we got 'lucky' with Toshi's blood clot not paralysing her I cannot see us being that lucky again)

Chloe has slightly enlarged kidneys and liver and has stones in her kidneys because of the calcium in her system. But no treatment is needed and she seems to be living life very happily - especially as we no longer take her to the vets every week! The only problem seems to be with her is the volume of urine she produces (and it smells bad!). Where litter trays could be scooped of the clumps and then reused -there are no clumps just a wet litter tray. It is costing a fortune in extra litter clay! The vet said it is not a problem we should only get worried if the urine production reduces as it means her kidneys are playing up. So we just keep cleaning up after her trying not to smell the trays as they are seriously toxic!

Chloes problems started with cystitis caused by either a kidney stone passing or the stress of bonfire night last year so we are hoping feliway will work for her this year to try to keep her calm. We have never used this before but we are starting it this weekend so fingers crossed it will calm her. 

She has not passed any more kidney stones (that we have noticed anyway) so all seems to be well there. 

I currently have my two balls of fur cuddled together up fast asleep on the sofa. I just hope they get to continue enjoying each others company for another couple of years.


----------



## gracie83 (Jul 31, 2007)

Ok I have not uploaded images in a long time so I doubt this will work! My hubby does not seem to have moved the latest photos on to the PC so I have grabbed a few that I could find. 

The most recent one I can find is her looking all miserable at the vets!









Another recent one is her and her sister making life difficult for me to put the duvet cover on the bed









Older photos of Toshi looking cuter -
















and







(and a cute one of Chloe)


----------



## gracie83 (Jul 31, 2007)

Ok I have not uploaded images in a long time so I doubt this will work! My hubby does not seem to have moved the latest photos on to the PC so I have grabbed a few that I could find. 

The most recent one I can find is her looking all miserable at the vets!









Another recent one is her and her sister making life difficult for me to put the duvet cover on the bed









Older photos of Toshi looking cuter -
















and







(and a cute one of Chloe)









(fingers crossed it works this time!)


----------



## gracie83 (Jul 31, 2007)

I should not be allowed on a PC as I seem to have merged the posts about Chloe together with and Toshi's posts somehow! Oh well at least the photos are visible! I think I should just go to bed! Even the cats are telling me to get off the sofa so they can stretch out!


----------



## cat owner again (Dec 14, 2012)

They have each other and you. Very lucky cats.


----------



## spirite (Jul 31, 2012)

I just read through this thread for the first time. What an emotional rollercoaster it must have been for the past 10 months - and I guess it still is. But it's wonderful that both of your girls are enjoying life right now - and that Chloe does not have cancer. 

The girls are adorable - I love the markings on their faces! I'm sending lots of good thoughts and warm wishes!


----------

