# Another Introducing Cats Thread



## timelyexit (Mar 18, 2014)

Fenchurch, female, 10 months old, came home with me on the 4th March. She had been spayed four days earlier by the shelter and had already recovered, was as bouncy and bright and affectionate as anybody could possibly hope for. She had been a teenage mum to a litter of two kittens, who had been found homes by the shelter a few weeks before I met her. Fenchurch is cuddly and floppy and inquisitive, and incredibly confident. There was no hiding behind sofas or cowering under tables, she was happy to clamber over and sniff everything and then return to my lap for a cuddle.

At home was my resident cat, Sansa. Sansa is five or six years old (we think), spayed, and was a stray before I took her in nearly four years ago. She was also very confident, refused to stay alone in her designated room when she arrived and immediately claimed my bed as hers. She is not too keen on cuddles (it took me a year to get her to begrudgingly accept being picked up and held for any length of time), but enjoys curling up next to people and chatting, and generally enjoys company.

Fenchurch has been given the living room of our house, as the door actually shuts properly. She has all her stuff in there, and a wire dog crate that I intended to use as a way to introduce the two of them. Sansa has the rest of the house. I swap them around every few days, giving Sansa the living room for the night and letting Fenchurch have the run of the house, then swap them back in the morning. Sansa has stopped stalking the house hissing at everywhere Fen has been sitting after a swap, so that's... Something.

Sansa has always been a bit of a bully to other cats. She is an indoor/outdoor cat, and when encountering other cats in the neighbourhood she always stands her ground, screams like a banshee and then chases them off. She's fairly small but can puff herself up and go toe to toe with the enormous black and white git that thinks he owns our street. Fen's relationship with other cats was fairly unknown - she was a good mum to her kittens apparently, but by the time they were separated from her she was pretty sick of them.


Two and a half weeks into Fen's introduction, and they are not pleased with each other. When Fen is behind bars, she is very laid back about the situation, and will only respond to Sansa's grumbles and hisses, never starts it. I've fed them like this a couple of times, with Fen in the cage and Sansa nearby in the same room, and they've mostly been ok with it. They have been loose in the same room three times now. The first time, they just settled down for a nap on opposite sides and ignored each other. The second time, Fen took off and went for Sansa, who refused to stand her ground and darted behind the sofa, and wouldn't come out for half an hour.

The third time was just now, when Fen made a bid for freedom when I was leaving the room, and they came face to face in the dining room, yelled at each other, and then Fen chased Sansa around the bottom floor taking swipes at her until Sansa managed to dodge her and shot upstairs, mostly because Fen knocked the kitchen mop over onto both of them. I've reconfined Fenchurch, and just coaxed Sansa out from under some drawers and she is happily trying to stand on my keyboard, purring and chatting. They don't appear to have done any damage to each other.

I have tried Feliway, which seems to have no effect whatsoever on either of them (I know from experience with Sansa) - I had the diffusers on for a week and a bit before Fenchurch arrived and gave up on them two days ago when it became apparent that Fenchurch really did not care. I've also tried some calming drops (liquid), which neither of them would touch, and some calming "salmon flavoured" gel stuff which they will both only eat if I smother treats with it. No idea if that one works yet.

I've only done one cat introduction before (over ten years ago) and it was a very different situation with a laid-back old resident cat and a charming stray that decided he wanted to move in, so I've been researching strategies and products to make it easier on the internet.

My main problem is I don't really know if I should be eventually allowing them to have these punchups. Fenchurch skips the usual cat posturing and yowling, preferring to get straight to the chase-and-swipe bit. Neither of them get all puffed up when this happens - usually if Sansa is fighting all her fur will stand on end and make her look like a tiny, fat bear, but she doesn't do this when Fen goes for her, she just tries to leave. I also don't understand why Sansa is not standing up for herself.

I'm fully expecting it to take at least a month, probably a lot longer, until they settle into just tolerating each other, but if anybody has any insights or tips I'd be very grateful. I'm going to continue with the shared breakfast times for now as they both seemed fine with it and just see how that goes, but meh.


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## Heather72754 (Nov 1, 2013)

Their interactions don't sound really vicious, but the thing that would make me say that it isn't okay is that Sansa is running and hiding and needs to be coaxed out. Usually when one cat is hiding and intimidated, that is not a good situation. Do you have cat trees and/or shelves where Sansa can get up high to gain some confidence? I know you say she is usually confident, but in this situation it seems for some reason she is intimidated. Sometimes extra territory in the form of height will help cats iron out their issues.


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## timelyexit (Mar 18, 2014)

I've not got any cat-specific high furniture (tallest cat tree is maybe 3ft tall?), but there's plenty of tall human-furniture for them both to climb on if they want (and they often do), bookshelves and cupboards and such.

Apparently Fenchurch was going into heat again when she was taken to get spayed, I'm wondering if it's some sort of residual hormone thing? Her nipples have only just calmed down really.


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## timelyexit (Mar 18, 2014)

Two more shared breakfasts under their belts... Things haven't exactly changed, but they don't seem to be getting any worse after their little kerfuffle the other day. I'm noticing less hissing from Sansa, just the grumpy mews and grumbling. Though she didn't bat an eyelid when Fenchurch decided to take a dump halfway through breakfast, and actually watched intrigued as Fen buried it very thoroughly.

I do have to physically chuck Sansa in the room with the food, but once she's in there and has realised there's food on offer she's in no special hurry to leave.

Fen is still mostly unfazed by this whole situation. She'll mew back at Sansa once in a while but that's about it. She's also finally realised that wet food is amazing and will eat most of a whole pouch of it at breakfast and lay off the biscuits slightly.

I guess I'll just keep this up for another week or two and then reassess.


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## timelyexit (Mar 18, 2014)

So, it's been a while and I'm not sure about their progress.

I went away for a week (unavoidable) and left my partner in charge of organising shared feeding times as I didn't want them to have a week of not seeing each other at mealtimes. Apparently Sansa was pretty unhappy with him picking her up to put her in the feeding room - but she's not exactly keen on him picking her up anyway. She usually just wriggles but she was a bit grumbly with him 

He's been moving Sansa's bowl closer to Fen in the dog crate over the last week, and we've got them to about 1ft apart. Any closer and Sansa just stands there grumbling and won't eat. Fen is still not really bothered and will just chow down no matter the distance between them.

On my return yesterday I set the bowls up as close as they've been comfortable with and let Sansa choose to come into the room herself if she wanted to eat, and after peering cautiously round the door she actually came in by herself without needing coaxing or being picked up - I think this is progress!

It's been a month and a half, give or take a few days. I set myself a deadline of two months from Fen's arrival, at which point I was going to sit and see how far they'd come with each and assess whether we wanted to keep trying. I hope they can make some more progress within the next two weeks, but as it stands I think I'm happy enough with how they're doing.

Have got some nail caps for Fenchurch finally, so if I do try and let them loose together again at least she won't be able to do Sansa any serious scratch damage. Assuming I can get them on her, which is a whole other issue really. Would love to get a set on Sansa too but she hates people touching her feet, but I figure as Fenchurch is the instigator and Sansa is the one that runs away and won't engage it might be better than nothing.

Here's hoping, anyway.


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## timelyexit (Mar 18, 2014)

I think we've reached the limit of what progress can be made with the dog crate setup. As of next week they'll both be allowed to roam free throughout the house as long as there is someone home to supervise, and still be separated at night.

Fingers crossed!


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## BrittyBear (Feb 4, 2014)

Good luck!!! I hope all goes well! Let us know what happens 

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## TabbCatt (Mar 26, 2014)

Hi timelyexit
It seems a some weeks has gone by and I've only read this post recently since it's been bumped up. I wanted to add some suggestions too, if you hadn't already thought of.

I know you mentioned there are high bookshelves and cupboards, but is it arranged in a "pathway" that Sansa can roam freely without ever touching the ground to avoid Fenchurch if she needs to? It would be ideal if it surrounded the perimeter of a large living room, for example, by using windowsills, floating shelves, entertainment center, bookcases, etc. I kind of agree with Heather, with two cats, having another tall cat tree wouldn't hurt. It would provide two cats to be up high if they wanted to, and I think the carpeting material on the cat trees are more enticing to cats to nap on?

Another thing that may boost Sansa's confidence level is hard-interactive play, so something equivalent to the U.S. version of "da bird", or feather teaser wand toy that she would go nuts over, for as long as she can tolerate, then feeding her fave meal or snack will perhaps get her out of hiding. You may need to play with both of them seperately, but interactive play with Fenchurch would also exhaust some of her energy so she wouldn't be targeting Sansa so much.

If you're already doing these things, that's great, just keep it up. I know cats take a while to get used to each other, so being patient (or more stubborn than your cats) will be the key. Hang in there, and let us know of any progress or setbacks!


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## timelyexit (Mar 18, 2014)

Tabbcat:

They've both got a flying frenzy feathers-on-a-string thing. Sansa is medium interested in hers, can get around half an hour of play before she gets bored. Fenchurch can literally go for hours trying to kill the thing. Tried to tire her out with it once and I got tired way before she did - two hours and she was still bright and bouncy as ever.

They're not loose together yet, though last time I fed them, Sansa started sticking her paws into the crate between the bars to steal Fen's leftovers, while Fen just sat there watching, so that was pretty encouraging.

Fen did manage to slip out of the living room the other day and they ran around the dining room before settling down 2ft away from each other and growling at each other non-committally. I've taken Fen on the harness to go say hi to Sansa when she's been chilled out a few times, and they've been fairly content to just sit and look at each other and not engage.


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## BrittyBear (Feb 4, 2014)

That sounds like good progress!!!  i hope all continues to go well ^_^

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## TabbCatt (Mar 26, 2014)

Yes, I think things are improving, so keep up with all the positive associations with food, treats, and toys when they are in close proximities to each other, and continue to supervise! It seems all your hard work is beginning to pay off!:smile:


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## timelyexit (Mar 18, 2014)

Hello again! Thought I'd post a 2 month-ish? update.


The girls are now loose in the house with each other most of the time. Sansa has suddenly (as in, within the last week) started sticking up for herself when Fenchurch gets in her personal space. I don't know if this is good for their relationship, but it makes me happy to see it as I was a little worried Sansa's spirit had been broken.

Their altercations happen a couple of times a day and mostly involve running around the house screaming at each other, and last about ten seconds before one or both of them loses interest. They swipe at each other a bit but don't make contact, it's mostly shadowboxing, generally with claws retracted.

The rest of the time they are content to potter about and even hang out in the same room, though this often involves some grumbling and growling when one enters a room the other is in, but aside from vocally protesting neither of them can be bothered to do anything about it.

The problem with Fenchurch hunting Sansa has stopped completely, after an unplanned sequence of events left Sansa wearing a collar without a bell on it. Turns out Fenchurch associated the bell noise with PLAYTIME. So that's good. Fen still wears a bell because she is oblivious to the dangers of feet and we need to be able to hear if she's around, otherwise she'll get trodden on.

Morning feeding time still happens with Fenchurch behind bars so they can eat together without arguing, but it's not working so well any more now it's summer time - Sansa sees the slightest hint of sun and all she wants to do is go outside after eating a couple of mouthfuls of breakfast (and then won't come in unless physically caught and dragged back in the house because there are BIRDS and BUTTERFLIES and FROGS). I was worried it was Fenchurch being here that was making Sansa want to stay outside all the time and then I remembered that this happens every year.

Fen goes outside now too and is thoroughly enjoying climbing trees and running through grass and arguing with the dog down the road. She also actually comes back in when called (unlike Sansa).

A few nights ago they managed to both sleep on me at the same time with a minimal amount of grumbling before they settled down.


All in all, I think it's going pretty well. Not best friends yet (and may well never be), but have shown themselves to be capable of peacefully coexisting, and it'll only get better as Fen gets older and gets out of the kitten phase. They're both happy and healthy, Sansa is as sociable as she ever was and Fenchurch is bouncy and friendly.


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## Jenny bf (Jul 13, 2013)

Great to hear how it's going and it seems to be on the right track. As with almost everything involving cats, you never can tell how things will go and working out their hierarchy in their home is no different. It took our first cat Lulu a long time to get back to her original personality and routines after Kiki arrived. While they are not cuddle up and sleep cats, they play a lot, sometimes it looks really quite rough but if I intervene they look at me like I spoiled their game and then off they go again. Food was for us the way to get them close together and even now it's when they get closest, checking each other's bowls to ensure they got the same thing!


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## timelyexit (Mar 18, 2014)

Jenny - out of interest, how long was a long time for Lulu?


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## Jenny bf (Jul 13, 2013)

It has taken Lulu about 3 months plus to get her back to her old self. She will play chase with Kiki so no growls or hissing but they each take turns being the chaser. They head butt and nose kiss at feed times but Lulu will not allow Kiki to snuggle up to her at snooze or bed time much to Kiki's disappointment. But they both sleep on the bed some nights now, Kiki at top lulu at the bottom.


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## Catmamma (Apr 18, 2011)

They may never be snuggle buddies but it sounds as if they are ok together and not actively hating each other. Good job.


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## BrittyBear (Feb 4, 2014)

I'm glad they are at least getting along now ^_^ sometimes thats all you can hope for, is tolerance xD

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## timelyexit (Mar 18, 2014)

Some days there's more tolerance than others... This morning they (well, Sansa) woke me up with prolonged indignant yelling and screeching as Fenchurch kept running towards her and then away again repeatedly.

Sansa not coming back inside once she's out is starting to get really, really annoying. She's wised up to all my methods of getting her close enough to grab and put back inside and now doesn't trust me with anything if I'm standing by the back door, darting out of reach if I try and approach her outside, and if Fenchurch is around I've got no chance. She's still fine with me inside, sleeps on my chest at night and seeks me out for company. Trying to keep her indoors as much as I can, but this isn't a long-term solution.

Daft animals.


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## BrittyBear (Feb 4, 2014)

Shadow did that for awhile, when Ashes first got here. He would go outside all day, come in to eat and right back out he went. It was horrible trying to get him in at night. Have you tried the treats when near each other method? Lots of people say that work. And when you see Fen bothering Sansa, get her attention away from her and then pull out a toy as a distraction? I hope they do better soon! Shadow and Ashes are just starting to get along well, where i dont have to stop a fight every week or even day. It took quite awhile. As for Sansa not coming in... is she treat motivated? Whenever my cats are stubborn and wont come in i shake the treat jar/bag in the doorway while i call their names out. Shadow and Mystery come flying in. Then they each get one for coming inside. It dont work as well for Ashes... sometimes he will come and sometimes he just dont care about treats. So it all depends on her

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## timelyexit (Mar 18, 2014)

Sansa isn't particularly treat motivated, and she's now figured out that when I stand in the back doorway and shake some treats it means I want her back inside... So she runs away. And Fenchurch, being a greedy little so-and-so, comes charging into a room at even the hint of food happening, so it just makes her appear and start getting interested, which means Sansa is even less likely to want to come indoors.

They're still not doing each other any harm or making any contact at all really, but the growling and shouting when one enters a room that the other is in is still ongoing, and Fenchurch does still enjoy chasing Sansa, though I get the impression it's lessening as Fen comes to the realisation that all that happens is Sansa gets annoyed and screams at her. They do sleep in the same room without any protest now, though Fenchurch has realised that my bed belongs to Sansa and doesn't usually try and join us at night, she's found a spot on top of the wardrobe she likes.

It's still really tiresome at times and I sometimes wonder if I've done the right thing by taking Fen in - especially on those days where Sansa is really angry and sulking with me and Fenchurch has decided that she wants to play the I BITE YOU NOW game every time I try and interact with her, and then sulks when I don't approve. The screeching and grumbling every few hours makes me a little bit sad and longing for just one day where the cats didn't make a noise like they were being tortured. Just one day of peace and quiet...

But their stupid cute little faces and purry noises make up for it.


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## Jenny bf (Jul 13, 2013)

It's tough especially when it's noise and one cat is not behaving her normal way. They will settle down and it will become more and more better than bad days. All of a sudden you will realise there was a day with no catterwalling. You've come such a long way and have done such a good job. Hang on in there


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## timelyexit (Mar 18, 2014)

Wow, they both dozed off on the bed with me last night without so much as a whisper. Fenchurch evidently got bored at some point as she was in her usual spot on the wardrobe when I woke up.

The feeding thing is going better again. Sansa has decided she doesn't like the lovely high quality cat food I started giving them both (it has identifiable bits of meat in it and everything!). I figure she's like a little kid that's been presented with a gourmet dinner after only eating mcdonalds her whole life. I found some whiskas pouches of foul brown goo in the back of a cupboard and suddenly her appetite is back. It's very odd for her - I've never known her to turn her nose up at any food, usually she'll happily eat whatever happened to be on offer in the supermarket that week. Anyway, the mysterious brown goo being back on the menu appears to have improved her mood substantially. I'm still keeping her indoors for the time being as my knee injury has still not healed and running around the garden trying to catch her is doing it no favours.

I've started leaving the cage door open when I feed them both so they could get to each other if they felt so inclined, and so far they've not bothered, even when one finishes eating before the other. They don't argue over the random bowls of biscuits I leave around the place and haven't ever stopped each other from using the litter boxes, so aside from the yelling, I think we're good?

Next step will be to remove the feeding-cage altogether, maybe in a week or two. And see if Sansa and I can reach a compromise on food.


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## Jenny bf (Jul 13, 2013)

That all sounds really great, definitely baby steps in the right direction. Have you tried feeding them without the cage since earlier in the intros? Maybe if a couple more feeds go well? Fen may have just got hot. Kiki is on the bed 90% of the night but Lulu always was a come and go kind of cat. She starts then goes comes back goes and is there in the morning


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## timelyexit (Mar 18, 2014)

Ugh. Not exactly related, but I just pulled a flea off Sansa's face. Have attacked them both with frontline and doused my house in lavender oil, considering keeping them both indoors until I can tidy up the overgrown mess that is my garden.

Last time Sansa brought fleas home it took months to get rid of the little gits. I still have the scars on my legs from where they feasted on me.


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## Jenny bf (Jul 13, 2013)

Oh no! Darn cats, if it's not one thing it's something else. Good luck and hope the treatment was before the critters have jumped into your home


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## timelyexit (Mar 18, 2014)

They've mostly stopped the yelling now, it's just the grumbling and hissing occasionally.

One of them, however, is now pooing three centimetres away from the litterbox. I am assuming it's Sansa as this is usually her trick for registering her displeasure at something, and if so it's probably because I'm not letting her outside at the moment because she is a flea magnet.

Aside from the protest poo, I think it's getting steadily better. I swear to god I saw Sansa roll her eyes at Fenchurch earlier when she joined us on the bed, before going back to her snoozing pose. We have come a *long* way.


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## BrittyBear (Feb 4, 2014)

Thats good to hear xD im glad theyre doing better. Sorry about the litterbox thing, thats never any fun :l

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## timelyexit (Mar 18, 2014)

Yet more updates:

They're both doing fine. Still have the odd shouting match, but they never seem to actually come to blows, except one time they had a minor punch up over who got to sit in the bathroom with me while I was on the loo... Weird animals.

They're both now on hunger strike over the new lovely grain-free 80% meat food. I guess it's nice they agree on something? Oh well. Back to Felix I guess.

Fenchurch is slowly growing out of her habit of sticking things in her mouth, I'd like to think my hiss-training is working but I don't want to flatter myself. Interestingly, I was doing garden stuff the other day with a spray bottle and she took one look at it and was suddenly terrified, so I guess wherever she came from, somebody tried to train her with water spritzing.

One day I will have a pet that's not been emotionally damaged... But that day is not today.


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## BrittyBear (Feb 4, 2014)

Thanks for the update  i'm glad they are getting along better ^_^ must be doing pretty well if they're already ganging up on you on certain things xP hope they continue to get along!

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## Jenny bf (Jul 13, 2013)

It's good to hear the update an so pleased it's going well. The bathroom story made me laugh. We have this every morning in our house and both race to get in and grab the best spot. Privacy a thing of the past. For the food, have you tried putting a bit of the Felix on top or mixed into the good stuff to wean them off the Felix? I have to use kibble sometimes to get some flavours down when we are going through the " I had this flavour last week! Why would I want it this week?" phase.


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## timelyexit (Mar 18, 2014)

Yeah, I tried putting the Felix on top - they just picked off all the felix and left the other stuff. I tried mushing it all together (lovely... not) and they licked up all the jelly bits and then left the rest. Tried to stick it out and hope they'd get over it, but it's been three weeks and they're stubbornly refusing it, only taking the odd mouthful when they're desperate.

But hey, at least my local cat rescue is going to benefit from a food donation.


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