# Play fighting or real fighting?



## Malvagia (Dec 9, 2008)

How can I tell if my cats are only playing with each other or really trying to hurt each other? Recently my two spayed 2yr. old cats have been fighting each other more than usual. They bite each other and paw at each other. They were declawed by their previous owner so I don't know if they still had claws if they would be retracted while fighting. One will start hitting the other on her head with her paw until the other attacks. I've also seen one suddenly bite the other on the side while she wasn't looking thereby starting the fight again. They never hiss or make sounds at each other though once I heard one cry out when the other one bit her on the head. That's when I confronted them and yelled stop. They separately and an hour later they were sleeping on the same bed. I also haven't noticed any injuries on them.
I wanted to know when should I intervene? If they're playing I don't want to interrupt their fun and if they're reestablishing heirarchy I assume I should let them solve it on their own. But if they're trying to hurt each other I want them to stop. What should I do?


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

If they were really trying to hurt one another, they wouldn't be lying on the bed together. That said, sometimes they do get too rough with one another, I have the same problem and do interfere occasionally, usually with a squirt bottle, just to break them up.


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## RachandNito (Nov 21, 2008)

As long as they are friends, and you don't hear a lot of hissing and growling, then I don't think they would hurt each other.

All four of my cats wrestle. The only one who ever makes more noise that the occasional meow or grunt is Rusty, who is known to be a yowler. I used to separate them when Rusty cried, but after observing the wrestling matches, it became clear to me that Rusty is just a drama king, and he never actually got hurt. It was more of a shock factor, meant to startle the other cat and give him the upper hand. The cheater! 

Their wrestling can get really escalated, and I've even seen the "loser" hiss at the end before running away. But they have never hurt each other, never broken skin, never been limping or anything. And they are back to loving each other within minutes


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## petspy (Sep 11, 2008)

my 2 littermates are going through the same "terrible 2's" as your active teenage cats. I'm delighted they actively wrestle with each other, since indoor only cats have so little opportunity for exercise, and I don't worry about it a bit. considering your cats are declawed, they may actually wrestle more than usual, since they hardly feel anything from each other. when I adopted my already 2yo cats, they had needle sharp claws that I have patiently been able to dull over the past few Months, so now my cats wrestle more than ever! 

you may notice your cats maintain the same sleep/active cycles so they can play when the other is most receptive. so I really would not be concerned unless one cat initiates wrestling twice as much as the other, and you believe the target cat is not receptive. usually cats give off clear signals to each other, and simply walk away, but if one cat is particularly persistent, while the other is too submissive, you may need to give him a time out or distract him with other interactive play. sometimes when I come home from work, one cat is very playful while the other is still sleepy, so I spend some quality time with the playful one so he does not harass the still sleepy one too much.

my latest gimmick for doing this, is I recently purchased a long 16" sleeve welder's glove which protects all the way up to your elbow. _What's great about welders gloves is the cat can't get his claws caught in any fabric loops like they will against ordinary winter gloves - not a problem for declawed cats._ I can now use my hand and forearm to wrestle with my cat while he bites and scratches the glove without harming me one bit. since your cats are declawed, you can do this with any winter glove and long sleeve jacket instead of wasting $15 on welders gloves. if you try this, keep in mind to never pursue, pin or restrict the cats movements, so if he comes back for more play fighting, fine, if he walks away, then he's had enough and will not bother the other cat either. I'll probably post my own video of me glove wrestling my cat soon, but in the meantime;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfNQF9INy3s

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0318256402

if your cat manages to bite through a regular winter glove,
you should irrigate and clean any tooth marks on your skin immediately
since the cat transmits a lot of bacteria that can irritate your skin for
many days to follow. generally a playful cat will nip or gnaw at the glove,
so if he actually tries to bite down really deep - it's not a playful act,
and you should stop play fighting with him at least for the time being.

since using the glove, my cats are not any more aggressive with me
when I pet them normally - while gloveless - so they seem to get it, 
that the glove means they can be rougher than usual with my hands.
one way I help condition this, is to wrestle with them where I don't
pet them, such as while sitting on bare wood flooring, conversely, I'll
never use my glove while sitting on the couch. the other distinction
is I'll keep palming them after they nip me with the glove on, but when
I'm on the couch gloveless, I stop petting them if they love bit me,
as a clear signal it's an action that is not welcome here and now.


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## greenighs (May 1, 2008)

I've seen cats fight. When two cats are really fighting, you can't separate them without getting shredded. You need falconer's gloves or a bucket of water to break it up. Their eyes get huge, pupils dilated, ears flattened back, and their fur stands on end. They hiss and growl and howl really loud. It's terrifying!


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## doublemom (Feb 17, 2008)

Oh my goodness, we have at least 4 or 5 wrestling matches a day at our house between Jet and Monkey, both neutered boys with full claws. They have wrestled since the first day they were together, and have done it every day for the last three years. Every once in a while one will yowl if they bite a bit too hard, but they truly love to play and pounce on each other, pinning each other to the ground and then separating, then rolling around on the floor asking to be pounced on again. I can't imagine my two boys NOT playing together like that, they love it. 

On another note... Jet has had surgery twice to clean out and drain abscesses. The only way we can figure out how he got this is from play biting while wrestling. Monkey and Jet are together all the time, eat off the same plate, sleep together, play together, groom each other daily, and wrestle together several times a day. If we see it getting a bit rough, we break it up with a water bottle, but otherwise we just let them have their fun. 

Andi


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## marie73 (Jul 12, 2006)

My little twins wrestle and sneak attack each other every day, several times a day. And they're little ladies! 8O Sometimes it looks like they're really going at it, but they are completely soundless. Kinda weird, actually......


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

It should be pointed out that while Petspy believes his cats are getting the distinction that the glove means it's acceptable to bite and claw his hands and bare skin is not, not all cats will and it is highly recommended not to use your hand as a cat toy. Once started, it could be difficult to break this this behavior, so if your cat never 'gets it' you could end up creating undesirable behavior where there wasn't any before.


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## petspy (Sep 11, 2008)

doodle - I have to concede you are right with this one.

the glove use only wears the cat out more, so I can't
be sure if the reduced nipping on bare skin is because
I wore him out, or because he's making a "distinction".

I still get best results by simply pulling my bare skin
hand away whenever my cat gets nippy. after only
20 seconds of ignoring him, he calms down enough so
I can pet him again without incident.

however, do keep in mind that a welders glove is a big
bulky thing, that to a cat, may not resemble a hand,
so it's almost like shoving a stuffed animal at your cat,
that just happens to have your hand up it's butt, so it's
more like a hand puppet than a hand facsimile.


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## doodlebug (May 13, 2006)

petspy said:


> doodle - I have to concede you are right with this one.


Just this one? :lol: 




petspy said:


> I still get best results by simply pulling my bare skin
> hand away whenever my cat gets nippy.


It's actually recommended that when a cat bites that you push your hand towards them. It surprises them, they don't like it and they're more likely to just let go. Pulling your hands away causes the cat to clamp down harder and skin is more likely to be punctured or tear.


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## petspy (Sep 11, 2008)

so push into the mouth when they nip, not away.
sounds like I'm risking deeper tooth penetration,
but I'll give it a try and report back. it's kind of
hard to fight one's own "fight or flight" response,
so it will take a little human reaction reprogramming.

doodle - I eventually agree with your wisdom,
I just do a lot of kicking and screaming while
trying to absorb it all :wink:
I'm a skeptic by nature, 
which serves my purposes more often than not.


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## bluemilk (Oct 3, 2005)

When cats play-fight, you'd swear they were trying to kill each other. You have to look closely. If they're pushing,rasslin,and swatting,that's probably play. In actual kitty combat, they SINK IN their teeth. Play-fighting is an important part of their development,so let 'em scrap-within boundaries. Sometimes,when one cat finds another in proximity,the 'fight' response takes hold. Then when they realize there's no need to fight,they STOP. :idea: Ya think they're ON to something?


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